What Emma Sims-Hilditch learned from Ridley Scott about running a business

Summary

Podcast Summary: Business of Home Podcast Episode: What Emma Sims-Hilditch Learned from Ridley Scott about Running a Business
Host: Dennis Scully
Guest: Emma Sims-Hilditch, Founder of Sims Hilditch
Release Date: June 16, 2025

---

Introduction to Emma Sims-Hilditch

In this engaging episode of the Business of Home Podcast, host Dennis Scully sits down with Emma Sims-Hilditch, the British interior designer and founder of the London-based studio, Sims Hilditch. Renowned for its timeless, country-informed aesthetic, Sims Hilditch's firm boasts a staff of over 30 and undertakes projects both in the UK and internationally. Emma's unique journey from set design in the film industry under director Ridley Scott to establishing a leading interior design practice provides valuable insights into balancing creativity with business acumen.

---

The Intersection of Art and Interior Design

Emma delves into the profound impact that art can have on interior spaces. She emphasizes the dynamic change that artwork introduces, especially when juxtaposed with antique or contemporary furniture pieces.

Emma Sims-Hilditch [02:03]: "Art for me is such a big part of decorating and it can really change a space so dramatically."

Emma highlights how starting with art allows her team to personalize spaces according to clients' collections, whether they include photography, Aboriginal art, or classical pieces. This approach ensures that each project reflects the client's unique tastes and history.

---

Collaborative Relationships with Architects

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the collaboration between interior designers and architects, a model more commonplace in the United States than in Britain. Emma explains how Sims Hilditch aligns its processes with the Royal Institute of British Architects (RIBA) stages, promoting seamless cooperation between her firm and architectural partners.

Emma Sims-Hilditch [05:03]: "When it comes to collaborating, I think we work best in a collaborative way."

By delineating responsibilities—letting architects focus on exterior designs while her team handles detailed interior elements like kitchens and bathrooms—Sims Hilditch ensures both aesthetic harmony and functional efficiency in their projects.

---

Navigating the British Design Market

Emma addresses the cultural nuances of the British interior design industry, noting that unlike in the States, where designers often serve as status symbols, British clients may prefer a more understated acknowledgment of design services. This cultural distinction presents both challenges and opportunities in building a reputable design firm.

Emma Sims-Hilditch [04:59]: "We want to try and get all the sort of cost conversations right out there on the table very early on."

To overcome potential client hesitations, Sims Hilditch emphasizes transparency in pricing and a clear alignment with RIBA stages, fostering trust and ensuring clients are comfortable with the project's financial aspects from the outset.

---

Building a Robust and Organized Business Structure

One of the standout features of Sims Hilditch's success is the well-organized structure of her business. Emma credits much of this to her early experiences in the film industry, where meticulous attention to detail was paramount.

Emma Sims-Hilditch [09:28]: "Everything is organized, there's no clutter, and there's a place for everything."

By segregating operations from design, employing specialists in finance, and implementing a partnership model, Emma has cultivated a dynamic and scalable business. Her team operates with autonomy, allowing designers to flourish and fostering a collaborative environment that prioritizes creativity without sacrificing organizational integrity.

---

The George Clooney Effect and Studio Culture

Emma introduces the concept of the "George Clooney effect," an organizational philosophy where the studio maintains impeccable cleanliness and order, anticipating the possibility of any high-profile visitor dropping by unexpectedly.

Emma Sims-Hilditch [39:06]: "I want our studio to be George Clooney ready."

This playful yet effective approach ensures that the workspace remains conducive to creativity and professionalism, reinforcing the studio's commitment to excellence in both design and operational standards.

---

Overcoming Challenges and Future Aspirations

Despite the firm's growth, Emma acknowledges the ongoing challenge of managing time and maintaining focus amidst numerous opportunities and distractions. However, with strong leadership and a clear organizational framework, Sims Hilditch continues to thrive.

Looking ahead, Emma is excited about the firm's potential to expand internationally, particularly into the United States. She discusses strategies for entering new markets, including leveraging existing international projects and partnering with local architects to facilitate smooth transitions.

Emma Sims-Hilditch [57:06]: "I would be so excited to work in the States. I feel like our aesthetic would hopefully work well."

---

Emphasizing Team Development and Professional Growth

A core component of Sims Hilditch's business philosophy is investing in team development. Emma underscores the importance of ongoing professional development (CPD) and effective communication skills among her designers.

Emma Sims-Hilditch [69:42]: "How to get into the psyche of your client and how to understand from their perspective what they might be thinking."

By providing training that enhances both technical design skills and client interaction abilities, Emma ensures her team remains competent, confident, and capable of delivering exceptional service to clients.

---

Conclusion: A Harmonious Blend of Creativity and Business Acumen

Emma Sims-Hilditch's journey from a set designer under Ridley Scott to leading a successful interior design firm exemplifies the harmonious blend of creativity and business savvy. Her emphasis on collaboration, organization, and continuous team development offers valuable lessons for aspiring designers and entrepreneurs alike. Through transparency, a strong organizational structure, and a commitment to nurturing talent, Sims Hilditch has established a firm that not only delivers beautiful, functional spaces but also fosters a supportive and innovative workplace culture.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Emma Sims-Hilditch [02:03]: "Art for me is such a big part of decorating and it can really change a space so dramatically."
• Emma Sims-Hilditch [04:59]: "We want to try and get all the sort of cost conversations right out there on the table very early on."
• Emma Sims-Hilditch [09:28]: "Everything is organized, there's no clutter, and there's a place for everything."
• Emma Sims-Hilditch [39:06]: "I want our studio to be George Clooney ready."
• Emma Sims-Hilditch [57:06]: "I would be so excited to work in the States. I feel like our aesthetic would hopefully work well."
• Emma Sims-Hilditch [69:42]: "How to get into the psyche of your client and how to understand from their perspective what they might be thinking."

---

This episode offers a comprehensive look into the strategic and creative processes that have propelled Sims Hilditch to the forefront of the interior design industry. Listeners gain valuable insights into building a successful design business that balances artistic vision with practical execution.

Transcript

[Dennis Scully]

This is business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking with leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is British interior designer Emma Sims Hilditch, founder of the London based studio Sims Hilditch. Known for its timeless country informed aesthetic, the firm is the subject of an upcoming book, Beautifully British Interiors, out this September. Emma began her career in film working in set design for director Ridley Scott. After moving to the English countryside to raise a family, she launched a curtain making business that evolved into one of the UK's leading design practices. Today her firm has a staff of more than 30 and works on projects across Britain and abroad. I spoke with Emma at Chelsea Harbour in London where the wow House Show House is currently on display, about the subtle differences between American and British clients, how she organizes her office around what she calls the George Clooney effect, and why the most challenging part of her business is choosing what not to do. This podcast is sponsored by Ernesta. Summertime projects are here. Get your clients ready for backyard gatherings and downtime on the patio with Ernesta's custom sized outdoor rugs. Expertly crafted with plush fade resistant fibers and elevated designs, each rug is made to fit and delivered in as little as two weeks. Join Ernesta's exclusive trade program today and let their team of dedicated consultants handle everything from samples to quotes, streamlining your process every step of the way. Apply for [e-mail] BOH and now, on with the show.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

I mean, art for me is such a big part of decorating and it can really change a space so dramatically. So, you know, I love it when you mix with antique furniture and then you put a mid century piece or a really contemporary piece above, above a Louis Cator's commode or you know, a George George III piece. And then suddenly it kind of really changes the dynamic of the whole room.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, and I want to talk about that more because I think it can go the other way too. I think you can have this wonderfully contemporary room, right. And then have artwork from a whole other era and suddenly it takes it to a different place.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Exactly. And I think, you know, funnily enough with our clients we often start with the art because many of them have their own private collections. They don't have to be like super special collections, but they're personal to the client. And one of our clients who we've done a very beautiful project for up in Scotland, up in Perthshire recently, it's a newly built house, but it's a very classical house. He has an incredibly diverse collection. You know, so we've got photography, we've got aboriginal art, and it's all going in this sort of 18th century Adam architecture designed house. So, yeah, it's really fun.

