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Calm Parenting Podcast
You Say No, Your Child Gets Upset. Is There Something Different You Could Do? #600
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if you say no to your child and they have a more extreme reaction, they get really upset at you. Does that mean that you did something wrong or that you're not being a good parent? Does that mean that there's something wrong with your child or those are just a few of the questions we're going to ask on this very different episode of the Calm Parenting podcast. This is the fourth time I have recorded this. I originally recorded this for our PDA parent podcast because it's directly related to that and I was struggling with it and I had Casey listen and he said, dad, there are a lot of really good insights in here that I think will apply to a broader audience. So you may be hearing this on the Calm Parenting podcast or on our PDA parent podcast@celebratecolm.com PDA so however you got here, we're really glad you got here. And this is going to be a really tough podcast. That's why I've recorded It so many times, I want to get it right. So here's the genesis of this. I've had about a dozen parents email me and say, hey, we got this email from a leader in the PDA space who said, oh, our child just came out of burnout, and after nine months of playing Minecraft and getting food deliveries. And the question was, well, what do you think about this? And so my initial response was, I was very angry when I heard that. But I have taken two months because I don't like to reply to things when I'm angry. And the truth is, I'm still angry about this, and I'll share why. And I'm trying to answer this honestly because I believe I'm responsible to do that. There's no judgment in here. I don't need. It's such a nice thing as I get older. I don't need to convince you or anyone else that I'm right. I trust your instincts. If this approach and what I'm talking about resonates with you, and if it gives you confidence to raise your kids differently than maybe other people would, especially judgmental people, then go, good. So let's go through a lot of different points on this. So one of the first assumptions, especially in the PDA world, but especially with, you know, with our other kids who struggle with anxiety, they get overwhelmed and have a lot of different things going on. I understand the. The line of thinking that says, okay, we're going to give our kids, let them be on screens because that helps regulate them. We came up with an insight over 25 years ago. I remember one of my very first presentations before I knew what I was really doing. I remember saying, look, you've got to get inside the head of these kids, because everything feels like it's out of their control. They have these very busy brains inside and at school all day. It's sensory overload. They're being told what to do minute by minute, almost. And they're around peers that they don't always connect with. And some of our kids have dyslexia, and it's just hard. So when they come home from school, why are screens so comforting? We'll just think about video games. It's something your child feels like they have complete control of. They know exactly what to expect. The rules are the same every single time that they play that video game. There's not a mom video game and a dad video game with different rules. And so when they mess up at the game or they lose the game, the video game doesn't Lecture or use a snotty tone or say, you know what you lost. There's no shame, there's no yelling, there's no pleading. The video game just says, hey, you lost your life. You have to start over again. And your child goes along with that. Some of your kids get really upset, but they still do it. It's also stimulating for the brain. And they're also. Many of your kids are very good at video games. And so confidence comes from competence, being good at something. I'm not always good at school or behavior or getting along with kids my own age, but, man, I'm really good at this. So it makes perfect sense to me that a child would seek out screens to regulate. Now, here's where I have a huge problem with this. Because in certain corners and certain, certain leaders in the PDA space especially, they're like, well, I let my child play be on Minecraft for nine months in his room. Another one of their emails said, our son was in his bedroom for 86 straight days. And so think about this. It's absurd to think that isolating yourself and having your head in a screen would somehow be healthy. Nobody would say that. And I understand why. I really do. Because Casey was in that space when he was a younger child and in middle school. Totally get it. I've got pda. Casey has traits of pda. Totally get that. So I understand. And there's again, no blame, no guilt if this is where you have been. But there are 25 healthier alternatives to that, right? From nutrition to, to. Some of you would do vagus nerve activation, sleep, fresh air, sensory pressure and activities, exercise, being out in nature, massage, chiropractor, all those things would be very, very healthy. And so I encourage you, do a thought experiment. If someone that you cared about deeply, a friend of yours, spouse, maybe one of your grown adult siblings, came to you and said, I'm really struggling with some mental health issues or with a nervous system disability or my nerves are kind of shot. Would you or anyone in the world recommend. You know what I think you should do? I think you should isolate from other people and just have your head in a screen. And if you can do that for an extended period of time, oh, I think that'll really help you out. Nobody would say that. And, and in this PDA world, what I'm finding