Epstein’s DARKEST Secret Wasn’t The Island | Nick Bryant

Summary

Camp Gagnon Podcast — Detailed Episode Summary

Episode Title: Epstein’s DARKEST Secret Wasn’t The Island | Nick Bryant

Host: Mark Gagnon
Guest: Nick Bryant (Investigative Journalist, Author of The Franklin Scandal)
Date: February 13, 2026

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Overview

This episode focuses on the explosive revelations from the latest Jeffrey Epstein email/files release—over 3 million documents—shedding new, disturbing light on Epstein’s network, operations, coded language, and alleged co-conspirators. Mark Gagnon is joined by veteran journalist Nick Bryant, known for his early and relentless reporting on sex trafficking rings and as the journalist who first published Epstein’s black book and flight logs. The conversation analyzes the contents of these files, their implications, systemic blockers to justice, and the broader societal issues around elite-driven trafficking.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nick Bryant’s Background and Role

• Nick Bryant has reported on sex trafficking for over 23 years, beginning with the Franklin Scandal in Nebraska (an international network).
• He started covering Epstein in the early 2000s and published Epstein’s “black book,” connecting dots long before mainstream attention (01:38–02:46).
• Quote — “The mainstream media looked the other way for years, [but] I stayed on the case.” — Nick Bryant (00:20)

2. Being Targeted By Epstein’s Network

• Nick’s name appears in several of Epstein’s emails, warning the inner circle about his reporting.
• Details on how Sarah Kellen (Maxwell's right hand) and others circulated his picture and warned about his investigations. Surveillance by the network was tight. (03:40–07:14)
• Quote — “They passed around my picture... I hope they got my good side.” — Nick Bryant (06:04)

3. Categories & Themes in the Leaked Emails

• Bryant has cataloged emails on his site, grouping them as follows:
  • “Horrors”
  • “Pizza, Shrimp, Muffins” (coded language)
  • “Celebrity”
  • “Transhumanism and Cloning”
  • “FDA, BCI, Mossad”
• The files reveal code words, black market babies, celebrity/political connections, and transhumanist interests. (08:52–09:06, 30:31)

4. Black Market Babies, Cloning, and Eugenics

• Repeated references to “breeders,” harvesting ova, “baby editing,” and cloning. Examples include accounts of women allegedly used to produce children for black market purposes at Zorro Ranch (09:13–14:03).
• Parallel to disturbing real-world studies (“Extreme Abuse Survey”) and accounts of organized breeding in trafficking (16:23—17:35).
• Quote — “It wasn’t a foreign idea to me that there are women used as breeders.” — Nick Bryant (09:54)

5. Age of Victims and Media Cover-up

• Victims as young as 7–11 identified—contrary to the public narrative (most say “youngest was 13/14”). Multiple independent sources and therapists corroborate under-10 victimization (24:58–25:26).
• Media and law enforcement rendered complicit by repeatedly downplaying severity, using “agency” arguments to muddy waters (25:26–26:14).
• Quote — “The media has been just so disingenuous regarding Jeffrey Epstein.” — Nick Bryant (22:06)

6. Coded Language: “Shrimp,” “Pizza,” “Grape Soda”

• Emails feature cryptic language: “some are like shrimp—throw away the head and keep the body,” “aquarium full of girls,” “pizza and grape soda.” (41:21–45:40)
• Unclear whether these reference faces/bodies or something darker (dismemberment or code for children/drugs). The term “pizza” ties into broader “Pizzagate” theories. (43:48–46:45)
• Quote — “You’ve got a billionaire and a top urologist arranging pizza and grape soda? It seems off.” — Mark Gagnon (50:01)

7. Celebrity and Elite Involvement

• Deepak Chopra, Prince Andrew’s ex-wife (Fergie), and Leon Black are name-checked. Deepak’s email: “God is a construct, cute girls are real” (51:10–51:29).
• DiCaprio’s agent sourcing foreign deals through Epstein (59:41–61:18).
• Leon Black described as unusually close to Epstein; serious allegations of sadistic abuse in emails (22:06–24:39).
• Quote — “Would it surprise me that Leon Black is sadistic to girls? No, I wouldn’t.” — Nick Bryant (23:39)

8. Alleged Blackmail & Systemic Protection

• Epstein’s homes were wired for audiovisual blackmail—control through kompromat.
• Mainstream media narratives on why elites gave Epstein extraordinary favors (160mil+ from Leon Black) are ridiculed as laughable (27:22–28:07).
• FBI/DOJ publicly claim zero co-conspirators, seen as a “Maginot line” shielding the powerful (24:05–24:29).
• Quote: “If they start indicting co-conspirators, where do you stop?” — Nick Bryant (23:51)

9. Government & Law Enforcement Complicity

• Bryant details the enduring, bipartisan cover-up—from Bush II, Obama, Trump, Biden (29:54–31:28).
• The DOJ redacts names of perps against the intent of the Epstein Files Transparency Act (38:00–39:06).
• Quote: “The cover-up started under Bush II… went through Obama, Trump, Biden.” — Nick Bryant (29:54)

10. Systemic Trauma and Social Impact

• Exploration of the lifelong trauma faced by survivors, compounded by legal/psychological barriers to justice, leading to addiction and recidivism—“damaged goods” narrative used to destroy their credibility (75:03–77:50; 85:15–87:14).
• Bryant reflects on the immense scope: CDC estimates (conservatively) 25% of underage girls and 5% of underage boys have been abused, translating to 50 million+ people in the US alone (85:15–87:03).

11. Obstacles to Justice and Whistleblowers

• NDAs, the Epstein Victim Compensation Fund, psychological warfare, and direct threats all suppress whistleblowers.
• Maria Farmer reported Epstein in 1996, but authorities stalled for over a decade (91:06–91:35).
• Internal DOJ documents and the Ken Starr memo evidence deliberate protection and interference from the highest levels (93:43–95:15).

12. Who Is the Next Epstein?

• There are always multiple protected networks operating—the “next Epstein” exists, but is difficult to identify. The system enables the rise of successor operators through orphanages and institutions like Boys Town (90:16–101:07).
• Quote: “At any given time there are various Epstein’s trafficking children that are protected.” — Nick Bryant (90:16)

13. Epstein’s Origins and Intelligence Links

• Suspicious early trajectory: hired to teach at elite Dalton School by Donald Barr (ex-OSS, father of AG William Barr); then catapulted to Bear Stearns (BCCI links). Potentially groomed as an asset or caught and “turned” much like Franklin Scandal figures (103:37–109:55).
• Blackmail as an intentional tool of statecraft; government agencies using “private citizens” like Epstein to carry out black ops (111:44–112:52).
• Quote: “There is a dark, malignant corner of our intelligence that employs people like Epstein.” — Nick Bryant (112:41)

14. Recent Developments and Political Theater

• Congressional grilling of Pam Bondi and DOJ on why files are still redacted, failure to prosecute co-conspirators. Ted Lieu and Thomas Massie call bluff, referencing internal emails and redaction strategies (113:39–120:00).
• Quote: “There are over 1,000 sex trafficking victims and you have not held a single man accountable. Shame on you.” — Rep. Ted Lieu (116:10)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [06:04] Nick Bryant: “They passed around my picture... I hope they got my good side.”
• [09:54] Nick Bryant: “Some women are used as breeders.”
• [22:06] Nick Bryant: “The media has been just so disingenuous regarding Jeffrey Epstein.”
• [23:39] Nick Bryant: “Would it surprise me that Leon Black is sadistic to girls? No, I wouldn’t.”
• [23:51] Nick Bryant: “If they start indicting co-conspirators, where do you stop?”
• [29:54] Nick Bryant: “The cover-up started under Bush II… went through Obama, Trump, Biden.”
• [50:01] Mark Gagnon: “You’ve got a billionaire and a top urologist arranging pizza and grape soda? It seems off.”
• [90:16] Nick Bryant: “At any given time there are various Epstein’s trafficking children that are protected.”
• [112:41] Nick Bryant: “There is a dark, malignant corner of our intelligence that employs people like Epstein.”
• [116:10] Rep. Ted Lieu: “There are over 1,000 sex trafficking victims and you have not held a single man accountable. Shame on you.”

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Key Timestamps

• 00:00–03:40 — Intro & Nick’s background as a relentless investigator.
• 03:40–07:29 — Bryant targeted in internal Epstein emails.
• 08:52–09:06 — Email categories: horrors, code words, celebrities, etc.
• 09:13–14:03 — Black market babies, breeders, and cloning.
• 22:06–24:39 — Leon Black’s sadistic abuse & public cover-up.
• 24:58–26:29 — Youngest victims, media complicit in dampening severity.
• 41:21–45:40 — Coded language: “shrimp,” “pizza,” “grape soda.”
• 51:10–51:29 — Deepak Chopra: “God is a construct. Cute girls are real.”
• 75:03–77:50 — Survivor trauma, credibility, and legal obstacles.
• 85:15–87:03 — The staggering scale of CSA in the US.
• 93:43–95:15 — Ken Starr email, DOJ/FBI deliberate cover-up.
• 113:39–120:00 — Congressional confrontation: redactions & lack of prosecutions.
• 121:22–122:42 — Call to action (EpsteinJustice.com, fighting for justice).

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Tone & Language

• Direct, sometimes darkly humorous (“I hope they got my good side…”).
• Acutely skeptical of mainstream narratives and government statements.
• Deeply empathetic toward survivors and angry at systemic protection of elites.
• Not afraid to explore morbid, taboo, or “conspiratorial” aspects—yet balances with journalistic agnosticism.

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Final Takeaways & How Listeners Can Act

• The files confirm and expand on the horror, perversity, and reach of Epstein’s network.
• There is overwhelming evidence of systemic cover-up, complicity, and ongoing networks operating with impunity.
• Healing and change will come from grassroots efforts (protecting children, supporting survivors) AND from relentless pressuring of the political system and support for specialized investigations.
• Listeners can learn more, support, or get involved through EpsteinJustice.com.

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For comprehensive reading, supporting victim-justice, or detailed analysis, visit:
→ EpsteinJustice.com
→ NickBryantNYC.com

“I made a vow to myself... I’m not going to let these bastards get away with this.” — Nick Bryant (121:14)

Transcript

[Mark Gagnon]

So I'm curious, who do you think is the next Jeffrey Epstein?

[Nick Bryant]

Okay, so I was told that there was a Jeffrey Epstein understudy.

[Mark Gagnon]

Jeffrey Epstein's new email release last week has showed the world just how evil this man truly was. And today I have a guest on to talk about it that truly might be the best person for the job. He is a thorn in Jeffrey Epstein's side and he himself was actually named in the files for going against Epstein so viciously. Nick Bryant has been investigating trafficking operations since 2003. And he's one of the first reporters in America, America to start covering Jeffrey Epstein. Before the Netflix documentaries, before the coverage and the arrests, Nick Bryant knew that something was off. While the mainstream media looked the other way for years, Nick Bryant stayed on the case, connecting all the dots, finding the little slip ups, making all the connections. Infamously, in 2015, he's the one that published Epstein's black book and flight logs. Just showing the public for the first time how deep this all really goes. And today we're going through the most recent Jeffrey Epstein email release, going through the, the most vile and horrific emails that Nick Bryant has compiled. He goes through all the co words, the co conspirators, the connections, and he follows the money to figure out who's really involved in all this. If you want to know the answer to questions like these, who's involved? How deep does it go? How many people are implicated? And of course, who is the next Jeffrey Epstein. Well, this is the episode for you. Enjoy. Nick Bryant. Welcome to camp. Nick Bryant. Thank you so much for joining me.

[Nick Bryant]

Great to be with you, Mark.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now I, I've told the people a little bit in an intro before the episode started who you are, but you just as a brief sort of introduction, you have been covering maybe you could say sex trafficking, cults and operations for almost 25 years.

[Nick Bryant]

And closer to 23, closer to.

[Mark Gagnon]

Come on, come on, we can round up a little. All right. You wrote a great book called the Franklin Scandal discussing this massive sex trafficking operation that was coming out of Omaha, Nebraska, that was international, across the United States into the East Coast. And you from that book started getting interested in this guy named Jeffrey Epstein, started doing journalism on him in 2003, 2004, something to that extent.

[Nick Bryant]

I came across the first Epstein related sojourn I made to Florida was in October of 2011. I've said it was, I thought it was January of 2012, but I ended up in the Epstein files.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. So this is what I wanted to ask you. So you start Covering Epstein, you publish, infamously, his black book onto the Internet. And now you have an entire foundation called Epstein Justice.

[Nick Bryant]

Yes.

[Mark Gagnon]

Where you're working to get justice for the survivors of Epstein's sex trafficking operation. Now, there's been a recent release of roughly 3 million emails and files related to Jeffrey Epstein's sex trafficking operation. Now, for the record, the FBI has said there is no external, there's no co conspirators or anyone that was being trafficked to him. So in the interest of being in alignment with the FBI, that's obviously bubkiss. But there's been all these emails that have been released, and I want to go through a bunch of them. You have compiled a bunch through your website where you have many of the most salacious, strange, bizarre and evil emails that have been uncovered through this giant tranche of files that have been released. And I think the most interesting place to start is right here with your name being referenced in the emails. So can you explain why you have been referenced in these emails despite fighting for justice for so long?

