Is Giving Consequences “Threatening” Your Child? Better Ways to Discipline

Summary

Calm Parenting Podcast Episode Summary

Title: Is Giving Consequences “Threatening” Your Child? Better Ways to Discipline
Host: Kirk Martin
Release Date: October 22, 2023

---

Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast, Kirk Martin delves into a pressing question many parents grapple with: "Is giving consequences threatening your child?" Drawing from his extensive experience with over 1,500 challenging children, including those with ADHD, OCD, ODD, and ASD, Kirk offers a nuanced perspective on discipline, emphasizing teaching over punishment.

---

Defining Consequences and Discipline

Kirk Martin begins by clarifying the fundamental difference between consequences and discipline. He asserts that:

“Discipline means to teach... Good discipline over time will lead to a closer, more trusting relationship with your child.”
(Timestamp: 01:20)

He distinguishes discipline as a teaching tool aimed at fostering understanding and growth, rather than merely enforcing rules or penalties.

Are Consequences Threatening?

Addressing the central question, Kirk contends that giving consequences is not inherently threatening to children. He uses relatable analogies to illustrate his point:

“Every day, you're going to have different choices you make, and it leads to either a positive outcome or a negative outcome.”
(Timestamp: 02:00)

He emphasizes that consequences are a natural part of life, present in various authority relationships like law enforcement, employment, and healthcare. For instance, speed limits are not meant to threaten drivers but to ensure public safety.

Practical Examples and Anecdotes

Kirk shares personal anecdotes to demonstrate how consequences function without being threatening:

1. Driving and Speed Limits:

   • He explains how speed limits serve as non-threatening guidelines aimed at safety rather than as threats for punishment.
   • Example Quote:

     “To the police officer pulling me over, he's not threatening me. He's simply keeping the promise given by the state.”
     (Timestamp: 06:10)

2. Employment Consequences:

   • As a general manager, Kirk describes how he handles punctuality. Consequences like lost pay are presented as natural outcomes of actions, not threats.
   • Example Quote:

     “The employee should have the humility to say, I have proven that I am unreliable. Therefore, it makes sense that my employer would not entrust me with future shifts.”
     (Timestamp: 06:37)

3. Sports and Health:

   • Comparing NFL penalties and doctor's advice, Kirk illustrates that consequences are meant to guide behavior towards positive outcomes, not to intimidate.

Alternatives to Consequences

While acknowledging that consequences have their place, Kirk advocates for more effective disciplinary methods, especially for strong-willed children:

1. Role-Playing:

   • Kirk highlights the effectiveness of role-playing in teaching children alternative behaviors.
   • Example Quote:

     “Instead of saying, hey, cut it out, or else, I'm showing them how to do it, right? That's role playing. That's teaching.”
     (Timestamp: 14:30)

2. Creating Successes:

   • He shares strategies to create successful outcomes for children, thereby building their confidence and self-control.
   • Example Quote:

     “I'm beginning to teach him and show him impulse control. So I create a success instead of one more admonishment that gets internalized into I'm a bad kid.”
     (Timestamp: 19:09)

3. Building Connection:

   • Emphasizing the importance of relationships, Kirk explains how genuine connections can transform a child's behavior.
   • Example Quote:

     “Relationships and connection change the human heart. Connection changes behavior and fosters more cooperation.”
     (Timestamp: 19:23)

Building Trust and Relationships

Kirk underscores that effective discipline fosters trust and a stronger parent-child relationship. By avoiding drama and maintaining consistency, parents can create an environment where children feel secure and understood.

“When you discipline this way, you're teaching your child how to succeed in your home and in life. You're providing clarity so your child knows what to expect. And you're being trustworthy and reliable and you're actually empowering your child to succeed with different tools and different choices.”
(Timestamp: 32:49)

Practical Implementation: The 7:27 Rule

Kirk shares a practical example of implementing consequences in his own parenting:

• Setting Clear Expectations:

  • He establishes a specific departure time, 7:27 AM, to instill punctuality in his son, Casey.
  • Example Quote:

    “Be in the car at 7:27. If, however, you are late, here's what is going to happen.”
    (Timestamp: 24:28)

• Consistent Enforcement:

