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- [00:00]
Mark Gagnon
Secret societies. Who are the men who call themselves Masons. They'd give anything to get into the Stonecutters. These are the most obscure, nefarious, and controversial organizations to ever exist. They have been accused of controlling global governments, controlling financial systems, and even the lives of citizens like you and I. And some people allege that they don't even exist at all. You probably heard of some of them. The Rosicrucians, the Freemasons, the Illuminati, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. These are just a few of the most infamous organizations to have ever existed. You've probably heard about them maybe in movies or a Dan Brown book. But the truth is they actually existed and at one point in time, possessed an insane amount of power. So today we're gonna be getting to the bottom of all these secret societies, going through all the details, who the members were, what their rituals were like, and how they were formed, and what their legacy is today. If you are a weirdo like me and you spent, you know, your teenage years on YouTube watching obscure YouTube videos about these people, then this is the episode for you. We're gonna be diving into all the details of these obs organizations that exist in the shadows. So pull up a chair, throw on your hood, and welcome to camp. What's up, people? And welcome back to camp. My name is Mark Gagnon and welcome to my beautiful tent. In this tent, we typically talk about the most interesting, controversial, and fascinating topics from around the world, from all times. And normally across from me, I have one of my dumbest friends that I explain stuff to. One dumb guy talking to another dumb guy is kind of the premise of the show. But today I don't have, you know, one of my dumbest people across from me, one of my dumb comedian friends. Today I just have, you know, you at home, the dear viewer. You get to be my dumb friend today. So welcome to the tent. I'm also joined by Christos, who produces the show, a good friend, and also my friend Gabe. What's up, Gabe? Gabe. Stop talking, dude. Ugh. I mean, enough. Enough with everyone interjecting all the time. Welcome back to the show. I got some updates. First, I'm on the road. If you want to see me coming to your city to do one hour of stand up comedy, you can see that@themarkagon.com will be announcing a bunch of dates. Additionally, Camp Goods, soon to be renamed, we have merch up on the website right now. You can check that out. And without further ado, let's discuss the Topic of the evening. Secret societies. This is something I've been fascinated about for a long time. Something I've, you know, as a child would. I would debate my mother about the, the nature of the Freemasons and the Illuminati. That was my homeschooling education for most of my childhood. Not really a ton of like math and stuff. Mostly just like debating like Rosicrucians and bizarre nuances of secret societies. So if you're interested in secret societies, congratulations. This is the episode for you. I'm so dumb. I was even on. I was just on Google the other night and I found this book by Manly P. Hall. This is like an all time great esoteric occult book written in the early 1900s by this like fascinating mystic occult guy. And it's got some sick illustrations. I've never opened it, never really read it, haven't gotten around to it. But it is just, shall I say, a slight proof of my dedication to the bizarre and the weird. If you're like me, then strap in. So let's jump in, shall we? Secret societies are a fascinating thing. This is not going to be an episode where I'm going to claim that these secret societies run the world. I don't know if it necessarily works like that, but maybe at one time they did. Okay. From the Knights Templar to the Illuminati, these are fascinating groups that have a deep historical history that many people from many different times have tried to recreate. Medieval knights, philosophers, influential figures throughout history meeting in secret. And it's not just something for movies. Even though movies obviously jump all over this. These are organizations that have genuinely had influence in creating the modern world that we live in every day. So in this episode we're going to be talking about some of these groups. The Rosicrucians and their search for hidden knowledge. The Freemasons, you know, just a little masonry group that joined together and created, you know, the backbone of American society and started putting pyramids in all of our money and then even the Illuminati. What is that? Is that even a real thing? Was it ever a real thing? And then obviously we got to talk about the Order of the Golden Dawn. Yes, this is, you know, one of the most, all time craziest secret societies where Aleister Crowley claimed to have come in contact with a demon or an entity. So don't worry, we're going to be jumping into all of these fascinating secret societies. How they started, who the people were that were involved in them, and what their legacy is in the world today. Now, I need to add that, you know, as someone that's, you know, interested in this kind of stuff, I had my dear friend Zach prepare a lot of research. Zach is just a good old country boy from Mississippi that has a lot of free time. And so he decided to tackle this crazy topic of putting together all the research. So I will be learning along with you. So let's start with the Knights Templar. Knights Templar is a fascinating little group that started on the mean streets of Jerusalem. That's right. In the year 1119 A.D. about a thousand years ago, give or take. And, yeah, this is what they look like. Pretty sick outfits, to be honest with you. Full trash can on the head. Looking sick as hell. Basically. These nine knights took a solemn vow and swore to protect Christian pilgrims traveling to the Holy Land, marking the birth of one of history's most fascinating and controversial organizations. Now, these weren't just regular knights, whatever the hell that means. I don't even know what a regular knight is. But they're not whatever you think they are. They are warrior monks. These are basically like Jesus freaks with a piece. You know what I'm saying? How about that? They were. They were warriors bound by oaths of poverty, chastity, and obedience. They were, you know, hardened warriors. And, you know, they were. They were men that have been through a couple battles, all right? They could swing a sword with deadly precision, but they also spent hours a day in quiet prayer. Kind of a cool mix, if you ask me. It's kind of my dream job, to be honest with you. I think. I think. I think we gotta get back to this. All right? The Templars started small, but they didn't stay that way for long. Their reputation for bravery and dedication spread quickly. Soon, nobles and commoners alike were clamoring to support this new order of holy warriors. Money, land, and recruits poured in from across Europe. But the Templars weren't content just fighting. They had a bigger plan. All right. As their influence grew, they built a financial empire. That's right. They set up a network of strongholds across Europe and the Middle east in cities like Paris, London and Jerusalem. And these fortresses weren't just military bases. They were medieval banks where the rich and powerful could store their valuable, their valuables safely. I mean, that's kind of sick. They started their own bank. Basically, they're like, hey, we're just going to keep all your stuff here. Don't worry. Jesus will look after it. And they even invented an early form of a traveler's check, which allowed pilgrims to deposit money at one of the Templar houses and withdraw it at another, avoiding the risk of carrying cash on dangerous roads. I mean, what an insane time to go back to. You're just traveling on the road. You're trying to check out Jerusalem because you're just bored. You know, you got a little cash, and you got to worry about bandits or just, like, a war breaking out or something. And then you got to have one of these guys with a trash can on his head to protect you. I mean, that's insane. So, as you can imagine, the Templars became very wealthy and very influential. They were lending money to kings. They managed estates for nobles, and then even acted as financial advisors to the powerful. Their advice? Let it give us all your money sounds pretty good to me. This is an age when most people couldn't read or write, and the Templars were practically financial geniuses. But their success was obviously not met with just, you know, pure excitement and joy. There was jealousy and suspicion. How could all these monks that were sworn to poverty, you know, that were dedicated to living a life with no wealth at all, all of a sudden be some of the richest people in all of Europe and the Middle East? Some people suggest that they had discovered religious artifacts during their time in Jerusalem. This again, this is part of the conspiracy? All right? I'm just telling you what some people believed. They believe that the Templars got access to the Holy Grail, the Ark of the Covenant, and even the Spear of Destiny, if you're not sure what these are. The Holy Grail is said to be used by Jesus at the Last Supper. Yeah, I thought. I always thought the Holy Grail growing up was just like. Like a silly thing you would drink from, though. Like, make you young. Turns out that's the Fountain of Youth. Completely different thing, right? The Holy Grail is literally what Jesus drank from at the Last Supper and is perhaps the most famous artifact ever associated with the Templars. Some theories suggest that the Templars found the Grail during their time in Jerusalem. However, alternative interpretations propose that the Grail wasn't even a physical object at all, but rather a metaphor, maybe for spiritual enlightenment. Some scholars even argue that. That this is how the Templars understood the Grail, as, like, this symbol or like. Like a talisman for divine energy within the human body, not an actual artifact. But that didn't stop people from trying to find the Holy Grail much later. Some people believe that the Templars also unearthed the Ark of the Covenant. Yeah, underneath the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. According to biblical accounts, this was the most sacred object where God's presence would manifest. If you've ever read the Bible or maybe even listen to one of our past episodes, you'll know that the Ark of the Covenant was very important to the ancient Jews. Inside the ark was said to be the two stone tablets of the Ten Commandments. Aaron's rod representing the priesthood and the jar of manna, God's, you know, abundant gift of life and food to the wandering Israelites. And this theory proposes that the Templars secretly transported the Ark to Europe, using its divine powers to amass wealth and influence. That's intriguing, but again, no historical evidence supports this claim. It is interesting though. I mean, I don't even know how they would transport it. According to the old biblical tradition, if you touch the Ark of the Covenant, you would die. So they must have had, I don't know, some type of sticks or something to move it around. Other people believe that the Ark of the Covenant has magical powers. If you found it, it would have God's actual energy or something, or anti gravity or something like that. Who knows? Recent research in the Vatican secret archives uncovered a potential link between the Templars and on the Shroud of Turin. Have you heard of the Shroud of Turin?
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Christos
I have no.
- [10:13]
Mark Gagnon
Shroud of Turin is fascinating. We need to do a whole episode on the Shroud of Turin. It's basically said to be the Shroud or the sheet that was laid across Jesus's body after he was taken off the cross. You can see an image of it right here is actually in Turin, Italy as we speak. And you can go see it, I'm pretty sure. And that's a negative on the right that shows the face of a man after he's been crucified. And some people believe this is where we get the modern depictions of Christ.
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Christos
And the left is the Shroud.
- [10:39]
Mark Gagnon
That's the Shroud itself and it's like a full body. If you click the image right above.
- [10:43]
Christos
It, it looks exactly like my mattress cover in the summer.
- [10:46]
Mark Gagnon
Yes, it does get a little dirty, but that has more to say about your cleanliness habits that you sleeping happens to be like a guy that was just murdered. But yeah, this is, it's a fascinating artifact. People have done like testing on it. They believe that like the, the threads of the, of the linen of the shroud go, you know, all the way back to the time of Christ. Other people believe it was a, you know, a dupe or some type of, you know, fraud that was created. A trial document from 1287 describes a Templar initiation ritual involving veneration of, quote, a long linen cloth on which was impressed by the figure of a man. This could potentially explain the Shroud's whereabouts during the historical gap between 1204 and 1353. One of the most famous artifacts, however, is the Holy Lance. We've talked about the Holy Lance in different episodes involving the Nazis that apparently Heinrich Himmler was interested. You know, allegedly. Some people believe that Hitler himself, when he conquered Vienna, went to go get the Holy Lance. However, that has been disputed by historians as well. This Holy Lance is basically known to be the spear that pierced Jesus's side during the crucifixion. While not directly linked to the Templars in most legends, the spear has a rich history. On its own, it's been associated with, like, Charlemagne the Great, you know, Holy Roman Emperor. Apparently he held the lance with him and carried it with him in battle, and it granted him this invincibility. The one battle that Charlemagne lost, where he eventually died, apparently he dropped the lance into a river. No one knows even exactly where the lance is. There's, like, recreations, but people do suspect that it's in Vienna, Austria.
- [12:17]
Christos
Wait, in addition to being crucified, Jesus was speared?
- [12:21]
Mark Gagnon
Read the Bible, Christos. Come on, dude. A Roman soldier speared him and water came out of his body.
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Christos
Yikes.
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Mark Gagnon
Right there you can see an actual photograph from the time, not a painting comment.
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Christos
If you didn't know that.
- [12:33]
Mark Gagnon
Everyone knows that, Christos. Come on, bro. No, not a lot of people know that. And yeah, apparently it was used to, like, during crucifixions to make sure that people actually died. Sometimes it would quicken their death. Other people believe it was done to increase the pain that a crucified person would feel at the hands of the Roman state. Regardless, no one really knows for sure what happened. The mystery around the Templars is fascinating regardless, though, the sudden downfall and the question of what happened to their alleged treasures makes it easy to believe that maybe there was something bigger. Maybe there was, you know, secret societies, the Vatican themselves, that are hiding some of this information. And as a result, these rumors have taken a life of their own. Some even claim that the Templars had unearthed scrolls containing lost wisdom from the time of Solomon. Obviously Solomon, famous for building the second temple, allegedly using demons to build the temple himself. Using the rings of Solomon, he was able to control them. People believe this is potentially also where, like, the idea of Freemasons come from. Like these master builders, these people that can, like, build these great things, that's, like, hearkening back to the time of Solomon. Again, random theories, okay? Others insist that they found the secret to eternal life or even perhaps discovered the hidden bloodlines of Christ. Each tale is crazier than the last. But there is one thing. The idea that the Templars knew something that the world didn't. I mean, this is like an OG conspiracy. It's like, yo, who's got the info? The Knights Templars. They're the ones that are in there. They're holding all these secret treasures, yada, yada, yada. Their power reached its peak in the early 1300s and they answered to one man and one man only, the Pope. So basically untouchable. They can kind of operate with impunity. But their fall is as dramatic as their rise. Yes, Friday 13th October 1307. Apparently that's where the idea that Friday the 13th is unlucky comes from. Can we fact check that, actually? Because I'd heard that growing up, but I don't know if that's actually the case. But yeah, apparently Friday the 13th being unlucky comes from this idea that this one. The Knights Templar was sort of dissolved. King Philip IV of France ordered the arrest of all the Templars in his kingdom. The charges, heresy, blasphemy and all sorts of unspeakable acts. Templars across France were rounded up, tortured, and forced to confess to crimes that they may or may not have committed. The King was deeply in debt to the Templar Order and saw a chance to erase what he owed and seized their wealth. I mean, not a good idea to strike up a deal with the King, right? Spring Fest and Ego Days are here at Lowe's right now. Get a free select EGO 56 volt battery with purchase of a select trimmer, blower or mower kit. Plus, shop today for new and exclusive items you need for your lawn. So get ready for spring with the latest in innovation from Ego, the number one rated brand in cordless outdoor power. Only at Lowe's. We help you save offer valid through Fort who. Selection varies by location while supplies last. McDonald's meets the Minecraft universe with one.
