Loading summary
Transcript219 lines
- [00:00]
A
What if the strangest conspiracy theory of the last century wasn't a conspiracy at all? Well, for decades, the CIA and the US Military quietly poured millions of dollars into secret programs designed to answer one unbelievable question. Can human beings spy on distant locations using only their mind? And I know it sounds crazy, but in this episode, former army veteran Sean Hazlett takes us deep into the world of classified psychic warfare programs connected to MK Ultra Stargate Operation Grill Flame, and Remote Viewing at large. We get into claims that intelligence agencies have actually used psychics to locate hostages, to map enemy facilities, to track down missing aircraft, and gather information that satellites couldn't find. Sean also explains how military personnel were allegedly recruited into these programs, why government agencies kept funding them year after year, and why some researchers believe that these capabilities never actually disappeared when the programs were supposedly shut down. Were these experiments and operations just crazy cold war fever dreams? Or did intelligence agencies discover something so disturbing that parts of it remain hidden to this very day? Well, if you are into CIA secrets, psychic spies, mind control research, remote viewing, and the classified history behind one of the most controversial programs that was ever revealed, well, this is the episode for you. So sit back, relax, and welcome to camp. Sean Hazlett. How are you?
- [01:40]
B
I'm doing great. How you doing?
- [01:41]
A
I'm doing excellent. I'm so excited to chat with you. Thank you so much for joining me in the tent.
- [01:44]
B
Yeah, I'm looking forward to this. This. This is an amazing setup you got here, man.
- [01:48]
A
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
- [01:49]
B
Oh, man, you got the. You got a Marian apparition. Absolutely.
- [01:52]
A
Our lady of Guadalupe appeared to the great Saint Juan Diego in central Mexico.
- [01:57]
B
Oh, boy. I'm going to sound kooky, but I just had a dream about a week ago, and in the dream, I'm walking across this field. I felt like Los Angeles or something like that. And this blue woman. I look up, this blue woman appears and has this Mesoamerican energy. Then I look down, and then she disappears. And I had this feeling of awe. Whatever. Again, it's just a dream. So go to ChatGPT. I'm like, you must be familiar with a lady with the Bledsoe stuff, right? So I'm like, are there any Marian apparitions? Which is kind of. The lady could be in that camp, right? I'm not saying it's the Virgin Mary, but I think they kind of fit that profile. And I look it up, and
- [02:48]
A
that's what you said.
- [02:48]
B
That's what was described, because it was also before that a Mesoamerican Aztec deity. I can't remember what her name was, but it was associated with the Blue Lady. Anyway, just a weird. This stuff happens all the time.
- [03:05]
A
Well, I want to talk a lot about synchronicities, things that have been coming up in your life and your experience with what I've heard people describe as high strangeness, perhaps, broadly speaking, the experiences with the supernatural and the esoteric. And you have many of them, which I'm very excited to jump into. And we got connected through our mutual friend Kurt Metzger. And I had asked Kurt specifically about remote viewing, and I was like, remote viewing is one of these things that. It's weird because there's genuine programs within the United States government that have funded millions of dollars into remote viewing. It seems like it's going on even until this very day as we're sitting here. And it also. It's been featured in television shows like Stranger Things, and it's been put into broad media. But it's one of these things that's still so difficult for me to wrap my head around how this is possible and why this is happening. I've heard stories of it being tested with children. I've heard all sorts of crazy stories. And I said, kurt, do you know anyone that could speak about this intelligently? And he said, I have great news for you. My friend Sean is not only brilliant, but he's also very much invested in this field. And I looked you up and immediately was so eager to chat with you because you have a very interesting resume and sort of backstory that leads you into this. And I think you are supremely qualified to talk about what is remote viewing, how it works, who's doing it, and ultimately why. Like, what is happening metaphysically that are allowing people to see things even when they're not there, thousands, potentially even millions of miles away, which are some of the crazier stories. And then taking me through some of the beats of these famous remote viewers and what they've actually been able to achieve. So starting from you and kind of how you get into this, what is your background? Background? Where'd you go to school? What did you study? And. Yeah, take us through that story, how you got to remote viewing.
- [04:52]
B
Okay, so I grew up in Wilmington, Delaware, about a mile from. You know, Kurt's always talking about Arden. I grew up about a mile away from that place or one or two miles away.
- [05:03]
A
And what is Arden?
- [05:05]
B
It's just like a Guild house that allegedly there's. And stuff related to, like, satanic ritual abuse and things like that. I'D never heard anything like that when I was a kid. But it's just odd that I grew up about, you know, one to two miles away from it. Anyway, grew up in Wilmington, Delaware. I went undergrad to Stanford. I majored in history and also got a degree in electrical engineering. One was. My parents were both teachers. My dad was like a high school math teacher. My mother was a grade school teacher. And I couldn't afford Stanford. There's. There's no way I got in. And my dad was kind pissed because he's just like, I, like, we're not going to be able to afford college for the other two kids. I'm like, look, I'll figure it out. So I got an ROTC scholarship, got a few other scholarships that basically made the tuition about $200 a year. And then we just. Parents had to cover room and board.
- [06:01]
A
Wow.
- [06:02]
B
So, you know, and I majored in electrical engineering so I could be employable and then history, just because it was fascinating to me. So went to Stanford, got the degree, then had to serve four years in the Army. It subsequently became five years, but that's. We'll get into that in a second. And I was assessed as what they call military intelligence officer. But they branch detailed me, which is just a fancy way of saying we don't need that many lieutenants in military intelligence. So we loaned them out to a combat arms unit, right? So I got armor, tanks, that sort of thing. And then four years later they send you back to the. What is it, I think Kurt calls it Fort Hoktua, but Fort Huachuca in Arizona, where typically you train to be a captain and all that good stuff. So I made a decision when I was 18 about whether or not I wanted to have a military career. And the way that I did it is I also had an appointment to the military academy. And I just decided that, you know, if I want to make this a career, I'll go there. But if I want to kind of just wait and see, see what it's like, and then decide. I went the ROTC route.
- [07:19]
A
Hey, real quick. Most people who watch this channel aren't subscribed. And when you subscribe, you help the channel grow and you stay in the loop with every new drop, religion, Camp, History Camp, and Camp Gagnon. Now let's get back to it.
- [07:30]
B
So anyway, did ROTC when I was in the Army, I was an armor officer. We were stationed at Fort Irwin, which is in the Mojave Desert. And we were the Red team. Call it. So before 9 11, I was an expert on Soviet armored doctrine and tactics. And we would have these massive war games using, think of it like a fancy form of laser tag. You had these Raytheon sensors or Raytheon sensors that you could reach out and touch somebody from several kilometers away. And then they would. Every vehicle would be instrumented. You have about 5,000 people on either side and you have these massive war games. And our role was just to beat the piss out of whoever we were fighting so that we could expose what their weaknesses and we could do everything the Soviets used to be able to do, use chemical weapons with CS gas and that sort of thing to make it seem real. And I just became an expert doing that. And it was a blast. At least the four hours when you're actually fighting the five, whatever, the hours before that and the hours after that sucked. But during that four or five hours, it was just absolute bliss because you're just, you're just spanking these guys left and right. And anyway, I enjoyed doing that. Then 9, 11 happened. So I was a lieutenant, I think, first lieutenant when that happened. And we had a guy, was a major, he actually went down to CENTCOM headquarters in I think it's Tampa Bay or Florida. And while he was there, he did a bunch of planning. Went to this school, the School of Advanced Military Studies, where they call it like Jedi something or other in the army, and where they planned all these operations. When he came back, he said that they had planned eight to 10 years of military operations in the Middle east that basically would reshape it. So it wasn't just Afghanistan, it wasn't just Iraq, it was Syria, it was Iran, it was all that stuff. And fortunately we didn't get that far into it and do it because it just obviously doesn't. Didn't make any sense. So after that, I got put on something called stop loss because I was a military intelligence officer on paper, but I had no training and intelligence at all, so I had to get a TSCI clearance, all that stuff. But as in any bureaucracy, they don't plan for these things. So when I said, well, how, you know, I was ready to go to the next course at Chuka, like, oh, well, there's a, a delay or a backlog for 18 months, right? I'm like, all right, well, I'm just going to sit here just. And just wait. So I got to see all the preparation before we invaded Iraq. And we knew, we knew in October of like at least October 2002 that we were going to go in because we were training for chemical weapons use in the carbolic gap. And we had built this massive trench complex and all that stuff to train people for it. So anyway, I get out of the army, I decide that I want to go to business school, But I also want to keep that national security expertise kind of current. So I went to the Kennedy School of Government to get a master in public policy. And then I also went to Harvard Business School. I didn't have any business experience or anything like that. After then I'll kind of fast forward, but after that I spent some time, was like an investment banker for a little bit. Lots of mental masturbation there, as you can, you can possibly imagine. And then I worked in various roles in corporate finance. So this has nothing to do with any of this stuff. But I was at Juul when it was like going crazy. And then I was also at Juul when it was the government started. Yeah, it was. You could write a book on it, But I can't, obviously. Signed a bunch of NDAs, but it was interesting. Anyway, I got into this topic. Well, one last thing. My thesis advisor when I was at the Kennedy School was Dr. Ash Carter, who subsequently became like eight years later became Obama's Secretary of Defense. My master's thesis was on plan B for Iran's nuclear program. So I wrote this thing in 2006. So anytime I had friends in government who would say, hey, do you got any good open source reports on this issue? And he said that from all different government agencies, every time one of the people that would send them something back would be my master's thesis.
