← Business of Home Podcast
Business of Home Podcast
The Thursday Show: Design Week dispatches from Paris and London. Plus: A robot might be making your next sofa
01:10:56
Host Dennis Scully and BOH editor in chief Kaitlin Petersen discuss the biggest news in the design world. Later, Lauren Hudson, Claire German and Charlotte Roberts join the show to talk about Design Destination London.
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- [00:08]
A
This is Business of Home. I'm Dennis Scully and welcome to the Thursday Show. Later on, I'll be speaking to the team behind Design Destination London. But first, we're going to catch up on the news, including the latest on tariffs, highlights from design events in Paris and London, and might a robot be making your next sofa? To do all that, I'm joined by Business of Home's editor in chief, Kaitlyn Peterson. Hi, Kaitlin.
- [00:34]
B
Hi, Dennis. We've had some pretty fun adventures together this past week. I'm excited to tell everyone what we've been up to.
- [00:41]
A
That's right. And we are. We are. First of all, we're together in person, which is wild. Wild. We've been. We've been spending a lot of time with each other, and here we are in London in probably the most amazing recording studio ever. Right.
- [00:58]
B
We are in Lauren Hessen's cozy London flat.
- [01:01]
C
In.
- [01:02]
B
It is beautiful. This just takes the cake for maybe the most beautiful podcast recording I've ever done. I don't know about you.
- [01:10]
A
The Wells Abbott apartment is just where I want to be doing all of our shows from now on. It's extremely special and what a gift. So we thank Lauren for this and we're thrilled to be here.
- [01:24]
B
Let's take a quick moment to look back on Monday's show. You had a terrific interview with Serena Dugan that explores the rise of Serena and Lilly and her exit from the brand, but also kind of how she learned from those experiences and how that's really informed the way she wants to move forward with her own textile line. What struck you the most?
- [01:46]
A
Such a great conversation. I'm such a fan, as I know you are as well. It was an amazing story of how do you pour your heart and soul into building something and then how do you rediscover who you are after? You still step away and find the next thing to your point with everything that you learned from the experience about.
- [02:10]
B
What you don't want too.
- [02:12]
A
Exactly, exactly. And what you're all about and where you want to be going in the future. If you've ever wondered what it's like to take investor money and how it can change things, there's that it's hearing from a passionate artist who wants that art and creativity to lead, even though, of course, she becomes extremely savvy about every aspect of business and merchandising, but really wants the art and the creativity and the soul to lead. So there's a lot in there. It's a great conversation. Many people have written to me about how much they enjoyed it. If you haven't listened to it yet, I hope you enjoy it. All right, we're going to take a quick break and then we'll get into the news. This podcast is sponsored by laloy. Behind every Laloy rug is a web of people woven together. What began as a small family business in Dallas, Texas, in 2004 has grown to a family of over 750 employees who help bring their rugs, pillows and wall art to life. Their work is inspired by the quiet conviction that things made well have the power to provide comfort for generations. Learn more@leloyrugs.com that's L O L O I rugs.com and follow Laloyloi Rugs on Instagram and TikTok. And we're back. Caitlin. Even when we come all the way over to London, we can't escape talking about tariffs.
- [03:57]
B
Over the weekend, President Trump threatened to impose new tariffs on several NATO allies unless they allow the US to acquire Greenland. I know I've gotten an earful from our European friends in the industry as this news unfolded this weekend, and I am sure you have, too. Dennis, what's the mood on the street been like for you with this one?
- [04:20]
A
Well, whether I'm getting scolded by London, CABB or designers, just wondering, what does all of this mean? This somehow feels far more dramatic than anything else that we've been dealing with. And here we are here in London where European leaders are trying to figure out what all of this means.
- [04:44]
B
Just stepping back for a second. You know the fine print on this, Trump said that starting on February 1, the US will impose a 10% levy on any and all goods from eight Europe European countries, that's Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden and the United Kingdom. Those levies will then increase to 25% on June 1st. So, you know, in the, in the scope of, you know, kind of the tariff conversations we've been having for the past year, these are pretty significant numbers. And I certainly feel especially being here in London and the British brands we've talked to, this is really caught them by surprise and really has them rethinking their go to market strategy for 2026.
- [05:30]
A
Yeah, I mean, it's so challenging because we spent all of last year talking about how brands have reacted to the tariff story and have many have had to raise prices often more than once. And many manufacturers have said to me already I just raised prices and now suddenly this threatens to take half of that away from me again. I can't face another. But this does seem really serious. And here you and I are being shown all of this incredible product from Paris and London. And these areas are going to be especially hard hit if in fact this all comes to fruition. We'll have to see.
- [06:09]
B
We were talking on the end of your show just a month ago about how after a really tumultuous year, things seemed a little bit settled. Right. That there was sort of this sense that we have overcome the challenges of tariffs. We know what this is, and even if it's not ideal, we've got a handle on how to move forward with this. And to have an announcement like this one really kind of upset the apple cart so early in the year, I think is also just a really stark reminder that nothing is settled, nothing is certain, and brands are going to be doing this dance for the year and years to come.
- [06:49]
A
Well, exactly. And I think we saw the market mercifully, in a way. The US Markets were actually closed on Monday for the Martin Luther King holiday, so they couldn't immediately respond. When they did, the market fell by a couple of percentage point on the S and P. Not a major sell off, but it was enough to show that the market was concerned. Now it looks as if the market is rebounding a little bit. We're getting some news from Davos that the the president has toned down some of his rhetoric regarding how aggressive the administration might be about Greenland in terms of militarily. But what we're seeing is just a different flavor to this anxiety. And so that's what we'll have to wait and see how this all shakes out. And the hope is that this quickly gets resolved and that we don't have additional tariffs at this point because there's just been so much uncertainty. But to your point, this is probably the next three years of this administration where things just seem to change all the time.
- [07:58]
B
It'll be interesting to see what that requires of brands and what that requires of designers. There are so many people who are here for the first time or the second time, taking in all of this new product, bringing all these samples home. You know, I talked to a couple people on the street here in London who said, you know, I came here because my business and my clients were finally ready. You know, I finally got to a place where I could really meaningfully source from these great European brands. Am I about to be kind of priced out again? And it'll be interesting to see how that impacts their work as well.
