NYPD Demonologist: "The Boy Climbed the Wall Backwards" | Ralph Sarchie

Summary

Camp Gagnon: NYPD Demonologist - "The Boy Climbed the Wall Backwards" | Ralph Sarchie

Episode Overview

In this gripping episode of Camp Gagnon, host Mark Gagnon engages in a deep and enlightening conversation with Ralph Sarchie, a former NYPD police sergeant turned demonologist. Drawing from his extensive experience, Ralph Sarchie shares some of the most unsettling and real-life exorcism cases he has witnessed, delving into the nature of demonic possessions, the methodologies of exorcisms, and the thin line between faith and the supernatural.

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Introduction to Ralph Sarchie

00:00 - 01:08

Mark introduces Ralph Sarchie, highlighting his unique background as an NYPD sergeant who has encountered numerous exorcisms throughout his career. Ralph sets the tone by recounting a recent incident involving a young boy who exhibited unnerving behavior by crawling up a hospital wall backward, prompting Ralph to reflect on the real and present nature of such supernatural occurrences.

Notable Quote:

"It was either going to be an intellectual exorcism or it was going to be a dirty one. It's more of a battle of wills than anything else."
— Ralph Sarchie [00:18]

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Ralph’s Background and Early Beliefs

02:31 - 04:26

Ralph delves into his upbringing in a typical Italian household in Queens during the 60s and 70s, attending Catholic school and serving as an altar boy. His early fascination with ghost stories and spirits laid the foundation for his later involvement in demonology. Despite his initial fear, personal experiences and a pivotal case involving his daughter inspired him to seek out the Warrens, renowned demonologists, igniting his journey into the supernatural realm.

Notable Quote:

"Over the years in my studies, I got to realize that there is a spirit out there that is in fact real and evil."
— Ralph Sarchie [04:14]

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First Encounter with Demonology and Exorcisms

06:32 - 08:22

Ralph recounts his first investigative case alongside Ed and Lorraine Warren in Saugerties, New York. He describes observing unexplained water phenomena and escalating to physical assaults within the household, solidifying his belief in the existence of demonic forces. This case marked his transition from skepticism to an active participant in exorcism rituals.

Notable Quote:

"I never saw anything, at least that I recognized. It was a matter of faith. My faith tells me that these beings are real."
— Ralph Sarchie [07:11]

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Types of Exorcisms: Solemn vs. Local

18:49 - 19:07

Ralph explains the distinction between solemn and local exorcisms. A solemn exorcism is performed on an individual, involving intense spiritual battle and physical manifestations, while a local exorcism targets a place, cleansing a home from malevolent spirits.

Notable Quote:

"Solemn exorcism is an exorcism over a person. Local exorcism is an exorcism in a house."
— Ralph Sarchie [19:01]

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Details of a Violent Exorcism Case

20:59 - 26:15

One of the most harrowing accounts involves a petite woman subjected to seven exorcisms due to a powerful demon. Ralph describes the intense physical struggle, including the use of restraints and relics, highlighting the unpredictable and violent nature of such possessions. The demon's desire to harm extends beyond the individual, targeting their loved ones, exemplifying the profound threat posed by malevolent entities.

Notable Quote:

"Everything is videotaped. [...] The violence was extreme, you know, and you cannot overcome violence softly. You have to use violence in return."
— Ralph Sarchie [32:30]

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Ralph's Personal Preparations for Exorcisms

31:16 - 32:27

Ralph outlines his personal preparations before conducting an exorcism, emphasizing the importance of being in a state of grace through confession and adhering to a stringent fasting regimen known as the black fast. These rituals are designed to spiritually fortify him for the intense battles ahead.

Notable Quote:

"The black fast is recommended in the Roman ritual for the priest to perform this fast before a solemn exorcism. [...] one meal a day for three days."
— Ralph Sarchie [31:48]

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Exorcism Procedures and Encounters with Demonic Entities

34:49 - 51:52

Ralph provides a step-by-step account of how exorcisms are conducted within a church setting, detailing the prayers, use of relics, and physical interventions required to restrain the possessed individual. He shares an intense moment where a demon visibly reacts to religious symbols, reinforcing his belief in the tangible presence of evil forces.

Notable Quote:

"What I normally do is I would have investigators on every floor if it's a multi, you know, floor dwelling. [...] I apply that same theory to the exorcism is a battle of wills."
— Ralph Sarchie [37:00]

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Differentiating Possession from Mental Illness

45:17 - 46:15

Addressing skepticism, Ralph discusses how exorcists discern between genuine demonic possession and mental health disorders. Comprehensive psychiatric and medical evaluations are conducted to ensure that the behaviors exhibited are not solely attributed to psychological conditions, maintaining a clear boundary between faith-driven investigations and medical diagnoses.

Notable Quote:

"The possession is not 24 hours a day. There are periods of normalcy within this. The person knows that there is something wrong."
— Ralph Sarchie [45:23]

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Ralph’s Experiences with Demonic Communications and Hierarchies

53:15 - 67:55

Ralph delves into encounters where demons communicate, often revealing their oppressive intents. He explains the hierarchical structure of demonic entities, referencing the nine choirs of angelic spirits, and how their power correlates with their rank within these hierarchies. This segment underscores the strategic and calculated nature of demonic manipulation.

Notable Quote:

"There are nine choirs of angelic spirits. [...] depending on where they were within those choirs in the three hierarchies, depends on how much power they have."
— Ralph Sarchie [29:34]

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Local Exorcisms and House Cleansing Rituals

64:48 - 67:55

Shifting focus to exorcising environments, Ralph describes the use of sacramentals such as blessed incense and holy water in cleansing a home. He elaborates on the differences between clearing a residence and performing a personal exorcism, emphasizing the unique challenges each presents.

Notable Quote:

"Elements like Frankincense and myrrh [...] it's the same incense that the church uses in our rituals."
— Ralph Sarchie [65:17]

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Case Studies: Demonic Possession and Successful Exorcisms

98:54 - 108:02

Ralph shares multiple cases, including one involving Bill Ramsey, an individual from England possessed by a demon with werewolf-like characteristics. He details the successful intervention by Bishop McKenna and the challenges faced during the exorcism process, highlighting the unpredictable and formidable nature of these entities.

Notable Quote:

"I just put my relic right on the top of her head. And Joe put the relic on her breastplate. We commanded it in the name of Jesus to leave. And eventually, she came around and she was okay."
— Ralph Sarchie [82:22]

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Differentiating Good Spirits from Demonic Forces

109:25 - 111:47

Ralph clarifies that not all supernatural entities are malevolent. He distinguishes between human spirits, demonic spirits, and elementals, explaining that elementals are neutral and inherent aspects of nature. This differentiation is crucial in understanding the varied manifestations and intents behind supernatural encounters.

Notable Quote:

"There are three types of spirits. Human spirit, demonic spirits, and elementals. The nature spirits."
— Ralph Sarchie [109:30]

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Final Reflections and Continuing the Battle Against Evil

115:00 - End

Concluding the episode, Ralph reflects on the ongoing struggle against demonic forces, emphasizing the necessity of faith, prayer, and spiritual preparedness. He shares personal anecdotes of confronting evil and the importance of recognizing and combating malevolent entities to protect oneself and others.

Notable Quote:

"There's nothing like a broken bone or a house full of demonic spirits, you know, depending on what you're dealing with."
— Ralph Sarchie [106:42]

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Conclusion

This episode offers a profound insight into the real-life experiences of a demonologist who straddles the line between law enforcement and spiritual warfare. Ralph Sarchie’s testimonies provide a chilling yet enlightening perspective on the existence and operation of demonic entities, the complexities of exorcism rituals, and the enduring battle between good and evil forces in our world.

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Additional Resources

• Ralph Sarchie’s Book: Deliver Us From Evil – Available on Amazon and various bookstores.
• Films: Deliver Us From Evil – Adapted from Ralph’s life story, available on Prime and other streaming platforms.
• Ralph Sarchie on Social Media: Follow Ralph on Facebook for updates and insights.

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Note: This summary excludes all advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions and insights shared during the episode.

Transcript

[Ralph Sarchie]

He was a young boy. They brought him to the hospital and he crawled up the wall in front of cops and doctors. Yeah, it happens. This is recent. We're not talking about something that happened back in the 18th century.

[Mark]

This is Ralph Sarchi, a former NYPD police sergeant who has witnessed dozens of exorcisms.

[Ralph Sarchie]

It was either going to be an intellectual exorcism or it was going to be a dirty one. It's more of a battle of wills than anything else.

[Mark]

And today, he will reveal the most disturbing stories of real satanic exorcisms that.

[Phil]

He was a part of.

[Ralph Sarchie]

That's when I got the demon told me right out, demon. And I'm coming.

[Mark]

Are there demons in your house? Ralph Sartre will explain how you can tell if you're being haunted by the demonic.

[Ralph Sarchie]

The demonic will start to act violently. You don't get that in the infestation stage. It's very subtle. The first thing I'm going to do is.

[Mark]

And he even explains how people can unknowingly become possessed.

[Ralph Sarchie]

His daughter was in the hospital. He said, I made a deal with whatever to heal, kill her. The kid was healed. Now it's coming for him. And they lied to me, and I couldn't help them.

[Mark]

Ralph is an absolutely fascinating person whose life story was even adopted into the film Deliver Us From Evil. I'm not gonna lie. This episode freaked me out. I'm curious if anyone listening has had.

[Phil]

Experiences with the demonic.

[Mark]

I would love to know. Please comment below. But without further ado, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Ralph, Sarge. So tune in, light some incense, and welcome to camp. What's up, everybody? And welcome back to camp. We are not in our normal beautiful.

[Phil]

Tent, but instead we are in the home of a very interesting, fascinating man. He's a former cop, a demonologist, and a devout Catholic. I'm here with the wonderful Sergeant Ralph Sarchie. How are you, sir?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Very nice, thank you.

[Mark]

Mark, thank you so much for inviting.

[Phil]

Us into your home.

[Mark]

And more importantly, we have my mother here as well.

[Phil]

She's sitting off camera. Okay. She's not on camera for obvious reasons. So, Ralph, I think the thing that I would like to know before we get into some of the specific cases, and like we had mentioned before, I want to talk about everything from aliens to hallucinogenic drugs to, I guess, the nature of evil as it exists in the world today and how demons and Satan kind of manifest in our world currently. I would like to just start at the beginning. Can you tell me briefly where you grew up and what your belief about the supernatural and the demonic was like as you were a child growing up in New York?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, I grew up in a typical Italian household. You know, I went to Catholic school up to the eighth grade. And of course I was an altar boy. You know, it was just your everyday run of the mill, blue collar existence, you know, in Queens and back in the 60s, the 70s, it was a beautiful time to be alive.

[Phil]

Yeah. Did you have a strong belief in, in the demonic? Had you heard of exorcists in New York? Was this something that was on your radar or something that only came up later in your life?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, what. When I was a kid, I was a pretty much of avid reader. You know, I read a lot. I read a lot about World War II. I read about cops and firemen, and I had a. An interest in spirits, ghosts. I like to read ghost stories. And being a young kid, I wasn't mentally capable of understanding the awesomeness of a demonic spirit or an angelic spirit, even though as a Catholic, I had a rudimentary background in angels and the devil and demons. And over the years in my studies, I got to realize that there is a spirit out there that is in fact real and evil. So, you know, I continued in my studies for many years until I got involved in it.

[Phil]

So you joined the police academy, you become a New York City police officer, and then you hear about Ed and Lorraine Warren. Could you explain who they are and how you got in touch with them?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, like I said, being an avid reader and reading that, that type of genre, I would hear about the Warrens a lot. I read all of their books. You know, any kind of TV show that had them on, I would view it. And it got to the point where, to be honest with you, I was not that keen in getting involved in investigating this stuff. I found it frightening back in those days. That was a lack of faith. And then I had my first daughter, Christina, and I went out shopping one day for clothes and found a book. And I read the book and it was about a man, Maurice Dariault, from, I believe it was Massachusetts. And it was a case that the Warrens handled. And I decided I was going to contact the Warrens at that point and that's what I did.

[Mark]

And the Warrens, what kind of work.

[Phil]

Were they doing if you could explain that to people that might not know who they are?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, I believe back in those days, Ed Warren was probably one of the only recognized demonologists, lay demonologists in the world. And Lorraine was a psychic medium. Clairvoyant. And basically it started out Ed Warren was an artist. He liked to paint. So he was going around, he was painting houses that had the reputation as being haunted. And then he'd bring the painting to the house and tell the people, he'd give him the painting if they would explain to him what's going on in their house. And it sort of snowballed from there. I know that at one point, Ed Warren was very close to becoming a police officer.

[Phil]

Hmm.

[Ralph Sarchie]

And he. He put it on. On hold, I guess, permanently and decided to follow the. The path of. Of a demonologist.

[Phil]

Interesting. So now you're working as a cop. You get in touch with these folks. At this point, you're a New York City cop. You're dealing with New York City crime on a day to day basis, dealing with that part of law enforcement. What is the first experience you have with demonology and perhaps an exorcism that changed, I guess your perspective really cemented your perspective to say that this force is completely real. And what did you see that compelled you to believe that?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, you know, to tell you the truth, I wasn't my first exorcism that I went to. I was not there as a curiosity seeker. You know, I had already believed in this. In this stuff. I had already investigated some cases and witnessed some phenomenon, because I never had any phenomenon prior to getting involved in investigating cases. So it wasn't as if I grew up in a haunted house where I was witnessing these things all the time. I never saw anything, at least that I recognized. So it was a matter of faith. My faith tells me that these beings are real. So I have to believe that they are real. And then getting involved and actually witnessing them in action sort of cemented everything. But the exorcisms, they came later on in my investigations with the Warrens. And that's when I started to really experience how the demonic, you know, they operate.

