The Most Wanted Criminal in History: The Legend of DB Cooper

Summary

Summary of "Camp Gagnon" Podcast Episode: "The Most Wanted Criminal in History: The Legend of DB Cooper"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Camp Gagnon
• Host: Mark Gagnon
• Episode: The Most Wanted Criminal in History: The Legend of DB Cooper
• Release Date: April 18, 2025

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Introduction

In this captivating episode of "Camp Gagnon," host Mark Gagnon and co-host David embark on an in-depth exploration of one of America's most enduring mysteries: the case of D.B. Cooper. The duo sets the stage by vividly recounting the audacious hijacking that occurred over 50 years ago, enticing listeners with the enigmatic tale of a man who vanished without a trace.

"Picture this. A man in a suit boards an airplane for a short flight. Midway through the flight, he hijacks it, demands $200,000 in cash and a parachute, and then in the middle of the night, jumps out of the plane and vanishes." [00:00] — Mark Gagnon

The Hijacking

Mark delves into the specifics of the hijacking of Northwest Orient Airlines Flight 305 on November 24, 1971. Describing the flight's routine nature, he contrasts it with the unexpected and bold actions of the hijacker, later identified as D.B. Cooper.

"The Boeing 727 is less than 1/3 full. Just trying to reach their destination before the holiday." [02:30] — Mark Gagnon

David adds personal reflections, highlighting the seemingly ordinary nature of the passengers and the sudden emergence of a highly calculated threat.

"Hey there travelers." [00:15] — David

Cooper's Demands

The conversation shifts to Cooper's precise demands: $200,000 in unmarked bills and four parachutes. Mark analyzes the significance of these requests, suggesting they indicate premeditation and a deep understanding of aviation protocols.

"He basically says this is what he wants. $200,000 in unmarked $20 bills." [08:41] — Mark Gagnon

David questions the practicality of requesting four parachutes, pondering Cooper's intentions behind such specificity.

"He's like, dude, my dreams are rich and flying around." [08:56] — David

The Parachute Jump

Mark breaks down the mechanics and risks associated with Cooper's parachute jump. He highlights the challenging weather conditions, including freezing temperatures and violent storms, that would have made the escape perilous.

"The sustained winds of 170 miles an hour, midnight, no visibility." [07:00] — Mark Gagnon

David emphasizes the improbability of survival given the harsh environmental factors and Cooper's attire, questioning the feasibility of his escape.

"He was like, I'm going to jump out south of the border. Dollar goes a long way there, right?" [15:54] — David

The FBI Manhunt

The podcast details the extensive manhunt launched by the FBI, encompassing hundreds of military personnel and advanced surveillance techniques. Despite these efforts, Cooper evades capture, deepening the mystery surrounding his fate.

"Within hours, the FBI establishes Operation Norjak Northwest Hijacking." [26:50] — Mark Gagnon

David humorously suggests potential shortcomings in the investigation, reflecting the frustration and bewilderment of those following the case.

"Theories get even deeper when you consider... he's sitting in an empty plane with 200,000 in cash." [09:39] — David

Theories and Suspects

Mark and David explore various theories and potential suspects that have emerged over the decades. From military-trained veterans to unconventional suspects, the duo assesses the plausibility and evidence supporting each claim.

Joe Weber

"Weibers' background as a licensed pilot and experienced parachutist made him a plausible suspect." [60:33] — Mark Gagnon

Robert Rackstraw

"He was younger than Cooper's estimated age... family members claimed he was with them in Utah during the hijacking." [66:04] — Mark Gagnon

Kenneth Christensen

"Christensen's session of purchasing a house in cash shortly after the hijacking raised red flags." [72:31] — Mark Gagnon

Barbara Dayton

"Barbara Dayton's post-transition behavior didn't align with Cooper's bold and commanding presence." [63:18] — Mark Gagnon

David and Mark discuss the eclectic mix of suspects, scrutinizing their backgrounds, alibis, and the credibility of their claims.

Key Evidence

The hosts examine crucial pieces of evidence left behind by Cooper, including his tie and the ransom money. They discuss how advancements in forensic technology have attempted to shed light on the case, albeit with limited success.

"In February 1978, a hunter found a placard from the hijacked aircraft, narrowing down Cooper's exit point." [43:08] — Mark Gagnon

David raises questions about the integrity and condition of the evidence found years later, adding layers to the investigation's complexity.

"How does it fall straight down? Wind interference... it's not a riddle." [46:22] — David

Modern Investigations and Ongoing Mysteries

Mark highlights the continual efforts by both the FBI and amateur sleuths to uncover new leads. He discusses recent discoveries and how they contribute—or fail to contribute—to solving the mystery.

"Eric Ulis took a closer look at Cooper's tie under a high-powered microscope, discovering rare metal particles." [80:09] — Mark Gagnon

David reflects on popular culture influences, such as depictions in television shows, which keep the legend of D.B. Cooper alive in public consciousness.

"I was keeping the hope alive. I didn't know all the information. Okay, wait, what is this three day." [85:41] — Mark Gagnon

Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Mark and David acknowledge the enduring allure of the D.B. Cooper case. Despite extensive investigations and numerous theories, the true identity and fate of Cooper remain shrouded in mystery, making it a tantalizing subject for history buffs and true crime enthusiasts alike.

"Regardless, D.B. Cooper remains America's only unsolved commercial airline hijacking, captivating public interest for decades." [50:37] — Mark Gagnon

"Perhaps DB Cooper is still alive to this day, still living out in the wilderness of the Pacific Northwest with an encampment he's cited every now and again by CooperCon researchers." [86:47] — Mark Gagnon

The hosts invite listeners to share their own theories and engage with the ongoing fascination surrounding one of history's most intriguing criminal cases.

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This summary encapsulates the essential discussions and insights from the "Camp Gagnon" episode on D.B. Cooper, providing a comprehensive overview while highlighting key moments and quotes for added depth and engagement.

Transcript

[Mark Gagnon]

Picture this. A man in a suit boards an airplane for a short flight. Midway through the flight, he hijacks it, demands $200,000 in cash and a parachute, and then in the middle of the night, jumps out of the plane and vanishes.

[David]

Hey there travelers.

[Mark Gagnon]

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[David]

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[Mark Gagnon]

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[David]

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[Mark Gagnon]

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[David]

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[Mark Gagnon]

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[David]

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[Mark Gagnon]

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[David]

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[Mark Gagnon]

@Mintmobile.Com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan, equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate, first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full [e-mail] all of the money. Sounds crazy. Well, this actually happened on Thanksgiving Eve, 1971. And over 50 years later, the culprit has yet to be found. Some of the money has shown up, but yet what has happened to the infamous DB Co? Did he survive? Where did all the money go? How did he escape? Many people have confessed to being DB Cooper and many people have been alleged to be the famous criminal. But yet no one has ever been convicted. Well, today we're going to try to solve it. That's right. We're going to be diving into America's only unsolved hijack. So sit back, relax, and welcome to camp. November 24, 1971, day before Thanksgiving. The Northwest Orient Airlines Flight 305, which is a hilarious name for an airline, the Northwest Orient. What is that even? This is the Asian airline. They prepared for a routine 30 minute trip, Portland to Seattle. You know, two wonderfully mediocre cities. Actually, let me tell you back, Seattle is nice. Portland is, you know, worse for wear. The weather is dreary, right? Typical with low clouds, steady rain. The Boeing 727 is less than 1/3 full. You know, great flight. Everyone gets an aisle, and it's only. Only carrying 36 passengers. Just trying to reach their destination before the holiday. All time. You know, one of the worst days to fly, the day before Thanksgiving, and you're sitting on this flight, you have a whole row to yourself. You're like, dude, this is amazing. I'm on, literally trying to go see my family in Seattle. I live. I'm a barista in Portland. I work at a strip club. Drive through, and I just want to go home. And then what happens? There's a guy seated next to you seems a little shifty. He's a little. You know, he's got a. Got a hat, he got glasses, and his name is Dan Cooper. You ever heard of Dan Cooper, David? No, never heard of him.

[David]

I know D.B. cooper.

[Mark Gagnon]

Oh, really? Oh, you know his alias? Yeah, all time.

[David]

Is that actually his first name?

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, that's the name of the person that booked the ticket back in the day. Air travel was like. Is fake. Like, you just show up with, like, a suitcase. And they'd be like, do you have an id? You'd be like, I have a. I have a picture of my. Myself. And they'd be like, yeah, good enough. Polaroid.

[David]

Just trust me.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, just take my word for it. Like, why are you being all weird? Christos, have you heard of the D.B. cooper story? It's all time. I'm the one petitioning to do an episode. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. You are the one that has been. That has been trying to figure it out. Do you think you have a theory about who did it? That's easy. I think it was Dan Cooper. Well, who was this guy? Imagine this nondescript man, you know, he shows up, buys a ticket using the name Dan Cooper, and he's assigned a seat, 18C. There's probably. I think it's an aisle seat near the rear of the aircraft.

[David]

It's window 18C.

[Mark Gagnon]

A, B. Well, I'm thinking it's three and three.

[David]

Exactly. Oh, yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

A, B, C, D, E, F. I don't know. He's wearing a business suit, white shirt, nice black tie, overcoat. He's got a briefcase and an attache, which. Can we get a picture of an attache? Because I've. I've heard this term so many times, and it's a great word to throw out there, but I don't really know what it is.

[David]

It's the yellow hats the Jews wore.

[Mark Gagnon]

Is. Is that what it was that the Pope made him wear? No. An attache. It's like, oh, it's like a. Oh, yeah, they wouldn't.

[David]

Briefcase.

[Mark Gagnon]

It's like a. I don't know where.

[David]

You put your suits in when you travel.

[Mark Gagnon]

Okay, that's nice. So he's walking on. Just looks like a regular guy just going to Seattle. Right. Flight attendant Florence Schaffner noticed something unusual about Cooper. So as he's getting on, the flight takes off around 2:50pm ascending through the rainy skies, trying to get to cruising altitude. Shortly after takeoff, Cooper catches this flight attendant's attention, hands her a note, thinking it was his phone number. Typical, right? The most, like, womanly thing. She's like, oh, my God, these men are pigs.

[David]

What year is this?

[Mark Gagnon]

1971.

[David]

Okay, yeah, if this was in the 50s, you can just like Mad Men just. Yeah, exactly.

[Mark Gagnon]

Just as she's coming through the drink cart. So that's not what it was on the piece of paper. No, not at all. She basically smiles and puts it in her pocket. Cooper eventually leans closer and says something that would change aviation history. He says, miss, you'd better look at that note. I have a bomb. To which she says, fine, I'll call you back. Like, I'll go on a date with you. I mean, geez, like, you are being so persistent. You're going to blow up this plane if I don't just call you. She basically retreat, retreats to her jump seat, opens a note written in neat capital letters and a felt tip pen. It says, I have a bomb in my briefcase. I will use it if necessary. I want you to sit next to me. You are being hijacked. I mean, that would suck.

[David]

The ultimate. Riz.

