Alex Cooper (3:39)

Because I can't believe I'm going to say this, but lately I have found myself just really missing learning, you know, you couldn't pay me to say those words. When I was in high school, middle school, high school, college, I was like a good student, but I didn't want to be. Like, I wasn't happy. You know what I mean? I wasn't enjoying studying. I wasn't enjoying doing all these things. Like, I actually really quite hated it. So I know that may sound weird, but it's the honest truth. Like, I feel like for so much of our lives, yes. Although we may not enjoy it when we're in school, and then even in the start of our careers, we're learning all the time, whether we want to or not. And we're constantly being exposed to. To new ideas, and we're being forced to grow and evolve. And then as you get older, you kind of settle into your life and your career, and that external push to keep learning really starts to go away. And then it becomes solely on you to stay curious and interested in wanting to learn and expand your knowledge of the world. And a lot of us are like, sayonara, I'm never opening a textbook again. Which is so fair. Which is so fair, because I feel like a lot of us are traumatized from school and like, the SATs or, you know, midterms. And you're like, I don't want to. I don't want to do this again. I want to watch Gilmore Girls and Gossip Girl. And that is my education. That is so fair. Okay. But I will say that I have noticed, and I'm sure it's not this way for people directly out of college. But as I'm, you know, entering my 30s, and I'm in my early 30s now, like, I will say I've noticed just how much better I feel when I am taking time to learn just for the sake of it. Whether it's, you know, spending a day reading articles or watching a documentary or reading a book that I wouldn't normally pick up. It just feels good to be curious and to think on topics that aren't in my immediate worldview. What a concept. And so why I'm bringing this up on Caller Daddy on a random Sunday session is because I realized I'm not alone in this. I have seen so many videos on the Internet of people being like, I'm like, craving some form of substance and intelligence back in my life. And I feel like so much of our life right now is consumed by the Internet. And obviously at times it is. There is nothing better than to sit and relax and watch people make new food recipes that you're gonna save and you're gonna never make or try on makeup. And you're watching them try on the makeup and the clothes and all the things. Lovely. But I do feel like a lot of us are starting to kind of hit a wall where we feel like, okay, my brain is literally rotting and I need to stimulate myself in order to actually learn something and so that I can continue to evolve and have interesting thoughts and conversations with myself and also other people. Like, what a concept. But. And so today I kind of want to start carving out time on these Sunday sessions to just do that together. This isn't going to be me, like, preaching at you guys. I'm trying to also learn myself, and I kind of want to make this.

Alex Cooper (6:40)

Like a little book club for us.

Alex Cooper (6:42)

It's going to be bite sized podcasts where I'm going to compile articles, essays, think pieces, and talk to therapists when we could obviously use an expert opinion on a topic. But when I find something interesting or ideally even challenging to understand that I think I am interested in, and you guys would be interested in, I am going to bring it here and we will get into it together. Okay? This is not turning into an educational podcast. Okay? We're not Going to be talking about the microbiome. Unless you want me to do that. You know, we could go back to the plasma. I was never good in science, and, um. No, but I just. I think it's important. Like, I went to a dinner the other night with my husband and some of our friends, and someone brought up this question, and I was like, oh, I was recently reading a book that talked about this, one of the chapters. And everyone was like, tell us more, Alex. And I don't know the last time anyone has done that at a dinner table with me other than they were like, tell us what it was like to interview Kim Kardashian. Or tell us what it was like to interview. Which is still so fun. But this was something where I was like, oh, my God, I'm actually bringing information and I'm sharing things with people that people are like, wait, that's fascinating. What is the book called? And I want to read it. So you know what? It is kind of fun to feel like you're smart, even if you're just learning it from a book and you're retaining it. What a concept. Let's try to do that a little bit more often. And if you don't want to read the book, great. I will distill it down to you from me reading the fucking books for you guys. Okay, so let's get into it this week. We're starting with a somewhat, I think, pretty easy ish topic. But I found an article about the expectations we place on friendships, and it really had me evaluating the relationships that I have in my own life. And it is from the New York Times, and it is called the Vexing Problem of the Medium Friend by Lisa Miller. And so just off the bat, let's start with, like, what is a medium friend? Like, what does that mean? Because I've personally never heard that term before I read this article. And so according to this article, the medium friend is someone who you're not that close with, but they're more than just, like, a casual acquaintance. Maybe you hang out with them a few times a year. Maybe you see them weekly at a shared activity like pickleball or pottery or, you know, Pilates, if that's your thing. And they are people that we enjoy seeing and can share fun experiences with, but they're not actually in your closest circle of friends. I think in a time where we are so caught up in the weeds of labeling and quantifying who our best friends are, like, oh, my God, who is coming on my Bachelorette? And who's going to be my, you know, in my bridesmaids and who's going to be invited to my birthday dinner and all these things.

Alex Cooper (9:38)

Like, I weirdly think there's actually something.

Alex Cooper (9:41)

Beautiful about the medium friend. And I'm going to get into truly what that is, because the point is, is this person doesn't have to be everything to you, but they can still serve a genuine purpose in your life. One of my medium friends is a girl who I met in college and she lives in LA now, but we don't really see each other very often. Let's call her Jessica. Okay. Jessica and I have both been saying, like, oh, my God, we need to do this. And then we'll be like, oh, my God, wait, can you actually do it next week? And then once it's next week, then it's like, wait, could you actually do it next week? And we have literally been trying to get together for four months now, trying to find a time that would work for both of us for dinner.

Alex Cooper (10:21)

And so by the time that the.

Alex Cooper (10:23)

Day actually rolled around, that worked for both of us.

Alex Cooper (10:25)

I am not gonna lie.

