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11American scientists, researchers and facility workers are either dead or missing in just a few years. All of them, according to a list circulating right now, somehow are connected to sensitive United States research. In April of 2026, the FBI confirmed it was reviewing whether any links exist between the cases. Congress opened its own review. And recently reporter asked President Donald Trump at the White House, and his answer was just, well, I hope it's random. Most of these 11 cases already have some explanations. So the question is, why is the FBI still reviewing it? Well, it's because some of them have no explanation. Two of them are missing. No body, no footage, and no explanation. And one of them, eight days before he vanished, was on the other end of a presidential truth social post about UAP disclosure. And this leaves us with just two questions that actually matter. At what point does a string of coincidences stop just being a coincidence? And who will go missing next? Well, today we're going to find out. So sit back, relax, and welcome to Camp Foreign. What's up, people? And welcome back to camp. My name is Mark Gagnon, and thank you for joining me in my tent, where every single week we explore the most interesting, fascinating, controversial stories from around the world, from all time forever. And today is no exception. We are deep diving into one of the most interesting UAP slash high strangeness slash conspiratorial stories of the past few weeks. But before we begin, I just want to say thank you so much to you. Yeah, dude, you for clicking on this video, for commenting, for liking every time you interact with our content. You really help grow the channel and you help keep the lights on here in the tent and you help keep the fire burning. Furthermore, I want to say big thanks to my pal Christos for always just being on the ones and twos, for, you know, chiming in with really pertinent information. Just really helping everything go on here at the campsite. Thank you so much. That's really sweet. Christos, we don't have time to have a bunch of derailments and interjections because time is of the essence. Now, you may have seen on social media or in the news that there has been a headline going around that there are dead or missing scientists who seem to be related to each other somehow and people are concerned about it. But what is actually going on and what are we actually talking about? So we can just lay this out in pretty plain language so we're all on the same page. And I first heard about the story just circulating on Twitter and I was like, okay, well, maybe there's A connection, I don't know. And then I started listening to some commentary from my friend Julian Dorey, as well as my buddy Jesse Michaels and kind of listening to their analysis and really they did a great job of breaking some stuff down. And I realized like, oh, there's a lot more to this. So today we're gonna try to lay out everything that's going on, all the facts and all the official explanations, as well as tying in some of the sort of peripheral theories as to what could be going on, as well as some of my own analysis. So here's the basics. Between 2022 and 2026, a list of American scientists and engineers and government adjacent workers started to circulate online. All of them either died or mysteriously disappeared. And almost all of them, according to this list, had some connection to sensitive US research. Now this list didn't start off with a bang or some type of giant news story. It was just kind of like circulating on message boards and then Reddit and you know, I saw some stuff on X and you know, a couple YouTube videos. And then something else happened that would force this obscure list out of the corners of the Internet and just into everyone's focus. On February 27, 2026, a retired Air Force officer named William Neil McCaslin, known amongst his friends as Neil, vanished from his home in Albuquerque. CNN reported that he had played a role in the military's real investigations into unidentified aerial phenomena, also known as uap. And within days, the story jumped from fringe forums into mainstream headlines. Fox News asked President Trump directly about it and his response was kind of like, yeah, you know, we're looking into it. I hope it's random, but we're going to know in the next week and a half what's going on. Shortly after, the FBI issued a public statement confirming that it was spearheading the effort to look for connections between these cases and coordinating with the Department of Energy, Department of War and state and local law enforcement. The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform chaired by James Comer, opened a congressional review and Comer actually told FOX that the whole thing doesn't pass the smell test. Now what does that mean, doesn't pass the smell test? That's it seems ominous to say the very least. Smells fishy. That right? There's something going on that at least the people in high ranking positions, the government that are actually responsible for this, seem to be taking this very seriously. Now, the deaths and the disappearances are in different cities and oftentimes concerning different labs and research in different fields. Many of them with different causes of death or, you know, missing circumstances. So how does this list form and what is the connection? So here's what we're going to do. We're going to go through every single name on the list and together try to identify the through lines that people are talking about. And by the time we're done, we're going to know something that the Internet is still trying to grapple with and still doesn't know how to resolve. Two of these cases don't fit the pattern at all. Two of them define the pattern and the rest are kind of in between. Now, as far as I can tell, this all started in June of 2022. Four years ago, a 34 year old anti gravity researcher in Huntsville, Alabama recorded a video that would eventually become the single most unsettling artifact in this whole story. Her name is Amy Eskridge. She died on June 11, 2022. It was a confirmed death and the official cause was, and I don't even know if I can say this word because of YouTube's policies, so I will just say self deletion. She was 34 years old. Eskridge was the co founder of the Institute for Exotic Science in Huntsville, Alabama. Her public work centered on what she called anti gravity propulsion, a field sitting on the blurry line between fringe science and DARPA adjacent research. Her family has publicly stated that she suffered from chronic pain prior to her death. But here's the piece that everyone is latching onto. About a month before she died, Eskridge recorded a video showing burns on her hands and attributed them to an attack by a guided energy weapon. Now that video, dormant for years, resurfaced in 2026 as the list was going viral. Her family has asked the public to stop using her death as evidence of anything. This was their statement. People should realize that scientists die also and not to make too much of this. Now the video exists online and you can find it, but for the sake of respecting the family's wishes, we're not going to actually watch it during this program. So that is the first one, possibly. Then almost a year later, Michael David Hicks dies on July 30, 2023. The confirmed death was natural causes. Hicks was a 59 year old planetary scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory from 1998 to 2022. He studied comets and asteroids and his daughter told CNN that he suffered from a chronic medical condition. The LA county coroner reportedly attributed his death to arteriosclerotic cardiovascular