- [12:02]
A
Wow.
- [12:04]
B
Which has been frustrating because I'm watching this shy as a show and it's
- [12:08]
A
just like, you saw this coming 20 years ago. Yeah.
- [12:13]
B
But things are, things are like radically different than they were. Like we had people in theater, drones. We were the ones with drones. Right. There's been a whole evolution technologically. Technologically, but also just application of these, like, new technologies that unfortunately with the Russia Ukraine war, they've been able to leverage and learn both sides on how to employ these things. And we're behind in terms of like, I would say that it's very similar to where the Germans were at the beginning of World War II. Right. Where the French, like Heinz Guderian was like the German theoretician who saw the battle of Cambrai when the British employed tanks and he came to the conclusion you got to use them in packs. Right. Like entire units, like tank divisions and things like that. Whereas the French would just put pepper tanks throughout their different, you know, infantry battalions. And he just, you know, it was obviously very effective for the Germans in World War II. We're. We're kind of at a similar point, right, where with drones, there's going to be, you know, these massing tactics and kind of using them en masse instead of just peppering them throughout different organizations. But then you, on top of that, you also have AI. Right, Right. And AI is gonna radically shift and it's gonna be a predator prey thing because that AI is gonna have to adapt to the other AI, and they're gonna adapt so quickly that we're not gonna be able to track it.
- [13:46]
A
Right.
- [13:46]
B
Same thing with cyber. Right. The same issues. Anyway, people are listening to this and
- [13:50]
A
they're like, how does a guy go from Stanford undergrad to military intelligence to then Kennedy School and then Harvard Business School and then get involved in remote viewing?
- [14:00]
B
Okay. So the next step, this whole evolution is I read this book called Psychic Warrior by David Morehouse. He's somebody you should absolutely talk to, by the way. He's far more knowledgeable in remote viewing. I think he's trained 20 plus thousand people on how to do it. So he has a book where he talks about how he got recruited into the program. So it started out he was Ranger regiment commander, which is very, very rare. Not like very few people get selected for that role. And he was in a training exercise in a valley. It's called like the Haunted Valley. Valley. Valley of the Jinn Batn El Gould in Jordan. Okay. And during this training exercise, a Jordanian soldier with a machine gun shot him in the head, either accidentally or accidentally on purpose, don't know. But obviously he's wearing his Kevlar, so it caused like a hematoma, but it didn't, you know, didn't kill him, but certain sure cell knocked him out.
- [15:04]
A
Right.
- [15:05]
B
And he said that when it happened to him, it was if he shifted a free, like a channel on a radio station, like somebody dialed it up somewhere else and he had like a incident or not incident, but an experience with another, either being his higher self. Something that just told him, look, you're on the wrong path. You're not supposed to be kind of in this kind of war thing. You're supposed to be doing something else. And he didn't want to tell anybody about it because he wouldn't be deployable and they would yank him out of the Ranger regiment. You got to be deployable at all times. Right. So he kind of kept it to himself until he had this new assignment. And like most army officers. He doesn't want to do the whole recruiting thing, Right. So he's trying to desperately find a way around that. And his next assignment is kind of an intelligence assignment, working with the dia. Now, I'm not sure when he went to the activity. Are you familiar with the intelligence. The isa. So it's sometimes called Royal Cape Task Force Orange. Right. It's like the intelligence side of Special Ops for the Army. Okay. Anyway, he did some assignments there, but he also did an assignment near dia. When he first went to dia, there was a psychologist that had to talk to him, right? And at the very end of every session, he would say, is there anything else you want to tell me? And it said. It just got to him because he felt like he's like, is it some polygraph and all that? So he said, fuck it. Like, can I curse?
- [16:50]
A
You're actually required to curse.
- [16:51]
B
Okay, all right, all right. Well, just be careful. Don't. You could take Sean out of the army, but you can't take the army out of Sean. So anyway, he tells this guy what happened, and the guy kind of looks at him and says, I might have something for you. He pulls out this folder and it says, grow flame on it. Okay? And he said, why don't you take a look at these? Just read through the entire folder and come back to me when you're done and we can talk. And what it was was the remote viewing production of a bunch of former remote viewers. Some of it was involved in mapping the. The embassy. The Iranian, or not the Iranian, but the US Embassy in Tehran during the hostage crisis. I think there was other stuff related to locating hostages in Lebanon when Hezbollah took us hostages in like, 82, 83, and a number of other things. And literally there were people mapping what the embassy was because apparently, for some reason or another, we didn't have maps back at the State Department for that particular embassy in Tehran. I mean, we had on site maps. We couldn't, you know, he couldn't really do anything for us if it were. It was taken. So that's how he kind of got started. And he kind of met with the team, and after that, that's kind of where he learned how to develop this capability. And then the capability. There's a little story behind that. I'll just stop. Breathe a little bit there.
- [18:33]
A
This is Operation Grill Flame is the thing that he looked into.
- [18:36]
B
So it went by various names, right? So it was at one point called Centerlane, at one point called Grill Flame. Another time it was called I'm Blanking. On one of the names. And then it finally ended up with what everybody else hears, which is Stargate. Stargate. Okay. But they're constantly changing names of these programs from time to time. But it was Project Growth Lane, Project
- [19:02]
A
Stargate, and they're all functionally the same thing.
- [19:04]
B
Yeah, yeah. Sun Streak was the other one.
- [19:07]
A
I see.
- [19:07]
B
Yeah. So there's like four names that I can remember that. That are related to this program.
- [19:11]
A
What's up, guys? We're going to take a break real quick because I want to tell you a little story. All right. I don't know if this is just what happens once you hit like your late 20s like I am, but I started noticing a bunch of little things that didn't seem connected, but they actually are. I would be tired and then somehow I'd be like awake all night. I'd have trouble falling asleep. I go to the gym and I don't recover like I did when I was 18. And it felt like I was doing everything right, but my body just wasn't responding the way that it did like five or 10 years ago. So I started looking into it and the one thing that kept on coming up is cortisol. It's your body's stress hormone. And between like doing shows and podcasts and trying to be a dad and being on screens and doom scrolling all day, my stress level was just elevated all the time. And that is what led me to Mars. Men. This is awesome. And if you listen right now, it's almost empty because I take it every single day. What I like is that it isn't just focused on one thing. It's made with natural ingredients that are designed to support healthy testosterone production while also helping your body manage cortisol levels. And it's made right here in the United States. Every batch is third party tested and there's no weird like stimulants or synthetic hormones or any of that stuff. Since I've been taking it, I've noticed steadier energy, better recovery after I work out and I just feel more like myself. I'm able to do way more. Plus, there's a 90 day money back guarantee and over 91% of users report higher energy levels. And great news for a limited time, the campers that listen to this program will get 50% off for life plus free shipping and 33 free gifts@ Mengotomars.com that is Mengotomars.com for 50% off and three free gifts. When you check out and after you pick up your Mars for Men, just tell Them that Mark and Christos from the campsite sent you. Now let's get back to the show. So now at this point, people are listening. They're like, hold on. The US Government and the military is using remote viewers to target locations and target enemies. And this seems like absurd, but there's a long history of this within US intelligence to use remote viewers. And we actually did an episode on Ingo Swann, one of the most notorious sort of disclosed CIA vermot viewers. Are you familiar with Ingo Swann's story? What can you tell us about Ingo Swan?
- [21:17]
B
Yeah, a little bit about Ingo Swan. So he was a natural born gifted psychic. He worked with the Stanford Research Institute to. Well, first of all, they tested his capabilities, right? So they would ask him to identify. They would go on these things, these outbound projects where they would just go to places in Palo Alto and then they would ask him to remote view what he was seeing. And they would do that over and over again. They would put them in a Faraday cage and they were able to prove that, yes, it still worked. If you're inside a Faraday cage.
- [21:48]
A
Faraday cage basically stops any type of electromagnetic frequency. If you put your phone into it, it's neutralized.