  • For every minute Casey is late, he forfeits 10 minutes of screen time, reinforcing the importance of timeliness without harshness.
  • Example Quote:

    “I do what I said I was going to do. See, that makes me trustworthy and I never make it personal.”
    (Timestamp: 33:34)

• Handling Pushback:

  • When Casey initially reacts negatively, Kirk remains calm, demonstrating restraint and modeling appropriate responses to conflict.
  • Example Quote:

    “I expected him to be upset. He knew it was wrong to say those things. And I'm also mature enough not to take the bait from a frustrated kid and escalate things.”
    (Timestamp: 28:48)

Emphasizing Leadership and Responsibility

Kirk articulates the importance of parental leadership in maintaining household order and guiding children towards responsibility.

“I do set the ground rules. Not as a harsh dictator. Maybe that's where some of you are getting caught up, is that I'm not doing the old school thing.”
(Timestamp: 27:12)

He contrasts modern, compassionate leadership with outdated authoritarian methods, advocating for a balanced approach that combines firmness with empathy.

Conclusion: Empowering Through Trust and Teaching

Kirk Martin concludes by reiterating that while consequences are not inherently threatening, they should not be the primary tool for discipline. Instead, he champions teaching, role-playing, and building strong relationships as more effective means to guide children, especially those who are strong-willed.

“Discipline means to teach. And good discipline will lead to a closer, more trusting relationship with your child.”
(Timestamp: 14:31)

He encourages parents to adopt these strategies to empower their children, fostering environments where trust, clarity, and mutual respect thrive.

---

Notable Quotes

1. On Discipline:

   “Discipline means to teach... Good discipline over time will lead to a closer, more trusting relationship with your child.”
   (01:20)

2. On Consequences Not Being Threatening:

   “Every day, you're going to have different choices you make, and it leads to either a positive outcome or a negative outcome.”
   (02:00)

3. On Role-Playing:

   “That's role playing. That's teaching.”
   (14:30)

4. On Building Trust:

   “When you discipline this way, you're teaching your child how to succeed in your home and in life.”
   (32:49)

5. On Parental Leadership:

   “I do set the ground rules. Not as a harsh dictator.”
   (27:12)

---

Final Thoughts

Kirk Martin's episode offers a refreshing take on discipline, urging parents to move beyond traditional consequence-based methods. By focusing on teaching, building trust, and fostering connections, parents can effectively guide their strong-willed children towards positive behavior and personal growth. This episode is a valuable resource for anyone seeking to enhance their parenting approach with compassion and clarity.

For more strategies and support, visit celebratecalm.com or reach out directly via email at [e-mail].

Transcript

[Kirk Martin]

Hey moms and dads, don't you just.

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[Kirk Martin]

The first question we almost always get from parents is what? What consequence should we give our child to change his or her behavior? And as you've heard me say repeatedly, consequences simply don't work that well with strong willed kids. But I do want to show you how to use them when necessary. I want to show you some alternatives and answer this question we've been hearing a lot. Isn't giving my child a consequence threatening them? So that's what we're going to address on today's episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast. So welcome. This is Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm. You can find [e-mail] if you need help. Reach out to our son, Casey. He gets this because he was always kind of struggling with behavior when he was a little kid, right? It wasn't until I learned how to control my own behavior and my own emotions that he learned how to control his. Kind of interesting, isn't it? But if you need some help, reach out to Casey at C a s e yelebratecalm.com Tell us about your kids, whether their ages, what are you struggling with? We get together as a family, we discuss it, we reply back to you, usually pretty quickly, with some very practical tools to help you, because that's what we do. If you need help with any of our programs, booking, training, just reach out to Casey. Remember, discipline I don't want to forget to say this. Discipline means to teach, right? This literally means to teach. And good discipline over time will lead to a closer, more trusting relationship with your child. So those are our end goals as we dive into this. Right? And if you want a suggested program to listen to in the Calm Parenting podcast, it would be one that's called this. The title is Discipline that Works when Consequences Don't. And you can find that celebrate calm.com. so here's the question. Isn't giving consequences threatening my child? And so I want to address that first, and then we'll discuss the larger issue of whether consequences are effective and what are the alternatives? So my initial response to that question is twofold. 1. Bravo to our little kids who are like attorneys, cops, and judges all rolled into one for turning this around on their parents. Well done. Because you can hear it like you're threatening me. Well done, kids. I know you're trying to manipulate your parents, right? And my second question is, why are you allowing your child to manipulate you into thinking that? Right. These are really smart kids, but I don't want you to give in to that. So let me quickly address this. The answer to your question is no. Giving a consequence is not threatening your child. And I'll demonstrate shortly why it's not my favorite discipline tool, but you should also not be afraid to use it. Why? Because in the course of your everyday life, you are faced with potential consequences from authority figures. Constantly in consequences which are really just Right. It's just you do something and there's either a positive response or. Or a negative response. Right? We don't even have to use the word consequences because that's so loaded with different meanings. But every day, throughout your day, you're going to have different choices you make, and it leads to either a positive outcome or a negative outcome. And it doesn't even always involve authority figures. Right? Just think about this. When you're driving to school or work, on every single road there is a speed limit posted, is the authority figure threatening you with a speeding ticket? No. They simply are saying, we care about public safety. So if you speed, we promise you will pay a hefty fine. And they draw distinctions as well. We also care about the safety of children and construction workers. So if you speed in a school or construction zone, your fine will be doubled.