[Dennis Scully]

So Adam architecture is that they're the.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Guys who designed the facade.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

So Darren Price is a great friend and actually Robert Adam was the founder of the business and he designed this house that I'm talking about, I'm referring to. But he's actually retired now. But it's run by a fantastic team of directors who are all in their own sort of school of design and architecture. So you get different things with each personality. You can choose which architect you go for. We work a lot together. In fact, we just. We give him work and he gives us work. And it's nice. It's like a very collaborative process.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, so I was wondering about that because he and I were having this conversation actually about architects working with interior designers. Which is. Which is such an ordinary affair in the States.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yes.

[Dennis Scully]

But I don't know if that's the standard operating model here in Britain as much.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

I mean, I think everything in Britain is very different to the States.

[Dennis Scully]

Let's just start there.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Start there. I think the interior design industry has been in the past and even now today is actually sort of kept under the radar. And I think clients don't really want to necessarily say that they've used a designer. They're not proud of their designer in the way that you have this amazing way in America where the designer is such a person who you can say my house was designed by and then be proud of that house.

[Dennis Scully]

It can be a status symbol. Right. I've used so and so. Yeah.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

I mean, it depends. Different clients are happy to talk about it, but some like to keep it quite quiet. But when it comes to collaborating, I think we find that we work best in a collaborative way. So what's brilliant with Adam architects, for example, because they know us well, is at the beginning of a project, we'll sit down together around the table and we'll say, okay, who's going to do which part and element, which elements of the interior? We know Adam are going to do the exterior and the envelope of the building. But when it comes to kitchen designs and bathroom designs and the joinery, you know, maybe Sims Hilditch, pick that up and actually work with the clients on that because it's much more. It's a very different relationship that you build with a client when you're designing their dressing. Room, you know, and you're asking about how many pairs of socks and underwear and where they're going to store everything. And perhaps Darren or another architect might be more interested in a beautiful cornice or an incredible staircase than going into that sort of level of detail on the joinery. So we love doing the interior architecture.

[Dennis Scully]

So I want to better understand and hear from your perspective how people perceive working with an interior designer, why some people don't want to talk about it, and the sort of cultural aspect to all of that. How is the design industry perceived here? Is it thought of as a career path that is embraced? I mean, there are design schools here.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Part of the problem we face in our particular industry is that it's not really. There isn't one set way of working. And I think that really confuses clients. Many design studios will charge a retail price, others will charge a trade price and do a markup. There's no one way of doing it. And I think that immediately sort of sets us on the back foot because a client's like when they're trying to compare three different design studios, they'll all be doing it completely differently.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes. And you say it's so different, but that's exactly the problem in America.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Is it?

[Dennis Scully]

Yes.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Interesting.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes. Because there's all these different models.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

I know.

[Dennis Scully]

And recently I was having a conversation with someone who is building a firm trying to connect end user clients with designers, and she talked about wanting to give them a little bit of a 1, 101 instructional course in what the different models might look like and that you might encounter when you speak with an interior designer. So that's an issue here.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

It is an issue here. And I think we basically have aligned ourselves with, in many ways with reba. So we've looked at the Royal Institute of British Architects, and in terms of what we offer as our service now, we've basically aligned with the stages of Reba. So it's very nicely organized in the same way as the architect will be doing it. So when we're doing concept design for the interior, the architect, say Darren, or whoever it might be, will be doing concept design for the architecture. You know, the master plan, what the building's going to look like on the outside, and we're doing the same for the inside. Then we go into, you know, detailed design and we start to develop the design and they're doing the same, and then we go into technical design and that's when we will start drawing in all the detail of how that joinery is going to be made how big that vanity is, how, you know, what the boot room, the kitchen and everything going to be going to be like. So when it comes back to the charging, you know, we'll be charging for our work in those stages, and it's just nicely aligned, I think, if you can kind of align to Reba. We like to fix our fees because we believe that certainly the first three stages of our process, we fix our fees so we know how much time we're going to use. Because we've done many, many projects in the past. We take a really detailed brief, and then once we've had that detailed brief, there's no reason why we can't say, okay, we know it's going to cost X to do concept Y to do detailed design. And I think that really helps a client. It makes them reassured if your fees are not kind of, you know, dependent on how much they spend.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

So that's the only difference, perhaps, with us and an architectural practice, is that they might charge 10% of the overall construction charge for their fees. With us, we're actually trying to fix our fees at the beginning.

[Dennis Scully]

So does that mean that you have this. And I imagine you being as organized as you are, and we'll get into that, Emma, but do you have. Do have a wonderful historical database of sorts with all your past projects and sort of how much things have cost?

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yes, we.

[Dennis Scully]

Of course you do. Of course you do.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

We have so much data in our business, and that's thanks to Harriet, who's worked with me for over 10 years. She's one of our partners in the firm. She's our operations director. And what's so brilliant about Harriet is she literally is Ms. Microscopic Detail, and she can quote pounds per square foot on any type of project, any type of house. And often what we do is we actually show clients, so we have a catalog of imagery with the prices on the images. So we can say this room cost £50,000 or this room cost £200,000. And I think that's so reassuring for a client. Yes, because we want to be open and honest right from the start. What we don't want to do is to ever lead our client down a path which we then can't deliver on. And for us, it's all about that sort of trust building, that trust building, that honest approach to how we charge. We know it's going to cost X. Are you comfortable with that? And if you're not, how can we change it? So then we find another image and another design we've done, which might be in that sort of better rather than best category. So we want to try and, you know, get all the sort of cost conversations right out there on the table very early on. And it just gives that client so much reassurance and makes them able to relax and enjoy the process of designing a beautiful home, which, let's face it, a lot of our clients have worked all their lives so hard. This is the one thing that they are saving up for and dreaming of. And I want that journey for them to be pleasurable and memorable and happy.

[Dennis Scully]

I want to talk more about that because I'm also curious as to when you begin to talk about how much it's all going to cost.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yes.

[Dennis Scully]

It's interesting. So many designers have said to me, well, now, if that's the first question out of the client's mouth, then I'm a little bit worried about where this is going to go. Just because if that's what's top of mind for them or if that's what's driving all of this, then maybe we don't want to. Right. We don't want to go down the path together.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

No.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

I love being upfront and for me, if they're kind of in tune or they're thinking about that up front and they want to talk about it and converse with us about it, for me, that's a, that's a good sign, not a bad sign. I just feel like I wouldn't want to waste time going down a route where I've designed or specified something that then is not affordable.

