Dove Cameron: Toxic Patterns, Engagement, & Entering 30's

Summary

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Call Her Daddy Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Dove Cameron: Toxic Patterns, Engagement, & Entering 30's
Host: Alex Cooper
Guest: Dove Cameron
Date: February 4, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this deeply personal and emotionally charged episode, Alex Cooper sits down with award-winning actress and singer Dove Cameron. The two discuss entering their 30s, processing childhood trauma, cycles of toxic relationships, self-growth, the legacy of Dove’s Disney past, finding real love, and embracing vulnerability. Dove candidly speaks about surviving family and personal tragedies, overcoming imposter syndrome, and stepping into adulthood with empathy and power. The conversation is raw, layered, and uplifting—offering connection for anyone wrestling with identity, loss, or breaking free from old patterns.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Entering Her 30s: Liberation and Self-Acceptance

• Feeling empowered by age
  • Dove: “I feel great about 30. I don't really have any hang ups about it... I was really wanting to be heard, wanting to be taken seriously, wanting to be respected at a younger age than people were willing to give that to me.” (01:40)
• Societal myths about youth and womanhood
  • Alex: “Society makes us feel like... your 20s are gonna be the best years, you'll have so much fun. But women I've talked to in their 30s, 40s, 60s are like, these are actually the best decades.” (02:28)
  • Dove: Challenges the narrative that women are ‘only valuable’ when young, tracing who benefits from that rhetoric (05:03).

2. Battling People-Pleasing and Imposter Syndrome

• Leaving behind people-pleasing
  • Dove: “It wasn't because I wanted people to like me—it was that I just don't want to upset anyone. So real and so unrewarding.” (03:04)
• Owning her worth
  • Late 20s brought confidence: “Even I can't really tell me that I don't know what I'm doing... I’ve well and truly earned some things.” (03:04)

3. Pressures of Appearance in Hollywood

• Struggle with body image and control
  • Dove: Opens up about her “reckoning” with harmful self-aesthetic practices, tying them to a need to “control the only thing I could control to hopefully create an environment where bad things wouldn’t happen” (07:48-09:21).
  • Saw “shape-shifting” for safety, not beauty; found healing through therapy and letting go.

4. Childhood Trauma & Family Background

• The murder of her childhood best friend

  • At age 8, her best friend Haley was murdered by her father.
  • Dove: “Even at 8, I could sense a dark energy. I remember... just not getting out of bed for like two days because it was so impossible to process.” (13:38-16:09)

• Impact of early trauma

  • Dove notes it fundamentally “fissured my psychology... I still have experiences where I’m grateful for the good things as long as I have them, because truly, at any moment it can be just an entirely flipped script.” (17:17)

• Family dynamics and her father’s mental illness

  • Dove grew up in a home marked by her father’s depression and bipolar disorder; recalls extreme mood swings and feeling responsible for family stability.
  • Dove: “I knew there was something, because I was a very precocious kid... The thing I was the most aware of was my dad’s really intense emotional swings... you hope to work around that, avoid his triggers... It’s not in your character, it’s an affliction.” (23:47-30:12)
  • Describes both the beauty and intensity of her family: “Some days are beautiful, and some days you’re upended again.”

5. Cycles of Toxic Love & Breaking Patterns

• How family patterns bleed into love
  • Dove: “The patterning that my brain found around, like: there’s the person who does the thing, and then the person who’s there for cleanup... That really fucked me up in my dating life.” (33:29-33:47)
  • Tolerated toxic behavior in relationships because of learned tolerance at home: “If my dad could do those things but love me... can I believe someone who does those things in a romantic relationship and says they love me?”
• Hitting rock bottom, then healing
  • Openly shares enduring “scary” moments in relationships that forced clarity: documented abusive episodes, sought therapy, and took a two-year romantic hiatus for self-healing (35:21-37:48).

6. Breaking Into Hollywood & Disney

• Resistant to ‘Disney girl’ stereotype
  • Dove: “I didn’t want to do Disney... I felt like it was going to be a lifelong commitment... I already felt older, already had trauma. I was not going to be the girl who came off fresh-faced.” (41:42-43:58)
  • Disney experience was both surreal and “some of the most fun and joyful times of my life.” (44:39)
  • On outgrowing Disney: “I have no interest in ‘bursting the Disney bubble’… I was just a good employee.” (48:12-48:59)

7. Grappling With Her Father’s Suicide

• The complexity of final interactions
  • Shares her last interactions with her father and the challenging realization of not being able to fix or be the “constant” for him (51:38-59:59).
  • Learning her father had taken his own life via a phone call: “All three of my big losses have come via phone call… I have major phone anxiety because of this.” (60:01-62:11)
• The pain of sudden loss
  • Most difficult was imagining his final moments and wondering if he felt loved (64:59).
  • Finds meaning in grief: “Part of the things I really love about myself and my life now are marked by the deepening that happens with grief... I love differently, I live differently.” (64:59-69:22)

8. Rebirth: Changing Her Name

• Honoring her father
  • Legally changed her name to “Dove” (her father’s nickname for her) to stay connected: “Everywhere I went, everyone was calling me what he used to call me.” (72:02-72:29)

9. Real Love and Healthy Partnership

• Finding the right partner after trauma

  • Engaged to Damiano (lead singer of Måneskin), describes a slow-burn, “meet-cute” connection that only flourished once both were healed and open (74:56-82:50).
  • Proposal at home, rooted in wanting “a normal life together—dishes, laundry, big T-shirt, no makeup. I choose you.” (91:27-91:28)
  • Both agreed that mature, honest communication about marriage was key—they were “active participants” in the process (85:00-86:09).

• Vulnerability and being fully seen

  • Dove: “I told him everything about myself... Even the things I don't want to admit to myself. Here's my mistakes, my loss, my things I still struggle with. Do you sign on for this? And he was like, yeah. Picked it up and put it on his back.” (93:54)
  • Partner’s emotional intuition and support is “so healing” after years of feeling ‘too much’ to be loved.

• Message to listeners struggling to find love:

  • “Don’t shrink yourself or believe you’re too damaged... you just have to find the right person who can support you. They won’t fix it, but they’ll love you through it.” (97:59)

10. New Career Moves: ‘56 Days’

• About her new show
  • A “pseudo-sexual thriller” about a love story that turns deadly. “Between that day and 56 days later, one of them ends up dead in a bathtub, melted by acid.” (100:39-101:10)
  • Proud of nuanced adult roles, including nudity: “I’ve never found nudity to be offensive or objectifying. Naked bodies are an innocent thing.” (103:16-104:04)
  • Sex scenes serve the narrative: the progression of intimacy mirrors the evolving, sometimes dark, relationship.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There’s a vested interest in highlighting those years that... in my experience were the worst fucking years. My twenties were the worst. Glorifying that keeps us in disempowerment.” – Dove Cameron (05:03)

• “People-pleasing... it wasn’t because I wanted people to like me. It was coming from a place of ‘I just don’t want to upset anyone.’ So real and so unrewarding.” – Dove Cameron (03:04)

• On trauma cycles:

  • “There’s the person who does the thing and the person who’s there for cleanup. That really fucked me up in my dating life.” (33:29)
  • “If my dad could do these things and love me, could I believe someone in a romantic relationship who did those things and told me they loved me?” (34:06)

• On healing:

  • “I had to take a two year dating sabbatical... I was so disturbed by where I’d gotten myself to and who I’d chosen to love. But it’s complicated.” – Dove Cameron (37:36)

• On her partner:

  • “I told him everything... he just picked it up and put it on his back. It was so healing for me. He never wavered.” (93:54)

• On losing her father:

  • “All three of my big losses have come via phone call… I have major phone anxiety because of this.” (60:01)
  • “I would much rather have these things had not happened. But the deepening that happens with grief... I live my life differently.” (64:59)

• Proposal moment:

  • “He was like: ‘I know some girls want rose petals and extravagance but I wanted to do it like this because I want you in your big T-shirt, no makeup. I want a life, life. And I choose this. I choose you.’” (91:27)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:36] Entering 30, leaving behind 20s
• [04:15] People-pleasing and self-sabotage
• [07:44] Letting go of body image pressure
• [13:38] Childhood trauma: losing her best friend
• [23:47] Father's mental health, family dynamics
• [33:29] Toxic patterns in romantic relationships
• [41:42] Entering Hollywood & Disney's “dark” reputation
• [51:38] Last days with her father & his suicide
• [64:59] Grief, healing, and self-reflection
• [72:02] Changing her name to Dove
• [74:56] Meeting her fiancé Damiano (Måneskin)
• [91:27] Proposal at home—choosing “life, life”
• [100:17] New series ‘56 Days’ and adult acting roles

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Tone & Final Thoughts

This episode is emotional, candid, and cathartic, alternating between laughter, tears, and profound insights. Both Alex and Dove share openly, connecting on the universal themes of grief, growth, and resilience. The tone is warm, direct, and often self-deprecating, with both host and guest normalizing mental health struggles, the complexity of family, and the lifelong journey of self-discovery.
For anyone who has felt broken or “too much” or is searching for meaning after loss, Dove’s story is both a mirror and a map—filled with pain, survival, hope, and love.

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Transcript

[Alex Cooper]

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[Dove Cameron]

Thank you so much.

[Alex Cooper]

It's so nice to meet you.

[Dove Cameron]

It's so nice to meet you too.

[Alex Cooper]

You just turned 30.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

How are we feeling?

[Dove Cameron]

Honestly, I feel great about 30. I looked right down the barrel of the lens. I was like, I feel great about 30. I don't really have any like hang ups about it as far as I can tell so far. Like, I feel like I have always felt older than I was. And I think in a lot of ways I was like waiting to be in my 30s because I feel like for me at least when I was younger I was really like wanting to be heard, wanting to be taken seriously, wanting to be respected at a younger age than people were willing to give that to me. And so I've always felt like the older I got, the closer I got to feeling like the world was perceiving me in the way that I perceive me.

[Alex Cooper]

I think that is so real because I feel like the society makes us feel like, oh my God, your 20s are gonna be the best years of your Life, you're gonna have so much fun. And like, I feel like I've been so fortunate to sit with women on this show who are in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s. I just sat with Michelle Obama and she was like, wait, girl, this is the decade. 60s are the shit. I'm like, okay, so I do think we kind of are brainwashed almost to think specific eras of our youth are going to be incredible.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

What do you think you're personally excited to leave behind in your 20s?

[Dove Cameron]

God, just feeling not so, like, like feeling like I don't deserve a seat at the table yet because, like, I really gaslight myself and I have crazy imposter syndrome around, like, what I deserve, what I have earned. If I'm good at something. Do I know enough about this to call myself by this title? And I feel like in my 20s it was so much like self sabotage and second guessing and hiding away because I didn't take myself seriously. And then there's something about late 20s to now 30 that I feel like even I can't really tell me that I don't know what I'm doing in this, in this area of my job. Like, I feel like I've well and truly earned some things that like, in my 20s I was a little more reticent to give myself credit for. So, like, that's something I'm really looking for. I also just think, like, in general, I know this is really surface level and kind of easy, but like, people pleasing in general was something that I was so guilty of and so under the influence of, like, and it wasn't, it wasn't because I wanted people to like me. It was coming from a place of like, I just don't want to upset anyone. So real and so unrewarding.

