Child Doesn’t Want Any Restrictions on Screen Time? 4 Script Options

Summary

Calm Parenting Podcast: "Child Doesn’t Want Any Restrictions on Screen Time? 4 Script Options"

Host: Kirk Martin
Release Date: October 15, 2023
Description: Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm, offers practical strategies for parents dealing with strong-willed children. Drawing from his extensive experience with over 1,500 challenging kids, Kirk provides honest, effective, and often humorous advice to help parents navigate power struggles, defiance, and behavioral challenges.

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Introduction

In the October 15, 2023 episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast, host Kirk Martin addresses a common yet challenging scenario: children resisting any restrictions on their screen time. This episode delves into practical strategies and script options for parents struggling with strong-willed children who argue against limitations and seek complete autonomy over their digital lives.

Understanding the Challenge

Kirk opens the discussion by presenting a relatable dilemma faced by many parents:

Kirk Martin [01:20]: "My son doesn't want to have any limits on his screen time, won't keep parental controls on his phone and turns off location tracking so I can't see where he goes. He says I'm too strict in controlling. What should I do?"

He acknowledges the frustration and identifies the root of the issue: the balance between granting independence and maintaining appropriate boundaries.

Self-Reflection for Parents

Before diving into solutions, Kirk emphasizes the importance of parental self-reflection:

Kirk Martin [02:39]: "Do some inner reflection on that, right? Do you tend to micromanage your child? Do you lecture too much? Are you overly involved?"

He suggests that stepping back and reducing micromanagement can empower children to become more responsible:

Casey Martin [02:42]: "When we step back as parents and stop micromanaging, it gives our kids space to step up and be responsible for themselves."

Setting Realistic Expectations

Kirk cautions parents not to expect appreciation or understanding from their children when enforcing limits:

Kirk Martin [03:23]: "They also partially see the bit, right? Like who's this teenager demanding things of his parents like this? Who does he think he is?"

He underscores that strong-willed children are unlikely to welcome restrictions willingly and may resist vehemently.

Four Script Options for Handling Screen Time Restrictions

Kirk presents four distinct approaches for parents to handle children’s resistance to screen time limitations. Each option offers a different strategy, allowing parents to choose what best fits their family dynamics.

1. Assertive Boundaries with Clear Consequences

In this approach, parents firmly establish the necessity of limitations while outlining the responsibilities that come with privileges.

Kirk Martin [10:24]: "You have every right to say something like this to your child... We have to continue to provide reasonable restrictions so you don't make typically horrible teenage decisions and mess up your life."

Key Points:

• Clearly communicate the reasons for restrictions.
• Highlight the reciprocal nature of privileges and responsibilities.
• Prepare for and remain steadfast against pushback and emotional reactions.

2. Establishing a Social Contract

This method involves creating a mutual agreement between parent and child, outlining rights and responsibilities.

Kirk Martin [11:50]: "Write down specifically what rights and freedoms you want to have... and then we can agree on a social contract between us."

Key Points:

• Encourage the child to list desired freedoms and corresponding responsibilities.
• Compare with parents’ own list to identify imbalances.
• Use the social contract as a tool to teach accountability and fairness.

3. Conditional Autonomy with Strict Limits

Here, parents grant a degree of freedom but impose strict conditions and clearly defined consequences for missteps.

Kirk Martin [15:00]: "If you mess up, I.E., if we do catch you... then it's going to be complete lockdown."

Key Points:

• Offer limited autonomy with specific boundaries.
• Define clear consequences for violating rules.
• Encourage the child to prove their responsibility over time.

Note: Kirk mentions that this option is not his preferred method but acknowledges its reasonableness in certain scenarios.

4. Building Trust Through Relationship and Example

Kirk’s favored approach focuses on strengthening the parent-child relationship to foster mutual trust and respect.

Kirk Martin [21:03]: "I have to live with that and be strong in that, otherwise you're going to create a monster."

Key Points:

• Prioritize relationship-building over immediate compliance.
• Demonstrate trustworthiness and responsible behavior as a parent.
• Allow the child to earn privileges through consistent, positive behavior.

