The Thursday Show: Kravet sells. Plus: Lindye Galloway's new brand

Summary

Business of Home Podcast: Episode Summary

Title: The Thursday Show: Kravet sells. Plus: Lindye Galloway's new brand
Host: Dennis Scully
Guests: Lindy and Wynne Galloway
Release Date: December 5, 2024

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1. Introduction and Weekly News Overview

Dennis Scully opens the episode alongside Fred Nicholas, Business of Home's executive editor, to discuss the latest industry news. They briefly mention upcoming conversations, including an interview with Lindy and Wynne Galloway about their new furniture line.

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2. Industry News Highlights

a. Kravit's Major Acquisition

One of the central topics is Kravit's recent sale of a majority stake to Dunes Point Capital, marking the end of its century-long family ownership.

• Fred Nicholas ([04:09]): “Kravit has been a family-owned company since 1918. The current generation is the fifth in ownership, so selling a majority stake was genuinely shocking.”

• Dennis Scully ([04:11]): Echoes Fred’s surprise, emphasizing the unexpected nature of the acquisition.

Details of the Deal:

• Dunes Point Capital, founded in 2013 by Tim White (a Blackstone veteran), has grown significantly, acquiring over 100 companies across various industries, including notable names like Sonoman and Stanton.
• The Kravit family retains a significant ownership stake and leadership roles, with Kerry Kravitz remaining as CEO.

Implications:

• Potential for Kravit to serve as a platform for further acquisitions, leveraging Dunes Point Capital’s expertise and financial backing.
• Fred Nicholas ([08:02]): Highlights the blend of family legacy with new investment strategies, anticipating industry-wide reverberations.

b. Atlanta Homes and Lifestyles Acquisition

The regional magazine Atlanta Homes and Lifestyles has been acquired by Buckhead Crown Media, founded by its current publisher, Elizabeth Rawls.

• Fred Nicholas ([11:26]): Describes the acquisition as a strategic move that aligns well with the magazine's strong local presence and its established events like the show house.

Context:

• Occurs amidst broader media layoffs, including significant cuts at Hearst and departures from El Decor and Veranda, highlighting challenges within the media sector.

c. Layoffs at EJ Victor

EJ Victor, a North Carolina-based furniture manufacturer, has laid off 121 employees following devastating floods from Hurricane Helene and subsequent legal disputes with their insurer.

• Fred Nicholas ([14:11]): Expresses sympathy and outlines the company's struggles with insurance claims, which have led to financial strain and mass layoffs.

d. New Tariffs Announced by President-Elect Trump

Trump has proposed sweeping tariffs, including a 25% tax on imports from Canada and Mexico, and an additional 10% on goods from China.

• Fred Nicholas ([16:59]): Analyzes the potential impact on the furniture industry, noting possible price inflation and supply chain uncertainties.

• Dennis Scully ([17:52]): Discusses mixed reactions within the industry, with some viewing it as strategic maneuvering rather than immediate policy changes.

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3. Restoration Hardware (R.H.) Newport Beach Grand Opening

Dennis and Fred delve into the grand opening of R.H.'s largest gallery in Newport Beach, highlighting its scale and the strategic inclusion of a Waterworks store within the gallery.

• Dennis Scully ([21:07]): Shares his firsthand experience of the opulent event, noting features like ice-made caviar bars and a bustling, enthusiastic crowd.

• Highlight on Waterworks Collaboration:

  • The Waterworks store, spanning approximately 3,000 square feet, complements R.H.'s aesthetic and offers an integrated shopping experience.
  • Dennis Scully ([23:23]): "Waterworks and RH are both companies that are so focused on their presentation and how they show their product."

Critical Analysis:

• While the expansive 97,700-square-foot space showcases extensive product lines, there are concerns about the financial sustainability and the risk of product redundancy.

• Fred Nicholas ([26:00]): Observes a positive market reaction with R.H.’s stock surging post-opening, suggesting investor confidence despite operational risks.

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4. Interview with Lindy and Wynne Galloway: Launch of Their New Furniture Line

a. Origin Story and Business Evolution

Lindy Galloway shares the inception of their design studio a decade ago, transitioning from wedding and event design to interior design due to personal life changes.

• Lindy Galloway ([28:22]): Describes starting with personal home projects, which organically led to professional opportunities thanks to features and client referrals.

b. Expansion into E-Commerce

The couple ventured into e-commerce in 2020 to diversify their offerings, initially focusing on decor before realizing the potential of designing their own furniture.

• Wynne Galloway ([30:27]): Discusses the strategic shift towards furniture inspired by high demand for unique, studio-quality pieces.

Challenges Faced:

• Navigating production delays and supply chain issues exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic.
• Wynne Galloway ([38:16]): Highlights the lengthy design-to-launch process, emphasizing the complexity of manufacturing bespoke furniture.

c. Strategic Partnerships and Growth

Their collaboration with R.H. emerged when R.H. CEO Gary Friedman took notice of Lindy’s designs on social media, leading to a partnership that integrated their furniture line into R.H.’s offerings.

• Dennis Scully ([46:56]): Inquires about the design collaboration process, highlighting efficient turnaround times from initial contact to product launch.

• Lindy Galloway ([48:58]): Confirms exclusivity of the partnership, ensuring their designs are uniquely featured within the R.H. collection.

d. Marketing and Brand Differentiation

Their success in e-commerce is attributed to leveraging their strong social media presence and authentic engagement with their audience.

• Wynne Galloway ([54:09]): Emphasizes the role of Lindy’s personable approach in building trust and driving conversions.

• Lindy Galloway ([52:39]): Attributes their standout presence to a commitment to innovative design and willingness to take creative risks.

Future Plans:

• Intent to establish a physical retail space in Orange County by 2025 to enhance customer experience and brand visibility.
• Continued collaboration with R.H. to expand their furniture categories and influence within the high-end market.

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5. Closing Remarks and Industry Highlights

Dennis and Fred wrap up the episode by celebrating industry achievements and notable changes:

• Ryan Watts, a respected design journalist, is moving from Surface magazine to Gallery magazine, praised for his engaging newsletters.

• The AD100 list for 2025 is announced, featuring prominent industry figures like Andre Malone and newcomers such as Heidi Collier and Alyssa Capito, signaling evolving trends and emerging talents.

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Notable Quotes

• Fred Nicholas ([00:38]): “Some years you eat the Thanksgiving turkey. In some years it eats you.”

• Lindy Galloway ([28:22]): “I wasn't sure what that change was, but we ended up having our first child, so that was one big change.”

• Wynne Galloway ([33:21]): “We start learning the language, and then you find good people that are operating businesses that are similar to you, and you just ask questions.”

• Lindy Galloway ([53:40]): “Our commitment to that innovation piece has been what has made us always stand out.”

• Wynne Galloway ([54:09]): “The one thing that we have that everybody doesn't have is that we have Lindy.”