[Alex Cooper]

Because actually what you're saying is we actually start to clue into. I don't need to. People, please, please as much I actually don't need to dress for the male gaze or I don't need to do these things. So we're actually getting wiser. And that's terrifying to the society that we live in of, oh my God, a woman in her power. How dare she actually use her, Use her voice and stand up for herself. And so it's a whole thing to repress us. But then I'm speaking to all these women recently and they're like, wait, it's amazing. I'm like, why does it always feel like we grew up as these young girls and we're like, so terrified of aging? Because there's so Much rhetoric around.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

You basically disappear and your worth is essentially gone if you're not like a fresh 21 year old. And that's why I love these conversations were like, guys, again, I'm sitting with a woman who's like, I'm feeling better. What a concept.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, I think, like, I think that, I mean, if you look at the. Who would benefit from the messaging of you're only valuable when you are barely legal. You're only valuable when you don't know yourself yet. You're only valuable when your body still has, like, leftovers of looking like a child. Like, if you look at those things and you ask yourself, like, what is the demographic that benefits from that messaging? It's not us. Like, it's. Women aren't pushing that, like being, you know, there's a. There's a vested interest in highlighting those years that truly, in my experience were the worst fucking years. Like my twenties were the worst. So I think there's a vested interest in glorifying that because then it sort of keeps us in a position of. Yeah. Disempowerment.

[Alex Cooper]

I do think also something interesting you just said is you've always kind of felt older. And I think there's a beauty. Yes. Of getting older. But then we also. We have to talk about our looks. Right. Where it's like, it can feel great. But then there's the standard that we feel pressure, especially in this industry. Have you ever felt pressures around Botox or fillers or editing and all of that that comes with our job to maintain your stance in this industry?

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, I mean, that's a really good. And I think, like, I think I have a complex answer around that. When I was younger, I had a really intense sort of set of, like, rules and strictures about, like, what I was allowed to be and who people wanted me to be and how I was going to represent that. Dive headfirst into that. Always be that.

[Alex Cooper]

Right.

[Dove Cameron]

And a huge part of that was like an infantilization. And like, I was just so scared to not be 18. Like, that was something that was really scary for me. Not because I believed it, but because the culture was so loud about it. And especially my position in the culture, starting out on Disney Channel, being blonde and being so bubbly and open with. With the world in a way that was not healthy for me. And so a couple years ago, I had this big reckoning with myself. I had, like, finally let my body just be what it is. Like, I stopped doing all the things to my body that I was doing before. That were really self harming. And so I processed a lot and I wrote a lot and I went to a lot of therapy and I came out on the other side of it like I guess sort of externally unrecognizable. But I really feel like I've bucked any sort of fear about aging in that way.

[Alex Cooper]

And it's beautiful to hear you say, like it's actually happened recently.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, I also think like this, this was sort of an accidental thing that happened. But like, I think so much of what I was doing to myself, which is a very broad umbrella because like I don't want to trivialize any of the things that I was going through, experiencing, doing to myself. But under that very broad umbrella of all of the things that I used to do that I now no longer do, part of what made it really clear to me that I didn't want to torture myself anymore. And for me it was torture. Like for me it was torture. Anything aesthetic or anything to do with food or overexercising, everything in that genre of like shape shifting I would call it, for me was really self harming because it wasn't for me. It wasn't to feel beautiful. It was in fact to be, to feel safe. Like it, I had it in my head that like, if I was physically perfect, no one would harm me. Like in this really weird kind of juvenile way of like, maybe I'll be accepted, maybe I'll be loved. Maybe the bad, bad things that used to happen won't happen. It was like this way of controlling the one thing I could control to hopefully create an environment where like bad things wouldn't happen. I don't know if that makes any sense, but I just, I came from such a crazy background and like litany of experiences that I was just looking for anything to grab onto that felt like this is my choice.

[Alex Cooper]

Can we get into your background? Because I want to get into all of this. Like there's so many things that you're talking about that I think are unfortunately but realistically like very relatable for a lot of women who are going to be listening today. And so I think kind of having a little bit of your background and understanding where you came from I think will also give more context to then these themes that we're going to talk about. Okay, let's go all the way back to the beginning. Grew up on a small island in Washington. What was your town like? Paint the picture.

[Dove Cameron]

Bainbridge Island.

[Alex Cooper]

Shout out.

[Dove Cameron]

Bainbridge Island. A world that only exists to the.

[Alex Cooper]

People that live There, like a big population? Small, Small.

[Dove Cameron]

I mean, like 20,000. Okay, so like for an island, small, but for like a town, maybe medium. I don't know. I don't know. I've lost plot of the scale. But Bainbridge is really idyllic. It's like you. So you're in Seattle, you land in Seattle, you take a ferry boat. 20 minute ferry boat ride. You can walk on or you can drive on. If it's like 180 cars or something. Someone's gonna have to back me up on that. She's like googling. And it's super quaint. Like, it's very. There's like no crime. You know, they like opened up a weed store like 10 years ago. Like, if there's any crime, it like rocks the. It's like 10 years and then nothing. Nothing happens after that.

[Alex Cooper]

It's kind of like the things that you see on tv. Like the small town, everyone knows everyone.

[Dove Cameron]

It's very that. It's also like the businesses are named after the family that's been there for five generations. And they all like. I went to school with the same last names at my sister and my mom and everybody, you know, got it. It's like that.

[Alex Cooper]

And what did you do for fun as a kid?

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, God, nothing. I mean, like. No, because it's. No, because it's. It's such a beautiful place. But it's like, you know, one of those places where like the kids start, like smoking weed really early because they're just so bored. Like, it was like that because I.

[Alex Cooper]

You.

[Dove Cameron]

No, it wasn't me. I mean, like, I was hanging out with those kids, but I was like, scared.

[Alex Cooper]

Classic. Yeah, you're like pretending you're smoking, but you're like, oh, my God.

[Dove Cameron]

I was like, I'm a singer. I was like going to musical theater, being like, no, but I. I didn't, I didn't. But I was in with that. Like, I got, you know, I got a tatt 14 kind of.

[Alex Cooper]

Kind of town. The Capricorn Tattoo.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

Community theater. What did you like about being on stage? Like, were you confident young girl, like, ready to go and. Okay.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, I was. I was one of those, like, I think I was probably pretty annoying. Like, when I was younger, I was like, I was very confident, I was very friendly. I was very. Just personable. Like, I was very. Wanted to talk to everyone, wanted to be friends. Very loud. Like, I don't know. I grew up with parents who, like, were artists and so they were like, whoever you want to be. You Be her. And I was like, great. Got it. Like, written it down. Got it. So I was very confident. I was very.

[Alex Cooper]

For a while.

[Dove Cameron]

And then I feel like middle school kind of, like, beats it out of you. Like, middle school on the other side, you, like, wait, you're, like, being perceived. People hate me.

[Alex Cooper]

I think something that's really relatable of the middle school commentary is, like. And it makes me sad for our younger selves is there's the version of us before, like you said, being perceived by your peers, and there's the version of you at home that just has this endless idea of who you can be in the world that you want to be in. And then you start to interact, and life happens and horrible things happen, and then that starts to mold you, which is just life. And I know obviously, something horrible happened when you were 8 years old. Your best friend was murdered by her father, which is like saying that out loud. I. I'm like, don't even know how to communicate how. Sorry. And I can't even imagine how painful that time was. And even still, decades later, how painful that must be, even to talk about it. Do you mind, though, sharing, like, how you found out this news and what happened during that time in your life? Because 8 years old is like, life is great. And then.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was really. Yeah. I guess it was like that we. We had a very sort of, like. Yeah. Idyllic, sort of foresty childhood. Haley was her name. She lived also on the island for the majority of our childhood. And we had met when we were two. Like, it was just one of those things where, you know, like, they're like some little girls. They meet each other and they're like, oh, that's like, you just. Yeah. And it's funny, I rarely talk about this, not because it's like a. It's a problem to talk about, but just, like, it's so not the first thing that people usually ask me. But she. Her parents had gotten a divorce, and it was really messy. And I had stayed with her dad for, like, quite a lot of the summer before this happened. And I think even at 8, I, like, it was like, a dark energy, Right. Like, he was a very angry man. Um, and I was at home one day, sick from school, so it must have been, like, third grade. And I. It was. We had, like, landlines. And it was like that era where if you picked up a landline, like, my parents were in their office, like, in a different building, you know, nearby, at home, and I was at home, and they had an incoming call for their office, and I picked it up because I was just like a kid, and I was just, like, listening in. And it was actually our preschool principal who was tasked with making the call, Janice, who was an angel, an absolute angel. And that's where we met. And she basically said, like, this is going to be a really, really disturbing call. Hayley and Kelsey are gone. Steve is gone. And he took the girls with him, is what she said. Like, just very quick. And I think my. It was my mom on the phone, and I remember her, like, decompressing, not knowing how to handle it. And then I think they heard me, like, express some sort of child noise, whatever that was. Like a gasp. And then I. They came in, and then we just, like, didn't get out of bed for, like, two days because it was so impossible to process.

[Alex Cooper]

And eight years old. Like, why I wanted to ask you about that more is because I think that is so formative for everyone around you, but it's like, that's something that, like, stays in your body. Because I feel like at that young of an age, and I'm sure a lot of people can relate to trauma at young ages. Not that exact trauma, but, like, there's something as human beings where, when it's that young, you probably don't talk about it that much at that young age, because, like, what is mental health? And how do you even speak about these things? So you internalize it in your body and then it sticks with you.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

How do you think losing her kind of started to shift the way that you saw the world?

[Dove Cameron]

That's a really good question, I think. Well, my parents tried to put me in therapy for a while because I think even they knew, like. Because it. Even at the time, like, this was 22 years ago. So it's like, mental health wasn't. The Internet wasn't what it was. My parents didn't really know. Like, there was no therapy speak in the way that we all kind of can psychoanalyze each other in, like, pop psychology.

[Alex Cooper]

Yes.

[Dove Cameron]

Each other now. Like, they really didn't know, but they knew enough to put me in therapy. Like, I was very, very, very, very, very disturbed by knowing someone for all that time and being, like, raised around them and then realizing that they are capable of doing something so harrowing. And I think that that kind of, like, fissured my psychology, like, my brain and how I process things. Like, kind of like, I don't want to be dark, but, like, kind of forever. Like, I still have issues. And you know there were more things that happened that sort of echoed that experience. But I still have experiences where I'm like, I'm grateful for the relationships that I have as long as I have them. I'm grateful for the good things as long as I have them. Because Trul, at any moment it can be just an entirely flipped script black and white situation which I think I have acceptance around because I've had so much practice at it. But I also think like, you know, it is something that I, I think I forget is, is playing, is running my brain so much. Like it's really the source of most of my anxiety.

[Alex Cooper]

I know in the past you, you kind of talked about how this death accelerated a darkness that was going on in your own home.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

Can you kind of explain what you meant by that?

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, I think. I don't actually know as an adult, like how to rationalize the correlation between this loss and then sort of subsequently what happened with my family. But I think it was just like, my mom could probably tell you better, but I think it was just sort of an invisible chipping away at an already sort of shaky foundation that was my parents marriage. And I want to state from the beginning like my mother is. My mother is totally okay with me speaking about this stuff. I would never speak out of turn and I think my dad would be too. But I think it was, my parents were not a love match. Like my parents were not a love match. My dad was at least, at the very least not straight. They got married because they got pregnant and it was like my dad came from a Catholic family and they had love for each other. Like I see home videos from when I was little or before I was born. And like, I think my dad truly loved my mom, just not as a husband and wife. Right.

