The Satanic Trafficking Cult America Forgot | The Franklin Conspiracy

Summary

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Camp Gagnon Podcast Summary

Episode: The Satanic Trafficking Cult America Forgot | The Franklin Conspiracy

Host: Mark Gagnon
Guest: Nick Bryant (Author of The Franklin Scandal)
Date: March 2, 2026

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode centers on the disturbing but under-discussed Franklin Scandal—a child trafficking and blackmail operation paralleling the Epstein network, with tentacles into American politics and protected by intelligence agencies. Mark Gagnon interviews Nick Bryant, who has extensively researched the Franklin case, to explore the inner workings, cover-ups, and chilling similarities to modern scandals.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to the Franklin Scandal

• Franklin Scandal Overview (04:03)

  • A nationwide child trafficking and political blackmail ring in the 1980s.
  • Epicenter: Omaha, Nebraska, focusing on the Franklin Credit Union.
  • Two main perpetrators: Lawrence E. King (Omaha) and Craig Spence (Washington D.C.).
  • Children, many from Boystown orphanage, flown to D.C. for parties at Spence’s mansion, which was wired for audiovisual blackmail.

• Financial & Trafficking Crimes (05:59)

  • The operation also involved massive embezzlement (~$40 million) from the credit union.
  • Officially, grand juries dismissed the trafficking as a hoax but confirmed the financial crimes.

2. Mechanisms of Power & Compromise

• Blackmail Tactics (13:14)

  • Politicians invited to parties where sexual activities (often illegal) were covertly recorded for leverage.
  • Rusty Nelson, Spence & King’s photographer, explained the analogy:

    “Once you’re compromised, it’s like you’re on a yacht… If you decide to get off, the people on the yacht are going to make sure you drown.” — Rusty Nelson (13:14)

• Protection by Intelligence Agencies (14:18, 33:38, 49:06)

  • King, Spence, and Epstein were not acting solo:

    “There’s some dark, malignant corner of our intelligence that blackmails people. That’s how they operate.” — Nick Bryant (10:22, 14:18)

  • Systematic cover-up by federal agencies. FBI actively scared off whistleblowers and tampered with witnesses.

• Grand Jury Corruption (21:14)

  • Grand juries were manipulated by special prosecutors to exonerate perpetrators and indict victims who refused to recant.

3. Victims, Investigators, & Consequences

• Victim Coercion & Retaliation (23:20)

  • Victims pressured to recant; some, like Alicia Owen, didn’t and received severe sentences:

    “Alicia Owen… was indicted on eight counts of perjury… looking at 200 years in prison for saying ’I was abused.’” — Nick Bryant (23:21)

  • System deliberately discredits survivors through criminalization and mental health issues.

• Suppression of Evidence & Deaths (54:38)

  • Lead state senate investigator Gary Caradori collected vital evidence, including photos from Rusty Nelson, before dying in a suspicious plane explosion.

    “His plane blew up over Lee County, Illinois, after he met with the blackmail photographer.” — Nick Bryant (54:38)

  • Numerous others associated with the case met untimely deaths.

4. The Political Blackmail Network

• How Blackmail Worked (32:53, 38:28)

  • Parties would “turn” into situations where guests could be compromised.
  • Quote:

    “There’s the straight up parties where everyone’s on the yacht… then the parties where people get lubricated, and at a certain point, something sexually explicit happens. The people freaked out leave, but the ones who stay get compromised.” — Nick Bryant (38:28)

  • Blackmailers needed protection; otherwise, “the most powerful men… would have taken them out.” (49:45)

• Examples of Compromised Politicians

  • Larry Craig (Idaho Senator): Provided with male escorts, caught soliciting in a public bathroom, used as an example of easy compromise. (41:53)
  • Dennis Hastert (Speaker of the House): Had a long history of abusing boys, was later blackmailed and imprisoned (not for abuse, but financial crimes connected to blackmail payouts). (44:09-46:15)

• Modern Acknowledgements

  • Congressman Tim Burchette publicly admitted that honey traps (sexual blackmail) compromise many in Congress. (37:26)

    “He said a lot of my colleagues are being compromised in honey traps.” — Nick Bryant (37:26)

  • The Epstein case is cited as a modern parallel; evidence (hundreds of DVDs from Epstein’s safe) disappeared into a federal “black hole.” (36:04)

5. Systemic and Structural Issues

• Organizational Protection

  • Neither Epstein nor Spence nor King could blackmail the elite without large organizations and official backing.

    “They cannot be blackmailing the most powerful men in the world without an organization behind them.” — Nick Bryant (49:15)

  • U.S. intelligence, sometimes intersecting with other foreign agencies (Mossad, etc.), is implicated.

• Military/Intelligence Motives (50:34)

  • Blackmail used to steer budgets, policy, and ensure the military/intelligence complex remains untouchable.

• Ritual Abuse & Satanic Elements (57:40-60:16)

  • Some victims described ritual abuse with occult and sadistic elements.

    “There is a group of occultists that are very, very dark and their highest sacrament is the destruction of innocence.” — Nick Bryant (57:52)

  • Subject is controversial, often dismissed because of ‘satanic panic’, but Bryant supports its plausibility with documentation.

6. Johnny Gosch & Other High-Profile Victims

• Johnny Gosch Abduction (61:35)
  • Links drawn between Franklin network and infamous missing paperboy.
  • Witness testimony matched to actual physical evidence, like the underground chamber with initials where children were kept. (62:09-65:34)
  • Despite documentation, key suspects (e.g., Charles Crouch) never prosecuted.

7. Lingering Impunity & Ongoing Risk

• Perpetrators Remain Free (68:13)

  • King served only for financial crimes—was never charged for trafficking, is not a registered offender, and continues trying to work around children’s organizations.

    “A journalist has to protect kids from a super predator because the feds know what kind of a predator King is.” — Nick Bryant (69:18)

• Personal Risks

  • Many involved (victims, journalists, investigators) faced death, violence, or lifelong repercussions.
  • Bryant himself continues to antagonize King, getting him expelled from various organizations.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Once you’re compromised, it’s like you’re on a yacht... If you decide to get off, the people on the yacht will make sure you drown.”
— Rusty Nelson, blackmail photographer (13:14)

“There’s some dark, malignant corner of our intelligence that blackmails people... that’s how they operate.”
— Nick Bryant (10:22, 14:18)

“They cannot be blackmailing the most powerful men in the world without an organization behind them.”
— Nick Bryant (49:15)

“Alicia Owen…looking at 200 years in prison for saying ‘I was abused.’”
— Nick Bryant (23:21)

“I mean, if love is blind, lust is deaf, dumb and quadriplegic.”
— Nick Bryant (52:45)

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Important Timestamps

• [04:03] — Summary of the Franklin Scandal’s origins and main figures
• [10:22] — Discussion of how individuals become assets for political blackmail
• [13:14] — Rusty Nelson's analogy of blackmail and “the yacht”
• [21:14] — How grand juries are manipulated to exonerate abusers
• [23:20] — The coercion and sentencing of victim Alicia Owen
• [32:53] — Spence’s blackmail systems and technique
• [36:04] — Disappearance of Epstein’s blackmail DVDs
• [38:28] — How politicians were lured and compromised at parties
• [41:53 & 44:09] — Specific politicians (Larry Craig, Dennis Hastert) discussed as compromised
• [49:15] — Discussion of orchestrated, organizational blackmail, not lone actors
• [57:40] — Ritual abuse allegations and their significance
• [61:35] — Johnny Gosch’s abduction and ties to Franklin scandal
• [68:13] — King’s post-prison life, lack of registration, and Bryant’s activism

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Tone & Language

The conversation is candid, investigative, and at times darkly humorous—matching the gravity of the subject matter with the host’s irreverent yet sincere curiosity and Bryant’s detailed, unflinching expertise.

