UFO Insider REVEALS Genetic Proof of Aliens

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Camp Gagnon – "UFO Insider REVEALS Genetic Proof of Aliens"

Host: Mark Gagnon
Guest: Les Velez (UFO researcher, founder of OPUS)
Date: March 24, 2026

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Overview

In this compelling episode, Mark Gagnon sits down with Les Velez, a former Army artillery officer, corporate executive, and leading UFO investigator, to discuss decades of direct experience, field research, and psychological analysis in the world of UFOs and close encounters. Velez shares personal stories, foundational research studies, groundbreaking theories about alien contact and human genetic manipulation, and the challenges faced by those seeking help after anomalous experiences. The episode delves deeply into the psychology, science, and sociology of UFO contact, implants, support groups, and the ongoing cultural shift toward disclosure.

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Key Interview Segments & Insights

Les Velez’s Background and First Encounter

• Les' Early Life & Background
  • Raised in Connecticut, military service in the US Army, and a successful technology executive.
  • Developed interest in UFOs after a vivid sighting at age 11:

    “Off to my right is this object that's silent, oval in shape, kind of self illuminated, no sound out of this thing and it's just kind of slowly meandering over the tree line. It scared the hell out of me.” (00:30/02:20)

• Interest led to involvement with MUFON (Mutual UFO Network) and later founding OPUS (Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support).

The Path to UFO Investigation and OPUS

• Investigation Philosophy
  • Started skeptical and “nuts and bolts” focused. Early field investigations challenged this perspective.
  • First cases consistently featured reports of abductions and onboard experiences.
  • “I was totally skeptical...but then the next case, and then the next case, and then the next case…they were talking about the same thing.” (07:46/08:13)
• Formation of OPUS
  • Following a remarkable case involving psychic phenomena (woman who communicated with treasure ship captains after NDE), Les co-founded OPUS in 1994, a global support and referral network for experiencers.

Patterns in Abductions and Experiencer Reports

• Common Phenomena
  • Most abduction cases involve being taken aboard craft, physical examinations, and then returned—often with missing time.

    “They're brought on board the craft, they're examined, they're brought back.” (08:20)

  • Physical effects include marks, rashes, and in group support, consistency of unusual symptoms (e.g., groin rash from “dipping” in sanitizing fluid).
• Support Group Value
  • Confidential online group with ~1,000 global members:

    “They understand that they’re not alone, that there are other people having these kind of experiences and that it gives them somebody to talk to.” (11:31)

  • Rigorous moderation maintains neutrality and inclusivity.

Psychological and Scientific Studies

• The Omega Study (2007)
  • 71 experiencers vs. 51 controls, analyzed by psychologists:

    “We found that they did not have a psychopathology. They were not crazy. That rules out that issue.” (17:00)

  • 100% “passed” as having normal cognitive and psychological profiles (17:19).
• Lying and Delusion
  • Most experiencers seek help, not attention or fame; rare cases identified and removed from support group (20:28).
• Skepticism & Alternate Explanations
  • False memories, sleep paralysis, psychosis, and fantasy proneness examined; majority of experiencers do not fit these models (81:38).

Physical Evidence & Implants

• Case Study: Rash & Missing Time (24:26–29:17)
  • Couple abducted, missing time, persistent rashes confirmed not to be poison oak, similarity reported by group members.
• Implants (61:02–72:03)
  • Dr. Roger Leir’s removals: implants show anomalous compositions (meteoric iron, non-terrestrial isotope ratios), emit radio waves, and resist cutting—suggesting non-Earth origin.

    “Non-terrestrial isotopic ratios indicating the involved elements do not come from Earth.” (65:52)

  • Evidence viewed by Les at conferences; most implants small, unremarkable in appearance.

Consistent Themes Among Experiencers

• Entities Described (36:39–39:21, 58:21–59:55)
  • Small and tall grays, mantids, Nordics (“look like you and I”), reptilians, interdimensionals, orbs, and light beings are commonly reported.
  • Descriptions of crafts, abduction sequences, and entities share remarkable detail across reports.
• Positive, Transformational Aftereffects
  • Emphasis on love, empathy, environmental stewardship, denuclearization among those who return from encounters (18:05–18:10).
  • “Many people come back with very positive feelings about how we should conduct ourselves, how we should love each other more, how we should be kinder…” (17:25)

Genetics, Consciousness, and Evolution

• Genetic Argument & Evolution
  • Referencing Dr. Gary Nolan:

    “He says in order for us to be where we are now, the planet would have to be 9 billion years old. Unless some, somebody somewhere manipulated what was going on with us, pushed us along.” (130:14)

• Brain Imaging
  • Experiencers show unique neural connections in the caudate and putamen, possibly underlying reported psychic or telepathic abilities (130:30).

The Disclosure Movement & Government Secrecy

• Why No Full Disclosure Yet?
  • National security, compartmentalization, military contractors immune from FOIA, and split between “let it out” and “never release” government factions (97:36, 106:49)
• Recent Shifts
  • Lou Elizondo, Congressional hearings, 2017 NYT article as turning points.

    “That really opened up the floodgates in a big way.” (50:10)

• Global Secrecy
  • Other governments keep secrets for security; consensus is the US knows the most but new pressure is building for transparency (97:36, 104:34).

