← Business of Home Podcast
Business of Home Podcast
The Thursday Show: Is design media too celebrity-obsessed? Plus: The Ticking Tent heads to Brooklyn
00:57:01
BOH executive editor Fred Nicolaus and host Dennis Scully discuss the biggest news in the design industry. Later, Christina Juarez and Ben Reynaert share the story of their shoppable event, The Ticking Tent.
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- [00:08]
Dennis Scully
This is Business of Home. I'm Dennis Scully and welcome to the Thursday show. Later on, I'll be speaking to Christina Juarez and Ben Reinart about their new event, the Ticking Tent. But first we're going to catch up on the news, including more fallout from Hurricane Helene, a renovation boom, and what.
- [00:26]
Fred Nicholaus
A controversial celebrity home Tour says about.
- [00:28]
Dennis Scully
The state of design media. To do all that, I'm joined by Business of Home's executive editor, Fred Nicholas. Hi, Fred.
- [00:35]
Christina Juarez
Hi, Dennis. How's it going?
- [00:37]
Dennis Scully
Well, pretty good. How you doing?
- [00:39]
Christina Juarez
Pretty good, myself. Happy 400th episode of the Business of Home podcast.
- [00:43]
Fred Nicholaus
Holy smokes.
- [00:44]
Dennis Scully
Is that right?
- [00:45]
Christina Juarez
I forgot to FedEx you a cake. I apologize.
- [00:49]
Dennis Scully
There's still time. Don't worry.
- [00:50]
Christina Juarez
And I'll be seeing you at High Point very shortly. Just a quick reminder shill for listeners. We'll be doing a live version of the Thursday show on Saturday in in Surya's showroom at High Point. So if you're going to be down there, please stop by and watch us try and get through it. I mean, get through it masterfully.
- [01:10]
Dennis Scully
Apologies. Exactly. Watch us try and figure out what that's going to be when we do it. It's going to be great. Can't wait.
- [01:15]
Christina Juarez
It will be really fun. And we're going to have Satya from Satya Tiwari from Surya there with us as well as potentially a special guest. So you'll have to show up to find out who that is. In the meantime, though, let's look back. On Monday's episode, an interview with Ruggable founder Geneva Bell. Quite the entrepreneur's journey.
- [01:31]
Dennis Scully
Quite the harrowing tale of this poor woman slogging away for years trying to bring, I mean, I mean, as we wrote in the descriptions of it, I mean, if you ever thought that Ruggable was an overnight success, let me tell you the 10 year journey of Geneva Bell. Facing one disappointment after another, but sticking with it in a story of grit and determination. And for everyone who has tried to bring an idea to market, this is a show that you want to listen to.
- [02:06]
Christina Juarez
I have to confess that I was one of those people who thought, oh, Ruggable. That was probably sprung up in a meeting between a direct to consumer entrepreneur and a venture capitalist and they launched it overnight and spent a billion dollars and it just appeared overnight. But that is very much not the case. It's a very real story with a lot of very real setbacks. Frankly, I came away from the conversation really admiring Geneva for her stick to itiveness, to stick to one for a decade and have it not really work out for most of that decade, or not really get the liftoff that you're going for and to be in so much debt the entire time. I mean, it's a real story of what it actually takes to get these things off the ground. And I second your recommendation if you've ever dreamed of launching your own product. I mean, this episode might frankly turn you off, but I think it's a realistic picture of what it actually takes.
- [02:55]
Dennis Scully
Well, and also so interesting that, as she points out, turns out that just working really hard isn't enough. And that was an interesting lesson that she shared as well. There was a lot to learn from the conversation. It was the first time she was ever doing a podcast and so she was a little nervous about it. And I'm so glad that she could share the story with us. It's a really inspiring tale and I hope people will listen and enjoy.
- [03:24]
Fred Nicholaus
All right, we're going to take a.
- [03:25]
Dennis Scully
Quick break and then we'll get into the news.
- [03:32]
Fred Nicholaus
This podcast is sponsored by Leloi, who's headed to High Point Market with all new rugs, pillows and wall art for retailers and designers and for all styles. Stop by showroom D320 to see introductions from Leloy and Amber Lewis, Magnolia Home by Joanna Gaines, Chris Loves Julia and Rifle Paper Company plus newly added One of a Kinds and special events with Gene Stauffer and Chris loves Julia. Visit loyrugs.com to make both in person and virtual appointments. That's L O l o I rugs.com and follow them on Instagram and TikTok at leloy rugs. This podcast is sponsored by Isla Porter, whose mission is to create a little more space in everyone's lives. Whether your client needs more functional space in their home or whether you're a designer who needs more breathing room to let your creativity flow. Isla Porter wants to support your business and creativity with its AI powered platform. The platform manages the technical details of kitchen design and the result is custom cabinetry made with real American hardwoods, available in more than 20 door styles and 80 finishes, giving you more time, space and options to create beautiful and functional kitchens for your clients. Let Isla Porter take care of the custom millwork and technical design. Visit islaporter.com to make space for more. That's is.
- [05:21]
Dennis Scully
And we're back.
- [05:22]
Fred Nicholaus
First up, Hurricane Helene Fred yes, almost.
- [05:26]
Christina Juarez
A month after the deadly storm swept through the Southeast, we're still learning new details about Helene's effect on the industry. This week, Home News now reported that E.J. victor has delayed production due to flooding at its North Carolina facility, likely, unfortunately, until January. I was somewhat surprised by this one. How about you, Dennis?
- [05:43]
Dennis Scully
I was surprised as well and saddened I that E.J. victor has a relatively new CEO that's only been there for about a year, and he's already got a lot on his plate trying to, what a year? Some of the marketing efforts and everything else. And here we are in all the challenges for High Point companies that we've talked about at length. And then suddenly there's two feet of water in the facility and all sorts of inventory damage. And we should talk about what happened there.
