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Business of Home Podcast
The Thursday Show: Has the design industry gotten too big? Plus: Event planner and designer Rebecca Gardner on crafting the perfect party
00:57:48
Host Dennis Scully and BOH executive editor Fred Nicolaus discuss the biggest news in the design world. Later event planner and designer Rebecca Gardner shares insight from her career, alongside tips for crafting the perfect party.
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- [00:07]
A
This is Business of home. I'm Dennis Scully, and welcome to the Thursday Show. Later on, I'll be speaking with event designer Rebecca Gardner about her new book, A Screaming Blast. But first, we're going to catch up on the news, including a new salary report from the asid, changes at Afternoon Light, and a look at Kips Bay's 50th anniversary. To do all that, I'm joined by Business of Home's executive editor, Fred Nicholas. Hi, Fred.
- [00:34]
B
Hi, Dennis. How's it going? Great.
- [00:36]
A
How are you doing?
- [00:37]
B
I'm good. I hope we have A Screaming Blast today recording the Thursday show.
- [00:41]
A
I feel certain we will.
- [00:42]
B
You're calling in from the Windy City. How's Chicago? What are you there for?
- [00:45]
A
Well, I was doing a really interesting panel last night on the underrepresentation of women in the art world. One of my panelists was this very interesting woman named Hall Rockefeller, who has an organization called Less Than Half. And she was pointing out that just 15% of museum collections in the US feature work by women artists, and only 3% of items that come up for sale at art auctions are created by women. So we were having this conversation just about raising awareness around this issue and trying to get more people to support women artists, and particularly living artists, and.
- [01:24]
B
Being able to help people, ones who can actually benefit from exactly that.
- [01:28]
A
They can continue to do their work regardless of what's going on in their life. So it was a. It was a very engaging conversation and I was glad to be part of it.
- [01:36]
B
Great subject. Yeah.
- [01:38]
A
Important.
- [01:39]
B
A less serious subject is I Feel the Need. So we have a little segment at the very end of the show. Dennis doesn't like that I plug it, but I'm going to plug it. We come back after the interview to talk about a few things that kind of caught our eye. And this week, to the hundreds of people who have sent us the viral RH video, we are going to get to that RH video in the Caught My Eye segment. So stick around through the interview to hear what we think of that. In the meantime, let's look back on Monday's episode. An interview with sisters Gemma and Flora Soames, the team behind, of course, the Flora Soames fabric brand, great UK brand. What'd you make of the conversation, Dennis?
- [02:19]
A
It was a great conversation. It was poignant that challenges for each of them brought them together and ended up working together. And I don't want to give all that away, but it was. It was a really interesting conversation. And I don't think that I've had a conversation with two sisters working together in business. Lots of husbands and wives and close friends. But it was interesting to hear the dynamic with the two of them. And Flora Soames, who I first met when she was somewhat on the fence about really coming to the US and being in multi line showrooms is suddenly going into a great many multi line showrooms around the US So coming to a market near you.
- [03:02]
B
Yeah, the sibling relationship is sort of fraught in a way that the spousal relationship is. It's a different kind of fraught than the spousal relationship. But I don't know. I get along well with my brother. If he wants to start a podcast, just I know he occasionally listens to the show. Just give me a ring. Jack. My favorite detail from the show is I'm listening to the conversation. I edit the shows before they go out or I work on the editing. Like an hour in, you drop. Oh, and by the way, you happen to be the great granddaughters of Winston Churchill. Just a little biographical fact. Very, very fun details. You know, we've been speaking to a lot of English, you know, designers and people who work for English brands. I always love hearing their take on what makes English style English style. And I think they have a very good answer to that question. So certainly tune in, tune in for that as well as a lot of other little gems.
- [03:49]
A
No, absolutely. And my father, a devoted Anglophile and kept a portrait of Winston Churchill in his bedroom. So I felt very, very close to this conversation in a lot of ways. But I also didn't want that to define them. And I don't think it. It does. So it is an interesting fact. But they are, they are a lot more than just Winston Churchill's great granddaughters. So you will, you will find out all of that. All right, we're going to get into the news in just a minute, but first, a quick break. This podcast is sponsored by Newport brass. For over 35 years, Newport brass has handcrafted solid brass kitchen and bath faucets made to last for generations. Inspired by coastal elegance, these fixtures balance east coast tradition with west coast ease, offering timeless silhouettes and uncompromising craftsmanship. With a palette of 22 finishes and endless configurations, Newport Brass gives every project presence, purpose and distinction. See what's possible@newportbrass.com this podcast is sponsored by Chelsea House. Celebrated designer Amanda Lindroth is bringing her signature island style to high point. Amanda's introducing her line of furniture, accessories and lighting in partnership with Chelsea House, the storied North Carolina Based company Think sun, bleached neutrals, breezy verandas and old world charm. From hand woven trays to scalloped side chairs, each piece captures the effortless elegance of island life. The Amanda Lindroth Home Collection debuts during High point Market on October 23rd through the 29th. Preview the line at amandalindroth.com or Chelsea House Inc.com and come celebrate with Amanda at her book signing cocktail soiree on Saturday, October 25th from 4 to 6pm and we're back. First up, Fred, Afternoon Light.
- [05:58]
B
All right, one for the hipsters. The cool kids e commerce site has made some changes, big changes. It's leaving E commerce behind. It's breaking up with and more. And it's got a new event named, fittingly Afternoon Light, which makes sense. We just broke this news last week. In fact, I kind of gossiped about it in the. Yes, exactly. Another reason to stick around for caught my eye. What'd you make of this, Dennis?
- [06:23]
A
Well, I mean, we should talk about what Afternoon Light is and what Shelter was because it was an interesting new show and it sounds like they've learned a lot about what they want to do next from the experience that they've.
- [06:37]
B
Just had and what they don't want to do next, I think just, just more precisely. Yes.
- [06:41]
A
Yeah.