Alex Cooper (10:27)

I was a little apprehensive and in my head about just like, what would the vibe be? We hadn't seen each other in a minute. I also was so tired from. It was easier for me to just cancel. I was like, maybe it will just be simpler because, like, will we even have that much to talk about? And like, how will the conversation go? And all these things. I just had no idea what I was getting into. And then, you guys, it turned out to be one of my favorite nights that I've had in a really, really long time. And I think it's because one, there was nostalgia there. So I was able to talk about a time in my life that I don't get to talk about that often anymore. Like, I don't have that many people that live in Los Angeles that I went to college with that I'm like, actively just like going to dinners with. But then on top of that, she and I have actually, like, couldn't have more polar opposite of jobs and professions. So it was so fascinating to talk to her about what was going on at work for her and what was she was up to. And hearing her talk about something that I had no vested interest in. But I also was fascinated because it was like taking me out of my life for a minute. Also weirdly, like, hearing about, like, what is your family doing for the holidays and what are you guys going to be doing? It was nice because I also don't really know her family at all. So yes, she was even giving me some of the family drama, but it wasn't directly going affect my life and I almost weirdly like didn't need to give advice. I was just kind of like, oh my God, wait, well, I can tell you my family drama, so it was kind of really lovely. To get more into it, I want to read you a portion of the New York Times article on this topic. Medium Friends are genuine friends. You share history, such as the same alma mater, circumstances such as an employer or interest. Medium friends make you laugh, bring news, offer insights or expertise. But unlike the closest friends, Medium friends test the limits of your time, love and energy. There are only so many dinners in a week, so many people with whom you can be incessantly texting Medium Friends prove the lie in any naive attempt to be all things to all people, the tension embedded in Medium Friendship is this absence of clarity. The anxious silence around Medium Friendship are recognizable to anyone who has ever fibbed about the duration of a business trip to postpone a date in the calendar, and to anyone who has heard I'll call you too many times. The stakes increase in crisis or celebrations when the lack of clarity and any lopsidedness reveals itself in a personal emergency. The inner circle knows to rush in while the acquaintances feel safe to commiserate from the sidelines. But the Medium people orbit in a wobbly way, unsure of their obligations around how, when, or even whether to act. So this.

Alex Cooper (13:12)

In my opinion, is why I think so many people, and myself included, struggle when it comes to a Medium friend in our lives. Like we don't know how much to be there for them. Maybe we feel guilty when we're not there enough. We're not sure what the right and the wrong way to handle things may be when the boundaries are unclear or but at the same time, this is the very thing that allows for so much joy to come from these type of friendships, right? Like, the lack of expectations like I just referenced with my friend is the reason that you're able to be completely genuine in the way that you show up in this dynamic. And it's not fake and it's not maybe it is a little surface level, but like, maybe we need a little bit of that in our life. I think something that I think about a lot is like the expectations of Medium Friends is maybe where things get a little murky, right? Of like, okay, wait, so you're not my best friend and you're not in my inner circle, but we have been having A lot of good conversations. So like there can be like this levity and almost a sense of relief that comes with knowing a conversation with a medium friend is going to be light and easy. And that's what I'm saying about your best friends are your best friends. But sometimes I think it's nice to go and laugh and relax and like have a glass of wine or don't have a glass of wine, whatever you are into. But it's like just going and just like sharing light hearted stories and not having to go so, so deep sometimes I weirdly think can be healthy. Oddly something I also think is and. And I don't know the actual answer and I guess I'm posing it to all of us which is is it sometimes easier to be around a medium friend when we're going through a hard time? Of course you're calling your best friend when you go through the breakup or when your parents divor traumatic happens in your life. Like of course you're calling your closest friend. But then after so many nights of commiserating and sitting there and being upset and whatever, maybe sometimes it is nice to have a medium friend where you're like I need someone that doesn't know all of my. That we're close enough where like I can say I'm going through a tough time and I just want to have a fun time. And you guys can go to a dinner or you guys can go to a pottery class or you can go to a party or an event or you can go on a walk, you can go to a workout class and you kind of get to just like talk about your favorite restaurants that you tried that month or talk about some fun things that you saw online and it's like very casual. I don't know. I would love to know your guys thoughts because I think as we get older there's this emphasis right on you know, keep your friends close and ha. And you don't have, we don't have that much time to invest in a bunch of friendships. But I'm not saying that you're really investing that much time in medium friends. It's that once a month or maybe it is you're seeing them once a week because you're in a workout class with them or you're doing something actively but it's not requiring the lift that is required of true, true, true intense friendships where there is an actual understanding that like you need to show up. For me, similar to a romantic relationship almost some people would look at their best friends as right in A medium friendship. I think a lot of the times your energy can be replenished by your time spent together. You typically don't feel drained or overwhelmed by someone who like, again, not to be rude, but just like is kind of this like, like side character in your life. And that's okay because it's the same for them. And again, I'm not saying you don't.

Alex Cooper (16:40)

Care about this person.

Alex Cooper (16:41)

It's just a more casual, lovely, surfacey relationship that is doing exactly what you both want it to be doing. You both have a lot of other things going on in your lives and it doesn't really bother either of you. Right. The emotional labor associated with these type of friendships and is typically pretty low. I also read another article about this specific idea. It's called why I cherish my superficial friendships and you should too by Hazel Davis. Okay, I. And again, I'm actually interested to hear what you guys think about this because some of you may be like, absolutely not. I don't want any surface relationships in my life anymore. That's so fair. But I think a couple can kind of do you good. Okay, here's what she writes. Superficial friendships can provide all manner of benefits. You might do different things together and get new perspectives because you don't have a habit with this person. You get to be a free and easygoing person who can forget about your problems for the night. And that person doesn't have a preconceived idea of who you are and what you think. You have a light hearted, fun and easy companion without baggage. By definition, a low risk friendship means that very little is required of you. The high stakes ones can entail arguments, anger, tears and heartbreak. I'm not saying that there aren't friends for whom I would drop everything. And of course I have some pals who I'm closer to than others. But I certainly place as much value on both types of friends. I don't know if I agree with that statement. I definitely think I don't place the same value in my medium friends than my like lifers. But I do place the same value I would say in terms of like what your.