[Phil]

And what was that first exorcism that you. That you went to?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, I'm talking about a solemn exorcism of a person now. Or is it of a home? Because I remember the first house that I investigated, but there was no exorcism performed in the house. I was. It was my first case. I was brand new. It was in Saugerties, New York, and it was. Now, it wasn't my case. It was Ed and Lorraine's case. So I'm not 100% on the details, but I could tell you what I observed. The family, they lived across the road from one Another, the old man lived in one house, and the rest of the family lived across the road in the other house. And the old man was experiencing a lot of problems. What Lorraine and Ed refer to as a water poltergeist. Now, I don't like the word poltergeist. There's no such thing. But this demonic spirit tended to use water against this man. And he was a real big guy. I mean, he was over 6ft, and he didn't speak that well English. But he was in the other house. And when we said, we're going to go over, he refused to go into the house. This big dude, I'm not going. I'm not going in that house. So when we did the interview in that house, and then we went over to the Focus house, and I noticed the first thing. They had the old asbestos tiling on the ceiling, and they were stained with water all over the place. And it looked like, you know, how grapes look. These were round, circular water stains, and they look like grapes. What was happening, the phenomenon that he was complaining about is that the water would form on the ceiling and he could see it shimmering, and at a inopportune time or a time that he wouldn't expect, it would just splash him. He could be sitting on the couch, it would splash him. He could walk by, it would splash him. So in the pantry was. There was a space between the wall and the ceiling. And I put my flashlight in there, and I looked, and there was a layer of dust, completely undisturbed. So that meant that the water had to be coming from inside underneath. But where. Where was it coming from?

[Phil]

So you checked directly above the tiles.

[Ralph Sarchie]

I looked right in there. There was no water source coming from above that ceiling. It was coming from below the ceiling. And I don't know how that was happening in a natural manner. But anyway, it progressed into physical assaults. This man was being physically beaten, and actually he had a very, very close relationship with his grandson, and his grandson spent a lot of time with him in that house because of the problems. It got so bad that they actually, they ran out of the house, the grandson and this old man. And it was assaulting the old man as he was running. It knocked his hat off the back of, you know, it hit him in the back of the head, knocked his hat off. He ran into the house. Windows were exploding, but they weren't exploding inward, they were exploding outward. So there was, you know, that was the first case I went on, and it was the first time that I. And the only time that I actually Witnessed what we can call ghost rods with my own eyes.

[Phil]

And what is a ghost rod?

[Ralph Sarchie]

It's if. Did you see the demon files?

[Phil]

I'm familiar with it. I didn't actually see it.

[Ralph Sarchie]

There's a. In the, in the war trace case, we got a. We got a phenomenon. It's. It looks like a rod, it's about this long. And I would see these things up at the ceiling area where a lot of the phenomena was taking place. And they were green and red, and I could see this with my own eyes. You know, this wasn't something that we were seeing through video. I was seeing this and I didn't know how rare it was actually, because it was my first case. I've never seen that again with my own eyes. There was only one time that I saw what I call spirit energy with my own eyes, you know, and never again after that. So it was rare.

[Phil]

And these raws, they seem like they're material.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, the energy, it's like a light, you know, like a lightning bug.

[Phil]

Sure.

[Ralph Sarchie]

It would be something similar to that.

[Phil]

Interesting. And when you saw it, did you feel anything? Did it, did it.

[Ralph Sarchie]

I didn't see. I didn't feel anything.

[Phil]

No, you just saw it and you thought, oh, that's marveling.

[Ralph Sarchie]

I was looking up, you know, and I'm like, I'm saying to myself, what the hell is that?

[Phil]

And how many would you say there were?

[Ralph Sarchie]

I saw? Maybe they'd show up sporadically, you know, like a lightning bug. They would show up, you'd see them, and then it would go away.

[Phil]

Now, in demonic literature and demonology, what is that ascribed to? Is there any theory as to what that is or why it's manifesting in that way?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, their energy. So I would have to say that that is a result of the way that energy is manifesting itself. You know, the demonic, they don't need energy from the atmosphere to manifest. They can do it of their own accord. Human spirits, on the other hand, they need an energy source. And that's why, you know, the old. When there is a. You have a ghostly manifestation in the movies, it's a stormy night, that lightning and the thunder. Well, the reason for that is because of the electromagnetic energy in the air, and the moisture in the air conducts the electricity. So it makes it easier for the human spirit to gather that energy and manifest itself. It needs that source. Now, the demonic will use it if it's available, because they'll use the energy, but they don't need it. So you'll see electricity type manifestations at times, because that's what we are. We're electricity.

[Phil]

Right. Like in films, typically, you would see, like, lights flickering and things like that. That's typically a trope you would see in movies of demons and such. Have you seen versions of that?

[Ralph Sarchie]

They like to flicker the lights because it messes with people. But I have a funny story. I was out in California. We were having a big. I don't. A media circus, I guess, for Deliver Us From Evil. And, you know, I was out there, and I was sitting in a room. It was a large room. There was a. There was a. A screen, a movie screen. And there was about three or four of us in the room, a couple of reporters. And we were sitting there, we were talking, and all of a sudden, the lights just dimmed all by themselves into complete darkness. And then the lights went back on. And I looked over to see who was messing with the lights, and there was nobody there. And when I turned back, the reporters, they were like. They were stunned. They were ash and white. They were flipping out because of these lights, just dimming and then going back on. So I asked them, I said, you folks are in here quite often. Did that ever happen before? And they're like, no, it never happened before. So I'm like, okay, don't worry about it. You know, it happens.

[Phil]

I spoke with a guy, he's a friend of mine, and he was trying to get possessed. He doesn't believe in it.

[Mark]

He's a full materialist.

[Phil]

He says, I don't believe in the supernatural.

[Ralph Sarchie]

He's an idiot.

[Phil]

Sure. And he said, I'm gonna try to get possessed. And so he tried. He did all these Ouija boards. He said, yeah, nothing happened. He came on my show, and as he was describing this to me, and it's on camera, I could show you the video Afterwards, as we're speaking, the lights behind him, which at this point had never done this before, they don't have the setting on the lights, and it's never happened since, began to flicker. And I was like, that's pretty weird. And he was like, yeah, are you doing this as, like, a joke? And I was like, no, that's just a weird thing that has never happened before. So we turn the lights off, turn them back on, and then they never flickered again for the rest of the two hours that we spoke.

[Mark]

And I kind of looked at that.

[Phil]

And say, like, oh, that's pretty strange. In the exact moment that he was describing his desire to be possessed, all of a sudden this light's flickering. I thought that was a pretty bizarre thing to happen. And, yeah, we never spoke about it since, and it just kind of lives on its own on my channel. But again, one of these experiences to say that there's a potential electromagnetic frequency that can be disrupted to kind of.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Indicate something extremely common.

[Phil]

Interesting. So now, what happened with this. This gentleman's house that you were at when you investigated it? You see the water? There's dust on top of it. He's getting assaulted. What is the next course of action to cleanse the home?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, like I said, it was the Warrens that handled the case. So I was not privy to, you know, what transpired after I had left. I hope they got the help they needed. You know, I don't know for sure.

[Phil]

Right.

[Ralph Sarchie]

I mean, that's just the way it was. I mean, I, you know, I. I work with the Warrens on cases, and I would hear a year later that the case, you know, came to fruition. I did an exorcism. And now Ed Warren would say, ralph, do an exorcism. So I do an exorcism.

[Phil]

I see.

[Ralph Sarchie]

And then it would be like a year later I'd hear, oh, that family out there, everything's good.

[Phil]

Now, could you explain the difference between a solemn exorcism and a local exorcism?

[Ralph Sarchie]

All right. Solemn exorcism is an exorcism over a person. Local exorcism is an exorcism in a house.

[Phil]

So with this guy's house, that would be a local exorcism. Now, what was the first solemn exorcism that you saw? Or perhaps not the exact first, but maybe one of the early.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Remember the first one I was at.

[Mark]

But one of the early ones.

[Ralph Sarchie]

If I sat here and I thought about it, but it might take me a while. We're not going to get.

[Phil]

Yeah, we got to feed the dogs.

[Ralph Sarchie]

I just can't. I just for the life of me, I cannot remember. I'm trying to put myself back in because, you know, that I would be so apprehensive that it wouldn't even be funny because in. In my mind, the exorcisms was from the movie the Exorcist. Of course, I'm getting ready to pull them down from the ceiling and deal with the vomit and the head spinning, and then it was absolutely nothing like that.

[Phil]

But what would you describe it as? If you could give, like, a specific example from any case, the best way.

[Ralph Sarchie]

That I can describe a solemn exorcism, no matter what's going on, Because Father Martin, he had two terms, either an intellectual or a dirty. It was either gonna be an intellectual exorcism or it was gonna be a dirty one. They're anticlimactic. It's more of a battle of wills than anything else, with the exception of maybe one that's violent. You know, they're different. Yeah, they're very, very different. And in most of the exorcisms that I assisted in, where they were extremely violent, there was no dialogue. There was very little dialogue. It was all growling and moaning and cursing and vileness. There was no trying to outsmart your opponent.

[Phil]

Could you tell us a story from a violent exorcism?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, we had an exorcism of an old. Of a woman. All right. She had to be about probably £90, 100 at the most. Very tiny, little petite woman. And we fought with her for two hours in the pew.

[Phil]

So what was the context leading up to this? Who had told you about the case?

[Ralph Sarchie]

This was a case that Ed and Lorraine Warren. Ed and Lorraine Warren were working on. And, you know, when I started to investigate cases with them, I wound up handling a lot of the cases that they were working on because some of them take a few years to deal with. You know, they don't just. This doesn't happen. It does, but it doesn't.

[Phil]

Right.

[Ralph Sarchie]

And she was very violent.

[Phil]

So you got a briefing from Ed and Lorraine, and you showed up. She was in a church.

[Ralph Sarchie]

This progressed from a. It was an infestation case to a possession case. That progressed, meaning the problem started to happen in the home. You know, things getting thrown around, things disappearing. The scratches, the smells, the noises, you know, all of the things that come along with the infestation and the oppression case cases. And it progressed to the point where the woman actually wound up getting possessed. I almost mentioned her name, and I try not to do that, but, you know, she has passed. She passed on. And there was about seven exorcisms for this woman.

[Phil]

And had you gone to her home before?

[Ralph Sarchie]

I was in her home, yes.

[Phil]

Okay. So is that the first time you met her?

[Ralph Sarchie]

I was sitting. I was. Now, this. This. This home was in. It was in Connecticut, and it was built by midgets. It was a tiny house. No, seriously, it was a tiny house. And, you know, energy builds up in small spaces. So it was very difficult to be in that house because of the, you know, the atmosphere, the. When you walked in, the negativity, you could feel. You could. It was palpable. You could feel it when you walked into the house and Ed said to me, actually, we were having a class that night, and the phone had rang, and Lorraine picked up the phone, and she said, ed, it's so and so, and she wants to speak with you. And he got on the phone, and he was talking, and then he got off and he says, okay, I want Ralph, John, Scott, and whoever else out on the porch. So we. We let. We went out on the porch. He says, we're going over to so and so's house. You know, there's problems over there. So we went. Ed tells me, go up in the attic and, you know, stay there for about a half hour, you know, and. And observe. So I'm like, all right. So I go into the attic, and I sat there for a half hour, and nothing took place. But I find out a couple of days later that the last investigator that was up in that attic had a picture frame thrown at him, you know, And I wish Ed would have advised me of that fact, you know? Cause it was in dark. Ed liked to conduct investigations in dark, and I don't like doing that. I want to see what the hell's going on, you know, I want to be in darkness. I want to be able to see.

[Phil]

And you were alone in the attic?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah, I was there for about a half hour. I went downstairs, and then, you know, we ended the investigation.

[Phil]

And when you saw the woman for the first time, she was friendly, amicable?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah. Dogs. Dogs in the house. Husband, daughter. Very nice people.

[Phil]

Did they seem concerned about what was happening?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Oh, yeah.

[Phil]

And so they were a little freaked out.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Oh, yeah.

[Phil]

Okay. But nothing within them that you.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, no, not at this point. This was still early. You know, we were talking about at least an oppression at this particular point.

[Phil]

Got it.

[Ralph Sarchie]

But for her exorcism, she got violent. And we fought for about two hours with her, you know, in that pew.

[Phil]

So. So how does it progress? How do you go from a home that, you know, has some oppression to then violence? Like, what are the next steps?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Oh, well, you know, she got possessed. So I'm. I'm skipping from the house to the solemn exorcism.

[Phil]

And how does she get possessed?

[Ralph Sarchie]

It broke her will down enough to actually possess her.

[Phil]

And does she invite this spirit into her?

[Ralph Sarchie]

No, she didn't invite it. No, no, she didn't want this. She couldn't resist it. She could do nothing to stop it from happening. I don't know why. We don't. You know, we don't know the answers. God allows it. That's the only reason why we know as God allows it. And, you know, when I did the demon files a couple of times, we would ask questions to the spirits in the location is what gives you the authority to attack this family? And we would hear, because I'm allowed. You know, it's something that I knew that God allows it to happen, and it doesn't happen unless he allows it. So when I hear. When I hear this spirit telling me, well, I'm doing this because I'm allowed to do it, I understand that God has given this spirit permission to do what it's doing.

[Phil]

Now, are you hearing that audibly or is it just something that can hear it?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Usually with our equipment, we're hearing it through recordings.

[Phil]

You're hearing it through recordings?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, we're using recordings devices.

[Phil]

So you have recordings of these audio transmissions saying I'm allowed was on the.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Show the Demon Files. Wow.

[Phil]

I mean, that's remarkable.

[Ralph Sarchie]

So when we went through our evidence and, you know, my team would show me, all right, listen to this. And I'm hearing, well, it's because I'm allowed or who gave you the authority to attack this family, Woody? The father. It's giving me the name of the father. And then I later find out that he made a deal with whoever, according to his words.

[Phil]

So when you say he made a deal, did he explain what that deal was?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, yeah, his daughter was in the hospital dying, and he made a deal with what? He said I made a deal with whatever to heal her. So now the kid was healed, now it's coming for him. And they lied to me and I couldn't help them.