- [08:31]
A
Well, exactly, and that's such a great point. As we wrap up this part of the conversation this. This notion that so many of these brands are eager to come to America in a meaningful way and they don't want to be too expensive for so many of these designers and their. And their projects. And so the. The tariff challenge is. Is a real one, is so important to the French brands, to the British brands, and everyone here is eager to make America their top market. So there's a lot riding on this, and everyone is hoping, as I say, this gets resolved quickly. Hey, speaking of Paris and London, Caitlin, between Deco off and design destination London, it's been a busy few weeks for jet setting designers and for us. So where should we even begin with the myriad things that you have, I have seen and done?
- [09:27]
B
Well, I touched down in Paris about a week and a half ago. I got here a little early, and we led some great field trips for our BoH Insider members. So we found that a really fun way to kick off, you know, a couple days of appointments, a couple days of discovering new product, is actually to do a really immersive, deep dive into French craft. So I took a group of designers to, you know, to see a decorative painter's workshop, you know, a gilding atelier, a 270-year-old passementary factory, and it really set the tone nicely for a great trip in Paris. Dennis, what makes seeing these new debuts in Paris so special for you? Because I think it feels different. And part of that is just that Paris is great.
- [10:13]
A
But did I mention Paris is a lovely city?
- [10:15]
C
Yeah.
- [10:16]
B
I mean, there's nothing better than running into design friends on the streets of Paris. But there is also something different about the way that these debuts unfold here. What did you see that captured your imagination?
- [10:27]
A
I agree. And you and I are probably going to talk about this. Throughout the show, there's always this conversation with designers about, oh, gee, if I can see these collections in my local showroom in just a few weeks, what's the reason to come to Paris? And honestly, the reason to come to Paris is to see so many of the people behind these brands present to you with all of the passion and excitement and the creativity. And for me, it doesn't really get started until Patrick Frey has taken the stage. They took a huge theater and presented to hundreds of designers and vendor partners. And he brought the entire team along on the creative side to help show the product. And Patrick Frey just inspires you and uplifts you. And Fiona, who's running the business in America, just gets you excited about everything that's happening, and that's part of why you come just to experience that uplift and the creativity. And then you run around to all of the different pop ups and activations.
- [11:43]
B
And it's Paris, so many of these. There are a lot of really beautiful installations in permanent showrooms, but so many of them are kind of pop ups, takeovers of galleries. I think we both really loved Liberty's installation.
- [11:57]
C
Fantastic.
- [11:57]
B
Celebrating their 150th anniversary. But when you talk about just great merchandising, but also a really thoughtful, inventive way to do an archive dive, they did a great job of showing how some of those early 1920s, 30s motifs and patterns had been reinterpreted in a really funky, psychedelic way in the 70s, and how they were kind of reemerging today with nods to their history, but also really with an eye to the future. And all of that wasn't there a week ago. You know, it pops up, it's there. You run your handle on the bullion fringe of the big curtains and then it's gonna be gone. It's all packed up at the end of the week. And there's something so breathtaking about how temporary it is and also how immersive it can be.
- [12:45]
A
Well, and I think you and I were talking just before we started recording. What I think Liberty did so well to your point, is they showed you how important they were at various moments in time and the role that that brand was playing in terms. In terms of the style, in terms of the fashion leaders of the time and how fashion and design was woven through their history so beautifully. And then how do you pull that forward? All these heritage brands have the challenge of saying, how are we relevant today? And they really showed you how. So that was brilliant.
- [13:24]
B
What else did you love?
- [13:25]
A
So Day Roll, which is this amazing taxidermy shop in Paris, if you've never been, it's just all of these incredible wild animals and creatures that are just displayed around the shop. And Brian Dicker from Holland and Sherry loves that whole look and feel. So he did this great introduction for Bill Peace, the Western Skies collection. And that was such a fun way to introduce it in Paris. So well done. Brian Dicker and Holland and Sherry. That was very fun to see. And what else did you see?
- [14:02]
B
I really loved the new collection for Ralph Lauren Home. They popped up in the St. Germain store there. It was a really neat way to see the fabrics merchandised. I'm all about the merchandising this trip. It was everything you wanted. A blue and white collection from Ralph Lauren to be. There was a tented room of textiles. The pillows were overflowing. The florals made you ready to go on a picnic. And it was just sweet and smart and inspiring in a fun setting with a cup of Ralph's coffee. The experience and the way that they really showcased that collection. And I loved the textiles, but I also. The presentation was pretty incredible. And I was also really delighted by Kendall Wilkinson's pop up for a Testa studio. In addition to the most brilliant pleated metal pendant, which I will be dreaming about for years to come, she popped up at a spa. And so if you were lucky enough to snag a spa appointment, what a great way after pounding the pavement to have 15, 20 minutes to really, truly relax. Our friends at Workshop EPD took over at the Cafe La Charrette. The best croque monsieur I had in Paris. I was so good. I had it two days in a row. But just as sort of an open place for the industry to gather for a meal. The hospitality, the energy was just overflowing and abundant. And I think the mood on the street felt very celebratory, very light. For all of the tariff news unrolling.
- [15:41]
A
In the background, I very much agree. And Rosemary Halgarten, who put out this spectacular mohair curtain outside of the showroom that was absolutely spectacular. And she jokingly reminded everyone that it wasn't actually a performance fabric. So she was hoping that it wouldn't rain, but it just looks so dramatic and fabulous. And her new introductions just reminded you why she's on a whole other level with Boucle. And you know how I feel about all of that. But she is certainly the queen when it comes to all of that. I think the brands who took a Parisian apartment, Pollock, had their fabulous Paris apartment and they did some great presentations. And I thought that Garo and the Clarence house, I mean, his incredible apartment, the lacquered walls, the fabulous presentation, and the most packed party. There were some amazing activations. There were some great parties. It was really spectacular. And hopefully for many, it will remove all doubt as to why you should come to Paris. And then.
- [16:48]
B
Oh, my gosh.
- [16:48]
A
And then we went to lunch at RH Paris. Caitlin. Finally we were together there. What should we say? What should we tell people?
- [16:57]
B
What shouldn't we say? No, I mean, I think I had stopped by the gallery in late September and kind of seen it in action. It was really interesting to see it a little bit more firmly established now and to see how on a Saturday afternoon, the people on the streets of Paris were responding to that space. I Mean, there was a moment while we were having lunch where I had stepped out and there was a line of people trying to get a table, bargaining with the hostess for the opportunity to be seated in this glass atrium and have lunch. You know, there is, I think, no doubt that this is a destination that it is hopping and that it has certainly captured the interest of Parisians and visitors to Paris alike. It's also really different. And, you know, you and I have both been to a lot of RH galleries, and this one certainly feels different. What struck you as we were walking through?