Skepticism, Debunkers, and the Limits of Proof

• Skeptical Perspectives
  • Host Mark expresses uncertainty:

    “Have they visited Earth, any physical capacity? This is where I'm like, it's difficult and challenging for me to really get on board with because I've never experienced it...” (20:52)

  • Les: Most people have no “ulterior motive” and genuinely seek help (35:52).
• Physical Evidence Limitations
  • Cases of missing implants, malfunctioning cameras, and disappearing artifacts are common (30:02, 34:55–35:56, 100:28).
  • "Government just removes evidence, archives disappear, press coverage vanishes." (114:16)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Consistency of Reports:

  “But the overall thing that they, they're taken, they're brought on board the craft, they're examined, they're brought back. That's it.” – Les (08:20)

• On Abduction Studies & Normalcy of Experiencers:

  “We found that they did not have a psychopathology. They, they were not crazy. ...100% of them were passed as just regular cognition.” – Les (17:00–17:24)

• On the Challenge of Disclosure:

  “But even if you had that piece of paper, 99% of the people wouldn't care… For those who believe, no proof is necessary and for those who don't believe, no proof is enough.” – Les/Mark (124:41/128:44)

• On Implants as Evidence:

  “Non-terrestrial isotopic ratios indicating the involved elements do not come from Earth.” – Les (65:52)

• On Generational Change & Evolution:

  “Our evolution has been sped up in some way, shape or form… we’re having an evolutionary process going on where eventually we will all have that capability and the ones that don’t have it won’t be here anymore.” – Les (130:14–132:54)

• On Positive Aftereffects:

  “A lot of these people come back with very positive feelings about how we should conduct ourselves, how we should love each other more, how we should be kinder, …better stewards of the planet.” – Les (17:25/18:07)

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 00:30–02:20 — Les’s first UFO sighting as a child
• 08:15–11:31 — Early cases: abductions, support group formation
• 13:19–14:19 — Scale of OPUS, website resources
• 15:18–18:10 — Psychological analysis of experiencers
• 24:26–29:17 — Case study: Missing time, shared rashes, group recall
• 61:02–72:03 — Implant evidence and Dr. Roger Leir’s findings
• 130:14–132:54 — Genetic argument, evolution, and psychic ability
• 97:36–99:12 — Government secrecy, global disclosure challenges
• 124:41–128:44 — The futility of proof and the catch-22 of disclosure
• 17:25/18:07 — Positive messaging from experiencers

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Additional Highlights & FAQs

- Are there fakes/hoaxers in the community?
Very rare among those seeking support. Most fear stigma and desire help, not notoriety. (35:52)

- Are poltergeist, demons, and abductions related?
Often coincident but usually experienced/treated separately. Poltergeist activity sometimes occurs in abductee households. (54:44–55:32)

- Are psychic abilities a result of contact?
Some experiencers display heightened psychic or telepathic skills post-contact, sometimes tied to anatomical neurological changes. (130:30, 133:08)

- What kind of physical evidence exists?
Implants with non-terrestrial characteristics, documented rashes, and x-rays. Camera and electronic failures are widespread when contact happens. (29:57, 30:02, 34:02)

- What’s the hardest part for skeptics?
No “smoking gun” — resistance remains until irrefutable disclosure, but government secrecy, ridicule, and apathy stymie progress. (124:41, 128:44, 129:53)

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Conclusion / Why This Episode Matters

This episode provides a balanced, experiential, and scientifically informed look into the hidden world of close encounters, government secrecy, and the rising “disclosure” movement. Les Velez’s decades of fieldwork and direct engagement offer a rare inside look at the realities (and challenges) investigators face in supporting abductees, researching evidence, and confronting the limits of cultural belief and scientific dogma. For both skeptics and believers, it is a thought-provoking exploration of one of the most perplexing phenomena of our time.

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Transcript

[Mark]

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[Les Velez]

In order for us to be where we are now, the planet would have to be 9 billion years old. Unless somebody somewhere manipulated what was going on with us, push us along. That seems to be more logical than anything. Our evolution has been sped up. Off to my right is this object that's silent, oval in shape, kind of self illuminated, no sound out of this thing and it's just kind of slowly meandering over the tree line. It scared the hell out of me. They seem to be able to manipulate time and space. They take you and bring you back before they take you.

[Mark]

Are we alone in the universe? Les Velez.

[Les Velez]

Yes, sir.

[Mark]

Thank you so much for joining me, brother. I really appreciate it.

[Les Velez]

Thank you.

[Mark]

Of all the. The folks that I've had in here to Discuss the phenomena, UFOs, aliens, whatever you want to call it, you have a very interesting background in order to talk on this. So just from my notes here, before ever investigated a single sighting, you were a field artillery officer in the United States Army.

[Les Velez]

Right.

[Mark]

And then after that, you kind of go the corporate route and you climb the ranks to become the vice president at Luscombe Engineering.

[Les Velez]

Right.

[Mark]

So not only do you have a military background, you also have an engineering background. And while all of this is happening, you get an interest and an intrigue in this phenomena that people will call UFOs. Different people in the, in the community will call it different things. UAPs, et cetera. And for three decades you have been an investigator and, and a founder of different organizations that effectively look into what is actually happening and answering the biggest question of all, which is, are we alone in the universe?

[Les Velez]

Correct.

[Mark]

I think your position is pretty clear that we are not.