- [15:33]
Christos
Of six collectibles and your choice of.
- [15:35]
Mark Gagnon
A Big Mac or 10 piece McNuggets with spicy nether flame sauce.
- [15:39]
Christos
Now available with a Minecraft movie meal.
- [15:42]
Mark Gagnon
I participate in McDonald's for a limited time. A Minecraft movie only in theaters, right? You can imagine like you're doing a deal with the king and if he owes you money, he'll just arrest all of you.
- [15:52]
Christos
But what's the relationship between the King and the Pope?
- [15:55]
Mark Gagnon
If the I'm Glad you asked. So the Pope, obviously, as the, you know, the Catholic figurehead and theocrat of the time, came under pressure from the French king, and the French king was basically able to levy pressure on him, being like, you know, obviously you have church and state not exactly separated at the time. So you have some political power from the actual, like, monarchs of the town, I'm assuming, through, you know, economic levies and things like that, able to put pressure on the Pope and maybe strike a deal. So seems like they strike a deal and officially dissolve the order in 1312. And the last Grand Master of the Templars, Jacques de Molay, was burned at the stake in Paris two years later on March 18. Legend has it that as the flames consumed him, he called out a final curse against King Philip IV of France and Pope Clement V, declaring that they would face divine judgment within a year. Pretty wild. But nothing happened to those guys. Psych. Both men died shortly after. Pretty wild. Pope Clement V, who had already been, you know, in poor health, passed away April 20, 1314. And in that same year, on November 29, King Philip IV died suddenly, potentially from a strok during a hunting trip. So, of course, that's going to fuel way more conspiracy theories, right? You dissolve this whole order, burn one of the guys at the stake, and then immediately the two people involved in it die.
- [17:21]
Christos
I mean, it sounds like the first guy was ready to go anyway.
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Mark Gagnon
Yeah, exactly. It'd be like, me being like, oh, I think Joe Biden will die. 10 years. You know what I mean? It's like, all right, it's pretty safe. Hopefully he lives forever. Hopefully. I don't want. I don't want to death to any American president.
- [17:34]
Christos
Wife.
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Mark Gagnon
Yes. Wait, she's way younger, though. Yeah, no, she's got time. Both of them are. Both of them are good. They'll. They'll live to be a thousand years old. Vampires never die.
- [17:43]
Christos
Joe Biden is a thousand years.
- [17:46]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, no, he's. He's pushing it, for sure. So, as you can imagine, these conspiracies have, you know, kind of gone around in folklore ever since then. People around Paris being like, what? You hear about the king dying, like, shortly after he sentenced this guy to death? And also, the money people are like, where did all the treasures go? And these questions obviously have stuck around ever since then. And the Templars have become a staple in pop culture, appearing in everything from, you know, historical works to fantasy novels, romance novels, perhaps. They've been portrayed as villains, heroes, and everything in between. 19th century, you got this guy, Walter Scott, probably heard of him. He popularized the image of the villainous Templar knight, this corrupt, power hungry warrior that was going around basically stealing from people. And this depiction stuck around for a while, coloring how people viewed the order. But in the 20th century, things began to change. This guy, Jan Gilou, the Swedish author, introduced the idea of the heroic Templar, a noble warrior fighting for a greater cause. And this new image caught on, leading to more sympathetic betrayals in books and, you know, film and things like that. In recent years, the Templar myth has taken on a life of its own. Obviously people read the Da Vinci Code and that definitely popularized the idea that the Templars discovered earth shattering secrets that could shake the foundations of Christianity. And while these claims don't really hold up to historical scrutiny, really, they've captured the public's imaginations. They've also showed up in like Assassin's Creed. You ever played that. So the Templar myth is obviously, you know, popular in that video game. Basically imagining, imagining these century old secret wars between the Templars and the Assassins that, you know, shape history. The real Templars were, you know, not really, as you can imagine, saints or sinners. They were people of their time, capable of great acts of charity and protecting the, you know, the wayward traveler and just helping them back to their land, but also terrible violence and probably, you know, robbing people on the street. And their true legacy lies not in hidden treasure, secret knowledge, but the mark that they left on history. They helped shape the banking systems that we use today in creating some of the financial instruments. They played a crucial role in the Crusades, which, depending on what side you're on, you're welcome, or I'm sorry. And they also left us with the questions of nature, power and faith, and also just hidden forces that govern the world. As you can imagine, the Templars might be long gone, but their legacy is everywhere. The symbols show up on dollar bills. Can we get an image of that Knight Templar symbol, dollar bill. Their stories fuel, you know, favorite movies and video games. And of course, their mysteries keep conspiracy theories alive. I mean, that's why we're listening to this episode right now. The more we dig into their past, the more questions we find. What other secrets are buried in history waiting to be uncovered? Well, I'm glad you asked, Christos.
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Christos
This is a bit of a reach.
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Mark Gagnon
Yeah. What is this? The Knight Templar Cross.
- [20:37]
Christos
You have to do origami to get the Knight Templars cross on dollar bill.
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Mark Gagnon
Yeah, I don't know about that. No, there's gotta be another one, right?
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Christos
The 911 thing on the dollar bill is a lot more.
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Mark Gagnon
I mean, what do we got?
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Christos
You know what I like about the Knights Templars?
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Mark Gagnon
What's that?
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Christos
If you are gonna be handling my money, if you're a monk and celibate, you don't have the desires that are sexual that can cause you to mess that up for me.
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Mark Gagnon
You hope. I mean, that's the whole goal, you know what I mean? But at the same time, it's like absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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Christos
The eunuchs.
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Mark Gagnon
Yeah, they didn't have penises.
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Christos
Exactly.
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Mark Gagnon
They didn't have a choice.
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Christos
Right.
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Mark Gagnon
I'm saying these guys are just guys, like all of us. Of course. They're holy men. Okay. And I'm completely on the side of the Templars. They could do no wrong. They're great guys, but you give them unlimited power and impunity and they can do whatever they want. And all they have to answer to is the Pope. You can see how that might be rife for corruption. Not that that happened here. I trust him with my money. Same if I go into a bank and he doesn't have a giant trash can on his head and a giant cross on his shirt, I'm leaving immediately. I'm walking right out of there. But as you can imagine, it's not the case in my local Wells Fargo. Let's talk about the Rosicrucians. In a world of secret societies, few groups have captured the imaginations like the Rosicrucians. They stretch all the way back to the 17th century. It's this mysterious brotherhood that's associated with esoteric wisdom, enlightenment, hidden knowledge. But who were the Rosicrucians? What was the actual history behind them? What can we actually hold on to? Have you ever heard of the Rosicrucians?
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Christos
I haven't.
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Mark Gagnon
Well, let me tell you, at the heart of Rosicrucian philosophy lies a profound and intriguing concept. The idea of universal divine intelligence present in all things. And it's not just like your typical religious notion of God. Instead, a Rosicrucian saw the divine as an all encompassing force flowing through every atom of the universe from the tiniest grain of sand to the vast expanses of the cosmos. They believed that this intelligence gave order and meaning to everything. I mean, that reminds me of the book I'm reading right now, Galileo's era, about Panpsychism. The idea of consciousness exists in all material things. You could take the composition of a human being, take carbon, water, all that stuff, put it on a table, there's no consciousness. But if you form it into A human being. All of a sudden, there is consciousness. So it's like, where does the consciousness lie? Is it in the things themselves?
- [22:52]
Christos
So it's kind of like gestalt psychology, where the sum is greater than its parts.
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Mark Gagnon
Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I'm not familiar with that. Okay, sounds like it.
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Christos
Got it.
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Mark Gagnon
Yeah. This idea that, like, because the things themselves, the atoms themselves, are imbued with their own, you know, consciousness when they're put together, that you can create a supreme consciousness that interacts with the world, like you and I.
- [23:16]
Christos
But they're saying material things.
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Mark Gagnon
Precisely.
- [23:18]
Christos
Inanimate.
- [23:20]
Mark Gagnon
Precisely. So all things are on the spectrum of consciousness. So human beings have the highest consciousness that we can observe, but other things have other consciousnesses. Dogs have some type of consciousness for sure. And if we follow it all the way down, it's like, do rocks have some type of even more subtle version of consciousness? I'm not sure if that's exactly what the Rosicrucians are fighting for, but, I mean, maybe. Let's find out. For the Rosicrucian, it wasn't just a call to action. If divine wisdom was truly present in all things, then the key to unlocking the secrets of the universe might be found in the most mundane objects and experiences. A simple flower, a ray of sunlight, you know, tan in your perineum, or even the rhythm of one's own breath could reveal the truth about the nature of reality. To tap into this cosmic wisdom, Rosicrucians developed a range of spiritual practices. Meditation was the biggest. By quieting the mind and turning inward, they believed that they could attune themselves to the subtle vibrations of divine intelligence. Gabe, you pulled up a picture of some of the famous Rosicrucians. I'd be curious to see who. All right, we got Emmanuel Kant, Rene Descartes, Galileo, John Dee. The occultist, Nietzsche, Leonardo da Vinci, Victor Hugo, Blaise Pascal. I mean, this is a solid little starting five. I'll be honest.
- [24:33]
Christos
Are you not going to mention our presidents, our past presidents?
- [24:36]
Mark Gagnon
Wait, where?
- [24:37]
Christos
Thomas Jefferson.
- [24:38]
Mark Gagnon
T.J. yeah, yeah, yeah. We got Thomas Jefferson, Spinoza, Claude Debussy. One of my favorite composers ever.
- [24:44]
Christos
Are you intentionally not saying Benjamin Franklin?
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Mark Gagnon
Also Ben Franklin? Yeah, yeah, no, I'm just. I'm just running through the list.
- [24:49]
Christos
Okay.
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Mark Gagnon
I was more excited by Cloud Debuss.
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Christos
Live in the United States.
- [24:54]
Mark Gagnon
That's fair. That we do live in the United States.
- [24:56]
Christos
Shout out to him.