- [06:13]
Christina Juarez
Yeah, I should say a little bit of a mea kapa on our part, because a month ago when we were talking Hurricane Helene, at the time, I hadn't heard that many reports from anyone on the furniture side of the industry, anyone with a big manufacturing facility, that they'd been hit particularly hard by Helene. There was power outages and some employees had difficulties. But I never felt like it had really impacted the big manufacturers, but clearly it did. And it seemed like what happened here is that their facility, which is a little more west, had been flooded. And I don't think it destroyed any of their equipment, but it basically destroyed a lot of inventory. And so now, of course, they're behind in making all that inventory that needs to get out the door. So that's why. Why they've hit a pause on doing new production. And it is, frankly, this is affecting designers. I'm hopeful that some designers and their clients will understand the context around it. This is not just arbitrary delays, but it is having a real impact out there in the industry for sure. So hopefully they'll be able to pick up speed quickly.
- [07:09]
Fred Nicholaus
Absolutely.
- [07:10]
Dennis Scully
I know, as you say, for many, it's going to feel like, oh, here we go again. What's the new reason for the delay? But I think hopefully everyone will understand that no one wanted to be in this position. And it is terribly unfortunate. And this is, as I say, a company that is trying to take on a great deal. And we wish Mr. Oliver well in getting this back on track. They will be at High Point, and so we look forward to seeing them and hopefully supporting them.
- [07:40]
Christina Juarez
Yeah, agreed. And I think that it's just a good. I think it's a good reminder just that the more information that's out there, the better. I think sometimes companies are not. They're not eager to share, like, hey, we're behind in production, but I think it's, you know, in this case, I think it's probably so helpful for designers to explain to their clients why this is happening. It's a good reminder that transparency around stuff like this is a good idea. And as you said, EJ Vector is a really interesting company. They used to produce for Ralph Lauren. I know they work with Alfredo Paredes. They do a lot of high end stuff. They produce a lot domestically, which is not always the case for a lot of these companies. And so I'm hopeful that this is a temporary bump in the road and that we'll say hi to them at High Point and hope for a better 2025.
- [08:19]
Dennis Scully
Absolutely. And as you, I mean, the Alfredo Paredes introductions are one of the things I often look most forward to at High Point. It's a pretty chic collection. And so I'm hoping that soon everything will be resolved. Moving on, we're going to talk about a remodeling boom. This week, the Wall Street Journal reported on some encouraging signs in the world of home renovation. According to a Harvard study, annual spending on repair and remodeling is projected to reach $477 billion this time next year, which is near an all time high. High. Big numbers. Fred, what do you think?
- [08:55]
Christina Juarez
Yeah, well, I feel like we've been talking once again, we called it the Wall Street Journal catch up. No, I mean, it's sort of an interesting thing. The way that the Journal framed this story is sort of interesting because they talked about how we're coming out of what they referred to as a home renovation slump, which is sort of interesting because home renovation spending has been on this up and to the right trajectory ever since the economy recovered from 2008. And so the highest year on record was 2023, not that long ago. It's just that the way that home renovations are funded often is that people refinance their home and use that money to fund a renovation project. And because interest rates have been going up so high, people have been a little bit gun shy about taking out a new loan. And so that kind of stalls out the market for renovations. But the fundamental demand is very much there. And now that the Fed has decided to cut rates, people are clearly spending and the signs are there.
- [09:47]
Dennis Scully
What we certainly know is that many existing homes were not being put on the market. So many people, people are still locked into these very low interest rates. And that is a situation that is going to continue for quite a while, which is why it's very important to rethink a little bit how designers are thinking about remodeling. Versus their client perhaps selling their home and looking at this in a different way, because I think this market is going to be very much driven by people figuring out clever ways to take money out of their home and spend it in a different way. Right.
- [10:28]
Christina Juarez
I mean, that's such a good point. I mean, housing prices are at an all time crazy high. Like home equity is $35 trillion, which is up almost, it's almost up 100% since 2019. And that's a lot of money that people are going to deploy, they're going to take out, they're going to refinance, and they take some of that value out and put it towards improving their home. Because as you said, they're not going to move on, or at least some of them are not going to move on to, you know, a mortgage that is in some cases double, even though that number is trickling downwards. And the point about designers is exactly the right one. I think, a lot of, you know, there's going to be new homes built, people are going to move. Yes. But I do think there is a huge, there's going to be a huge growth and renovations in those kinds of projects. And I think designers would be well advised to think about their business less in how can I help my clients relocate? How can I help my clients build a new home? And more, how can I help my clients, you know, make the most out of a renovation project? And how can I make that a profitable project for me? You know, some people are already set up that way, but if you're not, now is a good time to figure it out.
- [11:25]
Dennis Scully
No, I agree. And I think that this is going to move slowly. So I think there's plenty of time to really think about that model that designers want to create for this. Many people are waiting on the sidelines and there are big opportunities in just recognizing that people have a lot of money saved up in their homes and designers should get a piece of that. Fred? I think.
- [11:49]
Christina Juarez
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. Agree.
- [11:52]
Dennis Scully
Okay, next up, let's revisit the world of engineered stone, shall we? Fred?
- [11:56]
Christina Juarez
Yes. A few weeks ago we talked about a wave of silicosis cases in the lawsuits that followed. This week, the LA Times has a slightly more optimistic take about how companies like Cosentino and Caesarstone are looking to develop safer product. Knock on wood. This is potentially, again, a more optimistic development in this rather depressing story. What'd you think?
- [12:16]
Dennis Scully
Well, exactly. Safer product question mark. I mean, that seemed to be sort of the tone a little bit.