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For Further Inquiry

• The Franklin Scandal by Nick Bryant for deeper documentation
• Nick Bryant’s website for supplementary materials and case documents

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In summary:
This episode offers a comprehensive, chilling exposé of the Franklin Scandal—its networks, methods, cover-ups, and the tragic impunity still protecting elite traffickers. Parallels to the Epstein case and ongoing patterns of political blackmail are highlighted, with a stark warning about the enduring power of these protected conspiracies.

Transcript

[Nick Bryant]

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[Podcast Host]

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[Nick Bryant]

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[Podcast Host]

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[Nick Bryant]

I almost couldn't breathe when I saw

[Podcast Host]

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[Nick Bryant]

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[Podcast Host]

1-800-contacts. What's up, everybody, and welcome back to camp. Today we are talking about an interesting topic, something that a comedian definitely should be talking about. And I was doing a lot of research on this specific thing. There's a Jeffrey Epstein kind of opened up, I think, a social thought bubble about this type of crime, things related to underage trafficking, specifically for the means of extortion or political blackmail. And in doing my research, I came across a very interesting book called the Franklin Scandal, written by a guy named Nick Bryant, who happens to be sitting right across from me. How are you, Nick?

[Nick Bryant]

I'm good. Good to be with you.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I'm really excited to speak with you. You have a very fascinating life. You've done a lot of really interesting research. You, for, you know, lack of a better word, you basically published Jeffrey Epstein's black book onto the Internet.

[Nick Bryant]

I literally published Jeffrey Epstein's black book on the Internet.

[Podcast Host]

So if there was a guy to talk to about political extortion schemes and these dirty deeds as it involves, you know, large power brokers in America and around the world, I think you'd be the guy to talk to.

[Nick Bryant]

I'm in the. I'm in the top 1%, I would say so maybe.01%.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Right.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

You know, you're not a billionaire. You know what I mean? You're not. You're not.

[Nick Bryant]

I'm not.

[Podcast Host]

You weren't an accomplice of Epstein's, right?

[Nick Bryant]

Well, I'd be living in a much nicer apartment if I was an accomplice of Jeffrey Epstein.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, you wouldn't be in a 10 with me. But today I really am interested in speaking about two specific cases. Everything related to Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, her family, his family, the people that were involved, Les Wexner, the people the. That were benefiting from these, you know, trafficking operations. And I also want to speak about a case known as the Franklin Scandal. The Franklin Scandal, I think is a little bit lesser known, but basically, you know, parallels the Epstein case almost exactly.

[Nick Bryant]

They're carbon copies almost.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. And I think it's important to discuss them in tandem because I think that a lot of people look at Epstein, they say, oh, this is a little bit weird. There's some weird things going on. Even if you don't accept, you know, all of the conspiratorial nature of the things involving Epstein, which we'll get into. I think most people look at it and it's kind of become a meme like, oh, Epstein didn't kill himself. That's sort of the phrase and the terminology that people use. And so I think a lot of people have questions about that, and so we're going to get to that. But I want to talk about the Franklin scandal because I think it's lesser known and I think equally as disturbing. And you wrote the book the Franklin Scandal, which is an excellent book that details everything, so thorough. I mean, it was basically you and the journalist that was actually doing the work in the 80s on the case. He eventually died in a plane crash.

[Nick Bryant]

He was an investigator. Oh, an investigator for the Nebraska State Senate.

[Podcast Host]

And I would say you two are probably the two most qualified people discuss this. So I'm curious. Could you just give me just an outline for the lay people to get them up to speed? What was the Franklin scandal? When did it happen, and who are the main people that were involved?

[Nick Bryant]

The Franklin scandal is a. About a nationwide on that word, very much like Jeffrey Epstein's. It was the epicenter was in Omaha, Nebraska, and there were two primary pimps. One was Lawrence E. King, and one was Craig Spence. Craig Spencer was in Washington D.C. and King was in Omaha. And King was getting lots of children from Boystown, the distinguished Catholic orphanage on the outskirts of Omaha. And then these guys, predators like Epstein or King or Spence, they. They know how to get kids. They know where to get kids. Super predators know how to pray. So King was flying kids and. And I've got about 200 flight receipts and he was flying kids from coast to coast. And most of the flight receipts that I have are passenger manifests go to Washington D.C. and in Washington D.C. there was a party house run by a power broker named Craig Spence who had connections to Mount Olympus. This guy was as plugged in as someone can be in Washington, D.C. and

[Podcast Host]

who was this guy?

[Nick Bryant]

He was a lobbyist. And he was also, I believe, a compromise. He's also a CIA asset. And King would bring the kids. A lot. A lot of times, Kim would bring the kids. Dispenses home. His mansion in the Kalorama section of Washington, D.C. and it was wired for audiovisual blackmail, just like Epstein's homes. So any of the politicians or power brokers that stayed there and wanted a party that they would ultimately be compromised by, by Craig Spence or this. I mean, some. You can say CIA, but it's some dark, malignant corner of intelligence.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, now I want to just clear up a couple of things, because as I was doing research, there were some things that I found a little confusing. So it's called the Franklin scandal because it came out of the Franklin Credit Union in Omaha, Nebraska. Now, there's two crimes that are happening simultaneously. There's a financial crime, and then there's also this trafficking crime. And in, I guess, full, you know, full transparency with the official narrative. The official narrative says that the trafficking amongst a grand jury was a hoax.

[Nick Bryant]

Actually, two grand juries.

[Podcast Host]

Two grand juries, yeah. They say that element was a hoax. But the financial crimes, they were legitimate. And he defrauded people of millions of dollars. So it's called the Franklin scandal because

[Nick Bryant]

of this credit union, the Franklin Credit Union.

[Podcast Host]

He was. What. What was he doing with the Franklin Credit Union?

[Nick Bryant]

Lawrence King, he was a Republican power broker. He even sang the national anthem at the 1984 Republican convention. He's a very good singer. A very evil man, but. But very good singer. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And R. Kelly's a good singer.

[Nick Bryant]

It's. So with King, he used the Franklin Credit Union as basically a boiler room. And he was able to embezzle about $40 million. And if you're a federally insured credit union, you have to be audited at least once a year by the feds. And the feds hadn't audited the Franklin Credit Union in four years. And then all of a sudden, it's rated and $40 million is missing. So a number of Nebraska senators formed what was called the Franklin Committee to look into the embezzlement. But after they came together, people from social services approached them and they said, king is a thief, but he's also running a nationwide trafficking network. And they had reports about King that they'd given to both state and federal law enforcement, and they were simply ignored. So they wanted the, the social service people personnel wanted the senators to look into the child trafficking too, which they did.

[Podcast Host]

So how does this work? Someone like King, he's moving his way up the ranks of, you know, Republican politics and then he somehow is now in the embezzlement thing. Makes sense, right? People like to steal. And if you're in a position where you're unchecked, you're going to steal. Sure. But how do you get into a position where you are now procuring children and then sending them to other high power people? Are they putting a known in that position to do that or was he compromised and then had to do it? What do you think happened?

[Nick Bryant]

King is. I've got no doubts about that. My theory is, and this is just my theory. If you read the Franklin scandal, I, I prove much of the Franklin scandal was sealed grand jury testimony and sealed grand jury exhibits. And it's about as solid a book as a book can be as far as research. But I'm just extrapolating here. Both King and his, my partner, Craig Spence, they were both in Southeast Asia at the same time. King was in Thailand with a top secret clearance. And Craig Spence was a wa. An ABC core war correspondent. And when they both. And and they're both from working class families, much like Epstein, who we'll get into later. They're both from working class families and they were both. And what I think happened, I think that they probably got busted in Southeast Asia in little boys. And that's where they were turned because once they came back to the US Their careers just skyrocketed exponentially.

[Podcast Host]

And why is King in Southeast Asia with top. What? Top clearance. Was he military?