[Phil]

So the house has this oppression and then it builds up to more violence within the home.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, the demonic will start to act violently. They'll start throwing objects around, physical assaults. You don't get that in the infestation stage. It's very subtle, it's very minor, the things that happen. And it progresses depending on a lot of factors. If it's a low level demon, it takes time for it to progress to the next stage. If it's a devil, it could progress very rapidly. Now, we believe that some of the people or some of the demons that possessed this woman were devils. They were powerful demons, and that's why it took such a long time to free her.

[Phil]

And there's a hierarchy of demons. Yes, and some will be lower level with less ability, and then some will.

[Ralph Sarchie]

There are nine choirs of angelic spirits. And depending on where they were within those choirs in the three hierarchies, depends on how much power they have. It's in their nature. They're not like us. Their being is their nature. Our nature is to be human. Their nature is totally different. Their nature is what they are.

[Phil]

Now, did you go back to the house prior to the violent point? Did you return back to the home and see anything?

[Ralph Sarchie]

I never went back to that house after the first time I was there. That was the only time I went there. It had already progressed to a full blown possession, genuine possession case. So whatever dealings we were having were going to be at the church unless Bishop McKenna decided we need to be back at the house. Which he's done.

[Phil]

Right. So for this case, you get a call one day and they say, hey, we're going to go to the church, we're going to perform this exorcism. And who was it that called you?

[Ralph Sarchie]

I can get a call from one of Ed and Lorraine's investigators or I get a call from one of the nuns, Bishop McKenna.

[Phil]

So now you're prepared to go into this church to perform ostensibly some type of violent exorcism. I'm assuming they told you at this point that there was some degree of severity.

[Ralph Sarchie]

No. Nobody tells you anything. You just go and you deal, whatever you deal with.

[Phil]

And how do you prepare to go into a church to do an exorcism like this? What is the personal preparation that you take?

[Ralph Sarchie]

What, me personally?

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, when it's a solemn exorcism, the first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to make sure I'm in a state of grace, meaning I'm hitting the confessional. And I was in a confessional once a week back in those days, you know, and the next thing I do is I would perform the black fast, meaning I would need at least three days before to prepare myself and I would do the black fast.

[Phil]

And what is the black fast?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, the black fast is recommended in the Roman ritual for the priest to perform this fast before a solemn exorcism. And it's one meal a day for three days. And there's praying, a lot of lots of praying in between, but it's one meal a day. And then you get to the church and you prepare the person for what's to come. Put them in a straitjacket or we're going to put them in soft restraints.

[Phil]

And so what time of day is this that you're going to the church?

[Ralph Sarchie]

It's in the morning.

[Phil]

Okay. So you arrive at the church in the morning. And who is with the woman?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Her family would bring her. You know, sometimes they'd show up by themselves. We didn't like that. You know, we didn't like that. If they come by themselves, we usually like somebody to drive them because we don't know what kind of condition they're gonna be in at the end. You know, that woman that we were talking about ended up in a hospital after one exorcism. So, you know, these things, they happen. She suffered a broken rib. It hap these things. The violence was extreme, you know, and you cannot overcome violence softly. You have to use violence in return. So she suffered a broken rib. Everything is videotaped.

[Phil]

Were you at that one?

[Ralph Sarchie]

I was at that one, yeah.

[Phil]

Okay.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Everything is videotaped.

[Phil]

And so these multiple exorcisms all happened in the church.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah.

[Phil]

I see. And so when you go there, it's the family. They bring her.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Sometimes it's a family.

[Phil]

And then is she ever coming on her own volition? Is she coming herself or is she resisting?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Sometimes they do. We don't like that. We don't want somebody that is we feel is possessed and we're going to perform an exorcism on. We don't want them to come to the church by themselves. In the same vein, I don't want to drive them to the church in my car either. I don't want a possessed person behind me or next to me as I'm operating a vehicle on the way to an exorcism. Try to avoid that. So we prefer they have some kind of support system. It doesn't always work out that way, but it is what it is.

[Phil]

So then at the church, there's the exorcist and is a priest, and the possessed woman, her family. Was there anyone else that was there?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Their assistants.

[Phil]

I see. So the exorcist assistants.

[Ralph Sarchie]

It could be one of us or there could be eight of us, depending on the circumstance, depending on who's available and what the circumstances are.

[Phil]

And now, how does it begin? How does this start? The nature of the exorcism in this specific case?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, in this particular case, we had no restraints. We had no soft restraints, and we had no straight jacket. I procured them. Don't ask me how, but I procured them because we needed them. And she's in the church. She sits in the first pew. And she might go to confession beforehand. You know, one of the assistants might be in the confessional beforehand. I never recommended that. Because what I don't want is my fresh sins in that priest's head when that demon is going to be probing him to see what information he can get. So I don't want that.

[Phil]

Because they might know your weaknesses.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, they might. They might find out what the sins I just confessed are. When I go to another priest outside, there's no way that devil's gonna know the sins that I just been forgiven for. But if they're fresh in that priest's mind, he might somehow grab onto them.

[Phil]

And what's the concern? If they know your sins, they can use that against you.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Oh, yeah, they're gonna blurt it out, you know, or they'll hone in on me and use it against me.

[Phil]

The possessed person can blur it out.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Oh, wow.

[Phil]

And you've seen that happen before? Something that you said in confidence is now being blurted out by someone?

[Ralph Sarchie]

No, I've never witnessed that. Know that. It's, it is certainly possible, but I, I, I've seen some assistants have overstepped their boundaries in their zeal, you know, to help the person and the demon, let them know that they made a mistake.

[Phil]

I see.

[Ralph Sarchie]

You know, I've seen that.

[Phil]

Right.

[Ralph Sarchie]

And it was in words, actually. Wow.

[Phil]

So she's sitting at the beginning of this pew. And does it begin with a specific type of liturgy or some type of specific prayer?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah, the bishop would start the litany of the saints, and that's with his back facing the altar. Now that the Eucharist and the tabernacle is removed prior to anybody getting into the church.

[Phil]

And what's the reason for that?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, we don't want it. We don't want any sacrileges in front of the Holy Eucharist.

[Phil]

I see.

[Ralph Sarchie]

So we put it in the back.

[Phil]

So the universe would not be used as a tool in some capacity.

[Ralph Sarchie]

It can be, and it has been. Okay, but in certain circumstances, and it's never exposed, it's covered in a monster. In a monstrance, it's covered. So there could be no blasphemies directly at the Eucharist because someone could try.

[Phil]

To spit on it or try to.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, it's in a mantrance. It's covered. You're not going to get at it. But they could be verbal and, you know, we don't even want that.

[Phil]

I see. So the Eucharist is removed, Liturgy of the saints begins. And then what does the woman do at that point?

[Ralph Sarchie]

I mean, each exorcism is different, but after the litany of the saints, then the exorcist will come down and stand in front of the possessed and start the Roman ritual. And that's usually the St. Michael prayer. And start with the St. Michael prayer. Hail Marys. We'll throw some Hail Marys in there. They could be said throughout the exorcism. You know, the Exodus can stop right then and there. And we're going to pray Hail Mary as we pray the whole rosary one time. Fifteen decades in that church during an exorcism. So it depends on the exorcist himself, what he feels he wants to do and how he wants to proceed. Once the Roman ritual is completed in its entirety from beginning to end, then the priest can go back into certain parts of the Roman ritual. If he observes a reaction that he might get from the demon during a certain part of the ritual, he'll go back and he'll repeat it.

[Phil]

I see.

[Ralph Sarchie]

And during the exorcism, the stole is applied around the head of the person. There are relics that are applied to the person. Holy water, blessed oil is put on the person throughout the exorcism. Depending on how the exes feels, he's going to proceed with that.

[Mark]

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[Phil]

So now, in this case, at what point did the woman start to get violent?

[Ralph Sarchie]

We were into the exorcism for a good bit, and then the violence starts. You know, if I remember correctly, the first sign of violence was on herself. She tried to pull her own hair out, tearing out her flesh, trying to. So we would have to grab her hand to stop her from tearing at herself, and that would turn into her trying to pull the hand up to bite, you know, bite the hand that was restraining her or trying to get at this flesh with her nails, trying to twist around. So the investigator is now moving and trying to negotiate, trying to stop getting assaulted and whatever, at the same time protecting the woman from assaulting herself. It's a little twisted. The person that's trying to assault you, you're trying to prevent from assaulting herself. It's a little, you know, it's not natural.

[Phil]

Right.

[Ralph Sarchie]

But that's, you know, and that was about two hours worth of. Of that fight with her.

[Phil]

Now, she saying anything? Is there any type of auditory moment?

[Ralph Sarchie]

And there's a lot of yelling, laughing, mocking, you know, a lot of gibberish, a lot of. Lot of crap. They pull this kind of stuff. It's. You look at them and they behave in a manner that is very childish. You know, the behavior is very childish, and they do that a lot. It's a psychological ploy, is to try to. There's no demons here. There's no. This person's nuts. You know, no demon would behave like this. You know, those kinds of ploys. And it's a good exorcist that nips that in the bud. That's the pretense. Once that pretense is destroyed, then there's no more of that.

[Phil]

I see. Now, a skeptic might listen and say, oh, perhaps this woman has, you know, a mental health disorder. They might have some type of, you know, bipolar schizophrenia, where they're hearing things and they're acting in a way that's abnormal. How can an exorcist discern whether someone is having a mental episode or a proper possession?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, they're going to go through an extensive psychiatric background along with a medical background.

[Phil]

That's required with some type of board certified psychologist.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, we're going to check to see if there's any kind of mental illness or history in the family. We're going to look into these things. The thing is that a person who is mentally ill, they don't know they're mentally ill and they're mentally ill all the time. Person who's possessed goes through periods of normalcy, meaning the demon. The demon might be present 24 hours a day. It might not be present 24 hours a day. The possession is not 24 hours a day. There are periods of normalcy within this. The person knows that there is something wrong. They might not understand it, but they know that there's something wrong.

[Phil]

I see. So in the periods of normalcy, they could reflect on the moments of possession.

[Ralph Sarchie]

They're looking for help. What's wrong with me, Mr. Saatchi? You're not going to believe me, but that kind of stuff. And then there are other people that go into possession and they black out for hours, sometimes days. They don't remember what they've done. So we're relying on the family members, the people around them, what was going on? Well, they weren't acting like Frank was not acting like Frank. Frank was acting like a babbling idiot, like a fool, these kinds of things.

[Phil]

Now you're saying that the woman is laughing, she's kind of yelling, she's convulsing, trying to fight, you know, the people restraining her. Have you ever seen moments where the possessed would say things that are in other languages or maybe say things that seem like a language that is. You've never heard before?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah. And what we've taken great pains to try to track down the origins of these languages. We would use, you know, linguistics professors to listen to these, you know, the tapes that we have to try and give us some kind of an idea on what we're listening to. There was one. We don't know what the language was and we believe that it was one of these Afro Caribbean curses put on this particular person and this, this, this, this voice or wording that was coming from her. We don't know what language it was. Like I said we would look into it, but I'd even go to the, to the, to the deli with the Indian guys and say, hey, listen to this. Tell me if you recognize what this is.

[Phil]

You know, interesting. And does it ever sound like not their voice?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Sometimes it would be different. It would be a different octave. It happens, but not a whole lot.

[Phil]

Because it's still Ultimately possessing their body. It's their vocal cords. It wouldn't be.

[Ralph Sarchie]

It's. It's not beneficial to them to. To utilize their own vocal cords or they utilize their own voice. Even though they don't have a voice box, they do it. Sometimes. Sometimes they'll, you know, they'll. They'll growl. This guttural growl coming from these people. You know, it's usually when the priest is putting a relic on them or using holy water, a sacramental, the reaction, like Bishop McKenna would hold a crucifix up in front of this woman and say, it is Christ crucified that commands you. And the demon would laugh, and then the bishop would put the relic of the true cross on the breastplate, and that laughter would turn into growling or moaning or yelling. You know, so it's. You're fluctuating one minute from laughing to the next minute to growling or yelling or cursing or some abnormal crap right now.

[Phil]

As a police officer in New York City, you've had no shortage of restraints. I'm sure you've had to restrain people of all different sizes. And I'm sure you perhaps had to restrain a 90 pound woman before. Did you feel like this woman you were restraining had a strength beyond what you had experienced in the past?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, it was definitely a strength that she shouldn't have had, that's for sure. But it was different. When I'm restraining a bad guy, I'm hitting, tearing, ripping, punching, kicking over here. I'm not doing any of that. I'm trying to control this person with the least amount of force that I could possibly use. I don't want to break any this lady's bones. I really don't want to do that. In the same vein, I don't want to get punched in the face either. You know what I mean? So you try to balance it, but she had strength that she should not have had.

[Phil]

And now how long does this specific exorcism go on for and how does it end?

[Ralph Sarchie]

This particular one was about two hours. And I assisted at another one of her exorcisms that was about an hour and a half around that time. And there were only three of us during that exorcism. So I spent that whole time crouched on the pew, holding Harris with both my hands to keep Haram as immobilized as possible, you know, all the while trying to stay away from her lunging at me, trying to bite me. Wow. And I had to put all my weight on that to keep her immobile.

[Phil]

And then how does it End.

[Ralph Sarchie]

The bishop stops and the demon retreats. They leave. As soon as we're done, they leave. They don't want to be there. They have to be there. And when they don't have to be there, they're no longer there. They go.

[Phil]

And then this woman specifically came back to her cognizant mind.

[Ralph Sarchie]

It was not a successful one. The people usually tell us it's gone. They'll tell us it's gone. I don't feel it anymore. It's not there. They know. And other people. It's just we have no idea.

[Phil]

So now, what ended up happening with this woman? She had seven exorcisms. And how does her work actually?

[Ralph Sarchie]

She was freed.

[Phil]

Oh, really? Were you at the exorcism where she was freed?

[Ralph Sarchie]

No, I wasn't at her final exorcisms, no.

[Phil]

Wow. And what did the husband think of all this? Knowing that he had sort of made this deal? Did he communicate anything? Did he feel guilt?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Husband? He was badass.

[Phil]

What do you mean?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, when the news found out about this, they were camping out on Hollon, so he came out with a shotgun and put a couple of rounds in the air and chased him off of his property.

[Phil]

Oh, wow.