- [06:42]
B
So Afternoon Light is a partnership between Minia Quirk and Deirdre Meloni. These are, these are people who helped found Shop Object, a very successful, you know, trade show. Before that, they were kind of in the fashion trade show world. So these are trade show veterans. In 2022, they launched afternoon Light, which was an E commerce site. And it was an E commerce site for all the kind of like undiscovered up and coming hipstery. That's why I mentioned that kind of cool design world brands. They wanted it to be a place where you could shop for something unexpected for your home. But then last year, they kind of wanted to pick up the trade show game again. So they started a show called Shelter, which debuted here in New York during design week. And they partnered with, of all people and more, the giant trade show corporate giant Shelter went up and it was a cool show. It was about 10 blocks away from ICFF. It was kind of these up and coming cool brands. I had a great time. But we've since got the news that they're no longer partnering with Anmore and they're gonna do kind of basically a version of the same show just in a different venue. And they're doing it entirely on their own. And it's no longer called Shelter. It's called Afternoon Light.
- [07:50]
A
So a lot of change in there.
- [07:52]
B
Well, it's funny because it's kind of the same thing. It's just that there's a lot of change to get to a very similar show.
- [07:57]
A
Yes. And sensibly, they're not going to do it again in the Stare at Lehigh building because really that was my main concern in France.
- [08:04]
B
Well, we used to work in the Starrett Lehigh. I think that's more of a personal vendetta.
- [08:08]
A
A building convenient to no one on earth. And I think they must have discovered that really during the show.
- [08:13]
B
Well, yeah, I mean, I think it had the convenience of being near icff, but yes, it's not exactly subway accessible. Yeah, I mean, just to sort of quickly explain. So it was always a bit of a weird marriage for them to partner with Anmore. It's a little bit. I think I may have even said this when we first talked about it, but it's almost like a cool underground band getting signed to a giant major label. They just approached things a little bit differently and I don't think there was necessarily any drama, but I think after doing it for a year, after speaking with Minya and Dierdre, it was sort of clear that they weren't really seeing eye to eye and so they broke off and are doing it on their own. But I think Anmore, technically, because of the contract, owned the name Shelter. So I don't actually know if Anmore is going to do Shelter. They own the name. They could presumably do it, but I'm not totally sure they will. And I think probably from their perspective, it was just simple to name the new show the same thing as the, you know, their brand, I guess. I'm curious, you know, you are a little bit of an NYC by Design Design Week. I don't want to say doubter, I don't want to say skeptic, but you have some questions. I'm curious what your take on all of this and, you know, how it contributes to the overall picture that is New York Design Week.
- [09:20]
A
I think I struggle a little bit with the. The cohesion and the how all of the events fit together. I love the concept of New York Design Week and to have a lot of events that are going on simultaneously to I and years ago, ICFF was such a big show and people were coming from all over the world that it made a lot of sense for the showrooms in soho, many of which were the cool Italian and Scandinavian brands, to open up their showrooms at night. And have these design crawls where people went to lots of different events and cocktail parties. Mostly people who I didn't know and who were dressed in a lot more black than I ever wear. But. Yes, but it made a lot of sense and it packed a lot of showrooms rooms and I completely understand that. Since then, I have understood less some of the connection with some of these events and who they're trying to draw and all of that. I didn't get to go to Shelter, sadly, like you did, so I don't know who was there and what it was like. It sounded like there were some elements of cash and carry at the event that were a little confusing and it sounds like they're reconsidering that with their future show. But. But more broadly, I'm always a little bit confused about all of the different elements that are going on during NYC by design and how they tie together.
- [10:44]
B
Yeah, well, I think your confusion is like someone else's opportunity. Right. As Jeff Bezos famously said. But I do think it is a little bit of a disparate event, honestly. I think Deirdre and Minu would totally agree with you. I think that's what they want to do is sort of make another big tentpole event like icff, but one that's a little bit more independently minded. This new version, Afternoon Light, will be downtown at this building called the WSA here in New York. It's got a lot of fashion shows and so I think that's a good partnership and we'll have to see. I really liked Shelter. I think probably they liked it too. I'm sure they wanted more people to come in the door. I'm sure they want more people to come in the door next year. We should also say too, that they quit E Commerce. So they're still doing a few things on the site. I think they're selling like 15, 20 things. But they've more or less taken down the E commerce component of the site. And that was interesting to me simply because there is this need for there to be some, like an online source that sells cool independent brands that don't, you know, they don't have their own E commerce present on their own site to speak of. They're maybe not a natural fit for some of the bigger marketplaces. There is a white space there, but I think it's just, it's, you know, darned hard to. To fill it. And I think that Minya and Deirdre were just like, this is a whole other hustle. We don't want to do this. We're trade show people. We want to get back to what we know. But I do feel like there's, there's. Someone's got to come in and solve that. It just doesn't seem like it's them.
- [12:05]
A
It sounds like they've learned a great deal. And I think that clearly the E commerce element is challenging. I don't know if they're going to want to bring that to the next show that they do that component, but we'll see. Others seem to want to try and make it work.
- [12:20]
B
Yeah, just this week, actually, our producer Caroline Burke wrote about this new site called Aeria, which launched last year, which is not exactly the same as Afternoon Light, but the similar goal of doing E commerce for makers and artisans and bringing them to the trade. The challenge is just that there's this obvious opportunity. But most people who get into it come from the world of they know retailing, they know relationships with artisans and makers. But E commerce is just almost a numbers game. It really is like a hustle that comes out of understanding how to plug in the right amounts of money into Instagram ad spends. And it's a very different industry entirely. I do think there is this tantalizing idea that there needs to be something and people come in and try and fill that hole. And it's difficult. And I certainly wish Aria all the best. Maybe we'll have them on the show at some point to talk about it, but in the meantime, a change of pace for Afternoon Light and you better come this time next year. There's no excuses.
