← Calm Parenting Podcast
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- [00:01]
Kirk Martin
Hey moms and dads, don't you just.
- [00:03]
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- [01:21]
Kirk Martin
Do you have a child that lies? Who even when you see them you have proof on a camera that they did something wrong, they still will refuse to admit that they did it. They won accept responsibility for their actions. They won't admit that they're wrong. Or maybe you have a child who's unmotivated, a 10, 11, 12, 14, 16 year old child. They're just not motivated to do anything and you can't take anything away because you already took everything away from them when they were like seven, right? And they don't care about consequences. So what do you do? We're going to talk about that. What about defiant kids who want to do their things their own way? Or maybe you're a grandparent because we're dealing a lot with grandparents who are actually taking care of have primary responsibility of their grandkids and that's tough, right? What about kids whose moods bring the whole family down? Or maybe you have a husband who can't control himself or kids who can't handle disappointment. That's what we're going to talk about on today's bonus episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast. So welcome. This is Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm. You can find us@celebratecalm.com if you need help with anything. Reach out to our son Casey C A s e y celebratecoln.com he gets this because he pretty Much struggled with all of these things and he had a father who couldn't control himself at one point. So this is the part two of me answering like 140 questions that parents pose to me on our Facebook page, our Celebrate Calm Facebook page. I'm trying to go through all of them and it may take me the rest of the year, but I will get through it all. I'm really working on this because I want to honor the questions that are asked because I know know it's really hard being a parent of one of these kids. So again, this is different than our kind of regular, like 10, 12, 15 minute podcast on one topic. I'm going to try to cover a lot of ground here, and my caveat is that I've got to roll through things pretty quickly. So I apologize in advance if I say things inappropriately. If sometimes I use a little bit of humor and maybe you don't like it, or maybe I'm just totally inappropriate, I apologize. But just roll with me here because there's a lot of good insight and I would encourage you. This is some old guy wisdom. Even if someone irritates you a little bit, learn something from that person. I've learned as I've gotten older to try to learn something from people that I disagree with. So even if you find me annoying, there's some really good insight in here that will actually help you with your kids. So you can hate me, but love the insight. So anyway, so here's Amanda asked about this. And it's not just Amanda. There were a lot of questions about this, about K who just blatantly lie. And you will see them doing something wrong. You can have them on videotape, right? And they'll claim that it was someone being an imposter of them. They won't admit it when you call them out on it, right? Then they start screaming and yelling. And this mom, kudos to you. Said, I think she's embarrassed. Bingo. That's a big one. Right down the word shame. A lot of our kids have a lot of shame inside, right? And so there's simple things of like, look, we're not judging you. Just like, could you put your plate in the sink? And the daughter will say, like I did. And like everybody in the family staring at the plate on the table, it's clearly not in the sink, but she'll double down on that. And so mom was like, well, do I push for her to admit that her plate has not been put in a sink?
- [04:47]
Casey Martin
Right.
- [04:48]
Kirk Martin
Do I let it go and hope the Phase passes because right if I don't, if I say something, there's a big tantrum and she's yelling and if I don't say anything, well, she just got away with lying and not putting her plate in the sink. So there are a lot of different ways to look at this one and there's some good insight in here. So let me just roll with this. Look, here's, this is related to this and it's related to a lot of other things that we do with our kids. Like it's the parent who goes up like, hey, did you get your homework done? And then there's this like violent outburst and you're like, I'm just asking if your homework was done. But I want you to think about it from the standpoint of what's going on inside the head and heart of your strong willed child. And these kids often feel like failures. They feel like nothing they do can ever please anyone. They don't feel like they fit in. They're just, you know what, they're just not good at being kids sometimes. And simple things that should just be simple and easy, it's not that hard, right? Are just hard for them or they just don't want to do it. And they make, and I get it, they make their own lives harder at times. But sometimes our kids, when they're reminded to do something right, this is what they hear. Why didn't you do that? Your siblings don't have a problem with that. Everybody else in this family does it. Why didn't you? You're a failure. Now I'm not saying this is right, it just is. And if that's what they're hearing, this isn't really a lying issue. And I've said this many times, your kids don't have integrity issues really. They have shame issues. They have helpless issues at times where they feel helpless to do things the right way. And so they just nigh it, don't do it right. And so the lie to get away, try to get away with it because they're not mature enough to say, you know what, I just feel helpless. I feel like a failure. So therefore I'm going to have a big meltdown, right? So just know that going in. So here are a few things that I would try. One is let's go with non verbals with many of your strong will kids. Look, I have no other way to say this except that most of us as parents just talk way too much and you go on and on and on and on and you lecture too much and it just doesn't work. It provokes a negative response. And so look, we don't do blame or guilt, but I do have to be, I want to be blunt as I get older with us to free us from things. You have to stop that, right? Because look, if you, you already know that. If you know that going on and on and talking too much is provoking your child to anger and if you keep doing it and then you email me like, well, I can't believe he's getting angry all the time, like, well, you already know that you're provoking that. So cut it out. You've got to work on that yourself because look, it's not. I don't really care about kids behavior that much. I don't. I care about the relationship because if the relationship is good, if you understand these kids, the behavior will come along and we'll be just fine. It won't be an issue.
- [07:46]
Casey Martin
Right.
- [07:46]
Kirk Martin
And so I don't want you hurting your relationship with your child. So non verbals are really nice with these kids even beforehand. Think about this. Have a predetermined responsibility for your daughter. And I have in parentheses, not a task, right? Chores. Right. If you say like you have a chore to do, it's like, right, but and I'd rather than having kids just obey doing chores, I'd rather have them be responsible for something. So what can your daughter be in control of? I don't want to give her control of my home. I don't give kids control of my home. Kate's never had control of our home. But I did give him certain activities that he felt in control of and that he felt in control of himself when he was doing it. What does your daughter do? Well, and maybe we shift her responsibility from an arbitrary chore.
- [08:43]
Casey Martin
Right.
- [08:44]
Kirk Martin
To something maybe that she's really good at that's even a responsibility. See, I'd rather have a responsible child than just an obedient child who does things everybody else wants him or her to do. I hope that makes sense. Another thing I go with huge. Oh, by the way with the nonverbals for older kids. Yes. I love writing notes to kids because then you're not in their face and they're not having to listen to your annoying voice and you're not going to have to look at their annoying face with their annoying rolling their eyes.
