Business of Home Podcast: The Thursday Show

Episode Date: March 12, 2026
Host: Dennis Scully
Guest Co-Host: Fred Nicolaus, Executive Editor, Business of Home
Guest Interview: Elizabeth Rees, Founder of Chasing Paper

Episode Overview

This episode of the Business of Home Podcast is a wide-ranging exploration of the interior design industry’s current hot topics and emerging tensions. Host Dennis Scully and executive editor Fred Nicolaus recap a buzzworthy Women in Design panel, dissect pressing news (tariff refunds, Ernesta’s massive fundraise), and dive deep into the most controversial subjects facing designers today—particularly the ethical quandaries, risks, and practical boundaries of AI adoption. The duo also discuss a shift toward more human-centric photography in design media, professions’ love/hate relationship with Instagram, and the business evolution of Chasing Paper with founder Elizabeth Rees.

Main Discussion Highlights

1. Reflections on the Women in Design Event

Timestamps: [00:37]–[01:43]

• Both hosts attended a vibrant Women in Design panel at the New York Design Center, featuring celebrated industry figures like Annabel Selldorf and Wendy Goodman.
• Fred lauds Goodman as “such a warm and wise person. I feel like she’s kind of like my design industry guru, although I don’t think she knows that.” [01:11]
• Lively discussion turned to AI, ending in the shared uncertainty:
  • “And all these incredibly accomplished people are like, I don’t know (about AI). So I’m glad we’re all in the same boat.” – Fred [01:40]

2. News Recap: Monday’s Conversation with Jeffrey Bilhuber

Timestamps: [01:45]–[03:44]

• Standout moment from Jeffrey Bilhuber, recounted with reverence and humor, as he passionately listed what designers should know:
  • Quote: “You need to know what a box pleat is. You need to know what a kiss pleat is... the content and fill of every cushion and every pillow...” – Jeffrey Bilhuber [02:29]
• Fred quips: “It’s like from Dead Poets Society. I feel like I want to get up on the top of my desk.” [02:59]
• The hosts note how Bilhuber was, for a time, “the quintessential American designer”—one of the few to appear on Charlie Rose.

3. Tariff Refunds: Hopeful Developments and Skepticism

Timestamps: [05:37]–[08:20]

• U.S. customs agency is preparing a system to refund tariffs in as soon as 45 days—affecting huge companies and potentially billions of dollars.
• Fred’s take: “I think they’re coming up with a system to ideally pay some of it back...I’m a little more optimistic that people are going to see some of their money back.” [06:34]
• Dennis invokes the Madoff recovery effort: “Let’s get Irving Picard on the phone and just have him sort through all the home industries tariff complaints” [07:24]
• Both agree something is shifting, but call for measured optimism.

4. Ernesta’s $20M Raise: Disrupting the Rug Industry

Timestamps: [08:30]–[13:39]

• Ernesta, launched by former Peloton CEO John Foley, secured another $20M in funding, aiming to scale from 4 showrooms to 30+
• Industry context: traditionally fragmented market with small players struggling to raise even a fraction of such sums.
• Fred compares Ernesta’s model to The Shade Store, focusing on custom, niche, and showrooms: “You try and just win the category and be the name in a niche category.”
• Discussion of risk:“...when another venture capital backed company is raising some more money and is being pushed to grow...we assume those investors want John to hurry up.” – Dennis [13:10]
• Quince’s $500M round signals a renewed flow of venture funding into home.

