Loading summary
Transcript1 lines
- [00:00]
A
In May of 2026, the United States government declassified 162 UFO files. Within hours, one clip in particular went viral. An eight pointed object recorded by a military sensor that many people online pointed out looked exactly like something a Jewish prophet described 2600 years ago by a simple river in Babylon in the Book of Ezekiel. But that is just what's on the surface. A NASA engineer set out to debunk Ezekiel's spaceship and ended up with a US Patent. A sitting member of Congress went on Joe Rogan's podcast and called uaps Interdimensional Beings. American pastors were quietly summoned into private rooms in the weeks before the disclosure. No phones, no cameras, and they were told to prepare their congregations for what was coming. And the question underneath all of this UFO conversation that no one's really asking is this. If UFOs are real, does that mean there's no God? Or does it mean that we have had the oldest evidence of God this entire time? Well, today we're breaking down the possible UFOs from ancient biblical scriptures and modern scientists and professors who are trying to decode what it all means. And we're connecting it to the most recent UFO UAP release from the White House, ultimately trying to find the crux between angels, aliens, and God. So if you were interested in matters of the divine and the matters of the paranormal, well, this is the episode for you. You so sit back, relax, and welcome to camp. What's up, people? And welcome back to camp. My name is Mark Gagnon, and thank you for joining me in my tent, where every single week we explore the most interesting, fascinating and controversial stories from all around the world. From all time, forever. Yes, that is what I do in this tent as I deep dive on the craziest rabbit holes that I can find. And oh, boy, this week we have an excellent one. Okay, I don't know if you've seen. You probably have. The White House just disclosed a bunch of files related to UFOs and UAPs. And many people online have already started drawing the connections between what's in these files and what they believe is some type of illusion or metaphor for alien slash angels and demons in the Bible. And they're saying that it's possible that what's released in these files and what is present in the Bible are somehow connected. Well, today we're going to be breaking all of that down and more. But before we begin, I just want to give a few quick camp bulletins. First, I want to say thank you so much for clicking on this video. Every time you support the channel and every time you click on one of our videos, you help keep the lights onto the tent and you help keep the fire burning here at the campsite. Additionally, there's also a secret society that I want to invite you to. This is a very secret society, one of the most secretive of all, and it is patreon.com camp gagon. It is the place where we gather. It is the inner sanctum of the campsite where all of us, me, myself, Christos, we will go and we discuss what's going on dayto day. You're going to get every single episode of this podcast without any single ad. There's going to be no ads at all. Completely ad free experience. You're also going to get monthly zooms where we tap in with everyone. We just talk live and just chop it up about what's going on, as well as bonus episodes that never even go out to the public because they are just too controversial. And all of that in order to get into the secret society is just a simple sacrifice. One sacrifice will be asked of you, and that is a, you know, one cup of coffee per week. That's it. It is the price of a cup of coffee to join the secret society. And you can find that@patreon.com Camp Gagnon and last and mostly least, I want to say thank you to Christos, my good pal, for being in here every single week with me multiple times a week to discuss the most interesting things of all time. How are you, Christos? What's up, Christos? No time. Because today we are talking about UFOs, aliens and God. Oh man. This is one of my favorite topics in the world and I don't know if there's any better place to start than, let's see, 2600 years ago. Yes, I'm going to take you back to 593 BC. There's a Jewish priest named Ezekiel, and he's living in a forced exile in Babylon, one of thousands of Israelites ripped from their homeland and then deposited on the banks of the Khaybar river in modern day Iraq. And one day, out of nowhere, he sees something that he can't explain. And he describes it in detail. And it is recorded in the book of Ezekiel in the Bible. And what he describes is pretty weird, I'll be honest. He describes a massive glowing storm cloud that rolls in from the north and out of it emerges four creatures, each one with four faces, four wings and hands like a man. And beside each creature is a wheel. But not just any wheel. He describes a wheel within a wheel, spinning, moving in any direction without ever having to take a turn. The rims of the wheels, he writes, are tall and awesome and covered entirely in eyes. Can we get an image of this? That'd be great, Christos. And what he says is that they make a sound, and it's less like a sound. It's like roaring waters, and it's like a rumble of, like an army is the way it's described. And above all of it, suspended in the air, was what appeared to be a throne, and on that throne, a figure that gleamed like fire. So this image that Croesus pulled up is a depiction, one of many depictions, and it is a strange sight to behold. Now, many people have seen this description, and that's kind of all we got. And so as a result, theologians have spent legit two and a half millennia trying to make sense of what that is. Now, the traditional interpretation is that this is a. A vision of God, specifically of God's divine chariot, known in Hebrew mysticism as the Merkabah. The wheels, the creatures, the eyes, they're all symbols of God's omniscience and his omnipresence on earth and the absolute freedom that God has to move throughout the universe without being in any one place. So even in exile, these Israelites that have been banished from their land, even when they had been torn from the promised land that God had given them, God was not stuck. He could move, and he was still with them. That is what theologians will say, but in recent years, this description has kind of taken on a new life. So, like I mentioned before, In May of 2026, United States Department of War, under Trump's directive, released 162 declassified UAP files to the public. The program is called Pursue the Presidential Unsealing and Reporting System for UAP Encounters. And we already did an episode on, you know, generally what's in the files and kind of what I thought about the files. You can check that out. It's the one that came out last week, I guess. Now, the files were posted to a government website called war.gov UFO, if anyone wants to go check it out. Decades of military reports, pilot testimonies, astronaut accounts, photographs, videos. All of it unclassified, out in the open, and all of it basically unresolved, not debunked, not. We know what this is not. This is aliens. Just unresolved. And within hours of the release, one particular clip goes viral. And it is an infrared video from 2013 captured by a US military sensor and submitted to the All Domain Anomaly resolution office by U.S. central Command. And in the video, you see a high contrast object floating in the sky. Eight pointed star shaped Croesus. If you don't mind actually pulling up a video of this, you have arms of like different lengths radiating outward from like this central kind of core. And yeah, you can see the image here. And it's sort of just like floating around and, you know, spinning symmetrical. And according to the government, unidentifiable. No oral description accompanied the report, no explanation, just the footage. And of course the Internet lost its mind. Now, I've seen many different theories as to what this actually is, but we'll get to that in a second. Within hours, people were placing this eight pointed object side by side with medieval illustrations of Ezekiel's vision. A pastor in Texas named Josh Howerton actually posted on X. What I am trying to point out is the very possible overlap between a biblical cosmology and some of the things you're seeing on your timeline. Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna posted an artist rendering of a cherubim, no caption. And the comments start flooding with people who saw exactly the same thing that she saw. And we'll come back to her in just a few minutes because what she said next is one of the craziest parts of this entire story. But first, in order to be precise, because a lot of what spreads online in the first 48 hours is not from the official release, let's just break it down. Hey, real quick. Most people who watch this channel aren't subscribed. And when you subscribe, you help the channel grow and you stay in the loop with every new drop. Religion, camp, history camp and Camp Gagnon. Now let's get back to it. AI generated images, edited historical art, fake overlays. All of that got laundered into the conversation as if it was like a part of the declassified files. But the eight pointed star thing, I mean, that's real. I mean, you can actually see like the image that they put out. I mean, what is it really like? It's not, you know, confirmed, but that image is in the files. And a significant portion of most of the viral, like, Ezekiel UAP stuff circulating that week was just kind of like noise on the back of it. But. But the genuine story is, I think, interesting enough on its own that you don't even need to put in AI pictures. Because the truth is, the Ezekiel wheel as a UFO theory is not a new thing. People have been talking about this for a long time, and it's been contested for, I mean, since, like, the 60s. And the moment it entered into mainstream discourse, it wasn't through a viral clip or anything like that. It was through a NASA engineer who actually set out to prove that Ezekiel's wheel within a wheel was complete nonsense. But he couldn't. So let me explain the story. His name was Joseph Blumrich, and In the early 1970s, he was the chief of NASA's Systems Analysis Branch at the Marshall Space Flight Center. This is the same facility that actually built the Saturn 5 rocket that literally took humans to the moon. He worked on Skylab. I mean, this guy is like the. The top of aerospace engineers in the world. So when theorists like Eric von Doniken started claiming that Ezekiel's vision was actually a description of an extraterrestrial spacecraft, Bloomberg rolled his eyes and he picked up the Book of Ezekiel specifically to just dismantle this idea altogether. He cross referenced six different translations of the Bible with his engineering background, and he ran the numbers and he started building diagrams. But then he kind of stopped. Because what Blumbridge found, what he could not explain, was that Ezekiel's description of the wheels was mechanically coherent. At the very least, it wasn't some type of crazy thing that was, like, completely impossible to recreate the wheel within a wheel structure moving in any direction without turning wasn't just metaphor. It was functional, and some type of omnidirectional propulsion system could potentially work. And Blum Rich actually called it an omni wheel, and the design was derived from Ezekiel's text, and it was so sound that he actually filed a US Patent for it. That wheel design is now literally used on forklifts and space exploration vehicles. This is real. He published the findings in 1974 in a book that he called the Spaceship of Ezekiel. And he wrote that he had, quote, seldom felt as delighted, satisfied, and fascinated by being proven wrong. Now, mainstream biblical scholars push back on all of this a lot. Their argument is that reading Ezekiel as a UAP sighting or proof of aliens or, you know, UFOs, is what academics call esogesis. Basically, the idea that you're projecting modern ideas backwards into an ancient text, rather than just letting the text speak for itself in the context that it was written in. Ezekiel wasn't filing some type of, you know, flight incident report is what they would argue. He was a prophet writing in the tradition of Jewish apocalyptic literature, using symbolic imagery that his original readers would have understood in the context. And I think that's a fair critique from, you know, the religious perspective. But here's the thing. Blumrich wasn't a fringe theorist. He was a credentialed aerospace engineer at NASA who approached the text with the explicit goal of debunking it completely. Like, hey, this thing is purely a vision because it's impossible that it could exist. But instead, he came in on the other side with a functional spacecraft design and a patent. He wasn't applying a modern viewpoint or interpretation to the text. He was trying to decode it and through his own skepticism, actually proved that there was some validity to it. Now, the question of whether Ezekiel saw God or whether he saw something else, something physical, something that moved in the sky with, like, these weird wheels covered in eyes or windows. It's not a new question, right? This is an ancient one that people have been talking about forever. But the May 2026 disclosure, if you can call, cracked this whole thing back open. And for the first time stemming off of Blummerch's original research, it offered a whole new world of possibilities. Now, here's something that most people don't really take into account when they're looking at the Bible. The book is full of descriptions. Beings that don't make sense, encounters that defy physics, I mean, literal miracles, creatures that show up out of nowhere. You know, they. They see these prophets, the prophets get scared, and then they vanish back in the sky. So we've kind of been trained for thousands of years to kind of read past them. I rem. Remember, like, pointing these things out in, like, Bible study, and people would be like, oh, yeah, I don't know, maybe it's. It's a metaphor for an angel, and they kind of just move on. And once you start actually looking at what the Bible says about these things, you realize that Ezekiel's wheel isn't the most strange or confounding thing in there, and it isn't the only thing that could possibly be some type of ufo, if you will. So, for example, just picture an angel, what you think an angel looks like, you know, and you probably saw, like, you know, like, white robes and a gentle face and a halo. Well, that's probably not true. That image, the one that nearly every Christian sort of thinks about, has almost nothing to do with how angels are actually described in the Bible. You see, in the Bible, when angels show up, you know, when, like, they really show up, the first thing that they almost always say is, do not be afraid. And maybe they say that because, you know, the. The awesome power of God is before them and that they're such in close contact with the creator of all things. That people are, you know, reasonably afraid, but it's also very possible that they're terrified because of what they look like. So we actually did an entire episode breaking down biblical angels, so you can check that out. But we're going to do a quick recap here for this episode. So take the seraphim that's described in Isaiah, chapter six. You have this being with six wings each. They cry out to each other in a voice that is so powerful that the doorposts of the temple shake and that the rooms fill with smoke. Isaiah, one of the most important prophets of the entire Old Testament, sees them and immediately says, well, woe is me, for I am undone. He doesn't feel blessed. He doesn't feel like he's, you know, in some type of immaculate divine place. He feels like he's about to die. Or you take the angels described In Daniel, chapter 10, the one that appears to Daniel by the Tigris river, glowing like lightning, eyes like torches of fire, arms and legs like polished bronze, a voice like the sound of a multitude. When Daniel sees it, he writes, no strength was left in me. My face grew deathly pale, and I was helpless. And then, of course, I mean, you take the four creatures in Revelation, chapter four, full of eyes in the front and in the, you know, behind them. Each one a different wild animal, you know, covered in eyes, wings, crying, holy, holy, holy. Without stopping, day or night, for days, weeks, eternity. And this is what the Bible actually describes when they're talking about angels. Not really like, halos and harps and stuff. These are things that moved in multiple directions. They defied physics, and they're covered in eyeballs. Which brings us back to Ezekiel's wheels. It raises these questions about how we see the images that the Bible brings up. What if these aren't, you know, visions of biblical prophets? Or what if it's not just that? What if it is some type of UFO sighting? Now, I know this might seem apocryphal or sacrilegious. I'm just entertaining the idea because many people have brought this up over the centuries. I mean, this is kind of the whole basis for ancient aliens on Discovery Channel, you know. Now, the answer to this question has potentially two different directions. The first is the traditional theological answer that these are just symbolic visions. They're written in this apocalyptic literary tradition that is found in the region, and it has that kind of flavoring. It's designed to communicate God's transcendence using this crazy imagery that ancient readers would have understood as Symbolic, and they wouldn't have taken it literally. And a lot of biblical scholars will just kind of stop there. But the second answer, the one that has been gaining traction recently, isn't that the Bible is wrong or that God doesn't exist. It's actually the opposite. It's the idea that the Bible is describing something real and that we in the modern era have just been misreading what real means. And now we get to something that is super interesting that I love talking about on this podcast that I talk about all the time. And it is this fascinating ancient author who wrote a book kind of about all of this stuff, and it almost made it into the Bible. And his name is Enoch. Now, the Book of Enoch was written somewhere between, like, 300 and 100 BC, predating the Gospels by hundreds of years. It was revered in the ancient world, and it directly influenced a lot of early, you know, Christian theology. The New Testament Book of Jude actually quotes from the Book of Enoch. Jesus's disciples almost certainly would have known the text. I mean, Jesus Christ himself probably was familiar with it. And yet by the 