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Hilary Duff: Life & Love After Lizzie
01:28:18
Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Hilary Duff. Hilary discusses on and off relationships, trying to do it all as a mom, and how to maintain intimacy in long-term relationships. She also sets the record straight on some of the most iconic 2000’s moments and reflects on her Disney Channel days. Enjoy!
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A
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B
with Call Her Daddy.
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A
Hillary Duff. Welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thanks. You've been busy. I know, girl, I know you have been busy. I know you're on tour. You have an album coming out. For the first time in 10 years,
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B
I feel like my friends are really sick of me. Actually on their feed, they're like, we don't ever see you. And now we do.
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A
Our.
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B
Like, Instagram is just full of you.
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A
Like, the Internet is Hilary Duff right now. Every single time I open Instagram, TikTok anything, I'm like, okay, Hillary, I get it.
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B
She's back.
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A
I get it. How are you feeling about it, though?
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B
Honestly, I'm enjoying it a lot, and I couldn't have asked for, like, a better welcome, you know? Like, everything has feel, like. Felt so, like, celebratory and, like, kind and, like. Like, energized. Like, I just. That's just, like, the word that I keep coming back to, where I'm like, wow, I really didn't realize it was such an appetite. And, like, I'm. You never know how it's gonna go. Like, I really took a huge break, and the. The, like, first steps have been like a dream, so. But it's super hard. And, like, the back half, that's not shiny is like, a lot of moving parts and a lot of scheduling and a lot of work and a lot of, like, you know, I have four kids and a family that I really like being with.
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A
So that's what I'm so excited to talk to you about today, because I think there's probably so many women who are like, we know we can't technically do it all, but. But it really looks like you're literally doing it all. Also, I thought it was funny. I was researching this morning, and everyone's kind of calling this, like, the Hillary Duff Renaissance. Like, every. They're like, she's back. In what ways for you has this kind of felt like a rebirth or, like, a reintroduction of you?
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B
It's this, like, combination of, like, forever. My husband and I were just like, this is going to be a sick victory lap. And we kind of kept calling it that. And it's really cool to be at this stage of my life and just have ownership over myself and, like, what I feel about things and my opinion and what I will and won't do and, like, not knowing and having to ask and, like, just this whole, like, I'm just so much better and, like, clearer and, like, to get to have the. The opportunity to go back and, like, celebrate things that, you know, I didn't feel like were mine anymore is, like, I'm just really looking forward to it.
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A
Can you explain a little bit more about what you mean by, like, you didn't feel like they were yours anymore?
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B
That it. See, it's kind of seems heavier than it is, but even, like, thinking about what my. My set list is going to look like and what songs I'm going to be comfortable putting on, you know, actually doing with my body on stage and. Or, like, singing lyrics of songs that are 20 years old and being like, what is. How do I. How do I show up and, like, just make this me? And I think before rehearsals, it felt. Felt like those weren't quite mine yet, and I didn't know how to make them that way. And then I was like. Just started tearing it up, and I was like, got it. I'm here to eat. And, like, it's easy, and I feel far enough removed from it that I'm not, like, embarrassed or uncomfortable. Like, it. They're mine and they're mine to keep. And, like, even the With Love Dance, like, that was like a. Like, the Internet lore around. The With Love Dance.
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A
So good.
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B
So good. But, like, for me, horrifying. Like, absolutely horrifying. But, like, now I'm like, this is. I get to be a part of it, and it's way more fun, which
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A
I think is life. Like, I've interviewed so many people that were child stars, and it feels like a pretty prominent theme in a lot of your lives is, like, having enough distance from that really, really loud time in your life that everyone remembers you from.
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B
To be, or just everyone can dig up.
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A
Yes, yes.
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B
Like, wow. I would. I would love for, like, it's just. It's a hard. You got to be tough, you know, because that is to grow up and have everybody to, like, recall all of your. All of your, like, chapters is a wild experience.
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A
And have footage and pictures and commentary seats, tabloids, like, everything. You could imagine that, like, everyone when they were in their awkward middle school phase that were like, thank God. God, like, I didn't post that picture. You're like, well, it was posted of me. I didn't have an option. Correct. And I feel like what's so underrated is, like, you have had decades of sustaining a career, which is. Very few people are able to maintain that.
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B
I feel like that's really nice. And there's been a lot of highs and lows in my career.
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A
Okay, well, we're gonna go through all of them. But I did want to just. I was gonna quote you because I'm like, I get it. Like, you've done moments where you're kind of, like, more in the spotlight versus not. But you told Vogue last year that you operate from. Of. Does anyone still care about me? I wanted you to talk a little bit more about what you meant by that.
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B
I think there being a child actor and doing something that made such a big mark on people's, like, literal soul created a lot of confusion and, like, a pretty big battle scar on me where I'm like, do people feel that, like, playing a role on TV that never grows up, like, she's just there forever, Right? And so getting into my, like, late teenhood, into, like, my early 20s and even, like, early 30s, where I feel, like, the battle of, like, frustration that, like, do people love me or do they love that character? But yet everywhere I go, people, you know, say, you raised me or, like, whatever, and, like, now I'm, like, confident enough and, like, fine enough, and I think I love my new work enough to where I can, like, celebrate the old. You just feel like, wow, will I ever do anything that will, like, resonate with someone the same? And then you carry that as, like, a, you're not good enough or it wasn't you know, but meanwhile, like, I've had an amazing career. Like, younger was career highlight.
- [08:10]
A
Love that show.
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B
Love that show. So fun, so good. People didn't really find it until it was, like, done. But, like, that was a huge part of my something that I said yes to. That was really scary because I had to, like, be in New York and be away from my child and, like, but, like, a huge growth period for me of, like, oh, I'm doing something good. And, like, stop measuring. Like, I don't have to continue to measure all of my projects and the success that they've had.
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A
It's interesting you say that because I feel like some musicians I've talked to, if they had a number one hit ever come out, then they're like, yeah, because you come out of the gate so strong, which a lot of people are envious of. But you're like, but now that's kind of the barometer of, like, where I have to hit and having a Lizzie McGuire moment. You're like, change your life. Change so many other people's lives. But now it's like, I hear what you're saying. You're like, can I ever live up to that?
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B
Yeah.
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A
Which is why I think this era is so exciting for your fans.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Airbnb. I have been so happy because Matt and I just got back from a trip together and we booked through Airbnb. And let me just tell you something. Matt and I knew really all we need is a hot tub, a king size bed, and our dogs. And we found a dog friendly place. We got a hot tub. Also, there was a fireplace, which I loved, and I was so, so happy. Daddy. Gang, this is your sign that booking a stay on Airbnb, it just makes your trip better. You get to explore these new cities. You get to feel like you're a local. You can immerse yourself. You can also go to local grocery stores, and then you can cook in the kitchen. If you get a House with Friends partner. I just love it so much because I think this, at this point in my life, I want to immerse myself in new cultures. And if you don't really know where to go or what you're looking for, I highly suggest checking out the Guest favorites feature, which is basically a collection of the most love homes on Airbnb. That's how Matt and I personally found our home that we went and stayed at. I think it's just so fun to see how other travelers enjoyed it and they leave reviews and you can see what people loved about it and why it would be great for you. So your next great trip starts with a great place to stay. Whether it's a beautiful apartment in the middle of the city or a chic winter escape, Airbnb has a place for your travel story. Call her. Daddy is brought to you by A Diamond Is Forever. You are not the same person you were last year. And that's literally the point. Life is about growth, Daddy gang. Okay? Life is about change and becoming more of who you're meant to be. And when it's time to mark that growth, the way you choose to honor the moments and milestones that make you who you are should reflect, you know, you. That's where desert Tone diamonds come in. Okay. Desert diamonds are the perfect way to celebrate all that you are and all that you're still becoming. They come in a range of unique, unexpected colors. Colors that reflect your unique, unexpected journey. Warm whites, pale champagnes, deep amber, smoky whiskeys. Natural colors that are truly unlike anything that you've seen. I think everyone nowadays, it's like, you want to be unique. You want to have things that not everybody has. Right? And so, Daddy gang, you deserve this. This year, discover desert diamonds and give yourself something as unique as you are. And that's why A Diamond is forever. Visit a diamondis forever.com to learn more. Basically, today, I'm like, we need to give a little nostalgia, of course. And then, though, I do really today want to get to know you more as the woman, Hilary Duff, because I agree you've talked so much about your younger years.
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B
I love to visit her now. I'm good with it.
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A
Okay, let's go back to people who may not be familiar. You initially get the role of Lizzie McGuire. Can you just, like, kind of lightly tell the story of how that audition went and how you even got the role?
- [12:03]
B
Yes. So I actually had been replaced off of a TV show that was an ABC show, and they replaced me with twins so they could, like, work longer hours. And I was like, yeah, I was probably 10 years old, and I'm like, I got fired. Like, can you imagine?
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A
Because they're not two of you.
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B
Yeah.
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A
That is.
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B
By the way, when you're a child actor, you're like, you need two of me.
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A
Okay.
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B
How do I make that work? Like, you're like a dog. Like, just want to please, you know? So that was really devastating. And I was like, I want to go home. I don't want to be in LA anymore. I went back to Texas, started going to real school. And my mom called me and she was like, they want to see you for Lizzie McGuire. And I had auditioned for a bunch of Disney Channel shows before, so they were, like, familiar with me and called me a lot. I never booked any of them. And I was like, no, whatever. And somehow I got out to California. They like, I changed my mind. I. I got to see my friends for the weekend, like my Oakwood apartment, LA friends. And I was not prepared. It was a pretty big monologue, the. The audition. And I used to be pretty prepared and take auditions seriously. And I was like zero percent prepared. And Robin Lippins, the casting director, was like, you didn't even look at this. And I was like, correct.
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A
Like, sorry.