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

Am I indignant at their threat? No. It's just how life works, right? I just drove over 5,000 miles back and forth from where we live to Florida, Alabama, Mississippi for a work trip. Look, I don't always like authority figures, and sometimes they do things because they're control freaks. But I took my chances going well above the speed limit on the wide open roads in Wyoming, Idaho, Nebraska and parts of Missouri. I knew the consequences and I decided it was worth risking that in these places because I can make up a lot of time there. Right. But I always went the speed limit in school and construction zones, partially because the fine was doubled and partially because I'm not that much of a selfish jerk. Right?

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

If a police officer. Okay, let's say when the police officer pulls me over, thankfully not on this past trip, and says, I clocked you with radar going 12 miles above the speed limit, I'm going to give you a citation and fine for that. What if I said to him, are you threatening me, officer? Now, that would be absurd. He's simply keeping the promise given by the state.

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

Look, Casey is now general manager of a large catering company. When a staff member doesn't show up on time for work routinely, guess what the natural consequence is? That person doesn't get paid for the full shift and doesn't get asked to work at other events. What if that employee marched up to Casey and said, are you threatening me with consequences?

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

You'd hopefully kind of laugh at that and say, well, it's kind of an entitled employee. Right. The employee should have the humility to say, I have proven that I am unreliable. Therefore, it makes sense that my employer would not entrust me with future shifts.

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

Stop blaming this on everybody else. Right. What an employer says is, if you show up for work on time and perform with just basic competence, I promise I will pay you. Or you could say, your consequence is that you get paid. See, there are positive consequences as well. They also say, if you show up early every time and go above and beyond, then your consequence is that you will probably earn more and be given more hours because we can trust you. Look, it's football season. If an NFL linebacker hits the quarterback illegally, that linebacker will cost his team lost yardage.

[Listener]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

With the penalty and face a fine, a possible suspension. Is the NFL commissioner threatening football players with a fine? No. They're saying, we value keeping our quarterback safe because that's how we get higher ratings. So if you do anything that could remotely injure our star players, the consequence for both your team and you individually will be severe and it tends to work. And I'll demonstrate one more just to show the absurdity of this question. What if your doctor said, well, you have high blood pressure in Your family. If you continue to eat fatty foods from bad sources, if you consume a lot of fried foods and don't get any exercise, you will experience negative consequences with your heart, your immune system, and with your health. Health right now, is a patient going to say like, are you threatening me, Doctor? No. He's telling you how life and the human body works. Watch this so you can have clarity and feel empowered to make different choices so that you can be successful with your health and in your life. Think about that when you're very clear, when you keep your promises with no drama. And I'm going to show you how you're providing clarity about expectations in your home. See, when you don't keep your promise, then you're confusing your child. You're also empowering your child when you give him or her tools to make different choices that will lead to a more positive outcome in life.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

The appropriate thing for my son to do in his catering job is to teach these younger people. He's pretty young himself, but to teach them what I taught him, which is, hey, I want to show you how to be successful here. Here's what I value. When you show up on time and I don't have to worry about you, you showing up and when I can trust you with more responsibility, man, I'm going to pay you more and you're going to get, you're going to get more hours. See, he's providing clarity. And when he also says, look, when you don't show up on time, I can't trust you, so I'm not going to schedule you anymore, and that's going to hurt your paycheck. He's providing clarity. He's not threatening them. He's showing them. And it's actually a very loving thing to do of, I want you to be successful in this world. Here's how to do that. I'm showing you, teaching you how to succeed in our home and in the real world.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

It's also empowering because your child has a choice and they can see how that can produce either a positive or a negative outcome. Consequences aren't always negative. They're often very positive.