4th century Adam, the church voted it out of biblical canon. They deemed that it was too controversial, too speculative, and too dangerous for widespread circulation for all of the early churches. And so for most of Western history, it kind of was, you know, just undissected and kind of sat there, sort of buried. Now, what does it actually say, though, in the Book of Enoch, it describes a group of angels called the watchers, 200 of them, assigned by God to observe and protect humanity. But instead, these Watchers rebelled. They, according to the book, descended from the heavens to Earth. They took human women as wives and produced a race of hybrid offspring called the Nephilim. And beyond that, the Watchers taught humanity things that humanity was never supposed to know. The Watchers teach humans about metallurgy, about weapon making, about astronomy, about sorcery, about forbidden knowledge, downloaded it to early civilizations from beings that came from somewhere else. Now, the flood, in this telling, wasn't just a punishment for general human wickedness. It was a divine purge to cleanse the earth of what the Watchers had started, this sort of bastardized creation, and to ultimately purge the Earth of the Nephilim. Now, if you read that purely as ancient mythology, as some story that's not canon or inspired by God, about the origins of evil and the dangers of forbidden knowledge, it functions as a really beautiful metaphor. But not everyone reads it that way. Some people read it through a different lens. And if you replace the word angels with non human Intelligence and descended from the heavens with arrived from space or someplace beyond the Earth and forbidden knowledge with technology transferred to pre civilized society. Well, what you're left with is a narrative that reads basically word for word, like some type of modern alien contact story, which is why people are so obsessed with the Book of Enoch. And that's exactly what Erich Von Daniken argues in 1968 in his book called Chariots of the Gods. It was the book that launched this entire ancient aliens, ancient astronaut movement into the mainstream. Von Daniken looked at Ezekiel's wheel, the Book of Enoch, the construction of the pyramids, the Ark of the Covenant, and he basically. He basically said this. What if all of this is evidence of extraterrestrial contact with early humanity? What if the gods that. That are referenced in these books were actually alien visitors? Now, of course, mainstream archaeology rejected it as pseudoscience, and biblical scholars rejected it as heresy. In fact, more evidence in favor of what he has written about back in the 60s has actually been brought up much more recently by academics in the modern era. And one of the foremost scholars discussing this is Dr. Diana Walsh Pasalka. She's a professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina, Wilmington, and a practicing Catholic. She's not a conspiracy theorist. She publishes with Oxford University Press and conducts her archival research in direct partnership with the Vatican apostolic archive. Her 2019 book, American Cosmic, is the product of six years of research into the relationship between UAP belief and religious experiences. And what she's just uncovered, I think, is fascinating. Hidden inside centuries of official medieval church manuscripts buried deep in the Vatican archives, there are tons of records that describe experiences that, I mean, depending on how you read it, they mirror identically to modern UAP and UFO encounters. And the people who recorded them weren't fringe theorists. I mean, they were monks and nuns and Catholic clergy and typically very educated people of their time. She discovered accounts of glowing orbs passing through stone walls, flying luminous objects, small radiant beings approximately like 3ft tall. Encounters accompanied by what witnesses describe as telepathic communication. Very urgent messages, prophecies and warnings about humanity. And these weren't marginal documents scribbled by, you know, crazy people in a village, like, you know, on, like, a random piece of papyrus and being like, hey, check this out. They. These were official church records filed with the same institutional seriousness as accounts of saintly miracles. And the parallels to the modern UAP contact reports, like the orbs, small human figures, you know, telepathic communication. They are, depending on how you look at it, a strange coincidence or telling Some type of through line across 15 centuries of human experience. I mean, Jacques Vallee, who I talked about before, he wrote an entire book kind of documenting a similar type of phenomenon that you have people throughout every culture, throughout all time in history, kind of describing very similar kind of experiences with these things that they can't describe. And sometimes in their, you know, folklore, they'll call them fairies, and they say these fairies, aries came down from the skies and a craft, stuff like that. And time and time again, it seems like people throughout all of history are describing this weird phenomena that they can't really describe. And so they interpret it through their cultural lens. Now, where does that leave us? We'll get to that at the end. But at this point, we have ancient prophets describing this stuff, right? You have Enoch, Ezekiel, Daniel, book of revelation. You have medieval monks recording it. You have modern witnesses encountering something, aerospace engineers and religious scholars trying to, to, you know, either debunk or confirm what they're reading. And you would think by this point, right, 20, 26, like with billion dollar sensors and, you know, the most esteemed scientists and decades of military investigation, that the United States government would have a more clear answer connecting what's going on or at least what's in these files, right? But they don't. According to their official release, they say they are unresolved. But there are senior officials inside the Pentagon who actually have studied this phenomena up close. And the ones with the highest clearances who've seen things that the public will never see, they seem to have come up with some type of answer. And crazy enough, it's kind of the same answer that these medieval monks came up with. And the word that many people have used is demons. Now, I just want to preface this. This is just what people have said. I'm. This is what my mom believes. All right, this is what a lot. I think Tucker has talked about this. Tucker Carlson has talked about, you know, potentially demonic kind of entities. There's another person, I think, J.D. vance, like, kind of alluded to this. We have your mom, J.D. vance and Tucker Carlson, good company right now, this is one of the working theories inside some of the more senior levels of U. S. Military intelligence. And I know it sounds wild, but we know this because the man who used to actually run the Pentagon's UAP investigation wrote a book about it. And that guy is Lou Elizondo. Lou ran the Pentagon's advanced aerospace threat identification program, also called a tip, the government's most serious internal UAP investigation arm that we know about. He spent years trying to get senior officials to take whatever this thing is that's happening seriously. And in his book, in 2024, Imminent Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs, he describes what he kept running into when he did. A senior intelligence official, someone Elizondo refers to in the book as Devin woods, stopped him in the halls one day. And the conversation that followed is not what Elizondo expected. He literally just goes up to him and says, have you read your Bible lately, Lou? And this is what this guy, you know, the person that he's saying is Devin woods, said to him, Lou. Elizondo said that he was familiar with the Bible. And woods pressed even further. He says this. It's demonic. There's no reason we should be looking into this. We already know what they are and where they come from. They are deceivers, demons. Elizondo describes his reaction. He says, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. This is a senior intelligence official putting his religious beliefs ahead of national security. But the crazy part, it wasn't just one person, according to Elizondo, and he has said publicly, including in a February 2026 interview with Glenn Beck, that there were multiple elements inside the Pentagon that actively discouraged UAP investigation, explicitly on theological grounds. So senior officials, people, you know, who believed with complete sincerity that studying UAPS was not a national security problem, but rather a spiritual problem. I mean, that's what they're talking about. They believe that looking into this is actually perhaps the wrong thing to do, that you shouldn't be engaging with demons. And that perspective has its own internal logic. This is the idea that UAPs might be interdimensional rather than interplanetary, that, you know, the difference being the most traditional UFO or alien sort of theories that you have, aliens coming from different planets that come to Earth interplanetary, interdimensional means that they've come from a different dimension, that they're coming from a spiritual dimension, perhaps, and that they might exist in some relationship with the spiritual world rather than the