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Conclusion

This episode of the Business of Home Podcast provides a comprehensive overview of significant industry developments, including major acquisitions, challenges within media and manufacturing sectors, and strategic expansions by leading brands like Restoration Hardware. The highlight is the insightful interview with Lindy and Wynne Galloway, who navigate the complexities of launching a successful furniture line amidst a competitive e-commerce landscape. Their story underscores the importance of adaptability, innovative design, and strategic partnerships in the evolving interior design community.

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For more detailed insights, visit businessofhome.com and stay updated with the latest trends, job listings, and workshops in the interior design industry.

Transcript

[Dennis Scully]

This is Business of Home. I'm Dennis Scully and welcome to the Thursday Show. Later on, I'll be talking to Lindy and Wynne Galloway about the launch of their new furniture line. But first, we're going to catch up on the news, including RH's largest gallery ever, layoffs at EJ Victor, and big news from Kravit. To do all that, I'm joined by Business of Home's executive editor, Fred Nicholas. Hi, Fred.

[Fred Nicholas]

Hi, Dennis. How's it going?

[Dennis Scully]

Great. How you doing?

[Fred Nicholas]

Good. Good to be back after a week off for Thanksgiving.

[Dennis Scully]

I missed you terribly, Fred. I hope you had a nice holiday.

[Fred Nicholas]

Well, I did not have a nice holiday. Some years you eat the Thanksgiving turkey. In some years it eats you. I had a horrible virus. My son threw up in his car seat in the Starbucks parking lot in suburban New Jersey. It was one for the record books. Did you have a nice Thanksgiving? Sorry, listeners, by the way, I apologize.

[Dennis Scully]

I'm so sorry. Y In contrast, Fred, I had a lovely Thanksgiving both in California and in New York.

[Fred Nicholas]

Not just one, but two great Thanksgivings.

[Dennis Scully]

Exactly.

[Fred Nicholas]

Well, enough chit chat. We got a lot of news to get to and we're not even going to talk about Kelly Wurstler's substack. That'll come next week. But first, let's look back on, I guess really it's Monday's episode with Andre Malone, which was a great conversation. But I want to quickly look back even a week before that with Brooke and Steve Giannetti, because the week prior and here we're really going in the time machine, there was a new client vetting process from Tom Stringer, which was if your client is comfortable swearing with you, that means the project will go well. Brooke and Steve Giannetti had an even more avant garde method, which is if the client is nice to your pet goats, then they're a keeper. So it's another good one to have in your bathroom.

[Dennis Scully]

If your client doesn't want to pet your baby goat, then really, is that a client you want to have? No, I think they may. That clear.

[Fred Nicholas]

Exactly. But let's talk about Andre Malone. I love this one. It was really fun.

[Dennis Scully]

I agree. And it was a great conversation with Andre, who has worked for so many of the giants of our industry, from Robert a.m. stern to the late great Mark Hampton and Ferguson Shamamian, among others. And it gave him such an interesting perspective. And also it took him such a long time to feel confident and ready to go out on his own after working for so many legendary firms. And I think part of it was, can I consider myself as good as all these great people that I've worked for?

[Fred Nicholas]

He's well on his way, right? Really interesting. Kind of cuts both ways. When you have these really big names on your resume, it's really impressive. But also, yeah, it makes you feel a little bit gun shy about going out on your own. It wasn't until he was in his, I think, mid-40s and had all these huge names on his resume. Something kind of inspirational about that is like he finally was like, all right, now it's time. And he didn't even. He started off by sketching for people, which is, I don't know. There's a lot of bravery to his story, in a way.

[Dennis Scully]

Indeed. All right, we're going to get into the news in just a moment, but first, a quick break. This podcast is sponsored by Anthem Showering Only from Kohler. Anthem plus creates a transformative world for body and mind with every shower. It combines water, steam, light and sound in a fully immersive sensory experience with custom settings to match any mood and enhance any routine. Discover how you can design a personalized escape with Anthem Plus. Smart [e-mail] showers and we're back. First up, Fred, big news from Kravit.

[Fred Nicholas]

Very big news from Kravit. This week, the fabric giant announced that investment firm Dunes Point Capital had acquired a majority stake in the company. Huge. Never thought I'd see this day.

[Dennis Scully]

Is that right? You never thought you'd see this day?

[Fred Nicholas]

Well, I mean, Kravitz has been a family owned company since, what, 1918. The current generation of leadership there is the fifth generation of family ownership of Kravit. When you say Kravitz, the next thing you say is family owned. So the fact that they sold the majority stake was genuinely shocking. I don't know if you felt the same.

[Dennis Scully]

No, I definitely did. And I think a lot of people were shocked to hear this news. And I want to get into a little bit of the reaction. But first, why don't we break down the deal and have you tell us some of the details and who Dunes Point Capital is and what's involved.

[Fred Nicholas]

A name that's very familiar to people in the design industry. Yeah. Okay. So this deal, Kravitz has sold a majority stake of its business, meaning more than 51%. Essentially. They did not sell the entirety of it. And the Kravit family has retained what they referred to as a significant ownership stake in the business. I don't know what that Percentage is, I think it's bound up in the non disclosure agreement around the deal. But clearly they're still, they have an ownership stake in Kravit. Just as importantly, the Kravit family is still in leadership roles. Kerry Kravitz, the CEO is still the CEO. This is not like we're handing you the keys to the car. Dunes Point Capital, drive off and have fun with it. They're still very involved with the business. That being said, they did sell a majority stake. This is a deal where they're selling a big chunk of the company. What is Dunes Point Capital? It's an investment firm. It's not a private equity firm. It was started in 2013 by this guy named Tim White who is a veteran of of financial giant Blackstone. It started as a family office, but over the past decade it's gotten bigger and bigger. They've raised $1.5 billion and they're doing a lot of acquisitions. I think They've acquired over 100 companies at this point. It's an investment firm that is gobbling up a lot of companies and now a big share of Kravit is part of that.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, including a couple of big names in the home industry that we should point out, right?

[Fred Nicholas]

Yeah. Sonoman, the lighting company and Stanton is another one that they've picked up. They have this strategy now. What they tend to do is they buy one anchor or platform company that's a significant player in a given industry and then they acquire companies around that. They'll buy one roofing company and then they'll buy five or six or seven roofing companies to bolster up that group. Obviously you can take advantage of economies of scale. It's a classic investment play. But that appears to be what they're doing doing. In speaking with Cary Kravitz the other day, it seems like that is certainly one way it could play out with this acquisition of Kravitz is that Kravit could be this platform company and they could acquire companies around Kravit to make it bigger and better.

[Dennis Scully]

So the first of many acquisitions which would be great for the Thursday show if nothing else, right?

[Fred Nicholas]

Exactly. That's why they did this.

[Dennis Scully]

Why do we think they really did this? Why do you think Dunes Capital wanted to make this acquisition and why do we think the Kravitz wanted to sell?

