Q&A For Teachers & Parents: Kids Daydreaming, Not Listening, Acting Silly in Class

Summary

Calm Parenting Podcast Episode Summary

Title: Q&A For Teachers & Parents: Kids Daydreaming, Not Listening, Acting Silly in Class
Host: Kirk Martin
Release Date: January 24, 2023

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In this insightful episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast, host Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm, addresses pressing challenges that teachers and parents face with children exhibiting behaviors such as daydreaming, inattentiveness, and acting out in classrooms. Drawing from his extensive experience working with over 1,500 children, including those with ADHD, OCD, ODD, and ASD, Kirk offers practical, empathetic strategies to foster positive behavior and enhance learning environments.

1. Understanding and Engaging Daydreamers

Timestamp: [01:20 – 09:27]

Kirk begins by tackling the common issue of children who frequently daydream in class. He emphasizes that daydreaming is a sign of intelligence and creativity, rather than mere inattention. According to Kirk, when children become bored or seek mental stimulation beyond the current task, their brains engage in daydreaming as a productive form of exploration.

Notable Quote:

"Daydreaming is a really good thing, and we don't want to snuff it out. Almost all the studies that I've read show that daydreaming is a sign of intelligence."
— Kirk Martin [02:15]

Strategies Offered:

• Affirmative Engagement: Instead of reprimanding, acknowledge the child’s imaginative nature. For example, addressing a daydreaming child named Olivia with, “Olivia, where did you just go? You have such a great imagination,” helps the child feel validated rather than shamed.
• Channeling Creativity: Assign tasks that utilize their imaginative skills, such as asking them to teach a class or lead a project, thereby redirecting their focus constructively.
• Creating Order: Encourage activities that allow children to create order externally, like lining up objects, which can help them manage their busy thoughts internally.

2. Managing Students Who Read During Class

Timestamp: [12:56 – 21:03]

Transitioning to another common classroom scenario, Kirk addresses the challenge of students who read books during lessons, such as math class. He highlights the importance of recognizing and valuing the student’s love for reading while maintaining classroom discipline.

Notable Quote:

"You're always reading, see, now you've just connected with that student over reading books."
— Kirk Martin [14:45]

Strategies Offered:

• Positive Reinforcement: Instead of dismissing the behavior harshly, acknowledge the student's curiosity. For instance, saying, “Jacob, I love that you’re so curious and enjoy reading. After lunch, you can share what you’re reading with the class,” fosters a positive relationship.
• Structured Opportunities: Provide designated times for students to indulge in their interests, ensuring they remain engaged without disrupting the lesson.
• Connecting Interests to Curriculum: Link the child’s reading habits to classroom activities, allowing them to contribute meaningfully, such as presenting a book report after class.

3. Addressing Acting Out for Attention

Timestamp: [16:26 – 21:03]

Kirk delves into the motivations behind why some students act out, seeking attention and approval from their peers. He explains that acting out often stems from a deeper need for acceptance and connection, especially among children who may feel socially isolated or misunderstood.

Notable Quote:

"He's not looking at a rude, disruptive student. He's desperate for other kids to like him."
— Kirk Martin [17:40]

Strategies Offered:

• Empathetic Understanding: Recognize that disruptive behavior is often a cry for attention rather than intentional defiance. Viewing the child’s actions through this lens shifts the approach from punishment to support.
• Leveraging Strengths: Assign responsibilities that align with the child’s strengths, such as involving a talented artist in class projects, to build their confidence and social connections.
• Facilitating Friendships: Encourage positive peer interactions by pairing the child with compatible classmates, fostering genuine friendships and reducing the need for attention-seeking behaviors.
• Personalized Attention: Sit down with the child to discuss their behavior calmly and collaboratively problem-solve, demonstrating respect and understanding.

4. Accommodating Preferred Work Environments

Timestamp: [21:03 – End]

The final topic addresses students who prefer working in confined spaces, such as under their desks or in cubbies. Kirk advocates for flexibility in learning environments to accommodate different sensory and organizational needs.

Notable Quote:

"Create a safe and ordered space for students by allowing them to work in settings where they feel most comfortable."
— Kirk Martin [20:50]

Strategies Offered:

• Flexible Seating Arrangements: Permit students to choose their workspace locations, whether it’s under a desk, in a corner, or using alternative seating options that make them feel secure.
• Minimize Pressure: Reduce the stress associated with conventional homework setups by allowing children to work in environments that cater to their sensory preferences, thereby enhancing focus and productivity.
• Clear Guidelines: While offering flexibility, set boundaries to ensure that students do not disrupt others, maintaining a balanced and respectful classroom atmosphere.