[Nick Bryant]

He was ostensibly with the Air Force. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, so this is a guy from a working class family, gets in the Air Force, he's a, goes to Southeast Asia, it's a boy, he gets caught. And then basically, and then again, this is conjecture and pure allegation that he was, you know, that they say, hey, we'll give you a deal. How about you can go back? And he's like, oh, but I have a career in politics, I want to do xyz. And they say, how about you can work for us as an asset and you'll avoid jail time, you'll live a

[Nick Bryant]

good life and you'll be able to as many kids as you want. I mean, that was the deal that was made, I believe with King, I believe it was made with Spence, and I believe that it was Made with Jeffrey Epstein too.

[Podcast Host]

And where do you think these deals come from? Is this high brass in intelligence, US Government.

[Nick Bryant]

There's some dark malignant corner of our intelligence that blackmails people. I mean that's just how they, that's political blackmail is as old as politics itself.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

Alexander Hamilton, who. There's been a number of hagiophreys written about like the founding fathers that give them saint like status. But Alexander Hamilton was having an affair with a 23 year old girl who was woman who was married and her husband was blackmailing him. And there was a muckraking journalist who outed Alexander Hamilton and Jefferson had become president and Jefferson and Hamilton had tremendous antipathy towards each other. So the muckraking journalists felt that Jefferson would give him an appointment in his administration. And when Jefferson didn't do that, the muckraking journalist outed him for having sex with one of his slaves, Sally Hemings. And actually DNA has shown that, that they had progeny and that. So when we get into political blackmail, it's an, it's something that's age old. It's, it's not something that's just new.

[Podcast Host]

Right. And the idea of, you know, child trafficking would make sense in this regard because you know, maybe you could use you know, being gay right back in like the, you know, 60s, 70s, 80s, even in the 90s. And like we have evidence, you know, like the mafia would control gay bars in order to get politicians to do their bidding, et cetera. So these things are more or less documented. But now, you know, obviously being gay rightfully is, you know, not an issue socially or not as much of an issue generally.

[Nick Bryant]

Not an issue, but it can be.

[Podcast Host]

Sure. I guess if you're being fraudulent about it, it would be a problem.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah, I mean if you're like Peter Thiel and you're completely in the closet and gawker out you and.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

You shouldn't be outed. I mean this is, that's a nefarious thing to do to someone, but it's, it's not a career.

[Nick Bryant]

It couldn't happen to a nicer guy though.

[Podcast Host]

Peter. It was, I guess back in the day you would lose your career, but something like, you know, you know, engaging in sex or you know, I guess with an underage person, there's no coming back from that. It is the worst of all evil. So if you can get someone doing this, then you can control them, you know, into perpetuity.

[Nick Bryant]

I was able to get a hold of one of the, I was able to Spend some time with one of the blackmail photographers for the Franklin scandal. And they were somewhat unctuous. I mean, that vocation is not forged with integrity. But I got to know him, and

[Podcast Host]

this is Rusty Nelson.

[Nick Bryant]

His name is Rusty Nelson. And I asked him, how does this work? Because I was trying to get my mind around it. It was, it was so big, and I was trying to, to see. And he said to me, it's. And I've used this analogy many times. He said, once you're compromised, it's like you're on a yacht. And it's a beautiful yacht and it's a beautiful day, and you can have anything you want if you're on the yacht. But if you decide to get off the yacht, the people on the yacht are going to make sure that you drown. Yeah. So that's how it works. There's zero incentive for anybody to get off the yacht.

[Podcast Host]

That makes sense. Now, this dark, malignant intelligence committee that's sort of basically getting blackmail on people, do you think that it belongs to one specific branch of the government? Is it just a shadowy sort of cabal that exists within the government? Is it named? Is it an operation? Is there some type of label to put on it?

[Nick Bryant]

You know, some people call it the deep state. Some people call it the military intelligence complex. I called generally a dark, malignant corner of intelligence. Henry Herbert Hoover blackmailed people forever. I mean, he had files on everybody. People were frightened of Edgar Hoover, J. Edgar Hoover.

[Podcast Host]

And do you have an example of one of those?

[Nick Bryant]

I mean, he had files on Frank Sinatra, he had files on jfk, he had files on rfk. I mean, he had files on just about everybody that he didn't like, and even people that he liked, he had files on. So with him, he was blackmailing people for years. And according to Evelyn Lincoln, who was JFK's secretary, and people dispute this, but according to her, Kennedy did not want Johnson on the ticket in 1960 when he ran for, for president, but Hoover blackmailed him into taking Johnson on and

[Podcast Host]

was going to expose one of his affairs or something.

[Nick Bryant]

JFK had a lot to expose.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Nick Bryant]

Now, some people say that that's true, some people say it's not. But given the dynamics of JFK and given the dynamics of J. Edgar Hoover, I think it's entirely possible.

[Podcast Host]

Well, as I understand, I mean, JFK seems to have a. You know, he's a philanderer and likes women, and I think he has confirmed relationships with Marilyn Monroe, Judy Campbell, and, you know, so that coming out, especially in that time in the 60s would have been, you know, a death sentence for his career. That makes a lot of sense. So this guy, Lawrence King gets this deal and they basically say, okay, we're going to put you into political office, we're going to put you this credit union. What do you think happens from there? Again, this is conjecture, but just kind of paint the picture.

[Nick Bryant]

He all of a sudden starts to run this credit union that's for lower socioeconomic people in northern Omaha. But then he starts driving really expensive sports cars. He starts living in really expensive homes. He has a penthouse in like a luxury apartment building in Omaha. He has a number of apartments. He's flying to Washington D.C. just about every week. And that credit union is supposed to have $2.5 million in it and his salary is supposed to be $20,000 a year. So.

[Podcast Host]

Interesting.

[Nick Bryant]

So he was given carte blanche to do whatever he wanted. And when these social service people came to those senators and said if the King is trafficking children, they'd get. They gave the senators reports that they had that they also given to federal and state law enforcement that had been ignored. So these, the Senate committee started looking at that and they hired an amazing investigator named Gary Caradori. And he was like, I've got everything that Gary Caradori got. I've got his, his daily logs, I've got the flight receipts that he found. I got his interviews. I mean, I got everything that Gary Carradori had. And, and he was an amazing investigator. And he was actually. And the FBI was working very, very hard to cover this up. Just like we've seen the Department of Justice cover up Epstein. If, if victims came forward to Caradori, the FBI immediately put heat on. And that's thoroughly documented. And actually there was a perpetrator that wanted to do a deal with the senators because they had him dead to rights as a. And the FBI, according to an affidavit that I had, the FBI threatened to kill him. Yes. If. If he didn't keep his head low.

[Podcast Host]

And how do those threats come in? Is it written in choice words or is it like, hey, we're going to

[Nick Bryant]

take you out with the Franklin scandal. These FBI agents were really dirty and there wasn't, there wasn't much diplomacy going on there.

[Podcast Host]

And they get a tip from some higher brass that says, hey, this guy's actually an asset, you know, leave him alone. Is that kind of why the COVID up FBI?

[Nick Bryant]

There were some agents in the FBI that were told to cover this up.

[Podcast Host]

Got it.

[Nick Bryant]

To make sure that. Because with the Franklin scandal. If the dominoes had started to fall in Omaha, they would have fallen all the way to Washington, D.C. so there were people very high in the government, in the Department of Justice that said this has to be covered up.

[Podcast Host]

So Carador's investigation, what does he ultimately uncover? What are some of like the main kind of smoking gun moments that he finds?

[Nick Bryant]

Kory finds other victims than the ones that originally came forward, and he videotapes them. And he's a dynamo. I've got his leads list that has approximately 60 victims. It has like 325 people that are involved in Franklin one way or the other. But his leads list has like 60 victims. And my job was to find these victims and get them to talk to me. That was. That was really difficult because some of them, this system becomes. It's an amazing system. You get a kid that's really young, you repeatedly them turn them onto drugs, and then at a certain point, they lose their youthful marketability, and then they're just expunged. So you end up with a young adult that's probably a drug addict or

[Podcast Host]

an alcoholic, likely has mental health issues,

[Nick Bryant]

big time mental health issues, and they go on to commit crimes and compromise their own credibility, or they have a lot of psychiatric problems that compromise their

[Podcast Host]

own credit, and then their testimonies can sort of be thrown out.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah. So with the Franklin scandal, there were six victims that came forward. Kira already got four to come forward. And there are two others that came forward, and there were two grand juries. There was a state grand jury, and there was a federal grand jury, the state grand jury. And I don't know if your viewers or listeners are familiar with how grand juries work, but they're very easy to corrupt. There was a New York state judge that said special prosecutors of grand juries have so much power over grand juries that they could get them to indict a ham sandwich.