[Les Velez]

That's true. That's true. And really, you have to take a look at what happened to me personally that got me involved in all of this when I was 11 years old. I was living in Connecticut at the time, and it was late October, it was already getting to Be dark. And I'm coming in the house after feeding my dog, and off to my right is this object. It's silent, it's oval in shape, kind of self illuminated. Like I say, no sound out of this thing, and it's just kind of slowly meandering over the tree line. And it scared the hell out of me. It wasn't a balloon, it was a solid object, something like that. Yeah, exactly. But it was illuminated. It was bright. It was very bright. And so I ran in a house and I tried to get my dad to come out. And by the time I convinced him to come out, he, he looked around and it was gone. Of course he said, oh, it's probably just a beacon of light reflecting off a cloud or something, you know, because back in those days they used a lot of these big search lights, you know, for events of some sort. And anyway, I didn't buy it and I went to the library soon thereafter and started to pick up books on UFOs. And back in those days, this is the late 50s, George Adamsky was the big hero or celebrity, talking about his connection with the Venutians and things of that nature. So anyway, I really got into it for a while and then after a while kind of faded and girls became a little bit more interested. And then I went off to college, went into the ROTC program, and when I graduated I had two years active and four years reserve training that I needed to accomplish. And so I did that. And when I got out of that situation, I went to work for a company by the name of Procter and Gamble and worked with them for a little while. And then eventually I went to work for a company called Magitech that made analog and digital panel meters. And I was with them for 13 years. In 1985, I had the opportunity to buy into a company, a manufacturer's rep company by the name of Luscombe Engineering. And so it took my two girls who hated me when I moved them from Connecticut to California, left all their friends behind. They were 8 and 10 at the time. And so we had a little rough time for a couple of months getting them acclimated out there. And one day I picked up the San Jose Mercury News and there was an article in there about a nuclear physicist by the name of Stanton Freeman that was going to come to San Jose City College to talk about UFOs and a government cover up. Oh, well, I tell you, it's like somebody threw a switch and I said, oh my God, I got to go see this guy. And I Went there expecting to see a handful of people. The auditorium was packed. It was, must have been 300 people there. He gave one of his inimitable presentations. And on the way out, there was a table set up by mufon, the Mutual UFO Network. This is an organization that was started in Seguin, Texas in 1969 to investigate UFOs from a scientific point of view. So I said, okay. They have a monthly journal that they publish. So I figured, I'm going to start getting the journal. They talk about UFO cases in there and everything. So I wanted to dig in a little bit further. Well, after a while, it wasn't enough. I said, oh, I got to do more. Well, I found out that they have a field investigator training course. And the course was, was good. I, I passed it, you know, and, but I was anxious to get out in the field and start talking to people. And so they had a more senior investigator that they, they put me with to go through the, you know, the training process. And the first case that I got involved with was this was this woman that said that she saw this object, but then she said during the conversation with her that she felt that she actually was taken by them and brought on board the craft. And I'm going, at that point, I was more of a nuts and bolts kind of a guy. I wanted to know how these things operated, who was operating them and things of that nature. But when she said that she was taken by them, I was skeptical.

[Mark]

Right. Now, just really quick for context, how old are you at this point?

[Les Velez]

Oh, at that point. This is in early 90s. Okay, early 90s.

[Mark]

And how, how many experiences have you had of your own at that point? It was just the one when you were a boy?

[Les Velez]

Yeah, that, that was it. That was it. But I'll tell you a little bit further on in this story. This is something very interesting.

[Mark]

I see. And when you're talking to this woman on your first field investigation case, are you fully convinced that this phenomena that people are talking about is extraterrestrial, that this is off Earth? Or is it possible it was military tech? It's our own military. Are you going in with a level of skepticism?

[Les Velez]

Oh, I was totally skeptical.

[Mark]

Okay.

[Les Velez]

I, I, I, I. When I heard what she was saying, I, I, I looked at the senior investigator and I said, really? You know, but then the next case, and then the next case, and then the next case that came up, they were talking about the same thing. And so at that point, I'm saying to myself, there's something really going on here. That's significant.

[Mark]

How similar were the details?

[Les Velez]

Very similar. Very.

[Mark]

Any major discrepancy that made you say, like these are not.

[Les Velez]

They all, they all have little differences. They all have differences, sure. But. But the overall thing that they, they are taken, they're brought on board the craft, they're examined, they're brought back. That's it. But in the, in the, in the interim, all the little details that can be all over the place as to what's going on. So I, one of the, one of these experiencers said to me, he says, do you know of other people having experiences like this? And I said, yes, I do. And the next thing I know, I'm facilitating a support group in my office in San Jose. And so that's where I really started to learn more about the phenomena by really hearing all these different cases that these people were talking about. So one day I got a call from the international director of MUFON saying that this reporter in, in the area wanted to speak to somebody about UFOs and, and it wants to write an article about it. And he says, can we give him your contact information? And I so ended up talking to this guy and he wrote a really nice article. It was in the Monterey Coast Weekly paper. And shortly thereafter I got a call from a woman down in Carmel, California, had read the article. And she said, I would really like to understand what's going on with my brain waves when I'm in contact with these entities. And I'm going to my saying to myself, how can I possibly help this woman? But then she said she was working with an emergency room doctor down in Carmel. And that triggered me because I had a doctor friend in Muon that was always interested in meeting other doctors that are interested in the phenomena. So I called him up and I said, hey, why don't we go down there and talk to this gal and you can talk to the doctor and we'll spend some time with them and see what's going on. So we went down there, and I'll never forget walking into her house and there's this picture on the wall of her standing on the back of a rather large boat in beautiful crystal clear blue waters. And I said to her, I said, what is that? What are you doing down there? It looks really interesting. Tell me about it. Yeah, I was helping these treasure hunters. I said, well, you were helping the treasure hunter. How were you doing that? She says, well, I was in communication with the captain of galleon that had gone down and that blew my mind right there. Subsequently, what we found out after a near death experience that she had had, she became very psychic and she started to have communications or able to communicate with various entities. Even as she said, the captain of this galleon that had gone down. Anyway, the rest of the afternoon she started telling us things about me and my doctor friend that there was no way that she could possibly know this. It was just no way.