[Alex Cooper]

Like romantic. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

And I, I don't think he ever fully accepted that about himself. And so they just had this sort of like they, they both wanted something from each other that the other person couldn't give. Right. And. And I knew that there was something.

[Alex Cooper]

Off like your whole life.

[Dove Cameron]

I think I would say right around 8. I would say right around that time. It's funny, someone called me out once for being like, damn, so much happened to this girl when she was 8. And I was like, actually, yeah, yeah. That was kind of the years. Banner year.

[Alex Cooper]

That was the big year. The big eight for you. Because some people it's like 21 or 15. You're like eight.

[Dove Cameron]

My frontal lobe developed at eight.

[Alex Cooper]

Eight. Try me.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, it's true.

[Alex Cooper]

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[Dove Cameron]

You know? Yeah, we did. It was such a fucking blur. But I knew. I knew that there was something, because, like I said, I was a very precocious kid. Like, I was not. There was never a time where I was sheltered. And then suddenly I was like, big new world. Like, I was at the adults. You were clued in table. Yeah. Yeah, In a big way. And not in a way that I regret either. Like, in a way that I actually think is what I needed. I think the thing that I would say is what I was the most aware of was that my dad had really intense emotional swings. Like, I knew that I knew how to be prepared for that. I knew how to hopefully work around that, which also then, like, obviously splinters off into, like, how your brain works as you get older and affects who you date and what you accept. But that's not. Like, I. I know this might be controversial. This is just my personal opinion about my. My father, but I truly don't think it was his fault. I think he was so traumatized and so repressed, and he had a really, really, really, really, really rough childhood and life and all of that. And I think that he was doing his best with the tools that he had, and he didn't have enough tools. And, you know, there were times when, like, if something completely divorced from something that I did or my. My sister and my mom did happen, but it was like we were the person in the room. Not really my sister. My sister and him were. Were better about this because she was just less combative. And I think she would also be okay with me saying that, like, she was much more. Like, she had learned to avoid his triggers in, like, a different way, whereas I would try to avoid them, and then if they happened, I would sort of, like, fight back, because I was like, you. I don't care that I'm 12. You cannot talk to me like that. Which was not something that worked well.

[Alex Cooper]

Right.

[Dove Cameron]

Not something that earned me gold stars in the family household. My mom, I think, loved it. My mom was always like, go, baby. But my dad really didn't like being challenged. And so we had a bit of a tenuous relationship as I got older. But I. You know, I would Come home and something would happen and suddenly like all the VHS would be in the trash. And he'd be like, you no more nice things. You cannot have this. Like you're being punished for this thing. And it was like, for what? You know, it was just something. It was something that was happening in his brain purely for him that like, he had either like mis. Labeled like something that I had done wrong that was like, I think I've told this story before, but like I had this Barbie, bubblegum, toothpaste. And one day he came home from the office, like really stressed and he used it in this kind of like aggressive, joking way, like, I'm going to take the toothpaste. And I like a 8 year old was like, no, that's my tooth. Like, ew, germs. Whatever I said. And he heard that as like he was like, I pay for everything in this house. You know, like in this sort of like, you don't know how good you have it. And then for like a week, like, wouldn't talk to me, wouldn't look at me, wouldn't tell me he loved me. Like, just really, just really strange, like things that at the time I didn't recognize for what they were because now I. It was strange then, it's not strange now because I understand it more now.

[Alex Cooper]

You talking about kind of being the defiant sibling of the one that. I think that's also very relatable of having different childhood experiences with your parents than your siblings is weird because then when you get older, you're like, that's not how it happened. And they're like, no, that's not how.

[Dove Cameron]

Or like mom and dad are like, this or this happened. It's like, it's not even events. It's like, that's not who I grew up with.

[Alex Cooper]

Right. Oh, how nice for you. Because that wasn't my reality. Yeah, yeah. When you would be, you know, going back and challenging your father and be like, no, I'm gonna stand up for myself. As at such a young age, I'm assuming though, when it got heightened to some capacity. I don't know, I don't want to speak for you, but like, there could be moments you had to dissociate or go into survival mode because you're like, oh my God, this is okay, the face. You're like, girl, little Dino. Yeah. What behaviors did you. Or you can now look back and recognize you started to lean into in these really heightened, traumatic moments with your father.

[Dove Cameron]

I actually just wrote a song about this called Silver Screen Baby. And about sort of my desperation to escape to Hollywood. I had this, like, very, like, bullish, sort of headstrong belief that, like, my home was not ever going to feel like home in the way that it felt like to the other girls that I went to school with. Because, I'm going to be honest, just, like, a slight delineation. But, like, my home was also magical. Like, that's the weird thing about living with a parent who deals with, you know, struggles with their mental health. It's. Some days are really beautiful, and some days. Some days are weeks, some days are long stretches of time, and you're like, oh. And then you settle, and then it's like, you know, upended again. So I don't ever want to make it seem like, you know, my childhood was only one thing. It was also exceptionally beautiful and special. And my parents were great parents in a lot of ways. Like, my mom has always been the perfect mom. Like, I'm so big on saying that. She just got saddled with a very difficult, like, workload and situation, which wasn't really her design, but. But my dad also was exceptional. Like, there's a reason that I have spoken so highly of him and written so many songs about him and why I care so much about mental health is because it is a. It's not in your character. It's an affliction. It's. It's something that. There's a reason why we say people struggle with mental health.

[Alex Cooper]

Chemical. Yeah, chemical.

[Dove Cameron]

It's not a fucking choice. And so I. You know, I. I look at my dad as the. As the parts of him that were so. So magical, right? Like, the parts of him that. Sorry. I fully came in today, and I was like, I'm not gonna put. Sorry. Sorry. I. So much of who I am is my mom, right? So much of who I am, but so much of who I am and who I grow into now I look back and I retroactively realize was my dad. And.

[Alex Cooper]

Sorry.

[Dove Cameron]

It's like the. The parts of him that I never got to meet as I got older. I get to meet them as I become them, which has been like, a really profound experience, you know, because I remember all these things about him. And as I get older, I see them coming out in my personality, like, on accident, and I'm like, oh, my God. Like, it feels like getting a sort of a piece of closure is kind of like following a roadmap that has. And leading me towards really feeling like his daughter, you know, because I love him. He's so special and. And it's such a shame to never get to know your parent fully.

[Alex Cooper]

I think what. I think a lot of people are going to sit here and also cry with you as I'm crying, because I have someone so close to me that has a very similar experience to you in it with a father and losing a father to bipolar. And it's so complicated. And as we talk about it all the time and our personal moments and what I'm hearing from you, which is so helpful because it's like, oh, this is a relatable feeling where it's like, the highs are so high, and that doesn't mean that they're not highs. Like.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

And with a parent, you need to hold on to those beautiful moments. Like, we can sit here. And of course, it's like, we're talking about the really hard moments in your childhood with this, because we're not saying your father intentionally hurt you, but as a human being sitting in front of me, we would be remiss to not acknowledge that so much. Yeah, there was hurt, not intentional, but it did form then who you are as a human being or your personality or your behaviors or what. Then you went on to accept. And so you. It's like, we have to talk that through also to acknowledge who. How strong you are. But then, right, there's the moments where you now can look back at your father and be like, but then there was this creative side to him, and there was this, like, brilliance to him. And so bipolar is really confusing to the people around people like that, because you see two different sides to someone, and one day you'll wake up and think about the good side, and then the other day you think about the bad side. And that's really confusing because most people, you're like, this is who this person is.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

And you can kind of be like in one sentence, but with this, you're like, there was a lot going on.

[Dove Cameron]

I also will very, very earnestly say that the patterning that my brain found around, like, there's the person who does the thing and then the person who's there for cleanup. That really fucked me up in my dating life.

[Alex Cooper]

I cannot imagine. Because you're learning at a young age because it's your blood and your father to put up with, and you're innately seeking love from your parent.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

Who you're a half of. But then when you then are so used to something more.

[Dove Cameron]

Also, like, so used to. Yes. But also, like, the thing that I could not let go of in my 20s, which is another thing that we are leaving behind. The list is long. One thing that I fucking couldn't let go of, I couldn't conceptualize, was if my dad could do those things, but I know he loved me. Can I believe someone who can do those things to me in a romantic relationship who then tells me they love me and they almost went hand in hand for me for a long time? And, you know, sometimes I look back and I blame myself for staying in those relationships. Sometimes I look back with great empathy and I say, I couldn't have known better. Sometimes my empathy even extends as far enough to say that they couldn't have known better. But then I dial it back.

[Alex Cooper]

Then you're like, wait, no, you definitely.

[Dove Cameron]

Could have known better, right? Yeah. I found myself in a lot of situations that accidentally mirrored your father and your relationship completely.

[Alex Cooper]

Did you ever have a moment in a relationship where it got to those moments of the most heightened, where it was, like, scary, where you then look at yourself and you're like, wait, how? How am I putting myself in danger?

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, yeah. No, I'm also. I wrote a song about that also recently, which I won't share right now because it's one of my favorite songs I've ever written, and I just want to, like, keep it for the album.

[Alex Cooper]

But.

[Dove Cameron]

That was actually one of the reasons that the. One of my relationships that I was in ended, was it. It came to a very very. Not physical. Not physical, but a very, very, very, very scary moment that I was like, I'm going to document this. Like, I'm calling my mom right now. I'm calling all my friends, like. And it was. But it was something. It took. It took me. It took me up until that to be like, okay, wait, this isn't love.

[Alex Cooper]

And it's not your threshold, though, Dove.

[Dove Cameron]

My threshold was high, girl. My threshold was good, crazy high. And I also. I also. It's such a weird thing to try to explain to people who have never been in this position. I loved that person. I was in love. I was. I was in love. And. And it's hard to conceptualize, like, people who are like, but how can you love someone who does those things to you? And yes, I would say now, from a healed and healthy perspective, I would agree. I would. I would also find it inconceivable, but.

[Alex Cooper]

I was going to say, but. But I think what. We also have to have empathy with ourselves and other humans when everyone's like, why did you stay? And why did you do this? How would you know any better of what you deserve when within your own home, there was a pattern and there was a procedure essentially that you all knew when this was happening. This is how you fall in line and then he'll apologize and then we go back to normal, and then we try to pretend it didn't happen. And then another moment happens and then we get through it. And so it was like this cyclical situation that you were going through that like, that was your life and you just survived and lived so that when you get into a romantic relationship, how would it be if someone had boundaries and treated you right and was respectful? You'd be like, like, when is the other shoe gonna drop? Because you had never seen anything.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

Like that in your life. And so then it takes you actually learning and. And experiencing the world and talking to therapists and licensed people who actually are sitting there with you to be like, let me walk you through this is not healthy. This is trauma.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, well, and also, like, huge bouts of alone time. Like, I. I hit like a two year dating, romantic sabbatical. Like, I was like. Or sabbatical. Yeah, we take time off.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah, yeah. Hiatus.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, sorry. It's like, not sabbatical. I just disappeared off the face of the planet. Like, there was a while where I was like, whoa, I'm broken. Like, I'm a broken. I. I don't want anyone. Because I was just so disturbed. Like, I was so disturbed by the places I had, like, gotten myself to and. And what I had, who I had chosen to love and who I loved. Like, that's the thing is that it's complicated. Right.

