A (1:43)

Are you a big texter?

B (1:45)

Oh, yeah. I'm always like, if you need to get a hold of me, like, you're. You're gonna have to text me. You want an email back? You're gonna have to wait like two weeks. You might as well send me a postcard in the mail.

A (1:55)

I'm so bad on my email. Are you one of those people, though, that has like a thousand plus emails or are you like, deleting?

B (2:02)

I think it was. You know that. Okay, so you know that this is not interesting, but you know that period between Christmas and New Year's where you're like, what? Do what? Where are we and, like, time has no meaning. I was like, I'm gonna clean out my email inbox. Because I did have one of those. Because it was like, well, what else are we doing right? And I. I am one of those people, and I hate that about me, that I'm one of those people that has, like, 2,000.

A (2:23)

I have the same thing. And if anyone calls humiliating, I immediately don't answer.

B (2:28)

Well, I'm like, did someone die? This is bad. Is terrible.

A (2:31)

I don't like confrontation.

B (2:32)

No, I don't. I don't like communication. People I don't know. No, that's not true. Mostly. But, yeah, no, yeah, you have to text me.

A (2:40)

Okay. Obviously, like, being an actress now. Like, obviously director. But, like, what is your, like, day off? Like, what are you up to when you're not working?

B (2:48)

I'm trying to get mint to grow in my garden. I'm trying to. I'm trying to really, like, be a homemaker. Not a homemaker. That's not what I mean. I mean, I'm trying to, like, do something physical and tangible that I can go like, wow, I. And I grew this mint, and now I'm putting it in a cocktail because that's as close as I'm ever gonna get to cooking. And I don't know, there's something about, like, devoting your entire life to this very weird thing of, like, pretending to be another person and, you know, like, crying on cue in front of a room full of people you met three days ago and whatever, that you're like, I don't make anything physical. You know what I mean? Like, so I. I feel like I'm always trying to find, like, I should really take up knitting or something. Like, I just want to, like, make something that I can hold and go, like, I made this.

A (3:39)

Okay. To give you a little bit more credit. You are making something that, I mean, like.

B (3:46)

I mean, it's not, like, it's not real, but there is just something, like, fleeting about it or. I don't know.

A (3:51)

Are you having an existential crisis right now?

B (3:54)

Constantly.

A (3:55)

This whole episode is us just trying to figure out, like, what is the meaning of being an actor in life? No, but I get what you're saying. You're like, I want something tangible, AKA mint. It's a little odd that mint is the one thing in your garden.

B (4:06)

Those. In a lot of cocktails.

A (4:08)

What can. Are you making good cocktails?

B (4:10)

I'm trying. Yeah. I went. Yeah. When I moved, I was like, I want to be able to, like, have people over and be able to and be able to offer them a refreshment. But, like, I'm never going to cook. That's never going to happen.

A (4:22)

Okay, pretend I come over. What are you making me for a drink?

B (4:25)

Well, do you have, like, a specific.

A (4:27)

I like tequila and vodka, so I'm kind of like, I can go either way. I like a Moscow Mule. I like a Margarita.

B (4:33)

Moscow Mules are super, super easy, so we love that. But there's like, a watermelon vodka cocktail that I like. I also feel like people tend to come over and say that they drink anything but gin. But gin makes great cocktail. Like, drinking gin straight is for crazy people. I don't know what that's about, but. But it makes really great, like, cocktails, especially if you want to serve something up. And also if you, like, want to commit to doing an egg white foam, it gets. It's really easy. And people are like, absolutely blown away that you've created.

A (5:06)

I'm blown away already. We. An egg white foam.

B (5:10)

Yeah. The key is doing a dry shake in your shaker with the egg white before you add ice. And then it will really. And then you add all the other ingredients and then add ice, and then it will actually, like, stay foamy. And, you know, just put a little, like, sprig of lavender or something on top. And, like, people are like, oh, my God, how did you do this?

A (5:29)

Me? I'm the dumb bitch. That's like, whoa.

B (5:31)

Well, then that's what I would make for you so that. So that you find me impressive. Yeah, That's.

A (5:37)

Okay. That's good to know. What is one thing you can't leave the house without.

B (5:41)

Oh, God, probably chapstick. Like, I'm one of those people that I have, like, a. I have, like, a drawer full of chapsticks and.

A (5:49)

Yeah, same.

B (5:50)

Yeah. And I like all the different flavors and the.

A (5:52)

Oh, yeah. What's your go to?

B (5:54)

I really like the Burt's bees. There's, like, a pomegranate one.

A (5:57)

Are you fucking with me? No. You. You're fucking with me?

B (6:01)

No. What? People are laughing. What's happening?

A (6:03)

You fucking talk to someone?

B (6:05)

Are you doing a life on my dad? Sold. No. Absolutely. Wait, what is happening? Anna, you are not about to do that to me right now.

A (6:13)

You don't understand.

B (6:15)

That's sick.

A (6:15)

No, you don't get it.

B (6:17)

I might have it in my fanny pack. I'm not joking.

A (6:20)

You brought a fanny pack?

B (6:22)

You know what?

A (6:23)

We're.

B (6:24)

I'm doing a lot right now. Don't make fun of my fanny pack.

A (6:27)

Hold On.

B (6:28)

First of all, that's it. Now I feel like you're fucking with me.

A (6:31)

No, that's crazy. Okay.

B (6:34)

I have a. I feel like you just. I feel like you're like the Mentalist. Like, you're Criss Angel. And you're like. You mean this pomegranate?

A (6:40)

Whichever one you said. You're like road lipstick. I'm like, boom.

B (6:43)

Because I also like the sweet violet. But I was like, well, that's not really. I guess that's a tinted lip balm. I don't know. That's something else. So I was like, pomegranate.

A (6:50)

I like the pomegranate, too, because it gives you that a little bit of a tint.

B (6:53)

The tiniest tint. Yeah, I. What's happening?

A (6:56)

Wait, Anna, I'm not kidding you. I thought you were doing a bit. No. Or you were, like, fucking with me.

B (7:01)

Wait, have you, like, talked? Am I an idiot? Have you.

A (7:03)

No, no. Everyone that, like, really, really knows me, like, you know the Arthur meme where he's, like, got the fifth.

B (7:09)

Yeah.

A (7:09)

I always have this in and anywhere you look. Like any interview I'm doing, I have it somewhere in my body. And I have an entire bowl in my house and every single sweat.

B (7:18)

You have a bowl?

A (7:18)

I have a bowl in my house of all the pomegranate next to my bathroom sink. And I just pick one up every day and I open a new one and I use it until I lose it and then I go back. I love it.

B (7:27)

This is weird. I don't like it. Creepy.

A (7:30)

It's really creepy. But I think the reason I love chapstick so much is because I have this feeling. It's like the ick of myself is if I don't have my lips somewhat moisturized, I feel like that is goes and is, like, almost contingent with having bad breath. Like, I feel like when you see someone with chapped lips, you're like, they must have bad breath.

B (7:48)

Oh, yeah. I don't know. No, I think that. Yeah, I haven't thought about it, but, like, subconsciously. Yeah. I'm just going to lean away.

A (7:55)

Okay. So you're a chapstick girl.

B (7:57)

Yeah.

A (7:57)

Good to know. So you probably have good breath. Haven't gotten close enough to you today, but we'll see later. What is the most high maintenance thing about you?

B (8:06)

Probably my hair. Because I have. I'm like a secret curly.

A (8:11)

What?

B (8:12)

I'm like a secret like. Like, Like Keri Russell and Felicity level curly.

A (8:17)

You have gorgeous hair.

B (8:19)

Well, you know, not really what my hair looks like. Yeah. And I. I've been like. I haven't. Like, I wore. I started. I was on, like, a natural, like, you know, curly hair journey. Like, I let my therapist see me with my, like, real hair. Oh, that's good. Big steps. And like, like, two of my best friends in my house have, like, come over and I'm like, I should let you know that I have let my hair dry naturally, and I'm in a very vulnerable place. Cause I just. It was one of those things that I always felt, like, messy because I think, like, when I really started to be like, oh, I need to, like, start learning how to, like, blow out my hair and whatever was when, like, pin straight hair was. Was when, like, tiny butts and super straight hair was the. The height of female attractiveness. So I just felt like. Yeah. I don't know, almost like the chapped lips things where I was just constantly, like, doing that, you know, just trying to, like, make my hair be, like, flat. And when it would get, like, frizzy if I would go to a concert or whatever, I would just be, like, freaking out about it, like, humiliated.