[Fred Nicholas]

I think the Dunes Point question is simpler to answer. Kravitz been around for a long time. It's a big, well run company. I think this is a good industry to be in. And I'm sure that they have as many people from the outside see there's inefficiencies in the home industry. I think that probably they're thinking, okay, we can buy one of the biggest names in this world and build around it. It's not, I think, too complicated. Beyond that, why Kravitz chose to sell is more interesting. I think. As I've said, the company's been in the family for over 100 years, so this is a big deal. I do think there's a lot of people in the Kravit family, so it's always complicated when you have a big family that owns a company. But I do think it's a really interesting decision and I'm looking forward to hearing more as the story plays out. What was your read on the motivation to sell?

[Dennis Scully]

Well, as you say, it's a family business and I'm sure there are a lot of family members who want to perhaps not participate directly, but would like some other way of being paid out over time. I'm sure there's some element of estate planning and all of that involved in a decision like this. I wonder too, if Kravet just didn't see how it could dramatically grow without having a major partner behind it. And maybe there were some technological investments that Dunes Point Capital can bring and maybe there are some other ways to really help the business longer term. I'm certain that it is a decision that Cary Kravitz and the family agonized over for a really long time.

[Fred Nicholas]

That's a big deal. I mean, if it's sitting in your family for 100 years, that's not something to.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah, but also this is a very thoughtful family and they don't tend to take decisions lightly. So this is a major decision for them. The Kravetts really are perceived as leaders in the industry. And I think so often when you talk about the Kravet's, the first words that people bring to mind is integrity. And they're just seen, as I say, straight shooters and honest brokers. And so I think this news is going to reverberate a lot in the industry. The fact that the Kravitz felt this was necessary, I think it's going to cause a lot of other companies to take a good hard look at themselves.

[Fred Nicholas]

Yeah. And I mean, I think your point about maybe they sort of felt maxed out on how much more can we meaningfully grow simply by acquiring boutique fabric brands? And you look at like it's not a competitive company, but something like Visual Comfort. Comfort, which is a company that had a huge private equity investment, which is obviously a bit different, but has managed to grow a lot over the course of that investment. I'm guessing that Kravit, maybe that's part of the excitement of it for the Kravit family. Think what we could do if we had this big. It's not only a pool of money, but it's the expertise of a big financial company alongside us. It is interesting. I think it's really big news. In speaking with Cary Kravitz the other day, he was like, nothing's going to change at Kravit. I'm here. We're all still here. He said kind of very funnily, the only thing designers will notice is the article that you're about to write. It's possible that the impact of this will not really be felt at all on the designer level. I do think though that if you have this big player that's got a lot of money to make acquisitions around Kravit, that changes the game for other people. It wasn't totally clear to me what kind of companies you could buy to put next to Kravit. You could buy another big fabric company, you could buy another furnishings company. There's a lot of different things they could do with a big financial backer. To me, I'm almost less interested in how this is going to change Kravit over the next year or so. I'm really interested to see how it's going to change the industry.

[Dennis Scully]

I'm certain there will be more to talk about in the coming weeks and months. And as I say, good for the Thursday show. If we could bring it back right to that. Yeah, good for us. Plenty to talk about. Okay, next up, we're going to talk about a Shelter magazine acquisition. Atlanta Homes and Lifestyles has a new owner. The newly formed Buckhead Crown Media, founded by the magazine's current publisher, Elizabeth Rawls, acquired the publication from Esteemed Media this week for an undisclosed amount. What do we make of this one, Fred?

[Fred Nicholas]

A lot of M and A this week. Yeah, this was an interesting one. So Atlanta Homes and Lifestyles is a magazine that's been, as the name implies, been in Atlanta for a long time. It was owned up until now by this company called Esteemed Media, which is a little bit of an interesting roll up. They own the Design Influencers Conference. They own New England Home. It's a little bit kind of like a hodgepodge of a few media assets owned by this Guy. Adam Japko and Elizabeth Rawls has been there for a long time, very well known in the Southeast, and she's formed this company to take over the magazine that I think she, at this point, is just so closely associated with that it makes all the sense in the world. This is a deal that, on its face, just seems very clearly to work out for both parties.

[Dennis Scully]

We've spoken in the past about the power and the strength of regional magazines at a time where perhaps the media industry overall is trying to figure some things out. There has clearly been strength in the regionals, and this particular one is very strong in its market. I reached out to several different PR people when hearing the news just to get a sense of their take on how important this magazine is. One of the interesting things that one of the PR people said to me was there isn't a business in this industry that isn't focused on Atlanta in a huge way. I think this is a very important player in that market, and this is a very important market for just about every company that we talk about. I think this could be quite good.

[Fred Nicholas]

Yeah, it's interesting. This news comes hot on the heels of some more sad news in media, which we didn't get to because it happened around Thanksgiving, which was a big layoff at Hearst. A couple people from El Decor were let go, and I think a couple of people at Veranda also departed amid cuts that saw the Overall company lose 200 people, I think, which is pretty crazy. It's just not a great time for media in general and design media in particular. But as you said, I think these regionals have this strength of just being so tied into their communities. I think one thing Elizabeth has done very smartly is develop all these events, which they can do much more organically than a big national publication swooping in and doing something in a local market. They have a show house. They have a home for the holidays show house, all of which are apparently quite popular. I think that, look, regionals is a good place to be if you're in design media, and Atlanta is a good place to be if you're in regional design media. So there's a lot of stars aligned to make this make sense, and I'm certainly excited to see what she does with it now that she's the owner.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah, no, I agree. It'll be interesting to see what happens, and hopefully we'll get to talk about it in the coming weeks. In the meantime, sadly, Fred, we have to move on to talk about layoffs at EJ Victor.

[Fred Nicholas]

Yes, sad News. Last week, the North Carolina based furniture manufacturer let go of 121 employees, nearly its entire workforce. The decision followed a brutal period for EJ Victor, which saw its factory flooded by Hurricane Helene and a lawsuit against its insurance company. It struggled to recover since. Sad news.

[Dennis Scully]

Very sad news. I remember working for a furniture company that had gone through Hurricane Sandy and lost over a million dollars in inventory and really was almost brought to its knees. The insurance payout actually took years to come. I'm so so that they've had to endure this and they must not have been in a particularly flush cash position when this happened. It just seems like money ran out. Is that your sense?

[Fred Nicholas]

Yeah. I don't want to claim inside knowledge of what's going on here, but their factory was flooded. It destroyed a lot of their inventory and they were hoping that insurance money would come through quickly. But their insurance company of course claimed this doesn't meet the definition of flood damage or something absurd like that. They sued their insurance company, but it takes forever for those lawsuits to go through. Who knows if they even win them and how much the ultimate payout will be. It could take years. In that time, clearly they were in a bit of a cash crunch. The big question for me is I just don't know what happens at this point. They have retained some of their staff to oversee operations, but it seems like they have nobody to make the furniture. I don't know, maybe they're hoping a white knight will swoop in. I'm certainly eager to do more reporting and understand what the state of play is here because, you know, they've essentially fired their entire production staff. So I don't know what the future looks like for E.J. victor.