[Podcast Host]

What is the difference between a grand jury and a regular jury?

[Nick Bryant]

Okay, so with a grand jury, a special prosecutor is chosen, and grand jurors, I mean, like, when we think of grand jury, we think it's like a decree from the guise of jurisprudence.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it sounds like a greater deal

[Nick Bryant]

than a regular jury, but with a grand jury, grand jurors are just people that have shown up for jury duty and they've been funneled to a grand jury. And a special prosecutor is chosen. And they. These are just citizens. They don't know anything about this case. And the grand. The special prosecutor is responsible for calling witnesses and then showing the grand Jurors evidence. So essentially what the special prosecutor wants, the special prosecutor gets in the Epstein grand jury. I dissected it on a podcast of mine a couple weeks ago and I show just how corrupt that grand jury was it. Because in the Epstein case, the Palm Beach Police department had the statements of five victims, but they knew of 17 others. So there were 23 victims. And the woman, the special prosecutor was Lana Belovic. She called two minors, that was it, just two. And then skewered them. And. And they called them prostitutes. I mean, and one of them had been by Jeffrey Epstein when she was 14 years old and she was 16 years old at that time. So. So that grand jury declared that Jeffrey Epstein had the single minor. So that was. And. And the grand jury in Omaha, the state grand jury declared that Lawrence King had the single minor nor the cadre of around him. And the federal grand jury also declared that. And then there were a couple of kids and I don't know how they did this, but it's pretty amazing given all the abuse that they endured. They wouldn't recant.

[Podcast Host]

The.

[Nick Bryant]

The FBI and Department of justice coming down on them really hard. They wouldn't recant. One of them was Alicia Owen and she had been trafficked since she was an adolescent and she would not recant her abuse. And she was indicted on eight counts of perjury from the state grand jury and eight counts of perjury from the federal grand jury. She was looking at 200 years in prison. We're talking at this point she's 21 years old. We're talking about a 21 year old looking at 200 years in prison for

[Podcast Host]

being the victim of a.

[Nick Bryant]

For. For saying I was abused. And I'm not going to say I wasn't abused.

[Podcast Host]

And so what is the perjury on the grounds of that the ground. The grand jury found no malfeasance on King's part.

[Nick Bryant]

Yes, that. That she lied.

[Podcast Host]

So therefore she must.

[Nick Bryant]

That she was. That she was trafficked by King. She was repeatedly by the Omaha police chief, and that she saw the publisher of the Omaha World Herald, which is the big magazine in Nebraska, 8 or 9 year olds. So not only was it to protect that cadre of power, but it was also to protect the Washington D.C. side where Craig Spence was using these kids to compromise bigger fish.

[Podcast Host]

Now, the element to the Omaha scandal, I guess actually a question I have regarding Omaha specifically, why was it Omaha? Is that where King was from or was that a place where they could get along with their abuse and not be found out as easily.

[Nick Bryant]

This is interesting. Stratcom is the brain of our national defense system. And it's in Omaha, it's outside of Omaha, Nebraska. And according to sources that I have, Stratcom, I mean, that's where Bush was taken right after 9 11. And I believe that that's where he met Warren Buffett.

[Podcast Host]

That's where who met Warren Buffett?

[Nick Bryant]

Where Bush Jr. Met Warren Buffett. That they were. They were both taken to StratCom at 9, during 9 11. StratCom is the brain of our national defense. And there's a high concentration of CI people in that area because of Stratcom. They have to keep that area clean. And I think now I've seen various municipalities let walk. We saw it with, with Epstein. But the Snow Killings is about a network outside of Detroit, which we can get into later.

[Podcast Host]

And.

[Nick Bryant]

And the very popular docu series the Keepers was about a network in Baltimore that. And. And both these networks had connections to law enforcement and the Franklin network. I mean, they were pandering kids to the police chief.

[Podcast Host]

Now it wasn't. Who was it? Charles Manson was at Boys Town at

[Nick Bryant]

a certain time briefly there. That's. That's what the lore is. I haven't been able to nail that down. But yeah, that's.

[Podcast Host]

Is that a strange coincidence to you, or do you think that there's another layer to that that makes it more interesting?

[Nick Bryant]

I have no idea.

[Podcast Host]

It is peculiar that he happens to be at the same orphanage.

[Nick Bryant]

Steve McQueen was there too, so.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, interesting.

[Nick Bryant]

So who knows, right?

[Podcast Host]

So I. So let's say I'm with you. I'm like, okay, there's definitely, you know, money, financial crimes. That's documented, for sure. We have all of these victims coming forward that under heavy scrutiny, still maintain that there was sexual misconduct, sex trafficking. Now, the element that I guess is probably the most pivotal here is this idea of blackmail and political extortion. Now, how do we know that in this whole operation that there was political extortion specifically in Washington, D.C. what evidence is there of that?

[Nick Bryant]

There's a tremendous amount of evidence. The Washington Times ran a number of articles on the blackmail that was going down at Craig Spence's home. Craig Spence had a house that was wired for Audiovision blackmail. I wrote a book called Confessions of a DC Madam. The Politics of Sex Lies in blackmail. And it was from the perspective of Henry Vincent. He ran a gay escort service, and he would provide King and Spence with escorts, with gay escorts. And Henry describes this afternoon where Spence summons him because Spence was this almighty power Broker. And he would summon Henry and Spence. And we're talking mid-1980s. Paid up to. Gave Henry up to 20, $25,000 a month for male escorts. So he was using a lot of escorts, but Henry is. So Henry is summoned and he sees King and Spans. And both these guys are malevolent. They're. They're. They're evil creatures. And King is talking about sadism with children, and they're talking about how much power they have and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And Henry is from West Virginia, very naive guy, and he's a mortician. He is the last guy that you would expect to run a gay escort service. With Henry, it's kind of interesting. He went to. He had. He comes from a background in West Virginia where people are, you know, getting bit with snakes and stuff like that. Poisonous snakes. Because there's a line, there's a passage in Mark where if you have faith in Christ, you can speak in tongues and. And withstand the poison of snakes or poisonous snakes. I don't think that that passage is kind of tacked on. I don't think that that passage was added to, like the 5th or 6th century. But nonetheless, there have been a lot of snake handlers in Appalachia that have been killed because of that passage.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Nick Bryant]

So Henry comes from that kind of background where, you know, he was young and gay and he was repressed. And then he met some other morticians, gay morticians. And they would go to this, what this is Chippendale's version of like a gay scene. And Henry met one of the dancers and kind of befriended him. And the dancers said that this guy who was dying was willing to sell his escort service. And Henry just kind of on a lark, said, well, how much? And the guy said, I. I think it was 10 or 13,000, something like that. And Henry said, I'll buy it.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. So he gets into snake handling too? No, in a different way.

[Nick Bryant]

So, but Henry is a very, very, very smart guy. And then so he opens the Washington Yellow Pages. This is back when we had yellow Pages. And then he starts calling escort services. And most escort services are fly by night operations, so they don't pay their phone bill. So when Henry would encounter a phone, like a disconnection notice, he would call the. The phone company and say, I will pay the arrears if you give me the number. So Henry grew this little escort service into a huge escort service in Washington D.C. in Washington D.C. he's there with King and Spence, and they've got like a little Sugar bowl of coke and Spence is doing coke and Spence is like, has seismic narcissism. I mean, if we're talking on a scale of 1 to 10 as far as seismic narcissism, he's probably a 12. So all of a sudden Spence starts asking Henry about his life and. And Henry thinks that he's witnessing like the Red Sea parting. I mean, Spence has only cared about his hookers and treated him like. So Spencer's asking about his life and where he grew up and what college he went to to. For to study mortuary sciences. And then he starts asking about his escort service and how much he makes and how many escorts he has. And then King is sitting there with a malignant smirk. And at a certain point, Spence gets up and signals to Henry to follow him. He goes into a closet and at the back of the closet there's a secret panel. And then he opens a secret panel and there's a big two way mirror that's in the living room, that's facing the living room. But then there's all these monitors. And then he hits a couple of the monitors or one of the mon buttons on the monitors. And Henry is talking about his escort service. And Spence essentially says, I blackmail people for a living and consider yourself blackmailed. So. And there's other accounts.