Insights and Conclusions

Throughout the episode, Kirk emphasizes the importance of positive reinforcement, empathy, and adaptability in managing challenging behaviors. By understanding the underlying motivations of children’s actions and leveraging their strengths, teachers and parents can create supportive environments that encourage growth and independence. Kirk’s approach fosters mutual respect and trust, shifting the focus from punishment to empowerment.

Final Thoughts:

"The typical responses to them, the typical strategies and interventions don't work. In fact, they tend to backfire on you. So I want to give you some different ideas, unique ideas."
— Kirk Martin [01:50]

Kirk encourages listeners to experiment with these strategies and share their experiences, highlighting the podcast’s commitment to providing actionable solutions for real-world parenting and teaching challenges.

Get Involved

For those seeking further assistance or personalized training, Kirk invites listeners to visit CelebrateCalm.com or email Casey at [e-mail]. Celebrate Calm offers both in-person and Zoom training sessions designed to equip teachers and parents with practical tools to handle challenging behaviors effectively.

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This episode is an invaluable resource for educators and parents striving to understand and support strong-willed and behaviorally challenging children. By embracing empathy and tailored strategies, Kirk Martin provides a roadmap to fostering harmonious and productive learning environments.

Transcript

[Kirk Martin]

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[Kirk Martin]

So what do you do when you have a child or maybe a student who's a daydreamer? How do you bring them back? What about a kid who's like reading a book during math class? How do you handle that? What about kids who do things in a little bit of a weird way to learn? What about kids that struggle with social skills? Right? Because a lot of us have those kids. And what do you do with that kid in class who's acting out in order to be funny or have other kids laugh? How do you deal with those things? Well, good news, we're going to deal with that on this episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast. So welcome. This is Kirk Martin. I'm founder of Celebrate Calm. You can find [e-mail] these questions come from teachers, actually, because I just did teacher training in person. We just did a teacher's podcast recently and so I got these five questions and I thought, oh, I'm going to try to do a quick Q and A because teachers and parents, you're really busy and you have these kids and they're often enigmas, right? They do weird things and, and the typical responses to them, the typical strategies and interventions don't work. In fact, they tend to backfire on you and you know, the consequences don't work with these kids. So I want to give you some different ideas, unique Ideas, right? They could be even. You could call them weird ideas. I don't care. All I care about is I want them to work. So let's roll through this. Let's say, and I'm going to put this in context of classroom. But parents, you can use this with your kids at home. Just apply the principle. So first question was, I've got this little kid and they're like daydreaming all the time. I have something amazing that you can do with kids like this, and here's why. Before I tell you what, I'll tell you why. Daydreaming is a really good thing, and we don't want to snuff it out. Almost all the studies that I've read show that daydreaming is a sign of intelligence. Because when kids get bored or they know something, they tune out and they start going somewhere else in their brain to keep their brain stimulated. It's actually a really healthy thing. But as we know, you can't just go through life always daydreaming, but you can go through a lot of life daydreaming, because that's how you come up with ideas. But let's stick to this in class or at home. Here's an awesome one. Let's say your child's name is Olivia. And you say, oh, Olivia, where did you just go? You just went somewhere really interesting inside your brain, didn't you?