[Ralph Sarchie]

So, yeah, wow. Just unfortunately, he wasn't prepared to deal with demons.

[Phil]

Right. And I guess that is the concern if you sort of invoke anything to help you, you know, broadly speaking, if you're saying, is anything listening, help me with this specific issue that I'm having. You can invite negative spirits or demons into your life.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, I couldn't understand, and I did question them. I didn't have a really good rapport with this gentleman that you're referring to because of their lying to me. It wasn't exactly the way I wanted to walk away from that case with those little kids in it, but I asked him, what the. Wouldn't you pray to God? He says, I pray to anything that was out there. That was his response. Well, there was something out there and it hurt him. And his case didn't come to fruition. He still has his problem. I didn't perform an exorcism in his house.

[Phil]

So did you. Did you know this to be a fact, or are you presuming that he still has an issue?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, I know it.

[Phil]

Oh, really?

[Ralph Sarchie]

I know it.

[Phil]

And so in the home, there's still problems?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah, of course.

[Phil]

Manifesting go away by itself. I see. And he didn't want to have some type of exorcism for him?

[Ralph Sarchie]

No, he lied. They lied to me. So I didn't proceed.

[Phil]

And do you know what happened to them as of today? Do you know what they're the. Wow.

[Ralph Sarchie]

They're angry with me.

[Phil]

Oh, really?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Oh, wow. As a matter of fact, I got a phone call from Dr. Phil's producer one day. Yeah. We got contacted by these people. I says, I'll come on your show. I said, but I want the other two families to come on also. Not just them. Let's have more on, you know, the whole family, the everybody, you know, I did three cases for Destination America. I said, let's have the other two families on. I helped them. You know, why are you just going to have the family that, you know, we didn't get along, have everybody on.

[Phil]

I see.

[Ralph Sarchie]

But there was no. We weren't going to continue with the demon files. And I knew it at this point. So I was. I said, we're done. I'm not giving this family any more of my time. If we would have continued with the show, I would have said, Dr. Phil, book it. I would have been on his show with bells on. You know, there would have been great marketing for the show, you know, and I would have done it. But to go on a show, to talk with these knuckleheads, there's. There's no upside.

[Phil]

Right. What was the. The other case or the other two cases that were more successful where it worked out with the demon file specifically? Can you take us through the beats of some of the other cases?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, you have the War Trace, Tennessee case. I just talked to Cindy the other day.

[Phil]

And what happened in that case?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, there was some. There are situations that I'm not going to go into.

[Phil]

Sure.

[Ralph Sarchie]

All right. People have to understand that there is no magic wand that gets these demons away from you. It takes faith and it takes a relationship with God in order to do that. And if there's a problem, God allowed it for whatever reasons, and if you receive help for it, then you have to take responsibility for your life. And you really need to change things, and you need to. To be responsible enough to keep these things away from you now.

[Phil]

Right.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Because in scripture, it says that when a demon is cast out, it'll roam the earth, and then it'll go back to its home to find it all swept and clean. And this time it'll come back with seven more powerful than itself. Basically, what that is referring to demonic possession, but it pertains to homes also, meaning that if a demonic spirit is cast out and you don't change your lifestyle around, then it's going to come back and it's going to come back worse on you. So when people don't do this, their problems continue.

[Phil]

It's like rehab. You know, you might get clean from a drug, but if you don't live a life of sobriety, you can become addicted again.

[Ralph Sarchie]

That's right.

[Phil]

I see.

[Ralph Sarchie]

That's right. And meaning, all you do is you go hang out with people who are using that drug again, and chances are you're going to wind up using it again. So you come out, you go somewhere else, and you live your life there, and chances are you won't have that habit. It's a great analogy.

[Phil]

So what can you share from the Tennessee case? What did you hear prior to and when you showed up, what was happening?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, the Tennessee case was. It had a history. There was a lot of negativity in that house. There's also word that one of Al Capone's gang owned the house because there was a train that went right in front of the house. So it was great for bootlegging. We heard there was might have been a couple of hits, mob hits in the house. There was a couple of domestic violent murders in the house. There was a history of drug use, a lot of bad stuff. And the house was located in a very, very bad spot as far as electromagnetic energy is concerned. You had power lines, you had a stream, and you had railroad tracks, and the house is right in the center of it. All of those things conduct electricity. So you had a swirl of electricity around this property, which gives it the prime, you know, situation for spirit activity. There is a lot of human spirit activity in this house, but there was a lot of demonic spirit in it also. And it was a fascinating situation with the family that moved into it. The daughter, the young daughter, Lily, she has ability, I think, believe she was 11 years old, she has ability to see spirits. And she told her family, there's spirits here. She call them shadow people.

[Phil]

And what did she see?

[Ralph Sarchie]

She saw shadows.

[Phil]

I see.

[Ralph Sarchie]

And they didn't believe her. And they moved in. And then things started to happen to the family. And then they did believe her. They were starting to get scratched and pushed around. Things were moving. If I remember all the things happening in that house, Growling in her ear, that happened while we were there, actually. She went outside and this thing growled in her ear. You know, I told her, don't go outside. Stay in the house here. You know, I don't want to, you know, don't go anywhere by yourself. And I did an exorcism in the house, and we got a Lot of evidence. We got a lot of voice, a lot of. I don't use those. Those things that these paranormal investigators use, like these REM pods and electronic equipment. I only used a tape recorder and a video camera. That's it. I never used any other stuff. But I got guys on my team that brought these instruments in, and I utilized them for the. For the show. And they. They worked pretty good as far as I'm concerned. You know, we picked up a lot of evidence, a lot of EVPs that were class A direct, you know, to a question very, very consistent with the history of the house. So it was a very good investigation.

[Phil]

Do you have a specific example? What was something that was asked that then was answered?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, there was. We. We had heard that somebody had gone to that railroad track and either hung themselves or jumped off the trestle. So we went to the railroad track, and we started to. We started to pose some questions. And the name that we got was Eddie. Who jumped. Who killed themselves on the railroad tracks, Eddie? We did this about three or four times and got three or four Eddies. That doesn't happen. You know, this is a receiver that's being, you know, being manipulated at a high rate of speed. So the frequencies are going very rapidly, and these spirits are able to utilize the energy from the frequency to speak through it. I don't know how this stuff works. Like I said, I don't use this stuff. So I didn't know. And, Eddie. So we go back, got some information on the. About the porch area, that somebody might have died on the porch. And that's when I got the demon. It said it was a demon, told me right out, demon, and I'm coming. That's what it said. So when we went in the house and we asked Cindy, did anybody ever commit suicide on the train tracks? She says, oh, yeah, that was Eddie. He walked through the. Through the. He worked in the barn. He came from the barn over the lawn onto the train tracks, and he jumped off.

[Phil]

Hmm.

[Ralph Sarchie]

All right, so, you know, we got a class A evp, Eddie. Why did we get that as many times as we did?

[Phil]

Now? Cindy was the woman living in the house.

[Ralph Sarchie]

She owned the house. Yes.

[Phil]

I see. Hmm. So now, what happened in the house and how did it. How were the demons expelled from the domicile?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, I believe there was at least one demon in that house. I can't be 100% sure, but I believe there was one demon. And I did an exorcism in the house from the basement. I started in the basement and Went up to the attic. That's where I believe this demon entered through the attic.

[Phil]

And what makes you think it came through the attic?

[Ralph Sarchie]

That the girl, Lily, that was her bedroom and she was the focal person. And I just believe that this thing entered the house through the attic. I don't know how I feel that, but that's what I believed. It came in through the attic upstairs.

[Phil]

Now, you explained the process of doing a solemn exorcism. What is the process for a local exorcism?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, I would use sacramentals. I would have blessed incense. I have my holy water and my blessed salt, and I would have the incense burned throughout the whole entire house. I had plenty of thurible senses, and I give them all to my investigators, and they would go and put them in all the rooms.

[Phil]

Is there a specific scent or a specific incense that I use?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Frankincense and myrrh. It's high cherish incense. It's the same incense that the church uses in our rituals. Of course, I would burn that and I would leave that for a while. I'd probably have the rosary playing in the background on a, a tape, and I would just let that sit. A lot of times we would just go outside and hang out and let the incense filter through the house. And then I'd come in and I would get my relic of the true cross and I would start the Pope Leo 13th prayer. We have a modified version of that prayer.

[Phil]

And then.

[Ralph Sarchie]

And I would pray that. What I normally do is I would have investigators on every floor if it's a multi, you know, floor dwelling. And I'd have one team praying the exorcism prayers on the second floor, another one in the attic, one in the basement. If I had enough people, you know, and have it simultaneously. But if I was the only one doing the ritual, I would start in the location that I would feel was opposite the portal and drive everything towards that. Sometimes I feel the portal is in the basement and go the other way. Yeah. And I'd start in the attic and go down.

[Phil]

Now, in doing local exorcisms on a home, does anything happen during the exorcism, like in the way that a woman, in this specific case, this woman was growling, she was writhing. Does the house do anything strange? Does anything happen in the home that is bizarre or unusual?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah, sometimes I'll get something knocked around an object. Sometimes I'll hear a noise, a bang. It's all minor. It's all low level stuff. You got to understand something. A house, an infestation, of a house is like Universal Studios compared to a solemn exorcism. It's like an amusement park ride.

[Phil]

I see.

[Ralph Sarchie]

They're totally different. That's why laymen are not supposed to do solemn exorcisms.

[Phil]

I see. But a local exorcism is. Would you say the demons are less powerful?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, it's different. I wouldn't say they're less powerful. It's just different. You know, you're dealing with them on a different level. You know, we're dealing with a house, when you really look at it.

[Phil]

Right.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Compared to a human being.

[Phil]

I see. So in this case, no human actually got possessed. It was just the home?

[Ralph Sarchie]

It was just the home.

[Phil]

I see.

[Ralph Sarchie]

There were no possessions in any of these cases.

[Phil]

Now, in your book, you detail a case where a woman was interfacing with a ghost that she would see. This is in the first chapter. The woman that she would see in the mirror. I believe her name was Virginia. Can you explain that case specifically? And I think it's important to go through that to kind of illustrate, I guess, how things can seem benign or perhaps almost charming in a way, and then lead to more, I guess, evil behavior. So what was this case, and how did this possession go from something almost Hollywood esque into something more. More evil?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, it's. It's. It's the typical con man, con game. You know how we spoke before about how some psychopaths can appear very charming? You know, it's, it's. It's the game. It's how they. It's how they operate. Demonic have the same type of thing. They have an M.O. they operate in a certain manner. I'm a big fan of the FBI's profiling, you know, criminal profiling. I found it fascinating and, you know, I was able to apply it to the demonic. They have a nature. So you have a nature of some demonic. They did what I consider the brutes. They're attacking in an animalistic way. There's no conversation. It's all violence. It's, you know, it seems meaningless, actually. You know, then you have the intellect or the intellectuals. Like the way Father Martin it's designated exisms. The intellectual exorcism versus the dirty. You can bet that you're dealing with the, you know, the beast in the dirty ones, and you're dealing more with the intellectuals when you're having a conversation.

[Phil]

I see.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Which makes the battle more a battle of wills. It's not a physical battle, just like the battle between St. Michael the Archangel and the good angels against Lucifer. And the rebellious angels was not a physical battle. It was a battle of wills. They're not physical beings. How can you have a physical battle if they're not physical? So you apply that same, you know, that same theory to the exorcism is a battle of wills.

[Phil]

So this specific case with this Virginia ghost that you assumed this was a.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Con man, the next one will be the con man. That's how they operate. They operate on the con. And that's exactly what we were dealing with here.

[Phil]

So take us through the whole story. What does this woman start seeing?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, I mean, it's incredible. This woman, she goes and she lays down. She wasn't feeling well. She lays down and sees an apparition from the waist up, which is the first tip off for me, you know, and starts to converse with it. And the rest of the family thinks that she's a loose cracking. She's talking to somebody that's not there. She calls her husband into the house and into the bedroom, and she's like, don't you see her? And he's like, I don't see anybody. And he's an Italian guy, you know, he's like, what you could imagine. What are you, Stunard? So it just progressed to physical, you know, the physical aspect of the, the, the objects moving around the house to the physical assaults of their. Their own daughter.

[Phil]

And, and what is this, what is this being saying to the woman? What are they talking about?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, she's communicating with it, which is the first thing you're not supposed to do is communicate with it. You know what happens when you communicate? Right. We discussed that with in the Garden of Eden.

[Phil]

Right.

[Ralph Sarchie]

What did Eve do? She communicated with the spirit. Well, she communicated with it. That's the first mistake. And it's. It spins a tail. It's taking elements of her life and spinning this tail to gain the empathy that it needs to ingratiate itself with her in the ultimate goal of possessing her. Possessing this lady.

[Phil]

So the woman's seeing what she thinks is a ghost, and the ghost is telling her, oh, I died here and I need help from my parents, and is looking for some type of vindication in her death or something to that effect.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah, she's claiming she was a bride and she was murdered, and her fiance was found guilty of the crime wrongfully, and he was in prison. And, you know, it was a whole. A whole story that was built around this to draw this woman and this family in, because that's exactly what it did. It got everybody but the husband involved. He Was the only one that it could see. Because, you know, it was sort of strange because the. There was extended family living in this house at this time. And the family upstairs got involved in it also. That's where I believe this whole thing originated from, was from upstairs. Because of what I experienced in that house, in that apartment upstairs.

[Phil]

And what did you experience? You go over there, you hear this story, this woman's conversing with this ghost. And then what happens in your experience?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, I had gone upstairs because I normally walk around the houses when I'm involved in investigating cases. And it was an empty apartment. The people had moved out. And as soon as I walked in, the doorknob started to rattle. I can hear it. I can hear the doorknob. And there's nobody in this apartment. So I looked around. There was one room that was painted all black. This guy was practicing saintness. From what I found out later on. When I asked the family about them, about the people that lived upstairs, they told me that he was a little strange. So we realized that it might have been the draw because we had another. Another possible explanation. One of the young kids played with a ouija board at a party. So it created a little argument between the sisters. You can't blame her because she was being physically assaulted the way she was. Possible incubus attack and all of this very, very nasty stuff. You know, it was one of the most extreme cases of. Of oppression that I've investigated was that case. You know, with the amount of physical assault that she went through, that was. That was a very bad one.