[Podcast Host]

And how do we know that that case, like where did that's that that anecdote come from?

[Nick Bryant]

That comes from Henry.

[Podcast Host]

What's up guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because I just want to state the obvious. You're not going to hire a chiropractor to do brain surgery. And if you're gonna go fight in the octagon, you wouldn't hire a guy that watches a lot of ufc. And if you have a personal injury case, you're not going to just like hire your buddy that's good with contracts because you know that when you're hurt, it's because someone else wants was negligent. You don't want just, you know, lawyer vibes. You want real lawyers. And that's where Morgan and Morgan comes in. They are America's largest injury law firm with over a hundred offices nationwide and more than 1,000 lawyers. Crazy thing, they've recovered over $30 billion for over 500,000 clients. They've got a real track record of fighting to get people full and fair compensation. So if you are ever injured, you can check out Morgan and Morgan and their fee is free unless they win. Yes, free. You literally don't pay anything unless they win. Your case. That's how confident Morgan Morgan is that they can get compensation for you and your injuries. So for more information, go to for the people.comgagon that is f o r the people.com g a g n o n or dial pound law that is pound 529 and let them know that you got sent by the people here at the campsite. Also, this is a paid advertisement. Now let's get back to the show. What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because I just got a cheat code that I want to tell you guys, all right? I am at an age in my life where unfortunately, a normal night out has consequences. Not like, not even crazy drinking. Like, just a couple of drinks and the next day I'm wrecked. Like, my sleep score is bad. My head feels bad.

[Nick Bryant]

On my whoop.

[Podcast Host]

It tells me like, hey, you slept like crap. And that's why I use Cheers Restore. All right? This is basically a dual action after alcohol aid that supports both my brain and my liver. And it's created after research on a compound called dhm, designed for how alcohol actually affects your body. Before, I would just, like, drink a bunch of water and hope, but now Cheers Restore actually gives you the actual chemicals to make you feel better. It's been on Shark Tank, it's sold over 30,000 stores, and it's backed by doctors and clinicians. And the promise is pretty simple. You're going to feel 50% better the next day or, or your money back. All you need to do is take three capsules after your last drink or before bed. And this isn't for going crazy, all right? But if you're just like a normal adult having a few drinks, it really helps. So the viewers of this channel, great news for you. You're going to get 20% off when you use the code camp. That's C A m p. @cheershealth.com go to cheershealth.com, use the code camp, get 20% off. You're going to go out, have just as much fun and feel way better the next morning to get after it and tell them the good folks over at Camp Gagnon sent you and let's get back to the show. And so now, like, what happens to all this footage? Like, all of these politicians are getting blackmailed. And I also want to know kind of who and which politicians get blackmailed. But this seems like that would be very clear evidence, right? Like, you know, you have a wiretap AV system inside your home with two way mirror or One way mirrors where what happens to all of that equipment is that brought up in the, you know, the trial?

[Nick Bryant]

Well, look at Epstein. The FBI drilled Epstein's safe and took out hundreds to thousands of DVDs. And a lot of them were. But a number of them were probably blackmail material. And what's happened to them? Yeah, I mean, nothing's happened to them. And I've filed to freedom of information requests, not for the DVDs, but for reports on the DVDs. After Epstein died, the Fed said his case was closed. So I, I filed my FOIAs and I just wanted reports on the DVDs. And then I was told that the case was ongoing. And then. And then like six months later, I filed a FOIA and I was told that the case was ongoing. So they're never, ever. I mean, and that's where this stuff goes. I mean, it. It ends up in a black hole.

[Podcast Host]

But the Franklin case, specifically, like, was that ever brought up in the trial? Like, oh, there is, you know.

[Nick Bryant]

No, no, that was never. No, it was never. It never went that far.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. And so which politicians get compromised? And how exactly does a politician get compromised? Right. Like what? Like, I'm assuming not all these guys are so, like, how does that happen?

[Nick Bryant]

In December, Tennessee Representative Tim Burchette did something unbelievably courageous. He said that a lot of my colleagues are being compromised in honey traps.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, he said this?

[Nick Bryant]

A U.S. congressman said it in December.

[Podcast Host]

And can you explain a honey trap? For anyone that doesn't know, a honey

[Nick Bryant]

trap is where people get compromised sexually.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

A U. S. Congress. I've been waiting. I've been in this world for 22 years, man, and I've been waiting for a representative. Now, there was another guy that had said that, but he clearly had some problems, so he lacked credibility. But this guy, he's. I mean, he said it, and he's still in the House of Representatives, so he's got to be squeaky clean.

[Podcast Host]

So you, you know, Lawrence King is in D.C. he invites you to a party at Spence's house, and you go over there and there's young people. Does he say explicitly this is how it works?

[Nick Bryant]

Okay, so there's the straight up parties where everybody's on the yacht that's invited, but then there's the parties where it's like a political, you know, it's kind of like your Washington D.C. party and people are getting lubricated with alcohol, talking about politics or whatever people do in Washington D.C. and then at a certain point at like, maybe 10 o' clock or 11 o', clock, someone fires up a joint, someone breaks out a line of coke or something sexually explicit happens. And the people that are freaked out by that split, but then the people that want to continue the party, they're going to be compromised. They're going to end up on the yacht.

[Podcast Host]

And do they know that they're being compromised? No, they have no idea.

[Nick Bryant]

And that's the thing. Craig Spence was getting a lot of media and Jeffrey Epstein was getting a lot of media. And you cannot be a blackmailer if you're getting a lot of media. So their ability to blackmail people was quite negligent. Was, was essentially had diminished exponentially because they could. Everybody knew what they were about because of all the, the press that they were getting.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

So they were expandable. Spence himself and Ritz Carlton in Boston, he wore a, a tuxedo and took an overdose of nortripylene, which is an antidepressant, you think? And I do believe that he killed himself.

[Podcast Host]

Interesting.

[Nick Bryant]

I believe that Spence was given a, an ultimatum. You can kill yourself or we can't kill you, depending upon, you know, which way do you want to go? And I think Spence just went. And Spence did have aids.

[Podcast Host]

Interesting. So he was going to die short order.

[Nick Bryant]

He was going to die anyway. And plus Spence, like Epstein, had a huge ego and a big mouth and there's no way that they could let those guys continue to run around.

[Podcast Host]

Now, which politicians, if you know, if there's any that are public or that you've already written about, you think were compromised in the Franklin scandal specifically?

[Nick Bryant]

Well, okay, Larry Craig was in Washington D.C. for 25 years. He was a, a hyper conservative, uber conservative from Idaho. And he, I think he probably had the worst, the worst record for voting against gay rights of anybody in, in the Senate. Henry Vincent, the guy who I was just telling you about, who ran the gay escort service, he provided Craig with gay escorts. One that Kirby Dick, who's a pretty renowned documentary maker, made a film called Outrage about how gay politicians voting against gay rights. And Craig was featured in that. And, and there were other escorts that Henry hadn't sent to Craig that were, that were interviewed. So Craig was in Washington D.C. for 25 years, first as a, a House of Representatives guy and then, and then as a senator, totally compromised. And, and this is the kicker with Craig. He was in a bathroom in the Minneapolis International Airport. And now there's a signaling that gays do and, and like bathrooms where they'll slap their foot in the stall and then, and if the other dudes had to try, then they'll, I guess, you know, maybe he'll slap his foot or say, you know, whatever.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I think it was like a back in the day thing. We needed to be more surreptitious about it, so.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, this was, I think, like 10 years ago. Yeah. Oh, wow. So Craig responded to this vice squad. Vice squad cop slapping his foot, and then they arrested him. Now, now, how hard would it be? I mean, the guy's trying to pick up a guy in a bathroom in an airport. How hard would it be to compromise that guy?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I mean, it seems like an insatiable desire.

