RuPaul: Blocking Out the Bullshit (FBF)

Summary

Call Her Daddy Podcast Summary: "RuPaul: Blocking Out the Bullshit (FBF)"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Call Her Daddy
• Host/Author: Alex Cooper
• Episode: RuPaul: Blocking Out the Bullshit (FBF)
• Release Date: July 4, 2025

Guests:

• RuPaul: Iconic drag queen, television host, and performer.
• Sydney Sweeney: Acclaimed actress known for her roles in various high-profile projects.

---

Introduction and Welcome

The episode begins with Alex Cooper welcoming RuPaul and Sydney Sweeney to the show. The focus quickly shifts to an in-depth conversation about Sydney's memoir, "The House of Hidden Meanings," exploring her personal journey, family dynamics, and path to self-discovery.

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Sydney Sweeney’s Confidence and Self-Reliance

RuPaul kicks off the discussion by asking Sydney about her confidence levels. Sydney responds candidly:

Sydney Sweeney [03:17]: "I feel most confident when I'm not distracted by other people's bullshit, period."

She emphasizes the importance of self-reliance and maintaining confidence by avoiding unnecessary distractions and negativity from others.

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Family Dynamics and Childhood Trauma

The conversation delves into Sydney's relationship with her parents, particularly her mother. Sydney shares heartfelt reflections:

Sydney Sweeney [09:23]: "I loved my mother... she had a dark, dark cloud over her. I related to that. I understood it very well."

She discusses how her mother's world-weariness and unspoken pain impacted her upbringing, leading Sydney to adopt roles that lifted her mother's spirits while navigating a turbulent home environment.

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Impact of Parental Relationships on Adult Life

RuPaul explores how Sydney's relationship with her father influenced her romantic relationships:

Sydney Sweeney [19:52]: "I never got that validation from my father... It changed everything when George [her husband] started chasing me."

Sydney explains that her father's absence and emotional unavailability led her to seek validation through relationships with unavailable partners until she met George, who provided the trust and acceptance she had longed for.

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Struggles with Addiction and Path to Sobriety

A significant portion of the episode addresses Sydney's battle with addiction. She opens up about her substance use and the turning point that led her to seek help:

Sydney Sweeney [24:21]: "I used drugs and alcohol to process, to deal with feelings I didn't know how to process until eventually I did."

She credits a 12-step program for her recovery, highlighting the transformative power of therapy and self-forgiveness in overcoming trauma.

---

Reflections on Fame and Identity

Sydney discusses her experiences with fame and maintaining her true self amidst public scrutiny:

Sydney Sweeney [45:33]: "It's not that different from back then. It feels like I have a purpose that I came here to do."

She emphasizes the importance of authenticity and not letting external validation define her sense of self.

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Healthy Relationships and Personal Growth

The dialogue shifts to Sydney's relationship with her husband, George, illustrating how a healthy partnership contributed to her personal growth:

Sydney Sweeney [35:30]: "He wanted to be a part of me. That level of intimacy I had never experienced before."

She describes George's kindness and openness as fundamental to building trust and fostering a supportive environment, contrasting with her previous tumultuous relationships.

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Breaking the Cycle of Toxic Relationships

RuPaul and Sydney discuss the challenges of breaking free from patterns of toxic relationships inherited from her parents:

Sydney Sweeney [22:58]: "What you're describing is an abused child who's taken away from an abusive home... and how do you break that cycle?"

They explore the necessity of hitting rock bottom to catalyze change and the importance of self-awareness in choosing healthier relationships.

---

Sydney’s Memoir: "The House of Hidden Meanings"

The episode also covers insights from Sydney's memoir, where she recounts pivotal moments from her childhood and early adulthood. Notably, she shares a traumatic memory:

Sydney Sweeney [12:57]: "He parked the car in the garage... she poured gasoline all over the car... I was five years old."

Through this narrative, Sydney illustrates the profound impact of her parents' conflicts on her emotional well-being and coping mechanisms.

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Final Reflections and Moving Forward

In concluding the conversation, Sydney reflects on her journey of self-discovery and the ongoing process of healing:

Sydney Sweeney [57:03]: "You are born naked. That concept allows you to create whatever life you want. You are a co-creator with whatever the source is."

She underscores the empowering realization that individuals have the autonomy to shape their lives, free from the constraints of past traumas and societal expectations.

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Notable Quotes

• Sydney Sweeney [03:17]: "I feel most confident when I'm not distracted by other people's bullshit, period."
• Sydney Sweeney [09:23]: "I loved my mother... she had a dark, dark cloud over her. I related to that. I understood it very well."
• Sydney Sweeney [19:52]: "I never got that validation from my father... It changed everything when George started chasing me."
• RuPaul [22:58]: "What you're describing is an abused child who's taken away from an abusive home... and how do you break that cycle?"
• Sydney Sweeney [57:03]: "You are born naked. That concept allows you to create whatever life you want. You are a co-creator with whatever the source is."

---

Conclusion

This episode of Call Her Daddy offers a deep and honest exploration of Sydney Sweeney's personal struggles and triumphs. Through her candid discussions with RuPaul, listeners gain valuable insights into overcoming childhood trauma, the complexities of addiction, and the journey towards authentic self-love and healthy relationships. Sydney's narrative serves as an inspiring testament to resilience and the power of personal transformation.

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Note: This summary omits commercial breaks, advertisements, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions between the host and guests.

Transcript

[Alex Cooper]

Hi Daddy gang, it is your father. I am so excited that CallerDaddy has officially joined the SiriusXM family. I cannot wait to talk to new guests and continue to share my crazy personal stories and experiences with you every single week. If you want to hear new episodes ad free, subscribe to Sirius XM podcasts on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Intuit QuickBooks. Do you own a business that's ready to thrive? Yes. Amazing. It is time to let Intuit QuickBooks take things like unpaid invoices and tracking expenses off your plate to take things.

[RuPaul]

To the next level.