- [21:54]
B
Right? Which is to say that whatever this is, it likely operates at a non local level, like a quantum level, as opposed to electromagnetic. I mean, there's probably an electromagnetic component when the signal comes back into your body and your brain translates it and goes through that. But they ran a bunch of experiments where he basically demonstrated that, yes, this absolutely works. And there was something else that they had him view. I can't remember off the top of my head, but it kind of freaked them out. There was also another psychic. His name was Pat Price. Pat Price definitely freaked out the CIA because they asked him to remote view some cabin, some random cabin in West Virginia. But the way remote viewing works, is it if some, like if there's a lot of energy in a target, right? So for instance, if it's like very, very, very, very, very important that you keep it secret, that target generates a lot of energy, right? So it almost makes it shine like a beacon in that space. So as he's looking for this one target, his attention gets directed to this classified NSA site. And so he starts talking about that. He literally reads off folder names of projects like Project Cue Ball. And like, it was a bunch of billiards kind of related projects. So they take this stuff to the CIA and the CIA is like, this is like garbage. What is this and then they come to find out that, no, it's not garbage. There was an NSA facility that they didn't even know about. And they went and corroborated that, yes, these projects are real projects. So anyway, they got to that point where like, okay, this stuff is real. So then they wanted Ingo to come up with a way to train soldiers to do it. So he didn't really have a protocol. He didn't really kind of explain how he did it. So he had to develop a protocol that they could literally train anybody to do, but was repeatable. And you went through. And there's various stages depending on, like when Ingo trained somebody, he trained some people in some stages, others he chose not to. But generally, like, if you average it out, there's about six stages. There's more than that at the classified level. I don't know what they are. I just know from what Lymp Buchanan has said publicly. But the point is to just be able to train anybody, because this is a capability that anybody has. I know that from public filings they spent about 20 million from the early 70s until 1995 when it was shut down. And that was on the heels of when David Morehouse released his book Psychic Warrior. And that's a whole other story about how he was harassed. And it got pretty ugly for him.
- [24:47]
A
And for anyone that doesn't know at this point, I think most people have kind of picked up what we're talking about when we're saying remote viewing. But it is this act of a person that is. Is generally trained in this type of technology, so to speak, that is able to see an item or a target that is many miles away from them just by kind of closing their eyes and going into this semi meditative state. Is there any more that you could add into more or less what it is? If you were going to define it for someone that's never heard of it?
- [25:18]
B
Yeah, this is very specific. And this causes a lot of. There's a lot of information, and there's some people who are broader will kind of broaden the category. And there's other people who have very narrow definition. Like David Morehouse is a very narrow definition. And I won't do it justice. But basically that's not to say that psychic capability doesn't exist and that everybody else that's not doing remote viewing, it's all garbage. A lot of that stuff's legitimate too. So just think of it as there's a broad category called divination. Okay? And divination is being Able to detect things in space and time. Okay, so you might have the I Ching, which is a Chinese kind of method of doing that. You might have tarot, you might have, you know, you have astrology, things like that. Or you might just have naturally gifted psychics who can, you know, do what they do and predict certain things. Remote viewing is very specific, so it is a methodology where it tends to be single or double blind protocol. By single blind, the person receives nothing more than an eight character number. Okay. That corresponds to a target. Right. They not always, but most of the time you don't tell them you're looking for a person, you're looking for a thing. They don't even get that. And the reason you do that is you want to short circuit that. Imagine your imagination, right? You don't want to. If I tell you, and there's an example of this I talked about on Julian's show that was related to the Heaven's Gate kind of, or mass, whatever you want to call it, where someone was front loaded, right? Front loaded just means that they were given a sense of what their target was, which was the hell bop comment. And there was like a speck of something in the comment. So immediately, you know Courtney Brown, who was tasked to do it by Art Bell on coast to coast AM, immediately his brain starts coming up with like UFOs, motherships, all that stuff that can get you into a lot of trouble. Because if you trigger somebody like that, it's difficult to separate your imagination from what your subconscious is giving you for the target. Does that make sense? Which is why you have to have a single or double blind protocol. Now double blind is when the person who assigns you the target doesn't know what the target is either. Okay. And then what happens is usually let's take like a six stage process. There's a bunch of different protocols. There's crv, which is by some names coordinate remote viewing. Some call it why am I blanking? There's another. See, there's coordinate remote viewing. And I'll come up with it. Controlled remote viewing is the is is the other name. It's basically the same thing. But you get this number, you kind of relax, you try to get into an alpha wave brain state and you just start to open that aperture of sight, right? And you just is it man made? Is it land, Is it water, Is it a life form? And you just kind of come up with that and then it just progresses to the point where when you get widen that aperture of perception, then you're starting to draw Full scenes and describe smells. Sometimes if you send somebody to a target where there's like, let's say somebody sent you to Chernobyl, people, if they're not careful, will start to bilocate. Now, this is not like bilocation when you're talking about saints, where literally somebody's in two or Padre Pio, right? Where you're in two places at once. It's not that when you're talking about remote viewing, but it's. They start to exhibit physical characteristics or physical symptoms of if they were in that environment. So one of the things you have to be very careful is in the military, they generally. If you had, like. If you're a heat casualty, you have, like, heat stroke, or if you have. You had hypothermia or something like that, they record that because you're more susceptible if it happens again. So if somebody had a heat casualty sometime in the past and you send them to Chernobyl, they might actually experience some physical distress, right? And might have heat exhaustion or things like that, but you start to experience feeling of being there. So it's not just what you see, it's what you smell, it's what you hear, it's what you feel, right? And some people are what you taste. Some people are better at certain senses than others. And according to Limby Kennan, they actually identify where that. Where people tend to be good. They might be better at colors, they might be terrible at faces. So it's a skill that's acquired. And like anything else, it's something that most. If not. I don't. I don't want to say all people can do it, right? Because somebody who has, like, down syndrome, you probably not gonna be able to train them how to do it. And it's just like, like. But most people can play basketball, except maybe a paraplegic, you know, or might be able to shoot, right? So it's something that most people can do, but also, like a sport, you have to develop it. You can't just sit down. And I mean, some people might be more naturally talented than others, but for the most part, it's something that people have trained for years and years and years, and you're not always 100%, right? So in the intelligence community, we were talking, I think, offline about this is you don't want to rely on one collection method to bet the farm on something. I mean, that's basically what we did with the Iran war, right? We ignored 18 intelligence agencies and just kind of believed what Netanyahu was telling Trump and Now we are where we are. So you want to make sure that you triangulate the intelligence and again, the enemy, whoever you're dealing with, is going to feed you with a lot of BS too. Right? So I think again we were talking about In World War II, we had. Patton was in charge of this huge dummy battalion. They inflated a bunch of tanks and things like that, aimed them at Calais and Calais and then had all this false radio traffic. So, you know, Hitler thought.
- [32:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and
- [32:23]
B
availability, various 18 plus that the allies were coming to Calais and then we went to Normandy. So there's a lot of deception when it comes to signals traffic. So you have to be careful. You also have like Massent, you have like geospatial intelligence, all sorts of stuff. Human. Human. Right. Human intelligence, spies and all that good stuff. And you want to try to triangulate all that. Remote viewing was one of those tools in the toolkit that can do that. Now there are some times before it was fully developed in the late 70s and this is something you can look up, but President Carter openly admitted that we found a Tupolev bomber in Africa. There was a female remote viewer who just got a map and located it within a mile on the vast continent of Africa. And they went there and we recovered
- [33:13]
A
it and can you, can you Google that? Wow, that is a remarkable story. It's like basically they just said, hey, we like they gave coordinates or something.
- [33:24]
B
I think she just like pointed at a map. I don't know exactly how it was done, but yeah.
- [33:30]
A
So while serving as president. Scroll down. He publicly revealed that the CIA once used a psychic to successfully locate a downed government plane in Africa. So while survey's president, a small US aircraft disappeared over the jungle in Central Africa, then Zaire. Unable to locate the wreckage with spy satellites. Then CIA Director Stansfield Turner suggested contacting a woman in California who claimed to have supernatural abilities. According to Carter's account, the woman went into a trance, wrote down the specific latitude and longitude coordinates. U.S. intelligence refocused their satellite cameras to those exact coordinates and the wreckage was found covered by the jungle canopy. Wow, that is remarkable. And this Work aligned with the Stargate project, a Defense Intelligence Agency and CIA program from 72 to 95. Wow. Now, when people look at this, they might say, like, okay, $20 million over, you know, 20 years for the US government.
- [34:23]
B
It's a steal.
- [34:24]
A
That's not much. That's like a drop in the bucket. And I've heard people say this is a high impact, low cost technology that they could actually work on. Do you think that that is a fair way to assess remote viewing? Or do you think that it's even, you know, like, higher impact than people assume? I think people are like, oh, yeah, you're throwing the, throwing money at all this random stuff to see if anything comes back. And this was one of the things that they happen to throw money at. Or do you think that there's a, a technology here that's even more reliable than people might think?
- [34:54]
B
I think it's more reliable than people think. And I think again, this ended in 1995. If they still continued to iterate and innovate privately, I'm pretty sure it's a lot farther along. So, for instance, when they first started this, there was no defense against it. Right. But you talk to remote viewers today sometimes when they review Target. So Edward Reardon, who works at the Future of Forecasting Group, which is a group of remote viewers that are paid basically to remote viewer, they get targets and then are constantly putting out content. They actually, I think it's like Future Forecasting Group, where you can go, they have a YouTube channel where they just show it, they just put it out there and then you can assess whether or not it works. But he was doing one target and he kept like getting inundated with like this music. So he thinks, he believes that that's a technique that has been developed by someone to prevent you from just anybody from just viewing people in space and time. Right. So there are, I would guess, countermeasures that have been developed that are out there.