[Mark Gagnon]

Dude. Rizz. God. I have a bomb. And you were being hijacked at this very moment. I'm going to use that as an opening line. Hey, you're being hijacked right now. All right? You want to go on a date? She maintains her composure. She sits down next to DB Cooper. Cooper then opens his briefcase just enough for her to take a glimpse at what appeared to be cylindrical red sticks attached to a wire. So apparently, he's trying to bomb the planes like Looney Tunes. I can't believe that she thought that that was actual. Just red sticks with a wire. It's crazy that you could just get on the plane with a bomb and, like, they didn't think to stop this until, like, 2000, right? Like, I feel like there was no TSA. You just go on a plane with anything in your briefcase and they're like, yeah, it's fine.

[David]

Like, I don't I don't want to get ahead, but I don't think it was a bomb. No, he just, like, put, like, cans and, like, wires in there and he's just like, yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

And he was like, hopefully this girl doesn't know what a bomb looks like.

[David]

Yeah, hopefully this girl's retarded.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. He's like, oh, I know what to do. I'll get red tape and write tnt. The briefcase has, like a giant T thing at the top of it.

[David]

It just. It's a piece of tape writing bomb on it.

[Mark Gagnon]

Look, it's a bomb. She's like, prove it. Oh, it looks like a bomb. Alrighty. Don't skip forward, guys, because I am on the road. World's fastest ad read coming at you. I'm going to be in Bangor, Maine, Portland, Maine, Charleston, South Carolina, Atlanta, Stroudsburg, Hoboken, Indianapolis, Buffalo, Raleigh, Poughkeepsie. Portland, Oregon, Fort Worth, Texas, Austin, Texas, Stanford, Philly, Levittown, Chandler, Arizona, San Diego. I'm also going to be adding Toronto, Montreal, as well as Washington, D.C. and a bunch of other dates. You can get all that@the markagnon.com dates are in the description. Also in probably the comments of this episode. Go see me on the road. Come hang out. I'll be hanging out with everyone after the show. Come shake my hand, call me an idiot, whatever you want to do, I will be there. Additionally, I will be doing my one hour of standup comedy. I'm very proud of this hour. I'm really excited to share with you guys, and it would mean the world if everyone could come on out. And what do you wear to a show on the road? That's a great question. You can go to Camp Goods co. That's right. We got merch. We got Camp Merch. We got hats, hoodies, T shirts. A lot of stuff is out of stock. Things have been selling like hotcakes. But we're going to be restocking everything in all the sizes so you can go there right now, get all the merch, get all the coolest clothing in the podcast game. We're going to be updating that site regularly. And if you come out to a show, I'd love to see you sporting some of the threads that we got up online. I'll see you guys there. Let's get back to the show. He basically says this is what he wants. $200,000 in unmarked $20 bills. That's equivalent to about $1.4 million today.

[David]

You said. Did you say 2,000 or 200,000?

[Mark Gagnon]

200,000.

[David]

Okay. Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Why would I say the wrong number? It makes no sense. Well, double check the tape, because if I said that, then I apologize. And he also wants four parachutes, two main chutes and two reverse reserve shoots. I don't know why he wants four. Like, I guess, like, he just wants.

[David]

To be in the air forever.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's like, dude, my dreams are rich and flying around, I mean, that's insane. You need four. I guess he's like, oh, what if they give me, like, a faulty parachute? I don't know.

[David]

If they give you one faulty parachute, what's stopping them from giving you four?

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

So his demeanor is what strikes the crew the most. This is the most unsettling part. No shouting, no waving of weapons, no threats. The flight attendant, Tina Mucklow, even said that Cooper spoke softly when ordering a bourbon and soda, and he paid for it, which makes sense.

[David]

I mean, he has the money now, right?

[Mark Gagnon]

Like, he's about to get the cash. He also asked if he could leave a tip, but he was denied because she said it was against policy for flight attendants to take money from passengers.

[David]

Oh, DB Cooper has great taste.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Tina Mucklow, shout out to. Oh, she's on X. Oh, hold on. DM her immediately and get her on the pod. I mean, that's crazy.

[David]

That would be sick.

[Mark Gagnon]

So this guy's robbing a plane, meantime, he's, like, ordering a bourbon, he's chilling, and, yeah, it's just kind of like a little transaction. So Schaffner, the main flight attendant that's sitting next to DB Cooper, is then told by DB Cooper that he demands access to the cockpit. The pilots contacted air traffic control, who then alerted authorities. And as the plane circles the Puget Sound. Is that how you pronounce it?

[David]

I don't know what that is.

[Mark Gagnon]

It's like the little, you know, piece of land over Seattle, I believe, but I don't know. Can we get a picture of the Puget Sound? I also don't know if that's how you pronounce it. I think it is, though. FBI agents and police in Seattle scrambled to meet Cooper's demands during the tense waiting period. Flight attendant Tina Mucklove replaced Schaffner as Cooper's liaison. Can we? We also should definitely get a picture of Schaeffner up here, just to see.

[David]

Just to see.

[Mark Gagnon]

Just to know what's going on right now.

[David]

I'm envisioning D.B. cooper as, like, James Bond, like Sean Connery.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hold on. Hit that pronunciation one time. Puget Sound The Puget Sound. Puget Sound. That's what I said.

[David]

Yeah, exactly Right.

[Mark Gagnon]

Double shifted the tape. And if I didn't say it that way, I apologize.

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

So, yeah, let's get a. Get a picture of Shaffner up there. So, basically, for two hours, Mucklow sits next to Cooper in the passenger cabin while the plane circles the airport. She would later describe him as courteous, thoughtful throughout the ordeal. I mean, why?

[David]

Like, you kind of have to be. I mean, like, if you're making these insane demands and you're threatening them, if you're acting like Charles Manson, just, like, all Looney Tuney. Yeah, Like, I doubt they're gonna capitulate.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, I guess also, if you're like, yo, I have a bomb. You don't really need to be acting crazy. Which is actually a good lesson if there's a guy acting crazy on a plane, probably doesn't have a bomb. Mucklow observed him chain smoking Raleigh cigarettes and answered his various questions about the aircraft, questions that revealed his interest in specifical technical details about the plane. I mean, it's this guy's like, I get why there's so much fascination around him now. People root.

[David]

He's an easy character to root for.

[Mark Gagnon]

The most G thing in the world. You're sit plane next to this cute flight attendant, ripping darts, drinking bourbon.

[David]

Bourbon, yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Got a bomb in the suitcase. So while all of this is going on, people on the ground are scrambling. They're trying to figure out, okay, how do we get 200,000? So the northwest Orient president authorizes the payment immediately. The company's insurance would then cover it, and passenger safety is obviously, you know, the priority. Yeah, 36 people got to protect them. So, I mean, I guess I don't know how you get insurance for hijacking. Like, that's in the insurance policy. They're like, yeah, just in case we ever get hijacked, we're gonna need cash. So the bank employees quickly gathered 10,000 unmarked bills, many with serial numbers beginning with the letter L, from the Federal Reserve bank of San Francisco. The FBI photographed each bill before placing them in the knapsack. Meanwhile, authorities collected four parachutes from a local skydiving school and the Air Force base nearby, which, like, it's just insane that this is, like, someone's job.

[David]

How long did this take?

[Mark Gagnon]

Two hours that they're flying around, and so that's insane. Two hours that, like, some intern wakes up and they're like, hey, go to this skydiving school. Get a parachute. If they ask why, just be like, yes, they're being hijacked. Just explain what's going on.

[David]

How do they just comply with all this?

[Mark Gagnon]

Because they're like, yo, this guy's gonna explode the plane. He's gonna bomb it.

[David]

Yeah, but that wouldn't be procedure now.

[Mark Gagnon]

No, probably not.

[David]

No.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now we don't negotiate with terrorists, so. 5:39pm, More than two hours after being notified of the hijacking, Flight 305 lands at Seattle Tacoma International. Cooper instructs the pilots to go to a remote, well lit area of the tarmac and darken the cabin to prevent any potential police snipers from targeting him. But after circling for hours, the aircraft slow on fuel. So Cooper demands a full refuel before takeoff. Which is crazy. They're already on the ground and there's nothing that they can do. So when the first fuel truck arrives, he refused it until he had visual confirmation it wasn't a law enforcement decoy. Finally, the knapsack of money and the parachutes are delivered to the aircraft. Cooper then allowed all 36 passengers, flight attendant Schaffner, senior flight attendant Alice Hancock, to then leave. He keeps the remaining flight crew on board. William Scott, William Rataz, Ratazic, and then the flight engineer H E. Anderson, as well as the flight attendant Tina Mucklow. While on the ground in Seattle, Cooper outlined the phase of his plan, the next steps. He instructs the flight crew to go to Mexico City with a potential refueling stop in Reno. His then flight specifications were extremely detailed. Maintain an altitude of 10,000ft, which again, the standard is like 15 to 20,000. Keep the landing gear down throughout the flight. Set flaps at 15°, 15°. Maintain a cabin speed of under 200 knots, slower than the normal cruising speed. And the cabin has to remain unpressurized. So at this point they're like, oh, he's definitely going to jump out. Which I don't know at this point I'd be like, okay, let's do all this. Scramble fighter jets. And then the second he drops out, we just go full Tetris on his ass and just try to. I know. Space invaders. Go space invaders. And just try to like blast him, right? Yeah, like duck hunting season. Like, I don't know why that's not the next step. Again, these aren't arbitrary, Right. Each requirement revealed Cooper's, you know, understanding of aviation and also his ultimate plan. The specific altitude would keep the plane low enough to prevent the need for oxygen mass, but high enough to clear the mountain range. The landing gear and flaps would be set low enough so that the speed would then make his parachute jump more survivable, and the unpressurized cabin would ensure that the rear stairway could be open during the flight without causing explosive decompression. So pretty well thought out.

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

The crew then realized that they were dealing with someone who possessed detailed knowledge of the 727's capabilities and that this wasn't some type of amateur operation. So now by 7:40pm Darkness has fully descended over the Pacific Northwest. Flight 305 takes off from Seattle with its crew of four and the lone hijacker.

[David]

Where are they headed to?

[Mark Gagnon]

Technically, they have a re restop in Reno if they need it. But they're going to Mexico City.

[David]

Hell yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Kind of sick, right?

[David]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

200,000. You just jump out south of the border.

[David]

Dollar goes a long way there, right?