disease. Her reaction to seeing his name on the list Was this. I can't help but laugh about it, but at the same time it's getting serious. What exactly does that mean? Difficult to discern. But again, we'll talk about all these cases more broadly in a second. Then almost exactly one year later, again is the story of Frank Maywald. Now he died on July 4, 2024. Confirmed death, but the details are limited. Maywald, who was 61 at the time, was a Jet Propulsion Labs engineer who worked on imaging spectroscopy and surface water and ocean topography instrumentation. Now public reporting on the circumstances of his death is very limited, which is kind of in and of itself why I think his name kind of ends up on this list. Now so far, let's just pause, we're kind of noticing something. So far we have one self deletion, potentially with a mental health history or at least with a chronic pain history, one documented cardiovascular death. And so far, kind of the mysterious part at this point is the absence of information, which as we know is not the presence of evidence. So just keep that in mind as we continue. Now the next case happens about a year later, June 22, 2025, but the details in this one are, are a first. So Monica Jacinto Reza, she was reported missing and as of recording this episode on, you know, in April of 2026, she has still not been found. And this is the case that has really kind of set the Internet on fire and has made a lot of researchers online take pause. Reza was 60 years old and was a metallurgist and a materials engineer at the Jet Propulsion Lab. She's best known for co inventing Mondaloy. This is like a nickel based super alloy that solved one of the hardest problems in American rocketry. And of course her research is extremely important to rockets and jet propulsion in general. It's massively important. And the mystery of her disappearance is essential to understanding the danger of the list. So this is effectively what Monica Reza's research was trying to solve. For decades, the US had an advanced rocket propulsion system and a process that was stuck on the same engineering problem. The metals that were strong enough to survive these high pressure oxygen rich combustion environments would ignite. And the metals that didn't ignite were just too weak to actually trust inside of an engine. And as a result there's a stalemate. And that issue is why for years the United States was buying its most sensitive national security rocket engines, the Russian RD180 from its biggest geopolitical rival. Now in the 1990s, Reza and her co worker Dallas Hardwick finally Cracked the code at the Rockwell Science center, and Mondaloy was invented, and it landed inside the AR1 engine, the American replacement for the Russian RD180. So, on paper, Dr. Reza wasn't just a materials engineer. She was one of the only people on the planet who knew how to build the essential elements and the skin of a rocket that wouldn't burn. And this is where things get weird. On the morning of June 22, 2025, she reportedly went hiking near Mount Waterman in the San Gabriel Mountains, about an hour outside of Los Angeles with a friend. Her friend got a few steps ahead of her. He turned back, and he saw Dr. Reza walking, you know, just hiking up this trail. And then he turned around a moment later, and she was gone. The LA County Sheriff's Crescenta Valley Station, as well as the Montrose Search and Rescue Station, searched the area for eight days by land and air. The only items ever recovered were her beanie and her visor, found about 400 yards off the trail. Now, interestingly, her beanie, according to photos that were taken that morning, showed that it was actually tucked into her hip belt. Now, the terrain in this area was steep, but according to civilian researchers, it might not be steep enough to be fatal in a fall. And as of recording this, she has still not been found. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break real quick because I got to tell you something kind of embarrassing. All right? I've been working out pretty consistently for a while. I love working out. I think it's super important part of my daily routine, and I don't really eat garbage, and I'm doing all the stuff you're supposed to do, and I got in pretty good shape. But at some point, I noticed the results kind of just stopped, like, matching my effort, kind of around the time that I had a kid. 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And I did blood work recently completely unrelated to this. And I've been taking Mars Men for, I don't know, maybe like four or five months. My testosterone went up. Now, I don't know if it's from Mars, I'm not going to say it's only them. You know, maybe I've been eating a little cleaner, I've been sleeping better, who knows? But my testosterone actually got an increase. I mean, I couldn't believe it. My energy feels steadier throughout the day. My workouts have been better. And going into summer, I'm actually like leaning in a way that I feel better about now. Mars Men is a natural supplement. I don't even have it in the studio because it's at my house. There's no synthetic hormones, no sketchy stimulants, just actual ingredients like Tonga Ali shilajit, zinc boron, and they're designed to actually support healthy testosterone levels. Now look, you can just go buy all of these supplements yourself. You can go buy tongat Ali shilajit, but you gotta make sure they're from the right place. You gotta make sure they're the right quality. And it can get expensive to actually like parse it all together. But with Mars Men, it's just all of it in one already done for you. It's made in the USA, it's third party, tested in every batch, and over 91% of users actually report higher energy. Now here's the crazy thing with Mars men. There's a 90 day money back guarantee. 90 days, three months of trying it out. And if it's not for you, you get your money back. Zero risk. And for a limited time, the people are listening to this program, you're going to get 50% off for life. I don't know how often this offer comes around. I don't know why they're doing this. 50% off for life, free shipping and three free gifts@ Mengotomars.com that's Mengotomars.com for 50 off and three free gifts when you check out. It's also available on Amazon. It really worked for me. I like it. I still take it because, you know, I like natural supplements and it makes me feel good. Now when they ask where you heard about it, tell them the Good people at Camp Gagnon sent you. It really helps the show more than you know. Now let's get back to it. Now, two months later, on August 28, 2025, Steven Garcia was also reported missing. Now, Garcia was 47 years old, was a contract property custodian at the Kansas City National Security Campus. This is the NNSA facility that manufactures the non nuclear components for American atomic weapons. As of recording this, he also remains missing. Later that same year, December 12, 2025, Jason Thomas died. He was 45 years old. He was the assistant director of Chemical Biology at Novartis. His death was confirmed as a drowning. And according to researchers, no foul play delay was reported. But the thing is, Jason Thomas was initially reported missing. His death wasn't confirmed until several months later. So let's break this down. Thomas's body wasn't recovered from the lake in Massachusetts until March 16, 2026. The medical examiner declared that he drowned and stated that there wasn't any foul play or suspicious activity. His wife described him as someone who suffered from depression. And in the weeks before his disappearance, his mother passed away in hospice and his father had a fatal heart attack. And then, just days after Thomas disappeared, Nuno