Alex Cooper (18:22)

Recognizing that each person is going to be bringing exactly their value and what you're expecting of them. And that is a beautiful thing. It's like tailoring your expectations per person and what where your relationship is. Right? She says unlike romantic relationships, we don't have conversations about friendship boundaries. So true. Instead you will have to use social cues and behaviors to understand them. Essentially anything that sits uncomfortably with you, you Know that you are not at the same level, friendship wise. So I think what the medium friend concept forces us to consider is that more often than not, friendships are supposed to be fun. And while deeper friendships are supposed to make us feel safe, seen and loved, they also open us up to the possibility of feeling disappointment or resentment when that dynamic isn't equal. Right? And since we don't talk about expectations, needs, or boundaries as much in friendships than we romantic relationships, I think that we typically only have these conversations with a friend after a conflict or a fight. So that means day to day, it is on us to look inward at our friendships and be like, is this dynamic mutually supportive when it comes to getting emotional needs met? Does it feel equal? I have definitely experienced the type of friendship before where I essentially became the therapist to one of my close friends. And of course, guys, like, of course, when a friend is going through something, you should be there for them and open to talking through a problem with them. And that's, I feel like that's all my childhood friends. And I do, I go, then they go, then I go, then they go. And then we do like, okay, wait, it's a unite, tell me everything and then I'm gonna be here and we're gonna solve it. Okay, next night is my night, I'm gonna tell you. And that's how it goes. But I do think sometimes it can come to a point where you cannot be the sole source of a friend's emotional well being. And that usually happens from these really, really close friendships. Right? Really close friendships. I don't think, I don't think there's anything more beautiful. But then there's also nothing more delicate than friendships, right? Like, romantic relationships are so complicated, but they're, I think they're way more straightforward than friendships because friendships, it's a lot, it's a lot of push and pull because you aren't living together, you're not sleeping together. Some people are, you know, elevating and growing in a different way that you're actually not privy to. Because within a romantic partner, you're with them all the time and you're like ebbing and flowing and you're with each other all the time. Friendship, it's like, oh, wait, whoa, what happened? Or again, sometimes your friend can change because of who they're dating. Like, there's so many variables in friendships that you can't control, which is why they're 10 times more beautiful sometimes than romantic, but also can be really, really hard in moments to navigate those close friends. And when you become the sole source of your friend's emotional well being. That is where things I think, get really tricky. I had this one friend when I was living in New York, where it started off, I would actually say as a medium friendship, which is kind of ironic because I didn't know it was called that. And it was like we were close. And then slowly I became her therapist, and I was so happy to do that. In the beginning, I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, I am so happy that I can be here for you. I was in a little bit more of a stable place in my life, and I think then all of a sudden, it crept from being a medium friendship to, oh, my God. Now I'm feeling like you're thinking we're super close because I'm here for you all the time, but you don't really know any of my stuff. And when I try to share my stuff, somehow it always turns back to, but your stuff is worse. And then I'm sitting here feeling kind of, like, drained and exhausted and resentful because you're getting so much more out of this relationship than me. And again, I'm so happy to be there for a friend. That is what friendship is. But when it is so imbalanced, you start to be like, wait, I'm. But I'm actually not a therapist. Wait, wait, wait, Jenny, I'm not a therapist, okay? And you're not paying me for this. I'm supposed to be your friend. And now let's, like, have a margarita and ask me how my day was. And for the past 16 dinners, we've only talked about you. Like, what am I getting out of this? This feels really weird, and this is starting to feel icky. And I think when this dynamic of intense emotional labor becomes the core of the relationship, that is when a close friendship can become problematic in a way that a medium friendship is typically safe from.

Alex Cooper (23:13)

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Alex Cooper (23:30)

We need that, okay?

Alex Cooper (23:31)

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Alex Cooper (23:39)

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Alex Cooper (23:39)

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Alex Cooper (23:53)

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Alex Cooper (23:56)

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Alex Cooper (24:02)

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Alex Cooper (24:03)

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Alex Cooper (24:04)

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Alex Cooper (24:08)

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Alex Cooper (24:12)

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Alex Cooper (24:23)

In order to be in a healthy friendship, you both need to internally evaluate how much you're expecting the other other person to take on emotionally. A close friendship needs to be mutually supportive in order to maintain a horizontal rather than vertical relationship. Which I will get into in a second because I've been reading a book and it's been so fascinating about vertical versus horizontal relationships. But first I just want to pose some questions to ask yourself that I also asked myself earlier this month. If you are sitting there kind of reflecting on the dynamic you have with a close friend and realizing it may be emotionally imbalanced, okay, after you hang out with this friend, how do you feel?

Alex Cooper (25:06)

Right?

Alex Cooper (25:07)