A (9:26)

But you're like, I have to leave. I have to leave the concert.

B (9:28)

And I was thinking about, like, like all the fucking energy and time that I think we all spend without even thinking about it. About, like, okay, well, okay, if I wash my hair at this time, and then how long is it gonna take to do my blowout? And if I shave my legs on this day, I'll have stubble for that. Well, but like. And just. It's always just running in the background. It's exact. It's exhausting.

A (9:49)

It's so exhausting. And it's so dumb because we notice so much more about ourselves. Like, I bet if you had your curly hair here, I'd be like, oh, I love your curly hair. Wait, what did your therapist say to you? When did you do, like, a big reveal of, like, I'm going to. I'm going to show you now.

B (10:02)

Yeah.

A (10:03)

On zoom or in person?

B (10:04)

It was on zoom.

A (10:04)

Oh.

B (10:06)

And I think it. I think it was like I. I was still like, this is so boring. But I was still, like, self conscious about it. So I pulled back, like, you know, it's like a half up, half down thing. And so she was sort of like, where are you going? Like that it was, you know, that it was like. It just looked different because I usually just like, wear it in, like, a bun in a headband.

A (10:26)

Right.

B (10:27)

So I think she thought that I was, like, going somewhere. So I was like, well, that's. That's encouraging. She wasn't like, what happened? But, yeah, I'm still like, you're dealing with. I'm still on a journey.

A (10:39)

Well, you know what? We're gonna support you on that journey. Your hair looks amazing today. But I bet it would also look amazing if it was curly. Okay. Anyways, you've been making movies for two decades. What do you think you would be doing if you hadn't pursued acting?

B (10:52)

Oh, God. God help me. I don't know. What. I really don't. I mean, I feel like obviously I didn't get into show business because I hate attention. So there's that piece. Like, when people ask me that question, I feel like I'll usually just say, like, oh, I'd have a bakery or something. But, like, I don't know. I would be so screwed. Like, I actually remember when. When I was 17, 18, whatever. I. Whenever I, like, moved to LA, I was really, really jealous of all my friends that were going to college, number one, because I felt really insecure about not going to college. I have a whole, you know, complex about it. But I was also, you know, on the phone, like, hearing about this exciting new chapter that was sort of laid out for them and, you know, going to collect classes and joining a sorority and, you know, having this, like, immediate community. And I was in LA. I was, like, 17 or 18. It's really hard to make friends in LA because of, like, the way the city is laid out, but especially when you don't have a fake ID. And even if I did, I looked about 12, so that wasn't going to work anyway. And I was just, like, absolutely terrified and really wondering if I was, like, making a huge mistake.

A (12:17)

And.

B (12:17)

And then the weirdest thing was that when everybody entered their sophomore year, I was still, like, just, you know, trying to get in the door and all of that. But I then noticed that when I would get on the phone with friends of mine who were in college, they were suddenly, all of them, sophomore year, having a total crisis because freshman year was like, this is so exciting. And there's this new chapter, and, like, my whole life is ahead of me and I'm making these friends. And in sophomore year, it fel. Okay, I'm back with the same people, and that's great. And I'm picking my classes for this year, and that's great, but what do I want to do with my life? Like, there's no longer just the excitement of, like, oh, my God, frat parties and, you know, the college experience. It's like, oh, I have to figure out what I want. And so even though the thing that I wanted felt like a total pipe dream, and, like, what am I doing? This is a disaster. It's so hard to carve out a space for yourself in this industry, but on the other side of it, holy shit. I did not think, like, what a blessing to just know what I want. And I was like, watching all my friends go, oh, my God, I don't know what to. What I want, what to do.

A (13:38)

It's so interesting, like. Cause I went to college, and I remember from a young age, I, like, knew I wanted to be in Hollywood. Like, I knew I wanted to create. I knew I wanted to do something in this industry. But my mom kept just being like, no, you have to do school. You have to do school, and then you can do it later. And I resented that so much for a while, but hearing, like, the difference, like, again, everyone wants what they don't have. Of, like, being in college, wishing by sophomore year I was like, get me the out of here. I know exactly what I want to do. But you being, like, watching all the kids in college and you being like, that was a big insecurity of mine. Like, why was it an insecurity, though? Because you were like, I don't have an education technically. Of Totally, Totally.

B (14:18)

So I think my family really values, like, traditional education, you know, for good reasons, bad reasons, whatever. And so I was, like, the first person to not go to college. And my dad was a teacher and everything, so it was, like, very black sheep behavior to not go to college.

A (14:37)

Were they okay with you not going to college?

B (14:39)

Yeah, I mean, I think they knew I was going to do what I wanted to do, but I think there was always that sense of, like, well, if things maybe don't work out that first year, it's not too late to just, you know. So I think that was always, like, something that they had in mind, but I don't think they were thrilled, which is understandable. Yeah, but. But yeah, I then, like, just worried about, like, oh, my God, I didn't. I didn't go to college. You know, I don't know. It's like.

A (15:09)

I get it. I think it's, like, in a great way. I do think, like, the concept of education now is becoming a little bit more lenient, where people are like, you don't need to go to college to be XYZ completely. And it's interesting because you were right on the right path, but because of, like, societal standards of, like, if you're smart, you go to college. It's probably felt so disorienting when you're watching all these people do, like, the natural next step. Really. You just skipped a big step, and then you got ahead on your career. But it doesn't mean you can't still feel insecure about it. Of, like, in conversation, having to be like, oh, I didn't go to college. Like, I get that. Especially if your family was like, go school, go school. And your dad being a teacher.

B (15:47)

Totally. And I think now that I'm, like, older, it's less of a thing. But, like, early 20s, you know, that's like, part of the conversation is like, oh, where'd you go to college?

A (15:56)

Yes.

B (15:57)

I didn't like how. Oh, my God. I have to say I didn't. And by that, at that point, like, you know, like, 21, 22, I didn't really have much to show for it yet. You know, like, then some things happened, and, you know, it was less of an issue. But, yeah, it's like, oh, I didn't go to college because I wanted to become an actor. And it's like, how's that going? Well, you know, I think I got to someone's. I'm hearing my phone ring, so. Yeah, right.

A (16:20)

They're like, what are you? And you're like, be back soon. Got to go. I get that. Talking about your family, though, you were raised in Maine, right? Born and raised in Maine. What were you like as a kid?

B (16:31)

I think I was really, like, hyper vigilant. Like, I was really in everybody's business a little bit. But I think that I was even thinking, like, a couple of weeks ago about how I do. One of my many toxic traits is I do kind of walk around with, like, a little bit of a. All right, who's trying to fuck me over? You know? And I. I was like, I don't know. There's a chance that it's like, oh, oh, you're spelling bedtime. You think? I don't. You think I don't know what's happening here? You know, like, just. I don't know, just being real aggressive about, like, how I wanted things done and, like, very opinionated. But I don't. I can't really tell if that comes from childhood or from, like, working in an industry where I'm sure you've experienced. It's like, you agree to certain things, and then it's like, oh, and can we also do this thing that would be really humiliating for you and not, like, pay you any extra Money or check with you in advance and ask you in front of a group of people. So if you say no, you'll look like a. You know. So I'm just always like, all right, who in this room is trying to me over.

A (17:42)

That's so interesting that you're like, did that happen when I was young or is it just like something I can't not remember? Because you started in the industry at what, like 10? You started really getting into it.

B (17:52)

Yeah, I started kind of auditioning for things when I was 10 and I booked my first gig when I was 12, so. But I mean, I wasn't auditioning all the time because I lived in Maine. And so either one of my parents had to drive me to New York City for like a 15 minute audition. And they were like, well, sweetie, we love you, but Jesus. So eventually my brother and I would take a Greyhound bus from Maine to New York. And that's one of the situations where we were in that. I auditioned for this show that I ended up getting and we were in New York and they asked me, are you cool to stay for a callback tomorrow? And I was always just told, we'll just say yes, you'll figure it out later. So I was like, absolutely, I will see you tomorrow. No problem. And my brother and I, like, then are just like, okay, we need to find a hotel in New York City.

A (18:53)

Anna, what are you, 11?

