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- [00:02]
Red Bull Announcer
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- [00:28]
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- [00:30]
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- [00:51]
Mark Gagnon
That's why you rack in 2025, an independent researcher went on the Joe Rogan podcast and casually just said, there's a UFO in Egypt. And the crazy thing is, he might be onto something. He was talking about a real scan of a real site. A 40 meter long metallic tic tac shaped object sitting in a giant underground room 200ft below the sand, right next to a 4,000 year old Egyptian pyramid. And the craziest part isn't just the scan, it's that the pyramid above it sits top of a lost structure that the Greek historian Herodotus said was more impressive than the pyramids of Giza. And in 2008, when a team of geophysicists tried to actually map what was underneath the pyramid, the Egyptian government allegedly shut down the entire project on the grounds of national security. This is the story of the Hawara labyrinth and the theory that one of the most famous UFO shapes in modern history might have been buried in Egypt for thousands of years. It sounds crazy, but just wait. It gets crazier. So sit back, relax, and welcome to camp. What's up people? And welcome back to camp. My name is Mark Gagon and thank you for joining me in my tent where every single week we explore the most interesting, fascinating, controversial stories from around the world. From all time, forever. Yes, that is what I do in this very tent as I deep dive in all the craziest rabbit holes and wormholes and other different types of holes that I can get myself into. I am just so fascinated by everything that's going on. Specifically in this modern era. Things are getting stranger by the minute and oh boy, do we have a very strange episode today. Now, before we jump in, I just want to say a few things. First off, I want to say thanks to you, dude, and lady, whichever one you are, or neither. Because I want to say that this show is not possible without you clicking on this video. Every time you click on this support the show comment, anything like that, you help the show grow. You help my dreams come true. You help keep the lights on in the 10. You keep the fire burning here at the campsite. I also want to say thanks to my good pal Christos Papos. Christos is the Greek freak. He's the man on the ones and twos, and he keeps this entire operation running, and I don't know how he does it. What do you think, Christos? How do you do it? What's up, everybody? I asked you a question. How do you do it? Dude, I can't reveal any secrets. Why? That's a shame, because I'm going to be revealing some of the most interesting secrets of all. And this is one of these stories that sounds crazy, but then you kind of look into it and you're like, wait a second. Is it. Is this. Is this legit? Like, it's. It's fascinating, okay? But we're going to break it all down, and I'll give you my theory as to what is actually going on underneath this pyramid. But last thing before we begin. There's a secret society that not that many people know about, and it's one of the most coveted and mysterious societies there is. And it's found@patreon.com Camp Gagnon. Now, in this secret society, you're going to be getting live monthly zoom calls with me and the rest of Squad hanging out, chopping it up. You're also going to get every single episode of this channel, plus history, plus religion camp ad free. No more ads for you. Bang. You're also going to be getting bonus episodes that no one else actually gets access to. It is the secret teachings that are only available to the secret society members. And that's@patreon.com Camp Gagnon. And for all of this, it requires a sacrifice of just about a cup of coffee every single month. That's all you have to sacrifice. It's like five bucks. And you're gonna get all of that monthly. Now, let's jump into this, shall we? When people are thinking about the Egyptian pyramids, they're thinking about Giza. Yes. They're thinking about these three massive limestone pyramids just outside of Cairo. And it's got the works, right? This is the Egypt. When people are talking about Egypt, you got the Sphinx, you got the camels, Taurus, you get the, the work. But about 60 miles south of Giza, there is a region called Fayum. And there is another period that not that many people talk about. It's a pyramid that almost no one really talks about, unless you're like an Egyptologist or like a nerd about pyramids. And it's called the Pyramid of Hawara. It was built around 1850 BC by a pharaoh named Amenemhat III, the sixth ruler of Egypt's 12th Dynasty and as they say, the last great king of the Middle Kingdom. And today the pyramid looks pretty rough. You can see it here, it's kind of sloped to the side, sort of, sort of mound shape, not really pyramid. It's not the most clean geometric pyramid like the ones that are in Giza. It's actually eroded so much that the people have actually called it the melting pyramid. And that's because Adam Hutt III built it differently than the Giza pyramids. He used mud brick core wrapped in a limestone outer casing. And when the casing eventually got pulled off centuries later for building materials and other projects, the brick core that was exposed to the slowly started to just basically melt into what it is today. Most tourists will drive