Are you anxious, tired, maybe frustrated? Are you regularly making sacrifices in your own life to make sure you're able to best show up for them? Do you find that you don't get a chance to ask them for advice because their issues completely steamroll the conversation? And most importantly, do you feel like you can be your authentic self and say how you truly feel, or are you constantly walking on eggshells? The goal, I think, in all relationships is for the dynamic to be horizontal rather than vertical. And so two weeks ago, you guys, I had no idea what the that meant. I mean, I can, I can gather what it would mean, but like what is happening? And so, guys, that's why I said we are going to be learning here on Call Her Daddy today. So I have been reading a book called the Courage to Be Disliked, which opened me up to the idea of what horizontal and vertical relationships are. And I think it's really interesting and it's an interesting way to view a friendship dynamic. So a horizontal relationship is basically a completely egalitarian relationship, which, which basically means both sides view each other to be of equal status, right? And each one is able to show up authentically without worrying about being inferior or superior to the other. In a good friendship or a good romantic relationship also, or in really any good relationship, a horizontal dynamic Means that, like, each person makes their own choices and there's mutual respect and consideration and there is always reciprocity when it comes to support and encouragement. In a vertical relationship, one person is more needed than the other, okay? And so one person typically holds the power or the influence and then controls the outcome of the dynamic as a result, right? So like in your life, the earliest, most strange, straightforward example would be like a boss in an employee relationship, but something that's more leaning towards unhealthy in a vertical relationship would be a friendship. Like, why would one friend have more power over the other? That doesn't make sense, right? And so in vertical friendships, which I urge you because, guys, I've been doing this in my life and I'm like, oh my God, is this a vertical or a horizontal relationship? And Matt is like, like, okay, enough. Like, let's talk about that TV show you were watching. I'm like, you never want to know about my reality shows. And he's like, you can't sit here and go through every single relationship in your life right now, Alex. But I'm like becoming obsessed because I want to evaluate truly, like, to the core, what. I'm fascinated. I'm like, what? Where do each of my relationships stand? It's kind of fucking fascinating, right? And so in vertical friendships, one person tends to be benefiting more than the other. So you would think the person that's giving the advice is like, oh, you're wiser and you're this. So you're on top. No, it's the weaponized incompetence. And I'm not saying people are doing this on purpose, but it's like, does your friend always vent to you non stop but never ask you what's going on? Are their problems always projected to be bigger or worse or more important than yours? AKA you're in a vertical relationship with your friend because they deem themselves and their life and their priorities and their issues above yours. And then do they guilt trip you when you aren't perfectly there for them? Like, are there expectations on you constantly increasing? Because when you are in a vertical relationship with a friend, you then feel like, oh, it's, it almost becomes like codependent, right? Because you're like, wait, but they're going through this and how now am I going to break the cycle where I'm like, hey, Barbara, like, I gotta get some words out, girl. Like, I know now about your fucked up brother in rehab and I feel horrible for you, but I know so much about that and I know your Sister who married the asshole that now it's turned, like, verbally abusive, which is horrible. And I know your mother has been hitting the bottle. Horrible. And I know you love your dad, you lucky bitch. And there's so much going on here. But, like, do you even know know if I have a sibling? And they're like, but we're gonna get to that. Listen to me. So the other night you're like, oh, my God, Barbara, Barbara, Barbara. Shut the up. You're like, barbara, I would love to know.

Alex Cooper (29:47)

Barbara.

Alex Cooper (29:48)

Do you know my last name? Barbara? She's like, yes, only because you're on as my emergency contact. Like, it somehow always flows back to them. You're like, I'm your emergency contact, Barbara. Like, barbara, shut the up. It can literally start to drive you insane where like, like you feel like, oh, my God, I'm beholden to this person. And then they also make you feel like a bad person if you try to impose, like, any semblance of equality in the relationship. And you're like, how did I get to this point? How did I get to this point where I'm literally just this person's therapist and anytime that I try to actually talk about my life, they make me feel like I'm a bad person for trying to talk about my stuff because their stuff is so much more important to me. Guys, that is not what a friendship should be. There are moments when your friend needs. Needs to be all consuming and have you listen, because that's life. One friend is going to be way more in it than the other and it ebbs and flows. Yes, but if this is a constant, you need to get the out. You are craving horizontal friendships. Equal friendships. Right, Horizontal friendships. You're able to actually show up authentically for one another because you're not dancing around these power imbalances. There's no forcing each other to fit into certain beneficial boxes in each other's lives because the expectations are aligned. And a lot of times, and this is something that I wish I could do an episode on, but this is not something really that can be taught, which is most of the problems in the world just come down to self awareness. And you can't really teach self awareness. So a lot of times if you're finding yourself in these dynamics, you can try and you can try and you can try and you can push as much as you want to push to try to get out of it not being an equal dynamic and try to get it to like a fair standing with a friend. But after a few attempts, I Hate to admit it, but that probably means that relationship is so molded and grounded in what it is and its patterns, and also that person is getting exactly what they want out of that relationship that they actually wouldn't be interested in an equal friendship with you. Right. Like, it takes knowing both how you want someone to show up for you and what your limits are for someone else. Else. I just. And someone else. Sorry, I just had a list. Someone else. And both of those things take the inner work and the reflection to figure that out. Setting the boundaries are so necessary in order to maintain a horizontal friendship. And it might occasionally end with, like, being disliked by someone and you may even lose a friend. But you need to reframe that and realize that this means that your parameters are protecting you from something really unhealthy. Like if you lose a friend because they can't handle the friendship being an equal, balanced dynamic, then yeah, then it probably means that it's not serving for you to have that person in your life. Because guess what? It means probably that you're just serving that friend. And they're never serving you, they're never helping you out, they're never giving you the amount of effort that you're giving them. And you being scared to speak up or end the friendship only furthers the point. You're in a people pleasing situation where this person sits on top and holds the power. And I know it can be easy to take the loss of a friendship like, beyond. Personally, I get it, Trust me. Someone wanting more from you than you can give them. It can feel like you're failing and you're like, but what's wrong? And why won't this work? I'm telling you, it's not your fault in most situations. So many of these interpersonal dynamics are going to make you feel guilty and scared to do this or that. And a lot of it is because we allow other people's projections of us to affect the way that we view ourselves and therefore interact with people. All of a sudden you're like, oh my God, why am I worrying so much about how much this person is going to perceive me and view me? And they're going to think I'm a bad person for finally not answering the 16th call. And they know I'm with my mom in the hospital, but because they're breaking up with their 16th boyfriend and they're thinking that I need to be there for them and I'm like, you never are here for me. I can't keep doing this. I get it. But if you keep Leaning into these dynamics that are vertical, that are not equal for you, ultimately it's going to cost your ability to be genuine. And that is a whole other topic that the book I'm currently reading also hits on. So after I finish it, I can do a whole Sunday session about how basically we can all be better about not taking other people's personally. That is like. I feel like that's literally like the biggest problem in life is we're all like taking everyone's projection on us and then you're over analyzing and you're like, oh my God, I'm a bad friend, I'm a bad daughter, I'm all that. Half of the time you literally were just like sitting there eating your breakfast and this person is spewing this and then you're internalizing all of it. And it's like a lot of times it has nothing to do with us. Most of the time. Well, no, maybe. Again, I don't know who I'm speaking to. I don't know who my audience in some corners of the tik tok world or whatever. But like I know that most people, we're trying to be good friends, we're trying to be good partners. So we will save that deep dive of how to stop people pleasing and just essentially absorbing the world's wants and needs of us and actually living for ourselves in some capacity for another time. But I hope you enjoyed this first little Sunday session of book club. And I'm excited to do more episodes like this. If you guys have obviously any other topics or articles that you're passionate about. You want me to do deep dive on let me obviously know. But overall I think to sum up the medium friend thing, it's like I get that a big conversation that may come from this is like, no, Alex, like why? I. I just want my close friends. I'm not saying close friends are not as important. If anything they. Yes, of course close friends are more important. I'm just saying that in the chaos of life and how crazy life is with parent dynamics and romantic relationships and close friendships, like we can only be so much to everyone and then also show up for ourselves. And so yes, there are moments where having these medium friendships are fcking lovely. And it's kind of a relief life to go out. And I think a lot of times with medium friendships we can convince ourselves. And this is literally what I did with that one friend. You convince yourselves. But it's not my best friend.