[Mark]

Could you share what kind of things, like what level of detail?

[Les Velez]

I mean, she was talking about relationships that we have and family members and business and related things. And it was just unbelievable. We came away saying, how the hell can we possibly help people, People that are having these kind of things going on. So we stopped at a hamburger joint, had a hamburger, started talking and said, well, we need to put an organization together. And that's when OPUS was hatched. The Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support, which is in 1994. We officially became a 501c3 nonprofit recognized by the IRS. Which always cracks me up. Paranormal in the IRS. I don't know how that goes together. But anyway, it just became something that we felt was so important. And then we developed a referral network of mental health practitioners and hypnotherapists to help these people. We also set up a confidential online support group where we have almost a thousand people from around the world that are talking 247 with one another. And we found that this support mechanism is incredible for people because they understand that they're not alone, that there are other people having these kind of experiences and that it gives them somebody to talk to. Because in a lot of cases, they can't talk to anybody. They can't talk to family members, they can't talk to clergy, they can't talk to fellow workers about the topic because they feel they're afraid that people are going to think they're crazy.

[Mark]

Yeah. Now, I'm curious, at this point and with your work with opus, how many experiencers. Experiencers do you think you've spoken to?

[Les Velez]

Oh, thousands. Oh, thousands. Yeah. We get. We get two or three, you know, every other day. Contacting us, looking for help. Yeah. And. And we have a form. If you go on our website, opusnetwork.org there's, there's two buttons on there, the contact button and then there's a support button. And we have a form that you fill out to, you know, give us some detail, a little bit of detail about what it is you want. And one of the two things, two things that we can do for people is one, if you want to be put into the support group or do you want one of the triage members to contact you and talk to you? And so, and then we, those people are trained in a way that we can work with these people and find out how best to help them move forward with their experience.

[Mark]

Now, how do you discern what exactly is going on with these different experiencers? Because there are many different types of experiences that can be had. There's near death experience, there's someone that has some type of remote viewing ability or skill, someone that has some type of UFO or anomalous object abduction, or even just observation. And then on top of that, I always say people that I've spoken to that have experienced things, they either fall into one of three categories. That they're lying, that they're suffering some type of mental delusion or psychosis, or they experience something that is truly unexplainable, that is either some type of interface with consciousness or some type of extraterrestrial or off planet being. And that is so tremendous to me and such an interesting prospect that there's a chance that what's happening is truly unexplainable that I must explore it. So how do you discern when you're talking to someone that they're not one of the former two categories and that what they're experiencing is truly unexpected?

[Les Velez]

Well, first of all, I think the phenomena is multifaceted. You have poltergeist activity, you have UFO activity, you have demons, angels, you name it, it's happening, it's happening. And as time has gone by, we've typically have focused on not by desire, but by the people that are actually coming to us, that are basically telling us that they've had contact with non human intelligence. Now, whether those non human intelligence are extraterrestrial, interdimensional time travelers, the military, or all the above is certainly possible, or anything you can think of. It's a total different reality that we don't understand. We may understand bits and pieces of it, but we certainly don't understand the overall reality and the word consciousness. As you mentioned earlier, this is a big, big topic nowadays as far as, you know, what is really happening. You know, and we've done studies. We did back in 2007, MUFON funded this study that I did with a couple of psychologists called the Omega study. And we took 71 people that claimed that they had contact with non human intelligences and 51 people as a control group. And we found that they did not have a psychopathology. They, they were not crazy. Okay, so that. That rules out that. That issue.

[Mark]

Right. And that was discerned through conversation and analysis from a psychologist.

[Les Velez]

Yeah, we had a. Oh, we had a. We had multiple instruments, psychological instruments, that these people had to fil out and go through.

[Mark]

And what percentage of them had no underlying psychological issue?

[Les Velez]

Nobody.

[Mark]

Wow.

[Les Velez]

Nobody.

[Mark]

Okay. So 100 of them were passed as just regular.

[Les Velez]

Yes.

[Mark]

Cognition.

[Les Velez]

Right. And. And even those people that weren't in it that we, that we get on a. On a regular basis, you can, you can understand after a while based on how they communicate, whether or not they need further assistance. Sure. Okay. But certainly people's worldview changes dramatically when they've had an experience like this. And one of the things that triggers me is the fact that a lot of these people come back with very positive feelings about how we should conduct ourselves, how we should love each other more, how we should be kinder, how we should.

[Mark]

Environmentalism is a strong theme.

[Les Velez]

Better stewards of the planet.

[Mark]

Denuclearization is a strong theme.

[Les Velez]

Exactly, exactly. And so, in a way, if there's an agenda that's going on, it's a good agenda. You know, if enough we wake up one day and, you know, we've meet critical mass, that all of a sudden we're not going to have any more wars, you know, we're going to be nice, you know, everybody's going to be good to one another.

[Mark]

We need a few world leaders to get abducted. Yes, exactly.

[Les Velez]

Yes, Yes. I can name a few, but we won't do that now.

[Mark]

So you have this study that discerns if someone is, you know, pathological in some way Right.