- [18:05]
A
Well, so, as you say, literally turning people away at the door. The restaurant was packed. Everyone is taking pictures of themselves and videos. And then you also spotted some industry executives who were also coming to explore. And that was really interesting as well. It's a different brand presentation. It's very heavy on the hospitality. There are multiple restaurants, including the rooftop restaurant, which isn't open in the wintertime. But we got to go up there. What a view. See the spectacular view of the Eiffel Tower and see all of Paris from the. From the roof of rh. It was less about the furniture. And so some designers who came over thought they were gonna see more of that. And that was interesting. But it was also interesting to see, as I experienced when I first got there, watching people discover the cloud sofa for the first time and seeing the husband and wife disagreeing about what level of comfort they discovered when they found the cloud sofa. And that was really interesting to watch. It was interesting to see people discover that brand for the first time time and what they thought it meant. So it felt very different from RH England, which was a spectacular party that I went to and was great, but I knew that it wasn't going to have nearly the foot traffic afterwards, whereas Paris is apparently their busiest location in the company, suddenly, because everyone is flocking to that location. So we also got a tour of the interior design office, which was really interesting.
- [19:49]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's the. You know, they've got standalone location in Palm Desert, but they've done a really interesting job in Paris of separating the design office. So you can walk through the gallery, you can get a cup of coffee, you can have a glass of wine, you can have a meal in several restaurants, but you can also see furniture, talk to a design consultant, the volume of staff they have walking the showroom floor to really make a connection with you and help you find what you're looking for. And also, I would say, to help you translate what you're seeing into something you could maybe live with was amazing. But part of that experience, if you are, you know, really shopping seriously, is a walk across the courtyard to this kind of glassed in building surrounded by giant hedges. That is the interior design office, you know, and that's where you're going to see the samples. It's also we got a sneak preview of some of the projects they're working on, where they are doing some incredibly sophisticated work. That is you think of retail interior design and you think of people kind of like plunking furniture into a floor plan and now you buy it and great. This is technical. This is immense. It is presented with beautiful videos that walk the client through the experience and the decision making process. It was very eye opening, I would say, to see how that team is using the tools at hand to create solutions for their clients.
- [21:16]
A
Exactly. They had before and after videos that they created to show the client. And it was some drone footage of.
- [21:24]
B
The streets of Paris.
- [21:26]
A
It was pretty spectacular. And also they shared with us because great skepticism around can this brand actually scale furniture down to size. They showed us a very small apartment where a whole series of RH pieces had been in fact brought down to size and how it worked. And so, so it can be done. And that I think will be important for them to share because to many, the perception is it's big furniture. Will this work? That's one of the issues that they face. But what was so clear from Paris was there is huge opportunity for them here and they're only beginning to discover what that is. They're about to open in Milan. They're about to open in London. And this European rollout is coming in a huge way. And you can see why they're so excited about it, because there was nothing but energy in that place. Right.
- [22:26]
B
I asked you this before we started recording, but I'm gonna ask you for everybody else now. Did seeing this space change the way you think about this European expansion? Did it shift something for you? Did it change the way you think about it?
- [22:43]
A
I think that you could be excited or nervous depending on what you wanted to lean into here. So I think there's the temptation to see this location as a laboratory and experiment with, okay, what are people responding to? What is it that they're excited about and what can we lean into in that regard? And I think that Paris is so important to them and you can see why. And as I say, London, Milan, they're going to be informed by what they're learning on the fly in Paris in such a huge way. So this might all become a spectacular success or could just as easily flame out, and it's hard to know, but they are learning so much, and I learned so much that I didn't know. And I'm someone who has been following RH for 20 years. I mean, I learned a great deal. And it was fun that you and I were given the behind the scenes, much of which we can't share because it was all off the record. But there is a lot coming, and we will be talking a lot more about what's next at our age. But it was a really fun experience, and it was especially fun for me to experience it with you. And then we hopped into a car and made our way off to Maison Objet. What? Yes, we did.
- [24:12]
B
Braved the highway traffic. That guy. Drove really fast on the way there. Ran underground, popped back up in front of Maison and Abjet and got to see the incredible collection that Corey Damon Jenkins has brought to Icoults, which was worth all of that time in the car, if you ask me. What did you think of that? Stop, Dennis?
- [24:37]
A
Well, and, you know, you and I had been at the spectacular dinner that I. Colts.
- [24:42]
B
Oh, yes. I mean, God. Had the party of the year the night before.
- [24:46]
A
Wow. So this incredible party at this Rothschild mansion, and it was really spectacular. Only a handful of the lights were on hand, so Caitlin and I had to go to Maison l' Abger so we could see the entire collection and so that we could throw our support behind one of our favorite humans, Corey Damon Jenkins. I know that everyone who knows Corey feels the same way. So, of course you make the trip to Maison obj and Icolts did such an incredible job of building out that stand and the activation and everything else that they were showing. So I think it was a pretty successful launch for all of that, I think.
- [25:29]
B
And for a company with such an impressive global reach, too, it was really interesting. We were there towards the end of the show's run, and to start to hear what was resonating all over the globe, I think was interesting. And also, you know, when you look ahead at what's coming next from that collaboration, I think will really inform how that line continues to evolve. But it was interesting to see, like, oh, this is doing really well in this part of the world. And, you know, folks over here are really, really drawn to this piece. It was neat to see sort of the push pull of that line and how it really is so perfectly tailored for a worldwide audience.
- [26:10]
A
I agree. And I was so glad that you made me go there, Caitlin, because It reminded me.
- [26:16]
B
You said it very kindly before, but let's be clear, I dragged Dennis in.
- [26:21]
A
A taxi, dragged me, dragged me to Maison. But one of the things I was so glad to be reminded of was what a different experience Maison y' Objet and what a different market and voice that Thayer has to deco off and how they both play very distinctive roles for brands in what they want to say and how they say it.
- [26:45]
B
I was really interested. I had sat next to the designer Elisa Grayer at Corey's dinner on the night before and she was headed out to the fair the same day that we went. And she said it was the third year in a row that she had gone. And I think she had a very. I don't want to like blow up her strategy, but she had talked about, you know, going and sort of refining her idea of what she was looking for at the fair with each successive visit. And it was so cool to hear her say that, you know, this year she was ready to go. She knew exactly what she was looking for to bring back to her business. And she had just this sort of targeted focus. And I loved that as a way of thinking about Maison and Objet, which can be. Be so immense, so overwhelming. You know, how do you sort of cut through the noise to understand what's going to be a value add for your business? And it was, it was great to hear someone who really had started so broad and then slowly narrowed in and was able to kind of go with a mission this year that will help her kind of in her, in her business. I also, you know Caroline Biggs, BoH's market editor, she walked the show in earnest, much more seriously than we did. But you know, she talked about a real uptick in handmade makers at this show. She also found a ton of new eco materials. She specifically called out floor and wall tiles made from apples. But I think bigger picture, just finding a lot of brands that are putting sustainability at the forefront, that are putting material innovation at the forefront. And that Maison and Aberge was really a place to be at the cutting edge of what's coming to market that you've never seen before. So I think, you know, all of those things are there to be discovered. And from what I heard, it was a great showing this year at M.