- [13:21]
A
I will definitely be there and I was sorry to miss it, but I look forward to it. And listen, we wish everyone the best, but don't say we didn't warn you about the E commerce part of this, because it is, it is a challenge indeed. Moving on, we're going to talk about the new ASID report. The American Society of Interior Designers released its third annual State of the Industry report. Designer salaries went up slightly, as did the number of design firms. But there are signs of a cooldown as well. Fred, what did you make of the report?
- [13:51]
B
Well, I love digging into the nerdy numbers. This is always, always Christmas Day when the SAD drops itself. State of the Industry report. It also, it's funny because it weighs in on the perennial question of how many designers are there. I think we've talked about this on the show before. My overriding statement is that nobody really knows here. The ASID kind of staples together a couple different numbers and comes up with 128,000, which I think is certainly more than the pool of people that maybe really high. That is a big number. It's more than probably the people we talk to here on Business of Home, But I do think it's interesting to see how they arrive at that number. Yeah, the cooldown is good point. I think what the report makes clear is that this industry overall, however big it is, 128,000 or smaller, has gotten a lot bigger over the past decade. They showed the growth. Whether you disagree with their numbers or not. They're comparing apples to apples. You see, in 2012, it was 57,000 according to one count, and now it's 128,000. Even if those numbers aren't exactly accurate, it has grown a lot. But the point the report makes is that the growth has leveled off a little bit. The number of designers kind of went down just a very tiny amount. The overall billing of the industry kind of seems about flat. It seems like after kind of like sort of structural growth and Covid exuberance, the interior design industry as a whole may be flat for a couple of years, starting now. What do you think about that?
- [15:16]
A
Yeah, it's hard to imagine that the housing stagnation that we talk about so often on the show isn't having a huge impact on these numbers. And you also just get a sense that it doesn't seem unreasonable in the context of how much the industry has grown to suggest that certainly it can't continue to grow at quite that rate. So that seems very reasonable. And I think it's remarkable in some cases to see how much the numbers have grown in some key markets especially. Don't you think?
- [15:49]
B
Yeah, well, I mean, that was kind of another big takeaway from the study, is that we often talk about on the show that Texas is the next big market, if it isn't already the big market outside of New York and California. What this study shows is that Florida actually in many cases is the big market. Aside from California, there's a couple different metrics. It's the second biggest number of designers after California. It's the second biggest overall spend after California. There's a huge amount of designers in Miami. I don't think we exactly overlook Florida in our coverage, but maybe we've indexed a little bit more towards talking about Texas when really we should have been talking about Florida. What do you think about that?
- [16:28]
A
Well, it's. It's a great point because I talk to so many designers and they say that's where these giant projects are. That's where all this money has been spent. We. We know that. That Florida played a. A huge role in the. In the most recent elections and, and lots of big campaign donors there. And during COVID just a lot of people that moved to. To Florida. So, I mean, you're right. We probably haven't been talking about it enough. It'll be interesting to see. There's lots of speculation in the market recently about whether Miami is about to have a huge correction in terms of the real estate scene there and whether that's going to.
- [17:07]
B
Every year about Miami, I feel like. I feel like there hasn't been a year where people haven't wondered whether Miami's going to have a big correction. But I think that's fairly.
- [17:14]
A
Well, that's interesting because somebody. I was talking to a business leader the other day who said that Miami is just a great big W. It just goes up and then it comes way down and then it goes up. So, I mean, I think you're absolutely right. People are always getting ready to write Miami off. But remarkable how strong Palm beach has been and some of those other areas. So, yeah, Florida is a big design scene, to be sure.
- [17:36]
B
I'm curious, in terms of the overall number of interior designers and the saturation of the marketplace, as the report makes clear, we're flat a little bit. What do you think is going to happen next, do you think? I guess I'm thinking of. During COVID there were so many new design firms that were launched. I did an article in 20, 22 or so, and I did this interview. A designer in San Diego who all of her young junior associates all left during COVID to start their own firms. They were 22, but they could fill up their pipeline really quickly because there was so much demand. The designer made the point. These are talented people, but I'm worried this is going to oversaturate the industry. It's going to give people the wrong impression about design. Maybe there are some designers out there who would welcome a little bit of a retreat to a smaller number of firms, a smaller number of designers. I don't know. It's hard to tell. My inclination is always to say the more the merrier. But maybe it's actually. Maybe we've actually grown too much and we need to come back down. What do you think about that?
- [18:32]
A
I spoke to so many seasoned designers about that very subject. All these people going out on their own and so many of them sort of scratch their chin a little bit. It's sort of a wise way said, oh, they'll be home. They'll come back.
- [18:47]
B
They'll be back.
- [18:48]
A
Yes, they'll be back. And I think, not that I really believe that 128,000 number, but if it's anywhere close to that, that's probably a lot relative to the overall demand out there. And again, no one is imagining that this huge next wave of a housing cycle is just about to begin. If that were the case, maybe, but it's hard to believe. And again, I think that there are so many challenges to the industry right now that it's hard for me to believe that it doesn't, if nothing else, just stabilize, flatline for a while, if not meaningfully come down.
- [19:25]
B
Yeah, well, we'll have to see. I think another kind of interesting trend to think about is the fact that it really is the top 10% or even the top 5% of earners in the US who are really spending. So I think the competition at the very top of the market feels hotter than ever. And for a while, I feel like there was almost a bigger middle class of interior designers who were working with people who maybe historically wouldn't have worked with a designer. And I don't know if those people are feeling quite as flush right now for a variety of reasons. I don't know. I'm always just hopeful that there'll be a way for the industry to sort of like sustainably grow. But maybe in order to sustainably grow, we need to. Maybe the force needs to get smaller before it gets bigger, but we'll see.
- [20:03]
A
No, I agree. I mean, one of the other things that I was encouraged by apropos of the earlier conversation about women, representation in art. Very clear from this report that there is a strong number of female leaders in the world of interior design. I think the number was 70% for female interior designers versus males. So, I mean, huge, huge disparity there. But I think that's a good thing.