[Nick Bryant]

It's kind of an interesting story. I went down and I got Epstein's black book and I called victims first because I wanted to see. I mean, at this point, Jeffrey Epstein was alone and. But there were accounts of multiple girls getting. But a grand jury said that he hadn't a single minor. And that exact same thing happened with the Franklin scandal. The book that I wrote. Actually two grand juries said that no minors had been. So. Right. I went down there and the first victim, I. Well, actually I talked to her mother as she was in the room, but I. She was kind of communing through and she had been 13 years old. And then I talked to another one who said that she'd been flown around. And then I talked to another one that said she'd been flown to an island. And at that point I realized that I'm dealing with a network very much like Franklin. So then I started calling because I had all these numbers. I started calling Jeffrey Epstein's inner circle and none of them picked up except for Sarah Kellen. And I said, hi, Sarah, I'm Nick Bryan, I'm a journalist. And she was commiserating at how badly she's been treated in the media.

[Mark Gagnon]

Wow.

[Nick Bryant]

Which I find somewhat comedic. Apparently she picked up on my cynicism.

[Mark Gagnon]

Can you share who Sarah Kellen is exactly?

[Nick Bryant]

Sarah Kellen was like the right hand woman of Ghislaine Maxwell. Sarah Kellen led hundreds of lambs to the slaughter. And she knew the whole scope of Jeffrey Epstein's operation and she had a four million dollar home in New York and also she a two million dollar apartment in Miami. So she, she was taking care of pretty well.

[Mark Gagnon]

Wow.

[Nick Bryant]

And so I call up Sarah Kellen and apparently the bells and whistles came and, and then there was an email that was sent to a bunch of people, although we didn't. The, the center has been redacted and they said watch out for Nick Bryant, he's a journalist, he's asking around. And then they had a picture of me.

[Mark Gagnon]

So they had a picture of you in the email?

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah, I, I didn't get to see the picture but there, there was a jpeg and so they passed around my picture and I, you know, I'm kind of vain so I, I, you know, I hope it was one of the better pictures that I have. I hope they got my good.

[Mark Gagnon]

Strange. I mean this email right here from what is this? October, November 11, 2011 remind Jeffrey Epstein to call Nick Bryant.

[Nick Bryant]

Alarm.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yes, remind Jeff. Now almost certainly this is you. There's not another Nick Bryant that's involved in his circle.

[Nick Bryant]

There's another Nick Bryant that's a journalist, but I don't think that he was in Florida at that point.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now this email was sent after you had acquired the Black Book and started calling around. Yeah. Interesting. And there's other references to you.

[Nick Bryant]

There's that there's three emails about me. The first one is, you know, beware of Nick Bryant and have my picture. And then there's this one alarm, remind J to call Nick Bryant. And then the third one is to remind Epstein again to call me. So he never called me. Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Why do you think that is?

[Nick Bryant]

I have no idea.

[Mark Gagnon]

Strange.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, there's just.

[Nick Bryant]

They might have googled me and saw my work on the Franklin scandal and other things and looked at me as kind of a threat.

[Mark Gagnon]

Wow. Now this got sent to many people. It says just a heads up, there's a journalist calling around. His name is Nick Bryant. This is what he looks like. So you're all aware. And it's sent to Rich Barnett, Rich.

[Nick Bryant]

Kahn, Larry V, he's the pilot, one of the pilots.

[Mark Gagnon]

So these are all people with the day to day operations of Epstein's sort of life and his inner circle. You could say so. Okay. These are not power brokers to the degree that we, we might talk about later.

[Nick Bryant]

Indik is a affluent lawyer. Okay. And I'm sure viscosity made a lot of money. And Rodriguez, I would suggest that you're audience look her up.

[Mark Gagnon]

Okay.

[Nick Bryant]

Because there were, from what I understand, I mean, and Rodriguez is a person of interest for me. Now. I was been told that There were like 2,000 emails with her name on it and now there's 200. I haven't been able to follow up on it. I've been kind of busy lately.

[Mark Gagnon]

I can imagine.

[Nick Bryant]

So.

[Mark Gagnon]

So you just put this out on your website. You put out basically an entire sort of organized file of all these different emails that you've kind of analyzed. And this is@nickbryan nyc.com and some of the emails here just to kind of go through, you've sort of classified them into different categories that are extremely evil. And what is the other category?

[Nick Bryant]

Well, there's horrors and then there's pizza, shrimp muffins, et cetera. And then there's celebrity and then there's transhumanism and cloning. And then there's fda, bici, massad.

[Mark Gagnon]

Okay, well, let's move through some of them. So this one says black market babies. What is this one?

[Nick Bryant]

Okay, I'm not 18. I don't know if I could, you.

[Mark Gagnon]

Know, older than 18. As long as you're older.

[Nick Bryant]

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

[Mark Gagnon]

So this one was sent on December 29, 2020. It says woman who accused John of God, cult leader of the R word, mysteriously and it says blank spoke of this going on at Zorro Ranch. This is Epstein's residence in the southw New Mexico. She has said on record that Epstein offered her money to do this birth babies for black market use. So this email comes obviously after Jeffrey Epstein has died. What do you suspect this email is from and why is this being released in these files?

[Nick Bryant]

I, you know, I've, I've spoken at a bunch of conferences about trafficking and I have had people come up to me afterwards and say that they had been quote, unquote, breeders, they had been used as breeders. So this wasn't completely a foreign idea to me that there are women that are used to carry babies. And actually Virginia Drew Free Maxwell and Epstein wanted her to carry a baby before they sent her to Thailand. And that was one of the things that was like the critical mass. And then she was supposed to pick up like a, a little eight year old kid. And that was. And then she met her husband and told him about it. And then they moved to Australia, which is where he was from.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now this information comes from Virginia Gufre's personal testimony.

[Nick Bryant]

Nobody's Girl. Her autobiography.

[Mark Gagnon]

Got it. Interesting. So this is saying that it said on record that Epstein offered her money to do this. Now, ostensibly, this is Epstein's children, or is this other children for some other use?

[Nick Bryant]

You know, I have no idea. The thing is, It's. In the mid-90s, Dolly the sheep was cloned. And it's very easy to clone anybody or any. Any type of you. If you've got an ovum, you take the. The DNA out of the ovum, and then you insert the DNA that you want, and then you apply an electrical charge, and it starts the mitosis process cells. But, I mean, sometimes the electrical charge will start the process, sometimes it won't. And at that point, when Dolly the sheep was cloned, I. And this is even before I got into all this really dark stuff with the Franklin guy, I thought to myself, there's got to be megalomaniac billionaires out there that are cloning themselves if a sheep can be cloned. And actually, I think you can get a French bulldog cloned in New York City for $65,000.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, absolutely. There's been. People have been doing this with their pets for a while. And you had mentioned this to me last time you were here. You had mentioned that there was a woman who claims that there was, like, incisions on her stomach near her uterus that. And you had basically suggested. I don't know exactly where the information came from. Maybe you can explain it again.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, it was Julia Bryant. And now I don't know exactly why she went unconscious at Zo Ranch or passed out or something like that. And she said that she woke up and there was a female doctor there, and she was in stirrups and that they were harvesting her ovums.

[Mark Gagnon]

So now I remember you telling me this, and I was a little bit skeptical, and I think reasonably so. It's a pretty wild and I mean morbid claim, but seeing the amount of conversations here about, you know, children and eugenics and cloning and all of this weird sort of transhumanist conversation, baby editing. Yeah, it's. There's just so many emails that are related to this that I find it so strange that I thought back on the conversation, I was like, oh, wow. I owe Nick an apology for my incredulousness. But, yeah, it's interesting. Like, there's even another email where Prince Andrew's wife, ex wife, rather congratulates Epstein on having a baby boy.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

What do you make of that? Bizarre.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, it's bizarre, but again, I mean, you've got a. Epstein was a megalomaniac, and he had the money to clone himself. I mean, I don't think it's completely divorced from reality to think that he cloned himself. Did you ever see the movie Boys from Brazil?

[Mark Gagnon]

No.

[Nick Bryant]

It was.

[Mark Gagnon]

You had mentioned it, though.

[Nick Bryant]

It was about Mengele cloning all these little laid off Hitlers.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. And not literally, but there are like twins that exist in. In Brazil to this day.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah, well, that's. That's something kind of different.

[Mark Gagnon]

Okay.

[Nick Bryant]

It's Nietzsche's sister married a white supremacist and they moved to Uruguay and started a colony called New Germany. And. And she was a rabid anti Semite, Nietzsche wasn't. But she rewrote parts of his last book, Will the Power, and made it anti Semitic. But anyway, so her husband and they brought this crew of Germans to Uruguay or Paraguay, one or the other. And then they just, they. They looked at like the Indians as. Or the Native Americans as culturally inferior. So they just were breeding amongst themselves. And I saw this documentary a while back where New Germany was visited, and you had a lot of people running around.

[Mark Gagnon]

Wow.

[Nick Bryant]

But they had blonde hair and blue eyes.

[Mark Gagnon]

There you go. The master race. That's all that matters.

[Nick Bryant]

But in Boys of Boys in Brazil, that's what happened is. It's fictitious, but Mengele supposedly cloned Adolf Hitler a number of times and then put him in a. Put him in families where the. His dad was like a civil. Hillary's dad was civil servant. So put him in families where there was like a civil servant.

[Mark Gagnon]

Wow.

[Nick Bryant]

And. And a passive mother.

[Mark Gagnon]

And you're suggesting that it's possible that Epstein was trying to pass on his genetics in some way, either literally or through some type of cloning mechanism? I mean, just the fact that Fergie would send it, say, oh, congrats on the baby boy. Like, I'm. What else could that. I mean, like a dog. Maybe you got like a pet. Like it's. I don't know.

[Nick Bryant]

I mean, if you were a megalomaniac and you had millions of dollars, it just seems like it would be kind of a natural thing where you'd want to clone yourself so you would live on. You would have immortality at least that way. And it wouldn't surprise me if that was Jeffrey Epstein's go.

[Mark Gagnon]

There's another disturbing file. I don't know if you have it in this. In this sort of selection here, but it's a girl writing a diary entry discussing having a child and being held down while she's having the child and then the child being taken away from her.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah, I came across that.

[Mark Gagnon]

What is that? Like, did you have a theory as to what that was.

[Nick Bryant]

In my years of looking into this, as I said, some women are used as, quote, unquote, breeders. There was an amazing study that was done. It's called the Extreme Abuse Survey. And if your audience wants to really go down the rabbit hole, they can look up the Extreme Abuse Survey. It was done by four researchers. Two psychologists from Germany, one psychologist from the United States, and then a woman named Carol Rutz, who was a mind control survivor. And actually she wrote a book called A Nation Betrayed. She was like, the first mind control survivor to really come out and. And talk about that. And the Extreme Abuse Survey has multiple categories of different types of abuse. And that's one of the categories is. And like, 400 people responded to that questionnaire. So. Wow. I would suggest that you check out Extreme Abuse Survey, and it talks about all kinds of really horrific things, but you've got multiple people saying that, you know, this or that, and it's. It's. It's shocking.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. It's a. Such a challenging thing with these files, specifically because there's no doubt that Jeffrey Epstein was this psychopathic, megalomaniac monster that was doing this. I mean, perhaps the worst evil you can do to, you know, fellow humans. And with that, you have all these emails that sort of show his inner dealings. And some of them are so mundane and kind of innocuous and kind of, you know, blase. But then you have others that are so morbid and sort of, you know, curious and, like, sexual and bizarre. And then you also have these anonymous tips that are the most salacious but also the least verifiable. And it's all just kind of flooded at the same time. And it's hard to really parse, okay, what is credible, what is a little bit, you know, less credible. I'm curious, when you're going through these files, how do you assess what to apply the most time and energy into? Because not every person's name in the files is necessarily, you know, this pedophilic monster. But how do you approach that?

[Nick Bryant]

I just. You've saw what I've done. I've gleaned a bunch of them and put them into categories, and it's really up for people to decide what they think. But. But I have come across this information before. In the Franklin scandal, there were accounts of children getting murdered. And there was a. There was a network in Detroit, out of Detroit, and the. It was run by a guy named Francis, or it was affiliated with a guy named Francis Sheldon, who was a very wealthy Guy and he had Fox island in Lake Michigan, and he would fly kids in to Fo island and make some material and his buddies some. And there was an offshoot of that on network that started killing kids. A woman named Mari Keenan wrote a pretty good book about it. It's called the Snow Murders. And, and what I. What I've seen with really evil house is they, they like to be sadistic. And there were Epstein clients that liked to be sadistic to the little girls. And I think that they just take it further and further and further. I mean, that's, that's my extrapolation on it.

