Chappell Roan: Are People Scared Of Me?

Summary

Call Her Daddy: Episode Summary

Title: Chappell Roan: Are People Scared Of Me?
Host: Alex Cooper
Guest: Kaylee Amstutz (Chappell Roan)
Release Date: March 26, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Call Her Daddy, host Alex Cooper welcomes singer-songwriter Kaylee Amstutz, known by her stage name Chappell Roan. The conversation delves deep into Chappell's personal and professional life, exploring her fashion choices, relationships, experiences with fame, and her evolving understanding of sexuality.

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Style and Fashion

Chappell opens up about her distinctive fashion sense, often collaborating with stylists like Genesis Webb and designers such as Thom Browne. At one point, she reminisces about her bold outfit for Bonnaroo—a "club kid themed, latex, medical latex, sexy, kinky girl" ensemble that, despite being "disturbing," made her feel "so awesome" (01:27). She contrasts this with a more subdued look worn at Lollapalooza, where she appreciated the comfort of wearing tennis shoes. Chappell also shares a humorous yet candid story about dealing with a particularly memorable green spray from her outfit, which left her looking "moldy for four days" after extensive attempts to remove it (02:00).

Notable Quote:
Chappell reflects on her fashion transformations, stating, "I look scary, but, like, I love looking, like, kind of crazy and scary, but I love that." (02:03)

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Personal Life and Friendships

Chappell discusses her close-knit relationships with friends from her Midwest upbringing, many of whom are now married with children. She expresses a sense of disconnect, questioning the realism of attaining similar life milestones (06:45). Despite her busy career, she maintains these friendships, although she humorously notes the challenges of meeting up due to their familial responsibilities.

Notable Quote:
On maintaining friendships amidst her rising fame, Chappell says, "They're really awesome. We have such different lives." (12:47)

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Relationships and Sexuality

A significant portion of the episode delves into Chappell's views on relationships and her sexuality. She candidly shares her struggles with maintaining personal relationships amidst her career, highlighting the blurred lines between her public persona (Chappell Roan) and her private self (Kaylee Amstutz). Chappell expresses frustration over past relationships where she felt she compromised her values for companionship, leading to a sense of bitterness and self-respect issues (52:02).

Chappell also explores her journey with sexuality, identifying as queer and discussing her experiences dating women. She contrasts these relationships with past experiences with men, emphasizing a desire for mutual giving and understanding in romantic connections. Chappell admits to feeling overly sensitive and cautious in her personal interactions, a shift influenced by her public life and the vulnerability that comes with fame (35:08).

Notable Quote:
Reflecting on her sexual experiences, Chappell states, "When I started hooking up with women, I realized how easy it is to eat a girl out and how this whole time I thought it was..." (67:56)

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Challenges of Fame

Chappell opens up about the pressures of fame, discussing the constant scrutiny and the invasive nature of being in the public eye. She shares unsettling experiences, such as unwarranted fans at the airport and feeling watched everywhere she goes. Chappell emphasizes the importance of mental health and boundary-setting, advocating for measures like spending more on security to protect her privacy (73:30).

Notable Quote:
On dealing with paparazzi and unsolicited attention, Chappell remarks, "People know everything about me. People know my flight numbers, People know everything." (76:10)

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Music and Creative Process

Throughout the episode, Chappell discusses her music, particularly her song "Pink Pony Club," which is inspired by her experiences at the Abbey Club in Los Angeles. She describes the vibrant and chaotic atmosphere of the club, which initially ignited her passion for dance and performance. However, the intense environment also made her self-conscious, leading her to channel these feelings into her music (28:27).

Additionally, Chappell talks about her songwriting process, often turning personal turmoil into creative expression. For instance, her song "The Giver" addresses issues of mutual satisfaction in relationships, reflecting her personal growth and evolving understanding of intimacy (63:32).

Notable Quote:
On her creative inspiration, Chappell shares, "What I'm saying in the song is these country boys are not going to give you what you need if you want to have an orgasm..." (63:37)

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Personal Struggles and Growth

Chappell candidly discusses her internal struggles with identity and self-worth, especially in the context of her career. She expresses resentment towards the aspects of fame that make it difficult to maintain a private life, leading to challenges in forming genuine connections. Chappell reflects on her past behaviors, acknowledging the sacrifices she's made for her career and the impact on her personal relationships (36:59).

She also touches upon societal expectations placed on her as a gay woman in the entertainment industry, facing pressure to be politically correct and knowledgeable about various social issues. Chappell asserts her limitations, emphasizing that while she strives to be informed, she doesn't possess all the answers (43:54).

Notable Quote:
Regarding societal pressures, Chappell states, "I'm a pop star. I wish I had the answers. I wish the president was a pop star, but she's not." (44:11)

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with Chappell expressing gratitude for the support from fellow female artists and sharing her aspirations for future projects, including new music and festival looks. Alex Cooper praises Chappell for her honesty and relatability, highlighting the authenticity she brings to her conversations.

Notable Quote:
Chappell sums up her journey with pride, saying, "I did not do, like, I did not jump through the hoops that I was told I had to to get a Grammy." (77:39)

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Key Takeaways:

• Authenticity in Fashion: Chappell values bold and unique fashion choices that reflect her personality, even when they lead to humorous mishaps.

• Navigating Fame: The pressures of fame significantly impact personal relationships and mental well-being, leading to a need for strict boundaries.

• Evolving Sexuality: Chappell's journey into embracing her queer identity has reshaped her understanding of intimacy and mutual satisfaction in relationships.

• Creative Expression: Personal struggles serve as a foundational element in Chappell's songwriting, allowing her to transform adversity into art.

• Societal Expectations: As a gay woman in the music industry, Chappell faces additional pressures to be politically correct and socially informed, which she navigates with honesty and self-awareness.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• 01:27: "I wore one for Bonnaroo that was club kid themed, and it was latex, medical latex, sexy, kinky girl." – Chappell Roan
• 02:03: "I look scary, but, like, I love looking, like, kind of crazy and scary, but I love that." – Chappell Roan
• 35:08: "I think that was a part of myself that was fun and, like, I feel like that part of me exists on stage." – Chappell Roan
• 63:37: "These country boys are not going to give you what you need if you want to have an orgasm." – Chappell Roan
• 76:10: "People know everything about me. People know my flight numbers, People know everything." – Chappell Roan

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For a more in-depth understanding, listen to the full episode of Call Her Daddy featuring Chappell Roan on her journey through fame, personal growth, and the complexities of modern relationships.

Transcript

[Alex Cooper]

What is up, Daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper.

[Chapel Roan]

With Call Her Daddy.

[Alex Cooper]

Chapel Roan. Welcome to Call Her Daddy.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Thank you.

[Alex Cooper]

I am so happy to be meeting you. I'm such a fan. So this is, like, a very cool moment. How are you doing tonight?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I'm good.

[Alex Cooper]

I have to tell you, everyone always wants to do, like, early interviews. I'm not a morning person, so this is like, one of the later interviews I've done. Are you a night person?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I like both. I have insomnia.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

So really, it's like I'm an all day, all night person until I take my pills.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay, great. So you're just up?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I'm up.

[Alex Cooper]

You're with me right now.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I am.

[Alex Cooper]

Good to know. Okay, good to know. Talk to me about what you are wearing. This is everything. How did you pick this?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Well, I'm styled by Genesis Webb, but I'm wearing Thom Browne. And some of this is archival, which is amazing, but it's like a little white and red striped outfit. Vibe. All of it's Tom Brown. It's just the best. He's the best.

[Alex Cooper]

It literally looks like you are the host of the show. You look like you are running this room right now, and I'm the outsider. You look perfect.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Oh, my God. Thank you.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay, you're obviously known for your incredible, amazing outfits. What has been your favorite outfit to date that you've worn during a performance?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I wore one for Bonnaroo that was club kid themed, and it was latex, medical latex, sexy, kinky girl. And it is kind of, like, disturbing in a way, but I felt so awesome. I love that.

[Alex Cooper]

I was gonna say now I need to go Google that.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yeah, it's. I look scary, but, like, I love looking, like, kind of crazy and scary, but I love that. I mean, the Lollapalooza one was so fucking awesome because I got to wear tennis shoes.

[Alex Cooper]

Gov ball. When you literally, like, were all green.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Okay. I don't think people know this. I had to spread my cheeks.