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B
She's like, can you come back tomorrow and know this? And I was like, oh, challenge accepted. Let's go. And I worked on it. Came back ripped in there, as you should. She was like, what are your special talents? I was like, oh, I prefer to walk on my hands more than my feet. Like, I think I was just wacky. And they were. And like, I think I came in with, like, mismatched clothing because that was very me. And then I got it.
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A
Wait, and how old were you when this was happening?
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B
I think I must have been like 11, turning 12. Or had just turned 12. And then we shot the pilot and then didn't shoot for a while. So I remember, like, not getting my hopes up. I remember my mom being like, don't get your hopes up. Remember, like, what can happen? Like, it's exciting, we're gonna be excited. But like, not getting fired at like
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A
10 years old from a job at first, like, that'll scar you. You're like.
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B
Or being the star of the TV show. This TV show is literally called Lizzie McGuire. And you're like, hope it gets picked up. And if it doesn't, like, I'm failing, probably. I sucked. Yeah.
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A
Oh, yeah. Like, no pressure. As an 11 year old, basically 12. How do you think playing Lizzy as it continued, like, started to kind of shape and inform your personality?
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B
I think that she was kind of like the everybody's girl. And I also feel like I've always been that, so. And also, like a little. I have this very weird mixture of like, I've always been confident in who I am, and I think that she had that. But she was also, like, kind of dorky and had all these. She didn't really fit under one category. And, you know, that's why I think she was so, like, lovable and endearing. And I feel like I've also still kind of carry that, but I just can, like, dress chic sometimes.
- [15:23]
A
You're like, my fashion has gotten better. Thank you very much. Lovely you, Lizzie. But I moved on. Okay. You can say over there I actually look chic as you do. Obviously, I'm thinking about you even just being like, oh, my God, like, growing up in Texas and all this. Like, then the show becomes a massive success, and you quickly become one of the most famous young women in the world at the time. Like, do you have any core memories of realizing, like, oh, my God, I'm now, like, famous? Like, people know me?
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B
Yeah. I was at the Fashion Square Mall, like, about to hang out with my friends, which we did all the time. And there were Beverly center, too. There was, like, posters of Lizzie McGuire on the, like, circulating things. And I get, like, mobbed by kids, and, like, somebody that works at the mall, like, sticks me in basically, like. Like a cleaning closet or, like, some. Some, like, closet where they keep supplies or, like, and just, like, pulls me into the back and they're like, you need to call your mom or call someone to come and pick you up.
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A
Yes. Hey, mom, we forgot that, like, I'm basically famous now.
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B
I'm in the broom closet of the mall. Like, can you come get me?
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A
I'm trying to act like a normal girl, and it's not working out for shit. Yeah. Wow.
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B
I know.
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A
And then after that, did you realize, like, maybe I can't go those.
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B
But then the other thing that was happening was, like, it wasn't that cool to be a Disney kid yet. Like, now you're a Disney kid and you have, like, this massive career that wasn't really. It's not like you had, like, mad respect because you had a Disney Channel show and you were, like, starting to be a singer. Like, that was pre everything.
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A
Talk to me about your life at home. You become this big star. Like, how did it impact your normal life at home?
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B
Honestly, it didn't until later. Like, some things changed later, but, like. But my mom was pretty strict. She. She had this, like, weird combination of, like, she trusted us, but she was like, you don't get special treatment because you're on a TV show. You know, like, we had been. We had been out here kicking around for, like, four years pre me getting Lizzie McGuire. So, like, she would. I remember she would, like, take my cell later when I was, like, 18. I remember she tried to take my cell phone away, and I, like, sassed her so bad, and I was like, I pay the bill. She was like, absolutely Not.
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A
She's like, sit down. You're like, okay.
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B
Yeah.
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A
I feel like there's kind of, like, this known reputation you have as one of the few child stars who escaped the major pitfalls of Hollywood. Do you feel that way? Like, do you feel like you got out pretty unscathed?
- [18:08]
B
Yeah, I think that there's no. I think that people look at me and think, like, oh, she's had it easy, maybe. And I definitely have not had it easy, but I feel okay. Like, I really just feel okay. I'm like, I did not, like, go crazy, I guess. And I think that a lot of that could have to do with my upbringing and feeling, you know, like, I was protected when I was a child. But this industry is, like, really fucking hard. And it's not until you're like, you take some space away from it that you can zoom in and be like, oh, that was a weird thing that happened. Oh, that was. How did I get through that? You know, there's that. And I think it's taken getting to this age to be, like, give myself, like, actually take some credit for how I navigated it.
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A
What do you think for you internally? Like, not all the noise, not all the people around you. What internally did you have to tap into to kind of get through that period in your life?
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B
So it's tricky. And again, it's been something that I've been able to, like, dive more into through, like, therapy and really being like, well, why did I do that? Or how come I feel this way? And if I. Whatever. Like, the thing that was also cool about it is being a teenager, and you're like, I don't give a. I just want to hang out with my friends, you know, Like, I had a desire to just be, like, normal and be doing normal kid things or teenager things and adult things. So it was this weird. Those things were, like, existing at the same time. And I think it was, like, a reprieve from not being able to, like, fully grow up or take the reins. Was, like, just escaping with the normal part of my life that I could go to.
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A
Yeah, that makes sense. You kind of have to, like, find your outlet.
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B
Yeah. And I, like, you know, cared about my boyfriend and just, like, all that other stuff was annoying to me.
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A
Yeah. And then eventually you would deal with it.
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B
I did.
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A
Okay, let's go through. We're about to move on from this younger phase of your life, but I do need to know a couple things.
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B
Okay.
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A
Are you ready? Okay. You're like, I don't know. What are you about to ask me. Okay. Did you intentionally crash the Freaky Friday premiere?
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B
Oh, my God.
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A
The lore around this Hillary,
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B
I think absolutely, yes. Yeah. I was a teenager.
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A
Wait, were you surprised when Lindsay Lohan showed up to the Cheaper by the Dozen premiere?
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B
No. No. I mean, that was, like, my childhood feud. Like. Like Nemesis.
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A
So crazy.
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B
I know. Which, I mean, I can't believe. I'm sure my publicist would be like, what the fuck are you doing? But now it's so many years later. Like, who cares? It does not matter. Also, like, Lindsay came up to me at a club once and was like, are we good? And I was like, we're good. She was like, let's take a shot. I was like, okay.
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A
It was amazing.
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B
But also, like, Chad Michael Murray invited me. Why would he. I don't want to start any more stuff. But, like, he was like, you should come with me. And I was like, mm, probably I should.
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A
Honestly.
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B
I mean, what was I, like, six? No, I think I was younger than that.
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A
The millennial girls are screaming at their TVs right now. Next. Is it true that you had military training for your role in Cadet Kelly?
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B
Yes.
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A
They really took it that serious?
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B
Oh, yeah.
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A
I just need you to know that I literally bought.
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B
I think I could still do, like, a rifle that. You got a rifle around here?
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A
Oh, no.
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B
But no.
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A
You remember?
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B
I think I would remember some of the, like, tap, tap how you, like, handle it and, like, flip it around. And it was basically like baton, kind of, but with. Well, there was baton ribbon in that.
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A
There was batons.
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B
Oh, yeah.
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A
Oh, I remember.
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B
Yeah. We were at a dance studio in Toronto. I remember. And, like, Christy Carlson Romano and I would, like, walk from this hotel that they put all the, like, actor kids up in in Toronto and go to this, like, dance studio down the street. And it was really intense.
- [22:37]
A
That movie was.
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B
So we're doing our own stunts.
- [22:39]
A
Girl, it was so good. I remember I, like, bought cargo pants and, like, was trying to be like, that vibe. And I was like, what am I trying to do? Like, I was in Pennsylvania, like, literally trying to be you. And I was like, I need to stop. Okay, next. This is one of my favorites. You had an on screen romance with Penn Badgley in Gossip Girl. I will never forget where I was when I found out Ms. Hilary Duff was going to be in season three of Gossip Girl. I was shook.
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B
Season three?
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A
Season three. I know. I looked up because I forgot there was, like, 90 episodes per season. How were you approached for the role? And, like, why did you want to do it.
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B
I was approached by the creators of the show, and they were just like, we would love to have you on Gossip Girl. And I was like, I love Gossip Girl. And yes. And by the way, I grew up with Penn Badgley.
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A
You did?
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B
Yeah. So I grew up at this, like, apartment complex called Oakwood Apartments, and he was a lakeside kid. But sometimes we would, like, all hang out. It'd be like if you went to Campbell hall, but someone goes to Oakwood, and you like, all.
- [23:40]
A
And was this, like, little actor vibes or just like normal kids and you just happened.
- [23:44]
B
Some kids were normal. Most of them were actors.
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A
Okay, so you were like. You knew him immediately when you stepped on set.
- [23:50]
B
Yeah. But honestly, that was a tough. I think they were kind of all sick of each other by the time I got there. It wasn't like, oh, my God, we're hanging. It's fun. I was like, oh, I'm showing up to a job, and.
- [24:02]
A
Right. You're like, tension is pretty high right now.
- [24:05]
B
It felt pretty high. Yeah.
- [24:06]
A
We need to talk about the threesome that shocked the worlds. Because when I tell you that threesome, I was like, to those who don't remember, it was Dan, Vanessa, and you.
- [24:18]
B
Yeah.
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A
And the world was so pissed. Do you remember the world got really pissed.
- [24:21]
B
No.
- [24:22]
A
Because they were trying to force the Dan and Vanessa romantic vibe, and we were like, stop trying to make it happen. It never should happen.
- [24:28]
B
Oh, okay.
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A
And then I think you were in the threesome, like, hanging out in the corner, and Dan wasn't like. He was going for Vanessa more.
- [24:35]
B
I need to rewatch this.
- [24:36]
A
I was gonna say, do you know? Can you tell? I've watched this, like, a million times.
- [24:39]
B
Amazing. I was getting, like, the shaft.