5. The Ethics & Boundaries of AI in Design

Timestamps: [13:53]–[21:43]

Key Concerns

• Data Security

  • Designers are increasingly using AI, but with risk:
    • “It is not Google...There’s just people like, oh, yeah, I know what to do with this. I’ll just share everything about my company or my home address and my bank accounts.” – Dennis [15:11]
  • Fred recalls a personal mishap:
    • “I put my credit card statement into it and I was like, generate a picture of what you think I look like...definitely should not have done that.” [16:00]

• Environmental Impact

  • AI’s environmental footprint is substantial, from energy use to water consumption:
    • “The environmental impacts are real... the water issue is hugely important... But also we’ve started to hear...the increase in people’s electric bills and energy costs." – Dennis [17:08]
  • Solution is elusive: “I struggle with how to think about that though...” – Fred [17:08]

• Setting Boundaries

  • Designers are actively debating internal vs. external use of AI:
    • “We have a rule of nothing that goes out the door...Everything has to be generated by a human...We can use AI internally as part of our brainstorming, but nothing that goes out the door can be generated by AI.” – Fred recounting an architecture firm’s policy [19:45]
  • Dennis: “Some people...don’t want to start just mindlessly using this tool and not thinking about things, not really processing it in their own mind.” [18:57]
  • AI adoption is rapidly rising: A show-of-hands revealed a large share of designers now use it in some form.

6. The Return of Humans in Design Photography

Timestamps: [21:45]–[29:28]

• Design brands and media are featuring more people (and even quirky dogs!) in their photo shoots, disrupting the long-dominant style of pristine, depopulated interiors.
• Reference to the vintage RH catalog approach—“nary human in sight” [22:10]
• Dennis highlights Our House’s playful campaign with costumed characters:
  • “Maybe they’re saying...one of our big competitors isn’t showing people. Maybe we can.” [25:49]
• Social media dynamics fuel this trend:
  • “So much of what we see every day is user generated content...posting images of themselves...it just starts to look kind of stale and stiff if you just post a beautiful photo of a chair and nothing.” – Fred [25:02]
• Human presence also differentiates brand photos from AI-generated imagery.

7. Is Instagram Ruining Interior Design?

Timestamps: [29:28]–[36:00]

• Recent articles and Instagram polls suggest many in the field believe the app is stifling originality and quickening trend cycles.

• Notable audience feedback:

  • “Clients imagination is so limited to what they see on Instagram. They want that exact room...It stunts our creative ability.” – Emily Sturgess, as paraphrased by Dennis [30:23]
  • “Homogenization is real. I want people to get inspired by a fabric or a material rather than an entire image...” – Sprague Interiors [30:44]

• Markham Roberts’ Veranda essay reminisces about the discipline of slow, analog inspiration versus “frantically thumb scrolling to find the next thing.” [31:39]

• Fred: “Instagram does taketh away, we lose something to it, but it’s really given a lot to the industry too.” [33:10]

• Surging impatience and attention deficit:

  • Designers face pressure to present more quickly to clients with shortened attention spans. [33:16]
  • Social media posts can eclipse traditional media placements, shifting PR strategy.

• Dosage of nostalgia vs. adaptation:

  • “We just have to accept that this is the reality of the moment and do the best we can within it.” – Fred, paraphrasing Wendy Goodman [35:46]

8. Interview: Elizabeth Rees of Chasing Paper

Timestamps: [37:49]–[68:13]

The Chasing Paper Story

• Launched as a removable (“peel & stick”) wallpaper brand in 2013, inspired by demand among renters and direct-to-consumer (DTC) startups.
• Overcame a market strongly biased against removable wallpaper. Rees recalls calling “every single showroom in North America and…got a no from a hundred percent of showrooms.” [43:48]
• Found opportunity in DTC, targeting young, urban women:
  • "The person who was buying our wallpaper was probably hanging it herself...And that was great because...she was my age...and we've really been able to sort of seamlessly continue on with our customer through all of these different life milestones and moments." [44:24]
• Family background in commercial printing provided technical edge but not major funding or trade connections.