Loureiro was murdered, a former classmate, on December 15, 2025. Now, Nuno Felipe Gomez Loreiro was born in 1977 in Portugal. He earned his PhD at the Imperial College in London in 2005 and then eventually landed at MIT in 2022. He was the director of MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion center, one of the most prestigious fusion posts on the entire planet. And then, unfortunately, he was shot at his home in Brookline, Massachusetts. His killer was Claudio Manuel Neves Valente, a former graduate classmate. Two days earlier, Neves Valente had carried out a mass shooting at Brown University, killing two students and wounding nine. After killing Lorero, he took his own life in a New Hampshire storage facility. Investigators believe that the motive was academic resentment. Basically, the story is that he was a failed scientist consumed by envy of his successful former classmate, and really had an ax to grind with Brown University. Then that was followed by yet another murder. Carl Grillmare. He died on February 16, 2026. He was 66 years old at the time. His death was a confirmed homicide and the suspect was arrested. Now, Grill Maire spent his life on galactic astronomy. And in 2007, he was part of the team that made the first ever detect detection of water vapor in the atmosphere of an exoplanet using what they call the Spitzer Space Telescope. Those same exact techniques are now foundational for the hunt for biosignatures. Now a biosignature is basically the chemical fingerprints of alien life. And in 2011 NASA gave him the exceptional Scientific Achievement medal. He also worked closely with what they call NEOWISE. This is the instrument that's essentially Earth's first line defense against an extinction level asteroid. I mean GR was a beast. But here's a thing about GR story that is really unusual. On December 20, 2025, about two months before the murder, GR called the police to report a trespasser on his property. Deputies arrested a 29 year old named Freddy Schneider, a local resident, carrying a loaded unregistered rifle. Schneider claimed that he was just heading to the post office. But the LA Times later confirmed that the post office was in the the exact opposite direction from both his house and Grosmare's. Snyder was booked on felony weapons charges. The judge in this case cited Snyder's lack of prior criminal record and as well as California's unnecessary prosecutions law basically ordered him to complete a gun safety course and then release him on his own recognizance. Two months later, on February 16, 2026, Grillmare was shot to death outside of his home. And while deputies responded, a second 911 call came in just from down the road. This was a carjacking. Snyder was arrested at the scene and charged with burglary, carjacking and murder. This time his bail was set just above $3 million. Now what's weird about this is that there is no known prior relationship between these two men and there's still no stated motive. Grillmare's widow in this case has publicly called this big conspiracy theory trying to tie these scientists together as absolute nonsense. And said husband would laugh if he were alive to see his name on this list. But there's actually one more vital detail about Grillmare's final months that reveal a piece of the puzzle that we definitely need to talk about. But we'll get into that a little bit later. And finally we get to the case that everyone is talking about that has really lit the match in this entire saga. And that is a story of Neil McCaslin, age 68, and as of February 27, 2026 is still missing. Now McCaslin is really interesting because he is a retired U.S. air Force major general, seventh commander of the Air Force Research Laboratory. I mean this guy is extremely important. He's an MIT, PhD in astronautical engineering, Harvard's Kennedy School. He's also the director of the Space Based Laser Project Office. He's Also the Vice Commander of the Space and Missile System Center. I mean, the list goes on and on, but then the two jobs that matter the most. From 2009 to 2011, McCaslin served as the Director of Special Programs at the Pentagon inside the office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics. Now what exactly does that mean? According to the Pentagon documentation, that office oversees the single most classified category of black projects within the Department of Defense. Now, immediately after that, from 2011 to 2013, he commanded the Air Force Research Laboratory at Wright Patterson. This is a $2.2 billion science and technology portfolio. We're talking advanced materials, directed energy, exotic propulsion. I mean, anything you can imagine that's being done in the United States. He probably had some insight on. Wright Patterson is also, per decades of UFO lore, the alleged home of the Roswell crash. This is the same base where During World War II, the United States openly reverse engineered captured Nazi technology. So when people describe McCaslin as, you know, this retired guy who commonly held clearances, this is kind of understating what they're actually saying. This is a man who many consider one of the gatekeepers of every black program in the Pentagon for years, even though in an official capacity, McCaslin simply held senior roles overseeing classified research. I mean, this guy was, was dangerous for the United States to have lost track of. So all of this background brings us to February 27, 2026. This is the day he goes missing. A repairman saw McCaslin at his home on Quail Run Court at the edge of the Kibola national forest around 10am his wife Susan left for a medical appointment at 11.10am and when she returned less than an hour later at 12:04, he was gone. At 3:07pm she reported him missing. In a newly released 911 call. Susan told the dispatcher that Neil appeared to have planned to not been found. He had changed his clothes and he didn't take a car or a bike. None of that was missing. He was basically on foot. She also told the dispatcher that both of them had been seeing a doctor for anxiety and sleeplessness and short term memory issues and that Neil had said that he did not want to live if his brain and body kept on deteriorating. Though she framed it just as him venting, not as having some type of actual depressive self harm ideation. He left behind his prescription glasses, his phone, which was switched off at the time, as well as his smartwatch. But what was missing from the home was very interesting. It was a Red backpack, his wallet and a.38 caliber revolver. Now, a silver alert went out the next day. This is kind of like an Amber Alert. And the research expanded to the FBI's Albuquerque field office, the Air Force Office of Special Investigations, New Mexico State Search and Rescue, Albuquerque Mountain Rescue, horseback teams, three types of search dogs, drones, helicopters, I mean, the works. They even went door to door canvassing roughly 700 homeowners. And despite living in an area saturated with doorbell cameras and home surveillance technology, no footage of him has surfaced. After weeks, the only physical evidence recovered was just a gray Air Force sweatshirt found about a mile east of his house. And testing couldn't even be done to confirm that it was actually his. But that's not even the whole picture. We're missing one massive essential detail. And this really adds a whole nother layer to McCaslin's disappearance. Now, I first saw this link come from Jesse Michaels episode on this topic and I think it's really important to highlight. In 2016, WikiLeaks published the hacked emails of John Podesta. This is Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman and you know, a very significant power player in D.C. politics that