[Dennis Scully]

Right, right.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

So for me, it's a really important part of taking the brief. And it's also sort of, at that point you can say, okay, we understand who this client is. We understand that this is maybe a holiday house. It's not their primary residence. And we're pragmatic designers. You know, we're not saying everybody is designing their dream home top of the range. Some people are designing a cottage or as I said, a holiday home in the, you know, a coastal property. It doesn't have to be the big castle or the manor house. I, I love the diversity that we have, and I think it's a really good exercise for the studio and for the designers to. To actually have to work on all sorts of different price point budgets. So. Yeah.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah. Well, more on that in a bit. But you and I were just talking about the fact that one of your daughters has actually gotten into set design. Yes. Which I'm really interested in in two parts, because part of why we're Talking. And where we're talking is wow House is going on. And you've built this incredible set essentially in wow House that is this breathtaking. Well, you tell me. I mean, it's every dog's dream. The room that you created.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

I know. I think we sort of came in at a very. We had a competition in the studio, an internal competition. It was really fun because we've got quite a big team. There's almost 40 of us in our studio and we sort of operate in four different, almost individual studios within the larger umbrella. So we have four design leads. And so we tasked each design lead and their little mini studio to come up with a concept for Wowhouse. And we had so much fun. But at the end of the day it always came back to the boot room and this back of very hard working spaces. And we've had such demand for people wanting dog showers recently. So we were like, let's do it. Yeah.

[Dennis Scully]

I love that. Well, it is the most beautiful dog shower I have ever seen. And the whole space. So it's a boot room. And is that sort of what Americans think of as the mudroom area?

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Okay, you call it a mudroom. We wanted this space to feel like you were walking in from the garden. You had your basket of flowers that you might have picked in the garden. You wanted a space to do some flower arranging. You needed a place to hang your coat and your wellies. And then obviously this incredible little dog shower room, which is kind of a dedicated space. We were inspired by the country houses of the historic country houses that we often get to work on. Very luckily we were inspired by those wonderful sort of Victorian, what we call back of house or downstairs rooms. You know, think kind of Downton Abbey.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes, yes. Or back in the day, upstairs, downstairs.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Which made it clear, remains of the day, that beautiful film. So these sort of rooms were divided by these wonderful glazed screens, often to bring borrowed light in from rooms that had windows. Because obviously these were the domestic rooms, they didn't have much light in them. So using these glazed screens was really clever. And we were talking about this wow house room and how could we do something special? And we came back to the whole DNA of what Sims Hilditch is about. And it's really the setting that we're in. It's the studio we built, we converted. We're unusual that we're right in the heart of the countryside. A series of wonderful Cotswold stone buildings in the rolling hills outside Bath. And we wanted to take that theme for the Delft tile. So We've designed a seasonal spring, summer, autumn and winter tile and they're all hand painted. And I think we used over 900 tiles in the wow House room.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, and how did you. I mean, my point about set design and think because doing a show house and a show house is. Is unusual, I gather here in it is right. There aren't. There aren't. There isn't a Kips Bay equivalent. I mean this is it really. Suddenly wow House is becoming that Kips Bay. Equ.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yes. Clare German has done an incredible job of that. So remarkably clear German Design Center. I think, you know, I started out in the world of set, of seeing set design on a very big scale when I first worked in the film industry. So before I was an interior designer, my first career, sort of early career was in film production industry and I was lucky enough to work for Ridley Scott and his team in the uk. So he had his movie making in LA and America and then he had his commercials company in London. So I worked there. It really was an incredible education because what I saw was that it's not just about the creativity making a movie or making a commercial. It's not about just creativity. It's about the organizational side, the production side that goes into it. And whether it's wow House that we've done here or a big project, it's. I'd say half of the job is organizational, half of it's incredibly creative. But yeah, that whole sort of education in set design made me think, you know, it's all about drama. You have to make your interiors dramatic. He taught me about scale and proportion, about, you know, for example, when you're choosing a chandelier or a lantern that we've got in our wow House, many people would. Many clients would choose size medium. But I went for size extra large. And I think those.

[Dennis Scully]

For the drama. Yes, for the statement.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yes, yes. Every room. One client who was creative director of Superdry, we had a client and he taught me something. He said, emma, I want every room to have a drama moment. And I've never forgotten that. And I think, you know, again, he was like creating sets almost with his stores. And I think this is kind of what we should be doing. We shouldn't be just doing average, boring, safe interiors. We should be pushing the boundaries through scale, through proportion, through color, through texture in the two rooms. So it's a sort of if you are lucky enough to come to wow House, which I hope you can, but in the two rooms that are either side of the main hall, we've created these little kind of cubicle rooms which have got these glazed screens and up in the ceiling. I really wanted to bring texture into those rooms. So we clad the ceilings with a fantastic oak, dark, rich oak, rough boarding, and it immediately transforms you into a different place, into a country space. And I think those are the little wow. Moments we kind of did in this room that made it feel special.

[Dennis Scully]

It's an extraordinary space, and I think in America, and we'll talk about this, but so many American designers are trying to capture what they think is quintessential English design.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yes.

[Dennis Scully]

Right. And part of it is the colors that you write, and part of it is just the feel that you create.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

We're quite an eccentric breed of people, the Brits. There's a sort of an extraordinary eccentricity about, I guess, you know, you've got that sort of very historical upper class, you know, landowner who would have owned his estate and had, you know, an incredible staff who ran the house. And I think that's the dream of what the British. Perhaps the British country house brings to it that no other country has. I mean, we worked on an estate up in Yorkshire a few years ago, and it had literally been run like, you know, Downton Abbey. It was extraordinary. It had its heyday. It had 35 staff in the house on the top floor, and the gentlemen of the men would sleep one side and they had their staircase, and then it was divided. And then the girls, the women who worked in the house would sleep the other side. And all their rooms, when I went there, they'd been completely untouched since the Victorian times. And the original wallpapers were still on the wall, these little tiny delicate floral prints and things. It was heaven.

[Dennis Scully]

Amazing.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

And our client had been in the house. His family had been in that house for 500 years. So you can't really find that in America. I guess we're lucky that we've got.

[Dennis Scully]

Country is only about half that old. So right away, you're not going to find houses that are exactly 500 years old.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

I know. I mean, I was brought up in a cottage in Sussex, which was, again, Elizabethan. So we're going back, you know, 500 years. Henry VIII was in power. And when my house. When my house was built and our house had a priest hole in the attic, it was thatched. And the house had a priest hall where, when Henry VIII was doing his dissolution of the monasteries and killing off all the Catholics, the Catholic priests, they hid.

[Dennis Scully]

They could come and hide out in those areas of the house. Yeah.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

So we had Literally this tiny. We uncovered it. I mean, we didn't know it was. We bought the house and we were in the attic doing. My parents were doing some renovation and they uncovered this priest hole and all these historians came round and were very excited about it. So these are the things that, you know, we are blessed with in. In England or in Britain, I guess, that make us who we are today.

[Dennis Scully]

So when you were. When you were growing up, you went to business school originally, if I remember.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yes, I did. You're right. Okay, well, going back a bit. A step back from there. So, yeah, I went to a traditional girls school and my mum was a super creative lady. I was basically brought up in this extraordinary family where my parents were really young when I was born and they were kind of 60s kids, you know, I was born in the 60s. They were very cool. My mom wore like amazing long leather boots with lace ups and like hot pants. But so when I was about 10, they were in their 70s. Period of decorating. Mum has always been a decorator. I would call her a natural. She's incredible with color. But in those days it was sort of brown swirly curtains. Formica kitchens. I don't know if you remember those horrible shiny brown curtains all too well.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes. Terrible memory.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

The 70s have slightly done a return, haven't they? But I'm not so keen on that trend.

