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- [00:01]
Kirk Martin
Hey moms and dads.
- [00:02]
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- [01:21]
Ken Trupke
Welcome to the Clarity Advisor show where you'll learn how to grow your team. Today. Join Ken Trupke and his guests as they discuss what works and doesn't work to grow your team in today's world. And now your host, Ken Trupke.
- [01:41]
Kirk Martin
Hello and welcome to the Clarity Advisor Show. Do you have a teammate who's struggling to perform at the level they need to and and yet everything you've tried has just led to frustration for both you and them and now you're out of ideas as to how you can help? Or at home, do you have a strong willed child who doesn't respond to consequences and probably pushes your buttons, but again, you're out of ideas as to how to help? Well, today we're going to look at the overlap between good parenting principles and good leadership principles. My guest is Kirk Martin and Kirk is the founder of Celebrate Calm and the host of the Calm Parenting Podcast. Since leaving his corporate job, Kirk has spent decades working with tens of thousands of families to help them create successes in the home. And we're going to discuss today how those same principles and techniques can be applied in the workplace. So it is my great personal pleasure to welcome to the show Kirk Martin. Kirk, glad to have you here.
- [02:43]
Hey, thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be here.
- [02:46]
Yeah, well, I'm excited to have you. So so let's jump right in. Tell us about where you were and what led you to start celebrate calm.
- [02:56]
So so my dad was career military, he had four boys and my dad knew fear and intimidation. My wear the highway approach because that's what he grew up with, right? That's pretty common in that generation. And so my wife and I get married, start having kids and guess what I did, why we're the highway fear and intimidation. And we happen to have a very strong willed child and strong willed kids are like, bring it dad, bring it. Like even when they're three, they're like I'm not afraid. And they're like fight or flight? Usually fight. And so we, I did that till he was about nine and I recognized like I loved my son, but I just spent all my time trying to change him, right? I just thought, I thought he was the issue because he's so difficult, he's emotional, he's pigheaded, he won't listen to me until I realized he was just like me and I was the issue. And so things started to change when I finally understood the only person in life that I can control is myself. And corollary to that for kids especially, I think it applies to most humans, is the quickest way to change your child's behavior is to first control your own. Because we just, you know, we trigger each other all the time. And you know, even in a work world if you, if you walk in and stand over someone in their cubicle, you're not going to get like, hey boss, so glad you popped in, what do you need? Right? It creates a defensive response. So I'll do it the short way. So I began to change and when I started getting control of my own emotions, my own control issues because that's a big deal for many of us, my own anxiety. I noticed my relationship change with my son and, and it just led to a different feeling in our home. It just worked better. So we ended up inviting kids into our home. So I had this great idea which my wife didn't like, which is why don't we bring all these strong willed kids, kids on the spectrum into our home because therapy doesn't always work for them. And we'll have like 10 or 12 strong will kids in our home where we can control the environment. So I would change plans on them at the last minute. I wouldn't give them what they wanted, that resulted in meltdowns and they would fight each other. It was awesome. And so it gave me a chance in the moment to really work with them and teach them. Hey, yeah, of course, of course you're frustrated right now. A lot of their kid took your Lego. I know you want to pound them, but what's going to happen if you do that? What else could we do differently? It gave us an opportunity to actually teach kids in the moment how to control their emotions, how to control their impulses. We did that for a decade because it was really exhausting and we had about 1500 kids in our home. So that's kind of where all of this started. And now we do more speaking now podcasting. But that was the genesis of it was basically honestly breaking generational patterns that I inherited from my, my dad because I inherited good things from him and some of those bad relational things because my dad was a career, was a World War II depression era. They, they weren't that emotionally evolved back then, the dads back then. So much so it gives us an advantage in the era we're, we are in where we communicate a little bit better with our kids and other people. But anyway, that's, that's kind of where we started.
- [06:12]
Okay. And then that evolved into the business of Celebrate Calm. So tell me, tell me about that, how that became the business that you're in.
- [06:20]
So Mrs. Calm told me yesterday, I wish I.