physical world. And it has circulated in serious UAP research circles for decades. So the guy I mentioned before, Jacques Vallee, one of the most respected astrophysicists and UAP researchers in the world, has argued for years that the phenomena behaves much more like a spiritual or a psychological force than a conventional physical force. And what's funny is that he's actually the inspiration for the French scientist character in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. You saw that movie a couple times. Like, Jacques Vallee is, like, literally the inspiration for that part of the film. And Lou Elizondo himself. I mean, the man who thought Devin woods was being irrational has spent years since leaving the Pentagon documenting the deeply strange experiential dimensions of all different types of UAP encounters. I mean, witnesses at UAP events, he noted, often describe experiences that don't fit neatly into this, like, physical spacecraft from a different planet framework. They're more disorienting, more personal, and, I mean, depending on how you read it, much more religious in nature. So he pointed to the Virginia, Brazil case, where the original witnesses, before anyone introduced them to American UFO culture, described what they'd seen as a demon. That was the word that they used. And it was only later, when the UFO community arrived and really started to explain the concept of aliens, that the language shifted. But the experience that they had didn't change at all. Now, if you don't know about the Virginia incident, I did a whole episode with James Fox on that particular one. He did a great documentary on it. You can check it out. But the labels that people use does shift how we look at it, you know, but it doesn't change the experience outright. The labels give us words, right? It gives us the framework to make sense of the experience, and it makes a massive difference. So to ground ourselves back into what's going on right now. All right, the US government has officially confirmed that there are things in our sky that it can't explain. That doesn't mean it's aliens, but they're just saying they don't know what it is. A whole series of files have then been dropped. Senior intelligence officials for years have privately categorized these things as demonic. According to Lou Elizondo, a former head of the Pentagon's UAP program has written a book connecting them to biblical accounts of non human intelligence. And a religious studies professor with Vatican archive access has found tons of medieval church records that describe similar sounding encounters across 15 centuries. Oh, and a NASA engineer set out to debunk Ezekiel's spaceship and then ended up with a scientific patent on this type of wheel structure. Now, none of that proves anything, right? I think that's fair to say, at least not definitively. But it does mean that the question is no longer, if something is going on, the question is still, what is it? And for decades, the conversation has lived underground. It's been, you know, in Pentagon hallways and academic papers. No one reads Vatican archives and, you know, private speculation of intelligence people who, you know, knew that if they said something publicly that they would, you know, lose their job. And of course, it existed on, you know, religious UFO forums and stuff like that. But the rule generally was if you had a job you liked, you wouldn't really say this stuff out loud until August of 2025, when a sitting member of the United States Congress walked out of a classified briefing in Washington D and straight into Joe Rogan's studio. Her name is Anna Paulina Luna. Now, Representative Anna Paulina Luna is not a conspiracy theorist on the fringe of the government. Right. She's a Republican congresswoman From Florida, a U.S. air Force veteran who served as an airfield management specialist with the U. S. Air National Guard, and she also co chairs the Congressional UAP caucus. So she sat inside what they call a skiff. This is a sensitive compartmented information facility and it's basically a way to pin transfer information to people that need to know it in a closed setting. And she has personally reviewed classified photographs that she legally cannot describe publicly. This woman chairs the House Task force on the declassification of federal secrets. She has access to information that almost no one outside the intelligence community has seen. And when Rogan sat down with her and asked her what she believed was actually going on with UAPs and all this stuff, she didn't reach for like the cautious political language you would expect from a sitting member of Congress. She said they call them interdimensional beings. Interdimensional beings, entities capable of operating, in her words, outside of time and space. She said that this wasn't something that she came up with on her own. It was based on classified testimony from credible witnesses. And that's kind of all she, she could give. I mean, we're talking military personnel, intelligence insiders, people who had looked at this phenomena up close and either experienced it themselves or had had, you know, first hand accounts of the people that did and come back with a framework that doesn't fit neatly into any categories that we use in any scientific, you know, literature. And then she actually took it a little further. Luna told Rogan that she read the Book of Enoch not once, but multiple times. She described it as the original text underlying the fallen angel theories that run through multiple world religions. She talked about the watchers, the nephilim, the forbidden knowledge passed to early civilizations from beings that descended from the heavens. She suggested pretty deliberately that the Book of Enoch may have been excluded from biblical canon for what she said are shadowy reasons. And she was careful about one thing. She says, I am by no means saying that aliens are God. But she was equally clear that she is very confident that there are things out there that have not been created by mankind. So coming from a private citizen on a podcast, that's a little bit easier to dismiss, right? Like, if there's like a UFO researcher that says this stuff, it's like, all right, but coming from an Air Force veteran with a security clearance who has sat in classified briefings and skiffs and seen photographs that she can't show you and is a current member of Congress, I mean, it hits very differently. And Luna's most striking move, the one that generated the most traction online recently, wasn't. Wasn't anything that she said on Rogan outright. It was that she posted on X on the same day that the Pentagon files dropped in May of 2026. And it was just two words. It said read Enoch. And then right after that, she posted the Madonna and the UFO. This is a 15th century Italian Renaissance painting depicting the Virgin Mary with what appears to be a flying disc shaped object visible in the background. No caption, no explanation. And of course, the comment section just went completely crazy because that painting, created over 500 years ago, long before the words UFO ever existed, it's a documented piece of Renaissance art. And the object in the sky behind the Blessed Mother Mary looks a lot like what someone would call a ufo. I mean, you can see the image here. So people would point to that thing, they'll be like, and if you see it up close, I guess, obviously with what we have on the screen, it's a little difficult to see. But if you look at it, you're like, well, what is in the sky? Why would that be there? And so people within the UFO community have constantly referenced this piece of art to be like, hey, this is someone, you know, signaling something. And medieval and Renaissance art is full of these types of anomalies. You know, like glowing discs, weird stuff in the sky, luminous forms, you know, above biblical scenes. Most art historians will explain them as symbolic representations of divine light or the Holy Spirit. But other researchers point out that the symbolic explanation and the literal one might not be mutually exclusive. And you're not going to believe me, but it goes even deeper because Luna isn't the only government representative that has gone public with this. Representative Tim Burchett of Tennessee has been one of the longest standing congressional voices demanding some type of UAP transparency going back years before it was ever a politically mainstream thing to do. And he's been a lot of classified briefings, too. He's alleged on the record that Navy personnel, and yet this, have discovered alien bases beneath the ocean that comes from sitting members of the United States government. By the way, he is a Christian. And when Tucker Carlson asked him directly about the intersection of UAPs and faith, this was his answer. I read the Bible. I'm a Christian. The Bible talks about Ezekiel seeing a wheel. People always say, well, that was a dream. They always try to over explain things in the Bible. And then he said something that reframes the whole conversation. He pointed out that Ezekiel's description of the wheel has to be understood in context. At the time that Ezekiel had that vision, the most technologically advanced object a human being could point to was a wheel. I mean, at the time, like, that was like the cutting edge of technology. And so Ezekiel reached