has been tied to a bunch of different conspiracy theories. Now buried in that dump is a message from Tom DeLonge. Yes, the Blink 182 musician who also co founded the to the stars Academy. Tom DeLonge has for a really long time been a proponent for disclosure and has been very much involved in the UAP UFO space. Now written in the subject line of this email was this General McCaslin. Now, in this email, DeLonge tells Podesta that McCaslin is publicly presenting himself as a skeptic on the UFO topic. But actually he isn't. He said that he had been working with McCaslin for months and reminded Podesta that the Roswell debris was shipped to the Wright Patterson laboratory. Yes, the exact lab that McCaslin ran. Now, years later, his wife, Susan McCaslin acknowledged that after the hack went public, her husband had less contact with Delon. Now this is an important detail because she didn't say that there was no contact. It was just less. And for what it's worth, Susan, his wife, isn't just, you know, a regular stay at home mom or a civilian. She's also a PhD astrophysicist, a colonel in the air Force Reserves, a former Nastra astronaut semifinalist with a career stint at Boeing as well as Raytheon. She's a very qualified individual in her own right. After Neil disappeared, she posted on Facebook that he had, quote, no special knowledge about ET bodies and debris from the Roswell crash stored at Wright Pat and suggested, seemingly half jokingly, that the best hypothesis was that aliens beamed him up to the mothership. Now, let's read that. Again, she didn't say the Roswell materials don't exist at Wright Patterson, which is kind of funny. It's almost like a, you know, a semi admission. She also said that her husband has no special knowledge of it, which is kind of a weird way to phrase it, don't you think? Also, just the nature of kind of her, you know, haphazard joking. You know, I mean, she is, again, a very established career woman that has connections to military. So perhaps, you know, she's not as phased by this, or maybe she knew that he was gonna go for a long walk and try not to be found, you know. But at the very least, the nature of her joking on this topic just feels a little strange for a woman whose husband of many years is completely missing. And there's also another unusual thing about McCaslin's story that takes the mystery of this story to a global scale. In The Summer of 2025, an Italian magazine called Lespresso published a report sourced from a confidential insider, claiming that President Trump was pulling control of these special access programs away from the Pentagon and moving them under the White House purview. The same report mentioned a report called Project Preserve Destiny, allegedly involving communications with non human intelligence housed under the NSA. Then, on the night of February 19, 2026, Trump goes onto his truth social platform that basically he was directing the Pentagon and other agencies to identify and release government files related to aliens and UAP. Now, eight days later, McCaslin vanishes. The timing of all of this is very interesting. While we can't say that Trump's announcement is the reason McCaslin disappeared, there are some things in this timeline that are pretty significant, right? I mean, you have this idea that Trump is pulling stuff away from the Pentagon, putting under, you know, White House purview that he's trying to release all these files. And perhaps this guy is sympathetic to the ufo, UAP cause and he knows all the secrets. Now, again, this is just drawing conclusions from what people have said online, and we can kind of discuss some of the theories later. But I think that is a really important detail to understand, is that the timeline here is very coincidental. Okay, now there are three more names left on this list. This next one comes on April 20, 2026. Ufologist David Wilcock, a figure in the Disclosure movement died by self deletion in the presence of law enforcement. It was reported that he fought a long battle with depression and financial difficulty. However, Congressman Tim Burchett publicly stated that he did not think that Wilcox death was a coincidence. Now this is one of the first times that we hear someone from the inside comment in favor of a possible ulterior motive. Now, the final two names on this list that are circulating are not researchers at all. And this could either make the connections on the list break down or expand it to mean something completely different than what we're expecting. And the first one is Anthony chavez. He was 78 years old and was a retired construction foreman who had at some point worked at Los Alamos. He disappeared in May of 2025 and remains missing to this day. Now, he was not a physicist. He did not handle classified materials. He worked in construction at a very important facility. The other one is Melissa Casillas, 53 years old and was an administrative assistant at Los Alamos, the same facility that Anthony Chavez was at, specifically doing office supply procurement, according to the Wall Street Journal. Now the timeline that her family later reconstructed is truly heartbre. She dropped her husband off at the Los Alamos gate early in the morning, told her daughter that she had forgotten her badge and would work from home. She dropped lunch off at her daughter's job at 12:30pm and by the afternoon doorbell, cameras caught her walking along State Road 518 toward the Carson National Forest. Inside her house, her daughter found her purse, wallet, keys, both of her cell phones. One of them was factory reset and a check she was supposed to cash next to a few dollar bills. Items missing from the house were pretty strange. A toothbrush and her hair iron. The family had been under severe financial stress after a settlement fell through. And as such, the New Mexico State Police said that their investigation indicates that she left of her own volition. Her family's own private investigator, this man named Thomas McNally, has publicly stated that there is no connection to UFOs or government assassination schemes. The inclusion of these two individuals specifically on the list is precisely the thing that skeptics point to when they talk data mining. But we're going to talk about that in just a second. And that's basically it. That is the list of missing or deceased people connected to all of these different government facilities. So far, 11 names over four years. And when you actually go through it, the picture gets weirder. At every turn. Nine of these cases have some type of answer and two cases stay completely open. No bodies recovered, no footage, and as of now, no explanation at all. And that should be where this episode ends. But it isn't. Because there's one detail that we deliberately skipped back when we were talking about Grillmare. One detail that on its own doesn't prove anything, but really recontextualizes what Grillmare might have been doing in the final months of his life. And that involves a telescope, a federal agency, and a lot of imagery that the public is not supposed to see. So in the final months of his life, Karl Grimaer wasn't just studying the stars like I said, he was helping test the single most powerful sky surveillance instrument ever built. This is the Vera Rubin Observatory. Now, according to investigations about Rubin from the Atlantic, every image it produces has to be approved by the Pentagon before any astronomer can see it. Now, our independent research wants to clarify something about that specific telescope. It says this US Observatories coordinate with defense agencies to avoid revealing classified satellites which can invol limited data filtering, not full Pentagon control of all the imagery. Now, nevertheless, a