- [36:09]
A
With what confidence could you say that the government has continued a program like this even past 1995?
- [36:16]
B
99%.
- [36:18]
A
Really?
- [36:18]
B
Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you why I say that. So Dean Radin has publicly stated that it's gone, quote, unquote, quiet. And what it means when he says it goes quiet is it's not classified, but when it goes quiet, you can still do it, but you don't have to read people in on anything. So paradoxically, fewer people know about it. So it's very likely that at the very least they're hiring contractors, people and I would not be surprised if they were bringing in Lyn and stuff like that. He'll never talk about it. He'll never say anything. He's never said a word about it. But there are skilled remote viewers that you can still pay to find these things. And I honestly don't know if he's still doing it. But I would also imagine that there were other programs that were independent of the Army's program, because the only one they shut down was the Army's one. I mean, it was tied to CIA and dia, but it was still within the Fort Meade group. There was also a group in Army Special Forces that was designed not by Ingo Swann, but there was some cross fertilization, but by this guy Richard Ireland. Richard Ireland. And you can actually, if you look him up, too, because I want to make sure I get his name. But he was a gifted natural psychic. So Army Special Forces just pulled them in and say, how do you do what you do? You're really good at what you're doing. So they developed their own protocol that was similar to the kind of controlled remote viewing, but slightly different, which is now they call it the Hawaiian Remote Viewers Guild, kind of hrvg. Okay. Which is similar, but a little bit different. They have something called the blackboard, and you think about what you're viewing, and then you kind of just write it out.
- [38:14]
A
This guy here, Richard Ireland.
- [38:16]
B
Yep, that's him. Oh, wow.
- [38:19]
A
And can you scroll down, maybe just get, like, a bio on him, see if there's anything there? The flamboyant clairvoyant. Nice little name.
- [38:29]
B
It's the first time I heard of that.
- [38:30]
A
That's interesting. And so he was contracted.
- [38:35]
B
I think so. Yeah. They hired him to. Brought him into a room and tried to learn everything that they can.
- [38:40]
A
Wow.
- [38:41]
B
So his method is still taught by a guy named Glenn Wheaton today. He was also associated with that 1st Earth Battalion stuff. Familiar with that? With the minute stere goats or steric goats, that whole thing.
- [38:58]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [38:59]
B
So I think that was deliberately meant to be ridiculous so people would believe this stuff was not real. But he was the colonel. Like, the colonel that was in that movie was based on him. So I think his name was John Channon or something like that.
- [39:17]
A
Okay.
- [39:18]
B
Yeah. Or Jim Channon. Jim Channon, something like that. So all these people are tied together in various ways. There's also something called remote influencing, where you can influence people remotely. Like, I think Lim Buchanan did some project on Saddam Hussein. And there's anecdotal stories. I Think Jeffrey Mishlove may have put this out there? I think I asked Lyn, and Lyn said, well, that's what they reported they saw, right? But as he was remotely influencing Sane Hussein, his eyes turned from blue to brown. He said some woman walked in and, like, screamed or something.
- [39:58]
A
Wow.
- [39:59]
B
Again, this is. This is reported by Jeffrey Mishlove. And then Lynn didn't deny it. He's just like, yeah, some lady came in and said that.
- [40:09]
A
Hey, guys, we're gonna take a break really quick because I want to talk to you about gld. This is an awesome new company that we're working with that I am actually wearing right now. I actually got this crucifix right here. And honestly, even just getting it, you know, sometimes, like when you work with some companies, you're like, all right, I really hope the product is good. This one is. I. I wear it all the time. This is actually like the new crucifix. I lost my last one at a bathhouse. Literally, at a sauna. I lost my crucifix, which is maybe God's way of telling me something. But I got a new one from gld and I've been rocking it non stop. My wife likes it, and it's got, like, a nice weight to it. The details actually look better in person. The clasp is, like, super solid. It doesn't feel like something you bought, like, in Times Square from a random dude. It doesn't feel like something you order from, you know, some sketchy website on teemu. And they got everything. Chains, pendants, bracelets, watches. Whether you want something subtle or something that's like, yo, I just. I just signed a deal. You know what I mean? If you want, like, the record deal chain, they got that, too. Now, if I haven't convinced you yet, let me sweeten the deal a little bit. All right? For a limited time, the listeners of this program, Camp Gagnon, Religion Camp, History Camp, and the entire camp universe, you're getting a crazy deal. If you use the code Camp C A M P When you check out, you're going to get 40% off your entire order@gld.com. that's 40% off your whole order with the code camp at checkout at gld. And after you purchase, they're going to ask where you heard about gld. Tell them you heard about them from, you know, the good folks here at the campsite, Mark and Christo sent you. And whenever you do that, it really helps, you know, support the show. And thank you so much to gld and thank you to you for tuning in. Let's get back to the show. So you have these military programs that are doing this kind of stuff, but so many of these programs are classified, it's difficult to know what exactly is going on. I'm sure these same types of tests have been done in closed academic settings where you have researchers that are testing this stuff to see is it actually accurate, is it just a random guess? What can you tell me about actual closed sort of double blind tests that have been done by academic institutions?
- [42:10]
B
So we talked a little bit about sri and that's what SRI was doing. The Stanford Research Institute, I believe SAIC was also doing. Again, these are not like public institutions. I'm not aware of Stanford having done any of these. That doesn't mean that they didn't do that because that would be like Stanford University. That would be the first. There was a lab called pear. It stands for Paranormal Something something Lab. It was at Princeton University and that lasted for a few decades. And they proved this stuff exists. There's the Rhine center at Duke. There was a place in Brooklyn. I can never pronounce the name of the hospital. It's like M A I M O N D E S or something Mamiodes or something like that where they tested all sorts of different psychic functioning. Dean Radin continues to do experimental studies that show, you know, odds against chance of well over like a quadrillion for some of these sort of things.
- [43:21]
A
Wow. And like, how do these tests, like, how do they set them up? Like, what would be an example?
- [43:25]
B
Well, I'll give you one for since it's fresh in my mind. So it's a little bit similar topic, but let's say dream telepathy. Right. That sounds crazy. Well, it's real. So there was a gentleman. His name is Dr. Stanley Krippner. Right. I literally just interviewed him. But he was very interested in dreams. So he wanted to see if someone could communicate to somebody else in a dream. So the way he set up his study is he had somebody sleeping and they were measuring REM state. And then in another room they would give someone a picture and then they would tell the person with the picture who was awake. Just think about the picture, act out the picture, just find ways to communicate it to the person in the other room. And then when the person in the other room got into, they assessed they were in the REM sleep stage. They wait a little bit, but then they would wake them up and they would just say, what were you dreaming about? And they would kind of describe their Dreams. And then I believe they would just take those descriptions, give it to independent judges, give them like. I don't know, I'm just making this part up, but like 12 different pictures. And they would. One of which was the one that the person in the other room would show them. And based on the descriptions and if it was done right, which I believe it was, they wouldn't know what it was either. Right. It would be double blind. And they would just. Based on the description of the dreamer, they would pick the same picture that the person in the other room communicated. Now, it wasn't always that way, but odds against chance were overwhelming. So they did a number of different experiments like that. They also tested it against phases of the moon. They tested it against solar flares, like geomagnetic storms, basically. So the more geomagnetic activity there is, the less you dream, the less you are able to do any of this stuff. Phases of the moon. And this has been told to me by people who are occult experts, that generally has been reported across hermeticism and for eons that you're more likely to have dreams when the fuller the moon is so full moon, you'll have dreams. That's what Krippner's studies confirmed.
- [45:59]
A
Wow.
- [45:59]
B
He didn't even know that. Like, it's just the left hand's not talking to the right hand. So there's definitely stuff behind this. But there's similar studies that are like that that would have shown remote viewing. In fact, they brought in a statistician. I think her name was Jessica Utz or ut, something like that. And she was a statistician that reviewed a bunch of the targets that the military teams worked on. And she said, yeah, the odds against chance were it's impossible that it was anything other than that. Wow. Now, there was someone else who was working with her who came to the opposite conclusion, but it was a little bit. Oh, wow.
- [46:39]
A
So is this her?
- [46:40]
B
Yep.
- [46:41]
A
Can you go down to Wikipedia? I wonder if this is on there. Investigation of remote viewing. Can you click on that? So, yeah. 1995, American Institutes for Research appointed a panel consisting of UTs and or UTZ and Ray Hyman to evaluate a project investigating remote viewing. A report by Utz claimed the results were evidence of psychic functioning. However, Hyman in his report, argued Utz's conclusion that ESP had been proven to exist, especially precognition, was premature and the findings had not been independently replicated. Interesting. Now, Utz also co authored papers with the parapsychologist Edwin May, who took over Stargate in 1985, the psychologist David Marks noted that because Otz has been publishing papers with May, that she was not independent in her research, which is very convenient that the woman that found it to be the case actually was not independent at all. And actually all of her conclusions are bubkus. That's very interesting. Yeah, so they say, wow, it's fascinating that this kind of stuff is like, I've heard of these kinds of experiments being done in closed trials where you give someone a target and you put a color into an envelope and it's double blind where the person that's administering the envelope isn't even familiar with which color is in there. And they're able to determine which color is inside the envelope at like a 70 to 80% rate. Whereas, like, you know, I think it was like five or six different colors that could be in there. I mean, the odds of just randomly guessing it would be remarkably low. And to get it to that level of effectiveness is really interesting. It's also interesting to me that it's not 100%. So I guess at this point it's like, okay, this has been disclosed that's being used in the military, and that this has been used as military intelligence. You yourself, with your background, are 99% sure this is still being employed in some capacity. We have clinical trials within closed environmental conditions to actually test this stuff with alarming accuracy. This brings us to this point where it's like, how what is going on? How are people able to meditate or close their eyes and see things that they should not be able to see? What could possibly be going on?