right past it and they don't even realize that it's a significant pyramid, like one of the oldest in the world. But to be honest, the pyramid isn't even necessarily the most interesting part about Hawara. Greek and Roman writers claimed that sitting next to Hawara and next to the Hawara pyramid was a structure that they claimed was so large and so complex and so full of rooms that it made the Giza pyramids look unimpressive by comparison. And they called it the Labyrinth. So in the 5th century BC, around 450 years before Christ, the Greek historian Herodotus, a, you know, the guy that historians literally call the father of all history, went to Egypt. And by the time he gets there, the pyramids of Giza were already over 2000 years old. Think about that. He's going there to see 2000 year old pyramids. That's like you going to see like, I don't know, the holy Sepulcher or like the tomb Jesus is buried in. Like, think about that, that that's how distant this was to Herodotus by the time he gets there. And the Hawara pyramid that he's going to see is 1400 years old. Like, I mean, it's, it's crazy. And in his book Histories, Herodotus describes visiting a structure next to the Hawara pyramid that blew his mind he says in his own words that the labyrinth surpasses even the pyramids. And he describes 12 covered courts, six facing north, six six facing south, all enclosed within a single outer wall. And inside, he claims, the building had two stories. And here's the number that everyone fixates on. He says that the labyrinth contained 3000 rooms, 1500 above ground, 1500 below the ground. Herodotus says that he was allowed to walk through the upper level himself, but when he asked to see the lower level, the priest in charge refused. They told him that the underground rooms contained the tomb of the kings who built the labyrinth and the tomb of sacred crocodiles, and they were off limits to any outsiders. Here's a crazy fact. The Fum region where the Hawara pyramid sits was the cult center of the Egyptian crocodile God Sobek. There was an actual city nearby that the Greeks called Crocodilopolis because the locals literally worshiped a living crocodile and would give it like jewelry and gold, and they even mummified it when the crocodile died. So when Herodotus is talking about sacred crocodile tombs and stuff, he's not exaggerating. Archaeologists have actually found mummified crocodiles in the area, some of which are 15ft long. Think about that. Like they're pulling up like this sounds like a Florida ass religion to me. You know, I mean, like, I know some Floridians that are not far off from just straight up worshiping a little crocodilia. Pull a gator up and just be like, I mean, I, I know some UF fans. I mean, they're hitting the the chomp chomp all day.
- [08:42]
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- [08:44]
Mark Gagnon
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- [08:46]
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- [08:49]
Mark Gagnon
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- [08:51]
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- [09:11]
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- [09:41]
Mark Gagnon
It's also the most stereotypical Greek name for something. Crocodilopolis. Yeah, I mean, am I even pronouncing that correctly? You've called me that as my last name. Yeah, I have. Christos. Crocodiles. Anyway, back to the labyrinth. Herodotus wasn't the only ancient writer who would talk about this. So the Egyptian priest Manetho documented it around 200 BC as a, like a monumental royal tomb. Diodorus Siculus wrote about its incredible engineering warning that a visitor would get hopelessly lost in all of the loops without having a very smart guide with him. And then a Roman geographer, Strabo visited around 25 B.C. and described a massive temple complex basically with like palace, like halls. And then even Pliny the Elder wrote about it in the first century AD and said that it was already 3600 years old and at his time. So you have all of these independent ancient sources across roughly 500 years, all saying the same thing, that there is a structure at Hawara bigger and more complex and more interesting than the pyramids. And then somewhere between Pliny the elders time and I mean like, I don't know, the modern era, it just disappeared. So by the time European archaeologists start digging at HAWAR in the 1800s, there's basically nothing left of any type of labyrinth on the surface. The first serious excavation was led by a German Egyptologist named Carl Richard Lepsius in 1843. And he identified the site at the likely location of this labyrinth that everyone's been talking about. But most of what he uncovered turned out to be Roman era tombs built on top of it. And then in 1888, the most famous British archaeologist of his era, Sir William Flinders Petrie, showed up at Hawara. Now Petrie is a legend. He basically invented modern scientific archaeology, meaning that instead of just like bust into tombs, Indiana Jones style, looking for gold, he taught people to actually like catalog their findings to preserve it for future generations to learn from. And at Hawara he discovered something strange. A massive man made stone foundation roughly 1,000ft by 800ft, just sitting south of the pyramid. I mean, to give you an idea of the scale, I mean that's like 14 football fields completely paved over in stone, all done by hand thousands