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Mark Gagnon
And yeah, apparently they were all down with meditation. I mean, that's sick as hell. Meditation rules. So These visualization techniques were another important tool used by the Rosicrucians. They see the power of imagination as a way to create vivid mental images representing themselves as conduits for divine energy and using this visualizing symbolic representation to tap into these cosmic truths. The Rosicrucians were also avid students of ancient texts. They pored over the works from a wide range of traditions, including Hermeticism, Kabbalah, and even Gnosticism, which we will get to later. Okay, but they didn't just read those on face value. They believed that hidden within the words and symbols were deeper, esoteric meanings that could unlock spiritual truths. The quest for wisdom led the Rosicrucians to developing this complex system of symbolism and allegory. And they saw the universe as this book of symbols waiting to be deciphered by those with the right knowledge. Even their name and emblem. A rose upon a cross. Rosicrucian rose upon a cross. Or rich layers of meaning hinting at the union of divine and earthly wisdom. Look at that. A rose upon a cross. The cross. The Rosicrucians. But the Rosicrucians weren't trying to keep this knowledge to themselves. They saw their mission as one of global transformation. By unlocking the secrets of the universe, they hoped to usher in a new age of spiritual enlightenment. This utopian vision captured the imagination of a lot of people, as you can imagine, some of the people we just mentioned. And soon Rosicrucian ideas spread across Europe and overseas. The influence of Rosicrucian thought can be seen in many occult and esoteric movements. The emphasis on personal and spiritual development, the blending of scientific and mystic mystical ideas, and the use of, you know, sort of secret language all became hallmarks of Western esoteric traditions. Groups like the Freemasons, the Theosophical Society, and countless others drew inspiration from the Rosicrucian concepts. Now, of course, with such big goals and secretive methods, it wasn't long before the, you know, conspiracy theories started to. To come about. As you can imagine, some claim that they possessed ancient Egyptian secrets that would grant them immortality. Others insisted that they were puppet masters, secretly controlling the world from behind the scenes. Even all the way back then, they were convinced that there was some type of, like, puppet master group. And maybe they were right. Who knows? The truth? As often the case is, you know, slightly less intriguing, the exact origins of the Rosicrucian movement are, again, difficult to really pin down. The story goes that a German nobleman named Christian Rosenkreuz traveled to the Middle east in the 15th century, where he learned secret wisdom from Arab sages. Upon returning to Europe, he founded the Rosicrucian order to preserve and spread his knowledge. But many scholars argue that this story is more symbolic than factual. The first real mention of Rosicrucians didn't appear until the early 1600s, when three mysterious manifestos were the Fama Fraternitis, Confessio Fraternitis and Chimical Wedding of Christian Rosicruz. These writings set off a wave of intrigue describing a secret brotherhood devoted to transforming the world through hidden knowledge and esoteric wisdom. This kind of sounds like Da Vinci Code a little bit, you know what I mean? It's like these books kind of come out out of nowhere, spreading this sort of story, and then everyone jumps on trying to find the mystical knowledge again. I don't know, I've never like deep dived on the Rosicrucians. I've never like, I haven't read all the Rosicrucian works. So I can't say if what they discovered was actual secret knowledge or not. So whether the Rosicrucian order truly existed at this time is still up for debate. Some people believe that the manifestos are nothing more than like, you know, a hoax or maybe even satire, while others saw them as like a call to action, like an invitation for like minded individuals to come together and create such a group themselves. But regardless of the origin, the ideas in these texts ignited a movement that has, you know, lasted in, you know, the Western esoteric world ever since. And as Rosicrucian ideas spread, various groups and individuals claimed to be the true heirs of this mystical tradition. In the 18th and 19th centuries, several Rosicrucian orders were established, each with its own interpretation of the original teaching. Some focused more on practical alchemy, while others emphasized spiritual development or occult studies. One of the most influential Rosicrucian inspired groups to emerge was the Hermetic Order of the golden dawn, found in the late 19th century in England. And this secret society pulled heavily from Rosicrucian symbolism, mixing it with teachings from other esoteric traditions. Among its members were poets W.B. yeats and the infamous occultist Aleister Crowley, both of whom helped spread these mystical ideas into mainstream culture. We'll get to them later. But it is interesting, right? All these secret societies always have super powerful influential members in them. And one theory is like, of course these people are influential because they went into these groups and possessed all these, you know, all the secret teachings and all the knowledge, and then went out and became, you know, scientists and musicians and Stuff like that. The other theory is that like, you know, talented people find themselves into these groups and the way to get powerful is by, you know, politicking and being around these other powerful people. I don't know, the second one seems slightly more likely to me, but yeah, we shall see. What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because I want to talk to you about the most discreet, coolest way to curb your nicotine cravings. And that's right here with Zippix. You've probably seen me chomping on a couple of these toothpicks during the episodes of this podcast. I like to use a little bit of nicotine when I'm locking in on a long term conversation with someone, trying to figure out the, you know, deep meanings of life and aliens or even consciousness. I also like it when I'm trying to write. Sometimes right before I go on stage, I find that it just gives me a little bit more of a locked in feeling. I can focus for a little bit longer. 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I also should let you know that you have to be 21 years old or older to order. Also, nicotine is an addictive chemical, so please use it wisely. Only as much as you need. Now let's get back to the show. What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because I need to tell you about how you are potentially entitled for some compensation. That's right. You may have been injured without even knowing it. And I think statistically, most Americans have been injured by this. We know that our food is poison. Many of these companies, these massive conglomerates, are pumping our food with stabilizers and gums and other processed chemicals that are illegal in most other countries. But for some reason in America, they are fully legal and they are allegedly causing many health problems. That's a very small alleged. I actually just read a book about this ultra processed humans. It's fascinating that the processed chemicals that are going into our foods are terrible for you. I mean, if you were to take a baked cookie and a cookie that's filled with processed preservatives, even if they have the same exact nutritional profile, the one with the preservatives and all the gums and stabilizers and ultra processing chemicals is going to be worse for you by a far, far margin. So if you have been exposed to many of these ultra processed foods, they've been known to be addictive, they've been known to CR to target children, and they can potentially cause chronic diseases such as type 2 diabetes, fatty liver disease, both of which were unheard of 40 years ago, but now affect the lives of thousands of children. It looks like the people over at Morgan and Morgan are fighting for the people once again. That's right. Morgan and Morgan, America's largest law firm. I mean, they have, you know, handled thousands and thousands of cases, recovered billions of dollars for their cl, and now they are targeting the ultra processed food giants of the world. Okay, so if you or your child has been diagnosed with one of these diseases that I mentioned before, you may have legal options. They have helped thousands of families seek justice against these big corporations and they are ready to fight for you as well. So if you were interested, go to for the people.comgagnon. that's right. That is f o r the people.comgagnon. if you're interested in potentially hearing more about the way that these companies can be affecting you and your health and the health of your family and how you may be entitled for compensation because of that. Now I do have to disclose this is a paid advertisement. Now let's get back to the show. Another prominent group that claimed to be an heir of the Rosicrucians is the ancient mystical order Rosa Crucis A M o R C Amorc. This group in the United States was founded in 1915 and remains one of the largest Rosicrucian orders today. Amor presents itself as this philosophical and educational organization offering correspondence courses and esoteric studies to members around the world. Let's Pull up their website. Oh, is this it? Oh, this is a nice website. No, it looks good. I don't know who their, their web guy is, but did a good job. I mean, you would think, I mean, I feel like you, you could make it a little nicer if they're Rosicrucian Junior RJ yeah. If they're possessing the power of all time, you think that they could kind of make it like interactive or something. But yeah, look at this. A bridge to another dimension of life. The Rosicrucian order has provided a bridge for me into a dimension of life that I inwardly and innately long for but cannot find in all of my scientific and religious searches. That's Lonnie Edwards, a surgeon general, former Commissioner of health at the city of Chicago. I mean, there you go. Some powerful people are part of it. The Rosicrucian approach to spirituality still draws interest today largely because it values personal experience over just, you know, blind faith. For those, you know, disillusioned with traditional religion, its mix of mysticism and reason and logic offers this alternative path, one that embraces spiritual exploration without rejecting science. And this balance continues to resonate with modern truth seekers to this very day. However, it's important to note that many of the more sensational claims about the Rosicrucian power or influence are probably a little exaggerated. While Rosicrucian ideas have had an impact on Western esoteric thought, for sure, it's difficult to really, you know, have evidence that they possess supernatural abilities or control the world from the shadows. But if you have all these powerful people that are in there, then you know, there's something to be said, right? It's kind of just like an intellectual gang. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. 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Book it with Priceline. Got your happy price? Priceline. You know what I mean? Like, they're not running a corner doing drugs, but maybe like they run a specific subset of like an industry. Maybe all the musicians are Rosicrucians and it's like, oh, maybe they run like classical music. Who knows? Obviously the traditions have influenced psychology and philosophy and all that kind of stuff. They're focused on self discovery and personal transformation mirrors ideas found in modern psychology. And obviously having Frederick Nietzsche as a member of the Rosicrucians, the father of psychology in a lot of ways. A famous philosopher, you could say. Was Freud a Rosicrucian? I wonder if Freud was a part of any. Was a part of any, like, secret societies or anything like that?
- [37:27]
Christos
I love looking at Gabe's spelling of things.
- [37:30]
Mark Gagnon
I mean, he did good with Sigmund. I'll be honest with you. Search is like secret society and maybe see if he was ever a part of anything, because it makes sense. Back in the day, I think dudes were bored and they were just like, yo, I have like this group of guys.
- [37:42]
Christos
I think they were just looking for a hang most of the time.
- [37:44]
Mark Gagnon
Sigmund Freud formed the Secret Ring with six other psychoanalysts dedicated to covert promotion and their. Of their field and the removal of impediments to the acceptance of psychology. Wow. The Secret Committee. He joined it with a bunch of other people that. I don't know their names, but they are a little scary sounding. I mean, that's fascinating. Wow. This Freud and the Rings, the secret committee. Yeah, dude. Everyone was a part of these kinds of things. It's basically. I mean, a fraternity is the same thing. Like, fraternities are like, at their core, basically like cosplaying secret societies, except their M.O. is just like, get blacked out and like me girls, you know? But it follows the same kind of. Same kind of deal. I wonder if they had to haze to get in these. These orders.
- [38:26]
Christos
That'd be great.
- [38:28]
Mark Gagnon
Be like, yo, Ben Franklin, gotta do Edward 40 hints. Start chugging, buddy. You know, like, that'd be sick as hell. But yeah, it's, it's interesting. Like, it's basically fraternity. But perhaps the most lasting impact of the Rosicrucians is their reminder that true wisdom often hides in the least expected places. They challenge us to look behind the obvious, question our choices, and seek a deeper meaning in the world around us. But the story of the Rosicrucians is far from over. As long as there are people drawn to hidden wisdom and mysteries, yeah, The Rose and cross will continue to call. And who knows? Maybe. Maybe I'm a Rosicrucian, right? I mean, what am I doing? I'm searching for truth and wisdom and the most mundane things.
- [39:11]
Christos
You're bringing people to your campsite?
- [39:14]
Mark Gagnon
To my campsite. It's very culty. It's all very culty. All right, let's talk about one of the big boys. All right, Freemasons. You've heard of Freemason, right? Of course. From the stone yards of medieval Europe to the grand lodges of today, Freemasonry has undergone a remarkable transformation. Again, I'm not an expert in Freemasonry. If someone in here is a Freemason and wants to correct some of the stuff, feel free, all right, put it in the comments. Just be nice to me, okay? What began as a guild for stonemasons in the Middle Ages has become a worldwide fraternity shrouded in mystery. So let's start at the beginning. All right? Back in the days when cathedrals were the skyscrapers of their time, stonemasons were the rock stars of the construction world. If you could get a sick stonemason, you could get a sick cathedral and you could be the sickest city in town. So these craftsmen formed guilds to protect their trade secrets and ensure fair wages. So it's basically a union kind of how it starts. They had three levels of expertise. They had apprentice, fellow, craft or a journeyman and the master mason. Sound familiar? That's because modern Freemasonry still uses these degrees in its structure. As the need for massive stone buildings decline, these guilds began to accept members that weren't, you know, actual stonemasons. These accepted or speculative Masons were often educated men interested in philosophical aspects of the craft. And by the early 1700s, the shift was complete. And Freemasonry as we know it today was born. 1717. Four London lodges united to establish the first Grand Lodge officially launching organized Freemasonry. From that moment, the movement spread rapidly across Europe and eventually took root in the Americas. And today, millions of Freemasons exist worldwide. And the fraternity has included some of history's most influential figures, including George Washington, Ben Franklin, he might have been two timing Winston Churchill and even Buzz Aldrin. Only adding to the mystery and significance let's look. Buzz Aldrin, a Freemason. I mean, that's wild. I mean, again, it's not, like, the most secretive thing ever. Like, growing up in Orlando, I'd meet these dudes, they're like, yo, I'm Freemason. And, like, they had the ring. Like, they put on their license plate.
- [41:20]
Christos
I think if you're a Freemason, you don't say you are.
- [41:22]
Mark Gagnon
Well, people put it on, like, their license plate and stuff. Like, you'll drive around, you'll see a license plate with a Freemason.
- [41:26]
Christos
Those are the phony guys.
- [41:28]
Mark Gagnon
I mean, they're just faking it.
- [41:29]
Christos
Not faking it, but they're not the actual. If you're a Freemason, you're not telling anybody you're Freemason.
- [41:34]
Mark Gagnon
Well, I think now Freemasonry is, like, so diluted from what it originally was. Like, I think. And I will talk about this back.
- [41:41]
Christos
In 93, when you were coming up in Florida.
- [41:43]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah. I mean, I wasn't a baby talking these guys. This is more like 2000s.
- [41:47]
Christos
Okay.
- [41:48]
Mark Gagnon
But still, like, it's not. You know, it's not as. I just don't think it consolidated as much, you know. Oh, look at that. He's a member of several Masonic organizations. The Clear Lake. Clear Lake Lodge in Texas.
- [41:59]
Christos
That weird. One of the only guys to ever go on the moon, allegedly is also a Freemason.
- [42:05]
Mark Gagnon
It's interesting, but again, it's like, here's my only issue again. I've debated with my mom about this forever, because my mom's like, the Freemasons built America. Yada, yada. It's like, yes, they did, of course, like, the. All the early Founding Fathers, all Freemasons. But, like, I just think today all those people, like, once people are, like, buying, like, books on Amazon of your secret society, you got to move to another secret society kind of over, right? Like, you get the block. It's too hot. We got to rebrand. And so, like, the actual people that are involved in secret societies are, I'm assuming, in some other thing that we don't know about.
- [42:36]
Christos
Right.
- [42:36]
Mark Gagnon
And maybe someone out there knows it. Bohemian Grove. But even that's probably too hot. They're making T shirts on Amazon. So you got like, all right, we got to move on to the next thing. And then it just kind of keeps on shifting, and then they keep the old lodges open as, like, a tourist destination, and then, like, random people in Orlando, Florida, can join to be a Freemason. That's what I'm Assuming. But back in the day, what were the Freemasons doing, right? They're not building cathedrals anymore. So instead, they've taken the tools and practices of stonemasons and turned them into symbols for moral and spiritual growth. So take their symbol, you know, the square and the compass. You know, the most recognizable Masonic symbol. The square represents morality, reminding Masons to square their actions with ethical behaviors, while the compass symbolizes the boundaries of proper conduct. Together they form a visual reminder of Masonic commitment to personal improvement. Rituals also play a big part in Freemasonry. So new members go through initiation ceremonies for each degree, learning secret handshakes, passwords, symbolic lessons along the way. These rituals aren't just for show. They're designed to teach moral lessons and foster a sense of brotherhood amongst the members. Again, every Freemason you ever meet today, they're just like the oldest guy ever. And, like, you can see, like, again, the second people like me, like dumb guys on YouTube are making videos about it, it's like, all right, time to change. So these rituals are, you know, a big. A big part of it. And then there's also the degree system, which is actually pretty interesting. And there's. It's super complex and complicated. Like I said before, you have, like, apprentice, you have fellow craft journeyman, and then you have the Master Mason. And they form the foundation of the Masonic membership. But there's a whole set of additional degrees and all sorts of stuff. Each degree involves its own unique initiation ritual designed to teach moral lessons through symbolism. For example, the initiation ceremony for the entered apprentice degree welcomes new members into Lodge using symbols like lambskin aprons to represent purity and integrity. So you have this guy, Hiram Abiff. This is a famous legend, and it's one of Masonry's most central rituals. So at the heart of Freemasonry, you have the legend of Hiram Abiff, a narrative that forms the centerpiece of the Master Mason degree. According to Masonic tradition, Hiram Abiff was the chief architect of King Solomon's Temple, a skilled craftsman sent by King Hiram of Tyre to assist with the temple's construction. The biblical account in First Kings described him as, quote, filled with wisdom, understanding and skill. To work with all kinds of bronze through Masonic legends significantly expands his role and story. In the story in the Mason version, Hiram Abiff possessed the secrets of a Master Mason, knowledge that three fellow craftsmen desperately wanted. These three ruffians, often referred to as Jubela, Jubelo and Jubellum, or collectively as the three Joue, plotted to extract these secrets by force. Jubello, Jubelo and Jubellum. I mean, that. That's. Were they triplets? It seems like that. Can we get a picture of these guys? Jubelo, Jubele and Jubellum.
