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- [00:01]
Kirk Martin
Hey moms and dads, don't you just.
- [00:03]
Casey Martin
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Kirk Martin
Like ours and your happiness is Skylight's happiness.
- [00:49]
Casey Martin
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- [01:21]
Kirk Martin
Do you ever feel like you're letting your kids get away with things? Like you're being too sweet or accommodating? Of course you do, because parenting a strong willed child is hard work. But sometimes parents associate being calm with being too sweet or being a pushover. But being calm does not mean being a doormat. There are times when you can be understanding of your child's reaction or attitude, but being too sweet or reassuring at other times can actually make kids more insecure. It blurs the lines, right? So there are times that you must be more stern. So when do you draw the line? Where do you draw that line? And how can you be stern without being mean? Without making it personal? Without shaming your child? That's what we're going to discuss on today's episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast. So welcome. This is Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm. You can find us@celebratecalm.com if you need help. Reach out to Casey C A S e y celebrate calm.com that's our strong willed child and he knows all about this because he was basically your child and maybe even harder, right? But now he's a young man. He knows how this works and so reach out to him. Let us know, what are you struggling with? How old are your kids? We get together as a family. We discuss it. We will reply back to you. Usually very Quickly with some very practical tools.
- [02:39]
Sponsor
Why?
- [02:40]
Kirk Martin
That's our family mission. If you need help with any of our resources, and you do need help, you do need our resources, otherwise you wouldn't be listening to this podcast. They're just really helpful. It's so much good insight, so many strategies that will just change the way you see your strong willed child and how you begin to even just controlling yourself. If you need help with those, either just go on the website and get the calm parenting package or the get everything that's the easiest thing to do. Or if you need help financially, just ask Casey about that. We'll help you. So one of the toughest parts about parenting and relationships and especially raising a strong willed child is, is that all those black and white absolutes that you were counting on before you actually had children just don't apply when you have a more challenging child, right? Everything that you try on the compliant child tends to backfire on the more challenging child. Remember those days before you had kids when you say, yeah, you know, when we have kids we will never do X. And now you find yourself bribing a toddler to be quiet with crates of popsicles to get through a third 30 hour cross country drive. That's a personal thing to my friend Josh. Look, we were the worst. We thought we had it all figured out before little Casey ever entered this world and caused us to question everything. But this is actually pretty serious, right? Because one of the benefits of making distinctions and being stern, right? And being direct and decisive is defining boundaries so kids know what is acceptable and what is not. And I'll just add this as an aside. I want you to do this and figure this out now. Because if your kids enter into the teenage years and they see their friends saying horrible things to their parents or seeing it on TikTok, they will try that with you. And I don't want that happening. So here are three examples of how and when to be stern with your kids without being mean or hurtful. Now I'm going to begin with smaller, less severe examples first. Then, then we'll end with the big one. So I kind of divide this because sometimes there's just like themes in these. So I came up with like our first one is the parable of the picky girl, right? So this really great but frustrated mom emailed about her daughter. She said every morning, no matter how many clothes options she gives her daughter, this little girl cries and whines and eventually screams, I don't know what I want to wear. That's too, itchy you're stupid, right? She badgers her mom to make it better and give her options. It's a nightmare. Horrible way to start the day, right? So no matter how many times mom reassures her in a sweet, patient, calm voice, the daughter just stays stuck in this endless cycle. So, a few thoughts before I give you the exact thing to do here. 1. This is actually pretty common. I say that because sometimes you think you're the only one or that you're doing something wrong or your child needs some kind of professional help. But this dynamic with being picky about clothes, food, textures, getting overwhelmed with too many choices, it's really common among our very particular sensitive sensory kids.
- [05:51]
Listener
Right?
- [05:51]
Kirk Martin
I'm 57 in particular. When I find shirts or pants that I like, guess what I do? I buy like three pairs of them. That way I get what I like and I don't have to go shopping, which I hate, for years. And my family gets to experience the experience the joy of seeing me in the same clothes every day for years. And they don't have to listen to me whine about shopping for years. So win. Win. So, a couple side notes before we get to the stern stuff, right? Stop fighting your kids over clothes. If they like wearing the Same hoodie sweatshirt 17 straight days in a row, who cares? It saves you money on new clothes and detergent, saves you time from doing laundry. And you don't waste water washing your clothes, right? Just buy them two of the same sweatshirt and say, enjoy this year. Save a lot of money too.