[Alex Cooper]

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[RuPaul]

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[Alex Cooper]

New York State Department of Financial Services. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Baskin Robbins. Oh, my God. There is nothing better in the summer heat than a cold treat that actually hits. Okay, ice cream? Sure, bet. You name it, I want it. Okay. Summer's looking real sweet thanks to Baskin Robbins limited time Sweet and Sydney lineup inspired by Sydney Sweeney's Go to RA Rainbow Sherbet, a juicy trio of tart raspberry, sweet pineapple and tangy orange flavors. Go for Sydney's signature scoop. It's two scoops of rainbow sherbet in a waffle cone with sprinkles topped with Gummy Bear minis. Or sip on Sydney's signature fizz Rainbow Sherbet blended with Starry Lemon lime soda topped with Gummy Bear minis. This summer, go all in on feeling sweet on Sydney Baskin Robbins. See. Yay. Find a [e-mail] call her daddy is brought to you by Fiji Water. It is getting so hot outside and the best way to stay hydrated and refreshed is obviously with Fiji Water. Fiji really is from the islands of Fiji, bottled at the source and untouched by man until you unscrew the cap. Okay, Daddy gang, we all know we pick up a Fiji, we drink it.

[RuPaul]

You feel like you're in Fiji.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay. You're relaxing. It's. Oh, it's gorgeous. You know what I mean?

[RuPaul]

It does what we need it to do.

[Alex Cooper]

Stay hydrated every time we're out during summer. I think that's the biggest, biggest point that we Forget it's. Hydration is key, Daddy Gang. So visit your local retailer to pick up Fiji Water for your next backyard party, beach day, or your home office. Fiji Water is Earth's finest water. What is up, Daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy.

[RuPaul]

Okay, okay. Okay. RuPaul. Welcome to call Her Daddy.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Thanks.

[RuPaul]

Thank you so much for being here. I am very, very excited to talk to you. I think my fans are gonna freak out. I think this collab is gonna be very fun. When are you your most confident?

[Sydney Sweeney]

When I'm alone. People freak me out, man. People freak. People are freaky. Most people think of confidence as power or as having stuff or doing things, but it's. That's not. I feel most confident when I'm not distracted by other people's bullshit, period.

[RuPaul]

Would you consider yourself high or low maintenance?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Oh, I am so low maintenance. I am so low maintenance, you would not believe it. How. Yes, I can take care of myself. And you know what? I open my own door. I take care of myself.

[RuPaul]

Being alone with yourself, being good with yourself, and relying on yourself, it's kind of all you need.

[Sydney Sweeney]

It really is.

[Alex Cooper]

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[RuPaul]

Because we all have it.

[Alex Cooper]

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[RuPaul]

Congratulations. The House of Hidden Meanings. I think that this book is, is incredible because you offer like a very personal look into your childhood. You offer a personal look into early relationships and just some of the biggest struggles that you've been through in your life. So let's get into it. As a little boy, did you want to be famous? Like, would anyone have been surprised that you became famous in your life?

[Sydney Sweeney]

No one would have been surprised that I became famous. And did I want to become famous? It wasn't even about did I want to. I knew it was my destiny. I felt that people would had pointed me out from a very early age that says, hey, who are you? What are you doing? Hey, you. You know, I was always different is the wrong, it was, it was someone that people noticed, right? So I knew that somehow my destiny involved being out front. And the truth is I am an introvert masquerading as an extrovert. And I can do it. I can do the thing like, hey, how you doing? What's up? Hey, you know what? Is that cashmere? Oh, my God, I love cashmere. Cashmere, Cashmere, you know, where I just go on and just look like I'm being open, open, open. I know how to do it. But the truth is my real sense, you know, I'm just being chill. Just being chill.

[RuPaul]

Do you get exhausted?

[Sydney Sweeney]

It can exhaust me. I, I, you know, if I'm not working, I like to spend time alone to recharge my battery. But it can be exhausting. Now I usually keep that hidden, tucked away and I pretend like, oh my God, is that cashmere? And I'll do the thing, but the truth is I don't give a about cashmere. But I do that to get through, to get through life and to maintain and to, you know, to get endorsement deals and to get people to like me on social and do all the stuff.

[RuPaul]

First of all, thank you for just being honest because I think a lot of people actually will completely to relate to what you're saying of like, it's fucking exhausting trying to walk into work, walk into rooms and having to put on a facade because at the end of the Day. None of us are going to be completely the same when we walk into a room with other people than we are when we're alone. But there is a world of social currency that you need to somewhat engage in, especially if this is your career. It's like, you're right. You gotta sit across from me right now. And I'm sorry, but I'm gonna ask you questions about this memoir.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Listen, I do enjoy cashmere from time to time. You know, I can do the thing I. But what most people don't know about me is that, is that base level thing, which is don't take any of this too seriously. Otherwise you get yourself caught up in, in trouble and, and wars and, you know, getting your feelings hurt. I mean, it's, it's a lot. It's a lot.

[RuPaul]

In the book, you talk a lot about your family dynamics. Can you kind of paint the picture of what your relationship was like with your mother growing up?

[Sydney Sweeney]

I loved my mother. I love the fact that she didn't believe the. She just didn't. And, and unfortunately for her, I think most of that came out of world weariness. And I think she didn't talk about her childhood very much, but, or at all. But I have a feeling some really awful things happened to her as a little girl. And so she was very world weary. So she didn't put up the pretense, you know, like, I can do the cashmere speak. She did not at all, at all. And she would cuss someone out. We could cuss in the house. We could, you know, and, you know, I felt growing up, my role was to sort of lift her up. And I did. And I would do my impersonations for her, you know, of Tina Turner or Geraldine from the Flip Wilson show. But she was, she had a dark, dark cloud over her. And I related to that. I understood it very well. Because if you look at the world with X ray eyes, there is so much darkness and sadness. So I choose joy. Now, that doesn't mean that I don't recognize the darkness or the pain. And I do. I look at the darkness, but I don't stare at it. I'm gonna say that again so you motherfuckers can get it. I look at the darkness. Darkness, but I don't stare because it will suck you in. And you are a powerful witch. You are powerful. You can create whatever life you want. Life asked, what do you want me to be? Okay, I'll be that.