[Alex Cooper]

And when you're speaking about these romantic relationships, I. And how you had said, you know, you have such empathy for, understandably your mother, who you watched in this relationship. I think about how hard it is to leave something that is.

[Dove Cameron]

Especially when you have kids.

[Alex Cooper]

Yes. And I know I had read in an article you had said somewhere that before your parents got divorced, things were getting very real and very adult at home. What was the breaking point for your mom to get your family out?

[Dove Cameron]

That's a really good question. I think that. I think that my sister went away to college and it was just me at home, which, like, left them with 50% less distraction.

[Alex Cooper]

You know.

[Dove Cameron]

I was really depressed. Like, you know how sometimes there are those kids that go through, like, puberty and they're like, you're like, oh, God, that was me. I was like, I didn't want to be awake during the night, so I would, like, stay up all night. I was being homeschooled. I would like, just watch movies. And hearkening back to the Hollywood thing, I was like, I'm not supposed to be here here. I'm supposed to be among people who are going to understand me. And like, in my mind, my like 12 year old mind, I was like, that's Hollywood. Because these people, clearly they have an understanding for emotion. And I felt so close to these people in these movies who are making this music. And it all was being done in this one big amorphous town. They're all there. Like, I was like, great. Fucking get me there. Like, I was like, that's where I'm supposed to be as a very childlike, you know, understanding of the industry. And so I was doing this thing where I was not going to school and I was staying up all night to watch movies and because I was terrified of the night time, because I was just like traumatized. I had a hairpin trigger for any things that go bump in the night. And the house was in the woods and I was like, I don't know, I'd always been a really anxious kid. I think ever since Haley died, I was just like very easily shaken. And my parents were just kind of alone in the house and they ran a business together. And I don't know, there was, there was clearly some form of adultery happening, like where both of them were just kind of like done, done, done, done, done. And so it was, it was just time. Like, I don't know how they could have carried on, honestly.

[Alex Cooper]

And did you. Were you sitting in that house and feeling them both kind of doing their own things?

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, yeah, no, yeah. They were just a terrible, terrible match. Just like a decade of them slowly burning out.

[Alex Cooper]

So you eventually get your dream. You are sitting there, you're watching these movies, you're dreaming about going to this land where everyone is and everyone's getting to act and perform and do all these things. And you've watched this growing up for so long and then your parents get divorced and your mom and you go to la. And I remember reading that you were going for auditions and Disney said that you came off as dark and off putting.

[Dove Cameron]

That's still so funny.

[Alex Cooper]

The girl. You are too dark for Disney.

[Dove Cameron]

They were like, please stop.

[Alex Cooper]

Smile. Yeah. No.

[Dove Cameron]

They literally asked my agents to stop.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh my God.

[Dove Cameron]

They were like, she's. It's never gonna be her. Like, give it up. But we came out and I was getting sent out on all this Disney stuff and I remember saying to my mom, like, I don't want to do Disney because I, I felt like, it was going to be a lifelong commitment. I felt like I had grown up watching the girls try so hard to, like, break away from it and be respected. And I knew even when I was, like, 13 or 14, I was like, this is gonna be hard. Like, this is gonna be something really hard. That sounds so ungrateful. But, like, this was something before I got the opportunity that I was like, I don't know.

[Alex Cooper]

I don't know.

[Dove Cameron]

Because I really wanted to do movies and TV shows that felt like more adult, but for that age bracket. Like, there were like, you know, you play the daughter of so and so.

[Alex Cooper]

But it also makes sense. And I get what you're saying. You're grateful, but you're also. I. This whole conversation, we've been talking about how you've always felt older than your age. And that was the other thing, right? So you're like, Disney. Like, I. I've. I've been watching these movies, and I'm seeing myself in this. This older light. And then to do Disney. And again, Disney was established at this point, right? Like, oh, remembering when Hannah Montana came out, like, that was. That was new. Everyone didn't know that this could become this whole format. Hillary Duff, right? When you came into it, you had these people that you could look at, and there was a blueprint essentially laid out of, like, now we're watching these people try to grow out of this Persona, and it's very difficult stigma around it.

[Dove Cameron]

There was a whole, like. Like, people would write articles about, like, so and so gets a tattoo to.

[Alex Cooper]

Be a bad girl.

[Dove Cameron]

And I was like. I was like, I'm. I already have a tattoo. Like, I was like, Like.

[Alex Cooper]

Like.

[Dove Cameron]

Like this.

[Alex Cooper]

I've been around the smoking. I have the tattoo.

[Dove Cameron]

I was like, yes. I was like, there's no part of me that is, like, sheltered, you know? And I also was like, I didn't think I could be funny at the time. Like, I. I perceived myself already as, like, too dark and too whatever for Disney. Everybody with my life had been insane. Like, I was just not. I was not gonna be the girl who came off, like, fresh faced off The. The. You know, the. The. What is that? Like, the. The Greyhound bus.

[Alex Cooper]

Yes.

[Dove Cameron]

Being like, here I am and that, like, it was not a charming story. I was like, here. Deeply disturbed. Yeah, I was already deeply disturbed. And so I was like, they're never gonna pick me. Like, okay, they did.

[Alex Cooper]

So Liv and Maddie, then you get the show.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, they called me, and they were like, nine months after we shot the original pilot. They were like, hey, your show's getting picked up. I'll see you on Monday. Like, but by the way, you're playing twins, you're like, cool. No, I was like, I was on the 405 or something. My. And it was like, they called from, like, an anonymous number, which they always do. Like, they called from this. Like, no caller id.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, my God.

[Dove Cameron]

Like, the Disney Pentagon, literally. Yeah. And it was like my mom's cell phone at the time, and it was like, no caller ID, and we were on the 405, and we were like, oh, my God. You know, because we were like. We were like. We had. My mom was melting down gold to pay for our rent, like, based on her own personal jewelry. Because she was a jeweler, not because she had loads of gold.

[Alex Cooper]

Right.

[Dove Cameron]

And so we were like, oh, my God. It was like the call that changed our lives. Yeah. And I took it, and it was just such a beautiful experience, like, to hearken back to the thing where I sound, like, massively ungrateful. Disney. Disney was some of the most fun and joyful times of my life. Like, I. I had a great time on Disney Channel, which is why, like, you'll see me talking about it still. Because I'm not. I know what it was. I know that that's not who I am. I know that it was, like, a thing that I did when I was a kid and when I was a teenager. And it's something that, like, I look back on and I appreciate it for what it is. Like, we recently rewatched all the Descendants films, and I was like, these movies are so insane that, like, I can't believe they got away with it. Like. Like, CGI dragons and, like, it's like a. It's like one long acid trip for kids.

[Alex Cooper]

Right?

[Dove Cameron]

You know what I mean? Like, I was. I'm behind it.

[Alex Cooper]

I love it. Beautiful, though, that you're able to enjoy it. Because, again, I think maybe because of. I don't know why, like, maybe, like you said, like, seeing people in the comments and still remembering it, I think it's okay that, like, it's like, that was a version of you. And I think sometimes, understandably, we try to grow up quickly, and we're like, I don't want to be my younger vers to myself. But how beautiful that that was such a huge part in your life. And don't forget, like, you just said that you and your mom on the 405 and you needed this job and it changed your life. Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, my God. Disney really, like, changed my whole Life. And they supported me so much, too. Like, that was really the thing. I had great relationships in there. Like, you know, there was the. There was the thing that, like, is very expected, which is just like, I came into Disney. Yes. With a tattoo at 14, and I was, you know, swearing as much as I swear now. And I was a full adult, and I had all this trauma. Like, full adult, but, like, you know, for that age. Yes. And I had all this trauma. And basically, they were, like, in, like, the friendliest way possible. They were like, okay, so we love you. You're not relatable.

[Alex Cooper]

And I was like, perfect.

[Dove Cameron]

Right? That's fair. And I believe you. And so, like, they did everything they.

[Alex Cooper]

Could to make me more relatable.

[Dove Cameron]

Like, God bless them. They were like. They were like, so we want to make, like, a music video and have your best friend in it. But, like, you know, they wanted to make me more, like, I guess, age appropriate, and so they did that. They were always very upfront about communicating about that. And I was very team player with, like, when I would do interviews, you know, I would give the answer that you would give if you were talking to kids. Like, that's really the thing that I think a lot of people get confused about with, like, who I was when I was on Disney and who I am now. They're like, there's a couple crazy contrast. And it's like. But no, because I walked into this contract being like, I'm on a children's network.

[Alex Cooper]

Right. You knew the formula.

[Dove Cameron]

If I went on and did an interview for Tiger Beat or Teen Vogue, and I was talking, like, how I do now, where I'm like. Like, that would be stupid and also inappropriate. Like, I'm 30 now. I can do it now. I could do it when I was 25 and forward. It's like, I. I am no longer on a children's network, even though they're syndicated forever, of course. But it's like, I think people think that it was, like, this crazy switch up, when in fact, I was just, like, a good employee.

[Alex Cooper]

This is the job.

[Dove Cameron]

This is the job. Yeah. It was never a lie. I'm just, like, not gonna swear or be naked or, like, I remember the first time I posted a picture in a bikini and, like, the Internet lost their minds. And I was like, okay, not yet.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah. They're like, never mind.

[Dove Cameron]

We're not there yet.

[Alex Cooper]

See you in four years. Yeah, we'll try again next year.

[Dove Cameron]

Really?

[Alex Cooper]

Which is why, like, wow.

[Dove Cameron]

It's funny because I still sometimes get asked about, like, how did you break out of your Disney role? Or there she goes, trying to break out of her Disney World. And I'm like, I literally, I actually, I think I try super. I wouldn't say super hard, but, like, I. I have no interest in bursting any sort of Disney bubble because I truly believe, like, that's over there, and those shows and movies live on forever. That's not me. And I'm over here doing this, and they don't really cross for me. And so I don't have any, like, desire to burst any balloons or illusions. I also think, like, there I see so much. Like, someone will bring up, like, a song that I've released, and they'll be like, that's Dove Cameron. And I'm like, great. So this. These people are over here knowing this, and these people are over here knowing this, and that's okay.

[Alex Cooper]

You've grown and you've evolved and you've changed.

[Dove Cameron]

You have the version of me that you want. Absolutely. That's for you.

[Alex Cooper]

Call her. Daddy is brought to you by Plan B. One step. Okay, Daddy gang. We know sex is great, but there is one thing about sex and life. Plan A doesn't always work out. So having backup birth control, like Plan B emergency contraception is always great because guess what? It is your body, your call. And plan B gets that it helps prevent pregnancy. Before it starts, take it within 72 hours after unprotected sex. Sooner you take it, the better it works. And if you're, like, just not ready for kids yet, don't worry, because plan B won't impact your future fertility. I love that for us, Daddy gang. So follow Plan B on insta at plan B. One step. Use as directed. Listen, I know it's freezing out there. I know the sun is setting atrociously early. I get it, okay? But hear me out. Just because you have to throw on a couple extra layers does not mean you can't live your best lives and crack a few claws with your friends. Do you hear me, Daddy gang? Okay, that means snuggling up in a booth at your favorite dive bar, warming up in the crowd of an epic concert, or having your friends over to watch sports. Listen, seriously, the best winter nights are really just about doing something together. And guess what I'm going to be holding when I'm doing that? A claw. Thank you, White claw. I have stocked my entire drink fridge, my bevy fridge, with white claws. Because I know it is a surefire way to have everyone getting whatever they want because you got all the flavors and then some. So, Daddy gang, you know the drill. Pick up a pack from your favorite local spot and grab life by the claw with your favorite flavor this winter. Please drink responsibly. Hard Seltzer with flavors White Gloss Seltzer Works. Chicago, Illinois when you were on Disney, obviously moving to Los Angeles, kind of also circling back to the conversation of you move away from home. Did you have a relationship with your father when you moved to LA and got this role?

