Business of Home Podcast

The Thursday Show: Billy Cotton on His Latest Collaboration. Plus: The Rise of the Togo Sofa

Hosted by Dennis Scully with Caitlin Peterson

Date: November 6, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of the Business of Home Podcast covers a variety of timely topics for the design community. Host Dennis Scully and editor-in-chief Caitlin Peterson discuss the design industry’s economic slowdown, evolving housing market trends, the overdue importance of accessible design, and the cult of the Togo sofa. Later, designer Billy Cotton joins to unpack the unprecedented reach of his recent projects, his new architectural partnership, and his much-anticipated product collaboration with Soane. The show weaves industry insight, personal experience, and candid debate, with a mix of data, humor, and honest takes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Weathering a Slowdown in the Design Industry

(Start: 06:20)

• Industry Concerns:

  • Designers are increasingly worried about a slowdown, with many asking, “How do I build my pipeline? How do I let people know I’m open for work without sounding desperate?”
  • 75% of recent listener questions revolved around pipeline dryness and business generation.

• Advice from Business Coaches:

  • Cash Reserves: “You should have a cash reserve, right? ... Sandra Funk said, Look, 18 months in reserve is actually really the dream.” (B, 08:07)
  • Stay Focused on Ideal Clients: Rather than lowering fees or chasing unsuitable clients, coaches suggest, “Keep that ideal client that you’ve carved out for yourself and just look at ways to serve them differently.” (B, 08:30)
  • Tighten Operations: “Do a software audit” (B, 10:14), and use the lull to improve systems, automate tasks, and ensure profitability.

• Adopting New Technologies:

  • Caitlin reflected on integrating AI into her own workflow: “Turns out it has a really big learning curve... Slowdown is a really great time to play with something like that.” (B, 11:09)

2. The Housing Market Stalls—Implications for Design

(Start: 12:52)

• Current State: Despite mortgage rate cuts to the lowest since 2022, the housing market is “stalled,” impacting client confidence.
• First-Time Buyer Shift: “The median age of the first time homebuyer... [has] risen to a record high of now 40 years of age versus 29 when they first started tracking.” (A, 13:50)
  • Implication: This delays furnishings and renovation spending.
• Cancellations & Adjustable Rate Mortgages: “15% of home purchases were canceled in the month of September...” and increasing use of adjustable rate mortgages harken back to the ’08 crisis. (A, 14:28)

3. Accessible & Aging-in-Place Design

(Start: 20:51)

• Industry Neglect: While “75% of adults who are 50 or older want to stay in their current home as they age,” fewer than 4% of homes have basic features for it. (A, 21:42; B, 22:08)
• Designer Challenge & Opportunity:
  • There’s little attractive, non-“hospital” feeling product on the market. “I feel like I’m not getting pitched on sexy grab bars and easier to get out of bathtubs.” (A, 22:25)
  • Thoughtful product selection—not just specialty products—can make homes accessible.
• Personal Stories: Designers and clients often face these issues with their own families, begging for better-designed, uplifting solutions.

4. The Enduring (and Polarizing) Allure of the Togo Sofa

(Start: 25:16)

• Togo Sofa Love: The Togo is celebrated for its versatility and comfort; some designers, like Summer Thornton, rave about it as “just such a classic design.” (A, 26:22)
• Polarized Opinion: Caitlin admits, “That blows my mind. I hate this sofa, but wow.” (B, 25:52) She explored internet forums (Reddit and TikTok) and found kindred spirits.
  • Comfort and breaking free from mid-century modern are cited as pluses, but others find it impractical.
• Social Function & Accessibility: The Togo’s extreme low profile is noted as problematic for anyone with mobility issues, tying back to accessibility.
• Trend Questions: Even the latest “It sofas” have an expiration date as overexposure wears on designers and clients alike.

Featured Interview: Billy Cotton

Introduction & Viral Success

(Start: 34:06)

• Viral AD House Tour: Lily Allen & David Harbour’s townhouse, designed by Billy, became a sensation with 8.5M+ video views and a shout-out in Allen’s album.
• Billy’s Reaction:
  "I'm super proud of the work we did together... Wild that it continues to resonate... I was sort of [surprised] with everybody in the universe as this all happened." (C, 34:47, 35:16)
• Impact:
  • Exposure to a global audience has driven dialogue about craftsmanship and the value of unique, less-commercial design. “People were engaging in a dialogue about design... and seeing craftsmanship.” (C, 36:32)

Rising Costs & Industry Shifts

(Start: 38:10)

• Cost Increases: Construction costs up ~30% since COVID.
• Challenge: “We do not have this type of [skilled trades] education and apprenticeship ... it has made the matrix of how we produce things of quality ... a greater challenge.” (C, 39:08)
• Designer’s Role: Designers must be upfront with clients, constantly recalibrating costs and expectations.

New Ventures: CTK & Collaborative Practice

(Start: 41:54)

• CTK: Billy co-founded architecture and project management firm CTK with Ilya Korolev and Jorg Chun.
  • Intent: “To create a standalone company that can work in concert with Billy Cotton but that also is... architecture in its own right.” (C, 44:05)
  • Not Always Intertwined: The firms sometimes operate separately or together for flexibility.
  • Advice for Designers:
    • “Depends on your bandwidth for, for challenge...” (C, 45:29)
    • Managing two firms is “complex,” but enhances collaboration and project intelligence.