[Mark Gagnon]

Interesting. I mean, it's brutal and it's so morbid. But I guess the nature of their sadism is that it has to keep on getting, you know, elevated.

[Nick Bryant]

Virginia talks about a prime minister in her book and how he really roughed her up and asphyxiated her. And he. He's a. A nasty piece of work.

[Mark Gagnon]

Does she say him by name or just.

[Nick Bryant]

No, she said prime minister.

[Mark Gagnon]

I see Croesus. Could you scroll up here to the very top? There's one with Epstein and Leon Black specifically.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah, Leon got a little sadistic with that girl.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. So this email is. Is strange. So this one, it says here now again scrolling up. This is from May 26, 2023. So again, after Epstein's death. And it says with. It says call with Janine Christensen. And it says here, Leon Black, Wall street person, founded largest private equity global fund, one of Epstein's friends. And then it has redacted line that says seven to eight years Black was sexually violent with her. Black bites part of her genitals. Violence was arousing for him. Very painful for her. JC represented victim for civil defamation case, not sex abuse scandal. Went to the USAO in Manhattan. JC doesn't represent her anymore. And it goes on to sort of discuss more about the legal dealings of this. It says, victim says Black sexually assaulted her around 20 years ago. That's not the exact word. I'm just changing it for monetization. In Epstein's townhouse, victim described it felt like pain on massage table with head on floor, legs on his shoulders. Excruciating. I mean, it's extremely brutal. I mean, it says abuse in here. Pretty directly. Abuse happened in New York. What do you make of this email? Where is it coming from and what is the purpose of it existing in these files?

[Nick Bryant]

Well, I think that someone in some type of authority took her statement. I mean, I think that that's where this come from. And you can See in other documents where authorities are taking people's statements. And with this, what's. The media has been just so disingenuous regarding Jeffrey Epstein. So Leon Black gave Jeffrey Epstein $160 million. And, and actually, Jeffrey Epstein was kind of mean to Leon Black. Was. It wasn't polite with him quite a bit. But he gave Leon Black $160 million. And the media has said the reason why he gave Leon Black, or Leon Black gave Jeffrey Epstein $160 million was because Epstein was helping him with his taxes.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. Tax advice. I've heard this before. Yeah.

[Nick Bryant]

And like with Les Wexner, and this is from Vanity Fair, which is somewhat sophisticated. The reason why Les Wexner gave Jeffrey Epstein power of attorney over his vast fortune in 1991 was because it was lonely. So you look at the excuses that the mainstream media has made for these people. Would it surprise me that Leon Black is sadistic to girls? I'm. No, I wouldn't.

[Mark Gagnon]

So that's what this. You're suggesting, that this comes from some type of statement from some type of authority.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Regarding his behavior. Now, why would he not be prosecuted for this?

[Nick Bryant]

Because Epstein Maxwell had no co conspirators. I mean, where do you. If the Department of Justice and FBI were going to start indicting co conspirators, where would you stop?

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

I mean, that's. I mean, on Sunday, the FBI came out after all these emails and said that Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell had no co conspirators. So that is the Maginot line right there. And Leon Black is safely behind the Maginot line.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

But if the prosecution start, he's probably going to be at the top of the line.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. I mean, it says here seven to eight years. I'm assuming that's years old, was the age of the victim. It's difficult to really assess. But that also kind of paints a different picture of this whole thing because at a certain point, it's been stated to the public that the youngest Epstein victim was like 13, 14.

[Nick Bryant]

No, that's categorically wrong because I've spoken at various conferences over the years. I've gotten to know therapists that work with survivors, and I know two therapists that worked with. And. And I believe them. And actually one of them is a very eminent psychologist, and they both worked with victims of Epstein or victims who were trafficked when they were under 10 years old.

[Mark Gagnon]

So why does the public believe that the youngest was.

[Nick Bryant]

Because that's. That's what the media and the government have sold Sold them. And, and people don't want to. And it's very strange. We've got like Megyn Kelly who is harassed ad nauseam by Roger Ale. You think that she would have some kind of empathy towards sexual abuse victims, but you've got people like her claiming that 14 year old or 15 year olds have agency. And, and I think that, and, and a lot of people are standing behind that, that 14 year olds or 15 year olds have agency. But when you get to 11 year olds or 9 year olds, then the agency argument kind of dissipates.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, it makes no sense to me. I mean like you can be sex trafficked at 25, you can be sex traffic at 30 years old. So like the fact that, like, to me, the fact that there's a, you know, that you're telling me like there's victims under 10 just makes it more grotesque.

[Nick Bryant]

And actually that's come out in the files.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. I mean, even this email, whether or not this is Val, this is true or not, it's probably worth saying that at this point in time, Leon Black has not had formal criminal charges related to, you know, sexual abuse or anything like that levied against.

[Nick Bryant]

And the only relationship he had with Jeffrey Epstein is Jeffrey Epstein helped him with his taxes. Right.

[Mark Gagnon]

Which, you know, it's not illegal for. I'll help you with your taxes. But is that the extent of their relationship?

[Nick Bryant]

It is not. There have been other allegations against Leon Black other than this. Jeffrey Epstein really leveraged him hard. He, he rode Leon Black very hard.

[Mark Gagnon]

I just don't get what leverage Epstein would have on someone like Leon Black. Was it just that he was the sadistic guy that wanted access to what Epstein had? Like that, you know, Epstein was his fixer. Was there some other type of power play happening here?

[Nick Bryant]

Well, Epstein, all of his homes were wired for audio, visual blackmail. And if someone has footage of an individual, someone who's underage, they're owned.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

There's, there's no escape from that. And they're, they're going to be obsequious regardless of what happens.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

And it's pretty obvious that Leon Black, and as I said, there are other allegations about him, but nothing's ever happened to him legally because he's behind the Maginot line.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. But there's also weird discrepancies with that. There's the initial filing from the FBI when they raid Epstein's home, suggesting that there is cameras in many of the rooms.

[Nick Bryant]

Yes.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then there's a later statement saying that there are not Cameras. But yet in some of the pictures that are released of his rooms, you can see cameras in the room. Like he's sort of surreptitiously hidden on top of, you know, the top kind of banister thing. It's just strange that there's so much back and forth on this topic.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, our government has worked very hard to cover up Jeffrey Epstein and his little enterprises. And for Pam Bondi, I and I, this was actually a tragic. But it's humorous to a certain degree because it's so ridiculous. Pam, Bonnie said that agents and DOJ personnel were going through the videos that had been impounded from Jeffrey Epine. So. And according to her, there's thousands of them. And so these videos were impounded in 2019, and then the Justice Department just put them in a corner where they were gathering dust and didn't look at them, I mean, till 2025. I mean, that, that is patently absurd.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

I mean, they were doing, I'm sure that there were agents doing double shifts. And. And she also said that the videos included Jeffrey Epstein minors. And then she said that. Yeah, she walked that back, too.

[Mark Gagnon]

Wow. Wow. Yeah, I, Yeah. I refuse to believe that these files were just sitting there. I mean, this is the most explosive and perhaps politically impactful story of the last 25, 50 years, perhaps. And I mean, with so many political enemies on either side, I can't imagine that the Biden administration or Merrick Garland wouldn't be trying to go through these files to find information on Trump and that they would just let it go.

[Nick Bryant]

My take on this is, I mean, the COVID up started under Bush, too, the cognitively challenged George Bush, and then it went through Obama and then it went through Trump, and then it went through Biden, and then Trump ran that he was going to offer, you know, that he was going to expose.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

What was. And I think that Trump thought Epstein is a Pandora's box. Bush, too, built the box. Obama and Biden made sure that they didn't open the box. And I think that the Trump administration felt like they could open the box ever so slightly and then slam it shut. But with Pandora's box, once you open it, the curse comes out and there's no getting the curse back into the box. And I think Trump found that when the Trump administration came out with those very disingenuous documents that were given to the influencers and the white binders, when I put the black book up in 2015, we redacted adults numbers. And when it came to the victims under generally under Massage. There was the victims, and there were, like, 174 names under massage. Massage, Florida. Massage, New Mexico. Massage, La. And that's where I found the victims is under massage.

[Mark Gagnon]

Wow.

[Nick Bryant]

So I. I told Gawker, we've got to redact their last names and their numbers. And so that's what we did. We did the right thing. And then when I saw Bondi's release of the black book that I put up, everything was black.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right, exactly.

[Nick Bryant]

So, I mean, and then the flight logs, too. I mean, I put more incriminating information on the Internet in 2015 than she did initially in 2025.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. Ten years before you release more information than she did under, you know, federal order.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Bizarre. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break because I got to give a shout out to Brunt Workwear. All right? These boots surprise the hell out of me. Now, if you've ever worn work boots, you know the deal. You can either get durable or you can get comfortable. All right? Either they're durable and they destroy your feet, or they're comfortable and they last for, like, a week, and then they fall apart. But with Brunt, you don't have to choose. I put these on right out of the box. Sorry, They're a little dirty because I was shoveling snow with them a little bit earlier. They have no break in. You put them on and they fit immediately. They're comfortable immediately, and they're extremely durable immediately. Now, look, I'm not a blue collar guy, all right? But Brunt was started by that guy, Eric Girard. And because these big workwear brands stopped listening and turned into, like, fashion companies, so he built an actual boot for people that actually work, and it shows. These things are built incredibly well. They're waterproof, they have a safety toe, soft toe, pull on, lace up. Whatever job site you're on, whatever place you're working at, they've got what you need, and they stand behind it because you can wear them to work. And if they're not right, you can send them right back. That alone tells you how confident Brunt is in their products. So if you're sick of uncomfortable boots that don't last or extremely durable boots that hurt your feet, Brunt is the way to go. I'll be honest. It's freezing cold in New York and it's snowing. These have been incredibly good for me to be shoveling snow outside. So right now, if you're listening to this program, I got great news for you. You're gonna get $10 off when use the code camp, you're gonna go to Bruntworkware. That's B U R N T workwear.com camp. Use that code at checkout and you're gonna be getting $10 off your order. And if you don't like them, hey, no harm, no foul. You send them right back. That is how confident Brunt is that you're going to love these boots. Now let's get back to the show. Okay, let's go through another email here. Maxwell and young girl in Mexico. What is that one?

[Nick Bryant]

That one's a little ominous.

[Mark Gagnon]

This is not the one we were mentioning before.

[Nick Bryant]

No.

[Mark Gagnon]

Okay, so this comes from someone named Ken T. And it was sent to an unknown redacted person. Says young girl here in Mexico. It says she has identified Gayne Maxwell as a woman who came to Richard Marcinko's home in Mexico many times in 2010 and 2011 with Nancy Marcinko to set up sexual trips for her when she was 10 or 11. We know of death threats against her because of testimony she gave in 2018 against Kelly Biden and Wayne in the sex abuse case in Mexico. Right now we have her in a safe location, we want you guys to know, but we also need to protect her, her son and her guardian.

[Nick Bryant]

This time of year, everyone talks about going dry, but at Athletic Brewing Co. We're skipping that because we prefer going Athletic, which isn't dry at all. From crisp goldens to hoppy IPAs and limited releases, in between, you'll find something that fits your style. Every single non alcoholic brew is packed with flavor and the same craft experience you love. So, yeah, you could call it dry, but there's really nothing dry about it. Find your new favorite near [e-mail] Athletic Brewing Company fit for all. There again, you've got girls that are, are very young. And Virginia, you free with her affidavit. I think it was in 2014. She said that she had attended orgies with girls as young as 12. And there were, there was a Australian daily called the Age. I think, I think it's out of Sydney and they spent a lot of time in the Virgin Islands investigating Jeffrey Abstein. And they said that the victims were as young as 11 or 12. So. And then these therapists that I know have corroborated that. So I don't think. And you know, these guys are psychopaths. When I wrote the Franklin scandal, those, those pimps were primarily into pubescent boys. But if you wanted an 8 year old, they would get you an 8 year old. I mean that's the way that these, they're psychopaths and they want to appease their clients. And, and I think Epstein was primarily into, I don't know, 13, 14, 15 year old girls. But if you want an eight year old, he didn't have any. Like, it's not like he had to bother with his conscience right now.

[Mark Gagnon]

I can accept that that is true what you're saying as far as the ages of these victims and survivors. But is it also possible this email is not true? That this was sent from an anonymous person trying to stir up information or to falsely frame someone in an inaccurate way? Because again, we just have this anonymous email.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, we, it's not. Yeah, I mean it's anonymous now because of the redaction.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

But it's. That, that, that is entirely possible. But so it's a, it's entirely possible that it's some kind of deception, but it's also entirely possible that it's true too.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

Given what we know and I guess.

[Mark Gagnon]

The reasonable position would be let's investigate it.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, that would. But, but there's no co conspirators, so we're not, we're not going to investigate it.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

That's, that's the problem.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, yeah, I guess. I, yeah. In the interest of truth, I would want all of the fraudulent and you know, fake emails to be investigated and proven fake and I want all of the legitimate emails to be investigated and all the co conspirators that are involved in this operation to be convicted and serve their sentence, whatever it may be, in a court of law.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, the, the Epstein, that act, I mean, there isn't supposed to be these redactions.

[Mark Gagnon]

Oh really?

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

So even the redactions here are unconstitutional, or maybe not unconstitutional, but maybe against what?

[Nick Bryant]

The, against the law. Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Interesting.

[Nick Bryant]

So from what I understand and from what Thomas Massie has said, that the perps were not to be redacted, only the victims were to be redacted. Right. But now we're. Everything is heavily redacted.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean there's even an email that's saying politicians, you know, wealthy business people, etc, should be redacted. That's in one of the emails basically telling them that we're going to redact whatever we want.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Bizarre.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, I mean the Trump administration really hasn't found the law that Donald Trump signed in, so we can't really expect them to start following the law now. Right. But I will say this, I'm kind of amazed at A lot of the stuff that was released.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Nick Bryant]

I mean, because. Is in line with things that I've investigated previously and what other people have told me, so.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. And shout out to Thomas Massey and Rokhanna for their amazing, unwavering dedication to this issue and not politicizing it.

[Nick Bryant]

I mean. Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

And having sort of like this joint, you know, bipartisan support.

[Nick Bryant]

They are really good guys. Donald Trump is having billionaires finance Thomas Massey's opponent right now in the primaries.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

And I really hope Thomas. Thomas Massie can keep his seat. I think there's a lot of people in Kentucky that really like him and respect what he's done. Right. But his opponent's just being deluged with money.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now, there's a couple strange things in here relating to keywords. So there's this one that the. The shrimp one right at the bottom from. Yeah, right there. So this is an email. Seems like it's to Jeffrey Epstein. And it says, no, some are like shrimp. You throw away the heads and you keep the body. Now, that's in response to as long as you don't have any hammerhead ones. I like white sharks. So scroll down a little bit more. Christos, this is just a. Seems like there's. There's some euphemistic language happening here. I like white sharks. And then scroll up, it says, no, some are like shrimp. You throw away the body. And then it says, I like shrimp, but not so much if it's too pink. I'm more into white than any other color. I like your philosophy. Go to the next slide. Christos, it says, I built a friend that built the Beijing airport. Wanted to know. And then scroll up a bit, it says, very nice. Where are you now? Scroll up a little bit more. I'm on my island in the Caribbean with an aquarium full of girls. And then scroll up a little, it says, the king of Saudi Arabia has a few white sharks in his. At his Jeddah Palace. I totally prefer. Prefer yours. Sure. I would enjoy the view. Two are Russians. I guess some might refer to them as white sharks. So there's much more to this correspondence that's sort of this strange coded language. It seems like some of it is not so coded. I mean, aquarium full of girls is.

[Nick Bryant]

Like, pretty obvious, I would think. Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

And from this Google search here, he's a diplomat, a former advisor in the diplomatic unit of former French president Nicholas Sarkozy. So that's what I found here. This guy, Olivier Colomb.

[Nick Bryant]

There he is. Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

And so these emails are just so bizarre. I Mean, references to white sharks. And I like white sharks. And I'm in an aquarium full of girls. And some are like shrimp. You have to remove the head and, oh, I hate the smell of black shrimp. Like, there's this weird, racialized, misogynistic coded language. What do you make of this?

[Nick Bryant]

Well, it's weird, racial, misogynistic coded language. I mean, if I put some smart money down, I would say that Oliver Colombe doesn't really like African Americans. That would be my guess.

[Mark Gagnon]

He. I mean, I think that's a bold claim.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, again, I think it's worth referencing that Oliver Colomba has not had legal charges pressed against him for.

[Nick Bryant]

We want to use in the interest.

[Mark Gagnon]

Of being fully transparent. But with that said, these emails are just so bizarre. I mean, some are like shrimp. You remove the head. I've seen people online suggest that this is about actual dismemberment.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah, I've seen that, too.

[Mark Gagnon]

I've also heard people suggest that this is a euphemism, like a joke where, like, you know, girls with ugly faces, you call them shrimps. I've heard people say this. What do you think of this?

[Nick Bryant]

I don't know. I would have to think that he's referring to girls or women.

[Mark Gagnon]

Okay, let's pop into another email, shall we? Again, more weird coded language here. Pizza and grape soda.

[Nick Bryant]

Okay, Harry Fish. That. He's kind of interesting.

[Mark Gagnon]

Okay, so click on nope. Is that Carry fish or Harry Fish?

[Nick Bryant]

It's hairy fish.

[Mark Gagnon]

I got that one right there.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah, I misspelled. Okay, so Harry likes pizza and grape soda. Yeah, and I got his number. He's a. Actually a gifted urologist. He's a eminent urologist.

[Mark Gagnon]

So, yeah, this is from Harry Fish to Epstein.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Holy chunky, I forgot about that. What time do you want to get pizza and grape soda tomorrow? This is in June of 2018. This is between a gifted urologist and also a billionaire talking about eating pizza and grape soda.

[Nick Bryant]

So I found Harry's phone number. I'm pretty good at finding people's cell phone numbers. And it's just years of being investigative journalist. You get pretty good at that, you know what databases to hit. So I left Harry a message and I said, harry, my name's Nick Bryant. I'm a journalist. I'd like to talk to you about pizza and grape soda. And then he never got back to me, which kind of surprised me. But then I texted him and I said, harry, it's Nick Bryan again. And actually I put it on Twitter and I Said, what is your favorite type of pizza? Just for my own personal edification. And what is your favorite brand of grape soda? And he never got back to me. So I've left a voicemail for him. I've texted him, and Harry doesn't want to talk to me. I'm hurt by that man.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now.

[Nick Bryant]

That really hurts me.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. It's interesting that he seemed forthcoming and interested to talk about pizza and grape soda with his friend Jeffrey Epstein in 2018.

[Nick Bryant]

And I thought he would talk to me about pizza and grape soda.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, I guess maybe you're not. You're not briefed in. In the club. You might not be. You might not be one of the cool guys.

[Nick Bryant]

I was kind of offended by Harry.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, it makes sense. I completely understand. Now. I've heard people suggest that pizza, as it relates to, obviously, the Pizzagate story, conspiracy theories, some have said that kind of came out of this 2020 email leak. Some people suggested that pizza refers to young boys, or I've heard of. In reference to, you know, just children in general. I've heard it referenced to cp, obviously. Meaning which we might have to censor that part. But also being cheese pizza, and it's a code word. Do you think that that's what's happening here? Yeah.

[Nick Bryant]

I looked into Pizzagate. Given my philosophic training, I try to approach everything agnostically. And the stuff that I've uncovered over the years is I've covered some very bizarre stuff where, you know, if I told people about. Before any of this started hitting the Internet, if I told people about some of the stuff that I discovered, you know, they just write me off as crazy. I mean, I experienced that quite a bit.

[Mark Gagnon]

Sure.

[Nick Bryant]

So with Pizzagate, I looked into it, and I looked into it, and I found a guy who could get me to the guy who could give me some answers, and then it just evaporated. So I. That was it. I mean, I wasn't willing to put in more time into it, and I just moved on. But I think. And now Pizzagate has been completely thought of as a conspiracy theory.

[Mark Gagnon]

Sure.

[Nick Bryant]

But, you know, the term conspiracy theory is. It's a very strange term. In 1967, the CIA put out a dispatch, and because a lot of people were questioning the Warren Commission, actually, I think the majority of Americans were questioning the Warren Commission, which is reasonable. And the CIA said in the dispatch, people that question the Warren Commission were going to position them as conspiracy theorists. And then they had, like, a litany of things that are negative about conspiracy theorists. And prior to that, Dispatch, the Washington Post, the New York Times used conspiracy theorists maybe once a year, very sporadically, but after that Dispatch, it went up exponentially. So conspiracy theorist is a great. I mean, the, the CIA guy who thought that up, I mean, his family should get royalties for that because it's so easy. I mean, when people experience cognitive dissonance. When I was pitching the Franklin scandal to various editors, I was, you know, I look into their eyes and. And by the time I was pitching it to them, I had a lot of evidence. I had like a list of 60 victims and from a. I. I had a bunch of seal grand jury stuff. And I would be looking at these editors eyes and. And I could see, well, this is. This is a horrible story. I should help Nick Br. You know, I can just write Nick Bryan off as crazy right now and have a nice meal with my family tonight.

[Mark Gagnon]

Never think about it.

[Nick Bryant]

And I knew that most were going to go that route, but I didn't think all of them were going to go that route. But every editor that I pitched it to, a publisher, I could just. When I, when I would do it in person, I could see the cognitive dissonance bubble up right before me and then the default right of let's write Nick Bryan off.

[Mark Gagnon]

So the actual code words here, though, pizza and grape soda. Do you know what those mean?

[Nick Bryant]

I have no idea.

[Mark Gagnon]

Have you heard theories about grape soda in particular? Obviously pizza, I think people are a bit more familiar with. But grape soda, what does that.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah, I. I've got no idea.

[Mark Gagnon]

Do you think that it means what they're saying? Do you think it literally could be pizza and grape soda, or do you think it's likely a code word?

[Nick Bryant]

So you've got an eminent urologist and someone who's a billionaire. Does it really strike you that they would go out for pizza and grape soda?

[Mark Gagnon]

It seems strange to me, and it seems oddly specific. So I can see him being like, hey, let's grab a bite, and then going to get pizza.

[Nick Bryant]

But then pizza and grape soda keep come up elsewhere too.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

So. And Jeffrey Epstein really doesn't. I mean, he had a chef that flew with him everywhere he went. He was very, very meticulous about what he ate.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

He does not strike me as a pizza and grape soda kind of guy.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. And it's also just a strange, specific language to put into an email. And I know some rich people, perhaps not billionaire billionaires, but very few of the richest people I know are they eating pizza and grape soda on a regular basis. So strikes me as Strange.

[Nick Bryant]

What do you think?

[Mark Gagnon]

Strikes me as very strange. I don't know what it means, though.

[Nick Bryant]

It'S hard to define.

[Mark Gagnon]

Is it possible grape soda could be drugs? Is it possible it could be some other type of illicit thing perhaps? Is it possible it is trafficking young children also possible? That's why I just want some type of investigation, someone to talk to. Mr. Harry Fish under oath and in some type of, you know, private or public.

[Nick Bryant]

I can give you his number. After we're done here, you can give him a call. I mean, I didn't have much luck with him, but, you know, tell him you've got a pretty big podcast. Yeah. Maybe he'll come on and say, Harry, you know, come on. Yeah, my podcast. He lives in Manhattan.

[Mark Gagnon]

Oh, great. Okay, so maybe I'll bump him in.

[Nick Bryant]

He's close.

[Mark Gagnon]

So there's other things in here. There's Deepak Chopra possibly asking Epstein to arrange younger women. I mean, what is this?

[Nick Bryant]

And then there's one where Deepak Chopra.

[Mark Gagnon]

Says, God is a construct.

[Nick Bryant]

God. Yeah, God is a construct. Cute girls are. Are real. Or something like that.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then he recently put out a statement here. You can click on one of these Christos.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah, there we go. Cute girls. God is a construct. Cute girls are real.

[Mark Gagnon]

So this is a message from Deepak Chopra to Jeffrey Epstein in 2017. God is a construct. Cute girls are real. Now, in fairness to Deepak Chopra, he did put out a statement suggesting that he had no involvement with any type of wrongdoing and that his time with Epstein was regrettable.

[Nick Bryant]

I mean, see how they run?

[Mark Gagnon]

Okay, could you pull up his exact statement so we can get the. The full. The full story here?

[Nick Bryant]

I. Who's.

[Mark Gagnon]

Who's Deepak Chopra?

[Nick Bryant]

First off, Deepak Chopra is Hindu guru. And I lived on the ashram of a hin Hindu guru when I was 19 years old. It was. It was in Honesville, Pennsylvania. It was on a mountain. And I was talking to the swami. He was a swami. He was a holy man from India, celibate. On. He was in. Supposedly one with the godhead. So I was talking to the swami one day, and I could have swore I smelled cigarettes on his breath. And I went to one of the people on the ashram who had eventually termed one of the pod people. I went to one of the pods, and I said, you know, I could have swore I smelled cigarettes on swami's breath. That couldn't be possible, could it? And he said, well, here's the deal with that. He has to have one vice to keep him tethered to this plane of reality so he can teach us. And then I found out he was having. And he was supposed to be a celibate. Then I found out he was having sex with half the girls on the ashram. And then I found out that he was embezzling money from his more affluent initiates. And I thought to myself, this guy has got to be really spiritually advanced if he has to do all of that to stay on this planet. Rally.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's so grounded.

[Nick Bryant]

So I looked into every Indian guru I could possibly find, and they all have lower chakra paralactions. Yeah, it's. It's a thing. And. And I think a lot of them come here. They're corrupt, but I think some of them come here and they're not corrupt, but it's just too much for them.

[Mark Gagnon]

The power corrupts absolutely.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah. I mean, the young, beautiful American girls that are spiritually starved that look upon them as an enlightened being, it's just. It's. It's too much for these guys.

[Mark Gagnon]

And.

[Nick Bryant]

And I think Deepak Chopra probably hit that trap, too.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. And had some type of familiarity with Epstein. Now, his statement says here, I'm deeply saddened by the suffering of the victims. I want to be clear. I was never involved with, nor did I participate in any criminal or exploitative conduct. Any contact I had was limited, unrelated to abuse activity. And he goes on to say that, you know, he's trying to support victims in prevention and that he's. He regrets the statements that he had shared with Epstein at the time. Now, what's interesting about this is that Joe Rogan had also appeared in the files, and people had mentioned some former guests of Rogan had basically tried to connect Epstein and Rogan. And Rogan recently was on his podcast, and he basically says very clearly, oh, yeah, they tried to put me in touch. And then I googled him one time and said, f. No, I'm not going to meet up with this guy.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

So if Rogan has the wherewithal and the ability to do the due diligence and do one simple Google search and realize this guy's bad news is, why couldn't all these other people.

[Nick Bryant]

I mean, I. I think the answer is right before your very eyes. I mean, if you typed in Jeffrey Epstein, you would see that in the very least, he's a registered sex offender right now. How many people like to hang out with registered sex offenders? Not many.

[Mark Gagnon]

Unless. So they're doing something.

[Nick Bryant]

You might be interested in Deepak Chopra to provide us with Something that disingenuous, I think, just exacerbates my feelings of his guilt.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. I've just. I've heard people make the claim like, oh, I was connected to this guy, and I didn't look up who he was. And I. Someone told me that it was some conviction that it was actually, you know, it was nothing. He was barely even in prison. And so I just kind of looked past it. And on the one hand, I was like, all right, I could see someone being connected and going to a dinner and not knowing all the details of everything. But then on the other hand, having some type of intimate correspondence where there's repeated emails back and forth and you never just Googled their name of this extremely rich guy just to even think, like, oh, where did he get his money from? Or who does he know? And you never came across this information? It just seems convenient.

[Nick Bryant]

So do you think Deepak Chopra is lying there?

[Mark Gagnon]

Lying is difficult because I don't know if he's intentionally saying a falsehood or if perhaps he's just omitting the truth. I don't know if he's been involved in. In sexual conduct with minors with Jeffrey.

[Nick Bryant]

Epstein, even though cute girls are real and God's a construct.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. I mean, cute girls might be 20 years old, and that might be what he's referencing.

[Nick Bryant]

That is true.

[Mark Gagnon]

So I don't want to necessarily just completely throw him out there and say that he's this.

[Nick Bryant]

But do you think that those emails that he's writing to Jeffrey Epstein and his statement about. Do you think that they're somewhat contradictory?

[Mark Gagnon]

Tonally, I think there's a contradiction that on the one hand, with his statement, he's saying this completely abhorrent. And yes, I would never have any relationship with this guy. Yada yada. It's terrible paraphrasing. And then with his emails, there's quite a familiarity. And a friend.

[Nick Bryant]

I did not have a sexual relationship with that woman. Monica Lewinsky.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. Yes. It feels like there's a tonal. A tonal shift that happens. So whether he's lying or not, I can't assess. I've never met the guy. I don't know him. But it feels strange to have such a friendly relationship with this guy 10 years after he's convicted in Miami.

[Nick Bryant]

And I have my own experience with Indian gurus and the experience of many other people, too. And they've all found that their Indian gurus had lower chakra predilections. So it wouldn't surprise me if I. Chopra has lower shahur Pretty actions perhaps.

[Mark Gagnon]

I'm not going to cast all Indian gurus with the same, with the same blame.

[Nick Bryant]

I'm an old guy. I've looked into a lot of Indian gurus and, and I've never, you know, the Beatles really thought that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi was like a great teacher. And then they went to his ashram in India and then Maharishi started hitting on all the girls that came with.

[Mark Gagnon]

The, the Beatles and we know about Bikram, infamously was assaulting many women within.

[Nick Bryant]

So every Indian guru that I've ever looked into, and I, I know that this is a categorical statement.

[Mark Gagnon]

Sure.

[Nick Bryant]

But because of my experience with an Indian guru, I've looked into as many as I could possibly look into and they all come up lower chakra.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. So I mean, I think that's probably, maybe, perhaps a healthy and helpful kind of caution is that if you're getting swept up with some type of, you know, spiritual leader that's tapping into all these sort of, you know, affects of Eastern mysticism to try to, you know, pull you into their web, maybe take a step back and consider what you're getting wrapped up in.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, with the swami he did at least His Holiness eventbrushwami Rama that I lived with, he would tell the girls that they had been, you know, lovers in a past lifetime. So that was, that was kind of his end.

[Mark Gagnon]

Extremely insidious. Now there's a couple other things here you can tell me if there's a specific one you want to jump to. Epstein seemingly being invited to Mar a Lago in 2012. Peggy Siegel, who's sick about Woody Allen being busted for incest. Leonardo DiCaprio apparently needed money. In 2009 he goes to Jeffrey Epstein who then contacts Peter Mandelson for non US sponsors for the megastar.

[Nick Bryant]

That is a strange, that is very bizarre because can you go to that one Acristos. Leonardo DiCaprio would seemingly have millions and millions and millions of dollars.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. So this email is from 06-12-2009 from Jeffre Epstein to a man named Peter Mandelson.

[Nick Bryant]

And he was the, the UK Ambassador to the United States. Okay, Peter Mandelson.

[Mark Gagnon]

And it says here, can you think of anyone in India, China, Japan, etc. That might want the endorsement of Leonardo DiCaprio, Russia, etc, cars, etc. He's looking for non US products to endorse to make some money in 2009. That is strange.

[Nick Bryant]

That one caught my attention too. I didn't. It just seems kind of incongruent so.

[Mark Gagnon]

DiCaprio is looking for money. And whether or not he needed money, I don't know if we can assess that from the email, but he wanted to get some type of sponsorship for some reason.

[Nick Bryant]

If you travel to Europe or Asia, there's a bunch of Americans, stars that are on billboards that would never be on billboards here.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

So that's kind of a common practice for Hollywood glitterati types.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now, why does he go to Jeffrey Epstein or how does Epstein get the liaison for this?

[Nick Bryant]

I have no idea. And I really don't think Leonardo DiCaprio is going to tell us how he met Jeffrey Epstein, if he ever did.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, I don't know if he ever did meet Epstein, but at the very least, Epstein is willing to do this deal for him, is, you know, willing to put in some favor.

[Nick Bryant]

One would think that they've talked about it. I mean, one would think. I mean, I'm not 100% on that.

[Mark Gagnon]

But I would presume, yeah, I would presume it's. It's possible that, you know, DiCaprio's agent happened to know Epstein and reached out or something to that effect. Who's to say? But it is interesting that Epstein is willing to call in a favor with someone to help out Leonardo DiCaprio, of all people.

[Nick Bryant]

And, and Mandelson, actually, he comes up with, I believe, a torture. Something that has to do with torture. And can we pop back to the.

[Mark Gagnon]

To the, to the sheet here in Nick Bryant's website? What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I just want to state the obvious. You're not going to hire a chiropractor to do brain surgery. And if you're going to go fight in the octagon, you wouldn't hire a guy that watches a lot of ufc. And if you have a personal injury case, you're not going to just, like, hire your buddy that's good with contracts because you know that when you're hurt, it's because someone else was negligent. You don't want just, you know, lawyer Y vibes. You want real lawyers. And that's where Morgan and Morgan comes in. They are America's largest injury law firm with over a hundred offices nationwide and more than 1,000 lawyers. Crazy thing, they've recovered over $30 billion for over 500,000 clients. They've got a real track record of fighting to get people full and fair compensation. So if you are ever injured, you can check out Morgan and Morgan and their fee is free unless they win. Yes, free. You literally don't pay anything unless they win your case. That's how confident Morgan Morgan is that they can get compensation for you and your injuries. So for more information go to for the people.com gagon that is f o r the people.com g n o n or dial pound law that is pound 529 and let them know that you got sent by the people here at the campsite. Also, this is a paid advertisement. Now let's get back to the show. Okay, so it says here, this is from Jeffrey Epstein to an anonymous person that is redacted. It says, where are you? Are you okay? Comma. I loved the torture video. The person responds, I'm in China. I will be in the U.S. second week of May. Send for my BlackBerry wireless device.

[Nick Bryant]

And the name is unredacted. There, there were redactions initially that you could unredact and I guess some of these documents have, that you copy them and then put them on Microsoft Word and that you can unredact them or something to that effect. But Mandelson has been relieved of all his duties. There was consequences for him.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right now again, I don't know if this email was to Mandelson. I've heard different theories about who this email is from. Again it is completely, it is redacted in the files that are released by the government. But that email is very strange. The torture video. I don't. Do you have any theories as to what that is?

[Nick Bryant]

I think that we're dealing with sadists here. I mean that's, I think the bottom line.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now I had heard a theory that there was a Middle Eastern billionaire who had basically been investigated for this bizarre torture video that he had recorded that eventually got smuggled out by people he was doing business with. And it was around the same time people have suggested that perhaps that is the video that is being referenced in this email.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah, I don't know but I know who you're talking about. Sultan something or another from the United Arab Emirates perhaps. But yeah, I, I don't know.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, so it's just again another interesting and strange sort of interaction where these guys are talking about torture.

[Nick Bryant]

Jamie Raskin was looking through these documents and he found reference to a nine year old victim. So it's, and I don't, I don't have the link for the 11 year old but it's j, it says like JPEG of 11 year old and it's sent to Jeffrey Epstein.

[Mark Gagnon]

Okay, so right here it is from a redacted person to Jeffrey Epstein. Says age 11. And then it has a full size render.jpg yeah. And that's the whole email. Why is someone sending. I've never sent that email. Age 11 with a picture. That seems very strange that that would be something included in an email to Jeffrey Epstein in 2016. What is this? Eight years after he was convicted as a pedophile, basically, or procuring a minor for prostitution.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, that was 2008.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. So this is eight years after that, and someone's sending an email saying age 11 to this guy.

[Nick Bryant]

Guy. I mean, do you think that Jeffrey Epstein doing 13 months in a county jail where he is able to get out 12 hours a day, do you think that. And he was having sex with at least one teenager that we know of.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

Do you think that that was a speed bump for him?

[Mark Gagnon]

You would think.

[Nick Bryant]

And I don't think it was, but.

[Mark Gagnon]

I don't think it was.

[Nick Bryant]

I mean, if you look at everything that he'd gotten away with, and then he's got to do 13 months in a county jail. He has it dressed up like the Taj Mahal.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

And then women, and I've got this from a very good source. Women that are ostensibly helping his legal team are come to the, to the jail. This is before he was getting out 12 hours a day. And they had a special room for him where they. He could consult with these young women that were helping him legally.

[Mark Gagnon]

So in the prison, it's possible he.

[Nick Bryant]

Was continuing in the jail.

[Mark Gagnon]

He was continuing with his criminal activities in the jail.

[Nick Bryant]

And there was Desantis. There was actually an investigation into the Palm beach sheriffs. And I believe that he was paying them off. And, and they, they kind of looked him as like a rock star.

[Mark Gagnon]

Bizarre.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. It's just, it's. It's a shame that that's how the system is set up. Again, I don't see this as an aberration of the system. I don't see this as a fluke. I see this as a feature of how the system operates, that the wealthiest people are able to buy legal protection, bribe the necessary people, and have enough money to commit their crimes completely covertly and without public scrutiny. Meanwhile, the poorest of society, the 95%, the average person, is not able to get high level legal representation. They're able, or they're more willing to do things that are perhaps, you know, desperate. That then leads to, you know, criminal trafficking, like a modeling job or something like that, because of their financial situation. And that the way that our financial system is set up Is that the richest point zero or, you know, 0.01% are able to exploit the poorest 99%. USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day, like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With usaa, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a'@usaa.com bundle restrictions apply.

[Nick Bryant]

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[Mark Gagnon]

Terms apply.

[Nick Bryant]

I've been looking at child trafficking for many years, and traffickers are vicious people, as I've said before. I mean, whether they're living on the Upper east side or they're in a trailer court in the Midwest, they're vicious people. The difference between the Upper east side and the person, the trafficker in the trailer park is that the person in the trailer park will generally go to jail.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

Prison. Unless he's providing to law enforcement. And then that. That's. That's kind of a different equation. Right. In Minneapolis, like, the prostitutes would do favors for the police officers, dispense sexual favors for the police officers, and occasionally there would be, like, a roundup where they'd pick them all up in, like, a paddy wagon or something like that. But the ones that were dispensing favors to the police officers were told that there's going to be a roundup on Friday night or.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Hmm. Now, there's another email that I mentioned to you. I don't know if you included it here, and perhaps Christos can give it a Google, but it's. Someone emails Jeffrey Epstein and says, this girl, whose name is redacted, says that she loves Jesus and that God is protecting her. Whoops. And then Jeffrey Epstein responds, make sure you dress up like Jesus next time you see her. And to me, it's the most morbid, perhaps, of all the emails. It's so sinister.

[Nick Bryant]

Jay Dyer, do you know he is. He's a comedian.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Nick Bryant]

He called it satanic.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. I don't think he's wrong in saying that.

[Nick Bryant]

So I would have to agree with yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

And Christo's pulling up the exact email and. But, I mean, that's basically the gist of it. It's. There's something. And again, I think people are making the conclusion that this is a young girl that's saying this. It's possible that that's the case, but it's just so ominous. It's so strange. And if it is a young girl that's suggesting, like, oh, God has helped him through hard times, and I believe in Jesus. And then the response to that is, whoops. It just leaves so much room for speculation as to what that means. And almost any type of speculation is going to be the most tragic, morbid thing. I don't know. It's unsettling to me. To me, that's most disturbing.

[Nick Bryant]

I don't think a lot of children and young women that came into Epstein orbit, I don't think that it really was beneficial to them via their mental health. And every Epstein survivor that I've talked to has had major issues.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

And dealing with the trauma and the other things that people have to deal with.

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, this. I think we talked about this a little bit before we started rolling, that it's just such the insidious nature of this type of crime and how this sort of organized crime ring works that I've heard people say, like, why don't the survivors just say the names? And it's like, well, first off, many of them have NDAs where they can't speak about what happened, or they don't have access to the compensation fund from his original conviction. So that's, like, part of it. And, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, the. The Epstein victims compensation fund, you can speak out if you get a settlement from it. You just can't sue anybody.

[Mark Gagnon]

Okay.

[Nick Bryant]

And so it's not. It's not an NDA. It's a release.

[Mark Gagnon]

I see.

[Nick Bryant]

And if you do, and if you want to litigate against someone, you've got to get permission by the attorneys.

[Mark Gagnon]

I see.

[Nick Bryant]

So. And. And basically, what the Epstein Victims compensation program does, it ensures there's no depositions.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

Because depositions lead to disclosures that are unsavory.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

So.

[Mark Gagnon]

So there's that element of it where there's a red tape over who these, you know, survivors can speak out against. And then, not to mention the psychological component of a very wealthy, powerful person coming after you, destroying you, destroying your entire family, either through legal means and just bleeding you guys dry financially or even more sinister means by actually harming you or the People around you, Virginia's you free.

[Nick Bryant]

I got to know her and she was. She was quite the warrior. I mean, she had a horrible. She was. Her father started when she was 8, and then he pimped her out to a friend of his, or no, her father's room when she was 6 and pimped her out to a friend of his when she was 8. And then she ended up in some weird facility that was very archaic and she would run away from it. And she ultimately got.

[Mark Gagnon]

She.

[Nick Bryant]

She was on the streets and she got picked up by a pink pimp named Ron Eppinger. And Ron Ebinger put her in an apartment and then also come in during the day and during the night and. And then after that. And then the FBI got onto Ron Eppinger, and then Eppinger gave her to a friend of his and the FBI kicked the door down in a pre dawn raid. And Virginia was in. In bed with this guy. And then her father was kind enough to let her back into the house and then got her a job at Mar a Lago where she met Maxwell. So. But with her, she was an amazing supernova, man. And you know, the way that she went up against these perps.

[Mark Gagnon]

Whatever happened to Eppinger?

[Nick Bryant]

Eppinger ended up in prison.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's good.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Silver lining.

[Nick Bryant]

So. But Virginia was an amazing person. I'm pretty sure that she suffered from dissociative identity disorder.

[Mark Gagnon]

Almost certainly. I mean, this is the element that we were talking about. So you have the legal and sort of the, you know, implicit intimidation that goes along with speaking out against powerful people. But then there's also the psychological component of enduring this type of sadistic abuse that.

[Nick Bryant]

And then. And Virginia, she was terrified of Les Wexner because of his mafia connections, and she was terrified of Ehud Barack because of his Mossad connections. She couldn't. I mean, terrified. So you superimpose that on what she saw and what she endured. And it's. I mean, ultimately, what happened was her husband started beating on her and she tried twice during the preceding year, and then her husband did a preemptive strike and got custody of the kids. And have you seen that picture of her where she's.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Bruised and battered.

[Nick Bryant]

Okay. So that initially it was thought it was an accident. It was an accident. That was her husband that. That really beat her up.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, how many men failed Virginia Giuffre? I mean, from the day she was born.

[Nick Bryant]

Not only men. I mean, the system. Yeah, the system completely failed her.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Nick Bryant]

And multiple times. And yes, men Too, but definitely the system.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, there's just. I. I can understand the psychology of a woman or a man who's been abused at a young age and why it would affect them. And one of the things we mentioned was that there's the psychological component of being abused, and then that leaves you with a trauma, a scar that exists within you and within your nervous system. And many people, you know, with no faults of their own, will succumb to some type of addictive behavior or some type of coping mechanism in order to deal with that trauma, whether it's drugs, alcohol, sexual addiction, what have you. And then as a result, that can lead to recidivism and more further incarceration. That then affects your story, it affects your testimony, it affects your character and your credibility when it comes time to testify against these powerful people. So you might have someone who's, you know, 35 years old, that is a victim of Jeffrey Epstein, that has had years of drug or substance abuse, that's been in and out of prison, and now you expect them to go in front of Congress or go in front of some type of judge and explain what Epstein did to them when they were 10 and have anyone believe them. So now you're dealing with this assassination of their character.

[Nick Bryant]

So with the Franklin scandal. The Franklin scandal was Republicans and little boys, little boys. Epstein's primarily Democrats. Little girls. That seems to be the partisan divine in our political system. But the vast majority of the boys that I talked to had been in prison, right. And they had come from dysfunctional families. They had been repeatedly, some as young as six, and then at a certain point, they lose their youthful marketability, and they're just expunged. And what you end up with is someone who's very damaged, who is, chances are, a drug addict and, and. Or an alcoholic, and they're going to commit crimes. I remember I was looking for one. I. I had a list of 60 victims, as I said before, and there was one kid named Ru Fox, and I would kind of track him around the country with these databases that I use. And then I. And then he started showing up in Nebraska and. But I could never find him. I had a really hard time finding him. And finally I hired a private detective, and I said, can you find this guy? I mean, I can't find him. And she told me where he was living because she had access to the dmv. And she said, be careful of this guy. He's very, very violent. And so I called him up and I said, rue, my name's Nick Bryan. I'm a journalist. I'm working on. So he had been before Boys Town, and he'd been during Boys Town, and. And I said, I'm. I'm a journalist. He said, are you a cop? And I said, no, no, I'm not. I'm not a cop. I'm a journalist. Are you a cop? And so he must have asked me that like, six times. And I said, no, I'm. I'm not a cop. And. And then he said, well, meet me at this bar, and if you're a cop, I'm going to snap your neck. And so I'm. I'm at this bar, which is one of those bars where people drink until they die. I mean, they might die next week, or they might d. Month, they might die next year, but their. Their goal is to drink until they die. So I'm in this bar drinking a cranberry juice that doesn't really taste like a cranberry juice. I was a little worried about that, thinking that I should probably have had brought some in a box with me. But anyway, my own picaddles aside, so Brew comes in with two buddies of his, and. And he goes back, and then there's a room, an empty room behind the bar. And so I'm there with Ruin. His three buddies. And then Rue grabs me and puts me up against the wall. And Rue is like a human pit bull. He did 10 years in prison. I mean, he lifted a lot of weights. And I was thinking to myself, you know, force comes to worse. I saw the exit. I said, and Rue was the biggest and meanest of them all. So I said, you know, I'm gonna have to. I'm gonna. I'm gonna hit Rue, and hopefully something happens and then I'll be able to get out of that. But he said, how did you know? And then I gave him this documentation that I had on him and where he'd lived previously with a. With a foster care parent. And once he read the documentation, he realized that I was what I. That I was being honest. And so he got rid of his two buddies, and I took him out to dinner and. And he. His thing was vodka and shooting crystal meth. And I eventually dropped him off, and then we talked a few times, and then he kept on saying to me, you opened the wrong door. You opened the wrong door. And because he had slammed that door shut, and I, you know, was talking to him about it, you know, this horrible nightmare of his, and, And, And. And he was dangerous. But I really wanted to get an interview with Him. So we had talked on the phone, he'd been very hostile to me. So my second to last day in Nebraska on that particular sojourn, I thought, I'm gonna throw the dice, I'm gonna drive by his place. And so I. He's working on a car in the driveway and I have no idea what's going to happen. I say, rue, how you doing? And he had drank a lot of Viking that day. So he goes, you know, I've been thinking about talking to you. And I, I said, really? That would, that would be great. And so he needed parts and things like that. I was kind of his gopher for the rest of the day. And then early evening I got an interview from, from him and he just broke down crying. That armor that he wore was taken. He just took it off. And it was the damaged 12 year old boy. The armor had enabled him to go, you know, hang out with criminals, hang out with drug addicts, go to prison. But so the ru fox that I interviewed that night was a 12 year old boy that was really, really hurt.

[Mark Gagnon]

It breaks my heart truly. Ever since having a child of my own, my whole perspective on just people and even just how I interface with people has fundamentally changed. And that anytime I see a really tough, scary looking guy that's got tattoos all over his face and he's just emanating this testosterone and this entire signal to anyone around him like, don't f with me or I'll fuck you up. If you touch me, I'll ruin you.

[Nick Bryant]

That type of energy, that's always room.

[Mark Gagnon]

There'S always just a little kid under that, that didn't feel safe and that wasn't protected and that was failed by the adults around him that were supposed to keep him safe. And it truly breaks my heart. I get emotional even thinking about it. Cause it's like seeing my son and just how precious and pure he is. The idea that. But there's other kids like my kid that didn't have the support system that my son has, that got exploited and abused and now lead this life of, whether it's crime or coping or whatever you want to call it, to try to patch up this wound that never healed when they were a kid.

[Nick Bryant]

It's tragic, but if you look at the numbers, according to the Centers for disease control, 25% of underage girls have been and 5% of underage boys. Most people in the field will say it's slightly conservative for underage girls and extremely conservative for underage boys. But if you just go with the CDC numbers. There's over 50 million Americans, Adam, as minors. So if, you know, if we could take one thing out of our society, if we could take that out of our society, the prisons wouldn't be full, the psychiatric hospitals wouldn't be full. There wouldn't be so many people on disability. I mean, if we could just take that one thing out of our society.

[Mark Gagnon]

Because the cyclicality of it as well. I mean, so many people that abused were themselves abused. I mean, people have speculated that Jeff Repstein himself was abused when he was a kid. I've seen that stated perhaps in his deposition where he kind of reacts uncomfortably to the question. And again, that does by no means does it absolve him for running a sex trafficking organization where he was sadistically torturing young kids, but it does, I think, shed a little bit of light to how insidious and sort of cancerous this type of thing is in a society.

[Nick Bryant]

Some of those guys were. I mean, when I'm talking about. I'm talking about the perps that I wrote about in the Franklin scandal, some of them were probably. But a lot of them weren't. They were just bent.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Nick Bryant]

There was just something about them that was fundamentally bent.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Nick Bryant]

And.

[Mark Gagnon]

And perhaps a more, more robust social service capacity to deal with children that are. That they're able to get help and counseling to help them not continue that, that cycle of abuse.

[Nick Bryant]

Look at the numbers. Over 50 million. And that's a very, very conservative number.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. So it's just tragic. And you.

[Nick Bryant]

There's a lot of people that are walking around that have been sexually abused and no one else knows.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Nick Bryant]

And I had, I knew someone who was sexually abused and his mom said, don't tell anybody. So nobody knows. So nobody knows. So his mom was relegating him to nobody to ensure his silence.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

And to me, now, I know that happens all the time, but that kind of maternal malevolence is mind boggling. But it, but it's, you know, it's happening probably within two miles of where we're talking right now.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, almost certainly. And I mean, there's probably people listening to this that have dealt with, you know, childhood sexual abuse. And if that is you, you're not broken. You know, you did nothing wrong. But if you're able to, trying to talk to someone and getting help for it is probably the most beneficial thing you can do. Because letting that fester in your soul and letting nobody know, I just think is so traumatizing to your psyche.

[Nick Bryant]

I was, my mother married a corporate lawyer and he was very violent to me. And the first time I ran away, I was 12. And I didn't run away because I was a bad student. I was actually a very good student. I was a very good athlete. I ran away that night out of self preservation. So I know what it's like to overcome. So. And I, I was never sexually abused, but just the trauma that I had to deal with was very, very difficult. Very difficult. I saw some shrinks and most of whom weren't very helpful, but I, I had to work through that. And I can just imagine someone that had the trifecta of emotional abuse, physical abuse and sexual abuse. I just had emotional and physical, so. And who knows what would have happened to me if I'd been sexually abused. I probably wouldn't be here.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, I just look at these kinds of emails like the one Christos had up with, you know, this guy saying this girl loves Jesus and God helped her out so much. And just the sort of pathological malevolence. This malevolence just say whoops. It's like it just, it just reeks of just the highest orders of evil to me.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, I mean a lot of this stuff does, you know. Yeah, what we've been going through, I think is very evil. Yeah, I mean we want to be skeptical to a certain degree and not jump in and go downstream so quickly. But I think a lot of the emails that we're going through indicate an unbelievable degree of evil and malevolence.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. I'm curious, who do you think? Yeah, I don't know what if you have an answer for this, but I'm curious, who do you think is the next Jeffrey Epstein?

[Nick Bryant]

Okay, so I was told that there was a Jeffrey Epstein understudy. And I don't know, I, I don't know if that source was correct or not, but at any given time there are various Jeffrey Epstein's trafficking children that are protected. I mean, I know that because I'm a lightning rod for that type of stuff. People contact me all the time. And Jeffrey Epstein and Franklin aren't the only networks that have come around in the last 30 years. I mean, at any given time there are various networks at work that are protected.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now where can people look? What should people be weary of? How would someone identify this individual or this web of individuals?

[Nick Bryant]

Well, with Epstein, yeah, he was identified in 1996. Maria Farmer went to the FBI in 1996 and said that he was had child pornography. And so that was the first time that we know of where Epstein could have been stopped.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. And then still operated for 10 years, pretty much with immunity.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, actually, he offered. Operated till 2019.

[Mark Gagnon]

Fair.

[Nick Bryant]

So.

[Mark Gagnon]

But with no legal recourse up until 2006.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah. So. And, and I didn't know this until recently. There was a. The, the feds in the southern district of Florida drafted a 60 count indictment against Epstein because I just thought that they came in and the feds came in and quashed it. But actually that's not the case. There was a 60 count indictment drafted against Abstein. And, and there's actually an email where it talks about Ken Starr who prosecuted Bill Clinton, who's. If you look at this email, I mean, he's a snake. And, and that talks about the top brass, quote, unquote, top brass, the FBI. They got to go visit Alexander Acosta and, and edify him. Now a U. S. Attorney. There's only two people in the country constitutionally that can tell a U.S. attorney to stand down. One is the attorney general and one is the president. Alexander Acosta as a U.S. attorney is not going to unilaterally cover up a network. That's not going to happen. Alberto Gonzalez, who is the attorney general, is not going to unilaterally cover up a network and go out on a limb. So that cover up in 2007, 2008, that emanated from, I believe, George Bush.

[Mark Gagnon]

Interesting.

[Nick Bryant]

So it emanate from the apex of our political system.

[Mark Gagnon]

What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because I just got a cheat code that I want to tell you guys. All right? I am at an age in my life where unfortunately a normal night out has consequences. Not like, not even crazy drinking. Like just a couple of drinks, and the next day I'm wrecked. Like, my sleep score is bad. My head feels bad. Like on my whoop, it tells me like, hey, you slept like, like crap. And that's why I use Cheers Restore. All right. This is basically a dual action after alcohol aid that supports both my brain and my liver. And it's created after research on a compound called DHM designed for how alcohol actually affects your body. Before, I would just like, drink a bunch of water and hope, but now Cheers Restore actually gives you the actual chemicals to make you feel better. It's been on Shark Tank, it's sold over 30,000 stores, and it's backed by doctors and clinicians. And the promise is pretty simple. You're going to feel 50% better the next day or your money back. All you need to do is Take three capsules after your last drink or before bed. And this isn't for going crazy, all right? But if you're just like a normal adult having a few drinks, it really helps. So the viewers of this channel, great news for you. You're going to get 20% off when you use the code camp. That's C A m [e-mail] Go to cheershealth.com Use the code camp, get 20% off. You're going to go out, have just as much fun and feel way better the next morning to get after it and tell them the good folks over at Camp Gagnon sent you. Now, let's get back to the show. This is, the email here to and from is completely redacted, but it says the subject is Ken Starr. And this is on the 10th of December 2007. Hey, guys, Ken Starr is coming to Miami on Friday to meet with Alex. This is Alexander Acosta. I have been invited. Perhaps it is time for the FBI and I mean the top brass to attend as well. The meeting is at 1 on Friday. I am not extending an invitation to, but I'm keeping you informed. Can you decide what you think is best?

[Nick Bryant]

So there. Alexander Acosta obviously had a lot of heat put on him because There was a 60 count indictment drafted and count 51 was child trafficking, which in the federal system is 15 years to life. Right. That's a heavy sentence. So that 60 count indictment could have put Jeffrey Epstein away for good.

[Mark Gagnon]

And this email seems to corroborate with Acosta's claim. That's a bit hearsay when he's getting inducted into Trump's cabinet, saying, I was told that he was intelligence.

[Nick Bryant]

Intelligence. Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

And perhaps this is when he was.

[Nick Bryant]

He was told that I, I'm working on an article right now about Jeffrey Epstein and his CIA connections and they're very prolific. The New York Times about a month ago came out with an 8,500 word article and it concluded that Jeffrey Epstein was a grifter, which, you know, I mean, that's not too tough, but that he had no connections to intelligence. And, and I've said disingenuous a number of times already, but this was so disingenuous. Jeffrey Epstein had a business relationship with Adnan Khashoggi. And, and there's like five different publications that I found that talk about Epstein's business with Khashoggi. There's a book that talks about Epstein's business with Khashoggi. There is on Wikipedia, talks about Epstein's business with Khashoggi. And Khashoggi was an infamous arms dealer who was part of Iran Contra in the CIA. So the New York Times, I mean, really. And, and it did that with some other people too. That. And, and why is the New York Times covering that up? I can guess because of something like that. Right. Somebody's visited them. Someone's visited editor in Chief. And, and I know someone who worked at the New York Times, and he felt that most of the journalists are on a reservation that they don't even know that they're on. And I had a buddy that was an editor at Harper's magazine, and he said that his colleagues didn't even know that they were on a reservation.

[Mark Gagnon]

Wow.

[Nick Bryant]

But I think, well, at least with the New York Times, that there's middle management people that are probably CIA, right? Or, or getting paid by the CIA somehow connected. So the. And so those eight journalists that worked on that huge article that found that Jeffrey Epstein had no ties to intelligence, maybe a number of them are just that stupid. I mean, maybe some of them did know. I mean, I don't know how you could miss on Adnan Khashoggi and Epstein.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

So obviously there was willful malfeasance there, but where did that come from? It must have come from an editor.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, almost certainly.

[Nick Bryant]

So.

[Mark Gagnon]

So as far as the next Epstein goes, do you think it's connected to this current web? Do you think that that person is potentially in these files?

[Nick Bryant]

I don't know. I was told that there was an Epstein Hunter study through a source. I. That source seemed to know some stuff, but then like a lot of sources, she evaporated. So I, I have no idea. But what I can say is that I've talked to a lot of people who were trafficked in the United States via protected networks. I, I believe that, as I said, there are various protected networks at any given time in the United States.

[Mark Gagnon]

Is there a way to draw an analog with the Franklin scandal? Was there anyone after Lawrence King that then was, you know, leading the charge? Was it, was it passed on internally or was it just completely new thing that springs up?

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah, I, I think once King, I mean, King and Spence were like Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

And Spence killed himself and then King went to prison for 12 years.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then was there a new version of them that sprouts up from the same.

[Nick Bryant]

I don't know. I mean, Boys Town is kind of. They were using Boys Town as kind of a smorgasbord for pedophiles.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

And Boystown is like, was. Was developing all around the country, which really concerned me.

[Mark Gagnon]

Like, it was franchising, you mean, in.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, it wasn't for. It was just. It's a Catholic institution, and they were opening up various branches all around the country. So that concerned me big time. And, and, and actually, it still concerns me. Boys Town concerns me.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. To this day.

[Nick Bryant]

They don't let me on the campus very long.

[Mark Gagnon]

I see.

[Nick Bryant]

Although I'm making a docu series about the Franklin scandal now. And we had. We were very loud with cameras, and they let us hang out for about 10 minutes before they told us, you know, to leave.

[Mark Gagnon]

I see.

[Nick Bryant]

Because Boystown has its own police force.

[Mark Gagnon]

Really.

[Nick Bryant]

It's an incorporated city. It has its own police force. It has its own post office. I mean, it's, it's. Yeah, it's very insular.

[Mark Gagnon]

Bizarre.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

So if you were looking for the next Epstein, but is it possible you would look around a place like that?

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah. There was a famous bank robber named Willie Sutton, and in the 50s and 60s, and Willie was asked, willie, why do you rob banks? And Willie said, well, that's where the money is. And why do people run orphanages or get involved with. I mean, a lot of times, and I'm not saying all the time, there's a lot of good people that have. Working with children, but then there's a lot of monsters also that are working with my children, and that orphanages would be a great place for a monster to work.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right now. When you say an Epstein understudy, do you think this is someone that learned his ways or someone that was also dealing in the same financial blackmail network works?

[Nick Bryant]

I was just told that I, I, it was just exclusively. I mean, I didn't ask about financial networks, but I did ask about sexual trafficking, child trafficking. And she said to me that there was an understudy. I haven't been able to find an understudy, but I, you know, it's. But a lot of these emails are. I mean, I suspected a lot of the stuff that was in these emails because, as I said earlier, human traffickers are vicious, psychopathic people who have no conscience. But I wasn't really able to. Like, I knew that there were, because of these therapists that I knew and some others, Virginia, that, that the kids were definitely under 14 or a lot of the kids were under 14. But some of this other, like, and, and I knew that there was sadism too, but some of this other stuff is. Is pretty new to me.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now. Something that I wanted to ask you And I'm curious to maybe just go through a couple other emails before we depart today. But this is just something I can't really figure out. Epstein's whole arc has very specific moments, key moments that change the trajectory of his life. And we know obviously his relationship with Ghislaine Maxwell in the 90s, his relationship with Leslie Wexner, these things change his life. His hiring at Bear Stearns, they put him onto a path. But it seems like things start to be strange in Epstein's life at the very beginning, when he graduates high school, drops out of college and then gets hired at the most prestigious private school in all of maybe America, the Dalton School.

[Nick Bryant]

So he was hired by Donald Barr.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. The father of William Barr.

[Nick Bryant]

And William Barr covered up not only Epstein, but he covered up Franklin too.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

He was the Attorney General under Bush one, the, the smart George Bush.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

But Donald Barr had been oss.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. Which is the precursor.

[Nick Bryant]

And now he ran this program out of Columbia University for gifted students. They were looking for gifted students. And I have not been able to corroborate that, that that is how he met Jeffrey Epstein. But here was a guy that was militant and fascist and he's gonna, and he's the, the headmaster of Dalton and he's going to hire a guy that doesn't even have a college degree. I don't think that's going to happen unless there's a prior relationship.

[Mark Gagnon]

So this is my question, that Jeffrey Epstein at this point is 19, 20, 21.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah. He's relatively young. Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

And he's already on the path. Like that's what I can't exactly figure out. Did they know that he had this, you know, insidious predilection for young girls at this time? Was this something that he was forced or groomed into? Like it's, I can't understand.

[Nick Bryant]

Barr wrote a book about.

[Mark Gagnon]

Aliens that.

[Nick Bryant]

Are intergalactic sex trafficking, where a 15 year old is graphically raped.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

So when he wasn't being like a, an upright fascist, he was writing those type of books, Space Relations, I think the name is the book. So for him to hire Jeffrey Epstein is completely out of character for him. So I believe, and I had, I can't prove it at this point. I believe that. But when he was running those classes or programs for gifted children, I think that's where he met, probably met Epstein.

[Mark Gagnon]

And how old do you think Epstein is at that time? A teenager.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

So from the time that Epstein himself is a teenager, he's on this track to be Tied in with intelligence and tied in with the government and tied in with the most powerful people in our country.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, I, you know, I think there's gradations of that and you see that with secret societies too. I mean, how far is this person willing to go?

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. And so it's continual tests, I guess.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

But it's just, the path is just so precarious that he's hired at the Dalton School, an elite institution for training the future of America as a college dropout, which is strange by a guy who's extremely militant and upright in his academic discourse, which is very strange. Strange. And then from there goes to Bear Stearns, again, still under qualified and very strange and is put into a very specific unit of Bear Stearns that allows him to meet all sorts of influential people and then gets put on the board of the Rockefeller Institute with again just. All of it is just like so perfectly placed to be this operator. I just.