[Dennis Scully]

No, I agree. We definitely want to learn a lot more. We've talked in the past about some of the great names that they made collections for, including Ralph Lauren and others. It's Kelly Wersler. Well, your favorite Kelly Wersler as well. Yes, and so many others too. I mean, they really were a company that was involved with a lot of big names and I think they were very well thought of. So it's sad. I hope there is a next chapter for them and I hope we learn more in the near future. In the meantime, we have to move on to talk about one of your favorite topics, Fred. Tariffs. After campaigning on the promise of rolling out sweeping tariffs, President Elect Trump gave new specifics last week, including a 25% tax on imports from Canada and Mexico and an additional 10% tax on goods from China. So no country is going to be spared, it looks like. Fred, what do you think there's a.

[Fred Nicholas]

New tariff in town? Yeah. I mean, this is. We should just step back for a second and say that. As is often the case with Trump, and this is a belief held by both his fans and detractors, it's difficult to know how seriously to take this because it's possible that this is just a little bit of like a, you know, staking out a bold claim, trying to get people to the bargaining table to get a better deal down the line. And it won't really be 25% on Canada and Mexico. It's possible he's deadly serious about this, and this will happen day one, as he said. So we should just be candid in that we don't know what will really happen here. Nobody does. So a little bit of humility in terms of talking about the effects of this, because we don't know how real it is. If it is real. This is obviously a huge development. There's a lot of furniture made in Canada and Mexico. And behind the scenes, a lot of people in the industry are scrambling to figure out, well, if this is real, real, what does it mean?

[Dennis Scully]

No, I agree. And I think, as you say, it's hard to know what of any of this really comes to fruition. I spoke to several people who echoed the sentiment that I think has been written about a lot since the election. Are we programmed this time around to behave a little bit differently and actually wait to see what happens instead of responding to every little thing that comes out of the new administration, tariffs included? And let's see if this is just a little jawboning to make, maybe move some people in a certain direction. And also looking at the markets, the stock market's going to new highs. No one seems terribly worried about this in the short term. So maybe people are thinking, again, it is just a bold maneuvering tactic.

[Fred Nicholas]

Yeah. I mean, I do think, though, that tariffs are one of the things that Trump very much did do in his first term. And so I kind of feel like there's going to be some tariffs coming. I don't think it's likely that there's zero tariffs that come when he takes office. I just think it's these numbers, like 25% and additional 10 on top of the existing Chinese tariffs. It's hard to know what to make of that. To state the obvious, 25% on Canada and Mexico would make a lot of furniture get more expensive and a lot of things in general get more expensive. Home news. Now, did A great article summarizing some of the numbers involved. And they say that 3.2 billion is imported from Mexico and furniture and 2.2 billion from Canada. You put a 25% tariff on that and people are going to have to raise prices. You can't absorb that in the manufacturing process. Certainly there will be inflationary on prices. As we talked a couple weeks ago, it's possible that it will have the effect of spurring domestic manufacturing. I've seen some optimism on that front, but that takes a while to roll up. You snap your fingers, you add a 25% tariff, people can't immediately react to that. And so I do think behind the scenes people are just very confused. Candidly, no one knows exactly what to do about this. I do think that people are trying to stay nimble in their supply chains, but supply chains are only so nimble.

[Dennis Scully]

No, no, I agree. And I mean, I think to your point, I spoke to several people who said, wait, I thought we were supposed to start nearshoring. I thought we were supposed to be moving the production to Mexico and Canada. I thought that was the point and get away. So people are a little bit confused. And as you say, I mean, more than anything, it's just unsettling all of this talk and it's hard to know where it ultimately ends up. As you say, it's hard to imagine that there aren't going to be meaningful tariffs of some kind. He certainly campaigned on this wholeheartedly, full throatedly. And so it's hard to imagine that he's not going to feel compelled to put something pretty dramatic in place. Although the market was comforted by the announcement of who he is appointing to be the Treasury Secretary. And people are imagining that perhaps a former hedge fund manager will help keep some of these things in line. But again, we'll see. Right now the market, as I say, just keeps going to new highs. So they act like not a care in the world, but we'll see. Next up, Fred, we're going to talk about R.H. newport Beach.

[Fred Nicholas]

Last week, the brand formerly known as Restoration Hardware debuted a new outpost in Southern California, hosting a star studded opening event to unveil R.H. newport Beach. Dennis, you were one of those stars. What were your thoughts? You were there at the party. Did you share some caviar with Sydney Sweeney? What was it like?

[Dennis Scully]

Caviar and celebrities everywhere you looked. And perhaps what was most impressive, the caviar bars were made of ice. So I mean, wow, that was. Yeah, R.H. knows how to throw a party.

[Fred Nicholas]

There's no question about that much do. Yeah, right. But seriously, walk us through a little bit. You know, this is a gallery that's 97,7000 square feet, which in technical terms means big. I'm curious, like, first of all, what was the party like? And then we'll get to the showroom itself or the gallery itself. Sorry.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, so, I mean, yes, to be serious. Listen, a fantastic party. They had different bars on every floor and caviar and steak frite and everything that you could possibly want and more. And at the same time, they had this wildly enthusiastic, huge crowd that poured into this location. And this location is centered in this huge. To call it a shopping mall is an injustice to Fashion Island. It's this luxury shopping mecca area. And unlike the party that you and I were at at RH England, where we were speculating about whether the English would really embrace RH and find this furniture fitting their lifestyles, the feeling in Newport beach was these people are going to love this furniture and this store, and I think this is going to be a huge win for them. And then when you throw in this brand new, first of its kind, Waterworks store within a store that looked so perfectly at home in that space, in many ways, I think it looks like a winner.

[Fred Nicholas]

Well, tell me about the Waterworks store. When speculating, do consumers really want to shop for hardware themselves? I know you got a walkthrough from Peter Salak himself. What was your read on that angle of this new gallery?

[Dennis Scully]

Well, it's interesting because Waterworks and RH are both companies that are so focused on their presentation and how they show their product. And Peter pointed out to me, oh, this is actually one of Gary's favorite lines is the Atlas line that had been done by Roman and Williams, which I thought was interesting. And Waterworks is always worried about how are they going to look, how are they going to present themselves? I think at the end of the day, out of all the partners they could possibly have, out of all the showroom floors that aren't their own, that they could be with, this RH store just felt so compatible. And are they going to sell a ton of product out of that store? I don't know. But I think if there was a place that they had to be, this seemed very reasonable. And the Waterworks presentation, which is about 3,000 square feet, was very impressive. And so I think for a lot of people, they probably are going to discover Waterworks for the first time. And I think that could, longer term be a good thing for both brands.