Signature Style? Or Not

(Start: 56:25)

• Multiplicity Over Signature:
  • “I do not shy away from all of these different facets of the world of design and decoration ... the things that I like to design are ... quiet ... there’s a great depth, and often you have to look closer.” (C, 52:49, 56:48)
  • Clients rarely want a repeat—sometimes they don’t even like his previous work but seek his mind and process.

New Product Collaboration with Soane

(Start: 47:07, 50:08)

• Collaboration Excitement:
  • Billy views Soane as “the Everest” of craftsmanship.
  • “There’s no limits on your dream ... you just don’t have the same limitations” in the collaboration as compared to mass retail. (C, 50:34)
• Process & Philosophy: Billy and Soane’s team pursued “an open runway of what could happen from a design standpoint.”
• Level of Craft: Details like a chair’s frame made entirely of hand-stitched leather (“the queen’s ex-saddler, like stitching these leather pieces”) are emphasized as evidence of ultra-high-level craft. (C, 52:49)
• Personal Fulfillment:
  • “The things that I've always wanted to make are actually relatively quiet... the things that I like to design are [quiet].” (C, 52:49)
  • “I want to have a longer conversation. I want to have a deeper dialogue.” (C, 56:48)

On AI & Design Homogenization

(Start: 60:20)

• Homogenous Trends:
  • “It’s so interesting ... how much of the work today seems to be narrowing and looking so similar. Right. And whether that’s the algorithms or whether it’s that we’re all seeing those same pieces...” (A, 60:25)
• Billy’s Take:
  • “We are always going to be in a place of creative challenge and thinking about how we evolve. So it’s… more like, okay, that exists, so now this is a sort of new... reality and how do we work within that framework?” (C, 61:07)

Giving Back & The Next Generation

(End: 63:26)

• Billy’s passionate about education and mentorship:
  • “It’s really one of my big passions and I hope that the more that I develop in this business, I’m able to give back back in that world.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Caitlin on clear-sighted business advice:

  “Resist the impulse to chase work that hasn’t up to this point been right for you.” (B, 08:30)

• On viral exposure:

  "It was a different scale of reaction and engagement about it, which I thought was so wonderful that people were engaging in a dialogue about design..." (C, 36:32)

• Billy on artisan/craft education and cost:

  “Apprenticeship has moved into a very specialty category into, what we would say is like a luxury thing. ... It has made the matrix of how we produce things of quality... a greater challenge.” (C, 39:08)

• Billy on “signature look”:

  “We've long left. That has been left behind. But I do hope that that is the signature ... requiring the second look.” (C, 57:47)

• On product design freedom with Soane:

  “There’s no limits on your dream, like when you are working for a more a company that is servicing millions of people and working on a retail level. ... [It’s] just a really open runway of what could happen from a design standpoint.” (C, 50:34)

• Togo sofa as pandemic icon:

  “I feel like the Togo is actually very designed to have you like slouch into it on your own and curve your spine so that you're looking at your phone. And I wonder if that is what makes it the perfect pandemic [sofa].” (B, 29:28)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 06:20 – How designers are coping with a slow pipeline/mindful business practices
• 12:52 – Housing market stall & impacts on design
• 20:51 – Accessible design and aging in place: urgent yet overlooked opportunity
• 25:16 – The Togo sofa debate: popularity, critique, and what’s next
• 34:06 – Interview with Billy Cotton: viral AD tour, exposure, and professional evolution
• 38:10 – Construction costs, craftsmanship, and designer-client budgeting
• 41:54 – Formation and philosophy of CTK architecture/project firm
• 47:07 – Product design with Soane: freedom, craftsmanship, and joy
• 56:25 – Billy’s philosophy: multiplicity over signature, embracing depth and complexity
• 60:20 – Design homogenization, AI, and nurturing future talent

Final Thoughts—Industry Items of Note

• Caitlin is collecting candid designer opinions on manufacturer relationships for a major industry presentation.
• Dennis is watching First Dibs’ markets and the Supreme Court’s review of Trump-era tariffs, which may affect costs for the whole industry.

Summary Takeaway

This episode blends practical advice for designers navigating headwinds, a lively look at “It sofas” in design culture, and Billy Cotton’s compelling perspective on adapting, collaborating, and staying true to nuanced, craft-driven creativity. Through it all, the importance of adaptability, continual learning (from AI to artisan craft), and valuing both quiet and bold design contributions shine through.

For designers, the recurring messages are:

• Stay true to your business’s identity—don’t lower standards out of fear.
• Now is the time to refine your processes, whether with technology or more meaningful client conversations.
• There’s business—and joy—waiting in addressing accessibility with both innovation and compassion.
• Great design, whether in a viral video or a bespoke chair, comes from engaged collaboration and continuous reinvention, even (or especially) when it bucks the trends.

“The things that I've always wanted to make are actually relatively quiet... the things that I like to design are [quiet].”
—Billy Cotton, 52:49