of years ago. And it was sitting exactly where those ancient writers claimed that the labyrinth used to be. Now Petrie measured it, he mapped it and concluded that he had found the foundation of the labyrinth, of this maze. And the structure itself he believed has been completely dismantled in antiquity and the stones hauled away over centuries to just build other stuff in the region. But he also found something inside the pyramid. After tumbling for weeks through this mud brick core. And Petrie reached the burial chamber and discovered a corridor that he named the Blind Passage. And when he broke through, all he could find was a tunnel that appeared to lead nowhere. He couldn't figure out what it was for. And no one ever since then has ever figured it out either. He pushed on and found the actual burial chamber, which contained two sarcophagi, one for Amenhemhat III and one likely for his daughter, Sobek Nepheru. And she eventually became Egypt's first confirmed female pharaoh. But then he simply just kind of packed up his gear. He was like, look, I discovered these two very famous, you know, pharaohs and mummies. And I found a cool little corridor that goes nowhere. And that was it. So to him, the mystery of Hawara was just solved. It's like, I found the labyrinth, I found the people that built it. We're good. He had explored the pharaoh's tomb, and he was happy. But he ultimately came to one conclusion. Over the centuries, the Romans and later kingdoms had used the labyrinth as a stone quarry, literally, that they just came through, dismantled the walls block by block, and they built roads and houses and, you know, trade routes. And so with the tomb already looted by robbers and the labyrinth essentially wiped off the face of the earth, Petrie figured that there was nothing left to dig for, and he closed the case. And for over a century, the rest of the world agreed. But the stone plateau, that didn't sit right for a lot of people because the more researchers looked at it, it didn't look or behave like a foundation. So the layer that Petrie called the foundation was actually sitting on top of something, something that he never got to. And that is where the modern story begins. Hey, real quick. Most people who watch this channel aren't subscribed. And when you subscribe, you help the channel grow and you stay in the loop with every new drop, Religion, Camp, History Camp, and Camp Gagnon. Now let's get back to it. So Fast forward to 2008. There's a Belgian artist named Louis de Cordier, and he organized something called the Mataha Expedition. This is a joint project between Egypt's National Research Institute of Astronomy and Geophysics, Ghent University in Belgium, and the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities. And the goal is very simple. Scan the Hawar site with ground penetrating radar, a technology that uses radio waves to map subsurface structures without actually Digging, and it's basically the same kind of tech you would find, like, you would try to use for like unmarked graves or like bunkers or, you know, stuff like that. So they scanned the area south of the pyramid, essentially the area that Petri thought was the labyrinth's foundation. And what they found rewrote this entire story. According to the published results, at depths of like 8 to 12 meters below the stone plateau, the radar detected something strange, a grid like network made of walls from a highly conductive material, likely granite or some other type of conductive stone arranged in a structure like, like a gridded pattern over a massive area. So in other words, the stone plateau that Petrie thought was the foundation was actually the roof. So perhaps the labyrinth was never destroyed. It was just buried underneath the structure that he had been standing on the entire time. The team presented these findings at Ghent University in the fall of 2008, in front of the Belgian press and all their academic colleagues. But within weeks, the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities, which at the time was run by Egyptologist Dr. Zahi Hawass, issued a communications blackout. Researchers were ordered not to publish any further details on grounds of national security concerns. So what does that mean? No, that basically means that there's no follow up, there's no official report, and no excavation permits were issued. But it doesn't stop there. According to Ben van Kirkwick of UnchartedX, absolutely amazing researcher and YouTuber, and we'll talk more about him in a second. But there's a follow UP expedition in 2009 by a joint team from Cairo University and a Polish university allegedly performed additional ground penetrating radar scans and confirmed the labyrinth findings. But the lead researcher at Calvary University was reportedly jailed and lost his job. And the findings didn't actually surface publicly until 2017. Now, there's an important caveat here because the jailed detail comes from Ben Van Kirkwick's account of the report, and it hasn't necessarily been independently verified by mainstream news organizations. But the 2009 Cairo Polish scan itself is real, and the Mataha findings sitting, you know, unexplored for nearly two decades is a documented fact. And me personally, I trust Ben, and you know, I like him as a guy, so I suspect that he's probably telling what he believes is the truth. So now you have a confirmed underground grid structure at Hawara with documented ancient