- [48:51]
B
So this is where we get into lots of speculation.
- [48:54]
A
Right?
- [48:55]
B
So this is one that I've talked about before. There's something called E8 lattice theory. And this is not what the theory says, but I'm just kind of taking this theory and kind of trying to apply to it. But what it says is that reality is kind of made out of like an eight dimensional hypersphere, right? And then our reality is just a four dimensional time being the fourth dimension projection of that sphere. And the smallest unit of that reality is something called a these things called quasicrystals, which are of Planck length. And each reality you have these overlapping realities. And we could talk about that in the next episode, but we're a lower projection of the eight dimensional hypersphere. And you could imagine that there would be an infinite number of these shadows. So some of the phenomena that we might see could be just like you have a radio signal, there's Sometimes bleed over or there might be something in some other reality that figured out how to get through that. But putting that aside, if our reality is kind of based on this eight dimensional hypersphere, then if we were to extract ourselves upward, higher dimensions. It's just like if you're walking through where we are, right, in Brooklyn, right? I can't see an accident six miles away. But if somebody added a third dimension and was standing on top of a building, right. They would be able to see a lot farther than we would. Just think of it that way. And this is how remote viewing may operate. The other thing that is important to note is time might be simultaneous, right? So let's take. I'm throwing a lot of things out here, but take like paranormal activity, right? Where you see a ghost, right? Is that really someone who's dead or is that just some glitch in the matrix where that reality was. Since everything is simultaneous, is vibrating at a certain frequency and sometimes they just sink. You briefly see someone from 100 years ago, whereas, you know, since time is simultaneous, they're operating right now. They think you're the ghost. And then I'm not saying that's what it is. Again, speculating, but it operates on kind of that level. We have all have access to kind of this eight dimensional reality. To add a third thing you've heard about quantum entanglement, right? Well, if you take this hypersphere, it's kind of like a holographic projection. One of the key property of a hologram is that if you take a shard of the hologram, you can reconstitute the whole. You can reconstitute everything. So if we're shards or our reality is a shard of the hologram, we should have access as individual shards to the entire picture.
- [51:58]
A
When you say the hologram, what do you mean taking a shard of a hologram?
- [52:01]
B
Like the easiest way to describe it is when you're editing video software, right? If you take a sniper of the video software and then put it in another file, you can still reconstitute the entire video because all the information is there. I think some aspect of reality is we're all like that, we have access to everything. And again, it's like this gets New agey, we're all one and stuff. But I think that's the holographic principle that may. Again, I am speculating all this stuff. I could be completely off my rocker, but I think it operates in that way. And all these people are doing is they're just accessing that Information that we can all access.
- [52:44]
A
Interesting. So is anyone able, I guess you were describing, like, okay, not anyone is able, but, like me, for example, could I be taught how to remote view? And how would I be taught?
- [52:55]
B
You would just find somebody who has a remote viewing course and you would enroll in it. I mean, Future Forecasting Group has them. You can learn from Lyn Buchanan. You just go to his website and you can sign up for a course. Now, are you going to get. Ideally, you want to be trained personally, but you can still go online and take probably Coursera or whatever they. There's another one. I'm blanking on, but they're not paying me, so it doesn't matter. So, yeah, it's something that anybody can learn.
- [53:25]
A
Is it dangerous
- [53:30]
B
for most people? No. But there have been instances, like, very, very limited, where you just get access to this information and you start to have a God complex a little bit. But you have to be doing this every day, constantly. And the story I'll tell you about that is with David Morehouse, right? He kind of got to see how things worked. And what happens is your intuition goes on overdrive. So when you start to interact with people who are authority figures, it's easy to see. It's much easier to see right through them. And you're not as willing to just check yourself. And so you'll do things that are not great from a career perspective because you just. You see right through people. Right. And you realize that this guy's lying about everything.
- [54:34]
A
Right. You're no longer operating in the hierarchy of society. You're kind of removed from it. And as a result, you see this whole thing's an illusion. And then once you start acting like society is an illusion, the society is going to be pissed.
- [54:45]
B
Yeah. So when I said, yes, there's dangers, like I'm making it sound like there'll be a demon that inhabits you and takes you over. The dangers are more how the real world reacts and how you inter. So you're going to be much more intuitive. You'll start to see and hear things that you generally wouldn't pick up on. The other thing is, if you view the wrong target. I shouldn't say wrong target, but there are some targets that can put your life in jeopardy. Right. Let's say that I'm trying to think of something that. Let's say that you have the brilliant idea that you want to map all the US where every US ICBM is and what their corresponding targets are. And you publish that on the Internet, right?
- [55:38]
A
You're going to get a knock at
- [55:39]
B
the door, you're going to get disappeared as you should be. Right. Like so there's things like that. There are targets that Future Forecasting Group was offered an insane amount of money to do and they turned it down because learn and I don't know what the target was, but if the viewers got access to that information, it would put their lives in danger.
- [56:09]
A
Who was asking for the information?
- [56:10]
B
I don't know. This is one of those things that
- [56:13]
A
you just don't, you don't dig into.
- [56:14]
B
Yeah, I mean, let's say. No, I'm not even gonna speculate because I'll make it because I literally don't know. I don't know what the target. I just know that it was an obscene amount of money.
- [56:24]
A
Is it possible someone could know that they've been remote viewed?
- [56:31]
B
Yes, yes, if they're kind of trained to do that. When remote viewers remote view non human intelligences, they get noticed. Like Lyn Buchanan, when he remote viewed those four bases, they saw him and they're like, it's fine, look at what you want. You know, don't. You know, we're not, we're not going to be upset, but we see you, we know you're there.
- [57:00]
A
Which four bases?
- [57:02]
B
So Mount Zeal in Australia. There's a base in Zimbabwe. I forget what. Again, I'm saying it like there is. This is what they observe. There's multiple remote viewers observe these. Mount Hayes in Alaska. That's like right in the middle of the Alaskan Triangle where people always disappear. And then there's Mount Perdido in Spain. And that, that's a whole other thing. Like Steve Mera and I think Barry Fitzgerald ran a. Who should. You should definitely talk to those guys. They're focused on the phenomena. Right. And they look at places that have negative magnetic anomalies, which is generally where a lot of weird things tend to happen. And don't ask me to explain what negative magnetic anomaly is because I've asked that question like 60 times to different people and nobody can ever explain it to me. But it's just something weird going on with the magnetic field there. But there was a.
- [58:06]
A
So it says here from the AI on Google. It occurs when the local magnetic field in an area is weaker than the Earth's expected background magnetic field. It typically is caused by rocks with reverse magnetic polarity. Interesting. So ocean floor basalt that cooled and solidified during a period of the Earth's magnetic poles were flipped while magnetizing the opposite direction. Strange.
- [58:33]
B
Yeah. Now I can't remember. Can you look? This will be important. It won't make any sense. When I ask it though. Can you look where the majority of Canada's uranium mines are? I'll tell you in a second. It's related to Mount Perdida, which is strange. I just can't remember what the name of the.
- [58:52]
A
Now these four bases, they're. Okay, you got it here?
- [58:56]
B
Yes. Athabasca. The Athabasca Basin, the Saskatchewan. So when they investigated this Mount Perdido, like a lot of strange things happen. One of the things that they did is they had like a gp. Introducing Meta glasses. Hey Meta, any last minute tables for two tonight?
- [59:18]
A
Sure. There's a great Italian restaurant 15 minutes away.
- [59:22]
B
Hey Meta, where's the nearest flower shot?
- [59:25]
A
Five minutes away, straight down Broadway, past the bodega there.
- [59:29]
B
Lilies are trending on Instagram. Just saying. Hey, Meta, am I forgetting anything else? How about setting a calendar reminder for next year? Meta glasses available in more than 20 styles. Yes. And they sent a signal, a signal in that area. And the geomagnetic coordinates that came back were for the Athabasca basin, which is in Canada and Saskatchewan. So they think there's a portal that leads between the two or that it temporarily open. The odd thing is you said basalt. I didn't put that together until right now. There's a ton of basalt in that region where they mine the uranium.
- [60:13]
A
So another spot of potentially a reverse magnetic polarity.
- [60:17]
B
Yeah, potentially. I don't know for sure, but it has been reported that they just got this. It's just like, what the hell? Why are we getting the grid for a place that's thousands of miles away across the Atlantic Ocean?