[Phil]

And this would happen in the night. She would wake up to happen all.

[Ralph Sarchie]

All even in daytime.

[Phil]

Really?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah. It starts out usually at night, and then it's. Once it hits the oppression stage, it's happening during the day, in broad daylight, you know, outside the house.

[Mark]

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[Phil]

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[Mark]

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[Phil]

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[Phil]

Okay?

[Mark]

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[Phil]

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[Mark]

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[Phil]

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[Mark]

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[Phil]

Is a paid advertisement.

[Mark]

I think I have to say that. Anyway, let's get back to the show.

[Ralph Sarchie]

There was a case that the Warrens worked on. It was a. It was a demonic oppression case. And guy went out, tried to start his car, wouldn't start. So they had the car towed to the garage. And the mechanic called him and said, are you pulling some kind of joke on me? Because all of the. All of the internal parts to your engine have been disconnected.

[Phil]

Hmm.

[Ralph Sarchie]

So he had to take the whole engine apart to find out what the hell was wrong with it. And he wound up finding that the parts inside the engine were disconnected, deeply.

[Phil]

Embedded in the engine.

[Ralph Sarchie]

What's that?

[Phil]

Deeply embedded inside the engine? Some junkie didn't come and disconnect it?

[Ralph Sarchie]

No.

[Phil]

Hmm.

[Ralph Sarchie]

He said, are you pulling a joke on me?

[Phil]

Because it was obviously removed.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Parts inside the car, the engine, are no longer connected. And it wasn't where they're supposed to be connected.

[Phil]

It wasn't chewed through by a rat or a squirrel or something like this? No, it was just disconnected by hand.

[Ralph Sarchie]

You know those pistons that go up and down? They were all disconnected. No rodent was gonna do that.

[Phil]

Right. Strange. And with this Virginia case, the woman is seeing the ghost, and it ultimately invites the ghost to, I guess, into her in some capacity.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, yeah, through communication. It was entering her without permission. It's called transient possession. And she fought against that. She would tell it, don't enter me. You could talk to me. I could relay the message. But it was trying to get in. It was trying to get that permission. So it was entering. She was pushing it out. And eventually it would have taken her over if we didn't intervene.

[Phil]

And what ended up happening in this case? What was the intervention like?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, we had gone over to that case at the request of one of the exists that we knew. I didn't work with him. He was Dios. He was a diocesan exorcist. They were rare. But we went over and. At his request, and we were not prepared to do anything for the family, Just an interview. She came out of possession while we were there, so we. We helped her out. We didn't quite do what was considered an exorcism, but we were able to free her from the grasp of this thing with the relics. We had relics of the true cross, both Joe and I, so we utilized them for that very powerful relic. We were able to help her out there.

[Phil]

Now when you say she came under possession, what did that look like? You guys were all just sitting and talking?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah. No, we were downstairs in the basement and we. We were downstairs, we were praying and. Because I had a problem earlier in that basement, and one of the. I think it was a son in law came down and said, she's. She's having a problem. So we went upstairs and she was stiff. You know, she was stiff and she was. She was stammering, you know, like stuttering. And she was trying to tell us to go. And I just put my relic right on the top of her head. And Joe put the relic on her breastplate. We commanded it in the name of Jesus to leave. And eventually she came around and she was okay. She didn't remember what happened, but she was all right. And we continued, and then we left. And the priest never went. He never went. We were so angry with him, you know, so we went back. I took my whole team there this next time, and we were able to. To cast it out, and it stayed out. This time we did it right, you know, And I never heard from them again.

[Phil]

Hmm. And so this woman, just by interfacing with this ghost that she thought she was helping or that she wanted to be charitable to, then was able to take control.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah, but you see, the thing is that it wanted to possess her, but it assaulted the hell out of her daughter. So people would say, oh, it wants the daughter. No, it wants the mother.

[Phil]

And that's the weak point.

[Ralph Sarchie]

That's how it broke down. That's how it broke down. The mother's will is to assault the daughter. What's the best way to get at a parent? There's no. There's no better way to get even with a parent than to do something to their child. It might get you killed, but that's the best way to get at somebody is through their kids.

[Phil]

Hmm. So what are some other ways that a Home can get some type of demonic being, obviously crimes or murders or seances or things like that. What are other examples?

[Ralph Sarchie]

No, you pretty much covered them.

[Phil]

All the evil acts.

[Ralph Sarchie]

There needs to be a draw. There needs to be an invitation. It could be the land. Something could have been done on the land, you know, and it opened a portal. And then here we come along and we build, you know, all of these nice houses and people move in and now crap's happening. You know, like the movie the Poltergeist.

[Phil]

Sure.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Do you know where the real case to the Poltergeist is? It's in New York. It's in Seaford, New York.

[Phil]

Oh, wow. I didn't know.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Just a few short miles away from the Amityville house. A lot of bad stuff going on over in that area.

[Phil]

Yeah. And what do you think it is? Is it related to the land?

[Ralph Sarchie]

A lot of Satanism.

[Phil]

The practice of Satanism on the land?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah, Puritans.

[Phil]

Oh, really?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Oh, interesting. So the Puritans were practicing Satan, I.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Believe they were playing with a lot of stuff, the Puritans.

[Phil]

And is that connected, like.

[Ralph Sarchie]

And you also had a lot of Indian. Large Indian population in that area. Conjuring Massapequa Indians, the Amityville Indians. You know, where the Amityville houses, there's all, you know, theory that that house in Amityville was built on a. Now, Indians, they didn't bury their dead, they burned them. But they. They would take their criminally insane and they would chain them the trees and they would let them starve to death. And they would usually do this in the place where they burnt those bodies. So we're thinking that the Amityville house was. Was built over an Indian ritual site. That's one of the theories. There's a lot of. A lot of theories about the Amityville house.

[Phil]

And in these movies, typically, it's obviously dramatized, right, Like Poltergeist and Amityville, the Exorcist, things like that. And one of the things they always like to show is these supernatural events that are beyond comprehension. A person climbing walls or, you know, their head spinning, things like that. You had mentioned before, have you ever seen versions of that, like someone, you know, climbing something or defying gravity in some way? It's more subtle than that.

[Ralph Sarchie]

No, I never seen. Never witnessed it. No.

[Phil]

Is there other examples of that that you find not people.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Objects, but not. Not people.

[Phil]

And are there. Are there examples that are credible within demonic literature of people doing that, climbing walls?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah, there's. I mean, is a re you know, you heard this guy, Zach Baggins, right? Well, he's the ghost adventure guy. He bought a house. I don't know where it was. Chicago, Minnesota. I don't know where it is. It's called the demon house. To make a long story short, it was a young boy. I believe they brought him to the hospital and he crawled up the wall in front of cops and doctors. So, yeah, it happens. And this is recent. We're not talking about something that happened back in the 18th century. This is a recent 21st century case. He was exercised. It was unfortunate for the. In the hospitals, there's usually a priest assigned to the hospital. Well, when this kid walked up the wall, they went and they called the priest and he happened to be the priest on duty, and he happened to be the priest that got the exorcist. The bid to do the exorcist. Exorcism. I marvel at that because, you know, the original exorcism case. Do you know the movie the Exorcist?

[Phil]

Sure.

[Ralph Sarchie]

The original case was a Father Bowden, a Jesuit was asked to evaluate this little boy. And what he came upon was that he was genuinely possessed. And when he told the bishop, the bishop said to him, okay, good. When do you start? And Father Bowen says, start what? He goes, the exorcism. You got it.

[Phil]

Oh, wow.

[Ralph Sarchie]

That was it, man. He just happened to be there. That's, you know, that, that's God's providence. But I, I marvel at that. It could have been anybody else, but he drew it and he got it and now he has to deal with it. And that's, that's just incredible to me.

[Phil]

So now the kid going up the wall in the, in the hospital, the doctors, non religious, potentially saw this happen.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yes.

[Phil]

And they, they documented and reported this to, to police and to law enforcement. Husband. And so that's on the record from these doctors that maybe have no spiritual basis that saw this thing. Interesting. Do you know if anything came with those doctors, if it changed their perspective? I mean, certainly seeing something like that might, might invoke some type of religiosity.

[Ralph Sarchie]

You know, they're really reluctant to announce it. A miracle. They really are. They don't, you know, they don't like doing it. Some of them have, you know, they, they recognize it. They have a religious, you know, vein to them. So they'll say it's got to be a miracle. It can't be anything else.

[Phil]

I see.

[Ralph Sarchie]

You know, and I've witnessed a few.

[Phil]

Witnessed a few what?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Miracles. I'm not going to go into it. But, you know, I had a pretty strange coincidence or happening in August. I had a heart attack. I went to the hospital. They put me in a hospital. I had to get a heart catheterization. But the doctor was backed up, and I had to wait in that hospital for a few days. So I'm laying in this hospital bed, and doctor walks in. He had some kind of a European accent. I don't know if he was Polish or if he was Russian. He walks in, and I notice he has a miraculous medal around his neck, but it's on the outside of his shirt. Nobody wears a miraculous medal on the outside of his shirt. So I said, hey, doc, the miraculous medal. He says, I see you got your scapula. I had my scapula, you know. He says to me, no blockage, no stent. You'll be fine. And he walked out. So I'm laying there and I'm like, yeah, well, how the hell does he know that? He didn't even touch me. How does he know? You know, I'm getting nervous. They're going to put a camera in my heart. I'm not happy about this, you know, And I don't like doctors anyway, some laying there. He comes in the next day, a Sunday, the day before the procedure, he looks and he goes, no blockage, no stent, you're fine. And he walks out. And, you know, I'm just, well, no blockage, no stent. And I'm still here. So you know how he knew that? What doctor does that? He diagnosed me. He gave me a clean bill of health without even looking at me. Strange, I don't know of many doctors that are going to do that.

[Phil]

No, I've never heard of that. That's interesting.

[Ralph Sarchie]

You know, so these things, they happen.

[Phil]

Yeah. Now, in regards to demonology, I've heard that knowing and invoking the name of a specific demon can be helpful for casting it out. Is this the case? Have you worked on cases where you had to learn the name of the demon?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, we don't invoke it. That's, number one, the reason why we want to know the name of the demon. Well, there's two reasons. One is because usually the name reveals the nature. Once we know the nature, we might have a piece to the puzzle that we need to casting it out. And number two is it answers to that name. So now we're not exercising every demon ever created. We're exercising you. You know what I mean? You. Now you answer to this. That's. That's why they don't like giving their names.

[Phil]

And how do you learn the name of a demon?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, they give it to us and.

[Phil]

You have to coax it, beat it out of them. Oh, really? Interesting.

[Ralph Sarchie]

They don't give it up easy.

[Phil]

And have you heard names you've never heard before? And then you research it and there's no.

[Ralph Sarchie]

I don't do that. I am not interested in the names of demons. I don't want to hear them. Don't give me their name. I get people that tell me, oh, I know the demon's name. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it. I'm not casting it out. When I'm going to cast it out, then I'm going to ask you what its name is. But before then, if I'm sitting here in this chair, I don't want to know its name.

[Phil]

And what is the concern from knowing the name?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, I don't want to draw it to me.

[Phil]

Right.

[Ralph Sarchie]

You know, there's no need for it. What's the benefit?

[Phil]

Right.

[Ralph Sarchie]

You know what I mean?

[Phil]

It just potentially opens you up. There's a risk.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah. It just gives it the ability to look at me now and want to mess with me. And I really don't want it to mess with me now.

[Phil]

Kids oftentimes are dumb as. As I know very personally, a lot.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Of adults that have done too, so.

[Phil]

Yeah, but kids typically, you know, will do sort of things kind of as like a joke or maybe as like a party prank with each other that seem like they're tangentially related to the demonic. Right. Like, you know, kids will use a Ouija board which is explicitly demonic, or maybe they'll go in the mirror and they'll say Bloody Mary three times. Things like this that seem kind of innocuous to the average person, maybe a non religious person. Do you think that there is. That these behaviors are dangerous?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, it's more the intention behind it than anything else is what is your intention? You just goofing off. That doesn't mean anything. There's no intention. If you put intent behind it, then there could be a problem.

[Phil]

I see. So you'd have to use a Ouija board and specifically try to invoke something or conjure something, or if you're doing some type of ritual, you'd have to specifically be trying to have some intention.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, you have an intention. Sure.

[Phil]

I see.

[Ralph Sarchie]

When I pray the rosary, I have an intention. When I pray the rosary, I just don't pray it just to pray it. There's a reason why I'm praying it and there's a means to an end and I'm using the life of Jesus and the Blessed Mother as a means to that end.

[Phil]

I see.

[Ralph Sarchie]

So there needs to be an intention.

[Phil]

Now you had mentioned Native Americans and some of their traditions, and we'd spoke a little bit before that. Different cultures virtually across the world that have any religious tradition typically have some type of bad spirit. They have some type of evil spirit. In Islam it's known as a jinn. In Santeria and voodoo, they'll have their own specific negative spirits. You had mentioned that sometimes these spirits behave differently. Could you elaborate on the different types of spirits as they occur in different cultures? Which spirits are the most volatile and how they manifest depending on the culture that you're interfacing with?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, that's just it. They're going to manifest within the culture. It has to be understood what's going on. And you know, that was something that Ed Warren had brought out years ago and it's something that I remembered is that the demonic will attack according to the culture. Like, you know, we were, when he was speaking about the Enfield demon, the Enfield England, the voices, they, when the voices were recorded, this disembodied voices, they were accorded in cockney. In English, Cockney. It was accord. You know, they didn't have a different way of speaking. They spoke according to the culture that they were operating within. You know, in Africa, they're going to operate in a different way. So, you know, it's, it's, it, it's the same exact thing that the way we as human beings say you're in the CIA, right? And you're going to go over to a country and you're going to do some nasty things to some people. You're going to go and you're going to mix with their culture. You're going to attack them according to their culture. Because if you don't, you're going to draw attention to yourself. They're going to see you, you're going to get spotted. You know, like if ISIS comes and gets a safe house on this block, well, we're pretty much going to know they're there, you know, because they're not within the culture of this neighborhood. Now, I'm not saying that an Arabic family can move in and they could be very nice people and they can assimilate and that'll be great, that's fine. But what I'm talking about is ISIS is going to operate on a different level. I see on another level. And you're going to recognize it.