[Fred Nicholas]

What if Any were the downsides here? Was there anything that you felt like, okay, this is just a. Was there? Europe's largest herd of white deer was imported to be on the grounds. I'm just curious to get a critique here.

[Dennis Scully]

No, no, no, absolutely. I mean, and so, so listen, you have to buy into this concept of building these enormous spaces. Does this location need to be 97,000 square feet? I don't think so. So it's a, it's a huge undertaking. And the store, listen, I don't know what the dollars per square foot tend to be for their locations, but there's an awful lot of square footage that has to perform. And I think, think that because it's all so monotone, that product very quickly starts to look repetitive on a floor. And if it's 97,000 square feet, you very quickly feel like you might have seen it all. It's a huge risk. These stores are an enormous risk at a time where RH carries a heavy debt load and has a lot to prove. And Gary Friedman has told us that business still isn't so great because things are. Aren't moving the way they'd like to in the high end housing market. So I think they've got a lot to prove. The only thing I will say, as I said earlier, is this door makes a lot more sense to me than RH England or the European expansion. That market looked like it could absorb an RH like this and really make it work.

[Fred Nicholas]

The stock popped right after the opening. I mean, it's hard to exactly pin it to it, but maybe some investors had some good caviar at the event and went home and bought some RH stock.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, exactly. And those parties I think make you feel like, yeah, this guy knows what he's doing. And so, I mean, they're weeks away from opening their own design firm in Palm Springs and they've got other big openings that they're focused on. So there's a lot of big news that's going to be coming out of RH again. Do they have the liquidity to make it all work? If there's the one thing that I would focus on on the other side, it's, it's. They're very stretched financially and they've got a lot going on. All right, that's it for the news. But there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com including a feature story on furniture banks and advice from Sean Lowe on setting healthy boundaries with clients during the holidays. We'll be back in a minute. But first, a quick break. We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about Anthem plus Smart Showering only from Kohler. With Anthem plus, you can design a showering escape that commands up to 12 water outlets, supports custom lighting environments to match any mood, and allows for three levels of soothing steam set to music from personal playlists. Every moment asks the user to imagine, when you take a shower, where does your shower take you? Explore Anthem+ smart [e-mail] Showers and now back to the show. And we're back. I am joined now by Lindy and Wynn Galloway. Ray, thank you both for being here.

[Lindy Galloway]

Happy to be here. Thanks for having us.

[Wynne Galloway]

Thanks, Dennis.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, I'm delighted to have you here and it was so lovely to see you in Newport beach recently, which we're going to talk about in a little bit. But before we jump ahead to all of that, I wanted to explain a little bit about your design business, which also became an E commerce business and has recently relaunched and rebranded. So, Lindy, where's the best place to start? Do think so?

[Lindy Galloway]

10 years ago is when I started our design studio. I was in the wedding and event world and decided that I just needed kind of a change, but I wasn't sure what that change was. But we ended up having our first child, so that was. That was one big change. And I'm at the hospital and I'm giving birth to our first child.

[Dennis Scully]

We're getting a lot of detail here. Okay. Yes.

[Lindy Galloway]

Like, yeah, being a brave woman. And he's on Zillow looking at homes.

[Dennis Scully]

As a way to relax. I understand. Sure.

[Fred Nicholas]

It's an escape.

[Dennis Scully]

It's a little tension breaker.

[Wynne Galloway]

Okay. Exactly. Except none of it's true.

[Lindy Galloway]

It's all true. A few weeks later, we find ourselves with a fixer upper home needing quite a bit of work. And I had no background or schooling in interior design. And I thought, hey, why not just jump into this? So I started doing it. Now, I was designing our home on a shoestring budget and we took it back to the studs and, you know, I was figuring it out as I was going, but I was also posting it on Instagram, apparently making it look like I knew what I was doing, doing. So as soon as our house was finished and I started posting it, ended up getting some features, and then I had a couple people in the area reach out and say, hey, would you, you know, design our home? And I was like, I looked at Wynn and I'm like, looks like I gotta get some business cards printed because I had nothing. And I was like, yeah, totally. But I think they were willing to take me on because I was charging about $5 an hour. And my inexperience may have shown through a little bit, but that's how the studio side got started. I had a couple really amazing clients to start. I've always focused on doing the whole home home and being able to do the finishes through to the furniture. And ultimately those couple clients that I had got picked up in Features, it was sort of like hard work meets amazing luck. And I started just getting more and more clients from there. And for the next five years, it was me growing the business, bringing on employees, figuring out how to do the actual business side along with the creative. And then at five years is when Wynn came into the picture, which is also when we decided that we wanted to start an E commerce side of the business as well.

[Dennis Scully]

What led to wanting to launch the E Commerce side of the business?

[Wynne Galloway]

Lindy had this idea that let's take all of kind of the vendors and the profiles and the pictures that we have, and let's find a way that maybe we can sell some furniture. And I think this kind of became a trend in the industry in 2019, 2020. So I immediately just decided, yeah, that sounds like fun. Let's do that. And we said off on this journey of starting an E commerce business with really no background, no expertise in what it takes to start an E commerce business. And we built that up. It took about nine months to launch the shop, and then we launched in July of 2020, which was, many would say, great timing. You know, we. We were able to get a lot of attraction kind of right away. The dream was always actually to launch this with kind of our own furniture and our own collection of furniture, as well as work with some of the traditional dropship partners. But Covid had a little bit of a say to that, and it was quite difficult to produce furniture during that time.

[Dennis Scully]

So Covid made it difficult to design and produce your own line for a time? Yes. Was that was the big issue?

[Wynne Galloway]

Yeah, I mean, material, shipping, I should say logistics demands. We did launch our own small collection of furniture that was made in Indonesia and a factory there that's owned by a local kind of furniture maker here in la. And they partnered with us pretty early on, but it was very difficult just to get that here with all of the shipping and timeline lead time delays. We also found once we launched our own product that, hey, people are actually kind of interested in the things that Lindy's designing and this is the stuff that they're buying the most. And we rather quickly realized, if this is actually going to be a thing, we need to figure out how to make this furniture really well. Well, because the drop ship stuff, it became. We noticed a trend kind of during COVID where you saw a lot of designers actually start their own e commerce shops. And all of a sudden it became, oh, there's a lot of different options in a lot of different places to buy the same furniture. And so we really realized we need to differentiate ourselves and we need to figure out how we can take unique designs that sort of reflect the quality and the style that you see in our studio business business, and then bring that to more of a mass audience. And so that was really the goal and the aim. It just took a while to figure out, how do we do this really well. But we've got some great partners now, and it's been really exciting to see that side of the business grow.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, Wynne, I'm curious and I want to hear about the great partners. We joked about the two of you not having a lot of experience in E commerce. How did you get up to speed and how did you learn what you needed to do to launch the business originally? Did you reach out to a partner? Did someone befriend you? How did it all come about?