[Mark Gagnon]

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Free trial at greenlight.com Spotify greenlight.com Spotify 1.4 mil God damn. Crazy. So what does the American government do? They deploy the fighter jets, the F106 from McChord Air Force Base to follow and maintain a distance to avoid detection. A third jet trailed far behind with a heat sensing camera ready to track any unusual activity. Cooper had flight attendant Mucklow show him how to operate the stairs. This is a unique feature of the 727 that could be lowered during the flight from inside the cabin. The rear stairwell was designed for passengers boarding at smaller airports without jet bridges. But Cooper clearly had other plans. As the aircraft heads south into the Stormy night. Cooper ordered the crew to remain in the cockpit with the door closed. So now this guy that's just been, like, chugging bourbons and ripping darts all day is now sitting in an empty plane with 200,000 in cash, four parachutes, and he's just chilling there with his sunglasses on. The last image that Mucklow had of Cooper was him sitting calmly in his seat, money, money beside him, unbothered by what's going on. Just completely chill. The door closes, and Cooper's now alone in the cabin as they continue through a violent storm. And what happens next is maybe the most insane getaway to ever happen ever. That leads to the FBI's longest manhunt and changes aviation security forever. The 727 is now heading south, and here's what he does. The crew unseals the cockpit as Cooper had ordered, continuing flying the precise flight path that he had demanded. The plane maintained. 10,000ft. Altitude flapped down to 15 degrees, the exact conditions that he needs. In the passenger cabin, he's just chilling. The only people who could possibly see what was going on are the pilots in the military jet. Trailing at a distance. But the darkness of the storm makes tracking almost impossible. Then 8pm comes around. 20 minutes after takeoff from Seattle. The cockpit crew notices something strange. A warning light goes off, indicating that the stairs have been deployed. The duh. The guy's up there with four parachutes. Like, wait, is he trying to jump out? He's got parachute. What the hell? So with the first officer, William Ratazic later recalls thinking, he's got the stairs down. Okay, that seems pretty obvious. You see a giant light come on the stairs down. He's like, I feel like the stairs. The pilot communicates this development to air traffic control, but then continue their assigned instructions. Thirteen minutes later, the crew felt a sudden upward movement in the tail section. Sounds like us on a Thursday night. Motion consistent with the weight of a person suddenly departing the airplane. Almost simultaneously, they noticed a change in cabin pressure, suggesting that the door had been open. Somewhere over the densely forested area of southwestern Washington state, between the towns of Castle Rock and Ariel, near the Lewis River, Cooper makes a jump. According to the flight engineer, we felt a bump. We thought that was it. We couldn't see anything. It was pitch black. The conditions Cooper faced upon exiting the aircraft were extraordinarily harsh. Temperature at 10,000 degrees is about 7 degrees Fahrenheit. 10,000ft is 7 degrees Fahrenheit. Not accountable for a wind chill and also freezing rain. The sustained winds of 170 miles an hour. The night is moonless and overcast, creating basically no visibility. He jumps into the stone, the storm in a business suit, loafers and a raincoat. He takes with him two crucial items, right? $200,000 in ransom money and a parachute. I mean, how funny would be if he forgot the ransom money. He's, like, so busy with all this, and he jumps out. He's like, wait. Checks his pockets. I mean, that would. It would still be a sick story, right? Imagine they go out there, they just see cash on the seat, and they're like, what the hell? This idiot. But no, he takes with him. And he takes. He had a few different parachutes available to him. The civilian reserve parachute and also the military issued one. What he does is he takes the civilian one and not the military one. And this potentially saves his life, as investigators later discovered that the military chute was a training model that had been sewn shut and couldn't be deployed. That's wild. They tried to set up my boy.

[David]

You think I was natural?

[Mark Gagnon]

I'm assuming definitely intentional. That they're like, yeah, like, let's give him a military parachute. Sew a shot.

[David]

Yeah, but you want the money back. You don't want him to die.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, you do.

[David]

What do you mean you don't want him to die? Why you want the money?

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, look, the you. The money's gone. 200,000. Insurance covered it. Bang.

[David]

So then you would want him. The last question.

[Mark Gagnon]

Sure. Maybe you want to question them, be like, yo, what is the deal with this? But also, I just assume you want, you know, punishment for the guy that takes the money.

[David]

It's the coolest way to die, arguably, and you don't want to give him that.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, that is a good point. So who knows whether Cooper recognized this or just, you know, picked correct, Right. Deal or no deal style. And the money, it said, was secured to his body using cords fashioned from the parachute's reserve lines, a technique that showed some knowledge of parachute equipment. When searching the plane, police discovered that Cooper left behind his tie, his mother of pearl tie clip, and two remaining parachutes. We need to figure out where that tie and tie clip is, because if we can bid on that, that would be the sickest thing in the world.

[David]

I'm sure that's. I'm sure that's hung up somewhere in some museum or. I don't know.

[Mark Gagnon]

No, there's for sure.

[David]

Like, you think they auctioned. The FBI auctioned it off?

[Mark Gagnon]

No, I'm sure some FBI agent wears it to, like, Christmas parties and.

[David]

Oh, that's actually such a six.

[Mark Gagnon]

It'd be so crazy. Like, yeah, this tie. You ever seen this before? Of course not, idiot. So this then becomes used as a potential DNA testing, which at this time, DNA was not where it is now. So I don't even know if they knew that, but I wonder if.

[David]

Oh yeah, it's 1971. They don't know shit.

[Mark Gagnon]

But now if they still have it.

[David]

OJ's case in the 90s was like the first time they were using like DNA testing as like factual evidence. Sure, but 1971.

[Mark Gagnon]

Wait, where is the tie? Where is this tie right now? Wait, it's a clip on.

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, that's so funny. I didn't realize that he looks so.

[David]

Suave, but it's just.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, I mean, that's hilarious that he had a clip on. Wow. Okay, so after his legendary disappearance, they left it on the seat. We got to figure out where it is today, though. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I want to talk to you about the most discreet, coolest way to curb your nicotine cravings. And that's right here with Zipix. You've probably seen me chomping on a couple of these toothpicks during the episodes of this podcast. I like to use a little bit of nicotine when I'm locking in on a long term conversation with someone, trying to figure out the, you know, deep meanings of life and aliens or even consciousness. I also like it when I'm trying to write. Sometimes right before I go on stage, I find that it just gives me a little bit more of a locked in feeling. I can focus for a little bit longer. There's even been some studies to show that nicotine has improved aspects of fine motor skills, attention, and auditory processing and memory. So if you're trying to lock in for a little project you have, you just need a little boost. A little bit of nicotine is great. And these are great if you're trying to quit smoking too. If you don't want to fill your lungs up with smoke, but you still like the little nicotine feel, they have a bunch of great flavors. They also have 2 milligram and 3 milligram options. Zipix toothpicks are great for flights, little sporting event, or even just hanging out with the boys, having a couple drinks. Zipix has helped hundreds of thousands of customers get their nicotine fix without needing to inhale smoke or vapes or any of that stuff. So if you're interested, go to zipix that Z I, P p I x toothpicks.com and the listeners of this program will get 10 off their first order by using the promo code Gagnon. That's right. G, A, G, N o n. Get 10 off. I also should let you know that you have to be 21 years old or older to order. Also, nicotine is an addictive chemical, so please use it wisely. Only as much as you need. Now let's get back to the show. The terrain below Cooper is the worst possible place you could pick for a parachute landing. Dense forest, mountains, ravines and rivers. After feeling the bump, the flight continued towards Reno with the crew following Cooper's instructions. The pilots were uncertain if he was even still on board or if he had jumped as they had ordered. Been ordered to remain in the cockpit. It wasn't until they landed at Reno that they confirmed that he was gone at 10:15. Upon landing, FBI agents immediately surround the aircraft. And when they enter, nothing in there. The money and Cooper were gone except for his tie left on the seat. I mean, Baller, everything was pretty well.

[David]

Thought out except the weather.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, but I don't know if you.

[David]

Can also like the logistics of, like, what the weather and the wind would be like at whatever altitude. What was it, 170 mile an hour winds? It's 7 degrees up there. Not accounting for wind chill. And he's just wearing a suit with loafers and goggles.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[David]

I mean, I didn't know. I knew. I thought I knew the story pretty well. I didn't know those details.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's dead for sure. Dead for sure. Let's find out. The FBI now has to figure out where he's at. The search area is enormous. Anywhere between the flight path from Seattle to Reno. And this covers approximately 196 miles of some of the most rugged terrain in the country. So the exact location of his exit couldn't be determined with precision. And the special agent Ralph Himmelsbach, who would be the lead of the investigation for many years, called it a search area problem of incredible dimensions. Nevertheless, the bureau launches what would become one of the most extensive manhunts in history. Within hours, the FBI establishes Operation Norjak Northwest Hijacking. By the next day, the search effort includes 800 military personnel, multiple aircrafts, helicopters, local law enforcement, and the National Guard. The initial search is faced, you know, faces a lot of obstacles. Weather had deteriorated further overnight. Visibility remains poor, and the dense forest basically obscures any view of the ground below, which at, at this point you're like, maybe it's the most genius thing ever, right?

[David]

Like, yeah, now I understand why he wanted them to stay in the cockpit.

[Mark Gagnon]

Stay in the cockpit and then you jump out at some point, and then if you can figure out, I bet you. Here's my thing so far. He has such a clear story. Like, he has such clear. He knows exactly what he's doing.

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

I bet you he has a clearing that he lined and he knows I'm going directly over this flight path and there's a little safe house or something that I can go into. Because my thing is, if he's dead, they would have just discovered, oh, here. His remains.

[David]

Oddly enough, this. This plan is very well thought out. But I bet you part of the plan was like, once I get on the ground, I'll have $200,000 in cash. Like, I'll figure it out.

[Mark Gagnon]

I'll do something.

[David]

But if he's in the middle of.

[Mark Gagnon]

The forest, I bet you he knows that there's a clearing. I bet you he knows, like, oh, there's a little pocket that I can land into. I'm assuming he's like, former military.

[David]

No, I bet you, like, the plan was perfectly thought out until he jumps off the plane.

[Mark Gagnon]

Then it's like, you think he's not going to plan out that part? He knows the degrees to put the flaps on. He knows to keep the. The wheels down.

[David]

Yeah, I mean, how well can you plan, like, where exactly you're gonna land?

[Mark Gagnon]

Sure, you can't plan that exactly, of course, but you can get a general idea. And then if you could land in the forest, then you're free and clear, you're good, they can't find you. There's no way. So then you can coordinate with, like, an escape guy or, like some type of driver. Be like, hey, meet me out here with an atv.

[David]

Meet me roughly from anywhere from Portland to Utah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, just stay in the region of, you know, Portland of Mexico City, and then just pick me up. So despite the massive effort, no physical evidence is found in the days and weeks following the hijacking. No parachute, no money, no clothing, no body, nothing. And by early December, snowfall covers the entire search area, bringing the ground search to a halt. But the FBI continued to pursue leads. They're conducting interviews, but the physical evidence that they needed remains unfound. So here's what they know about him. White dude, probably 5, 10 to 6 foot. You know, those. Those height ranges are difficult to really narrow down on. You know, what's the difference between five, ten and six foot, right, David? Fuck you There is no difference. That's my point. Okay. Somewhere between 170, 180 pounds. He's probably on a cut, mid-40s. He's probably fasting. He's probably fasted for days before this. It has immense cognitive benefits. If anyone's interested, Mark, at the time.

[David]

Of recording, how long have you been fasting?

[Mark Gagnon]

42 hours.

[David]

That's insane.

[Mark Gagnon]

He has short cut hair, dressed in a black or dark brown business suit, white shirt and a black tie. No longer spoke in a calm, polite tone. Described as a Northwestern accent. So he's probably just a lib. He's probably a huge lib, right?

[David]

What's a Northwestern accent?

[Mark Gagnon]

Just like, just Trump. Like he's just like a narcissist. Like, that's probably what he was saying the whole time. You're just like, like, ew.

[David]

Can you just sit down next to me?

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, just sit.

[David]

Oh my God.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Like why? Oh, you think I'm just like a toxic male? No, I hate white men. That's probably what he was saying. Who does he look like?

[David]

He looks like someone.