[Phil]

I see. But you were mentioning that, you know, Santeria and voodoo, those demonic forces, or perhaps more violent.

[Ralph Sarchie]

I don't like dealing with them.

[Phil]

Have you just. You've had experience with, you know, Caribbean, Caribbean demons?

[Ralph Sarchie]

They don't go easy.

[Phil]

Could you take us through some of those cases? How did this come up on your radar and what did you do, all the details of how it unfolded?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, it. Basically, it was the people that was surrounding this one particular person.

[Phil]

And where was this? This is in New York.

[Ralph Sarchie]

I believe it was New Jersey. I believe it was Jersey. And this person married into a family that didn't like her. The husband's mother, her mother in law didn't like her. And they owned a business that employed a lot of Haitian people, Jamaican people. And we believe that the mother in law employed one of these people to put a curse on this woman because we had never been able to help her.

[Phil]

Oh, really?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Not only numerous exorcisms for her, but numerous exorcists. And it seemed that a lot of them, a lot of the exes, when they got involved with her, wound up, you know, some bad things would befall them. One went missing. He disappeared off the face of the earth. So, you know, this. There seemed to have been some type of pattern with this. This person that any. Any exorcist that got involved with her usually got hurt. But Bishop McKenna did pretty well. You know, Bishop McKenna was different.

[Phil]

And what were some of her symptoms? What was going on with her that would indicate she was possessed?

[Ralph Sarchie]

She would complain about. She would feel that something. The only thing that she can describe it as is a scorpion that would have many tentacles sticking into her body. This is what she would envision when she would come under possession. She would visualize this demon would completely envelop her body, envelope her body, and the, you know, the aversion to holy objects. But this particular person was able to receive the Holy Communion. She was able to receive the Holy Eucharist. We believe that her demon was more of a devil than a demon. It was a high level, and it was very, very nasty. And we could not help this lady.

[Phil]

Wow. And was she again, violent or was she.

[Ralph Sarchie]

It wasn't so much as violent as her behavior was sinful.

[Phil]

She was acting in a sinful way. And can you elaborate on what she was doing? Okay. But she was behaving in a way that indicated to the exorcism people around.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Her she would live in a mortal state of sin.

[Phil]

I see. I see. And do you know what happened to her? Was Bishop McKenna was able to.

[Ralph Sarchie]

No.

[Phil]

Wow. And is there something as far as what the curses are doing within the specific culture? Is there a sacrifice? Is there some type of ritual that makes it more powerful?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Don't know.

[Phil]

Are you familiar with that in any other cases, some type of curse being done where someone does some type of sacrifice?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah. That woman that we spoke about earlier, that was the result of a curse.

[Phil]

Which one was this?

[Ralph Sarchie]

This is the woman. The 90 pound woman.

[Phil]

Right.

[Ralph Sarchie]

That was the result of a curse.

[Phil]

And is there a ritual that goes along with the curse? Are you familiar with what these curses are?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah, they usually have rituals. There's very few people that are on this earth that we call or consider natural witches witches. And those are people that have the ability to just align an intention with a demonic entity and it'll be carried out. But that's usually where you're dealing with people who are generational. Meaning the whole entire family are Satanist. The whole entire family is dedicated to Lucifer. The whole entire family is dedicated to the devil.

[Phil]

Oh, wow. And have you ever met any of these people? Have you interfaced with them?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah.

[Phil]

And can you explain what that experience was like?

[Ralph Sarchie]

One of them was a real good friend of mine.

[Phil]

Really?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah.

[Phil]

And how long did you know this person?

[Ralph Sarchie]

I knew him for a few years. We spoke about him earlier.

[Phil]

Really?

[Ralph Sarchie]

You and me.

[Phil]

Oh, wow.

[Ralph Sarchie]

He could read minds.

[Phil]

And was from a family of Satanists?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Wow. And was this person doing curses on people? Were they practicing Satanism in any. Any actual stuff?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, he didn't have to do that. He could just form an intention and the familiar in his family would carry out the act. But he became a religious.

[Phil]

Oh, really?

[Ralph Sarchie]

He became a brother. He left. He left his family and they've been hunting him ever since.

[Phil]

Oh, wow.

[Ralph Sarchie]

They've been trying to kill him for a long time.

[Phil]

Actively trying to kill him?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, yeah, you don't leave the family like that.

[Phil]

Wow. I mean, that's. And when you say carry out the act that he would set this intention, the family would carry out the act. What act is that?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Whatever act he needed done.

[Phil]

This would be sacrificing an animal or something?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, yeah, it would be a sacrifice that would go along. All ritual requires a sacrifice depending on what's at stake or, you know, the greater the, you know, the greater the stake, the greater the sacrifice, you know, the bigger the gift, the bigger the sacrifice, you know. And human sacrifice is not off the table. It's usually animal. They go after the Animals.

[Phil]

It'd be easier to do.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, yeah, it attracts less attention. You know, a missing kid might raise eyebrows, but these days, with the way kids go missing, do we really know where all of these kids are ending up?

[Phil]

Now, can satanic possession or demonic possession result in death outright? We've talked about a lot of stories where people are being attacked.

[Ralph Sarchie]

That would be the result. They'd want it. That would be the end result.

[Phil]

Have you dealt with a case that ended in those circumstances?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, I've had people die, yeah.

[Phil]

And how does that. How does that come to fruition? What are the steps to. To that? Could you take us through a specific case?

[Ralph Sarchie]

What do you mean? During an exorcism or perhaps afterwards? Oh, no, no, no. Nothing like that. Nothing is extreme. Broken ribs, you know, broken bones, injuries during exorcisms, they occur.

[Phil]

But when you said when you're violent, someone dies.

[Ralph Sarchie]

But I've never had anybody die. I've had, you know, people commit suicide. You know, we were working with them and just got too much for them and they did away with themselves. You know, stuff like that. But never during an exorcism. No, nothing is, you know, as dramatic as that.

[Phil]

But afterwards, there are.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Oh, yeah, years later than I did, people die.

[Phil]

Have they ever left, like, a note or some type of indication that they had killed themselves because of this possession?

[Ralph Sarchie]

No, not that I'm aware of, no.

[Phil]

Yeah, it's unfortunate. It's. I mean, the idea of a curse is very scary, that someone could just curse you. Is there any way to prevent someone from cursing you?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah. Pray the rosary.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Ralph Sarchie]

You know, have a relationship with God. Because not every spell or curse is going to work. It's impossible. God won't allow them all to work. And I dealt with a guy in a case years ago, and he claimed that he was doing spells for the mob. And I had asked him, I said, did they work? He said, not all of them. So I believe them.

[Phil]

Then did the mob know that he was doing spells?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah, they were going to him for that reason.

[Phil]

Oh, really?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah.

[Phil]

And the mob was looking to whack people.

[Ralph Sarchie]

They would use any means that they could use. And if they can find a way to whack somebody without having to actually go there and do it, you don't think they would do that? Holy cow. That would be the best. Hey, listen, I want Frankie gone.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Do a spell. Boom. Frankie's dead.

[Phil]

Wow.

[Ralph Sarchie]

That's it.

[Phil]

But do you think that was.

[Ralph Sarchie]

No cops, no DAs, no nothing? That would be the ultimate way.

[Phil]

Do you think that was common with the mob, or do you think this was a kind of a one off kind of?

[Ralph Sarchie]

I think a lot of the guys in the mob are afraid of this stuff and they try to stay away from it.

[Phil]

Right. They grew up Catholic, typically, most of.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Them all Catholic because of the times, you know. Right. I've heard stories of actual mob guys that were afraid to go into a house because there was something in their house. It was one of the, one of the guys that has the podcast, he said that this, this mob guy happened to kill his own father and he dropped him off at the house and the guy said, wait a minute. He went up, he opened the door and he called in and then waved and he went in and he was wondering what happened, what's the problem? He says, I don't go in the house unless there's somebody else in there. I won't stay in there alone. I always wanted to contact that guy and try to elaborate on that, to find out more about it, because this is a guy who killed his own father. He's afraid to go into a house because there's a ghost in it. I wanted to know more about that. These guys, they don't mess with that stuff. They're afraid of it.

[Phil]

So are ghosts always demonic?

[Ralph Sarchie]

No. No.

[Phil]

In what way could a ghost not be demonic?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Human spirits are not demonic.

[Phil]

So could there be ghosts that someone could see that are not necessarily evil?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah, any ghost that you see is not necessarily evil. They might be mean, but they're not evil. And even if they are, they can't affect the spirit world. Once they leave the physical world, they can't affect this world, the physical world.

[Phil]

But demons can.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Oh yeah. The demonic can definitely.

[Phil]

I see.

[Ralph Sarchie]

And there are three types of spirits. Human spirit, demonic spirits and elementals. The nature spirits.

[Phil]

And what is an elemental?

[Ralph Sarchie]

An elemental is a neutral spirit. It's neither good nor evil. It's an element of nature. It's an elemental. Anything that has a life has a soul. Even the plants, they have a vegetative soul. Animals have a sensitive soul. And us human beings have an intelligent soul. That's the breakdown according to the Catholic faith. And these elementals are usually utilized by Wiccan, by witches in witchcraft. And like I said, they're neither good nor evil. That's how they're utilized.

[Phil]

I see.

[Ralph Sarchie]

They don't speak, they chirp. Sometimes you'll hear them chirping, they'll make noises. A lot of noises that you might hear sometimes are attributed to elementals. They got nothing to do with human spirit or demonic spirit.

[Phil]

So can animals become possessed?

[Ralph Sarchie]

It's possible, but I've never heard of a case, and I don't see why that would be possible. The only time that I know of it in recorded history is the swine, when Jesus let Legion go into the swine. But what did the swine do immediately after that?

[Phil]

Cast it out.

[Ralph Sarchie]

They committed suicide. So even the pigs realized that what they had in them, they didn't want.

[Phil]

Interesting. Now, in Catholicism, in our faith, you know, items can be blessed. Is the inverse possible where items can be cursed?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yes. Calm, contact objects.

[Phil]

And have you dealt with this?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yes.

[Phil]

And can you give me an example of a case where you dealt with a cursed item?

[Ralph Sarchie]

I was, funny enough, Scott Derrickson was with me when I investigated this case and Paul Boardman, and they both wrote, deliver us from evil. And I had gone to this woman's house. There was a bishop that had sent me over there, and I believe this woman was suffering from mental illness, but that doesn't mean that she didn't have a problem. So I was trying to figure out if a problem was spiritual or for it was mental illness. And I was interviewing her, and I was sitting in a living room, and I noticed the bowl, a glass bowl with a metal top on it, and it had white powder in it. And I asked. I says, what's that powder? She says, oh, it's voodoo powder. I said, voodoo powder? Where'd you get it? She said, I got it from the Protestant minister down the street. So I got up. See that holy water bottle? I had that in my right hand. I put. Poured holy water into my left hand, right? Put the holy water on. I picked up the metal top, and I sprayed a stream of holy water into that powder. And I got a shock from the tip of my left hand that traveled right up to my elbow, and I dropped that metal thing, and I was like all. I was not in control of myself, and I. I backed up, actually, and I walked by Scott Derrickson, and Scott looked at me and said, ralph, you okay? And I didn't. He said, I don't remember this. He said, you just walked. You gave me a look like you wanted to kill me, he said, and walked right by me. And I. I don't remember any of that.

[Phil]

Hmm.

[Ralph Sarchie]

But that nailed me. Nailed me good.

[Phil]

So what is voodoo powder? What is this made of? What is it used for?

[Ralph Sarchie]

I don't know what that is, and I don't know what it was, but all I know is that it was electrically charged because it Went through my body. And I have a fear of electricity. When I was three years old, now, my mother swore that this is the reason why I was as nutty as I am. But I. I took two keys and I stuck them into an outlet. And I never forgot that. I remember the feeling. I could still feel it.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Ralph Sarchie]

And I fear electricity. And I got nailed by that. Whatever was in that bowl. And I yelled at that lady and packed up my stuff and I walked out.

[Phil]

Wow.

[Ralph Sarchie]

And the bishop was very upset with me, But I'm like, I'm not doing it. You deal with her. I'm not dealing with it. I got electrocuted. Not dealing with that crap.

[Phil]

Yeah. You need rubber boots or something.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, I was not expecting that.

[Phil]

Yeah. Now, what about, like, you see this in film, like a cursed doll or some type of artifact or a statue that's cursed.

[Ralph Sarchie]

You see, what's. What was the name of that movie? Annabelle.

[Phil]

Annabelle.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Right. There you go.

[Phil]

And have you. Have you heard of cases like this or worked on cases like this where, you know, someone purchased something or they were given a doll or some type of voodoo doll, that it was causing problems?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Not that I could. Not something that was, like, in your face like that. It's real difficult to decipher that. Like in the demon files. The mirror. The mirror was a contact object. I sort of knew that. I don't know how I knew that, but I knew. That's how it works. I don't have ability outside of cases. Sure, I don't have no psychic. I'm about as psychic as a rock. But when I'm investigating a case, I am more intuitive to my surroundings and in the directions that I need to travel. Not all the time. Sometimes I'm pulling my hair out, you know, I'm trying to figure out what. Where am I going with this? You know, why am I meeting brick walls here? Each case is different. And you can never, you know, assume it's going to be. It's going to be easy. Don't worry. No.