- [20:29]
B
The design industry has never been the most diverse place. But if you look at the rising student class, because they sort of separate by students in design school and practicing designers, the rising student class is more diverse in the practicing industry. So there's reason to believe that that'll change in the years ahead. We'll certainly be checking in next year when Christmas comes again and The ASID releases its 4 4th state of the Industry report. But for now, those are the numbers.
- [20:54]
A
We look forward to that. In the meantime, we're going to talk about Kips Bay. The New York decorator show house just debuted its 50th edition. Fred, you took a deep dive into Kips Bay history and wrote a feature for Business of Home. What did you find?
- [21:08]
B
Well, I found a deep dive into Kips Bay history, Dennis. It's honestly like, sometimes writers have sort of an ulterior motive in choosing an assignment. And I think that, like, for me, my happy place is like diving deep into the New York Times archive and reading articles about 1977 Kips Bay. It was really, really fun to go back and read 50 plus years of coverage on this institution here. So that was really fun. I'll get into what I found in a little bit. But I'm just curious. You must have been going to Kips Bay for a long time. What's your sort of earliest memory of the show house?
- [21:42]
A
My mother is a longtime member of the New York Junior League. And so it used to be sort of a regular out that the Junior Leaguers would go to the house and often my mother would bring me along and take me through the house. And it was. I'm not sure I knew quite what to make of what the house was really all about or what they were trying to achieve, but I thought, well, this is so great that these women get to go out to lunch. They go and look at this pretty house, and then they went and had drinks afterwards. So I thought, yeah, this seems great.
- [22:18]
B
Drinks afterwards is an important part of the Kips Bay experience. Or during, if you go to the opening night party. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's funny because one of the things about the piece was interesting to dive into is that sometimes people actually call Kips Bay the first decorator showhouse. It's really not. There were several before, but I think it was kind of, as I said in the article, it's the first one that really felt like it really mattered on a large scale. It's the one. A lot of show houses are kind of about their local design scene and supporting a local charity. Kips Bay is that too. And you have the kind of ladies who lunch who go there, and that's all part of it. But it sort of got beyond that through coverage in the media and through sort of taking on a little bit of a spotlight of being like that nationally known show house. So it was interesting to sort of track that through time as it went from being kind of like a society institution into something that is covered in national media, I think largely just because it's in New York and a lot of great interior designers in New York. And so. So it's of a very high caliber. And of course, the media is Here, too. So there goes that New York media bias that we were talking about last week in regards to San Francisco. It's funny, and this may be just something that was fun to look at for the article, but it's also funny how Kips Bay is kind of like. It's almost like a Rorschach test, because it is the rare show house that's covered by not just the design media, but newspapers weigh in on it. You see all the different Kips Bay takes. There was one writer, I don't know if you read this way back at the time, but he actually spent three days and nights living in Kips Bay one weekend. And he was like, this house isn't comfortable. And I was like, well, sir, there's a reason for that. But it sometimes is kind of used as a lens to sort of make fun of the design industry. Maybe unfairly, I think, but I don't know, it was just fun to sort of read that old coverage.
- [24:02]
A
Well, it's interesting about the media coverage, and one of the things that has evolved a great deal, and you and I were talking about this a little bit recently, is the vendor participation in the. In the house. And I think in a lot of ways that has contributed to the national magazines having an even greater interest in covering the house because there are so many advertising partners that are in there. And in a way, great. You know, let that be a reason why even more attention comes to that. And I think we've also seen some really savvy partners. We talk about the Shade Store and the relationship that they created with Kips Bay and being the window coverings for the houses, but also developing these relationship with designers having all of this great photography from the rooms to use for their ad campaigns. There's been a lot of strategy around that. And I think the house is. I mean, Kips Bay is all around the country. I think Kips Bay has been a great launching pad for new product introductions and for a lot of companies to show you their product in a much more compelling way than they might be able to in a showroom or on a sales call in your office. Seeing that Christopher Peacock's kitchen and all the materials that he uses in the house is so dramatic. And I think that that's very impactful. And that's just sort of one of many examples.
- [25:31]
B
Yeah. And I think that's an example of something that's changed, Right. Because I think in the early days, I think it was much more sort of like local trade brands making kind of like handshake Deals with designers and loaning them pieces that still very much happens. And that's, you know, that's a lot, a lot of what goes into Kips Bay is deals like that. But there are these kind of like bigger sponsorship and bigger partnerships that kind of go hand in hand with it being like a national brand. And you know, I'm sure there are some designers who would rather use their own guy for whatever it is, whether it's Tyler or upholstery or whatever. But I think as you said, there's a sort of a mutual benefit to, to everybody being involved. And of course because it's for charity, the charity ultimately benefits. So it's kind of cool to see how it's become kind of like a flywheel that benefits the designers, benefits the brands and benefits the charity sort of in a happy kind of way. The one sort of cog in the Kipps Bay machine, and I think this is probably true of all show houses, is I think getting a venue has become increasingly complicated for them because it used to be it was like, I think just it was a connection through New York high society. Somebody had a townhouse they didn't mind lending out. Real estate transactions were slower, they were less commercialized. Whereas now it's like you've got compass and everything is very data driven. I think people are more impatient, they want to make deals more quickly. Certainly New York real estate is very hot as it maybe always has been, but even more so now it's genuinely hard for them to find a house. The Kips Bay this year, which is the 50th edition, was postponed at the last minute from spring to fall. I suspect they'll have a hard time next year of wondering like what does that mean for the show house institution in general and Kips Bay in particular? What do you think?
- [27:05]
A
Well, it is very challenging. And I remember the Holiday House show house had this Russian oligarchs townhouse that they just always had permission to reuse. And so every year you just knew you had this Russian oligarch's house to yourself. And then I don't know what happened. Eventually that was no longer available.