B (18:54)

I'm 12, he's 13 or 14. So we found a hotel and my parents called the hotel and faxed a credit card and told them like, yes, yes, we'll be along shortly. And they're in Maine. And so I like, wash my underwear in the sink and then just like, put on this. I mean, luckily there is like a thing where if you get a call back, you're. It's kind of conventional wisdom that you should wear the same thing. So that didn't seem like I was the gross kid with one pair of clothes, same underwear. But so then the next day the same thing happened. And again, it was like, no problem, I will see you again in the morning. And had to do it again. And then they. Oh, that's right, they did ask me because I was wearing combat boots. And they were like, can you. Cause the part was for like a little rich girl. So they were like, could you, like, wear something like, you know, we just love to see you in more of a kind of Sunday best outfit? And specifically someone mentioned my. So I was wearing this, like, ratty cardigan and like ripped jeans and these, like, combat Boots. But I was like, ah, the solution will be to go to the nearest Payless and find like white church strappy sandals. And so like with like the last $20 that we had, I like bought this pair of sandals, like dress sandals, and wore those with my ratty cardigan and jeans and. And then like wandered in and I think they were just like, oh, for fuck's sake. Yeah, fine. What? And then we were on a Greyhound bus home and we had this phone for emergencies and that rang and it was like, hey, you're going to be on Broadway.

A (20:41)

I'm like trying to picture 12 year old me walking around in New York City with my brother who's two years older than me. I'm like, how the hell were you not even scared.

B (20:52)

I think that we just thought it was like such an adventure. And I think we also like wanted to be like cool New York City kids so fucking bad, right? That we were just like, yeah, this is so normal. I can't remember if we were like low key, freaking out or not, but we. I know that. I mean, even when I went there at 17, I did this show at New York City Opera and I remember like riding the subway to work and seeing like, oh my God, you know, you see those gorgeous girls who are like going to American ballet.

A (21:24)

Yes.

B (21:25)

And being like. And like looking at them and being like, we're really doing it. Oh my God, I'm in New York and I'm going to work and I'm going to work on the subway and it's like not a big deal at all. Which if you're thinking about it like that, it's a huge fucking deal to you. I was not. I had no chill. But that was, but that's sweet.

A (21:42)

Okay. All of this is happening. I know that you were nominated for a Tony Award when you were just 12, so it came from that.

B (21:48)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (21:49)

Okay. What did kids in school think?

B (21:52)

It's weird again. Like, I don't know if you've experienced, experienced something like this, but there were several moments where it felt like if I mentioned anything to the kids at school, they, don't get me wrong, understandably, sort of thought I was like talking about something else. Like, like, like in the same way that if someone in my school, in like middle school or high school had been like, oh, yeah, I'm going to Olympic trials, I would be like, so is there some kind of like local like, oh, it's the Olympics, you know what I mean? Like, I would just be like, no, you're not right Like. Cause that just doesn't make sense because we're from Maine. Like, what are you talking about? I remember having, like, a really little indie film in the Sundance Film Festival when I was 16, 17, and going to Sundance. And I remember one of my close friends, one of my, like, best friends called me and was like, that's so weird. There's something on. On the news about. I think it was. I could be getting this mixed up, but I think it was, like, the year that Britney Spears and, like, Fred Durst went to Sundance together. There's something. I'm. Maybe I'm. Maybe I'm hallucinating. It was some other story. I don't know. But she called me and she was like, yeah, they're at, like, the Sundance Film Festival. And isn't that so weird? Because you were just saying that you're doing something called Sundance, but it's, like, happening at the same time. And I was like, I'm at Sundance. I'm at the Sundance. I'm at the Sundance film. That's why I was so fucking excited about it.

A (23:26)

Right. You're like, I'm here with Britney Spears. Yes. And.

B (23:28)

And, like, she was, like, a close friend. So I think, like, there's an understandable thing that happens where you're just like, yes. Not you. They just didn't get here.

A (23:37)

They didn't get it. So you. And you didn't talk about it over the top where, like, people would even have a concept of it?

B (23:42)

No, no. I mean, even. I think there was a. Hope. A luckily very brief window where it was kind of like a teasing situation. So it was like, I knew better than to be, like, running my mouth about it too much because people would.

A (23:57)

Make fun of you.

B (23:58)

Yeah.

A (23:58)

Isn't that so weird? Meanwhile, it's like everyone wants to be a movie star.

B (24:01)

I don't know. I think just drawing any attention to yourself in middle, like, particularly. This was, like, in middle school, like, right after I did the Broadway show. It's like you just want to disappear pure. Like, I think people talk about high school as being cutthroat. Middle school was so much scarier to me.

A (24:18)

It was so horrible. I completely agree. High school is actually, like. I started to get my shit together. Middle school, I was terrified. Yeah.

B (24:26)

I remember feeling, like, just, like, trying to be, like, a moving pile of laundry, you know, just wearing, like, the biggest clothes and just trying so fudgeing hard not to draw any attention to yourself.

A (24:35)

Yes. So you obviously start to become so successful. Like, was your family like, oh, this.

B (24:42)

Is Normal, you know, I found some success. And then I think this is pretty typical for, for entertainment stuff that like, the money really follows. Like several years later. There's that period where you're like, okay, I'm like, low key, a little famous, but I am so fucking broke. It would make you tear up how broke I am. So you're kind of trying to fake it till you make it. But, like, I had brought my family to the Oscars and, you know, there was a really interesting moment a few years later when I, like, bought my first place and I had them at my place and it was like you could feel the energy, particularly for my mom and dad, of like, oh, okay, okay, okay. And it wasn't a mansion, but it was just like, oh, you're gonna be okay. Because they were obviously like, very proud and. But there's things with like, awards and reviews where that's great, but it's still really abstract.

A (25:50)

Yeah.

B (25:51)

And to just see something solid where it was like, okay, our crazy, you know, daughter who didn't go to college, like, has managed to buy a home. You know, it was like I could feel not so much like pride, but that they were actually like, oh, you made it. Relieved.

A (26:09)

Okay, yeah, it all worked out. Like, we don't have to worry about now her, like, going back to college and trying to figure out something else completely.

B (26:16)

She's not gonna move in with us and, like, drain us dry.

A (26:19)

Love, you've been in so many great movies. I want to talk to you about a few of them today. We got to start with Pitch Perfect. Obviously. Bet. MGM has exciting ways for you to bet on pro football. And new customers can sign up for BETMGM using bonus code CHD to unlock their welcome offer and score up to 1500 dollars back in bonus bets if they don't win their first bet. Daddy gang get involved. This football season, BETMGM and Game Sense.

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A (27:28)

Listen, I know it's freezing out there. I know the sun is setting atrociously early. I get it, okay? But hear me out. Just because you have to throw on a couple extra layers does not mean you can't live your best lives and crack a few claws with your friends. Do you hear me, tiny gang? Okay, that means snuggling up in a booth at your favorite dive bar, warming up in the crowd of an epic concert, or having your friends over to watch sports. Listen, seriously, the best winter nights are really just about doing something together. And guess what I'm going to be holding when I'm doing that? A claw. Thank you. White claw. I have stocked my entire drink fridge, my bevy fridge, with white claws. Because I know it is a surefire way to have everyone getting whatever they want because you got all the flavors and then some. So, daddy gang, you know the drill. Pick up a pack from your favorite favorite local spot and grab life by the club with your favorite flavor this winter. Please drink responsibly. Hard seltzer with flavors. White gloss Seltzer works. Chicago, Illinois. We gotta start with Pitch Perfect, obviously. What was that audition process like?

B (28:42)

Well, you know, I think that the most interesting piece or the piece that has certainly followed me around is when I auditioned, they. They needed you to just, like, prove that you could sing. And I was like, well, I know how to do this thing. There's a cup and there's this song, and I could do that. So it was just because I was like, well, where else am I going to do it? Because I was, like, lame enough and dorky enough to have bothered, like, learning this thing. And so I did it for my audition, and they were like, we should put that in the movie. And originally in the script, like, Becca, my character's audition song was I'm a little Teacup, which I. I keep meaning to ask the writer, Kay Cannon, like, was that meant to be, like, funny how. Like, how would that have worked? How. How was I supposed to play that? I don't. I don't know what I was supposed to do.

A (29:35)

Would you have gone?

B (29:36)

Was I supposed to, like, do, like, a Christina Aguilera version of I'm a little Sleep? Or was it supposed to be like. Like, like, oh, I like, resent that I have to do this, and, you know, but I sound fine.

A (29:47)

So how do you think you would have done it?