[RuPaul]

I also was just thinking, I may be butchering this. I remember there was this One line that you wrote about her basically saying something about, like, if I'm not paying their taxes, why the do I give a. What they're doing?

[Sydney Sweeney]

If they ain't paying your bills, pay them no mind. That was my mother. And it's true. And it's, It's. It's. It's sort of, you know, the same philosophy as what other people think of me is none of my business.

[RuPaul]

I'm curious, though. When you talk about your mother in the book, as, you know, strong as she was like there as a child, it seemed like there wasn't a lot of this, like, affection and, like, coming to you with love. Like, how do you think you internalize that as a child?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Yeah, well, I. First of all, I put her first and I understood what her pain was, so I guess I justified her not being that affectionate or that. That. That sort of idea of mothering that we all think of. She was not that. In adulthood, I understood that. Oh, she probably could have been more loving. But at the time, I felt empathy for her because I knew that she was in so much pain. I mean, she was always. The whole time of my childhood, she was at war with my father, you know, and it made me feel like a diplomat. And it. It taught me how to read the room and figure out what people needed. I knew what I could say around my father and what I could say around my mother. These warring factors and to not incriminate one or the other. I knew how to. To give them what they wanted without. Without telling. Giving too much information about my mother to my father and vice versa.

[RuPaul]

You talk about this big moment where your mom finds out that your dad was cheating on her in the book. Can you kind of like, talk to me about that day? Because it was a pretty intense day.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Well, he was. He'd always been, you know, out seeing other women, but this was this one. I guess this time it just rubbed her the wrong way. And. And we will circle back around to the whole idea of cheating, too, because, you know, x ray eyes on a situation is. Is cheating really a thing? I mean, come on, people do things. Men want to spread it around. It's just the animal that. That they are. Now, if someone promises you that, that all of this area here is going to be only for them, they're lying. You think, oh, no, not think, darling, not think. Rue that it's. And I know for women, they're like, oh, no, he's going to be mine forever. Say, who the are you fooling?

[RuPaul]

So everyone's cheating it's not.

[Sydney Sweeney]

It's not cheating if you say you're gonna save all of this area for one person. You are cheating on yourself. You are cheating on yourself.

[RuPaul]

Should I not get married? I'm engaged.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Listen, you get married, do whatever you want, but why would you. To the person you love the most, why would you put restrictions on them? If. And your best friend in the whole wide world, who you love more than anyone else, why would you say, okay, if you're presented with a situation that is so fabulous and so lovely, I don't want you to do it?

[RuPaul]

That is like the. That is such an interesting way to look at it, and I love it.

[Sydney Sweeney]

You can get mad at me all you want with this philosophy. I didn't come up with it. It's just my observation. And it's. It's true. And I grew up, you know, I'm around men. And men who are listening to this are going, yeah. They're like, he's right.

[RuPaul]

Look away, look away.

[Sydney Sweeney]

No, it's true. It's true. So, yeah, what happened with my mother and father, two people who should have never been together. You know, he parked the car in the garage of our house, and she poured gasoline all over the car and said, motherfucker, I will light this bitch up. And I'm five years old. My sisters. Rosie is four. Renette are seven years older than me. We're across the street from the house looking at this scene, and the whole neighborhood is out there watching. And she's like, I will. And Irving is my father saying, tony, please, please don't. Don't. And she's. She's got a pack of matches in her hand saying, I will do it. I'll do it. Eventually, Sister Harris from her church comes and. And talks her out of it. And everything is gone. The fire trucks are there, everything. But when I think back on this scene, I'm not in my body. I'm actually like a camera on a. On a dolly or a jib looking at the whole scene, moving around the scene like a camera outside of my body. And what happens with young people, and we all do this, is we disassociate. And so that the trauma of what's going on doesn't affect us on an emotional level. We separate from our bodies. We are. We separate from our bodies. And so I don't remember coming back into my body until I got sober, which was when I. Right. Right before I turned 40. I was outside of my body the whole time because it wasn't safe enough to be in there, with those feelings.

[RuPaul]

When you look back at that moment, what does it make you feel for your younger self?

[Sydney Sweeney]

I feel. I feel sad for my younger self. I absolutely do.

[RuPaul]

You. Let's talk about your relationship with your father, because I know that you wrote that you felt very abandoned by him in moments in your life, and I'm wondering if you can kind of just like, paint the picture of that dynamic and if there are specific memories that.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Come up at the time. I felt abandoned by him. But through years and years and years and years of therapy, I realized he had abandoned himself. It wasn't personal. It's like reading the comments on YouTube or whatever about yourself. It has nothing to do with me. It had everything to do with him. I think I'm talking too fast. I need to say that all of that.

[RuPaul]

No, this is good.

[Sydney Sweeney]

One more time.

[RuPaul]

So we can, like, go. So you want. Or we can go, like, super slow.

[Sydney Sweeney]

I, I. People really need to understand what I just said, which is that it had nothing to do with me. Of course, as a child, I thought, he. He just doesn't like me. He does. No, he didn't like himself. Baby, it had nothing to do with you. Now, my ego wanted to make it about me. But no, no, he. He. I saw a psychic 30 years ago who said, well, your father. You and your father shared past lives together. So when you came into this. When you came into this life together, you were like, hey, buddy, it's you. Let's party. Let's boogie. Hey, we're gonna have a. We're gonna. We're gonna rule the school. But he could not see me. And I spent so much time saying, wait, you need joy. I'll give you some of my joy. You need. You need a reminder. Let me remind you of who you are. Could not see it. And through therapy, I realized, well, he couldn't see it, because for a person to become present in this moment, and this is true of every human on this planet, to be present in this moment would invite you to recognize how much pain you're in right now. So we distract ourselves with whatever we can get our hands on to not experience the depth of pain that we are in, but to move forward in this life, you have to walk through that fire. You have to walk through that pain to get to the other side. There's no other way.