- [06:42]
Listener
Right?
- [06:42]
Kirk Martin
I saw the other kid. I saw this kid the other day. He's wearing his button down, right? Button down shirt over his sweater, right? Right. That's opposite of how you're supposed to wear it. And guess what? I knew that was one of our sensitive sensory kids. It's a little bit odd. One of my favorite morning routine ideas is to let your kids sleep in the clothes they're going to wear the next day. That way they wake up and guess what? They're ready. It's brilliant, right? And I know with winter coming in a few months, most of your kids are still going to wear to wear shorts. They don't want to wear a confining jacket. Just roll with it. Let that power struggle go. Okay, so back to our daily drama over clothes. I encourage you to watch this dynamic because it happens frequently with our kids when they are anxious or unsure of themselves. Your presence as the parent will often make the situation worse, right? And just trying to reassure them in a sweet choice, gentle voice will make it even worser, right? I know that's not a word. So it's not that your kids are just acting out for attention. It's not that at all. But it's like they sometimes perform or over dramatize things because the parent is standing over them. It's just kind of a strange dynamic. But I know because I'm guilty of it myself. It's like I feed off of that energy of someone next to me and I get even more anxious and dramatic. But when I'm by myself, I just handle it. There's no one there to feed off of, right? So likewise, when given space, our kids don't always react so dramatically. And I want to caution you against this. Beware of the trap of trying to please someone who cannot and does not want to be pleased in that moment. Beware of the trap of trying to reason with someone who's so emotional that it can't be reasoned with. It's a waste of time, makes everybody angry. Beware the trap of getting sucked into the drama, right? Because you're going to want to lecture, you're going to want to reason, you're going to get, don't do it. Beware of the trap of trying to convince your child of something or trying to fix their mood. Doesn't work. So in this case, here's what I'd recommend. I want you to adopt a matter of fact tone. Perhaps see the word stern. I don't necessarily want to be stern here, but very matter of fact, very businesslike, right? You could lay out some options for clothes or not, because sometimes too many options can be overwhelming. But then you say very matter of factly, without any emotion at all. And I know this is a tough part because it will feel very cold to some of you, but I promise you it is necessary that you learn this tone because it's very, very comforting and reassuring to the child. Hey Sarah, I laid out some good options for you. Now I need to go get ready for work myself. I believe you can figure this out for yourself because you're just so grown up and then you walk away so they do it again. Hey Sarah, I laid out some good options for you, but now I need to go get ready for work myself. And see, while you're doing this, you're not standing over the child. You're kind of in motion a little bit right now. I need to go get ready for myself. But I know you can figure this out because you're such a grown up and then you walk away. Now, when your daughter inevitably Begins to whine and complain and melt down. Do your best not to give any energy to this. Do not reassure in a sweet tone. Oh, honey, it's okay. I love you. Don't do that. Do not get outwardly frustrated. Inwardly, of course, but not outwardly. Don't lecture. You know what? I go out of my way to buy you all these new clothes that you said you'd wear, but then you just. None of that. Do not threaten out a frustration. You know, if you're going to make this so difficult anymore, I'm not buying you new clothes or anything new ever again. It's not helpful.
- [10:43]
Listener
Right?
- [10:44]
Kirk Martin
So being sweet doesn't work, but threatening and getting upset and frustrated yourself, that doesn't work either because they're going to feed off of your frustration. So stay very busy. Business like which I know sounds cold, but it's not in this case. It's a very loving and reassuring voice.
- [11:04]
Listener
Right?
- [11:05]
Kirk Martin
So either don't address it directly at all. And keep giving her space to figure it out.
- [11:11]
Listener
Right.
- [11:12]
Kirk Martin
Hey, I'm going to go get started on breakfast. You say that from another room, but don't even pop your head into her room.
- [11:19]
Listener
Right?