- [12:22]
Christina Juarez
Yes, yeah, yeah. I think we can sort of get into that in a little bit. I mean, I think, you know, again, just to. I'm sure people are relatively aware of what we're talking about here, but engineered stone quartz countertops, when you cut them in unsafe conditions, workers can develop this horrible disease called silicosis. And there's a lot of lawsuits and questions about regulation around this. And a lot of these companies, you know, that have gotten, frankly, quite rich off this boom. I mean, engineered stone is a $25 billion global business. They're looking to find a way to get ahead of this crisis and develop a. A product that's ideally safer for people to cut. I mean, one thing that, before we even get into that, that just sort of jumped out at me from this story is that the reporter talked to a contractor in la and the guy said, in all my years doing projects, I have never, ever heard anyone mention, oh, the danger of quartz. And the one person who did was a client from Australia, where quartz is illegal, or like high silica quartz is illegal. That really jumped out to me and explained why this problem is so intractable.
- [13:19]
Dennis Scully
Well, exactly. And it's been interesting that so many people have shared these stories with us, wanting more to get out there about how serious this. This is. And I'm glad that we've been talking about this because it is such a serious issue. And as we talked about a couple of weeks back, it's. It's affecting a population that often doesn't have a strong voice or strong backers behind them. And through these lawsuits, we're just learning so much more about how terribly frightening and debilitating these issues are around silicosis. And people need to be aware of this. And I want the marketplace to do what it does and correct this situation.
- [14:04]
Christina Juarez
Cosentino has a line that has something like 40% or less silica or 10% or less silica. Classic quartz has like 90% or more. And Caesarstone has a line that's allegedly less than 1% silica. So it was interesting. The reporter spoke to several scientists, and I think a lot of them, to be fair, were pretty optimistic. They were saying, look, this seems to be safer than what's on the market today. But the danger, whenever you have a chemical or a product that is harmful in some way, is that companies rush to try and replace it with something else because they obviously don't want to be regulated or sued out of existence. But because they're getting a new product out into the marketplace, it's not always clear that the new One is so much safer than the last one, or that you're not introducing some new problem. This data is not out there yet. So I don't know. It was interesting.
- [14:51]
Dennis Scully
Exactly. And that was very much what I got from hearing these scientists. They sort of suggested, well, actually, now that we're paying a lot more attention to this product, what else is the problem with all of this? And that certainly seemed to be one of the risks of all of this getting so much attention. Even though many are trying to improve the product, is it something that can really be improved enough? And that's the concern.
- [15:18]
Christina Juarez
Ironically enough, I think that gets to what these companies have wanted, which is harsher regulations on the shops that cut the stone. Because I think their point is that if these workshops were operating safely, then we wouldn't be having these problems to begin with. But maybe it's not an either or here. Maybe we need regulations around workshops. We need a safer product. We just need more attention, more ideas. I think it's right to put a lot of scrutiny on these companies for this issue, but I'm also hopeful and feeling optimistic that they will produce something that's safer because it does create jobs and opportunities. And I hope they can figure it out.
- [15:50]
Dennis Scully
Absolutely. And clearly it's a highly desirable product. So the question is, can this daylight that's being shown upon this whole issue force the changes that are necessary here? And can a safer product and a safer process come out of this? I hope so. As I say, I'm glad we're talking about it because. Because as you raised the point earlier, so many people just still aren't aware of this issue. And it is very important.
- [16:16]
Fred Nicholaus
Up next, Design Media.
- [16:19]
Dennis Scully
This week, Fred, you turned your attention to Architectural Digest, where a tour of reality star Yolanda Hadid's home sparked a wave of snarky commentary online. What can you tell us?
- [16:32]
Christina Juarez
Did you catch this one when it hit the website last?
- [16:36]
Dennis Scully
I didn't catch it at first, but like you, I had some people send it to me and it was a lot of heated discussion over this.
- [16:46]
Christina Juarez
Yeah. So, I mean, just to sort of set the stage here. So, you know, as we've been talking about ad published, the home or the Texas ranch home of Yolanda Hadid, who, if you're not familiar with is. Was a star on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and is the mother of Gigi and Bella Hadid, someone who's not really my pop culture wheelhouse is a lot nerdier. So I was not super aware of her comings and goings. But this, you know, that's who she is. And when AD published her home, or I guess her Texas ranch house, there was, there was a lot of snarky commentary about it on their Instagram page. And kind of what got me into it is that a couple people sent me a link to this project and they sent it to me for totally different reasons. One person was like, oh, this is an example of how AD is so celebrity obsessed and design media only wants to publish you if you have a famous client. And another person was like, this is horrible. These comments are completely cruel. What's wrong with America? So it was, it seemed to be sort of a flash point and generating a lot of opinions. And so, you know, I went meandering in search of some opinions on this particular project that popped up.
- [17:49]
Dennis Scully
Well, and I mean, in the piece at first you were talking about, is AD or is design media in general celebrity obsessed or any more celebrity obsessed than they have always been? What did you find?
- [18:03]
Christina Juarez
Well, I kind of want to turn the question back on you because full disclosure for listeners, you're the law. Lovely Mrs. Scully used to work at AD and you've got slightly longer in the tooth in the design media world and by only a few years. What's your take on this? First of all, is it true? And B, have people always been complaining about this? What do you think?