- [60:33]
A
Strange.
- [60:33]
B
Yeah, there's a lot of weird stuff like that.
- [60:36]
A
So he looks at these bases and when you say base, you mean non human intelligence bases. And he goes to these places and he looks for something.
- [60:45]
B
Yeah. And he finds non human intelligences working with humans.
- [60:51]
A
So if we were to go to these places, will we see them in our present reality or is this something that exists in kind of like the liminal in between reality?
- [61:00]
B
We would see them. We would see them. Did I tell you all? Yeah, I told you all four.
- [61:07]
A
And like, can anyone go to these places or do you think they're. Are they blocked off by government?
- [61:12]
B
They're. No, you can. Well, if you go to Mount Hayes, you'll very likely disappear because that's the Alaska Triangle. Right. It's like right in the middle. And there's a huge number of disappearances there.
- [61:26]
A
I mean, this one in Spain, though,
- [61:28]
B
I mean, so a lot of weird. Like if you talk to the locals, they see UFOs all the time, but they don't, they see it so often they don't talk about it, so. Or they don't put much like, yeah, we saw one of these cigar shaped things going overhead, et cetera. And you get, when these, when these guys went there, they got really sick. Like when Steve described it to me, it sounded to me like radiation sickness. So, yeah, there's, there's lots of weirdness. Not safe to word.
- [61:58]
A
You said haze in Alaska, Spain, Mount Perdido. Mount Perdido. And then what were the other two?
- [62:05]
B
Mount Zeal in Alaska. And then Mount. That's a place in Zimbabwe. I can't pronounce it.
- [62:14]
A
I mean, isn't Zimbabwe also the place where that craft landed for all those kids?
- [62:18]
B
Yes. Rua. Yeah.
- [62:20]
A
Hmm. And if you were just to walk up to these places, you think that something or somehow you would be rejected from going in there or potentially disappear.
- [62:32]
B
Potentially disappear. Now, Mount Hayes, Alaska, I put the highest confidence that you would disappear because it's in the middle of rugged mountainous terrain in Alaska. Right. So any number of things could happen. You could be eaten by bears, you could be. It's just there's an obscene number of people that disappear when they go in there. It could also be that they discover, they walk, uncover this thing and then they're disappeared.
- [62:59]
A
So Buchanan goes and remote views these places and whatever non human intelligence is there saw him and was like, oh, we know that you're doing this now. I've also heard a story, I forget who it was, that someone remote viewed another planet and started to see all sorts of weird stuff, basically like a factory or something like that of human intelligence.
- [63:21]
B
They did this all the time. Like they.
- [63:24]
A
Was that Ingo Swan? I don't think it was Ingo Swan.
- [63:26]
B
They all did. Like Ed Dames, who recently passed as practice targets. He would have people.
- [63:35]
A
Oh, yes, it was Ingo Swann. So in a recorded session, prominent psychic Ingo Swan was tasked to remotely view the planet Jupiter. Six years before the NASA Voyager mission, Swan reported the planet possessed a thin atmosphere. Oh, that's right. So at the time, astronomers did not widely accept that Jupiter had a ring system. But Swan's observations were later confirmed by the Voyager flybys. Now there was another one. Oh, it might have been McGonagall.
- [63:59]
B
Yes, McGonagall was the Mars one a million years back. Yeah, that's McGonagall.
- [64:04]
A
Reportedly visualized the red planet as having ancient Earth like atmosphere, massive pyramid like structures, and indigenous extraterrestrial beings. And I think, according to the story, that he sort of goes to this place, remote views it, and that they look at him and he's sort of seeing what they're doing. And then I think on maybe one or two different occasions is like, shut out and like kind of pushed out of the view and is kind of like sent back or something to that effect. And that there was like a haze that was all around. It's escaping me the exact details, but it's these kinds of things that it's like, okay, well, now this is wild.
- [64:40]
B
Well, my question would be, why did the CIA send them a million years back?
- [64:45]
A
Right.
- [64:45]
B
Well, they knew something and they were just trying to kind of verify it. So, I mean, you've heard about the face on Mars. Sidonia, there's another one on Galaxis. Chaos, you familiar with that? So there's another one that Dr. John Brandenburg found. He also, using the radiological mapping of where like lithium and argon were, like the isotopes of those are placed on the planet. It looks like there were two extremely large, like the size of skyscrapers, thermonuclear weapons that were dropped on those two locations that basically evaporated the Martian Ocean about 250 million years ago, something like that.
- [65:33]
A
And that's this one?
- [65:34]
B
Yep, that's Galaxis Chaos. See the face up in the upper
- [65:39]
A
left right now, wait, so who did that view?
- [65:45]
B
No, it wasn't remote viewing. That was like the Viking expedition picked up pictures of that stuff.
- [65:53]
A
It looked like a thermonuclear.
- [65:55]
B
Oh, they did a radiological survey on one of the Mars missions, and Dr. John Brandenburg analyzed it. He saw that for certain isotopes on that planet, they weren't found anywhere else in the solar system. Right. Because our solar system has the same kind of radiological scheme, basically, except for places on Earth where we tested thermonuclear weapons and Mars. And the only other thing that we know of, it could be maybe something else, some phenomenon we're not aware of yet that can have a signature like that is a thermonuclear weapon or a supernova. And we're still here. So it's not a supernova.
- [66:44]
A
Wow.
- [66:45]
B
So what he did is he analyzed rock samples or they analyzed rock samples kind of 250 to 500 million years back that had hit Earth that didn't have these isotopic ratios and then stuff that hit Earth since that did. So something happened. So it could be that whatever was left there, because it wasn't that he just went a million years back. He went go a million years back to as far as there were people that were left there. So these might have been the same people who had survived that cataclysm. Wow. So, yeah, this stuff is. He's also the guy that discovered the ocean on Mars, but they didn't credit it to him because it was tied to this theory.
- [67:30]
A
Oh, really?
- [67:31]
B
Yep.
- [67:31]
A
Oh, wow. And what was his name?
- [67:33]
B
Dr. John Brandenburg.
- [67:34]
A
John Brandenburg. I gotta look into him.
- [67:36]
B
Yeah, he's a plasma physicist. Yeah.
- [67:39]
A
What do you know about plasma?
- [67:41]
B
Oh, man, that's a whole other.
- [67:43]
A
I just downloaded a new Science of the Heavens by Robert Temple.
- [67:47]
B
I have not read that book, but I keep hearing about it.
- [67:49]
A
There was a. Randall Carlson told me about it.
- [67:52]
B
There was a call for papers back in September of 2024 at Harvard about sentient plasmo. So, like, with plasma, you can basically have. They exhibit signs of what appear to be intelligent control, reproduction, all sorts of stuff. It just happens, like, much faster than in. Or appears to happen, I should say much faster than in human or like in organic life.
- [68:20]
A
Right. I mean, it's what, 90 to 99% of the known universe is plasma of
- [68:26]
B
the known visible universe. Yeah.
- [68:27]
A
Right.
- [68:29]
B
There's dark matter and dark. Well, that's just what they use to stuff they can't explain.
- [68:34]
A
Right. What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break real quick. Cause I want to tell you about a brand that I actually love. You've probably seen ads for it on Instagram, and it's Ultra. It's the best. As you already know, I'm super locked in on fitness and sleep and fasting and all that kind of stuff. And one thing that I care about now is getting energy and focus without feeling, like, jittery and cracked out and on edge. Like, my heart is beating out of my chest. And that's why I reached out to Ultra. Ultra pouches have zero nicotine, zero caffeine pouches that give you clean focus and smooth energy when you need to lock in. And a lot of people think pouches are helping them at the gym, but nicotine is actually a vasoconstrictor. It actually narrows your blood vessels and restricts oxygen delivery to your muscles and can actually work against the pump that you're trying to get. It also can raise your heart rate and your blood pressure, which is not exactly what you want when you're already training super hard. Ultra gives you that pouch experience. It's fun, it tastes good, but it's 100 nicotine free. And they use clinically proven nootropics and adaptogens to deliver immediate focus and smooth energy that lasts one to two hours. And if you're fasting, you're dieting, they actually can help you quiet the cravings and limit the food noise to help keep you locked in. And they have five flavors. Cool Mint, Wintergreen, Watermelon, Tropical Blue razz. My favorite is Blue Blue raspberry and it tastes amazing. I have the watermelon ones right here because I already finished the blue razz, but these are great too. Now Ultra is the ultimate guilt free pouch, delivering instant focus and mental clarity without nicotine or caffeine. And new customers can use the Code Camp C A M p to get 15% off when you go to take ultra.com that's take ultra.com for 15% off with the Code Camp. And after you purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. Please tell them that Mark increased us from the campsite sent you. Now let's get back to the show. Now, your theory as to what's going on with remote viewing, this sort of reality paradigm where we exist sort of in this measurable observable reality, but there's actually a more broad reality that's sort of on top of that. I guess in a way, yeah, we're
- [70:30]
B
just like a shadow or a hologram, like a projection of a much deeper and more information dense reality.