[Wynne Galloway]

It started with a spreadsheet of just trying to break down, what are the core elements of this? And it's traffic conversion. What do you think the average order value is going to be? And from there you can build out, okay, how do we do this? That's the basics. And then Lindy had to figure out what is the assortment of the pieces that we're going to have on site? What do we want to sell? You know, when we first launched, we were selling a lot of decor, so a lot of smaller items, lower average order value. And now we're really leaning towards furniture. And so our average order values climbed quite a bit, but our conversions dropped. And so you start learning all these pieces and then you start learning about advertising through Meta and Google. And how do we break through the black void of the Internet? And you really just kind of grow and your expertise grows, you learn the language, and then you find good people that are operating businesses that are similar to you, and you just ask questions. And I would say that that's been the journey is just being fortunate enough to find people that can really give us advice. And then we've always really been very, very insistent on changing things quickly. And that's the Great thing about being a really small team is we can make pivots really fast. So, yeah, change as quickly as you possibly can and lean on as many people as you possibly can.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, and as you were just saying earlier when during COVID a lot of people jumped on the idea of having an E commerce platform of one kind or another and Linux, Cindy, if I recall, you had built a rather sizable social media following, and that I assume was a. Was a very helpful tool to getting the word out for what you were doing online. Tell me about that.

[Lindy Galloway]

Yeah, that was such a huge piece. I mean, at that point, I had already built up so much trust with the people that were following us. I'd already, you know, built up a platform and followers that were familiar with what we were doing on our studio side, and we had really already given them the vision and cast the direction of what we offer and what we do from a style perspective. So naturally, there was already a lot of people that were, you know, DMing and commenting, where can I get this? Where can I get that? And obviously, we have a lot of trade vendors that we use that, you know, aren't accessible, you know, everywhere. But we really saw kind of that opportunity again in the beginning to really try to kind of expand what we were offering, to really meet those people that were like, hey, I love your style. I want a small piece of it. Can't afford to have the whole thing. I'm not building a home, the whole shebang. But how can I have a hutch that feels like it encapsulates what you do with your studio that feels like it has that heirloom and that connection and that feeling that can be brought to my. To my home. So our platform was huge. I don't think that someone starting now, if you've got zero, I mean, that is just such a larger uphill battle. I will say this. We now have in Instagram account account for Lame, which is, you know, what our furniture brand is called, and the hustle that it takes to build that account now is shocking. Like, I'm like, wait, why aren't a hundred thousand people following me in two days? What's happening here? And so I feel like I've gotten to experience that side of it, and being able to leverage our social media following on our Lindy Galloway account was huge.

[Dennis Scully]

What is your experience about what happened between when you first built your social media following and now trying to build this new following for Lame and what's different?

[Lindy Galloway]

You know, I would be so curious to see what tech people would say, but I feel like for me there was a simplicity that existed in the beginning. You didn't have to understand how to make reels and make all these things. There wasn't all this pressure to show up in a million different ways. The only way I had to show up in the beginning was posting once a week, one photo a week.

[Dennis Scully]

And when you starting out, small square every week was all I needed.

[Lindy Galloway]

I'm raising kids and everything. It was such easy times to just be like one photo. And I think the challenge when you're starting out, whether it's an E comm or whether it's projects on, you know, a studio side, the biggest challenge you're going to face is having those photo assets. And now the big difference is we have to be putting our assets out in every single way. From stories to feed posts to reels to TikTok. I still know nothing about TikTok, but our team, you know, they're trying to keep me cool and you young and there's just so much content that you need now. And I think the original simplicity of it made it so much easier to grow than it is now. You know, plus the algorithm and all of that. It feels like more of a guessing game these days.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah. Wyn, coming back to you. So you were originally banking on a lot of the drop ship available product, but suddenly got the feedback that Lindy's design work was actually what people were responding to, if I understood you correctly. So tell me about the shift that that led to.

[Wynne Galloway]

Yeah, I mean, when you're running an E commerce business, you're looking at the data and when you're looking at sales data and you see that a large percentage of your sales are things that are not drop ship but are only available through you, it sort of led us to this conviction of how do we do more of this? And so we started getting really serious about what that would look like at as during 2020, we actually purchased a property in order to build our own home. And we said this is a great opportunity for us to in the process of building this home, telling the story of building this home, the highs and the lows. Let's design a collection of furniture of I think we had seven pieces that we're going to take a gamble on as a small business and we're going to buy 20 or 30 of each of these.

[Lindy Galloway]

Which sounds so little now.

[Wynne Galloway]

It does sound little now, but let's buy 20 or 30 of each of these and then when we launch our house, we're going to say you can buy this nightstand that Lindy designed for her house. You can buy this bench. You can buy this coffee table. And that was sort of our launching off point. And it took us a lot longer than we thought it should take to design a collection. We now know that that's just how long it takes.

[Dennis Scully]

So the design process itself took you.

[Lindy Galloway]

A lot longer from creating the idea in the design to actually launching the piece physically is significantly longer than we would have thought.

[Wynne Galloway]

Yeah, I mean, I think that first piece took well over a year between when we launched it and then we launched it without even actually having the product here yet. So people had to wait 30 or 45 days before they got the shipment of the furniture. And so between designing, getting clear with the factory, getting a sample, making modifications to the sample, finally getting to an approved concept or an approved piece of furniture, and then getting the production run done, it's at least a year of process.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lindy Galloway]

I mean, just for some context, right now, at this very moment, we have just wrapped up all of our spring 26 collections. So that's how, you know, now that we know a bit more about E commerce and how production works, now that we're so sophisticated.

[Dennis Scully]

We know, of course, we're working on spring 26. What else?

[Lindy Galloway]

Of course, yes. Talk to us A year ago, man. So, yeah, yeah. Now it's, you know, we. You just. So many things to figure out. But yeah, the production just takes a significant time. So when you're doing it for our house, we really had to learn what that process looks like and how long it takes.

[Dennis Scully]

So tell me about the readed texture, because that's what so many people point to specifically with regards to. To your line. And from what I'm told from the design community, it's having a big moment.

[Lindy Galloway]

It sure is. I mean, as a designer, I'm always trying to anticipate what's happening in two years. Right. So I know that in two years we gotta find. And you know, we are working on what that next readed thing is going to be. But redid is one of those things that I feel like allows pieces to still have a timeless feel, but have that character and that depth that wasn't offered before. I think now we're seeing it not only in furniture, but in, you know, obviously designs. We, you know, are doing it on cabinetry, hoods of ranges, and there's a lot of ways that it can be incorporated, from wood to plaster to Roman clay. There's just so many applications that you can do for it. And I Think it's one of those things that has this simplicity to it that also elevates a room significantly. And it's kind of like that quite luxury type of vibe. And I think that it's something that maybe even kind of gave a different perspective to what our design world could offer. And I think that's why it has had such an explosion in our industry because it, it adds just something different than say a white shaker cabinet would.