- [09:16]
Casey Martin
Right.
- [09:17]
Kirk Martin
You write something to them, they can process it without you standing over them. So huge dose of creating successes. Your kids who are lying a lot, my gut would tell me, or experience Tells me they don't feel good about themselves because from the time they came out of the womb, they were in trouble. Because all we measure with our kids is good behavior and good grades. And many of your kids are over 2 in life on that. They're like, well, I'm pretty much a failure as a kid, so I think I'll just shut down or I'll just do it opposite of the way that you want. So I'd rather find other ways for your daughter to be responsible, put her in situations in which she excels so that more times during the day you're saying, hey, that was a good job, honey. Hey, really well done, man. I never thought to do it that way. I want to spend a lot of time with kids of any kind, but especially strong will kids affirming what they're already good at doing instead of putting them in situations. But this is up to you how you do it. But this is what I know. After working with a million families, most of your kids are going to struggle with certain things, one of them being arbitrary chores. And you can fight for 10 years, 18 years doing this, or you can say, you know what, it's just not working. Why don't we instead, instead of asking my child to do something that they're not naturally good at doing, by the way, I've used this analogy. What if you were at a job where you just weren't particularly well suited, your gifts and passions were not well suited to that job description, and your boss was continually asking you to do things that you're not good at doing, you would feel like a failure and your boss would constantly say, why can't you ever do things right? I gave you that job. Why does it take you so long? Why are you procrastinating? But if you get a job that pretty much capitalizes on your natural gifts, well, then it's not even that much work because you're just good at it. And everybody's like, man, you did a great job on that project, man, we can really rely on you, so why not do that in the home, right? Each of your kids has different natural giftings, so put them in their unique places within your hierarchy of your home to do different jobs and responsibilities instead of trying to force the strong willed child to be like all the other kids, which they will never be like your other kids. So stop trying to do it because you're just going to be frustrated, they're going to be frustrated and then the relationship gets around, right? Here's another insight here. Your kids don't like being watched, right? There's a severe response to that. I remember I used to work at America Online way back in the day, right. When it's an annoying company with all the little discs and everything that they would send you. And at one time my boss moved me so that my cubicle was right in front of his office. That was the day I started working on my resume. And I bought a ficus plant and I put it up with Christmas lights so my boss couldn't see me in the cubicle. I don't like to be watched. This is a huge insight for your kids. And I was, it was funny. I was hiking the other day because I'm trying to keep up with Casey because he's got really long legs and he's a lot younger than I am. And so I'm trying to keep up so I can hike with him. And I'm hiking up this mountain and I meet this couple and they were from Ohio and stuff, so they didn't know how to handle the snow and all that stuff. And so we're going up this snowy incline and this is like late June. And the husband kept looking back at his wife because I had held up. I stayed so I could kind of lead them up there because it was just whatever, otherwise they were going to die. I'm kidding. But so he kept looking back at his wife. Hey, honey, are you okay? How are you doing? And she finally said, if you ask me one more time if I'm okay. And so I told the dude. I was like, dude, here's what I've learned in life. People don't like to be watched when they're struggling. So let's just walk up ahead. So he and I walked up ahead and it was funny as we were walking through the snow, he said, you're such a good guy. It's like you're so calm. And I didn't tell him like that that's the name of our organization. It was just kind of fun. So the insight is though, people don't like to be watched, right? And so when you get into meltdowns, that's why we like motion changes emotion using some kind of movement. Because when a kid's melting down, when you're melting down, nobody likes to be watched. Okay, second question. See how long this gets. This may be a three hour one. So getting. This is related. Getting a seven year old to admit that he's wrong or made a mistake in the first place. Right. Even when I emphasize nobody's in trouble.
- [13:52]
Casey Martin
Right.
- [13:52]
Kirk Martin
All Those different things. Look, here's my initial reaction to him, is that I don't want to stop trying to get your kid to admit it. Right? You think about this. And some of these. I'm answering the question, and it may not always be directly with that. It may relate to something else, but just use that as a jumping off point. Sometimes we set our kids up for failure and it's like we do a gotcha thing. You already know that he didn't do it, so why do you keep asking, hey, did you wash your hands? Well, you know, he didn't wash his hands. And so in some ways, you're putting that child. You're setting him up. It's entrapment, Right. You know he's going to lie about that, right? So you already did that. So I wouldn't try to get your kids to admit things. Right? That's part of that philosophy of, like, micromanaging your kids and making sure. Because if he doesn't admit that he does it. I get what you're thinking there, but chill with some of that. Okay? So, you know, mom went on to say, like, hey, when we call him out on most of his stuff, right? I wouldn't. Look, I've learned this as I've gotten older, calling people out on their stuff when you. I know that's just how you phrased it, but people generally don't respond well to that.
- [15:13]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [15:13]
Kirk Martin
Now, going to someone and say, hey, I think you're doing something that's hurting you.
- [15:18]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [15:18]
Kirk Martin
Like that would be my approach. It should be my approach with you, which is, look, you're doing this thing which is hurting you, which is you're lecturing your kids all the time, or you're assuming the worst about their motives. And I know you have the best of intentions, right? Because you love your kids and you want them to grow to be honest and have integrity and be responsible, but inadvertently, you're hurting your relationship with your kids. Right? That's the tone, instead of me just calling you out on your stuff all day long, right? So look, it's the same answer basically as the last one, which is, let's create successes and let's change the internal dialogue within your kids. So instead of, yeah, I'm not good at doing that. So I'm always in trouble. Everybody, mom and dad are always upset at me, and I'm the one person in the house who loses the screens all the time because I didn't bring my plate back from dinner from the dinner table. Switch it around. Create successes, find things they're good at doing and change. Help change their internal dialogue.
- [16:21]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [16:21]
Kirk Martin
And now here was the other thing. Usually takes a few minutes. So here's the thing. I'm trying not to send him to his room for not putting away his plate. Please don't do that. He just didn't put away his plate. Trust me, moms and dads, it's not that big a deal. It's not that big a deal. Okay, so I know what your intentions are like. But if he doesn't learn how to put away his plate one day, he's not. It's not true. He's just a little kid. He just doesn't care right now.
- [16:48]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [16:49]
Kirk Martin
So it usually takes a few minutes of arguing.