[Dennis Scully]

I'm not ready to embrace a lot of that.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

No, but, no. So I was brought up in this very creative. My father was a beekeeper. He did the gardening. Vegetables. Very. Actually very modern. If you look now at what he did then, you know, he was all about organic farm growing. He used to have this bed frame in the garage that he did weaving on and he wove rugs.

[Dennis Scully]

You're kidding.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

And then my mum.

[Dennis Scully]

You mean just on the side or. This wasn't his.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

He was an insurance broker in the city of London. He's still alive. They're both still alive. And then my mum taught me to spin. So she used to. She had a business. She was quite kind of entrepreneurial. She created a little business called Sheep's Clothing and her strap line was you could be fleeced by us, which spelled ew.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

And. And so she taught me to spin. And so all these things that I learned as a child, we always had a kind of crafty, creative upbringing. And I think that's in my DNA and that's where it comes from.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, so no wonder, years later you're making curtains and you're stitching hammocks together, which we'll talk about. I mean, so. Of course. So you learned all of this at such a young age and you saw all of this creativity going on? Yes.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

So my granny was an artist and we used to go and stay with her and we'd do watercolor lessons with her and, you know, pen and ink. And my grandfather would be doing the picture framing. And I just always remember that smell of going into the framing studio which was in the house. And this smell of oil paints was just so wonderful. So whenever I smell it, I think of her.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah, it's wonderful.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

But, yeah, then I did go and study business because.

[Dennis Scully]

And did someone set you on that path? Did someone say, don't pursue any of this.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Go crazy.

[Dennis Scully]

Get a business degree.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Do you know what it was? It was as simple as the fact that at school I hadn't been advised to do art as a GCSE or an O level. In those days, I didn't do art. I did pottery or something else. I did pottery and needlework. And in order to get into art school in those days, you needed an art gcse and I didn't have it, so I couldn't go to art school. So that was the end of that. So then my friend said, well, I'm going to this cool school in Leicester Square in London. And I was like. All I could think of was, I want to go to London. I want to go to school in Leicester Square. And it was called the College for the Distributive Trades. I don't think it exists anymore because.

[Dennis Scully]

The name did it in. Do you think?

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

I know, yeah, exactly. It sounds terrible. And it was all about sort of business marketing and retailing and all those wonderful things. And then I ended up going into the advertising world and from there, production.

[Dennis Scully]

So help me make that leap. So you. You were on a path in advertising?

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yes.

[Dennis Scully]

How do you end up with Ridley Scott?

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Ridley Scott? Well, the advertising was because obviously I'd come in. I'd come in from business school. I'd gone and done a work placement at Leo Burnett, which was a big ad agency.

[Dennis Scully]

Sure.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

But I saw. I saw the production side. So I'd go on a shoot and, you know, in the ad agency, it was all sort of men in suits. And then I'd go on this shoot at Pinewood and I'd see what the guys in the production team were doing and I'd go, I want to be that side of the fence.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

And so then I just switched careers, went and found a job starting as a runner receptionist at Ridley Scott. And you know, God knows how I got in, but I managed to get a place there. Answering the telephones. I was always terrified when Ridley rang. I had to go and buy his cigars. Oh, Tony, actually Ridley's brother. They'd fly in from la, having just been making an amazing movie like Thelma and Louise was the big one, I remember.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

And they'd appear and I would have to make their tea and coffee. And I even learned to prick the tulip stems of the flowers. Cause I had to go and do the flower arranging in the office. They spent a fortune on flowers in those days.

[Dennis Scully]

And you were pricking the tulip stems.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Tulip stems to the stop the heads dropping. Because otherwise they'd droop.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

I never knew this as a trick until.

[Dennis Scully]

This was one of the things that you had to learn to help run the office.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

It was. And we would be there till 11 o' clock at night. Photocopying, typing out call sheets in those days, all on a typewriter. And if you made a mistake, then you had to start all over again. You know, it was like. It was horrible. And also if you made a mistake. I learned about detail. The devil is in the detail there. Because if you got the phone number wrong of the catering company on the call sheet. Of course, if you got one digit wrong, you were in big trouble because the catering company couldn't be called when they were on the shoot. It was really amazing training. It was a bit Devil Wears Prada. I wondered was that kind of place. But that's why they were the best.

[Dennis Scully]

What do you rise to do before you.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Oh, gosh, I was a production assistant. You were a production assistant working on commercials. And so you were at Pinewood Levi's or Levi's or Amex or. They would. They just did these huge commercials. They were incredible. So anyway, I met John and while I met. While I was in the industry, I met John and I realized. I looked around the office at Ridley Scott and I saw all these women in their 30s, 40s, 50s, none of them. Very few of them were married. Very few of them had time for relationships. And for me, it was a bit of a light bulb moment.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

When I said, that is not what I want to be. I don't want to be stuck in an office like this. And I want a family, I want to have a husband, I want to have a relationship. So that I put that first at that point in my career. I was only like 25. Met John, fell in love.

[Dennis Scully]

Captain John.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Captain John. He was a soldier at the time, in the British army, in the Coldstream Guards. He was so handsome. He was guarding Buckingham Palace.

[Dennis Scully]

His uniform. He was guarding Buckingham Palace.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

I mean, come on, his bearskin hat.

[Dennis Scully]

On, who wouldn't fall for Catherine? Captain John, right.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

I mean, he was very hunky and he. He was.

[Dennis Scully]

So how did you.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Actually, I mean, a friend, a great friend of mine was a mutual friend of his and we went to Pippa Funnel, who's a inventor in the horse world. She's a three day event, a very famous lady now. We went to this 21st birthday party of hers and our friend Rosie introduced us at sort of midnight and it was love at first sight.

[Dennis Scully]

Aw.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

I know. And we both, our dream was to go and live in the country. So we did. We picked up our belongings and said, right, we're leaving London, we're going out to live in the countryside. We both wanted to start a family and that was the beginning of everything. Everything changed from that point.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

We managed to buy this fantastic, completely derelict house built in 1790. It was three workman's cottages which had been converted into a school in the 1970s and it still had the sitting tenant in the little side cottage who was in his 80s and he was a salt of the earth man. He'd never left the village where we lived. He'd been to school in the village and he stayed with us as our neighbor while we converted the cottage. Everybody said to us, don't do it, you're crazy. How can you even imagine doing this building work? You know nothing about building. And John and I were just like, no, we're going to do it. You know, we're like, why would we not do it? We love the idea of being creative. And he was a bit of a closet. John's a closet engineer, architect, and he won't mind me saying he's a bit ocd, but, you know, that's why we are where we are.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

So we set up home there, had our kids and we both needed to start a new job. He wanted to leave the army, I wanted to earn some money and I started to learn to make beautiful curtains. And that's where my career began, on the kitchen table making curtains. And my next door neighbor happened to be quite a famous musician, pop star called Roland Ausubel from Tears for Fears.

[Dennis Scully]

Oh, my goodness, really?