- [70:39]
A
And that kind of can account for precognitive dreams 100%. I mean, telepathy to an extent. I mean, basically all these sort of psi phenomenon that people are talking about are kind of connected to that understanding of reality.
- [70:55]
B
Yeah, psychokinesis, same thing.
- [70:58]
A
And precognitive dreams is something that you've also kind of looked at and experienced to an extent. Is that true?
- [71:04]
B
Yeah. So what I do is anything that has that flavor, I'll just write it down and I'll publish it. And then the thing that we just talked about at the very beginning with the. I'm not sure if that's a precognitive dream. Right. But it sure as hell was a weird synchronicity. Right. But I've had other things that. I'll give you one specific example. I had a dream back in, I think, March of 2020, 25. I wrote it down on my YouTube channel, my community thing, just to timestamp it, basically. And I saw people in winter green uniforms with white lettering and there was also a hint of orange somewhere else. And they were protesting. And for whatever reason, I'm like, I knew it was in Missoula, Montana, and there was a redheaded guy yelling at somebody, okay? So in December of 2025, Starbucks and Amazon had labor strikes in Missoula, Montana. And there wasn't a redheaded guy in the video of local news, but it was a redheaded woman that was in there. Amazon has. It's like an orange, black and white, Right. And then, as you know, like, Starbucks is that hunter green and white? So it's not perfect, but that's a pretty solid hit, Right?
- [72:42]
A
Specifically being in Missoula. Yeah, that's so interesting.
- [72:46]
B
So what does happen is if you start writing your dreams down, you'll start noticing it more often. It doesn't happen all the time. I can't control it, but I think everybody can do it. If you read Time Loops by Eric Wargo, I mean, I'll give you other really weird examples, right. It's not even a dream. But take my master's thesis, right? Like, I wrote it 20 years ago. It's happening now. I published a anthology. I was an editor of an anthology. It's called weird World War Three. It had the U.S. against Russia. Right. It came out in, I think, 2020. Putin invaded Ukraine in 2022. Right. So there's, you know, is that perfect? Kind of. No, but I mean, it's weird with those examples.
- [73:36]
A
It's like, well, you are an academic that's working in a specific field, studying things and able to kind of infer things. Right?
- [73:42]
B
Correct.
- [73:42]
A
There's been many people, like, wrote about, like, you know, potential tensions with Iran erupting in some capacity. We've been talking about this for, like, 30 years.
- [73:48]
B
100%.
- [73:49]
A
Or maybe even since 79.
- [73:51]
B
100%.
- [73:51]
A
So with that, it's like, it's a
- [73:53]
B
little bit plausibly deniable.
- [73:55]
A
Right. That one's a little easier for me to be like, well, you might have just been, you know, a great researcher and inferring things and able to kind of like predict some future stuff. But something like a dream that's really uncontrollable that then manifests is very strange. I remember reading a story of a woman that was. I'm sure I could find her name. But she basically, I think, had been involved. Oh, it's actually she was leaving her synagogue and I think was like, struck by lightning in the parking lot.
- [74:20]
B
Like, oh, I've heard this one here to.
- [74:22]
A
Here to near hit a nearby tree. And she ends up going to the hospital, and then, since then, starts having, like, weird dreams. And so she goes and sees a psychologist because the dreams keep on kind of manifesting in like, a really uncomfortable way. And she didn't want this to happen. She wanted to stop. She was like, can you give me a drug to make me stop dreaming? And she goes and basically tells her therapist everything. And then the therapist is like, well, every time you have a dream, just email it to me. That way it's time stamp. And then with a very strange regularity, these dreams start getting timestamped. And one significant famous one is she's like, I had a dream. And I think this is probably she's writing this around like 2007 or 8 or something. And she timestamps it to her therapist, who, again, is not someone involved in this world. It's just a regular old therapist. And her dream is that there's a plane flying through New York City. She thinks it's another terror attack. She's afraid. And then the plane crashes into the Hudson. And then within the next week, Sully Sullenberger lands his plane onto the Hudson, basically, as she described it. And it was, I think, published in a couple journals because they were like, well, we have the timestamp, and then this thing happens. It's a pretty specific time and place. Okay. Elizabeth Greenfield Crone, a woman from Houston who was struck by lightning outside of her Synagogue in 1988. And, yeah, she's getting out of the car and then has this near death experience. If you scroll down, you can see some of the dreams. So, yeah, prescient nightmares that predict natural disasters. Do you have an example of one of these ones that she predicts?
- [75:52]
B
Not her, but. Have you looked into Christopher Robinson? So he worked for 30 years for MI6 and MI5, and he was a precognitive dreamer, but he would see they would use him to foil IRA plots. And he saw the Lockerbie bombing before it happened. And it was so intense that he insisted that they write that. He, like, write it down and put it in an affidavit, like a sworn affidavit the day before it happened. And Scotland Yard was like, I don't know if you want to do this, because if it happens, they might suspect that you had something to do with it. He's just like, no, no, we have to do this. Like, I have to. And of course it happened. But he's strangely. He doesn't get a lot of attention. Like, it's so strange that it's suspicious.
- [76:43]
A
Matthew Christopher Robinson, he's a British.
- [76:47]
B
He saw 9 11, too. He just didn't know if it was going to be in New York or London. And he also had a relationship with Thomas Drake. Are you familiar with him? He was an essay whistleblower. He was the one who was talking about this collection methodology that was completely illegal. They were collecting on American citizens. And he, you know, he had to do some time and it kind of ruined his life. And he's coming back now, but wow. He knew Christopher Robinson. And Christopher Robinson warned him that he was going to be. He's going to get nine charges. And the dream he had was like the nine bottles of beer on the wall. Right. And he said, you know, he called him up and I'm sure, like FBI was, because it's a transatlantic call, was hearing this call and basically was. He was trying to alert Thomas Drake that he was going to get nine charges. He was going to beat all of them. Right. So can you imagine being the FBI, knowing that you're building a case on this guy and then he gets tipped off and having a precognitive dreamer telling him that he was going to be charged. And of course, Thomas Drake's like, that's ridiculous. It's not going to happen. Kind of like, relax. And sure as hell he did.
- [78:02]
A
Wow. That is crazy. So, yeah, he's a former executive of the nsa. Wow.
- [78:11]
B
But there are connections here that you just don't hear about publicly. Like, Chris Mellon knows about Christopher Robinson. Right. He spoke to him personally and said, look, we don't have remote viewers, as he called him, a remote viewer, but he's more of a precognitive dreamer. But he's like, we don't have people who can do it do it as well as you do. Wow.
- [78:28]
A
So now, how does this interface with, like, your theory, I guess, of like, reality? Like, is there a God in this example? Is there a shared consciousness in this example? Like, what does that look like for you on, like, a personal basis?
- [78:43]
B
So there's a God, but I don't know what to. I don't know what to call him. I mean, I grew up Catholic. I still kind of. As a hedge. Right. You've heard of Pascal's Wager, Right. So I kind of will pray we'll rely on that to ground me so that I don't get too far into the. You know, you get into some of this stuff, it can take you to some dislike. We haven't talked about. We talked almost entirely about divination, but we haven't talked about. And these are definitions that Dean Radin came up with. We haven't talked about enchantment and we haven't talked about theurgy. Right. Which is. Theurgy is like the invocation of, for lack of a better word, non human intelligences. God could be one, it could be others. And even Dean Radin will tell you enchantment and divination is kind of one thing, but once you start messing like with theurgy, that's when people kind of can easily go off the rails because you don't know what you're dealing with.
- [79:44]
A
Interesting.
- [79:44]
B
But yeah, again, God. I believe that there's a God. Now, what is the nature of that God? It could be worse. Shards of one consciousness that's experiencing itself. It sounds very new agey, but, you know, and everything could have some level of consciousness. Right. Even the table, things like that. And there's some quantum physics to support some level of that. Right.
- [80:09]
A
Describe as like panpsychism. It was like a term kind of to touch on this idea.
- [80:14]
B
Yeah. And there's at one point the government. My understanding. So this could be pure speculation, but my understanding is that one of the reasons they don't want all this out is that once people realize they can. It's kind of a co creation kind of reality. Once people realize that they can have more control of reality than they think. You have something called, you risk something called panpsychic collapse. Right. That's why there's such this huge effort on narrative control. You got to keep everybody on the same sheet of music. Because if it starts to diverge, I think they were worried about reality kind of shattering in some sense.
- [81:03]
A
I don't know, like literal reality, that it's somehow being subsisted by the fact that people don't know about it.
- [81:11]
B
Yeah, everybody. That's why there's so much effort in terms of getting everybody in a common narrative.
- [81:19]
A
We exist in sort of the shared reality. And once people diverge from it and manipulating their own reality in some way
- [81:25]
B
on a physical level, it starts to unwind. Yeah, there was some like, I have a friend who was tasked on a project for someone who was in the orbit of somebody in the government. It could be it was just some random crazy pet project. But that was the concern that he looked at was what's the risk of panpsychic collapse? It was very philosophical. It wasn't grounded. But yeah.
- [82:01]
A
Now you yourself have remote viewed before.