- [16:53]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [16:54]
Kirk Martin
Over like.
- [16:55]
Casey Martin
Right.
- [16:56]
Kirk Martin
I make an effort not to argue and simply say, please clean it up. He spends multiple minutes trying to argue. Like asking, why do you always make me clean up messes I didn't make. Look, I don't argue with kids. It's just this. It's like because, right? It's like, why do you make me do that? Because I'm mean, that's why. Look, I don't need you. Here's a great phrase. I don't need you to like it. I don't expect you to like it. I don't need you to like putting away your stuff. Just expect you to get it done.
- [17:21]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [17:21]
Kirk Martin
Don't feed in to the drama. But let's change the internal dialogue. That's my main point there. Change the internal dialogue by creating successes, helping kids be responsible, not just complete arbitrary tasks. Okay, here's another one that's kind of similar. Right? And I get the point. I'm having a hard time with my. This is a five year old, but this could be a four year old, it could be a seven, could be a ten year old.
- [17:46]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [17:46]
Kirk Martin
He has a tendency to argue over simple things that are non negotiable, like being respectful and using manners. He'll become agitated when I prompt him to thank someone after a kind gesture. He'll moan or express that he doesn't want to.
- [18:03]
Casey Martin
Right.
- [18:04]
Kirk Martin
Or he'll say, I can't be nice all the time.
- [18:07]
Casey Martin
Right.
- [18:07]
Kirk Martin
His younger brother, who is 3, doesn't have the same reaction when it comes to using basic manners. Is there a different approach? Yes, here's my different approach. Stop prompting him to thank people. It's annoying, right? I mean this. And I know your intentions are perfectly great. You want your child to grow up and be a respectful young man who says thank you and please so here's my advice. Live out your life. Model for him. When someone does nice something nice for you, just say, hey, thank you. That was really thoughtful. I appreciate it. But prompting him. It's like the shy kids. Come here, honey. Say hi to Mrs. Henderson. Say hi to Mrs. Henderson. Well, they're just a shy kid. And parents will be like, well, she's just being disrespectful. No, she's not. She's just a shy kid who doesn't like all the attention. And this will be a weird dynamic for you because these are kids who absorb most of the attention in the family, but they also don't like all the attention.
- [19:07]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [19:07]
Kirk Martin
And so when some stranger comes up or someone does something nice, you're like, honey, say thank you. Say thank you. My honest opinion is, that's annoying. So cut it out. You know I'm bad. Look, I'm trying to be have fun with this, but also tell you in a very direct way. I promise you, mom, who asked this, your kids will grow up and be respectful to other adults if they see you being respectful in your life. You have a DNA in your home. If you grow up in a home, raise your kids in a home where you're not watching Jerry Springer for three hours a day, and you read books and you get out and you explore and you're curious, your kids will eventually grow up and be like that. If. Right. Like, they're gonna he. They're gonna know. But stop prompting. It's embarrassing. They might be shy. Let them do it on their own. Oh, here's another insight. Your kids will do the right thing when you're not watching them. He just doesn't want to do it in front of you. So live your life and model. That is why we often say with strong will, kids, your praise should be short and sweet. Don't say, oh, buddy, I'm so proud of you. You did such a good job. It sounds fake. It sounds condescending. It sounds like this. We never thought you'd actually make a good choice, and you just did. So we're going to make a big deal of it. And your kids reject your praise because sometimes it feels like pressure. Because what it feels like is, oh, now you're going to expect me to do that more often, and I'm not sure that I can actually do that. So don't put that on me. So when I praise kids, it is short. Hey, nice job with that. Like how you handled that. Honey, I heard how you talked to Mrs. Henderson. That was awesome. Shows me you're growing up and then you walk away. You change the topic with teenagers too. You just you're planting a lot of seeds. So mom, you're a good mom, teaching your kids the right thing. But stop prompting him to say things unless you want arguments and fights for the rest of his childhood.
- [21:06]
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- [22:24]
Kirk Martin
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- [22:26]
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- [22:31]
Kirk Martin
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Kirk Martin
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Kirk Martin
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Kirk Martin
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- [23:37]
Kirk Martin
Here's a tough one. So I'm going to expand this beyond what the mom had asked, but I'd say there are parents out there who have ptsd. There are parents who have gone through, you were going through chemo treatment who have various illnesses, right, that are just debilitating. And so, you know, you may have heard me say, like, hey, we want to get to that place where I don't need my child to behave just so that I can behave. Right? That was my thing as a dad is Casey, I need you to do exactly what I told you to do. Because if you don't behave and do exactly what I tell you to do, I'm not sure I can behave and I'm going to get angry and you don't want to see that, right? Well, this mom wrote in and said, look, I actually do need my kids to behave because I don't have the strength to keep going back up and down stairs. Check whether they've done things right. I don't have that. So here are a few tips that I hope you find helpful. Number one, no long lectures. Let's go with more blunt, direct talk with kids. These are strong willed kids. They're 4 going on 24, there's 7 going on 37, they're 14 going on 54. Or some of your kids are like old souls, like 74. Blunt, direct talk. Hey, this is what I'm expecting, this is what I expect and this is what I want done. Stop couching. You know what, it would really help me out. None of that. Be assertive. Moms, especially out there, be assertive about what you need. I have no problems with saying, look guys, I'm sick, I'm going through something. This is what I need right now from you. Be assertive about it. You don't have to do a long thing like, you know guys, when you're not feeling well. I do not that tone. You're not trying to convince them, you're not trying to guilt them into. You know, when you guys are sick, I take care of you. No, it's this, it's a simple matter of fact thing, guys. I don't feel well. You know what, I used to do this at the camps. So back in the day, we started with this, we'd have 8, 10, 12, 15 kids in our home. And why we want them to come to our home is that when kids go to traditional therapy, they either don't talk or they say I don't know, or they tell the therapist what the therapist wants to hear just so they can be done with it. So we wanted kids out of a therapeutic setting into a real life situation in a House where we took them to stores, where we disappointed them on purpose, where things didn't go well, where they didn't get to eat what they wanted to have for lunch, where other kids took their stuff and they got in fights. So we had all these kids in our home. I don't like a lot of loud noises. It was hard. And so there were certain days where I didn't feel well. And what I learned, instead of getting resentful, you know, guys, every day I try to make this fun and I take you to the pool and I do all these things. I started saying this, hey guys, I just don't feel well today. So I need you guys to step up and take more responsibility because I just don't have it today. And when I said it like that, it's like they respected it because I wasn't trying to manipulate them. I wasn't asking for a favor, I was talking honestly and they knew that. So I'd encourage you to try that. For those of you who are overwhelmed, scale down and simplify. Cut out some of the extracurricular activities. Cut out some of the expectations you have on yourself.