- [28:34]
A
And L. Yeah, to be sure. And then, and then we quickly ran home and packed because we had to be on the Eurostar the very next morning because we were off to London.
- [28:46]
B
Case we are here for design destination London. It's a three day event now. It has grown. That is in its third year. This show started kind of less as a show and more as an experience three years ago for about 100 designers. I don't want to step on your interview too much. You're going to. Dennis is going to give us the full story in the interview later in the show, but. But it's grown in a really significant way that has certainly caught our attention. Last year, they hosted about 250 designers. I came for a day because I'd heard so many people buzzing about it that I kind of wanted to be in the mix and see what it was all about. It was incredible. Dennis and I are here this year to do the whole thing with about 350 designers. You know, it's. Which is tremendous growth when you think about it. Just, this is such a well organized event. It's really all about helping designers discover and connect with British brands in a really intentional way. This show is organized, you know, where there's. There's moments for kind of showroom discovery and shopping, and then there's also these immersive kind of experiences with some of the sponsoring brands. I spent an afternoon walking Savile Row with Holland and Sherry and their kind of fashion side of the company, exploring their history in menswear and tailoring. But I talked to so many designers on that trip about client experience. I know some of the other excursions were much more about process, about the product, and kind of the incredible craft that's happening here. But it really is this cool push pull of just seeing a ton of great stuff and then really having meaningful experiences with some of the brands here. Where did you go and what did you see?
- [30:34]
A
Well, the lovely Mrs. Scully is always frightened that I'm gonna make my way to Savile Row. Caitlin, having had.
- [30:41]
B
I thought of you quite often, yes.
- [30:45]
A
She's forbidden me from even stepping foot over there, but having had a London tailor for many, many years, it is part of the history and heritage of this great city. And I think that, to your point, so much of what designers are experiencing here and have shared with us about has made this trip so magical for them is really immersing themselves in the craft and the history and what is behind these great brands. And to your earlier point, too, I think so often designers get a little confused when they're navigating Paris, as they don't always know where to go. It's not sort of clearly mapped out for them. Start here, go there, Go here. Lauren Hudson, who I wish was running all aspects of my life personally has everything brilliantly schematic. And so you and I got very excited.
- [31:39]
B
Very detailed itineraries.
- [31:40]
A
Very detailed itineraries of where we were going and when. And that made it so much more relaxing. And then you could just bump into people at all of these different activations and events. But everyone was learning about what is behind these brands. And I think, and you and I were talking about this earlier, getting even more excited about the prospect of being able to have a big enough business or big enough clients to be able to specify jam or to be able to specify sewn and who doesn't want to buy some part of Lulu Little's showroom, Of course. And so I think in the same way you and I have talked about how exciting so many of the designers that you've talked to for years were thrilled that they could finally come to Paris. Equally, they dream of having the scale of projects where so many of these Chelsea harbor and Pimlico Road clients can be.
- [32:47]
B
Well, I don't want to scare anyone off with that idea of the detailed itinerary. I will say that it's a detailed itinerary that leaves a lot of room for exploration. But where you're wandering into a showroom that is expecting you. Right. That says like, you know, from 1 to 5 today, we know that lots of Americans who are part of this event will be coming through and we're ready to show them what we're all about. To your point about Paris being sort of an intimidating show, there is sort of an aimlessness, I think sometimes that can we walk this show very differently. I'm seeing a new showroom every 30 minutes to make sure you've seen everyone. But for a normal person walking this show, you know, it is a very like pop in and discover and the way that you find where you're going is somewhat challenging sometimes. Not all of the pop ups are participating officially in Deco off. So there's some signage, but there's some people who are just there and really kind of the anchor. So often of the Deco off experience is the big parties at the end of the night. I feel like what people are talking about is the social scene. And I think there's something really interesting about the experience then of coming here to London, where so much of the focus is really on product education and going home with samples.
- [34:01]
A
Yeah. And I think from a manufacturing standpoint, what's so interesting about Design Destination London is so many people have told me here that they are meeting some of their big clients for the first time. They're walking into their showrooms, they're walking into their shop. And that's part of what is so magical about the scale and the level of designer that are coming here. It's really. And as we talked about earlier, London and Paris, all of those manufacturers are so eager to court Americans. And this is a really powerful way to bring all of those Americans here. And many people are meeting for the first time, and what a way to do it. So in terms of that difference between Paris and London, I mean, I think each. Each has their own unique way of presenting and seeing things. And to your point about events, this feeling of being seen and being part of this. And the American in Paris party, for example, in Paris is still such a huge industry event. And Gina DeWitt and the team from Knedler and everyone involved there puts on this amazing party. Samuel and Sons threw this huge masquerade party that was spectacular. And so there were a lot of wonderful events and ways to be participating in that way. But there are clear differences, I think, between the two.
- [35:36]
B
It's interesting, too. You know, I think the original idea of centering this show in London, sort of after the show in Paris was, you know, you've already flown across the Atlantic, you might as well stay a few days, get on the train, go see these British brands sort of where they're showing the best version of themselves. And it's interesting to talk to designers who have done both. Or actually, a lot of designers here didn't come to Paris this year. They said, oh, like, I'm just gonna do London. Maybe I'll alternate back and forth every year. Maybe. Maybe I'll just do London. Like, I'm kind of trying to figure it out and see. But there is palpably, I think, an interesting calculation that the designers who are here or who are in Paris are doing is they sort of assess their goals for their business, think about what they're looking for, and think about where they need to be. And I don't know that I've ever seen that happen so quickly in the industry before. For this to become such a mainstay of your travel calendar.
- [36:38]
A
I completely agree. And I think that in much the same way that there's going to be a lot of discussion about where does this event go next and how do they add onto this. I think a lot of American designers are going to be having the discussion about Paris versus London. Can I do both? Can I rotate? Where do I go? How do I think about it? There's a lot going to come out of this. It's Definitely worth watching. And I'm sure we'll be talking about it a lot more in the future, because also, it sounds like some changes are coming. I'll tease that in a little bit. But in the meantime, we've got to move on. Caitlin, because. Wait a second.