is, man, it can be brutal. And if you even mention this, the pushback and hatred and anger that comes at you as if, like, you don't understand, I get it. I just want to introduce some common sense here that PDA is not an exception to any of these other natural laws that we have here. And common sense. And unfortunately, many of the leaders in this space have permitted that. And I don't think it's healthy. And in fact, if you go, in addition to not being healthy, I think it can be extremely damaging. And so my fourth point, I think it is objectively not a compassionate thing to do for your child. Two of the worst prescriptions for anything to do with your nervous system health, mental health, is to isolate and be on screens. And so that's not compassionate at all, because our job as parents is to do what's best for our kids. I understand how hard it is when our kids have shut down and it seems like they can't do anything else. And then my other concern is the duration of it, nine months. And these are kids, I believe, who are under the age of 10. Just think about this. Your childhood is very short, like adulthood. If you just take it from age 20 to 80, that's 60 years. But childhood, especially kind of think about, like, prime childhood years when it's innocent and supposed to be fun. Maybe from age 4 or 5 to age 10, because middle school, it gets kind of squirrely and tough. But childhood isn't that long. And if you allowed a child to be on screens and isolated for nine months, they missed a large part of their childhood. It's like that, 86 days in their bedroom, that's three months. And there's also what I would call the rabbit hole issue, which is the longer you allow this to go on, the deeper the hole, the harder it is to come out of it. I know it's not a great example, but how many of you, when you work out at the gym, if you're on a regular schedule like me, like, I don't like the gym. I love hiking. But, man, when I'm on a good roll at the gym, it's great. But if I miss a day and then I miss another day, so much easier to miss. You know, I'll just pick it up next week. And some of these things, once you get into, okay, now it's been a week, now it's been two weeks now it's been a month, it is exponentially harder for the child to come back out of that. Number six, huge concern of mine. When I listen to a lot of people and you can say I'm being judgmental, I'm not trying to be judgmental. I'm really good at observing patterns. This doesn't mean that I'm Right. But it sure seems at times like a lot of the leaders and the parents here are emotionally entangled with their kids. And it almost sounds at times like I want or need my kid to be dependent on me. So now I can be the compassionate caretaker. And it's always couched in terms like, well, I just supported him through nine months of bringing him food and letting him be on screens. And I know some of you in the PDA world, you're going to be like, you're such an a hole. Kirk. I'm not trying to be, by the way. I don't have to try if I really wanted to be. It comes second nature to me. I'm really not. I am trying to. I am challenging some of you. Right. And I'm encouraging most of you, hopefully, to say, man, because most of the emails that we're getting, especially in the PDA space, are, you know what? What we've heard just doesn't sit right well with us. It's not sitting right with us. And I want to be someone who says, you know what? You're not alone, because I'm talking to a lot of highly trained therapists who have these same concerns. And so I don't think it's good leadership that they're practicing here. And it feels like they're all kind of tied in. Like, there was even this thing of like, well, our son came out and said, mommy, I'm not in burnout anymore. And I'll tell you, my visceral reaction was, ick. You know why? Because it sounds like they're all like, well, we're just in burnout now. We're in burnout as a family, and it feels like their identity is being created around pda. And I understand how difficult it is. Look, Casey and I have this in the Alphabet soup of labels. But one of our goals was not to let that identify us. We readily admit, like, if I ever talked to you, I'd be like, hey, I can tell you 10 things I really struggle with. I don't have a problem with that. It's very normal. We all have things we struggle with. But what I would also tell you is, okay, I'm very aware of. I have these 10 struggles. And here are the 10 specific things I do to help with those weaknesses and to help with those so that they don't identify me in that. And so I will encourage you. Just watch that happening in your home. In. It's very easy because many of you are very sensitive, many of you are very empathetic, and so then it's like, well, I'm just gonna, I, I just feel like, and I want you to challenge yourself because I want you to be compassionate. But I don't find allowing a child to be isolated on screens for nine months, I don't find that to be compassionate. I find that to be. The intention is not cruel. But, but the outcome of that very well could be cruel down the line. Why? Because we're starting to get stories now of kids who have a failure to launch when they get into high school. Now and then high school is hard navigating, it's hard academically and that social aspect of it. Well, now it's like, well mom, I'm in burnout again. Can I just go and sit in my room by myself and be on screens for the next nine months and Ms. The school year? See how that is starting to happen. And I also, you know, I always look at things from the kids point of view. What do you think the child is beginning to internalize? Your kids are going to be running around in the heat this summer and probably demanding expensive sugar laden sports drinks. Instead, carry around cure hydrating electrolyte packets like we do. Kids absolutely love the fun flavors and, and parents love that you're giving your kids something healthy. You're replacing lost electrolytes. 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- [15:35]