Real-Life Example:

Kirk shares a personal story about his son, Casey, demonstrating the effectiveness of this approach:

Kirk Martin [20:42]: "Son, my friends make up excuses and come home after curfew, but I know that you don't do excuses. So I decided to come home early to show you that I can control myself so you don't have to."

Casey’s mature response led to a gradual increase in curfew times, underpinning the success of fostering trust and responsibility:

Kirk Martin [22:31]: "He didn't sneak out that night. It was the relationship that provided the breakthrough there."

Conclusion and Final Advice

Kirk wraps up the episode by encouraging parents to balance firmness with flexibility:

Kirk Martin [28:04]: "Be tough and firm and also realistic and reasonable. Don't be a pushover. Provide boundaries and expect your kids to earn their freedom and privileges, just not your love and acceptance."

He emphasizes that maintaining a trusting and respectful relationship is paramount:

Kirk Martin [28:09]: "Work on your relationship more than anything else if you're struggling with that, especially if it's a slightly older child."

Additionally, Kirk promotes his "No B.S. program", offering 25 concrete action steps to rebuild parent-child relationships, highlighting the value of structured guidance in overcoming these challenges.

Key Takeaways

• Self-Reflection: Parents should assess their own behaviors and control styles to create a healthier dynamic.
• Clear Communication: Establishing and communicating boundaries is essential, even if met with resistance.
• Mutual Agreements: Creating social contracts can help balance rights and responsibilities between parents and children.
• Trust Building: Prioritizing the relationship and demonstrating trust can lead to more responsible behavior from children.
• Consistency: Being firm yet flexible helps in maintaining authority without fostering rebellion.

Notable Quotes

• Kirk Martin [03:23]: "Your most lasting agreements with your kids are going to be because you're doing it based on trust."
• Casey Martin [22:31]: Reflects maturity and responsibility, foundational to earning trust.
• Kirk Martin [28:05]: "Don't make decisions based on whether your child will be upset with you or doesn't like any oversight."

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For parents seeking further assistance, Kirk encourages reaching out via the Celebrate Calm website or contacting Casey directly for personalized strategies and support. By implementing these script options and focusing on building a trusting relationship, parents can effectively navigate the complexities of screen time restrictions and foster a more harmonious household.

Transcript

[Kirk Martin]

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[Kirk Martin]

I bet you can't relate to this at all. So here's a common question. My son doesn't want to have any limits on his screen time, won't keep parental controls on his phone and turns off location tracking so I can't see where he goes. He says I'm too strict in controlling. What should I do? Well, that is what we're going to discuss on today's episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast. So welcome. This is Kirk Martin. I'm founder of Celebrate Calm. You can find us@celebrate calm.com if you need help, reach out to our son Casey. You'll hear a little bit about him in this podcast about how we handle that. It's C A s e y celebratecalm.com Tell us about your family. What are the ages of the kids? What are you struggling with most? We get together as a family, talk about it. We will reply back to you directly with some very specific strategies for you to try. If you need help with any of our programs, ask Casey about it and he'll help you if you need help financially. So let's jump into this. So my first question for you is, are you too strict in controlling in other areas? Right now I can't answer that for you in a podcast, but do some inner reflection on that, right? Do you tend to micromanage your child? Do you Lecture too much? Are you overly involved? Trying to make your child somehow be successful?

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

Those are just good questions. Ask yourself.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

You know our principle. When we step back as parents and stop micromanaging, it gives our kids space to step up and be responsible for themselves. Right? So when we step back from lecturing all the time, from always micromanaging, it actually gives your kids space to make their own decisions, to be responsible for themselves. And that's a really good thing. So I want you to start there. But my hunch with screens is that you're not too strict or controlling, you're just trying to be a responsible parent. Right? No teenager wants oversight or limitations on them, Right? It's predictable. They want all the rights and none of the responsibilities.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

Think about this. It would be weird if your teenager came home and said, listen mom and dad, I'm not ready to handle all this freedom. I just learned a biology that my prefrontal cortex required to make good decisions isn't really fully formed until I'm about 27. Therefore, for my own good, I think I should have restrictions on my screen usage and parental controls. I can't even trust myself to make good decisions that aren't impulsive. So I can't imagine you'd be responsible parents if you didn't limit me for my own good. You know, that's not happening. And so I partly laugh when I hear these teenage demands because it is so predictable. But I also partially see the bit, right? Like who's this teenager demanding things of his parents like this? Who does he think he is? Right? So I do want you to set appropriate expectations of your teenager inside your head. They're not going to like just about anything that you do or say. Let me correct that. Appropriate expectations of your strong willed child of any age. The not going to like any limitations. They don't like to be told no.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

