C (2:24)

I think that's a good distinction, Albin. I think that if you have a guest on your show and they give you their time and they bring whatever it was that you agree that they're going to come on your show and bring and they deliver that, but you're not happy with. I don't know how it turned out, but they are. I think you kind of owe it to them to publish as much as possible. I mean, obviously there are limits. I don't know the extreme cases of which I would say, no, you're right, don't publish it. But if you're just a little bit self critical of how you performed or some of the things you said or stories you shared, editing is your friend. Yeah, but I think I would do my best to try to get that out there and honor the time that they gave you. You're 100% right, though. If somebody comes on your show, the story that you just shared from Smartless, like they stopped it 10 minutes in. I have to imagine that guest was being pretty belligerent or something. Like showed up drunk or something. Yeah. Who knows, there might have been some history there. Maybe they had some whatever jokes that just weren't landing or going sideways and somebody called somebody on something and they're like, no, you know who. Comedians do that all the time. They, you know, stuff goes sideways on comedy shows all the time. That doesn't happen too much in, I don't know, regular world, real world. Like, and, and you should be able to navigate most of that stuff if you don't have big egos. And, and I would think people who come on Smart List probably have some pretty big ego. So maybe it's harder.

B (3:47)

Yeah, they're optimizing for ego there. Yeah, it's funny. I made a little video for YouTube yesterday and I used Smart List as one of the examples. All the advice I see for marketing podcasts is always online. And we did that episode a year ago about kind of doing like offline marketing techniques. And Smart List is doing all of these live shows where they're doing like surprise guests. The show itself is the marketing.

A (4:12)

Yeah.

B (4:12)

It's in the real world and it gets people really excited. It's exclusive, you've got to get tickets and you have no idea who it's going to be. Imagine if that was the live episode. I'm sure they're doing a bit more. They're like, okay, we're bringing back Will Ferrell.

A (4:26)

Yeah.

B (4:27)

And he's ready to go. Right. But 10 minutes in, that's got to be one of the worst. It's got to be a rough 10 minutes for you to call it.

C (4:36)

Yeah. It makes me want to guess who this person is.

A (4:38)

We know it's comedian, and we know it's someone that's probably pretty abrasive.

B (4:42)

My guess would be it's not going to be a top comedian. It's probably somebody who came in.

A (4:46)

Will said you would be shocked. Like, this is a very, very famous person.

C (4:52)

I mean, I think some of those awkward exchanges that happen on. On late night TV and stuff, even on the Ellen show. Who is the. Who is the girl?

A (5:00)

Oh, yes.

C (5:01)

And she called out Ellen because Ellen said she didn't invite her to her birthday party. And I'm like, I did invite you to my birthday party. You didn't come.

A (5:07)

It was, like, really awkward.

C (5:09)

Yeah, she called Ellen out on a couple things.

A (5:11)

I can't remember her name. I can see her face. Dakota Johnson.

C (5:14)

Anyway, where do we go from here? Have you ever been on a podcast that didn't get published?

A (5:19)

I have.

C (5:20)

Oh, have you?

B (5:21)

I have. I think it's a little bit more of the second type. I haven't gone into a podcast so abrasive that I expected it to get removed, but I think I've been on a lot of people's first episode or first view.

A (5:34)

Yep.

B (5:34)

And so then they end up going, okay, I. I don't know how I feel about this.

C (5:39)

Did they write you and tell you, or did it just never go live?

B (5:42)

Never went live, actually. There. Okay. There was one.

A (5:45)

Oh, no, this.