- [06:23]
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- [08:51]
Kirk Martin
So I didn't like the corporate world. I hate. I worked in the corporate world for a lot of big companies for a long time. I was a horrible employee because I just wanted to do my own thing. I didn't want to do what my boss wanted me to do because that was dumb. And, and I made it up to some, you know, a decent VP level. But I was never, like, really that great at it. And so I was always looking for an opportunity, like, I could do this on my own. Everything I tried failed until this thing because I didn't plan it. I just started doing this because we loved, we love these kids. I started opening up our house and we didn't even have the first ad that. Here is the first ad I put in our local community newspaper. It said, ADHD camps. And then teach your kids how to calm themselves down. And I put my phone number and our email and I told my wife, I said, nobody's going to reply to this stuff. All of a sudden, I have like eight people. And I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't have a degree in psychology. I don't have a degree in education. Like, I promised people some camps. So honestly, we just started doing it and people started bringing their kids to our house. It was bizarre. I was like, you don't even know me. Why are you dropping your kid off at my house? And but the, but the. It caught on because it was so unique and different. It wasn't going into therapy to psychoanalyze them there. The kids walked in and there were Legos on the floor. And I knew that it was resonating. The second summer, we had kids fly in from Finland actually to come to our house. And so it just kind of gradually organically evolved. I was still working my corporate job and so the initial name of the company was Celebrate adhd. Because I, I wanted to kick back against that thing of like, ADHD is an awful thing. ADHD is pretty much a predictor of a really good entrepreneur, right? And then someone who's also really disorganized and annoying at times too. It's kind of where it started and then it just kind of organically grew until I got fired from my final corporate job. I worked for America Online and they fired me and I pushed and then they're like, well, you get a six month severance. And I was like, okay, I'm out, I'll sign. And then we just dove into this and it just kind of evolved. I didn't plan it and I think sometimes it works out better that way.
- [11:23]
So from there you started making the recordings, the tapes, the programs, and tell me about the evolution of that and, and about the team that you have around you to do all that.
- [11:34]
Way back 20 years ago, I'd written some novels. That was a way I was going to like reach my dream of not working in the court, in the corporate world. And I failed miserably. So I was like, I'm not writing a book and trying to make money that way. If you guys, whoever's listening, if you want to do that, by all means do it. Just realize it's a brutal process and really hard to make a lot of money. It's good for establishing your credibility, but it's a brutal. So I was walking my dogs one day and I was like, look, I can sell a book for 12 bucks and I'll make about 3 bucks on it maybe. Or I could record these courses and sell them for a lot more. And the idea wasn't just like, I want to be rich making recordings. I mean, I'm basically kind of in the social worker field. So it's not like. But there was a, there was something to it of early on I had, my idea was I want to record things that people can listen to again and again. Because a book you tend to read once and you're like, oh, that's insightful. I'll do it. Like all my business books, all my self help books, they're awesome. And then I like pound it out for like two weeks and then I kind of, you know, and then it kind of goes by the wayside. But with parenting, strong will kids, so much of it is tone of voice. And I want to do recordings because mom could listen, dad could listen, and you could get down the tone of voice that used with a strong willed child. And I saw a book for 12 bucks, but I could sell a course for 99 bucks. And that's a little bit more sustainable than. And so we started recording those. I didn't know what I was doing. I, I knew what I was doing with the strong will. Kids worked really well, but business wise, we, we had a little assembly line in our kitchen where we would get these recordings. And this was back in the day of CDs, so it wasn't. I'm not as old as cassette tapes. Well, I am. I listen to cassette tapes as a kid. But we had CDs. And so my wife would be cooking dinner and we'd be popping a CD into this big rack of things and it would duplicate and then I'd print out. We were like assembling, assembling them by hand and then shipping them out. And it kind of caught on and people really liked it. I've got, I had a newsletter at the time, I still do, but it was big back then, and I just started selling these things and then getting invited to speak. The podcasting again. I started doing that before, like Joe Rogan before, you know, became popular. I was just in my basement in Nashville and I thought maybe eight people will hear me. And so. But nowadays podcasting is the easiest, best way for me to communicate and probably for you to communicate with people. It's amazing.