They don't like anything you're going to say. They're not going to like your. Right. Like just your very presence at times, Right? They won't like the sound of your voice. They're going to think that they're smarter than you look. Some of you have 5 year olds and you write in and you say like she's 5 going on 25. Right? That's because they're old souls and they are very bright. And by the way, that's why I like to give them adult type jobs and responsibilities because they're really good at that. They're just terrible at kid things.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

And these are kids who are Extremely impulsive.

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

Their lives center around social acceptance and the now. What is happening in the moment? And that's gotten even worse because what do we have? We have Snapchat. We have everything is like right now, right now. So part of your job is to provide perspective and slow them down so they don't make short sighted, life altering decisions.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

And so by the way, I'll try to get to that in another podcast. But how do you speak to these kids as they get older? I like providing perspective. Right, here's quickly. Hey, Case, here's what I found in life. I found that when people do X, it tends to work better for them and when they do Y, it just tends not to work out. Hey, I've got it. I've got to go run an errand. When I get back, if you need some help with that or if you want to talk about it, just let me know.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

So I give perspective, I give wisdom. And then I let them process it, think about it and own it themselves instead of always telling them what to think or how to think. That's actually, this is actually really good. Instead of telling them what to think or how to think, I let them know how I think about situations and then I let them own it themselves. Because, you know, with a strong willed child, if you try to force it on them, they're just going to resist it all the time. So your job is to provide perspective. Right. And slow their world down. But do not expect them to like this. Don't expect them to appreciate. They're not going to be like, mom, dad, you have so much wisdom. I so appreciate you doing it. They're not going to say that. Don't expect them to understand that right now. You know, in our curriculum and our, in how we do things, we try to collaborate and problem solve. But at the end of the day, sometimes you just have to be the mean parent who just actually parents your kids right now. Look, the little side note, so many parents are writing in phone consultations saying like, oh, my son just doesn't like oversight. He'll be really upset if we limit his screen time. And my flippant response to that reasoning is, fine, then please don't ever make any decisions that will disappoint your child. I mean, we don't want them to have to deal, we don't have to deal with our child's unpleasant emotions or unhappiness. Just give them what they want and then we'll never, never have to deal with their emotions or conflict. Right now that's certainly an option, especially if you don't mind raising or creating a monster who you're teaching to bully others emotionally to get what they want, and who ultimately won't respect you, even though they will like or tolerate you now because you give them what they want. It's totally up to you, but please don't make decisions based on whether your child will be upset with you or doesn't like any oversight. So just think about that yourself for a minute.

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[Kirk Martin]

So here are four options for how to handle a child who doesn't want any limitations on his screen time, his phone, his apps or video game time. Here's option number one. You have every right to say something like this to your child. Hey, look, son, daughter, until you are completely responsible for yourself, then we're responsible for you. See you having a phone and clothes and food and a safe home and entertainment and everything you else, everything else you do that places limitations on us. We have to work and sacrifice to pay for all that. We have to sacrifice our time to take you places. What if we came home and said, you know, we don't want all these limitations placed on us. We've worked hard for 30 years and just want to relax and travel now you know what? You're on your own. Pay for everything yourself. See, you wouldn't like that. So we will continue to provide reasonable restrictions so you don't make typically horrible teenage decisions and mess up your life. Because that's what a responsible, good parent does. Right now, your child is not going to like this decision at all. So you can expect the silent treatment. Expect worse. Expect them throwing things, right? Expect them getting very upset at you. Expect to have to clamp down or cut off service to their phones.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