- [37:10]
C
Do we have to.
- [37:11]
A
We're going to talk about robots. Caitlin.
- [37:13]
B
Oh, Paris, London. Robots. So there's a new startup called Cathedral that aims to revolutionize furniture manufacturing by introducing robotics into the upholstery process. Caroline Burke wrote a great piece for the site this week that explores how the company is piloting their invention with a manufacturing partner in North Carolina. Dennis, I have a very serious question for you. Do you think High Point is ready for robots?
- [37:38]
A
I think that many people would like to have robots stationed at their showroom. Right. So they can be. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think we're back here in America now we're talking High Point, and I think robots could solve a lot of challenges for High Point. But let's tell people exactly what we're talking about and what this story was that Caroline wrote.
- [38:04]
B
Absolutely. So Cathedral has two co founders who have a really interesting history, both kind of in the arts world, but also in entrepreneurship and business school. They came together and partnered with a High Point manufacturer who gave them $235,000 to develop and integrate this tool into the factory. They also had a history with AI, and we're kind of experimenting with how that can amplify what's happening on the manufacturing floor. So right now, this mystery manufacturing partner is as yet unnamed, but also kind of where in the production process this robot is doing the work is yet to be kind of specified. But what we do know is that there is a robot sort of plugged into a certain part of the manufacturing process. And the idea is really to assist with the work, you know, kind of before you get to the fabric stage, is the way they described it. And they have a very expansionary mindset. You know, they're in one factory right now, but they're very open about their plans to target, you know, about 100 manufacturers in North Carolina in the market, and then domestic manufacturers across the country. You know, they really are kind of on the move and seem ready to jump right into a manufacturing floor near you.
- [39:27]
A
Yes. Well, while it's impossible to imagine them actually upholstering furniture with robots, it is easy to see you. You look at the integration at Amazon, you look at the integration at Tesla. Even for those who aren't familiar with Intuitive Surgical, the company that helps surgeons make more delicate incisions. All of those other companies can help you understand the way that robotics might be able to help the upholstery business quite a bit. We know there have been labor shortages. We know that there have been so many challenges in hiring, in training, in teaching. This sounds like it could be a way to be a support mechanism for a lot of the people who just would love an extra helping hand. Even if it's a robotic arm. Perhaps. We'll see. But this sounds intriguing and I'm hoping to get the founders on the show so that we can talk about it more. But it's interesting and another reminder that you think Kai Point's not keeping up with innovation. But here we go, right?
- [40:34]
B
I mean, we first started talking about this and it is a little like the robots are coming, but it also does speak to so many conversations we've had at BOH on this show included, you know, about how desperate in so many ways North Carolina manufacturers are for the skilled labor to really protect the operations that they have there. You know, this is not a new problem. And we've just spent the last week in Europe really celebrating, you know, French craft, British craft. But, you know, on my field trips in Paris, one thing that was very evident was how deeply supported French craft is by the French government to sustain those skill sets. Certainly in the US we have sort of different constraints. And so I've been thinking a lot since I read this piece about how robots might be a really interesting answer, a really interesting helping hand to support the people who are doing such skilled, detailed work and to really funnel folks who are interested in those career paths towards the higher skilled parts of those jobs and to let robots do some of the heavy lifting the rest of the way. I think it's really interesting. I can't wait to see it in action, to be honest.
- [41:47]
A
I know Caitlin and I are wondering when we're getting the tour of the facility that's using it. I think, listen, robotics are an inevitable transition in the same way that manufacturing process was so changed by CNC machines or just how technology evolves. So of course robotics are going to show up in a meaningful way and I hope in a helpful and constructive way. And it will be fascinating to see where it goes. And as I say, I hope we'll be talking to the founders of this company and learning more, but also actually going to see it when we get to high points. So stay tuned, we'll talk about that more in the future. Now we're going to take a little look back. We're going to get nostalgia for a moment because over the past few weeks, the Internet was awash in nostalgia for 2016. Yeah, you've all been posting your pictures of you in 2016. So interestingly, for El Decor, Julia Cancella explored what this might mean for interiors. And I guess my question for you, Caitlin, is why is this a thing? What's going on?
- [42:57]
B
I think what was interesting about out this article is that, you know, it's a great response to this flood of content on social media. Looking back at 2016, and I thought that the, you know, Julia did a really interesting job of looking back both at where interiors were in 2016, but also kind of where we as an industry were in 2016. And very specifically, I thought it was interesting, you know, how we showed up on social media in 2016. I think that to me, was sort of one of the most delightful takeaways of this article, was sort of a yearning for a more carefree approach to posting. And it was interesting, you know, Nathan Turner is in the article really talking about how that social media as a form of expression within the interiors industry was so much less taxing, so much less exhausting, so much more kind of exhilarating. And I thought that was sort of a fun, nuanced take in the sort of. It was interesting to see where we were then. I've spent a lot of time thinking about where I was then. But where were you, Dennis, in 2016?
- [44:04]
A
So, funny enough, here I was working in the D and D building. My office was in the D and D building. I was the president of Avery Boardman. I had this huge showroom and making custom furniture. And it was such a different time. And it was still a time where we were so early on in how brands were presenting themselves on social media.
- [44:30]
B
And on the Internet in general.
- [44:31]
A
Exactly. We were so much less sophisticated than we are now. We were so naive. And in a way, to your point, we were also, I think, so much less constrained, or we were so much less in our own heads about everything, and everything wasn't needing to be as perfect as it seems to be right now. So it's sort of funny for me to look back and think of very much being immersed in both making furniture, being on the brand side, and now sort of talking about design centers and talking about the industry in the way that I get to now. It's really been sort of a miraculous transition. You too, had a very different insight into the world of design at the time. Where were you back in 2016?
- [45:20]
B
So, funny enough, I was Reading this article on Eldecor and was like, wow, these images look so familiar. Oh, I was at Elle Decor House beautiful in Veranda, and I wrote the captions for that story. So anyway, I was there. I was collecting all the credit sheets, writing all the captions, working with the features editor on those stories. And so that was just a fun trip down memory lane for me. But also, I mean, the world of media and making a magazine was so different, different in 2016. And so I've been thinking a lot about that after reading this article. I don't really know how to put that into an Instagram post. Where were we? Well, SEO didn't dominate everything. We still weren't sure what to do with our websites. How did digital and print connect? You know, I think so many of those things that feel settled for better or worse now were still open questions at the time. And it really was sort of the wild west of navigating how digital media was going to sit comfortably or uncomfortably next to traditional print media. 2016, to me, feels like such an inflection point for how media companies, especially with shelter media publications, were thinking about the role of the Internet in their businesses. So that's a fun trip down memory lane, too.