- [18:23]
Dennis Scully
Well, I mean, it's interesting. And you referenced Paige Rentz, the former editor in chief, in your piece. And listen, Paige Rentz back in the day, who was the very powerful editor in chief of Architectural Digest back in the day, when I think editors had a lot more power and authority than they than they do today. She was very calculating about the use of celebrity coverage. And there may have been eight or nine homes of Cher that she put on the COVID And she said, yes, if Cher has another house, I will absolutely publish that too, because that sells on the newsstand and that helps helps to pay the bills. But as you and I were talking about recently, the difference at that time was that Architectural Digest was probably about three times as thick as it is now. And so there were a lot of other projects in there from the greats of the day that would sort of balance out this mix. And I think part of why this feels so extreme today is it's a much thinner magazine with a different kind of group of celebrities that are often on the COVID And so it feels very different than it did in those days. And I will also point out Page Rentz and Architectural Digest for years did the Hollywood at Home issue. And those were among the most popular issues, but they were often done with, oh, look, here's an old timey movie star from the golden age of Hollywood kind of thing. And so the coverage was just very different.
- [19:55]
Christina Juarez
Yeah, it's interesting to go through some of those old issues. I do think it is a little bit of a fallacy, the idea that there was this golden age where Architectural Digest did not care at all about celebrity. Because I was doing a little archive digging and I was like, what's the first time they published? Even in the 20s, they published the home of Zeppo Marx and Buster Keaton. So it's not like AD has never published celebrities or never relied on star power to drive the business side. And as you pointed out, it was just, you know, in the 70s and 80s, there was sort of this kind of elite intellectual sheen. It was like Gore Vidal's house and Edward Kennedy's house. And, you know, now honestly, the magazine is a little bit more like populist. It's like, you know, celebrity athletes, celebrities from music and tv. And so I do think to some degree, it's maybe less about the volume of celebrities, but the kinds of celebrities who are in ad, which is another wrinkle in what I actually think is sort of a complicated story. It's not as simple as, oh, AD is just obsessed with celebrities. That's all there is to it.
- [20:58]
Dennis Scully
No, and a social media didn't exist when Paige Rentz was the editor in chief and they weren't doing video house tours. So the whole package now of the way these projects are rolled out on Instagram, on YouTube, then they're on the COVID There's a whole parade of different media that comes out about these projects. And you see and hear this person in a very different way than you did in the past when they were.
- [21:26]
Fred Nicholaus
Just on the pages of the magazine.
- [21:28]
Christina Juarez
Yeah, I think that's such a good point. And I mean, I think social media just changes so much about that balance that you could maybe cultivate in the 70s and 80s. You know, even the way that, like Instagram distributes content affects this conversation so much. Because if you look at AD's Instagram feed, they publish a lot of stuff. They published like a profile of Sigmund Freud's home. I mean, how more intellectual and high minded do you want to get? But Instagram rewards engagement and likes and clicks and all that. Of course, the celebrities get a lot of likes and clicks. And so Instagram delivers that to people who follow AD's account more. And so if you're just sort of casually looking at it, you may come away with the impression that AD only publishes celebrity homes because that's all you're seeing on your Instagram feed. And maybe you don't get around to reading your issue this month. So there's all these different ways that Instagram kind of scrambles what has historically been a relatively stable, you know, balance between celebrities and the idea around, you know, producing a very high minded design publication. That it's just, it's complicated, you know, and of course I understand, you know, why designers are somewhat upset and annoyed by this because you know, every celebrity project that's, you know, a reality star who designed their own ranch house, that's a slot that a designer doesn't get, that a working designer doesn't get. And I think a lot of people, you know, perceive publications like AD as being about the design industry, about celebrating the, the creativity and talent. And of course it still is, it's just, it's, you know, it's just a difficult time in media and design media in particular. And so, you know, I kind of went into this story thinking, okay, this is going to be sort of a funny thing about this reality star and haha, but it's complicated and I'm of course sympathetic to everyone in this equation. It's a weird moment in media.
- [23:10]
Fred Nicholaus
Absolutely.
- [23:11]
Dennis Scully
And as we said, celebrity coverage has always helped to pay bills, period. That has been forever, thus. And it just seems more extreme today and in part because as we've talked about, it just, it comes at you in a very different way than it used to in the past.
- [23:30]
Christina Juarez
Yeah, and the other thing that's kind of weirdly new and frankly a little depressing is these comments. You know, I mean, I think like, you know, certainly many people who sent me this project took some schadenfreude style joy over, oh, here's this Real Housewife celebrity. And look at all these funny comments. And like these comments are funny, but there is also kind of like a cruelty to the discourse on social media. And it's not always a celebrity who's getting roasted. You know, I was talking to a few editors at design publications and you know, several of them brought up stories about, yeah, this happens and it's not always a famous person. And it's just like, I don't know, it's, I left the piece thinking I don't know what to do about this because you know, none of these publications have an incentive to turn off comments like why turn off engagement? That's what the Platforms want. But it does seem like it sort of coarsens the dialogue around design in a way that's a little unfortunate.
- [24:19]
Dennis Scully
No, I agree. And the anonymity gives people the freedom to speak in a way that they wouldn't were they speaking directly to that person. And so I'm so glad that you wrote about the tone and how people, I mean, great to have a laugh and listen. This project is hardly the best work that's ever been shown in Architectural Digest, to be sure, but there's a way to kind of have a laugh and then a way to tip over into being hurtful, cruel, and unkind. And that certainly happened on more than one occasion in the thousands of comments that were both on Instagram and on YouTube. And if you thought that people got worked up about that project. Fred, let's talk about overhead lighting, shall we? I also get pretty worked up about.
- [25:05]
Christina Juarez
This, an even more controversial subject. So this week for the Washington Post, Rachel Kurgis, former guest of the show, took a look up at the ceiling for a deep dive into why celebrities, influencers, designers, and just about everyone seems to have a problem with overhead lighting. And Dennis, I understand you've taken to Instagram to do a little listener poll. What do people think? What did designers think about overhead lighting?