When your child predictably calls your bluff, turns off parental controls or leaves his phone somewhere while he's going elsewhere with his friends, he's just not going to accept your decision. That would be very unlike a strong willed child. But you can't let your child play it both ways, right? You can't let him get away. Well, I'm just a kid, right? When he doesn't want responsibility, right? Or say like I'm grown up enough to handle things. When he doesn't actually want oversight, right? When he hems and hauls, you can say, unfortunately it just, it appears you're not actually ready to be responsible for yourself because this is just how life works. Son or daughter, okay? So that's a reasonable approach to take. Here's option number two. Son, daughter. Of course you don't want any limitations placed on you. That's very normal and I respect your desire for independence. Before I make a decision, let's do the following. Write down specifically what rights and freedoms you want to have. Write that down, make a list what rights and Freedoms do you think you deserve? What do you. What do you want to have? And then below that, write down your specific responsibilities with regard to home life, school, your family. And I'm also going to do the same thing. I'm going to make a list of my expected rights and also my responsibilities to you. And then we can agree on a social contract between us. Because I think it would be instructive for your teenager or your kids of any age actually to hear how skewed your list is with a dozen responsibilities and very few rights. And if your teenager comes back with too few responsibilities listed, you can flatly say, look, it's clear to me you're not ready to be an adult. You're not ready for all this freedom right now. Here's the opposite side. If your child's list is reasonable, you can give it a try. Give him some of those rights, right? But you also have the right to rescind this agreement for breach of contract if and more likely when he predictably doesn't quite follow through on his promised responsibilities. I kind of like that approach because now you're teaching. Look, the first approach is perfectly fine. Look, here's how it works in our home, right? You're not. You're not old enough. You're not responsible enough. So I make the decisions, and if I didn't, I'd be a horrible parent. Too bad. Deal with it. That's perfectly fine. If you want to do that. I don't have a problem at all with that. You're not being mean, right? You're not, you're not. You're not making it personal, like you've never been responsible.

[Casey Martin]

How are we going?

[Kirk Martin]

You're just saying, like, look, this is just how life works. Son, daughter, just how life works. Okay? Second option is, hey, let's brainstorm a little bit. Let's problem solve here. Let's really think this through. You make a list of all your rights and freedoms you want and your responsibilities, and I'm going to do the same. And then we'll compare them. And if you come up with a list where you have a really good list of rights and freedoms, but there's also responsibilities attached and you stick to that, hey, that shows me that you're being an adult and that you're capable of doing it, and I'm willing to try that now, if it doesn't work out, I'm going to rescind that agreement, right? So that's fair to me as well. Okay, Option number three, son. We are going to give you what you want, you are demanding almost complete autonomy over your life. No restrictions on your phone, no tracking you right now, you're still going to have a couple chores at home. You got a curfew, right? You've all those things, but you get to make your own decisions. But here's what I really want you to think about. If you mess up, I. E. If we do catch you, right, if you start vaping, if you get caught drinking or doing drugs, if you start failing classes, demonstrate that you actually cannot handle all of this freedom you want, then it's going to be complete lockdown. No phone, no freedom, no trust. So I want you to think about this for a couple days because the consequences are huge if your teenage brain doesn't handle freedom the way you thought it could. Now, I don't necessarily recommend this option, it's not my favorite, but it's reasonable. You could say, okay, take the reign. Son or daughter, go ahead, you told us you can handle this, go ahead and do it. But we're going to measure this, right? And here, there are certain things that you cannot do, right? Whatever you choose that they are with the drinking, with the drugs, with the vaping, with failing classes, whatever you want to put that on, say, look, fine with that. But if these things happen now, we're going lockdown, right? So if your child wants to be treated like an adult, then he or she needs to act like one. And then if they can't, then the restrictions get even tighter. Now here's option number four. As you can guess, I probably saved it till the end because I really like this one. And this is the option we used with Casey. And this is why if you need anything with us, you reach out to Casey because he's lived, look, he's lived the life of your strong willed child. He's seen it from so many different angles. When we had these camps in our home where we had, you know, we had 1500 kids come through our home over the course of the decade. That was all through Casey's childhood. He experienced all of that, all of those kids, all of these learnings. And so he gets it. And so, you know, reach out to him. And look, when you reach out to him, I give you his email address. I see every email that comes through. Celebrate Calm. I built this. This is my passion life. It's not like Casey gets separate emails. I read them all. And you'll find that sometimes I answer your emails directly and then sometimes Casey answers them. And sometimes we just collaborate and talk about them. And then one of US replies back, right? But if you need anything, reach out to Casey because he really does get it and he's really good with this stuff. So Casey's about 12. When he came home one night, he's like, I want a later curfew. Which then was 9pm and I remember shifting in my chair, trying to hide my smile, right? Because I was like, of course. That's what any teen or preteen wants, right? And I was doing that while thinking for a moment. Now, I forced myself to get in the habit of not responding immediately to Casey because it usually made things worse. Let me repeat that because I'm going to give that as a goal, a challenge for you. Make it a habit in life. George Washington had this great phrase. He says, I make it a rule in life that I always do X or I never do this. So I make it a rule in life that I never respond immediately, especially to my strong will child. Because it usually makes things worse, right? Because I'd say something emotional or I'd say something kind of off the cuff, maybe a little bit sarcastic, which would trigger him, and then he'd do the same thing to me. And it created this vicious cycle. So I paused and then I finally said, you know what? It makes sense to me that you'd want a later curfew right now instead of getting into negotiation, which I know you will win, because your kids are awesome negotiators. And they've got their reasoning all lined up, right? This is all they think about, right? They were at school, they weren't paying attention. They were thinking about, here's the conversation with my mom and dad, here are all my bullet points, and here's my awesome logic, right? They're very good at it, right? So instead of negotiating with you, right. I have one question for you, Casey. What can you do to demonstrate that we can trust you with a later curfew? I wanted to put it back on him. See, when your kids come like, I want a later curfew, they're putting the question on you, right? And then there's often, as we talked about earlier, sometimes there's some emotional bullying that goes along there, right? So what I wanted to do is say, no, no, no, no. What can you do to demonstrate that we can trust you with a later curfew? So I saw the disappointment register on his face, right? I know he wanted me to say, you know what? You're such an amazing young man, you should be stay out till 11 o'clock.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