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

If it helps you feel better and helps your child receive it better. Stop using the word consequence so much because that's a trigger word, right? You just say like, hey, this is how life works. This is how we roll in our home.

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[Kirk Martin]

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[Kirk Martin]

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[Kirk Martin]

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[Kirk Martin]

Now on to more important concepts. So I have said a thousand times, probably thousands of times, the consequences don't work that well with strong willed kids. They simply don't care. And usually consequences don't address the root of the issue, right? Sometimes it might be anxiety, right? And they don't always teach the child a different way to handle the situation. The next time we just take away something for misbehavior which lets them know this is wrong. But they already know what they're doing is wrong, which is why they lie so often. They lie to avoid the consequence, the negative one. But the tragic part is that we associate consequences with discipline. But discipline means to teach. And sending a child to his room or taking away his screens doesn't teach him how to make a different choice next time. You're merely trying to persuade him to do it differently so he doesn't do. So he doesn't lose something he likes.

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

That's not the greatest motivation, Right. It's kind of like saying, well, if you don't do this, you go to hell. Well, that completely negates the idea of a relationship and actually wanting to be with someone.

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

Instead we're saying, like, here's a harsh consequence. Well, that's right. That. That hasn't worked all that well either.

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

So consequences have limited value and effectiveness. There are better ways to discipline. See, you can actually teach and show your child a different way. One of my favorite things to do with younger kids is to role play situations, which in itself is kind of a brutal punishment, right? Because nobody wants to role play, but it's extremely effective. Very quickly, I wasn't going to do this, but this is off our discipline that works program, right? With little kids, they mess up. They walk into a room, they mess up, I say, hey, two options here. She wants a negative consequence. Or we can rewind and replay. And what happens is younger child has to rewind, which means they walk backwardly, backward, backwardly. They work backwards right out of the room, which is kind of fun for a little kid. They work backwards. And then I role play and show them. Here is a different way to handle that situation. With our little kids, we had so many kids. We had 1500 kids come in our home and they would, almost every day they would mess up something, right? And I'd hear them come in, come into the room and they take someone else's Legos. And obviously that didn't work well for them. So I said, okay, so here's what we're going to do. We're going to practice this. I'm going to be building with Legos on the floor. Here's how I want you to do it. Instead of coming in and grabbing my Legos, right? Instead, come sit down next to me. Sitting next to people doesn't provoke a defensive response. And you could say, hey, your Legos are really cool. Could we play with them together or could I use some of them myself? I want to build an airport or do you want to build something with me? And I'd physically have them do and say that. So instead of saying, hey, cut it out, or else, I'm showing them how to do it, right? That's role playing. That's teaching. So whenever I hear from parents that their kids are always in trouble or they're on red on the behavior chart at school, that means we're failing that child, right? If your kid's always on red on the behavior chart, by the way, I've done a podcast on that recently, and I hope you will look that one up to help teachers in school. But those red, yellow, and green behavior charts don't work because your child begins to internalize. I'm never getting to green, and if I'm going to be on red anyway, I may as well double down and make it a really bad day. It just reinforces failure, right? So we're actually setting our kids up for failure, right? Because we know this child, this student, your child struggles in a certain area, and yet we simply say, don't do that or else, right? Then we act mystified when the child's behavior doesn't change. But what if instead of punishing a child continually for failing, because that's what we're doing, if you keep doing this thing wrong, you get a punishment? What if instead of punishing a child for failure, we actually gave the child tools to succeed? We proactively came along and said, I know this child struggles with blurting out, or he struggles to sit still in his seat for 45 minutes. Or what if we showed the child how to succeed in different situations, Right? And I pulled that child aside, I said, man, I could really use your help, man, when I'm teaching, my mouth gets really dry and I know you need to move a little bit. Why? Because you got a lot of energy. And that energy is going to serve you well in life, right? It's going to serve you well in life, my friend. But in our class, you're going to have to sit. But here's what we're going to do. I need some help. I need you to refill my water bottle. So you and I are going to have a secret signal. When I touch my ear like this, when I give you a certain look, I want you to get up out of your seat. You go, water bottle, take to the back of the room. You refill it, you bring it back up, sit on my desk, man, that would really help me out. You up for that? And now I begin to give that child an opportunity to do a specific job helping me. It only takes him 23 seconds to do it. It's specific and concrete. And at the end of that 23 seconds, when he sits that bottle down on my desk, I could say, hey, nice job. Thank you. I just created a success and I can start teaching that child. Hey. This week, really good helper, my friend. This next week, I believe you're capable of sitting for 29 minutes in my class before you get the secret signal.