[Les Velez]

Now.

[Mark]

How do you assess if they're lying? Because many people will just say, oh, these guys are lying. They're trying to get attention, trying to get rich.

[Les Velez]

Sure.

[Mark]

Now, in full transparency, I've spoken with people that I don't get the sense are lying. And when they share their experience with me, it's truly unbelievable. But I don't think they're lying.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

So I'm curious. How do you assess that? Is there some type of criteria or heuristic, or is it just your own personal.

[Les Velez]

Well, here's the thing. When we refer somebody, we don't get involved with the communication that goes on between the therapist and the person. Right, okay. Because that's. That's not what we do. All right.

[Mark]

There's probably HIPAA laws around that as well.

[Les Velez]

Oh, totally, totally. And, and, and so where, where these people usually end up after something like that is in the support group.

[Mark]

Group.

[Les Velez]

And you can, you can and it's monitored. There's three, three people in our organization that monitor the support group on a daily basis. You can see conversations that are going on and you can tell that if somebody is having an issue or, you know, getting on their high horse and saying, well, this is the only way it is and it's no other way. We, we have a real strict rule about neutrality as far as we, we are concerned. We listen to everybody. But if they get out of hand, if you will, I've only had to kick out probably a handful of people in, in 30 years and for what kind of conduct? Just like I say, just telling other people, well, you're crazy, for instance, you know, and things of that nature.

[Mark]

I mean, that's pretty funny.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

To be in an experience or support group, right?

[Les Velez]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mark]

You're out of line. When I got abducted, here's what I saw. If you didn't see this, you're crazy.

[Les Velez]

Right?

[Mark]

It's kind of funny.

[Les Velez]

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, but like I say, only very few people have stepped over the line and just, just tried to pound down, you know, pound into people's heads, their, their philosophy that there's. It's my way or the highway, you know.

[Mark]

Sure, sure. Yeah. I'm, I, so I, I struggle with this specific issue for a few reasons. One, I don't deal in absolutes where I really try to avoid, like, absolute certainty because I've been proven wrong and made to look very stupid very many times. So. So if you're asking me, do aliens exist? Extraterrestrials, non human intelligence? I'm going to say, almost certainly. Have they visited Earth? Any physical capacity? This is where I'm like, it's difficult and challenging for me to really get on board with because I've never experienced it and I don't know that many people that have experienced it in a very intimate way. I've had friends that have done CE5 and seen some kind of, you know, aberrations in their vision, things like that. But the idea of some type of consciousness thing is much more compelling to me. So I spoke with a friend who was having these experiences with abduction and these beings entering into his room. And then once he set up cameras, it stopped. And that makes me think maybe there's something happening, consciousness, like something happening in his mind, which I don't actually think discredits it because I think that the spiritual and what happens with that kind of connection is still legitimate. But I'm curious, how does that fit with your understanding of what's happening.

[Les Velez]

And. Yeah.

[Mark]

What could you say to someone like me that feels that way?

[Les Velez]

Well, I think it's possible for a person that's schizophrenic to have. Have experiences.

[Mark]

Right. Both things can be true.

[Les Velez]

Yeah. At the same time.

[Mark]

Right.

[Les Velez]

And, and, and so that, that presents a little bit of a. Of an issue, But I. I firmly believe that from the cases that I've seen, marks on the body, implants on the body, that there's just no way that there wasn't some kind of physical action going on. And it's the preponderance of the examples of that. There's a whole lot of it out there. And in my book, the Unknown Other and the Existential Proposition of Alien Contact, which is on Amazon, talks about that. Talks about the physical aspects and the psychological aspects of this. And the physical aspects are significant. And so for me, I've gone way beyond the fact of not believing that this is actually happening physically, but it's also, you know, out of body experiences, you know, lucid dreaming, all this kind of stuff. Where's your playlist taking you? Down the highway to the mountains or

[Mark]

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[Les Velez]

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[Mark]

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[Les Velez]

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[Mark]

Western, book direct and [e-mail]

[Les Velez]

those are true factors that are also happening. So it's not easy to get through all of this. It's complicated. It's complicated.

[Mark]

Is there a specific case, either one that you worked on or one that you can reference that perhaps we could even pull up about some type of physical abduction where you felt like. Like the preponderance of evidence regarding their implants or something like that would be very persuasive.

[Les Velez]

One of the, One of the stories, or actually it was in the support group that it came about. This couple, they're amateur pilots living in Santa Cruz, California, and they're out at Botano State park, which is north of Santa Cruz. Beautiful park, it's hilly. And they're coming out of. Of near the top of the. The park at dusk, and they see this light over the ocean and it get. It's getting bigger and bigger and bigger and until it's right over their head and it's a triangular craft with three lights in the corners and this thing, no sound. And it's about the size of a small Learjet. And it goes into this canyon behind them and it sits there fluttering, you know, doing that butterfly effect. And they see another light over the ocean. And the same thing, this thing is coming in closer, closer, and it's over their head. Same thing, Triangular craft, dark, you know, just with the lights in the corner and one in the center. The first one they felt felt they were looking at it. The second one they felt it was looking at them and they got frightened and they moved under this big old pine tree. And I went up there with them after this to investigate the case. And going out of that area where they were, it's very rocky and hilly and even during the daylight it's dark because high, high vegetation, a lot of trees and everything. They felt felt like they became robotic in nature and they started to float. They felt that they were floating down the hill to their car. And that's the last thing they remember until they're in a restaurant that's typically only five to ten minutes away. Three hours later. They have no recollection of how they got there and what happened during that three hour period. It. Okay. They subsequently came down with a rash. Now, this place has a lot of poison oak and things of that nature. So right away you say, oh, you probably rubbed up against it or something like that.