sources describing exactly the type of complex sitting right there that the scans are picking up. And the Egyptian government apparently has decided that the world isn't allowed to dig there. So at this Point I'm like, all right, maybe that is the foundation. But remember Herodotus talks about there's a labyrinth underneath that he wasn't allowed to go into. And that is where you know, they keep all these tombs. So is it possible that that is the, the grid structure they're looking at is also. Maybe that's just the labyrinth underneath. But regardless, it's either the labyrinth and they're standing on the roof or it's the labyrinth that's underneath and all these thousands of rooms are underneath there and they're just not getting excavated. Either way it's strange. So then around 2015 a UK based company called Merlin Burrows gets involved. Now Merlin Burroughs specializes in satellite based imaging. Basically this synthetic aperture radar or a sar. It's the same kind of technology used by intelligence agencies to like find underground bunkers and like missile silos and stuff. The company is led by a guy named Tim Akers who used to work at the Royal Air Force Menwith Hill, which is a famous British signals intelligence base that was operated jointly with the United States nsa. So this isn't just like some random dude with the metal detector. This is a guy with like a very deep and a very like, like a high pedigree in military satellite imaging. Their scans of Hawara, kept under non disclosure agreements until 2025 allegedly revealed an even bigger picture than what the Mataha operation had shown. According to Merlin Burroughs findings, the underground complex at Hawara isn't just a grid, you know, 8 to 12 meters deep. It's a multi level structure with at least three to four distinct levels extending to a depth of roughly like 60 to 100 meters below the. I mean that's like, like 200, like 300ft down. So the total footprint of this underground complex is reportedly equivalent to like 10 football fields. The scans also picked up a strange omega shaped or like ring like feature around the site which researchers have interpreted as maybe as like a symbolic boundary, you know, as a place where like the souls go or you know, maybe like an ancient water management system. But then there's a part that set everything on fire. They detected an anomaly in what looks like this massive central atrium deep inside the structure. It's roughly 130ft long and it doesn't match any of the surrounding stones according to their scans, which again it's difficult to confirm. They said that it looks like it's metal and it's currently freestanding in the middle of this open chamber. And the shape it returned on the scan was described in one report as tic Tac shaped. Now the researchers nicknamed it Dippy. Now, I just want to be honest here before we get way too excited, there are some technical scientific objections to these findings. So this SAR technology, Synthetic Aperture Radar from satellite, it is a genuine and legit technology. It is fantastic at, you know, imaging surfaces and even like shallow subsurface features. But the depth of what we're looking at at Hawara, you know, look like 200 or 300ft. It is pushing the technology is technically capable of. Skeptics, including aerospace researchers have pointed out that you would need a ground based seismic tomography or a deep penetrating GPR to actually confirm anything at those depths. So a 40 meter long or, you know, 100 foot plus long tic Tac is not fully confirmed. No one has actually drilled into it. No one put a camera down there. At least. It's not publicly available. But the radar has definitely scanned something that looks like a dense, metallic, oblong Tic Tac thing. So why does this Tic Tac shape get people so excited? Well, in order to understand that, you have to go back to November 14th of 2004. Off the coast of San Diego. There's two F18 Super Hornets launched from the USS Nimitz. And they were diverted from a training exercise to investigate a radar contact that the USS Princeton had been tracking for days. The contacts had been doing something physically impossible. There were basically these, these shapes or like these craft that were, you know, off the coast of San Diego and they were dropping from 80, 000ft in the air to 20, 000ft in less than a second. Then they were hovering for hours, then climbing back up. And the lead pilot is a guy named Commander David Fravor. He's a Top gun graduate with 18 years of experience. And I mean, he's the commander of the elite Black Aces fighter squadron. He's legit. So with Fravor and his wingman, Lieutenant Commander Alex Dietrich, location and they first saw a section of ocean churning white as if something massive was like below the surface. And then above the water, hovering, they saw this small, smooth white object. In Fravor's own words, it was about 40ft long, shaped like a Tic Tac mint. He said it had no wings, no rotors, no exhaust, and no visible means of propulsion. And even crazier, when he tried to intercept it, the object accelerated past him at a speed that he later estimates was 3,600 miles per hour, aka Mach 5, and then disappeared. About a minute later, radar on the Princeton actually picked it up 60 miles away. Now, The Pentagon eventually declassified the gun camera footage from a follow up flight. And then the New York Times broke the story in 2017. And this term, Tic Tac UFO