- [45:35]
Christos
Why do they call them the Jues?
- [45:37]
Mark Gagnon
I don't know. I don't know what that means. I'm assuming it's like. It's because all their names start with Ju. So I'm assuming it's just like a suffix to be like. Yeah, the Jews.
- [45:46]
Christos
Jew Ways is a misspelling or a distorted form of the word Jews.
- [45:49]
Mark Gagnon
Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, that's interesting.
- [45:51]
Christos
But often used in a derogatory or antisemitic context.
- [45:54]
Mark Gagnon
Jew. Really?
- [45:56]
Christos
Yeah.
- [45:56]
Mark Gagnon
Oh, that's fascinating. I had never heard that. See a new slur? Yeah, we just got a new slur. Isn't that great? Every week you just find a new way to insult a whole subgroup. Yeah, the Freemasons. Three ruffians. Regardless, they basically plotted to extract these secrets by force. They confronted Hyrum at the three entrances of the temple, demanding he reveal the Master Mason's secret word. When Hiram refused, each time maintaining his solemn oath of secrecy, he was struck with severe blows from architectural tools. First with a gauge, then a square, then finally setting maul to the forehead, which proved fatal. The three conspirators then buried Hiram's body in a shallow grave and attempted to flee. When the Great Architect was reported missing, King Solomon ordered a search. After several failed attempts, the body was discovered by a search party of fellow crafts. Solomon then ordered the body to be exhumed using the grip of a Master Mason, also known as the Five Points of Fellowship. And a special word was uttered. The ritual reenactment of this legend forms the climax of the Master Mason Master. Did I just say. Heard that? I didn't say masturbation?
- [47:05]
Christos
No.
- [47:05]
Mark Gagnon
The Master Mason initiation ceremony. The candidate symbolically plays the role of Hiram Abiff, experiencing a ritualistic death and resurrection that represents spiritual rebirth. The candidate is slain and then raised from a symbolic grave representing both the immortality of the soul and the triumph of good over evil. During the ceremony, the new Master Mason is taught a substitute word, standing in for the true master's word, which was lost with Hiram Abiff's death. Fascinating. Again, these rituals, they, like, they seem crazy, but, like, if you ask anyone that's been in a fraternity, and they'll be like, yeah, we had a secret handshake. You know what I mean? Again, I don't know how real these rituals are, but at the same time, if you're religious. I wouldn't do a satanic ritual. That freaks me out, right? I'd be like, all right, that's too far. Like, why risk it? You know what I mean?
- [47:58]
Christos
But if you're already in the group, everyone's in on it, you're kind of peer pressured into it, right?
- [48:04]
Mark Gagnon
You'll do it. A little Eyes Wide Shut party, you know what I mean? And take it. Put your mask on, Jeffrey Epstein style. Who knows, right? Things get out of. Things get out of hand real quick. It happens. So the five points of fellowship. This is used to raise the candidates, and it's one of the most solemn aspects of the ritual. The special grip involves five points of physical contact between the members. Foot to foot, knee to knee, breast to breast, hand to back, mouth to ear. In this position, secret words are whispered, symbolizing the secret nature of the trust between Masons. Again, the fact that anyone knows this. Again, I'm not exactly even sure if this is all true. Like, I'm assuming this is true.
- [48:40]
Christos
I mean, this looks pretty hilarious.
- [48:42]
Mark Gagnon
I've never been initiated into it.
- [48:44]
Christos
Looks like they're slow dancing.
- [48:45]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, it is very romantic. One of them is dressed like the Babadook. Like, like wild. Again, I don't know what's real or not. I've never been initiated. But the fact that anyone knows this is just kind of like a fact that, like, all right, it's probably not as important as it once was. Time to switch up the secret society. So this ritual, again, teaches a bunch of important lessons, right? Fidelity to one's obligations. As Hyram chose death rather than betray the trust. It illustrates the Masonic belief in resurrection, immortality. And finally, it dramatizes the ongoing search for what was lost, often interpreted as divine truth. And Hiram Biff's legend has become so central to Masonry that many Masonic scholars consider it the symbolic foundation of the entire fraternity. The themes of death, rebirth, fidelity to one's vows, and the eternal quest to further, you know, for further light echo through all of the Masonic philosophy and symbols. Additionally, many of the tools associated with Freemasons derive their significance from, you know, this legend, right? The. The setting mall, the sprig of acacia symbolizing his grave, and then the substitute word given to newly raised Master Masons. But beyond the legends and the core degrees, Masons can pursue additional degrees through, like, the Scottish Rite or the York Rite, for example. The Scottish Rite offers 29 additional degrees organized into four bodies. You have the Lodge of Perfection, a bunch of other different, you know, specific degrees. Then there's an honorary 33rd degree awarded to Masons who've made significant contributions to the fraternity or society. It's important to note that these additional degrees aren't considered higher than the Master Mason degree. They're supplementary, offering further opportunities for study and personal growth within Masonry. Yeah, 33 apparently is like a super important number in Freemasonry. Like, there's all, like, these different clubs, like, 33rd being, like, super important. I'm pretty sure there's even, like, you'll see it in, like, movies and stuff. Like, it's become like a real center point for, like, conspiracy theorists where they're like, oh, the 33rd degree. Look at 33rd. Look at the. Look at, look at the 33. Oh, let's see.
- [50:50]
Christos
The Gematria, meaning. Oh, yeah, we get the previous episode.
- [50:52]
Mark Gagnon
We can throw this back to our previous episode on Gematria. It's considered a master number to believe to represent powerful combination of spiritual evolution, teaching, and potential for profound personal growth or guidance. So there you go. Corroborated with, you know, gamatria. But the Mason rituals go beyond just initiation. Lodges conduct ceremonies for installing new members and even hold Masonic funeral rites. One of the few public ceremonies that honor a deceased Mason's life and character. Yeah, they're all about. They're all about symbolism and, you know, symbolism and rituals and stuff like that. Like, they got like this famous apron. Can you search? Like, the Freemason apron. So there's like, clothing rituals focused on gratitude for time spent together in brotherhood with reminders to apply moral lessons learned within the Lodge and family life. So you can look at this guy, just a. Just a nice, happy Mason right there with his beautiful little apron. Some people have pointed out that the. The Gmail logo is inspired by. By the Freemasonic apron. So as you can see, people have drawn this connection where they're like, yeah, look at that. It's very similar.
- [52:03]
Christos
Oh, okay, yeah, that. I thought it was just the letter.
- [52:06]
Mark Gagnon
G. But also like, Google does words in their thing. I don't know. I'm not here to defend Google. Maybe they did it. Maybe they're all Masons. Who knows? It's possible. It's interesting, say the least. The setup of Masonic Lodge is designed to reflect the symbolic architecture of Solomon's temple. From checkered floors to the placement of altars. Every lodge is symbolically the temple for the duration of the degree. And the ritual objects representing its architecture. These, you know, include the pillars of Boaz and Jakin throughout. Every initiate must pass. That's the other thing Checkered floor is like another famous Freemason symbol that people claim is all over black and white. Yeah, so like, a checkered floor, like, they'll put this in, like, movies and stuff like that.
- [52:49]
Christos
And apparently they're definitely in the Shining.
- [52:52]
Mark Gagnon
Oh, yeah, it's every. It's like in a bunch of movies and people are always like, oh, it's because of the Freemason. Maybe it is. Again, I have no idea. But, like, there's all these, like, music videos search. Like, yeah, you can see some of them here. But also, like, I don't know, maybe checkers are interesting to look at, but there's definitely a lot of them. And specifically in, like, esoteric or, like, you know, like cult type movies, like Eyes Wide Shut, the Shining, stuff like that.
- [53:17]
Christos
Right.
- [53:17]
Mark Gagnon
People always indicate that, like, there's some type of connection with Freemasons. And the checkered floor is one of the big ones. One of the core principles of Freemasonry is the idea of making good men better. They emphasize personal growth, encouraging members to continually improve themselves morally, intellectually. And charity is another big deal in Masonic circles. Freemasons are known for donating millions to various causes, from funding hospitals to supporting education. And, yeah, I mean, they throw their money down, apparently. Maybe it's to influence these places, maybe to get secret blood or something. You know, maybe like, get a little kickback, who knows? Freemasonry takes pride in uniting men from all walks of life, all walks of life, regardless of their background or belief. And so, yeah, in a Masonic Lodge, you might have a CEO behind a plumber, and they're both equal in their commitment to the craft and its values. So now people, you know, you might be looking at this being like, this sounds pretty great. What's wrong with this? You know, outside of the Hiram dude getting murdered, but people are like, yeah, what's. What's. It seems like they're. It's all very open and, you know, they're donating money and they're involved in the community. This is where people point out the conspiracy stuff. All right. Freemasonry has long been connected to cosmic symbolism. Right? With its rituals, architecture, philosophy, mirroring the structure of the universe. From the very layout of the Masonic Lodge to the symbols used in its teachings, There's a clear reflection of celestial order. The Lodge itself is represented. Is designed to represent the cosmos. The ceiling symbolizing the starry decked heavens, much like the night sky, while the checkered floor represents the earthly plane, embodying the balance of light and darkness, good and evil. The positioning of the worshipful master in the east, where the sun rises reinforces the idea that enlightenment and divine wisdom comes from the same celestial force that guides the natural world. And then those two pillars we talked about before, Boaz and Jakin, at the entrance of the lodge further cements this cosmic connection. These pillars, originally from Solomon's temple, are thought to represent the foundations of the universe, much like the, you know, world pillar found in ancient various traditions from, you know, Norse or like the kabbalistic tree of life. Many cultures believe in a structure that upheld the heavens. And Freemasonry preserves this idea by using these pillars as symbols of, you know, stability. You can see if you just search, like, Freemason pillars, you'll find, you know, images of these pillars with, like, you know, spheres on top of them symbolizing, like, earth stability on these different spheres. So, yeah, you can see them here again. It's, like, steeped in, like, all this different type of symbolism. It's pretty interesting. And the art is actually kind of fire, to be honest with you. Like, that one there was, like, the star and the eye. I mean, that's sick as hell. I mean, that. That goes hard, bro.
- [55:58]
Christos
Do you think they call it checkerboard or chess board?
- [56:02]
Mark Gagnon
Because probably chess.
- [56:04]
Christos
Yeah.
- [56:04]
Mark Gagnon
Chess is, like, obviously much smarter. Yeah. And then the star in the middle, that's Chinese checkers. So it all comes around, you know what I mean? You got to just trust the process. Sure. Guys figured it out.
- [56:15]
Christos
Yep.
- [56:15]
Mark Gagnon
So this theme continues with the three great lights of Freemasonry. The sun, the moon, and the worshipful Master. Creating this cosmic trinity, as we can see, is very similar to Christianity. And the worshipful master is the interesting one because it serves as a guide, much like the celestial deities who bring order to the universe. And one of the most recognizable Masonic symbols is the square enCompass. Together, these two tools symbolize the unity of heaven and earth, which is a theme found in many esoteric traditions, including the hermetic pro baller Alonzo Ball for Buzz balls. Ready to go. Cocktails take 12. Buzz balls just dropped their biggest blue balls. Script says Biggie's Blue balls Lonzo. Take 13. Blue balls just dropped their biggest buzz. Uh, let's try a vocal exercise. Buzz balls, Biggies, Blue balls. Buzz balls, Biggies, Blue balls. Big balls just dropped. Get blue balls this season with Buzzballs. Please read responsibly. Buzz Balls. Available in spirit, wine and malt, 15% alcohol by volume Buzzballs, LLC. Carrollton, Texas. Wow, this house is cute, but can I really get in the game? In this economy, I do have savings and I am responsible for. Ish. I should bury it. I'm being wild. But what if I'm not being wild, though? Could I actually Score a kick off your home buying journey with Zillow's new buyability tool. It makes it easy to find out what you can afford so you can get off the bench and onto the playing field with confidence. Check your buyability only on Zillow Order and their famous principle that we'll get to later. As above, so below, which you'll also see, like any images of, like, Baphomet and like that. People always point this out. Like any. Anytime you have, like, Baphomet, it's always like a finger pointing up and then a finger pointing down. As above, so below. Which is like a deep seated. You can see it here, like a deep seated, like, esoteric idea that, like. Yeah, it's apparently heretical. If you ask my mom, she's like, yeah, it's evil to believe. As above, so below. You have to accept that, like, you know, God is pure and what happens here is impure. Another big symbol in Freemasonry is the All Seeing Eye. This is a massive, you know, very important symbol that you've seen on our. On our money. The eye represents divine omniscience and has been compared to the eye of Providence or the Egyptian Eye of Ra. Even some suggest a connection between the symbol and the galactic center, serving as a focal point of creation in cosmic order. And of course, numbers also play a key role in Masonic philosophy. Yeah, you can see the, the all seeing eye here. Yeah.