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

I'm beginning to teach him and show him impulse control. So I create a success instead of one more admonishment that gets internalized into I'm a bad kid.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

The other thing we say over and over again is relationships and connection change the human heart. Connection changes behavior and fosters more cooperation.

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

Humility breaks down walls and leads to contrition instead of a forced apology.

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

For those of you who are people of faith, it is the goodness of God that leads people to change their trajectory in life, not the threat of punishment. And I don't know why it's so hard for us to throw off that medieval mindset of prisons and torturing people in dungeons. It didn't work in 1542 and it doesn't work in 2023. So that's. Look, I'm going to show you how to do consequence in a minute, okay? I'd rather do all these other things first. But that said, consequences are necessary to let a child and an adult know there are boundaries. I don't like speed limits. I'm 57. I'm pretty aware of what an appropriate speed limit is in a different zone based on 40 years of driving. That said, there are boundaries on how fast I can go, except out west. So while giving consequences is not my preferred go to, sometimes they're necessary. And there's nothing wrong with that. Now, when I do give consequences, I'll just be honest. Mine are meaningful. I don't mess around. I don't do them often. I did not do a lot of consequences with Casey, but when I did them, I. I didn't mess around. They were meaningful. When I do give consequences, I'm not angry. I'm not harsh. I'm not making it personal.

[Listener]

You know, you never listen if you.

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

I don't do shame. You know, if you would learn to.

[Listener]

Listen better, if you would have done.

[Kirk Martin]

What I said, you wouldn't be losing this. All those things. I don't have to go there. I'm simply letting you know this is a huge, important boundary. That you should recognize and respect for your own good. And as in real life, when you ignore important boundaries, the natural consequences can be pretty severe. So I just want you to know that I'll use this example. It's maybe not even the best example, but it popped into my head and I like it. So it was leaving for school on time, right? Because there was a period of time where I dropped Casey off at school, then I would go to my corporate job, and if he was late, that had a huge impact on my day. And look, for many of you, that. That's reality, right? You got to get to work. And you can't always be like, well, I know my child struggles like this, and so it's okay if he's late. No, it's not okay if he's late. This is important. So I instituted this at one point. So, Case, from now on, here's how it works. We will leave at exactly 7:27 every morning. I always use the interesting time limits because it sticks in the child's brain a little bit and it says this is specific and meaningful. Okay? So we leave at 7:27 every morning. I only have one goal for you every morning, Case. Be in that car at 7:27. I don't care what you look like. I don't care what you smell like. I don't care what's in your stomach, Right? If you want to sleep in the clothes you're going to wear to school the next day, I don't care. It's brilliant. Sleep until 7:26. Grab that pop Tart you hit under your bed because I knew you hoard food up there. You can roll half asleep into my car at 7:27. You need to leave your shoes in here the night before. I don't care if it's motivating. I'll hide your breakfast in the backyard and you can forage for it in the morning. I don't care. See, Little side note, I'm giving my child tools to get ready in the morning. Trying to create a success, right? For some of your younger kids, it's. I did a whole podcast on morning routine on this. It's creating that treasure hunt in the morning to get them out of bed. It's having connection with my son in the morning of listening to a certain type of music that he loves. If he's ready on time, there's connection. And I'm also giving him ownership over how he gets ready. See, there are tools. It's not just, you know what?