B (29:49)

I guess, like, that. I mean, I would have been relying on somebody to tell me, like, what the Vibe was supposed to be right, but luckily I didn't have to figure that out. So they. They were like, well, let's do that for. For Becca's audition. And I was like, great. Making use of a useless skill. And then. Then people, when they saw the movie, like, would ask about it and stuff. And so then the studio was like, we should release this as a single. And I was like, what are you fucking stupid? This is a single. That's so embarrassing. I'm so embarrassed for us. So they had me, like, go into the studio for, like, 20 minutes, a hit that was made in 20 minutes, and just, like, sing the rest of the song. And I was, like, in there with a stool and a cup, doing the cup in this weird studio. And then they were like, what if we did a music video? And again, I was like, are we. What's going on? This is so. You guys. I'm so embarrassed for you. Like, I just was like, there's no way anybody would care about this. Like, whatever. And so we, like, make this music video. And then it, like. Which is. By the way, why am I saying this phrase? Why is this phrase coming out of my mouth? It started climbing the charts. Like, why is this a part of my story and my life? Like, I was just like, what's. What is fucking happening? This is so out of the realm of anything that's supposed to be happening. And I always thought, like, because I was in the middle of making this, like, indie film, and I'd be getting, like, texts from people going, like, it just, like, got into the top 10 of, like, billboards top 100. And I was, like, in the basement of some church, like, shooting this tiny little indie film. Meanwhile, I think it was, like. I think it was. Speaking of the times Miley Cyrus and Macklemore was, like, in. Also in the top 10. And so I always just think, like, they must have been like, what the is this shit? Literally, like, who is this girl? What is this? How dare you? I'm out here, like, busting my ass on Good Morning America, putting on a live performance, and this, like, freak show, whatever this fucking is, is in the top 10. How dare I?

A (32:03)

What on earth, Anna?

B (32:05)

I would hate me. I would hate me.

A (32:08)

Did you ever learn to be like, damn, that shit's good?

B (32:11)

They did send me a platinum record.

A (32:12)

And that was pretty cool. Bye, bitch. That's literally perfect. Like, I gu. It was kind of.

B (32:16)

Oh, I guess when I got my platinum record, though.

A (32:18)

That's insane that you're like, this is so embarrassing. You guys and meanwhile, it's like the entire world learned this. I remember trying to learn it. Anna. Okay.

B (32:29)

No, you didn't.

A (32:30)

Oh, I tried.

B (32:31)

Of course, everyone. Oh, I shot your face.

A (32:34)

I couldn't really do it. You shot your face. You invented it. It's so crazy that you brought that to the movie. And they were like, yes, okay. I just realized also while you were talking, which is fun, is I have had on you Britney, Snow, Adam, Divine, and I have had on Rebel. Oh my God, I have almost had like the entire cast.

B (32:54)

Yeah, you're like collecting all the Pokemon.

A (32:57)

Yeah, yeah, I'm kind of having a good time. How would you describe your guys friendship on that cast?

B (33:02)

Honestly, I, I use this word in the truest sense of like we are a family. Like truly in the sense of like we didn't choose each other. Like we didn't ask to be in each other's lives in this way. And we're so bonded. And it does feel. There's something really, not to be lame. There's something really magic about it because so often like you'll do a big job and there'll be like one or two people maybe that you keep in touch with and they're the people that are like the most similar to you and we're all really, really different. And after like three movies you're like, I think this is like a not getting rid of each other kind of situation.

A (33:44)

I think the entire world is happy. It's a not getting rid of each other situation.

B (33:49)

And also I think that I'm, I'm very avoidant. So like actually like cracking that shell and like being in my life, like, it takes some persistence.

A (33:58)

That's a big deal.

B (33:59)

So like Britney's always joking that her, she's like, well, your phone is all white or whatever. The, you know, the blue text. Yeah, you get it, you get it. Because she's like always texting me and just being like, I know you're not gonna reply, but you know, I think that I'm kind of like certainly the curmudgeon of the group. But it is like almost like everybody has a role and you know, like, you know, Britney kind of like brings the party and I bring the grumpiness, I guess. I don't know, but I am like, it's really interesting because even the girls that are not like one of the closest girls, like when they're going through something, I get the call and it's, and it's, it makes me feel so good because I do feel like that's kind of my role in the group is like, if. If you're in jail, like, my shoes are on. We're. I'm going to. We're getting you out tonight. I don't know how, but we're going to figure it out. Whereas, like, if you need help with, like, party invitations, like, I'm gonna freeze up and be like, I don't.

A (35:05)

I don't know.

B (35:05)

I don't know. I don't know what to do. I don't know. I'm sorry. I have to leave the room right now.

A (35:08)

Call Brittany.

B (35:09)

Yeah, call Brittany. Please call Brittany.

A (35:10)

It's so fun to know that you and Britney Snow are so close, because it. I don't know, it, like, sets something right in the world. Like, I like that you guys are friends. I think it also is nice because obviously, as, like, consumers, we know that sometimes on movie sets, like, people don't get along. And there's something oddly satisfying about how amazing those movies are. And knowing you guys are so close, like, it's just a fun thing for fans.

B (35:35)

It makes me really happy. I saw some of the girls from the movie, the original, the Craft, having dinner once, and I was like, you guys are friends in real life.

A (35:43)

It makes you happy.

B (35:44)

It made me so fucking happy. So I do. I would be like, oh, I wouldn't think anyone would, like, care. But I. But seeing the Craft girls, I was like, this is so beautiful. So much to me.

A (35:56)

So now when people are crying when they see you guys out together, you get it?

B (35:59)

Totally.

A (35:59)

Are we getting a fourth one?

B (36:01)

Oh, I have no idea. I'm always like. I'm always like, Rebel is kind of like the steam train of the group on Rebel. Like, she's always like, I think we should do it. And I'm like, well, then great. We should. I agree. I'm just here for. I'll just be back up, I guess.

A (36:16)

I. We need it.

B (36:17)

I would love that because, like, we're all so busy, and I'm so happy that everybody's so, like, busy and successful and doing so much that actually getting, like, whatever, you know, the 10 of us in a room is, like, impossible. So it's usually, like, maybe six of us at a time, you know, trying to, like, have a little reunion. So it does feel like the thing that would actually get us all in a room again is, like, the movie. So that's. That's my best reason.

A (36:44)

I will watch. So let us know. Twilight.

B (36:49)

Can you believe? Can you believe? I mean, what. Okay, so someone was just asking me about, like, a while ago, I had, you know, done a silly, funny tweet where I just said, like, holy shit, I just remembered I was in Twilight. And people were like, but you didn't, like, forget. You didn't forget that you were in Twilight? And the answer is truly, truly yes and no. Because obviously, obviously I didn't forget the experience of making the movies. I didn't. You know, but those movies, like, especially at the time, took on such a life of their own. And, like, they were such a kind of, like, for. For better or for worse, like a kind of touchstone, like. Like such a reference that, you know, everybody would talk about, like, trying to find the next Twilight or whatever. And I would find myself in, like, business conversations, talking about, oh, yeah, I've heard that there's a book series that just got optioned. You know, they maybe want to try and make it the next Twilight. And then I would be like, oh, my God, I'm in. Oh, my God, I'm in the movie. Oh, my God. Because I was also so on the. Just on the outside, had a front row seat, but was just on the outside of the madness of it. And I was really, like, lucky to not be dealing with them. The Eye of the Storm, really. You know, I think that, like, a lot of the folks that were in the movie, even in the later movies where they are playing, like, as long as you were a supernatural character, if you had one line, you, like, couldn't leave your hotel room. People were crazy. And. And, you know, people were criticizing, like, oh, but she has green eyes in the book, or whatever. And I just didn't have to deal with any of that. So it's so on the. It almost feels like I didn't really have to run the gauntlet that some of the other. I mean, most of the other people did. I just had to, like, show up and say dumb, funny, and just be like, what are you guys talking about? Because they're acting weird. Okay, Everybody's really serious. Bye. Like, that was the. That was the gig. It was awesome.

A (38:53)

Jessica. Oh, my God. Jessica being like, what's so great about Bella? Like, I don't get it. Like, what's going on with Bella?

B (38:58)

Which is also crazy because when I auditioned for that, I was like, yeah, I think in the book, she's like the blonde, athletic volleyball captain, popular girl. So I was like, well, great, I'm not getting this job. And the goal then becomes like, well, I hope I just, like, making an impression on the casting director and the director so that maybe they'll remember Me for something else.

A (39:19)

Right.