[Nick Bryant]

I mean, a kid with a smartphone doing an after school project could probably compromise Larry Craig.

[Podcast Host]

Now, do you think he was compromised with audio visual blackmail or just based off of the testimony of the escort service?

[Nick Bryant]

I mean, I believe that he was. Henry said that he was giving Craig escorts. These other guys saying that Craig was getting escorts, so. And then he's trying to pick people up in bathrooms. I mean.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

I'm from Minneapolis, and I was sitting on a commode once and some guy was slapping his foot next to. In the. In the stall over. And I'm just glad I. I thought he had a neurological disorder. I felt bad for him, but I'm really glad I didn't say, could I. Could I help you? So. But yeah, Craig was definitely compromised. I'll give you another example, please.

[Podcast Host]

And I guess specifically with maybe Kings underage escorts, if you know any of them.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, I'll give you an underage example. Dennis Hastert was in Washington, D.C. for many years. He was the speaker of the House from 1999 to 2006. Constitutionally, that's the third most powerful person in the country. Now, he had a history of boys going back 40 years, at least 40 years. And what happened with him? He was a strong arm specialist in. When he was in the House, I mean, he was the Senate, the House Majority Leader. And like, he made sure that you voted the way that he wanted you to vote. And, and what happened with him? There was a FBI whistleblower named Sabel Edmonds, and she talked about the FBI knowing about Craig doing this type of stuff when he was speaker of the House. So it's not like law enforcement, federal law enforcement didn't know about this. So Craig had been little boys all

[Podcast Host]

these years, and that's confirmed?

[Nick Bryant]

Absolutely.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Nick Bryant]

And what happened? He. Okay, so he left the House. And then he became. He had a very, very lucrative. I mean, he was doing a lot of lobbying with various countries, including Turkey. And he was making millions and millions of dollars. Now, I don't know why he got taken down, but he got taken down. Someone was blackmailing him. One of his victims was blackmailing him, and Craig was paying him off. And the FBI chose to go after Craig instead of the blackmailer. So my thoughts on that are Craig got too greedy. So I think he was tossed off the yacht because he got too greedy.

[Podcast Host]

And where is he now? Is he in prison?

[Nick Bryant]

No, he's in Washington or he's in Michigan. He did go to prison for a while, but then he. Actually, he's in Illinois, and he won't return my calls.

[Podcast Host]

You went to prison for these crimes?

[Nick Bryant]

Well, he went to prison for financial manipulation so he could pay off his blackmailer.

[Podcast Host]

Interesting. Wow. So.

[Nick Bryant]

But here's the thing with that. If the FBI really wanted to shut that down, it could have, because it. The FBI could have gone to the blackmailer and said, if you continue to blackmail Dennis Haster, we're gonna put your ass in prison forever.

[Podcast Host]

Right. They could have protected him, but extortion is technically illegal.

[Nick Bryant]

But they didn't, because.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

And we don't know why, but my belief is that, I mean, he was making millions of. Millions of dollars of lobbyist. I just think that he had gotten too big for his britches and was someone. Someone high up, probably wanted a cut. And, you know, he said, no, I'm. I'm Dennis Hastert. I can do what I want. And then. And then he. And then he found out that he was Dennis Hastert, but he couldn't do what he wanted.

[Podcast Host]

Interesting. Now, as far as, like, who's really pulling the strings and kind of the. The deep state that we talked about a little bit before, I know it's probably pretty nebulous and shrouded, but I'm curious, like, for someone like King, who is procuring children to then deliver to politicians, is he being paid for this, or is he just given impunity to do what he wants and also embezzle?

[Nick Bryant]

I mean, he's embezzling money. He's. He's embezzling millions of dollars.

[Podcast Host]

His payment.

[Nick Bryant]

And he's not getting audited, so his

[Podcast Host]

payment is just, hey, we're going to look the other way.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah. And I think that some of that money went to the Contras, too.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, really?

[Nick Bryant]

I can't prove it, but I've got accounts. I. I didn't say it in the book there. When you write a book, there's things that, you know and then there's things that you can prove.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

And when I write a book, I only go with what I can prove. But I think that's some of that. According to some sources, that money was getting diverted to the Contras.

[Podcast Host]

Interesting. And Spence, the same thing was given impunity or was he being paid directly?

[Nick Bryant]

Spence was given. Was making tons of money as a lobbyist.

[Podcast Host]

Got it.

[Nick Bryant]

And whoever he was lobbying for, there was some kind of mechanism that was giving him his. That was paying for his lifestyle.

[Podcast Host]

Now, once a politician is compromised, certainly King and Spence, if they are doing the blackmailing, the compromising, they would have leverage over these politicians. Who else would have leverage over them? Is it like, who were. Who were King and Spence working for? Does this go back kind of to that. That dark corner?

[Nick Bryant]

Okay, I'll give you Larry King and Craig Spence are from blue collar families.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. Yeah, Larry, Larry King. Not that Larry King. Yeah.

[Nick Bryant]

Not that Larry. Lawrence King and Craig Spencer from blue collar families. They don't. They're not from money, they're not from power. Jeffrey Epstein was from a blue collar family. Not a lot of money, not a lot of power. But these guys cannot be blackmailing the most powerful men in the world without an organization behind them.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

They would be taken out that says if you touch King, if you touch Spence, if you touch Epstein, there's going to be retribution. That is the only way. People say Epstein was blackmailing these guys. Epstein was participating in the blackmail of these guys. But there's no way he could have pulled that off without a. An organization behind it that makes sense that would seek retribution. And that's where people make a mistake about Epstein. They. They just think that he was this lone. Him and Max were like these lone blackmailers. But there's no way they could have done that. Some of the most powerful guys in

[Podcast Host]

the world, right, and now are they trying to get the politicians to vote a specific way. Are they trying to get them to do specific foreign deals? Like what kind of pressure and all the above.

[Nick Bryant]

I look at the. The United States spends $877 billion on the military. I mean, that's what we know about.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, there's black budgets and things like that.

[Nick Bryant]

And we're like, the next 10 countries don't spend. We're talking Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Isra. The next 10 countries don't spend $877 million. So obviously, I believe they're getting compromised by whatever you want to call the military intelligence complex. That's the military intelligence complex. The deep state or What I say, some dark, malignant corner of intelligence.

[Podcast Host]

Is it possible that there's multiple intelligence and blackmailing organizations that are occurring simultaneously? Like, is it possible that there's, you know, some type of Russian blackmail operation that's happening and a Chinese blackmail operation and, you know, all these different governments or maybe even private individuals, billionaires, trying to all do their own blackmailing operations?

[Nick Bryant]

I think that there's a lot of blackmailing going on.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Nick Bryant]

Because I, I, I just don't think. And where people make a mistake with Epstein is they think, well, Epstein was massaged. But there's no way that the CIA is going to let the Mossad compromise American politicians on American soil without getting a cut of that intelligence. Well, maybe they are just not going to. It's just not going to happen.

[Podcast Host]

So it's at least joint.

[Nick Bryant]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Right. But I think maybe that's an, I think an oversight that maybe some people make is that they think all of these schemes and every blackmailing operation that happens in the United States throughout time has all happened because of the CIA or because of Russia or because of Israel. I think it's probably more likely, in my opinion at least, that it's probably many different competing blackmailing factions that are trying to compromise people.

[Nick Bryant]

It's very easy to compromise these guys. These guys have a very potent psychological alchemy of lust and arrogance. And nothing makes people stupid like lust and arrogance. As I've often said, if love is blind, lust is deft down and quadriplegic.