[Alex Cooper]

You're lying to me.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

No, I had to spread my cheeks and get sprayed with green and, like, it didn't come off. The way I got that off was I took three baths. Not soap, dish soap. I literally poured dish soap in and scrubbed, rubbed my whole body with coconut oil, jumped in, scrubbed with a literal, like, kitchen sponge, and every. All of it came off, except there was a green tint to my skin. So I literally looked moldy for four days.

[Alex Cooper]

How, like, humbling when all of your fans are like, queen Slay. You look gorgeous and then you're home literally scrubbing your. And you're like, oh, yeah, this is my life.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I was like scrubbing my like bikini lines and like my pubes are pulling out from at all. I don't have, I'm not, I'm not even like lasered or anything.

[Alex Cooper]

It's so glamorous.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Can't.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah, I love it. Okay. How do you usually though, dress on a chill day? Like, are you always going hard glam? Are you always having an outfit?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Sometimes I love having an outfit, but usually not with glam. Like this. Like I'm not wearing a lash or you know, anything like that or nails really. But I'm not in a lot of color. That's the thing. Like I'm in a lot of blacks and a lot of like taupes and whites and creams. Like nothing. Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

Are you ever doing sweatpants?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, sometimes. Okay.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

But I'm in like, I wear a lot of skirts. I'm very modest when it comes to my day to day and I think it's just because one, I feel like I'm in LA and I can dress like more masculine and not get like dirty looks and so. But I feel like in other parts of the country it's like I just, I just dress more feminine. So I don't like, I don't want to deal with it, you know, Isn't.

[Alex Cooper]

It so annoying when you're like, I don't even want to deal with these comments or these looks so I'm going to just like blend in for you all. I don't want to, but I don't have the time of day.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

So off.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I used to dress crazy though, before like all of this happened and I had energy and like light in my eyes. I would literally just wear my thong out, miniskirt, bottom, ass cheeks out, nipples see through in this trash. I, I dress like really, really bimbo y and like I had, I wore like silicone like breast like boob inserts to make my boobs come up to my, like up to my clavicle or whatever. And so I just like lost my shine. Why? Because it became my job. And then I was like, I'm fucking tired and glam takes. I mean at that time I wasn't like, I was just in my room high as fuck doing my makeup on TikTok live for three hours every night. And then I would go out in like this like insane drag makeup and like all these thrifted like 70s disco, always in fucking heels. Just a maximalist and that was so amazing. And then it just got to be like, there was no separation. Yeah. Like, I would be out as Kaylee in that, and then I would be on stage as that. And then there was, like, no separation. It just got. I would look at myself in the mirror and be like, what's the difference between Chapel and. Like.

[Alex Cooper]

I understand that now because I've interviewed, like, enough people to have that conversation in a healthy way. I think, is you have to find a way to. To actually know who you are when the lights and the cameras and everything go off. Like, who you are. And if you look the same exact. And you act the same exact as you do on stage, then there is no separation, and there's nothing that you can keep private for yourself and protect. So that makes sense as you've tried to kind of, like, give yourself basically your private life.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay. You refer to yourself as a Midwest princess. What is the most Midwestern thing about you?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I say oh, so much. Oh. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, Ope. Ope say that a lot.

[Alex Cooper]

Is that a Midwestern thing?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I think so.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, I'm not from the Midwest.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I'm sorry. Sorry. You know that I still am. Like, I look at the gas prices here, and I'm like, golly, over $4. That's crazy. And I'm like, what the. You've been here for almost 10 years. Like, what are you talking about? It's never been under $4. I am one of the. That are like, well, we got here at the right time. We got at this restaurant right at the right time. Look at the line. I don't even care. Like, as if I've ever given a. But I still say it. I'm like, stop. I get called out for saying roof instead of roof, but I was like, cement is how most people say it, but I was raised cement.

[Alex Cooper]

Like semen, but sea mint.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yeah, cement.

[Alex Cooper]

Ooh.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I say insurance. Like, different. There's so. There's, like, those things, but also it's like. I don't know. I wish it was more acceptable to, like, be barefoot. I wish that, like. Like. I don't know. I guess that's, like, more country. But I'll eat food off the ground and, like, build character. I like. My car is so up.

[Alex Cooper]

What kind of car do you drive?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Well, I. A beater I brought. It's not a beater. That's actually really dramatic. It's my mom's old car, but it's just like, I'm not gonna fix it. Like, I'm just not gonna fix it.

[Alex Cooper]

Wait, you drive your mom's old car?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I've never bought my own car.

[Alex Cooper]

Why not?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I'm, like, kind of embarrassed of cars, like, in general. Like, if someone has a really nice car, I'm like, too much, too much, too much. I don't. And also, I know I'm going to fuck it up.

[Alex Cooper]

But when you were in your maximalist era, would you have gotten yourself a nice car or still? That was like, the one thing you wouldn't do.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

That's. I couldn't afford it. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I couldn't. I've never been a bitch to, like, with a car, you know, I just don't think it means anything. But to me, I guess it does. Because I'm always like, ick.

[Alex Cooper]

I get what you mean. It's like, I just don't.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

If I see a cybertruck, I'm like.

[Alex Cooper]

No, that is so ugly. I can't. When I drive up next to it, I'm like, what in the brick ass is that?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yeah, detent it. Detent. I want to see who's in there, who's driving that?

[Alex Cooper]

It's so fast.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

You know who. The only person I know who had it? Who, Who? Who signed up for it? I'm not even kidding. Because you could sign up for it in like, 20. 19, 2020. My ex boyfriend is the only person I've ever known. And you know what he has? Hentai tattoos. White, white, white boy hentai tattoos of just girls tied up. He has. I actually probably shouldn't say everything, actually. He probably. But that's like the vibe.

[Alex Cooper]

I'm like, okay, you're painting the picture for me.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I'm just like. I don't know anyone who I'd hang out with that has a cyber truck.

[Alex Cooper]

I don't either. So we're in good company tonight. Can you imagine?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

What car do you drive? Do you drive a Tesla?

[Alex Cooper]

Okay, I don't drive a Tesla. You're gonna hate me.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Can I guess?

[Alex Cooper]

Take a guess. What if I said a cyber truck?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I'd be like, what are you doing?

[Alex Cooper]

You walk out of this interview, I would be like, you. No, I do not drive a cybertruck.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I'm gonna guess a G Wagon.

[Alex Cooper]

No, I drive a Porsche.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Okay, that's classy.

[Alex Cooper]

The only reason I drive a Porsche is because I never could afford a car my whole life. And I had to drive my grandmother's car to school, and I was that. That couldn't just own it. And I would, like, park four blocks away. And I was so mortified because I went to this like preppy ass school that I couldn't afford and all the kids were driving nice ass cars, but obviously their parents were paying for it. So like, kind of embarrassing. And I would park away and the door wouldn't open, so I had to get on the other side and climb through the window. It was a whole thing.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

That's awesome.

[Alex Cooper]

It built character, you know? And then when I got to high school, I remember this one girl that I was like, thought she was so cool and she drove a Porsche and it was like the Cayenne or whatever. And so I've only had one car in my life and it's that and Porsche Cayenne. Yeah. Yeah.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

When I was a nanny, the family had the nanny car was a Porsche Cayenne. So I've actually driven that before.

[Alex Cooper]

It's a nice car, but for it to be the nanny car, go yourself.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

That's the vibe. That's the vibes of that.

[Chapel Roan]

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[Alex Cooper]

What are you wearing?

[Chapel Roan]

Give it to me right now. That smells so freaking good. And Matt is obsessed with it. I'm always looking for something has a fresh citrus floral scent, but it needs to still be that perfect balance of not overpowering, but still bold. And this has exactly that. So, Daddy Gang, if you want to try it out, shop now at Sephora.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay. Are you still close with your friends from back home?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yeah, I am. They're really awesome. We have such different lives. They are. A lot of them are married with children and like, they have their own houses. And, like. And to me, I'm. I'm like, I don't know when that's gonna happen for me. Like, I don't know when that is realistic, if ever. So do you want that, like, get married and.

[Chapel Roan]

Yeah.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I don't know. I. Like, part of me is like, is it even gonna be legal to marry, like, my wife one day? You know? I don't know. So. But kids, I. All of my friends who have kids are in hell. I don't know anyone. I actually don't know anyone who's, like, happy and has children at this age. I have, like, like a one year old, like three year old, four and under, five and under. I don't. I literally have not met anyone who's happy. Anyone who has, like, light in their eyes, anyone who has. Who has slept.

