Camp Gagnon: "Authorized Account Of How FBI Undercover Agents Actually Work"

Host: Mark Gagnon
Guest: Charlie Spillers (Former Undercover Agent, Prosecutor, Author of "Confessions of an Undercover Agent")
Release Date: September 9, 2025

Episode Overview

Mark Gagnon sits down with Charlie Spillers for an eye-opening, unfiltered dive into the world of undercover law enforcement—from drug stings in the Deep South to harrowing close calls involving biker gangs, organized crime, and racially charged situations. Spillers, a master storyteller, shares riveting tales from his six years undercover in Baton Rouge, turning true crime into living history and exposing both the heroism and human cost of undercover work.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Close Calls & Maintaining Cover

• (01:25) Spillers recounts his many near-exposures as an undercover agent, highlighting the perpetual danger and anxiety:

  • The reality of being recognized by past arrestees during deals.
  • Improvising explanations and making fast exits when under suspicion.
  • The cumulative psychological toll: sleepless nights, constant report writing, and trying to decompress (“You go home…start writing reports…try to decompress…then you’re back out again.” — Charlie, 05:20).

Quote:

“When I left that place, just like when I left other close calls, when I left that place, I went and got my car. I took a deep breath and I cranked up the car. And as I drove away, I said what I usually say after close calls: Damn. Damn, damn, damn.” (05:04)

2. Practical Ethics of Going Undercover

• (06:27 - 08:22) Discussing boundaries: what to do when offered drugs or weapons in the field and how to avoid using them to maintain credibility.
• Excuses used to avoid “partaking”: probation officer might drug test; applying for a job that requires drug testing; “I just sell it, I don’t use it.”
• The life-and-death calculus: if taking drugs means survival, you do what you have to.

Quote:

“If shove comes to shove, and the only way to save your life would be to actually take some drugs in front of someone, I guess you would save your life, but I never was, thankfully, in that situation.” (07:10)

3. Legendary Encounters: The Papa Ku Cough Syrup Incident

• (08:25 - 18:37) Charlie tells the outrageous story of faking taking (then actually swallowing) massive gulps of cough syrup laced with ephedrine, leading to a late-night ER visit and an eventual gunpoint bust with an unloaded gun—after throwing away his bullets out of safety.

Quote:

“So I finally take it...I go to a motel...and I wake up, face flushed...My heart’s beating real fast. And all of a sudden I feel lightning shooting down to my balls. Oh no!” (11:01)

• He successfully arrests Papa Ku at gunpoint (with an empty gun), only to later discover Papa Ku’s girlfriend had a loaded revolver ready in the car.

4. Stories of Courage & Sacrifice: The Sarah Neal Incident

• (19:42 - 36:09) Spillers tells the gripping story of agent Sarah Neal, who braved gunfire to drag her wounded partner out of a crossfire during a heroin bust gone bad—then, after tending him and arresting the shooter in the ER, spent two days in the same bloody clothes.

Quote:

“Sarah Neal jumped out of the car, ran around the front of the car holding a Model 60...she saw the violator...she snapped off a shot...then gets to Jerry, grabs him under fire, tugs him to her side of the road, tumble[s] down the embankment...” (22:38)

• The aftermath: the suspects were caught and later escaped prison, putting Sarah and her partner into a state of high alert.

5. Principles, Ethics, and the Integrity of Law Enforcement

• (36:09 - 68:46) Spillers expands on the importance of ethical standards and personal integrity in undercover work and prosecution.
  • The stories of agents saving suspects’ lives moments after gunfights.
  • The need for diversity and the challenges faced by pioneers like Shirlene Anderson, who became both a lifesaver and the first Black female police chief in Jackson, MS.

Quote:

“If somebody’s a bad cop, he’s not a cop, he’s a criminal pretending to be a cop.” (72:17)

• Discusses the founding ethos of the Mississippi Bureau of Narcotics, influenced by “legendary” director Ken Fairley, who held agents to the highest standards—firing someone for taking even a worthless magazine from a crime scene.

6. Building Federal Cases: Puzzle Pieces and Ingenuity

• (85:37 - 95:39) Charlie demystifies how intricate prosecutions are built—for instance, tracing cocaine shipments using a Whataburger receipt and matching staple marks on drug packaging to documents found in a suspect's office.

Quote:

“Two key pieces of evidence in that conspiracy case was a small hamburger receipt and two staples.” (95:06)

7. Voodoo & True Detective: Fact and Fiction in the Deep South

• (97:04 - 101:56) After being asked if he ever encountered the kind of voodoo and superstition seen in “True Detective,” Spillers recalls a Mississippi drug case where a trafficker used “voodoo powder” to reassure his crew (and attempts to “curse” police and judges were taken seriously by some).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the daily tension of undercover life:
  "I had no idea how many close calls I had until I started remembering and writing about them." (01:25)

• On the aftermath of a bust:
  "You're not watching TV, you're trying to just decompress and then finally go to sleep." (05:20)

• On the morality of law enforcement:
  "Every person's life is important, even the worst person's life is important and should be treated humanely." (46:37)

• Charlie's rule:
  "You want them to say, that's the most honest man I ever met in my life...Always conduct yourself that way, even when you don't think anybody's ever looking." (66:08)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:25 – Close calls in undercover work
• 06:27 – Handling being offered drugs or guns undercover
• 08:25 – The Papa Ku incident and cough syrup story
• 19:42 – Story of Sarah Neal’s courage under fire
• 36:09 – Ethics, dedication, and diversity in law enforcement
• 46:37 – Law enforcement’s emphasis on humane treatment, insight from Iraq experience
• 57:28 – Necessity of diversity in undercover teams; race/gender barriers broken
• 65:02 – The magazine incident (ethics of evidence handling)
• 85:37 – Building conspiracy cases via receipts and staples
• 97:04 – Voodoo, superstition, and reality of Deep South crime
• 101:41 – Voodoo curses in real court cases

Episode Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is candid, gritty, and deeply human, illuminating the reality of walking a tightrope between law and lawlessness. Spillers’s stories are both hair-raising and profoundly humbling, often mixing gallows humor with honest vulnerability about the psychological demands of undercover life. For anyone interested in law enforcement, ethics, or the true workings of American justice, this episode offers rare, invaluable insights—and a portrait of law enforcement rooted in principle and sacrifice.

For more gripping stories, check out Charlie Spillers’ book, "Confessions of an Undercover Agent," or upcoming speaking engagements referenced in the episode.