[Mark Gagnon]

He looks like, like Miles with a chin. He's not even here. Can't do that, by the way. Fuck Miles. You can drop one of those in the chat, please. An interesting thing about the case emerges early in the investigation. The press initially reported the hijacker's name as DB Cooper rather than Dan Cooper, the name that had actually been used to purchase the ticket. This error was never corrected. Never, never was changed. There is no such thing as DB Cooper. It's Dan Cooper.

[David]

I wonder how much of the fandom he's received is based off of his name being DB Cooper. Because DB sounds sick. If it was Dan Cooper, people would be like, whatever.

[Mark Gagnon]

Is there another famous DB?

[David]

My brother in law, I call him DB. His name's David Byner.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's pretty cool.

[David]

DB.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, DB's sick. There must be a famous, like, I don't know, like a basketball player or some shit. Wait, why, why is that? It's D, E, E, B E, D. First name. Okay. Yeah, it looks like he's maybe the only db. Hold on. Click that show more. Oh, DB Sweeney, well known American actor. And then DB Woodside. Oh, that's an all time name.

[David]

DB Woodside.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's a sick name, dude. I shouldn't name my kid db? I'm gonna have another one. So. That's a good point. Here's my daughter, db. As the investigation continues, the FBI begins to focus on Cooper's knowledge and expertise and several aspects of the hijacking suggest that this was not amateur. Right. He knows everything about the 727. He has super specific flight requirements, the knowledge of the parachutes and the selection of the functional reserve. Shoot. Rather than the military one. His awareness of the Seattle Tacoma airport and their procedures of aircraft refueling, and then also his calm demeanor throughout the hijacking so far. I'm like, look, this guy's former, like, probably military.

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Worked in aviation in some capacity. Like, so. So many different, you know, like, pilots and captains were former, like, air force. So I bet you, like, that would be. My initial thing is, like, this guy definitely knows what he's doing. Worked in aviation in some capacity and then created this plan and be like, oh, there's no safeguards.

[David]

Mid-40s, 1971. He would have fought in the Korean war.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Pacific theater. And then knows how to, you know, jump out. And that's why he probably wanted to go on the orient flight. He's like, I'm used to this. You know what I mean? He's like, he's been fighting Koreans for the last five years.

[David]

1950 to 1963. 53, yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. So he was definitely deployed in Korea.

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

My. My suspicion, I don't know. But by 1972, the FBI had interviewed hundreds of potential suspects, processed thousands of tips. Over time, they would investigate 800 serious suspects, including detailed background checks and in person interviews. But none would be definitively identified as Cooper. I wonder if it's an inside job. I bet, like, look into the pilots. I'm telling you, look into the pilots. Like, you don't think one of the pilots would be like, yo, come on the plane. Demand the money. There's been hijackings like this before. This happened where, like, they got the money and then.

[David]

Oh, that makes sense. Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

You know, like, it blows up or like, so there's some type of, like, issue. Some of the people, again, these hijackings would get the ransom money, and then they would just dip and they get caught later.

[David]

Yeah. But if it was an inside job with the pilot, don't you think they would have been like, hey, I'll get you to Mexico City. Worry, like, hey, say we're going to Utah, wink, wink, and then we'll go to.

[Mark Gagnon]

But then you get down to Mexico. Like, again, that's the original plan with a refueling in Reno. But you get to Mexico, then what? You're just flying out in Mexico, or they're like, oh, you're going to be leaving in daytime. There's so many different issues Unless if he's from the area and they're like, hey, we know how to survive out in the wilderness. Who would know how to do that? Former military.

[David]

Okay.

[Mark Gagnon]

So initially, survival experts start to question whether or not he could even survive the jump. So they bring in a bunch of survival experts, parachuting professionals, and they consult their opinions, and there are many of them. People suggest that the freezing temperatures would have caused hypothermia for someone dressed like Cooper. Yeah, not only through the air, but then also as he lands on the ground. We need to look at. Maybe he was wearing something under a suit.

[David]

Wetsuit.

[Mark Gagnon]

He might have had a wetsuit on. Right. He could have, like, been wearing something. There's also powerful winds, and a lot of the parachuting experts that they talked to said it would be basically impossible to land in the winds. Definitely not able to land in an area that you wanted to land in.

[David]

And then he died. Let's just say. Let's cut the video. He died.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's going into the dense forest at night, which would result in probably a bunch of injuries. And who knows if he had navigation tools to see where he was going.

[David]

He didn't. I'm going to be the biggest hater the rest of the episode. I'm in a bad mood.

[Mark Gagnon]

Just because it's cold.

[David]

It's so fucking cold.

[Mark Gagnon]

Are you fasting right now? Why are you so mad? They also say that Cooper has no survival equipment. I don't know about that.

[David]

What do you think? What do you think? What survival equipment did he have on him?

[Mark Gagnon]

He has a suitcase full of cartoon dynamite. Who knows what that could have actually been? Maybe it was a Swiss army knife and a can of tuna. That's all you need. On the other hand, some people note that the altitude being less than 10,000ft would have been less time for free fall. The slowed aircraft speed and the shock hitting the airstream would have potentially, you know, given him a chance at viability. And the Columbia river and Highway I5 are relatively close to the jump area, providing potential escape routes. He calls up his buddy, yo, Tom Sawyer. Meet me on the river in a raft. I'll jump on, take the river out. Oh, I'll just get to the highway and then pick me up in a car, in a van. I'll throw all the shit in and we just go down to Mexico.

[David]

He died.

[Mark Gagnon]

Cooper's meticulous planning suggests that he might have been prepared for conditions in ways that we don't know about. To this day, it is the only unsolved Commercial airline hijacking in American history. What's the.

[David]

No, he died.

[Mark Gagnon]

Oh, I thought you were going to say it's not the only unsolved commercial hijacking. That's because George Bush never faced the consequences for what he did to the American public. Despite one of the most intense manhunts ever launched, the FBI was outsmarted by a man who vanished without a trace.

[David]

Outsmarted, he died. They were not outsmarted.

[Mark Gagnon]

What about all the people that claim to have been DB Cooper?

[David]

Yeah, that makes their lives interesting.

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, let's look into some of the claims, shall we? Yeah, let's just also point out the prior to his capture, the American public loved him. There was a time of growing anti establishment sentiment and Americans viewed Cooper not as, you know, just some criminal, but a daring anti hero that pulled off the perfect crime against the system.

[David]

Regular old Luigi Mangioni type.

[Mark Gagnon]

You know what I mean? He was. I mean, basically, he's Luigi Maggioni. He's like, I'm going to take money from a insurance company. Right? Like, this guy might just be just a. Right. I'm telling you, he's a socialist.

[David]

How cool would it be if Luigi was still on the run?

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, that would be wild.

[David]

Like, because he got caught. Like, this happened on a Tuesday. He got caught like Thursday or Friday also.

[Mark Gagnon]

You think he did it? Look at the eyebrows. Can you pull up the eyebrows of the guy that's at the hostel? Eyebrows. Luigi Mangione and then hostel.

[David]

Is there any way he gets out?

[Mark Gagnon]

I think so.

[David]

With these high profile cases, there's so much. What's the word I'm looking for?

[Mark Gagnon]

Like, steaks.

[David]

Not stakes. Like the court of public opinion. Like, it's such a. It's such a hot story that people can't help if you feel.

[Mark Gagnon]

This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. It's tax season and we're all a.

[David]

Bit tired of numbers, but here's one you need to hear.

[Mark Gagnon]

$16.5 billion. That's how much the IRS flagged for possible identity fraud last year. Now, here's a good number. 100 million. That's how many data points LifeLock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed. Save up to 40% your first [e-mail] podcast terms apply. Like.

[David]

Like have emotional stake in it. So, like, it's like, it can be characterized as like a mistrial. God, he's so hot.

[Mark Gagnon]

Look at his eyebrows. And then look at the eyebrows of this person.

[David]

Zoom in.

[Mark Gagnon]

Go up.

[David]

Oh, yeah, that's that.

[Mark Gagnon]

Those pictures were taken, what, like, two weeks apart? I don't know. I'm just. I'm reserving. I'm reserving my. My thoughts until we see more evidence this happened.

[David]

I remember I went. I was in that area the day it happened, But I like it. I gave him an alibi. Now, this happened in, like, early December. Like, imagine we're recording this April 11th, like, four months, and we're like, yo, this would be sick. Yeah, he got caught in the lamest way, too.

[Mark Gagnon]

You. Do you also believe that McDonald's story.

[David]

What is it?

[Mark Gagnon]

That he's in McDonald's in Pennsylvania, and then some worker there is like, you look like the guy that killed a CEO.

[David]

Dude, I love Eric Adams so much.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, what a legend. What a legend.

[David]

He perf. Walked him. No, it wasn't the McDonald's worker. It was, like, the people also on the bus. They took a stop, I'm assuming, to, like, at a gas station. There's McDonald's attached to it, and the people are like, hey, isn't that.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then he's just sitting there the whole time to get arrested.

[David]

How confident can you be that you see, like, maybe. Let's say you're. You're so enthralled in the case that you see, like, an alleged photo of the guy in the hostel, and you only see his nose, eyes, and eyebrows. You can't be like, oh, that's Luigi. Let's call the cops. Yeah, I don't believe that.

[Mark Gagnon]

I think what happened. If he is, in fact, the person that did it, which, again, I'm going to reserve opinion on if it is him. I'm assuming that the government just, like, called up the, you know, like, at T& was like, whose cell phone was at this location at this time? They illegally tracked him. And then they can't illegally track him because of, you know, it's against.

[David]

You know, it's not the Patriot Act. Does that allow that?

[Mark Gagnon]

I don't know if it would allow something to that extent. So I'm assuming that they illegally track him, and then they put up the story and they go, hey, yeah, some guy saw who it was.

[David]

Chris says, can, you know, the photo to the right of him in the taxi. Bloodshot eyes. Yeah, yeah, up, up, up. Yeah, that one. Zoom in. Have you ever been in a taxi and have ever had just, like, done that? Like, put your head through the window and say something?

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, if you're about to murder someone, you'd be like, man, I hope I'm not on camera. Oops. Like, how great would it be if you got pulled into the cash cab? He just jumps. Jumps into a cab. Ben B. Is like. And Luigi's like, oh, fuck, this is.

[David]

Such a funny sketch.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's like, all right, we're going to be answering some trivia. Which animal can't walk down the stairs? He's just sitting there like, what is that? Cow?

[David]

Really?

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, I think so. I don't know. I just kind of made that up.

[David]

So the Joe Biden. What? So what? So people were obsessed with D.B.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yes.

[David]

Okay.

[Mark Gagnon]

Because he was like, he's an anti hero. No one got hurt, he made off with the money. I mean, I like the guy.

[David]

Everyone. There's no one that hates D.B. cooper.

[Mark Gagnon]

It's a. It's a victimless crime.

[David]

Well, one who killed himself, he.

[Mark Gagnon]

Okay, I don't think that's the case. Okay, the mystery gets even crazier. All right, Nearly a decade after his leap, the case is, like, dead in the water. No one knows what's going on. Maybe, like, D.B. cooper. The initial search had yield yielded nothing. There's no parachute, there's no evidence, there's no body. They don't know if he's dead or alive. You would think if he just died. What, like he never deployed the parachute and it just went head first in the ground like a fucking.