became a permanent fixture in the UFO space. And you know, a term for one specific shape of these unidentified craft. So you see the connection here. When a 40 meter metallic object that scans claim is, you know, tic tac shape and it turns up under an Egyptian pyramid, the comparison here isn't that crazy. It immediately connects this ancient Egyptian mystery that, you know, at least a handful of different historians have talked about. And then this scan that shows up that seems strange with a modern declassified military UFO encounter. Which brings us to the man whose comment made this whole connection. Click. So in 2019, Bob Lazar goes on Joe Rogan's podcast. And at one point in the conversation, Rogan asked Bob Lazar where he thought the craft that he was working on had come from. And Lazar said something that he has never said before in public. He tells Rogan that something his partner that he was working with in the lab, this guy Barry had mentioned, quote, left a seed in his mind that at least one of the recovered craft that he was aware of had been found during an archaeological dig. Yes, his exact phrase was this. I think at least one of them was a part of an archaeological dig. So it's old. He didn't say where, he didn't say which dig, he didn't even say if the craft that he was working on personally was the one. But he was clear. At least one of the craft in US Custody is and his understanding ancient, not just old. Now, for six years that comment sat there kind of was like a footnote. Then the Hawara tic tac scan actually surfaced. And then of course people on the Internet start connecting the dots. If Bob Lazar is telling the truth and if the U. S. Has at least one craft that was archived or received from an archaeological dig, where could such a craft have come from? As a matter of fact, I actually think David Grush in his congressional hearing also says that there were craft that were uncovered from an archaeological dig. So now you have Babazar and David Grush at different times, if I'm not mistaken, saying that the United States has non human craft coming from archaeological digs. Now the answer that Bob Lazar gives here isn't proof of anything happening at Hawar specifically. He doesn't say Egypt, he doesn't name the pyramid, but it's the only public statement from a self described insider that had allegedly worked on these Types of craft that places a UFO inside an archaeological dig. And it predates the Tic Tac Labyrinth scan by six years. In 2023, the journalist Ross Colthart added even more fuel when he claimed in interviews that he knew of a huge UFO buried outside the United States. And he knew the location. He hasn't said where. But UFO researchers immediately started speculating that he was referring to Hawara, although Colthard never actually confirmed that. And so that's kind of the chain. Ancient sources describe a labyrinth bigger than the pyramids. Modern scans confirm a massive multi level underground structure. Those same scans show a 40 meter metallic anomaly shaped like a Tic Tac. Then possibly the most famous UFO insider says that at least one recovered craft came from an archaeological dig. And then of course, David Fraver says that he sees a tic tac shaped UAP from his F18 jet. Every link in that chain has proof and evidence, but also there's some parts of it that are a little bit contested. But every link is also very publicly documented. Hey guys, we're gonna take a break really quick because I want to talk to you about gld. This is an awesome new company that we're working with that I'm actually wearing right now. Now here's the thing. You probably have the basics, right. You always have like the shoes your go to shoes you always wear. You always got the jeans you always wear. You got that one black tee that makes your biceps pop. You know, we all got like the one fit that we feel nice in, but most dudes are missing the final piece. Talking about the Jesus piece. I'm talking about the jewelry that brings the whole fit together. Yes. And that is where GLD comes from. I actually got this crucifix right here. And honestly, even just getting it, you know, sometimes, like when you work with some companies, you're like, all right, I really hope the product is good. This one is. I. I wear it all the time. This is actually like the new crucifix. I lost my last one at a bathhouse, literally at a sauna. I lost my crucifix, which is maybe God's way of telling me something. But I got a new one from GLD and I've been rocking it non stop. My wife likes it and it's got like a nice weight to it. The details actually look better in person. The clasp is like super solid. It doesn't feel like something you bought, like in Times Square from a random dude. It doesn't feel like somebody ordered from, you know, some. A sketchy Website on teemu. Like, this is the real simple, clean crucifix. And they've got a bunch of stuff. It's not just religious. Like, I throw it on and it just makes me feel like I have like an actual outfit. I just. 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For a limited time, the listeners of this program, Camp Gagnon, Religion Camp, History Camp, and the entire camp universe, you're getting a crazy deal. If you use the code Camp C A M P when you check out, you're going to get 40% off your entire order@gld.com that's 40 off your whole order with the code camp at checkout@gld.com and after you purchase, they're going to ask where you heard about gld. Tell them you heard about them from, you know, the good folks here at the campsite Mark and Christo sent you. And whenever you do that, it really helps, you know, support the show. And thank you so much to gld and thank you to you for tuning in. Let's get back to the show. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because there is a brand that we're working with that I am so stoked on. Truly one of my favorite products, and it's called Ultra. All right. And Ultra just drops something that is going to change the game. It's already changed my life. So the way that I would think about this is whenever I'm tired and I'm sleepy and I'm not sleeping well, I am a worse person. Like, I'll literally, I'll sleep bad three days in a row and everything starts to break down, I make worse decisions. I'm less good on stage, I feel like I'm less good on the pod. Like, I eat poorly, I don't work out as much. And as I get older, I'm realizing more and more sleep is like the only thing that really matters. If I sleep well, I'm in a better mood, I'm a better husband, I'm a better dad, I work out better, I feel better. I mean, everything stems from sleep. Here's the thing, you take like melatonin gummies or something. They're dosed with so much melatonin, it actually will make your sleep worse. Sometimes you'll be too sleepy to wake up. You get like an over the counter sleep med. Like, yeah, that's gonna completely nuke your sleep. And you don't wanna just be like dependent on a heavy duty medication just to be able to sleep like a normal. 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This is the honey lemon flavor. It tastes amazing and it's just, you know, it's nice to do something right now. Here's the thing. I don't wake up. Like, I'm exhausted. I'm not popping like nicotine or caffeine right before I go to sleep. This actually has an ingredient stack back. That makes sense. It has 1 milligram of melatonin, which is a much more reasonable dose. You don't have to like all of a sudden hit like 10 milligrams or something. It also has L theanine, which helps calm the racing thoughts. It's like basically it Just relaxes your central nervous system and it gives you that thing of like, instead of late night rumination, you're like, I'm just gonna go to sleep. It also has magnesium, which you should already be taking to help go to sleep. It also has chamomile passion flour and lemon balm extracts to actually help you sleep better and sleep longer and feel more recovered. And it's not just one ingredient trying to do everything. 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And I'm telling you, I'm putting you guys on game before anyone else. And after your purchase, tell them that you heard about them from the good folks over here at camp. Now let's get back to the show. Now here's where things get even more interesting, because this isn't just like an Internet thing, right? The 2008 Mataha expedition was a legitimate scientific collaboration published in part in the Journal of Egypt's National Research Institute of Astronomy and Geophysics. And the findings were taken extremely seriously, even by researchers who would Never touch any UFO stuff ever. And then in 2023, an American researcher named Mark Corlato published a paper through the Social Science Research Network titled Space Based Ground Penetrating Imaging of the Ancient Labyrinth at Hawara Carlotto used Sentinel 1C band SAR and what they call Alos Palsar L band radar, which are both real satellite systems used by space agencies. And by the end, he independently confirmed the presence of an underground structure at exactly the size that Flinders Petrie had estimated for the labyrinth. So now you have four different surveys. All right, you have Mataha in 2008, you have the Cairo and Polish team in 2009, you have Merlin Burroughs in 2015, and then you have Carlotto's satellite work in 2023, all agreeing that something massive and structured is underneath the pyramid at Hawara. However, the Tic Tac object specifically is what's contested. The Mataha team didn't claim to find a metallic 40 meter object, but they did describe a 2 meter ball of dense metallic material near the center of the Labyrinth complex. The Merlin Burroughs scans showed that there was a 40 meter tic tac that was in the central atrium. And those scans are the ones that mainstream geophysicists have the strongest objections to. In 2025, the independent researcher Ben Van Kirkwyk, who, like I mentioned, runs the YouTube channel UnchartedX, released a two hour video walking through all of this evidence in detail. And that video alone got like, I mean, over a million views, I'm pretty sure. And he went on Joe Rogan twice and walked through the same evidence with Rogan in front of millions of people. And his position is extremely reasonable. He's not claiming it's ufo, but he's pushing for the obvious next step. Hey, let's dig. Let's drill a hole and see what's going on. I mean, the scans suggest that the central atrium where the object sits may actually be above the groundwater table, meaning a targeted excavation might not even require draining like, you know, this flooded area. But the Egyptian government still has not granted permission. And that takes us to the next major issue as to why Hawara has not been excavated. The site is flooded. So in the 1960s, Egypt built the Aswan High Dam on the Nile. And the dam is one of the most ambitious civil