[Dove Cameron]

That is a very good question and a very complicated answer. My dad and I, so my parents had split, but not, not, not for very long before we moved to la and we, my mom lived in like the tiniest apartment on Bainbridge and my dad still lived in our family home. And I wanted to go live with my mom in the new apartment because it was like really close to the ferry boat. And if I'm being honest, I could sneak out of the house and go see my friends. Like, I was like, sliding screen door. It was, it was in like our little, like, town area, you know, So I was staying there a lot. And I think probably retroactively, like, my dad felt like I was taking my mom's side. But then my sister kind of came home from college because she was like, I don't love this college. I want to be home. And there was a day where I was in my room at the family home asleep, and I was 13, 12, 13, like right before I moved to LA. And my dad wanted me and my sister to like, come eat breakfast in bed and listen to the radio or watch a movie or something, which, like, we were a very cuddly household. Like, it was very, like, come down in your PJs and be half asleep. And like, I made eggs kind of thing. And he was like, chloe, come down. And I was like, no, I'm sleeping. You know, whatever 12 year old answer you give. And he was like, you can be sleepy, just like come down and be sleepy down here because you're never here. So, like, come be with us. And I was like, okay. And I came downstairs and I got in the huge bed and I went to sleep and I got woken up because he had thrown me out of the bed and he was starting on some monologue about, like, you're so ungrateful, you, you don't even want to be here. You are trying everything you can to get away from me. Like, get out, get out of the house. And I think that was a really important moment for me because I had finally had it confirmed for me that I was not the thing that was making my dad upset. Because when I was younger I really, really blamed myself for any time my dad would get upset, it was my fault. That's what you naturally think as a kid. And in this situation I was asleep, right? I don't think I've ever told this story actually. I don't know, I can't remember, but it sounds like nothing. But for me it was a really big deal because I was woken up literally by hitting the floor and hearing all these things. And so my brain was able to like through adrenaline process, like I couldn't have done anything to cause this because I was asleep. He told me I could come down and be asleep. This is all happening in his brain. And so I, rather than leaving, I went upstairs to my room. I packed a little stupid bag of like any suitcase that I had and I was like, whatever 12 year old language I had that was the equivalent of like, like actually you. And I went downstairs and I called my mom on my like 20 flip phone that I had because I went to theater camp and I had to like be, I had to call them. I didn't have, you know, but I called her and I was out sitting on my suitcase and my dad came out and was like, wait, no, sorry, sorry. And I was like, no, absolutely not. Like, I'm cool on this, I'm good on this. I'm not going to be talked to you like that. I, I think I remember saying something to him that like I wish I didn't say but was like, you know, like we're blood, we're family. But like I didn't choose to love you and like I choose to separate from you because this is not healthy for me. You don't do it to mom, you don't do it to Claire and clearly I'm not doing anything to cause it. So like I'm not going to be your outlet. And so I went to go live with my mom and then when we finally, I finally convinced her to move to LA, like the crazy, you know, 12, 13 that I was, I was like, you're not gonna start over again. Like you just got divorced. Like, you know, there's so many more job opportunities and I love making shit up, right? I was like, please, you know, we said goodbye, we were like, we're just gonna do this for six months and then we're gonna come back. Like my dad was super concerned about, he was like, I'm really scared Hollywood's gonna chew you up and spit you out. Like whatever idiom he Used. And I was like, no, dad, I'm gonna be fine. And then I started booking things and my dad came out to LA to visit because he had some like a trade show to do because they were wholesalers. And so he brought like all of his stuff out and he stayed on our floor because again, not really making any money and he stayed on like a blow up mattress. And I remember, I think I have spoken about this, but it came out to be like, snuggle him and say goodnight and he rolled over and turned his back and was like, goodnight, Chloe, I think you should go to bed. And I was like, something bad's going on there. But like, I genuinely, I thought it was my fault. Like I genuinely just thought I had upset him by moving to la. Like I didn't know what was happening or that he was like purposefully distancing himself in that way. So I went to bed and I tried my very best to like spend extra time with him and like, lots of hugs, lots of kisses, lots of like, you okay? Like kind of stuff. And. And then he went back to Washington and it couldn't have been that many months after that that we got the call that he had. Yeah. Taken his life. Yeah. So it was a bit of a, like a blurry, weird time to say the least.

[Alex Cooper]

I'm so sorry. Because even hearing from the bed incident to then you trying to connect with your father, like there was so much clearly between the two of you, how you're describing it never really happened to your mom and your sister where you really were putting out bids for connection with him. And in moments he would take it. In moments he wasn't capable. Right. Of taking it because of where he was at. Mentally.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

You were always in the same place mentally.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

So you were always waiting and it kind of was always on his timeline and it was.

[Dove Cameron]

That's true, right?

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

I've never thought about it.

[Alex Cooper]

Like you were there always waiting for your dad and sometimes he would show up, oh my God, I'm gonna cry now. And sometimes he wouldn't. And so to have that last moment with him where you really tried and then to get that call, I, I can't even imagine who. Who. Did you get the call or did you. Mom? Like, how did you handle that?

[Dove Cameron]

Thank you for that, by the way. Because I actually very rarely have people be able to tell me something new that I haven't thought about. So that's really like, really helps me put it into perspective. Thank you. Because that's so the feeling. Right. And it's like. It's actually really hard to articulate that, so. Thank you.

[Alex Cooper]

You were the constant.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah. Which is exhausting. Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

And I think, like, you, you know, that's something that I really, like, I'm really happy that I grew out of, but it still shows up for me thematically. So, like, you kind of synthesizing that for me so perfectly is going to help me be able to tackle that. Is like, not always feeling like it's my job to be the constant. Yeah, it's a good one. Like the constant. 2026.

[Alex Cooper]

Stop being the constant.

[Dove Cameron]

Be inconsistent. Yes.

[Alex Cooper]

No, give them nothing.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you be fucking constant. Yeah. I don't know how to do that. No. But basic shit. Yeah, dude, bring it back.

[Alex Cooper]

Shit.

[Dove Cameron]

We found out in. In a really weird kind of layered way, because again, tight knit community. There was a woman who was like a kind of a. Like a linchpin, like a sort of a connection between my mom and my dad, who knew the whole family. And she had messaged me on Facebook, like, that's how long ago this was. And she was like, she'd never messaged me before, right. And she goes, hey, is your mom around? And I was like, stomach sank. And I just knew. I can't tell you why I knew, but it was not a normal interaction. She had no reason to be talking to me. I was, However, I was 15, you know, at this point. And I responded like, no, but she's gonna be home soon. And she said, okay. And then it was like, typing went away, typing went away. And she was like, please tell her to reach out to her brother or something like that. Like, please tell her to. It wasn't called her that person. It was like someone in the family. And my childhood best friend at the time, my other childhood best friend Carla was living with me, and we were like, watching cartoons. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm gonna remember this moment forever as the moment that my dad died. And we were in my bed laughing, watching cartoons. And my mom came home and she talked to her brother and she put him on speaker. And he was really breathless and, like, sounded like, you know, he was running, but I'm sure he was just, like, having a panic attack. And he was like, I just went to the house. I can't even remember what he said before he said the last bit. But Phil is no longer with us.

[Alex Cooper]

And.

[Dove Cameron]

I had a panic attack. Like, I don't know. Like, I. I had a panic attack because I. It's the most out of control feeling you can have is, like, the phone call. And actually, all three of my big losses have come via phone call, you know, like. Which I guess is pretty standard because, like, what's. You're gonna have it happen in front of you. It's a different thing. But I have, like, yeah, major phone anxiety, I think, because of stuff like this. Not to, like, get off topic, but I. It's such an alien thing to learn about something. So, like, there's a before this and then there's an after this over the phone. And, like, what the fuck is he gonna tell us? Like, what. How is he gonna phrase that in a way that, like, he can get through? And then my mom having to, like, look to me, and then my best friend who's there living with us, looking to me, and I'm looking at them and, like, I. I think I ran out of the room. I think I. Like, I couldn't breathe. Like, the brain just breaks. Like, that's really the thing they don't tell you about trauma. And actually, like, I think that's part of, like, people. People, when they watch movies, I think they get so accustomed to, like, oh, when someone dies, you're like, oh, my God. They pat. You go into this, like, animal mode. Like, you. You are fight, flight or freeze. You feel like you're gonna vomit your soul. Like. I don't know how else to describe it. It's like this horrible, inexpressible, fiery, painful, knifelike thing, and you're. All you're trying to do is, like, purge it, purge it, purge it. And it's impossible to purge.

[Alex Cooper]

I. I think that feeling is, again, like, something a lot of people are gonna relate to because I think, like, yes, death is inevitable, but you've experienced such sudden and unexpected loss that. I'm not saying one or the other is easier. It's just when something happens so unexpected, like, there is this shock and grief that are warped and wrapped together and not having time to say goodbye. And my God, the worst. Oh, like, you're. You're riddled with, like, so many emotions that you don't even know which one to tap into. So then you're just, like. You just. You're just, like, just there. You're just there and you're existing, and it's a horrible feeling. In the days and. And weeks after you got this news, what do you think for you was the hardest thing to wrap your head around?

[Dove Cameron]

Honestly, the way it happened? Like, because he took his own life. And I. I wanted. Like, I kept imagining. Because no one would Tell me how he did it. Like, I know that's really morbid, but I. I think I wanted to know. I needed to know. And. And then it was worse when I knew and. And they were right. But, like, I wouldn't. I would have. I was torturing myself, like, trying to imagine. And, like, I think honestly. And I'm gonna honestly try to stop crying because it's, like, a lot, but. But I think honestly, like, the thing that still plagues me, like, the thing that I'm still like. Because I can mostly, for the most part, talk about my life with a sort of a distance at this point. Like, I can be like, this is what happened. This is how old I was. This is how I processed it. This is the good things that came out of it. This is how it evolved me in this way. This is what I can be grateful for. Whatever. Like, I have enough distance. And also the body and the brain just shut down. Like, I don't know if anybody who's listening to this can attest or relate to the fact that, like, the body does not want to process everything at once. And so sometimes, like, your emotions, the valves just don't feel like they're on. So, like, I can talk about this like it happened to someone else. But sometimes the thing that, like. Like, I really wake up in the middle of the night, like a. Like, catch my breath kind of thing is. Is just imagining, like, his final moments alone where he was like, do I do it or not? You know, and, like, the. He didn't leave a note. You know, like, what's that thought process? Like. Or, like, you know, did he think, like, if someone had called, if. You know, it's that kind of thing where you're just like, could. Could it have been different? And. And what did that feel like for him? And. And did he know how loved he was? Did he feel loved? Was he. Was he mentally there? Like, dude, it's fucking. It's fucked. Dude, it's. It's really fucked. And I joke about my trauma because it's like, what else are you gonna do? But, like, oh, God. It's really the thing that. Like, it's really the thing that it really brings you back to earth and to what matters. And, like, it puts everything into perspective because I am so marked by death, and I'm so marked by loss. And there's a big part of that that I really appreciate because I feel closer to the people that I love and I love differently, and I. I live my life differently, and I. I'm not so scared about things that I might be scared about had I not had, like, the, you know, the comparison of the Mount Everest of loss. Right. Like, I. There's beautiful things that come out of everything. Does that mean that I wouldn't change them or take them all back? Like, no. I would much rather have these things had not happened. Like, have had these things not happen. But. But I. I do think that, like, you know, part of the things that I really love about myself and my life now are marked by just the sort of deepening that happens with grief and, like, the level of fascination and love and appreciation and bonding that I have with humans in general. Like, I think it's given me a kind of a. A comfortability with. With strangers and with people that I truly don't know or have no context of. Like, I think that there's a certain, like, veil that drops when you realize how deep. How deeply humans can feel pain. Like, to. To know that there is someone that you look at like a hero or a complex character and someone that you love and you worship, but the fact that they can be so sad and so lonely and so empty that they make the, you know, the ultimate decision is. Is something that it just. Everybody's so fragile, and I really walk around the world feeling that way. Right.