- [26:48]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [26:48]
Kirk Martin
Like every night I need to have an organic homemade meal for my kids. Look, I love that that's your goal, but you can't do it every night. You can't. So simplify, scale things down. Look, if you have a strong willed child, you have to scale things down so that you free up like two hours every afternoon or evening for some kind of meltdown or something to happen. Stop over scheduling things and living like on this narrow edge of life, needing everything to go just right. You have kids, they're going to mess things up. Their job is to mess up your agenda, right? They're going to. It's just the way that it works. They're not adults. You're not running a corporation with 40 year old adults making a lot of money. You have a family with flawed, imperfect people where things just go wrong and people have awful moods sometimes. So know that that's normal and just simplify, right? I would live, look part of as I get older, just live with reality. This is your life right now. So scale back. This is. Focus on the stuff. I would also say, I don't know what your spousal situation is, but your spouse has to step up. You've got like, hey, hubby, listen, I'm dealing with some issues right now. I need you to step up. I need your help. Could you do X and Y? I'm going to do this in a minute. For helping with husbands. But hubbies tend to do better when you give them very specific missions to do. They're basically like the strong will kids. You set them up for success, you let them do something they're good at in the home. You give them a very specific mission to do when they do well, you say, now that was helpful, right? And I'll give you this one that most of you will not do. Ask for help. Find a friend, right? And ask them for help. Find an older lady in your neighborhood, your church, synagogue, mosque, and ask them and say, look, I've got three kids and I'm really struggling because I'm sick. Do you think you could come help me a couple times a day? Do you think that one of my kids could come down to your house and bake cookies or do something or you could do homework with them? I guarantee I mentioned this last time. Older people love helping out. It makes them feel helpful. It makes them feel like they're using the wisdom that they have gained all those years. Moms don't like asking for help because you're all independent, you think you do everything. And some of you, well, I don't want to bother people. Well, why don't you value yourself? Why don't you think that you're worthy of having other people help you? I don't say that with a guilt thing. I want to challenge you because you do everything for everybody else. But you don't treat yourself the way you treat other people.
- [29:27]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [29:28]
Kirk Martin
That's a way you can kind of flip that thing around. Treat other people, right. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Well, mom, sometimes do unto yourself as you would do to other people because you give to everybody else, but you won't allow anybody else to give back to you. Now if you want to do phone consultations, we can dig into your childhood trauma and your childhood issues, we can do that. But that's where that comes from because it's a worthiness issue, right? If you don't ask for help, nobody can help you and you rob other people from an opportunity to help you and you don't get the help that you need. So just be vulnerable, right? And admit I need some help around here. Okay, here's kind of related. One is grandparents raising a strong willed child, right? And this is a grandma who works, who has a disabled husband and they've got a high energy child that's very young. So look, this is hard. There aren't some of these things. There are not easy or good answers to it's just plain hard. And so here's my best advice to all of you. Do what works for your family. Stop comparing yourself to other families. Stop listening to all those other families and looking on Facebook and Instagram at their perfect family outings.
- [30:44]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [30:45]
Kirk Martin
When yours have never been like that. They're just pictures, it's just right? Virtually no families have that. Stop that. In fact, my vice is make sure that your best friend has a child who's way worse than yours because it'll make you feel better about your life. So, right? Because you can tell your husband, like, hey, our child struggles a little bit. I think theirs is going to jail. So. But I would do a couple things here. Do what works for you. Number one, do that. Give that younger child some adult type jobs doing the home I mentioned all the time. But our kids are not good at doing kid things, but they're good at doing adult jobs. Try it. Make it a challenge, right? Do some old school things. Grandma, you said you're older. You guys don't have the energy. Your husband's disabled. Teach your grandchild some of the old school things like playing board games, like doing those seated things that we did, right? Telling stories. Stories, right? The old school things that we did that I did with my grandma when I was a kid. And don't be afraid to ask others for help. Okay, I'm going to. Let me cover this one. And this is going to cover a lot of questions on how do you motivate a child? Because I remember one of the questions was like, oh, I have a 12 year old boy who's not motivated. And I was like, tell me a 12 year old boy anywhere in the world who's motivated. It's very, very common for middle school age boys to be really motivated and even high school at times too, right? So this is very, very common. So just don't freak out about that. So here are a few things that I'd say. A lot of times it comes from a lack of confidence. A lot of kids who are unmotivated, right, it looks like they're lazy. It's that they just don't have a vision for their life. They don't have a lot of confidence. They're not always the kids who are like, I'm going to be an engineer, I'm going to be a nurse, I'm going to be a teacher. They don't know what they want to do, right? Because they're not always that good at school. And our society does a horrible job with kids who are very Very bright, but don't like school.
- [32:45]
Casey Martin
Right.
- [32:46]
Kirk Martin
And so I would give them, like I said, adult type jobs. Ownership. Give them ownership of their choices within your boundaries. We cover that a lot. Look, I'll just say this so I don't forget. If you have a teenager or a child, say 11 and above, if you need help with them, look into our program. It's called the no BS program. So if you go to celebrate calm.com, look under products. It's no BS instruction manual for strong will kids. Because nobody gave you instruction manual. So we created once 25 action steps. I'll tell you is one of my favorite, favorite things to do, especially with older kids, especially rebuilding that relationship. There's a lot of practical tools in there that are really, really helpful and I'm going to mention a couple of them right here. Here's the big thing I want to do with motivating kids. Find and discover what they care about, not what you care about. I know what you and I care about. We want kids to have good grades and good behavior and good study skills. And we want them to have good manners and all those good things. But your kids don't care about that. Now look, you may have a more compliant child, a more neurotypical child that does care about those things and loves doing schoolwork and gets good grades and is good behavior. Perfect. That's awesome. So you already know what they care about. They care about what everybody else cares about. So life is kind of easy for them as a child. But you, if you're listening to this podcast, probably have a child who cares about all kinds of other stuff, but not necessarily the stuff you want them to care about. So the number one thing would be find. Discover what they care about. And I'll give you a formula that we use with a couple examples. I can't do too much because it's going to. I could spend an hour and a half on this, but we don't have that time. So find. So here's what I encourage you to do. Mission and mentor with older kids. The formula is this. I would want to make a list. Identify your kids natural gifts, talents and passions. What are they good at doing? What do they naturally love doing? What are their natural. Just what do they love? What are they good at? What are they curious about? Who do they connect well with? Number two, find ways for your kids to use their natural gifts and talents outside the home, in school if you can. But mainly it's going to be in the neighborhood, church, synagogue, mosque, somewhere else outside of your home and thirdly, accountable to another adult. So mission and mentor. I want to give them a mission about something they care about. They don't usually care about school projects, but they may care about money, having their own little business. They love animals so they might like to volunteer at an animal shelter, help out at a veterinarian's office. Just getting an internship, doing it for free.