[Teacher]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

And you can combine it, you can add to it. You can say things like, you know what I love about you? You're always thinking and you have the coolest ideas. You have such a good imagination. And I love your imagination. Where did you just go? And the child may be a little bit sheepish, right? Because what they're internalizing or feeling is like, oh, I just got caught not paying attention. And watch how we do this all the time. And look, I don't care if this goes over 10 minutes, let's do this while we're on it. Look, we get caught in these really rigid views of things, like, well, she's not paying attention. Is that true? Sure, you can say that, but that takes it down as if it's like she's intentionally being disrespectful and rude, not paying attention, right? And then what are you left with? Olivia, you need to start paying attention better. If you're not going to pay attention in class, then you're not going to get to go out for recess. And you're da, da, da, right? Can you kind of hear where we go down that path? And then here's what happens to the daydreaming child or the strong willed child, the kids we work with. As soon as you assume that what they're doing is wrong or negative and they feel that negativity, shut down. I'm done. If you think I'm ever going to pay attention to you again, you got another thing coming. Because I know that you don't believe in me and you believe the worst about me and you're always on me, right? That's even if you're not. That's what it feels like and that's what they internalize and they will either shut down or just become outright defiant. But if you were to say in a different way, different, listen to the tone. I know you just went somewhere in your brain because you have this amazing brain. And when you understand all the other stuff and you're a little bit bored, your imagination kicks in. And that's going to serve you so well in life because in imagination you solve things, you come up with ideas. And ideas change people, ideas change society. I love the daydreamer. So where'd you just go? And I'll give you another way you can use this. So we're doing a phone consultation with these two parents and they were talking about their child daydreams a lot. And I was like, well, what does she daydream about? Right? Because look, we don't even, we're not curious enough. We need to be curious about our kids because here's what our thought is all the time. Well, how do I get them to stop daydreaming so they can get stuff done around the house, Right? And I get that. But your child's primary job is not to be productive and efficient like you. Their job is, is to be curious and to explore physically, mentally in their brains. And so we want that. So look, go slow down life a little bit and said like, well, that's getting in the way of us getting things and me checking boxes off. It's like, where do you go in your daydreams? See, I want to know what they're thinking about because then I can use that. So in this case, interestingly enough, we're talking about teachers. This girl, well, here's what the parents say. Well, she likes to be in control of things. Well, who doesn't? We all do, right? So she likes lining up her little dolls and teaching them. So there's a few things going on here. One is that she likes lining things up. That alignment is a way for her to bring order to her World, because I can guarantee you little daydreamers have very busy brains and they're thinking all the time, and it feels like they're not in control even of their brain at times. And sensory kids aren't in control of their body, so they try to control everything on the outside. So she likes to line things up. Oh, there's some good insight. So guess what? Next time your daughter or this child in your class is really upset, they're feeling out of control, ask them to line something up. Ask them to come and do a job for you in which they sort things, file things, put things in a certain order, because that. That process of creating order on the outside creates order on the inside. Look, all of you do that, too. We all do it. Many of you, when life feels like it's out of control, what do you do? You go to your kitchen and you cleaned your kitchen sink. Because here's what you're thinking, I can't control my spouse, I can't control my kids, but my sink is spotless. And you go to bed like that at night, right? Because you're like, oh, at least one thing in my life is in order. So doing something physically to create order creates a certain amount of homeostasis, stability inside. So what we found out is she likes to teach her little dolls. So the parents wanted her to do chores. So here's an idea. Hey, Olivia, let's imagine one day you're going to be teaching a class because so many teachers, when they were kids, what they do, they lined up dolls and they taught because it was in them. It's a gift. And so one day you're going to be teaching in a classroom. If you wanted your students to sweep the floor in your classroom, how could you get them to do it? See, now you're taking out of Olivia and you need to sweep the floor. It's time to do your chores. Have you done your chores? Have you done your chores? Now we're letting her use her brain and creativity, and who knows, maybe she'll have the kids in her classroom sweep with the broom between their legs and behind their back in a weird way, because that's how our kids do things in a more difficult, challenging way. Why? Brain stimulation. And they want to own it themselves. They don't want to do things the way you and everybody else wants to do it. Not as efficient. But in the long run, that's the.

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[Kirk Martin]

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[Kirk Martin]

You want them to think independently, only you don't when it's independent of you because it's irritating and it's frustrating and it takes longer. But I want you to do that and I want you to take the time and let them do it their own way sometimes. Because we're trying to raise independent kids who can think for themselves and who come up with creative solutions. Right? That's what you get paid for in life is not just to follow directions. Well, I can pay someone minimum wage to do that, but if you've got someone who's got the initiative to do it differently, isn't afraid to fail, isn't afraid to push the limits a little bit, oh, that person's going to change things, start new companies, Right? So anyway, that's a cool way to do it. So ask them where they just went in their brain and don't shame them for it. Be curious about it and then affirm them because they have such a great imagination.

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[Kirk Martin]

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[Kirk Martin]

Second question. I teach math. I've got this kid in my class, keeps opening up his book, and I keep saying, you need to shut the book. Look, it's hard. It's hard being a teacher. Really hard being a teacher. And then you're put in this awkward position of saying, stop reading your book.