- [24:42]
A
You were getting the shaft? Because it was like, Dan and Vanessa, like, finding their romance. And you were like, dan, like, why am I even here?
- [24:47]
B
You're like, I'm the famous one. Wasn't I like, a famous actor?
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A
You were a famous girl in it.
- [24:52]
B
But I have to tell you something funny that happened. And sometimes this happens when I'm in Europe, and, like, Lizzie McGuire happened later after my music in, like, Europe. Oh, yeah. And so I wasn't, like, totally known for Lizzie McGuire there right away.
- [25:07]
A
Okay.
- [25:07]
B
It was more like my music stuff and then some people. I think Lizzie McGuire got huge there eventually. Whatever. I was in Paris not too long ago on a girls trip with two of my best friends, and my bag didn't make it. And the girl at the airport was like, are you from Gossip Girl? And I'm like, yeah. And I get obsessed when things like that happen. So sometimes, like, weird Gossip Girl fanatics.
- [25:35]
A
Wait, that's so good. Isn't that funny? You must be so happy in that moment. You're like, yes, I am from Gossip Girl. I don't remember what my name was. I don't remember what my lines were, what my scenes were, but I don't There.
- [25:46]
B
I don't remember what my name was.
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A
So fun. Dude, that fandom is so.
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B
And I was like, so can you get me my bag quickly? Yeah.
- [25:52]
A
Because I was like, in Gossip Girl, like, is that Lizzie McGuire? You're like, no, no. Gossip Girl. Honestly, so good. Okay. I heard that the actor who played Ethan Craft invited you to his high school formal in real life. Did you go?
- [26:08]
B
Yeah.
- [26:09]
A
Okay.
- [26:09]
B
I went to a lot of high school formal formals.
- [26:12]
A
And at that point, you're famous. How did that work?
- [26:16]
B
The school was really excited that I was there, and I was just like, yeah, I'm excited to be here. I didn't go to high school or middle school.
- [26:24]
A
You're like, I'm taking it in.
- [26:25]
B
Yeah. I'm like, look at all these people grinding on the dance floor. Me too. Let's go.
- [26:30]
A
Did people leave you alone?
- [26:32]
B
Like, I think enough.
- [26:33]
A
And also, you going with the Ethan Craft character is kind of a mind. Because people were probably like, we went
- [26:38]
B
as like, a group.
- [26:39]
A
Okay, so it wasn't like.
- [26:40]
B
No.
- [26:40]
A
Okay. And did you guys ever have a thing behind the scenes? Okay, no. Ethan wasn't your vibe, but he did
- [26:46]
B
have a parrot that scared me at his house. Like, okay, yeah. I showed up to the house, and, like, I didn't know that. I was, like, standing behind a job, giant birdcage, and the parrot, like, literally punked me and was like, boo. And I was like, oh, my God. And, like, the parent parrot, like, knew how to, like, scare Ethan.
- [27:01]
A
Good old Ethan. I only. I'm like, ethan. Ethan and Kate. Okay. Were you and Aaron Carter already dating before his cameo on Lizzie McGuire or did that, like, bud on that set?
- [27:13]
B
We weren't dating. Also, this is where, like, all this stuff started. There was no social media to be, like, who was dating who. Right?
- [27:23]
A
Yeah. Yeah. No, no.
- [27:24]
B
So you just take people's word for it and then, like, people get mad at you.
- [27:27]
A
Wait, why?
- [27:29]
B
I mean, if you're, like, Lindsay Lohan or me, and he's, like, probably dating both of us, like, you know what I mean?
- [27:34]
A
I see. I just. See, like, you couldn't just put up an Instagram story?
- [27:38]
B
No.
- [27:39]
A
Well, we're clarifying now.
- [27:40]
B
Also, texting was, like, pushing three buttons T9 to get the, like. Yeah.
- [27:45]
A
Oh, my God. You and Cinderella story. Like, hey, what's up?
- [27:48]
B
Today I just filmed, like, a social.
- [27:50]
A
Like, one of the, like, a TikTok.
- [27:53]
B
Yeah. Of that doing something for something else. And I'm. We're sitting there trying to get the LOL to come up, and I'm, like, swiping at the screen, and someone was like, you need to stop doing that.
- [28:04]
A
What?
- [28:04]
B
This, like, old phone, cell phone.
- [28:06]
A
To get LOL, you have to be like, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 4. But it's so crazy.
- [28:11]
B
I called my son downstairs who's 13, and I was like, I just want you to watch what this used to be like for us.
- [28:16]
A
He said.
- [28:16]
B
He was like, I don't care. He's actually so sweet. And he. If he doesn't care, he acts like he does.
- [28:22]
A
You're like, look what mommy had to do. That means, like, we were dedicated. If you had a text that you wanted to send on T9, I know if you sent a paragraph, you were in love with someone.
- [28:31]
B
No, I know. It was like, that was a lot of effort.
- [28:33]
A
That was a lot.
- [28:34]
B
And what about when you would make a typo and, like, have to go and then you're, like, back and the whole thing.
- [28:37]
A
No, no, no, no. There was dedication through and through.
- [28:40]
B
Okay, so sorry. Back to Aaron Carter.
- [28:41]
A
Yeah.
- [28:41]
B
I had met him at his birthday party. I got invited to his birthday party. I'm telling you, the Olsen twins were there. Who else would have been there? I thought it was gonna be, like, this huge list. I could get you excited by, like. But it was the Olsen twins.
- [28:56]
A
Okay. Yeah. So that's all that matters. Me. We're, like, happy.
- [28:59]
B
Maybe Amanda Bynes was there. Oh, yeah. I mean, it was like the OGs.
- [29:05]
A
Oh, my God.
- [29:05]
B
On his birthday. So I met him there. There was, like, some cute sparks. And then I think I pitched the idea of having him come on the show. And then. Right. We started dating pretty soon after that.
- [29:17]
A
I need everyone to go re watch because I just did it this morning while I was putting my makeup on. The I want candy moment where you and Miranda are in the corner, and you keep doing this thing where you're, like, putting your hand in your hair.
- [29:30]
B
Why?
- [29:31]
A
You know, it's so good because you can tell you, like, kind of like him, and he's like, I want candy
- [29:36]
B
in a full silver jumpsuit.
- [29:38]
A
Full silver jumpsuit. Your hair's like. And then your hair's all crimped. Crimped. Crimped. And you keep going like this when he comes over to you, Hillary. It's actually, I. It's like an actual landmark on the Internet. Like, I need everyone to go watch it because it's so cinematic. Also. It, like, holds up. It was amazing. Okay, good to know. Okay, last. Last one Lizzie McGuire movie. It's important that you know, like, to this day, peak cinema. Peak cinema. Like, also back to you getting fired for not being a twin. Hi. Hello. You got your revenge because you ended up playing two characters.
- [30:14]
B
Yes. My four year old is very like, how. But how. How did you do that? I'm like, you're like, don't worry.
- [30:21]
A
Okay, wait, so they. Have they seen the movie?
- [30:23]
B
Yes, My four year old just watched it on a plane. I know. And when it was over, she just goes, I. She was sitting next to my assistant and she was like, again.
- [30:34]
A
No, all of us. She's literally all of us again. Do your other kids like the movie?
- [30:41]
B
Banks is like a Lindsay Lohan Stan.
- [30:47]
A
No. Yeah.
- [30:48]
B
No, honestly, Banks is like my number one, like, cheerleader to the max. So, like, she obviously, like, doesn't know any of that stuff. I know. So it's.
- [30:57]
A
It's actually amazing.
- [30:58]
B
Yeah.
- [30:59]
A
What is their favorite project of yours?
- [31:01]
B
I've not asked that. I don't know.
- [31:03]
A
You don't know?
- [31:04]
B
No.
- [31:04]
A
Have you showed them everything? No.
- [31:06]
B
I'm not like, let's go down. Sit. Everybody sit down. Stay away.
- [31:11]
A
I forget that it's, like, not cool of a mom to be like, now let's watch my next project. But for me, I'm like, they haven't seen Cheaper by the Dozen.
- [31:17]
B
I think Luca probably has seen Cheaper by the Dozen. I think he was probably more interested in that because it was like boys and frogs and, like, football and, you know, things like that. But they've seen some of it. My same assistant put on, like, bunk'd the other day.
- [31:36]
A
I know.
- [31:36]
B
And I was like, you should probably be putting on Lizzie McGuire.
- [31:39]
A
You're like, what are you doing? You're like, you're a traitor. What is this Turn on Cinderella story now? Oh, wow. Okay, well, we need to know when they actually.
- [31:47]
B
My 4 year old has seen parts of Cinderella Story, and she's basically like, can we just get to the end with the dress? And she doesn't understand the mask and how he didn't recognize me with that mask on. I know.
- [31:57]
A
He's like, that's you, mommy. And you're like, yeah.
- [31:59]
B
She's like, but how would he not know And I was like, no, I know. That's the age old question. Babe.