[RuPaul]

There isn't. And I think it's. It can take people a lifetime. It. Some people never get to that point. Some people engage in therapy, and then they're like, oh, fuck, I Don't want to do this, but it's like, like you have to open it up to actually see what's in there, to then get through it, to get on the other side. You're right. And I think about the. This, this moment that you write about in the book where you would sit outside your house on the steps and you're waiting for your dad, and you're waiting for your dad. And I think you're so right. Where so many people can relate, probably, that are listening to, like, yearning for, from, like, their parents for something that they want. And you're so right. Like, it had nothing to do with you. He wasn't not showing up because he's like, God, I hate Rue. I don't want to see his face when I pull up to the house. You're sitting there being like, he didn't come home because of me. And it's like it literally had nothing to do with you.

[Sydney Sweeney]

That's right.

[RuPaul]

But that's hard to understand at such a young age. So you just internalize it. Like, damn, my dad hates me. He's abandoned me. I'm nothing. Like, what's wrong with me.

[Sydney Sweeney]

That's right.

[RuPaul]

How did your relationship with your father inform the. The romantic relationships and men you ended up pursuing and choosing?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Well, obviously I, I never got that. That validation from my father. So, of course, playing the role of Rue's father today is so and so. And it would be the. It's like, it's like the exact replica. Charming, charismatic, good looking, but not available. So I would replay this thing over and over, relationship after relationship, until I ultimately met George, who was someone who chased me, chased me, and I didn't know what to do. I said, you know, okay, so let me, okay, what's that gonna look like? I'm so used to being the chaser. So to allow someone to chase me, it. It changed everything. It changed everything. And of course, I had to get in touch with my ability to love.

[RuPaul]

Myself, even just to accept it. Like, even you saying, like, which we're gonna get to. Like, when you met your husband, it must have been such a strange feeling to accept a love that you had never experienced. Your mother being distant, your father not showing up for you to then have someone pursuing you. You're like, what the is going on? Like, this feels good, but what's off? And so in a strange way, a lot of the times, the, the. The thing we're used to, that is what we gravitate towards because it's the norm, even if it's toxic. And even if it's unhealthy and it's like what the preach, right?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Preach.

[RuPaul]

It's testify. You're like, I love this. And it's like, but you watched your father abuse your mother. You watched it. So it as up as it is. Well, that you never saw a healthy relationship. So how would you know, like not to be scared when someone is just being loving, being nice, coming to you, pursuing you. You're not begging for attention and affection and love. You're like, like the is going on run. Something must be off. Did I do. Is it disingenuine? Is he lying? Is he using me? What is like you, you spiral and then you run back to what you're used to and you're like, how do we end the cycle? Which you eventually did. But let's pause. We need to stay in the 20s. We need to stay in the 20s. Then we'll get to the husband.

[Sydney Sweeney]

But what you're describing is an abused child who's taken away from abusive home, leaves there and longs to go back home because that is what they know. And oppressed people take on the characteristic of their oppressor. And how do you break that cycle? You have to, you have to hit some type of rock bottom to get to that place. And it is the most difficult thing you will ever do in your entire life.

[RuPaul]

When you talk about these early relationships that you went through before you found your husband, you say it felt like you would absorb your parents toxic behaviors and patterns. Parents relatable. I understand you would like go for people that weren't available, but like, take me to a moment in a room with someone, like, what were you putting up with? And then you would pause and be like, am I literally replicating what my parents did? Like, how am I here?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Well, what, what the biggest offense is not trusting your instinct and your intuition about something. This is something they don't tell you. What getting old gives you is that you learn to trust your intuition about a situation, a person. And you. When you are, you know, somewhat hypnotized by a person, like I was early 20s, all of that intuition, you, you, you push it to the side because you think, this is exactly what I need. This is what I need. Looks like the, the validation I'm or in love, I, I was supposed to get from my father or from my mother, but that, that, that never works. And in fact the only validation you ever need really is from your adult self to your child.

[RuPaul]

Yeah, it's just, it's so hard to Break the cycle. And, and I want to talk about your 20s. You became this well known performer in the club scene. And I know you referenced like, like I was dissociating most of my life until I got sober. And so let's talk about when you weren't sober. Taking the partying too far, indulging so heavily in these moments. Can you talk to me about your club life back then?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Yeah. Well, listen, I have no regret. I used for 30 years. I have no regret. The first 20 were a blast. Had a great time. It was his last 10 that were pure hell. I had a blast. Had a blast until it didn't work anymore. And it, and you know what? Thank God for the drugs and alcohol because it saved my life from. It gave me a layaway plan, a deferment plan until I, I was strong enough to deal with what was going on. And thankfully I felt I found a 12 step program that really, really, really helped me so much that I am in love with. And so I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for that. I would not be here if it wasn't the success I have today. I wouldn't have that if it weren't for this 12 step program because it takes you through a process of walking back to the scene of the crime and forgiving yourself and giving you the tools, the processing tools to deal with all of the trauma of what life is. You know, we all live with so much trauma and you know, I feel that not just America, I think the whole world is. Needs to hit rock bottom before we can pull ourselves up because we, you know, there are two ways to learn. You can learn intellectually or you can learn by hitting your head on the, on the, on the corner of the thing. Mama said, rue, don't touch that stove. Now if I was smart, I would thought, well, mom has been around for a while. She. She probably knows the right thing. I'm gonna touch the stove. That's who we are.

[RuPaul]

We touch this, we are bashing our heads against everything. And I agree with you. I think there's gonna have to be a rebuild moment. I appreciate the way you just explained though, like the drugs and the alcohol and what they were for you. Because I think, think people that haven't had hardship in their life are the people that are like, why don't you just leave? The abusive relationship, why don't you just leave, just stop. And it's like the pain that you're describing and the pain that people go through when they do dissociate, there Is like a level where like you actually can't re engage with your reality until you're ready. It's like how I always talk with friends who have been through certain things. They're like, should I get into therapy? I'm like, like, when you're ready. Not because I'm saying, like, you really need it, of course you know you need it. But when are you ready to actually accept it instead of everyone shoving you in the door, Go to rehab, go get help. No, no. When do you know you're ready? Everyone has a different threshold. Everyone needs to go at a different pace. But the judgment around people that aren't ready, I think we need to have some grace because it is not that linear and simple. It's just not.

