In Part 2 of my conversation with Rachel Samson and Dr. Jessie Stern, we explore how these patterns play out in relationships and what to do about them.

Inside this episode:

Why schemas and coping modes develop in childhood
The classic anxious–avoidant pursue/withdraw loop and why it feels so stuck
How to recognize flooding and use structured breaks that protect both partners
The difference between boundaries and ultimatums (and why social media gets this wrong)
Common attachment myths that keep us feeling broken or stuck
Why deep listening may be the single most powerful skill for every human relationship

Whether you’re in a romantic partnership, parenting, or navigating workplace dynamics, these tools will help you shift from me vs. you into us vs. the problem.

What you’ll learn

How avoidant partners shut down to self-protect (and how to reconnect)
Why anxious partners amplify pursuit (and how to soothe instead)
How to make breaks work instead of backfiring
Why healthy relationships do have conflict — but repair faster

Resources & tools

Free 7 Steps to Effective Breaks guide: https://www.drkatiestirling.com/download-deescalate-tool

Free The 4 Horsemen & Their Antidotes ebook: https://stan.store/drkatiestirling/p/stop-reactive-communication--free-guide
Program: Relationship Reset Bootcamp https://www.drkatiestirling.com/course/relationship-reset

🔗 Connect with Rachel & Dr. Jessie

Rachel Samson: @australianpsychologist

Dr. Jessie Stern: @drjessiestern

📖 Get their book Beyond Difficult: https://www.readings.com.au/product/9781923046597/beyond-difficult--jessie-stern-rachel-samson--2025--9781923046597

👩‍⚕️ Connect with Dr. Katie

Instagram: @drkatiestirling

YouTube: Call Me Katie Podcast
Join Katie’s Online Relationship Reset: https://www.drkatiestirling.com/course/relationship-reset

Website: www.drkatiestirling.com

👉 This is Part 2 of our conversation. Don’t miss Part 1, where we explore how attachment, temperament and neurobiology shape the way we interact in relationships: https://youtu.be/HyqWEyCDorA

Beyond Difficult (Part 2): When Pursue Meets Withdraw — Attachment, Boundaries & Repair