- [32:04]
A
That's the best part. That's the best part of the whole thing. Okay. Thank you for going down memory lane with me. That was very fun. You gave us all we needed to know. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Intuit TurboTax taxes can feel daunting. I'll be honest, when I got out of college and in my 20s, I literally had no idea how to do my taxes. I had to go to my dad and I begged him to help me. But with Intuit TurboTax, you can now match with a dedicated Turbo tax expert in person at one of their new state of the art store locations. They will help you connect your account via the Turbo Tax app to automatically import all your documents. No more stressing over paperwork. Then your expert can take taxes fully off your plate and update you every step of the way in the app while you can go about your day. So Daddy gang, while you are, you know, maybe you're single and you're trying to get back on the dating apps, right? And you're trying to, you're trying to focus. You're trying to focus to find that man. Or maybe you want to spend more time with your friends or maybe you want to sleep more. I don't know, maybe, right? Yeah, like let's all sleep more. You can be doing that and your taxes will be getting done in the background as your TurboTax Extra expert fights for your best possible outcome. Plus, TurboTax Full Service experts are available on nights and weekends during tax season if you have specific questions so expert help fits your schedule, not the other way around. Take control of tax season by Getting started with TurboTax today and get your taxes done on your terms with zero guesswork. Head to TurboTax.com to find out how you can connect with a full service expert near you. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp Daddy gang. Sometimes I feel like your love life and romantic relationships, it can be a lot, right? There's so much pressure that we put on ourselves and February is the month of hearts and roses and chocolates. But no matter where you are in your romance journey, single dating or just focusing on you therapy can be a very helpful way to sort through it all. Signing up for therapy with better help can help you find your way by understanding what you want from a relationship and taking some of the pressures off yourself. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform and handles the initial therapist matching work for you. Just Take a short questionnaire to share your needs and preferences. And thanks to Better Help's industry leading match fulfillment rate, they usually get your match right the first time. You can also feel confident knowing Better Help therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully qualified. Everyone is still finding their way. Find yours and feel lighter. Sign up and get 10 off@betterhelp.com daddy that's better. Hp.com daddy I mean, you started working so young. You were like 11 years old and you lived so much life at such a young age. How did that impact what you were looking for and what you were ready for in your 20s?
- [34:54]
B
Oh, gosh. I was. I was always like a relationship girl. So I was in like long term relationships my whole life, really. Dating was not easy for me. And so around that time I met Mike, I met my first husband and we had so much fun and that just felt like. A really solid, like, place to land, you know.
- [35:28]
A
Because you were 22 when you first got married.
- [35:31]
B
Yeah, so I was like 19 when we met and we got married really young. And then I had Luca so young. And I think I was like, very. I always knew I was gonna be a young mom. I always wanted to be a mom. I always wanted a lot of kids. So that was really, it was major. I mean, that was a crazy time, like to be 20, like pregnant at 23, 24.
- [35:57]
A
How did you know you were ready for that with your career?
- [36:01]
B
I didn't care about my career at that point. Mike was playing hockey. I was like going to live with him for like months at a time, wherever he would play. And we were just like having fun. And I didn't really care that much about my career.
- [36:16]
A
Yeah. Having been so young and lived so much life, like, what did it mean to you when you had a child? Like what? Like when you had Luca, like, did it change everything for you?
- [36:28]
B
Yeah, big time. I was so excited to have him to focus on. My life had been like, so about me and like, I didn't want all of that. I wanted, I think just something that felt like tangibly mine to hold onto and to focus on. And yeah, it was really fun. It was also really confusing. I had not a single friend who had a baby or was pregnant because obviously I was so young. My friends were like, are you serious? Teen mom, what are you doing?
- [37:03]
A
We. Can you talk about that? Because I think that's like very relatable where a lot of my audience is either the girl that is having the baby that none of their friends are at that stage or the reverse, where all their friends are having kids and they're not. Like, how did that impact your friendships?
- [37:20]
B
Well, my friends were all going out and stuff, and I was like, I'm not doing that anymore. Yeah. And that was kind of hard, but I didn't really care about that as much. It was just. I think all the physical changes were a big deal for me. I think I gained, like, 50 pounds. I was pregnant with him, and I'm five two. So that was like a wild. Just like, oh, my God, what has happened to me? But I'm trying to think. One of my best friends. We've been friends for 20 years now. I remember she walked into my door late, and I was like, I think you expect everyone to get it when you have a baby and no one gets it and you're like this mag. All of a sudden, I'm on a schedule. And if you don't know what it's like to be on a schedule because you don't have a family yet, 20 minutes late. I'm like, this isn't like us a year ago. This is me now. Where nursing a baby is not just like, oh, you're like, my milk's coming in and I've got to get this out. You know what I mean? And then the baby goes down for a nap. And if that doesn't happen, I get not a single minute to my day. You know what I mean? So, like, looking forward to seeing your friend and then them being late, you're like, it's over. We can't hang. And. And then also the nerves of, like, now I would be like, come. It's all good.
- [38:56]
A
But you're. It's your first kid.
- [38:57]
B
Your first kid.
- [38:58]
A
You didn't know what you were doing.
- [38:59]
B
Yeah. You're just nervous. So my friends, right, the part of the story was that my friend, like, watched me, like, nurse my baby. My boobs were, like, huge. And you're, you know, it's all, like, clunky and new and whatever. And she texts me, and she was like, I don't even. It's crazy to not recognize you. And I was like,
- [39:19]
A
oh, my God.
- [39:20]
B
I know. And later I was like, you hurt my feelings so much by saying that, but I know you didn't mean it. Like, it must look insane, right? Like, I'm, like, nursing a baby and we've, like, grown up together, and now this, like, crazy thing happened.
- [39:32]
A
It feels like you're like a new person to her. And really, all you probably need at that moment is to feel like we
- [39:38]
B
could just like eat a salad and have a hang.
- [39:40]
A
Yes. And like, not feel like you're this outsider because everyone in your life, I'm
- [39:44]
B
like, I want to hear who you just hooked up with. And I wanted, like, things to be normal, but nothing's normal.
- [39:49]
A
Can you also share a little bit more about like, how your body image was affected by pregnancy? Because I think that's like, I have never had a kid and I do, I would love to have kids at one point, but I think for women it's so hard because it's like you're expected to be everything for everyone. And you go through this, like, extreme change in your life and women, then it's like the bounce back thing. And what do you look like? Like, how did you manage all of that?
- [40:18]
B
I don't know, because I dealt with a lot of. I remember being, I think, in Mexico with my mom or something. Like four months after I had Luca and we had like a private home there that we were staying at and a paparazzi got a picture and they were like, Hillary debuts post baby bod. And I was like, babe, I'm not debuting anything. You're taking a picture of me at a private house. When I think I'm with my family and my baby and like, it's horrendous. So that's like so messed up. And I feel like it's getting better. And as I've had subsequent kids, like, you're just like, oh, I recognize this. I know what it is. It's hard to get through this phase, but it's all like, it's all fleeting. You know what I mean? And so the more times I've done it, the less like, weight it has with, like dealing with your body changing and you kind of. I don't, you know, normal people don't have to, like, have the noise, but you're sensitive. It's really hard. You'd look different, you know, forever. You're like feeding a child and you're supposed to know exactly what to do and you don't know exactly what to do. And things don't always work out the way, you know, we're. The pressure to feel like a natural mother, like, is. Is a lot.
- [41:54]
A
You know, you had mentioned, I think that you like nursing for you in the beginning was difficult. And again, like, as women, if you. If it doesn't go exactly as they tell you on the Internet and according to plan, like, sometimes there can be like shame around that. Like, how did that impact your self esteem?
- [42:14]
B
I Still could cry thinking about, like, just not being able to be. You want to be everything for your kid because you grow them and you birth them and they're yours. And you watch, you know, reels of, like, people just nursing their baby in public and it being so natural. And, like, it just wasn't like that for me. And I. Every time you, like, we would, like, weigh. This was with Towns mostly, but, like, she wasn't gaining weight. And I'm trying to, like, nurse her literally round the clock. And that's my fourth kid. Like, just supplement. What are you doing? Like, you know, and you're just like, I was so stubborn about it. I just wanted. I wanted it to work out, and it didn't. And, like, then you're two weeks out of, like, not nursing, and you're like, yes, this is the best freedom ever. But in that moment, you're like, how will I ever cope with this? How will I? Why can't I be good at this? And, you know, Luca, I nursed him the most. It was easier then. And like, down the line, I just. Each child got less and less and less, and now I'm like, who cares? But in the moment, it's like you're so consumed. And I think by design, right, like, we're designed to take care of our child by feeding them from your body. But, like, guys have to do one thing one time. That's what my husband says. He's like, I did one thing one time. And, like, you have to do all
- [43:39]
A
of these things, and then it's all on you.
- [43:41]
B
Yeah.
- [43:41]
A
Which is a lot. And I even have friends I know that will be watching that are going through that phase right now that it's like, it is helpful to hear from someone so many people look up to and grew up with that they're at a similar stage right now where it's like, hearing other women talk about it, I think is like, half the battle, because it is so isolating. And to just hear you even say, like, it actually got better as I just kept going, because even if it didn't actually get better, I got better at handling how hard it was, which is life. Right. Speaking of hard things. So you're in a different place than your friends. You're a young mom, there's scrutiny online, your body, you're figuring all this out, and then you go through a divorce.
- [44:23]
B
Yeah.
- [44:24]
A
And your child is not even two. Not even two. Without. Obviously, I know you have a co parenting dynamic, and I don't want to speak at all negatively about him. How did you know that it was time to walk away and that the marriage was over? Oh, gosh.
- [44:46]
B
It just got to a point where it wasn't gonna. It wasn't gonna be like we. We just. I think he was good with it because I was like, here's this, this, this, like, you know, and he was like, great. Like we're. This was before conscious uncoupling was a thing. And my parents went through such a bad divorce that I was like calling it made it really painful, but, like, we're not together anymore, so obviously it was bad enough that it just wasn't. It wasn't working. And that was a really tough call because we had not even two year old kid. And I remember doing everything in my power to like, have it be peaceful and have us hanging out and spending time together. And every time we would, you know, trade. It wouldn't just be like a drop off pickup situation. We would like go to the park and hang or go have a meal. Um, it was really important to me to. To do it in a way that Luca could feel like, comfy. Um, I can't remember the exact time. I was like, gonna call this, you know, but it happened pretty fast. It was just. It was a, like, you know, it was not. It wasn't working anymore. But I remember the one thing that was really hard about it was like processing that it was happening and it was going to happen and going through all of those emotions. And it was a really. It was a really scary time to just not want to fuck up your kid. You know what I mean? You put like all of your stuff aside, and I had to like, deal with all of that later to just make sure that, like, he was okay. And then, you know, you file for divorce. And TMZ literally has like an office at the LA courthouse. So they see every single paper that goes through. So like within 50 minutes they're like reporting. And then you have to like, process it along the world alongside with the
- [46:56]
A
world, you know, I did not realize that about tmz. That's actually insane.