[Sydney Sweeney]

It's not.

[RuPaul]

And people are just assholes about it. I'm curious, like, when you look back at that time in your life, as fun as it was, did you have any like self sabotaging tendencies back then at all?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Well, the only. Obviously drugs and alcohol put you in situations that could be highly dangerous. And I was in those situations really mostly aside from the drugs that was, was with people that I was attracted to and trying to, to relive the situation with my father and I guess really with my mother too, you know, trying to find a situation that would feed my soul. I was looking for soul food and I was looking for a way to fill that void when ultimately that void had to be filled by me.

[RuPaul]

You talk about how you for a while were like quite uncomfortable with the idea of being wanted, being desired. What types of things were you doing to avoid being seen sexually?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Oh, listen, I didn't have to do anything to not be sexually. Here's the thing, you know, I've always been an oddball. I don't fit into anyone's description of what sexual. This in the sexual hierarchy. Right? The sexual hierarchy is, oh, he's a daddy. Oh, you're a twink, you're. And there's a whole list of those things. I never fit into any of those things until the first time I got into drag. People, men or straight men, went, oh, you're that. And when. And it scared me. It shocked me because I'd never experienced that kind of. What's the word? Where you're being objectified? Objectified.

[RuPaul]

Object.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Objectification. I'm never, I'd never experienced that before because I never fit into the sexual hierarchy of Voila. So when I got into drag, just as a fluke, my band was doing this thing and we gotten a drag Okay. I couldn't believe the attention that I got. And I wasn't doing high glam drag. I was doing. I didn't shave my legs, my hairy chest. I. You know, a smeared lipstick, and just. It was like punk rock, you know, drag. But I noticed a difference in the energy I was getting.

[Alex Cooper]

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[RuPaul]

Definitely don't have time to wash my hair every day. Okay. If I'm lucky, I can maybe wash it, like, once a week.

[Alex Cooper]

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[RuPaul]

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[Alex Cooper]

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[RuPaul]

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[Alex Cooper]

Were like, alex, can I borrow your dry shampoo again? The girls know I am always coming.

[RuPaul]

With with multiple bottles of Batiste Light in my suitcase, because when I'm on the go, I definitely need some help.

[Alex Cooper]

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[RuPaul]

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[Alex Cooper]

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[RuPaul]

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[Alex Cooper]

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[Alex Cooper]

And you know what?

[RuPaul]

The last thing I want to do is when the UV is a 10 outside, go to the grocery store. Okay, that's not my to do list. Okay. I love that on Ubereats, I can get tequila for the margaritas. I can get meat for the barbecue and sunscreen when I realize that my tan is unfortunately Turning into a burn. Okay. And when it gets too hot in LA to be running outside doing errands, I'm just like, oh, I need to be inside. I love that I can sit in.

[Alex Cooper]

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[RuPaul]

Let's talk about George, because it almost made me tear up when you teared up the very beginning of this interview. You just mentioned his name and got teary eyed and I don't know, like what comes up for you when you.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Even just saying he's lovely, he's lovely person. He can be, he's grumpy, he's, he's angry, he's all of those things, but he's lovely. He really is. He's a lovely person and I like him more than anybody else.

[RuPaul]

I mean, I think that's great too because you obviously love being alone. So someone who loves being alone so much, I'm very similar. I sit here and I perform all day and I need to get the home. Don't talk to me, don't look at me. And my fiance just knows like, let her be alone. But I do appreciate his company, which makes me know, oh, I actually like him. I actually like you. What was it about him when you met him that you remember being like this man is different other than him pursuing you?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Well, it was the fact that he was kind and that I trusted him. I trusted him with my feelings because, you know, growing up with in between two warring factors, my parents were so obsessed with their own psychodramas that it wasn't, it wasn't a safe place for me to feel nurtured. You know, like you mentioned that my father's weekends with the, with my sister and I, he was meant to pick us up at that morning and we'd sit on the porch and wait for him all day. And when I mean, when I say all day, I mean sitting on that porch all day, he would never show up up waiting for him. And we'd say, Rosie and I would say, next car is going to be daddy. Next car is going to be daddy. We do that all day long. And so I, I didn't trust my parents with my feelings. You know, I Would, you know, I would sort of mother my mother with, you know, Joy and bring her up and all that kind of stuff. So when I met George, I could tell from the moment I met him that he was lovely and kind and I could trust him with my feelings, that he wouldn't hurt my feelings. He has never hurt my feelings. Never. And my mother, when I was my mother, said to me, rue, you're too goddamn sensitive. I was five years old at the time. Five, she said. She also said, rue, you reminisce too much. And I was five. Five years of reminiscing. But, you know, it was insight into her because years later, as an adult, I learned that she was actually to warn me to not do what she did. And I, I. It was very telling about her that she was too sensitive and that she reminisced too much.

[Alex Cooper]

Interesting.

[Sydney Sweeney]

So. And that didn't occur to me. I only got that probably 10 years ago, where I went, oh, right. That's what that was. So anyway, George was so open and not secretive. He was just open. In fact, I tell this story at one point when we first started dating, he. He asked me, hey, can I floss your teeth? No, you can't floss my teeth. What? I never heard of it. Why?

[RuPaul]

Why did he want to floss your teeth?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Because he wanted to be that intimate with me. He was, it was, you know, and I never forgot that because it just that someone would want what.

[RuPaul]

But now when you look back on.

[Alex Cooper]

And saying that, like, how does that.

[RuPaul]

Make you feel when you reflect on him saying that to you?

[Sydney Sweeney]

It makes me feel like he wanted to be. He wanted not only be inside me, but he wanted to be a part of me. That, that level of intimacy I had never experienced before. And, and it, it allowed it. It was a signal to the child who lives inside of me that it's okay. You can relax with him. You can relax with him. He's not going anywhere. In fact, we split up at. When we got sober together. We split up. Still couldn't shake it. Him couldn't. We still called three times a day. And ultimately we did get back together again and, you know, eventually got married.