- [35:23]
Casey Martin
Right.
- [35:23]
Kirk Martin
Many of your kids love, they get along great with little kids. Not siblings, but little kids. They get along better with older people and little kids. So put them in situations like this, summer vacation, Bible school.
- [35:36]
Casey Martin
Right.
- [35:36]
Kirk Martin
Let them go and work there because they're great with little kids. So let me put this together for you, a couple examples. So we're working with this family. Actually this is a live workshop. A mom got at the Q and A time, said, oh, I've got this 12 year old daughter and she's not motivated, she's got a bad attitude, she won't do her school. What consequences can we give her so that she'll start doing her schoolwork and have a better attitude? And I was like, there are no consequences for that. Just think what you're asking. Is there a consequence that is going to see? We're trying to give a consequence, thinking that's going to change this outward behavior. When in reality what we're dealing with is a child who's not motivated, who doesn't feel confident, who doesn't have a vision for their life. You can't give a consequence for that.
- [36:23]
Casey Martin
Right.
- [36:23]
Kirk Martin
Does that make sense? So here's what I asked her. I said, look, we don't have a lot of time during a little break. I said, what does your daughter love doing? You know what she's really good at? Soccer. Good. Who does she connect well with? Oh, she's great with little kids. So I said this. Okay, here's what I want you to do. Go in your neighborhood, let's find a soccer coach who is coaching little kids. And I want you to go to that coach and say, hey, I've got this 12 year old daughter loves helping other adults, not me. You can keep that to yourself. But you know our kids, they love other adults helping other adults, not you. She loves, she loves soccer, she loves little kids. You look a little overwhelmed. Would you mind, would you consider allowing my daughter to come help you out with your practices and your games? Because I think you'll find it really helpful. So this is a big key. If you can, as long as this is safe with another adult, have that coach, have that other Adult approach your child, whether it's through you, however you want to do it, and say, hey, I've heard you're really good at X. Could you come help me on Tuesday night? So this is what happened. The coach asked. Rebecca said, look, I need some help. I've got these little kids. I've heard you're really good. Soccer. Come out Saturday night or Tuesday night, 6:00. So Rebecca goes out, she helps with soccer. At the end of the practice, guess what she got? She got hugs from, like, 12 little girls. Why? Because little girls always look up to the older girl. And Rebecca, while she had a bad attitude at home and while she didn't do her schoolwork, when you put her on a soccer field, you give her a soccer ball and a bunch of little kids, she comes alive and she's got energy and she attracts those kids and they loved her. So when she came home that night, did she have a bad attitude? No. Why? Because we created a success. We put her in a situation which she was using her gifts, and she felt that. So the coach says, rebecca, come out again Saturday morning. We've got a game. I could use your help. Rebecca goes, helps out. She's good at it. You know how you build confidence? Confidence comes from competence, being good at something. She was good at this. She didn't need people saying, oh, you're so good. She knew it internally, and she knew people were watching and she knew her parents were watching. And you put her in that situation coaching these little kids. She was awesome. And here's the cool part. After the game, two sets of parents come up to her and say, hey, Rebecca, we don't really know you, but it's like our daughters talk about you all the time. You know, our daughter's struggling in school. Would you consider, you know, mentoring or tutoring her? Not knowing. Rebecca had not done schoolwork for years, right? Because she wasn't motivated. Now, now Rebecca's motivated. Why is she motivated? Because her mommy and daddy told her that school is important and teachers in school say, no, it's because another adult has asked her for help with their kids. And here's what she knows. If I'm going to tutor those kids, because the coach will say, hey, Rebecca, I want you to continue working with these kids. But if I hear from your parents that you're not keeping a B average, if I hear that you're mouthing off, you're not working with these kids because I'm looking for a leader and that your child to another adult will say, yes, ma'am yes, sir. Something they won't say to you because why that mentor, that other adult, has something that your child cares about, being with those kids, coaching soccer. And so guess what? Now Rebecca has a reason to do schoolwork. Not to please you, not to make anybody else happy, but because it allows her to continue to do what she loves, which is coach these younger kids. Does that. I hope that makes sense. I get your kids volunteering at an animal shelter, starting a little business, helping a neighbor fix an old car, do mechanical things, build things. Just get them doing what they're good at, doing the other thing. And I'm not going to spend any time on this, but I have to mention it with motivating any of your kids is you must bond with the parent. You've got to make sure that the relationship with your child's father as much as you can. I know some of you are divorced and the dad's a narcissist and it's not going to work. But for those of you who have this option, if you're a guy listening, your relationship with your child is incredibly important. I know. It's like, well, that sucks. Just. You're only pointing out the father. I'm pointing out which is true. Which. Something that is true in our experience with a million families that I see every single day. And it also is borne out by a lot of social research. If the relationship with the father is not good, and this happens a lot with teenage boys. If a teenage boy grows up and knows I can never please my father, and my father's not ever happy with me, and he's just always yelling at me, and all he does is discipline me. That child will often shut down to prove that what his father thinks is correct. You know what? You already thought I was a loser. Guess what? Now I'm a loser. It just happens and it's really important. And I can't tell you how important that is to do that. And in that no BS program, I'm not just. I'm not trying to sell that. I'm letting you know, honestly, this is one of my favorite programs, is extremely helpful, and it's really good for dads because it's concise. It's 25 action steps, and a lot of them are really, really good ones for a father to learn how to bond with the child that he's always had trouble bonding with. Okay, let's move on. Sass. Blatant disrespect. Disrespectful tone words.