- [58:49]
Christos
What is the.
- [58:49]
Mark Gagnon
The translation of that? A new. It kept us. We should figure that out.
- [58:54]
Christos
Yes.
- [58:54]
Mark Gagnon
Because that's. That's probably important. I mean, it is interesting that this is on our money. Like, as much as I'm like, you know, like, all right, chill with like the, you know, free stuff. It is strange, like, literally on the.
- [59:05]
Christos
Currency that we use every day.
- [59:06]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah. And the literal translation trans, translates to he favors. He favors our undertaking. Oh, wow. So literally, like Manifest Destiny, I'm assuming.
- [59:18]
Christos
Who's he?
- [59:19]
Mark Gagnon
Exactly? Who is he? Right. If you're saying as above, so below, maybe you're not saying God. Oh, wow. Novus Ordo Selectorum, A New Order of the Ages and one of the two mottos on the reverse side of the Great Seal of the United States. We might just need to do a whole episode on just the dollar bill. There's also, like a whole thing with the numbers. The numbers are very important. One of the Most important numbers, you know, 33. In many spiritual traditions, three represents a creation and order much like the cosmic trios found in Egyptian mythology. Hinduism, as we talked about Vishnu, Shiva, and Brahma all creating this triune God. And obviously Christianity, three is represented a ton. And Freemasonry embraces this universal pattern, reinforcing the idea that its teachings are not just about fraternity, but understanding existence. So let's just dig into some of the, you know, the critiques of Freemasonry. Obviously, as a Catholic, it's illegal to be a Catholic and a Freemason. Did you know that? It's like the Catholic Church is very much anti Freemasonry.
- [60:15]
Christos
When you say illegal, you mean you.
- [60:17]
Mark Gagnon
Go to Catholic jail.
- [60:18]
Christos
Oh, okay.
- [60:19]
Mark Gagnon
Which is a crazy jail. You don't want to go to Catholic.
- [60:21]
Christos
Okay.
- [60:21]
Mark Gagnon
But yeah, apparently if you're a Catholic, you can't be a Freemason. My mom always told me that. But, yeah, it's. It's very frowned upon. And people believe that Freemasons have, you know, taken control of all the world governments. And, you know, they point to, like, the United States, you know, England, and they have a little bit of a point considering that there's a ton of, you know, Freemason presidents and prime ministers and. Yeah. Does that indicate they're part of a grand scheme again? My theory, if I really had to guess, is, like, back in the early days, you had to create, like, social orders and secret societies as a way of consolidating power to operate under without the watchful eye of, you know, the government, whether it's the British government or the United States government. And you all would kind of get together to, like, trade secrets, information and back, you know, even to today. Like, information is, like, the most valuable currency ever. So if you get all these smart people together that all are connected and they can all kind of put their, you know, their brains together, then you can, you know, create a pretty powerful social force. Again, I don't know if Freemasons are still running the show, but, like, in the early parts of America, like, all the framers were obviously Freemasons. They were all meeting up. I don't know if they possess secret knowledge or if they're just all. Or they're talking to each other, trading trade secrets.
- [61:37]
Christos
I mean, the Freemasons are the triangle guys, right? And this is the one that every single conspiracy IG Post says Jay Z. Is a part of. Yeah, exactly.
- [61:49]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah.
- [61:50]
Christos
He calls it Hove, but that's. Yeah.
- [61:53]
Mark Gagnon
And he drops the blueprint on 9, 11. Another part of the conspiracy people like. So another common claim is that Freemasons are a secret religion with its own God. That's possible. You know, critics often point to the use of the term Great Architect of the Universe as evidence, but Masons insist that this is just a neutral term that allows members of different faiths to pray together without conflict. They maintain that Freemasonry is not a religion and doesn't replace or interfere with a personal member's personal faith. Some of the wilder theories out there involve the Freemasons teaming up with other secretive groups. The Illuminati, maybe the remnants of the Knights Templar, and, you know, building this all star team that then is able to, you know, subvert different governments around the world. The symbols of Freemasonry are obviously, you know, pretty mysterious to outsiders, and they exist all over. And, you know, you can find a ton of them online.
- [62:47]
Christos
By the way, look at Jay Z in this photo.
- [62:50]
Mark Gagnon
Oh, wow.
- [62:51]
Christos
That's kind of crazy.
- [62:53]
Mark Gagnon
That does look a little bit like Jay Z.
- [62:55]
Christos
That's not him. That's definitely Jay Z.
- [62:58]
Mark Gagnon
You think so? Oh, wow. I mean, it might be, bro.
- [63:02]
Christos
I don't get why these guys are wearing white gloves, but.
- [63:04]
Mark Gagnon
No, that's a part of it. That's all part of this ritualistic symbolism.
- [63:07]
Christos
Oh, okay.
- [63:07]
Mark Gagnon
I'm sure it means something. I don't know exactly what it means.
- [63:09]
Christos
But keep your hands clean.
- [63:11]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, exactly. But it is fascinating. It is actually worth noting that, like, most of the Freemasons that I knew growing up, for all black dudes, though, like, I think it became a part of, like, black culture in some parts of the country to, like, become a Freemason. Oh, LeBron has one. Oh, interesting. What is the Boule Foundation? Can we look that up? I mean, that's fascinating.
- [63:34]
Christos
Yeah. Where's that in the research?
- [63:35]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, exactly. Right. We gotta. We gotta fire Zach immediately. It's a. It's a black college. Founded hbcu, which, again, sounds crazy, but also at the. That's a good point. But also a lot of these fraternities will, like, recruit, like, high school kids. I knew kids in high school that were part of, like, secret society fraternity things in high school. And specifically in, like, rural parts of the country, like, they'll become a part of, like, these.
- [64:04]
Christos
Like, they were recruited early.
- [64:07]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah. To, like, join, like, these little, like, secret society things. Things. And so they. Yeah, it becomes a whole thing. What's going on at the Boule Society? I don't know. Maybe that's a topic for a different episode, but it is Interesting. All these, like, societies and like, groups crop up. I don't think they all possess secret knowledge, but I do think they're all like, down with each other, you know, and like, they become like homies, which is kind of like a, like a brain gang, like is the best way to put it. What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because I'm sitting here in my beautiful tent, as you can see, every week, day in, day out. And people always ask, they say, mark, how do I have a tent like that? I want to. I want to sit in a beautiful tent and inv. A lover, a friend, you know, someone that I appreciate and adore. I want to give them a good time inside my tent. Well, it's easy. Thanks to the good folks over@bluechew.com. that's right. Bluechew is the original OG brand offering chewable tablets. And what do these tablets do? Oh, I'm glad you asked. They are going to give you the just in a stronger, harder and longer lasting sexual performance. That's right. They're gonna help you pitch a tent any place, anywhere. And the best part, it's all done online. That means you don't have to go to a doctor's office and, you know, talk to them, be like, oh, you know, I'm feeling some type of way. Look, this is not for people that are, you know, lacking necessarily. This is for people that want to have the best experience of their life, whether it's Valentine's Day, birthday, a funeral, who knows, whenever you need it. You never know when you could use bluechew. And we have a special deal for the listeners of this program. That's right. Try your first month of Bluechew. For free. That's right. Completely free. Mark, is it gonna work for me? Is this, hey, it's free. Why not just try it? Visit bluechew.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank Bluechew for sponsoring this podcast. All right, now let's get after it and let's get back to the show. So, I mean, what do you guys think? I mean, you tell me. Is the. Are the Freemasons still running the show? Am I missing something here? I don't know. Again, I believe that at the early part of America, there was an integral society that was needed to, like, you know, subvert power. And like, all the smartest people were a part of it, of course, and all sharing information with each other secretly. But I don't know if they have access to like, you know, Ancient knowledge from King Solomon. But I do think they definitely do all these rituals because, like, it's, you know, kind of like fun and sort of like, you know, cool. And maybe they're doing incantations of some evil spirit to like, gain occult, you know, power. Comment below, let me know. I'll do an updated video and I'll. I'll make an amendment to this. Okay, now let's talk about the Illuminati. That's a fascinating one. People always talk about the Illuminati. Oh, the Illuminati runs the world again. I have my own personal thoughts about the Illuminati, but apparently there is a historical society known as the illuminati. Started in 1776. Pretty important year. As America prepares to declare its independence, something equally radical is unfolding in the little Bavarian town in Germany. With a university professor named Adam Westhaup, he gathers a small group of five students and founds a secret society that would fuel speculation and conspiracy theories for centuries called the Illuminati. Wes Hopp wasn't your average academic who was raised by his godfather after being orphaned at a young age and grew up to be the first non Jesuit professor of canon law at the University of of Ingolslot in nearly a century. This didn't exactly make him popular with the Jesuits, as you can imagine, who had been kicked out by the Pope just a few few years earlier. Weishaupt, known for his love for enlightenment ideals and distaste for religious influence and public life, decided to fight fire with fire. So May 1, 1776, him and his group of students found this thing called the Order of the Illuminati. Their mission, just to challenge superstition, push back against religious control over public life, and expose the abuses of state power. I mean, that's a pretty hilarious goal.
- [68:02]
Christos
It started off as something good.
- [68:04]
Mark Gagnon
I mean, you could argue good potentially. You could also argue, you know, like, it seems like they'd probably be against conspiracy theories, but yet created the most conspiratorial organization of all time ever. So let's not forget their goal, right? To put an end to the machinations of the purveyors of injustice. To control them without dominating them. What exactly does that mean anyway? All future candidates needed approval from existing members before they could join. They also have a strong reputation in the community, a well established family, social connections, and most importantly, wealth. Yes, the Illuminati wanted influential and financially flush individuals who could spread their ideas and expand their reach. In the beginning, the members had three levels. Novice Minervals and illuminated Minervals. What's a Minerval? This is a reference to the Roman goddess of wisdom, Minerva, reflecting the Order's aim to speak truth, knowledge or illumination about how society and the state might be reshaped. The structure of the Illuminati is similar to Freemasonry. Kind of interesting. In the first class, you have, you know, each novice was initiated with humanitarian philosophy until it became a Minerval, then received the order statutes and it could attend meetings. In the second class, you have, you know, a bunch of different degrees inspired by Freemasonry. You have apprentice, fellow master, Illuminatus Major, Illuminatus Dirigens, and the Illuminatus Major supervised recruitments. And the Illuminatus Dirigens presided over Minerval meetings. And then finally, we have the third class. This is the highest degree of philosophical illuminations. And this is priest, Prince, Magus and King seems like a pretty big title, if you ask me.
- [69:44]
Christos
What's a Magus?
- [69:46]
Mark Gagnon
I don't know exactly. I'm assuming this is in connection to the sorcerer of the Acts of Thomas, I believe, or maybe the Acts of.
- [69:55]
Christos
Peter, a member of a priestly castle in ancient Persia.
- [70:01]
Mark Gagnon
Oh, interesting. There's a guy named Simon Magus who is a sorcerer in, I believe, the Acts of the Apostles, which apparently he was able to fly around and people weren't sure how he was doing it. That's what I assumed it was, but maybe it's just a Persian king or something like that. That makes more sense with PR and king right, you know, in front and behind it. So at first, the Illuminati was about threatening. About as threatening as your average, you know, debate club. But this guy Weishaupt had big plans. He modeled the order of the structure on the Jesuits with a dash of dash of Freemasonry. And the members were given fancy code names. And the group had its own calendar that broke up the months by seasons. And, yeah, they renamed a bunch of the months. So, like, autumn, they renamed. They had the vintage month, the foggy month, the frost month. Winter you had the snow month, the rainy month, the windy month. Yeah, this just feels like the Farmer's Almanac. It feels very kind of boring to me, to be honest. The Illuminati grew quickly, though, attracting intellectual politicians and even some dukes. You may be wondering, how do they recruit people? Well, they infiltrated Masonic lodges, using them as recruitment grounds for their own order. So by 1784, they had somewhere between 2,000 and 3,000 members across Europe. And as we know, all good things never Last, the Bavarian authorities caught wind of this group and decided they had enough. So 1784, Karl Theodore, the Duke of Bavaria, banned all secret societies. That makes sense, right? If you're a government official, you don't want some type of secret group of powerful people all meeting all the time. So you gotta kibosh it. So the Illuminati thought that they could fly under the radar. But a year later, Carl dropped the hammer with another edict, explicitly outlawing the Illuminati order specifically. That's wild. Now what happens next is even crazier. Just two years after the ban, police raids on Illuminati members homes, particularly that of Franz Xavier Von Zwack, uncovered secret documents written in a cipher, including plans for a female branch of the order, receipts on invisible ink, and even instructions for performing abortions. Whoa.
- [72:12]
Christos
It's invisible ink. A real thing?
- [72:14]
Mark Gagnon
What do you mean?
- [72:16]
Christos
Is that a thing?
- [72:17]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah. You never played with that as a kid?
- [72:19]
Christos
No.
- [72:20]
Mark Gagnon
You never got like a spy set?
- [72:22]
Christos
Was I that deprived as a kid?