[Alex Cooper]

I want to go through that too.

[RuPaul]

Because it's a very. Breaking up with someone that you then end up with is rare. I feel like it, it takes a really special bond. But just going back to what you just said, it's so. It's so inspiring to see, like, the trauma you went through and the partners you would choose that were replicating just what you watch with your mother and father, then finding George, it's interesting to see, like, even the way you just spoke, like, you got calmer, it got more still, you could be yourself. Like, in what ways? Once you started to engage in a healthy relationship, how long did it take you to actually trust and be yourself? Because I'm sure there are people listening, like, rue, I hope. Hope to God one day get to where you're at. Like, how long did it actually take once you met him, to be like, trust. Don't bring up my old. Like, don't put on him what I've done in other relationships. Like, that's a lot of work.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Yeah. No, and don't trust me. I. You know, I. The. The beast still came out, you know, in our relationship and. And my distrust. But soon enough, you know, he would put me at ease. And, you know, it takes time. And, you know, even the time that we were apart, we both realized that there's no one I like more. And the chances of me meeting someone who I felt that comfortable with and that much myself with is very rare. Very rare. You know, when we're young, we think, oh, I've got all the choices in the world. And when you look back, I'm 63. You look back and you go, there were very few. Few situations where. Where people had their. Had all their shit together, not together, you know, bank accounts and all that kind of stuff. I'm not talking about that. But knew enough about themselves to not hurt you and. And project their own hurt out at you.

[RuPaul]

You.

[Sydney Sweeney]

You know, which is, I think, what my parents. My parents did and, you know, and I can forgive them now. There's a book called Toxic Parents that really helped me a lot by Dr. Susan Forward that really walks. Walked me through the steps of. Of overcoming the trauma of my parents.

[RuPaul]

I think it's also incredible because sometimes, like, we run away from things that make us feel good, depending on again, our trauma of, like, this can't be this good. And I think with George, it's so clear that, like, although you were both going through things, which I do want to talk about with addiction, like, you knew at the core how you felt around this human being, and that is something that lasts forever, how someone makes you feel. You never shake that. And you did break up. Can we talk about that just a little bit of, like, how did you decide? Because it was mainly you, right, that did decide. Like, we need to put this on pause.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Well, it was. It was mutual. What happened was we had this condo in Florida, in Miami, that George was redoing. And I learned that he had been addicted to crystal meth, which is the devil. So I put him into rehab and then brought him to 12 step program. And I went with him to support him in this 12 step program, only to realize this was for me. I need this. And I realized too that I had been living my fame and fortune through George, vicariously through George. So I realized that, that if I am living through him and he's in this much trouble, that's how much trouble I'm in.

[RuPaul]

You were living your fame through George? What do you mean by that?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Well, when, when at 5, when I had dissociated and separated, became a. A jib, a camera on a jib. I realized I had not come back into my body. So because it was not safe, it didn't feel comfortable for me to feel my feelings firsthand. I could feel my feelings through him. You know, we, you know, we'd be flying to Dusseldorf on Elton John's private jet and he'd be like, oh my God, this is great. So I'd be happy because it informed me, this is great. This is great. But I could not feel my feelings firsthand.

[RuPaul]

Right. You're like looking for the outside validation of the, like, what is going on here? Like, oh, this is great. Great. This is great.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Sure.

[RuPaul]

For sure.

[Sydney Sweeney]

George.

[RuPaul]

What? Like, interesting.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Yes. And it wasn't until I got sober that I was able to bring my feelings and my camera in through my own eyes.

[RuPaul]

But when you looked at George and you recognized he was addicted to crystal meth, that is also when you said, well, I also have an addiction problem.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I, I'd always used. I'd use. I started using when I was 10 years old. I started using, started smoking weed when I was 10 years. Listen, Alex, it was a different time. It was San Diego, California. It's a different thing. It's not like, like the way people think of it today.

[RuPaul]

Do you remember when you tried your first hard drug?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Yes. I was probably 13. And back then there was something called Red Devils. And I took a Red devil pill. I don't know where I got it.

[RuPaul]

It.

[Sydney Sweeney]

I don't know. But what was it like?

[RuPaul]

Like, what is the effects?

[Sydney Sweeney]

I don't know if. I don't remember if it was an upper or a downer. I really do not remember. But I do remember it was around that time, but I was. I wasn't afraid of drugs. I never, I never shot up or anything. But, you know, but also the, the big thing was that I never had any money, so I was at the mercy of whoever I was around. Down.

[Alex Cooper]

Right.

[Sydney Sweeney]

You know, and then in my 20s, this is. I just. I shouldn't say this, but I'm going to. In my 20s, every. I dropped acid every weekend. Throughout my 20s, every weekend, like, four hits of acid every weekend. Have you ever dropped acid?

[RuPaul]

I have never done it. What does it feel like?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Well, I'll tell you.

[RuPaul]

Okay.

[Sydney Sweeney]

It's. I. Well, we're gonna. Listen, you're an adult.

[RuPaul]

Really don't do asking.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Yeah, yeah, whatever.

[RuPaul]

Yeah, it's incredible.

[Sydney Sweeney]

It's incredible because it was the. It was the. It was the. The proof I had that this world is an illusion, that everything you think you know about solid objects or what people are is a lie. And I. I had that. I had that suspicion before I dropped acid. So when I dropped acid, it was like, yes, this is exactly. And the people who freak out, and I, you know, I used to, you know, drop. And some people would freak out, you know, that means you were like, oh, my God. Those are the people who. It never occurred to them that this is an illusion. From the day I was born, I thought, this is an illusion.

[RuPaul]

So the minute you dropped acid, you're like, damn right.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Yeah. It lifts the veil of. Of the illusion, the fantasy that we are all we collectively agree to in our lives.

[RuPaul]

Did you, like, when you got so famous and you're in New York and. And people know who you are? Like, were you at all ever paranoid that people were going to be like, RuPaul?