Alex Cooper (36:08)

So it's like, what's it.

Alex Cooper (36:10)

It's not worth it to like spend my time on a relationship like this because whatever, it's more surface level. And then all of a sudden it's like the biggest fear with your medium friends is the drive there is the committing to the date. Then once you get there, you're like, oh my gosh, like half of the time. It also could be like they were just like talking about some going on in their life and it made you 10 times feel better about yours. Because also they're not asking you for your advice because they're sharing how they're handling it. Because you are not a close enough friend that they're expecting anything of you. They're just sharing it. Actually, it's just like kind of fun fodder at a dinner table of like, yo, guess what my mother in law did? And you're like, no way. Guess what mine did. And you're like, bro, cheers. Let's have another martini. It's relaxing, it's light. And sometimes it's in the chaos of the world of how crazy everything is right now, it can get to the point where you need that. We've never been more politically, financially, religiously, ethically, gender, all of it divided in this world. And you can have those type of conversations sometimes with really close friends. And you can talk politics and all that again, it still is painful. But with a medium friend, you're like, babe. Even if a medium friend brings it up, you're like, anyways, swerving. Can't talk politics. I'm so burnt out. And they'd be like, totally. Because a medium friend is not going to push you on that. Because it's. That is what it is. It's your pickleball friend, it's your Pilates friend. Your core reason for having each other is light, it's fun. And so I urge all of us not once a week again. Unless it's literally you guys doing an activity that requires once a week. But find time for your medium friends because really what it is, is, is it's more to fill your cup than it is anything else. And you both are having a fun little selfish moment of like, I'm here to put on a cute. Also, can we also admit, I feel like with medium friends, you will go a little bit cuter on your outfits, you'll put on some makeup because you're like, oh, this is more of like my surface level person. Like, I want to like impress and have fun. You kidding me? Like, with a lot of my girlfriends are like, literally, I need to like put on my sweatpants. And again, that means I'm so comfortable with those girls and that is beyond good and fun too do but having both, it's kind of amazing. So I hope that that allowed you guys the goal of these type of.

Alex Cooper (38:29)

Episodes. Really it's just for me to hopefully get you guys to think about some fun things and instead of scrolling on TikTok or Instagram for an hour on your Sunday, hopefully you were just hanging out and listening to this. And now maybe this will hopefully allow you to reestablish in your life life some of your vertical friendships that you're realizing have been draining you and maybe you need to cut some off. Maybe you need to try to re establish them and then maybe enjoy some of those people that maybe you haven't made as much of an effort in because you think you would rather just sit home and watch TV and you need to decompress. But really what it is is you need to go have a good fun girls night and you need to have someone talk to you about what's going.

Alex Cooper (39:07)

On in their life so you can.

Alex Cooper (39:09)

Stop sitting in all of the that is your own life. It's kind of nice to hear what other people are doing and also just be like, whoa, how crazy. Oh my God, I'm so sorry you're dealing with that. And that's the. That's all you have to give. Nothing more. No advice. You just keep drinking, eating and keep the conversation flowing.

Alex Cooper (39:27)

It's kind of fun. Try it.

Alex Cooper (39:38)

Foreign.

Alex Cooper (39:46)

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Alex Cooper (40:12)

To have cute outfits for, but also comfortable outfits for.

Alex Cooper (40:16)

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Alex Cooper (40:24)

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Alex Cooper (41:08)

A gift that doesn't just sparkle, but speaks. Okay, these are the important things.

Alex Cooper (41:13)

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Alex Cooper (41:35)

Okay, now that we have all reevaluated every single relationship in our life and we are really, really clued into what the horizontal, vertical, medium friendships are in our life, let's go to France.

Alex Cooper (41:51)

I'm going to be answering some questions.

Alex Cooper (41:54)

Of the mother fucking week. Here we go. Okay. Okay. Hi, Daddy.

Alex Cooper (42:00)

My fiance and I have been together.