engineering projects in modern history. But it had side effects that no one could have anticipated. And one of those side effects is that it caused the groundwater table to rise dramatically. Dramatically. So when Flinders Petrie excavated Hawar in 1888, the burial chamber under the pyramid was completely dry. He walked into it, he stood in it, he documented it. But today, if you go to that very same passage and try to walk through, you're only going to get a few steps in before you're standing in, you know, groundwater and debris and silt and, you know, just a flood. Now, the lower levels of the labyrinth, the levels that Herodotus said that the priest refused to show him, are almost certainly now sitting underneath an unknown amount of seepage from this rising aquifer. Excavating them would require either Draining a massive area or building a localized like coffer dam to box out the water in a targeted section. It's not impossible to do, but it is extremely expensive and slow and of course, politically sensitive. Mr. Beast actually did a video at the pyramids, and in one part, he's actually granted access to swim in that same kind of flooded area. And he was specifically at the temple of Osiris. But the water that he's swimming in is technically the same water preventing excavation into the Hawara labyrinth. So let's work through some of the realistic possibilities of what's going on. And if it's not a ufo, what could it be? Right, Because I think it's, you know, reasonable to try to look at both sides. So option one is that it's not metallic at all. You see ground penetrating radar and synthetic aperture radar, you know, sar both pick up materials based on how they reflect electromagnetic waves. So very dense, wet or salt saturated stone can actually give a signal return that is very similar to metal. So there's a very real chance that the metallic reading is actually just a super dense block of granite or basalt or even just a chamber that is filled with a really high mineral content water. There's another option that it's a buried artifact, but it's not extraterrestrial. So of course, ancient Egyptians worked extensively with copper and bronze and gold and even meteoric iron and the famous, you know, iron of the sky used at, you know, Tutankhamun's dagger, which was confirmed in 2016 to be made from meteorite metal. It could have been, you know, a large ceremonial object or like a buried statue with a metal core or a ritual vessel of some kind. Also, the Egyptians built massive things, so like a 40 meter buried boat. You know, that's not completely impossible. And this is actually pretty common. You know, the Egyptians actually did build boats for royal funerals, like the Khufu solar boat, which would explain a tic tac shaped metallic ish kind of thing to return at that depth. And to me, that seems like a very likely possibility. There's, you know, I actually saw him at the Met recently where people would be buried with, you know, these boats kind of symbolizing crossing the river Styx and taking the soul from our realm into the spirit realm. Now, of course, there's a third option, and that option is that it is a buried aircraft. That is, you know, the opinion or, you know, the option that makes the most headlines. Now, there is no 100% positive confirmed evidence beyond the scan interpretation. This theory again relies on Bob Lazar being correct and also know the interpretation of what he said kind of being, you know, roped into this, that which I think some people are maybe reading into it because again, Bob Lazar never said Egypt or anything like that. And then of course, Ross Coulthardt, you know, hinting about Egypt and potential UAP there. And if that is also correct, which again, people are kind of reading into that as well. And you know, the radar return being correctly identified as metallic and you know, the shape correctly being connected to the tic tac shape that David Fravor talks about, you know, every one of those is kind of contested, not super clear. So the honest answer here is that we don't know. And the only way to find out for sure is to drill. Now, in my personal estimation, I think it is probably option two. I, like I said, I've been to the Met, I've seen some of the boats that, you know, different dignitaries and royals have been buried with. And there's actually another interesting fact here because the boats that I saw at the Met were, you know, probably like three, four feet long. But the Khufu solar boat that I was talking about before, that boat is 143ft long, which is a little bit bigger than the 130 foot Tic Tac object reported from those scans. So Egyptian pharaohs did bury enormous objects beside their pyramids as a part of their funerary rituals. But whether it's extraterrestrial is of course a different question. Now, this story has stayed alive for a few specific reasons, because every time someone tries to dismiss it, there's new evidence that comes up that they can't dismiss. Like, sure, you can dismiss Herodotus as maybe exaggerating, right? Maybe there's not 3,000 rooms, maybe there's like a hundred. But then you have Strabo and Pliny the Elder independently describing basically the same structure. And you can dismiss the ancient writers as mythology. But then you have Mataha's expedition and their ground penetrating radar that finds a grid under the stone plateau, though. I mean, you can dismiss Mataha as a low resolution scan, but then Mark