- [47:01]
B
Yeah.
- [47:01]
A
But like, when do you think and how did you do it in terms of like, almost like mourning what you thought your life was gonna look like, I think is very relatable. And then you kind of don't have control over it. You had to make a decision for you and your. And your kid. Like, when do you think you were able to actually mourn that loss? Essentially?
- [47:20]
B
I haven't ever thought about that. I think probably when I started like dating again and like, my divorce was finalized, and we were, you know, Co parenting and stuff. Like, I. I think it was just something I. I had a lot of therapy. Like, I. That was a very helpful tool to help, like, confront the feelings that would come up, you know, I was 26. 27. No, I was 27, 28. And that's, like, such a crazy time, you know? Like, that's a very fun time of your life. And I started to, like, allow myself to have fun through something really painful. And I feel like that's actually a very heavy theme in my life, like, this record. There's a lot of, like, heavy themes disguised as, like, joy, because it's pop music. And I feel like that is a huge part of, like, how I operate. Like, this big thing can be happening over here, and it's really hard, and it's a struggle, and I'm going to sort it out. And sometimes I might push it down and deal with it later or, like, I'm going to be tackling it right now. But, like, I genuinely am, like, such a happy person that I seem to be able to, like, get through things.
- [48:49]
A
That's how you clearly survive those hard moments. Right? You're like, I'm gonna choose to see the positive in life.
- [48:55]
B
Yeah.
- [48:55]
A
To keep it moving. Also.
- [48:57]
B
I think I knew from my parents divorce that, like, I was going to show my kid that you gotta, like, fight for your happiness. And I knew that it was gonna be better to do it when he was younger than it was going to be when he was and aware or ate and aware. And then kids put, like, a whole different element of, like, guilt on themselves for, like, their marriage not working out. I was like, if Luca cannot remember this and have two lives that exist that he can be happy in and feel, like, secure in, I think we're winning.
- [49:31]
A
Yeah. What do you think overall? Because I. I know you're saying you're a positive person, which I think is like, a great lesson for people. But for you, if someone is going through a divorce right now, like, can you describe your lowest moment and then how you got out of it through that to anyone who's maybe at that low point right now?
- [49:50]
B
One, you have to have a therapist. You have to be talking. You have to be processing the feelings, and you have to stand up for yourself. I think that was just the thing. I was like, I have to just stand up for myself. I have to. And the same thing could have been going on for him. You know what I mean? Like, so I'm not just like, oh, I up and left. Like it was a collaborative thing that needed to happen. But you, you gotta fight for yourself. And it doesn't matter that you have kids, your kids, your kids are gonna be okay. You know what I mean? You just have to show them that like you also met. I think that that was the big thing for me is like when you have kids, you kind of become so all consumed by them and they get your everything. And. It was important for me to not let that be a factor because a 2 year old can't decide that and know what's. You know what I mean?
- [50:59]
A
So it's really good advice. It's like you matter too. And actually by showing.
- [51:04]
B
But once you become a mom, your guilt becomes so thick that like you don't actually. The. There's like this part of your brain where you're like, yeah, I'm still in here and I'm still me. And then there's like this huge shadow over. It was like. But everything for the family and everything for your kid and you know, and, and that's a good. It's. I think again, it's by design, but it's a constant conversation to like choose yourself and choose something, you know, that you enjoy outside of family life and kids.
- [51:36]
A
Because eventually what you're also showing them is like you're leading by example. Because then they will choose themselves hopefully if they're ever in that situation. Cause they're gonna have watched you do it.
- [51:44]
B
I think that's absolutely right. Like, I had to go drink a martini last night instead of stay home with my family.
- [51:49]
A
It's just that.
- [51:50]
B
And I've been working a lot and I try to still give them everything, but like I had to have that dirty martini last night.
- [51:55]
A
Mom needs. Needed it. They're not gonna blame you, Hillary. I love it. Okay, so you eventually start dating, you get out of this marriage, you start dating, and then you eventually meet your now husband. Should we call him Matthew? Matt. What should we call him? Matthew Matt.
- [52:11]
B
I call him Matthew. When I'm like talking about him. I don't know why it feels so sophisticated.
- [52:15]
A
Matthew. My husband's name is Matthew too. Oh, okay. How did you guys meet?
- [52:20]
B
We got set up from my A and R person. I was at RCA for a nanosecond and my A and R person there set us up on like a work date.
- [52:31]
A
Okay, and was it an immediate connection or was it like a slow burn?
- [52:37]
B
It was pretty immediate, but like we kept it response. Like we weren't like outwardly flirting, but I was like, wait, this person's so fun to talk to. And our meeting was, like, two hours long. I know. And then I was like, oh, my God, I've got to, like, got a child at home. I have to go. But we were just talking, like, music
- [52:57]
A
and,
- [52:59]
B
you know, taste and, like, I was a quarter of the way through, like, making a record, and it was just. He was definitely cute. I was. He. And then I found out, like, a month ago that he sent an email that he found and sent it to me, and he wrote his manager, and it was like, two hours with Hillary. I think I'm in love.
- [53:27]
A
You're, like, laughing, but you're also, like. I literally felt the same way, but I didn't put that in writing. Wait, that's amazing. I know. So you both felt it immediately? Kind of, yeah.
- [53:36]
B
And I think we were, like, flirty, but not, like, you know, when there's just, like, a ping pong, like, vibe that's happening, but you're not like. Like, is this person just, like, this fun to talk to or, like, are their feelings. Yeah, it was like that. And I was going to Sweden for, like, half a month or something to work on some music, and he. We were, like, chatting during that time, and then I came home and was, like, recording two songs that he had written, and there was a lot of. He was very sweet. I was, like, sick for one of them. And he had brought me, like, all these, like, honeys and teas and cough drops. I know. And then.
- [54:20]
A
And you guys hadn't hooked up at this point yet?
- [54:21]
B
No. Nope, we hadn't hooked up yet. And then he asked me to be his Valentine. I know, but I already had plans with Luca, and I was like, sorry, I can't, because I have a date already. And then I just, like, took a picture of Luca and sent it to him, and he was like, okay, I accept.
- [54:36]
A
Fair. Fair.
- [54:37]
B
Great. So I think we had, like, a date maybe a few days after, a week after or something, and it was great. But he was so nice to me. And I remember being like, like. Like, after a few times we had hung out, I was like, he's just so nice. That's not really a thing.
- [54:56]
A
So you thought it was, like, almost a red flag that he was too nice?
- [54:59]
B
I think I was just, like, not ready to accept all of that yet. I was, like, coming out of that, like, a long relationship, a divorce, like, I. I was just, like, chaotic.
- [55:11]
A
Yeah.
- [55:12]
B
I think I needed some chaos first.
- [55:14]
A
Yes. Meeting a nice guy that's actually going
- [55:16]
B
to treat you well.
- [55:16]
A
You're like, wait, can you pause for two seconds? Yeah, let me together and I'll come back.
- [55:20]
B
Yeah, totally.
- [55:22]
A
Okay, wait, so who made the first move move? Him. Okay.
- [55:26]
B
Then I broke up with him.
- [55:28]
A
Okay, hold on.
- [55:29]
B
Okay.
- [55:29]
A
I feel like there's so much you guys have said, like, very on and off again. You broke up with him then. Didn't he break up with you? Like, can you kind of just take me through what the hell happened?
- [55:39]
B
Yeah. So. Okay, so I don't know how long we dated. Maybe like three months or something. Really? Honestly, we had a bunch of fun during that time. And then I was like, gotta go. You need to go, like, handle. He had some personal stuff he needed to work on. I was like, I have a child. Like, I don't know what excuse. I use some bullshit excuse. But I was like, sorry, I know.
- [56:02]
A
You're literally perfect. I gotta go.
- [56:04]
B
Yeah, Hillary. Okay, so that was like, maybe six months separation, and then what? How did we. Okay. He's also obsessed with. Do you know the band Dawes?
- [56:27]
A
No.
- [56:27]
B
Okay. Dawes is this amazing band. He. They're like his heroes. And now they're, like, his best friends because. And Taylor is married to Mandy Moore.
- [56:36]
A
Okay.
- [56:37]
B
And I've known Mandy more my whole life, but, like, we were never running in the same, like, friend circles. But I would, like, see her at, like, TRL or, like, I know, so throwback. Know each other, but, like, aren't really friends. And so we hadn't spoken in a long time. And he texts me out of the blue, and he's like, taylor and Mandy married. And I was. But we didn't know them yet. We weren't friends with him yet. He's just, like, creepy updating me on their life because he's so obsessed with dogs. And I, like, I will. I will never forget. I was pulling out of, like, a grocery store parking lot, and I almost wrecked my car. I was like, wait, am I actually getting this text right now? Text right now? And then it was like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
- [57:18]
A
We're back.
- [57:19]
B
We're back, baby. Oh, yeah. And then we were together for, like, three months. Things were, like, very surface. And I didn't like that. I was like, I need. I think maybe because I broke up with him, he was like, is she gonna do it stable enough? Like, I don't know. And I think coming from, like, also a broken household, I was like, let me push this guy and try to poke all the holes in it that I can to see if he's gonna, like, stick Around. Do you know what I mean?
- [57:53]
A
Relatable. Yes.
- [57:55]
B
And so we go to New York, and I'm, like, on a work trip, and I. It was like a wine event where I had to, like, basically drink wine all day and, like, host, like, a dinner party. Like, not a dinner party, but, like a garden rooftop party.
- [58:15]
A
Oh, my God, what a great.
- [58:16]
B
So fun. Except for, like, you know those press days where you, like, basically don't eat.