[Sydney Sweeney]

It's like.

[RuPaul]

Like, up. Or there's something. You know what I mean?

[Sydney Sweeney]

I do. I was downtown famous in my 20s, but I didn't get world famous until I was 32. 32, and I had stopped doing chemicals. I just. I was just smoking weed then. And then in my late 30s as doing a little bit of coke, a little bit too much coke, but really in private with friends, but. So I would never be. I would be stoned. I was always stoned from. You know, I was awake in Baker.

[RuPaul]

I'm curious, like, you're so famous, and how does that make you feel?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Like, you know, it's. You know, it doesn't feel any different from when I was 5 years old and the kids in the neighborhood said, oh, you're a. They, they. I was always pointed out. I was always singled out and said, said, huh, you're something. You're something different. I didn't know the. What the connotation. I didn't know that was sex. It didn't have a sex. I thought, oh, okay, at, you know, five years old. So. But the. My point is that I've always felt singled out, that there was something going on with me, and I had to learn to accept that. So does it feel any different from back then? No, it doesn't. It feels like I have a purpose that I came here to do, and it's part of it, because I just.

[RuPaul]

Am curious because knowing that a lot of performers, I think, are introverts that become extroverts on stage when they're performing. Like, I know a lot of musicians that are like, oh, my God, when I get on stage, it's a complete alter ego. Like, that's not me. I go home and I'm like, in my PJs and makeup off and not focused on, like, that Persona. But do you ever have moments or. Have you ever had a moment in your career where you. You've resented the Persona you've built?

[Sydney Sweeney]

No. No, because I, I take that off. It. That's. That's. It's a, A, A, A part of me, but it's not. It's not who I, I am. And thankfully, you know, you know, drag is. Is so brilliant because it's like a. It's like a wink, wink, nudge, nudge at the facade that we were talking about, where, you know, that, that, you know, being on tripping, you know, breaks through. That drag is an extension of that wink, wink, nudge, nudge. And so it's not really to be taken seriously. It's paint powder. But I never once thought that's who I am.

[RuPaul]

Right. Yeah. It's supposed to be fun. You're supposed to enjoy it.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Absolutely.

[RuPaul]

People take too seriously, take stuff too seriously, read into it too much. You're like, it's not that deep.

[Sydney Sweeney]

It's not that deep. It's really not.

[RuPaul]

You know, I want to circle back just to conclude that conversation about George. Like, the book kind of ends like, you're not really together. And I thought that was such an interesting stylistic choice of, like, why. How did you decide to end it like that?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Because it was the real. The death of my old self, and this has been the rebirth of my life. This. This is a whole other book. This part, part. You know, in this business, if you get seven years in this business, you've done great.

[RuPaul]

Fabulous.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Great. But for me to have the opportunity to have another bite of the apple because I got my shit together. Amazing. So that's a whole other story. So, you know, ending it, ending it at my Getting sober with was. Felt like the natural place.

[RuPaul]

And I feel like, from what I've read and looked up, like, you and George are pretty, like, notoriously private people together with your relationship. Like, how did you decide and did you talk to him about that? You were going to write about these, like, pretty intimate details of your lives?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Oh, he doesn't give a.

[RuPaul]

It's like, just go. Just right.

[Sydney Sweeney]

No, they were, you know, going on this book tour, and the people were saying, hey, we've got some. Some seats set aside for George. Do you want. He doesn't want to go to that. He didn't care about that. Stop.

[RuPaul]

I love it.

[Sydney Sweeney]

He doesn't know who any pop stars are. He doesn't.

[RuPaul]

He doesn't care.

[Sydney Sweeney]

He don't care.

[RuPaul]

So refreshing, though.

[Sydney Sweeney]

He does not care.

[RuPaul]

But that must be nice for your life.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Oh, yeah, right?

[RuPaul]

To come home to someone that's literally like, I don't care.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Yeah. No, he doesn't give a. About.

[RuPaul]

You're like, babe, guess what I did today? He's like, I care what you did, but I don't actually care who was in the room. You're like, beyonce was there. He's like, like, huh?

[Sydney Sweeney]

He knows who she is. He would care. Let's see, who would he care about? He loves Aretha Franklin. Of course, she's dead now.

[RuPaul]

Yeah, she's dead. She can't walk in the room.

[Sydney Sweeney]

But actually, he went with me. I thank God he was with me. In 1995, he went with me to Detroit. I performed at Aretha Franklin's birthday party, and we were in the end, and her assistant came in with the check for me that she had written for my payment. This is before I went on stage. And the check was written out to Ruth Paul, signed Aretha Franklin. Ruth Paul. And of course, I couldn't keep it. I wanted to keep. But thank God George was there with me so he could see it, so that it wasn't. I didn't dream this up. It's really real. They took the check back and wrote it out to RuPaul, but.

[RuPaul]

Oh, my God. But. So he met her.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Yes.

[RuPaul]

So he hasn't been stunned since 1995. George hasn't lived since 1985. He hasn't felt something.

[Sydney Sweeney]

I don't. I'm trying to think who he would be starstruck by. He wouldn't be starstruck. But anyway, he. You know, this sounds weird, like I'm trying to gain him points, but he is more starstruck by animals. And he knows the name of Every flower. And he knows the name of every animal, like what they. What they are. He knows the breed of every dog. So he. And. And you know, he. Children gravitate toward. He's that person.

[RuPaul]

Why do we give a about celebrities anymore? I want to know dogs, animals, the flowers, the insects. Let's go, George.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Well, don't get me wrong, listen. He's got his faults. He's got his faults.

[Alex Cooper]

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[RuPaul]

You mentioned drag and it's just, it is so incredible to have a Show on its 16th season that's kind of unheard of. Like, there's very few shows in the world that like go that long. Do you remember the beginning date?

[Sydney Sweeney]

I do.

[RuPaul]

Like, what does it make you think to like, look at this empire that you've built? Like, you just must be so proud.

[Sydney Sweeney]

I am very proud. I'm most, most proud of the contestants who have come through there who are so lovely and so courageous to allow their stories to be told and to share those stories of courage with people around the world.