for the best vocabulary that he had. He described what he saw using the words available to him in the words that he knew. Right? Like we describe, you know, UFOs as flying, but perhaps they're not flying at all. Perhaps it's using some type of interdimensional gravity thing or something with consciousness. Like. Like we're using the language that we have to describe airplanes to describe this other thing. So it's possible that in the time that Ezekiel was talking about technology, he was just describing whatever the most cutting edge technology was. And this raises an obvious question. If Ezekiel saw something in 593 BC and described it as a wheel within a wheel because that was the most sophisticated mechanical concept that he had access to, what would he have called it if he saw it today? So if you step back and look at the full picture, you have Elizondo's Pentagon officials saying, have you read your Bible? Burchett quoting Ezekiel on Tucker Carlson. Luna telling Rogan about interdimensional beings on the world's biggest podcast. What we're seeing is a convergence. It's a moment where the language of the government and, you know, top people within the church, both in Protestant and Catholic theology and the UAP community are all talking about the same thing at the same time. Time and now the boundary between what the government is calling UAPS and what the Bible has always called, you know, a force of good or a force of evil, God, angels, demons, is now a lot less clear than what anyone has been comfortable with before. And while Luna was sitting in a skiff reviewing classified photographs and Burchett was being briefed on, you know, potentially underwater alien bases, there was another set of rooms in another part of the country where a different kind of briefing was happening. Same topic, same warnings about what was coming. But the people in these rooms were not members of Congress. They were Christian pastors. Hey, guys, we're gonna take a break really quick because I want to talk to you about gld. This is an awesome new company that we're working with that I am actually wearing right now. Now here's the thing. You probably have the basics right. You always have like the shoes your go to shoes you always wear. You always got the jeans you always wear. You got that one black tee that makes your biceps pop. You know, we all got like, like the one fit that we feel nice in. But most dudes are missing the final piece. Talking about the Jesus piece. I'm talking about the jewelry that brings the whole fit together. Yes. And that is where GLD comes from. I actually got this crucifix right here. And honestly, even just getting it, you know, sometimes like when you work with some companies, you're like, all right, I really hope the product is good. This one is. I, I wear it all the time. This is actually like the new crucifix. I lost my last one at a bath house. Literally at a sauna. I lost my crucifix, which is maybe God's way of telling me something. But I got a new one from GLD and I' rocking it non stop. My wife likes it and it's got like a nice weight to it. The details actually look better in person. The clasp is like super solid. It doesn't feel like something you bought like in Times Square from a random dude. It doesn't feel like something you ordered from, you know, some a sketchy website on Teemu. Like this is the real simple, clean crucifix. And they've got a bunch of stuff. It's not just religious. Like I throw it on and it just makes me feel like I have like an actual outfit. I just, it makes me feel good. And they got everything. Chains, pendants, bracelets, watches. Whether you want something subtle or something that's like, yo, I just, I just signed a deal, you know, I mean if you want like the record deal chain, they got that too. They have official collabs with, I mean basically everyone. NFL, NBA, mlb, ncaa, NHL, DC Comics, mls. So you can actually rep your team without looking like you bought merch from like a random dude outside the stadium. Plus they have pieces at every price point. They can get you the entry level 18k gold plated piece all the way up to the solid gold and natural diamond piece. And they even do fully custom pieces. So if you want a one of one pendant, GLD can actually just do that for you. And every single piece is guaranteed for life. Now if I haven't convinced you yet. Let me sweeten the deal a little bit. All right? For a limited time, the listeners of this program, Camp Gagnon, Religion, Camp History Camp, and the entire camp universe, you're getting a crazy deal. If you use the code Camp C A M P when you check out, you're going to get 40% off your entire order@gld.com. that's 40 off your whole order with the code camp at checkout@gld.com and after you purchase, they're going to ask where you heard about gld. Tell them you heard about them from, you know, the good folks here at the campsite, Mark and Christo sent you. And whenever you do that, it really helps, you know, support the show. And thank you so much to gld and thank you to you for tuning in. Let's get back to the show. What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break real quick because I gotta tell you, you something kind of embarrassing. All right. I've been working out pretty consistently for a while. I love working out. I think it's super important part of my daily routine. And I don't really eat garbage, and I'm doing all the stuff you're supposed to do. And I got in pretty good shape. But at some point, I noticed the results kind of just stopped, like, matching my effort kind of around the time that I had a kid. You know, I'd put in, like, the same amount of work, but, like, I wasn't getting the same results. At the gym, I would get, like, a little bit more belly fat. My energy was kind of inconsistent. Recovery was taking a little bit longer, and I assumed, like, I was just getting older, which makes sense, right? You know, guys, when they hit their 30s, testosterone not, like, naturally goes down. And, you know, when that happens, your body literally starts storing more fat and you start losing muscle faster. But here's the thing that messed me up. The more body fat you carry, the more your body actually converts testosterone into estrogen, which makes it even easier to gain this fat. It's a cycle that keeps on going around. And so I started taking Mars Men. And honestly, I've been on it for a while, and I've actually noticed a difference. This is going to sound crazy. This is real, real 2024. I did blood work. My testosterone was, like, fine. It was, like, on a little lower side of normal. And I did blood work recently, completely unrelated to this. And I've been taking Mars Men for, I don't know, maybe like four or five months. My testosterone went Up. Now, I don't know if it's from Mars. I'm not going to say it's only them. You know, maybe I've been eating a little cleaner, I've been sleeping better, who knows? But my testosterone actually got an increase. I mean, I couldn't believe it. It, my energy feels steadier throughout the day, my workouts have been better. And going into summer, I'm actually like leaning out in a way that I feel better about now. Mars Men is a natural supplement. I don't even have it in the studio because it's at my house. There's no synthetic hormones, no sketchy stimulants, just actual ingredients like Tonga Ali shilajit, zinc boron, and they're designed to actually support healthy testosterone levels. Now look, you can just go buy all of these supplements yourself. You can go buy Tonga Ali shilajit, but you gotta make sure they're from the right place. You gotta make sure they're the right quality. And it can get expensive to actually like parse it all together. But with Mars Men, it's just all of it in one already done for you. It's made in the USA, it's third party, tested in every batch, and over 91% of users actually report higher energy. Now here's the crazy thing with Mars men. There's a 90 day money back guarantee. 