[David]

No, it's possible. Like, the parachute didn't deploy well enough and he was going down at such immense speed. He gets cotton, trees his body. Like, if you descend onto earth at that speed, your body just explodes.

[Mark Gagnon]

Not necessarily. There's stories of women that have. There's a one woman specifically. Can you look this up? The world's longest free fall.

[David]

Give me that water, please.

[Mark Gagnon]

The world's longest freefall. There's a woman that survived a plane crash, landed in trees, no parachute, from, like, 20,000ft. Serbian flight attendant who survived the highest fall without a parachute. 33, 000ft.

[David]

What did DB jump out of? No, no, it doesn't matter. Yeah, but she had the plane as, like, a buffer.

[Mark Gagnon]

She's not in the plane when it crashes. Where was she? Like, she got sucked out. Yeah, for real. She's going between Stockholm and Belgrade and the plane explodes into three pieces. Pieces. The explosion kills everyone except the flight attendant. And, yeah, she ends up falling. She's 23 years old. Keep going down.

[David]

Bad.

[Mark Gagnon]

As the cabin depressurizes, the passengers on their flight crew are believed to have been sucked out of the plane of freezing temperatures. Falling to their desk. She survives as being pinned down by the food cart and the tail end of the aircraft's main body.

[David]

All right, so she was in the plane. Nice. Okay.

[Mark Gagnon]

The fuselage separates. Okay. And the crash lands in the thick snow. And that's potentially what saved her life. All right, so she's in the wreckage. I thought she flew out.

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Regardless, there's no evidence of this guy. There's no body, there's no parachute in the trees. Then, in February 1978, the first physical evidence since the hijacking emerges. A hunter stumbles upon a weathered placard in a remote wooded area near Castle Rock, Washington. But it's not just a regular placard. It was a specific instruction card detailing the operations of the aft stairs of the Boeing 727.

[David]

Oh, bullshit.

[Mark Gagnon]

Investigators confirmed it had come from the exact aircraft that he had hijacked six years earlier. And this discovery was significant because it helped narrow down his likely exit point from the aircraft.

[David]

So seven years after this happened.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[David]

A placard. So I'm assuming like a note card.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Like, was it laminated? Something like that, sure.

[David]

Okay. Seven years in the Pacific Northwest, just in the forest where it rains constantly. There's a ton of moss, there's dirt, it could be mud. Just perfectly there.

[Mark Gagnon]

It's frozen.

[David]

Frozen.

[Mark Gagnon]

We find bodies of people in bogs.

[David]

It goes through seven summers.

[Mark Gagnon]

Okay, sure. Mild summers, temperate, beautiful.

[David]

Oh, God. This person.

[Mark Gagnon]

Oh, it's laminated. We found Pompeii. It's been under the fucking rubble for thousands of years.

[David]

Yeah. But at least it's preserved. Under.

[Mark Gagnon]

Who knows where this was. This is preserved. You think this was planted?

[David]

Yeah, I think this person. Whatever.

[Mark Gagnon]

Continue.

[David]

Yeah, there. There is. I. I know what we're gonna get to. And that's more. That's more concrete evidence of what happened. But I don't believe that the placard survives seven years in the forest intact.

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, how about this? 1980, there's an eight year old Brian Ingram. He's on vacation with his family on the Columbia river. Okay. While digging a fire pit, Brian uncovers three packets of deteriorating 20 bills bound together with rubber bands.

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

This kid's like, oh, man, that's awesome. Okay. The money's in poor condition. Water damage, partially decomposed, but still recognizable.

[David]

Say that again.

[Mark Gagnon]

The money's water damaged. Water damaged and partially decomposed.

[David]

Awesome.

[Mark Gagnon]

What does that prove?

[David]

The.

[Mark Gagnon]

The. It's a placard, bro. It's like, what is it? You've never been on an airplane. You open up the little back flap and Then you pull out of, like, the safety stuff, and it's all laminated and nice.

[David]

Yeah, no, I get what it is, but I'm saying, like, it has to be damaged. Like, it's damaged, but you can. How can you. Like, eight years later, you see, like, the perfect instructions. Whatever.

[Mark Gagnon]

It's not perfect. It's deteriorated. Sure. Okay. That wasn't included in the one line that I read about this. All right, I'm sure you can. It's. It's.

[David]

Who does your research?

[Mark Gagnon]

This. My friend Zach.

[David]

Fire him.

[Mark Gagnon]

What, because he didn't put deteriorated on there?

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

So here's what the parents do. This part is slightly unbelievable to me. They contact the authorities after finding a bunch of money. Their son finds, like, I don't know, a few thousand dollars and 5,800. Yeah, five, eight hundred dollars. A small fraction of the 2,000 that, you know.

[David]

You said it again. There you go. Ooh.

[Mark Gagnon]

We're going to edit that out. The serial numbers match those recorded by the FBI before the money was delivered to Cooper.

[David]

He's dead. Thank you.

[Mark Gagnon]

The discovery made national headlines and rekindled public interest in the case. If he's dead, why is there not more money, Ron?

[David]

Because it's not all going to fall in one spot.

[Mark Gagnon]

The discovery, rather than solving the mystery, only makes it deeper. The location where the money was found created a geographical problem for the investigators. The place where the Money's found is 20 miles downstream of Cooper's estimated jump zone. How did the money travel that distance? Did it fall out of a plane at free fall speeds in a storm? Who knows?

[David]

If you put, like, a little. Imagine dropping a dollar bill outside of a plane in the wind. Why doesn't it just fall down? Like, directly down?

[Mark Gagnon]

Is this a riddle? It's not a riddle.

[David]

It's a rhetorical question. Actually, not rhetorical. I want an answer.

[Mark Gagnon]

How does it fall straight down?

[David]

Yeah, no, why doesn't it fall straight down?

[Mark Gagnon]

I don't know. Air resistance? A storm.

[David]

Exactly. Wind. Of course it's not going to fall in the same spot.

[Mark Gagnon]

It's wadded up. You've just never seen cash in that quantity. Okay, that's probably what it is. A little broke boy. FBI agents and forensic experts then start to examine the bills. The money packets were still bundled together with the original rubber bands, which seems odd. If the money had been carried by river currents, wouldn't the rubber band have been deteriorated? The rubber bands appeared to have remained intact despite years of exposure to water and sand. The bills were then discovered stacked together in Their original sequence, they hadn't been shuffled or separated. I guess it is possible that part of it flew off his body. The location of the find was on a sandy bank that was regularly submerged during the river's spring floods. The bills were buried several inches deep in the sand that geological experts determined had been deposited there after 1974. This suggested that the money had arrived at the location at least three years after the hijacking.

[David]

What?

[Mark Gagnon]

Oh, that makes no sense.

[David]

Yeah, I don't get that.

[Mark Gagnon]

I guess the thought is that it's possible that he was still out there.

[David]

And that he just left it at this location for a rainy day.

[Mark Gagnon]

Perhaps. FBI goes all out on the search area. Forensic geologists were brought to analyze the sand layers. They even ran simulations to figure out how the money could have drifted downstream, but nothing turned up. No body, no trace of D.B.

[David]

Cooper.

[Mark Gagnon]

This guy, Special Agent Ralph Himmelsbach, who had been investigating the case since the beginning, hypothesized that Cooper had probably died on the jump. What? Oh, you'd think the guy whose job it is to go out in the woods every single day and search for this guy is like, oh, no, he's dead. We can just pack it in.

[David]

Yeah, I would be so pissed if I was on, like, this investigating team. She'd be like, hey, look in the forest, and you may find, like, a wad of cash.

[Mark Gagnon]

He says that, you know, potentially his body decomposed, the parachute had broken up, and most of the money had disintegrated or washed out to sea, with only a few of these packets becoming lodged in the riverbank.

[David]

What's this guy's name?

[Mark Gagnon]

Ralph Himmelsbach.

[David]

Immortalize him. Give him the. He's dead. But, like, I hope he got a raise. I hope he's in charge of everything.

[Mark Gagnon]

Perhaps he survived the jump and some of the money had been, you know, taken off of him during the escape. Maybe he even intentionally buried some of it as a backup stash. Despite the FBI's best efforts, Brian Ingram's discovery yielded, you know, little useful evidence. There was no way to actually get DNA from it. It had been handled by too many people before it was recognized as evidence. And the sand and water had washed away any other trace of evidence that maybe had been there. One of the craziest aspects was that none of the remaining 9,710 marked bills from the ransom had ever been surfaced in circulation. FBI had distributed the serial numbers to banks, businesses and law enforcement around the world. Financial institutions were on alert to flag any of these bills if they had appeared in circulation. Yet Decades passed without a single one of them being detected. Okay, nice.

[David]

Thanks, everyone, for your time. This has been another episode of.

[Mark Gagnon]

After years passed, the FBI continued to apply new forensic technologies to the limited evidence that they had. In the early 2000s. They extracted a partial DNA profile from Cooper's clip on Tie Sick. The DNA sample, while incomplete, allowed them to rule out some of the suspects, but wasn't comprehensive enough. FBI agents requested that the Cooper case materials be examined for fingerprints. Using new technology, they discovered that the partially undetected fingerprints on one of the hijacking notes. However, this fingerprint didn't match anything in the FBI's database. The FBI officials suspended active investigations in 2016, citing the need to focus resources on more current threats. While the case was never officially closed, the Bureau announced that they would no longer actively pursue the investigation unless some physical evidence emerged. Even the FBI's reduced involvement. The mystery of D.B. cooper captivated amateur sleuths, with the 5800 recovered at the Tina Bar, you know, Sandy Riverbank being one of the only tangible links to one of the most fascinating crimes. So there you have it.

[David]

When did they close the case? What year?

[Mark Gagnon]

2016.

[David]

Oh, my. Oh, my God.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Trump's America, dude.

[David]

Wait, what month?

[Mark Gagnon]

May.

[David]

Technically, he wasn't.

[Mark Gagnon]

No, July.

[David]

It's Obama.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's a good point. Was it?

[David]

Yeah. Trump gets inaugurated Jan.2017.

[Mark Gagnon]

How do you know that?

[David]

I was there. No, sorry, 2020.

[Mark Gagnon]

The. There are a few people that have claimed to have been D.B. cooper.

[David]

Oh, of course. It's like when a serial killer is on his deathbed, he's like all those other unsolved murders. Yeah, I did that. Immortalized me like I want to be the sickest serial killer ever.

[Mark Gagnon]

Chris, are you nodding your head?

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, let's just look into something. Okay. You got this guy, Dwayne Weber. D.W. d.W. And his widow, Joe Weber. And they make a wild claim. Whoa, What?

[David]

Dwayne and Joe?

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Who's gay Joe? Joanna.

[David]

Oh, okay.