[Alex Cooper]

This is not looking too good.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I'm like, why did my parents do that? I'm the oldest of four. My mom had me at 23.

[Alex Cooper]

Wait, when you're saying that about your friends, though, like, do they think this is all wild? That, like, how famous you are and, like, all of it? When they see articles about you, are they, like, calling you up and be like, kaylee, what the fudge? Or are they just like, this is your life, bitch? Like, Texas, when you want to come over?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I think, yeah, like, they. They're just like, they're mothers. Like, they're fucking busy and they have jobs and lives. Like, I am. I am just their friend. You know what I mean? Like, I. They are so sweet and so supportive and come out to shows and, like, they have to get fudgeing babysitters to come to my shows. And, like, I don't ever expect, like, when I go home, I love reminiscing about, like, destroying public property with them and, like, doing some illegal shit and, like, literally hating the same bitches for 15 years. Like, we just can't get over stuff we can't get. I will never get over.

[Alex Cooper]

It's nice, though. It's, like, therapeutic when you have those girls from, like, when you're younger. Because it's like, that is the shit that it genuinely is therapeutic to just be like. And that little fucking cunt from. And you're like, I don't even know where she is these days.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

They're probably a better person now. That's the thing. I still hate those bitches from high school. There was one girl who said, I, like, whatever, beat her in the fucking talent show. Like, whatever, who cares? Like, I won. And she was like, you did so good. Like, I can't wait till your voice fully matures. Like, I can't wait to actually hear it whenever you get, like, some lessons and some maturity in your voice. And I was like, we're the same age. And two, like, I will show you. And I think I did. But also, I'm trying to think. There's so many things, oh, here's one. Like, Hot to Go was. There was a line in Hot to Go. I will never forget this. I was standing in line at lunch, and there were two girls in front of me. Like, a few people up in front of me. And they couldn't. They didn't know I was standing back there, but they were, like, talking about me. And they were like, oh, do you know who's dating Will Say? What's the. What's the wind?

[Alex Cooper]

Western, Mr. John. Okay, Carolyn.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Johnny. Carolyn. Let's say that's the boy's name. Okay, Johnny. Carolyn, do you know who's dating Johnny, Carolyn? They're like, oh, no, no, no. Who? Oh, it's Kaylee Amstutz. Oh, who is she? Oh, you know, she's like, she's not hot, but she's pretty. She's like. She's, like, pretty, but she's not, like, hot. And so when I wrote Hot to Go, that's why I'm like, call me hot, not pretty. Because, like, that was so ingrained in my heart of, like, I want to be the hot girl. I want to be the hot girl. I don't want to be called pretty, you know? But I wasn't. I wasn't hot in high school.

[Alex Cooper]

Like, dude, I. Whoever the fuck was peaked. Okay?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

That's kind of true, right?

[Alex Cooper]

Whoever was so banging hot, they're not. They're not doing too well.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

That's so true. And all the hot guys at my school, I. You know, I don't know. I don't really know any hot guys at my school. I don't think I grew up with hot guys. There was no one that I was really attracted to.

[Alex Cooper]

But that's the shit, though, Chapel. That's like, how crazy. The shit that sticks with you. Like, girls can be so fudgeing, cutting when you're that young. Boys, too, but girls, it's like you almost, like, care more in moments where you're like, I'm pretty. And anyone, if, like, you don't get it, it's like, that is like the big. They're trying to insult you. This isn't like a nice. But you're like. And then you wrote that obviously banger a song, and now you're making money off of it.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

So it's true. It is. Like, the bad things that happen to me, I can monetize. That is what's awesome about being a songwriter. Like, I went. My breakup when I wrote, like, my Kinkus Karma vibes was the worst thing that's ever happened. Like, genuinely, I don't think it could have been worse. But I got to, like, fuel an entire video and a song and a look, a character just based off of Horrible Week of my Life.

[Alex Cooper]

And when you do that, though, when you publish it, do you feel like finally you've expunged your soul of all that negativity, or does it still slightly hang on when you have to perform those songs?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

When I. When. When I do the festivals and I look in the camera and I say, I dedicate this whatever La la. I am actually thinking about them or whoever. I'm dedicating. But I do think about it, and I'm like, at Lollapalooza, I was like, you so hard for talking about you dating me. Like, how could you talk about. Why are you bragging that you dated me? You broke up with me. That's the craziest part.

[Alex Cooper]

But it's so telling. It's so embarrassing. It's like, you want clout. How lame is your life? You want clout. You have to sleep so well at night knowing that, though, of, like, ooh, and I still get to monetize off this loser. Loser. Bye. How do you decide when you have people call you Chapel Verse Kaylee?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

When I'm at work, Chapel. But, like, none of my friends, like, call me Chapel.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay. Who was your pop icon growing up?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Hannah Montana and Britney.

[Alex Cooper]

You can't say Hannah Montana to me.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

And me, not Hannah Montana.

[Alex Cooper]

Need a minute?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I remember when the first episode came out.

[Alex Cooper]

The wig in the first episode. Then when they changed it so good, it still looked like. I look back on that, and I'm like, they really didn't know if that was gonna pop off. And then it was, like, the biggest thing ever. But that first wig is so telling. They're like, let's just see if this works. And then, boom.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Did you go to the concert?

[Alex Cooper]

I went to the one where it was Miley and Hannah. So she starts as Hannah and then she transitions to Miley.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Is that the Jonas Brothers opened?

[Alex Cooper]

I remember City. I remember that was the point when the Jonas Brothers weren't that big of a deal. And I was so annoyed that they were on stage. And my dad was like, one Day you're gonna have a crush on one of these boys. And I was like, I reject that. I'm disturbed by these men. And then I obviously, like, fell in love with them like a couple of years later.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Nick or Joe or sorry, Kevin.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, I'm sorry. No, no, no.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Nick, Joe or Kevin.

[Alex Cooper]

I would say at first. Nick. I did the whole thing. Cried. Diabetes, obviously.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Okay.

[Alex Cooper]

Did you cry too?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

No. I always hated the Jonas Brothers. But here's the thing. Joe's so nice to me now. I've grown up to love them. Like, I. When I was young, I was like you. I was like, I don't care about the boys. I just want Hannah.

[Alex Cooper]

Hannah.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

And when they came out, I was like, God, like, shut. I was in. I was nine. And I literally said. When they came out, I was like, oh, my God, I don't care. I believed in God at that time. And I was saying that in my head.

[Alex Cooper]

I couldn't get on board. And then, yes, Hannah, at that point, like, do you remember, like, East Northumberland High, Good and broken. You and me together. I made music videos to that shit. I was religious.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

And all this to say, like, I love the Joseph. Like, when I was nine, I was. I think it was just the lesbian in me that just had no interest in seeing them as an idol as a child. But now I'm like, work.

[Alex Cooper]

Yes. Okay. I'm going to ask you. Give me the first song that comes to mind when I tell you this. Ready? Favorite song to belt out in the shower.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

This is the part when I break free.

[Alex Cooper]

Go to song when you need a good cry.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Along. It was a fever, Cold sweat, Hot headed Believer, Stay by Rihanna, which I audition to with the. Yeah, I auditioned with it for the Voice. I didn't make it on the show, obviously. Thank God. Thank God. I didn't. I didn't make it.

[Alex Cooper]

Maybe it is so much better because imagine if you were like. Not that it's bad to come from the Voice, but the story is better without the Voice. Right? Your come up is just a little bit better. Yeah. Okay, that's this. The song that belongs on every workout playlist.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

My favorite song of all time. When you see me in the club, you better think about or you better.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, yeah, yeah, you better make that work.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

It's the. It's a will I'm gonna scream and shout with Britney Spears.

[Alex Cooper]

Your crowd pleaser karaoke song.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I hate karaoke.

[Alex Cooper]

Moving on.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I. Because I don't want to try. Yeah, I don't. I don't like feeling like I Have to try to sing well if I'm not doing it for work, because then it feels like a. Like, look at me. I love. Karaoke is for people who never get to sing.