[RuPaul]

What do you think is the biggest misconception about Dragon?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Oh, I don't know. You know, I stopped trying to figure out what people think or try to make put any credence on what other people think. People are, are crazy, are weird.

[RuPaul]

Yeah, I remember you said that in the beginning of this interview. And I'm like, that feels like that's the episode title. People are weird.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Well, you know, when you free yourself from that, when, you know, my mother said if they ain't paying your bills, pay them no mind or you know, whether people think of me as none of my business, when you free yourself of the that it leaves so much room for your own frequency to, to resonate and, and transmit through you. Because that, that kind of thinking of what other people think of you takes up so much space.

[Alex Cooper]

It's exhausting.

[Sydney Sweeney]

It's exhausting.

[Alex Cooper]

We don't have time.

[Sydney Sweeney]

There's no time. And you know, when I, When I hit 30, I realized the biggest lesson I got when I was turned 30 was I don't have to like everyone and everyone doesn't have to like Me, me.

[Alex Cooper]

Amen. Like we're so.

[RuPaul]

Some people are so pressed being like they don't understand. They don't. Like who cares? Do you know you? Do you understand you? Does your family, friends or whoever the you give a about know you done?

[Sydney Sweeney]

There you go.

[RuPaul]

You're going to exhaust yourself. You're not even going to know who you are by the end. If you're trying to appease every person. Especially with the Internet you got in Kansas saying you're a loser. Who cares?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you had X ray eyes to see where that in Kansas was. That is in a basement with a big. With Internet, but in a basement nonetheless.

[RuPaul]

They've got their mother's basement, their mother's basement, the mother's WI fi and they're in keyword warrior. Like you're a loser. Shut up. In Kansas. God. We're done with you can't take these. Okay, you write in your book. Book you're born naked and the rest is drag. What do you mean by that?

[Sydney Sweeney]

So you are born naked. So that concept allows you to create.

[RuPaul]

Yeah.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Whatever life you want. You are a co creator with whatever the source is. I mean some people say, God, some people say whatever. Whatever you choose to be the source, you are a co creator with that. That's a lot of responsibility.

[RuPaul]

It is a lot. But it's also, it is exciting if you look at it in the right way. Like we do have for the most part autonomy over ourselves. Yeah, sort of.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Sort of.

[RuPaul]

You don't need to get into the laws going on right now yourselves. But you know, it is exciting to know you can control yourself. And I think sometimes we get a little in the clouds and we start to look around us too much where it's like, why are you trying to be like that person? That person, that person. Why are you trying to people, what do you want?

[Sydney Sweeney]

Yeah.

[RuPaul]

And I don't think we ask ourselves that enough because I don't think we're taught it. Like you said at the be in the middle of this interview you were like, my mom told me, like, stop being emotional ruin. Stop doing this. But it was all again, projection from your mother. It's like, well, maybe the most beautiful part of you is that you're emotional. Sure, maybe you should lean into that. What do you want? And I think we can take from this especially just like live the way that you want to live and block out as much noise as you possibly can. It's hard, but when you do it, there is some peace and quiet that you can Find within yourself.

[Sydney Sweeney]

It is hard. And.

[RuPaul]

And.

[Sydney Sweeney]

And of course, it all roads lead to. Are you willing to be in this moment with yourself? Which is a tall order, because the first thing you would recognize if you did that was how much pain you're in. So, again, you have to walk through that fire, which is painful, to get to your true self. Because a lot of us, we sweep the emotions. In my case, I dissociate it with myself. We sweep a lot of our feelings under the rug. I did that with drugs and alcohol until I had to pay the bill. And when you look at the bill, you're like, what?

[RuPaul]

It's big and long.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Wait, who ordered the Pellegrino?

[RuPaul]

What does the Pellegrino stand for in your life, Rue? What does it symbolize?

[Sydney Sweeney]

You know, and you. So you have to. You literally have to go through all of the stuff that you. You put away before you can move forward, forward. So that's why most people don't accept the challenge of creating the life they were meant to have. Most people, you know, go with plan A or plan B. And a lot of times, I think, because plan A or plan B doesn't really fit your needs, you will use drugs and alcohol to numb the pain. That's what we're all. I mean, we're a culture of addicts. We're all addicted to something. But imagine if we were taught how to process those feelings. I use drugs and alcohols to process, to deal with feelings I didn't know how to process until eventually I did learn how to process those feelings. Imagine a world, a culture of people who could do that.

[RuPaul]

When we're able to do that, I think the amount of, like, peace and unity that will come from all different walks of life and all different backgrounds, we're seeing so far from that. But you're so right. It's like we're not taught to process. So we're angry and we're miserable and we're anxious and we're insecure and we are lost. And I appreciate you coming on today and just talking through this, because I do. I think it's so inspiring for people listening the way you talk about your memoir being almost like this other part of you that now is put to bed and there's now a complete new book, basically, that's being created right now as you're sitting here and the way you're living your life. I think we need to start to look at ourselves that way of, like, you can have been many different people in your life, and it doesn't define you, it's part of you. But I think every new chapter is on you to decide how it's going to be written. So I hope this was fun.

[Sydney Sweeney]

It was fun.

[RuPaul]

Did it get better?

[Sydney Sweeney]

No, it's, it's actually, it was a lot of fun. And I love what you're saying there because what the truth is, it's about the, the crucifixion and the resurrection. And once you're able to be reborn into your higher self, that's when the party really begins. And that's why I feel like this, the, the party for me, you know, when I got sober really started, you know, and I needed to put that first part to bed. And that's what the House of Hidden Meanings is about.

[RuPaul]

It's incredible. Everyone please go read it. And congratulations to you because it is so cool to see like, like, I love that you did a memoir where it stops at 1999, basically like 2000, something like that. And, and now it's like, what's Next? Love it. RuPaul, thank you so much for coming on Color Daddy. It truly was a pleasure.

[Sydney Sweeney]

Thank you.

[RuPaul]

Thank you. Foreign.

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