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I think at times when I've talked to Casey about this, as he thinks about his childhood, there were at times feelings of his where he said, it felt like I wasn't capable or you guys didn't think I was capable of doing difficult things. There's a certain amount of shame. Well, why can all the other kids do it? Why can my brother and sister, they can handle these things, but I can't. And then, forgive me for the language, but I don't know another. Well, I do know another way to say it, but I want to say it this way. If I were a kid and later on in life, a few years from now, I found out like, wait, you just let me waste nine months out of my childhood? I'd be pissed. Wait, why? Why didn't you guys have the courage or the skills or the tools to lead me out of that? Why did you leave me in that place? Now, again, I don't want you to feel guilt. Some of you have done this because you didn't know any other options. You and you were doing your best. There's no guilt in that. But I don't want it to continue on. And I also want to put my voice out there to say I don't think this is right. I think this is very harmful for our kids. Another point, you know, I'm all about our kids, especially strong willed kids and PDA kids having a lot of autonomy. We call it ownership. I want you to have ownership of your choices and your life. I step back, you step up. I let go of my anxiety and my control issues. I want you to have a lot of freedom. But not everything can be led by a child because they are still a child. And that is not looking down on them. Oh, they're just children. It's just the fact of. I'm a grown adult. I'm a parent. I have three decades, four decades, five decades of experience on this planet, I know more than my child. We've swung a little bit too far to be too egalitarian. When there are times where your child needs you to set boundaries and you need to be their thinking brain to say, hey, yeah, I know, I understand what you're feeling. I can acknowledge that. But that's not good. For you, that's not healthy. And so I'm going to be the leader. And there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not talking about being authoritarian. What? I'm the boss of this home. I'm the dictator. I'm not talking about forcing and pushing and denigrating. You know what? I don't know why you stay in your room all the time. Why are you incapable, your brother? None of that, there's none of that that I've ever taught that's in there. But we have to be the leaders. And we can be empathetic, compassionate, confident leaders who lead our kids through discomfort. Now if you're struggling with that, a lot of the PDA parent podcasts that I have done focus on how you can do that. So I want us to lead a little bit more. I want our kids to feel confident and competent, to know that they're capable. Okay, here's another one. And this is usually the hardest thing that parents face after, after they wrestle with this. So the parents who go through the PDA parent program, even the co parent Parenting bundle, if you get it, I help personally with the toughest situations and this one is usually the core issue. And the first question is, okay, but what if we don't allow our child to be on screens? They're going to be extremely upset and they're going to lash out and, and in the PDA world, there's a lot of fear. Oh, are they going to go back into burnout? What are we going to, we can't do that because that's just going to, that's just going to harm his nervous system. There is way too much fear in that world. I'd encourage some of you to be honest, get off some of those forums and some of those things because it causes parents to tiptoe around their children and doubt themselves and, and live like this. That's not good. Confident leadership. Confident leadership doesn't mean that it feels good, it doesn't mean that it's easy, and it doesn't mean you always feel confident. You're going to second guess yourself all through this, but you can't shrink back from that. So the question, well, what if they're upset? Well, let's step back for a second, right? Like, well, what if my child's upset because I told him that he couldn't eat sugar, sugar snacks at 5 o' clock right before dinner? What if my child's upset because I said he has to go to bed at a reasonable time? What if they get well, then they May as well not have parents. Right. Because we have to set boundaries. So I expect, I fully expect that the child will be extremely upset and, and that they will lash out. That is very normal. It is a genuine response from the child who is probably being triggered of like, no, no, this, this, the rest of my world is out of my control and I'm overwhelmed. And these screens, this is my safety blanket. Now you're taking it away, but here's the thing. I'm not going in and like, ripping it out of their arms and saying, you know what? You can't have this. You know, you're too dependent on this. No, I'm saying there are lots of different alternatives to letting kids isolate by themselves and be on screens. And so the tone behind it is, because I love you so much, because I believe in you, I'm not going to allow you to isolate and be on screens because that's not good for you. And I objectively know that. Can you hear the tone in that? Right. And so otherwise you're going to be held hostage. Every time you try to give a boundary or say no and your child gets upset, well, then what's your response is