[Alex Cooper]

Yes. And then we sing your songs, and I'm like.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Like, I hate singing it. But I did. I don't know. One time, I pretended I put in, like, I was at a seafood boil in the middle of Apalachicola, Florida. We were an off day on. On tour, and we went to this seafood place, and there was just a dad playing guitar. And it was like, does anybody out there want to sing a. Does anybody want to sing a duet with me? And my whole touring crew was like, go, go, go. And I was like, oh, please stop. Please stop. And then I was like, fine. I will. And he was like, come on up. What's your name? And I think I was like, madeline. And he's like, madeline, what do you want to sing? Hear my list. And I look down, and I see shallow. And I was like, shallow. And he was like, really? You want to do shallow? And I was like, mm. And like, really? I did it. And I went. I'm on the deep end, like, up there. All. It was all old people and families. It was literally, like, old people. And then, like, moms with four kids who were, like, tired, and, like, people, like, turned around because I was ripping it. And afterwards, like, I just sat down. Literally, old people just started standing up, and they were like, you have to try out for American Idol. You have to try out. And I was like, oh, my God, stop. I'm not that good. And then I went to Orlando and opened for Olivia Rodrigo the next day.

[Alex Cooper]

Dude, that man just being, like, really want to do this?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Are you sure, honey?

[Alex Cooper]

You're like, no, but let's.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I was like, I don't know. I'm up here, right?

[Alex Cooper]

Hurry up before I fucking leave, Dick. That's hilarious, though. Like, do you ever get moments like that of anonymity, where you get to, like, feel like people actually don't know who you are anymore? Do you ever, like, dress up, disguise?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I think people are scared of me.

[Alex Cooper]

Really?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I think I made a big enough deal about not talking to me that people do not talk to me. That's, I think, the truth of it all. And I've been. I've been with people, like, friends who are, like, artists, and they're like. When they're with me, they're like, it's a force field around us. People don't come up to me if I'm with You. And I think I'm just like, damn. Say, baby. You say it too. You say, don't touch me. Don't touch me. Don't look at me. Don't. Don't talk to me. I don't know who you are. And they won't come up to bother you.

[Alex Cooper]

What a concept. That is hilarious, though, that other celebrities are like, look at what you're doing.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

It's a force field. I'm not. Not just by one person. By like, three. Three or four.

[Alex Cooper]

Do you love it that you said.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Hurts? That I have to. Yeah, it hurts. I. I know it really hurts people because they take it. Really. They feel like it's me disrespecting them, that I owe it to them and that. How dare I call abuse. And it's like. Or complaining about success. I get that a lot. But I'm not complaining about success. I'm just complaining about creepy behavior. I love. I love, like, admiration. Everyone loves admiration. Like, I just don't want you to, like, interrupt me at, like, when I'm having a fight with a girl. My girlfriend. Like, don't fucking be like, can I get a photo when I'm crying, Crying, talking to my girlfriend. That's fucking crazy.

[Alex Cooper]

You're like, I'm actually in the middle of breaking up with someone or being cheated on right now. Spare me. Yeah, take a picture all the way across there of the back of my.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Head and post it, you know? And it's like, I can't. I. Of course. Of course it's going to take a second to. For people to, like, really look at themselves. And, like, I have to have grace for that. Like, I didn't. How would I know any better if I already see Hannah Montana? I would have to tell her that I. I love her music so much and that, like, she means a lot to me. Reality. It's like, no, I don't.

[Alex Cooper]

Right.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Because that's not Hannah right there. That's not Hannah. That's destiny. Oh, Cyrus. Anyway, sorry.

[Alex Cooper]

I love you. Okay. You wrote your song Pink Pony Club about the Abbey here in Los Angeles. True or not true? Yes, true. Why are you looking away from me?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Have you had your phone stolen there? Have I my phone stolen at the Abbey?

[Alex Cooper]

I've never gone to the Abbey, because apparently.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Well, because you get yourself. Yeah. You get a. Your phone stolen.

[Alex Cooper]

Wait, what?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

It's crazy. I have had three friends whose phone got stolen.

[Alex Cooper]

Wait, okay, so tell me about, like, this, the night or the store? Is that the story? Like, what is it? But tell me about I've never gone to the Abbey because everyone's like, it's not even good anymore. It used to be good. Now it's not good anymore.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Okay, well, obviously when I went, the night was awesome because I was like, it's like, it was amazing and I just couldn't stop dancing. And I was obsessed with the go go dancers and the music was so loud and everyone was so hot and making out and I had never seen anything like it. And I wanted to be a. An, like a go go dancer, exotic dancer after that. And so I was like, looking into it and I just was like, I felt like, really embarrassed. If someone from, like a record label were to see me dancing, I would just feel really embarrassed because, I don't know, like, I just felt really self conscious. And so instead I wrote a song about me being the dancer. So that's what Pink Pony is about. It's like me being the dancer at the Abbey. And like, I'm scared to go to the Abbey now because my phone is gonna get stolen.

[Alex Cooper]

And your phone cannot get stolen. I mean, would you care?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

No.

[Alex Cooper]

No. Yes, you would.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

No, I don't care.

[Alex Cooper]

Real. There's nothing on your phone.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

They can't get into it.

[Alex Cooper]

It's like you're the one that has like the 17 number password, not the 4. Okay. How do you feel about a dance floor makeout?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I look the other way.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay. Before you were famous, would you be down or.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

No, I get really uncomfortable. But I am the that makes it on the dance floor. I just like, I'm like a hypocrite when it comes to pda. I'm like, what the. And then I will, like, be drunk making out. I've done it with so many different people.

[Alex Cooper]

It's fun, though.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

It's so fun. If I'm up, like, I don't care, but if I don't really drink anymore. So when I see people making out, like, I just laugh. I can't stop laughing.

[Alex Cooper]

The only way I feel like for a dance floor makeout is to be drunk or on drugs.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

In WeHo. It's like it. It's like at brunch, you know, it's not even like there's not even a dance floor.

[Alex Cooper]

You've gone so many different places. What has been your most, like, chaotic night out on tour or even just like on the road?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Probably the night.

[Alex Cooper]

Tell me, please.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

One night. One night, I thought my bus driver, the tour bus driver was going to leave without us, was going to just drive away. And I called, like, my tour Manager. And I was like, hey, something's going on. Like, the bus driver is, like, being kind of weird, and, like, I think he's really mad. He's, like, just stomping around. And, like, I thought he was leaving. I. Like, he looked like he was driving away, but then he backed up. I think he's really pissed off at us, and I think we should get on the bus. She thought I was kidding, and so she was like, oh, yeah, he's going crazy. I heard he. I heard he hit someone. And then that, you know, we don't worry about it. Like, the cops are on the way. And I was like, holy. And then I got up, I got on the bus. Bus driver was nowhere to be found, and I was like, everybody on the bus. Get your cat, get your passports, and let's get off. Come on. It's literally like, the Sound Team. Like, I'm about to start crying. Everyone's drunk. Like, it's so bad. It's like, after a show, it's the night before we go to Coachella, and I'm like, the cops are coming. Everyone get it. Get out. Get out. The cops are coming. Get your passports. Get something that's important to you, and get off the bus. I didn't know my tour manager was kidding. And so then I. Like, I was so fucked up, and I was just crying. I was like, something's really wrong. Like, the bus drivers being really weird, and we're not gonna be able to make it to Coachella. And my tour manager was like, I was kidding, and I was like, then what's going on? Like, then what's even going. Like, but the bus driver is being weird. What do we do? And she's like, I literally don't. Like, no one knew what to do. And I was like, I'm just confused. We have to make the Coachella. We have to.

[Alex Cooper]

This poor man, like, walks out of peeing, and he's like, why is everyone acting weird?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

That is what happened.

[Alex Cooper]

He's, like, holding your cats in your passports, and you're like, he's gonna attack us.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Oh, that's literally what happened. He's like, I'm not gonna attack you. Nothing's wrong, guys. And like, oh, I was just so drunk. I was like, he's on a rampage. Everyone get off the bus.

[Alex Cooper]

Really sorry, sir. We love you.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Drive, dude.

[Alex Cooper]

Dude, Alcohol can do some weird.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I don't drink anymore.

[Alex Cooper]

I shouldn't.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I. The only time I drink. Actually, the only time I drink is my birthday, and I had my birthday.

[Alex Cooper]

Wait, how did you celebrate?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I went to Jumbo's Clown Room.

[Chapel Roan]

How was that?