- [14:29]
Yeah, absolutely. I love hearing that backstory, and I had not heard a lot of that for as long as I followed you. A lot of that was new. And frankly, the reason I wanted to have you on is because I don't think people are kids, but I think people are people and kids are people too. And we don't really change. What works for adults works with kids and vice versa. So I think there's a lot of lessons that you've learned and I've absorbed from you over the years that apply to the corporate world. The biggest one is where you started with the only person you control is yourself. And when you can recognize that and start working on yourself and changing you, that changes your relationship with your kids, with your wife and with your coworkers and your teams. And that's what I think is so interesting and important to talk about. So on that, on that line, what are some of the biggest misconceptions about raising strong willed kids?
- [15:23]
It's, it's the misconception you get from if you have a strong willed child that you probably get from your parents and your family, which is you just need to clamp down on that kid, right? Because going to tell you, you just need to discipline them. And you're like, oh, thanks for the insight. I never thought about actually being firm and following through. But with strong will kids, they literally don't care about consequences. And they will even they will give you their stuff if you don't stop that, I'm going to take away your video. They'll just come hand it to you. Or they'll give you a consequence. They're going to be like, I'm going to give you a consequence, dad. And you're like, what do I do with that? And so. But. But I think it's true, though. Consequences. 10 consequences are important, right? Like, you have to set boundaries and people have to know what they can and cannot do. But it's not like consequences keep us from making bad choices every day. Like, jails are filled. Not because people didn't know the consequence of stealing or murder, they knew the consequence. But there's usually something deeper going on. We all know the consequences of eating at McDonald's all the time. And we do it anyway. Those fries are good, right? And so it's not like we know all the studies. There's usually something deeper going on. And so that's one of those, you know, that the idea that you can force them to do things. And again, this, this isn't permissive parenting. Like, we'll just let them do whatever they want. Not at all. But it's teaching, because discipline literally means to teach. And your point is so good, is it? It applies everywhere. And one of the things I often do with people who work outside the home, either mom or dad, is say, hey, at the office, here's how you talk to your colleagues even when things are going wrong, right? Like, sales are down, competitor got a new product, whatever it is, and you're under pressure. If you walk through your corporate office, yo, sales are down. What were you guys doing? Like, it's not like anybody's going to be like, hey, I've got a great manager who's what? A great leader, right?
- [17:30]
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It just creates chaos.
- [17:32]
Kirk Martin
No, you talk to your team and say, guys, we've got some big challenges here, so let's start to problem solve and come up with a plan. And then we walk through the door of our home and there are Legos on the floor. And I know as a guy, I was like, why are the Legos all over the floor? And I would start screaming, expecting Just because I was the authority figure, that, that was somehow okay. Right. But the authority figure at work tends to talk in an even matter of fact tone and we problem solve. So I often challenge dads, especially who struggle with this, but also moms, hey, for the next week, when you come home from work, treat your kid like you would treat a colleague at the office. Because the colleague that, especially that young colleague that you have, right. You're not going to come and say, you know what, I hired you, but you're not living up to expectations. Either step up your game or you're fired. Well, you can do that. There's nothing really wrong with saying like, hey, but it's not going to be motivating like, thanks, boss, thanks for believing in me. But if you proverbially. I didn't say that. Right. But you put your arm around that young colleague, which you can't really do now because you get in trouble for that. But you know, if you walked, you went for a walk down the hallway and said, look, I hired you. Sure, smart kid, or you're a smart young person, you've got some talent here. But you're struggling in this area. And I'm curious, why are you struggling? What, what tools do you need? Do you need some extra training here? Do you need some insight? Do we need to work on something? Because I believe in you and I know you want to do a good job, but right now you're struggling in this area. Well, that's what we do with a colleague because we problem solve. And they're like, oh, I just need to give you some tools. So it's the same thing with a child who's being defiant, who is acting out, is to say, look, I don't think you want to spend the rest of your life in a, in your room. I don't think you want to be in trouble your entire childhood. Something else is going on. So what do we need to do to fix this? I'm not asking my child. I'm not getting on the same level. So I'm still the authority figure, but I'm just handling it in a different way that leads just to, Honestly, just to a better response from that child.
- [19:46]
Yeah, that's. There's so much good stuff in there. So there was something that I learned from you very early on when I first started listening to you that really hit home. And I want to, want to ask you about that when we come back. So stay with us. We're going to take a short break and we'll be right Back on the Clarity Advisors show, is your business where.