Business Evolution & Strategy

• Expanded from removable to traditional, then to commercial-grade materials (“type 2 vinyl”), tracking customer demand.
• Always printed on-demand; avoids inventory risk.
  • “My entire business is set up...I print everything on demand. And I have since day one.” [50:30]
• Growth fostered by DTC partnerships (e.g., West Elm, Crate & Kids) and recently a strategic focus on trade:
  • “Now we have great relationships...And it's great because there's no pressure on either side...we can just like sell wallpaper.” [50:45]
  • “We saw a 39% growth in our trade program...it’s so exciting to see that kind of growth.” [54:58]
• Approach to trade shows and design events (Design Social):
  • “It's not just about customers. Brooks [Morrison] has created a community where vendors support and share with each other, which has been so valuable.” [56:46]

New Fabric Line & Future Vision

• Launching fabric as a trade-forward move, in response to designer feedback and the trend toward coordinated wallpapers/textiles.
  • “I wanted to really learn that customer. I didn’t think I wanted to come out of the gate...We have much more of a crawl, walk, run approach at Chasing Paper.” [59:16]
• On demand from designers: “They are sourcing, they’re looking. They know what’s not out there. And so they’re able to really create a collection that feels very usable.” [61:07]
• Reluctance about brick-and-mortar retail: “We are a digitally native company...People always say...do you have those big wallpaper books? And I’m like, no. Like, we’re always changing things online...We’re definitely like a new kind of wallpaper brand.” [63:35]
• Launching a book—Wallflowers: A Love Letter to Wallpaper—with history, design stories, and interviews.

9. Industry Roundup – “What Caught Our Eye?”

Timestamps: [68:22]–[71:39]

• Fred:
  • Kelly Wearstler’s custom piano
  • John Pomp’s feature in the RH catalog
  • Changes at Deco Off (new PR, possible shakeup)
• Dennis:
  • D&D Building to open a new restaurant in late spring
  • Williams Sonoma launches sustainability brand Green Row: “I was a little bit skeptical...and it was really fun...some interesting furniture...definitely felt a little bit sort of Laura Ashley 2.0.” [70:22]
  • Announcements of in-person events: Dialogues on Design at New York School of Interior Design featuring Ken Fulk and Amber Lewis.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On AI Uncertainty:
  “All these incredibly accomplished people are like, I don’t know [what to do about AI]. So I’m glad we’re all in the same boat.” – Fred [01:41]

• On Traditional Skills:
  “You need to know what a box pleat is. You need to know what a kiss pleat is...the content and fill of every cushion...” – Jeffrey Bilhuber [02:29]

• On Business Resilience:
  “I called every single showroom...and I got a no from a hundred percent of showrooms.” – Elizabeth Rees, Chasing Paper [43:48]

• On AI Data Risks:
  “It is not Google...I'll just share everything about my company or my home address and my bank accounts. People are using it for so many different reasons...” – Dennis [15:11]

• On Instagram’s Impact
  “Homogenization is real. I want people to get inspired by a fabric or a material rather than an entire image...” – Sprague Interiors via Dennis [30:44]

• On Embracing the Present:
  “You have to be of your time. I think it's only so good to think about the way things used to be...we just have to accept that this is the reality of the moment.” – Fred, quoting Wendy Goodman [35:46]

Episode Structure (Timestamps)

• 00:07 – Opening, Welcome, Women in Design Panel Recap
• 01:45 – Bilhuber Interview Recap
• 05:37 – News: Tariff Refund Developments
• 08:30 – News: Ernesta Fundraise and Rug Industry Disruption
• 13:53 – The Ethics of AI: Data Security, Environmental Impact, Policy/Boundaries
• 21:45 – Humans Return to Design Photography
• 29:28 – Instagram: Boon and Bane for Design
• 37:49 – Interview: Elizabeth Rees, Chasing Paper (brand history, business model, trade focus, new fabric line, future plans)
• 68:22 – “What Caught Our Eye?” segment
• 71:39 – Plugs for Events, Closing

Conclusion

This episode delivers a lively, honest look at the future of the design industry—toggling between enduring skills and rapid innovation, cautionary tales and optimism. Real-world business acumen (from tariffs and VC rounds to DTC pivots), nuanced takes on AI, and an inside look at how aesthetics (and platforms like Instagram) shape professional practice make this a must-listen for designers seeking both inspiration and grounding.