But he didn't react because he Knew that I wasn't just going to roll over and give him what he wanted. And there's an important part. Look, you hear me talk all the time about building the relationship and trust and collaboration, problem solving. But there's a part of parenting where you have to be able to say no and not be moved because they're unhappy.

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

Or because they're disappointed in you. And you have to live with that and be strong in that, otherwise you're going to create a monster. So he walked away and he didn't say anything. And it was uncomfortable. And that's okay because you're going to have some conflict in every relationship. Right? So I began noticing this pattern. He began coming home at 8:52, at 8:57, at 8:53. He didn't come home late or call to plead or negotiate. He came home early. And so one night I said, hey, Case, what's up with this whole coming home early thing? And here were his exact words. Dad, my friends make up excuses and come home after curfew, but I know that you don't do excuses. So I decided to come home early to. To show you that I can control myself so you don't have to. And I thought either you are the most manipulative kid in the world. Partly true. Or that's really good wisdom. Also true. It's a little bit of both. So let me repeat that little sentence again because it's great wisdom. Dad, Mom, I wanted to show you that I could control myself so you don't have to. That became the basis for his program. It's called Straight talk for kids. How to get the freedom you want.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

It's amazing program. It's part of the calm parenting package, or to get everything package, if you get it. And it's also the basis of school assemblies that he used to do all across the country.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

We've got about a half million kids who've listened to that wisdom right between the downloads, right? Kids can listen. Right. On the app. And school assemblies. It was brilliant. He didn't argue. He didn't negotiate. He showed me by his actions. So my response was, you know what, Case? That's really brilliant. It's very mature. You know what your new curfew is? 9:15. And of course, he was dumbfounded. He was outraged, right? What do you think he said? Seriously, Dad, I spent all those nights coming home early and all I get is a lousy 15 minutes extra, right? And look, my response could have been, you know what? If you're not going to have A good attitude and you're not be grateful for what I get you then. Your new curfew is going to be 8:00, right? Just please be realistic, parents, right? You're taught. Of course he was disappointed and I knew he was going to be. He didn't walk around slamming doors and calling me a horrible parent that time, right? You just said all, I guess allows you 15 minutes. There's a reason why I said, yeah, but here's what I know, Casey. If you keep doing these little things right, you'll be at 10pm before you know it. Let me repeat that. If you keep doing the little things right, I can't tell you how often that phrase, how that little bit nugget of wisdom that I shared with M. Case, do the little things right, bosses will promote you. He's 30 now. He just got promoted to be general manager of the largest catering company in Jackson Hole while he's working for me. You know why? Because he does the little things right with a good attitude, right? Because he told them, I will do all the jobs that nobody else wants to do. Because that's what I taught him when he was a teenager. Go in, always tell your boss, I will do all the work that nobody else wants to do. And I also knew that the truth is a boss will hear that and say, I'm not going to give you the lousy jobs, I'm going to give you the good ones because you're the responsible one, right? So I told him that, look, you keep doing this, you're going to be at 10pm before you know it.