- [25:27]
Dennis Scully
You put it up and within moments people say, oh, my God, hate it. It ought to be banned. Why is it even still exists? And Ann McDonald said, yes, you gotta get rid of those strong, harsh overhead lights. Caitlin McGauley weighed in and said, lamps and any way to control it. And interestingly, another person wrote in, Robin Milch Anderson wrote in who's an American living over in Europe right now and who's noticed that so few European homes that she's been to even have overhead lighting? And it's all about lamps and sconces and perhaps even some candles in some cases, and how much more pleasurable that is. Interestingly, Brian Paquette weighed in to say, calm down, everyone, calm down. Don't get all crazy about this. The truth is, today we can control all of this. So listen, is full power overhead lighting too harsh? Absolutely. You need to bring that down. But, but also remember, you've got to adjust the room to a little bit of overhead lighting, a little bit of table lighting, and it can all work. And don't everyone go crazy, because these days there's plenty of ways to control it. And I think so often that's the issue. It's just too harsh. But if you can dim it down and mix it, that seems to be the solution. What do you think?
- [26:52]
Christina Juarez
Yeah, it's funny, I was thinking about this in my own home and I was. I almost forget that we even have overhead lighting because I just never turn it on when that light comes on. I'm like, oh, that exists. I forgot about that. It is. I mean, I think it is such a perennial hot topic. Not because, as you just said, that it's fundamentally bad, but it's just. It's done bad. Often it's done by, you know, a builder who's kind of just putting in the generic, you know, quote unquote boob light that everyone makes fun of on social media. It's, you know, they put in a, you know, 80,000 watt LED bulb that it's like an airplane landing light in the top of your living room and it makes everybody really look weird and there's glare in your peripheral vision, as Rachel was pointing out in the piece. So there's a million reasons to not like it, but I think it's mostly because it is historically not done with a lot of thought.
- [27:40]
Dennis Scully
A lot of people felt that there's a time and a place, but that it is. Can be very unflattering light. And so many people pointed out, think of your guests. You want them to look good, right? Don't expose them to that harsh light. So that's an important point.
- [27:57]
Christina Juarez
I couldn't help but think about the rise of rechargeable lighting or the kind of stuff done by our friends at Pookie. The buzziness of that category speaks to this desire to at all cost. Let's get away from overhead lighting. We'll carry it with us, we'll put it everywhere in the house, but we just don't want that. Here's a solution. I don't know. This was just a fun piece. It's a reminder that if you have the budget for it, hire a lighting designer because they can bring a lot of value to a project.
- [28:25]
Dennis Scully
Be vigilant, to be sure. And somebody asked me recently what one of the most interesting developments in the home world is. And I pointed out rechargeable lighting I do think is so interesting. And I love that it's caught on in the way that it has. And we have a couple of different Pookies in the house that serve a very meaningful role. And I'm sure other brands are available. Exactly. No, but it does change the dynamic, and so I'm glad that that has caught on. And there's a lot of innovation coming out around that, so hopefully that will take care of this. Overhead lighting issue and resolve it. All right, that's it for the news, but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com including a look at Athena Calderon's new collection for Crate and Barrel and a roundup of November's Can't Miss Design events. We'll be back in a minute, but.
- [29:18]
Fred Nicholaus
First, a quick break. We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about Isla Porter. Making Space for More isn't always about square footage, ceiling height or physical constraints. Rather, it's about opening up the possibilities of what designers can accomplish when their schedule allows for more creativity and innovation. Islay Porter's collection of bespoke cabinetry and AI powered technology is here to improve your kitchen design process. Islay Porter takes care of the technical details and craftsmanship, from providing elevations and 3D renderings to offering a wide array of door styles and finishes, all made with the highest quality materials, giving you more time and variety to create stunning spaces for your clients. See how Isla Porter is designing differently. Follow along on Instagram. Theisla Porter that's T H E I S L A P O R T E R We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about Leloi, who recently introduced Love a commitment to doing good for their community, industry and environment through this initiative. Lalloy has recently worked in India to promote female education, donate a thousand tree saplings and provide free eye exams and glasses to hundreds of craftspeople. Learn more@leloyrugs.com that's L O L O I rugs.com and follow them on Instagram at the LOI rugs.
- [31:07]
Dennis Scully
And we're back. I am joined now by the co founders of the Ticking Tent Event, Christina Juarez and Benjamin Reinart. Thank you both so much for joining me.
- [31:18]
Ben Reinart
Thank you for having us, Dennis.
- [31:20]
Geneva Bell
Great to be here.
- [31:20]
Dennis Scully
Dennis well, it's such a treat to get to talk with you both and there's a lot of excitement about the Ticking Tent Event. We should back up a little bit before we dive into it and talk about the two of you and how this all came to be. Both of you come from slightly different places in the design world. Ben was in media, would you say? Ben and Christina in communications, and you've both sort of transitioned a little bit in this bench. Tell us quickly the transition that you made.
- [31:58]
Geneva Bell
You're absolutely right. I worked in publishing and media for the past 10 or 12 years and one of my first jobs was working as an editorial assistant at Traditional Home and that's where I first met Christina, funny enough. So we've known and worked with each other for close to a decade now. And just this past year, after working for various magazines like House Beautiful, Elle Decor, Ad Pro Domino, and in this past year, after going out on my own, we decided that it would be really fun to explore this concept.
- [32:38]
Dennis Scully
Okay, Christina, you want to take it from there?
- [32:41]
Ben Reinart
Yeah. I mean, we were actually having lunch one rainy Friday at Pastis, talking about how the industry has changed from Ben's side as an editor and creative and content creator, and from my side as a publicist. And, you know, offhandedly, one of us said, God, don't you wish we can turn our passion for shopping and the thrill of the hunt into a business? And then we kind of got talking and said, wait a minute, we're not the only one with this passion. We're surrounded every day with people who love to shop either for their careers as interior designers or for their love of beautiful things. So how do we turn that into a business? And it was kind of born there. And Dale Wood, formerly of Veranda, was at this lunch and somehow we started talking about names. And Ben, I don't even know how we landed on the ticking tent.