Alex Cooper (42:02)

Six years and are getting married next year. He recently landed this amazing new job, but now two months in, he says he can't do it because he's too stressed and he doesn't and he feels underqualified. He's always struggled with stress since he's never really had to deal with much growing up. Now he wants to quit and take an easier job. He asked for my input, but I didn't really want to hear it. I'm very career driven. And honestly, this is making me question marrying him. Him. I know that sounds harsh, but I can't help wondering if this is how he'll handle challenges down the line. Like when we have kids. How do I talk to him about this? Okay, I think just, you know, very valid for you to be a little, like, shaken on the concept of like, wait, wait, like, we were so excited for this job. You got the job and now you're already wanting to quit the job. Like, wait, what the is going on? What I will say is like having a little bit of empathy because not every single person is going to have the same career driven mentality as you. So I do think, like, if you're projecting that you want him to be something he's not, that's also just something for you to acknowledge within yourself of, like, has he always been this way? Has he Never really cared as much about his career. And now for some reason, you're getting closer to the concept of marriage, so it's becoming more apparent to you, like, maybe you aren't aligned. I think you can't really get mad at him if he's kind of always been this way. I also think another thing that I wrote down that I was thinking about when you wrote this in is, like, you've been with this man for six years, you said. And so you have a sense of, like, does he often take the easy way out? Right. Like, I get it. This is, like, one moment with his job. But, like, is he constantly kind of, like, cutting corners to try to make something as easy as possible? And if so, that's more on his character that you have been observing for the past six years. And I don't think that's gonna change. Right. But I also think to be more. A little bit, like, kind to him. Being in the wrong job is so draining and can be so overwhelming for someone and can directly affect your mental health. Like, you can become so unrecognizable to yourself if your job is so depleting and so anxiety inducing and you feel you're not qualified enough or whatever it is that he's saying. Like, I do think if he is not someone that has shown these characteristics and this is a new thing that you're lacking empathy in, I think you need to look inward and you need to say, why am I not willing to show up for my partner in this moment? Is it because I know this is equality about him and I'm freaking out because I don't want to marry him? Or is it because there's something within you that is, like, wanting him to be a specific way? Or are you just like, oh, wait, I need to recalibrate? Yes, this is fair for him to not want to have this job.

Alex Cooper (44:49)

But I get it. It's. It's. Listen, everything gets more heightened when you're thinking about marrying someone. Because dating the hockey player when I was in college, I was like, oh, my God, my baby got an F.

Alex Cooper (45:03)

He's so cute. Like, I didn't give a. I would help him, like, write his papers. I'm like, he's so stupid. But, like, okay, like, wait, where's the party tonight? I didn't give a. That this man could barely read. But you know what? Like, he was the hockey player and he was hot and he was fun, and that was enough for me at the time. Then when you start thinking about Marri marriage, I'm like, love you, babe, but like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I need, I need, I need, I need at least, at least you to get a D. Okay, we'll start with the D. So I think it's all gauging of like where you're at is also going to amplify a lot of the. Things start to look a lot crazier when you're like, hold on, are you gonna raise my child with that mouth and those hands and that brain? Like, I don't know, I don't know. So, so fair that you're overthinking it. But just recognize within yourself if you're being a little too hard on him. Oh, K. This one is Juice. Juice, Juice. Listen, I don't love when people get cheated on, but like, you know, we love a good caller. Daddy cheating story. Okay, I need some advice. I went through my boyfriend's phone and discovered he was cheating on me, which I expected since I felt the need to snoop at all. Love the self awareness. I've already broken up with him, so don't worry about that. Love this for you, girl. Okay? However, while looking at his phone, I also found out that his friend is cheating on his girlfriend. I'm not super close with her, so I don't think it's my place to tell her, but I do think that she should know. What should I do in this situation? Okay, normally I would be like, it's not your place. Like, don't get involved in other people's because half the time a lot of people do know that they're getting cheated on and they don't want to know or if they don't, they're going to find out and like, don't get involved. This though I don't think you owe absolutely anything to your ex boyfriend, that little piece of sht. And you definitely don't owe anything to his shitty friends because most likely they both know they're both cheating. And so they're almost like enjoying that they've had this little like thing together. And so I do think this is like one of the very few times that I would say you could maybe help this girl and you could slide in with a little hey, girly. And I think you could kind of go about it by being like, Like, I'm not sure you're aware, but my boyfriend and I broke up because I found out that he was cheating and I saw some stuff on his phone that I just wanted to flag to you because I saw some texts from your boyfriend that seem concerning and I just want you to know, like, I. I am here to give you more information. I also 100 respect if you don't want to know. And I will, like, never bring this up and I won't talk to anyone about it. But like, here for you if you want to know, know that is being a girl's girl of, like, being not vindictive enough to be like, I have this horrible thing that, like, now since I'm fcked over, I'm gonna fck you over too. You're like, no, I want the girl to know that I've got the info. But I also am like, I'll respect it if you're gonna stay with this guy. This ain't my fckin relationship. So, like, let me know what you want to do. Queen up to you because you made your decision and now let her make hers. Oh, my God. Wait, honestly though, like, why do I kind of love it that, like, you guys can like, literally come together and probably become friends from this, right? Like you said, you don't really know her. That's like, weirdly a beautiful, beautiful beginning to a friendship. If you're like, wait, my friend. My boyfriend was friends with your friend and we were both getting cheated on. Babe, let's go out for a drink. Like, we gotta talk. How cathartic to be able to go to a bar with this woman and sit and have a drink and be like, tell me everything. Because you will feel so less alone and because they're like, intertangled. Oh, that's a good one. Okay. I have been dating my boyfriend for about a year. Everything's been great, and I trust him completely. But the other week, he got super drunk at a golf outing. And when I checked to see if he got home okay, his location was at a strip club. The next morning, I asked why he didn't tell me, since he always tells me what he's doing, and he said he just didn't think to. He's going to Vegas in a couple weeks for fun. And I don't want to sound crazy, but I feel like I need to address it. I just think it's disrespectful to spend money on a lap dance or even go at all. Am I being irrational? All. Okay, here's the thing with strip clubs. I think that strip clubs and conversations around places like Vegas and bachelor parties and all that, they definitely need to be discussed in relationships if they're not already. Just like a casual conversation of being like, I would never do that, or, I would never do that and Then you're both like, oh, cool. Like, we're on the same page if it's never been discussed. You do need to kind of set boundaries with these things because it goes as far as some people would consider a lot of this cheating. And so I think that you need to. You do this because you are clearly in a serious relationship. And to validate you, it is disrespectful for him to be getting drunk and just going completely AWOL on you. Like, that. Is not it, like, healthy for a relationship? I would not personally want to be in a relationship where my partner is getting drunk, always out with his boys, and I'm like, laying there being like, I wonder where he. Let's check the. Oh, my God, he's hot. Marty. That is. That's not even a script club. It'd probably be like Cassandra's. Like, that's not. That's not fun. Like, wait, he's at Blue Diamond. Like, I'm. What the. And he didn't even tell me. Like, what? Like, that's crazy because it also insinuates, like, if you can't be honest of, like, babe, I'm going to the strip club with the guys. Do you care? It's. He knows the answer. If he's not. If he's hiding it from you and he shares everything with you, he knows the answer that you would be upset. So then also why is he doing that, that he knows he's going to be upsetting his partner? So, like, do you want to be in a relationship with someone that's acting that casually about something, that he knows you would not be happy about it, you know, you'll be upset about it, and yet he's still engaging in it. That's really shitty. So let's pretend this was just a one off, okay?