- [41:32]
Casey Martin
Right.
- [41:32]
Kirk Martin
Defiance. Absolute. No. When asked to do something right. And the mom went on to say, the mouth on our 7 year old strong willed daughter is what gets her in the most trouble, especially with my strong willed husband. And this is, I'm going to expand this because I had a lot of people comment, oh yeah, our kids are pretty strong willed. They can't control themselves and neither can the husband. So look, my honest response when I need read this is your husband has to grow up. You simply can't as a man or grown woman blame everything on a 7 year old or a 17 year old.
- [42:10]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [42:11]
Kirk Martin
You can't blame a 7 year old for not being able to control her mouth when the 37 year old can't control his. So in some ways my response is you need to talk to your husband, not the 7 year old. And moms, a lot of moms are in a really hard spot because you've got a strong willed child and then you have a husband who can't really control himself. And so you're managing all these different people, right? You're managing everybody else's emotions. And when your husband's coming home or into the living room, you're like, guys pick up Legos. Dad can't handle it when there's Legos on the floor. Or dad doesn't like it when you do that and you're caught in between and you get adrenal fatigue and you get exhausted and you get just and resentful because it's like, look, I'm trying to take care of these kids but then I've got this grown adult who's supposed to be my husband, who's supposed to be my partner and now I'm managing his emotions because every time, every night the dinner table is just husband yelling at the kids and it doesn't work right. That's exhausting. So a few things and I'm going to come back to the husband thing in a second. Strong willed kids, you've got to give them ownership and I encourage you. Listen to the strong willed child program that we have. There's a key concept of giving kids not control of your home, but ownership within your boundaries, making things a challenge, using that energy, saying, hey, bet you can't do X giving them grown up jobs. I put them in a position to succeed. Look, I tend to expect the no from a strong willed child. I just do. It's what I do as humans. My first response is when someone asks me to do something is a no. Why? Because it buys me some time to figure out a different way to get it done and they want to do it on their own terms. And I'm not going to do that right here. But it's a great trait because it's a sign of an independent thinker. Now, I know it's irritating as the parent, you don't let your kids do whatever they want. I'll get to that in a minute too. But I tend to give kids some options and I expand my boundaries so I'm not so rigid all the time. And I encourage all of you as parents, all of us, to watch. Like is what you're asking your child more for your own convenience or more about your own control issues and the way you want to do it? Do they have to do it your way? Do they have to? Or is that just arbitrary? Because strong willed child's not going to do it your way. And I'd rather give them a little bit of space to do it differently and say, look, here's what I want done. Here's my goal, my objective. I don't care how you get it done. If you want to do it in a weird way, you want to do it in a fun way, you want to do it upside down, backwards, I don't care, just get it done. I encourage you to do that.
- [44:44]
Casey Martin
Right.
- [44:45]
Kirk Martin
Look, I also don't have a problem if you have a child who's just being straight out defiant like, no, I'm not doing that, Then I declare martial law. You can't be bullied by a kid. There's no reason to be bullied by a kid. But you got to watch and make sure you're not being too rigid. Make sure you're giving some ownership using all the tools. But at the end of the day, right, if my kids don't get things done at home and it's Saturday morning, listen, guys, martial law started. What's martial law? Martial law means there's no fun in this house until it gets cleaned, right? Oh, that's stupid. That's dumb. How come we have to do. No, you're supposed to take us here on set. Yeah, not happening. Because I made a rule, which is these things don't get done during a week. They get done on Saturday morning. Seriously. I told my friend I was going to be on my screens. We were going to play video game together. We were going to. Yeah, well, too bad. Not happening. I don't have a problem at all with declaring martial law and being very tough with kids. I don't make it personal. I don't create drama and I don't go on and on, I just let them know what I expect and then I follow through on that. But my gut, it's not my gut, it's my experience. Strong willed kids, they just need a lot of ownership to do things in a different way. And we got to work hubbies, if you're listening and you struggle with this, you got to work on it. So for all those with a hubby who needs to change, I'm going to do an entire podcast on this coming up. There'll be a little bit longer and more involved, but here's some quickie notes, right? One is I've done a bunch of podcasts for dads and hubbies that I make like five to seven minutes long so they don't have an excuse not to listen. Forward that to your kids, right? But you need to be direct and here's some advice and I hope you don't get offended by this. Talk to men like other men talk to men. Talk to your husband. Now I know he should be understanding and he should be understand your love language. And I get that. But if you're listening and this applies to you, he doesn't get that. So I talk to men like I talk to other men. I talk to boys, right? I like talking to kids. I talk to kids like I talk to adults, right? So be a little bit more blunt and you have every right to say, look, hubby, you don't act like this at work, so you can't act like this at home. I expect you to be the man that I married, a model self controller for our kids. It's not too much to ask. Now I know some of you that's going to be really hard to say to your husband because he may react in a very ugly way, a dismissive way, may blame you, right? May turn it around on you. You're always blaming me. You guys be better off. All those immature things that I used to do, right? But you've got to talk to them about that and say, look, there's so many women this what hurts me. And not hurts me, what's the right word? It's distressing. I feel it. For women who are, they can't have an honest talk with their husband because the husband will dismiss them, the husband will turn it around. And you're just caught in this thing of like, what am I supposed to do here, right? It's a really brutal place to be. So I understand that. And that's why when anytime a man guy reaches out to him, I'm like, I will mentor you. You look into change. I'm all on board. I will help you with that because it's a huge deal. But you've got. I would talk to say, look, you can't. You don't do this at work. You don't walk around marching around yelling at people at work, but you come home and you do that with the kids not working. So I give your husband one or two specific things to try for the next week. Hey, hubby, look, we've been trying this thing. You want it even better. Hey, hubby, I've been listening to this guy's podcast, and here's what I've realized. I talk too much. I talk, I go on. I react too much. So I'm going to start working on that. I don't care what it is. But then you're not. It's not all about him. You're saying, hey, I've got some things to work on. This is what I'm going to work on. And, hubby, I've noticed this. When you come home or when you walk into the room with our son or a daughter, when you do X, it tends to escalate all the time. And it's not working and worked for, like, the past seven years. And I know, like, if it work, if you had a strategy or a tactic you were employing and it didn't work for seven years, well, you probably changed the tactics. So for the next two weeks, could we try X? The next time our son or daughter does X, could you just do this? Could you just sit down without trying to fix the situation? When you walk into the room for the next week, merely point out everything that our kids are doing right, but don't correct them over everything. Just point out what they're doing. Well, could we try that for one week and let's see how they respond to it. See, because I'm a practical guy, I'm a logical guy, and so for a week, I can do that. But if you come and say, like, we need to change our entire parenting approach, I'm out. It's too much for me. But I could do it for a week and I could try a couple things and then we could measure it and see, like. And then when they do well, hey, I noticed. I noticed how you came in the room with Tommy just then. Man, you really calmed that down. That really helped me out.