- [11:19]
Kirk Martin
If you do go in the room, you will see your daughter in all of her frustration and shame and embarrassment that she can't even get dressed by herself. So I personally would just stay away.
- [11:32]
Listener
Right?
- [11:33]
Kirk Martin
You could experiment with saying this as you quickly pass her room and head downstairs. Hey, honey, can't wait to see how pretty you look. Or can't wait to see what you wear this morning. Or I just avoid that altogether and say, hey, when you come down for breakfast, let's make plans for your play date with Sophia. Right? So if you have to address it, state factually, hey, I know you've got this. You're really good at mixing colors and making things look pretty. You could say this. Kiss her quickly on the forehead and then disappear very quickly and give her space to figure it out without standing over her space. Even tone. No reassuring tone or offers to help because that makes it worse. Does that make sense? Okay, let's go on to the second example.
- [12:22]
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- [13:42]
Kirk Martin
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- [13:45]
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- [14:07]
Kirk Martin
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Kirk Martin
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- [14:35]
Kirk Martin
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Kirk Martin
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- [14:54]
Kirk Martin
So I call this the Parable of the Insecure Kids. So here's an example of being increasingly direct and stern. A mom wrote about her two kids constantly comparing who mom favors more, who she reads more books to, saying it's not fair and all those things. Here is what I would try from now on. I'd adopt a no nonsense, even somewhat stern tone and say something like this in a very direct manner. Guys, I don't do fairness. Fairness doesn't exist. What does exist is this. I have unconditional, limitless love for both of you and I expect both of you to grow up and begin acting like you're loved and cared for. Then you walk out of the room and let them marinate in that for a few minutes. See, far. It's not mean in any way. Let me do it again so you can kind of get the tone. See, there's something about the directness, the confidence of this. Rather than trying to convince some guys, you know what? I love you so much, and I try to do this and I do that, convincing doesn't work, so let me do it again. Guys, I don't do fairness. Fairness doesn't exist. What does exist is this. I have unconditional, limitless love for both of you, and I expect both of you to grow up and begin acting like you're loved and cared for. Mic drop. Walk out of the room and let them just soak that in for a few minutes.
- [16:18]
Listener
Right?
- [16:19]
Kirk Martin
It is. See, this is definitive. It's direct. It's a concise statement, right? It is said with conviction. And this is way more reassuring than two trying too hard to convince your kids about your feelings. Trying to reinsure and convince. Look, it makes your kids feel more insecure. It's like it validates and plays into their insecurity, and it's playing into their little game. Mom, you love him more. Mom, you do that. Mom, you don't like me. See, when you respond to that and try to convince you're playing right into that game, and I'd rather say, you know what? I'm not playing that game. This stops now. See, a decisive statement of truth provides clarity. It also carries the expectation that they're going to stop doing this because you're just not playing that game. I hope that makes sense. Third one, and this is the reason for the podcast. This is the parable of the food tosser. I just like that one. So here's the example that inspired this podcast. A really great mom who wrote in. She just wrote in for the second time. And because I'm calm and want to help, I answered her a second time. So the first time, please let me have fun with this. Sometimes this takes a lot of emotional energy for me. So the first time that she wrote it was about her kids building forts out of everything, everywhere. You may have heard that podcast. And my advice was, chill, mom. One day you're going to miss that creativity. You're going to wish that they were doing it right. You need to be thankful that their heads aren't in screens and they're just making and creating stuff. And I encourage this mom to embrace it, to be curious about it, to encourage it. Man, you guys are so creative. How did you build that? I can't wait to see what you build next. I encouraged husband and wife to actually have date night in one of those forts. So this awesome mom just wrote again and said that after making dinner one night, her seven year old son got pouty. He didn't like what she made. So he. He lifts the plate over his head and dumps the food onto the floor. And this mom admitted that she lost her. You know what? As is normal in this situation, moms and dads, please don't think that being calm makes you Gandhi. It's not like, you know what, I love spilled food on the floor. I love everything that my child does. No, that's like, you'd have to drink a lot to have that kind of attitude. That's not being calm. When you're calm, you can be frustrated, you can be furious about things. I'm just not going to lose my, you know what, because then child's in control. It just doesn't work.