[Alex Cooper]

No. Oh, tell me everything.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

It's a strip club, but it's not like a. It's very gay. It's like, a lot of lesbian vibes.

[Alex Cooper]

Are you a lap dance girl? Like, what are you? What's your vibe?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

They gave me a lap dance, and it was fun. Usually those things really make me uncomfortable, but I was drunk, so I didn't care. And, yeah, I rented the whole place out. It was a dream birthday. It was a dream come true. And those girls fucking know how to work a pole. They. The pole does not spin. Like, it's not. They do it like it's real.

[Alex Cooper]

I remember, like, the last time I was at a strip club. I remember just, like, staring at them in awe, and I was like, I hope they don't think this is creepy. But, like, I'm genuinely just so fascinated by how you're doing that because, like, my neck hurts and my back hurts watching you do that. You're incredible.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

They're iconic athletes.

[Alex Cooper]

Cheers to the girls. How has your relationship to your sexuality evolved over the years?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Obviously, I've come into being more comfortable with saying I'm queer with dating women, but, I don't know, something, like, up my sexuality, this. I think, like, my nervous system is so fried that I can't even feel, like, flirtatious. Like, it's just too intense to even, like, be sexual at all. I'm just. Just too, like, too sensitive, you know?

[Alex Cooper]

Do you want to be, or you're not feeling like you're missing anything?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

No, I do. I want to, because I think that, like, that was a part of myself that was fun and, like, I feel like that part of me exists on stage, but off stage, it's like, it's this kind of. I kind of reverted back to a very shameful part of myself and how I relate to sex just because it's like, when there's so much of you in the world that is exposed, then, like, being sexual with someone is so vulnerable because the rest of your life is so vulnerable that it's like, it almost is, too. I want to save something. Like, I just don't want to be that vulnerable with so many people.

[Alex Cooper]

Do you ever, though, like, resent the chapel roan moments? Because then you're, like. You're saying you're feeling it on stage, you're, like, enjoying yourself, you're feeling sexual, then you're going home as Kaylee and being like, I just don't want to enjoy that. Like, are you ever, like, fuck, Am I sacrificing my real moments of being able to find myself and embrace my sexuality for people and my art?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I resent myself for. I resent the job because I can no longer. Yes, sexuality has, like, is. It's just different now. And, like. But I resent not being able to, like, be a friendly neighbor because I can't, like, go out and meet my neighbors and be like, hi, I'm Kaylee. I live here. This is what my car looks like. This is what time I'm home and when I'm not, you know? So then people all of a sudden know. Exactly. It's just a recipe for a stalker situation. So I resent that part of my career path. There's just so much you don't know that you're signing up for. You don't know that you're signing up, that you're Your whole. Your body changes. It is like, going through puberty, and that's what I was told. I didn't. I didn't really know if that was true, but the pop girls were like, it feels like a second puberty.

[Alex Cooper]

I do think, like, I. What I appreciate about you saying that, though, is, like, I feel like it's important to recognize that your passion for art, the goal is for people to enjoy it because you love it. You want people to. You want people to connect to it. You want people to experience it. But that obviously comes then with the fame aspect. And then fame is the thing that I think people get so frustrated by you saying that. But it's like, no, no, no. Like, you're. You love your art. That's not what you're saying. You don't love. You're saying you don't love the thing that comes with that. And I think, yeah, but the beautiful thing is the art. Like, what do you think Chapel Roan would meet mean to young Kaylee?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I don't even know if my younger self would be able to register that is a part of me. Like, that's how removed.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah, I, I.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I was so, so, so, like, opposite of me now. Like, it just. It just wasn't awoken. It awakened in me, you know? Like, young Kaylee just felt so restricted because I was so. I was a very. I was a problem child and so angry and so, like, depressed and just felt like no one understood me. And now that part of me is so alive. And I always did want to, like, dress up and be super girly or be really, like, tomboy or. I just wanted to be free But I didn't ever think that it would actually happen. And now that it has, it's like, I don't think she would believe it at all. I don't think she could ever believe that. Like, this is what I do.

[Alex Cooper]

But doesn't that make you now happy?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yeah, it's awesome. It's like, that part is awesome. That I really honored my inner child to the max. I think now what it is, is, like, how do I honor my adult self? Yeah, the max. It's like, I don't know, because this is all new and. No, but there's no rule. But there's like, every artist, every pop girl, the next move is like a question mark.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Because some. Some girls put out the first song, had an incredible first album, won a bunch of shit, then take five years off. Some girls go right into it, and then they end up releasing something they hate, and then they release another album that they love. Like, they never stop. Some just tour for. There is no game plan of, like, how do I make sure I make the right decision?

[Alex Cooper]

That's so fucking relatable. And obviously the things you're dealing with, there are elements that certain people will never understand, Just like we may never understand certain parts of each other. Just like people watching this are like, you guys would never understand what I'm going through. But I do think it's relatable to say, and I don't think that you should be criticized for acknowledging that there is an element to your life that is very confusing right now. And it is okay to be so grateful and also be so confused and angry in moments, because that's life. And I think that when someone's sitting in this chair, like Chapel Roan, you're supposed to, in people's mind, have the answers. Be grateful. Smile tells us that the coolest thing that's ever happened because all of us want to be famous. But then it's like, at what point are we going to start to realize that so many people that do end up in the spotlight are yelling like, this is not all that. It's cracked up to me. This is hard. We're not asking for you to, like, feel so bad for us, but a little bit of empathy goes a long way with human beings. I think that's chill to say. Yeah, I don't think. And. And who gives a If at one point they don't understand it? Like, I really like that you are being honest about it rather than smiling and be like, I love my job, Alex. Everything's good. Like, yeah, you're not robotic.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I think it's also, people expect me to play by different roles because I'm gay, and I should be more politically correct about that, and I should actually be way more knowledgeable about it. And so I get asked a lot of fucking crazy questions that a lot of my peers would not get asked, and that's because I'm gay, and that's because, like, I have, like, my opinions, but that doesn't mean I'm, like, completely. Like, I don't know everything about every topic I have opinions on. Like, I don't know everything about, like, being gay. Like, I don't know everything about being a woman. I don't know everything about fucking, fashion or drag or. Or performing. Like, I try to know everything I can and. But, like, when I don't answer a question correctly or, like, I don't acknowledge one community, it's like, how can I do it all? Like, you can't can these girls. How can these girls tour, write, perform, interview, sleep, eat and eat and fucking work out? And, like, how. How can they do it all and lead a team and be a boss and pay people and like. And be, like, fucking so politically educated. It's.

[Alex Cooper]

It's exhausting.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

And it's also impossible. Also, why the fuck are you looking to me for some political answer? You think I have the fucking answer.

[Alex Cooper]

But you're like, listen to my song, bitch. Turn it up.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Like, I'm a pop star. I wish I had the answers. I wish the president was a pop star, but she's not.

[Alex Cooper]

I feel like something that you just said that is very apparent, and I was excited today too, was like, this, what you're saying we could do 19 hours on, because it's like the double standard of, one, you being a woman, two, being a gay woman. There's so much that comes with it. It. And it's like everyone in interviews, like you said, like, there's people asking you questions that you're like, I don't know. And that's why I'm excited that, like, I feel like we. It's been. I'm excited that we're gonna have fun today, and we're having fun and talking about more light topics because it's clear that, like, you're funny. You're funny. Thanks. You're. You're a good time. I want to play a little game.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Okay.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay. This is kind of inspired by your song Casual. Love the song. I'm gonna give you a situationship scen, and you're gonna tell me if it's still casual or not. Are you ready?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay. They meet your entire friend group.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Apparently, it's. It's casual. Apparently it is. Apparently it's casual if you meet your parents. Apparently.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay. But you don't want it to be. Wait, the parents is crazy.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Apparently. Apparently it's casual if you sexed for three months.

[Alex Cooper]

That's fucking crazy. We. Have you ever brought a new hookup around your friends and they're like, absolutely not. We do not with this person.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yeah. And then I've dated them for four more years.

[Alex Cooper]

You're like, love you besties, but you're.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Not like, yeah, that's how it goes.

[Alex Cooper]

And then when you were just being stupid, that's like.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

That is just actually like, listen to your friends. Listen to your friends. If your friends are telling you this guy is, like, weird or this girl is weird, like, something is, like, off, but you don't. You can't tell, really. No one's. It's like, it's not bad enough for anyone to tell you anything. Just listen to them. If the vibe is off, it's. Something is wrong. Stop seeing them.