- [72:23]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah. Google invisible ink.
- [72:26]
Christos
Oh, is it like ink and then you have to drop something on it and then you could read what it is?
- [72:30]
Mark Gagnon
I mean, there's a bunch of different ways you can do it. So like you could do it with like light where like, you know, you write a message. Like, this is the most famous one, basically using like a black light. Another one I did as a kid is you'd use lemon juice. You could use lemon juice and highlight stuff. But then if you held it over a fire, all of a sudden just the lemon juice would kind of like burn in.
- [72:47]
Christos
And then the whole paper.
- [72:48]
Mark Gagnon
No, you just hold it over heat and the heat activates the acidity of the lemon juice. And then you can read the. Read the message. I haven't remembered that since I was a kid. Thank you for bringing that up.
- [72:57]
Christos
Yeah, well, you brought it up.
- [72:59]
Mark Gagnon
Well, we did it together. It was more than enough to convince the Duke that these Illuminati folks, we're up to no good. I mean, they're planning abortions. Why? I'm glad that that was the part you took issue with. I'm glad that you were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Invisible Inc. Yeah. No, they were somehow having instructions for abortion.
- [73:19]
Christos
We live in New York, not Texas.
- [73:20]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, that's fair. And apparently, I guess people have been doing abortions for a long time. It's like goes all the way back. The Hippocratic oath. You ever read that?
- [73:28]
Christos
Yep.
- [73:28]
Mark Gagnon
Says specifically no abortions allowed.
- [73:31]
Christos
Oh, really? Does it?
- [73:32]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah. And doctors still say it today. But they took that part out. Kind of funny. So Weishaupt thought he was going to build this brand new secret society and take over the world. Instead, he loses his university job and is forced into exile. The Illuminati is done by 1787, when the Duke issues a final edict that made membership not only legal, but punishable by death. Raises the question, why was this guy so concerned about it? Right? If you're willing to punish people by death, maybe they are doing something you're. You're worried about.
- [74:01]
Christos
Maybe he felt them trying to infiltrate his government.
- [74:05]
Mark Gagnon
That's possible. We got to figure that out. But here's where things get interesting. Instead of slipping into obscurity, Illuminati became the ultimate political Boogeyman. So by 1797, this Jesuit priest named Augustin Burrell published a book claiming that the Illuminati orchestrated the French Revolution. The idea catches fire, spreading across Europe, even to the United States. Suddenly, the Illuminati were behind every major world. Eventually, George Washington himself wrote a letter addressing the Illuminati threat. I mean, that is fascinating. Can we get a fact check on that? That is hilarious. If that's true, he seemed pretty chill about the whole thing. You know, he says, quote, it was not my intention to doubt that the doctrines of the Illuminati and the principles of Jacobism had not spread to the United States. On the contrary, no one is more fully satisfied of this fact than I am. However, he clarified that he did not believe Masonic lodges in America were involved in propagating these ideas as societies, though individual members may have been influenced. Washington emphasized his belief that the Illuminati's goal to undermine government and religion were dangerous and incompatible with American values.
- [75:07]
Christos
It is a real letter.
- [75:09]
Mark Gagnon
Wow. So George Washington knew about the Illuminati.
- [75:12]
Christos
Which means he wasn't part of it.
- [75:14]
Mark Gagnon
Or it's the perfect cover up. Oh, see, the theories never end.
- [75:18]
Christos
George Washington, you sly dog.
- [75:19]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, right. I thought he couldn't tell a lot. Isn't that his whole thing?
- [75:23]
Christos
That's Honest Abe.
- [75:24]
Mark Gagnon
No. What's the whole cherry tree thing? He, like, chopped. He chopped down a cherry tree.
- [75:31]
Christos
Oh.
- [75:32]
Mark Gagnon
And why he like. Something about, like, him being, like, such a good boy? I don't even remember the story. He, like, chopped down a cherry tree because of.
- [75:40]
Christos
Oh, you're right.
- [75:41]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah. It's like this legend that when he was six years old, he received a hatchet as a gift from his, you know, and damaged his father's cherry tree. When the father discovered what George had done and became so angry. And young George bravely said, I cannot tell a lie. I did cut it with my hatchet. Washington's father embraced him and declared that his son's honesty was worth more than a thousand trees. That's a good dad. Shout out to Papa Washington. Now, Thomas Jefferson, on the other hand, he was accused of being a member of the Illuminati. Isn't that wild? Apparently he wasn't, but he was trying to, you know. But, you know, conspiracy theorists are obviously going to believe that he was. Maybe he was. I have no idea. I mean, at this point, all these guys are suspect to me. Federalist politicians and preachers, particularly in New England, accused Jefferson and his Democrat Republican Party of being a part of the Illuminati conspiracy. These accusations were largely based on Jefferson's positive attitude towards post revolution France and his religious views, which some consider close to atheism. That makes a lot of sense. So if this priest puts out a book, it says, oh, the Illuminati was involved with the French Revolution. Then all of a sudden, if you're pro post revolution France, it's like, well, maybe you're. And if he's also already a Freemason, then it's like, all right, well, maybe there's something there. And the theory was used as a political tool to discredit Jefferson. During the election campaign, Jefferson himself dismissed the conspiracy theories in a letter to James Madison, calling them the ravings of the bedlamite. Fast Forward to the 20th century. The Illuminati myth took on a life of its own. By the 1960s, the Illuminati was revived and popularized through a prank. Robert Anton Wilson, a writer and editor at Playboy magazine, along with Kerry Thornley, the co founder of Discordianism, initiated Operation Mindfuck. They began sending fake letters to Playboy claiming the Illuminati were behind various world events. This disinformation campaign gained momentum when Wilson, together with Robert Shea, wrote the Illuminatus trilogy. The novel incorporated numerous conspiracy theories blending fact and fiction to create a compelling narrative about the Illuminati's supposed influence. Make your next move with American Express business Platinum. Earn 5 times Membership Rewards points on flights and prepaid hotels booked on amextravel.com and with a welcome offer of 150,000 points after you spend $20,000 on purchases on the card, within your first three months of membership, your business can soar to new heights. Terms apply. Learn more@americanexpress.com Business Platinum AmEx Business Platinum Built for business by American Express. See this is where I'm like, look, is it possible that there's a group of people or many groups of people that are fighting for global power, you know, involving, like, many wealthy, influential people that are bankrolling? It's possibly. And by blaming everything on the Illuminati, it seems like a perfect cover, if that's what you're doing.
- [78:33]
Christos
For all the other.
- [78:34]
Mark Gagnon
That's what I'm saying. Organizations, let's say us all, right? Me, you, Gabe. Let's say we happen to be the most powerful media organization in the entire world, hypothetically.
- [78:43]
Christos
Right.
- [78:44]
Mark Gagnon
And we were controlling all the world events, getting people elected, performing coups in other countries.
- [78:49]
Christos
Right.
- [78:50]
Mark Gagnon
Who would you want to blame?
- [78:51]
Christos
Julian Dorey, obviously.
- [78:53]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, exactly. You would say it's Julian Dorey's Illuminati podcast right over there in New Jersey that's running the whole thing.
- [78:59]
Christos
Yeah.
- [79:00]
Mark Gagnon
Try to get the heat off us immediately. And he's over there being like, what are you guys talking about? I'm not even involved. Too late. We're already spreading misinformation. That's how it works. So that's why I'm like. All the Illuminati stuff just feels like a red herring. It's like, yeah, what are we even talking about? So these guys put out this misinformation campaign, and this fuels the modern Illuminati conspiracy theory involving elaborate theories with celebrities and world domination. I mean, have you ever seen the Illuminati card game?
- [79:24]
Christos
No, you got.
- [79:25]
Mark Gagnon
Can you pull this up? This is actually a fascinating little thing. So this Illuminati card game came out in, like, the 70s or the 80s. And some of the cards are very, very strange. So, like, look up, like, predictions. It's. I actually want to buy this. This would be a great thing to buy, to be honest with you. Search Illuminati card game predictions. And apparently some of the cards, some of them are fake. So, like, they get, you know, like, blown out of proportion. But some of them are, like, very strange. So, like, the epidemic. So, like, use the. So there's a way to play the game, I guess. Or like, the Pentagon. Click on that one. Like, infamously, you know, the Pentagon.
- [80:02]
Christos
But this seems like satire.
- [80:05]
Mark Gagnon
It might be, but also there's all these weird predictions that go along with it where it's like.
- [80:10]
Christos
But the charismatic. Go back to the charismatic leader card if you can, Gabe.
- [80:15]
Mark Gagnon
Mm.
- [80:16]
Christos
Okay. I don't know.
- [80:17]
Mark Gagnon
I thought.
- [80:18]
Christos
I thought it looked like trump for a second.
- [80:20]
Mark Gagnon
Zoom in a little bit. So I think people are like, yeah, look, at his golden hair.
- [80:23]
Christos
Yeah.
- [80:23]
Mark Gagnon
So again, but this came out in the 90s, this card.
- [80:26]
Christos
Maybe he was banging back in the 90s.
- [80:28]
Mark Gagnon
That's fair. Hold on. Zoom in on what the text says a little.
- [80:30]
Christos
Literally and figuratively.
- [80:33]
Mark Gagnon
The card may be played at any time and counts as an action for the group. It affects the power for one fanatic group is increased to six. No player may have more than one card. Yada, yada, yada.
- [80:43]
Christos
Six. Oh, January 6th. Oh, shit.
- [80:47]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah. So, yeah, there's all sorts of interesting stuff with this. There's also just a bunch of great Trump conspiracies that, like, people don't talk about.
- [80:55]
Christos
We got to do a whole episode about that.
- [80:56]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah. Like, Lord Baron. Have you heard of this? And, like, that whole book. Or like Warner von Braun's, you know, Race for Mars. And, like, the Elon is the guy that takes everyone to Mars. And that these books, like, the Baron one is interesting because it's like this guy Baron, whose dad's name is Trump or something like that. Yeah, it's, like, insane. And it was written in, like, 1912. I mean, what are the odds? Regardless, many people still believe that, you know, many celebrities and elites participate in dark rituals that involve blood sacrifices. And these sacrifices are said to be necessary for gaining or maintaining fame and power. Some claim that these rituals involve animals, while others suggest they only involve humans. The idea is that by offering something of value, these individuals can secure their place in the spotlight again. My whole thing with, like, these rituals, I'm like, it's possible that these rituals happen, right? I think they exist for blackmail. I'm on the Nick Bryant side where it's like, hey, like, have sex with a dog or something. Crazy thing.
- [81:56]
Christos
Yeah.
- [81:56]
Mark Gagnon
And, like, have blood ever. And it's like, yeah, we're gonna compromise you that way. If you ever try to step out of line and, like, pass legislation we don't want, we got you forever. Bang. That's what I'm assuming it is. I just assume it's all power. So I don't doubt that it's possible it could happen. But I don't think that it's to, like, get power from Satan, but maybe it is top.
- [82:14]
Christos
There's one horny guy or kinky guy that does enjoy it or does enjoy watching it.
- [82:20]
Mark Gagnon
So then you give power to the, you know, most depraved people, Right? And then that's how you get them locked in. You're not going to give power to some guy that's incorruptible, that's going to do the right thing and not consider, you know, the interests of the corporations. So people like Jay Z, Beyonce, a bunch of other people have been accused of flashing these symbols, allegedly. And for the record, there are a lot of, you know, funny, you know, hand flashing symbols that go along. And so some people talk about the Illuminati humiliation rituals. Yeah, all the time. Where it's like, oh, you get. This person's got to be, you know, like, in a dress or they got to get slapped. Like, you know, Chris Rock and Will Smith.
- [82:56]
Christos
John Cena naked.
- [82:57]
Mark Gagnon
John Cena naked. These are all humiliation rituals done by the Illuminati that basically get them into the group.
- [83:03]
Christos
Right.
- [83:04]
Mark Gagnon
I mean, maybe I'm down. Whatever I gotta do. I mean, look, these groups are evil and despicable unless they benefit me, in which case I'm completely on board and I'll do whatever they want. Mind control is another major element of these, of this whole thing. So people point to, like, Britney Spears's Public Breakdown, for example, and they cite that. That's a, you know, a mind control program that goes rogue. And, you know, people look at, you know, music videos where you have, you know, Egyptian symbols and pyramids and all seeing eyes. Katy Perry's Dark Horse video, for example, has been accused of maintaining or containing a bunch of Illuminati imagery. Some believing that it's a nod to secret occult themes. I will say there is a lot of media with occult themes. My mom is big on this. I remember being like 10 years old looking at, like, Lady Gaga videos and she was like, look, look. This is symbolic of, like, Jesus and that they're trying to, like, subvert, like, the Eucharist and the Catholic Mass.
- [83:52]
Christos
You look at some of the stuff with, like, Lil Nas X. I assume.
- [83:56]
Mark Gagnon
He'S leaning into it for sure that, like, he's like, an Internet dude. That's like, oh, absolutely. Or like Google, like, Michael Jackson Illuminati album cover. This is like a famous one that my mom would point out. Be like, look at how weird all this stuff is. But yeah, there's like, yeah, like, have you seen this album cover before?
- [84:14]
Christos
Yes.
- [84:15]
Mark Gagnon
So, like, there's all sorts of, like, weird symbolism in this that people have dissected for years. Maybe we do an episode on that and zoom out really quick. There's other stuff in here. Like, click on that one in the middle. What do you see? What ground is he standing on? Right.