- [18:56]
Listener
Right?
- [18:56]
Kirk Martin
So this mom was like, well, what do I do in that situation? So the working title of this podcast has been when you should lose your you know what. But the truth is, while you're certainly justified, you should be livid about this behavior. I don't want you to ever lose it. Because when you lose control of yourself, your child's in control and it's just not good modeling, right? Understandable, but not good modeling. So I began thinking through this and I thought, this is a good example of drawing distinctions between things, right? So let's go through this. So your kids make messes building forts everywhere. Well, that's kind of your issue and you should just embrace it. Your teenage daughter comes home from school and responds a little bit with a little bit of tone because, you know, she broke up with her boyfriend. Well, you can be understanding of that, right? Kid's freaking out, right? Because he doesn't want to go to taekwondo or he messes up his paper airplane. I get the anxiety and disappointment and I give the child tools to deal with his anxiety in that moment.
- [19:59]
Listener
Right.
- [19:59]
Kirk Martin
I get that there are times you get to the root of the issue and you approach it with understanding and with problem solving. But there are times when a behavior is egregious, when it's selfish, when it's disrespectful, and your response should be different. So here's an example with a kid throwing his plate of food over his head onto the floor. I don't want you to lose it because that implies you're out of control.
- [20:23]
Listener
Right?
- [20:23]
Kirk Martin
I'm not going to yell here, but I do want to adopt a more stern tone. So here's what I would actually do. I'd pause for a moment. I give myself time to think and process. Moms and dads, you do not have to react or respond immediately. You don't. In fact, there are times when just getting quiet, maybe even lowering your head and letting the moment sink in, letting the child swim in his or her own actions, can be helpful and illuminating. So don't be afraid to pause and gather your thoughts. Or if I'm mentoring you through our phone consultation, that you can text me in a moment, say, hey, what do I do if I'm not eating dinner or something, I'll text you back.
- [21:10]
Listener
Right?
- [21:11]
Kirk Martin
So here is an example of the tone and words you could use. Just make it authentic to you. And yes, be disappointed. Be stern. Be no nonsense. You can even be angry. That's normal. It's okay. So here's what it may sound like, Jacob, I'm fine with you not liking your clothes, not liking your food, not liking the weather, not liking what movie your sister chose on movie night. But what is never acceptable to me is this kind of reaction from you. Ever. So here's what's happening now. I'm going upstairs to take a shower. When I get back down here, this. This floor is going to be clean. And you are going to clean this by yourself, because you did this. Now, I'm going to set paper towels, a wet cloth in the garbage can out for you. But I want this cleaned up. And I do want an apology. Then we will not ever mention this again. This will not ever happen again. And we will enjoy the rest of our night together. Then I would walk away. I would not give my child a kiss on the head or even a slight smile in this situation. I want them to know that I am angry, that I am disappointed in this behavior. And this does create tension in the air. And that's okay. You're going to have to learn how to live with some separation for a few moments between you and your child. Especially in the teenage years. Look, I remember very distinctly a time when Casey and I were having a disagreement over something he wanted to do with friends. And I stuck with my no. And he got silent. And we were on one of our road trips, and so we were hours and hours and hours together of quietness, right? And there was tension in the air, and it was uncomfortable because I'd worked so hard to rebuild my relationship with him. And I had this fear that my one decision of being too tough would drive him away from me. But I sat in the discomfort and we made it through. Through. But is really hard. Now, here's why I like this approach. And let me repeat this again. For the tone, right? For the words. These aren't exact words, but this is an example. I like giving you scripts. And that's part of what's in the programs that you download to the app is I give you scripts for dozens of situations. Jacob, I'm fine with you not liking your clothes and not liking your food. But what is never acceptable to me is this kind of reaction from you, ever. So here's what's happening now. I'm going upstairs to take a shower. When I get back down here, this floor is going to be clean. And you're going to do it yourself because you did this. Now, I'll set paper towels and wet cloth and a garbage can out for you, but I want this cleaned up. And I do want an apology. Then we will never mention this again. This will never happen again. And we'll enjoy the rest of our night together. Then you walk away. So here's why I like this approach. 1. It provides clarity. There are actions that are understandable and there are actions that are never okay. You're not being mean. You're not making it personal. You're not calling him a disrespectful little jerk who's going to end up in jail.