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

So that was my big break. I made all his curtains for his house in St. John's Wood and then he asked me to do his home in a lovely rectory actually, near us. And I ended up Having some pretty cool clients off the back of that.

[Dennis Scully]

Off the back of referrals from him.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yeah, yeah. It all sort of. Yeah.

[Dennis Scully]

So how did. Tell me the whole curtain thing quickly because I mean, it's such a, it's such an amazing story that you're literally making curtains on the kitchen table.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

And suddenly I had three children and I was. I'd learned to make these curtains. I didn't even have a workshop. I had to do it in home. We were like, we didn't have any money. It was like we needed me to earn the living while John was coming up with his ideas. So I was busy making curtains. Every time I had to feed the kids, I had to lift all the curtains off the table, wipe it down. I was making curtains from beautiful Percheron silk fabrics, you know, and it was quite scary, but somehow we managed it. I didn't have too many mistakes.

[Dennis Scully]

Did you have to take a course? I mean, how did you even. Yes, I did.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

I did a course. I funnily enough, I did a very, you know, it's quite a basic course, adult education center.

[Dennis Scully]

Okay.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

It wasn't a smart course. It wasn't something like with Colfax or one of the, you know, it was just a really great foundation in how to make interline, hand stitched, hand headed curtains. Which is. If you go to any English country house, any sort of stately home and you look at the way the curtains are made, it is, it's an art.

[Dennis Scully]

So this, this incredible. I'm making curtains, suddenly I'm working for tears, for fear. Suddenly I'm getting all these referrals from them. Right. And suddenly you've got, you've got a client base and people want more than just curtains.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Exactly. And that's where it got quite. That's where I'd say I needed a partner in crime. And that was John, who basically he wasn't a business partner, but he was my, he really was my sort of. He pushed me, he encouraged me, he helped me so much. And if I look back, I probably would still be doing curtains today if it wasn't for him. Because he really believed in, in me and he helped figure out what is the first step you take. And is it really terrifying to employ someone who can do your technical drawings for you? No, it's not. Of course you need to do it. Of course you need to get help with your bookkeeping because I'm not a bookkeeper. It was that realization. It's that point at which you jump off the diving board and you say I'm now going to spend some money on people to help accelerate the business. And it's that point. At what point do you do that? A lot of people ask that question. I feel like my business is only as good as it is because of it's the people in the business that create something really special and the diversity of the team. And it's not about me. It's 100% not about me.

[Dennis Scully]

We're taking a quick break to remind you about Ernesta. Immerse your clients in elevated design with Ernesta's curated collection of custom sized rugs. With unlimited complimentary samples, exclusive trade discounts, and personalized support from a dedicated team of consultants, Ernesta makes it easy to explore options and bring your creative vision to life. To apply for membership or learn more or visit ernesta.com boh and now back to the show. And I want to talk about that more because you've got a very interesting structure to your business and how you've put it all together. So is it about 2009 when you start?

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yes, exactly. Yeah. I mean, I always say it's about 25 years ago, but funnily enough, 20, 25 years ago, but funnily enough, time keeps passing and so it'll be 30 years soon. But yeah, John set up Neptune, his business. It'll be 30 years next year. And I was starting my curtain business at the same time, but I guess Sims Hilditch made a big change about 12 years ago. So I'd been working at home, as you know, on the kitchen table. And gradually I needed to employ people. And I got to a point where there were eight of us working there in the sitting room. And John literally would freak out. He'd go, you know, when are they going to leave? When can we have our home back? When, you know, what time are you leaving the office tonight, Emma? Because everyone in the kitchen is waiting for you to cook supper. You know, it was all that kind of thing. And it was like that horrible muddy water of mixing business and home life and the challenges that brings and the stresses it can bring. And I feel like it was a natural point for me. Although he did pretty much say, come on, let's get you out of here and find you somewhere to go. But I was ready for it. I had eight staff. I was really excited about the future and I felt like I needed something of my own. So I had this realization that what people wanted and what they loved was coming home to my home to see what the clients loved was coming into our kitchen. And having a cup of coffee and, you know, show them the schemes and stuff. So I had to recreate that. I couldn't go and work on a trading estate or in an office in Chippenham or Bath, the local towns. I didn't know how I was going to do it and I didn't know how I could afford to do it either. Every day, as I took my kids to school, I passed this old pub which was actually a farm. It was an old farm building on the main road, 200 years old, grade two listed, so it was quite a historic building. It looked terrible. And the owner, who was trying to sell this building, had sheeted up all the windows so you couldn't see anything. We went to look at it, basically. It was incredible. I could see immediately I had this vision. It was 5,000 square feet. We bought it for, I think about £300,000. So it was a really good buy. And then we got to work on designing it. And it was the most amazing project because we were sort of thinking of how we could create a home in this studio which would have kitchens, it would have a lovely lofty barn feel where all the team could have lunch every day. It had a three acre site of gardens which we created. It was nothing, it was just a field. But we wanted our team, our staff, we wanted the people working for us to feel immersed in what we live and breathe, in the beauty of design and to be very creative there. And we knew that your surroundings really do affect your creativity. And without beauty in your surroundings and beauty in your everyday life, how can you be creative for people and create these beautiful homes if you're sitting in a white box? Anyway, so the studio now really does have. It has all these different spaces. So the teams have beautiful desks. We have a clear desk policy. So at night we have the George Clooney effect.

[Dennis Scully]

Tell me more.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Do you want to know what that is?

[Dennis Scully]

Yes.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

So I love George Clooney and I said to the team, I want you to think that at any point, day or night when you're here, George could walk in the door, he might stop by, he could stop by and ask for a couple of coffee. So I want our studio to be George Clooney ready.

[Dennis Scully]

And has he ever just stopped in for a cup of tea?

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

No. Yeah. But I am hoping maybe you could arrange it.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, I think we, we could, we could talk to him. He's on Broadway right now. He's terribly busy, but he's, you know, he's looking for a break soon. I know and the English countryside sounds like just the prescription for him to recover for a bit. But so that's hilarious. So basically keep your desk nice and tidy because George Clooney might stop by at any moment and you don't want. Right, yes.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

And we're very obsessed by organization and we live and breathe organization. I think it's just creating that sense of calm, and that's what people say when they walk into a Sims Hilditch home, is that everything just feels calm. And I think that that's because everything is organized, there's no clutter and there's a place for everything. We've thought about where our clients are going to put their car keys, you know, where they're going to hang their coats when the kids come home from school with all their school bags and their cricket bats and their tennis rackets. Where's everything going to be stored? So to design these beautiful boot rooms and coat rooms and back of house rooms that are so important in a really functioning family life is going to de stress the parents because they're not going to be running around at seven o' clock in the morning saying where's my this or where's my that? Because everyone knows where they put things.

[Dennis Scully]

I want to talk about the building of your firm because even the name change from going from Emma Sim S Hilditch. Right. To just Sim Silditch was a conscious decision.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

It was.