- [84:30]
Christos
Checkerboard.
- [84:31]
Mark Gagnon
Checkerboard. And then there's just a ton of stuff. The Monarch mind control, like, the butterflies Everywhere.
- [84:36]
Christos
Meantime, he had nothing to do with the design of that himself.
- [84:40]
Mark Gagnon
So that leads the question, who does?
- [84:44]
Christos
The people that killed him.
- [84:46]
Mark Gagnon
Exactly, exactly. Lee Harvey Oswald. Well, like, in that case, it's like, okay, these are deliberate, you know, symbols that are being used. Why are they being used? Like, you see the All Seeing eye down in the bottom right triangle, you see the triangle, you see the Pillars of Boaz. It's like all this. And the question is, like, why? Yeah, it's a good question.
- [85:06]
Christos
It's a good question.
- [85:07]
Mark Gagnon
Because, like, at this time, I don't know if it was done to be provocative.
- [85:12]
Christos
You don't think some artists are taking shrooms and they're like, oh, oh, let's do this on this CD cover.
- [85:17]
Mark Gagnon
It's possible. I mean, I bought this whole book, this giant coffee table book that was super expensive just because I loved the artwork.
- [85:22]
Christos
Yep. Never used it once.
- [85:24]
Mark Gagnon
I was like, how sick is this?
- [85:25]
Christos
I just move it around from around to the studio and it's so heavy.
- [85:28]
Mark Gagnon
Like, I don't even know what this stuff is. I just think it looks cool. Yeah, it does look cool, but maybe they think it looks cool. Or maybe they're dog whistling to people being like, yo, I'm down with the squad. You know what time it is?
- [85:38]
Christos
Possibly.
- [85:39]
Mark Gagnon
I don't know. There's. There's a long tradition of looking into these kinds of things. And then people obviously talk about, you know, celebrity deaths and replacing them with clones. Avril Lavigne was a super famous one. People say that, like Eminem, Jamie Foxx, you know, people like that, they get killed and their clones replace them.
- [85:56]
Christos
Yep.
- [85:57]
Mark Gagnon
That, to me, is like the hardest one to believe because I'm like, I don't know.
- [86:00]
Christos
I don't know. Have you seen the different way they.
- [86:03]
Mark Gagnon
These people look different and like, they go offline. And also when you have unlimited money.
- [86:08]
Christos
And they get older, I don't know, get on drugs.
- [86:11]
Mark Gagnon
Maybe I'm just sounding like a maybe. Maybe I'm a Illuminati apologist. Yeah. But I'm just like, I just need a little bit something more tangible.
- [86:20]
Christos
Give me some evidence.
- [86:22]
Mark Gagnon
I don't know. Like, I've been around some famous people.
- [86:26]
Christos
Okay.
- [86:27]
Mark Gagnon
And I assume, like, oh, at a certain point I'm gonna get to a level of success where I'm gonna get invited to the party. Right. I'm gonna see the thing, I'm gonna find that just hasn't happened. Part of my whole.
- [86:40]
Christos
Are you sure?
- [86:41]
Mark Gagnon
Maybe I'm just missing it my whole reason.
- [86:43]
Christos
Maybe you don't remember.
- [86:44]
Mark Gagnon
How about this? How about we try to make the show the biggest podcast on the planet? Okay?
- [86:50]
Christos
We're already doing.
- [86:51]
Mark Gagnon
On our way.
- [86:52]
Christos
Okay.
- [86:52]
Mark Gagnon
But maybe the audience at home, they. Okay, I then become this massive, you know, public figure. And then if I ever get invited to these weird parties, I'd watch Eyes Wide Shut, you know, type thing. Yeah, I'll disclose what happens.
- [87:06]
Christos
Sure.
- [87:07]
Mark Gagnon
Hand to God.
- [87:08]
Christos
Let's work on it.
- [87:09]
Mark Gagnon
Guys, I'm.
- [87:10]
Christos
You realize your mom's not going to be down for this.
- [87:14]
Mark Gagnon
So far, I've gotten way more successful than I ever thought I would, to be honest with you. I'm a kid from Florida. I didn't think this was going to happen for me, okay? And at this point, I figured I would have seen something weird. I just. Maybe there's weird stuff that I'm not privy to. Maybe they know. Maybe I'm just too dumb to notice it.
- [87:29]
Christos
Or there's VHS tapes with you doing stuff that you have no idea exist.
- [87:34]
Mark Gagnon
But if I don't know they exist, then how can I be blackmailed?
- [87:37]
Christos
Well, once you hit a certain level of popularity, that's when they get you early.
- [87:42]
Mark Gagnon
Then they send me the vhs. They go, remember this?
- [87:44]
Christos
Look what Mark Agnon did when he was 27.
- [87:46]
Mark Gagnon
AI. It's all AI. All right? Just don't believe the hype, okay?
- [87:51]
Christos
Including this episode.
- [87:52]
Mark Gagnon
This is all AI specifically. Okay? Anyway, so there's all this stuff, all right? There's all this, you know, conspiracy that surrounds it, which all of it I find very fun. I enjoy diving into it, don't get me wrong. I just. I don't put all the stake into it that some other people do. And it is very funny and kind of ironic that it goes very much against Weishaupt's original idea of what the Illuminati was supposed to be.
- [88:15]
Christos
Right?
- [88:15]
Mark Gagnon
I find hilarious. And maybe one of the funniest things about the Illuminati is that it has become kind of a blank slate now. It's kind of a meme. It's become like a joke. But, like, it was like a blank slate for a long time for, like, fears and anxieties. And it started with one guy that blamed the French Revolution on them, and maybe they were a part of it. I don't know. I need to look into what that guy's book says. I'm not going to write him off as a crazy guy. We got to look into it. Who knows? Maybe they are pushing for a new world order. I'm not opposed to any of this. Maybe it's called the Great Reset. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe it's, you know. Was that guy's name Claus Schwab? Have you heard of this guy?
- [88:51]
Christos
Charles Schwab?
- [88:52]
Mark Gagnon
No. Look up this guy Claus. K, L A U S like Santa. He is the executive chairman of the World Economic Forum, and people have accused him of being the new head of the Illuminati, whatever that is.
- [89:06]
Christos
Okay? He looks like the head of the Illuminati.
- [89:08]
Mark Gagnon
If you were to cast an evil guy in a movie, you'd be like, yeah, this guy for sure.
- [89:11]
Christos
And Alan Ald could play him in the movie.
- [89:13]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's. It's interesting, but people have pointed out that, like, the Great Reset and these kinds of ideas, like, you'll, you know, you'll own nothing and you'll love it.
- [89:23]
Christos
Right?
- [89:23]
Mark Gagnon
We're going to eat bugs. And people have attached themselves. My mom, specifically, she's like, they're going to make us eat bugs. I'm not doing it. I don't eat bugs. And I refuse. So let the record show for now. I'm still on the good side. I'm. Don't let them trick you into eating bugs, okay? Owning nothing. You'll love it. I mean, so far, I like Spotify. I don't own music anymore, and I freaking love it, to be honest. But shout out the Illuminati. They've done a pretty good job so far. Now let's talk about the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. This is a fascinating one. The Hermetic Order of the golden dawn basically burst into London's occult scene. 1888. Founded by three Freemasons, William Wynn Westcott, a coroner Samuel Liddell McGregor Mathers, a translator of occult texts, and William Robert Woodman, a physician. The myth is that they, you know, created this. This fictional thing. They claimed their authority came from mysterious German adept named Anna Sprengel, who supposedly provided them with cipher manuscripts containing ancient magical secrets. Later research proved these documents were likely fabricated by Westcott himself, but I've never looked into that. Maybe they're. Maybe they're legit. Who knows? Despite the origins, the golden dawn quickly attracted Britain's intellectual and artistic elite. Unlike previous occult groups that merely discussed theory, the golden dawn demanded practice. Their system was a practical magical curriculum that combined Egyptian mythology, Kabbalah, alchemy, Tarot, astrology and ceremonial magic into a cohesive system designed for one purpose. To give members direct experience of supernatural realms and powers. All right. I mean, that's. That's something the order operated through a strict hierarchical structure with color codes, color coded grades based on Kabbalah. Kabbalah, Tree of Life. Let's search that up. The Kabbalah Tree of Life.
- [91:16]
Christos
I've definitely seen this.
- [91:18]
Mark Gagnon
New initiates start as neophytes in the outer order, progressing through grades like Zelotar Thoracus Philosophis before reaching the inner order called Rose Rube, Aroa, Crucius, Ruby Rose and Golden Cross. Sounds like Rosicrucianism. Each advancement required mastering specific magical techniques and passing examinations. The rituals were elaborate. Members wore robes decorated with magical symbols, wielded wands, daggers and swords, performed ceremonies in temples adorned with Egyptian, Greek and Hebrew imagery. Oh, we see the Tree of Life here of Kabbalah. We should look into this. Maybe we do an episode on that. That sounds interesting. I would love to get a Kabbalah expert on the pod.
- [91:58]
Christos
Maybe they're Madonna.
- [92:00]
Mark Gagnon
Wait, who?
- [92:01]
Christos
Madonna.
- [92:01]
Mark Gagnon
Oh, yeah, she's like, apparently, but like Hollywood Kabbalah. I don't even buy. I want, like a real proper OG rabbi to break down all the Kabbalah stuff. That'd be fire. So the techniques that they use might seem familiar to modern occultists, but in Victorian England, they were groundbreaking. Here are some of them. Scrying, a technique used to enter visionary states by gazing into reflective surfaces like crystals, black mirrors, or even still water. The goal was to quiet the conscious mind and allow deeper subconscious visions to emerge, whether symbolic messages from spirits or glimpses into the past or future. So scrying is fascinating. There's a famous obsidian SCRY from John Dee. Could you pull a picture of that? John D. Was like, this famous occultist that has this, like, obsidian mirror that he would use to SCRY and talk to spirits and stuff. And, yeah, practitioners would typically dim the lights, focus their gaze on the reflective surface, and then let their mind slip into a trance. Over time, images would begin to form, often starting as vague shapes before becoming clearer. The experience was similar to lucid dreaming or deep meditation, with the scryer acting as a passive receiver rather than actively controlling what appeared. Yeah, this. This one right here, you can see John Dee's obsidian mirror. And it was actually made out of this thing that we have right here, this somewhere. Arrowhead made out of obsidian, like the hardest naturally occurring materials you can see. If it's like perfectly flat, you actually get like a good mirror out of it. It's very black. I mean, again, I'm one of these people that's like, if you meditate, like, strongly, you can start to See and hear stuff for sure. What that is, I don't know. When I pray and I feel something, I'm like, oh, that's God. But is it possible you could meditate and like. I don't know. I've heard people say, like they can meditate and feel like they're tripping on shrooms. I've heard people say they can meditate and like they hear voices, they hear God talking to them. Astral projection is another thing, if you've ever heard of that. This is the practice of consciously separating your awareness from your physical body and traveling to non physical or astral forms. Essentially the idea is that your consciousness can leave your body and explore different realms. Some people believe these experiences are literal, like your actual soul or energy leaving the physical form. While others see these as powerful mental journeys as a way to explore consciousness. And then there's invocation, another powerful ritual practice used to embody divine forces, allowing practitioners to temporarily take on the essence or presence of a deity, spirit or higher intelligence. Unlike simple prayer meditation, invocation has an active and immersive experience, more like stepping into the mindset or energy of a God. There's famous versions of this like the, the Seth tapes. Have you ever heard of this? You can pull up the Seth tapes. This is a. This was an. Audio recordings and transcripts here. Go back to that. Audio recordings and transcripts of sessions where Jane Roberts channeled a non physical entity who called himself Seth, offering teachings on the nature of reality, human potential and spiritual growth. So literally this woman who I believe is like a medium in the 60s, channels this person Seth or this deity, and then is speaking, you know, through this deity. The law of one is another famous one where basically another medium and like kind of an occultist basically channeled Ra, like this deity, the sun God from Egypt, and spoke to Ra. And now there's like all this law of one material and you can listen to all the tapes and read the whole book. And now there's like almost like a quasi religion surrounding the idea of speaking to this deity through a medium. Pretty fascinating. What is happening there? I have no idea. Genuinely, I'm curious.
- [95:39]
Christos
Right?
- [95:40]
Mark Gagnon
Probably too curious.
- [95:40]
Christos
The Seth thing was the most interesting to me.
- [95:43]
Mark Gagnon
It's effectively the same thing. You're channeling this deity that's speaking to you. Not unlike talking to Michael Masters who claims that, you know, he had a chakra alignment and then downloaded this information from a deity or like spoke to a deity outside his house.
- [95:55]
Christos
Right.