- [82:05]
B
I've had training in it and I've done one or two targets. I'm not very good Because I have no practice.
- [82:12]
A
And why do you not practice more time? Really? What. What fills the rest of the gaps of time? To me, I'm like, this is so exciting. If I was like, I know, like, as connected as you are, I'd be like, dude, I'd be practicing all the time.
- [82:25]
B
There's other things you can try that are, you know, not disclosed or that you can at this point. Like the whole disclosure movement. We could talk about the that, but I've given up on the government. They're not going to tell us anything. So, again, this is why the grounding with how I was raised kind of helps keep me there. Because you try to experiment with different things, right? So like dreaming, trying to visit other people in dreams, things like that. Just testing it out, Getting consent from somebody, seeing what they experience, and then trying it again or not trying it. There's other things that I think we might be capable of that the only way you're ever going to find out
- [83:17]
A
is if you try and you've had success with that.
- [83:20]
B
I mean, define success. I've told somebody, hey, I'm going to try it. And then the next day they either say, don't ever do that again, or. But it could be. Right. It's a correlation thing. It's. It's not a definitive causation thing. Right. It could be that maybe I triggered their subconscious and then they had a dream, and then I had a dream that had similar results. Right. But there. It could have. It could have been entirely separate. I had nothing to do with. Could be that I did interact in some fundamental way, or it could be something interacted on my behalf in a fundamental way. There's an episode that we did. Are you familiar with Laird Baron?
- [84:11]
A
I'm familiar with the name, yeah.
- [84:13]
B
So he's probably the finest horror writer of our generation. He had a movie that was made, I think it was called they Remain, something like that. On one of his novellas called 30 and his entire Life. And he's an interesting character in and of himself. He's got, like, a very dark. Dark. He's a good guy, but, like a dark history. So he competed in the Iditarod. Like, he's, like, from Alaska. All sorts of crazy Alaska stories. His grandfather, like, disappeared. They thought he may have been eaten by a bear. Like, just crazy, crazy stuff. But growing up, his dreams were haunted. Until recently, he was haunted his entire life and his dreams by this entity. Oddly enough, it inspired a lot of the horror that he wrote. But he had other family members that saw this Thing physically in person. And it was just like this tall, pale man that had, like, an elongated torso and would just kind of, like, taunt family members and then just kind of just like, disappear, like, evaporate into the. So his brother, who had experienced this, won't talk about it anymore. And it's like hardcore Pentecostal, kind of just pushed in that direction.
- [85:33]
A
So not even in dreams. Just, like, physically saw this in the kitchen. This entity would show up.
- [85:38]
B
Well, saw him. The two instances. Well, actually, Solomon, a basement during his childhood sleepover. Saw him in Alaska, like, outside. And then one morning, he was in front of him walking to school, and then just kind of faded into the snowbank. So, anyway, whatever this thing was would haunt Laird his entire. And there's a whole episode on this where we're talking about it together. So you want to try this dream experiment and just see if we can get rid of this thing. I don't know what the hell I'm doing. Right, but let's just see what happens. In two previous examples with friends, I would just do it. I would ask them for permission, and I would do it. And then they would have horrific nightmares. So I would say, maybe it was just my. Again, could be I triggered some subconscious thing. Like, I fully admit that this is not scientific study, but there were meaningful impacts. So I would pray when I would try it on somebody else, and it would moderate it. So I kind of said a prayer. And we had separate dreams. But the one night that we. I think it was actually synchronistically, it was on the Sunday night, and it was a waning gibbous moon, which, in occult circles, I didn't know this was the best time for banishments and whatever. Again, I don't participate in the cult or any of that stuff. But he had one dream that night. I had a series of three dreams. So the first dream that I had had was I was in a hotel room. No, not hotel. Motel room I didn't want to be in. And all these people came into the hotel room or motel room, I keep saying. And I didn't want them in there. Felt really uncomfortable. And someone had stolen $500. And then he may have showed up or a friend. I can't remember exactly who it was. And he's like, hey, you want to come to this restaurant? It's my favorite restaurant, or whatever. And I'm like, my dad's there. And I'm like, I need to call the police. And my dad's like, no, you're an idiot. You shouldn't have left $500 there. You're never gonna get it back. Whatever. So anyway, I reluctantly go. He goes into this restaurant. It's a maze. Can't find. Okay, the second dream, I'm in my bedroom. My son's kind of laying next to me and. Have you ever seen the Outer Limits? Like that old show. There's a. Okay, I'm trying to think of this a way. Have you ever been to Washington state? Have you ever seen those ant mounds that are like the size of people? Okay, so the best way I can explain this is at the foot of my bed. We're on the second floor. But this thing somehow manages to push itself up out of the bed. Like out of the bed. And, you know, kind of at the foot of my bed you have this like ant mound, like thing. And there are these like ant. Like two, like ant, like entities, brownish, kind of with like a bat sort of flavor. And I kind of recognize them in the dream and I just kind of acknowledge them and I feel a little bit uneasy. But then they just start burrowing back down and then burrowing back up under my feet. I'm like, oh, hell no. Then the next dream I have, same night, there's. I'm in my kind of backyard at home as a child. Now, I'm not a child in the dream, but I see this above ground pool that we had. There's a lance, and the lance is impaling the six silhouettes. And there's a presence behind me. And I kind of say to the presence, I'm like, don't you think that's kind of a little much, a little provocative? And the voice is like, no, it's fine. So Laird, that night, he has a separate dream throughout his life. This entity is like, no matter what he did in his dreams, it would always just mock him, plague them and hurt people they love. Like he would. He started working out when he was younger, so he would like dismember it in the dream and it would still taunt him, stuff like that. In his dream, he saw this entity. It was like superhero physique, right? And it was screaming at him. And it kind of had like red sort of skin, like just white hot, like off color eyes screaming at him inside a magic circle. And then it morphed into a Australian shepherd, which is a dog that he kind of likes. And then that thing starts growling, starts going crazy, and it's just running around the circle, trapped. And he said after that he didn't have any dreams like that. About a week later, something came back and we did the same thing, same exercise. I actually have to connect with them, see if it ever came back. And I said, well, let's just try to do it again. And he was in the airport and there was like a bag of trash and he would have had to throw something out or something. And he opens it up and there's this guy's head and there's all these, like, body parts and it's like starting to come back together. And he said that this figure from behind, you know, at the airport. He was at the airport when this is happening. He jumped over the. The cashier's desk or whatever the heck it was. He said it was just a shadow and helped him contain this thing and that was it. So again, correlation does not imply causation. But as far as I know, he hasn't reached back out.
- [91:27]
A
Wow.
- [91:27]
B
So I don't know what happened. It's just he's been plagued with this thing.
- [91:31]
A
And you do this sort of dream thing and you just kind of set your intention before you.
- [91:36]
B
I actually prayed for this one. I actually asked, I prayed to God, I prayed to St. Michael, and I prayed to St. Gabriel or the Archangel Michael and Gabriel. So that's why I said it could be. It could be me. It could be one of, you know, just some non human intelligence that took care of this thing. But whatever it was, it was. It was fucking pissed.
- [91:56]
A
Wow. Bizarre.
- [91:58]
B
Just bizarre. I can't explain what it is. I'm just laying out, like, the correlations again for the audience. It could totally be. I'm totally open to it being the subconscious of both of us just feeding off of each other. I don't know. But he's never had a dream like that before, right?
- [92:16]
A
And the outcome is that this thing is now not plaguing him anymore. So even if, as far as I
- [92:20]
B
know, I haven't reached out to him
- [92:21]
A
recently, but even if it's purely placebo, it's like, well, yeah, yeah, it worked.
- [92:25]
B
Yeah, it could be a placebo effect, 100%.
- [92:26]
A
Right? But it also could be some type of entanglement in some maybe other realm. Sean, thank you so much, brother. I really appreciate it. This is awesome. Where can people find your show if they want to stay connected?
- [92:37]
B
So Through a Glass Darkly with Sean, I couldn't get the Through a Glass Darkly, but you can find that on YouTube. You can also find me on SeanPatrick hazlett.com. it's just a generic website. Find me on Twitter at Sean Phaselet that x whatever.com and I'm on Facebook. I'm on Instagram, although I don't check it as much. I have a TikTok account now. It's the Tagd podcast there.
- [93:04]
A
And if people want to learn more about remote viewing specifically, where's the best place for that?
- [93:08]
B
So go to the Future Forecasting Group. That's a good place to start. Also look up Lynn Buchanan 1N. Also look up David Morehouse. Paul Smith, also pretty good. Daz Smith was another person. And then Ed Reardon.
- [93:22]
A
Amazing. Sean. Thank you so much, brother. I appreciate it. Let's do it soon.
- [93:25]
B
Yeah. This is awesome. Thank you, Mark.
- [93:27]
A
Hey, guys, if you love conspiracies and hypothetical history, well, I want to invite you to check out signal 33. This is a companion pod to our podcast here at camp. It's made and edited by the same team that runs all of our shows. And I choose the topics every single week. So check it out. Subscribe and start the dialogue in the comment section.