- [20:02]
Ken Trupke
You want it to be or on track to get there? Clarity Advisors helps business leaders improve communication and get your team aligned and engaged for greater success. We specialize in helping you streamline your sales and operating systems to improve efficiency and grow your profits. Call or Text Ken at 616-822-2998 to have a complimentary 12 minute call to see what some Clarity could do for you.
- [20:37]
Kirk Martin
Okay. Welcome back to the Clarity Advisor show. Today we're talking with Kirk Martin, the founder of celebratecom. And Kirk, before the break, I said that there was something that really hit me upside the head and that was that often we're escalating our own problems. So we have this issue with presumably one of our kids, or maybe it's a coworker, but calming it and making it better, we actually escalated and make it worse. So talk about that, you know, concept and how we should address that and, and how we make that a better situation than what we typically do.
- [21:08]
Okay, I'm going to do it from the kids point of view, first parent point point of view, and then we'll take that to the, the corporate world. Here's common example. In our home. So our son, very strong willed. I'd walk into the kitchen and I'd hear him yelling at my wife. So my original thing would go in, you know, what were you thinking? How many times have I told you not to yell at your mother? And all those phrases like, how many times have I told you? They're kind of demeaning phrases, right? It just means basically you're an idiot because I've had to tell you so many times, right? And then I always wondered why it escalated things. And, and then I remember one time I looked at him and said, you can't talk to me that way. And he looked at me and he said, I just did. Right. Like, he was a tough kid. He was not. He's, he's an awesome adult now, but he was a horrible kid. And I'm kidding a little bit with that. But, but I would begin to escalate because, because I would see his face, his face was all red. And I say, keep it up, young man, keep it up. You know, you already lost your video games for one week. You want to make it two. And the strong will child is going to be like, let's just make it four weeks. Because they know you need them to play their video games so, so you can live their life, your life. And so, so I would escalate. He Would start going up to his room because I said, go up to your room. And along the way, I would notice, like, his face was red. And I knew that emotionally he was gone. And a couple things later hit me. One was I was taking out my resentment on him. I was resentful toward my son because he was a difficult kid. And he was. He was. Nothing was easy with him. And so anytime he would do something wrong, then I would use it as an excuse to lay into him. And I kind of justify it in. In, inside. And then the other thing that I noticed was I kind of escalated things on purpose because I wanted him to eventually slam his door and yell at me so that I could walk downstairs to my wife and say, did you hear what your son just said to me? And so you're always going to be justified in feeling angry or frustrated at a child who's not listening. You're justified, but it doesn't mean it's right to go after them. And it just doesn't work. And one of the key insights. And I don't do blame or guilt, right? It's not like you're a horrible parent. It's hard. But the key ins. One of the key insights, what I was really saying to my son was this, Casey, I need you to behave. Because if you don't behave and do exactly what I tell you to do, I'm not sure I can behave. And you do not want to see me angry. In many ways, I was dependent on his behavior so that I could behave. So that ruined everything. I'd come downstairs and I thought I had just stuck up for my wife, right? Like, I just stuck up for my wife. And she was like, no, you didn't. You just ruined the whole night. Like, now he's going to be in his room crying for three hours, and I'm going to have to settle him down and explain that. Your dad doesn't hate you. He just has some unresolved issues from childhood. Right? Which we do. We all do. Don't discount. It's not psychobabble. I'm not a psychobabble guy. But we bring with us stuff from childhood. And the simple fact is you just have to deal with it. There's no shame in it. It's just. It served us well when we did things as a little kid. We just did things to survive and what we learned from our parents. But then that tends to come back and bite us in the butt later in life. So just deal with those things. So here's a different way to handle It. So two quick things I like to encourage parents to do and even people in the corporate world. One is before you discipline, you've got to de escalate. Because nothing, look, even in the corporate world on the football field, nothing good happens in the moment when everybody is tense, it just doesn't work. So I try to de escalate first. So one of our phrases is