like, well, I guess we'll just never ask our kids to do anything and there won't even be any boundaries. And now you become an enabler. And I understand in this world, and I mentioned this on, I think, one of the last PDA parent podcasts, and I know some of you will get angry at this, but sometimes I think we've used these other people's teachings a little bit as an excuse of like, well, they can't do it, right? They can't. They can't do it. So if they can't, well, then I don't have to lead them through their discomfort because that makes me really uncomfortable. And that goes back to being emotionally entangled with your kids and not being able to say no. My job is to lead my kids because I love them. So if you've made it this far, thank you for that. And so I'll give you this quick encouragement. I've had three families email in the last 10 days, and they said, we did this. And so the first two days off of screens, one family said the first two days, absolute hell. Other family said five days of pure hell. The other family, two weeks. That's hard. Kudos to you for lasting for two weeks. And they said it was pure hell. But then here's the cool part. Once they made it through, the common phrase was, we feel like we just got our child back. We feel like we're leading and we're making progress because doing this month after month after month normalizes that that's okay, that that's healthy. So guess what? When the next really hard thing happens or something triggers their nervous system, well, I think I could use another six weeks on my screens. And I'm not denigrating the child. That's all they know because they're kids. Look, we're all like that. We all choose. We all tend to choose at times, the easier path in life. Some of you have needed to talk to your spouse about something really hard. You put it off. Why? Because it's really difficult and it's going to cause your spouse to dismiss you or get upset. It's human nature. But I want you to know, just because your kids are upset and I found a, a lot of younger parents because you are so empathetic and you're so connected to your kids. You really struggle with this and you think, well, if my kids are upset, that I must have done something wrong, maybe I need to do it differently. What I want you to know is this. Just because your kids get upset and lash out does not mean that you did something wrong. It does not mean that there's a good alternative to, to the way that you did it sometimes. This is just the way that it works. It doesn't mean that you're a bad parent, and it doesn't mean that there's something wrong with your child. You know what's best for your kids. And I want you to trust in yourself to know that and to lead them through that discomfort. So the most common question we get from parents is, well, how do we lead them out of burnout, off of screens? And every child is different because they've got unique gifts, talents and passions. And I went through in the program what we did with Casey in his earlier years and then in kind of the middle school years. And so I'm not going to go through that here because it's something I do through the PDA parent program. And it's very, very specific to each family and each child. But what I'm really looking for is this. I just got an email that said this. We have struggled and wrestled inside so much with things, but what we're finding now is we have confidence to lead. We have confidence to take another path and know that we're not hurting our child, that in the end we are doing the right thing and that our child is happier now and feels. And here's the other thing I'M hearing, which is awesome. The kids are proud of themselves. I did one on a kid who got in on an airplane and was terrified of the airplane, which I can relate to. And after his mom led him through that and he got home and got a good night's sleep, he had said, mom, thank you for helping me with that. Because we want to set our kids up for the rest of their lives. Because life is hard. There's a lot of disappointment, frustration and stress. There's trauma that happens. There are all kinds of very, very difficult things that happen. And I want our kids to have the skills to know, yes, that's really hard. And I had to dig deep. But now I have some tools to do that differently. So I encourage you go to celebrate calm.com, look on the PDA tab, listen to past episodes. If you want me to mentor you through that, go through the PDA parent program and I will answer you personally. I will work really hard at that. And if you don't have a child with pda, you want the calm parenting bundle, do that. I will help you. And if you struggle, if you're struggling financially, email Casey C A S e y celebrate calm.com if you want all the programs, Casey can put together a very, very special thing for you. But most of all, what I want you to know is you're good parents. And I want you to be confident and trust yourselves. Because guess what? It's so cool when your whole family starts to feel like, you know what, we're doing difficult things together. Mom and dad are doing it, kids doing it. That's a cool thing in life. So love you all, respect you all. Let us know how we can help you.
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- [28:26]
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Why does Progressive work hard for truckers? Because truckers unite the world. They unite kids with their first drum sets and parents with earplugs. But truckers can't do this if they're not on the road. That's why Progressive has over 360 heavy truck employees to help truckers stay on time and on track. Quote Truck Insurance today in as little as eight minutes@progressivecommercial.com progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates.