Podcast Summary: Camp Gagnon – Episode: Ex-FBI Agent Reveals Undercover Stories

Title: Camp Gagnon
Host: Mark Gagnon
Episode: Ex-FBI Agent Reveals Undercover Stories
Release Date: December 30, 2024
Description: Home to the most interesting conversations on the internet. I'm Mark Gagnon and welcome to Camp!

Introduction to Bob Hamer

(00:00 - 01:55)

Mark Gagnon welcomes back Bob Hamer, a former FBI agent with over 20 years of undercover experience. Bob has previously shared captivating stories about dismantling NAMBLA and infiltrating a Chinese crime syndicate. In this episode, he delves deeper into his adventures within the Italian Mafia, engaging street gangs, and even instances where he was hired as an assassin.

Notable Quote:

• Mark Gagnon (B): "Episode might be my favorite of the three conversations that I've had with Bob. It's absolutely fascinating, and I hope you enjoy it just as much as I did." (00:22)

Infiltrating the Italian Mafia

(01:55 - 06:58)

Bob shares his early fascination with the Mafia, sparked by a research paper in middle school despite warnings from his teacher. His interest in organized crime, particularly La Cosa Nostra, led him to the organized crime squad in Los Angeles. Bob explains the efforts by the Department of Justice and notable figures like Rudy Giuliani in targeting the Mafia during the 70s and 80s.

Notable Quotes:

• Bob Hamer (A): "I've always been fascinated by the Mafia, organized crime, and watching those movies and everything my whole life." (02:15)
• Bob Hamer (A): "We knew that they had been involved in drugs and loan sharking and gambling and trying to figure out how we could fit in." (04:10)

Close Calls and Undercover Challenges

(06:58 - 22:49)

Bob recounts his experience using a Nagra, a bulky recording device, during his undercover work. He narrates a tense encounter where a mobster almost discovers his hidden recorder, highlighting the constant dangers faced by undercover agents. Additionally, Bob discusses the complexities of maintaining his cover story as a screenwriter involved in the drug trade.

Notable Quotes:

• Bob Hamer (A): "I didn't know Tony Soprano shopped at Kmart." (01:06)
• Bob Hamer (A): "There was one time, and again, most of these… there was a. … man purse sitting on the table. The nagra is running." (06:58)

Infiltrating Street Gangs

(22:49 - 62:18)

Transitioning from the Mafia, Bob discusses his infiltration of street gangs like the Crips and Bloods in South Central Los Angeles. He details the strategies employed, including drug buy programs and collaboration with the LAPD's CRASH unit. Bob describes the heightened risks in gang environments compared to organized crime families and shares specific incidents, such as drive-by shootings and confrontations during drug transactions.

Notable Quotes:

• Bob Hamer (A): "I'm dealing drugs in Hollywood and they're saying they control Hollywood." (12:20)
• Bob Hamer (A): "And one night I was just sitting in the truck waiting for them to bring the drugs out from the car. And it was a drive-by shooting." (50:22)

Contract Killing Cases

(63:49 - 98:07)

Bob delves into two high-stakes contract killing cases. The first involves a lawyer wanting his father killed, where Bob adopts the role of a mercenary to fulfill the assassination demands. He narrates the challenges of maintaining his cover, negotiating with criminals, and the eventual arrests resulting from these operations.

In the second case, Bob recounts infiltrating the Mexican Mafia to take down key figures like Robert Salas. He shares the intricate details of setting up meetings, the risks of carrying recording devices, and the tactical maneuvers that led to successful convictions.

Notable Quotes:

• Bob Hamer (A): "The pretense of the meeting is that I can get the job done. That I'm essentially, I'm a mercenary." (66:20)
• Bob Hamer (A): "When I throw the baseball at the surveillance van, you guys come out and arrest everybody." (85:21)
• Bob Hamer (A): "I was there just to protect Mark, but not as an FBI agent. I was there as Mark's friend." (95:56)

Interactions with the Mexican Mafia

(98:07 - 107:28)

Focusing on his work against the Mexican Mafia, Bob explains their operations within Los Angeles, particularly their involvement in the drug trade. He discusses the hierarchical structure led by figures like Joe Morgan and Robert Salas, and the strategies employed to dismantle their network. Bob also touches upon the collaboration with informants and the personal risks involved, including attempts on informants' lives.

Notable Quotes:

• Bob Hamer (A): "He runs things when he was out of prison. Really good looking guy." (98:46)
• Bob Hamer (A): "We ended up doing partial deal. Ends up shooting in the Denny's parking lot." (83:25)

Notable Anecdotes and Lessons Learned

(107:28 - 109:51)

Bob shares memorable moments from his undercover career, including courtroom dramas and unexpected interactions. He recounts incidents like jurors actively paying attention to his testimonies and the emotional toll of dealing with violent criminals. These stories underscore the psychological resilience required in undercover operations and the intricacies of legal proceedings involving organized crime.

Notable Quotes:

• Bob Hamer (A): "It's like, you got to screw with the people, so you just go with it." (85:22)
• Bob Hamer (A): "But yes, I did this … I didn't, I didn't run away. I didn't cry. I'm capable of being an FBI agent." (94:35)

Conclusion

(109:51 - End)

Mark wraps up the conversation by expressing gratitude for Bob's candid storytelling. Bob briefly touches upon another intimidating encounter with a criminal named Milton Parness, highlighting the lingering fears and challenges he faced even after successful operations. The episode concludes with mutual appreciation, hinting at future discussions and deeper dives into Bob's extensive career.

Notable Quote:

• Mark Gagnon (B): "Wow, this is just so crazy. Thank you so much for sharing all these stories, brother. I really do appreciate this." (109:51)

Key Takeaways

• Undercover Complexity: Bob Hamer's experiences illustrate the multifaceted nature of undercover work, from maintaining credible covers to navigating dangerous criminal networks.

• Psychological Resilience: The ability to remain calm and composed in high-stress situations is paramount for undercover agents.

• Collaborative Efforts: Successful operations often involve tight coordination between various law enforcement agencies and informants.

• Legal Intricacies: Courtroom battles are as challenging as field operations, requiring meticulous evidence handling and strategic testimonies.

Notable Quotes with Attribution:

• Bob Hamer (A):

  • "I've always been fascinated by the Mafia, organized crime, and watching those movies and everything my whole life." (02:15)
  • "I didn't know Tony Soprano shopped at Kmart." (01:06)
  • "When I throw the baseball at the surveillance van, you guys come out and arrest everybody." (85:21)
  • "I'm dealing drugs in Hollywood and they're saying they control Hollywood." (12:20)

• Mark Gagnon (B):

  • "Episode might be my favorite of the three conversations that I've had with Bob. It's absolutely fascinating, and I hope you enjoy it just as much as I did." (00:22)
  • "Wow, this is just so crazy. Thank you so much for sharing all these stories, brother. I really do appreciate this." (109:51)

Note: This episode offers an in-depth look into the shadowy world of undercover law enforcement through Bob Hamer's firsthand accounts. Listeners are treated to gripping narratives that reveal the sacrifices and dangers faced by those who risk everything to dismantle organized crime from within.