90 days, three months of trying it out. And if it's not for you, you get your money back, zero risk. And for a limited time, the people are listening to this program. You're going to get 50% off, off for life. I don't know how often this offer comes around. I don't know why they're doing this. 50 off for life, free shipping and three free gifts. MengotoMars.com that's MengotoMars.com for 50 off and three free gifts when you check out. It's also available on Amazon. It really worked for me. I like it. I still take it because, you know, I like natural supplements and it makes me feel good. Now when they ask where you heard about it, tell them the good people at Camp Gagnon sent you. It really helps to show more than you know now. Now let's get back to it. Pastor Mike Signorelli described a room that he was brought into in the spring of 2026. And on the wall of the room it said, no phones, no cameras. And he was not the only one who was there. He was not the only pastor in America who in the weeks leading up to the Pentagon's UAP disclosure was quietly told the same thing. And they were basically told, get ready. The church and your community of Christians are not prepared for what's coming, coming. Now, this story exploded tens of millions of impressions across X and YouTube and Instagram within just a couple of days. And now we need to separate what actually happened from what the Internet has turned it into because they're kind of different stories. So here's what's confirmed. Tony Merkel, host of the Confessionals podcast and a major voice in the evangelical paranormal community, publicly confirmed that he personally organized one of the meetings in question. His goal, he told CBN News, was pretty straightforward. He said the whole point behind it was to prepare pastors for the possibility of what's to come with disclosure so that they are ready for the hard questions that might come from their church. He was also separately invited to a second meeting, this one organized by what he described as a private group of Christian intelligence operators. These are people ostensibly with ties to Washington, people with military backgrounds, with intelligence backgrounds, people who were themselves believers in God and Jesus, who felt that the church at large was not prepared for what they knew was coming, coming. And then came Perry Stone, a Tennessee based televangelist with a massive following who went viral on YouTube with a video claiming that he heard a large number of pastors had been invited to a meeting where government connected officials were very blunt, basically saying they were going to release, you know, a bunch of information concerning aliens and you need to prepare your people. Perry Stone warned that the disclosures could trigger a major crisis of faith, faith for Christians. He raised a theory that had been, you know, circulating in evangelical prophecy circles for years, that the government might eventually use the UAP narrative to explain away the rapture or explain away the divinity of Jesus. That if millions of people suddenly disappeared, officials could frame it not as a divine event, but rather as an alien event. And he asked the question directly, are these demons? Is this a manifestation of fallen angels? What's going on now? Pastor Mike Signorelli, who I mentioned before, based in New York City, confirmed on X that he had been brought into a private briefing with other pastors. Like he said, no phones, no cameras. He wrote separately that the majority of people preaching to congregations on Sunday are not equipped to offer a biblical explanation for what is about to dominate the cultural conversation. So it seems like what we can confirm is that private meetings did happen, happen. Christian leaders with intelligence connections did reach out to pastors. But here's where things get weird, because one pastor took the entire story somewhere that maybe it didn't need to go. You see, Pastor Larry Ragland, a charismatic pastor and a YouTuber, posted a controversial video. And in it, he claimed that Congressman Eric Burleson, a Republican from Missouri who sits on the House oversight subcommittee investigating UAPs, had called him into one of these private pastor meetings and said this. They are preparing to inform us that they originate from another dimension, that they are our creators. There is no God. Jesus was a construct of theirs, and that the Bible was fabricated by them. And that video went crazy. Outrage, fascination. You know, atheists and skeptics are like, told you, you know, millions of views and. But there's just one problem. Congressman Burleson pushed back immediately and denied saying any of that. And then Pastor Ragland was forced to issue a public apology and not acknowledging that those words were his own editorial opinion and not anything that Burleson actually said. Burleson accepted the apology, but the damage was already done and that quote had circulated the globe. But this video does need to be called to attention, because what Ragland did, maybe unintentionally, maybe he was trying to get views, maybe he was saying what was actually said and then it was told to recant it. But it does reveal exactly what a lot of Christians are the most afraid of. That somewhere at the end of this disclosure road is a scary dismantling of your faith, that the end game of all of this is that someone someday standing at a podium would confirm, hey, there is no God, and we can prove it because there are aliens that actually made us. And everything you believe is completely made up by these interdimensional beings that are our actual creators. And that fear is, I mean, very real. It's driving a significant portion of how a lot of Christians and a lot of churches are responding right now. I mean, Greg Locke, a controversial Texas pastor, has been publicly telling his congregation that aliens are demons, framing the entire disclosure as the fulfillment of what Second Thessalonians calls the Great Deception. Pastor Joseph Z told CBN that this is an End Times UFO deception, a spiritual counterfeit designed to pull people away from God. Josh Howerton, the same Texas pastor who was one of the first to publicly link the 8 pointed star UAP thing to Ezekiel's vision, began preaching on biblical cosmology and the unseen realm. The major Christian commentary organization Breakpoint, said the Christian view of UFOs, aliens and UAP remains to be written. The church, broadly speaking, is still trying to make sense of all of this and how it fits into their own theology. Mike Signorelli launched a full written guide for his congregation, UFO Files released what the Bible says about Alien Disclosure, one of the most shared Christian articles, in the weeks following May 8th. But not everyone in the UAP world is okay with the direction that all of this is going. So David Grush, the intelligence officer who testified before Congress in 2023 under oath, claimed the US has operated a multi decade crash retrieval and reverse engineering program, and said that he had personal knowledge of non human biologics recovered from craft, and feared for his life just for coming forward. Grush has been one of the most credible voices in this entire space because of his esteemed background, and he has publicly pushed back on the rush to label, you know, UFOs or UAPs as demonic. Speaking to Judicial Watch, Grush called it theologically premature to frame extraterrestrials as is simply just demonic. His argument goes basically like this. I don't think we as humans understand all of God's creation to use a theological framework on that. Most of this conversation about UFOs and UAPs and God kind of just devolves into two camps. You have like the Devin woods camp that Lou Elizondo talks about. You know, they're demonic, don't mess with it. And then you have the Larry Ragland camp, which is like, like, hey, they're going to say that aliens are real, which means that God isn't. But, you know, of course, the loudest voices in the room aren't always the right ones, because in places that most people aren't looking, like, you know, Cambridge theology departments, Vatican observatories, the offices of biblical scholars with PhDs in Latin or whatever, the third position is starting to form one that doesn't require pretending that, you know, these weird things in the sky aren't happening, but it also doesn't require dismantling your entire faith background. And this theory kind of goes like this, that maybe the answer is bigger than either side can even fathom. So let's look at some of the frameworks that this kind of, you know, alien UFO and faith debacle can kind of be positioned in. And so the first option is that these two things are mutually exclusive. This is the position that says if aliens are real, and if they created life on Earth and seeded early civilization with technology and showed up in ancient texts disguised as angels and gods, then God is just an ancient cultural label for a misidentified advanced species. You know, the supernatural is just the natural that we haven't measured yet. And in that view, aliens are real. And basically every faith is, you know, fugazi but then there's a second option that goes the opposite direction. Some conservative theologians are arguing just as firmly that gods and aliens are incompatible, but for the opposite reason. So gotquestions.org, one of the most read evangelical resources online, states it pretty plainly. The Bible gives us no evidence to believe that there is life anywhere else in the universe. The Bible gives us several key reasons why there cannot be. And in this view, the earth is God's unique creation. Humanity and human beings are made uniquely in the image of God. The incarnation, Jesus. God in human flesh was a singular one time, one planet thing. And if there are other rational beings out there, the theological math starts to get a little bit hairy, right? Like, like, did Jesus die for aliens? Did Jesus die for other human beings that are on far distant star systems? Was there a separate cross in every inhabited world? Did some of these worlds not have the sin of Adam and Eve? So for a lot of traditional theologians, those questions are way too difficult to answer. So the entire premise is, is wrong, right? Like it's all bs. There's one earth, God made us special and aliens can't exist outside of that because Christ died for us. Now there's another option that UFOs and aliens and all that stuff aren't a threat to faith, but they're a confirmation of what you already believe as your religion. And this is a position that's gained a lot of ground the last decade. And the argument basically goes like this. The Bible has always described a populated, hierarchical, non human