- [58:21]
A
Yes. And then you're drinking and you're just
- [58:23]
B
talking to people and you're, like, working. But yes. You're like. By the end, I was like, I am.
- [58:28]
A
You're seeing stars.
- [58:29]
B
Two sheets to the wind.
- [58:30]
A
Yes.
- [58:30]
B
Yes. And then we go to dinner, and it was like an omakase. And I had more wine, whatever. I pick up some fight. We get into it. I don't even know exactly what I said. But he left the next morning. I know. Yes.
- [58:43]
A
Just up and laugh.
- [58:45]
B
No, I mean, we had a discussion, and he was like, bye. He let, like. He kind of, like, hit me with his bag on the way out the door and left the door open. We were in the Greenwich. We were at the Greenwich Hotel. And the doors don't, like, automatically close
- [58:57]
A
there, so it's like an awkward, like.
- [58:58]
B
And I was like, did you just leave the door open? He's, like, at the elevator, literally. I know the drama. I know.
- [59:07]
A
I'm leaving. You left me once. I'm leaving you. It's my turn.
- [59:10]
B
I think that it leveled the playing field in a really good way. But then he wouldn't speak to me because he's a crazy Gemini. And I was like, I just want a moment to, like, say, I'm a Libra. I need balance. That was, like, a crazy night when I really. That's not really, like, who I am. So I was just like, I want to genuinely, like, say sorry. You don't have to, like, this is not me, like, pleading to get back with you. I need to, like, just make it right. And, like, genuinely, like, apologize, whatever. Wouldn't speak to me then that made me mad. And I was like, literally, it's been a week. A week. And then I text him, and I was like, your guitars will be at the guard gate. Pick them up at this time. He must have gotten them. We didn't really, like, talk, whatever. And then he. Words with Friends. Me, like, a few months later.
- [59:56]
A
You're lying to me right now.
- [59:58]
B
And I was like, wait, again. Almost wrecked my car. Was so excited.
- [60:01]
A
Wait, Words with Friends is also. Why did I also have that with an X. Where we would, like, kind of communicate that way. And you're like, what are we doing? Just pick up the fucking phone and call each other.
- [60:12]
B
I know, but it's kind of fun.
- [60:13]
A
It is.
- [60:14]
B
You get the education so good with words that I was like, I mean, obviously, I always get beat.
- [60:19]
A
Right, but you're like, okay, here we go.
- [60:21]
B
Yeah. And that was right before my 30th birthday. So he was like, at my 30th birthday was. Which was so nice. And it was, like, this really lovely moment where I, like, looked around my party and I was like, like, everyone that is here, like, means so much to me and has been, like, such an important part of my story and my, like, growing, you know? And it's not like a 70th birthday, but 30 is a big deal, you know? So it was nice. He was. He was there for that. And then, literally, we were. We were going away. Where's the place with all the red canyons? Like, in Utah?
- [60:57]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Amman. The Amman.
- [60:59]
B
Yeah.
- [60:59]
A
Yeah.
- [61:00]
B
So we were there, and I remember on the way back, we're on the airplane. I was like, when do you want to have kids? And he was like, probably, like, 35. And then I was pregnant, like, two months later, and I was like, gotcha.
- [61:11]
A
Oh, wow. Okay, wait. I feel like one of the themes in your album is abandonment wounds. And to have this be on and off again, and then to finally realize, like, this is your person. And he realized you are my person. Like, how did you work through those wounds? Because it's hard. And I feel like a lot of women listening will be like, wait.
- [61:33]
B
Honestly, I think what worked was me just trusting him. And that's just time, really. A lot of time. Obviously, three pregnancies is a lot on a relationship, and especially one. Or, like, I feel like I come with a lot of, like, baggage. And I think just that he's willing to, like, really be there and shelter my emotions and my story. And he just kept showing up over and over. And I was like, cool that once I could get through that, like, now we get to really have, like, the fun. You know what I mean? Like, because I just fully trust him. And that was so hard to get to that place. And there was no secret recipe, but just time and trusting my gut that, like, I made a good decision and that it's real and that, like, a person actually just cares about me. Like, it's really hard to accept that
- [62:38]
A
for some reason, but how beautiful that you. Then he proved it.
- [62:42]
B
Yeah. Over and over. Again, like, he's just, he's so. He rides really hard and it's really cute.
- [62:50]
A
You were pretty candid about saying, like, you didn't know if you wanted to get married again after everything you had been through. Like, how did you change your mind?
- [62:59]
B
Well, I always knew I wanted more kids and I knew he'd be an amazing dad. Once I finally introduced him to Luca, he, I think it was around Halloween and he like showed up as like head to toe Ninja turtle. I know. And I was like, oh my God, that's really cute. That's so cute.
- [63:19]
A
He's leaning in.
- [63:20]
B
He leaned in and he was just really, really patient knowing that I was like not ready to introduce him for a long time. When we became parents to banks, that was a big. I was like, oh, we're good at this. This feels right. And then I always knew he wanted to get married and he's like kind of a traditional guy like that. And I don't remember when the time was, but I always would be like, we can get married at 60. We can be like old and all of our kids can be there. And he would be like, okay, you know, he wasn't like ever asking me, but we would talk about it sometimes. And then randomly we were in New York shooting younger and I sent him a picture of a ring that I really liked and I was like, maybe I could see this on like my young cute hand and not my like old 60 year old hand. And then he proposed like two months later. So sweet.
- [64:30]
A
Call Her Daddy is brought to you by T Mobile daddies. I'm starting to suspect that a night in is the new nightlife. Okay? This is my life now. Snacks, comfy clothes. I want to romanticize doing absolutely nothing. And on those nights when I'm staying in, T Mobile has me covered with value that keeps on stacking up the more I use it. Like, hi. Streaming benefits and snack perks that truly deliver. Guys, the math is mathing, okay? There are so many perks and benefits. T Mobile is basically, basically making staying in a full blown lifestyle powered by carbs and content. I am a T Mobile Stan, okay? Anyone that makes me feel not only better, but great about staying in. Yeah. I love you, T mobile, okay? And if you have T Mobile like I do, you won't believe how good staying in can be. Check it out@t mobile.com magenta Status Disclaimer Streaming benefits included. While you maintain a qualifying experience beyond plan line, Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Shopify. Okay? There are moments where I obsess over things, and I can't stop thinking about them. And I'm thinking about them and thinking about them, but thankfully, it's mostly about work. Okay. And February is the month of romanticizing your life. Maybe you want to think about work and your business or whatever it is. I'm just. We're done thinking about these men. Okay. Whether it's a spark of a new idea or, you know, a love affair with entrepreneurship you've been waiting to explore, focus on your passion. Study gang. And Shopify gives you the tools to actually turn it into something real. This is the perfect month to invest back into yourself, your creativity, and your next big thing. Shopify is, hands down the best place to start and grow business. And if you're building solo iconic, you have nothing to worry about. Shopify basically becomes your entire back office. You can focus on the stuff you actually care about. It's basically like an AI assistant, and it does all of the things for you. Shopify has literally changed my life. I've said this since the barstool days, and I hope. I hope it changes yours. So if you're ready to build your own empire, whether it's merch products or the next best idea, get on shopify.com daddy and make it happen. Not only are you guys husband and wife, but you're also collaborators and business partners. I want to ask about your new song Roommates, which, you know, it talks about losing the spark and intimacy in a relationship. What was it like working on this together?
- [66:56]
B
One he doesn't shy away from, like, heavy topics that are uncomfortable when it comes to songwriting. Of course. We're like a normal couple. So, like, there's. I love that, like, opening line of the song is like, I can barely mention it without causing some ego trauma. And it's like, he's a man, and they all are. And, like, even if the tables were turned, like, it's hard to be in a relationship with someone and, like, call out something that's not working if, like, for the most part, it's good. But you're like, I feel really stuck right now. Like, I'm not feeling the way that I want this to feel or whatever. So it's like, it's hard because it feels like an attack. So, like, it's just hard to have communication that is healthy. Helps you get what you need or want without, like, bruising the other person. Especially in a family where, like, you're working overtime to make everyone's needs met and just make the household float, you know? And I don't want to always, like relay it to a family because everybody gets in that, you know what I mean? Like, anybody in a long term relationship or even something that's like six months where it was like, really sparky in the beginning, starts to like, life starts to feel normal and you're like, wait, I missed that thing.
- [68:18]
A
Right. It's like it almost has somehow become like, people get like shy or embarrassed to admit. Like guys, everyone feels it when you're in a long term relationship. Or again, like, the honeymoon stage is over. Every, I would say long term relationship goes through a moment where there's a shift in intimacy. Right. And to actually maintain a healthy long term relationship, you have to first acknowledge that's going to happen and not just like leave when it's not working. But then you also have to talk about it, which is the awkward part. You're kind of saying because, like, it is so uncomfortable to be like, can we talk about our sex life? And like, one person is wanting it more, one person's wanting it less, or one person's initiating more. And like, that's the most vulnerable, I think one of the most vulnerable things that you can talk about with the partner.
- [69:06]
B
I know.
- [69:07]
A
But once you open the door to that conversation, it is life changing.
- [69:12]
B
Yeah.
- [69:12]
A
And it does. I don't mean it's like easy every time, but like, do you have advice going through this writing process, going through it together and talking this through. For anyone who is like, how do you navigate those conversations and not have it lead to a fight or someone's feelings getting hurt,
- [69:33]
B
It's just like being a healthy communicator and being able to like. I think one of the things I struggled with, with and where like roommates kind of came from was like, it wasn't even necessarily like his problem. I was having a hard time asking for what I needed or being like, being in a place where I was like, felt like I couldn't like, share or like, was like ashamed of the like, needs that I had. You know, I think it's just being able to like, be open and not, and not like, blame someone. Like, communicating without blame is like a really. It's like an art form, quite literally.