lot of the images that go through this, basically every image that goes through it has to be approved by the Pentagon. And by their own admission, they say it's to filter out the presence of sensitive satellites. Kind of makes sense. They're like, hey, we're doing this for, you know, national security. Now, the Vera Rubin produces over a thousand images a night, covering the entire southern hemisphere. On its first night alone, it revealed more than 2,000 previously undiscovered asteroids. The instant it captures a tile of the sky, that file is then encrypted, shipped to a secure facility in California, and then filtered. Anything that might depict a classified US satellite is going to get pulled out and then the rest is then released to astronomers worldwide so that people can actually make conclusions about this information. The stated reason for this is for, you know, protecting spy satellites, like I said. But here's where it gets spec. Astrophysicist Dr. Beatrice Villaruel has published research documenting tens of thousands of transient mirror like objects on astronomical plates from 1949 to 1957, before a single human made satellite was in orbit. Some of those plates came from the Palomar Observatory where Grill Mair worked. Now, we're not necessarily saying that Grillmayr saw something in the Rubin data, but a lot of people online are saying that if something were up there to see, Reuben would have definitely caught it. And then the Pentagon would decide whether it ever reached the public or not. What's up guys? 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I can't handle the uneasiness of the next day. And Cheers makes it all possible. Now let's get back to the show. Now here's what we're going to do to kind of lay down the rest of this. We're going to go through the five biggest theories that have been produced about what happened to these 11 people. And at the end of all five, we're going to have to go through which one we believe. And ultimately, I want to know what you guys think. And I would love if you commented below which theory you think is the most compelling of these five. So the first theory is the foreign adversary. This is a claim that there is a hostile foreign power, oftentimes posited as China or Iran or Russia, that is picking off American scientists with access to classified work. And the evidence for this theory is as follows. You have geographic clustering around Los Alamos, New Mexico, the jet propulsion labs in Southern California, as well as a historical precedent of Cold War era Soviet operations against a lot of United States nuclear researchers. Of course, you have House Oversight Chair James Comer calling this pattern a national security threat. And then Jesse Walker in the United States of Paranoia identifies this as the classic external enemy framework. Now, there is a potential issue with this theory. Science writer Mick west has pointed out that roughly 700,000 people hold top secret clearances in the United States, specifically related to aerospace and the nuclear sector. Now, 11 names that we talked about, they would just be below statistical noise. So the first theory is that perhaps, you know, you have a foreign government that wants to either get rid of or recruit these people, and they're coming in with COVID agents to either take them out, kidnap them, make them disappear, and take them out of the United States arsenal of intelligence. Now, of course, there is theory two, and this one is very popular. And this is about UFOs. This is the claim that these scientists knew something maybe about recovered craft, maybe about anti gravity propulsion or exotic materials or reverse engineering that someone or some government wanted buried. And of course, the evidence here is, you know, very strong. As we've talked about McCaslin's direct documented contact with Tom DeLonge and the to the Stars Academy in these podesta emails that indicate that he's somewhat of a sympathizer to the uap. Cause you have Reza's work on Mondaloy, this super alloy born from the very same AFRL material portfolio that according to the UFOs has long been alleged to be the home of Roswell metallurgy research. That perhaps she was one of the people that reverse engineered this Roswell craft to create some type of advanced weapon system for the United States, as well as Amy Eskridge and her anti gravity work, as well as her video talking about directed energy weapons shortly before she passed away. People also point to the death of David Wilcock, who as we know is a very famous UFO researcher who dies by self deletion. Once again, sorry to use these lame words, but we'll say self deletion for YouTube and he dies during this moment of, you know, major disclosure pushes and a lot of people wanting to see UFOs and aliens basically disclosed to the public. Now, constitutional attorney Danny Sheehan and friend of the show, has publicly claimed on the Third Eyedrops podcast that there's basically a covert association of 24 retired high ranking defense and intelligence officials who are secretly working to push the UAP program back into transparency so that everyone can see what's actually going on. And it seems like McCaslin would fit that profile exactly right. He has, you know, high ranking government clearances, is retired, and is sympathetic to the UAP movement as reported by these Podesta emails. Now, there is another issue with this theory as well. The theory supposedly weakens under the weight of inclusion. So a retired construction foreman, an office supply administrative assistant, a pharmaceutical chemical biologist are all on this list with a bunch of physicists and people that work in rocket propulsion and, you know, reverse engineering and metallurgy. So whatever UAP knowledge they supposedly possessed has never really been articulated as well, even by theorists. Now is it possible that this list was compiled with a bunch of people that are connected to the UAP movement and are pushing for disclosure and then also supplemented with, you know, random people who went missing or died that have nothing to do with it in order to muddy the list? It's possible. Maybe that is a psyop in and of itself, but once again, it hasn't really been stated explicitly what they knew, only just that they maybe knew something. So I think it's possible we'll keep that theory in the mix. Okay, so we have a foreign adversary, and then of course we have the ufo, UAP cover up. And now there's a third theory and this is some type of deep state cleanup coming from within the United States government. Now this claim is that a US intelligence or contractor faction is quietly eliminating people who are about to whistleblow on some type of classified program. So, so these theories, and the people behind these theories will often cite this evidence. They'll say McCaslin's unusual disappearance, right? His phone and glasses left behind, only taking a gun and some boots. Trump's truth social post talking about UAP disclosure just eight days before McCaslin disappears. A counter read of the stage disappearance logic, you know, this idea that if you wanted a self deletion to look real, you would take a weapon and then leave the trackable electronics. And this is exactly what happened. So these people would suggest that McCaslin's disappearance is, you know, connected to some type of fake self deletion, you know, kind of presentation. Another piece of evidence in this theory points to McCaslin's post retirement roles at DBE Consulting alongside former DARPA Deputy Director James Tagnalia. And this was at Riverside Research and at Applied Technology Associates. This was not exactly a guy who was fully retired from all type of government work