[Dennis Scully]

That was made I don't know how.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Long ago, but it was probably when we came to the White House, when we, when we moved to the. The office address, the studio, the design studio. So again, thanks to John, really, because he has these great ideas, you know, he's. He said, look, Emma, I think we need to do this now. Now's a good time. Got a new address. We're doing new headed paper, we're doing new branding. Let's. Let's change the business name so it's not about me anymore. And honestly, it was the best decision because now I feel like Sims Hilditch stands on its own two feet. Most people know that I'm the creative founder of the business, but we've introduced this wonderful partnership scheme. Henry is our CEO. He's at the helm. He came from a retail background, marketing and retail. He worked at Ralph Lauren, organized all sorts of amazing events like Wimbledon and things like that with Ralph. I had had. My best friend was my managing director before that. So she'd done that role for about seven years and she was ex Burberry. So she had started to instill this Sort of management structure in the business. And the org chart, we call it the org chart. I don't know, organizational chart. And, you know, having these directors and having a great sort of structure to the business. So we'd already started that, but then when Henry came in, he was able to really, really take that and shift things and, you know, change things and work out that. Actually, what we needed in the studio were these what we call the studio leads. So we've got four very senior leads in the business who are. All have got incredible design credentials and backgrounds. So they are running their own little mini studio, really. And we've got four of these going on, but they're all working in the same. In the same office, really. But what's so lovely is that we have this sort of different style and aesthetics between them, where some of them are slightly more contemporary or one loves color. So when a new client comes in, we can actually almost match up the client to the little mini studio and say, actually, I think James would be perfect because this is a hotel project. It's working really well. And that's thanks to Henry, who has created this. This. So, and.

[Dennis Scully]

And roughly staff count, head count. How many people do you have?

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

We're kind of in the 30s up to. We've been up to sort of 38, but I think we employ a lot of wonderful ladies. It's funny how the interior design industry is full of girls in England, and then the architects are usually the men. So because we're interior design and interior architecture, we do have this kind of female presence. And a lot of them have families. We're in the country. A lot of people have moved to the countryside to start their home lives. And we love that. We love the fact that we've got many children now in the Sims Hilditch family, many babies. I think we've produced about 15. But what's so amazing is with this partnership scheme and this, we've created this an ability for our designers to stay with us forever because there's a future for them. It's not like they reach that kind of ceiling of a senior designer and then where did they go from there? They have to go and start their own business with us. They can, you know, they can stay and they can become a studio lead and then a director ultimately. And that's the kind of autonomy that we wanted to create, was to be able to have this partnership where the wonderful teams could feel like there was a really great sort of career path for them.

[Dennis Scully]

So in the partnership structure, and I think you Were saying there's eight partners now, it sounds like.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yes.

[Dennis Scully]

So eventually they can develop an ownership stake in the business.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Exactly right.

[Dennis Scully]

Depending on their tenure.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yes, exactly. Yes. We're sort of in the early stages of that now. So they share in the profitability, which is important. They have the opportunity to really affect their own income at the end of the day, you know, they look after the profitability of their project. They make sure that, you know, we deliver on time, on budget. Ultimately, we're working for very important clients and very special people. And their main priority is to be proud of what we end up delivering. Talking of delivery, we have Harriet, who's our superwoman, who we've talked about already. And I think a lot of design studios aren't set up in the way we are. We chose, thanks to that Ridley Scott training, I chose to divide the business into operations and design. And I felt like that was probably one of the best things we've ever done. So we employ people who are trained in finance to run budget documents. Because why would you ask a designer to have to fill in a thousand line spreadsheet and keep track of deliveries and procurement when actually that's not a.

[Dennis Scully]

Skill they have or want to have often? Right.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

A lot of design studios do teams to do that.

[Dennis Scully]

Tell me, first of all, what is your title or how are you referred to?

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

I'm a creative director. If ever they wanted to, they could shift me out, I guess, and I could become creative founder and maybe take another step back. But I'm very happy with my role now. And what I do in the studio is, is I'm able to basically oversee and review and encourage, nurture, mentor our design team. And that means I need to be free to go out and see the world. Because if I'm not able to do that and bring back my creative ideas to the studio, then we're never going to be fresh, new, interesting. Someone needs to go to the Met in New York and see the Sargent exhibition. Someone needs to. Luckily, it's me. Someone needs to go down to the Amalfi coast and visit the most inspiring hotels or travel across Europe. I love getting inspired by travel and I always have. Yeah. So I am currently very happy with my role. We've set up a design board, which is the other great thing that Henry introduced. So every week we have a team meeting where I am able to review all the projects in the studio and give. Give perhaps, you know, my advice on a scheme or, you know, have a look at it from a different perspective and think about scale as we've talked about before, proportions of furniture. I love looking at the schemes, but my team are so good at what they do. They're so creative. They kind of don't need me. I always wanted to be wanted. I always say I wanted to be wanted, not needed. I kind of feel like I've got to that place, space.

[Dennis Scully]

And how does that feel for you? So when so. So many designers tell me. The truth is, I have trouble pulling myself away from being part of every last little design decision. That's not a problem for you?

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

No. I was never one of those people. I was absolutely never a control freak. I don't think I'm a control freak. I mean, I'm definitely obsessed by the business, and I. I love what I do, but I am not one of those people who has to have the last say or has to have that authority. That just isn't the way I am. And I think by being able to be. To nurture this team and to be able to give responsibility to them is the best thing I could ever have done. Our value. We had our value statement written years ago. We wrote it together, John and I, and it's the same for both our businesses. It's aim high, do the right thing, do it together, and keep it real. And I think keep it real means have fun.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Don't get too stressed by it all. You know, we should be having fun in our lives, so how can we do that at work? And I feel like we do have a lot of fun at Sim Tilde. There's a lot of laughs.

[Dennis Scully]

So since we've described that, it hasn't been challenging for you to step away from the details. What has been challenging or what is still something that you're struggling with a bit that's harder for you than you might have even thought it would be?

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Just having enough time in the day, I think. I mean, I really feel like when I said the world is our oyster and we aim high and we. Where the sky's the limit, it's like actually saying, let's just keep focused on where we're going because there's so many distractions out there. Should we be doing another furniture collection? We're obviously doing a lovely one with George Smith. Now, all these collaborations take time, and for me, they're a huge creative output for me. But are they distracting? It's those kind of strategic business conversations that we have to have that I find. I don't find them challenging. I find them really interesting. But I think the main challenge is trying to Keep us reined in. Henry does that very well.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, and, and, and I want to talk about some of the things that Henry wants to make happen next because it sounds, and you and I have talked about this a little bit, it sounds like he wants to have the company become a B corp and, and all that.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

That, yes, means we've got, we're pretty much there. I mean, we are expecting to hear any day now about our, you know, being accredited, being a B corp. Is that right? Yes. So we've been through this year and a half journey. We've done so much form filling, we've done so much analysis on our business, we've had to really review the people, the planet and make sure that we're doing the best for the environment. So we have worked very hard on that. We've got a, a sort of focus group team who are in the studio. James runs that and he's responsible for our B corp. So he is making sure that every project is the best it possibly could be for environmental as well. And we're not just saying it, we're actually doing it. And I think that's the. We're very excited by B Corp. We even have our own bees in the studio. We have five hives of honeybees. And I think that, you know, that in itself, because bees are kind of becoming an endangered species. And without bees we wouldn't have pollination and then we wouldn't have any fruit and vegetables to eat. So it's actually really important, these things.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes, yes, it's all quite closely tied together. So going back to what we were talking about in the very beginning of the conversation, and this is the conundrum that I'm trying to understand. How on earth could you have built such a big firm if people don't want to celebrate using their interior designers? And so many Brits don't want to hire a designer or they pretend that they don't or. I don't know, is it all international clients? I mean, how have you done it, Emma? Knowing that culturally there's this resistance to working with a designer, at least here.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

In Britain, I think we've been lucky that we have attracted incredibly lovely clients and clients who appreciate what we do. It's not about shouting from the rooftops about what we do, it's more about them realizing that they need us. And I think actually British people do really appreciate interior designers. It's just that they're not like these sort of a list film stars that they are in the States. They're different. They're more practical people. They're more maybe. Well, certainly I feel like that's who we are. We're really just there to help. We're not there to be on a pedestal. We're there to help them deliver this.

[Dennis Scully]

Beautiful home, to show them how organized they could be. If only. If only they brought John in their lives.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Captain John.

[Dennis Scully]

If only they brought you and Captain John into their. Into their lives. And so while you're building this wonderfully successful design business, John is building this remarkably successful. What do we want to call it? I mean, it's a whole home.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yes, it's a whole home concept.

[Dennis Scully]

It's retail stores, it's online, it's one day going to be coming to America, but not immediately because a lot of things have to be worked out. But.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Exactly.

[Dennis Scully]

But it is. And you have somewhat been involved as the, what should we say, the creative director for that business. And it sounds like you were involved from the very early photo shoots for the business. Right. And all of that.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yeah. So it started on again on the kitchen table and actually I had my sewing machine out making my curtains and he needed, he and Giles, his business partner, who they're still partners today. They. And they still own the business. So it's a really lovely family business.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

But they needed someone to sew their first hammock, which was their first business idea, crazy one that it was. They did sell five and a half thousand hammocks.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes, Harrod sold a lot of hammocks.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Harrod sold a lot of hammocks in the first year. But they did realize that the British weather wasn't that clement for, for selling garden furniture. Garden products. And that's when I started to get quite interested because I was like, we need this, we need that. You know, there aren't companies out there making really well made furniture at an affordable price that's going to last. You know, that quality of design, nothing to trend set, you know, something that's really timeless. So I was sort of feeding them with all these ideas quietly and hoping that they would be able to make them. And suddenly they became, you know, products. And it was so exciting to see the evolution of how Neptune has grown from its early days to now a really beautiful kitchen furniture, home furniture and accessories brand. And it's really exciting to see the journey that they're on as well.

[Dennis Scully]

And I mean, I don't even remember how many stores there are now, but I mean it's.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

There's 30 in the UK and then they have about six. Six in Europe. They've got stores in Germany, in Paris. They've just opened a fantastic store outside Paris. There's stores in other countries, actually. They're sort of quietly selling all over the world, really. I mean, even in America. I know they have sold furniture to America. I'm not sure how it would work now so easily. But I think the difference with Neptune is it's this whole home concept. And the store teams are extremely good at helping create the designs as well. So they have very talented kitchen designers who can actually do beautiful drawings, beautiful concepts for kitchen as well as interior.

[Dennis Scully]

And maybe we'll see how close he is to thinking about America. I know he's still sort of thinking about.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yeah, yeah, it would be a dream, I think.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, and in a way, I mean, it's also a dream for your firm to do more work in the States. And what do you think that's going to take?

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Well, we've already done our first. We've had our first foray into working in the States. So I believe now, because we've done a. We worked in the uk, we designed a showroom for Chelsea Textiles, which she's an American, beautiful American textile and furniture brand. And I think that's been really eye opening and insightful. And, you know, there's a. It's a whole different world, American construction and, you know, just the whole design world is different. In America, things are even measured differently. So inches and feet.

[Dennis Scully]

Yes.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

But I would be so excited to work in the States. I feel like our aesthetic would hopefully work well. I think we've got the team to do it now and I've got lots of excited members of the design team who are desperate. We've worked with lots of American clients in the uk, so the natural next step would be to do something in the States, I hope.

[Dennis Scully]

And do you imagine that it's going to take actually having a physical office there? Do you imagine that it. I mean, or.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

I don't think it's necessary. I think, you know, we've proven that because we've worked in. We're currently doing a large project in Valencia in Spain with a great architect. We're doing another one in Portofino in Italy. So I don't see any difference. It's just, it's shipping, it's understanding tax laws, it's understanding how we dovetail in with the architectural firm and the construction. But I think, you know, if a client loves our aesthetic and they already have an architect in the States, then there's no reason why we can't partner with the architects in our very collaborative way that we do anyway and just run a project from our studio in England. Obviously, I'd love to go and set up something in the States. Where would you suggest we go, Dennis?

[Dennis Scully]

Well, it's such a tough decision and so often I think that people make that decision based on where they're getting pulled from. Right. So some people ended up opening an office unexpectedly in Florida, for example. Right. I mean, I think Rita Koenig had a key person who was going to leave. Exactly right. And so person said, I'm going down to Florida. It's great. Let's just open an outpost there and start there. And why not? I think that it really depends on where the business takes you, what I'm curious about. And so often we have conversations about these sort of key turning points in the business. When you started to get on more people's radar, was it, you know, was it it House and Garden putting you on the 100 list? Right.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

I mean, yes, here we are. I'm assuming it's very much thanks to House and Garden. We've been on that list for many years, along with another handful of wonderful magazines, including Country Life, country and Townhouse Magazine, Homes and Gardens. They're all so supportive of what we do and I think I'm very proud of that. I think the hopefully they feel like we're a good professional practice that they can recommend. And I think our professionalism and what we've talked about with our whole team and the structure and the org chart and how we've got this really strong leadership team means we are ready basically, we're ready to work more internationally. So I hope, I wonder to that.

[Dennis Scully]

Point, I mean, you do as you say, you've got an org chart, you've got a CEO, you've got, you've got finance people working on the cost side and all of the. There's a division of labor that's very sensible and I'm assuming that that's impressive to a lot of would be clients. They see the level of your organization and the structure.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Of course. I mean, I always say if you were going into business with anybody or giving them your money, you'd want to do your due diligence and check that they were a strong operating company. And whilst we're all in business to make a profit and that's obviously a goal and an end game, I think any person who comes to us as a client would be crazy to try and look for a company that wasn't profitable and that didn't have a good balance sheet and wasn't a strong organization. And so many of our clients are business people, so they really appreciate the organization they see when they come to us.

[Dennis Scully]

Earlier you mentioned if they like your aesthetic, that's a big part of it. Do you feel as though you have a look? Do you feel, I mean, and were you conscious of creating a signature look style? Oh, my gosh. That's a Sims Hilditch. Absolutely. I spotted it right away.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yes. It's weird. It's like a sort of accidental, haphazard way. I don't know how it happened, but there is a Sims Hilditch look, a DNA. But what I'm proud of and what I'm excited by is the projects where some of our younger members of the team design a room or a house. And I go up to it and I see the building or see what they've done and I'm like, really bowled over and I'm like, this is incredible because it's kind of Sims Hilditch twisted and turned in a slightly different way. We just did the old War off office. We did a fantastic apartment there, which is. We had to do it in eight weeks. It was a very quick turnaround.

[Dennis Scully]

Oh, my goodness.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Eight week turnaround for a show apartment there, which is going. It's on the market for 16 million. So it's a very special property, I guess in the center of London in the old War office.

[Dennis Scully]

Okay.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

And I wouldn't have designed that room that way. But equally, it wouldn't have been right for the client if I'd given them my design. It probably would have been maybe too traditional or too, you know, a different direction. But my team delivered an amazing brief. And that's what I love, is the diversity we have in the team. I think in any business, diversity is so important. Would you agree?

[Dennis Scully]

Well, absolutely. And so does that suggest then that it's less about a signature look and more just how the whole thing comes together and ends up? So it's not just about, as you say, it's not just this traditional ink.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yeah. I think there's always a thread, a DNA thread of the Sim Silditch style running through the projects. You know, we would probably. There are certain boundaries we wouldn't do. So we wouldn't specify an ultra modern kitchen if that's what a client wanted to put a bowl top kitchen in a historic house. Of course we wouldn't say no.

[Dennis Scully]

Once you stop crying and pulling your hair out and thinking, what else can I do to talk this person out.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Of this, but I'd much rather put a more classical kitchen in, personally. That was timeless and that could be repainted, but no, you know, it's always down to the client's individual needs. But at the same time, they would come to us knowing what they would get and they would go to Kelly Hoppen knowing what they would get with Kelly. And that's what the wow House shows doesn't showcases what a designer's real sort of DNA is because. Because they're doing this without a client involved. So it's quite fun.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, it's interesting coming back to the wow House and coming back to show houses and how there aren't a lot of show houses here. So in America, the hope with the show house is that you're not having to work with a client. You can create something that you want or that was some expression of yourself that you hope people are going to see, help put you on the map. You. You don't need to be put on the map at this point, but it's wonderful to get that exposure. You hope that some wonderful international client is going to walk through and say, oh, my gosh, I've got to have this. Right. I mean, is it that same sort of thinking with all of this?

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Always? Yeah, always. You know, we're still definitely not. We're not a sort of global name that I don't believe we are, but maybe other people would disagree. But I feel like there's always room for, you know, more opportunity to help people get to know who we are. And I think this kind of opportunity at the Design Centre is extraordinary because on the first day we were there, I talked to a lady from Australia, a family from Ohio, from Texas, from South Africa. It's so international.

[Dennis Scully]

Oh, fantastic.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

It's incredible. So I was really bowled over by that. I had no idea it would be quite such an international show.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah. And that's just what you think with London, that it's bringing people from all over the world. Right. And so that makes a lot of sense in a way. Before we go. So, funny enough, I bumped into David Lipton from World of Interiors.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Oh, yes.

[Dennis Scully]

So the lovely David Lipton. He had. Just before I came over, he had written an article about why isn't there more criticism in the interior design world? Right. So there's food critics and there's art critics and there's architecture critics and what's the problem? And interestingly, we've been having that discussion in the States. My partner Fred and I sort of, why isn't there More of that. There are humorous people who do criticisms of celebrity homes and lots of good sport around all of that. But we don't have people holding up. Here's great work and here's what makes it great.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yes.

[Dennis Scully]

Right.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

That's a really good question.

[Dennis Scully]

Do you know what I mean?

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

I do. And I don't know whether it's just because we're all so such sort of. Not we, but I mean, there's a lot of prima donnas in the industry that would get very upset. There'd be a lot of tears.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, that's the perception. That's the perception that there's a lot of people who are just. And I get it.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yeah. Sensitive. Yeah. Don't like to be criticized.

[Dennis Scully]

Or we think, oh, this is somebody's home, you shouldn't be criticizing, blah, blah, blah. But it's not that we're criticizing or the home.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yes, Right.

[Dennis Scully]

But, yes, but we do want to be able to say, oh, yes, you're right, this is great work. This is why we want to encourage people to look at so and so's work and learn from it. You know, you. You talk to so many designers of a certain generation. Yeah. And they will tell you, oh, my gosh, of course we studied Billy Baldwin or of course we studied who. Whoever it is for them.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

I think one of the things I love doing is nurturing talent and actually seeing the talent in really young people. And in our studio, we've got lots of that and actually feeling like I can make a difference to those young people to how to give them the opportunity to really flourish and to learn. And I do think, you know, there's a critique part in that, isn't there?

[Dennis Scully]

Sure.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Actually saying sometimes saying, no, you're not right, or no, you've got that wrong, or actually, you need to aim higher or you haven't quite understood the brief. And I think, you know, we shouldn't be afraid of criticism, although we are and we don't like it. Naturally, it's all about personalities in the industry, isn't it? And when you're looking for someone to design your home, the first. For me, the most important thing is to get on with your designer. And you could perhaps, going back to your critique thing, you could say there are some personalities that aren't very approachable and others that are really approachable. And so maybe that could be something you could investigate is personalities and who's right for what type of client. That would be quite an interesting article to write.

[Dennis Scully]

Well, I mean, I think there's a Lot to be discussed and considered and I'm hoping that this conversation is going to be ongoing because I do think yes, you make a great point. That and I've spoken to so many designers who worked for very prestigious firms and of course the principals came through and criticized your work or the choices that you were making about this color that trim, this fabric. Right. Are you sure that's what you want to use in that room? Maybe you want to go back and reconsider? Are there other choices? Do you want to come back, show me something? I mean, I think that's part of the learning and evolutionary process. But I think that as you say, there's an understandable sensitivity to it and I get it. I'm curious, in conclusion, growing this big team that you have, what have you learned about what ends up making a great designer or what makes a great team member? Like what is it that people bring.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

It's a really good question. I think one of the things we often overlook. So you look for someone with great talent as a designer, but are they able to present their ideas to a client? Can they stand up, up in front of a family office? Can they? You know, if you're talking about ultra high net worth people, they often. You're not often not even talking to the client. You're often talking to a client representative. So it's how can that person confidently stand up and speak in a way that is convincing, that is compelling, that is, you know, really getting their point across. It's a kind of sales role in a way.

[Dennis Scully]

Can you sell yourself and your ideas?

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

So we've actually recently done some training on this particular subject.

[Dennis Scully]

Have you?

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yeah, we're always investing in our team and one of the things we've done is we've had a lovely couple of people come and we've done a month long of sort of two hour sessions on. It's almost like therapy sessions. It's brilliant, I'm sure. How to get into the psyche of your client and how to understand from their perspective what they might be thinking and how to convey yourself well. How to speak eloquently, how to convince them in a very unsales sales way how you're going to improve their life by designing their home. So it's wonderful to invest in the team in that way. I'm really enjoying it. I think cpd, we call it continued professional development is really overlooked and I think it needs to be done all the time in any business, actually.

[Dennis Scully]

I agree and I'm so glad that you focused in on that. That because so often when I have people come and talk in front of the students at the New York School of Interior Design, so many of them say you've got to be able to sell yourself, your ideas and not be afraid because as you say, it's part of it.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Yes, part of any business when you're interacting with a client is like giving them confidence, giving them quiet confidence and reassurance that they're safe in your hands.

[Dennis Scully]

Yeah, no, that's wonderful. I'm so glad that you invest that time and that energy in your staff and continuing professional development. Emma, thank you so much for your time and for talking with me.

[Emma Sims Hilditch]

Dennis, it's been a great pleasure. Thank you.

[Dennis Scully]

Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, visit. Visit us [e-mail] where you can sign up for our newsletter, browse job listings and join our BoH Insider community for access to online workshops, a free print subscription, and much more. If you have a note for the podcast, drop us a [e-mail] if you're enjoying these conversations, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps others to discover the show. This show was produced by Fred Nicholson Laos and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next week.