[Listener]

I leave at 7:27. If you're not ready.

[Kirk Martin]

There's going to be heck to pay for that.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

I'm not just saying that I'm giving tools in addition to that, but this is part of it. And so here's what it is. Be in the car at 7:27. If, however, you are late, here's what is going to happen. See, I'm avoiding using the word. Here's the consequence. Here's what's going to happen for every minute you choose to be late. Important language there, because he's choosing to be late. He is choosing that right now. I know. So you're not triggered. I know that many of our kids with ADHD and other issues, it's not always just a choice. It's that they do struggle with time management. They do struggle, and that's why I'm giving them lots of tools.

[Casey Martin]

Okay?

[Kirk Martin]

But for every minute you're late, that is a minute you have stolen from my day. And my time is important. So you will have chosen to forfeit 10 minutes of your screen time that night. So basically, every minute you're late, you forfeit 10 minutes of screen times.

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

At times, I use this language. If you choose to be late, I promise you will lose 10 minutes of your screen time. Because I like the word promises. So his response was obvious. Well, that's not fair. And my response was equally obvious. I don't play fair. I play to win. And my time is more important to yours because it was. Look, I know this is going to rub some of you the wrong way, but stop acting like your kids, like everything is equal, right? That you're just equal. Look, your kids are deserving of an equal amount of dignity and respect and kindness, but they don't treat them as equal to me in every way. I am the leader, and I do have more wisdom, and I do have more responsibility. So I do set the ground rules. And in our society, sometimes we're breaking that down where it's all equal. You know, if you've listened to our podcast, I do a lot of problem solving with kids. I listen, I'm curious. I try to find out what's going on. And I try to be compassionate and patient and understanding and give them tools. But if you do not have certain ground rules and you do not take a leadership position in your home, that child is going to feel rudderless. Like, who's running the home? Listen, I have no problem saying I'm the leader in the home. My wife and I are leaders in the home. Why? We have more wisdom, and we have More responsibility. So I do set the ground rules. Not as a harsh dictator. Maybe that's where some of you are getting caught up, is that I'm not doing the old school thing. I hate that. Things like, well, this is a dictatorship. Well, I've been to former communist countries and countries where they had dictatorships. Guess what? It didn't work all that well. So I don't walk around with that old school.

[Listener]

Well, I'm the dad in the home.

[Kirk Martin]

I'm the dictator. No, that's just. That's just immature, right? I don't think God, for those who are religious, walks around. Well, God created the universe. I'm the dictator. I think what draws people to God is the humility that is expressed.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

It is the patience and the compassion.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

I have no problem being the authority figure in my home. It's just that my concept of what a good authority figure has changed from what I learned from my dad. Which was the my way or the highway fear and intimidation to no, I lead with humility and compassion.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

But think about this as a wise guardian of our family's life, right? I do have boundaries. I do have very clear expectations. And, and I don't mean this to sound flippant, but if you're not comfortable with that role, then please don't be a parent because it is not fair and it is not kind to kids to not let them know about guardrails in life. So the first morning after this, he rolled into the car at 7:30. I held up my phone to show him the time. It was three minutes late. And here's what he said. Seriously dad, I'm only three minutes late. That's good for me. And I said, well, that's progress, son, but you just chose to lose 30 minutes of your screen time tonight. And what was his response? Dad, thank you for being consistent, following through so I can count on you. It makes me feel safe as a child. Yeah, that's not what he said. Of course not. He went right for the jugular because that's who my strong willed son is.

[Listener]

This is stupidest thing I've ever heard of. You're supposed to be a parenting expert. Why would anybody listen to you or buy your stupid programs?