- [70:20]
A
Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, that's. It's almost like sometimes it has nothing to do with your partner. It's actually like all on you of like, this is something I've been thinking about and now I need to make sure that when I'm saying this, it's coming out in a way that's not I wish you would. Or it's actually like, I need and I, I want. And that starting from that place is such a healthier place to communicate it so they're not immediately shut down and feeling backed into a corner like they're doing something wrong, which is beautiful.
- [70:50]
B
Also, I think that women have like such intuition and such a. Oh, what's the word I'm looking for? Like, like just. You're just in tune. You just know. And I remember calling his mom and being like, why doesn't he know?
- [71:08]
A
I know every woman in the world. Like, why don't you know? They're like, I don't know, but if you tell me, I'll fix it.
- [71:14]
B
Right? And it's so simple. But you're like, I don't want to have to tell you how don't you
- [71:17]
A
just know exactly what I'm feeling, making
- [71:20]
B
more work for me to have to tell you. They're like, she literally, like, I forget what some of the post its would say, but she'd be like, babe, put a post it up and just remember, you gotta, you gotta tell him. You gotta ask for what you need. You have to. Whatever. I know. And then it made things so much better when I was like, stop. When I didn't expect him to just know.
- [71:39]
A
Yeah, it's like we want them to be able to read our minds, but like, they can't. And so once you just start communicating, it's so much easier.
- [71:44]
B
But then you're already coming from a place of being annoyed that you're like, I've been suffering, right?
- [71:48]
A
It's like, I didn't even know that.
- [71:49]
B
I didn't notice.
- [71:51]
A
They're like, no talk. Say something. The lyrics also in the song, reference porn and masturbating. And it was pretty crazy to see the way some of the Internet responded.
- [72:05]
B
I know.
- [72:06]
A
People were like, some people were absolutely shocked and outraged that you were speaking about these things. How did it make you feel to see that some people really were still expecting you to present in this squeaky clean child star image that they watched you as a young girl have?
- [72:28]
B
Well, I think that probably my initial reaction was like, oh, they just haven't like evolved yet, you know, because. And I don't care at all. One of the craziest comments that I saw was like, and do you do that in front of your children? And I was like, no. What? Are you okay? No. But guess what? Like, the song is meant to be polarizing. It's not meant to like, be raunchy or like, get attention because of what I'm saying. Like, it's, it's a plea and like, I think that's relatable to women. And so, you know, I have never given head in the back of a dive bar. Sadly. There's always time, but it's gonna happen. But you get to take like, liberty, lyrical, like, liberties when you're writing a song and you're creating art. And it was, it was important for me that the song felt like very polarizing because that's, that's how it feels in, in a moment of a. Of a lull in a relationship where you're just like, I need. I need to sort this out. I need to get through this. I can't keep feeling this way. And yeah, so, yeah, it was really wild to see some of the. I think for the most part it was good. But then of course, like, all the comments that stand out to you are the negative ones.
- [73:52]
A
It also funny because I feel like from the Internet, what I saw was at first it was all positive, and then as people like, really started to dissect the lyrics and had like, more time to sit on it, they're like, did she say masturbate? Did she say porn? And everyone's like, yeah, Hillary Duff said the word porn. And everyone's like, it's almost like just like the bandwagon. It's like so fun for them and easy to just like, get on it. And you'd be like, yeah, that's kind of crazy. I. What I also took from it or
- [74:17]
B
like, do your kids sing that? And I'm like, I'm not making music for my kids. I'm not making music for seven year olds. I'm making music for myself and making music for people like myself. So, you know, I was singing crazy lyrics when I was young too, that I had no idea what they meant. And if I was like, I'm not making a children's record again.
- [74:39]
A
I think there's an image people have of you being a child star that they. That's like, on them. It's not on you.
- [74:45]
B
Yeah.
- [74:45]
A
I also thought it was ironic that, that, you know, they're so shocked that you're singing about sex as an adult, but then when you rewind as a teenager, you had reporters asking you, have you lost your virginity and are you sleeping around? So it's like, it's. It's never. Women can never win. It wasn't appropriate when you were underage that people were asking you these things. And now that you have autonomy and you're an adult. People are now so fixated on, like, how dare you talk about sex? And it's like, wait, what do you want from me? She's four kids. Do you guys think that she doesn't have sex?
- [75:16]
B
Immaculate conception.
- [75:17]
A
Yes. Yes.
- [75:18]
B
Every time.
- [75:19]
A
How, though, do. I'm curious, people having always something to say about you and your sexuality and whether it was your virginity or you're hooking up and then now, like, how has that impacted your sexuality?
- [75:32]
B
I don't think it, like, impacted my relationship with sex, but I think it's just been another one of those things that comes along with my career that I didn't really ask for. And I've had to learn how to just accept. But it was really hard as a young girl because I was, like, coined the good girl. And everybody was like, she's the good girl, she's the good girl. And, like, just having to label someone and then do everything they could to try to poke holes in that label or try to figure out any thing they could that was, like, somewhat negative or bad, you know, it was like the create. They were just trying to create stories, and it was hard to be like, one. Okay, I've been labeled the good girl. Like, but I'm also just normal, doing all the normal things that teenagers are doing and trying to just kind of exist without accepting those things to be true about myself maybe, or having any sort of, like, privacy, I think was just, like, really hard. And yeah, I remember that time that person, like, asked me if I was a virgin, and I was like. I think also as a child, after, you're conditioned to, like, want to give people what they want, you know? So, like, answering something like that felt, like, really wild.
- [77:09]
A
Wait, did you answer?
- [77:10]
B
I don't remember. I don't remember. I just remember it being said and it was like a stir of, like, publicists and like a crazy. You know, this is, like, so inappropriate.
- [77:20]
A
Beyond. Yeah, yeah.
- [77:22]
B
That stuff I don't think flies anymore.
- [77:24]
A
No.
- [77:25]
B
But, yeah, it was definitely in the middle of that, like, crazy press time where people would ask you whatever.
- [77:31]
A
And that's why I'm so happy that you're taking your own liberty of, like, I am going to talk about things in my life, and it's okay if everyone doesn't want to accept it, but don't just not accept it because of an image you have of me as a young girl, because that's actually just weird.
- [77:48]
B
Yeah.
- [77:49]
A
You have a song also called We Don't Talk, and you kind of basically say, don't Know when it happened, not even sure what it was about, which is weirdly, really relatable. I think it kind of seems like you're talking about, and correct me if I'm wrong, like. Like when a relationship falls apart and when you have time away from it, you look back, you're like, wait, why did we lose touch? Or how did that exactly go down? How do you approach those type of dynamics in your own life? Like, are you the person that will reach out or do you kind of retreat and not try to mend something? If it's broken, I will reach out. You do. Have you had to do that a lot in your life?
- [78:26]
B
Yes.
- [78:27]
A
Has it always felt like, oh, you made the right decision or have you been kind of bitten in the ass ever?
- [78:34]
B
I think I get bitten in the ass sometimes when it doesn't unfold the way that I would. Like I was hoping. But I think that. I think one thing that I appreciate about myself is that I will always try and I like, always try to keep a heart open and a heart forward and try. And that as a 38 year old who's navigated the industry since I was 9 years old, makes me feel healthy. It's easy to get jaded and really rough around the edges and I don't feel like I am.
- [79:15]
A
Yeah, obviously you are a very public person, so people are constantly trying to dissect your lyrics. But a lot of people have been thinking that this could be about a family member of yours. How do you feel when you see those things online?
- [79:35]
B
I think there was no way for me to make a record after 10 years and not dig into what those 10 years have looked like, you know, and like the big things that have happened and that affect me and that make me who I am. And unfortunately a lot of that has been not great stuff. And that's life. It sucks that I'm not an adult coming out with an album that people don't know my story and all the players in it. You know, people have known everybody in my life since I was on Lizzie McGuire. You know, they know my mom, my sister, my dad. Like, we have a small family. People are interested in that for some reason. And it's really sad, you know, the, the kind of like where, where we are right now and scary to share it because of like the Internet, but important for me. Like, I'm just saying how it feels for me. And that was something on the record I really tried to accomplish is like not placing blame anywhere. Takes a lot of people for it takes everybody involved you know, to, to for things to kind of be where they are. But I was just trying to talk about how it feels like for me and reach people because it's real and a lot of people share a similar story and. Yeah, no, it's never easy to see people speculating on your life for clicks, but it's easier to tune the noise out with like having the household that I have and the. That like soft landing and that all the love and you know, I've created that family I'm so proud of. Like that makes all of the things that I've been through like. Okay.
- [81:48]
A
Yeah. When you put out songs like that, like were you. Has it felt cathartic and kind of like chapter close or are you hoping it could maybe like spark some type of like reconciliation or conversation?
- [82:01]
B
My purpose was for making my record was for myself. And I think that like you always hope for something to be healthy again, you know, and something to be good again. But I don't know if like, I don't know if my me being honest and vulnerable will, you know, be met with openness or anger or what. It could, you know, there's many different options there and I think I had to just let go of an expectation and do what I wanted for me and, and that's that, you know, it's a. It's a painful thing to talk about. Yeah.
- [82:52]
A
It kind of reminds me almost of like you earlier in the interview said. God, I. I do love doing this so much, but I do love my life and the privacy and it's almost like.
- [83:05]
B
Well, I don't know if you've noticed but like even since I started like being more like forward facing with my music, like the Internet is like a buzz with like everything they can possibly dig up.
- [83:18]
A
So it's, it's a lot.
- [83:20]
B
Very strange.
- [83:22]
A
I have a list of things and I'm like, shit. Like you've been a hot topic of conversation. Miss stuff like you have been. I'm like, okay, so we go through the family thing now. One of literally the noisiest things on the Internet. That's what I have to ask. Just because it's been so freaking noisy. It's been everywhere. Is an article was written about a toxic mom group and it literally took the Internet by storm. And every single person was talking about it and then through speculation and then people connecting the dots. Like it kind of.