- [27:25]
B
But now what reason could there be for a Russian oligarch?
- [27:29]
A
What happened there that caused that? Yeah, so I mean, we don't need to go there. But it was very comforting for them to be able to plan and to know. And I think that there's a lot to be said. You can see why the wow house that happens in London gets built in the Chelsea harbor design center and then gets broken down and they can control the space. And I think that there's a lot to be said for just knowing you've got a venue. But in a lot of ways, I mean, I think this very different space than they had originally imagined created, I think a lot more of a different kind of flow than other houses have had in the past. I was surprised how many designers reached out to me and said that the house just felt so much more consistent, like you didn't get the sense of these wildly disconnected rooms. And it felt much more of a hole. And I think in a way that was forced because of this very different space that they ended up using. So, I mean, it did create a very different experience than perhaps it otherwise might have.
- [28:36]
B
Yeah, I think that's such a good point because on the one hand you want to be able to plan far ahead and have the reliability, and certainly no one who works for Kips Bay is thinking like, boy, I wish we could have more last minute challenges and crazy panics. But as you know, because I'm the producer of this show, I am a fan of last minute panic and crazy. I like to have those happen on the podcast and sometimes you get the most creative moments out of adversity and last minute changes and someone drops a mirror or whatever. I do think that no one wants for those kinds of things to happen, but they do play a part in what makes the show kind of magical. And I think the designers are used to rolling with the punches and as long as they can find a house, I'm sure the talent will make it the best house it can be. So just knock on wood that they'll be able to, I don't know, meet a Russian oligarch between now and next year because it's an institution and one I certainly am fond of. So long. May it continue.
- [29:31]
A
Absolutely. And they have enough headaches to deal with. It would be great if they knew that they could count on a house. So I hope that happens for them. In the meantime, Fred, we're going to move on and talk about new smart home tech.
- [29:43]
B
This week the Wall Street Journal took a look at what's next in smart home technology. Mostly it's AI. Surprise, surprise. Google and Amazon are both unveiling new AI powered smart speakers that promise to do everything from dimming the lights to finding your law dog. Dennis, what are you going to use your new AI powered smart speaker to do?
- [30:02]
A
Well, I found the whole find your dog. This new search party technology from Ring that they're talking about was, I don't Know, Fred, I don't know if it was a little spooky because they also talked about, hey, you know, who else goes missing is some relative that might have dementia who's wandered off. And apparently the technology is going to activate cameras throughout the neighborhood to help you find either your dog or your, your relative who might have wandered off. So I don't know that, that sounded.
- [30:31]
B
Nothing, nothing dystopian about that whatsoever.
- [30:34]
A
No, that doesn't sound alarming at all. I kept thinking of Tom Cruise in Minority Report where he used his, his old eyeballs to like fool the cameras and, and get through security. But hopefully it won't come to that. I don't know. I don't talk to a lot of people that say, hey, you know what? I wish I had more AI in my house, like listening to everything and watching everything I'm doing. So I don't know.
- [30:59]
B
Yeah, I mean, just to sort of briefly make the case for these new devices. So I have a Google Smart Hub speaker. It's very old at this point, but it almost doesn't matter because largely what I use it for is setting a kitchen timer, finding out what the weather is, and playing music. I think this point has been made by others, but those are kind of the three uses that people mostly use their smart speakers for. And there's not a lot of, hey, Alexa, what's in my fridge and buy all the ingredients I need to make a casserole. That doesn't happen as much in real life as it does in commercials. I do think that layering on AI and all these other kinds of features will make those kinds of smart speakers actually more useful. And maybe you can ask it more sophisticated questions and maybe it can do more to make you more efficient at home or whatever it is the goal is. But as you said, there's always sort of this trade off of, of, well, how much are you getting and how much are you giving up? And as you said, I do think that increasingly it feels like we want to escape from technology at home rather than have more of it. I'm thinking about Kips Bay. So as part of the research, I was looking back at all these rooms from the past, and especially in the 80s and 90s during the big smart home technology boom, there were so many Kips Bay rooms that were all about technology. And look at this. We put a computer printer on the kitchen island. And look at this, we put 17 screens in the back bathroom. And I kind of feel like we've been disillusioned with that. And most Recent kids space have had almost no smart home technology at all. And I think that says something.
- [32:30]
A
I think it does. And I think what is the problem that we're trying to solve is I think, so often the question. Truthfully, I wish there was some smart technology in my hotel room to say, hey, how do I work these lights? And hey, why is this bathroom so poorly lit? But, you know, I think it's in places that you're not familiar with where you actually need the smart technology to help guide you. But there is a lot of opportunity for really useful smart technology. I was going to talk about this on a previous show, but when I was in Atlanta, I had this interesting conversation with a designer, Tish Mills, who had come into New York to visit Lutron to go and see their Ketra technology that they were introducing. And this technology, you program in your latitude and longitude of your location, and it adjusts the lighting throughout the day. Day based on where the sun is and. And adjust your shades if you want to. That all sounded like, wow, that's really useful smart technology. I could see that being engaging, but. But some of the other things. I don't know if it's all the speakers that listen to everything that's going.
- [33:40]
B
On in your house. Right? Yeah, right.
- [33:42]
A
That's the part that just makes me a little nervous. But I do like the idea of. Of being able to find your dog. I always want you to be able to find your dog.
- [33:51]
B
Yeah, that's how they get you. Right. You know, you don't want to lose your dog. Right. It sounds almost like a threat. You know, be ashamed if you lost your dog. Plug in this camera into your.
- [34:00]
A
Don't you care about Fido? Get this new ring camera.
- [34:03]
B
Right?
- [34:03]
A
Come on.