B (5:47)

I forgot about this. Kevin, you were. I think you were there for this one. 2018, we're a podcast movement in, like, Chicago something. And we have the Buzzsprout studio that you and I built. And we flew it in and we're there, and a woman came in and she introduced me, and she was like, I'm doing a podcast about interviewing lawyers. And I went, okay. And someone goes, album used to be a lawyer. And I'd just gotten out of it, so I was like, I don't really want to do an episode like this. And she kept coming back and asking, so eventually went, all right, I'll do the episode with you. And we go into the studio. I'm not working the booth. And we record for like 45 minutes. And the only thing that I said before it was, hey, this case that we'd been talking about, I was like, it's still ongoing, so I really don't want to Talk about it. And she knew how much money was at risk. She knew, and it was a really big case, but it was relatively high profile. And she jumps right into questions about that case, and she goes, wow, that sounds like a really big case. How many millions? Like over a hundred million. Over 150 million. Which she knew. Yes. The answer was yes. Yeah, she keeps throwing him out there. I'm like, yeah, I can't answer that.

A (6:55)

Yeah.

B (6:56)

At the end of the interview, she goes, okay, well, you know, I don't think I'm gonna use that one, because you didn't really wanna go into everything, but it's good practice for me.

D (7:03)

Well, there you go.

B (7:06)

But it was the only thing I

A (7:08)

told her beforehand, and she just went for it. Yeah, I think the one that I was on, it was again, a newer podcaster, and I think I went into it thinking that the interview was going to be about one thing. And then she started getting into, like, personal things. And I felt like. I remember realizing, about 20 minutes into the interview, I was like, I don't feel like this is going anywhere. And I think we both just mutually realized we were not a good fit for each other during the interview. And I was not shocked when that episode never went live.

C (7:39)

Hmm.

A (7:39)

What about you, Kevin? Have you ever been on anything that just.

C (7:42)

I don't think on either side, I don't think I've ever recorded an episode.

A (7:45)

Just batting a thousand.

C (7:47)

Yeah, I don't know why. I mean, first of all, I don't guess on a lot of podcasts, so that kind of pulls me out of that pool. If I do guest, it's a pretty. Like it's something that I really want to do. So I. Yeah, I would definitely want it to go live. It would be a big deal for me if it didn't. And on the recording side, I think. I don't know. I have Jordan. She has. Makes me sound smart.

B (8:06)

So.

C (8:06)

No, no problem. I can just ramble for hours and she'll clean it up and give me a tight 10 and we hit publish.

A (8:12)

Yeah, I think it's, like, really important to be discerning on that. I think it's totally fine to not publish something. And, you know, if a guest takes it personally, then, you know, they'll take it personally and you cross that bridge when you get to it. But I gotta say, I think a lot of podcasters are very understanding when an episode doesn't get go live, or a guest will be really understanding when an episode doesn't go live. I see a lot of People posting about, should I post this? Should I not post the episode? Should I not publish it? But I haven't seen anyone say, I didn't publish it. And this person's coming after me about it now. I haven't seen that. Right.

B (8:50)

I've got one story of that. Oh, no, there's this episode of Making Sense with Sam Harris, and this is from years ago. We interviewed it with somebody who was like, all right, that was three hours of, like, arguing, and we didn't convince each other of anything. And according to him, like, the guest was kind of belligerent, and he goes, all right, well, I'm not going to publish that. And so the guest went online, and they just start posting all over the place. Like, I totally destroyed him in this argument. Proved all my points exactly right. And put into this random stuff, he's like, all right, well, if you keep saying this online, I'm going to just post the episode. It's terrible. We both look bad. And the guy's like, yeah, I want to see it. He posted it. Everyone's like, yep, makes you look bad. So I don't know if there's a bit of amnesia there or what. It's out there. And I've made it maybe two minutes in before I went, this is not worth my time.

A (9:41)

Yeah. I did have one instance, like, in my own podcast, where I had someone guest on it to write a story and compose music for it. And they had given me samples of their work before, which was really good. And then what they provided to me, like, the actual finished thing that they spent time on, and I felt really bad, was not a good fit for my podcast. But because they spent so much time in it, and I knew that there was all this effort and artistry put into it, I went ahead and published it anyway. And that was the episode that I got by far the most negative feedback on. And I wish so badly I could have just gone back and, like, listened to my gut and said, hey, I actually think this is really good, but you should give it to someone else to use. Like, I am going to allow you to do that. So I think it's really good to be protective of your podcast. Listen to that voice inside your head that is saying, I don't think this is a good fit because you could kind of hurt your listenership by posting it anyway.