[Podcast Host]

Right. That's a good way to put it.

[Nick Bryant]

So you've got. Look at Bill Clinton. He's a very, very intelligent guy. I mean, he's an ethical eunuch, but he's a very, very intelligent guy. And why is he gonna let. Why is he going to jeopardize his presidency with Monica Lewinsky? Yeah, because he's pathologic. He's got.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it is a pathology, I think, at a certain point. I think that a lot of these guys probably have that. And maybe they might not be interested in, you know, young children, but maybe they're interested in a young woman who happens be to, happens to be 16. And then they're able to be like, hey, actually, that woman you you were with was actually underage, and now you're compromised. Now, do you think that after their compromise, they tell them, like, they send them a letter and say, hey, remember that party? Actually, you're in trouble? Or do you think they request something and say, and if you don't, then maybe that party will be Found out.

[Nick Bryant]

I mean, all you gotta do is give the guy a picture. You know, that's not rocket science. Just all you gotta do is give the guy a picture. And, and they can figure it out. They, they can definitely figure it out at that point.

[Podcast Host]

So now let's just button up the Franklin scandal. Obviously, you know, everyone went to jail and the victims got justice, right?

[Nick Bryant]

No, nobody got justice. And all those, all those perps were exonerated. And ALICIA Owen got nine to 15 years for perjury.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

And the authorities really tried to destroy her. They put her in solid, this kid, 21 year old kid. They put her in solitary for two years. I mean, they really tried to destroy her. And that, that jury that found her guilty was heavily manipulated. I get into it in my book. Heavily manipulated. But they were still out for three days.

[Podcast Host]

And then the investigator that did all the research to interview all these victims, he ends up dying in a plane crash.

[Nick Bryant]

His plane blew up over Lee County, Illinois, after he met with the blackmail photographer.

[Podcast Host]

I wanted to button up that conversation as well. The blackmail photographer, Rusty Nelson, how does that work? So King or Spence, they find this guy and they say, hey, we're going to have a party. Can you stand behind this mirror and take photographs?

[Nick Bryant]

Is that how it goes with Rusty? He was into photography and they gave him an opportunity to be a photographer.

[Podcast Host]

Was he also compromised? Because if he's taking compromising photos, he must be compromised as well.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, he's been busted for God.

[Podcast Host]

So they find this photographer who's also.

[Nick Bryant]

They say, hey, but he got busted after, after the Franklin scam. But he took lots of material and

[Podcast Host]

like potentially before, you know, allegedly. I don't want to speculate too, too strong.

[Nick Bryant]

I don't know if he did that before he got hooked up with Lawrence King, but he certainly did after he got hooked up with Lawrence King.

[Podcast Host]

Right. Well, if I'm going to hire a photographer for blackmail, I would some way have collateral on them because they're going to have access to all the photographs and be able to make some type of.

[Nick Bryant]

There was another photographer. I was never able to find him.

[Podcast Host]

And now did Rusty face consequences for his involvement?

[Nick Bryant]

No. Because according to state and federal law enforcement, not a single child was abused.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

But the FBI really put the. I mean, scared Rusty. I mean, he was living in a. A farmhouse. And I saw what that farmhouse looks like. Someone took like a machine gun and just sprayed it.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, really? So they tried to take him out?

[Nick Bryant]

I don't think they tried to take him out, but they tried to make sure that he left the state.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Nick Bryant]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

I'm curious why they wouldn't try to take him out as well. Because he's as dangerous. Maybe not. Actually, no. The investigator is probably more dangerous than the.

[Nick Bryant]

The invol. The investigator was going to break it wide open.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Nick Bryant]

I think Rusty had a finite number of pictures. I think that King was very circumspect about making sure that Rusty didn't have pictures. But Rusty was able to smuggle some out and I believe he gave them all the Gary Carridori in Chicago and that. And Corridor is flying back from Chicago to Lincoln, Nebraska, and his plane exploded over Lee County, Illinois.

[Podcast Host]

Now he was flying his own aircraft.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Well, now I guess if you're doing an investigation on potentially, you know, very powerful people doing, you know, getting blackmailed, maybe don't fly your own plane. You know, I wonder if there's a, a train or a commercial jet. You could have taken the thing with

[Nick Bryant]

him where he made a mistake. He thought he was too high profile.

[Podcast Host]

Corydori. Yeah, he thought, oh, I'm already on the record. I was assigned to this by the investigative board. They're not going to do anything.

[Nick Bryant]

You're not going to kill me.

[Podcast Host]

Gotcha. That makes sense. Now, there is an element to this we had discussed briefly before, and I thought you had really interesting thoughts on it. Some of the victims from the Franklin case alleged that there was what was called ritual abuse.

[Nick Bryant]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

And I believe they mentioned that there were pentagrams involved and that there was some type of satanic element. And I'm curious what your thoughts are on that ripple of the story. The.

[Nick Bryant]

According to Wikipedia and the FBI, ritual abuse has never existed, nor will it ever exist. As I said earlier, the FBI categorizes serial killers as ritualistic and un. Ritualistic. So it's kind of weird that it doesn't categorize as ritualistic and non ritualistic. But anyway, there are a number of examples, scores and scores of examples of ritual abuse. My thoughts on that are. It's a, it's a relatively small part of the Franklin scandal, but my thoughts on that are there is a group of occultists that are very, very dark and their highest sacrament is the destruction of innocence. They're like the ideal Christian sacrament is the preservation and the cultivation of innocence. But with these guys, it's the destruction of innocence. That's. That's their sacrament.

[Podcast Host]

I see. So they get involved in these circles allegedly and they, you know, sort of conduct that destruction of innocence.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah, I don't know. How someone. I'm. I'm sure that it happens incrementally or maybe some guys are just outright evil and into it. I. I don't know.

[Podcast Host]

That makes sense. Now, do you think that that element of the story is important or do you think it kind of disrides the whole thing as being a part of this satanic panic spread and kind of throws the whole thing out the window?

[Nick Bryant]

I mean, if people read my book, the Franklin Scandal, I've got plenty of documentation. And with ritual, ritual abuse, I mean, I've got police reports on it. I've got notes from a psychiatric hospital on it. There's. There's a tremendous amount of literature on ritual abuse if someone really wants to understand it. It's very strange. The Wikipedia talks about people ritualistically murdering people. I mean, that's in W. So people can ritualistically murder people, but that yet they're not going to ritualistically children. It's. It's kind of contradictory.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that's, that's interesting.

[Nick Bryant]

And I will say this. With the satanic panic, it swung very far and then when it came back, it swung very far the other way. So. But there are examples of. There was a priest in Ohio some years back who ritualistically murdered a nun. I mean, like, you know, put like five like daggers in her, in, in the form of a pentagram.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, wow.

[Nick Bryant]

I mean, it happens, right? It's out there. I mean, people are evil, can be evil, right?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. It just is an interesting part of the whole story to me to think, you know, were these guys in some way, you know, aware of this, or were there just other occult people that were involved and why were they doing this? Like if they were just straight up, you know, like, why are they also involving themselves in the occult element?

[Nick Bryant]

It just seems, I think that some, some of them were involved in the occult and with King for sure, and we're into the destruction of innocence and then some are just.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah, I think that's probably true. That makes sense.

[Nick Bryant]

I mean, that's what I've concluded.

[Podcast Host]

Now I wanted to ask you also about an individual, a child that was abducted named Johnny Gosh.

[Nick Bryant]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Who has a really interesting kind of part with this type of topic. So Johnny Gosh was abducted in the late 70s and actually in 1982 it was 82, yeah. Oh, interesting. I thought it was 70. Excuse me. And disappears. And do you believe that there was any connection with this specific case? Where was Johnny Gosh abducted from?

[Nick Bryant]

West Des Moines.

[Podcast Host]

Do you think he was connected to Some type of trafficking, or do you think it was just a.