[Mark]

Sure.

[Les Velez]

So they went to their doctor to, you know, alleviate the, the rash. And the doctor said, no, this is not poison oak. I'm not, I'm not sure what it is. And I think they went to his doctor first and then, so, I don't know, he gave him some kind of ointment, but it's, I guess it still persisted. And so they went to her doctor and he says, I don't know, again, it's not poison oak or anything like that. Maybe it's something, reaction to something. So they took a picture of it and they brought it to the support group meeting and they showed the picture around to the group. And almost without exception, they all had a similar rash at one time or another.

[Mark]

Can you share where it appeared on their body?

[Les Velez]

Yeah, it was in the groin area. In the groin area?

[Mark]

On both of them.

[Les Velez]

Both of them? Yeah. And so, you know, it wasn't some, you know, VD or anything like that. It was. So the reaction, though, was interesting because like I say, almost without exception, they all said they had a very similar rash at one time. And one of the people in the group said, I think I know what it's from. And I said, oh, wow, really? What do you think? He says the reaction to the fluid that they dip you in when they bring you on board your craft to sanitize you. So that blew everybody's mind. And the rest of this story now is even more interesting. I haven't talked to them for almost 30 years. I got a phone call from them a couple of months ago. The woman said, I remember now. I remember. It's coming back to me. What happened that night, that three hours of missing time? I was dipped in something. Yeah.

[Mark]

And so their whole bodies are submerged.

[Les Velez]

Yeah, I guess so. And then it, for whatever reason, it just affected that area. That particular area.

[Mark]

Interesting.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

And everyone within these groups will basically have the same kind of experience.

[Les Velez]

Well, this particular group of. Of experiencers did, like I say, almost without exception. There was a couple of people that didn't. But, you know, almost the majority of the people in the group did have that same rash. And then. And then to have it actually confirmed later on, way later on, almost 30 years later.

[Mark]

Right.

[Les Velez]

Is. Is really phenomenal.

[Mark]

These kinds of stories are so challenging to me because it's, it's. It's like to me, I'm like, yeah. I mean, it kind of makes sense. Like, I. And I don't think that they're lying, but I just go, how is this happening? What is going on? Are they.

[Les Velez]

Are they.

[Mark]

Because again, I've spoken with people that have been removed from their homes, that they're lying in their bed, and then they have these sort of, like, vague kind of memories of not being in their bed and then waking up up on their couch, and then they're trying to understand what happened. And I go, do they have a camera that they could capture this? That you would see their body levitate? Like, certainly there'd be some type of material evidence that we could point to.

[Les Velez]

Sure. A lot of times when people do set up cameras and things like that, they malfunction.

[Mark]

Really?

[Les Velez]

Oh, yeah.

[Mark]

Could you tell me a lot?

[Les Velez]

Well, I mean, it's. It's a well documented situation. MUFON did a study where they did set up a lot of instrumentation, and a lot of times all. All the instrumentation didn't work. They. They have the capability. I mean.

[Mark]

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[Les Velez]

So many times when. When a UFO comes in contact with a car or near a car, it shuts it down. This electromagnetic interference that they can create shuts the whole system down. And then as soon as it leaves, the car, comes back on. There's so many cases like that.

[Mark]

Could you tell me a story about a camera malfunction? Someone that set up a camera to capture themselves and then had an experience.

[Les Velez]

I. I don't have one right off the. The top of my head, but there's been so many people that have tried to do that. Or they put talcum powder on the floor to see if they catch footprints on the floor, you know, and no, nothing. Nothing shows up. Nothing shows up. Yeah, it's. They're. They. They. They have certain. Because a lot of times when they come in, they're not even walking. They're just like kind of floating.

[Mark]

Yeah, I've heard this.

[Les Velez]

Yeah. So it's, it's a incredible phenomena that seems to be extremely real in many cases and then surreal overall that, you know, you just shake your head and say, you know, and as far as people lying, when we get people coming to us, most of the time they're looking for help. They don't, they don't, they don't want to publicize this. They don't want to, you know, become a star or anything like that. You know, make up stories and, and waste people's time. They're looking for help. And, and so the, the, the lying thing is way beyond, you know, my experience with any of these people. It's just not, not these people are looking for assistance.

[Mark]

Right. And the vast majority of them stay pretty private and low profile.

[Les Velez]

Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

[Mark]

These are people with regular jobs as doctors.

[Les Velez]

Even in my book Now I have 25 stories in there of, of, of these experiencers. And most of them don't want to have their names put in there. Only one guy did, and he's got some incredible information in there.

[Mark]

And are there details across stories that when they share the details, you can confirm that what happened to them fits within this sort of parameter of the phenomena. Are there subtle things where they might reference how the being looked or what happened to them that you go, that's a detail that you can't really make up, or that's a detail you can't find from a movie or something? This is something that you can only know if it happened to you.