[Mark Gagnon]

Get your head out of the. 1995. Her husband is dying in Florida hospital. He grabs her arm and whispers, I'm Dan Cooper. At the time, Joe had no idea what she meant until she saw a TV special on the hijacking and put it together. After her husband's death, she begins to connect the dots from their 17 year marriage. Weber had a criminal record that include forgery and burglary. He had recurring nightmares about jumping from planes and would sometimes talk in his sleep, sometimes mumbling. Leave the Fingerprints on the plane. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I got to tell you about a dirty little secret, okay? The insurance industry doesn't want you to know this. Well, basically what the insurance companies do is that they profit by holding onto your money as long as possible. You pay them every month and then eventually when an accident happens, they try to deny or delay your claim so that they can keep their profits going. I mean, it goes even worse when in court. The insurance companies want jurors to think that the at fault driver, you know, a mom that rear ends someone, you know, she's a single mom and they think that she is going to be paying the verdict amount. Meanwhile, it's really the insurance companies who are going to be covering the cost. And that's what I want to tell you about the good folks over at Morgan and Morgan because they will take on the case and they are almost always going after the big insurance companies and not the individuals at fault. Morgan and Morgan fights hard for their clients and these corporations know that and it pisses them off. A recent client in Pennsylvania just received $29 million. The insurer's best offer, 500,000. Yeah. There's another client in Florida that received $20 million. And the last offer from the insurance company was $0. There's a reason why Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. So if you are ever injured or dealing with an insurance company that to pay up their fair share, you could go check out Morgan and Morgan. That's right. Hiring the wrong law firm can be disastrous. And hiring the right law firm could, you know, be a big substantial increase to your settlement. And Morgan and Morgan makes it so easy to get started. Their fee is free. Unless they win, there's literally no risk. Unless they win your case, you're not paying a dime. With Morgan and Morgan, it's never been easier. I'm telling you. You just go to for the people. That's right. F o r the people.com and use the code Gagnon G A G N O N or dial pound law. That's pound529. That's for the people.comgagnon or dial pound law. That's £529. And this is a paid advertisement. Now, ladies and gentlemen, let's get back to the show. What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because I'm sitting here in my beautiful tent, as you can see, every week, day in, day out, and people always ask they Say, Mark, how do I have a tent like that? I want to. I want to sit in a beautif, beautiful tent and invite a lover, a friend, you know, someone that I appreciate and adore. I want to give them a good time inside my tent. Well, it's easy. Thanks to the good folks [e-mail]. that's right. Bluechew is the original OG brand offering chewable tablets. And what do these tablets do? Oh, I'm glad you asked. They are going to give you the just a stronger, harder and longer lasting sexual performance. That's right. They're going to help you pitch a tent any place, anywhere. And the best part, it's all done online. That means you don't have to go to a doctor's office and, you know, talk to them, be like, oh, you know, I'm feeling some type of way. Look, this is not for people that are, you know, lacking necessarily. This is for people that want to have the best experience of their life, whether it's Valentine's Day, birthday, a funeral, who knows, whenever you need it. You never know when you could use bluechew. And we have a special deal for the listeners of this program. That's right. Try your first month of BlueChew for free. That's right. Completely free. Mark, is it gonna work for me? Is this, hey, it's free. Why not just try it? Visit bluechew.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank BlueChew for sponsoring this podcast. All right, now let's get after it and let's get back to the show something even more crazy. 1979. He had taken Joe on a trip to the Columbia river, specifically to the area where Brian Ingram would later find the ransom money. During the visit, he walked the riverbank alone for hours, claiming that he was, quote, looking for something. Joe remembered him returning soaking wet, agitated, and having found this guy wanted to beat off so bad he was jerking off near the river and fell in.

[David]

And came back some peace and quiet. Yeah, he's trying to find the perfect.

[Mark Gagnon]

Jerk outfit, soaking wet and rolls back to his wife. He also worked for a lumber company in the Northwest during the period of the hijacking and also had a knee injury. He claimed to have claimed to have happened in the vicinity of the jump zone. Joe also claimed that Duane frequently traveled to the Seattle area and according to her, had particular interest in the annual DB Cooper Days, the celebration held in Washington. When Joe presented her evidence to the FBI, they investigated Weber thoroughly but couldn't conclusively link him to the crime. Well, DNA comparisons with samples from Cooper's tie were inconclusive. FBI Agent Ralph Himmelsbach, the laziest FBI agent ever who spent years on the case, found Weber to be one of the more credible suspects. His physical appearance also matched key aspects of witness description. He was approximately the same height and weight, and despite being a black man, held all of the other. He had. Black dude like, yo, I'm DB.

[David]

They'Re.

[Mark Gagnon]

Like, I think it was a white guy. He's like, nah, nah. These white devils always taking my. Always taking my credit. Can't ever let a black man be great. I'm DB.

[David]

Buys the plane ticket. He's like, I'm Dan, but you can call me DB yo, sitting next to me, he's actually black.

[Mark Gagnon]

No, yo, sit next to me. Pink toes. Little pink toe, shorty. I mean, this guy looks a lot like DB Cooper, bro. But that is a great sketch. The. The black on his deathbed, and he's like, baby, I'm Dan Cooper. And she's like, he's white.

[David]

And she goes, it's the last word.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, that's wild.

[David]

Oh, my God.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's so funny. I mean, that's. If it's just a black dude. Just like a. Just like a. Just a. Just. I mean, that's all time. They did find $200,000 at a local strip club. He blew it all on lottery tickets. We're being racist.

[David]

We gotta stop all the backwoods at the gas station, please. No.

[Mark Gagnon]

That'S a great sketch. We didn't do that.

[David]

Oh, my God. What is a black DB Cooper do with all the money?

[Mark Gagnon]

We're being racist. I don't condone any of these jokes, but it is, unfortunately, very funny. One of the particularly compelling details from Weber's knowledge was the term negotiable currency, a phrase that Cooper used during the hijacking that wasn't widely reported in the press. So, yeah, he. He apparently had knowledge of the term knowledgeable negotiable currency. I don't know if this guy's obsessed with the DB Cooper days, and he's, like, going to DB Cooper days all the time.

[David]

There's a DB That. That's something that I missed. There's a DB Cooper Day?

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, they celebrate in Ariel, Washington, every year.

[David]

God, what fucking losers in the Pacific Northwest. If you're watching this show and you're in the Pacific Northwest, we don't want your eyeballs on this pod.

[Mark Gagnon]

I'm also coming to Portland in August, I think.

[David]

Portland, Maine?

[Mark Gagnon]

No, I'M going to Portland, Oregon. You go to get [e-mail] I'm coming on the road all over the place. You can see me performing. One hour of stand up comedy that's not going to be offensive or racial in any capacity. Oh, we got another suspect. Barbara Dayton, a transgender woman who allegedly claimed to have committed the hijacking before her gender transition. How about this, David? This is a. This is a wonderful theory.

[David]

What are we even fucking talking about anymore?

[Mark Gagnon]

Barbara allegedly confessed to her friends Ron and Pat Foreman. She went over there in her high heels and she said, I'm Dan Krueger. The Foreman's documented their claims in this book, the legend of D.B. cooper. What made Barbara Dayton's case compelling wasn't just that she was transgender, but her background as a licensed pilot and experienced parachutist, along with her knowledge of the Seattle area. The most Seattle criminal of all time.

[David]

Wait, so in this case, she.

[Mark Gagnon]

She.

[David]

She respectful transitioned after born a man.

[Mark Gagnon]

Born DB Born DB Dat bitch goes and gets the money immediately parachutes into the closest hospital, says, chop it off, snip, snip, put some titties in here. I'm living the rest of my life as Barbara. Now that is a story.

[David]

Don't you hate it when they transition and they change their name to the different first initial?

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, I know. She could have just. She could have just been like, Diane Cooper.

[David]

No, Debbie Cooper.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, Debbie Cooper. That'd be awesome. But I guess that's also pretty close, right?

[David]

She goes over to a friend's house. Like, guys, I have big news. Number one, I'm DB Cooper. That's beside the point.

[Mark Gagnon]

What if they didn't know she was trans?

[David]

What do you mean?

[Mark Gagnon]

What if they were just like, oh, yeah, our friend Barbara. Like, she's so sweet. And then she was like, Guys, I'm D.B. cooper. They're like, you used to be a guy. The hell not?

[David]

The surgery back then, that's crazy. It's pretty obvious.

[Mark Gagnon]

Also, trans folks back in the day were about that light life, right? Like, in order to get a surgery back in the day, you had to go hijack a plane just to get your surgery. Like, the trans back in the day were warriors. Nowadays, you get given hormones as a kid. Da, da, da. You don't even have to hijack a plane. You don't have to cause distress to anyone. But back then, they were about that life. So Barbara's case is very interesting. There's more details. She had undergone gender reassignment surgery in 1969, meaning that she could have easily appeared as a man at the time of hijacking. According to close friends Pat and Ron Forman, when Dayton privately confessed to being DB Cooper, she shared specific details about the parachute in the aircraft. Details they claimed weren't public knowledge at the time. Dayton claimed that she committed the crimes in protest of the airline's discrimination against her as a transgender pilot. She allegedly told the Foremans that after successfully completing the hijacking, she buried most of the money, keeping only enough to fund her gender reassignment surgery and living expenses. Let's go. This is the best theory I've heard. This is fire. The form has described how Dayton demonstrated knowledge of skydiving techniques and even showed them how she modified the parachute before the jump.

[David]

Stop listening, because I'm. I'm sorry. I can't.

[Mark Gagnon]

This is the best theory. This one is the best one I know.

[David]

It's the. Definitely the funniest.

[Mark Gagnon]

How's. Why is it funny? Ladies and gentlemen? We got him. She possessed a military style duffel bag similar to the one DB Cooper would have needed to carry the money. FBI investigated Dayton, but didn't consider her a serious suspect. Skeptics point out that at just 5, 5, she was significantly shorter.

[David]

Okay, next one. Next one.

[Mark Gagnon]

She was wearing five, five. She was wearing lifts.

[David]

No.

[Mark Gagnon]

Can we just look into it? I also.

[David]

The suspect was wearing loafers. What? Loafers have a five inch lift.

[Mark Gagnon]

You're telling me that's not DB Cooper? I look, I look at this person, I go, that's obviously. It's obviously also a good switch up for 1969. Right? Like, this is like, that is a trans woman. And I'll be honest. Looks great.

[David]

Would.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[David]

For all I know, she's five. She's five. Five.

[Mark Gagnon]

Five, five isn't great. Okay, so, yeah, that's why she transitioned. It is helpful. If you're a dude and you're five'five you're like, well, might as well be a one. Might as well get some free drinks out of this. You know, I actually, I. I knew a trans woman from back in the day doing comedy in Orlando, and she was pretty short.

[David]

Which way did.

[Mark Gagnon]

Born a man, now a woman?

[David]

Okay, where's her career now?

[Mark Gagnon]

Do you know? Great. Wonderful person, but was pretty short. And I didn't know she was trans for years until she said it in a joke and I was like, oh, wow. Really?

[David]

You didn't know?

[Mark Gagnon]

Not even the. An inkling of a clue? Because if you're like, she was like five, six. I'm Being serious. Being five, six as a dude, I think helps a transition.

[David]

Oh, this person just has a sore throat for 10 years.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. I'm like. The whole time, I was like, yeah, throw a Ricola in the mix. But still, you look great. So people don't really think it's Barbara Dayton because of the height. Later recanted her confession. That's also important to know.

[David]

Fucking Christ. Who. Okay, next one.