[Alex Cooper]

I agree. And I also think that's why, like, even speaking you. To you right now, it's, like, why I'm so appreciative of. Of my job is, like, I get to sit with people like you who I only have had at one point the privilege of watching on TV or listening to your music, and you can get so much from it. And. And we're gonna get to all of it in the new show and all of it. But what I think makes you then feel more connected to those people, especially with the Internet now, is, like, when people do have. Have the strength to share these kind of things, this isn't easy. Like, we're not, like, sitting here and it's like, oh, this is. Let's just tell this story so people can get to know you better. It's like, I'm also crying because I'm like, this is bringing up stuff for me. Right? And it's like, we're all so connected when you're saying these things. It's like everyone watching this will. Will. Yes. Feel more connected to you. But also it's therapeutic to hear other people talk about the heavy because we do convince ourselves in moments that maybe this is an isolated experience and maybe this is. And yes, all of Our experiences are unique to us, but the themes and what it brings up and the emotions that human beings experience of anger and loneliness and grief and happiness, sadness, all the things, we all go through it. So it's. It's helpful sometimes to talk through things because you are on at a different place in your life right now when you're speaking about it. Right. Like I said, if I interview you in five years from now, we may have a different conversation about this because you're going to live and you're going to experience and you're going to meet more people and you're going to then have a different perspective on life. But to kind of close out that chapter, because I think loss is something that people don't talk about enough. And I do think the way that.

[Dove Cameron]

Completely agree.

[Alex Cooper]

Right. And the way you just talked about it, I literally felt like I was just sitting with my friend because I've had. I've had conversations like this of the what ifs and had they not or what would. And all these things. This is the real. And I get. Movies have to do it a specific way. But this is. This is it. This is years later and this is how we're feeling here. And we're still grieving. And grieving isn't for a year and you're done.

[Dove Cameron]

Like, oh, dude, it's forever. It's forever.

[Alex Cooper]

It's forever. Yeah. You legally changed your name. Yeah. From Chloe to Dove. And from what I can understand, you tell the story, but the why and where did Dove come from?

[Dove Cameron]

My dad used to call me Dove as a nickname when I was a kid, Dovey and like, you know, little stupid things like that. It was never, like, like he would. There was when I was really young. I think it was more of a thing than when I got older, but it was something that, like, always felt, you know, like a me and him thing. Like personal, sweet, intimate. And so I think when I.

[Alex Cooper]

Got.

[Dove Cameron]

Older, I just wanted to feel like even. Even. Even before he passed, I was wanting to feel that connection with him. I was wanting to feel like his daughter. I was wanting a piece of him. And so I did that in honor of him and to feel more like everywhere I went, everyone was calling me what he used to call me.

[Alex Cooper]

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[Dove Cameron]

Let's get into it.

[Alex Cooper]

You referenced how all of these things obviously can impact your romantic relationships. And I obviously know that there's a little. Well, a big ring on your finger. You are recently engaged.

[Dove Cameron]

Yes.

[Alex Cooper]

I need to know how, through all of the experiences and whether toxic or traumatic or just not the right fit. How did you know he was the one?

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, God, I knew really early.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay.

[Dove Cameron]

I knew, like, way too early. I wrote a song about that, too. I was like. Like, I hadn't even told him I loved him when I was like, this is probably, like, if he's not the person I end up marrying, that's gonna, like, really break my heart, because my body and my mind and everything feels like that's what this is. So I was, like, super freaked out about that. Like, naturally. I was like, fuck, yeah. I really was. I was uneasy. I was really uneasy. And he also was in a very different place in his life. Like, he was not. I think he would feel comfortable with me saying he was not the happiest. You know, he was struggling emotionally and everything wise. And so he was also not, like, matching My level of like, oh, this feels like something really special. He was still, like, kind of an enigma. You know what I mean? Like, he was kind of behind layers of glass, but I was like. Like, I just have this feeling that whoever's behind these layers of glass is going to be someone very important to my life. And so we started dating in the most ridiculous way. We met at the VMAs, which is, like, the stupidest way you can meet your partner. Not because the VMAs are stupid, but because it's, like, one night only. Like, it sounds like a book, like a fan fiction, you know? Like, it's like we ran into each other in passing, and it was like. Like, it's so stupid. It's so dumb.

[Alex Cooper]

And then what did you do? Just, like, get each other's number?

[Dove Cameron]

No. Okay, here's something I want to go on the record.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, let's go on the record.

[Dove Cameron]

And I want to clarify a couple things. All right, we're done crying with time to be.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah, well, let's go. Let's go.

[Dove Cameron]

It's time to be serious. So we met for. I have to say, if I were to accurately estimate 14 seconds at the most.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay.

[Dove Cameron]

At the 20, you go.

[Alex Cooper]

I'm literally.

[Dove Cameron]

She's like. She's like, I'm tapping in.

[Alex Cooper]

I'm tapping in.

[Dove Cameron]

Drying your eyes. Getting rid of the salt water. I would say it couldn't have been more than 14 or 15 seconds at the 20, 22 VMAs. They. He is in a band called Manoskin, and they were up for an award. I was up for the same award. What you do cordially is whoever wins after you go, like, congrats, dude. So I won. And so we're backstage, and the backstage is. Is very small. It is. It is the size of like, a. I don't know. It's like. I don't know what to compare it to.

[Alex Cooper]

What accent are we going into?

[Dove Cameron]

If I say what it is, everyone's gonna tell me. It's not that. So it's East Coast.

[Alex Cooper]

East Coast. Okay. Okay. So.

[Dove Cameron]

It'S a small area. Like, it's like. It's like, the size of, like.

[Alex Cooper]

It's tiny.

[Dove Cameron]

Like, in front of a movie. Like, in front of a movie theater. Like the concessions day. Yeah, it's like that and, like, a little bit of standing room, and that's.

[Alex Cooper]

How small it is.

[Dove Cameron]

It's small. You've seen it.

[Alex Cooper]

We're rubbing shoulders.

[Dove Cameron]

It's small back there.

[Alex Cooper]

Tiny.

[Dove Cameron]

We're rubbing shoulders, and there's there's four of them. So I just won the award. I'm like, oh, my God, I want a vma. I come backstage, and they're naturally like, nice to meet you. Congrats. And I actually spoke with Victoria, his bassist, and she was like, congrats, girl. And I was like, yes, girl. Like, you're amazing. And then Ethan and Thomas were like, congrats. And then Damiana was in the back, so he barely looked at me, like. And he was also not giving off friendly vibes. Like, he was like. I was like, that guy hates me. All right, swerve. Like, I was, like, gonna go on with my night. Like, I met a bunch of people. Everybody's like, congrats. And I was like, I didn't think about it. It was not. There's this whole conspiracy online that I locked eyes with him and I was like, I'm biting my time. And I waited, like, a year and a half, and then I, like, struck, like. But that's not what happened. I met him. I literally met him for no time, guys. And then he was back there like this, and he was like, congrats. And I was like, oh, weird vibe. And I was like, nice to meet you. And later I learned he was just, like, in a really bad place. Like, it had nothing to do with me, but I took it personally. And I was like, weird. All right, bye. Okay, and this is the other thing I have to clear up. Dun dun. I'm like, what's the fucking, like, Cops music like? Dun dun.

[Alex Cooper]

I love the direct look to camera. You're like, hello.

[Dove Cameron]

Listen up, ladies and gentlemen. And everybody listening. There was this interview that they did where they were like, what celebrities have slid into your DMs? And Damiano, before I'd even, like, met him, I think. I don't know what the timeline was, because I don't know. When they did this interview, right? Was like, Dove Cameron. And now everybody's like, she was trying for.

[Alex Cooper]

No, no, no.

[Dove Cameron]

I looked back because I was like, what is this? I had posted and tagged them in a video performance of them for the I Heart Radio Music Awards. And I was like, cool band, right?

[Alex Cooper]

And then I was like, the new queen. And then you slide, and it looks like you DM'd.

[Dove Cameron]

But I think he was saying, that's like, sliding into the dms. Like, I don't think he thought it was like, who's flirting with you? He was like, who tagged you? Who interacted with you? Who DM'd you? That was it.

[Alex Cooper]

Meanwhile, people are Thinking you're like, hey, babe.

[Dove Cameron]

Well, especially because, first of all, I am nothing if not practical. Even if I think someone is maybe cute. First of all, I have never slid into DMs in a flirtatious way because I'm not good over text. And also, what if I don't like you in real life? What if we have this whole thing over text and then I meet you and I'm like, I don't like you. Like, I'm not gonna do that, you know? So, like, you can look back on my text record anytime someone has slid into my DMs scene. I'm not reply. It's weird. Like, catch me in real life. I don't know. Catch me in real life. Let's see if we have chemistry. So that didn't happen. I tagged them in something, and I tagged the band.

[Alex Cooper]

So is the Internet, like, making it seem like you're like, you were, like, obsessed with him for years?

[Dove Cameron]

Not the whole Internet, but there's a small section of people that always bring up. They're like, but she did slide into his dm. And I'm like, no.

[Alex Cooper]

You're like, guys, please leave me alone.

[Dove Cameron]

I fully didn't. And I also looked back because I was like, did I?

[Alex Cooper]

Right?

[Dove Cameron]

Because he said that before I, like, had really met him, so I was like, I must have. And it was because I had tagged them because I was so impressed by them. Of course I was a fan of their music. And then the 2023 VMAs roll around, and we had a reason to talk, and he was single, and I was single, and he was in a better place, and I was in a better place. And he was like, I don't know if you remember me. I'm Damiano. And I was like, yeah, I remember you. Like, you're so different now. Like, he was so friendly. And then he was like, do you want to come to our show at Madison Square Garden? And I was like, yeah. And then we just started dating, and now we're engaged. Like, it's. It's so. So innocent and simple, but it's amazing.

[Alex Cooper]

And it's so cute, too.

[Dove Cameron]

It's really.

[Alex Cooper]

It's really cute. It's really cute that it started that way now to be like, you're fully engaged.

[Dove Cameron]

Like, it's also so, like, I don't know, like, meet cute. Like, I look back and I'm like, all the different stars that had to align to make that happen fully, it blows my mind.

[Alex Cooper]

And it didn't just happen overnight. It Was just like. Like, low burn. But first, fully. Well, it was just like, all these.