- [33:55]
Geneva Bell
We all love stripes, and I think everyone here can attest to, you know, finding the perfect mattress ticking in France or, you know, sourcing like the best cabana stripes. And we all just kind of looked at each other and thought and said to each other, let's put everything under one tent. It'll be ticking and it'll be all of our favorite vendors, artisans and small brands. And we'll bring everyone together and it'll hopefully bring like minded creatives under one tent to shop till they drop.
- [34:34]
Ben Reinart
And, you know, when we thought about this idea, we immediately said, okay, we need to identify some devil's advocates who are people that we feel were great innovators with a great eye for beautiful things that we can run this by. So they could shut this idea down immediately. So the first two people we thought of was Derek Caponigro, and Schumacher has been our sponsor from day one. And we called Dara. We summed up the idea in 10 minutes, and within five minutes she said, yes, I'm in. And we're like, wait, what? Really? Unbeknownst to us at the time, Benny was thinking the same thing. And they were planning their rollout of Schumacher stores promoting artisanal product outside of the Schumacher umbrella. So anyway, it was on her mind too. And then we called the master of all masters Michael Bruno, whose IDE revolutionized the digital aspect of all of this.
- [35:46]
Dennis Scully
The original founder of first dibs, we.
- [35:48]
Ben Reinart
Should say for people who might not know.
- [35:50]
Dennis Scully
Yeah.
- [35:51]
Ben Reinart
And he not only said it was a great idea, but he offered his location, and we said, great. And, you know, it's funny because Schumacher didn't actually have a ticking fabric. They had a stripe, but it wasn't ticking, per se. So Dara not only got on board, but developed a fabric to generously give us hundreds of thousands of yards of fabric to make that crazy traveling tent and to make all those beautiful slit covers for the tables that really have become the visual signature of the ticking tent.
- [36:32]
Dennis Scully
Ben, long time followers of your social media have seen you on many a weekend filling what appears to be vast station wagons full of bats, baskets, and plates, and candelabra. I mean, yes.
- [36:46]
Geneva Bell
Oh, no. I'm caught.
- [36:48]
Dennis Scully
Yes. Yes.
- [36:49]
Ben Reinart
Busted.
- [36:50]
Dennis Scully
So one did wonder, where is all of this vast inventory ultimately going? And you mentioned Dale earlier. She would often be your sidekick in these endeavors. And there just were all these vehicles being filled up with. We weren't sure if they were props, if they were, if you just had an accumulation problem, if there was just something. Honestly, we couldn't tell what was going on. But it seems like this has led to what you're doing now.
- [37:20]
Geneva Bell
Tell me about that hoarder without border 100%. And it's all of those things you mentioned, sadly. And the thrill of finding something really special is contagious. And we feel that this event, the ticking tent, it's sort of become like a community gathering of sorts as well. And I think shopping is so much more fun with a buddy. And we felt that, you know, it was so fun for us to do during the pandemic, especially when we all had a lot more time and we all had a lot more flexibility. And we ultimately feel like we're trying to just recreate that mood and feeling of really discovering something new and finding a really unique and special object. And whether that's for a client or for your own home, those are the pieces that tell your story, and those are the pieces that make a space really special. So we love that. And anything that we can do to sort of bring those super special pieces forward, we just think is so fun.
- [38:37]
Ben Reinart
And it's kind of no frills. Dennis, you were there in the spring. I was a no frills shopping event. People are there for one reason, and it's to beat your buddy to that perfect fine.
- [38:51]
Dennis Scully
To risk the. To risk the friendship and grab that Piece first before you. Before your friend. Yeah. Well, I'm curious. Tell us the experience of the first event, how you thought about it, and how you've worked on creating this. Now, second event with what I assume you learned from the first time out, because this one seems even bigger and better in many ways. But tell me what you learned.
- [39:18]
Ben Reinart
What we learned from last year is because it was such a frenzied day of shopping and there were crowds and people were moving fast and furious, there was no moment for the vendors to meet the sponsors, to meet the press, and to kind of internally get to know each other. And we created that moment this year. The night before we're having a moment where the press can come in, no shopping and preview all of the vendors and the sponsors. Big names like Schumacher Vaughan, Benjamin Moore, Curry and Company can get to know the vendors who are selling their wares before the day takes, you know, over itself. And we also learned that the Benjamin Moore Bouquet Bar was a huge hit and we had to do it again.
- [40:14]
Dennis Scully
Well, and you should tell people what that is because that did seem to be a big hit.
- [40:17]
Geneva Bell
The Bouquet Bar was really just intended to be a fun little giveaway that everyone would be able to get a little nosegay made either by Carolyn or Robert to take home after the event. It really turned into like a huge moment. And it was the talk of the event in March. Everyone was asking us if we would do it again. So everyone has graciously agreed to do it again. We're working with the New York Flower Group and Grace Rose Farm, which is an incredible rose farm in California, to put this all together under Benjamin Moore's umbrella.
- [40:58]
Ben Reinart
And instead of giving away the bouquets this year, we're going to charge $10 a bouquet and Benjamin Moore is going to give the full proceeds of that to the Design Leadership Foundation.
- [41:11]
Dennis Scully
It seems as though the list of participants has grown. Were there some people that were taking a wait and see approach with your first one and they saw how successful it was and, and thought they wanted to jump in?
- [41:26]
Ben Reinart
Yeah, probably. So this year, you know, we have a lot of repeat performances by our really, you know, successful vendors. This year we have Bunny Williams home coming in with some of her antiques. We have Casa Branca, who's new this year. DLN will be selling, taking a booth to sell their beautiful book, the Living Room. Christopher Colley Antiques. He is a little shop in the East Village and he's coming out and doing our show and we're so thrilled.