[Mark Gagnon]

She claimed it was a fabrication before passing away 2002. But despite that, the theory continues to intrigue researchers. And she vanished without a dick. Anyway. Robert Rackstraw, the cryptic Vietnam veteran. This is another prominent media suspect in the years following the Cooper case. Rackstraw was a decorated military pilot with training in parachuting. He was also a member of the Army Security Agency and received specialized training at the high altitude, low opening parachute jumps, an advanced technique that would have given him the skills needed to survive the jump. Rackstraw's post military life included multiple brushes of the law. He was investigated for fraud, possession of explosives, and even tried for murder of his stepfather. When investigators questioned him about the DB Cooperation hijacking, he gave the cryptic response, I'm not saying I'm DB Cooper, and I'm not saying I'm not. Which makes me think there's no way he's TV Cooper. Right. If you got away with 200,000, let me actually $195,000.

[David]

Oh, yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

You would probably be like, oh, I don't know what you guys are talking about. Right?

[David]

I'm not saying I'm DB Cooper. I'm not saying I'm not.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, like what? What was he Italian?

[David]

Yeah, he was no McCoy.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's no rack straw. He's Italian. Basically, what made him interesting to investigators was following the hijacking, he disappeared in 1972, allegedly telling his family that he had to go south. When he resurfaced, he was cons. He had a considerable amount of unexplained cash. He underwent plastic surgery to alter his appearance and even faked his own death at one point before being discovered living under a pseudonym.

[David]

So, okay, that's an easy. That's an easy track, then. What money do you have? Is it the marked bills that they had given D.B.

[Mark Gagnon]

Cooper?

[David]

Was it?

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, I'm assuming if he paid these surgeons and it never got put in circulation, then it probably wasn't.

[David]

Nobody saw cash. He came back with cash.

[Mark Gagnon]

But I don't think that he was, like, showing up with a briefcase full of cash. I think he was, like, buying things and they were like, where'd you get all this stuff? And he was like, oh, I just, you know, got a side job.

[David]

200.

[Mark Gagnon]

195,000 in face surgery. Yes. Which is genius. You commit a crime, use all that money, change your appearance, and you're like.

[David]

People don't know you.

[Mark Gagnon]

Ta da. I did it.

[David]

The ultimate crime.

[Mark Gagnon]

What'd you spend the money on to get away with the crime? It's kind of perfect, right? It's brilliant. 2016. There was a TV producer, Thomas Colbert, who identified Rackstraw as Cooper, claiming to have decoded letters allegedly sent by the hijacker that pointed to Rackstraw's military units. According to Colbert's team, the letters contain encoded references to three army units Rackstraw had been connected with. The team also claimed to have found a parachute strap and partial instructions for a bomb that matched the one described by Cooper. The FBI, however, officially removed Rackstraw from their suspect list in the 1980s after ruling him out through physical evidence. Nevertheless, his military background, physical resemblance, and suspicious behavior kept him on the radar of amateur investigators until his death in 2019. Throughout his life, Rackstraw seemed to enjoy notoriety that came with being a Cooper suspect, occasionally dropping hints, but never making a definitive statement. I get. I mean, DB Cooper is also just the most generic. The most generic white guy ever.

[David]

When I die, I'm gonna say, I'm DB Cooper.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, we should start. Start that now. Start dropping hints. Right.

[David]

I can't. I'm not 5 10.

[Mark Gagnon]

But you could get surgery.

[David]

How do I get the money?

[Mark Gagnon]

I have one way.

[David]

I have one way to get the money.

[Mark Gagnon]

All right, here's another popular suspect. People like Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr. In April 1972, McCoy hijacked a United Airlines flight from Denver to Los Angeles using a handwritten note claiming he had a bomb. He demanded four parachutes, but McCoy wanted $500,000 in cash. After receiving the money, McCoy jumped from the Boeing 727 and successfully escaped. That's pretty cool. Unlike Cooper, however, McCoy was captured two days later after investigators traced a rental car that he used. He was convicted and sentenced to 45 years in prison, but escaped in 1974 using a fake handgun made from dental paste. McCoy didn't make it long, though. Three months later, he was killed in a shootout with FBI agents in Virginia.

[David]

Didn't make it long. Three months after escaping prison.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's pretty sick. But it's like, all time. His background made him a perfect Cooper. Candidate Vietnam veteran, combat experience, helicopter pilot, received army parachute training, accomplished recreational skydiver taught skydiving courses at the Brigham University, where he was studying law enforcement. Similarities between the two hijackings are striking. Both men had similar notes. Requested parachutes, jumped from 727s, demonstrated knowledge of aviation. FBI Agent Russell Calamme worked on both cases and co authored a book, argued that McCoy and Cooper were the same person. However, there was also significant differences. McCoy was younger than Cooper's estimated age. He was 29 versus the mid-40s that D.B. cooper is claimed to have been. Most witnesses from the Cooper hijacking failed to identify McCoy in photo lineups. McCoy also had a solid alibi. Family members claimed that he was with them in Utah for Thanksgiving during the day of Cooper's hijacking. I mean, that's pretty bad if you showed a bunch of the.

[David]

Jesus Christ. I thought my hairline was bad. 29 years old.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, that's. That's tough.

[David]

Okay.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, people back in the day age so bad. Yeah.

[David]

Why do you think that is?

[Mark Gagnon]

I should have saw an interesting YouTube video about this.

[David]

What was it about?

[Mark Gagnon]

It was about why people look so much older back in the day.

[David]

Why is it. Is it, like, a mental phenomenon or.

[Mark Gagnon]

It was like, a mixture of, like, cosmetics. People also think that, like, you know, alcohol consumption back in the day was way higher. You know, that's true.

[David]

And because we're having, like, whiskey at lunch.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, stuff like that. Like cigarettes. People were smoking cigarettes. Like, way more. Like, people are just generally a little bit more health conscious.

[David]

Should I stop smoking cigarettes?

[Mark Gagnon]

No, keep it up. You look great. Despite the alibi, Some investigators believe McCoy could have made it back to Utah in time for the family dinner, especially if he had an accomplice to assist in transportation. Others proposed that McCoy was inspired by Cooper's success and decided to make his own hijack. And then there is yet another theory. Okay, we only have a couple more left. Kenneth Christensen. New stories have emerged since the DB Cooper era. 2003. This guy, Kenneth Christensen's brother, claimed that he was DB Cooper. He died in 1994, but was a paratrooper in World War II and was later a flight purser for the Northwest Orient Airlines. Ooh.

[David]

Okay.

[Mark Gagnon]

Does that sound familiar?

[David]

Why wasn't this number one? We started with a black guy and then a transgender who was five'five and then a guy who was factually not him.

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, we're going down the list. He fit the physical description of the Cooper and had the necessary knowledge of aircraft operations. His position at Northwest Orient gave him intimate knowledge of the procedures, protocols, and Airline features, specifically the 727's rear staircase. He would have been familiar with the flight routes, crew protocols, and potentially observed how cash payments were handled by the airline. But what made him particularly suspicious is that despite earning a modest income, he purchased a house in cash after the hijacking. After his death, his brother discovered a hidden cachet of money and confessed. And a confession from Kenneth that he had something he wanted to get off his chest. Though he never completed the confession before passing away.

[David]

Okay, easy solution. The house he bought in cash, were they the marked bills?

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, that's a very reasonable question. Look, the marked bills thing is a problem, okay? But Christensen also resembled the composite sketches of Cooper and was known to smoke the same brand of cigarettes. Raleigh. A photograph of Christensen from around the time of the hijacking shows him wearing what? A clip on tie similar to the one that Cooper left on the plane. Furthermore, Christensen requested a leave of absence from Northwest Orient. When did he do this? The exact time of the DB Cooper hijacking. When he returned to work, colleagues noted that he seemed to have come into some money, upgraded his lifestyle, and never wore a tie ever again. Seems strange. Author Jeffrey Gray. My least favorite spelling of Jeffrey, by the way.

[David]

Joffrey.

[Mark Gagnon]

I like that he wrote the book Skyjack David Sanchez on a Delta flight and considered Christensen one of the more plausible suspects. Though the FBI never listed him as a primary suspect. Critics of the Christensen theory point out that he was 5, 8, shorter than most witness descriptions of Cooper and that his friendly, mild mannered personality didn't match the mole. The bold, commanding presence. I mean, that's dumb. Being like, oh, you're not as. Your. Your attitude isn't as, you know, isn't as wacky, you know, like, that seems dumb. I hate when people do that. Like, people like a dog would go missing, they'll be like, oh, you'll know the dog. He's a golden retriever and his name's Skip and super friendly. He's the friendliest dog in the world.

[David]

And that's just lost in the city. And you're so frantic. Like, that's not it.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's. There's no way that Skip. I would call and be like, hey, I saw a golden frieber named Skip, but he seems super passive aggressive and sarcastic. This dog was super sarcastic. I don't think it was your dog.

[David]

This. This is the most believable story.

[Mark Gagnon]

Oh, also, is there no, like, security.

[David]

Cameras in the airport in 1971?

[Mark Gagnon]

You would think, but I guess not. When were security cameras implemented? In. In airports. Let's figure that out. One of the more recent suspects to emerge is Lynn Doyle Cooper. LD Cooper. So if you're gonna buy a plane ticket to hijack and steal a bunch of money, you're gonna use your same last name. He was publicly identified 2011 by his niece, Marla Cooper. According to Marla, she recalls overhearing LD and another uncle planning something very mischievous around Thanksgiving 1971, when she was just eight years old. Marla's suspicion was later fueled when LD returned home injured the day after the hijacking. His injuries included bruises and a bloody shirt. They were explained away as a result of, like a car accident or something, you know? Yeah, no, I was just in a car accident. It doesn't matter. Just bloody shirt. Yeah, still rolling up. Marla remembers her uncle discussing how money problems are over and being sworn to secrecy about what she had seen and heard. Most intriguing detail was LD's fascination with the Canadian comic book hero named Dan Cooper, the exact name the hijacker used when purchasing the ticket. This obscure detail that the hijacker had used the name Dan rather than DB wasn't widely known to the public due to the reporter messing up the name of the newspaper, adding credibility to Marla's claim. That's interesting. No one knew it was Dan Cooper. The media said D.B. cooper, but for some reason, this guy was obsessed.

[David]

Where do you get DB from?

[Mark Gagnon]

I don't know. Right. Is an interesting mix up. I don't even know how that happens. They said it was a typo. That's what it was, Dan. Just.

[David]

I'm looking at my computer right now. The A and the B are nowhere near each other.

[Mark Gagnon]

It was a different time. They said it was a typo in the newspaper. Yeah, but like he's saying, if you're looking at a typewriter, like, you know, keyboard, how are you going to mess up the D, A, D, A, N and db?

[David]

Someone instead of D A, did DB instead.

[Mark Gagnon]

But how do you make that?