Alex Cooper (50:50)

He was an idiot.

Alex Cooper (50:51)

He had too many Jaeger bombs. He ended up at the strip club. Oh, my God. How did he get there? Idiot. But now he's going to vape Vegas, okay? So he has a time to right his wrongs. And he has a time. First of all, like, if he made you this upset, like, him going to Vegas just for a boys weekend, it seems like it's not no one's birthday. It's no one bachelor. Like, he's just going to Vegas. Yeah. Probably Stay home, Jerry. Okay, Jerry, you've done enough damage, okay? Your dick's been grinded on enough. Jerry, you got your weenie up and down and up and down and flip flopped over and you're fine. Jerry, you don't need to go to Vegas to do it again and again and go on the merry go round. But Jerry wants to do, clearly. So you gotta have a conversation with Jerry and let him know, baby, I'm not in on this. And let me just tell you, sweetie, Vegas, oh, it's one big strip club. So what I would say is you need to evaluate, number one, what are your boundaries?

Alex Cooper (51:39)

What are your boundaries? Franny.

Alex Cooper (51:43)

And Franny, if your boundaries are. Oh, he could get a lap dance. He just has to tell me about it. Boom. Tell him if your boundaries are. You even look. Look at a girl's double decker and her cheeks. We're done. Boom. You know your boundaries, Franny. But you got to know what boundaries you're setting before you get mad at him. And then he's gonna be like, okay, so what am I allowed to do, Dumbass man. What am I allowed to do? Well, Franny, pull out the list. Okay. Do a long scroll. Be like, let me start number one. He's like, how many of there? They're like 50. There's a list of 50. Sit down, Robbie. What was his name again? I forget. Jerry. Okay, so first you need to make your boundaries, obviously. And then I would say you need to clearly communicate them before he goes on this trip. Okay? And if any point in time you have a sick to your stomach feeling, if you feel like you're overly checking your phone, then I am going to help you out on this, sweetie, and tell you this is not the relationship for you. If you have a partner that when they go to the bar or when they go out or when they're with their boys or when they're wherever, and you're, like, trying to focus and like, it's like Lucas Scott and Peyton and you're watching one tree Hill and you're on episode one because you're trying to feel something and distract yourself and feel a rush, and you're like, oh, my God, it's my favorite show. And then you're, like, constantly checking the phone. And then you're, like, looking at the location, and then you're, like, zooming in on his friends stories. And all of a sudden you're like, I'm becoming that crazy.

Alex Cooper (53:17)

It's time to go.

Alex Cooper (53:18)

It's time to pack it up. And trust me, I've been there. Where you're like, I'm turning into a monster. Because guess what? He doesn't do this when you're out. He doesn't do this when you're out with your friends. He doesn't because he's like, I don't. Like, I. I know she won't do anything because she's like, I just. Or like, he doesn't care. You deserve better. If you ever have a pit in your stomach and it's not just from a moment where then you get clarity and it never happens again, the pit in the stomach that is your body literally rejecting the situation and being like, we have to get out of here. Franny, Franny, Franny, pack it up. So, yes, but listen, to be more positive and not a pessimist, I would just say, you got this. You can just say, hey, I know. That was a weird one. I really want to set some boundaries because I didn't feel great about it, and I want you to have fun, but I also. I think that there is, like, a level of respect that I want you to have for me and me to have for you in this relationship. And so let's get clear on what our boundaries are. Are. And the dream would be if he was like, babe, I don't even need to go to Vegas. Or if he's like, babe, I'm gonna go to Vegas. And this is also a dream where he's like. And I promise you, any situation that I would 100 obviously know that you would be like, oh, come on, Jerry. I will not put myself in that situation because I love you and you're my priority. Boom, boom, boom. Then you're good. Franny, you don't have to pack it up. Up. Franny and Jerry are going down the aisle, okay? And then you can have a joint Bachelorette and Bachelor in Vegas together. Oh, my God. That's literally my nightmare. Okay.

Alex Cooper (55:08)

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Alex Cooper (55:11)

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Alex Cooper (55:14)

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Alex Cooper (55:22)

For sure. I'm down to go with you, but I'm gonna look cute while I do it. Okay?