[Nick Bryant]

Okay, so Paul Banassi, one of the Franklin victims, said that he took part in Johnny Gosh abduction. America's Most Wanted did five segments on the Johnny Gosh abduction. And Paul Sparrow, the producer, believes that Paul Banasi knew Johnny Gosh after Johnny Gosh was abducted. I found the house where they were there. Well, actually, America's Most Wanted found the house. Paul told America's Most Wanted that there was a chamber below the house where the kids would be stashed. And it was near an elephant shaped rock. And then America's Most Wanted went there.

[Podcast Host]

And whose house was this?

[Nick Bryant]

The guy who owned it at that point. His name was Charles Couch. And they found a chamber beneath the house where the kids would carve their initials. Now, I found Charles Crouch. He's living in New Mexico. And I tried to alert law enforcement to him, but. And one guy seemed like he was into it, but then he just backed away from it. But Charles Crouch has been kids since the early 60s to decide his wife's brother. I mean, and. And then he ended up in Colorado where he bought that house. And he was a prison guard. Now, you cannot be a prison guard and be a felon. You just. You can't do it. So. And then he fled Colorado with warrants out for his. With warrants. And. But then all of a sudden, they were lifted. H. And I did a criminal background check on him, and there's no. There isn't one count of child abuse in his. In his criminal history.

[Podcast Host]

Interesting.

[Nick Bryant]

In Colorado or in New Mexico. And he's in Carlsbad, New Mexico now. We could. We could go visit him if you. If you want to visit him.

[Podcast Host]

I'm okay. I think I'm actually. I think I'm busy that weekend.

[Nick Bryant]

Okay.

[Podcast Host]

But that's. Chamber was part of the testimony from Benassi.

[Nick Bryant]

Paul Benassi told America's Most Wanted that there was a chamber beneath the house.

[Podcast Host]

Now, this individual is interesting. And he was a victim of the Franklin scandal. He came and he testified. Did he speak with the main investigator?

[Nick Bryant]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

And so he was a victim and then later was complicit in sort of the, you know, capture and sort of recruitment of other children.

[Nick Bryant]

Yes, he was these both with Epstein and with the Franklin scandal, the kids become scavengers. Like Epstein would pay someone 200 if they brought another kid. Right. And that was the same thing with. With the Franklin scan.

[Podcast Host]

So he testifies that he. I shouldn't say testifies. He, I guess, admits that he captured Johnny Gosh and was a part of his.

[Nick Bryant]

That he. That he was part of the Johnny Gosh abduction.

[Podcast Host]

And then he was with Johnny Gosh in the basement of this home afterwards.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And then his testimony says there's a underground chamber. And then they find that there is some type of.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, he told America's Most Wanted that there was an underground chamber. And then they went there and they found an underground chamber.

[Podcast Host]

Is it possible it's just a basement or is it an underground chamber?

[Nick Bryant]

It's an underground chamber.

[Podcast Host]

I see. And did they find initials of.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah. The kids that.

[Podcast Host]

And there was no investigation afterward that?

[Nick Bryant]

No. Just like Charles Crouch doesn't have any counts of child abuse on his record when he was. He started kids in the early 60s.

[Podcast Host]

There's evidence of this. I'm assuming.

[Nick Bryant]

I've got a newspaper article on it.

[Podcast Host]

I see. So did he face jail time for any of his.

[Nick Bryant]

No.

[Podcast Host]

So but there's a news article that's saying oh this guy.

[Nick Bryant]

There's a news article. You can go to my website and check this stuff out. There's a. There's a News article from 1963 talking about him and three kids.

[Podcast Host]

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[Nick Bryant]

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[Podcast Host]

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[Nick Bryant]

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[Podcast Host]

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[Nick Bryant]

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[Podcast Host]

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[Nick Bryant]

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[Podcast Host]

part of a police investigation or just a journalist that found it.

[Nick Bryant]

It was an article about him getting indicted.

[Podcast Host]

But yet that.

[Nick Bryant]

But yet those counts were lifted.

[Podcast Host]

Bizarre.

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Do you think it's possible he was connected to intelligence or used as an asset in some way?

[Nick Bryant]

I mean how did he kids all those years? How did he have a house that had an underground chamber where kids were taken? How did. Why did he flee Colorado with warrants. Offer him. What were the warrants? We don't. We don't have any of that information.

[Podcast Host]

Bizarre.

[Nick Bryant]

And I've spent a lot of time looking into that guy and there's no child abuse on his. And his. On his police records.

[Podcast Host]

Bizarre.

[Nick Bryant]

It's pretty amazing.

[Podcast Host]

Now Johnny Gosh's mother claims that he visited her.

[Nick Bryant]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

But Much later that after the abduction, as, I guess a teenager, a young adult, he came home and saw her.

[Nick Bryant]

There's an article that was written by a CNN journalist named Thomas Lake that if people are. Want to read about it, it's. It's a pretty good article.

[Podcast Host]

So he gets abducted and just goes and sees his mother, and then that's. Do people write off that story? Is that accepted as.

[Nick Bryant]

Most people wrote her off because she's had some difficulties, but this CNN journalist felt her to be telling the truth. Felt that she was telling the truth.

[Podcast Host]

Interesting. Now, Lawrence King, the. I guess the main sort of linchpin of this entire scandal, he ends up going to prison for financial crimes.

[Nick Bryant]

Ten years. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And now is still alive. Yeah.

[Nick Bryant]

Actually, King was given like, a no show job at a BM dealership in Virginia. So the. The deal with King was keep your mouth shut and you know you'll be taken care of.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Nick Bryant]

King has tried to inveigle himself into Granville Academy, which is. It's not even a school. It takes children on field trips, Lower socioeconomic children on field trips. And he was. Tried to inveigle himself into that. I got him kicked out of that.

[Podcast Host]

You got him kicked out of it?

[Nick Bryant]

Yeah. And then he tried to invade, and then he unveiled himself into the Washington Redskins event committee. I got him kicked out of that. Then he inveigled himself into Opera Nova. That does a number of things, but it. It helps with lower socioeconomic children giving them voice lessons. I got him kicked out of that.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Nick Bryant]

Now he's in a church in Alexandria that doesn't Virginia. That doesn't want to kick him out. I've tried to get him kicked out of that, but. But that's how. That's how backwards this thing is that a journalist has to protect kids from a super predator because the feds know what kind of a predator King is.

[Podcast Host]

But he's not on any registry or anything because he has.

[Nick Bryant]

No, no, he. According to law enforcement, he's never the single kid.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. And now it seems like everyone that's been involved with this case ends up not in a good spot. Like there's, you know, countless examples of this. Victim's sibling gets killed or the journalist dies.

[Nick Bryant]

Alicia's brother was murdered. I believe that.

[Podcast Host]

I mean, there's like a laundry list of, you know, 10 to 15 people who have in some way met their demise. It seems like in, you know, some type of suspicion, there were a number

[Nick Bryant]

of people that died with the Franklin scandal.

[Podcast Host]

Now, I imagine a lot of these people are still alive. Lawrence King, you know, is still alive.

[Nick Bryant]

He's living in. Actually, I got a picture of him. He visited Omaha about two months ago. I got a picture of him, put it on Twitter.

[Podcast Host]

He must not like you.

[Nick Bryant]

Well, you know, the thing about King is I called him up.

[Podcast Host]

You spoke to him?

[Nick Bryant]

Well, I called him up, and he said he wasn't him. So the conversation. There wasn't much of an evolution with the conversation.

[Podcast Host]

Bizarre. I mean, are you. Are you. Are you worried that he might try to seek retribution against you in some way?

[Nick Bryant]

I mean, I've been a thorn in his side forever, so if there was going to be retribution against me, I think it would have come by now.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. The Franklin scandal is. Is upsetting and frustrating, but I'm glad that, you know, there's someone out there brave enough to. To do the work, actually get into it, and morbid enough to go through all the dirt. I'm grateful for all your work.

[Nick Bryant]

That individual is probably quite stupid, wouldn't you think?

[Podcast Host]

He's handsome, but he's very dumb, Extremely dumb.