[Dove Cameron]

Different ways that we almost just. But then we didn't. Until it was right. Like, that's what's mind blowing to me, because if I had met him before, I did in a way where he was interested in me and there was an opportunity for us to be dating, I would not have been ready because I was so depressed.

[Alex Cooper]

So, like, you weren't in a place to date?

[Dove Cameron]

No, I was, like, celibate. I was like, oh, that was the.

[Alex Cooper]

That was the. That was sabbatical hiatus that we discussed.

[Dove Cameron]

Celibacy era, where I was like, don't touch me, don't look at me. Don't come close to me. I'm not leaving my house. Like, I'm. I was like, dark night of the soul for a year.

[Alex Cooper]

And then you were ready.

[Dove Cameron]

I literally texted my friends, and I was like, I think I'm ready to date. One week later, he was like, nice to meet you. I was like, oh, my God. Wait a minute.

[Alex Cooper]

So then give us a little tidbit. How did it go down? Give me something. Okay. Give me something. Okay.

[Dove Cameron]

So it's actually very funny, and then, like, very sweet.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay.

[Dove Cameron]

Because.

[Alex Cooper]

So I'm obsessed.

[Dove Cameron]

It's. Honestly, it's. It sends me. Because if you knew him, this would be so. So cute and funny. But so he's a Capricorn, too.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay.

[Dove Cameron]

And he is, like, the most regimented, like, by the books guy. Like, he's like, there's one. There's a way that things should be done, and if they are not done that way, then it's wrong. And so we had talked about the fact that we wanted to get married. Like, I knew it was not, like, this big. Like, will.

[Alex Cooper]

He won't. He.

[Dove Cameron]

Like, I knew it was coming because he told me, like, he was like, I'm gonna propose. And I was like, really? And he was like, 100%.

[Alex Cooper]

So you knew?

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. But he'd been telling me for a long time. Like, I think he told me after, like, six months of dating that he was like, I'm gonna propose, but. But not for a couple years. And I was like, great. Do you. Yeah, I was like, love that also. I also was a little bit, like, maybe he won't. Like, he says that now. It's only been a couple months. And then at the top of, like, 2024, he was like, no, top of 2025. We were in New York, and he was like. We were both, like, crying, and he was like, I want to marry you. And I was like, I know, Me too. And he was like, nobody want to marry you. And I was like, I know. I. Like, we've spoken about this. Like, me too.

[Alex Cooper]

Right?

[Dove Cameron]

Same. And he was like, I want to marry you as soon as possible. And I was like, oh, okay. But, like, you have to go on your world tour. And like, at the time, I was also supposed to go on my world tour. And I was like, my. My show is gonna come out. Like, all this stuff's happening. We wouldn't be able to do it for two years. He's like, no, I think we could do it next year. And so, like, all. Every step of the way, I knew.

[Alex Cooper]

You were speaking about this openly.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah, because I don't think that that thing in the movies is.

[Alex Cooper]

I agree. You need to.

[Dove Cameron]

You grow up. And you're like, wait, well, and you.

[Alex Cooper]

Should, like, be an active participant in deciding if you want to get married.

[Dove Cameron]

Or, like, what that looks like, or do your values align or talk about.

[Alex Cooper]

It all before the future.

[Dove Cameron]

Like, would you want kids? Like, what about. How do you feel about where do you want to live? Like, you can enter into a contract. Like, just. You grew up with these movies as a girl. And they're all like, yeah, they're like, now I have to leave my apartment. It's like, wait, but it. Not to say that you should always live together, but you should at least experience what it's like to live with someone.

[Alex Cooper]

And you should be. In my opinion, you can be shocked by the moment he decides to do it, but you shouldn't be shocked that he's doing it.

[Dove Cameron]

I agree. Because like, all. In all these movies, it's like, that's my boyfriend. My boyfriend, my. Oh, my God, he chose me. And it's like, no, it's weird. I want to be in on this.

[Alex Cooper]

I said, dude, I did the same thing with my husband. Now. I was like, like, I'm ready. You can do it. Because he had been like, I'm ready. When. Whenever you're ready. And finally I turned to him at one dinner. I was like, you can do it.

[Dove Cameron]

I had it in his pocket.

[Alex Cooper]

I was like, I don't know. I don't want to know when it's happening. But you're. You can do it. Like, I'm ready. And then we were both talked about it for a long time before then it happened. So, like, I'm. We're on the same page again. Everyone has different ideas, but I'm on same page for me.

[Dove Cameron]

I just wanna. It's not that I don't like being surprised. It's just that, like. Yeah, it's. Again, it just feels practical. It just feels adult. Right.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay. So.

[Dove Cameron]

So I know it's coming, but I don't know when. And he. He's telling me things like, oh, we're starting to design the ring. And I was like, what does that mean? Like, does that mean it's two weeks away? Does it mean it's six months away? Like, such an amorphous concept. And so I start, like, telling a couple of my friend, like, I'm going into songwriting sessions, being like, guys, he's designing the ring. And they're like. So we're like. I'm like, what's the plan? Like, I'm not a girl girl. Like that. Like, what are we gonna do? And they. And they were like, you have to wear white every day. And I was like, you're so right, queen. Like, I gotta order all this white. And we were going on this vacation in August to Puglia. Did I say that right? Italians. I really tried. And. Which is, like a beachy Italian getaway. And I was like, this is what's gonna happen. I was like, we're going away for three weeks.

[Alex Cooper]

White.

[Dove Cameron]

Exactly.

[Alex Cooper]

I was like, white for breakfast, white for library. You're ready.

[Dove Cameron]

He's like, wow, you look so. Somebody said the other day, it's not funny. Someone was like, wow, babe, you look like you're about to join a cult. Like, it's like. It is true. It's so, like. It's so, like, you open your luggage bag and you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, dude. And also impractical for a vacation. Like, you're like, everything's fudgeing dirty. Yep. But I was, like, trying my best, like, every day. I was, like, learning how to use, like, bronzer. Like, I was like. I was, like, going in the sun and, like, doing, like, extra, like, little braids. You can go back and look at my TikTok. I was doing it.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, my God.

[Dove Cameron]

People will be like, oh, yeah. This is when she thought she was going to get proposed to. I was, like, trying. Trying to be girly vacation, you know, we're on, like, the one of the final nights. And he goes like, I know I'm not supposed to say this, but I'm just a little drunk, and I can't wait for you to see the ring. It's like a ring for a princess. And I was like, so it's not here. I was like, the ring's not here.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, my God.

[Dove Cameron]

And so I would. I didn't have a problem. I was just like, I want to be at least weird.

[Alex Cooper]

You want to.

[Dove Cameron]

Just want to be looking cute.

[Alex Cooper]

I get it.

[Dove Cameron]

So all this time's going by and I'm like, maybe it's this. Maybe he's gonna do it here. And my literally, like my manager who's in the other room, we were like guessing, being like, maybe it's Japan. You guys love Japan. I was like, that's true. But like, but he wouldn't want to do it in public. Lisa, we're trying to crack this code.

[Alex Cooper]

Like, I have to stop wearing white.

[Dove Cameron]

I was like, it's getting weird. I'm wearing so much white. No, but, but. So all the girls were like, huh? I was like, nah. So. So again, I was not in any hurry, but it was just like, like he'd been talking about it for so long that it was like a six month period that it could have been anytime.

[Alex Cooper]

Right? Okay.

[Dove Cameron]

So. So one day we're at home and I had said, baby, we talked about it like a year ago. That he was like, I always felt like it would be really romantic to propose, like doing something normal so that it's like, you know, this is like our life together. And I was like, yeah, I'm not really one for like, big outlandish. Like, again, I'm a Capricorn, so I'm like, if you throw me a surprise party, I'm gonna be like, oh, thank you. But it's not like how I would plan it.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

And so I was like, yeah, something low key. I agree. But like, you do you, like, I want you to be happy.

[Alex Cooper]

Yes.

[Dove Cameron]

Basically, we were, we were packing and I was in just a big T shirt, no makeup, My hair was like, damp. And it was so funny because I. He'd been finished packing, of course, because I was like, I'm always like trying to pack like a fucking. I like, I've never packed before in my life. And so I'm like running around. And I was in a particularly good mood. And he was in the hallway, like, watching me run in and out of rooms like a Tasmanian devil. And he wasn't moving from that spot. And I was like, I was like. At this point, he'd be like playing video games or like something, right? Like, I'm done packing. And so I came out again and I like, gave him a kiss on the cheek. And he did that thing. I don't know if your partner ever does this, but you know, you know when guys go, yes, that looks like, suddenly you're like, oh, God. And I knew. And I fucking knew. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because I was like, I gotta go put on a dress. I gotta go do my makeup. Like, I gotta do something. Because I had made him promise that, like, at least we would. We would try to take a photograph of the moment. And so I, like, panicked and I went into the other room and I was like. I, like, kept packing. And I was like, like, no, because I. Because I told him. I told him that I. I wanted to. I wanted photographic evidence. So, like, there's. There's not a photographer here. And I was, like, trying to, like. And he goes, babe. I was like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Because also, like, just right before someone proposes, like, your heart rate just goes through the roof. And he was like, can you come into the room, please? And I went into the living room, and he got down on one knee and I. Dude, I swear I'm not gonna cry. But I started crying immediately. I was like. Because he. It was so charming and sweet and kind and moving. Because he was like. He was like, I. I know that some girls want, like, rose petals and these big extravagant things, but I wanted to do it like this because I want you to know that I. The reason I want to marry you is because I want this life with you. I want dishes. I want laundry. I want normalcy. I want you in your big T shirt and your no makeup, and I want. I want a life life. And I choose this. I choose you. I hope you choose me. I hope you choose this. And I was like, you're like the white dress, dude. I was like, that's. I was so.

[Alex Cooper]

I mean, beautiful.

[Dove Cameron]

What more could you ask for?

[Alex Cooper]

You can't. That's. It's. That's the real in life. And of course, then if you choose to do a wedding and you want to do all the pictures and that's when that can come. And if you choose that.

[Dove Cameron]

But I was so wrong because it was so. It was so much more special the way that he did it and, like.

[Alex Cooper]

And real.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah. And that's so, like, who he is as a person. Like, he's so. I don't know. He really is the most normal, grounded, beautiful, smart person. And, like. And it. It's so. The funniest part was at the end when I go. Because of course, I'm like, yes, yes. And I'm crying and he shows me the ring, and I'm like, gobsmack, cuz.

[Alex Cooper]

Wow. It's so Beautiful.

[Dove Cameron]

I really couldn't have imagined. Perfect Rose Gold too. Like, what a guy. What a fucking guy.

[Alex Cooper]

Perfect.

[Dove Cameron]

And at the very end I go, by the way, I'm downplaying it. I was crying a lot at the end. I go, wait, but you said there was gonna be photographic evidence. And he picks up his phone and he's like, I was videoing. And so now we have this like minute long video of the proposal in our living room. And you see me like this and you see me shaking and him being like, oh no, it's too big. And I'm like, it's okay. They're always too big. Like, it's so beautiful.

[Alex Cooper]

It's so beautiful too because again, I think every couple like you. He knows you and you know him. And so you look back on that and we again back to the movies, we have these specific ideas and some people that actually the over the top is right. Some people, the more quiet. Like, it's, it's. You need to know your person and the fact that he knows you and he listened to you and he actually almost knew you better than yourself in that moment of exactly what he did wanted.

[Dove Cameron]

Well, he did because I was over in the other room being like, oh God, I look like no. And he was there being like, I, this is you, I choose. You know, it's.