and just, you know, gardening. He was working with contractors and outside teams. Still looking at a lot of his very sensitive information as well as looking at the historical precedent from MK Ultra and the Church Committee revelations that shows that the US Government has been meddling in the affairs of, you know, the private sector and oftentimes doing some type of experimentation or manipulation of the public. Now there is an issue with this theory. This cleanup theory of the deep state predicts, you know, quiet deaths, things like accidents, natural causes. But this list includes a mass shooter's rampage in the death of Nuno Loureiro, this arrested carjacker in the case of Grosmare, a publicly documented grief driven drowning that is, you know, in the case of Dr. Thomas, as well as the publicly ruled self deletion of a woman with chronic pain in the case of Amy Eskridge. Now, now an effective intelligence operation arguably wouldn't choose the types of over the top methods in order to eliminate someone. They would just do something very quiet, very obscure and something that could easily be explained away or glossed over and perhaps it wouldn't include a custodian or a construction worker or a procurement clerk of documents inside some government lab. So again, none of these theories are perfect and there are, you know, evidence as well as counteracting theories for all of them. But that is the third one. Moving on to the fourth one and this one is a little bit out there. This is the claim that some of these scientists were targeted with directed energy weapons. So we're talking microwave, acoustic or laser weapons, either by a foreign or domestic actor. And the thematic links here are connected to Havana Synchronous Syndrome. And of course, our friend Mark Paul Meropoulos, former CIA operative who came on the show, talked about his own experience with what he claims is Havana Syndrome. And for anyone that doesn't know, in brief, it is the effects of enduring some type of directed energy weapon that basically comes at you that you can't really identify where it came from or what it is, just that you experience vertigo, nausea, long term health effects. And it typically happens in places that, you know, seem to be hostile to the United States interest. Now, many people have theorized that the United States government is actually doing this to their own agents in this specific theory. And the evidence that they cite is, you know, Amy Eskridge, she's one of the main, you know, principal people in this theory. And of course we have her own video just recorded months before her death, explicitly attributing burns on her hand to guided energy weapons. Now the issue with this theory is that Eskridge is the only person in the list who ever invoked this idea of energy weapons. And there's no medical, physical or forensic evidence actually linking these directed energy weapons to any of the other 10 cases. Now it is possible that, you know, perhaps Dr. Reza was hit by some type of, you know, you know, some type of weapon that made her, you know, lose sense of space or time and made her lose sense of her faculties and as a result wandered off while on a hike because she lost, you know, control of her active memory as well as the other cases, you know, McCaslin, who perhaps was hit with some type of weapon that caused him to, you know, develop some type of dementia related symptoms. He's already dealing with short term memory loss. And that could be, you know, some type of indicator that there's a long term directed energy weapon being, you know, affecting him specifically in his home during this time period that perhaps his wife wasn't affected by. Again, this is a theory that's a little bit out there, but in the interest of being holistic on this topic, it's worth bringing up up. Now there is another theory that is kind of a counter theory and that basically says this entire thing is a textbook case of what they call apophenia. Now this is the human tendency to perceive meaningful patterns in unrelated events. Now this would be the skeptics approach to what's going on. And the evidence in this would, you know, look at the cases and how they span four years in multiple states with so many different causes of death. Michael Shermer of the Skeptic has described the list's methodology as, you know, just scraping through bios to find any thin collection. The writer Benjamin Radford calls it mystery mongering data mining. Joseph Rogers, a deputy director at CSIS in the project on nuclear issues, has pointed out that if these people had all worked on a single project or a single weapons system or even in a single lab, the pattern would be very suspicious. But they didn't. Mick west has said that the base rate analysis dismantles the entire statistical premise that you have hundreds of thousands of people with security clearances in these specific fields. So 11 of them dying or going missing within a four year period isn't statistically significant at all. Now, of course there's an issue with this theory that FBI and Congress as well as the President himself are reviewing these cases anyway. So even if the theory is wrong, federal engagement is a fact that does demand its own explanation. So these are the five theories. Each are partially defensible, each are partially broken. And that right there is kind of the issue, right? Because you know, every one of these five answers, whether it's a foreign adversary or a ufo, UAP cover up, or a deep state cleanup, trying to guard, you know, American secrets or directed energy weapons, or just, you know, a statistical, you know, anomaly that just happens, you know, some type of strange coincidence, it gets you part of the way there, but none of them on their own actually give you the full story. There's no one single theory that explains all 11 names. So what you're left with is a list that many people online say has no pattern, that there's nothing, you know, significant about this, but then is being actively reviewed by a federal agency that is stated to not review things that aren't patterns. So which is it? Is it a pattern or is it not a pattern? Because now we're getting all this conflicting information. And I mean, that analysis comes from CBS News, the most institutional, you know, broad scale media company maybe in America. So five answers that each hold part of the puzzle and two names at the center of it that still are not even closed. Which brings us back to the question that we asked at the very beginning. At what point does a string of coincidences stop being a coincidence? Once you see Dr. Reza smiling at her friend on the trail, one frame before she just vanishes forever. And once you see McCaslin's glasses on the nightstand while 700 doorbell cameras somehow don't see him walking out the front door. Which is just crazy. I mean, Amy Eskridge, 30 days from the end of her life, pointing with a shaky camera to burns on her hands, talking about the guided energy weapons that, you know, injured her. I mean, this whole story is just weird. Specifically, McCaslin and Dr. Reza. Right? Dr. Reza, the woman who built the super alloy that replaced the Russian rocket engine. Just vanishes off a trail in broad daylight. Nothing found except a beanie and a visor. It's just weird. And then not too far away from that event, a man who once sat at the gate of every black budget program in the Pentagon walked out of a quiet Albuquerque neighborhood eight days after a presidential UAP disclosure announcement. And a full scale federal search hasn't found a single frame of footage of him walking away. And of course the astronomer who most likely would have noticed something off about the Pentagon approved data was just shot dead on his porch at 6, 10 in the morning. I mean, it's just strange. And maybe it's a coincidence. I'm not suggesting that it's one way or the other. It's just weird. And maybe it's the kind of thing that we only recognize when it's too late. And the scary thing is that, that the only people in a position to actually tell us what it is are the ones who decide, you know, what the most powerful telescope on earth is or isn't allowed to show the public or if it's some type of deep state cover up, they're not even really investigating it in the first place. And this list hasn't closed, the review hasn't ended, and the very two names at the center of it all still have not been found. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a brief synopsis of this current Saga of the 11 missing scientists. I mean, it's just weird, right? I think the most significant ones are Dr. Reza and you know, General McCaslin. The, you know, of course, very connected to a lot of government ops. I feel two ways about this. On the one hand, I recognize that I think some of the names on this list might be statistical noise. I think like two things are happening. You have statistical noise where you know, sometimes a scientist or a researcher is going to pass away. Sometimes under crazy circumstances like a carjacking gone wrong and it's super tragic. Sometimes under, you know, more normal circumstances, like some type of natural death or something like that. And in the wake of weird stuff happening, they'll also get grouped in to this bigger picture. And that might be a mistake that those people actually don't belong on that list. So perhaps it's only four scientists that are missing or dead in a suspicious way, but even that alone is still significant. You know, going back to my first point, I remember when there was a train crash in East Palestine, Ohio. Do you remember this? Was it Ohio or Pennsylvania? I'll tell you right now, I think it was Ohio. It was a big deal in the news. It was like this massive train crash, and everyone saw it and it was, you know, front page, and it was a big deal. Do you have it there? East Palestine, Ohio, trained the real men. It was a massive story. And then if you'll remember, in these subsequent weeks, there were tons of stories hitting the front page about these train derailments. And people were like, what's going on? Is this some type of foreign threat? Is there some type of bad actor that is, you know, causing American infrastructure to fall apart? Is this the result of Biden and Buttigieg that aren't doing their job as transport secretary? Like, what's going on? And it seemed to me in that case that this was what they called the Bering Meinhof frequency illusion. This is the thing where, like, you're gonna buy, like a red Ford, and right as you're thinking about buying it, all of a sudden you notice red Fords everywhere. And it's the brain's ability to basically see things or connect patterns when you're looking for them. So, of course, if you're seeing front page news being about these train derailments, all of a sudden, any train derailment that happens is gonna get put up on the list. But if you look at the data of train derailments in that window, there was nothing statistically significant about it. It's like every year, you know, what is. Like, I always make up numbers, but, like, 20 train derailments happen in the United States. And so whenever they happened after the big one, all of a sudden those made front page news. Now, I'm not saying that's what's happening with these missing scientists, but I'm saying it's possible that some of them might be because of this, that, you know, let's say today, heaven forbid, there's some scientists that, you know, dies in his sleep at 80 years old and he's connected to the Pentagon, he's going to get added to the list. But his death Might have just been completely coincidental and circumstantial. There might be nothing there. But now, as I was saying before, if you just have four of them that are weird, that alone is worth something. So I think in the interest of being skeptical, but also curious, I want to like shrink the list down to like four of them. Right. I think, for example, Nuno Lorero, the Portuguese scientist that was killed at Brown. That's a weird story. It's very strange to me. Like there's this mass shooting at Brown that's connected to, you know, this disgruntled guy that wants to, you know, like, enact revenge and then also kills this guy that's like working on like plasma research. It's just weird. And then you have Graumeare, who's working with this super secretive, highly, highly important telescope that's taking these massive images of space. And all of a sudden his death is super strange where like this guy comes to the house and shoots him with like no explanation, no motive after he already was on the property before. That one's just weird. And the fact that this guy's so connected to a high profile telescope that is connected to the Pentagon, that one strikes me as weird. Right? It's just like super random freak accident and connected to something very sensitive. And then of course you have Reza and Casland. Everyone else I kind of brush away. Like, with all due respect to Amy Eskridge, it seems like perhaps she's suffering from some type of mental episode or something like that. And you know, her death seems to kind of correlate with that. That now again, I don't know if that's the case, all respect to her and her family, but it doesn't strike me as significant. And then as well as, you know, the people that were working as construction and you know, sort of clerical sort of paperwork within Los Alamos, maybe there's a connection. So the four that I'm really circling on are Lorero, the MIT plasma physicist who was so established Gromare, looking through these telescopes, connected to the Pentagon. McCaslin, obviously connected to every Pentagon, you know, Black program ever. And then of course, Reza, who is, you know, basically reverse engineering this nickel alloy that's able to, you know, be used in these spacecraft. Those are the most mysterious with the intersection of the most significant research. And that I think is where the focus should be. I think that is where, you know, it seems like there's something happening. I mean, going missing on a trail, someone that's in like pretty good shape to never be Found again, no trace of their body. I mean that's just so strange. So which theory are you going with again? I think it's a mixture. I think that there's statistical noise, so there's. That's partially true and that some of these people are getting added to the list that are, I think are being done unfairly. But then I think, I think like either like deep state cover up slash UAP cover up. So like McCaslin's death is or shouldn't say death. Sorry. McCaslin's disappearance is the most interesting because by all accounts he was like in pretty good shape. You know, like he was of like fairly sound mind. Like he was pissed about this like chronic pain and stuff that he was dealing with. But it's also like pretty weird that he's dealing with like, you know, this is like a military dude, he's like fairly young, of course he's like in the 60s, but like, like he's all of a sudden dealing with like short term memory loss and brain fog and inability to sleep. I'm like, that just seems kind of strange to me. And then he goes away and just leaves and like his phone is there and his smartwatch, his phone's powered off also like that is just so strange. And the fact that he's in the Podesta emails connected to Tom Delong talking about UAPs being according to Tom Delong, sympathetic to the entire UAP movement, it's just all very strange. And that is kind of