[Kirk Martin]

Yeah, he was awesome like that. So guess what? The car ride to school that day, not so pleasant. When we got to a school, did he hug me or tell me to have a good day? No. He slammed the door and stomped off, knowing that was a big trigger of mine. And then I couldn't react because the headmaster Was right out in the carpool line and I was supposed to be the calm guy. So look, the truth is, I didn't react on the entire car ride. Did I have a right to react when he was saying disrespectful things to me? Of course I had the right to. But I also know this. He wasn't mad at me. He was mad at himself. And part of what I wanted to do was show him how to be responsible and successful at this, not beat him up or have himself beat himself up. And here's the other point. I'm also a grown adult. He's a kid. He's venting because he was held accountable. So I expected him to be upset. He knew it was wrong to say those things. And I'm also mature enough not to take the bait from a frustrated kid and escalate things. So stop taking everything so personally, right? And chill a little bit. So that night, I get home, I remind him with a concise, even language, hey, just wanted to remind you, turn off your screens 30 minutes early. And I walked out of his room. Why? So I didn't have to hear his grumbling so loud. And for him saying, seriously, seriously, you know how your kids say that in a disrespectful way? Makes you want to twist their mouth off their face. Right? Seriously. By the way, quick side note. So Casey owns his own home now. And so when he was a kid, his room was a disaster. He was not that neat and clean. If you come to Casey's house, guess what you have to do. You have to take off your shoes when you enter his house. Why? Because he doesn't want dirt tracked in. Why does he care about now? Because he owns his own home. And ownership is a big deal for strong willed kids. So the first time he told me that, dad, you got to take off your shoes, you know what I said? Seriously? Seriously. In the same tone. Why? Because he's a grown kid now. He's a young man and we have fun with it. But it's kind of fun anyway. So my son got the point. He got the point. Later that night, I walked in and I asked him about something he was interested in. Why? Because that's connection.

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

And I offered another tool for the morning.

[Casey Martin]

Right.

[Kirk Martin]

Totally up to you. But if you want to load up your stuff in the car tonight, it might help you in the morning. And we actually discussed some different ways to get ready more quickly in the morning. So we ended the night bonding over something he enjoyed. We ended up problem solving instead of it just being ending the night.

[Listener]

You know what kid? Remember 7:27 tomorrow morning, if you're not ready on time, you're going to lose.

[Kirk Martin]

Right? So pretty quickly he learned this. The 727 rule was just set in stone. He learned that I keep my promises and he can count on me to keep my word without drama, without lectures, without making it a huge deal, without making it worse. And I think for some of you that's the huge key is not talking so much, not lecturing. When I discipline, it's short and sweet. There's no drama. I'm not making it into a bigger deal than it needs to be. I'm not projecting into the future.

[Listener]

You know what? If you can't learn how to be on time in the morning when you're 7 or 9 or 12, you're never.

[Kirk Martin]

Going to be able to keep a job. Stop all that stuff, right? If you listen to that Discipline that works program, you're going to get this main point and it's this. When using this tool for discipline, that is consequences, right? You are teaching your child a couple valuable things. I simply do what I said I was going to do. See, that makes me trustworthy and I never make it personal. I'm not angry or mad. I'm just very clear. And I changed the language, right? The traditional thing is like you need to enforce consequences to. I'm just keeping my promises to you. See, I promised you if this happened.

[Fast Growing Trees Ad]

This would be the result.

[Kirk Martin]

And I promise if you handle it this way, this would be the result.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

So you're keeping a promise you made to your child. See, it's the kind thing to do. It's the trustworthy thing to do. And when you discipline this way, you're teaching your child how to succeed in your home and in life. You're providing clarity so your child knows what to expect. And you're being trustworthy and reliable and you're actually empowering your child to succeed with different tools and different choices. But know the consequences are not usually the most effective tool. I'd rather give my child tools to turn off their video games on time.

[Casey Martin]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

I'd actually practice teaching self control in different ways. See, that's true discipline because you're actually teaching. And discipline means to teach. And good discipline will lead to to a closer, more trusting relationship with your child. Remember, those are our end goals. So no, consequences are not threatening your child. Don't allow yourself to be manipulated by your kids. And please do remember, the consequences are not the most effective or the only tool. I do prefer teaching role playing, creating successes, and connecting over consequences. Go through as you go through the calm parenting program and you get it right on this easy to listen to app that you can share with your spouse. I don't care. You can share it with teachers, right? That would be very helpful too. As you do that, you're going to learn so many different tools that go beyond the traditional approach that actually work with the strong willed child. If you need help with that, reach out to [e-mail] he'll help you out. If you need to find out financially or just go to the website, get the Get Everything package because then you have everything that we've ever created. It will change your family. So thank you for listening. Thanks for sharing the podcast. Hope to talk to you soon. Bye.