- [46:41]
A
Yeah. No, and Listen, this whole 2016 moment seems to be so, so much about, oh, the world was so much simpler then, and we were all so much happier then. Were we? I'm not sure, but it certainly did seem simpler. It's fun to have this opportunity to look back, but I think, as you and I have talked about, what is remarkable about this past year is that even with all of the challenges that have come since 2016, how this business has continued to thrive despite everything being thrown at it. So fun to get nostalgic and look back, but I think everyone instead needs to be looking forward and saying, you know what? We got a lot we got to get through. And where is technology? Where is media going to take us next? And what is it going to mean for the industry? But fun to look back. Don't spend too much time, though, looking back, kids, because we gotta.
- [47:43]
B
Right, we gotta keep it moving.
- [47:45]
A
We gotta keep it moving. All right, that's it for the news, but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com including a look at the rebuilding efforts in LA one year after the wildfires and how rising costs are impacting project budgets. We'll be back in a minute, but first, a quick break. We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about laloy Vegas market is just around the corner so don't wait another minute minute to make your appointment to stop by the Laloy showroom. It's the best way to experience a personalized tour of everything new from Leloy and their partners including Leanne Ford, Amber Lewis and Bridget Romanik, plus all of their new one of a kind vintage collections. Open a trade account and make an appointment@leloy rugs.com that's L O L O I rugs.com and don't forget to follow laloyloyrugs on Instagram and TikTok. And we're back. We're in London covering the business behind the city's major design hubs and the Design Destination London trade event. Joining me are the founder of Design Destination London, Lauren heads with the wealth.
- [49:08]
C
Companies, Charlotte Roberts, Bruce Gilliam, Pollard Clare.
- [49:10]
D
German Design Centre, Chelsea Harbour.
- [49:12]
A
Fantastic. That's right, three guests are with me today and I'm so excited and I thank you all for being here and making this possible. Lauren, we're going to start off with you because we're here for this wildly excited and brilliantly attended event that you're going to tell us all about. How did Design Destination London even get started?
- [49:34]
E
Well, as all good things do, as a hair brain scheme which is what I've built this business on.
- [49:40]
A
I'm told you love a hair brain scheme.
- [49:42]
E
I love a good hair brain scheme. So it started after Covid we, we went to Deco off and thought about, you know, trying to get involved there and as a showroom we were thinking about ways to connect with our design clients. And I represent a lot of English brands and we'd been going back and forth to Paris to see our English friends pop up in Paris and I couldn't help thinking, you know, wouldn't it be fun to go from Paris over to London and get a little closer to the mothership and have a more direct experience than one would have in a pop up. And so I got some of my brands together who I said, you know, I've got this great idea, let's throw a party and let's have it be several days long and let's do some excursions and we'll invite our clients and maybe 25, 30 will come and wouldn't that be fun? We'll throw some dinners, we'll have some excursions, we'll have some behind the scenes experiences. And so the next year we really, the first year that we did it was 2024, January of 2024 and we had 100 people who said, yeah, we're coming. And I expected most of them to come over from Paris. So we timed it to be right after Deco off. But surprisingly there were some who chose just to come straight to London, which was interesting and fun. And so we had a great time and, and Claire at the Design center and the Pimlico Road were so supportive. And so Claire threw this amazing dinner for our 100 designers at the Design center. And all of a sudden we had this event. And afterwards I got, you know, I got inquiries from designers outside of our territory who wanted to come. And I was like, oh, I don't, I don't know, I need to stay in my lane. But then we started thinking about it. There's a way for it to develop and grow into something different. And so last year really was the year that we, that it became a national event that was not showroom sponsored. And so it was very much, we put together a committee of host brands and the host brands and the underwriters were the, were the, you know, were the party throwers, basically. And that's how the invitation list was made and that's how we've moved. And then last year it was, you know, partnering with Chelsea harbor, partnering with the Grosvenor Estate, and really coming up with a great itinerary and then executing a well organized event that manages time and treasure effectively.
- [52:37]
A
Right. And before I bring it over to Claire and talk about Chelsea harbor and the Design center and all of that, tell me, the invitation list for these designers. How is that determined? Are these sort of top clients?
- [52:50]
E
Yeah, that's such a good question. And a lot of people don't understand how it works. And the way that it works is that the host sponsors who are. We have 17 host sponsors this year. The host sponsors, they submit a list of their top clients, their top buyers. Basically, this is specifically for the trade. So they submit a list of their top designers, their top American clients, clients. We compile that list and then we send out invitations. This year we sent out 2,000 invitations and we had an uptake of 450 before we capped it. And now we have. And of those 450, 350 people have come.
- [53:34]
A
So first come, first serve, you've sent out all the invitations, People responded well.
- [53:39]
E
Yeah, we do have a cap, and the cap is based on, based on how many people we can accommodate on the excursion. So it depends on how many host sponsors we have and how many people they can nicely accommodate and still keep it small. With the objective being we want to make sure we want to foster building relationships between designer and brand.
- [54:04]
A
Everyone's paying their own way, they're flying over here, they're paying for their hotel and then you're providing these incredible excursions and opportunities for them to see things that they would never otherwise get to see. Right.
- [54:16]
E
And doing it in an organized way.
- [54:19]
A
So, Claire, let's come over to you and Lauren comes to you with this whole idea and you are the queen of throwing events and putting things together. You and I have talked, obviously, I mean, what you do at Chelsea Harbor, I'm in awe. So, I mean, tell me how you thought about all of this and how you processed it and what you. Why you wanted to participate.
- [54:42]
D
Well, as you know, I'm always operating on a make new friends basis and, and anyone's welcome at the Design Center. But a. I love the idea because obviously there's a lot of Americans in Paris and it's just a short hop across the Channel and it's actually really easy to then come up with, immerse themselves in, you know, in what's happening in London, whether it's, you know, the Design centre with, at the PIM on the Pimico Road or with the other host sponsors. So, yeah, it sort of made perfect sense. So I said immediately, count me in. And, and I, you know, threw all my energy behind it and I've never looked back.
- [55:25]
A
And, and Charlotte. So for, for more than a decade, I gather you've been luring people to, to Pimlico Road and, and helping them to open up. So let's tell people a little bit about Pimlico Road for people in America who might not be familiar with this incredible area and sort of the business behind it and what you do.