Collado's satellite based imaging independently confirms a structure of the same exact size. And then you can dismiss the metallic object as maybe a radar artifact. But then multiple independent scans converge on the same anomaly. And sure, you can say that Bal Bazaar isn't telling the truth, but his archaeological dig comment is corroborated in a different way by Ross Colton start. So each individual piece of evidence has problems, sure. But the Pattern is sort of lining up. And that doesn't mean that, you know, every conclusion is correct, almost certainly only one of them is. But it just means that the pattern here is real and it's why the story has now gotten the attention of so many people. And then also just the Egyptian government's sort of resistance. Right. The government's position has historically been no excavation. Whether it's a national security stance or an antiquities protection stance or a political thing or, or maybe they're embarrassed by the Aswan Dam, or maybe it's something else entirely. The result is the same, is that this site just sits there. The scan, you know, gets clear every few years, and yet no one is allowed to dig. And if there are artifacts in there, even if it's not a uap, maybe it's just other precious artifacts, they're just covered in water, you know, potentially getting destroyed from the rising water table underneath the ground. Now the gap here between confirmation and speculation is still pretty big, but I do think that, you know, the one thing that can close this gap is actually just digging a hole, even just a tiny borehole, and dropping a camera and a light and, you know, the government letting someone actually do it. And until that happens, the most famous shape in modern UFO history will sit underneath the most ignored pyramid in all of Egypt, described by scans and ancient historians, denied by authorities and just ultimately waiting for someone to decide that it's worth finding out what it actually is. And that, my friends, is the story of the UFO buried under the Egyptian pyramids. I mean, what a fascinating story, right? There's so many elements here that I just think are so interesting. And it's like, it's crazy that there's this much resistance to just like finding out. Like if I was a billionaire, I would throw a couple mil just being like, hey, let's just block off the region, drain out the water and dig a hole. Just put a borehole. Like why, what is the hang up? Then you'd get a poison tipped, arrows thrown at you. I mean, are they not a little curious? Either they're not curious or two, they know what's there and they don't want people to find out which is it. I mean, they did hide it under the worst looking pyramid that I've ever seen. Yeah, that's a tough looking pyramid. That's not. If you, if you're going to commemorate me after my death, Christos, either build a really nice pyramid or don't build one at all. But if you're gonna hide a uap, you're gonna do it. Not. Good one. That's a good point. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? If you're. I mean, if you have like a nice watch in your house, you shouldn't put it in like my super nice watch safe. You would put it like, you know, in a drawer somewhere, just kind of tucked away in a Ford Focus and a Ford Focus in the front seat. Yeah. You don't want to draw too much attention. Right. Like, I think if nothing else, the fact that a giant labyrinth exists underneath the pyramids is fascinating enough. That. That is awesome. I personally subscribe to option two, that it's some type of like, boat or like an artifact that's buried under there. I mean, the Khufu solar boat is massive. It's like, it's pretty thin. It's pretty. It's almost like a giant canoe. But like, it's massive. And that was buried and it was excavated and uncovered. So my assumption, if I had to put money on it, that's probably what I'm going to say it is. But still, we should go figure it out, right? I mean, what's your take? Which option do you think is again? Option one, it's like solidified salt or granite or something like that. Option two, an actual object that was placed there, but not extraterrestrial. Option three, ufo. You know where I'm going. Go ahead. It's a ufo. Do you think so? Everything in Egypt with related to the pyramids screams ufo. Well, I hope one day one of us is right and we can figure it out. I kind of hope you're right, to be honest with you, but I'm not. Assault. What do you guys think? Please drop a comment below. I'd love to know your thoughts. If there's anything on this story that I missed, please don't hesitate to drop a comment and let me know. And as a matter of fact, Christos, remind me. I gotta reach out to Ben. We need to get Ben Van Kirkwick on the show. It would be an absolute honor to sit down with him. And I think that episode would be so fun. I'll make some calls. Appreciate you. Anyway, if you guys are interested in religious content, guess what? We have religion camp. If you like historical content, we have history camp. But if you just like rocking with us here where we're going crazy deep dives, well, you are always welcome twice a week at Camp Gaggon. Remember to check out patreon.com camp gagnon if you want to check out the Secret Society we also got Camp R D. If you want the merch Mark, act on live. You want to see me on the road? And with all that out the way, without further ado, thank you so much. God bless, and I'll see y' all next time. Peace.