- [95:56]
Mark Gagnon
I don't know. It's like again, I don't doubt that these people are claiming that this is happening or that they feel that it's happening. What's actually happening? I have no freaking idea. I'm not gonna mess with it, though. That shit freaks me out. So how do they do these, These invocations? They recite sacred names and chants to align with the entity's energy. They use symbolic gestures and tools like robes or wands, and then dramatic identification, essentially acting as if they were the entity adopting its posture, voice or mindset. And then there's Enochian magic. This is a system of angelic communication and ritual magic developed in the 16th century by John Dee, who we just talked about, advisor to Queen Elizabeth I and his scryer, Edward Kelly. They claimed to have received the system directly from angelic beings who provided them with the intricate and divine language, sigils and structured magical hierarchy. When the hermetic order of the golden dawn revived D's work, they expanded on it, believing Enochian magic to be one of the most powerful forms of ceremonial magic. The system was complex, involving Enochian calls, which are basically ritual prayers in the angelic language, specialized sigils, and a unique four elemental watchtower system representing cosmic forces. Whoa. Yeah, that's a lot. So basically this, I'm assuming, coming from Enoch, where they're like, using this, like, magic power to try to, like, you know, speak with entities. Some occultists consider it the nuclear option of magic. It's extremely potent, but potentially dangerous if mishandled. It wasn't just about summoning spirits, but stepping into a cosmic order that, according to Dee and Kelly, had the power to reshape reality itself. And then we get to the tattva visions. This was a technique that was used that basically they would. They would use geometric symbols called tatvas as gateways to deeper states of consciousness and elemental realms. These symbols, often painted in bold colors, represented five classical elements. So you've got the prithvi, which is earth, that's a yellow square. The apas, which is a silver crescent, and that's been linked to water. The tejas, which is fire, it's a red triangle. The vayu, which is air, it's a blue circle. And then the akasha, which is the spirit of the ether, a black or deep indigo oval. You can see all the tatva visions here. Practitioners of this would focus intently on a tatva symbol, either drawn on paper or visualized in their mind's eye. By meditating on it, they believe that they could enter a trance like state and project their awareness into the elemental plane it represented. This allowed them to gain hidden knowledge, receive visions, and even interact with spiritual beings tied to the element. Then you got geomancy, an ancient form of divination that involves interpreting patterns made by tossing handfuls of dirt, drawing random dots on paper, or marking the ground. These patterns, when analyzed, reveal insights about the future. And it's, I guess, similar to, like, reading tea leaves. You basically look at your tea leaves, be like, however this landed is aligned with your chart and your astrological kind of signs.
- [98:53]
Christos
They do that with Greek coffee as well.
- [98:55]
Mark Gagnon
Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. And then Tarot and astrology, obviously, people are familiar with tarot cards as a way to tap into the subconscious and communicate with spiritual forces and navigate, you know, personal issues that you're dealing with. And, you know, they. I've never really messed with tarot, to be honest with you. This. This is all the kind of stuff that just, for some reason, just freaks me out.
- [99:15]
Christos
The last thing you want is that death card.
- [99:18]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah.
- [99:18]
Christos
Now you're just walking around looking for it.
- [99:20]
Mark Gagnon
Like, I don't know, it just seems like. I don't. Why would you mess with this stuff? But apparently this stuff is all super, super popular. I mean, like, astrology and, like, horoscopes still popular even to this day, but people were doing this stuff for a long time, specifically in Europe, you know, around the. The 17, 1800s. Occultists use astrology not just to understand fate, but to time rituals and invoke planetary energies. So it's not just like your little white girl obsession. It's the language of God. And when, you know, it's just at the right hands, it's not just about seeing the future, but making it. Whoa. So that guy W.B. yeats, that we talked about before, famous poet. I've heard his name before. I don't really know anything about him, but apparently he incorporated magical symbolism throughout his writing. So actress Florence Farr, who developed magical techniques using sound and voice. And then horror writer Arthur Machen, whose supernatural fiction drew directly from golden dawn concepts. And then Annie Horniman, who financially supported the Order while pursuing her own magical development. And then the artist Moyna Bergson Mathers, who created much of the Order's artwork and ritual implements. Wow, that's fascinating. And then, of course, you got old Aleister Crowley. Couldn't be doing an occult episode without that guy coming full circle. He's one of the most infamous members, joined in 1898. He's obviously, you know, super talented as an orator and as a charmer. But he's also a troublemaker, so his presence only made tensions within the group worse. Crowley moved up the ranks quickly, but when leadership refused to let him advance further, he didn't take it well. So out of spite, he leaked the Order's secret rituals in his magazine, the Equinox, breaking the secret oaths of the secrecy that he had sworn. Wow. Golden Dawn's actual practices were far more extreme than the respectable facade suggested. The members actively attempted to contact non human entities through rituals. Their advanced techniques included the Onakian chess. This was a unique four player chess variant created by the golden dawn that basically each piece was tied to earth, air, fire, water, making the game more than just a battle of the wise or the wits, but was a mystical tool for unlocking knowledge. And then the flying rolls. These are instructional papers circulating within the golden dawn that, you know, covered techniques like clairvoyance and magical attacks and shape shifting. This just sounds like fucking Hogwarts, bro. This is wild. Like, you gotta wonder if, like, they had any breakthroughs or what was going on. I can't imagine you join this group and just think it's all like, these guys got to be getting something out of it, right? Maybe they just like being a part of the squad.
- [102:03]
Christos
I think at a certain point it becomes a ceremonial to do when some of these things, they don't even believe in them.
- [102:09]
Mark Gagnon
Maybe. Yeah, I have no idea. Or maybe like they're just having these meditative psychic things where like they're seeing stuff in their mind's eye, maybe they're doing drugs, I don't know. Probably they have a bunch of other things they're using the tatvas, they're using, you know, scrying and, you know, of course they're using sex magic. So sex magic wasn't officially a part of the golden dawn teaching, but Crowley was, you know, he was, he was all about it. So he created his own magical system called Thelema. One of the most controversial parts of the golden dawn was its connection to the non human entities. And members again claimed that they talked to angel spirits and secret chiefs. Golden dawn leader Samuel Mathers insisted that he got direct instructions from these beings. But not everyone bought it. His exclusive access to the Secret Chiefs became a source of tension that only this guy could talk to the secret chiefs and no one else. But then we have Aleister Crowley and his encounters with the entity known as Lamb. This is one of the strangest and most debated moments in occult history. In 1918, while in New York, Crowley conducted a series of magical rituals known as the Amalantra, working with his Scarlet Woman, Roddy Minor. A scarlet woman was a term Aleister Crowley used to describe his female magical partners, particularly those who participated in sex magic. The concept comes from the thelemic philosophy where the scarlet woman represents the goddess of Babylon, who is a divine feminine force and a power of sexual energy. But in Crowley's system, the Scarlet Woman wasn't just a lover. She was a channel for magical energy. Using sex, magic and drugs, they entered trance states where they claimed to make contact with an intelligence that would be known as Lamb. You can see a picture of Lamb right here.
- [103:46]
Christos
Jesus Christ.
- [103:48]
Mark Gagnon
Now what does Lamb look like to you? Chrisos?
- [103:50]
Christos
That's, that's a gray.
- [103:52]
Mark Gagnon
That's an alien, right? So people have pointed this out. Now this is prior to, you know, the alien, you know, like lore that exists in America today. This is prior to Betty and Barney Hill's abduction in the 50s. So at this point, no one had ever seen or talked really about like, gray aliens. But yet here's Aleister Crowley talking with this entity that many people are like, oh, this is obviously an alien. So he included this in his drawings in 1919 at the Dead Souls art exhibit in Greenwich Village and published it in the Voice of Silence, mysteriously captioning it the way Crowley didn't write much about his interactions with Lamb, almost as if it was normal to communicate with him, but he described it as a communicator from extraterrestrial sources. After Crowley's death, occultist Kenneth Grant took this idea even further. He believed Lamb was trans plutonian and that Crowley's ritual had opened a portal between dimensions, allowing non human intelligences to enter our world. So by the 1970s, this guy Grant started the Lamb Workings, a series of rituals designed to invoke Lamb. He even suggests that Lam was connected to a group of entities called the Great Old ones. Borrowing from H.P. lovecraft's cosmic horror mythology, some modern occultists even believe that Crowley's rituals weakened the barriers between worlds and that all these abduction stories and stuff came because of him, because all these abductions happened, you know, after Aleister Crowley had channeled Lamb. So was Crowley unknowingly the first person to contact a modern ufo? Or did he tap into something far older, something that had always been there, waiting for an invitation? Either way, the order's cohesion didn't really last long. By 1900 was falling apart, doing, you know, due to a bunch of reasons. You have this guy Mathers who's talking to, you know, the Great chiefs. And, you know, that's creating a dictatorial leadership that people are mad about. Questions about the authenticity of the founding documents that people are now reading to those disputing that they were actually ever, you know, secret. And it's just they were drawing from other stuff. Personal conflicts between the members, financial problems, and then obviously Crowley publishing the secret teachings. And the final split happened after a chaotic magical battle between Mathers and Florence Farr's faction in London. Both sides were resorting to banishing rituals and magical attacks against each other, turning the conflict into a full blown occult showdown.
- [106:08]
Christos
Wow.
- [106:09]
Mark Gagnon
When the dust settled, the golden dawn broke off into several rival groups. Alpha et Omega, Stella Matutin Matutina and the Holy Order of the Golden Dawn. Each claimed to carry on the original teachings in their own way. Despite its brief formal existence, the golden dawn had a long lasting impact. Their system formed the backbone of Western ceremonial magic as practiced today. Their techniques spread through various offshoots of organizations and later popularized in books by Israel Vergardi, who is Crowley's former secretary, who published the complete golden dawn system in the 1930s, believing his techniques deserved preservation despite the secret oaths. While they claimed to be reviving ancient wisdom, the golden dawn was actually highly innovative. They took bits from different magical traditions and blended them into a new system in ways they operated like this research lab for magic, I guess, systematically experimenting with altered states of consciousness, meditation, and they thought that they could teach magic through testing and replication. The golden dawn was surprisingly progressive for its time. Women participated as full equals, which was rare in an era when they couldn't even vote. The order welcomed members from all walks of life, from aristocrats to professionals, making it more, you know, socially diverse than many others. And their views on sexuality were also relatively liberal for Victorian era, despite, you know, some of the sexual morality stuff regarding Aleister Crowley's sex magic that played a major role in the Order's eventual fallout. So for all their spiritual ambitions, the golden dawn was still made up of flawed human beings. The organization was riddled with ego clashes and power struggles and probably some mental illness here and there. And as a result, the whole thing fell apart. Kind of ironic that they were trying to, you know, build a society to transcend the material world, but instead ultimately fell apart because of human failings. But their legacy lives on. Obviously you have Yeats's poetry, Crowley's Thelema, you know, which shaped Western esotericism, and then even Carl Jung's ideas echo the beliefs that symbols and rituals unlock the subconscious. Many modern magical Traditions are shaped by the Golden Dawn, a Wicca power, you know, borrow from their rituals. Chaos, magic took their experimental approach, but dropped the rules. So were they contacting spiritual, you know, or supernatural entities, or were they just doing, you know, psychological tricks and just getting into altered states of consciousness through drugs or meditation? You know, believing that they were talking to some entity, but actually just talking with their own subconscious? Who knows? I mean, it's all pretty fascinating. What do you think? Which one was your favorite secret society? Christos.
- [108:46]
Christos
Knights Templar were pretty dope.
- [108:48]
Mark Gagnon
They're pretty cool. They seem like good guys, right? They're trying their best. They're trying to save people. Are they killing some Muslims? Maybe? You know, who's really to say what's going on? We gotta ride with the Catholics. And did they start the first bank?
- [109:00]
Christos
Right?
- [109:01]
Mark Gagnon
So the Jews stole it from us. That's what I'm saying. It's like it all goes back to the Catholics. All right. I think they're cool. I like that. The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. I mean, that one's crazy.
- [109:12]
Christos
Well, that one's like a superstar team. An all star team of different factions.
- [109:17]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, they had some time to perfect the magic. My thing is just like, if they have all this magic, why didn't they use it better, right? Like, didn't Crowley die as, like, a drunk or something? I don't know. Like, there's got to be a better way. Or maybe that is the corrupting power of magic, that if you use magic, you talk to these entities, you might gain renown or wealth, and this brief time you're on Earth, but yet you die from some type of crippling ailment because it's like a Faustian bargain. No deal doesn't come without a debt. I don't know. It's all very fascinating. What do you guys think? I would love to know. Did I miss anything? Are there any secret societies that I left out? Is there anything that you wanted to know more about that I happen to gloss over? Or is there anything that I said incorrect that you would love to correct? The record? I would love to know. I read every single comment. Every single one, even the mean ones. And I just lay in bed and I go, ah, damn it, this guy hates me. Alfonso. Something something. Six. Five, six. I think some an idiot. I read them all. So comment. Let me know if I missed anything and I will bring it up on the next episode. Especially if we do another one on secret societies and the secret teachings of all ages. Christos, anything you'd like to add.
- [110:24]
Christos
Love you guys.
- [110:25]
Mark Gagnon
Gabe, anything. Peace and blessings to all. Thank you so much. Come see me on the road. Check out the merch. I would love to see y'all rocking it. And as always, this is camp. It's happening multiple times a week. We've got religion camp, and we're building out our own secret cults and secret society. So join us. Peace. If you've made it to the end of this episode, that's because you rock with us. And for that, we rock with you. You are sophisticated. You enjoy honest, true communication. A highbrowed type of person that understands this History is not just dates and names. It is a tapestry of human triumph and tragedy. From the day Nostradamus made his first prophecy to the morning Paul Revere took his midnight ride from ancient oracles to modern revolutionaries. That is why I need you. If you have not already, please sign up for Today in History. Our free newsletter. Today in History brings you the stories that matter, the moments that changed everything, and the secrets hidden in time. Join thousands of history enthusiasts who get their daily journey through through time. Don't let another day of history pass you by. Take the conversation to your inbox. Sign up now through the QR code or link in the description Today in History because history's stories shape tomorrow's world. Thank you for watching the episode. We'll see you next time.