- [42:00]
Geneva Bell
And we have some exciting new vendors coming from the uk like Louise Rowe, who founded Charland England. So we're so excited that she'll be selling her goods here in the US And Toast is another brand that we love that is actually started as a fashion brand but now does home.
- [42:23]
Ben Reinart
And we have a couple new sponsors in addition to Schumacher and Benjamin Moore. We have Vaughan, we have Curry and Company. Vaughan is sponsoring our cocktail party the night before and Curry and company is sponsoring our Early Bird breakfast.
- [42:43]
Dennis Scully
Let's tell people exactly where this is and how you ended up in this particular space in Williamsburg. So tell us the space that you're in now. As you mentioned, it's a much bigger space than you were in before.
- [42:55]
Geneva Bell
It's a beautiful photo studio called Industria and they have a location in the West Village and they have one new studio that's much bigger in Williamsburg. So we're really excited to be hosting in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. It's on a beautiful little block just off of Domino park and the east river near the Bedford stop on the L, just below the Williamsburg Bridge. So we're really excited to work with them. And they have a 10,000 square foot space. All of the details at the location are on our website, thetickingtent.com and the event is Saturday, November 2nd, from 9am till 4pm so it's one day only and it's a quick and easy trip from the city.
- [43:46]
Dennis Scully
I mean, as we've suggested, the first event had an enormous response. Clearly you're feeling very, very positive about this one. I wonder what you both think about why this is resonating so much. And Ben, Christina was talking about your edited eye in all of this is certainly an element. And all joking aside, people who know what a successful shopper you are and I think have long coveted many of the things that you were stuffing into your station wagon at the time. Now they're probably thinking I get a chance to buy some of the things that he's accumulated over time. But I just wonder why you think these live shopping events are drawing so much attention.
- [44:33]
Geneva Bell
I think it has so much to do about connection and really understanding the provenance of something that is, you know, from the early 19th century. And you get to sort of understand where a dealer had sort of found that piece and like why it was interesting to them. Or you get to meet and connect with an artisan who's making beautiful pottery or tabletop and really kind of understanding like their motivations. And those personal connections always tend to resonate when you have friends over and someone notices something or if you're shooting a project, those special objects always kind of stand out in the photograph. So I think building up those connections, expanding your network and your relationships with makers and designers kind of just all goes into making not only your space more beautiful, but your projects as well.
- [45:36]
Ben Reinart
And there's a moment of education there also where the vendor, the maker can actually talk to the consumer. Whether it's a designer or you know, someone like myself that just is a hoarder without borders. It's not just as transactional like you put it in your cart, click check out. There's a moment where, tell me about this piece, where is it from? What's the provenance or how is it made? So there's a moment for education and the transference of information or inspiration from the creator to the consumer to the shopper.
- [46:21]
Geneva Bell
And I can't, and I can't tell you how many times I've seen people order things online and they arrive and they're like, oh, this is not the right size or oh, that's not the right, the finish that I thought it was going to, going to be. And when you're really sort of seeing things in person, holding them, like seeing how the light hits them in real life, I think you get a much better sense of whether or not a piece is going to fit into your project or into your home. And it's a lot easier to pull the trigger.
- [46:56]
Ben Reinart
You know, I hear it's these pop up shops and trunk shows are trending. We got a call from a writer from the Financial Times weekend section, House and Home and she's coming out with, they're coming out with an article in the coming weeks about how a lot of these UK brands want to test the US market but don't want to make a commitment to sign with a showroom or take a retail space. So they're coming over, shipping their product like Louise Rowe from Charland, England is doing and testing the market and seeing if their product resonates with the US based consumer. So, you know, I think it's kind of a trend now. I mean people are investing in it. From what Claire tells us when she looks at the analytics on Eventbrite, people are coming from Texas, Florida, all across the country, Charleston, Savannah, Atlanta. So it's pretty wild.
- [48:01]
Dennis Scully
Well, and I think that speaks to the, to the power, I think of both of your individual brands and that people, people know, I mean, in addition obviously to the list of vendors that we've, that we've talked about. I mean I think a lot of people are coming because they know that you've put something really good together and they're, and they're relying on that as much as anything. And I think it's interesting that I'm assuming it's going to be a very trade driven, designer driven event in part again because of your networks and all the connections with all the different companies involved.
- [48:36]
Ben Reinart
Yes, I think so. But I think we'll also have a lot of people that just like to shop and have nothing to do with our industry except they like the beautiful things that our people make, you know.
- [48:50]
Dennis Scully
Yeah.
- [48:50]
Ben Reinart
But it should be interesting to see, you know, the turnout and, you know, if there are a lot of trade doing it in town as opposed to doing it in the country. And I think that's kind of our business model. In the spring, we'll go back to a location an hour, some odd minutes outside of the city. And in the fall we'll, you know, stick to Manhattan or the surrounding areas.
- [49:20]
Geneva Bell
We also had, interestingly, a lot of shop owners coming from like the south and Texas and California, Atlanta, who are looking for unique products for their independent stores. So we love that because we love brick and mortar, we love shopping in person. So if we can support other retail stores independently owned, that's even better for us as well. And then our vendors are now connected to this network of really interesting shops across the country. So we saw store owners create accounts with a lot of our vendors, which was great.
- [50:04]
Ben Reinart
Yeah. So not only are the vendors getting access to the media, they're meeting designers that might have been clients of theirs online and they never got to meet in person. And they're getting access to retailers that are looking for unique collections. So it's a win win. You know, we talked a lot about the shoppers. It's also a huge win for the vendors. And we realized that when we tallied up the numbers, I mean, vendors, depending on what they sold, made anywhere between 10 and $50,000 between the hours of 9am and essentially 3, 3:30pm so those are big dollars for small brands. So if you do that twice a year, you know, think about it. We're, we're added value, you know, to their businesses. And we don't take a percentage of sales from the vendors. So anything they earn that day, they walk away with. It's a business for us. We have the sponsorship fees that are left over after our expenses. We have the vendor participation fees and the ticket sales. So, you know, like we said, we didn't know going into it whether this would be a folly or a Business. And it's a business. And I think we will develop offshoots of this, you know, as we grow.