- [34:04]
B
I know. I mean, I think also, like, you know, from the perspective of designers, like, designers have always had a tortured relationship with smart home technology. I think, like, in the 80s and 90s, as I mentioned, it was really booming and there was all these new developments. And then I think so many designers were burned by, you know, recommending that their clients install it, only to have to rip it out three months later when the next thing came along or have to deal with all these complicated remotes that were hard to use. It's also difficult for designers to monetize because it's largely installed by a totally different creative professional. So there's always been a very uneasy relationship there. And I think that in recent years, I feel like it's rare to meet a designer who feels really excited about technology at home. Maybe there's some new innovation that will change that, but I feel like the industry has already voiced its displeasure at this kind of thing, and I suspect that these smart home speakers will do nothing to. Do nothing to change that. Lost dog or no.
- [34:55]
A
No. But I'm glad that you've got a good timer and weather report system there that you can use.
- [35:00]
B
Yeah, that's important.
- [35:02]
A
All right, that's it for the news, but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com including advice from Sean Lowe on bad client referrals and our designer's guide to High Point Market. We'll be back in a minute, but first, a quick break. Imagine having the hottest products in home furnishings right at your fingertips and at your doorstep in days. Imagine walking through a showroom where every turn of your head is an aha moment, and every turn of a corner takes you into a new world of inspiration. Stop imagining and start experiencing. You'll find the best of today in the best place at High Point Market. Stop into the Chelsea House showroom at High point Market Market, 200 North Hamilton, October 23rd through the 29th, or visit online@chelseahouseinc.com this break is brought to you by Newport Brass. Trusted by designers. For more than three decades, Newport Brass has handcrafted solid brass kitchen and bath faucets made to last for generations. With a pallet of 22 finishes and endless configurations, Newport Brass gives every project presence, purpose, and distinction. See what's possible@newportbrass.com and we're back. I'm joined now by Rebecca Gardner, the founder of Houses and Parties and also the author of a new book called A Screaming Exceptional Entertaining. Rebecca, thank you so much for joining.
- [36:42]
C
I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me.
- [36:44]
A
Dennis, delighted to have you on the show. It's been in the works for some time, Rebecca. You know, I've gotten a lot of outreach from people saying, you've gotta talk to Rebecca, have her on the show. All right, Nick Olson. All right, I've got her.
- [36:57]
C
Yeah. Thank you. Nick Olson, my dear friend that I have known for so long.
- [37:01]
A
Is that right?
- [37:02]
C
I have. I have. When I worked at scad, one of my jobs was to bring movers and shakers to Savannah to meet with students, to create relationships and to mentor and to inspire. And Nick Olsen was always so generous. This was the real domino. Rita Koenig, Nick Olsen heyday. And that was sort of the beginning of parties. You know, I get to entertain all of these design stars.
- [37:31]
A
Well, so I was wondering about knowing a little bit about the evolution and some of your early experiences, how it all came to be. Scad plays is a pivotal role. But tell me a little bit about how you got started and a little bit about yourself. For people who might not be familiar.
- [37:48]
C
I'm from south Texas, and people really party in Corpus Christi, Texas. There is a necessity to make your own fun. And I grew up surrounded by a gaggle of hairsprayed women that knew how to do it. And this all comes natural to me. It's entertaining and sharing and gathering is a part of me from the very beginning.
- [38:10]
A
Well, and so what came first? There's a design business, there's an entertainment and party planning business, and there's a product side to the whole thing. So tell us. You were just telling me earlier it's all a three ring circus. Tell me about that circus.
- [38:27]
C
Houses and parties is definitely a three ring circus. I launched my own business in 2011 doing interior design and event design. And actually it was the very glamorous Lauren Santo Domingo who was launching Moda Operandi at the same time. And we did a lot of parties for her. And she said, I think you really need to focus on the parties because there's so many amazing decorators with all different kinds of styles in New York City in particular. And you found your. Your niche. So I did parties starting in 2011 with interior design still, But I've really focused on the parties. And when Covid happened, there were no parties. And within probably 48 hours, I had lost 24 months worth of business. And I have an amazing team that has worked with me, some of them from the very beginning. And we were all gonna work at J. Crew or we were gonna start housesandparties.com so we started an e. Commerce site and I was like a southern bride with no fiance. But I had a file folder full of tear sheets. So I knew exactly what I wanted to sell. I had thought about doing this for a long time. I just honestly didn't have the guts until I had no choice, you know? And so we launched the e Commerce site October 1, 2020.
- [39:50]
A
So tell us then, the elements that actually make a fun party. What do we need to know about what's going to ensure a good time is had by all?
- [40:01]
C
Sure. Well, truth be told, I can sell you, you know, expensive linens and Murano vases until I'm blue in the face, but if your people are lame, your party will be lame. And so I that the most important thing is the reason to celebrate. And who you invite and having a very generous list with different kinds of people. Because at the essence of my brand is people and sharing and gathering and celebrating so that when we look back, our memories are not beige. To me, beige is the problem. And I bring the color.
- [40:39]
A
Oh, look at you going right to beige there. Wow. Okay, we have a lot to discuss us there. Right? Right.
- [40:47]
C
So. So I think. I think good people, different people. Offering your typical group a new friend is an incredible gift. Somebody that thinks differently or is from somewhere else or a different age or. Or whatever. And then other than that, dim the lights, pour strong drinks.
- [41:06]
A
I. In going through your book, it seems like strong drinks. Key, key, element, Key, crucial. There's a wonderful quote about your book from the fabulous Candice Bergen, whom I'm a huge fan of.
- [41:20]
C
Me too.
- [41:21]
A
Me too. And she gives this great quote that sort of goes on about how fun you are and what a great party. And she says, and I'm paraphrasing, she says that you threw a 70th birthday party for her that she is still hungover from. And she's actually 79 years old now, so it's lasted a long time.
- [41:40]
C
The greatest compliment from the most fabulous woman.
- [41:44]
A
That's pretty great. I sort of feel like you can just stop now. Right. I think you've won. Congratulations. That, and the foreword is written by Sofia Coppola. So, I mean, again, you're living large. You're living large, and you're obviously throwing some fun parties for some great people. So the guest list is crucial. It sounds like the drinks need to be flowing. Bring those lists lights down. I. I know you're not a fan of fake candles or things, right? Oh, no, those are horrible. What. What are some of the other.