motion changes emotion. Motion or movement is a really good tool to get people to calm down. That was why even the example of, hey, let me take my colleague, let's go for a walk down the hall or across the corporate campus. That's why that works, because you're, you're moving. No, nobody likes like the big boss, when he calls you in the room, come into my office and he's sitting up really high and looking down at you, it just creates a defensive response. So I would come into the room, next time into the kitchen, say, hey, Case, I can tell you're frustrated. Even matter of fact, tone works really well. No emotion in there. Hey, I can tell you frustrated. Listen, when you're ready, if you want to come play catch with me outside, I'd love to help you with whatever you're struggling with, or in case I tell you you're, you're frustrated, listen, I'm going to go dump the Legos out. When you're ready, if you want to come in, sit on the floor and build a cool spaceship, love to help you with whatever you're struggling with, there's an invitation there to come be with me. But I'm moving. I'm not in the kitchen saying, we need to talk about your attitude right now, young man. Because no child's ever going to be like, great, can't wait, dad, let's do it. While you're angry and I'm upset, it's just you write that doesn't work during those times. So there's something about. And applying it to the business world would be, wait till you are calm. Let's say your employee did do something. My son works for me and occasionally he does things that irritate me. And if I fire off a text or an email right then never works. Or I get an email from a parent about something and I get triggered and I email them right away. They're like, that's not so much the calm approach, is it? And I was like, that's why I wait. But you know, in the corporate world, wait, walk away, wait to bring something up with your team until after lunch, after you ate. If it's one on one with a certain employee, I like acknowledging. So the first thing I did in that room was say, hey, I can tell you're frustrated, validating. I know it sounds like psychobabble, but people really like to be validated. Hey, I know you worked really hard on that project. Right? Because that could be true. They could be. They may have worked really hard on the project, but the deliverables weren't, weren't good. Or their insight, their analysis wasn't on. But you can at least acknowledge, hey, I know you worked really hard on that. But that idea of I validate and then I invite, but I give a little bit of space can often be really helpful. So you don't, so you don't get that defensive response from a, from a colleague. It doesn't have to be boss, it could be a colleague, right? Of, hey, I know you don't mean to do this, but in meetings when you bring X up or you handle it that way, it just, it just makes me feel like my voice isn't being heard or that we're not a team. And I'm wondering, would you go to lunch with me or could we go for a walk? Because I'd really like to figure that out with you. Now I'm problem solving. Otherwise we do the passive aggressive stuff, we talk to other people in the office and then we, then we create teams, right? Oh yeah, I noticed she does that too. Oh yeah. Well, he kind of does that. To do the one on one thing, handling conflict is hard. But if you do it that way and you assume the other person's motives aren't bad, doesn't mean they aren't because sometimes they are. But if you assume that first, you just tend to get a better response.
- [28:49]
Yeah, so much in there. I also work with teams and talk about that idea of giving some space. Like I coach leaders. You don't have to respond in the moment. You're the leader. You can say, hey, if somebody's in your office or on the phone with you and they bring something up, you can say, hey, listen, I really want to give that the attention that it deserves and I can't do that right now. Let me, let me consider that and give you a call back. Or let me consider that let's meet tomorrow or something where just buy yourself some time. And I think, I think it's a principle I learned from you. You know, you say, come in and sit on the floor and don't react to the Legos on the floor. It's the same idea when somebody hits you with something and you have an emotional response to it doesn't mean you have to respond or rather react. You can pause and then give yourself some space to respond. And. And it helps them too, because then they. They hear, you know, to your point about. They want to be appreciated and recognized. And yeah, it's Stephen Covey. The like seek first to understand, then be understood. And so if we acknowledge, hey, I know you worked really hard on that. I know this is important to you, and that's why I want to wait to talk about it, or that's why I want to bring this up. Whatever. I mean, all those things work absolutely. In the corporate world as well. They're so transferable because again, people are people.