- [24:20]
Listener
Right.
- [24:20]
Kirk Martin
You're not shaming him. You're drawing a clear distinction that he already knows is wrong. You're drawing a clear boundary, a distinction between what is okay and what is not. And you're letting him know about this, that he already knows this is wrong. And that's important. It's not like your son could or would have ever felt justified throwing his food on the floor. And watch when you respond sweetly or in this understanding way, it's confusing because your child knows this is wrong. He knows it's over the line. And if he doesn't, if he didn't before, now he does, right? So here's what else I like about it. You're not sending him to his room away from you. You are taking a break from the situation. You're also stating clearly what is expected. I expect you to clean this up, and I expect an apology. And knowing that our kids have no clue how to clean up, you even set out the paper towels in a wet cloth in the garbage can. And I think it's important in this situation that you Leave him alone to clean up rather than coming alongside him. See, here's a distinction. If your child had just made a bad choice, if he had been impulsive and he spilled something, then it would be appropriate to come alongside and help him. But this was blatant disrespect, so he needs to live with that. You're also stating this, and this is why I like this formulation. When I come back down, we will never mention this again. See, that reduces or eliminates the shame. It isolates an incident. It deals with it without having to relive it five times and have some long, awkward lecture family talk about how this is disrespectful. He knows it's disrespectful. Please stop with the long lectures. That's why your kid. Look, it's why your kids lie to you. That's why they make up stuff. Or when they're trying to talk to them about that, they run away and they blame someone else. It's because those long kids, girls, boys, son, daughter, we need to have a talk about this because we need you to understand. They already know that there's no way the kid doesn't know that throwing food on the floor isn't egregious and wrong and disrespectful.
- [26:45]
Listener
Right?
- [26:45]
Kirk Martin
And this is also important for my religious friends, right, who are intent on teaching their kids about forgiveness. If you want your kids to grow up and actually believe that God forgives them and doesn't keep bringing things up in their lives, then don't keep bringing up your kids offenses over and over again. Right? It's awful. Now watch what you state, right? You stated, hey, we're never going to mention this again. This will never happen again.
- [27:12]
Listener
Right?
- [27:12]
Kirk Martin
Just to reinforce, hey, we're done. This isn't happening again. I like that. This will never happen again. Five words, not five or 15 minutes of lecturing. And then you end it beautifully and then we are going to enjoy the rest of our night together. See, that's beautiful. I. You dealt with it, right? You cleaned up, you apologized. I know this isn't going to happen again. And now we enjoy our night together. See, that's reconciliation. This is not going to separate you from the. From your child. But in every relationship, there is occasional tension. There's the person who messes up and needs to humble himself and apologize, and then there's a person who needs to forgive. But in between, there's some tension. And that's okay. See, you can be firm and direct. You can be no nonsense, even stern without being mean. Right? And I want you to try that this week. And look, I encourage you with this. While you're driving in the car by yourself, practice this tone. For some of you, it's going to sound so cold and so awkward, but it is so comforting to a strong willed child because it means, it means you're confident. It means you're not doing this long lecture and you're not trying to be too sweet and you're not afraid of their reaction. Right? And it's not creating all this insecurity and it's decisive. I really want you to work on this. It's part of the reason I want you to look. When you get our programs downloaded on this app, you can listen our stuff. It's 30 hours of me giving you dozens of different scripts for different situations. And what I do throughout is model this tone of voice so that it becomes part of you and it becomes much easier. So thank you for listening. I know this is hard stuff, but I want you to dig in. I want you to practice this. If you need more help, let us know, email me. We'll be glad to help. Listen to the programs on that. It'll change your family. It's really cool. If you need help financially with anything else, want to book a live event, email caseyelebratecolm.com we'll be glad to help you. And thanks for sharing this with others. Talk to you soon. Love you all. Bye.