[Nick Bryant]

Okay, so at Bear Stearns, Bear Stearns was doing a lot of business. Bcci, which was a bank that was probably the dirtiest bank in history, if you can imagine a bank like that. It laundered money for the CIA, it laundered money for drug cartels. I mean every dirty deed that a bank could do, BCCI was doing. Now Bear Stearns and BCCI had a relationship. There's been a lot of people that have surmised that. But that's where Epstein really tapped into his malfeasance was interacting between Bear Stearns and bcci. But I haven't found proof of that. Entirely possible, but I have not found proof of it.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, I'm just, I guess for me, I'm trying to understand when does it, quote, unquote, all go wrong, you know, like. Or is this like his path? And maybe one possible story is that he's an affable guy that's, you know, smart enough and he's able to get into these places with his connections and he knows enough people in order to.

[Nick Bryant]

But his connection, I mean the dudes from a blue collar family and his dad was a gardener for, for New York City.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. So it maybe he's smart enough and he's at this, you know, gifted thing and he's able to meet this guy and you know, Donald Barr really likes him. So he gives him a shot to, you know, teach at Dalton and then from there he's affable and, you know, savvy enough.

[Nick Bryant]

He doesn't last that long.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. But then he goes to Bear Stearns. Yeah, I think from Connections that he makes at Dalton, if I'm not mistaken.

[Nick Bryant]

Yes, Ace Greenberg.

[Mark Gagnon]

And so he's friendly enough and he's smart enough to impress enough people in order to keep on elevating. And then I wonder if he strikes a deal with intelligence and they realize that his pedophilic sort of desires make him extremely easy to control.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, if, if he was interacting between Bear Stearns and bcci, I mean, BCI was doing the dirtiest money laundering, right, that, that you can do. So if that was the case, but I can't prove it, if that was the case, then people would, and, and BCI was heavily plugged into the CIA, then they would realize that, you know, here's our man with Kay and Spence in the Franklin scandal. They were both in Southeast Asia at the same time. Spence was an ABC camera or ABC reporter, and King had a top security clearance in Thailand. And I believe now this is just my extrapolation, I believe that both of them got busted, little boys in Southeast Asia and then they were turned because when they come back to the United States, their careers are like just the trajectory is straight up.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

And, and they're both from working class families. So that's my theory about King and Spencer is when. That's when they got turned.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

I don't know. With Epstein, there's, there's too many things with Epstein that we just don't know. What was his relationship really like with Don Barr? Who was he dealing with? Was he dealing with BCCI when he was at, when he was at verse ones? We don't know.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. And I guess I'm curious, what predates, what does his first offense as a, you know, pedophile, does that happen and then his intelligence connections or vice versa? I don't know.

[Nick Bryant]

I can't answer that.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Nick Bryant]

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. But the two things I do think are linked in the sense that he's able to blackmail with, you know, out having to consult his conscience at all because he's a sociopath, psychopath. And so he becomes really valuable to people operating within the government because he's able to do all the dirty work that the government probably wants done. But, you know, after the Church committee, they can't have it on the books.

[Nick Bryant]

Actually. The. I really wish that the Church committee had done something. I mean, they exposed a lot. Frank Church lost his Senate seat in his next bid. There was a lot of money that came in. Kind of like what we're seeing with Thomas Massie. Right. So I don't think that the church hearings, when Carter came in, he fired a bunch of CIA people. It's called the Halloween massacre. But when Reagan came in, he hired them all back. So, you know, I don't, I don't really think that church commission had much of an effect, unfortunately.

[Mark Gagnon]

I, I just heard it as a theory that after the Church Commit Committee or the Church Commission that it basically exposed so much of the government's doings for the past 30 years. MK Ultra and many other sort of.

[Nick Bryant]

Secret MK Ultra cha. Cointelpro.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. So many sort of secret nefarious things that the government was doing that now were exposed through these acts of freedom of information, basically. And in order to not let that happen again, they start using these third party private citizens to carry out their dirty work. So, hey, we need some weapons moved, we need some blackmail done, we need some stuff to be fixed. We have this guy that exists as just a regular citizen that we can utilize for all of our intelligence needs.

[Nick Bryant]

Needs. I've concluded that. And there are CI people that are good people. There really are not everybody in the CIA. CIA is malignant. But there is a dark, malignant corner of our intelligence.

[Mark Gagnon]

Sure.

[Nick Bryant]

That employs people like Jeffrey Epstein and Lawrence King and Craig Spence. Sure, definitely, without a doubt. And it has a tremendous amount of power.

[Mark Gagnon]

But I just wonder if someone like Epstein comes online because they all of a sudden see this guy that has a high risk tolerance, he's financially savvy, he's working within the CD bank and willing to do really high risk things that could put him in jail for a long time. But he's crazy enough to do it. And he has this predilection for young girls and they say, oh, this is a perfect operative. We're going to scoop him up to do all of our dirty work.

[Nick Bryant]

He was busted for insider trading at Beer Stearns.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's what ultimately, yeah, he leaves on.

[Nick Bryant]

Violation, but you know, he just skipped to the next gig. I mean, nothing, Right. There was nothing. There was no ramifications for him. Was he dealing with bcci? Did he get involved then? Was he bent when Donald Barr hired him? Those are things that we just don't know yet.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

And hopefully we will find out.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now, as of today, Pam Bondi is sort of testifying and under oath explaining why the administration is doing what they're doing and why the files are being released in that specific way. Croesus. Do you have the text messages by chance that have been sent regarding that? I think it'd be interesting just to react to a Few of those. Jesus sent a couple about Thomas Massie versus Pam Bondi discussing Epstein. There's another clip that suggests that perhaps Pam Bondi lied under oath. Both.

[Nick Bryant]

No. That one gets me by surprise. Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

But she's called out for it. Apparently Ted Liu catches her in a lie and then says that directly to her. So are you able to pull these up, Chris?

[Nick Bryant]

She said that Jeffrey Epstein was on this material abusing girls, and then she. I, I mean, then she did 180 degrees on it. I think that our, well, our, our Attorney General has decimated her own credibility. I mean, that's why Todd Blanche is essentially acting as the, the Attorney General at this point, and he's decimating his credibility. So.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. It seems like anyone that is willing to deny what we've all read, even in just these heavily redacted, probably select emails.

[Nick Bryant]

Yes.

[Mark Gagnon]

Is going to just destroy any, Any credibility. So.

[Nick Bryant]

They released 3 million emails and it has this kind of content. Can you imagine what the. The 3 million emails are like that. That haven't been released? Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

So this is a clip from today. I think it happened while we were recording. And yeah, this is. I think it's pronounced Liu Leo. Ted Liu. That basically catches her in a lie. Let's watch. Done. There is no evidence that Donald Trump has committed a crime. Everyone knows that. This has been the most transparent presidency. He's the one I reclaim. My time. I got your answer.

[Nick Bryant]

You said there's no evidence.

[Mark Gagnon]

Belongs to the gentleman from California.

[Nick Bryant]

Okay. I'm gonna put up another document from a witness who called the FBI's National Threat Operation center because I believe you just lied under oath. There is ample evidence in the.

[Mark Gagnon]

Epstein, don't you ever accuse me of a crime.

[Nick Bryant]

I believe you just lied under oath. And this is on videotape.

[Mark Gagnon]

You said there's no evidence of crime.

[Nick Bryant]

I'm showing you. Here is a witness statement who called into the. The FBI's Threat Operations Center. He drove down Trump around in limo. He overheard what Donald Trump said to Jeffrey on his cell phone. He was so angry. He was going to stop a limo and hurt Donald Trump. And he met a girl who said she was raped by Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. She later had her head blown off. And officers at the scene said that could not have been suicide. No one, no one at the Department of Justice interviewed this witness. You need to interview this witness immediately. Epstein should rot in hell. So should the men who patronize this operation. And as we sit here today, There are over 1,000 sex trafficking victims and you have not Held a single man accountable.

[Mark Gagnon]

Shame on you.

[Nick Bryant]

If you had any decency, you would reside right after.

[Mark Gagnon]

After this here with the clue.

[Nick Bryant]

I'll second that.

[Mark Gagnon]

And would you mind pulling up the other clip as well? I think it's. It's pertinent to our conversation.

[Nick Bryant]

Thank you.

[Mark Gagnon]

Mr. Chairman.

[Nick Bryant]

Behind me I have three documents from the DOJ production that are implemented.

[Mark Gagnon]

Would you mind just skipping four minutes in.

[Nick Bryant]

To my right is an email that was sent. Please restore his time.

[Mark Gagnon]

We'll let the attorney general respond and then the gentleman can move. Chairman Question within 40 minutes. You asked me a question. Within 40 minutes. Wexner's name was added back within 40.

[Nick Bryant]

Minutes of me catching you red handed.

[Mark Gagnon]

Red hand. There was one redaction. He's listed as a co and we invited you in. This guy has trumped Arrangements syndrome. He needs to. You're a failed politician.

[Nick Bryant]

Please restore his time. And remind the witness himself there is no credible information. If there were, it would bring the.

[Mark Gagnon]

Case yesterday that he trafficked to other individuals.

[Nick Bryant]

Is that your position as well?

[Mark Gagnon]

My position is any victim who comes forward. Of course. We would love to hear from them. 1-800- call FBI. Did you ask Merrick Garland that the last four years. Did you talk about Epstein?

[Nick Bryant]

I am reclaiming my time. I'm glad you're asking about Merrick Garland.

[Mark Gagnon]

You get a reclaimed.

[Nick Bryant]

This is bigger than Watergate when I.

[Mark Gagnon]

Don'T answer the question.

[Nick Bryant]

This goes over four administrations. You don't have to go back to Biden. Let's go back to Obama. Let's go back to George Bush. This cover up spans decades. And you are responsible for this portion. I want to know at what point. At what point did the FBI and the DOJ decide that Lex Wessner was not a co conspirator. Because our Epstein Files Transparency act requires you. Please put it back on the screen. To release the internal decision about whether to prosecute him or not. And it's not in the files. And it's not in the files for any of these other men.

[Mark Gagnon]

Of the gentleman has.

[Nick Bryant]

May she answer.

[Mark Gagnon]

And he's a hypocrite because he voted against the ban that we were talking about on deep fake AI porn. Only two people voted against it. And you were one hypocrite. The. The gentleman's time expired.

[Nick Bryant]

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

[Mark Gagnon]

Could she answer the question? Chairman, I was wondering. The gentle ladies allowed the Attorney General to respond the way she wants to respond to.

[Nick Bryant]

I have unanimous consent request.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean.

[Nick Bryant]

And so it goes.

[Mark Gagnon]

Goodness. I mean. Shout out to Thomas Massie for Holding feet to the fire. I mean, that's brilliant.

[Nick Bryant]

And Thomas Massey and Rohan have been amazing.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm curious to know what happens from the rest of this. I truly hope that. That you are able to continue your work and that you're able to stay safe in the process.

[Nick Bryant]

I mean, you know, I've been at this a while. Am I supposed to become a certified accountant now or something like that? What are my options? I've been a writer for 35 years, and I've been doing this for quite some time. I mean, if I gave up now, I mean, I guess I could be a parking lot attendant or something like that.

[Mark Gagnon]

I don't think you do very good at that. That.

[Nick Bryant]

No, I don't think so.

[Mark Gagnon]

I think you're better off.

[Nick Bryant]

So, I mean, there's no u turn for me here.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right?

[Nick Bryant]

I mean, this is. This is what I kind of dedicate myself to.

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, I'm glad you're on it.

[Nick Bryant]

And I just want to say one thing. When I was investigating Franklin and I realized it was true, all of it, I just said, man, I'm not going to let these get away with this.

[Mark Gagnon]

And.

[Nick Bryant]

And I made a vow to myself. And, you know, and this is an extension of that vow.

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, I'm glad you're on it. Epsteinjustice.com that's it. That's where people can find you if they want to read more about it. Nick Bryant, nyc.com and we have monthly.

[Nick Bryant]

[e-mail] visit us, sign our petition. We could use donations. Someone asked me why Epstein justice needs donations? And I said to them, when I gave my accountant, the accountant for Epstein Justice, a check last week, I didn't say, well, why do you need this people?

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah, it takes money to run an organization.

[Mark Gagnon]

Of course that makes a lot of sense. And people ask me, at least I see it in the comments. They say, what can I do? I've done a few episodes on Epstein in these emails. They said, what do I do? And I've advised people, if you feel completely overwhelmed by this and you don't know what to do, invest in your local community. Love your family, Take care of your children. Take care of the children of your, you know, relatives and neighbors, and try to preserve what's around you. But if there's people with more of a fight and more tenacity, then perhaps.

[Nick Bryant]

Getting involved in epsteinjustice.com.

[Mark Gagnon]

Exactly.

[Nick Bryant]

Next stop.

[Mark Gagnon]

Exactly. I think that would be the level up that they're able to get involved in actual criminal justice organization to help bring justice to the survivors and bring retribution to the people that have done this malfeasance.

[Nick Bryant]

Absolutely.

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, thank you so much, Nick. I really appreciate you. Let's do this again soon.