- [30:01]
So, yeah, I think even like body posture, it's one of the first things I learned when I switched my parenting was if I would just sit. It changed things. And I give a funny example. But if you have two kids who are fighting, which. If you have two kids, they should be fighting because that's. I mean, it would be weird if your kids always got along. That means they're up to something. So two kids are squabbling in the living room, and then me coming in and just saying, you know what? I buy you guys all these toys and video games. You can't even play well together for 20 minutes. You go to your room, and you go to your room. I just added all my own drama. But if I walk into that room and sit, or even better, this is kind of cool as a parent, and lay down in the middle of the living room floor, I guarantee those kids start squat. Stop squabbling, because they're going to look at you like, what's my mom? What's my dad doing laying down in the middle of the floor? But there's something about sitting that changes my tone of voice. So even again, in the corporate world, walking in and instead of standing in a cubicle over the employee or my colleague and I come and I just sit. It changes something. It creates a different dynamic and you talk a little bit differently. So, yeah, actually, the more I think about this, the more parallels I see between parenting and just literally every single relationship.
- [31:24]
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, people are people. And I've literally tried to translate as much of the stuff that I've learned from you to the workplace and to leadership and working with leaders. And I will literally. And I teach people to squat down in a cubicle. If there's not a chair convenient that you can pull up a chair in their cubicle. Don't Stand there. Because it's exactly the dynamic that you're talking about. It's that I'm up and you're down, I'm in charge and you're below me. And if you literally just squat down, I've yet to have someone say, what are you doing? Are you, like, squat in my cubicle? I mean, you just, you can kind of get down on one knee or just like kind of hunch down. If there's a chair, obviously that's a little less awkward, but sometimes there's not. But to go ahead and just do that. My experience has been that people have appreciated it, or at least they haven't raised, you know, their eyebrow. Like, what do you, what are you doing here? So at some either conscious or subconscious level, it seems to be working. And, and I know that it works with kids at home to get down and look at them or get down to their level or sit on the floor with them, but that standing over, it's so, it's just so unproductive from a relationship standpoint. You know, you don't want to be standing over, you know, your wife or your kids or your colleagues. And so to literally physically get down, it just, I, I, I found that it, it works everywhere.
- [32:38]
You know, it's interesting, I use the analogy from men a lot, that men respect other men who stay cool and calm under pressure. And you watch a good quarterback. The quarterback is the one who goes into the huddle and takes a knee. It's the highest paid. He's the most important guy on the field. He does that. And I use the analogy with men because men sometimes know we little bit more kind of aggressive at times with our language and how we do things. I'm like, if that quarterback comes in the huddle, he's like, we're down by two touchdowns. You don't know what route to run. You keep fumbling the ball, let's go score. Nobody's following that guy. Like, that's, I think that was part of the secret of Tom Brady. For those of you who don't like Tom Brady, it was also because he cheated sometimes, apparently. But even if he cheated for three Super Bowls, he probably has more Super Bowls than your favorite team. So I just say that to trigger you a little bit if you don't like Brady. But, but Brady, the magic of him was in the moment at the end, because they didn't blow people out. The Patriots didn't blow people out. They won at the end of the game, and he just stayed cool and calm under pressure. And I think the message it sent to his team is, I've got this and you can follow me.
- [33:47]
Yeah. And that's what, you know, you've said that that's part of why you wanted to do recordings and, and you do in person events so that people can hear your tone that you wouldn't get from a book. Because it's that tone, it's that calm confidence, it's that steady, even tones that, that makes such a difference. That's what signals confidence. I know you say, you know, what are you going to do? Walk in and go, I need you to calm down. Everybody calm down. Well, clearly you're not calm. And so how do we think that's going to work? And yet we do that, right?