[Alex Cooper]

It's so beautiful. And I'm also curious, you know, of everything we also have been talking about today. You've been through so much in your life and I think a lot of times when you meet a partner romantically, at some point you need to share with them what you've been through and who you are and how have you been able to share with him the moments in your life that have, yes, shaped you and made you who you are in the positives and also the traumatic things that have happened to you. And like, how has he met you where you needed to be met? Essentially.

[Dove Cameron]

Weirdly, with ease. Like, I, I told him everything about myself that I thought was make or break or that I thought was educational or that I thought was too much. Pretty immediately, like, I was like, I'm not going to be anything else for you. I've done that before. Here's absolutely everything. Even the things I don't want to admit to myself. Here's my mistakes, here's the things that I wish I did differently. Here's all the loss. Here's my things I still struggle with, which is like, do you sign on for this? And he was like, yeah, like, he just was like picked it up and put it on his back. Like he was. Oh, my God, it was so healing for me. And it continues to be right because, like, I'll never forget, actually, this was a big, important moment for me. We were watching Titanic for the first time because I don't think he'd seen it. Weirdly, it's like one of the classics he hadn't seen. And there's a moment at the very end when someone commits suicide. And I had forgotten about it because I hadn't seen Titanic in so long. But that happened. And I immediately. We were, like, lying in bed and this was, like, month four, like, early. And we'd been long distance for the first two months. And he had, like, his hand on my stomach and I was laying on his chest and we were watching this. And it was too early in our relationship for me to break the chill, you know, to, like, show true full trauma. But he just sensed my stomach go at that. And his brain went, oh, of course. And he changed his entire posture. He didn't ask me. He pulled me in. He, like. He started petting me. And then he reached up without even seeing and started to wipe away what he knew was gonna be tears. And at the end of the movie, he, like, let the air be open to be like, do you wanna talk about. Do you not wanna talk about that? And I. At the end, I was like, I wanna talk about it. And he has always been so intuitive, supportive, truly, like, unflappable, unshakable, and so ready to, especially with this, be like. I do not know. I cannot say the words that heal. But, like, he's. He's been. He's like a big. I think I've said this before, but like a big basin for all of these things. And because he only has the interest in not carrying it for me because he knows he can't but, like, loving me through it. He's. He's never wavered. Like, I've never once seen him be like, this is too much. I've seen him get frustrated when he can't help me, where he's like, of course I wish I could lift this.

[Alex Cooper]

For you and take it almost for you.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

But he's just the most evolved, beautiful young man. It's. It really still shakes me.

[Alex Cooper]

No. And I. I appreciate you sharing because I do know you guys are more private. But I think to all the people listening who've been on this journey with us today, I think when you hear and you know, you've been through so much in your life, and there's people that are going to be like, girl, I can relate on so many of these topics and themes. I think sometimes we can convince ourselves we. There's no way I'll find someone who can. The word would be handle this. Right? Handle it. And what you're talking about, actually, which is so beautiful, is. Is like, no, no, you don't need to push down your. The grief and the sadness and the things. You actually just have to find the right person who can be there to support you through it. They're not going to solve it for you or fix it for you. And you are worthy of finding your constant and that person that's going to be there for you, which you have found, which is so beautiful. And to everyone watching, if you haven't found that yet, it is coming. And don't shrink yourself or believe that you're too damaged or too up that you can't find it. It's just. It really is about finding the right person that can. You can merge your life with, that can handle that with you.

[Dove Cameron]

Yes. Yeah, I completely agree. I also think, like, some of my previous relationships were just bad matches. Some of them were trauma bonds, and me choosing to, like, continue on that path and not seeing all the red flags, and they were truly terrible. And so, like, I was looking at that as a sort of a proof that I was broken.

[Alex Cooper]

Right?

[Dove Cameron]

Whereas. And, like, I cannot choose love. I cannot. I cannot. I'm not worthy of a real love. And I am always going to pick someone who's going to harm me. Right. That was my narrative. And I know that's a lot of young women's narrative, women's narratives, you know, people's narratives is that, like, I am too broken to not only be loved, but then accept it. And so my choices for partner are always going to be people that sort of mimic where I come from. And I won't know how to ascertain that that's what's happening until it's too late. That was what I had thought. And then I spent some time alone, and I was finally ready to date someone. And when I say some time, it was like two years. Like, I spent, like, two and a half years being. Not only not dating or seeing anyone, but, like, really working through my shit so that I felt okay being alone so that I felt like I actually don't need a partner. So it can fall into that old, sort of like, just when you stop looking, it comes, you know? And it is true. And it is true. But I think part of that Rather than, like, it is energetic, for sure, because you're like, I am fulfilled. And so someone's like, ah, I feel. It feels like it's like it's a. It's a vibration that attracts. But it is also a bit scientific. Like, it's. It's a bit more not scientific. Logical, because it's like, I am not trying to take from you. I'm not trying to make you into a shape that you're not. I am simply here, and if it works, it works. And what's more attractive than that, you know, thing for me, too?

[Alex Cooper]

I also feel like. Let's talk about your new show because there's, like, weirdly, some themes that we've, like, discussed that you can like, kind of tie to the show. And there's just. There's a lot.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

So 56 days. You take it away and tell the people. Give us a little. Just like what this is about.

[Dove Cameron]

So 56 days, which no one realizes it's a title because they keep saying. They keep thinking. We're saying. It comes out in 56 days. It's called 56 days, and it is based on the novel by the same name. It's a. I guess I would call it like a. Like a pseudosexual thriller. It is a love story. Starts out as a love story.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah, I was gonna say it starts.

[Dove Cameron]

Out as a love story. It's a very, like, meet cute. Like, you know, boy meets girl in the grocery store. And it's like, you go first. No, you go first. Let's go for coffee. They have this very sort of innocent chemistry. They have this nice walk, and it's like, oh, I do this. I do this. Like, do you want to go for a date? Okay. Very charming. And then somehow between that day and 56 days later, one of them ends up dead in a bathtub, melted by acid.

[Alex Cooper]

Casual.

[Dove Cameron]

So the whole.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

As it does. As it happens, obviously, as all the best love stories do. So basically, the show takes place over eight episodes, and it is working in. It's a dual timeline. So our storyline is progressing towards day 56, and the. The police who are trying to solve the case are solving it all over the course of, I think, like one or two days. And they are retroactively solving the case. So they're going. We're going like this as they're. We're meeting them one.

[Alex Cooper]

It's so fun. And I also know you were. I think you kind of talked about how you were torn. Like, there's nudity in this.

[Dove Cameron]

Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

How did you decide you were coming comfortable?

[Dove Cameron]

You know, it was funny. It's. It's something that I was always aware that I was probably going to inevitably do. I don't know why I always felt that way. It wasn't like an aspiration. It was just like I grew up watching these incredible actresses do nudity. And I remember being like, wow, that's so brave and cool. Like, that's gotta be so. You have to be so courageous to do that. And I know somebody in the comments is going to be like, courageous. And it's like, yeah, courageous. It's so vulnerable. Like, I don't think, I don't think people really realize how vulnerable it is to be fully naked, period, on camera, but then fully naked simulating sex on camera in a room full of people. Like, it is harrowing.

[Alex Cooper]

And for you, rewind to what you said earlier of the first bikini photo you posted online.

[Dove Cameron]

People were like, like, yeah, no, I.

[Alex Cooper]

Thought that this is crazy. So it's like this to see. Yes. As a woman, to do this. It is, I agree, courageous. On top of that, having the Disney background, having people be familiar with you in one light to then, you know, grow up essentially and try something more adult. Like, it is, it's.

[Dove Cameron]

It's a kind of a crazy move. Yeah.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah. But I think, I mean, if it felt right, then that's all that matters for you, right?

[Dove Cameron]

I was like, so down for it. I was like, I don't really have any hang ups about my body or sexuality. Like, I've never found nudity to be offensive or even objectifying. Like, I think that when people say that nudity is lewd or crass or sinful or objectify, it's like, I do find there's a ton of internalized misogyny in that. Yes, I don't care. Like, I truly don't care.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay.

[Dove Cameron]

No, I don't care. Like, I see a naked woman and I'm like, wow, what a beautiful naked woman.

[Alex Cooper]

Right?

[Dove Cameron]

What a piece of art. I'm not like, she's cheap and herself. Or I'm not like, oh my God. It's like all of these reactions are so. For me, the reactions are actually the objectifying part. Right. It's not, it's not the actual act because naked bodies are an innocent thing. You are naked. You are naked under that.

[Alex Cooper]

Right? And you are making it weird. You are making it sexual. You are exactly.

[Dove Cameron]

What I will say about our show that I'm really proud of and happy with is that the sex scenes actually serve. They're much more tame, I think, than what I'm making them out to be, but they serve as a storytelling device because the sex scenes that are in the first couple episodes are not the same tone as the ones who are in the ones that are in the following episodes. And it's like you watch their dynamic shift and change in this very sort of intimate, vulnerable way that is more storytelling than a lot of other devices.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

For our show.

[Alex Cooper]

The Daddy Gang will love this. And I think also the deception as a viewer, it's, like, so fun to be like, I don't know what's happening right now. And the world that was created is so interesting. And so I'm very excited for everyone to watch it and also support you, I think. I'm sure after this interview, everyone that you know follows the show is going to fall even more in love with you, whether they were a big fan or they're becoming an even bigger fan today. I think it's really just exciting to hear where you've come from. That young little girl wanting to get into Hollywood, dealing with so much, getting into Hollywood, maybe, you know, starting on one path and then completely rebranding and getting to grow into another version of yourself that is different to the world and reintroducing that part of yourself to the world while also dealing with all of the. That you had to deal with as a kid that then you have to conquer as an adult, and then meeting the love of your life and finding your partner and finding your constant and. And having just so many moments of human experiences that I think is really beautiful. And then now to see you as an actress, obviously, and you taking on this role, it's. It's really, really cool to have gotten to know you today, because I feel like I got to. I hope it wasn't too. All over the place, but I felt like, in a good way, we were bouncing all around and. And learning about you as a human being. Not just Dove Cameron, the person that we have seen for so many years online and on tv, and it was beyond a pleasure. And I know we went deep, and I know we both didn't want to cry, but we did. And I can't thank you enough for going there.

[Dove Cameron]

Oh, dude, I'm so pleased. I'm obsessed with you. You're the second love of my life.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Dove Cameron]

My best friend's out.

[Alex Cooper]

We're done.

[Dove Cameron]

Thank you. 15 years of friendship over, just like that.

[Alex Cooper]

No, this was really cool.

[Dove Cameron]

No, you're so lovely. You're so smart. I'm really honored. I'm also like, very impressed by you. Like, and I'm not just saying that because you're right here, but like, I, I don't know, you have such a lovely energy. You're clearly so kind. You're so invested and you must spend so much time delving into other people's psyches and, and not only are you so good at it, but you have this like, well, of effervescent energy for it, which is really generous and I don't know, I was really pleased. I really, I think you're wonderful.

[Alex Cooper]

Thank you. And I am so excited to continue to follow your career and watch what you continue to do. And on a personal level, I can't wait to see if there's a wedding. Whatever you share, I will be following and engaged forever. No wedding. Perfect. Done. Thank you debate Cameron for coming on.

[Dove Cameron]

Call Her Daddy. Thank you.

[Alex Cooper]

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