- [42:15]
B
Right.
- [42:15]
A
What are some of the other things that. That people are just sort of doing wrong with. With. With parties or. Or holding themselves back from.
- [42:22]
C
You have to have a host. And when you're hosting a party, even if you're a luxury brand, you have to make thoughtful introductions to make sure that everyone is comfortable. So you can preach to invite different kinds of people and to mix up the crowd. But if you're not a gracious host by making people feel comfortable, I think that that's sort of a loss. And I also think that in bigger cities like New York, where people have small spaces, that there's a fear or people are intimidated to be. To entertain in their home. And I would encourage everyone, especially in this book that has so many fancy big parties. But I also showcased cocktail parties in my teen, tiny Apartment. I would encourage people to embrace their living spaces and have fun and not worry about imperfection because having someone in your home is a very intimate gesture and there's no better way to make a friend.
- [43:18]
A
Do you think that there's also an interior design element that people need to take into account when they're thinking about bringing people in and making them just feel comfortable?
- [43:30]
C
Yes, I think that that furniture should be comfortable. I like things that are warm. I like warm people. I like warm colors. I like warm environments. I mean, hell, I live in Savannah. And so personally, I like interiors that feel soft, that have curtains, that have beautiful carpets, that have rolled arms to where you can perch on the corner of a chair while someone else is sitting in it. I think that that as a host in your own home, you sort of kick off your shoes and you pass around compliments and cocktails with equal abandon. And if you have an environment that feels warm and cozy and welcoming, certainly no matter how fancy or dressy, to me, a rolled arm sofa or a low slung chair is much more inviting than like Amis van der Foe, you.
- [44:26]
A
Know, not a fan, then I take it.
- [44:31]
C
I just don't like harsh. Any harsh lighting, harsh interiors, harsh angles, sharp cocktail tables.
- [44:40]
A
Yeah.
- [44:40]
C
With glass tops that knock your knees.
- [44:43]
A
Right, right. All of those are a concern. So take me back to. To the business side of all of this and getting this business off the ground. So you joked it was either we were going to go and work for J. Crew or we were going to launch this business. Tell me what it took to get it off the ground and how it's evolved.
- [45:05]
C
I worked very, very hard to secure vendors during COVID which was very difficult because, remember all the incredible backlog of orders and the delays in shipping. And so. So I stalked the people at Puy 4 Cot in Herrand and Hermes Home in Genori. Like I did you. I was determined. I wrote letters, I sent gifts. And there's also a hesitancy for some of these larger brands to work with a company that's just online. They want brick and mortar stores. And so I went on a Miss Congeniality for houses and parties cancel campaign like you can't imagine. Or maybe you can.
- [45:53]
A
I might have a taste.
- [45:54]
C
And we won. We won. So we launched with all these beautiful brands that we were so proud to represent. But most important to houses and parties are the things that we make and the things that we commission from artists. And that is something that I learned to do from my days at scad. And I really believe in things that have a touch of the hand and that feels very warm to me. I think it brings a creativity and an unexpected twist that you don't get elsewhere. We sell seasonal collections so you could buy a party. Soup to nuts.
- [46:31]
A
I love this entrepreneurial story.
- [46:34]
B
Right?
- [46:34]
A
So I mean, and this is really that. And you've got a multifaceted business. There's some design work, there's the parties and this online business. And it's certainly not an easy time to be running an E comm business. And you and I were talking just briefly before we came on the air about tariffs and some of the challenges there. And I certainly know full well that Heron is coming from overseas, as are probably many of the brands you mentioned in some others, all coming from abroad. I'm assuming some price increases have been thrown your way and some other challenges. Tell me a little bit about the that.
- [47:16]
C
Well, we had a tenacious goal to manufacture most of what we sell for fall winter 2025, which was hideous timing as you can imagine. And we have been learning how to manufacture and how to do that over the years as we added different vendors. I am lucky that a lot of the people that we work with are in the United States. And that was a goal from the beginning before this sort of, you know, being put in a Vitamix, having my business put in a Vitamix, you know. But we continue to try to manufacture in the United States. They're fabulous artists here, like even Bob Christian, who is the illustrator that does a lot of our menu cards. I work with a silversmith, Allison Layton, that's in New York, Tracy Glover is in Rhode island that does all of our blown glass. But if anyone has an idea of someone that can and marble paper like the Italians en masse in a two week deadline, please let me know.
- [48:16]
A
Please let us know. Well, so tell me what's driving the party planning business these days, what people are looking for. And I want to really understand all of the elements that go into putting this together, how much time you need. And it sounds like as you've described, it's not dissimilar to an interior design project and the sort of thought and planning and scaling that goes into that.
- [48:43]
C
Yeah, we're creating little worlds just like you do with an interior design project. And the timing is totally different all the time. It could be three months, it could be a year. And it is just like decorating a room. We think about what's underfoot and what's overhead and the lighting and the different functions of different spaces. I'm a firm believer in parties, moving from room to room or from space to space. If you remember like weddings in college and having cocktails around tables and then dinner around an empty dance floor, that's kind of my worst nightmare. And we think of parties as a environmental installation.
- [49:28]
A
And I know that you've made reference to night. Not wanting to really get into too much detail about budgets with people, but I mean, you sort of suggested that there are Toyota Camrys and there are Rolls Royces. Right, right. And yes. And so we don't sell Camrys. Right, exactly, exactly. And so I got the sense that. But obviously there are budgets and from the looks of this book and some of these parties, quite elaborate ones. Do people have a sense of what it really is going to cost when they come to you? Is that a big educational process that you take them through?