[Alex Cooper]

I know. Because your friends, like, don't care. Your friends usually aren't trying to you. Well, sometimes. Let's. We're moving on. Okay. Casual or not, they make solo plans with you to celebrate their birthday.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

That's a date. I mean, I guess it could be casual.

[Alex Cooper]

No, I think.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

No, that's not.

[Alex Cooper]

The birthday's crazy.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

That's not casual.

[Alex Cooper]

Thank you. The birthday's crazy. What is a safe gift to get a situationship?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Just buy their dinner. Don't. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not a gift. Don't make them anything. That's for sure. Don't fucking make a casual person anything.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah, that's fair. I think you can get them, like, a bottle of alcohol.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yeah, a bottle of alcohol is nice. Probably like, not a car. Maybe a card that.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, they thought you're gonna say a car. I'm like, chapo.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I'm not the girl that. I'm not her. A safe gift. I mean. Oh, I don't even want to think about it. Just buy a meal. Just pay a ticket. Be like, hey, can I take you out for a movie? Do an experience so you don't have to. Like. No one hates a stuffed animal more than me.

[Alex Cooper]

Have you been given many stuffed animals?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

So dumb.

[Alex Cooper]

So bad. That's so bad. Did you keep them?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I think I've burned. Oh, I burned a pile. There was something going on when I was 17.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay. They start calling you pet names before you're official.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

That's like flirty. Oh. Pet names like Boo Boo.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Or like, what. What is the pet name that you.

[Alex Cooper]

I don't know. What's a pet name that you've been called? What's the cringiest pet name that you have ever had called to you or you called someone? Don't lie to me.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I don't know what was wrong with me. It's just gonna give away who it is. I can't do it.

[Alex Cooper]

It will.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yeah, no, it's fine.

[Alex Cooper]

It's fine.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

What do you. I mean, I don't know. What is the. I'm maybe.

[Alex Cooper]

Obviously they're like babe and baby. But then there's like the weird ones where.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Cuddle. Cuddlekins. That type thing. Or like, stuff in movies.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was good. Kettlekins. I've never heard that. Okay. What is the most extravagant thing you've ever bought?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Probably, like, venmoing. My brother 500.

[Alex Cooper]

I love that. We're playing a romantic game and you're like. You're like. My brother thought it was in general. That's very romantic.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I said the most. That's actually so crazy.

[Alex Cooper]

He said the most romantic thing you've ever done.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

My brother.

[Alex Cooper]

My brother Venmo. Duh. 500 bucks.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I mean, maybe a most extravagant gift is like, writing music for them. I wrote an. Yeah, I wrote an entire EP for. For someone. It never came out.

[Alex Cooper]

What?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Mm. Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

Did they hear it?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yeah, they loved it. Actually, they didn't love it as much as I thought they would, but, like, I worked really hard on it and whatever.

[Alex Cooper]

Wait, Chapel. Can you walk me through that moment where you're like, I'm gonna show you. How did you tell the person that you had this for them? And what was the.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I gave it on a C. I burned it on a cd and I gave them my old CD player and my headphones and I said, you should listen to this. I made it for you. And then there was like an entire five track episode.

[Alex Cooper]

Were you in the room when they listened or. No, I don't.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I don't remember. But I did, like, write, handwrite all the lyrics, and, like, it was, like, honestly awesome. And I think I've never given a gift like that again because I was so burned by, like, the relationship. I'm like, fuck that. I'll never do that again.

[Alex Cooper]

Bye. How long after did you break up?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Like, two and a half years later or something like that. Yeah, it was crazy.

[Alex Cooper]

You would never release one of those songs.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

They're not good enough.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay. Okay. You sleep at each other's houses multiple times a week.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Apparently. I can't stop saying apparently because I've been in all these fucking situations and, like, I don't think so. I think that's like. That's. I mean, I guess it's kind of casual now. Like three plus times. It's not casual.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Three plus two times is, like, fine. What the fuck ever. Like, like a. Like a Friday and like a booty call on like a Tuesday. Fine.

[Alex Cooper]

Do you feel like you're usually in the position where the person you're seeing is in the power position, or are you in the. I'm getting a little bit of a vibe here, chapel, that maybe you're not.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Not in power?

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yes. Because I've been in the past desperate for companionship, so I will go along with what they want.

[Alex Cooper]

Relatable.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

And will give up, like, basically my values. And. Yeah, I would just give away my. I throw away my personality because I don't want to be lonely. And then I get mad at them for, like, being like, this is casual, whatever, you know? And I'm like. But I threw away my entire personality for this. Like, like, I gave up my weekends for this. Like, I. You know what I mean? And that's why I'm, like, bitter about it. But honestly. Yeah, it's like. Next question.

[Alex Cooper]

I just want you to know that that clip is going to replay in people's mind because that is the most relatable thing anyone has ever said sitting in that chair. Because I have done the same thing.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

And it's never worth it.

[Alex Cooper]

Never.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

And the thing is, like, all the people that I threw my entire life away. My self respect. Like, I disregarded all my friends. I disregarded all, like, my gut feelings. I disregarded. You know what? It never fucking works out. Ever. It never works out. Anyone. You have to throw anyway anything away for it never works out. Or you get married and then you get divorced and you think that it'll get better when you get married, but it never does. It only gets worse.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah. Rewind to your friends having fudgeing kids. You said they're in hell, but they're.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

In hell because they love their kids.

[Alex Cooper]

Have your friends ever successfully set you up with someone?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

No. I'm hard. I'm hard. Wait. Yes. Oh, my God. Yeah. I dated someone for a year because my friend set me up.

[Alex Cooper]

Bad or good decision.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I mean, the whole thing was casual, but we dated for a year. That's why I'M saying on this stupid shit.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah, but this is life. Are you kidding me? I've been dragged through the mud by a man, and I'm just like, But.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I still love you.

[Alex Cooper]

And it's, like, dumb. He is literally giving you every sign and more, and you're still like, I'm just reading into it wrong. He. He didn't mean that. Yeah, he did.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

So you're like, I see the best in them. It's like, no, you just.

[Alex Cooper]

Stop, stop, stop. You're disgusting. I look back at my younger self. I'm like, you need to be done. Go celibate.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

You didn't know.

[Alex Cooper]

I know. It's so sad. Wait, are you a good wing woman?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Like, in the sense of helping your.

[Alex Cooper]

Friends, like, find people?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

No.

[Alex Cooper]

No.

[Chapel Roan]

Okay.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I don't want to try. I don't try. I'm not. I don't want to ever set anyone up. I think people should be single.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay. I'm assuming you're single right now. Imagine you're like, I'm actually so in love. Imagine you look at me and you go, two years in, babe.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Never been better.

[Alex Cooper]

Wait, are you single?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

No.

[Alex Cooper]

You're lying. Wait, are you single?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

No.

[Alex Cooper]

You're lying. No. You're lying. You're lying to me right now. Chapel. How long?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Six months.

[Alex Cooper]

Is it casual?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

No.

[Alex Cooper]

Serious?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

It's serious. It's serious.

[Alex Cooper]

How does that make sense?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I'm very in love, but I am pro single. Everyone should be single. I'm serious. Be single. Stop dating. Be single. Have a great time alone. Find out for yourself if you can 100 be okay alone before you date. That's what I found out. I had a great time when I was single, and I know that I will be okay. And now I have an awesome time that I'm with someone.

[Alex Cooper]

Like, how'd you meet? I'm like, rewind. You can't just drop that and be like. But anyways, be single. And any Next question.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I love being single. But you're not awesome. But I. Even if I was, I'd be okay.

[Alex Cooper]

Being single is the most incredible time in your life to actually be so selfish so that the next time you get into a relationship, you know, you're like, I'm never gonna put up with this anymore. Because guess what? Doing this by myself is better. So unless you're making my life better right off. Okay, come on.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

What's the question? How did you meet their friend? But it wasn't a setup.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay? Just like.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yeah, I just, like, at a.

[Alex Cooper]

Who made the first move?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Me. I'm usually the one to make. I, like, in every circumstance, I make the first move.