B (39:20)

And so I was like, well, I'm just gonna, like, try to be, like, weird and funny because I don't know. And then they were like, oh, great. Yeah, let's do that. So there I am with, like, my. With my headband. Because, like, in that humid weather, they didn't know what to do with my hair full circle. They were like, it just keeps getting bigger. So. So it was always like in a headband or pulled back, like, really tight. And, you know, in my, like, ratty little costume, like, you know, five inches shorter than Kristen, going like, I don't even get what the point is. Meanwhile, she's so stunning in real, like, you're like, oh, my God. I'm staring into the eyes of like, a Siberian husky. She's so gorgeous. Like, I mean, she's gorgeous on screen, but like, in person. Have you met her in person?

A (40:03)

No.

B (40:03)

There's a quality, let me tell you.

A (40:05)

Really?

B (40:06)

Oh, my God. It's breathtaking. And she's obviously very beautiful. And sometimes you meet certain people and you're like, what? How dare you?

A (40:13)

Right?

B (40:14)

Why are you. Why are you doing this to me? Oh, my God. So, you know, the audacity of me to be like, I don't see. I don't see it. I don't get it.

A (40:23)

Right. You're like, right, right, right. Were you ever like, I'm being annoying, like. Or you're like, it's fine. It's my role.

B (40:28)

Yeah, I guess it was like, I'm being annoying. Which means like, you're doing. I'm doing what I'm supposed to be.

A (40:33)

You're doing your job. I'm obsessed with you being like, they trying to put my hair down. And I'm like, I don't know what to do. I know. It all comes from a circle. Okay, next movie. Alice Darling. This is like, obviously a bigger shift and is a. Basically is about a woman in emotionally abusive relationship. When you're taking on a more intense role, like, do you hesitate in those moments or do you enjoy those type of moments that are a little bit darker?

B (41:00)

It was, oh, gosh, that's weird. I'm about to use a phrase that I've been using in reference to directing, but it kind of makes sense. Cause it's a similar thing where it was like pushing myself off of a cliff and not giving myself the time to go, is this a good choice? Because it was like, it was really scary and personal and God, I'm just remembering, like, I remember I didn't tell. I Haven't thought about this in a while. I didn't tell anybody in my life. Not my, like, well, this was also kind of COVID y, so I wasn't talking to that many people. So again, I'm bringing up my therapist, but I didn't tell my therapist. I didn't tell, like, my closest friends that I was making this movie about emotional abuse because I had just gotten out of a relationship that was extremely similar to the movie, and I didn't want anybody to tell me to not do it. Like, I didn't want to get talked out of it. And I knew that there were good reasons for my friends and certainly my therapist to be like, is this the best idea for you, like, right now? So I just kept telling them it's about, like, three friends in a cabin, and, like, it's about, like, their relationships, which, in a way it is.

A (42:19)

Right.

B (42:19)

But, yeah, I. I, like, didn't even. When after the movie was wrapped, whatever. Like, they didn't even know that it was about emotional abuse until, like, the trailer came out. Because I just didn't. I just didn't want somebody to tell me. Well, I don't know. Maybe this is the childhood thing of, like, I don't want you to tell me it's bedtime. Like, I need to do this. I'm gonna do this.

A (42:39)

Can I ask, like, how long did that abusive relationship that you endured last.

B (42:45)

It was. It didn't follow the traditional pattern, which is kind of yet another reason why I was finding it really difficult to identify it and name it as abusive.

A (42:56)

Okay.

B (42:57)

Because I was, like, reading all the articles and going, like, this doesn't look ex. Like, some of it looks like how they're describing it, but not completely. And so the relationship was seven years, but it was, like, an overnight switch, and that went on for about a year. So it didn't follow that more traditional, like, it's like a frog in boiling water thing, where it started slow, it came out of absolutely nowhere, but was built on this foundation of. I had so much love and trust for that person. So I thought it had to be me. Like, I. If one of us is crazy, it must be me. So it was very, very difficult to actually go, no, this. I think this is. I think this is him. I think. I think this is his stuff. Because I turned my life completely upside down trying to fix whatever was wrong with me. And, you know, it didn't help that for a long period of time, our, like, couples therapist, I think, just bought his stuff kind of hook, line, and Sinker. And I've had several sessions with him in, you know, the last several years where he's apologized to me because I think he realized what was going on, like, toward. Right toward the end. But, yeah, that obviously made everything a lot more complicated.

A (44:23)

We always have to remember, like, therapists are human beings, too, and a lot of times they don't know the inner dynamics. And if you are with a very manipulative person, though, that is good. In crowds, like, they can mask it pretty easily. And you can be kind of painted to be the person that's, like, insane, or you're unreasonable, or you're, like, unwilling to make the relationship work. And when you have a licensed person staring at you next to the person that is abusive.

B (44:50)

Cause we project so much authority onto them, even though we kind of know intellectually well they're just people. It's like, I just want. And it was also, I just want someone to tell me what's happening. Like, I wasn't even thinking, like, we're gonna go into couples therapy, and he's gonna, you know, ream you out, and it's gonna. I was just like, will someone just explain to me what's going on? So, yeah, it was. It was full on. But it was also interesting that, like. Like, I always felt like I was trying to stay so calm in couples therapy, because I was, like, in these sessions, he's so able to kind of stay calm in a way that he does not do when we're outside of therapy. And then there was a day again toward the end where I really kind of, like, lost my. And I did think, like, oh, my God, like, what have I done? Like, what have I done? Like, I can't. It's gonna be so bad now. Like, what? What did I do?

A (45:46)

What do you mean? What do you mean it's gonna be so bad?

B (45:48)

Like, if things. When I'm trying so hard to, like, appease this person, they're so fucking awful. So how bad is it gonna get now that I've, like, yelled it, you know? And I sent. After that session, I. First of all, weirdly, he was fine, which was very weird, very interesting, because I think he felt, like, maybe a little bit, like, calm, because he was like, see? You're crazy. So it was weirdly fine. But I sent the therapist an email, being like, I'm so embarrassed. I'm so sorry. Like, I, you know, I need to control myself or whatever, because I had yelled in this session, and he called me, which he hadn't done before, and was like, no, no, I'm so proud of you. And that's when I knew, like, oh, something has shifted, like something's changed.

A (46:41)

Right?

B (46:41)

And then, yeah, things ended pretty quickly after that.

A (46:44)

I mean, I appreciate you sharing this just because I have so many women that listen that are like, what are the signs? And like I, I appreciate you how you opened the conversation about this topic about like it literally changed overnight. And I was reading all the articles being like, is this me? Well, no, that's not me. You try to justify things like, do you mind sharing anything that maybe like my listeners could be like, oh, this, this is happening to me too, that like, maybe doesn't present as like, this is abusive and toxic, but the undertone is so there.

B (47:18)

God, it's so hard. It's so hard. And I, well, I don't know, maybe I'll, maybe I'll think of something. But it's, this conversation is even like really complicated for me. It's like even talking about it, I can feel like my, my body temperature going up. Because I think that sometimes the conversation around like red flags, like those are important conversations that we should be having. We should be talking about it, like thinking about it, looking for them, sharing with each other. And I think that even the most well meaning conversation sometimes about like red flags is, can be a little victim blamey, which is hard because I'm like, well also I want to know, you know, and share red flags because it does sort of put the onus on you to be able to identify something that by the way, someone is working so hard to make sure you can't identify. Like I really started thinking about it like, like if someone was raised from birth as like a wilderness survivalist and they just dropped you or I mean, I don't know, maybe, maybe you have this in your background, but if they dropped you or me in the middle of the woods, I would step into a booby trap within three feet.

A (48:41)

Yes.