cosmology. You've got God at the top and then you have a divine council of Elohim. You have these heavenly beings who participate in his governance of creation. And then below them you have angels and they have their own hierarchy. And then below them you have humanity. You also got demons and their whole hierarchy, you got Lucifer. And it's all very clear. It's not like fringe reading. It's based on a careful, scholarly, scholarly examination of how the Hebrew Bible uses its vocabulary. And the person who articulated this the most was Dr. Michael Heiser. His book the Unseen Realm and Angels made a careful biblical case that the scriptures read in their original language and in the ancient context, describes a vast spiritual ecosystem of non human intelligence operating throughout the cosmos. Some are loyal to God, some are fallen angels, but all of them are real. And in this framework, UAP disclosure isn't a threat to Christianity. It proves it right. Because every weird passage you've been told that you know, you should read a symbolic like Ezekiel's wheels, Isaiah's you know, six wing seraphim, the pillars of fire that led Israel through the desert, all that stuff, you know, I mean, Elijah getting taken up in a chariot of fire, the watchers in Genesis 6, like even the Book of Enoch, that's not even in the Bible. Every one of these accounts is telling you that non human intelligences have been moving through our skies and interacting with humanity for thousands of years. So a ministry developed by John Piper called Desiring God says this in a way that I think makes the most sense for this argument. No UFOs are showing up except by the plan of God. If they are fake, fake, he rules over what is fake. If they are real, he rules over what is real. There are no cracks in complete sovereignty. So that basically says that, you know, this, this is that whatever we're seeing in the skies, all these UFOs, all this stuff, they're actually angels or they're actually demons and they exist for one reason. And what is described in the Bible, you know, in the modern day would have been described as a ufo. And that, you know, they're effectively the same thing and Christianity is true and that these things need to be treaded with very carefully because they're interdimensional dimensional. And then there's another option that says that they can just simply coexist. And this is a position that maybe the fewest people take partially because it doesn't really satisfy like the militant atheists that are like yeah, of course there's aliens, they just haven't come here. Like we're not that special, God didn't create us in any way. You know, evolution is, you know, the most viable thing and they probably evolved on their own, right? Etc, and it doesn't also satisfy like the militant fundamentalist, that's like God created us specially, he sent his one only son to die for us. But this other option kind of has some academic weight behind it. So. Dr. Andrew Davison is a theologian at the University of Cambridge, one of two dozen scholars invited to a NASA funded project at Princeton center of Theological Inquiry. And at this conference they were specifically tasked with studying the societal and theological implications of what they call astrobiology. He argued in considerable detail that Christianity may actually be better equipped than any other worldview to absorb the discovery of non human intelligence out there in space. Because the Christian worldview has already affirmed a populated non human cosmos. Right? Angels, in his words, are an example of life beyond earth mentioned in the Bible and featured in the Christian imagination, however different they might be from other biological life life. His Argument is based on something that theologians call divine accommodation. The idea that the Bible was written to communicate with humanity in human terms, in cultural categories, its original audience would get. The Bible never claims to be an exhausting catalog of everything God ever created. Its silence on extraterrestrial life isn't a denial, but it's just not what the book is about or what we need as human beings on Earth or what the audience needed at the time. Time. But it doesn't preclude that there could be more. I mean, interestingly, the Catholic Church's official position kind of falls here, and it's actually supported by the Pope and the Vatican observatories, which have employed actual astronomers studying the cosmos for decades with access to obviously all of their archives. The Vatican's view, articulated multiple times by church officials, is that if extraterrestrial life were found, it would simply fall within God's limitless creativity activity. The discovery of life beyond Earth wouldn't shrink God, but it would reveal God as an even bigger creator than we once thought. The astronomer Carl Sagan, not exactly a Christian by any sense, once asked a question that gets quoted a lot in this debate. He said, how is it that hardly any major religion has looked at science and concluded this is better than we thought? The universe is much bigger than our prophets said, grander, more subtle, more elegant. God must be greater than we ever even dreamed. And that is the doorway that this theory kind of opens up that, yeah, maybe there's other life out there and God created that also. And how it works for them, and whether Christ died for them, we don't know exactly. That's something that we need to deliberate on. But if it's proven, it just proves that God is even greater than we once thought. And maybe there's life that exists on faraway planets, and maybe there's also interdimensional beings that are interfacing with us right now on Earth. Earth. And both of those things are happening. And God allows for all of it. He allows for us to be, you know, for angels to interact with us. He allows for demons to interact with us. He allows for other non human intelligence or maybe human intelligence that exists far off in the cosmos we've never contacted, and that also exists. And maybe all of it is happening at once, all in God's plan. And in that theory, it basically says God is real, sovereign, omniscient, controls the cosmos, created every, everything. It also says that there are technically aliens that live off in Zeta Reticuli that have their own, you know, society that we've never come in contact with. It also says that, hey, maybe some of those beings did come here at one point. It also says that angels, demons are interacting with humanity, and maybe that's also what's being disclosed. And maybe all of that can coexist and work together. I mean, whatever is in the sky or in the ancient text or in the classified files, it seems like something's going on, on. And for most of human history, who knows, was kind of the answer, right? A prophet by a river, a nun by a convent, a pilot on the coast of California. They all say the same thing, with different worldviews and different vocabularies across thousands of years. And then they go home and the world goes on and life kind of takes on its normal shape. But as of Right now, in May 2026, the United States government, arguably the most powerful government that exists on the planet ever in history, says, says, hey, we can't explain this. The burden of the question quietly kind of shifts over. It moves from the prophets to the pilots, to the files, just to you. Yeah, dude, it just kind of falls on you. It's like, all right, this disclosure, which I don't even think it's really a disclosure, it doesn't answer anything. It just kind of hands the question to everyone. And we all sort of need to deliberate on this, right? I mean, something's going on, on whether, you know, it's aliens or what. I mean, something's happening and it's occasionally being witnessed by people who go home and write it down. And the entire arc of human history has been, in some sense, trying to figure out what it is. And we're not the first people to question it, and we're definitely not going to be the last, but we definitely are the people with the most data. I mean, if Ezekiel was right and it wasn't a metaphor, and the wheels are real and the eyes on the rims were real, or maybe they were windows, or maybe there was something else and the four faced creatures were real then. The most uncomfortable implication isn't that we're not alone. It's that we were never alone. And whatever has been watching us or observing us or visiting us, or interacting with us has been doing so for a very, very long time. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a brief summary into the intersection between God, UFOs and aliens. I mean, it's a fascinating topic. It's the thing that I always was most gripped by when it came to, like, the UFO or UAP topic, because it's like, like as Someone that grew up very Catholic, my mom would always say, like, these things are probably demons. But I think the most holistic, all encompassing worldview is the last one that I mentioned near the end there, where it's like God creates everything. He creates our universe, he creates these other planets and maybe other things live on those planets. Maybe they don't live in this exact timeline that we're in right now. Maybe they lived on these planets a million years ago. Maybe they're going to live a million years from now. Maybe they're living concurrently with us. God could do that. I mean, why would he make rooms that he doesn't populate plate? Right? Like, would you, you know, would you make a, a bedroom in your house that you just left blank? Some people do. Who does that? Really? Rich people? No, they. Rich people fill it up with West Elm. You know what I mean? Or like Restoration Hardware. They'd fill it up with random stuff. They never go in there, but they have it. So I'm like, if you're going to have a room, you're going to paint the walls, you're going to put some stuff on it, and maybe there's a reason and maybe things are populated there, maybe they're not. But also though, angel and demons could also be real and they could also be interfacing with humanity and we might just be looking at all of it and trying to put into one box when really there's multiple different things all happening at once. Like maybe one person in their lifetime can be visited by an angel and in the middle of the night they see this bright light and they feel this intense sense of calm and peace or whatever. Or maybe they see this giant winged thing with eyes and they're like, okay, I just saw an angel. And then five years later, maybe they see an actual spacecraft or some type of, you know, ship from a different planet that also comes to Earth. And they also see that. Are the two things discounting each other or excluding each other? No, they can both exist within God's omniscience. And so you have those two things that are happening simultaneously and then God is still in the picture because he created everything and exists outside of time, space and everything else. So it's like there's a world where all these things work together. Now why are pastors getting brought in to talk about this? That is where I get some skepticism. That's where I'm like, my thing with the UAP UFO stuff has kind of always been like, I feel I'm not like the most confident that like, aliens are, like, messing with us on Earth all the time. Like, I'm almost, to be honest with you, a little more comfortable with the idea that it's like, it's only angels and demons. But again, I don't know. But the fact that you have all these, like, evangelical prophets or pastors, rather, getting brought into, like. Like, how do you talk to your community about this one? To me, it seems like it wasn't, like, a super official thing. I feel like when the story first circulated, people were like, oh, like, the government's bringing them in. But it's really just like a group of people connected to the government that are also Christian that want to share with their congregation so that people retain their faith. And so in that regard, it's just like a Bible study. And that Bible study basically just says, like, hey, when these files release, you're going to need some type of answer. And I think the answer that the church has is like, yeah, maybe some of this footage is of demons that proves God's real. Maybe some of this footages of actual aliens from a different planet also proves that God can create that also, you know, and that. That position, to me, always felt like the most natural. I was like, yeah, all these things can be happening at once, and I don't know why we need to box into one little thing. Now. It's also worth mentioning, can you pull up that star thing that people brought up? Kind of. That kicked off this whole thing, that first tweet that that pastor posted, and he was like, look, this is Ezekiel's wheel within a wheel well. A lot of people pointed out, they're like, hey, you can see the parachute in the video. And if you watch it, you can see that there's, like, a parachute that kind of comes into frame. And so as we're moving, you can see it. And what people have pointed out is like, oh, this is a solar flare that's connected to a parachute that's, like, basically, like, dropping out of the sky. And that's why it's kind of moving in this sort of strange position. And the fact that it's being caught on a sensor and the sensor's moving makes it look like it's moving in one direction, when really it's just ascending at a slow rate of speed. And, yeah, I mean, the fact. But to me, I'm like, if people on X or on Twitter can figure this out, the government can obviously figure this out. So then why is the government putting this out, being like, we don't know what this is? Oopsie daisy. What could it be Now, Mark, I've been doing research since the beginning of the episode. Cameras might not be on, but I do have the person that is probably the most right. And I don't know why, but. But I'm going to put that on screen now. Is the person behind me right now? They are. And now I can't tell you why this person is right, but I believe her in everything she says. I mean, she's beautiful. I mean, she is. She's very pretty. That's not my decision making process, but that's a large part of it. Something your speechless, dude, that Annapolina. Luna, have you looked up other photos or is this the only one you pulled up? That's the only one I pulled up, but. But you saw other ones at several times. You dog. Christo, this is a representative of the United States of America that's pushing for disclosure. That's also a good Christian. All right, I think she's right. I'm just saying I feel like you're being a little disrespectful to our, you know, brave men and women that serve this country. She's right. I'm going to pray for you. Look, it's just interesting that the government's putting this out, being like, we don't know what this could be. No one knows. No one will ever know. And it's like, you knew what that one was, but you put this out there intentionally for people to be like, oh, what's going on? And then you have people within the government that are like, oh, it's obviously aliens. I feel like if I had to guess, here's a crazy theory. What if they're putting this stuff out to push people deeper into the Christian camp that are like, the end of times is upon us. Ezekiel's wheel within a wheel is real. And that this is what they saw. And they're like trying to foment this Christian fever in order to usher in a lot of their geopolitical agenda, which is like, hey, if you're a Christian and you're down with this, we need to go invade this foreign country and destroy this holy site because it's what God wants. I just think historically religion has always been used as a way to cull people. The governments can use it. Yeah, right. Governments can absolutely use religion to get people to, you know, go on with things that they would typically never do. But they're like, hey, God wants it. God wants you to conquer the natives. You know? Right, Go ahead, let it rip. Like, you Know, Muslims have dealt with this where you have radical sex. They're like, hey, God wants us to go commit terrorism around the world. That's obviously not what Allah wants, and the average Muslim knows that. But it's like different people and governments can co opt religion to achieve their agenda. Absolutely. So I'm like, I wonder if this UAP disclosure thing is trying to push people and inch them a little bit closer to the sort of Christian worldview so that they're able to be be manipulated out of fear and out of a desire to serve God in the end times to then achieve their agenda of destroying some countries or going in and invading or to be, you know, controlled by the government because it's easier to control them when. If you can just be like, oh, this is what God wants and get their minds off of other files. Yeah, exactly. You distract from some Epstein stuff. You're able to be like, hey, we got to go bomb Al Aqsa in the Middle east in Jerusalem. And it creates a whole thing. You're like, no, this is what God wants and you want to be on the right side of God. Right. We just released the files that prove God's real and the angels are out there, so come on our side. It just feels a little convenient. And I don't really trust any of these people. Except for the one that I pulled up. Yeah, even her, unfortunately. She seems like a nice lady and I'd have to talk to her, but I just, I. I don't. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not fully on board. I just. I don't know. I'm. I'm hesitant and I'm skeptical as I'm going forward in all of this. But. So please drop a comment and I will go through if there's anything I missed. Please let me know if there's anything that I misunderstood or that I said incorrectly in regards to, you know, ancient Christian theology. I'm not a biblical scholar. I'm just comedian with a WI Fi connection. So if I missed it, my bad, I'm sorry. I will correct it in a future episode. Check out History Camp if you're a fan of history and you want to know everything that's ever happened, check out Religion Camp if you like this episode and you like crazy religious deep dives, not only on Christianity, but on every religion under the sun and above it. And if you just like to rock with us here and go through, you know, crazy rabbit holes and deep dives, well, Camp Gagno will be here for you, serving you two episodes a week into the foreseeable future. If you want to join Our Secret Society, patreon.com camp get unlimited camp access to take you through your entire week. We also got merch at Camp R D. You can also see me on the road. Mark Gagnon live. Thank you so much. Please let me know what you think. God bless. Stay sane. Question everything and seek truth. Goodbye.