[Dennis Scully]

So when coming back to you for, for a moment, I'm wondering about the financial side of all of this because it. I'm sure that this required a sizable investment and some financial risk. Is, is the design firm helping to fund all of this or tell me how you're navigating it from a financial perspective.

[Wynne Galloway]

We are really trying to just responsibly grow the E Commerce side of the business. So we're not carrying a ton of inventory, but thankfully we've been able to just kind of grow both at the same time and watch it work together.

[Lindy Galloway]

But if anyone would like to come in and offer $40 million for free, I'm open to it.

[Wynne Galloway]

Yeah, we'll take that. Yeah, we will take that.

[Dennis Scully]

Okay. I mean, that was going to be my next question. I mean, are you at a point where you think you do want to take some outside investment or have you seen some of the experiences in this space and how often they haven't worked out too well? That gives you a little bit of pause. But tell me how you think about it.

[Wynne Galloway]

Yeah, I mean we are in a position now where we are starting to think about what it looks like to scale the shop at a much faster rate. And so I think you can scale things too quickly to the point where, okay, now we have way too much inventory and you can actually put yourself in a position where you're in trouble and you can't fulfill the demands that your clients are expecting of you. And so I think it's balancing those. But there is obviously an inflection point, one that we're probably reaching here sooner than maybe we even realize where, where outside investment, outside capital, but also outside expertise could be really helpful in helping us accomplish our goals.

[Dennis Scully]

But when staying with the challenges of E commerce for a moment, we have seen a lot of. So a bunch of designers got into it during COVID and then kind of backed out of it, realizing it's a lot more challenging or it requires a lot more investment or there were a host of different reasons. And we've seen some of the bigger E Commerce design related sites Struggle a bit in the industry for various reasons. As you were saying, inventory, one of them, cash flow, the money running out, whatever it is. What's your sense of why you think this is such a challenging business and how have you been able to navigate it more successfully?

[Wynne Galloway]

I think one of the biggest challenges that I find, particularly in, in E commerce when it comes to furniture, is two things come to mind. One, when you're buying a $4,000 dresser, it'd be really nice to be able to touch it. How do you trust that this is a quality piece of furniture? How do you trust that this is worth the investment without actually being able to physically see it? And the second thing is the consideration period of what it takes to buy a piece of furniture like that. We're not marketing a T shirt on Instagram where it's a flash in the pan sale, where it's, oh, I need that, I buy it, it's $50. This takes time. You, you need to talk to your spouse. You need to measure the room. You maybe want to order a sample to make sure you feel good about the color or the finish. When you're talking about really nice furniture, it. It just helps so much to be able to see it, to sit on it, to, to open the drawers, you know, whatever it might be, depending on.

[Lindy Galloway]

The piece to get a different sense of what the quality is versus something you might see that is in the marketplace that, you know is cheaper. Like sometimes someone purchasing can kind of be of course, deciding between that. But when you actually get to feel the piece, it does make it different. We always joke that our dressers. There was one dresser we have that's literally £400. And so we took video of it because everyone's always like, how much does it weigh? Because I get it, you're on Wayfair and it's going to weigh like two pounds. And we're like, look at these five guys having to carry this 400 pound dresser. We promise it's solid white oak. It's the real deal.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, so it sounds as though you think that the next step is some kind of a retail location and perhaps you're pretty far along in your thinking. Yes.

[Wynne Galloway]

Yeah, I mean, we're, we're committed to being able to find a space here in 2025. That's the goal. And I think that that's gonna, it's gonna be a local thing here in the Orange county area, but we just believe that. I don't know if you've heard the term the halo effect, but I think that that's real is just the halo effect of having a physical space that might not even be a huge revenue source in that physical space. But I think that people being able to see it will result in more sales, potentially on E Commerce, or maybe in person as well. But I do think that it's needed and people need to see this stuff in order to see the quality.

[Dennis Scully]

How did what you're doing, Lindy, get on RH's radar originally? How did that come about?

[Lindy Galloway]

I designed this nightstand that sits in our bedroom, actually, and it's got these curved sides and this reeded front. And it became one of our best sellers. And all of a sudden, we get a dm looked into it, and it turned out Gary, who's the CEO, an amazing visionary for the brand, had seen it on Pinterest or Instagram and told his team, we gotta reach out to. We gotta reach out to Lindy, and we gotta see what it would look like to partner on this piece. From there, they said, hey, let's build this out. So now it got built out into many different categories. So, you know, the nightstand, the dresser, the OGs, and then to a desk, a hutch, a console, tons of different pieces. And the response has been so great in the last month or two of it being out there was kind of like a quiet launch at first on their website, and then it became a big wider launch at their Newport beach opening of the store, where it was featured in three different rooms.

[Wynne Galloway]

Yeah.

[Lindy Galloway]

And I think I can say this part. I think that over the last couple months that it's been out there, it's been received very well. So we are expanding the collection again with RH and doing more categories like dining beds, a handful of different ones. I'm in the process of designing alongside them. Well, designing and collaborating with them on.

[Dennis Scully]

So how long did it take from that original DM reaching out to you to bringing the product to fruition?

[Wynne Galloway]

They're a lot faster than we are.

[Dennis Scully]

They move things along. Yeah, they sure do.

[Wynne Galloway]

So, I mean, seven months. They're so quick.

[Dennis Scully]

Seven months.

[Wynne Galloway]

Really, really fast.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah.

[Wynne Galloway]

Yeah.

[Dennis Scully]

And then for you. So then that product line becomes theirs, or is that still something that you can show on your own? Or. Now that's part of the rh.

[Lindy Galloway]

That's theirs. That's part of the RH collection alongside us. Yep.

[Fred Nicholas]

Okay.

[Lindy Galloway]

Yeah.

[Dennis Scully]

And some new things that you're designing as well will also be exclusively for them.

[Lindy Galloway]

Correct. Exclusively for them in our partnership with them.

[Dennis Scully]

And did you have to sort of fly around and meet with a bunch of people or how did it all from a design perspective, how did you work with their, with their team?

[Lindy Galloway]

You know what's so funny is we are, we're going to visit them I think in February, but that will be our first trip to see any of them. We worked a lot online together. Zooms, of course, and then sending renderings back and forth and getting feedback, feedback from different elements of, you know, things that they were kind of envisioning with say a hutch. But then I would kind of make sure that it still had the tune of what the original design and feel was and then them giving feedback as well. So it's been a really great partnership of really them understanding kind of from a design perspective what I want to continue to hold with it and us learning from their expertise and perspective on what they know their audience to love and, and being able to bring that together.