[Alex Cooper]

Can you explain to me how you start the dating process with someone? Like, are they. Are you having to have them come over to your house? Are you going out in public?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I haven't dated someone since, like, this all, like, really, really blew up.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Like, before I became. I'm. I'm dating the same person that I was dating before. I got, like, it blew up. So I'm not sure how I would do it now. I think it would actually be a nightmare. I think I would be, like, so single right now.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah, because you're terrified of your intentions.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Scared. I'm scared. I don't trust. I don't trust anyone. I just think in my head, I'm, like, any new person that I am texting, I'm like. I'm assuming they will screenshot this and, like, send it to someone else. That's, like, why I can't.

[Alex Cooper]

You're like, I guess we're getting married.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

No.

[Alex Cooper]

Lucky for you.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

How would you describe your type?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I really don't have one. I know everyone said that, but, like, I don't know. I love. I just love. As far as, like, looks and stuff. I don't, like, really have a type, but I love art girls. Like, weird art girls. Girls who love to read and love to, like, who are of, like, very niche. Like, I probably like a girl that collects things and, like, is okay with an exotic pet. Owned a hamster one time and would own one again, or, like, doesn't give a about their car, will pick up a worm, is not scared of, like, bugs and snakes, can get down. Watching a foreign film would be okay. Like, having zero plan. So, like, have you ever taken the Enneagram test?

[Alex Cooper]

I have, and I cannot tell you what my fucking number is because I did it so long ago. I think I'm an eight. Are you gonna walk out on me?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I'm an eight.

[Alex Cooper]

No.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

That's rare.

[Alex Cooper]

I remember taking everyone thought I was gonna be a two. What the is it?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

And you're an eight.

[Alex Cooper]

I'm an eight.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

That's iconic.

[Alex Cooper]

Do you like me more now?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I. I am.

[Alex Cooper]

You're gonna say you love me? Yeah. We're both eights.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

What is, like, a 7? A 7 is someone who's like, the enthusiast. Like, someone who's just like, whoa, party. I just want to have a good time.

[Alex Cooper]

Maybe that's what I am, the enthusiast. What's it. What's Nate called?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

The Challenger.

[Alex Cooper]

I'm the Challenger.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

That's me, dude.

[Alex Cooper]

That's me. What the.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

That's cool. That's why I'm, like, pointing at people on the red carpet. I'm like, the challenger.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay, good to know. What is the boldest thing you've ever done to shoot your shot with someone?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Send a nude, I guess. I don't know. Just, like, we'll be talking, like, regular, and I'll be like, that was one time. Another time. Oh, this was so. This was so stupid. I do not think. I'm, like, actually not proud of this. Ex boyfriend's at the club. I'm at the club, I see him hitting on this girl, and I'm like, why the fuck is he doing this in front of me? This is evil. Like, we're both single at this point, so whatever. He goes to the bathroom. I go up to this girl. I'm like, I think you're so pretty. And then I steal her. And then at the end of the night, we were just making out, and he just. Just standing there. That's weaponizing gay. Actually.

[Alex Cooper]

Chapel, that is Eve.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

That's called being evil. And it's like, I was so fucked up. I was on multiple drugs. So was that girl. He. I don't even know what he's on, like. And that girl, like, her name was something crazy. It was, like, princely or something like, crazy. Did you.

[Alex Cooper]

Did you. Were you even into her? Or were you.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

No, she was so pretty. And then. Yeah, and then I threw up outside. And I was like, actually, this is so dumb. Like, what am I doing?

[Alex Cooper]

Did you wake up the next morning with the scaries or were you, like, victory?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I was just like, yeah, shame on you. You weaponized gay. I will never do that again.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay. But it made for a good story on Call Her Daddy. Do you have any immediate deal breakers?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Car.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah, you really. This car is not.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Something happened to me. I don't give what the. Something happened to me.

[Alex Cooper]

Jesus.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Bad breathing with their mouth open is great. Gray people who are. Who, like, don't tip. Oh, my God, that freaks me out. Or treat. If they treat their waiter bad, I will never talk to them the same.

[Alex Cooper]

I feel like people always. Whenever people are like, oh, that's a. Like, obvious. But I'm like, no, but I feel like when it's rare, but when it happens, it is, like, so crazy. And you sit there and you're, like, clenching your body, like, you hear about this in the movies, and it's happening in front of my eyes. Get the out of here, you freak.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I don't like, that I don't like when they talk about their exes badly or they're the women in their family badly. I don't date men anymore, but that was, like, a common thing.

[Alex Cooper]

Isn't that crazy?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

It was like, talking about their mom, about their sister. Yeah, dude. It's like, I'm sensitive to smells, so. But I'm thinking about immediate deal breakers. I don't know, dude. Like, I think their music taste says a lot.

[Alex Cooper]

What would turn you off?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Like, if someone doesn't like Beyonce, I'm like, that says a lot more than what I need. You know what I mean?

[Alex Cooper]

Is there anything that they could be into that you're like, no. You're like. You can't say it.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I can't say that.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay, let's talk about your new song, the Giver. What is the story behind it?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Well, I was just. God, I'm so annoyed with literally just the boys when I grew up, where I grew up, like, just, like, literally talking about having sex with these girls and how, like, the girls loved it so much. And, like, I think about me and how performative I was and, like, how actually, like, when I started having sex with women, I didn't really even know what to do because I was so used to performing, like, everything just, like, so performative. And. And I think about hooking up with women compared to men and, like, how much women give to their partner instead of, like, with men. I just. Obviously, I was dating some not awesome people, but what the common denominator was, like, they could not get it through their head, like, what they're doing, like, wasn't right. And even if I was being like, I don't think that feels good, they were still doing it. But at that point, it's on me. It's like, bitch, just break up. What is wrong with you? But the fact that I have dated so many guys who do it wrong and don't really. They haven't figured out that they need to do better, that they need to give more. The giver. What I'm saying in the song is these country boys are not going to give you what you need if you want to have an orgasm, which a lot of ladies don't, apparently.

[Alex Cooper]

No, no, I didn't.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I didn't care about it my whole life, obviously, until I met women. And so it was like such a. Like, holy fuck. I'm gonna write the giffer about showing that actually sex should be a giving experience. And it's. Of course we love the kinky girls. Of course we love The Doms, we love the. The subs, like, love, but there's still a given. There's still a giving, whatever. So I wrote the Giver about that. Just about, like, I think specifically in femme relationships, it's such an understanding that it is so a giving give. You know, it's mutual. It's. Yeah, it. And I just feel like when I was with Min, it wasn't mutual. I'm like, how. How did you date me for four years and you weren't concerned that I didn't orgasm? Not once again, it's on me. Like, boo boo. You decided to stay in that relationship. But it's like, I. If I could not get my girlfriend there, I would do everything. I would do anything, however long. I don't care. I would do anything. Why did they not do anything? Why didn't they want to do anything? Why didn't they want to do everything for me?

[Alex Cooper]

We just start crying.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I do everything for my girlfriend, you know?

[Alex Cooper]

No, it's so sad. I was in the same position. I stayed in a relationship. And I literally would just lay there and be like, I think he actually thinks he's hitting the. And like, he's at, like, the bottom of my labia. Like.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

But do you tell him to go up?

[Chapel Roan]

I.

[Alex Cooper]

In moments would. But I would find, like, it's hard because then they shut down and then they're like. And then it's like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. Like, your little ego, you piece of. But no, then. Then you're just like, j. And then you're like, I literally go in the shower and just fucking masturbate. Like, God bless me in America. Yeah. But then eventually I started to get vocal towards the end of, like, if you can't fucking find it in 30 minutes, this is. I gotta go. Yeah, then it is kind of on you.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

When I started hooking up with women, I realized how easy it is, actually.

[Alex Cooper]

Thank you.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I realized how easy it is to eat a girl out and how this whole time I thought it was. Your neck hurts so bad. It's, like, hard. My jaw hurts. You know what's hard? Sucking dick, Eating a girl out. You can lay down. It's. It's actually, I was fooled. I was foolish to think that of course, it wasn't as hard as what I was doing for them. Of course it wasn't. That's why I would never do anal. Because I was like, then let me peg you. They would be like, oh, no way. Why not? We just try. Let me peg you. And then we can. Maybe we'll try, right?