[Teacher]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

So one of two ways to handle this. Typically, what happens is, right, we feel disrespected as a teacher or as a parent in all these situations, and then we react with a little bit of tone. Hey, Jacob, put the book away. It's math class. You are not supposed to be reading your book. And that tone, that lecturing tone is such like, look, you don't want to be lectured either, right? None of us do. That lecturing tone is just filled with, like, ick and shame and just. It's just constantly pounding them for what you're doing wrong, what you're doing wrong. But imagine as a teacher, you could look at that child and say, jacob, you know what I love about you? You love to read, man. That means you're curious. Listen, it's math class, so you need to put the book away right now. But here's what we're going to do. After we come back from lunch or after recess, I'm going to give you three minutes to tell the rest of the class what you're reading about because I wish they were as curious as you because you're always reading. See, I didn't say, well, it's okay because you have special needs. It's okay because you have adhd. I didn't say it was okay, but my tone of voice was not lecturing. It didn't have a snotty tone. We're math class and you're reading a book. So you're a bad kid. I didn't use. I simply said in a very even, matter of fact tone, hey, you need to put the book away. And look, there's no energy in that. It's just a simple statement. You need to put the book away because we're in math class. But where does my energy go? To the solution to the problem solving. Hey, after recess I'm going to give you an opportunity. Now, if they're shy kids and they don't want to talk around in class, then don't do that one. But you could do this one. Hey, at recess when all the other kids are playing well together and we know you're not capable of that. I'm kidding. That's sarcasm, but it's true. Don't say that to a kid. But you can think of it. When all the other kids are playing, why don't you grab your book and why don't you come tell me why you're reading it, why you love that book. Because I might be interested in too, because at night I love to read books. See, now you've just connected with that student over reading books. So that again, if you go with the negative with these kids as a parent or teacher, they're shutting down. They can't take it. Okay, here's third question. I have a student in class who acts out, right. In order for the other kids to like him. So let's realize that the base of this is a kid who probably struggles with asynchronous development. Asynchronous, out of sync. Usually these kids are a little bit brighter in some ways. Not always academically. Doesn't always academically show that. But they're bright kids and they tend to be kind of old souls. So who do they get along better with? Older people or they're also socially and emotionally, they're a couple years behind. These are kids who can be outright defiant and curse you out, but then the next moment they're going to stop and help someone who needs help. They're going to go feed homeless people, right? They're going to give away everything they have and give it to someone else who's hurting because they have really big hearts and they have very sensitive hearts.

[Teacher]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

And so who do they get along with? If it's not older people, it's little kids and animals. Because the little kids and animals don't put any pressure on them and they love them unconditionally. So. Right. So who do they struggle to connect with? Kids their own age. And here's what we tell them. Hey, you're going to go to school for 12 years. And we're going to group you with only kids your own age. The very kids you struggle to connect with. So have fun, right? It's just hard. And so it makes sense to me.

[Teacher]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

I don't get freaked out about this stuff. Let's normalize some things. I can't believe that my child or this student was acting out in class. Why can you not believe that? That is a very normal thing to do. I don't know how to make friends. Nobody plays with me out on the playground. I sit by myself in the cafeteria. I don't get invited to the class birthday parties. So what am I supposed to do as a kid? Right? The normal thing is I'm going to do funny things that I think are funny or I'm going to act out and do something bad because at least some other kids are paying attention to me. And even though they're laughing at me, it feels like they're laughing with me.

[Teacher]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

So you're not looking at a. Right. One of two ways to look at that job. That's a rude, disruptive student. True. He is. That's how he's acting. But is that who he actually is? And is that his motive? No. He's desperate for other kids to like him.

[Teacher]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

Does that. Right. So when you start to see the child differently, it changes your tone. It doesn't change. You're not like, oh, I know you struggle. It's okay if you act out in class. So I have one of two responses for that. One is, I would prefer to pull the child aside sometime and help them make friends.

[Teacher]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

And so here's a good one. Hey, Jacob, listen, I could use your help next week. We're doing a new unit on reptiles. I've noticed you're really good at drawing.