- [50:07]
C
Well, I'm glad you asked that because Dennis, you've talked to so many people about, you know, social media or not social media or how do you bill or. I mean, I, I obviously have listened to every single podcast that you've done and it is a really hard process, even with an interior, but with a, a wedding or a huge event, unless you're working with a, a luxury brand or, you know, a bit business, a lot of times you have first time buyers. And my approach, maybe it's because I'm a straight shooting Texan, is to rip that band aid off and to be really straightforward and really honest about what it's going to cost. And we have a very transparent way of billing with a flat markup. So everyone knows how the sausage is made. I wish there were a better way to describe that, that you get it and that that really, really appeals to people who are serious and normally people who maybe have done an interiors project or have worked with a designer before and then other people are absolutely blown away and we don't hear from them again. Probably four to five clients come back to me and say, we're so sad that you didn't do our party, be it a 50th anniversary or a wedding, but we'd really like for you to do our interior. And I think that is because they just simply do not know what it's going to cost. But we do have ideas and we do have a lot of experience with all different kinds of parties and what we do is pull past budgets for similar scope of work and we tell them exactly what we think it'll cost.
- [51:41]
A
Tell me about team size, the scale of this operation. Help me understand.
- [51:47]
C
Yeah, I have about 12. Right now I have 12 full time employees and a few work remotely, but most of us are in Savannah, Georgia. The majority of our clients in our work are in New York City. So we travel back and forth and we have an office there. And I'm proud to say that most of the people that work for me have been with me for a long time. And that is another secret of success.
- [52:13]
A
Tell me about the book before we go. Why you wanted to do the book now, what your hope is for the book and. And is a hotel project going to finally come out of this? That's the question, Rebecca.
- [52:28]
C
I hope so. I hope so. The book is something that I have wanted to do for a long time. And we saved images of parties from social media from that monster that we feed for several years, so that there was images that are new and fresh. And what I like about the book is the price point and I like the idea that it will attract a new customer to housesandparties.com because we do have a very wide price point. And I think adding a $45 price point is a smart business decision for a different audience. And I hope that I will have a. A new group of people that maybe are excited to learn about entertaining and that will be inspired and maybe help.
- [53:22]
A
People to loosen up a little bit. I feel like sometimes we're taking things a little too seriously and you're all about fun and creativity and just helping people.
- [53:35]
C
I hope so. I appreciate you saying that. I do think that there's so many places to find beautiful tabletop. I mean, that is everywhere and we certainly are a destination for that. But I do think that as a host, it's your responsibility to set an atmosphere. And whether that requires a structured icebreaker or a crazy party hat or whether it's a work party, you still want people to have fun.
- [54:03]
A
Well, that is such a good message to leave it on. Rebecca, thank you. Thank you so much. I'm so thrilled to get to spend time. Congratulations on the book. Thank you again. It's a pleasure.
- [54:14]
C
Thank you, Dennis. I appreciate it.
- [54:20]
A
And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here, but before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Fred, I know what caught your eye, but go ahead.
- [54:30]
B
Yes, of course, the viral RH video caught my eye. So several dozen people sent this to you and me over the course of the past week. It's. It's a content creator named Sammy Tanner Cohen who does These kind of breakdowns on businesses. And she did a sort of series of quick videos around RH kind of breaking down, like, wow, this company is insane. Look at these private jets. And they've got, you know, $2.5 billion in debt. And isn't this crazy? And, you know, it was. It was just funny to see it because, you know, so. So many people, like, sent it to me being like, did you know this? And I was like, yes. Have you read anything I've written over the past five years? We do nothing here on the Thursday show except talk about how interesting and crazy RH is. But what was your reaction to these videos?
- [55:13]
A
Well, exactly, Fred. I mean, you and I have both written about this extensively, talked about it extensively on the show. And it was. None of this came as any surprise to us that, yes, they have borrowed several billion dollars and bought back shares and all the other things and the jets and the yacht and all of that. And so it was. It was interesting to see somebody from outside of our industry discover all of this for the first time.
- [55:37]
B
Discover the madness.
- [55:38]
C
Yeah.
- [55:39]
A
And be. And be blown away going, what? How is this. How is this possible? But. But that is why people always say, why are you always talking about rh? Just because this very thing. Look, look at how fascinating this is. Why wouldn't we be talking about this, for heaven's sakes? And we're not here to take sides or recall winners and losers. She wanted to point out that, oh, this report says they're very close to bankruptcy. Well, you know, what was right next to that one was Wayfair was the next one over. So.
- [56:06]
B
Right.
- [56:06]
A
If you think maybe they're both going into bankruptcy simultaneously, listen, that would be a pretty major story. But anyway, it was just interesting to see someone who's not used to covering that story be as surprised as she clearly was by everything. And apparently there's more reporting from her.
- [56:22]
B
To come on it.
- [56:22]
A
So we. All right, we will stay tuned.
- [56:24]
B
Right. No, it was difficult. It was difficult to react to it outside the context of my own ego being like, what? I knew this, but it was. It was certainly fun. And RH is, as you said, it's an interesting company, and she certainly made it a series of interesting videos. Anyway, what caught your eye this week, Dennis?
- [56:38]
A
What caught my eye was the announcement about friend of the show show, a former guest, Assad Serket, who was the editor in chief of El Decor. And we had heard that he was over in Italy and had been hoping to find a steady gig there, and now he has joined the Ad Italia team as its head of editorial content. So congratulations to Assad. That's great for him. He managed to figure out how to move to Italy and get a job and make him work. And I'll try to take the envy out of my voice, but it's hard, frankly.
- [57:10]
B
Maybe needs a podcast. Does Ad Italian need a breakdown of Italian design businesses? Because we're there.
- [57:16]
A
Well, I'm happy for him. Congratulations, Assad. And I look forward to the Italian coverage. All right, that's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings or take a workshop, visit us online@businessofhome.com if you want to get in touch with the show, write to us@podcastusinessofhome.com this episode was produced by Fred Nicholas and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend and we'll be back with you on Monday.