[Phil]

Was there any case specifically that made you just want to quit and just say, it's not worth dealing with this? Have you ever been attacked in some way by. By a demon?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, yeah. In the basement of that case that we spoke about with the woman who came under possession. I had gone downstairs after I had gone upstairs, and that door knob was rattling. And then it was rattling in the apartment I was in while we were doing interviews. It was in the corner. It was rattling, you know, down the hallway. I went down into the basement. And it was split into two portions. There was like French doors. And then in this area there was living space. There was a washing machine and storage in this space. And I went into that area when I first went down there. And I looked around. I checked everything. Ceilings, I lift ceiling. I look in. I look in everything. And I come out, I shut the doors and I went into the other side. And there was a mirror down there that I was interested in. So I took a couple of photographs of the mirror. And I just try to get my impressions. And I was leaving. And as I was walking out, something just gripped me right. Right in the spot that I was in. And I turned around, felt like something was behind me. And I was looking at those two double doors. And I couldn't move. I couldn't breathe. I was. You know, my heart was beaten. I felt like I had a wet rag over my face. And I could. I could not move. I was frozen. And I started to you picture a big silvery cross in my mind. That's how I was trained to picture this big silvery cross. And I reached into my back pocket, got that holy water bottle out and threw it at those doors. And I backed up those steps because a couple of minutes, a couple of hours earlier, I heard that there was a big ladder that was launched at somebody down in that basement. So I was very cognizant of what was going on. And I came up backwards. And later on, I told my partner, Joe, I said, hey, Joe, I had this problem down in the basement over there. And he said, here, look at this. He says, why did you go down there without me? He says, look at this note. And one of the lines was, harm will come to those below. Beware the night. So I was. I was laughing because the demon said, beware the night, named the book. You know, we couldn't come up with a title. We had something else. So I'm like, you're going to actually let this demon name my book? So we were laughing about it. But that was the thing Homer come to know below. Beware the night. Wow.

[Phil]

Wow. Now, you had said that obviously the book became adapted into the movie Deliver Us From Evil. And you were on set while they were filming the movie, and you had said that some things had happened on the set of this movie that were bizarre or strange. Can you elaborate?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Nobody came to me with that. I. I had heard that there was some things happening in Kaufman Studios, but this. There's always. There's always been things happening in Kaufman Studios. That's gotta. A reputation is being Haunted. So I discounted it. I was in a room. It was probably the first or second day that I was at the studio, and we weren't even ready for photography yet. It was all script. Script work. So I was in a room with Scott Derrickson, Edgar Ramirez, Eric Bana, and the speech coach. Her name was Nadia. And I was sitting at a desk and they were reading the script, and all of a sudden the window shade just came crashing off. It just came down. Boom. And everybody in that room looked over at me and I just sat there. Okay, what do you want me to do about it? The shade fell off the window. Continue. You know, so what was it the old shade that fell, or was it the demon that knocked it off? The. I don't know. Who cares?

[Phil]

It's a little unsettling.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah, but who cares?

[Phil]

I mean, I care. I would do.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah.

[Phil]

I mean, if something flew off this bookshelf, I'd probably be. I'd be a little unsettled.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, yeah, I guess. Yeah. You know, it would. I just. I don't.

[Phil]

It doesn't faze me.

[Ralph Sarchie]

I'm desensitized to it, you know, it's. It's. It's like seeing a dead body as a cop desensitized to seeing dead bodies.

[Phil]

The first time, it's a little. It's a little creepy. And then after a couple times, you. It's just business.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, yeah, you know. Yeah. The first time you're like, oh, man. What. You know, what am I getting myself into? You know, I got 20 years of this. But after a while, it. You really do become desensitized to it. It's. It's no longer an issue.

[Phil]

Yeah, you know, what's up, guys?

[Mark]

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[Phil]

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[Mark]

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[Phil]

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[Mark]

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[Phil]

Let's get back to the show. Okay, before we discuss aliens and hallucinogenic drugs, like I had said, I'm curious. There's a chapter in your book, the Werewolf, and it's not a chapter that I got into. So could you take us through the case that is. That is the werewolf?

[Ralph Sarchie]

All right, the werewolf case. That case had come directly into me. Actually. I got the call on that, and I got a call, my answering machine, and it was gobbled. And the only thing that I can understand was help me. I. It drove me nuts. I was trying so hard to try and get the number that the guy was giving me, but I heard a lot of background noise and just driving me insane. And then a couple hours later, my partner Joe calls me Ralph. I just got a. I just got a phone call. We. We got a case. It's in Jersey. I think they were in Jersey. And he tried calling you from the. From the highway. He suffered. He came under attack while he was driving his car, and he felt. He felt like something was wrong, so he pulled over and he called my number. Now, the way he got my number was Ed and Lorraine Warren were on. I believe it was Sally Jesse Raphael talking about a man named Bill Ramsey who was from England, and he was demonically possessed by a demonic spirit that had the characteristics of a werewolf. Right. He had an interesting case, just like this guy, Craig Morton. And he tried to call me, but he couldn't. He couldn't get the message out properly. And the background noise made it impossible. So she. The wife, was watching Sally Jesse Raphael, and she saw it. And they gave. At the end of the show, they gave my number and Joe's number, and she took the numbers down and gave the Numbers out to her husband. This is the name of the guy. So I guess he must have come under attack and then decided to call me. And we wound up setting up an interview. And he was tearing up. He was digging up the asphalt outside of his house with his hands. He was tearing at it. This is the way the man from England, Bill Ramsey, was digging up the tiles in his bathroom floor. He would feel an attack. Come on. He would lock himself in the bathroom so he didn't hurt anybody. And he would scratch at the floor, at the tiles and tear up the tiles. And that's what this guy was doing here in the United States. So, you know, I was familiar with it. I've heard it before. So we set up an exorcism with Bishop McKenna, and we had gone up there, and during the litany of the saints, like I said, that's how the bishop starts. During the litany of the saints, Greg started to react. We had him in a straitjacket, and he started reacting to the litany of the saints. And he actually was able to pull his arms almost out of the. The straight jacket. You know, it was looped around, but he was getting those arms free. And I. What I had was, you know, the, you know, the clotheslines, it's got the nylon around the vinyl, around the nylon. Well, that. That's the string. I replaced the. The cloth string with that nylon string because it was stronger, you know, and tied that up, and he started to pull that apart. So, you know, we jumped on him. There was about eight of us there, and he. He was growling, and he actually moved us all, the eight of us. He moved us all over to the side. He pushed back on the pew, and it pulled the pew out, the moorings out of the floor.

[Phil]

Wow.

[Ralph Sarchie]

So finally the bishop realized we were having a problem, and he turned around and he came with the holy water. And in his style, he told it to be quiet, stop with the gibberish, and listen to the prayers. Demon. That was Bishop McKenna. Stop with the gibberish, demon. And he went back to the prayers, and it was over just as quick as it started. So the bishop continued with the full. You know, with the full exorcism. And Greg just sat there crying and sweating, saying, it's over. It's gone, it's gone. He just kept saying, it's gone. And that was it. And I got a Christmas card from them the next. Next Christmas, and that was it.

[Phil]

Wow. And do you know how he got possessed by this demon?

[Ralph Sarchie]

I have no idea.

[Phil]

Wow.

[Ralph Sarchie]

And I have no idea.

[Phil]

And was there issues in his home?

[Ralph Sarchie]

I have no idea.

[Phil]

Strange. Now, if someone feels as though they have some type of issue like this, like this is manifesting within them or their house has some bizarre occurrences, what should they do? Contact the priest, just of a local parish.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Hopefully you have to priest over your house to bless the house. I mean, if you look at Bill Ramsey, I mean he got possessed, he claims, when he was a young kid and it stuck with him through his whole entire childhood. It was just dormant. And he described it as. He remembers the day he said he was out in his backyard. He said he felt a coldness deep in his soul like he never felt before. And he didn't understand it. That's what he described it. And then it took him over and he would lose consciousness. He would not remember what he did. And he was running around, what is it? South End on Sea England, terrorizing people, beating cops up, tossing six foot cops across the room.

[Phil]

Was he successfully exorcised?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Wow. Yeah, that's. I mean it's kind of scary that this could just happen and be dormant.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, he came from England to America and Bishop McKenna exercised them. I wasn't involved with Bishop McKenna at the time. I did meet Bill Ramsey later on, but I, I wasn't involved in any of his exorcisms.

[Phil]

Now, can non Catholics exercise effectively?

[Ralph Sarchie]

What do you mean?

[Phil]

Like other faith traditions, Protestants, other, other religious folks that are not Catholic?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, you know, the, the Protestants have deliverance ministers and I don't know if you know who M. Scott Peck is. Well, M. Scott Peck is a pretty prominent Protestant deliverance minister and psychiatrist. He wrote Children of the Lie, People of the Lie, People of the Lie. I was in his house with Bishop McKenna and Father Kumar Swami. You know, they were performing an exorcism on two of his congregation. I don't know of many Protestants that have been successful in exorcism. I believe they can be. I believe a layman could be successful in solemn exorcism. I just don't ascribe to doing it. But I believe that Father Martin, he adhered to the fact that there are some laymen that would be successful exercising people if they undertook the task.

[Phil]

And I guess you had mentioned that there's some prophylactic measures you could take to say, praying the rosary, going to confession regularly. You had mentioned the scapular and Phil had mentioned in the break that he wasn't sure what a scapular was. Could you just explain the difference between a scapular and a Blessed metal or miraculous metal, and how those could be used in a semen album.

[Ralph Sarchie]

It's just a different devotional, you know, like the miraculous medal. They're all accompanied with prayers. We just don't have the. It's not a talisman, you know, or an amulet. There's a devotion connected to it. They're accompanied with prayers. And, you know, it's just one of the many different ones you have. You have the rosary, you have the St. Michael chaplet, you know, which is another form of devotion for the St. Michael and the angels. And, you know, it's just one that you might feel drawn to. You know, there's many of them, right? That's. That's about it. It's. It's, you know, and there, there is a crucifix on it and a St. Benedict medal also, which is very powerful against the monarch.

[Phil]

Now, I had mentioned before we recorded, I had friends that have described alien abduction that they believe. One friend in particular, he described that his house had some bizarre events that happened when he was a child, that they moved into a home. And if I'm remembering correctly, this came from an episode I did with this guy named Jay King, really sweet guy. And in his home, he went downstairs and all the books that they were planning on putting on the bookshelf, they went downstairs and they were all laid on the floor in the basement. And they thought that was pretty strange. And then a couple nights later, he had woken up to seeing three beings that looked like kind of gray alien type beings that you might see in a movie. And they came close to him and touched him on the forehead. And then he doesn't really remember anything after that. He said that the beings moved in kind of like a strange fashion. They kind of almost looked like they were being puppeted, so to say, like a marionette, that they weren't walking like a normal human would walk. And he doesn't remember really anything else. He remembers vague memories of perhaps being abducted, being in some type of sterile room, and kind of a quintessential alien abduction story. And then was back in his bed. Woke up that morning and felt traumatized, felt scared, you know, hated the experience. And throughout his life continued to have more experiences like this, you know, waking up in the night and seeing these entities that would talk to him and things like that. And he became very involved in the UFO community. He said, this is aliens and I'm being contacted by extraterrestrials. What do you make of a story like this?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, I believe that aliens are A demonic deception. I don't believe that they are real in the sense that we believe them to be. I don't believe they're from another galaxy. I don't believe they've been created by God. I don't believe they've been created by something other than God. A lot of the UFO phenomena and, and listen, when. When I was younger, one of the things that I used to read. I started out in the UFO genre and then went over to the. The ghost stories. So it's something I failed to mention because it was such a short period in my life that I. The first attraction was to ufology. As a matter of fact, I know Bob Wirth. I knew Bob Worth. He was the president of MUFON out of Jersey. I met him. I met him a few years ago. Well, a few years. It was a long time ago. When I look at the UFO phenomena, it reminds me more of spirit energy than. Than a craft. But that's not to say that the demonic cannot manipulate a metal craft. What's to stop them from doing it? There isn't anything to create that confusion about aliens and demons. For what reason? I don't know. I really never gave it much thought. You know, what could be the reason why the demonic would want to be confused with an alien race? What benefit would it be to them? And if you go into Einstein's theory of relativity, just the idea of space travel is not feasible, not even for an alien race. 186,000 miles per hour. What. You know what craft does that?

[Phil]

Right. So you think it's a. It's a spiritual. It's a spiritual energy.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Everything is spiritual. Everything. The world around us is the distraction, and that's where the deception comes in.

[Phil]

I see. So if someone is having these types of apparitions, you know, where they're seeing. Type.

[Ralph Sarchie]

See a priest.

[Phil]

See a priest, yeah. There's another phenomenon known as CE5. This is basically, in a way, conjuring some type of alien interaction. And the way it would work is you would go with the CE5 is Close Encounters of the Fifth Kind is what it's called within the UFO community. And that people would gather in potentially large congregations and they would kind of do some type of practice to see some type of orb in the sky. And the people that I've spoken to, I've never done it, but the mass hypnosis, I don't know exactly what it is. It's an interesting thing because I've spoken to people many times that have talked about this phenomena and they Say I went out. I didn't believe in this whole thing. I only believe in the material. I don't believe in the supernatural. I don't believe in these metaphysical things. And I did this practice, and sure enough, I looked up and I see these orbs floating in the sky. And then they go away. And they're not planets. They're unlike planes that I've ever seen. And they say maybe it's aliens. Who knows what it is? So I'm curious hearing that. Do you consider that to be demonic as well?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, this is the first I'm hearing about it, yeah.

[Phil]

I'd be curious to know what you think.

[Ralph Sarchie]

I don't know anything about it, so I can't really comment on it. All I could say is that when you said that, the first thing that I thought about was the miracle of the sun. In 1917, Portugal, in Fatima, Portugal, where, you know, the devil will do anything in his power to confuse as many people as possible to keep them away from God. So that's the way I look at things, in those terms. Because like I said, everything around us is a distraction. You know, God is telling us, detach yourself from things of this. Of this world. You know, we're spiritual. We're missing so much more than just what we have around us because we've lost the ability.

[Phil]

How can you be sure? In. In our faith, we have these Marian apparitions. Right. You know, and I don't know if it exists. And I guess, you know, it's going to be more common amongst, you know, Catholic folks. This, you know, Mary appearing to the children.