[Les Velez]

Right. Well, you know, Bud Hopkins did a number of studies himself, and I think it was the 1992. The Roper organization did a poll and they put, put some trick questions in there for people and like, did you ever hear the word zaga or something like that? You know, just something made up. And then people say, oh yeah, I did hear that, you know, and so right away you got somebody that is blowing smoke up your tailpipe, you know, but it's details are so incredibly similar. Like the majority of people are dealing with small grays. That seems to be the most you hear about. And then the tall grays. And then you hear about orbs. Orbs are another big factor these days. And then you have interdimensionals that are talked about and beings of light. You have poltergeist activity. It's very, very common with the UFO side of things as well. So, you know, we talk about paranormal and what is the paranormal? I mean, it can be anything, right.

[Mark]

It's a catch all for many different things. Now, in your worldview and your experience, do you feel that all of these things are happening simultaneously in some capacity? That there are small grays and interdimensionals as well as demons and angels all existing in this one. Well, reality all happening at the same time? Or are they all the same thing?

[Les Velez]

Many, many people talk about the fact that, that during the abduction the small grays are the ones that take them. The, when they get on, on the table, there's a tall gray in the background or a mantid, a mantis type or a Nordic type or a military type, one of our military types. So it's multiple entities and those are, those are the, probably the four or five major ones that people talk about. Okay. And people have drawn, you know, these creatures as best they can. And, and so we, there's just so much, much information that's out there as far as how these things look. And, and it's very similar, very similar. You know, how how a small gray looks or how a tall gray looks or how a mantis looks or, or a reptilian. That's another one I just forgot to mention. But yeah, he's a big character in, in this right now.

[Mark]

Have you found that the prevalence of experiences has gone up?

[Les Velez]

It's going up. Well, let's put it this way. I think what's happening is with the fact that we all have phones.

[Mark]

Sure.

[Les Velez]

As a camera. And now we're having all these congressional hearings about the topic. I think more people feel more comfortable in coming forward and talking about their experiences. I mean, that Roper poll, supposedly back then in 92, I guess it was, they had like 6 million people that were experiencers. And another, another story about one of the support group meetings. Person said to me after the meeting, I've seen you before. Oh, really? At a UFO conference. No, no, no, I saw you on board the craft. Oh really? And I kind of blew it off. I, I didn't, didn't. I had no conscious recollection of that, so I didn't think anything about it. It was a year, year and a half later that a totally different person said the same thing to me, said, I've seen you before. I said, really? You forgot? No, no. You were sitting on this bench naked on board the craft and you were freaking out. And they told me to go over to you to calm you down. Well, at that point I decided, okay, I'm going to go get Regressed I had three regressions.

[Mark]

Now, this is a past life regression or a memory regression.

[Les Velez]

Yeah, well, memory regression. Yeah, Memory regression, which turned out to be past life regression.

[Mark]

Okay.

[Les Velez]

Because that's what I came up with. I came up with past lives.

[Mark]

I see. Now, if people aren't familiar with this, this is basically a type of hypnosis. You could say.

[Les Velez]

Yes.

[Mark]

Where a therapist will coach you through, basically getting you into this very meditative, hypnotic type state where you're able to, in theory, access memories that perhaps have been repressed through trauma, and then also access memories from past lives that you have maybe experienced. Is that more or less what it is?

[Les Velez]

Yes.

[Mark]

I've had some friends do this, and their experiences are pretty strange.

[Les Velez]

Yeah. So like I say, I. I had multiple past lives, but I didn't come up with anything that related to being on. On board a craft or anything like that. And then I. I was talking to somebody subsequently, and he says maybe this person somehow tapped into a recollection of a past life where you did have an abduction. And this is one thing they talk about, that these. They seem to be able to manipulate time and space. Space. They can take you and bring you back before they take you, if you will. They have this incredible capability of manipulating time and space. And so things like that could happen. And my latest theory on all of this is that we all have had an experience, whether we consciously remember it or not.

[Mark]

Even myself.

[Les Velez]

Yes. Yes.

[Mark]

Now, can you share any other experience that you've had? Had. You kind of alluded to it a little bit where when you were 10 in Connecticut, you have this experience.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

And then almost 20, 30 years go by. Well, you're living a very normal reality.

[Les Velez]

Yeah, I. I was down in Halo Bend, Arizona, with some people. And when was this rough? This was like 10 years ago, something like that. And near Luke Air Force Base down there.

[Mark]

There.

[Les Velez]

And they were doing some night exercises. Okay. And when they had these big flares going off and jets were going over and dropping these things. But then there's like this dry creek bed. And all of a sudden this blue orb silently just starts to move along the creek bed. That was one factor that night. And then, then this object shows up like a. Like a bow tie. The outside is yellow and the inside is red. And then it would switch. It would go just the opposite. The outside would be red and the inside would be yellow. I tried to get my video camera to work. It didn't work.

[Mark]

How close is this light to you?

[Les Velez]

This one? Oh, this is probably within quarter mile

[Mark]

and how big would you say it is?

[Les Velez]

Oh, it was. It was probably like this camp sign there. Okay. Yeah.

[Mark]

Other people are seeing it as well.

[Les Velez]

Oh yeah. Two other people were with me. And none of our cameras worked. We could. We couldn't take pictures of it. And that night we all felt something happened. But we couldn't. We. We couldn't. Zootopia 2 has come home to Disney Plus. Let's go get ready for a new

[Mark]

case where Victoria's partner, new friends, Gary the snake and your last name, the snake Dream team. New habitats. Zootopia has a secret reptile population. You can watch the record breaking phenomenon at home.

[Les Velez]

Zootopia 2 now available on Disney Plus. Rated PG. And right now you can get Disney plus and Hulu for just $4.99 a month for three months with a special limited time offer.

[Mark]

Ends March 24th.