- [34:19]
That's one of my favorite things to say. It, it, it's probably the most uncommon thing to ever. You know what, you just need to calm down. You're like, you know what you need to do, right? Like it just doesn't work. And that's where that validating part, like I do an example of like a little intense little kid who makes a paper airplane and throws it. It doesn't fly right because it's never flies right for the strong willed child. So then he grabs the airplane and crumples it and throws, throws it down. Stupid airplane, I hate that. And every good parent comes, oh buddy, that was a good airplane. Well, that's condescending because the child's like, duh, if it were a good airplane, it would have flown the right way. Right? You're an idiot. Like, that's what they're thinking. But if I walk into that situation and say, you know what, I'd be frustrated too, because you spent a lot of time on that airplane, didn't fly right. That's frustrating. Listen, I've got to go to the bathroom, I've got to go get a drink. When I come back, why don't we problem solve and figure this out? So the intensity of the validation is really important. With a colleague, a co worker with, with an employee of like, oh man, I'd be frustrated too if that happened with hr, I'd be frustrated if the supplier didn't get back to me in time. That's frustrating. So, so in that situation, I validate space, I've got to go do something, we're going to problem solve. And then I come back around. Another key principle. More so with kids, but also with everybody. People don't like to be watched while they're struggling. Right. So you stand over the strong willed child or any child, and they're melting down. You know what, I'm just going to wait here until you can calm down. That doesn't work. Nobody wants to be watched at their worst moment. I mean, tell you this funny story. So I'm not far from the Grand Tetons here, and I hike quite a bit. And I was hiking up and there was this couple from Michigan and they were kind of struggling. So I said, hey, I'll lead you up. Well, it was a guy and his wife. And the wife was really struggling with the hike. And the guy, the husband kept saying, honey, are you okay? And finally she said, if you ask me one more freaking time. So I told the dude he didn't know me. And I said, hey, look, people like, don't like to be watched when they're struggling. Let's just walk ahead because if we give her space, she'll be fine. And I heard her say, thanks. At least someone gets it, you know, it's fun. They didn't know I did the calm thing. It was just kind of at the end of that hike, he said, you know, you're really calm. You would be a good hike expedition leader. And he didn't. Had no idea. But it was. But the principle of, you know, maybe even with your spouse, nobody likes to be watched when they're melting down, when they're struggling. And that's why kind of the space in that validating is so important.
- [37:11]
Yeah, I love that, that sequence of let's acknowledge the reality to come in and go, oh, yeah, I don't know what you're so frustrated about. Well, yeah, they're frustrated because something went wrong, but. And so to validate. Yeah, I get it, you're frustrated. You know, I'd be. I would be too. I love that. So you validate and then, hey, I'm going to go do X, Y and you know, come back and we can. So you give them that space and then the problem solving, so that acknowledgement, validation space to let them kind of recover and give you a chance. I think as a leader, sometimes it's helpful too, because, you know, we hear about this situation, we're like, oh, no, I'm frustrated too. So everybody can do with that space. It's helpful to everybody to have a little bit of a break from the situation. Let's come back and problem solve. And I love that you always say too, like, no blame or guilt. And that again, translates to the workplace. It doesn't benefit anybody to blame and find the guilt. Guilty party here. We're not on a witch hunt. We're trying to run a business and serve customers. And so, hey, what happened, happened. Let's, let's break it down so that now we can find the guilty party and punish, but so that we don't repeat it in the future. But right now we just need to solve this problem. So, you know, validate. Right? Validate space problem solving.
- [38:18]
Yeah. When you were saying that that's kind of like the discipline process of hey, look, you messed up. I get it. You're a kid. It's going to happen. I'm not angry, not interested in sending it to your room. But let's break this down and figure out, okay, next time this situation happens, what are we going to do differently? So you, you had a sales call. It didn't go well, you didn't handle. We lost that contract with, with a, with a big customer. So obviously we don't want that happening a lot. But how do we break it down? Right, because if you're like, you know, you better think about your future here. If you're. None of that really works. Right. It just causes people to tense up. But if you can lead them and say, because you're teaching. Right. And discipline means to teach. And now I'm going to teach my co worker or my employee, hey, next time you're in a sales call and they bring that up, here's a different way to handle it. And then you actually can even role play. I do that with little kids sometimes if they mess up in the home, I'll be like, hey, two choices. One is you lose all your stuff consequence or we rewind and replay that scene. And with little kids, we actually rewind like they walk backwards out of the room. It's kind of fun. And then I physically just replay that of like, hey, why don't you walk into the kitchen again, talk to your mom in a different way or handle that in a different way. But you can do that. Don't make people walk backwards in the corporate world. Unless maybe you work at Google. It might be fun, but with younger people. But, but yeah, that, that whole idea of teaching applies everywhere. And again, we tend to do that better at times in the corporate world than we do in at home. So yeah, take for the next week, just treat your kids like you would treat a colleague.