[Ralph Sarchie]

I think George Washington might. Might disagree with you, but go ahead.

[Phil]

Wait, what do you mean?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, it's a well known fact that George Washington was visited by the Blessed Mother during the Revolutionary War.

[Phil]

I had never heard this.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, it's a well documented report.

[Phil]

Can you tell me I've never heard this before?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Oh, I believe it was written by a man named Sherman, not General Sherman, his private physician, I believe. And he wasn't feeling well that day, spent a lot of time praying that morning. And he gave his personal physician orders to not disturb him unless really necessary. And while he was in his tent, he looked up and there was a woman standing there. And he described her as one of the most beautiful women that he ever seen. That it struck him dumb that he couldn't even speak. That's how beautiful she was. And we believe it was the Blessed Mother. She showed him. She showed him. She showed him three. What was the word she used? There was A specific word she used, she showed him. She showed her three things, and one was the Revolutionary War. The other was the Civil War. And the third one was a world war that hasn't happened yet. And she showed him four countries that are going to be connected to that third war, that third world War. And she also told him that war is a chastisement sent to us from her son for being so sinful. That's how he punishes us as a nation, is through war. And the Civil War was a punishment for slavery. And the third war is going to be, I guess, the war that ushers in the Antichrist.

[Phil]

I've never heard this before.

[Ralph Sarchie]

That's what I'm assuming.

[Phil]

That's interesting. Now, how, as Catholics, can we be sure that Marian apparitions are different than a demonic apparition? Right? Like the Virgin Mother coming to Juan Diego in Mexico or to the children of Fatima.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, it's in the message. You know, that's why we are supposed to know scripture. We're supposed to know what the will of God is, so in case we are approached by some spirit and he gives us a message, we know it's. It aligns with God or if it's not from God. But there's another way, you know, we're told to test the spirit. St. Paul tells us to test the spirit. Any spirit that would ever manifest in front of me is going to have to prove itself to me. I'm going to ask it to say that Jesus Christ is king. The demonic will never do it. Say I love Jesus. The demonic will never say I love Jesus. They'll never say it. But a saint or an angel, they'll say it. They'll say they love Jesus. Praise be Lord Jesus Christ. You know, in fact, they'll probably greet you in that manner. Fear not. The Lord has sent me.

[Phil]

Interesting. Now, I have friends that have done hallucinogenic drugs, ayahuasca, peyote, things like this. And they've claimed to have experienced God, that they've gone in this hallucinogenic state and they have convened with some type of universal power. And they said it was beautiful and it was amazing and life changing. What do you make of hallucinogenic drug experiences like this? Are they potentially demonic? What would be your thought on that?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, you know, if you look at Felicity's Goodman, she's a social anthropologist. She studied these different cultures with their rask. She called it a rest, the religious altered state of consciousness where they'll take some type of substance and have a religious Experience with it. I believe there's some validity to it because of this K2 drug, this flocker drug. When these people take this drug, there seems to be some demonic connection. It seems to draw out the demonic through chemical.

[Phil]

Interesting.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Now it's in the Bible. Chemical pharmaca is in the Bible. We're very, very well aware of, you know, the. The. The herbs, the compounds that have a way of doing good, beneficial things and bad, negative things to the physical body. If the physical body and the spiritual are connected, of course, there could be some kind of a reaction to a drug in a spiritual sense. Yeah. You know, I see it with that flock of stuff.

[Phil]

Right.

[Ralph Sarchie]

You know, the way they behave, the voices that. The sounds that are coming out of them are very consistent with what we hear during exorcism.

[Phil]

Interesting. Is it possible it could be the. It could be positive that someone could take these drugs and potentially commune with the one true God?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, I don't see a reason why it's not needed. There's no middleman that you need to connect with God. Maybe a God with a little G. Yeah. Because he's not omnipotent, he's not almighty. So he might need that drug in order to make the connection, but our God does not.

[Phil]

So if these people are interfacing with something, you're skeptical that it would be the one true God. It might be some other type of spiritual force.

[Ralph Sarchie]

I couldn't answer. It could be God. It could be God. Why couldn't he? You know what's in the message, though, right? You know, what is he saying to you? I had people, they call me, they say, you know, God talks to me, and I'm like, yeah, what does he say? That I should come and talk to you. That's it? Yeah. Okay. I'm busy.

[Phil]

Hmm.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Father Martin told me a long time ago, anybody comes up to you and tells you they talk to God, take it with a large grain of salt. He just doesn't talk to people. The last. The last person that I know that he spoke to was Moses. You're going to tell me you're like Moses. You're Joe Blow from Brooklyn. God's talking to you. But the last one he spoke to was Moses. But here he is talking to Joe Blow from Brooklyn.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Ralph Sarchie]

And his message to you is to. Yeah, call that guy Ralph. That's it. Give me something. Yeah, give me the lotto numbers. I win the lotto. You're it. I'll talk to you all day long. Yeah. And twice on Sunday.

[Phil]

So you've Never had someone call you up that said, oh, I spoke to God and revealed something that you thought was. I see.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Give me something. You know, you got to give me something.

[Phil]

Yeah, I mean, this is. This has been fascinating. I. I feel like we've covered a lot of bases. I appreciate you telling your story. Is there anything else that you guys are curious about that. That we didn't touch on? By all means. This is now the time.

[Ralph Sarchie]

We didn't even scratch the surface.

[Phil]

Oh, really? What do you mean by that?

[Ralph Sarchie]

We could stay here for a couple of weeks and talk.

[Phil]

Is there any final case that we should discuss before we get out of here? Maybe I can go through the book and we can just do one more. Claudia. Is it true that Claudia. A widow living the sin of her lover, Claudia.

[Ralph Sarchie]

That sounds like the case with the women.

[Phil]

So can you tell me about the Claudia case?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, actually, that was a Warren case. I was. I was watching tv and I can't remember, was it sightings? I think it was sightings. And they profiled this case, and I recognized it immediately for being demonic. And actually, I called up Ed after the show was over, and I said, hey, I just saw a. I just saw a case on sightings about this family. And he said, ralph, I'm not soliciting cases. He said, we don't solicit cases. He said, I know sightings and they know me, and they'll get us together if God wants it. So I'm like, okay. He taught me that. It was a learning experience. I don't solicit cases now because of that. So it was about a month or two later, I'm on the phone and Ed goes, hey, Ralph, sightings just called. They want us to go to this place. And I'm like, yeah, that's the case I was telling you about. He says, all right, I want you to come. So I'm like, all right, I'll get the day off of work. So my partner, Joel couldn't get the day off of work. I got the day off and I had to drive out there. It was. It was a. It was a six hour ride, you know, and so I drove out there, raining, thunderstorm. And I'm like, why am I doing this? This is my day. I took a day off. I could be home right now, you know, so we get out there, I get out to that house and I meet the. You know, I meet the family. They all scared. They're all women. It was a house full of women. They're all scared. And, you know, a lot of times, Ed Warren would. When people claim that they would hear the house being struck, Ed would always tell them, demonstrate it. You know, I want to hear what it sounded like. So they would try to bang on something. And it's always the people in the other room that aren't in there. When they hear the bang, they jump because they're all, like, on edge. So, you know, these poor people, they're jumping all over the place. So it was a long interview. There was like eight people in that house. I was there for about 10 hours. It was a long, long time. And these poor kids were being, of course, physically assaulted and sexually assaulted. You know, it got to that point, they described it as this thing. It would originate in a basement. They knew when it was coming because they can hear it coming up the steps. There was a short set of steps and then the front door, and then another short set of steps coming up. And it was a pretty big house. And they said it sounded like it had cinder blocks on its feet as it was running up the steps. So can you imagine this? It's 3:00 in the morning, you're in bed, and all of a sudden you hear something running up from the stairs. And you don't know when it gets down to your door, what room it's going to go in and who it's going to attack. Because it could attack the mother in that bedroom, it could attack the twins in that bedroom, or could it attack the, you know, the daughter and her cousin in this bedroom. And they never knew where it was going to go and what it was going to do. And it terrorized them.

[Phil]

And what was the process of exercising that home? Same thing.

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, I was downstairs with Ed, and he goes, a kid, he called me, he said. He called me kid. He goes, hey, kid, go do an exorcism. So I'm like, all right. And I. First, he had me do religious provocation, which I hated doing. Hey, kid, do religious provocation. So I did it.

[Phil]

And what is this?

[Ralph Sarchie]

That's where you command the demon in the name of Jesus Christ to reveal itself. And I don't like doing it.

[Phil]

And why not?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Well, there's no timeframe in the spirit world, so there's nothing making it or stopping it from revealing itself three years down the road. And I had it happen. So, you know, I know, I know it's a reality, and that's why I didn't like doing it. But Ed was the boss, you know, it was his. His case. I did what he told me to do, and did it. So then he says, go upstairs and do the exorcism. And I went and I did the exorcism. And it wasn't until about a year later that I found out that it was successful. It was gone. I was happy to hear that. I felt bad for those women, you know.

[Phil]

And are you still doing this type of work today?

[Ralph Sarchie]

I'm more in a consulting role than anything else. I don't handle cases, you know, it doesn't mean that I won't. I will if I have to. You know, I don't want to do this work. I'm tired. But I'll do it, and I won't complain about it. I'll just do it. God will let me know if he wants me to continue in it. If not, he'll keep me doing what I'm doing. If not, he just drags me right back in. And I mean, he drags me. He just. Let's go.

[Phil]

When was the last time you got dragged in?

[Ralph Sarchie]

When Deliver Us From Evil came out in the movies. I knew what was going to happen and I didn't want it to happen, but it did, and that's it.

[Phil]

Has anything happened in this house specifically that you'd be willing to share?

[Ralph Sarchie]

Nothing really earth shattering. Every once in a while, little strange things happen, but nothing really that anybody would want to hear about. You want one more story?

[Phil]

I would love one more story.

[Ralph Sarchie]

I was living in Levittown. My mother lived downstairs. And eventually I moved into the apartment upstairs. And I had Barbara. Barbara was living. She came in. And I had my nieces and nephews living there, too. There was nine people living in this house. And one night I'm sitting in the living room and I'm watching the television. And I could see into her bedroom from the couch and into the other room. And she comes into the living room. She was backing up. And I looked at her and I'm like, what the hell are you doing? You know, when people walk backwards, I notice things like that. I'm like, what are you doing? She says, there's somebody in the dining room. So I get up and I'm on the second floor. There ain't nobody in the dining room. And I go in there and there was nobody in the dining room. But she described this. This person to me, and I'm like, all right, you know, okay. It's all right. Don't worry about it. It's. It's nothing. You know, sometimes women, you know, they are. No offense. So I go into the bathroom and I hear a No, a loud noise. And I hear a scream. So I. I'm like, what the hell? Now I go outside and she had these garden gnomes. Elementals, I call them. And I've been telling her for years, get them out of you. Get them out. I don't want them here. She says, I like them. They're my garden gnomes. I like them. Well, one fell over. All right. All by it's lonesome. And these were little heavy. These are little heavy guys. They didn't move around by themselves in the garbage. They went. Finally, I got my wish. So I. I am sitting on the couch, and she's in her room, and I'm watching tv, and all of a sudden, two sets of boots come flying out of the closet on the floor. You know, she screams again. I had a laugh. That's what. That was my reaction. I laughed the way she screamed. I just. I laughed. I got up, I picked up the boots, I put them in the closet. I said, when the doors are shut, the boots stay in the closet. And I went back into the living room. So now I'm starting this. Now I'm starting to get a little, you know, worried. This is the third incident now I had in a short, very short period of time. What the heck's going on here? You know? So I stopped. I thought about it, and then I realized what happened. This happened in the month of March. I filmed the demon files in the month of March, three years prior, when I was doing religious provocation. There's no time frame in the spirit world. They revealed themselves to me in those three incidents.

[Phil]

Did anything else happen in the home?

[Ralph Sarchie]

That was it. I got the holy water out. I throw the holy water around. That was it. Now, I didn't witness the first two inc. But I did see the boots with my own eyes. You know, two. Two pairs. They didn't just fall out, they came out, you know, they. They were launched out of that closet, you know, and these are heavy. These are heavy fry, you know, fry boots.

[Phil]

Absolutely.

[Ralph Sarchie]

You know, heavy. That they make those boots out of tire. You know, the tires.

[Phil]

Yeah, they're heavy.

[Ralph Sarchie]

They're heavy. And they hit that floor. Bada boom.

[Phil]

Very strange.

[Ralph Sarchie]

You know, you notice things like that.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Ralph Sarchie]

That's why you don't do religious provocation. It's nothing good comes from it.

[Phil]

Yeah, I agree. Well, Ralph, thank you so much. I appreciate it. People want to find you or support you. Is there any way they can do that? Buy your book. Anything else? That's all.

[Ralph Sarchie]

No, I'm on Facebook. That's it. I don't have websites or, you know, anything like that. You can still get the book on Amazon, wherever, wherever you buy books. And. And that's it. You can see the Demon Files on Prime and you can see Deliver Us From Evil on Prime or anywhere else.

[Phil]

Amazing. Well, thank you so much. Thank you to the Laser lion guys for making this possible. Thank you to my mom for connecting us. And above all, thank you, Ralph, for taking the time to do this.

[Ralph Sarchie]

It was my pleasure.

[Phil]

I really appreciate it.

[Ralph Sarchie]

My pleasure.

[Phil]

Absolutely. When I'm back, we'll do another one. Thank you so much.

[Mark]

If you've made it to the end of this episode, you are clearly someone who understands that beneath every historical event lies a deep truth waiting to be uncovered. You're the type of person who knows that real history is more fascinating than any fiction, and we deeply appreciate that about you. I'll be honest, that's exactly why I personally invite you to sign up for Today in History, our free newsletter that goes beyond the surface of historical events. We dive into the stories that textbooks never told you, the secrets that challenge the course of nations, and the forgotten tales that desert deserve to be remembered. Let's continue this journey of discovery together. Take the conversation from your headphones into your inbox. Sign up now through the QR code or link in the description Today in History. Because every day holds a secret waiting to be revealed. Thank you for being part of our historical journey. We'll see you next time.