- [51:45]
Geneva Bell
So stay tuned.
- [51:46]
Ben Reinart
So stay tuned to the Thursday show.
- [51:49]
Christina Juarez
Okay.
- [51:50]
Dennis Scully
Well, I mean, it sounds like the ticking tent is being. Becoming an empire.
- [51:55]
Ben Reinart
Well, you never know.
- [51:57]
Dennis Scully
You never know. You know, it's so exciting. So exciting. What could happen? Let's, let's remind people of the, of the website, the tickingtent.com. they can, they can get more information, and otherwise we'll see you in Williamsburg on November 2nd. I can't wait.
- [52:15]
Ben Reinart
And tickets are available on our website or through events.
- [52:20]
Dennis Scully
Well, I'm, I'm excited for you both. I, I can't wait to eventually find it and, and be there. I look, I look forward to that. And I, and I think, Dennis, we're.
- [52:29]
Ben Reinart
Gonna pick you up in Bronxville.
- [52:31]
Dennis Scully
Well, drive you out. No, I, I was hoping the conversation would go that way. I was hoping. Yes. Yeah, yeah, I think.
- [52:36]
Ben Reinart
And we're looking for some volunteers.
- [52:39]
Dennis Scully
Exactly. If someone wants to come and give Dennis a lift, we have an apron.
- [52:44]
Ben Reinart
With her name on it. Thank you so much for letting us spread the word.
- [52:50]
Dennis Scully
Well, I'm delighted to get to talk with you both and I thank you so much for making the time.
- [52:54]
Geneva Bell
Thank you, Dennis. We'll see you there.
- [52:55]
Ben Reinart
Thank you, Dennis. See you there.
- [53:02]
Dennis Scully
And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here, but before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye.
- [53:09]
Christina Juarez
Fred, Gold ad caught my eye this week, Dennis. We've talked a little bit about, on the show about the rise of the adu, or accessory dwelling unit, and, you know, its role in mitigating what's historic housing crisis. Anyway, let's leave that behind. This is about gold Adus. Apparently there's this company called ood. I don't know how to pronounce it. It's O with an umlaut. O with an umlaut D. So ood, I guess that manufactures these kind of like, I don't know, stunt ADUs. Like there was. There's an ADU that they're marketing now that has this mirrored gold surface that looks sort of like something from a James Bond movie. I don't know, it just. Mainly it caught my eye because it was funny. But I also think it speaks to the fact that, like, the ADU market is like, clearly there's a demand for this. If people are coming up with weird stunt products, you know that the market is Reaching maturity. So if you can get into that line of business, I think you're in good. What caught your eye this week, Dennis? I know you've been on the road a little bit.
- [54:05]
Dennis Scully
Indeed. Just got back from Dallas, where I had a delightful visit. Congrats to George Cameron Nash on the big bash. It was a. It was a crowded affair. Lots of people there. And shout out to so many very kind showrooms, especially Holly Hunt and the. And the delightful folks at the James showroom who showed me very kind hospitality and. And in the case of the James showroom, actually invited me back for tacos and ranch water. Fred. Which I wasn't familiar with before I. Before I went to Dallas, but they very kindly educated me about what they.
- [54:40]
Fred Nicholaus
Referred to as the poor man's margarita.
- [54:42]
Dennis Scully
And we had a delightful time and a nice visit. And I have to say, universally, every showroom that I went into, they talked about. Yeah, no, we love this design center, actually.
- [54:52]
Christina Juarez
This is great.
- [54:53]
Dennis Scully
I mean, so it was a very. It was a very different vibe. And that was part of why I wanted to go, was to hear people who like their design center a lot. And that was. That was a universal message that I heard. So a nice change.
- [55:06]
Christina Juarez
I know, I know. We're a little too. We're a little too hard on the design centers of the world. Let the people know.
- [55:12]
Dennis Scully
Yes, we know there's good ones. Absolutely. No, absolutely. The other thing I wanted to give a shout out to, I was impressed with a company that we don't talk about very often, Marge Carson. Our old friend Christian Lemieux is doing a new collection for Marge Carson, and it's striking. We were talking recently about BR Home, and part of why we didn't think it necessarily succeeded in the way that they had hoped was because it looked a little derivative or like things we'd seen. And I have to say, Christiane has a striking new collection for Morris Carson. And it's not a lot of what you've seen before, and it really looked great, so I was excited for her. I know she's also got some new tabletop that she's introducing, so a lot of creativity coming out of there. But I was impressed with the line. I hope to see it in person. And as I say, we don't talk about Marge Carson all the time, but a distinguished furniture maker that's been around for a long time.
- [56:14]
Christina Juarez
Yeah, it's an interesting company. And what a fun paragraph. I mean, Christiane is like such a restless entrepreneur who's done so much, you know, founded the inside she's written a book. I mean, it would be a shorter list of all the things she has not done. So I haven't seen this yet, but I'm really eager to check it out and maybe chat with her in the not too distant future.
- [56:31]
Dennis Scully
Yeah, no, no. I want to get together with her.
- [56:33]
Fred Nicholaus
All right.
- [56:34]
Dennis Scully
That's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings or take a workshop, visit us online@businessofhome.com if you want to get in touch with the show, write to us@podcastusinessofhome.com this episode was produced by Fred Nicholaus and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend, and we'll be back with you on Monday.