[David]

Yeah, but like, how do you, like. If it was like DS Cooper, I would understand because the S and the A are right next to each other.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's a good question. It was D.X. cooper. Suck it. LD Cooper had also been a Korean War veteran with experience in parachuting, was familiar with the Pacific Northwest, having worked as a logger in the region. After the hijacking, he showed up with strange injuries, drank heavily, and pulled away from the family. Years later, niece Marla looked back and thought maybe it wasn't just a coincidence. Marla Cooper provided the FBI with a guitar strap and a Christmas photo of LD for DNA comparison. But the Bureau had not publicly confirmed whether these items yielded any conclusive results. Nevertheless, Marla remains convinced that her uncle was the skyjacker. I know with 100% certainty that my uncle did it, said Marla Cooper. Now, David, some people suggest that he didn't survive at all. Oh, is this how the. How the mix up happened? They blamed the error by his source for a bad phone connection, for the mistake, he said. The Journal ran a piece with the name Dan Cooper the next day, but it didn't matter. So they got on the phone and they said, yeah, this guy, Dan Cooper. And they said, oh, D.B. look, that's actually what happened. I mean, what. What do you want me to say?

[David]

I don't want you to say anything.

[Mark Gagnon]

Some people think he didn't die, and they point to all the things we've already talked about. Freezing storm, only wearing a suit, minimal parachute, dense forest, mountain train money never showing up in circulation.

[David]

No, no, you said it wrong. So some people say or think he died. You say, some people don't think he died.

[Mark Gagnon]

Some people don't think he died.

[David]

And then you gave reasons for why he would have died.

[Mark Gagnon]

Some people don't think he died. For.

[David]

God, I love sitting in the chair and just catching Mark's mishaps.

[Mark Gagnon]

If I catch another mishap, I'll kiss you on the mouth with my fist. FBI agent Larry Carr, who led the investigation from 2007, 2010, firmly believed Cooper.

[David]

Oh, you're stuttering now, bro.

[Mark Gagnon]

Oh, I was just thinking. I was like, if I mess up one more time, I'll kiss you on the mouth. Fcp. Did I mess up? According to CAR, Cooper's actions, such as jumping with the emergency reserve chute rather than the main chute, not requesting a helmet, jumping in loafers, all suggest that he did not understand what he was doing at all. We thought he was some experienced, you know, you know, skydiver because the jump was so dangerous. But an experienced jumper would never attempt that because it's impossible. The theory proposes that.

[David]

Say it again.

[Mark Gagnon]

What does this guy know?

[David]

He's impossible.

[Mark Gagnon]

What does this guy know? FBI Agent Larry Carr. It's impossible. Sure, that's what he said.

[David]

You ever watch Prison Break?

[Mark Gagnon]

No.

[David]

So my first exposure to DB Cooper was season one of Prison Break, where, spoiler alert, the whole show is about Michael Schofield trying to get his brother out of jail. And they assemble this rat cat. Static cat, the Rat Pack team of, like, trying to get out of prison. And it all, like, brought something to the table. There was an old guy in prison and, like, the lore was that he was D.B. cooper. And his way to get in on the mission to get out was like, hey, like, I'm DB Cooper. I know where the money. Money is long, like, spoiler alert. He doesn't get out, he gets, like, stabbed by a cop. But he told Michael Schofield where the cop. Where the the money was. And in season two, it was somewhere in Utah, which is why I thought he jumped out in Utah. But in season two, they, like, go to the coordinates, like a house is built on top of it. They go to the garage and dig it out. And the money was there. So this being my first exposure to DB Cooper back in the day, I'm like, oh, he's alive. He's dead. He never made it out. Listen, we're being silly. We like conspiracy theories, we like to let our imagination run. But he is fucking. He never made it to the ground alive.

[Mark Gagnon]

Can I share one more piece of research that happened in 2020?

[David]

Who's still watching?

[Mark Gagnon]

What about this piece of evidence? Do you want to consider this?

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

D.B. cooper's remains were discovered. Okay, that's not true. In 2020, a research team studying the $20 bills found by the little kid that was digging up a little fire pit. And they found a strange discovery. Microscopic algae called diatoms. Where are these diatoms found? Only on meteorites. Now, riddle me this. Is it possible that DB Cooper, instead of going down, went upwards? Hold on now, this is important.

[David]

I'm. No, these.

[Mark Gagnon]

These diadems weren't just any kind, okay? They were the kind that bloom in the Columbia river during spring and summer, not in November when D.B. cooper made his jump. The money didn't land in the river the night of the hijacking. It likely ended up there three months later, maybe even years later. How did it survive? DB Cooper survives, stashes the cash and comes back to get it later. Maybe someone else found the money and hid it for some unknown reason, no one knows. But in 2022, a major clue resurfaces. We're on the bleeding edge of DB Cooper research. Okay, this is only three years old. Four years old. Okay?

[David]

Three years old. You got it, right? It's 2025.

[Mark Gagnon]

But I'm saying maybe this was discovered in time zones. I don't know. The cold case, led by this guy Eric Ulis, takes a closer look at the black clip on tie high powered microscope. They discover microscopic metal particles Some of these include rare metals like titanium, strontium sulfide and cerium, not found in everyday environments. In the 1970s, these metals were used in specific industries, such as aerospace and defense. One of their employees, a guy named Vince Peterson, a metallurgist who often traveled to Washington State for work, fit the general description of Cooper, had the exact materials on his tie. This Guy died in 2002, and the family says there's no way he was D.B. cooper. Still, the Thai particles point to one thing. Clearly, cooperation likely worked in a technical field involving rare metals, such as aerospace, aviation or engineering. One of the most talked about discoveries in 2023, when the children of the hijacker, Richard McCoy, stepped forward. McCoy is the guy that we just talked about that pulled off the exact same hijacking for years. People. The same guy. 2023, son and daughter. They claimed to have found something in their mother's shed. An old parachute. Not just any parachute, but the one they believed was used by their father during the hijack. They turned it over to the FBI, who confirmed that it was. What? Military surplus rig consistent with those issued in 1970. The siblings also offered DNA to compare against the potential samples from his tie. The FBI hasn't released any of the results, but this is the closest the Bureau has come in years to handling a piece of potential evidence tied directly to the hijacking. Let's go through one last piece of evidence, okay? I promise this is the last one. I know you're not happy, but I think this is going to really get you on board with the idea that maybe he's still out there. Maybe now he's a vigilante doing.

[David]

He's how old? Mid-40s? 1970? 50 years? He could be alive. He's in, like, late 90s.

[Mark Gagnon]

Okay, maybe he's in his 80s and.

[David]

He lied and he just aged poorly.

[Mark Gagnon]

Maybe he lives in Brooklyn, New York. Maybe he goes to Oslo Coffee every morning. Maybe David. Who knows?

[David]

That's how he owns that condo in Williamsburg.

[Mark Gagnon]

Maybe. We don't know. We don't know who he is. It could be anyone. But they did release a ton of files from the DB Cooper investigation. One file revealed that an entire dredging operation took place in 1974, right where the ransom money was later found. If the riverbed was cleared, how did the money survive the dredging? Could someone have planted it there after 1974? It was quite the bombshell. They also discovered that the FBI also lost the cigarette butts that Davy Cooper had been smoking. The Raleighs that were left on the plane during the hijacking. That could have been usable DNA, except somewhere between 71 and now, they were misplaced. The one thing Cooper definitely touched. Put his in, put in his mouth and gone forever. And so that's a gut punch to all the, you know, investigators and sleuths that have been trying to figure this out.

[David]

You think Trump would have won instead of promising to release the JFK files?

[Mark Gagnon]

We're gonna find DB Cooper.

[David]

We're gonna find DB Great guy.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's a great man.

[David]

Great man. We're gonna release those files. The government doesn't want us to, but I want to.

[Mark Gagnon]

But there's also a wonderful event that we're gonna go to coming up. Coopercon researchers like Tom K, Eric Ulis and others continue to go search for FBI evidence, hoping to test the tie with new methods. And the tie is still in FBI custody today with no full DNA profile being released. But that doesn't mean that it couldn't be possible one day. But every year, people do go to Cooper Con.

[David]

Where is it? Washington?

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Can we look up Cooper Con?

[David]

Let's shoot up that whole. What the fuck are you doing there?

[Mark Gagnon]

It's cool, bro. It's just a bunch of losers. They're not losers. They're just people that are interested in this interesting anti hero.

[David]

It's every year.

[Mark Gagnon]

Happens every year.

[David]

What is the difference between, like, 2011 to 2012? Like, hey, you guys. You guys find anything else?

[Mark Gagnon]

What? Click on this.

[David]

Reddit thread. Nice.

[Mark Gagnon]

It's held in Seattle. And. Okay. They're considering selling the rights for $10,000. Do we buy it? Do we buy the rights to Cooper Con? So what do you think? You think he definitely died?

[David]

Yes.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, I think he probably did. Oh.

[David]

But we needed to do an episode.

[Mark Gagnon]

I was keeping the hope alive. I didn't know all the information. Okay. I just wasn't sure. Okay, wait, what is this three day.

[David]

Event where everyone from case experts to those with casual interest gather to explore America's only unsolved skyjacking?

[Mark Gagnon]

So then riddle me this. Who did it? Answer that. If you know everything.

[David]

That's not the question.

[Mark Gagnon]

If you're so smart, if you're. If you're like, oh, I know, I know it wasn't these guys.

[David]

It's not the. That's not the question of who did it. Is. Is the guy still alive?

[Mark Gagnon]

You're the worst investigator of all time.

[David]

No, I'm like, that guy.

[Mark Gagnon]

My bike got stolen. Oh, my bike got stolen. Who do you think did it, David? It doesn't matter who did it. It just matters that that guy got deported by ice, okay?

[David]

Is what all that matters.

[Mark Gagnon]

Would it. Would it matter if. If you said to the police, hey, someone stole my bike, and then they go, hey, it doesn't matter who did it? Because we can tell you that the guy who did it, he's not here anymore. But that. Would that pacify. That's. Would that quench your thirst for justice? The answer. Is it for another episode? Answer.

[David]

Okay, we appreciate you wasting an hour and a half of your time.

[Mark Gagnon]

How about you guys comment below? Tell me what you think. Think. Okay, Drop it in the comments. Let's get a Miles going, by the way, please, and just let me know. Do you think he's alive? You think he died? You think he's in the wilderness?

[David]

I think Miles is alive.

[Mark Gagnon]

Perhaps DB Cooper is still alive to this day. Still living out in the wilderness of the Pacific Northwest with an encampment he's cited every now and again by Back to Camp researchers.

[David]

He's dead.

[Mark Gagnon]

And that's where the Sasquatch came from. It's just a hairy. A hairy Italian just holding bags of money everywhere he goes.

[David]

He walks into the coffee shop every morning with like. Just like. What is a. What does a cup of cold brew go for nowadays?

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Anyway, thank you guys so much for tuning in to another episode camp. God bless you all and to all a good night. If you've made it to the end of this episode, that's because you rock with us. And for that, we rock with you. You are sophisticated. You enjoy honest, true communication. A highbrowed type of person that understands this history is not just dates and names. It is a tapestry of human triumph and tragedy. From the day Nostradamus made his first prophecy to the morning Paul Revere took his midnight ride from ancient oracles to modern revolutionaries. That is why I need you. If you have not already, please sign up for Today in History. Our free newsletter, Today in History brings you the stories that matter, the moments that changed everything, and the secrets hidden in time. Join thousands of history enthusiasts who get their daily journey through time. Don't let another day of history pass you by. Take the conversation to your inbox. Sign up now through the QR code or link in the description Today in History because history stories shape tomorrow's world. Thank you for watching the episode. We'll see you next time.