- [40:11]
Yeah, yeah, Literally just that simple. You know, I think the, the control yourself think, you know, look in the mirror for the problem first and then just treat your kids like you would treat your colleagues. And just those two small pieces of advice it's like an 80, 20 thing. Like you'll get a lot of mileage out of just doing those things. I, I also personally recognized so many things when I kind of got that concept of, you know, treat, you know, your family, your kids like you would a colleague. I didn't acknowledge until I started looking for it how often I was doing the opposite, how often I would, there's no way I would talk to a colleague the way I was talking to the kids. And, and, and you know, you start seeing that and you realize, oh, and then you try it. Like, well, what if I did talk to them? Like I would, you know, with the same level of respect and even tone and all the things that I do at work. What if I try and oh, who knew? It works great because again, people are people and the same thing that works adult often will work with the kid. So especially the strong willed kids who are already two steps ahead of you because they're just like you, right?
- [41:14]
So yeah, they're like old souls. They're, they're very, they're actually very good in the adult world. Like I, I, I joked before, like my son was not good as a kid, but strong will kids aren't great at childhood, but they're really good in the adult world. And you can take a nine year old, put a him in an, or her in an adult situation and they kill it. You ask them to do something simple around the house. I can't do it, right. But if a neighbor comes and says, hey, can you change the oil in my car, take my trash out and cut my lawn, they're like, yeah, I can do that. And at home you ask them to do one thing and it's like, I can't do it. So you know, you're, this is more parenting, but it's seeing that long term vision, right, of like, I am not raising a child to be a child. I'm raising my child to eventually be a young man or young woman. And that's where my son has more excelled in, in the adult world. Casey. My son kills it in the adult world. He was just, we just had to get him there. Yeah.
- [42:13]
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And I think that's a good kind of way to wrap up too. Is that, that the, the hope and the, the vision of the future for parents maybe struggling with the strong willed kids is like you said at the opening, like, those are the future entrepreneurs. They're the ones that are going to push through obstacles. They don't take no for an answer. They want to do it their own way. They're moving and you can't stop them. Those are all things that serve you really, really well in the adult world. And so we just got to get them there, though. And that, that definitely can be the challenge. But a lot of what we talked about today and your materials are what give us the tools to help us help them get from where they are to where they're going to be. So, hey, speaking of your tools, you've got a ton of materials out there and your podcast, tell us where we find your stuff and, and recommendations that you might have for people as to, to what to grab.
- [43:04]
I would, you know what, I would just go listen to the podcast. It's called the Calm Parenting Podcast. It's on every platform. You can find it at our website, celebrate calm.com. just listen to the podcast and, and if you, if you listen, you have questions, just email us. We always mention our email and just say, hey, I, I heard you on that Clarity Advisors podcast. Right? Which is the non parenting podcast. I heard you. And then I'll give extra emphasis to your email. But, but, but listen to the, the podcast we go through, I try to keep them 15 minutes, 25 minutes with some very specific action step every time. And we try to use humor in it, but we're also pretty practical with things. So yeah, if you're interested, I just listen to the podcast and then from there, if you're ever interested in materials, you can buy them off the website or you can email and say, hey, do you have a discount for Clarity Advisors people? I'll say no, I'll probably charge you more, but I'm kidding. But we're glad to help with anything. This is, I always say raising kids is way harder than any job you have in the corporate world. I can work 24 hours a day and do anything at work, but when you come home and your child's like screaming or your spouse is upset, that's the hard work. So, so if we can help, just let us know.
- [44:28]
Absolutely. Well, we'll get some links to those things, your website and the podcast in the show notes. Kirk, it's absolutely been my pleasure to have you. I really appreciate you making some time to do this with us and really been fun talking with you.
- [44:40]
Hey, awesome. Thank you for doing this. I appreciate it.
- [44:42]
Oh, you're so welcome. Okay. And that brings us to the end of another Clarity Advisor show. Thank you so much for joining us. And if you would take a moment to leave a review on the platform, you are watching or listening right now. We would certainly appreciate that as well, and we'll see you next time.
- [44:58]
Ken Trupke
Thank you for listening to the Clarity Advisors show. Clarity Advisors is a speaking, training and consulting firm specializing in helping you simplify your sales and operating systems to improve efficiency and grow your profits. Connect with Clarity Advisors today to learn more about how they can help you improve communication and get your team aligned and engaged for greater success.