B (48:41)

Because I don't know what to look for. And it's like, because I didn't spend my life learning how to build or identify treasure traps. Like, how is it that we're meant to like be inside the mind of someone who is working very hard to make sure that you feel very unsteady and are questioning yourself. So it's really, it's really complicated and it's, it's, it's hard for me because I, there are even times when I talk about my situation where as I'm saying it, I will go, am I making that up? Am I making everything up? Like, I remember having a conversation with my therapist, like, a year after that relationship, where I was constantly asking her to just diagnose me with, like, an egosyntonic disorder so that I could just fix it and make sure that, like, oh, this just won't happen again, or something. And there was a point where she was talking about my ex, and she started to say something where she was like, well, you know when you're dealing with a wolf in sheep's clothing? And I went, no, no. What if I'm the wolf? Like, what if it was me? Because I think that was the thing that I didn't expect was how totally convinced he was of his own victimhood. Like, I know him well enough in spite of feeling like, well, I didn't know him at all, but I know him well enough to know, like, he's not an actor. He's not a performer. He, you know, not a great liar in a lot of ways. So I was, like, looking at someone who was actually kind of, like, suffering. And I thought, like, well, if he's being manipulative, I'll know it, because, you know, I'll smell the bullshit. Like, I'll smell that this is kind of a performance that he's putting on. But I don't think he was putting on a performance. I think he genuinely believed that I was, like, torturing him. He told me one day I was terrorizing him because I was just crying because I couldn't pretend that things were fine anymore. And I just started crying, and he screamed in my face, you're terrorizing me. But it was truly from the place of a person who believed that they were being terrorized. So I. I don't. I don't know if that's. Would resonate with people, but it does. It's like, even when I would watch these videos, I would read the articles and watch the videos, and when, like, Dr. Ramany, who I love, like, you know, she's. She's doing, like, an impression of a fight where, you know, some abusive piece of shit goes, alex, you're crazy. But that's not how it actually sounds. It's like it was like sometimes it was so emotional, it was like, anna, I'm begging you. Like, you're ruining everything. You're making. Like, it was so real for him that it was like, am I really. Am I doing something terrible? And I think that, you know, especially with conversations about, like, well, you're always out with your friends and trying to isolate you. Those kind of things. Like, I think they're really convinced that you're doing something terrible to them.

A (51:54)

Right.

B (51:55)

So, like, the pain place is real. And that can be very, very misleading and convincing.

A (52:00)

I just want to say the way that you. Everything you just said.

B (52:04)

Yeah. Did that any of that make sense?

A (52:06)

100%. It made so much sense. If anything, it's probably one of the best descriptions of it because I really, really appreciate you saying, like, I still am uncovering some of the red flags because I'm still even in my head being like, did that even happen? Am I. Is it still. Some of it on me? Like, I think that is a great message to just give to everyone. Listening is like, it is not normal. You should not be like, oh, that's bad behavior. And I recognize that you're being manipulative and gaslighting and blah, blah. Like, when you're with someone that you love for so long and it does turn into an abusive situation, it is so hard to see. And that's why ignorant people that whether they don't have someone that they know or it never happened to them, or like, why didn't you just leave? It's so.

B (52:54)

It's so hard.

A (52:55)

It's so much harder than that. Because even you, to this day, sitting here being like, I still. In my head, I'm like, was that real? Like, yeah, it's.

B (53:02)

And even sharing that, I'm like, should I even say that? Like, there's something like, that feels, I think incorrectly, but feels like, shameful about how am I not more solid in my, like, healing recovery, whatever. How am I still.

A (53:16)

But it's not that in it. It's like you are present in your reality today, but when you reflect back on that relationship and that inner dynamic with that person, you are still perplexed by how the person sitting here today was in a situation and how that went. Like, that I think is normal. Like, I think that's what people struggle with. And that's why I'm appreciative of you talking with me about this. Because, like, it is so weird when you're like, I am happy and healthy now, so how can I still be affected by that? I think it would be weird to not be affected by someone that manipulated you in a way, because it distorts your reality completely. And so, like, you sitting here, like, I guess I could ask, like, how have you learned? And I'm sure you're still doing it, like, to trust yourself again.

B (53:59)

Yeah, it's hard. I mean, yeah. I mean, even. Even having this conversation, you know, like, in the. I know we haven't, like, gotten there, but in the movie that I made, like, something small, like, you know, there are all these different women in the film and they all have, like, very different personalities. And that felt important to me because as like, yet another kind of small reason why it feels like, hey, there's no. I wish there was, but there is no way to guarantee protection from someone who is determined to harm you. And that sounds grim, and I guess it is. But surely, like, the least we can do when someone has harmed us, when we come out of, like a devastating situation, is take off that top layer of shame where we go, well, I should have known. I should have seen. I should have been different. I should have been the tough girl. I should have been the sweet girl. I should have done. And it's like, none of that will save you. None of that will save you. And again, like, I almost hate saying that because it's so bleak, but I think I have. I did and still sometimes do so much self shaming around, like, how did I. How did I find myself in that situation? Like, I'm a real asshole. So, like, how did I. How did I not do the thing that I would have told you that I would do, which was immediately be like, throw a scarf over my shoulder and be like, have a nice life, dick. And. And like, I. It's. There's something like, so vulnerable and kind of humiliating about the fact that, like, I just stayed. And I kept thinking, I'll. I'll just try to be, I don't know, warmer or better or something. I mean, even when this was the, like our schedule was getting worked out to, to come and record this, it was like, the next day I went on social media and I saw a video of you talking about an experience you had where you were like, why did I not just leave? And I was like, girl, I. You were in a fawn response.

A (56:09)

Yeah.

B (56:10)

And like, that's the whole, like, woman of the hour. That's. It's like all fawn response. It's all just like, what do I have to do to survive? Like, you were doing what you had to do to survive.

A (56:36)

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B (59:48)

Why weren't you just assertive?

A (59:50)

And why weren't like, it's not that easy. And it's. And I. I now want to talk about the movie because you're right. There are so many themes in it that are so brilliantly portraying what we as women go through every day. And then it also, women will be like, yup, I've been there. I've been there. And still to this day, like, I don't know if men completely understand what we have to go through and why we fawn instead of scream, kick, and punch in the face. Let's talk about the movie Woman of the Hour. I. First of all, you were set to, you know, be the lead, right? And then you also directed it. How did this come to be?

B (60:25)

Yeah, so I actually got the script for Alice Darling and Woman of the Hour. Like, the same, like, month at least, like, I want to say the same week, but. But it might have been the same month. And, you know, certain movies just come together quickly and certain movies take forever. So I was attached as an actor for, like, two years, and, you know, you're just sort of like, well, I love this script. I love this story. You know, let me know. And. And that happens a lot in. In the industry. And the other thing that happens is that sometimes, you know, something will just be kicking around for a long time, and then out of nowhere, it will be like, hey, we raised the money and we have a start date, so let's try to keep this train on the tracks because otherwise it'll probably, like, disappear again. Right? And so we were, like, suddenly starting the search for a director. And I basically had, like, 48 hours where it was like, this voice going, anna, you should pitch yourself. And me going, shut up. Absolutely not. Everyone needs to be quiet. We're not doing that. And it was that same feeling of like, I'm, oh, my God, I'm going to push myself off a cliff. And so I pitched myself to direct the movie because I felt like I had become slowly kind of obsessed with the script. And there was a little bit of me, like, where I would give, like, ideas, feedback, whatever, but, you know, it was. There were, you know, producers Cooks in the kitchen, whatever. And I was always a little bit like, well, you know, if it were my movie, I would probably do it like that, but it's not my movie, so whatever. And the idea of taking it and just tweaking it that little bit was really exciting to me. So I pitched myself and I got the job. And then six weeks later, I was in Canada doing, like, hard prep for the movie. And then we. And then we were, like, making the movie. And it really was like, I'm going to push myself off a cliff, and I guess I will find out on the way down if I packed this parachute correctly. Because, like, if. If it had been six months later, I would have panicked and backed out. I would have been like, you guys are right. We should find someone way more experienced. It'll. It'll be great. But I had also, in the last, like, five years before that, started to have the experience of looking around a film set and going, huh? Oh. Oh, God. I'm the most experienced person here.

A (62:54)

Oh.

B (62:55)

Oh, no. I'm the most experienced person here, and I'm an idiot. This is a nightmare. Like, it wasn't like, ooh, hot shit. It was like, oh, no. But you are like, oh, wow. I've been. I've been doing this a long time. So, yeah, it felt like, okay, it's kind of a now or never thing. And I was absolutely terrified. But I was trying to kind of just, like, fake it, right? I was like, I'm a super confident leader. I should be in charge of things. And again, like, I don't know about you, but, like, I absolutely overthink things, and I can get paralyzed in perfectionism, all that stuff. And then when, like, my back was against the wall or, like, things were really running behind and you don't really have a choice but to be running on, like, adrenaline and instinct. There were even things in the edit where, you know, you're looking at, like, the stuff in between takes where I would see myself, like, run into the frame and, like, give the actor a note and, like, adjust a piece of set deck. And I was like, well, that lady seems like she knows what she's doing.

A (64:10)

Damn.

B (64:11)

Okay. Like, when I'm in a blind panic and you don't really have a choice, I was like, she seems like she's an authority figure. How about that?