[Alex Cooper]

Like, let's. Uno, reverse. We both. If you want to do it, I want to do it. And then they're like, no, babe, babe.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

That's one thing that we both have. We both have that type. We both have that whole, figure it out. But when I started hooking up with women, I was like, fuck you guys. This is one enjoyable.

[Alex Cooper]

First of all, finally.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Second of all, way, way easier. It's actually fucking crazy. It's actually fudgeing crazy. So what, you can't find the clip? Work harder. It may take 10 minutes longer. That's fine. I was always confused why my boyfriends didn't want to go down. Like.

[Alex Cooper]

Because they're so fudgeing. Selfish.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Is that what it is? Or do you think that. Do you think that men don't actually like vulvas?

[Alex Cooper]

I think they do.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

You think they do like that?

[Alex Cooper]

I think they do. I think they're terrified of their masculinity being threatened if they don't really know what to do because they're so dumb. So then they just are like, I guess it's different with certain men.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Have you hooked up with a woman?

[Alex Cooper]

No. Should I? Yeah. First of all, yes, Matt.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

But, like, sorry to cut you off.

[Alex Cooper]

No, you're. I'm. I'm just saying I think that there's a different level of men depending on how toxic masculinity they're working with. Because I think some men are just like. Like, I'm not doing that. Then other men are like, I really want to try. But then they need to be taught. But their ego has to be intact for them to be taught. And then it. They can be taught. Trust me. They can be taught.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Sucking dick, you only do one thing. Sometimes you can get crazy, but really, it's only one. One type of motion. Vulvas are so different and so intricate that it's hard. It's harder. It's harder to find a clitoris and do exactly what a someone with a clitoris likes than sucking a dick.

[Alex Cooper]

That's completely fair. Because it's like, you have to also stay at the certain pace if they're going to. Like, it's a.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Some. Yeah, like, it's. It is a lot more complicated. But, like, I am just confused why. Like, I'm just confused. I'm. You know what? I'm confused by myself for staying and settling.

[Alex Cooper]

I think that's fair. I think a lot of people are. Do you like to give first or receive first and with your partner first. Okay. PDA or keep it private.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Don't fucking do that. Don't actually legit. Don't. I got like, really stressed out.

[Alex Cooper]

FaceTimes or phone calls?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I like both.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I like both. A lot of, like, I feel like a lot of Jinzoo is just FaceTime instead of call, but like, I. I like both.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah. Depending on the vibe.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

Late night or morning sex?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Late night. Late night.

[Alex Cooper]

Make the first move or be pursued?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Make the first move back in the day.

[Alex Cooper]

Drunk sex or high sex?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

God, both are awesome. But I probably high sex now.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah, agree. Wand or rabbit?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I do not. With rabbits. I don't with like, a lot of them, honestly.

[Alex Cooper]

What is your favorite?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I guess wand or like, the little. The. The rose thing, but it's not the rose.

[Alex Cooper]

Have you tried the one that like, pulsates and it's like the womanizer thing?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yes.

[Alex Cooper]

Like, pulsates on your. It's the best thing ever.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yes.

[Alex Cooper]

I use it like every time I have sex work.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

That is like, what is also so different about let. For me, it's like, for some reason a lot of men that I've been with have been really uncomfortable with me using toys. But, like, I think it's like a given with a lot of like, gay sex. So it's kind of awesome that that's not even like an issue.

[Alex Cooper]

I think that every single person should be able to bring toys into the bedroom. And if your partner doesn't let you. He's a little boy. Okay, I promise. Wrapping up. Just a couple more questions I want to just talk to you about. Obviously, your career has been insane this year. Like, I don't even have words to describe it. And with so much of that comes, like, what we've been. We were talking about earlier of just, like, pressures and things that you don't know how to handle. Like, have any female artists in the industry ever reach out to you to offer support in all of this?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yeah, like, almost every girl.

[Alex Cooper]

Wow.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Yeah, it's really awesome.

[Alex Cooper]

What piece of advice do you think has helped you the most in all of this?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Just said it feels like puberty. It's like everything is going to change and everything is going to hurt and everything is going to be uncomfortable now. And that, like, there is a way to make life bearable again. And just like Katy Perry literally was so straight up, she was like, just don't read the comments. Good night. And she like, when she came up to me at Brat at Sweat tour, she's like, just don't. Don't read the comments, honey. Bye. Bye. It's just like hopped off. And I was like, actually, yeah, like, why am I doing this myself? And she is so like, these women have fucking done it, like, and are still doing it in the way they're still doing it is by ultimate protection. And another, I mean, the best piece of advice was spend more than you're comfortable with on security. That's the thing. You don't realize. You don't realize how many people are watching you. And you don't realize they are like, everyone wants some people, Some people want me dead. Like, it's crazy. People know everything about me. People know my flight numbers, People know everything. That was the crazy part. It happened literally overnight. Like, I landed like I. Everything was normal, did govball. It was fine. I was walking around New York, I was getting stopped, you know, like, oh my God. Lovely la la. I was like, oh, thank you. Hehe. Then I do Fallon, fly back the next day from Fallon, land at the airport. There is someone waiting for me at my gate. And this has never happened before. And I was like, oh, what? I was like, how did you get in here? And like, they had like my album and stuff and they had bought a ticket to get through TSA just to get to my gate. And then like, when I got to baggage claim, there were five people waiting. So literally overnight. And then it like happened so much after that and it like, stuff has been happening like that since.

[Alex Cooper]

The feeling of being watched is the weirdest thing.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I get why it's addictive, though. It's a dick. It's addictive to walk in and know that everyone's looking at you and that everyone's saying, that's addictive. Fame is so addictive. I get it. I get why people want this forever.

[Alex Cooper]

Do you have like, moments where you're like, holy, am I too in it right now? Like, do you ever have moments where you try to pull back? Whether it's like, I need to pull back on public appearances a little bit. Like, I need to fucking be in a reality for like, just a little bit more before I push myself back into it.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Well, that's why I do like stuff like this, because it's fun.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Doing stuff that's soul sucking is actually where I lose myself.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

So if I'm like, I can do my job, but as long as it's fun, then I feel like I haven't lost myself. But what feels like I'm too in it is when I start caring about numbers, when I start caring about charts, when I start caring about checks, when I start caring about, like, well, what is she doing? Oh, she's doing that much touring. Okay. Hey, let's add some more. It's like, that's when I'm not in reality anymore because, like, actually, the only thing that matters is, like, I go out on stage and, like, make, like, me smile, and then some other people smile, and then I get off stage and pay my rent, and that's it.

[Alex Cooper]

Tell me if you have to in just, like, a. One of the accomplishments or just a moment from this past year that you're the most proud of.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I mean, the VMAs were so awesome. I had a great time. I had a great time at the Grammys. Like, I think I'm real. What I'm really. What I'm actually most proud of myself for is, like, dang, I didn't. I didn't bend at the knee. I did not kiss the ring. That's actually what I think I'm the most proud. I did not do, like, I did not jump through the hoops that I was told I had to to get a Grammy or, like, I did not have to kiss the ring of what? Whoever. Like, I just. You either like me as I am or don't invite me to a party or don't invite me to an award show or don't expect me to. Like, I don't know. I. I'm very. I'm most proud of myself for doing what makes me feel like a good person over what is the most. How can I get the most money? You know, Like, I turned. I just want to feel like a good person. I don't care about anything else in this world. Like, that's my deepest fear of all time. In my heart of hearts, my deepest fear is feeling a bad person and doing everything I can to be a good person and then still realizing I'm actually bad. But that's some Christian guilt there, dude.

[Alex Cooper]

Growing up Catholic, I was like, you can't. You can't shake it. It's hard. Favorite song to perform.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I like my Kikis Karma Love.

[Alex Cooper]

Who is your dream artist to collaborate with?

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Scissor.

[Alex Cooper]

That would be good. You started off 20, 25 winning a Grammy. Can you tease anything else? To the Daddy gang of what is to come this year.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Oh, the Giver is not the only song. I will say that. That and girl, you know I'm going to be coming out with looks for the. For the festivals chapel.

[Alex Cooper]

Ron, thank you so much for coming on. Call Her Daddy.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

Thank you for having me.

[Alex Cooper]

This was such an honor. You blew me away. Like, one of the best interviews ever. You're insane. No, you're insane. Like, no. And you are. You are. And. And good vibes. Thank you.

[Kaylee Amstutz]

I like your questions.

[Chapel Roan]

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