- [55:47]
C
So I work for an external commercial property agency called Bruce Gillingham Pollard and we have basically been working alongside Grosvenor for 10, 12 years now. As I'm sure most of you know, Grosvenor own much of Pimlico Road and that forms part of their wider kind of Belgravia and Mayfair ownership. Generally. Generally. And really our remit is essentially to help them with everything that happens at ground floor level. So whether that in the, in the case of Pimlico Road is a shop or a restaurant or whatever, we work with them to kind of curate a retail strategy and deliver on that well.
- [56:24]
A
And help me understand a little bit better. In my mind, I think of the Los Angeles design scene, for example, where there's a great big design scene where some people want to be, and then there's lots of streets, La CIENEGA and lots of Melrose, lots of areas where showrooms want to open there. And sometimes they go back and forth, they're on the street for a few years and then they go into the design center again. They're like Michael Smith for example, moved his showroom right back into the design center. So tell me, what makes someone think they want to be on Pimlico Road versus somewhere else they could be?
- [56:57]
C
Yeah, I think Grosvenor are fairly specific in terms of terms of the credentials of an operator and if they're a right fit for the street, the credentials being sort of like steeped in sort of craftsmanship, high quality design tradition. We're constantly, always looking at what we kind of under index in, in terms of like interiors generally, whether it's like lighting or furniture. Equally, we are aware that Pimlico Road is a really important, important like residential community hub as well. So it's trying to balance like, it being a kind of like residential place for the Belgravian Pimlico residents and providing amenity to them and what they need and what they want. But equally it being absolutely like globally synonymous with high class design and interiors as well. So it's that balance of needs as well.
- [57:53]
A
So do they. Do people have to make a light fixture in front of you to sort of prove their abilities? I mean, very selective. You really want to be sure? Yeah.
- [58:02]
C
And yeah, we truly are because we're like, you know, we are custodians of a long term estate and we need to make sure that we're curating a community of like light minded operators that share customer base and share the same values and like pr, marketing wise, all work together really, really nicely. And I think like in the main they are the most amazingly talented like group of operators that genuinely work really, really well together together. So yeah, it's a brilliant project.
- [58:32]
E
I think that the combination of the Design center at Chelsea Harbour and Pimlico Road makes London one of the most valuable destinations in the world. And it's the reason that I, that I'm dedicated to bringing, you know, hundreds of American designers here because I think between the Design center at Chelsea harbor and the Pimlico Road, you know, from my own personal aesthetic, those are, that's where I found, find, you know, so much inspiration myself. But I just think it's, it's the, the center of where every designer should.
- [59:07]
D
Be and no, and it's actually we all play nicely together because I think that's really important for the industry as a whole. And I think with Wowhouse for Example, we have a lot of Pimlico Road brands. Right. That are involved in Wowhouse.
- [59:19]
A
Yes.
- [59:20]
D
So it's kind of, you know, it's really nice when everyone gets together now.
- [59:23]
E
A couple years ago, when we were pulling together what is now known as ddl, I said to somebody, wouldn't it be great if we could do this event and have Chelsea harbor and Pimlico Road, like, have them underwrite with us? And the person that I was talking to said, good luck. That's not happening.
- [59:44]
D
It's all new dawn.
- [59:46]
E
And it did happen, and it's great, and it's what makes DDL great. What's going on at the Design center is fabulous. What's going on on Pimlico Road is fabulous. Fabulous. And American designers can only get that here, I think.
- [59:59]
A
Yes.
- [59:59]
C
And the whole community is stronger by working together rather than sort of Lockheeds with one another.
- [60:05]
D
Right?
- [60:06]
A
No, no, that's certainly true. It also seems a moment in time where many of the British brands are very keen to come to America and saying it.
- [60:18]
E
Right.
- [60:18]
A
And are eager to learn more about. About this market called Texas and Atlanta, and many of these markets in America where just business is happening. You've got multiple showrooms in the US And I know the British brands are really looking to make America their top market, and this seems like an important part of that.
- [60:43]
E
Well, the American market's the most important market in the world.
- [60:45]
D
Yeah.
- [60:45]
E
I mean, anybody will tell you that. And it's where the business market is unrivaled.
- [60:50]
D
Yeah.
- [60:51]
E
So it's kind of funny that the Americans are coming to London, you know, for that. For that exposure and that experience.
- [60:57]
D
The designers also want to. To see London and also ultimately like to do more work in London as well. A lot of them say to me, God, my dream is to do the ultimate country house.
- [61:09]
E
Right. Right.
- [61:10]
D
So it's to really get under the skin of the aesthetic and really kind of that sort of go for it. But I know for my tenants, for them to. To, you know, to grow their business, to have a, you know, a business of any, you know, sort of fantastic size, they need to conquer America.
- [61:28]
E
Yeah.
- [61:28]
D
And the ones who have, you know, America counts for 70% of their business.
- [61:34]
B
Yeah.
- [61:34]
D
So, you know, the more I can. I can, you know, bring as many American designers to the Design center, the happier everyone is. And that's obviously why we have American designers in Wowhouse and everything else. So we love to forge close relationships with Americans.
- [61:51]
A
Yes.
- [61:51]
D
So you're all welcome. Right. At any time.
- [61:54]
E
Well, it's the best Shot, you know, as a designer, it's the best shopping experience. But. And you're not, you're not placing your orders, you know, as an American designer, you're not placing your orders through a London showroom.
- [62:03]
D
No.
- [62:03]
E
But, you know, nobody's going to argue with gaining inspiration in London. And then you go back and, and you work with your local showroom to seal the deal.
- [62:14]
D
And it's exposure to an influential audience. Right. And that's what everyone is very enthusiastic about.
- [62:22]
C
And certainly on Pimlico Road as well, our kind of second largest customer demographic is that American audience. And we've kind of like talked quite a lot about should we therefore be bringing in more kind of American brands to Pimlico Road? But, but I think the more we kind of sense, check it with various kind of industry sort of friends and people generally, is that, no, they are coming to London to search out that kind of quintessential British interior brand and therefore they can get all of that at home, so to speak. So, yeah, I think it is important to kind of keep that in mind.
- [62:57]
A
So I've spoken, Lauren, to many people who wish they were participating and weren't. And so both from the designer side and also from the, from the brand side, a lot of brands are just sort of reaching out to me, saying, what, what is this and how do I get involved in this? So, I mean, what does a designer need to do to, to be on that lucky invitation list?
- [63:24]
E
They need to buy the product, they.