A (64:20)

I mean, it's an incredible movie, and you should be so proud of yourself. I know you are, but, like, to know that I didn't realize it was that where you're like, should I pitch Myself. Should I pitch myself? Thank God you pitched yourself because it's awesome. Like, it really is amazing. Coming from somewhere that gets so scared from movies like this.

B (64:38)

I know, I know. And I did tell you. I was like, well, if you made it through the first five minutes, it's all. It's like it gets easier from.

A (64:44)

It gets easier. But before, like, for people who haven't watched it yet, the movie is based on an insane true story. Can you give just like a little bit of a, A bite for them to understand what's going on?

B (64:54)

Yeah. So it's based on the true story of a serial killer in the 1970s who went on the show the Dating Game. And it moves around through time. So it's kind of following this like more than a decade long period where he was really operating without consequence because nobody was really looking for him. Which is another interesting. And by interesting I mean enraging aspect of the story. But I play the bachelorette who's on the Dating Game and that some of that footage exists online, but the full episode, like all the footage appears to have been kind of like lost to time. So the screenwriter kind of used that vacuum as this opportunity to. It's almost like a fantasy section of the movie, except the fantasy is what if a woman stood up for herself? Can you imagine? But it's like, it's interesting because speaking of like asserting yourself, it's a really fun section of the movie. It's a, it's a, you know, it's a, it's a really tense movie. But like, that section is kind of fun. But as the viewer, it's complicated because you know that, okay, she's been shrinking herself and in a fawn response and she's like standing up for herself, which is so fun to watch. But we know she's getting herself closer and closer to danger. And it's complicated. Like there are times where you go, why don't I just assert myself? And it's like sometimes it's not that simple.

A (66:31)

Women will understand those moments where you stroke the ego or you actually are like so nice in situations that you're so uncomfortable in because in your head you're like, the only way I'm getting out of the situation is to be so appeasing and so nice and work it. And then all of a sudden I know I'll be able to get out at, at some point. But to a normal person that's never been in that situation or isn't, a woman is like, wait, why don't they just like Scream and run. That's right. And you're like, first of all, if I tried to scream and run, I'm dead. So you okay? Like, clearly we're not that dumb. I think that was like something very interesting in the movie. Obviously. I talked to you earlier before we got out here about like, that parking lot scene. Just like struck me because I think every woman, anytime you were in a dark area and you are walking anywhere, your senses go up where you're like, what the is gonna happen to me? What the is gonna happen to me? Am I gonna die? Am I gonna get murdered? How do you think this movie, like, what do you think it says about how women are preyed upon in society?

B (67:34)

Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, I just want to say, like, it's so interesting that you use the word like your senses go up. Because even the way that, like, that scene was kind of the first scene that I could like, visualize. And I imagined it in kind of mediums and close ups. And then when that thing happens where we've all been there, where you're like, an interaction is perfectly pleasant. And then 10 seconds later you're like, wait, 10 seconds ago everything felt fine. And now like, something feels very fucking dangerous. It almost is like your entire, like your hearing, your peripheral vision is just like, okay, where do I see movement? Where do I hear movement? How unsafe am I? And so that's when like, the camera goes jumps wide because it's like, oh. That's when you would be aware of like, oh, this parking lot is empty. Like, there's not a maintenance man. There's not a passing couple. Like, all I can hear is the buzz of the street lights. And it really is like in those moments in your own mind, you're like, oh, I can almost hear like the ringing in my own ears because, like, there's nothing. Fuck. There's nothing. Nothing.

A (68:39)

That is so interesting stylistically. Like you having the decision making around the camera angles and how different. Not that like, we love men and we love male directors, but I'm just like, so curious to know, like, how a man would have directed that scene where you're directing it like, so in the presence of your own body and how you would feel in that moment, man.

B (69:07)

And there were times when people were talking about, like when we were on set, people were talking about me as like, oh, I'm so glad a woman's directing this. And there were times where I was like, is it making that much of a difference? I can't really tell. And then there Were like, you know, there were. There were a bunch of examples like this, but there was a. There's a moment where, like, the girl in the New York City apartment when she kind of realizes, like, oh, something's wrong. I don't know what's wrong, but something's wrong. And she doesn't even drop her smile, and you can just sort of see it in her eyes. And when we were shooting that, one of my producers was like, should we just do another take where it's just more clear what's happening? And I was like, it will be very clear to women what's happening. Like, I think it will be clear to most men, But I was also like, if there's, like, 20 of men who are like, I don't understand what's happening in the scene, fine.

A (69:55)

Right? That's okay.

B (69:55)

That would be fine. I would much rather like, actually be like, no, this is how you would handle this? Like, you wouldn't let on at all.

A (70:04)

No.

B (70:05)

So interesting. So, yeah, it was like, oh, I wasn't really sure how, like, being a woman director would really show up in the movie. But then, yeah, there were a bunch of things like that where I was like, oh, no, that's not even what the scene's about. Like, what?

A (70:18)

No, I love it so much. And I. I think, again, the themes are so important for people in society to just, like, grasp onto and understand. And I think this is, like, a very accurate depiction. Obviously heightened. Like, we're not all not, like, dealing with, like. Like, a murderer, serial killer.

B (70:34)

You know, there are so many stories that I hear where. I mean, even your story where you're like, why did I. Why didn't I just. Whatever. It's like, you did what you had to do. Are you kidding?

A (70:44)

I know.

B (70:45)

Are you kidding?

A (70:46)

It's just so weird. Daddy Gang, we're talking about the Paris episode. The Paris story. If you haven't listened, go listen. But, like, yes, that story. I remember being so even anxious to tell the story online at first because I was like. Like, oh, God.

B (70:58)

Like, everyone's just gonna say, like, well, girl, what were you thinking?

A (71:01)

Like, why'd you get on a plane? Like, why'd you go? And I'm like, because I thought that he was a normal, nice man. Like, I think that's what we all go into it. Like, unless you are burned so deeply from a young age, which is horrific, and you have your. Those, like, guards up from a young age, you go through life for a while until you hit a point where you are over in a way that, like, will stay with you for the rest of your life. And we wish that wouldn't happen to us. But when it happens, you can't unsettle. See it. But before it happens, you're trusting people completely. You're like, I want to trust people. I want to have a good time with someone.

B (71:36)

Like, isn't it interesting that we're so easily in induced to go? Like, well, what were you thinking? Like, trusting someone. Thinking. Thinking other people are good. But then, by the way, if you're like, oh, I'm kind of cagey about dating and stuff right now, it's like, well, you got to open yourself up. You're like, all right, maybe. Oh, oh, oh, oh. This is a setup. This is a trap. Oh, I see. I see. There's no winning.

A (71:58)

Winning.

B (71:59)

Got it.

A (71:59)

There's no winning dining. Wait. Speaking of dating, as we're wrapping up, I promise.

B (72:03)

No. Are you.

A (72:05)

Are you dating? Are you single? What's going on? Call her. Daddy is brought to you by A Diamond is forever. You are not the same person you were last year. And that's. That's literally the point. Life is about growth, Daddy Gang, okay? Life is about change and becoming more of who you're meant to be. And when it's time to mark that growth, the way you choose to honor the moments and milestones that make you who you are should reflect, you know, you. That's where desert tone diamonds come in. Okay, Desert diamonds are the perfect way to celebrate all that you are and all that you're still becoming. They come in a range of unique, unexpected colors. Colors that reflect your unique, unexpected journey. Warm whites, pale champagnes, deep amber, smoky whiskeys. Natural colors that are truly unlike anything that you've seen. I think everyone nowadays, it's like you want to be unique. You want to have things that not everybody has, right? So, Daddy gang, you deserve this. This year, discover desert diamonds and give yourself something as unique as you are. And that's why a diamond is forever. Visit a diamondisforever.com to learn more. Call her. Daddy is brought to you by T Mobile Daddies. I'm starting to suspect that a night in is the new nightlife. Okay, this is my life now. Snacks, comfy clothes. I want to romanticize doing absolutely nothing. And on those nights when I'm staying in, T Mobile has me covered with value that keeps on stacking up the more I use it. Like. Hi. Streaming benefits and snack perks that truly deliver. Guys, the math is mathing, okay? There are so many perks and benefits T Mobile is basically making staying in a full blown lifestyle powered by carbs and content. I am a T Mobile Stan, okay? Anyone that makes me feel not only better, but great about staying in. Yeah, I love you, T Mobile. Okay? And if you have T Mobile like I do, you won't believe how good staying in can be. Check it out at t mobile.com/magenta Status, Disclaimer streaming benefits included while you maintain a qualifying experience beyond plan line. Are you dating? Are you single? What's going on?