[Teacher]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

Because the teacher has noticed him drawing, doodling and drawing all the time. You're good at drawing. So I've also noticed that Jimmy over here, Jimmy's really good, likes to draw, too. So at recess, if I brought some poster board outside or put it in the back of the room, could you two draw as many reptiles as you can for me? Because next week when we study, I'd love to show your work and your reptiles up on the whiteboard. It'd be awesome if you could do that for me. So what have I just done now? One, I'm using the child's gifts and talents. He's good at drawing, so why not use that to my advantage, right? By the way, side note, some kids if they're struggling with a writing assignment, don't do this every time, but once in a while, say, hey, I'll give you bonus extra credit. You're really good at building stuff. Could we're studying ancient Rome, could you build a replica of the Roman Colosseum or a working Roman aqueduct with water coming on? Could you do that? Because that would demonstrate to me that you understand what we're talking about. And then they wouldn't have to do that writing assignment. It's not getting them out of all writing assignments, but sometimes we create a success and use their gifts and passions. So I'm getting him to do that. I've given him a very specific task now at recess, instead of going outside and stealing the ball from other kids and getting in fights, he's now doing something specific and concrete that he's good at doing. I've also paired him up with another student that he may get along with. Because one of the best ways to create friendships is to work on jobs together, on projects together, doing something that you both like. And as a teacher also, you could also send a note home to Jacob's parents and say, hey, I've noticed Jacob tends to get along well with Jimmy in class. Might be a good, might be a good opportunity for a play date, right? That you don't have to do that, but you could do that, right? The other response, sometimes if I have a child who's acting out in class and it's not necessarily because he's just craving friendships, he just wants that intensity. This is what I did at my house. So we had these camps in our house. So we'd have 12, 15 strong willed kids in our house, kids on the spectrum. And there was always one kid who the first day would start swearing, right? And so at first I was like, look, if you use that kind of language in my home, you're not going to the pool today with all the other kids. He's like, fine, I'll stay home and destroy your house.

[Teacher]

Right?

[Kirk Martin]

So it set up this power struggle. And so what I would end up doing is I would come and sit down next to the child because I don't like facing off actually against any other human. Right. It doesn't work with adults. Like whenever I get an email like, well, we need to confront my sister in law. Well, good luck with that. Tell me when confronting another person has helped, right? The very word confront them implies that there's going to be resistance, right? So I went and sat alongside the kid and I said, listen, that whole swearing Thing. Not impressed. Like, I. I know way more swear words in a lot of different languages. I probably teach you a few if you want it. But here's what I think you're really looking for. I think you're a born leader. And I think you want to be a leader in this class, but you're going about it the wrong way because you think that the other kids are laughing with you, but they're kind of laughing at you because you end up losing stuff. But look, I got to go start on lunch. If you want to come help me out a little bit, I can show you how to be a leader in my home, in my camp, in my class. See that very low key thing where you're reading the moment. I know what's going on here. Look, for parents, teachers, this is a fantastic look. I know what's going on here. I know what you're trying to do. Look, it's not going to work in my class. It's not going to work in my home. But here's what I think you're after. And here's. See the energy changes. Here's how I think you could get that, because I think you'd actually be a great leader. Hey, when you're using that tone with me. Look, I get it. You're frustrated. Using that tone with me, it's just never going to work for you. But if you want to come talk to me like an adult man, I can help you problem solve. I bet we could fix this, right? So see, now instead of reacting and getting offended and making threats, and now I've got to do this and the lecture, I don't have to do that. I'm a grown adult. I stop reacting and I problem solve with people. Here's final one, and this one was a question that related to kids who come in and the teacher noticed, like, I've got these students who are always like, you know, they stuff themselves in cubbies. And the teacher of older kids was like, yeah, mine's kind of like being in confined spaces. Good. So I've got an idea for you sometime. Let them do their schoolwork. A writing assignment, a worksheet, math problems. Let them do it sitting underneath their desk. Parents, stop. Get rid of the table of death. The table of death is the homework table of death. It's the kitchen table where you stand over your child and tell them, if you would just focus, you would be done in 45 minutes instead of it taking three hours. Look, observe your kids. Some of your kids love being in confined spaces. Why order and structure makes them feel safe. So why can't they? Teachers, here's how to hey, listen, I don't care how you do your work. Literally don't care how you do your work. If you want to do your work sitting underneath your desk, I am all over that. My only rule for that is you can't distract other people. You can't be playing with other people's feet. But otherwise I'm great with however you want to do it. So try some of those things this week. Try it. Let me know how it works and then email us. You can email Casey C A-Y celebratecallm.com Let them know, tell us what you're struggling with. We'll help you out. If you want us to come train your teachers, we can do it in person like we did last week or we can do it over zoom like I'm doing tomorrow. And our training is very, very practical. Teachers love our training because it's not typical professional development boring training. Talking about theory from someone who's never been in a classroom. It's very, very practical. We make it fun and it's like our parent training. If we can help you with anything. If I had one thing that I would get if you go to our website I'd look up for teachers and to share with teachers would be adhd. University child doesn't have to have adhd. But if they struggle with a lot of these common things with focus and attention and social skills, all those things we go through how to help them. And you can share it with teachers as part of the calm parenting package or you get it individually. Email Casey, he'll help you out with it. But I hope you found this helpful. Please share this with others. Love you all. Bye bye and thanks to the teachers. You're doing an awesome job. It's really hard. Bye.