where I'm like, I wonder if his is connected to, hey, they're going to release some stuff about UAPS and whether that is like, you know, the existence of disclosure. Just like full on, like, yeah, we're going to put all the files out or that's like, hey, we have like reverse engineered stuff and we have state secrets and this guy's going to go be a whistleblower. The McCaslin thing I think is like a massive red flag that should absolutely be researched further. The Reza one is also very interesting, maybe to a lesser degree, but just the circumstances of her disappearance are so strange. Grill mere I put like third where I'm like that one might just kind of be like a freak accident, but still the fact that he's seeing signatures and is able to like see what's going on, I mean, yeah, his is just so strange. So I'm like really? It's Reza and McCaslin that are difficult to assess and it wouldn't shock me if there was some type of deep state thing going on where the government wanted them kind of pulled away from the public eye. Didn't want them to have the ability to speak out. Especially in a time like this where there's geopolitical events plus UAP disclosure stuff and if they just have access to these sensitive materials. And in his retirement, he's like on the board of these massive companies. I think it's very possible for our government or another government to see them as hostile. So I'm going to give the most unsatisfying answer of all. But it's kind of all the theories, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know, I, like, I. We know that directed energy weapons exist, right? Right. Like we've seen like these crowd dispersion, you know, machines where they're able to like blast sound waves or you know, things like that to like disperse crowds. Like, and according to people in the crowds, like, yeah, I just heard this crazy loud sound and like I felt like was vibrating. Had to get out of there. It's like, yeah, it's a directed energy weapon. So we know that these things exist. Now, were they being used on McAslin to like, kind of make him go crazy? Possible. Like again, I don't want to jump off the deep end, but like possible. Was it used to make him go crazy while he's, you know, potentially going to whistleblow or like leak some state secrets relating to national security or to the UAP topic or to both. It's possible. Sounds like it was very possible with Eskridge too, right? I mean, again, her case, with all due respect, seems a little bit more like someone dealing with a mental health episode, but it is possible. Again, I'm not going to discount her, her lived experience, if that's what she says. I mean, all respect to her, it's very possible. I'll give her room on that. Now, is it also possible that other people are added to this list and that there is just coincidence? Sure. I mean, is it possible that, I mean, that the UAP thing is also connected to like a foreign government thing? It's possible. I'm like, I would love for it to be a foreign adversary, but why? It's a conspiracy theorist in me that likes that theory, but it doesn't seem applicable because we. Are we spying on other people just to figure out their alien problems? I feel like we'd team up on that. Well, the idea here is that if there is a country or government that has aliens, you know, or like non human recoveries, let's say like David Grusch has said he has said as much, either in private skiffs or publicly at Congress, that the United States is in possession of recovered aircraft and non human biologics. Those are his words. So is it possible the United States has this information and that they have this tech and that they're reverse engineering it to create advanced weapon systems? That's the idea. And so if we have it, is it possible there's a crash site somewhere in Beijing and China's reverse engineering and now it's simultaneously national security as well as the UAP issue in one, and that these things are both connected? It's possible. I mean, I've even just seen a headline recently that there are a bunch of Chinese scientists that are also going missing. Now, is that connected to some type of bigger, grander conspiracy, you know, relating to national security and stuff, or is that just another instance of, you know, statistical inferencing where people are kind of putting things together and out of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of scientists, a couple of them are going to die a year and you can start tying their threads together again? It's possible. I leave room for all possible options, but I don't know. What do you guys think? Do you feel like there's anything that I missed or anything that I skipped over in talking about this topic? If there's anything that you feel like I did to not serve the episode with, you know, do justice, by all means, drop a comment. I would love to know. If there's any information, just on a personal level, I will read them because I just want to know what's going on. Like, I'm not an expert in this field. I'm just a comedian with a WI FI connection that's interested in diving into crazy stories. So if there's anything I missed, by all means, let me know. Furthermore, what do you think? Which of these theories you think is most compelling? Or is there another theory that we didn't even consider that is just staring at us in the face that could, you know, tie all this together? I would love to know. Please drop your own theories or comment. Which theory you think is the most compelling down below? And furthermore, are there going to be more scientists that go missing? Almost certainly. Like that's gonna happen. There's going to be scientists within, you know, the next seven, eight months that are either going to pass away, they're going to get murdered, they might self delete, or they're going to go missing. Now will it make sense with what we have here on this list? Sort of. You know what I Mean, like there's going to be someone that goes and you're going to be like, well, there's a lot of evidence pointing to the fact that this is a pattern. And then there's going to be additional evidence that's like. It's kind of weird. If it is like a high ranking government person that's connected with a tip or arrow or you know, pushing hard for the UAP disclosure movement or is connected to like very sensitive weapon system that has like really high ranking clearance, that's where I'm going to be like, we got something. But if it's just another low level person that's like working like in the front office or you know, tangentially create, you know, connected to like biology, then I'm not gonna jump on it right away. But I would love to know what you guys think. What are the theories you like, is there any details I missed? Is there a theory that I completely missed? And then, you know, of course, what happens next? Please drop a comment below. I would love to know what you think. Furthermore, if you would like to join the secret society, this is the camp society. You can go to patreon.com camp gagnon. That is the, the inner crypt. That is where we share all of our dastardly secrets and we all just, you know, hang out. You're gonna get ad free episodes. So if you're one of the people that's annoyed by the ads on the episodes, look, I get it, we gotta pay the bill somehow. But you can circumvent all of that just for the price of a cup of coffee per month. 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We do that twice a week, every single week, so make sure you subscribe. Come check me out on the road. Mark Gagnon live. If you want to see me do stand up comedy, I'm going on a bunch of dates at the end of the year and I will see you guys at the show. God bless you all and I'll see you next time.