B (74:28)

No, no, I'm, I'm, I'm single. But it is funny. I was like, I was thinking the other day, I've. I've been single for a while.

A (74:33)

Yeah.

B (74:34)

And. And I was like, oh, God, I'm. This is very me. I'm very avoidant and I, I have all these kind of like little traps in, in my head or like escape hatches or whatever. And I think like for a long time now, I've been like, nope, no prospects. Meanwhile, I'm like, every time your phone buzzes, it's someone being like, oh, I know this guy who writes on this great. He's on that show that's so great that every love. And he like really wants to meet you, so just let me know. And like, I just put it back down and go, no prospects for old Anna. Poor, poor Anna. Nobody wants me. Like, it's like such a game that I'm playing with myself where I'm like, oh, I'm not wanting to go. So I just like, don't see what's happening. Like, people, like, people going like, I'd love to take you out for a meal. And me going like, oh, he wants to be buddies. Like, that's not even a euphemism. That's just like how people ask you on dates. And it's just amazing the way that I'm like, ah, no one for poor Hannah. It's so pathetic.

A (75:34)

You're just not in the mood.

B (75:35)

Yeah, basically. Well, and also, like, I made this movie about like the most dangerous, violent man, so there might be some bleed over there.

A (75:43)

No, I think it's. I love when people are like, no, I'm not dating. I think like, we can normalize that. When people are like, you're not seeing anyone. I hate those friends that are like, come on. It's like, first of all, shut up. I'll do it when I want to. But clearly, like, yes, you went through something with someone and you made this movie and now it's like, you're gonna get back out There. When you want to get back out there, is there anything that's like a non negotiable for you in a relationship?

B (76:07)

Oh, well, in spite of my not great experience with couples therapy, I was like, first of all, I'm never getting involved with a man. Meaning, like, we're not even kissing. We're not, like, I'm not even. We're not even going to like have a real conversation unless you are in or have been in therapy. And if we're actually like, okay, maybe this is a relationship. We're getting a couple therapists from jump. From jump. And like, by the way, that guarantees nothing like even that. But yeah, I. I love that a.

A (76:39)

Man that's in therapy.

B (76:43)

I know, it warms my. It warms my heart.

A (76:45)

It's a good sign.

B (76:46)

It is not a guarantee of anything.

A (76:47)

You're right, it's not a guarantee. But at least it's like a little bit more like, it's a little bit more in the right direction completely. Because a man that's like, I would never go to therapy. I'm like, what's wrong with you? You're the one that has the most trauma. Like, not a good sign.

B (77:01)

And can I say, I mean, even the kind of going back to the red flag thing that, like, I'm aware that, you know, I love that there is a bit of a community and women wanting to share, like, ooh, this turned out to be a red flag. And like, you know, we should know those things and know that, like, it doesn't necessarily protect us to look out for those things. But I was like, I was thinking about how, you know, a classic one is like, any guy that says, like, oh, all my exes are crazy, that's a red flag. I was like, you know, all of these guys have access to the same Internet and the same culture that we do. So I don't think that they're rocking up to first dates and going, oh, all my exes are crazy fucking bitches. They're like, it was a messy situation. It was, you know, and I've been burned. And look, I probably contributed in some ways too, but I'm like, I think as we're learning it, they are too not to be like, oh, they're like. And I don't even think they're doing it on purpose.

A (78:00)

No, you're right.

B (78:00)

It's just happening subconsciously.

A (78:02)

No, like, the. Those little. Are fully learning off of this episode being like, don't say this, do this. No, you're right, you're right. They're taking notes. Like, they're not idiots. You're right.

B (78:12)

I had a guy tell me about an ex where he was doing, like, it was almost like he was getting me to collude with him by. By being like, no, she was a great person. But then would tell me things about her that would make me go, that's not okay. That's awful. And he would sort of be like, oh, wow. Really? Do you think it was. And then it was all bullshit. It was all full on fabricated crazy. But, like, it. It is like, oh, they're.

A (78:38)

Oh.

B (78:38)

Oh, they're learning. They're like velociraptors. My God.

A (78:41)

Okay, so on a first date, what do you want to be doing on a first date? Are you going to a dinner? Are you doing a coffee? Are you doing a fucking zoom meeting?

B (78:48)

Oh, my God.

A (78:49)

What are we doing? What's your ideal first date?

B (78:52)

I know. I'm like, is there a way to just, like, have it, like, at my house in my pajamas? I mean, like, you have to look nice, and I will be, like, recording it for the authorities, so don't try anything. But I. Yeah, I am like, what? Leave the house dinner? Alex, that's disgusting. Why would you say that you'll do it, but go to a movie?

A (79:13)

What?

B (79:13)

Oh, my God.

A (79:14)

Your movie. How iconic? Yes, kind of iconic. Okay, last two questions. What is your best quality that you think you bring to a relationship?

B (79:24)

Oh, God. Oh. Sometimes when I feel like I've seen, like, memes and stuff online about, like, the girlfriend that will be like, this isn't what he ordered. You know how, like, some men are like, oh, that. Well, this isn't. But that's okay. And I'll just eat it. Like, I'm very much like the bodyguard. Like, I think I'm compensating for how short I am. I'm always like, wait, wait, now hang on a second. Which is weird because I'm the person where, if the wrong thing comes, I'll just eat it. But when it's somebody else, and it's the same thing with friends where I'm like, where are they? No, no, no, no, no, no. Who said that to you?

A (80:01)

No, no, no.

B (80:02)

Where are they? I just want to talk. No, no, I just want to talk. Like, I go. I really talk crazy to people. It's. It's a lot. But I don't know. I like that about myself.

A (80:10)

I kind of like.

B (80:10)

I don't know. If you find that it's way easier for me when it's somebody else.

A (80:13)

Of course and then to stick up for yourself, you're like, oh, no, no, no, no. Never, never. But to someone else, I'm like, oh, I got you, bitch. I'm coming in. Go.

B (80:21)

No, I'm like, they're already dead. I don't. We don't even have to worry about it. I slept their throat last night. It's fine.

A (80:26)

That's a good friend to have. This is good to know about you. Brittany's lucky, but you're also lucky.

B (80:31)

I am very lucky.

A (80:32)

Last question. What do you think is, like, the biggest misconception about you?

B (80:36)

Oh, God, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, sometimes. Okay, sometimes I don't know if this counts as, like, a misconception, but sometimes I truly don't realize how dry I'm being. I have, like, like, such nervous kid sister energy around, like, real, like, comics. And so I'll try to, like, be funny. Like, even. Even if someone's just funny, Like, I'll be like, oh, yeah, I have to, like, keep up and I'll go so dry that I think sometimes I don't realize it comes off like I'm being dead serious. I saw a video of my. I saw a TikTok of my self once. I was at this party, and this guy, like, you know, just got me to do, like, a video with him. And I was joking that he told me that he'd been, like, filming me from across the party. It was fine. It was fine, whatever. But I was like, oh, we're doing a bit about how, like, oh, you were secretly filming me. Like, so, okay, we're doing, like. I'm like, yeah, we're doing a bit. And then I. I see the TikTok because it, like, went viral. And I was like, oh, my God. It seems like I'm. It seems like I'm. It seems like I'm ready to kill this man. Which, like, look, mostly, am I ready to kill men at any given moment?

A (81:56)

A little.

B (81:57)

But I was like, I'm being so funny. And then I saw it back, and I was like, oh, my God. And all the comments were like, wait, is she being serious? And I was like, I don't know. Am I being serious? My God. And it really. I'd never, like, seen just a video of me doing a video bit that wasn't, like, coming across as a bit, right? So I was like, oh, my God, how many times? How many times? Because this is, like, the tone that I snap into when there's, like, a comedy director or something, like, where I was like, oh wow. There have gotta be so many situations where they're like, I don't know, I thought we were getting along fine and then, and then she just snapped. She like went like dead eyed on me or something. Meanwhile, I'm like, I'm being so funny. It's going great. Okay, like I'm nailing it. Anna. You're nailing it.

A (82:40)

And that is the end of the episode. And that concludes today's session, ladies and gentlemen, Anna. Thank you so much for coming on caller Daddy. This was so fun. You're amazing.

B (82:51)

Thank you so much for everything.

A (82:52)

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