[Dennis Scully]

Wyn, how do you find yourself feeling about the coming year in terms of business and what the climate's like? A lot of people are trying to put their finger in the air and judge how the next year is going to be. Gary Friedman himself has talked for the past more than a year about the challenges in the high end home industry and Holmes not turning over at the rate that they once were, although he seems like he's more optimistic about the coming year. But what, what's your sense?

[Wynne Galloway]

It's a great question. I wish I had a crystal ball to give you a really good answer. We've got great kind of partners with architects and other builders and kind of referral sources built in. And so I feel really good about that part of the market because I think that in, in that world someone is always winning someone somewhere and those people are building houses and we were open for business and so we feel really good about that world. I think that we're just going to, when it comes to the E Commerce business, again, just really sustainably trying to scale it. I think the benefit of being really small and having a team of six of us is that we only need so much sales in order to reach a level of profitability to continue doing what we're doing.

[Dennis Scully]

Okay. And, and, and Lindy, anything you want to, anything you want to add there.

[Lindy Galloway]

The wild card, you know, is always going to be E Commerce, I think. And I think that's just part of the, like, I, I can't believe I'm going to say it but like just the excitement. We've always experienced many ups and downs in life. After a year of being married, we Moved into my parents and 300 and so I think that we've just naturally been a couple that just wants to see what we can do in the world. And, you know, maybe there's going to be a time we're moving back in with my parents, hopefully not, but we're on the right trajectory to not be. But I think that that is something that maybe makes part of what we do unique as well, is our ability to just kind of pivot and go with the flow in risk and take the right moves. And also with a team that is scrappy, I mean, you cannot have an econ commerce team of six people or a studio team of our size two without these people being the kind of people that are team players that jump into anything, that wear multiple hats. And I think our ability over the last handful of years to really identify the right people to partner with us on both sides of the business has been absolutely huge. I mean, just the kind of talent that we've got has also been a huge part of our ability to succeed.

[Dennis Scully]

What do you find helps you to stand out and what does resonate with people that keeps them coming back to you?

[Lindy Galloway]

I think ultimately I would bring it all back to the root of why I got started in this, and it's design. I think that, yes, you can get a lot of different things on a lot of different websites, but we're not trying to reach everyone. We're trying to reach those that have the same love for design that we have, and those people show up. But I think that our commitment to that innovation piece has been what has made us always stand out. The details we put in, the custom approach, the sense of it not just being, you know, a piece we can turn over, that's going to be too safe. We're always taking a little bit of risk here and there. I'm not going to lie. Some of those risks have not turned out, but I won recently because we have this bench that everyone was like, this is going to be a flopper. It was not a flopper. It did really well. So the team is slowly trusting my choice. But you gotta have those moments where you take a risk and you have to have those moments where you stay a little bit more on the safer side, too. But I think design is what has always been the core of our success and our standing out.

[Dennis Scully]

And, Wynne, my last question for you is we talked earlier about customer acquisition, and it gets a lot more challenging on the conversion side when the price points go up. And I'm wondering where you're finding the most success right now in bringing customers to you. Where are people responding to you the most at the moment? Because, again, this is something that everyone is struggling with.

[Wynne Galloway]

I would say that our biggest success and our biggest chance of converting someone is actually the person sitting next to me, which is Lindy. Well, it's true. Uh, we've realized that the one thing that we have that everybody doesn't have is that we have Lindy. And so she has a knack and an ability to get on camera and to talk about pieces. She's really warm and engaging in that space. And so we've realized as a team that we need to utilize her as much as possible if we actually want to be successful. And so that. That's the thing that.

[Fred Nicholas]

That.

[Wynne Galloway]

That I feel like we have. That help helps give a. I guess, a trust to the products that we're selling is that Lindy is backing them up.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Fred Nicholas]

Okay.

[Dennis Scully]

So the social selling side is really what seems to be the most powerful.

[Wynne Galloway]

Yeah. I mean, it always has been for us, and I think it will continue to be that, especially as we have different collaborations coming out, like rh. I mean, that just. I trust Lindy Moore now. You know, she's got a collection with rh.

[Dennis Scully]

You're even more impressed with her designs. Yeah, sure. I liked them before, but now that they're in rh, really? Wow. She really can design.

[Lindy Galloway]

I finally got the stamp of approval.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes. Well, Gary Friedman, he is. Right. He's a good stamp of approval. So that is a good stamp of approval. Yeah. No, no, that's a huge moment for you both, obviously, and congratulations again on that. That's terribly exciting, and how fun for you to get to experience it at the grand opening and all of that. And I hope it catapults the business to great things. Congratulations on everything that you're doing, and thank you both so much for making the time to come and talk with me about it.

[Lindy Galloway]

Thank you so much. So happy to be here. This was fantastic.

[Wynne Galloway]

Yeah, it was really fun. Thank you.

[Dennis Scully]

My pleasure. And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here, but before we go, we'd like to take a second and to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Fred, what caught your eye?

[Fred Nicholas]

Ryan Wadups caught my eye this week. Dennis. Fellow design journalist Ryan Watts. Ryan, I think, is most closely associated with Surface magazine's daily newsletter, and he's done such a great job over the past few years making it into, like, a really fun must Read. Obviously, Business of Home is your first must read, but Surface has historically been a really good read, I think largely because. Because Ryan did such a good job making it really fun. And now he's leaving. He's headed to Gallery magazine to be their deputy design editor. So just wanted to give Ryan a shout out, and I'm excited to see what he does over at Gallery because he did a great job really making Surface fun. And so Gallery's already fun, but it could only be funner. So shouts to Ryan. What caught your eye this week, Dennis?

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah, absolutely. Shout out to Ryan, a big fan. I can't wait to see what he does. What caught my eye, Fred, is just as we're getting ready to record the show, what gets dropped but the AD100 list for 2025 big, big names in the industry, including this week's podcast guest, Andre Malone, and some newcomers to the list that include Heidi Collier. We're a big fan of Heidi, so congratulations to her and Alyssa Capito as well. First time on the list, and so I didn't get to look through the whole thing yet, but I think we should talk about it in the future. Did you have a chance yet to catch a glimpse?

[Fred Nicholas]

Well, they didn't send it to us in time for me to look before. How rude of them not to time their release schedule to our podcast recording. I saw Heidi was on it, which I thought was obviously very well deserved and what a talent she is and how far she's come in just a few years. So that was the main thing that jumped out at me. A lot of names that were unfamiliar to me, which kind of makes me excited to check, check out some of these firms that I've never heard of. So I'm excited to dive in deep and maybe we can talk about it next week.

[Dennis Scully]

Absolutely. A lot of former podcast guests were on the list, so congratulations to all of them and as you say, some names that I wasn't overly familiar with. So hopefully we'll get to know them better by having them on the show and talking with them. So congratulations all around. All right, that's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings or take a workshop, visit us [e-mail] if you want to get in touch with the show, write to [e-mail] this episode was produced by Fred Nicholaus and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend, and we'll be back with you on Monday.