- [83:50]
B
I don't really think people had to connect very many dots.
- [83:52]
A
It took like a day, not even.
- [83:54]
B
Right.
- [83:55]
A
How did you feel when it came out and when you read it,
- [84:03]
B
I felt really sad. I honestly felt really sad. I was, like, pretty. Pretty taken aback and felt just, like, sad. Like, I love. I have. I have so many groups of friends. I'm so lucky motherhood has brought on, like, I have my, like, core group of friends who have been my ride or dies for 20 years. 10 to 20 years. And I have, like, tons of different groups of mom friends because I have four kids, you know? So I think I just was like, whoa, it sucks to read something that's, like, not true. And it sucks on behalf of, like, six women in all of their lives.
- [84:49]
A
Then the podcast stirred a little bit more. Our boy Matthew.
- [84:53]
B
Yes.
- [84:53]
A
Posted an Instagram story, kind of then addressing back to it. Did you know he was going to post this? No. How did you feel when you opened your phone and hubby had chimed in?
- [85:07]
B
Honestly, everything he does makes me laugh. So I was like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. But I also don't censor him, and I don't tell him what he can and can't post. He is so, like, fierce for me, and, like, I love him for that.
- [85:37]
A
Is there anything on that that you want to clarify? Because obviously, all the rumors and everything, and, like, you have been in the center of it. Like, is there anything else you want to just, like, clarify on that topic?
- [85:46]
B
No.
- [85:47]
A
Okay.
- [85:49]
B
I think it came at, like, the craziest time where I was, like, my. Like, the timing felt not great, and I felt used.
- [85:59]
A
Like, would this have happened had you not had your big resurgence and everything going on with you? Okay, moving on. Okay. Like, We've talked about 10 years since you released an album, so I'm curious, if you were to picture your dream life ten years from now, what would it look like?
- [86:19]
B
Whoa. Cool. Okay. Anytime I look into the future, I like to think about Thanksgiving and, like, what the table looks like.
- [86:30]
A
Are you hosting?
- [86:31]
B
Always.
- [86:32]
A
Okay. Ten years. It's November. You're hosting.
- [86:35]
B
Yeah.
- [86:36]
A
What does it look like?
- [86:37]
B
Like, like, my kids have their, like, boyfriend or girlfriend there or, like, bestie or what? Like, it's just full. The table's full. The fit. Like, the seats are full. We're gonna play, like, some dumb game later. We're drinking wine. Like, it's just, you know, everyone's there. And so I would like to have toured the world maybe twice, probably made another record, and, like, figured out a way to juggle, like, having this and also having home life still be, like, I can't. It's so fun to watch my kids grow up. Like, it's Just the best thing ever. I love having babies, and it's really hard to think about not having a baby in the house anymore. But, like, as they grow, they just get so cool. So I think I just hope to continue having the relationship that I have with my kids and the home life that I have. But, like, I think I'll work. I'll work forever. Everyone's always like, what about the Lizzie McGuire reboot? And I'm like. Like, it's not interesting to me at, like, 40. It was interesting to me at, like, 30. But, like, maybe it's interesting at, like, 55 or 60, you know? Like, I don't know. Maybe I'm doing that.
- [88:11]
A
Listen, none of us are gonna be mad at you. We're like, we're ready whenever you're ready. We're like, we'll be. We'll be seated.
- [88:17]
B
Also, I would love to have more time to just, like, do the things I want with Matt. Like, we get very little time.
- [88:24]
A
Prioritize your relationship.
- [88:26]
B
Yeah, we talk about that a lot.
- [88:28]
A
Well, if I see you in 10 years, I'm gonna be like, did you do these things?
- [88:31]
B
What are you guys doing?
- [88:32]
A
I interview, like, the day after Thanksgiving, ten years from now. We'll put on the books how, if you have any, could you share some advice on. I know you can't do it all, but we are sitting here and, like, you've had such a successful career, you are continuing to have such a successful career, and you have four kids. And I think there's probably a lot of women that are looking at you being like, it does kind of seem like you have it all and you're doing it all. And, like, do you have any advice to women who maybe want to get back into work but are afraid how you manage that with the kids and all of it?
- [89:05]
B
1. I think that was a huge why for making this record was to inspire. I know people aren't pop stars. Not. Not everybody gets to be a pop star. And I'm, like, eternally grateful that, for some reason, this was my position in life. But I do hope that it inspires moms to get outside of their household a little bit and, like, find the thing that they love if they've lost it. I think it's so important to not be there for your kids every waking moment. I think it's so important for them to have, like, wins and losses out in the world alone that you're not, like, privy for. For everything. And that, like, breaks my heart to say, because I love to be there for all of their things. But, like, I think it's healthy. And I've learned that with having four kids, because you obviously can't be everywhere all at once. And you just have to be like, okay, I was there for that thing that day. I'm choosing this thing, this day, and I've got. You know, it's like, you got to make those choices. But I feel like my kids are stronger because of it, and I never want them to feel guilty for growing up and, like, leaving me behind. I don't. I want to be okay with, like,
- [90:22]
A
that is, like, made me, like, sad and happy at the same time. That almost made me cry. That's really.
- [90:27]
B
Yeah.
- [90:28]
A
Wow.
- [90:29]
B
And I think that if you, like, don't find yourself and stay true to, like, your. Some of your needs, you know, then, like, they eventually leave and you want them to leave and be okay, you
- [90:42]
A
know, like, I don't have kids yet, but that's like a big fear of mine. Right. I think so many women are probably watching right now because it's like, you don't want to lose yourself.
- [90:50]
B
Yeah.
- [90:51]
A
But then the guilt of, like, leaving them, and it's like, yeah. It's so ever present for women, whether they're in the middle of it or they're expecting to go through it. So to hear you be like, guys, I'm actually living it. And, like, you gotta let them go.
- [91:03]
B
Yeah, you do. And then the other thing that I, like, want to set straight a little bit is like, I.
- [91:13]
A
It.
- [91:13]
B
You can't have it all. You just can't. You can try and you can have a lot of the things that you want, but you're gonna miss stuff, you know, and you're gonna have to make choices. And I feel so incredibly grateful for everybody behind the scenes of my life right now helping me achieve this. It is like I have nannies and an assistant and, like, hair, makeup people keeping me looking good, you know, not like how I look when I wake up in the morning and my husband and a label and a huge machine behind me that's like making this. Meghan trainer texted me the other day, and she's like, babe, you. This rollout has been flawless. Are you okay? And I'm like, and I have so much help, but it's like, still so much, you know, it's just like a crazy. You don't see what goes on behind the scenes. Cause it all looks so shiny and it's like, has to, I guess. But, like, it's really hard, and everyone's taken sacrifices for it. You know, including my kids.
- [92:22]
A
No, I appreciate you saying that. Cause I think you're right. It's like your life does look like a dream right now. And it's like you're shiny and sparkly and gorgeous and all of it. And it's like, no to the women out there. Like, yes, I'm living my dream, but it's. It comes at a cost, and it's hard.
- [92:40]
B
Comes at a huge cost.
- [92:41]
A
Yeah.
- [92:42]
B
Being in the industry comes with a huge cost. And it's so hard to complain when your life looks shiny and you have money, you know, Completely.
- [92:50]
A
But I also appreciate you just letting us into. Because it's like, again, I think we compare ourselves to women we see online, because I'm like, okay, so she's got four kids, and she's able to do this. And then you're like, guys, no, no, no, no. Like, only because I have. Have a crew and a team and assistance and this. And it's like, breaking that barrier and that wall, I think also helps women who maybe are doing it as a single mom alone who can't afford the assistant. It's like, yeah, you've got the hardest job, and we bow down to you. Seriously.
- [93:17]
B
Down to them.
- [93:18]
A
Okay, last question. Your fans have stuck by your side for decades. What do you hope you're able to connect with them over in this new era that you're presenting to the world?
- [93:33]
B
1. I just want to say I'm eternally grateful for them. I would not have a music career without them. I was not, like, accepted by the music industry by any stretch of the imagination. They were rabid for me and my music. And, like, I was, of course, Lizzie McGuire being that launching pad and them, like, loving me from that. I'm so grateful. Of course, I had my feelings of having to, like, accept that part of my life, but I'm so, like, I love her now, too, and I connect, and I get it, you know? But, like, when I got into music, the fans, like, I was, you know, doing, like, arenas and stuff. Like, that was. And I didn't really have a ton of radio play, and I didn't have, like, it just wasn't a thing yet that, like, actors could just become musicians. Like, I'm just so appreciative that, like, my music connected with people and, like, had legs for 20 years. And then I get to be at a point now in my life where I'm. I can, like, see what it meant to them and me.
- [94:49]
A
And
- [94:51]
B
then just getting to, like, not be shy about, like, not. I'm not reintroducing myself at all. I think I just needed, like, a second to, like, live some life and like, they lived a whole bunch of life and now we get to, like, connect as adults and talk about what the hell that's like.
- [95:10]
A
Thank you so much for opening up today. I know we went on, like, a winding journey, really.
- [95:15]
B
We were in the canyon, babe.
- [95:16]
A
We were. We went everywhere and more. And I think again, like, having had you take a break for a while, coming back, like, it's so fun to hear about your adult life. I know we did nostalgia. But, like, I really appreciate you sharing more about what's been going on recently because it is so informative to this album and I'm so excited for everyone to hear it and to embrace it with open arms and not look at you as this child star, but this woman who has this beautiful family and a career. And that is beyond relatable to my audience for sure. So thank you for opening up and letting us have a little glimpse into your life and everything that's inspired this amazing album. Thank you.
- [95:56]
B
Hillary Dunn.
- [95:57]
A
Thank you for coming. Uncle or Daddy?
- [96:13]
B
Hey, everybody, it's Babs.
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A
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