C (10:47)

Yeah. And I think that at least I would hope I would respond kindly that if I. If I did go guest on somebody's show, and for one reason or another, it just didn't feel right for them to publish it onto their podcast. A nice note. I mean, even if you want to go above and beyond and send them a $10 Starbucks gift card or something and just say, thank you so much for your time, I know this doesn't make us square, but there's just something that felt off and I don't feel comfortable publishing. Maybe they offered to do it again sometime. Maybe we just part ways, but I hope I would just get that. It's their show and they have to protect it. And even if I think I did great and it was so valuable of the time I gave you and how could you do this to me? I think that would go away pretty quickly with a nice note and hearing someone's heart and just saying, I'm just trying to do what I think is right for my show. So nothing personal, but I think there's ways through this stuff if we just, you know, swallow our pride and be really kind.

A (11:37)

Yeah, I think that those are really good tips. All right, so for our next episode, we are going to be talking about hosting a meetup. And this can be a meetup with listeners or other podcasters. And for this episode, we will have a special guest on. So I'm really excited about that. If you have any experience or tips or questions about hosting a meetup, go ahead and tap the Texas show link in the show notes to send those in. And until next time, thanks for listening and keep podcasting.

C (12:12)

Jordan, did you send this song to Alvin as well?

A (12:14)

Yes, I did.

C (12:16)

Have you heard this song, Alvin?

B (12:18)

Yes. This is now our second or third theme song ever made for Buzzcast, and it is by far the best.

C (12:24)

By far the best. Yeah. Because I got it from Jordan. I immediately sent it to my family group chat, and then my wife walked into my office like 10 minutes later and she was humming. Is catchy.

A (12:40)

It is so catchy. It's an absolute banger. Yeah. Kevin Lowe from Grit, Grace and Inspiration. It's so funny because you, Kevin, had a request to the other Kevin for him to make us a song because he had talked about how he puts songs. Like, he create songs for his guests on his podcast. And so you challenged him to do that. And he almost immediately, like, the episode dropped Friday. And like, Friday, I got a song from him.

C (13:07)

Crank it out.

D (13:09)

Oh, man.

A (13:09)

And it's so good.

C (13:11)

Yeah, I feel like it's a little bit too long to play at the end of every episode, but I love it. I thought it was really catchy and fun. Made me smile. So can we at least Play it one time for everyone oh, yeah Wondering

D (13:23)

which mic sounds right how you make this whole thing grow A hundred episodes behind you now still don't know what you don't know Tech keeps breaking, numbers slide Some days you're done some days you fly Try not to listen to all that noise Saying it's dead or about to rise Then a conversation finds you when you're ready to shut it down not louder than the headlines just clearer than the sound Every Friday Friday is buzzcast when the week's been loud and long Three voices, one conversation that keeps the whole thing moving on Every Friday it's buzzcast Same three voices, same vibe More than mics and downloads it's a place where ideas come alive Jordan's keeping time, keeping things on track Laugh so loud you can't help a laugh back Kevin leans and waits his turn Drops one line and you've just learned Alvin dives deep Won't skim from law library straight to socks on the street what starts to talk about how to record Ends up changing how you think a little more and somehow you're learning more when the topic's not the point it's the side roads, the detours that keep you coming back again Every Friday is buzzcast when you need something real not polished, not perfect Just conversations you can feel Every Friday it's buzzcast in play you' funny how a show about podcasting isn't While you listen in somewhere between the guitar and a deep dive on socks you realize it's not the format it's the people that make it rock it's the people that make it rock. Every Friday it's buzzcast no matter how the week went down Three voices, one conversation that keeps your feet on the ground Every Friday it's buzzcast when you need a familiar sound it's more than podcasting yeah, this is buzz. Jesus.