Alex Cooper (55:26)

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Alex Cooper (55:31)

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Alex Cooper (56:03)

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Alex Cooper (56:05)

Up with your whole life, Roka is your brand. Check out roka.com and use code Daddy20 for 20 off your order. That's R-O-K-A.com with code Daddy20 for 20 off. Call her Daddy is brought to you by White Claw. It is officially the holiday season, which means back to back parties, hitting up the hometown bar and squeezing in every second with your favorite people. And that, my dears, calls for bringing a White Claw variety pack to every party this holiday season. Yes, you already know the drill, Daddy gang. My personal favorite, Black cherry.

Alex Cooper (56:44)

Duh. But maybe your cousin is obsessed with.

Alex Cooper (56:46)

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Alex Cooper (56:52)

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Alex Cooper (57:09)

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Alex Cooper (57:10)

Claw with your favorite flavor this holiday season. Please drink responsibly. Hard seltzer with flavors. White Claw Seltzer Works Chicago, Illinois. Hey, Alex. I am struggling with major mom guilt. About a year ago, my husband and I moved to my hometown and then found out I was pregnant. We just had our baby girl and it's been a hard year. We don't have many friends here. My husband works from home and it's caused tension in our marriage. We realized we'd be happier moving back to his hometown where our friends and support system are. But my mom is taking it so hard, guilt tripping me and acting like I'm taking her grandbaby away. We'd only be a couple hours away, but it's making me feel like I'm a terrible daughter for even wanting to go. How do I handle her emotions without losing my sanity? Okay, we're gonna get to your mom because one, it's not right for your mom to be guilt tripping you. Like, if it truly is that this is the right thing for you and your family to be doing and moving back to your husband's hometown, then your mom should be supportive of that. And of course, it will be lovely if you guys can find a good cadence to when she can come up and when you guys can, you know, see her. And maybe if you have a, an extra bedroom, like a two bedroom apartment that like, maybe she could sleep in or whatever it be, or you have a house that whatever, if you have some accommodation that she could come stay once in a while. Lovely. But overall, your mom should not make be making you feel guilty. Your mom should be like, honey, honey, you're miserable. I'm gonna figure this out. You're gonna figure this out. Like, we've got to get you happy again. My bigger problem though in reading this is let's, yeah, let's be done with your mom because it feels like there's a larger thing going on here for you. When you said that my husband works from home and it's caused tension in our marriage, my fear is that there is something going on with you guys and you are thinking that changing your environment and your location is going to immediately solve this. And listen, it may be that simple where it's like, no, we're literally just like on top of each other. And we were back in his hometown, he had an office to go to and so we like had separation and it was much better. But again, like, it's, it's.

Alex Cooper (59:14)

I get it.

Alex Cooper (59:14)

Like, actually, I don't get it. I don't have a kid yet. So I, I've heard from my friends. I can imagine the first year is a lot. I totally understand that.

Alex Cooper (59:23)

And I empathize with that. I totally empathize with that. But, but I guess I would just say to you, try to make sure and this goes to everyone in life. And this is like, again, I'm. I need to do this also more in my life. Like, I can't just like preach this and not practice it. It's like when there is something larger going on, a lot of times we will nitpick these little things of like, well, if I just quickly change this, everything will be good. And this will. If I just. But is there something bigger going on? Right. Are you resentful? Because again, I'm literally making this up. And I'm not saying this is your situation, but just to get thought starters going. Like, are you resentful because your husband is sitting there and he's working and when the baby is crying, you're the only one that picks up the baby or you are not getting enough sleep and then he's at home and he's not helping, or is he helping and you're going through something Right. Like, how is your mental health? And although he's being so supportive, he's smothering, and you're trying to just get your identity back after having a child. Like, there are so many dynamics that I can assume come into play when you have a child that all I hear from women is just like, there's a complete shift in your identity. And in that first year to two years to three years, even, you have to recalibrate. Because now all of a sudden, you're not just Paloma on the block, and you're hanging with your girls like you're Paloma, the girl on the block, but you also have a child. And so now your husband is trying to also either help and be there for you, or maybe he's not. So all of these factors, I fear, you should try to solve and get to the root of it before you head off to his hometown thinking that it's going to solve something. Because my other worry is.

Alex Cooper (61:08)

Maybe it's really nice having your mom around, right? And so you're. You. You could be. Again, guys, I'm not even in this. I'm just, like, hypothesizing from the little amount that you wrote in. But, like, maybe your mom is helping you a lot. And now the only way that you can find a semblance of. Of a way to just, like, keep moving and is to kind of be like, put it on your mom. Like, oh, she's being so this or that. But really, it's like, wait, you said that it's been really hard at home, and he's been working from home, and things have been tough. And, you know, you guys have caused a lot of tension in your marriage. I think let's start with that, and then I think let's talk about the move. Always handle the bigger issue. And I think a lot of times that's easier said than done, right? Again, like, I'm not perfect. And I think sometimes you have to slow yourself down and ask yourself, what would the move be solving? And is it a band aid or is it actually, logistically, this would solve this for you and only Paloma, my dear will know. Love you, girl. I'm sorry. That's. Oh, my God, dude. I can't even imagine having kids. Like, I can because I want them, but I'm like, that's gonna be a whole nother chapter of your life. And, like, not making it your whole personality, but it also transforming your identity, and you're just like.

Alex Cooper (62:22)

Help. Help.

Alex Cooper (62:24)

Okay, Daddy gang, that is it for this week's Sunday session.

Alex Cooper (62:30)

I hope that it was helpful and I love you all very much. Goodbye.

Alex Cooper (62:58)

Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Tinder. Okay, let's chat about our flirty friends over at Tinder. Tinder just launched a new photo prompt feature that is changing the crush game.

Alex Cooper (63:09)

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Alex Cooper (63:11)

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Alex Cooper (63:19)

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Alex Cooper (63:27)

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Alex Cooper (64:01)

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Alex Cooper (64:32)

Why, but I agreed to do a lot of cooking.

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