- [63:26]
A
Need to become big clients for some of these.
- [63:28]
D
It's an easy.
- [63:29]
E
It's the equation, Dennis.
- [63:31]
C
Yes.
- [63:32]
A
They need to rise up to be a top client for somebody for one of these brands.
- [63:37]
E
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [63:40]
A
Right.
- [63:41]
E
That is, that is it. And, you know, this year was the, you know, we, as I said, we sent out 2,000 invitations. I think we'll probably send more out next year, but I think we'll, we'll always have a cap on how many people can participate. And we want to, we want to keep the invitation recipients. We love a design enthusiast, but that's not who's going to buy a $20,000 lantern, you know, for their client. And so we want to make sure that we're speaking to our client base. You know, that's, that's a bit of a smaller number.
- [64:18]
A
And do you imagine it always piggybacking on Paris Deco Off? Has that made the most sense in terms of at least having a large number of designers sort of already coming over for something or, I mean, if.
- [64:30]
E
It ain't broke Don't.
- [64:31]
D
Yes.
- [64:32]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [64:32]
B
No, no.
- [64:33]
D
Yeah. People are really enjoying the, you know, the. The Paris experience. And then the excitement.
- [64:38]
E
Right.
- [64:39]
D
Of coming to London.
- [64:40]
E
Right.
- [64:40]
D
So when I was in Paris last week, everyone so much fun wondering why I was there, because I should have been sort of, you know, setting up the tables.
- [64:47]
E
Right.
- [64:49]
D
Very busy, but also it was like, okay, so Paris and then it's London and can I. The American energy is just off the chart and incredibly contagious. Yeah, they just keep going.
- [65:01]
E
It is. Yeah. And next. Paris is so fun and wild and frenetic and it's a great way to kick it off. And then London's a great way to wrap it up.
- [65:10]
D
Yeah.
- [65:11]
E
You know, if you're doing both, I.
- [65:12]
A
Mean, in thinking about how to present the difference between Paris and London, obviously two very different cities, but I feel like it's a different experience in Paris where you're getting these presentations of the fabric introductions and all of that. But, like, you tell me how you think about the difference between what's on offer here in London, Paris.
- [65:36]
D
It's a fabulous experience and you are lurching from showroom presentation to showroom presentation, drinks and everything else. But what you don't get is that personalized experience, and that's because of the sheer size of it. So it's difficult to compare it because it's very different. So therefore, I think it's a really good balance between that sort of frenetic, fun, sort of, you know, overload of the senses to come and then really fully immerse yourself in London with the.
- [66:05]
E
House in a different way.
- [66:06]
A
Claire, you mentioned wow House earlier.
- [66:09]
D
I managed to squeeze it in a couple of times.
- [66:11]
A
Shall we give it. Shall we give a tease and a little bit of a. Let's remind people what wow House is because it's yet another reason to come back to London.
- [66:19]
E
It is.
- [66:20]
D
I know. It's like you'll be magnets.
- [66:23]
E
Yeah.
- [66:24]
D
No, wow House is our show house in June and it opens to the public on the 2nd of June, and it's celebrating the very best of international design. And it is the only Longhouse show house purpose built. It's the potted bungalow you will ever see. And it's humbling for the international love it receives. And I can't wait. We've sort of.
- [66:50]
C
Of.
- [66:50]
D
We've done a teaser. Teaser launch for the. For the lineup for 2026, and it is sensational.
- [66:59]
A
Well, I mean, I think the message is lots of reasons to come to London. The design scene is. Is thriving. Right? Yeah. So When Lauren's ready, she's going to share more details of what's next for design destination London. So stay tuned. Perhaps we'll have you back to update when you've, when you've figured out, you know, what's, what's next. But obviously, Sky's the, and I mean, we talked earlier about the level of enthusiasm. People could not be more excited to be here. I mean, I've been to a whole range of events and people are just thrilled. So congratulations.
- [67:33]
E
So happy to hear to all of you.
- [67:34]
A
Yeah. And thank you so much for making the time.
- [67:36]
E
Thank you for having me. It's an excellent. Thank you for being here.
- [67:39]
A
Such a pleasure. And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here, but before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that, that might have caught our eye. Caitlin, what caught your eye?
- [67:54]
B
Friend of business, of home Past Trade tales Guest New York designer Bella Mancini has rebranded her design firm and it is now Mancini Burns Design. The name change is kind of a reflection of her partnership with a longtime team member, Taryn Burns, who has worked alongside Bella since 2011. And I just love this because maybe as we talked about about in our end of year episode about a month ago, succession has been so on top of everyone's mind. And this just felt like a perfect expression of that, a perfect way to celebrate someone, bring a team member into the spotlight a little bit more. I just thought it was a great model that hopefully offers strength and vitality and longevity for great firms like Bellas.
- [68:39]
A
Couldn't agree more. Bella Mancini and Taryn Burns, two of my favorite humans. I was, thanks to the Pinch showroom here in London. I was dining with Bella Mancini just last night, hugging and celebrating the new name of her firm, Mancini Burns Design. And yeah, it's exciting for all of them. And I, I couldn't be happier for them.
- [69:01]
B
What caught your eye this week, Dennis?
- [69:03]
A
Well, there's a couple of things that seem to be going on, Caitlin. One, there's this, there's this Charles Cohen story. You know, I always love a good Charles Cohen story. So there's a, there's a story out that, that Mr. Cohen is asking for some more time so that he can organize and, and, and get, get the financial house in order. And he's, he's pointed out that the Pacific Design center is especially important to him. And please don't break up that, that building or please don't take my design center way was what it sounded like.
- [69:34]
B
How does his lender feel about that?
- [69:36]
A
Well, I don't think his lender is eager to give him any more time. So I'm, I'm curious as to see what happens next. But it does sound like we'll have more to talk about there soon, so stay tuned for a Charles Cohen update. In the meantime, it sounds like there's something else we're going to be talking about in the near future, which is perhaps a leadership change at Deco Off. And as we've been talking about throughout the show, perhaps there'll be some changes with how that show is put together and how it's organized and, and marketed to designers and to the industry. So I think we'll be talking about that very soon. And I look forward to that because I think there are certainly some opportunities there.
- [70:21]
B
A lot of foreshadowing. I like it. Yes.
- [70:24]
A
A lot more for us to talk about. All right. That's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings or take a workshop, visit us online@businessofhome.com if you want to get in touch with the show, write to us@podcastusinessofhome.com this episode was produced by Fred Nicholas and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great day weekend and we'll be back with you on Monday.