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[Kirk Martin]

Now this is really important. That partly went so well because we had spent time rebuilding a trusting relationship. So focus on that more because relationships and connection, humility, that's what changes the human heart. Trust builds lasting agreements, right? You can have a legal document, right? But that's not. That doesn't mean you have a trusting relationship. That's just a legal document. And I'm fine with the first two, two or three options we talked about. Those tend to be more legal documents of how we're going to do it because I'm the authority figure and this is how it works. And sometimes that's perfectly right and reasonable way to do it. But your most lasting agreements with your kids are going to be because you're doing it based on trust. Now, I'll tell you a quick side story. I haven't told this in a while. I remember Casey and I were at odds over something, right? He wanted to do something as A teenager. It was go out doing this overnight thing, kind of an overnight party with all of these. All these kids, and I didn't know some of them. And look, we had a very healthy debate over it. He made some really good points about why I should trust him to go to this overnight party. Right? And at the end of the night, we were at a stalemate, and I knew that ultimately I get the deciding vote, right? So to speak. Because I'm his father, right? Yours, mother, you're the authority figure. I get. I get the ultimate deciding vote, right? We're not. So. But I didn't want to just pull the authority figure. I'm the boss, and this is a dictatorship card, because you know what I've learned? Dictatorships aren't that awesome places to live.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

And I don't want to do a dictatorship.

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

It's not what I'm after. And so I simply looked at him and I said, casey, do you trust that I have your best interest at heart? And he was disappointed and he was dejected, but he nodded because he knew that was the foundation of this. It wasn't because you're the father and you get to ultimately decide, which is a truth. You're the mother, you're the authority figure. What he ultimately knew was that I did have his best interests at heart. It wasn't just that I loved my son. It's that I really put thought into these things, and we had good conversations about all of these things, and we shared back and forth, and I listened to him and I acknowledged all of his good points. But he knew at the end of the day, right. That he could trust me. So he nodded, he gave me a hug, and he went off to bed. And he didn't sneak out that night. Right. It was the relationship that provided the breakthrough there. Right? So let me wrap this up. I want you to be tough and firm and also realistic and reasonable. Right? Don't be a pushover. Don't allow yourself to be bullied or emotionally blackmailed by your child. But also, don't be too rigid either. Right? Don't just be Dr. No to everything. Right. Provide boundaries and expect your kids to earn their freedom and privileges, just not your love and acceptance. Right? But they've got to earn their freedom and privileges.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

Use one or more of the scripts or strategies that I just went through.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

But I really want you to work on your relationship more than anything else if you're struggling with that, especially if it's a slightly older child. I go through the 20. Look we have a program. It's just I'll be no B.S. it's called the no B.S. program. It's one of the best things that I have ever put together. Has written stuff for you. It's 25 specific concrete action steps to go through. It is so powerful and good. It's one of the things that we don't talk about enough, but I'd encourage you go through that. It's extremely affordable on our website. It's actually, if I'm being honest, I should price it higher so people place more of a value on it because it can literally rebuild your relationship with your child. Right. And look, if you ever want specific help finding that balance of independence, the rights and responsibility for your kids, if you want to schedule a couple phone calls with me, that's an option too. And we'll come up with a specific game plan together.

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

But if we can help you in any way, let us know. It's what we're here for. Thanks for listening. Thanks for sharing this with other parents. Please continue to share this. I hope you find it helpful. And look, we love you all. Appreciate you very much. Talk to you soon.

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