- [49:44]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [49:45]
Kirk Martin
Affirm when he does well and don't correct your husband every time he messes up. Okay, so I'll end with this, with that. Wives, don't be put off you're an equal partner. Women, you're an equal partner. I don't care what every certain segments of how you've been raised, right? You're an equal partner. You're smart person.
- [50:07]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [50:07]
Kirk Martin
It's not like someone just gets to dictate everything to you, right? You shouldn't be bossed around and you shouldn't be dismissed. And I want you to be able to stand up for yourself. Okay, we're getting to the end here, but if you're okay, here's a quick one. Food. Kids refuse to eat what we have in the house. Everything makes them, quote, nauseous. They don't like it. Even things they ask for from the grocery store. They constantly want to get takeout. Now, my response that I've written down, I cannot say because I'm not allowed to swear on this podcast or otherwise. We have to put some rating thing on it. But my response was, no way.
- [50:41]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [50:42]
Kirk Martin
And you can fill in whatever word you want.
- [50:44]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [50:45]
Kirk Martin
Look, if you. If you need to apologize, right? And again, this isn't just for this parent who is asking. This is. I'm expanding this. If you've created an expectation, expectation in your home that the kids are supposed to be able to just call doordash every other night and get food, then you need to apologize. Hey, we apologize for leading you to believe that we do DoorDash three or four times a week. Because that's expensive. We're not doing it. I apologize for that.
- [51:14]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [51:15]
Kirk Martin
So if they're like, oh, I can't eat that. I can't eat that. I have a couple responses. One is, no freaking way. No, you're the parent. Moms and dads, there are. Some of these things are not that hard. They just aren't. You just need to do what you know is right and put up with their whining. And they're complaining, oh, but I don't like what I'm eating. I don't like how that tastes. Oh, you know what? If that's that serious, let's go see a naturopath, right? Let's talk about cleaning up your gut biome, right? Start talking to them about that and see how that goes.
- [51:45]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [51:46]
Kirk Martin
Because that's what I hear you saying, is that there's something wrong. And so let's go see a doctor about that. But the honest answer to this one is not that hard, which is not the way it works in this home. Seriously? Yes, seriously. It's not the way that it works. We buy stuff at the grocery store, we eat at Home. If you don't like it, then you can go to the grocery store, get your own thing. But I'm not paying for doordash. And I don't care how much your kids complain. Stop giving into that. Right. This is not a. Look. Do you have to draw a distinction between, okay, my child's melting down because he's going to a new taekwondo class, and there's a lot of anxiety around that and feels like a failure and maybe the kids are picking on him. So if he's melting down, I don't say no. If and way, you got to go to the class anyway. Be a man. No. And that I'm understanding. Yeah, anxiety is hard. Of course you should be nervous going to that new place. That's hard. Navigating that. See, that's different. This is. They just got in a habit of eating Chipotle and eating whatever from doordash. Look, if I didn't have to cook every night, I would eat out every single night if I could. And I'm adult, so I could. But I care about my body, so I don't. Right. And I care about my wallet, too. But there are distinctions there. And some things are like, no, it's not the way it works. I don't know where you got the idea. Maybe your friend's parents let their kids order doordash every day and have food delivered to them. Now, if you want to walk three miles down and get something to eat, maybe we can talk about that. Right? Because now you're at least getting some exercise. If you're going to pay for part of that or you're going to do chores to pay for that, hey, I can work with that. But no, you're not going to have food delivered to you. Okay, enough of that. You get my point. Can you address a child's inability to cope with change or discontent? An easy child may express their disappointment for a few seconds or a few minutes, and then they move on. And I get that, right? They're like, ah, that was a bummer. Too bad. Strong will. Kids freak out. They can rage for 30 minutes. And part of it is, look, these are kids who are very, very intense. They live with a lot of intensity. And I know this will sound funny, but it's this. They have very high expectations. They wake up, they have an agenda, they have a vision, they see things, they're visual sometimes, and they want to accomplish these things. And when it doesn't get done, it really frustrates them. And the weird part of this, in a way, is That I know some people, right, who are not very motivated to do great things. Well, they don't get disappointed much. You know why? Because they don't really have high expectations. And so that's another way to look at it. Instead of like, my kids can't deal with that, which is true, is my kids have very high expectations and they've got big dreams. And when it doesn't go well, they get frustrated. Well, you know, there's a good side of that, and I'm not excusing that, but like, I remember, Casey will tell you if you ever talk to him. I was a freak when I started this doing Celebrate Calm, right? I was a freak. I got upset every night because of stuff going wrong. And my computer broke in my email list and the CDs weren't printing the right way because we used to, way back in the day, we actually printed our own CDs in the kitchen and put them all together and did all that stuff. And that was. And I had this big, big ideas. Well, then you get a lot of big frustration. So just know that. And it helps you see your child a little differently. But here's what I would encourage you to do. One is validate with intensity. Oh, yeah. You know what? If I were you, I'd be frustrated, too. Do that sometime. Just see how they respond, right? You know what? If I were you, I'd be frustrated, too, because you had this idea that you were going to do X. Now you can't do it. And then ask them some questions. Say, what does that feel like? Did you wake up this morning picturing that? Did you visualize this? Did you see this? Why does this mean so much? Instead of, watch this switch? You know, why can't you handle it when things go wrong? You know, life is filled with disappointment. See, that's a snotty lecture. But if I said, you know what? What is hard about that? I'm curious why? Where's that frustration? What did you want? What did you see in your brain? What was it? And see if you can get inside of them and then identify with that. When kids get very upset, it's because things are out of their control. So I try to give them something. They're in control in that moment. A mission, a task, helping you. Oh, you know what? I forgot. Could you do me a favor? Could you go in the pantry, get the spaghetti sauce? Do you think you get that top off? Because I have trouble getting it off. Well, they just accomplished something. They got the top off of that. They helped you. It Made them feel in control of something. Here's another insight that I hope you will find helpful. Some kids just verbalize everything that's going wrong with them. They just verbalize it. Ah, stupid. They're not really miserable inside. They just make you miserable. But they're not really miserable inside. They're just venting. And they just do that because it gets it out of them. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying that it is. I've also noticed I've gotten older, I do that, I verbalize. And it could sound to other people like, man, you had a bad day. I was like, no, I was just verbalizing when things went wrong because that helped me process it again. You can give them time to vent. I'd validate with intensity. Oh, I'd be frustrated too. You go do something else. Give them space so you're not looking at them melting down. Remember, people don't like to be watched when they're struggling. And then when you come back, you can say, hey, got that. You're frustrated. Okay, what are next steps? What are we going to do to problem solve? And again, in that tone, not. Honey, I can tell that you're really upset. Let's stop with that one. Okay, Stop with it. Honey, I can tell you're really upset. You know when I get really that tone, it sounds very patronizing and it sounds weak to them. See, I talk to them like an adult. Yeah, I'd be frustrated too. Same thing happened to me the other day at work. I was so PO'd. I was so upset. Whatever word is appropriate for whatever age. I was so frustrated. I totally get that. So here's what I do when I get frustrated. I walk away for like a minute and a half. For three minutes. I go get something to drink, I go to the bathroom. I give myself some space to process that disappointment. Then you know what I do? I problem solve. So that's what we're going to do now. Okay, let me take a drink. Let me finish with this one. My 11 year old's ability to bring the whole family down. If he doesn't get away, get his way, he's kind of like a black cloud always around. We're sad. We can't seem to fix this. We don't seem to know what consequence will work. Look, there's no consequence that's going to take that away. Right? We mentioned that before. It's something that it's internalizing. So I've got to mention this. When you mention black cloud it's worth checking with his doctor, the psychiatrist, just to make sure that there's nothing chemically wrong or genetically. That right. We just want to make sure that there isn't something there that is true. Depression. I know these words get bandied around a lot like, oh, he's depressed all the time. Well, there's different kinds of depression. There's situational. Right. Like, well, I'm just sad because someone broke. My girlfriend broke up with me, so I'm sad.
- [59:13]
Casey Martin
Right.
- [59:14]
Kirk Martin
Or I didn't get what I wanted. So just have to say make sure you get them checked out to make sure we rule that out. By the way, look at all the internal things with your kids. Look at their gut biome, look at their diet, look at their.
- [59:26]
Casey Martin
Right.
- [59:26]
Kirk Martin
You have a lot of kids with sensory issues. Man, if I wake up in the morning and if I'm allergic to something, if you've got a little kid who's allergic to something or has anxiety and their stomach's kind of always upset, well, that's going to put them on edge. So when things don't go well, instead of responding like a 3 out of 10, they're going to go like an 8 out of 10. So do check with those things. Check with gut issues. It's a big deal for a lot of kids, so check all those things. I would also do this. I do that mission and mentor thing. He's an 11 year old kid. That's the age which I got to have a mission in life. So let's find someone who can be his mentor. Let's get him doing something for an old guy down the street. All the stuff that I mentioned before, and I also asked this because the mom had said this, it's also, I'm naturally anxious and it's heightened when I anticipate him freaking out when I tell him notice something. So mom, let's practice this. Practice sitting with his disappointment, right? Practice that, sit with it so that you're not moved by his disappointment so much. Right. Look, I want to be moved with compassion when people are hurting and when people are suffering. But disappointment is just a part of life, right? And then there's different kinds of disappointment. So practice sitting with that disappointment so you don't feed out. Because if you're naturally anxious, and I bet you're kind of talking to your son like this a little bit and like, honey, you know, I'm just trying to figure out how to help you. Well, see, your anxiety is dumping on him and making him feel insecure about himself. So no blame, no guilt moment.
- [61:04]
Casey Martin
Right?
- [61:05]
Kirk Martin
Because I'm a naturally anxious person, too. So I want you to work on yourself and work on your tone of voice so that you're actually, when your son is in that place, you're not trying to coax him out of that just so it feels better for you. You're able to actually be the reassuring one and the calm one. Say, well, of course you're disappointed. Of course. Of course you're going through that and you can normalize disappointment. Right? I hope that makes sense. So instead of you guys, because my sense is you and your son probably feed off of each other in an unhealthy way. And so we all do those things. So no blame, no guilt. But let's work on that one, Mom. So dealing with your own suffering anxiety, learning to sit with his disappointment so you're not moved, and then you become kind of a rudder for him. And then the other thing that we mentioned is kids often verbalize things. You can ask them, hey, are you really this upset inside or are you just venting to me? Because that feels good. That would be a good thing to know, right? Are you really torn up about this or you just kind of venting? Because that feels good. And he may say, I'm just venting. And you're like, oh, well, for 11 years, we thought that you were a dark cloud. You just verbalize your stuff, right? It's just a good thing. It's a good thing to know. So I'm going to end there because I'm afraid to look. 58 minutes. I'm going to finish this in less than an hour. Thank you for listening this long. Again, give me feedback. If this is helpful, let me know. I'll keep doing more. Most of our podcasts I'm going to keep short, but if we can help you in any way, if you find this helpful, give us feedback. Write to Casey, our son. C A s e y celebrate calm.com if you need help with any of our programs, like the no BS program, the Calm Parent package, or if you just want, look, if you like what I've been talking about, just get to get everything package. You get 30 hours of insight, and it allows me to go in deep, deep detail on different situations and give you a lot of different situations and stuff I can't cover in a podcast. If you need help with it financially, ask Casey. We'll help you out. We just want you to have the tools. So thank you for listening. Thanks for sharing the podcast with others, and I will do. I'll see if I can get to the other 118 questions I haven't gotten to. Anyway, love you all. Thanks for listening. Bye.