[Les Velez]

After three months, Plan Auto renews at $12.99 a month. Terms apply. So good, so good, so good.

[Mark]

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[Les Velez]

We couldn't even talk about it, I guess, which is a common thing. When people do have experiences, they don't generally talk about it. And we didn't talk about it until years later, until years later that we said, you remember what happened that night?

[Mark]

This is that. But that. That detail is so strange to me because you are working in this community. You are facilitating events for people that have experienced things and then you yourself experience things with other people that experience things and then you don't talk about. About it for a year, two years.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

Is that strange to you?

[Les Velez]

It is strange. It is strange. Yeah, it is strange. It's a very common. It's a very common thing that. That happens to people. Now, whether or not we all felt the same exact way, you know, because I know one of. One of the people in the group was. Seemed to be really much more affected by it than myself or the other person. But it's just.

[Mark]

What do you make of that? Like, do you have any working theory as to why someone like you that is outspoken, communal, willing to facilitate discussions like this, has an experience and doesn't talk about it.

[Les Velez]

Right. Yeah, it is interesting. It is interesting. I don't know. The place where we were is a mesa. Okay. And there's petroglyphs all over the place, and a lot of it looks like ufo.

[Mark]

Strange. Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah, it's. These experiences are the most fascinating thing to me because, like I said, I. I personally have never experienced anything like this. I mean, to this day, I say sometimes, like, there's only two things I've ever experienced that are unexplainable or perhaps, you know, paranormal. And they've happened on this show. I was speaking with a guy and he was talking about trying to get possessed. And then while we're talking, lights started to flicker.

[Les Velez]

Huh.

[Mark]

And I was like, what is. What is that about? And there's. There's an episode I did with Ethan Kaiser, if anyone wants to go check it out. It's on YouTube now. And then another one where I'm speaking with a demonologist. And while we're talking, a light flashes behind him that I didn't even notice happened until we actually saw the video. And even after we posted it, it was not until people commented, like, what is this light? And I sent it to him and I said, have you. Is there a light that could have cast this? Like a lamp or something or a car driving by? He goes, there's no road. It was the middle of the daytime. I don't know what that light is. So those are the only things.

[Les Velez]

Things.

[Mark]

So the idea of experiencing grays coming into your room, things like that, I don't discredit them. And I don't want experiencers that are listening to this to feel like I don't believe them, because I do believe them. I don't think they're lying. But it's just difficult for me to wrap my mind around.

[Les Velez]

Sure.

[Mark]

What is actually happening. Which is why sometimes I think military documents make more sense to me. I look at Wilson Davis Memo, and I go, yeah, okay, this is interesting. I look at the gimbal, you know, you know, USS Nimitz. Go fast. I can say, all right, there's something here that's difficult to explain. But the experiencer stuff is simultaneously the most interesting but also the most challenging. So I guess I'm curious, are there other specific stories perhaps in the book that you feel like would be helpful for someone like me to read?

[Les Velez]

Oh, yeah. Well, I encourage you to read the book.

[Mark]

Yeah, of course.

[Les Velez]

Because I think you could see from a perspective of these other experiences in there, these 25 that are in there, what they've gone through, how they processed it. And this book basically came about during COVID I had a great, you know, plenty of time to sit there and think about it, and I really felt that I needed to put it out there. It's kind of a. Kind of a guide for experiencers as far as, here's what's happening, here's the psychological effects, the physical effects. And I talk about the graves in there and all the guys that have been involved with the Nimitz thing and the articles that have come out from the government trying to get the ball rolling as far as disclosure is concerned. And there's something going on and it's significant. And I think it's a reality that has always been with us ever since we've been an entity on this planet. And we just are now starting to get more involved with it because we have capabilities now to, you know, video these things and see these things. And it's just a time now, I think is incredible. I can't believe it, to tell you the truth, that we've been, you know, last year and now this year or two years ago or what was it? When, when did that Times article come out?

[Mark]

It was 2017.

[Les Velez]

17, yeah, right. 2017. Leslie Keane, Leslie. And I know Leslie, and I'm glad that she was able to do that. And that really opened up the floodgates in a big way.

[Mark]

I mean, from that to Dave Grush to David Fravor, I mean, all these people coming forward even before Congress and in private skiffs talking about their experiences. For someone like you, having been in this industry for 30 plus years, it must be shocking to see everything that's happened in the last five years.

[Les Velez]

Well, and I've always believed that there was something going on, on. And from my own experience, you know, seeing this object and, and I think that, you know, there's been so many documented cases, so many books written about it, you know, all the Bud Hopkins books, you know, and, and, you know, Whitley Streber's books and. Sure. John Mack's book. You know, there, there's a lot, a lot of data that has been, been put on paper and now hopefully we can get this scientific community to maybe actually take a little bit more serious look at it. It's been such a stigma attached to it, unfortunately, and that's why a lot of people have stayed away from it because they. John Mack almost lost his job, his tenure over there, over the whole thing.

[Mark]

Right.

[Les Velez]

And luckily Danny Sheehan saved his ass and. Yeah, yeah, and then he gets run over in Eng. I walked off the street in the wrong way. Yeah. Or supposedly.

[Mark]

Could you help me build a framework for how to understand this kind of stuff? So I'm curious, did you grow up religious?

[Les Velez]

I was raised a Roman Catholic. I went to church because my mother made me. Sure. But I subsequently kind of fell away from the church because I didn't believe the dogma. I couldn't believe that a baby would have original sin on its soul. Therefore, it has to be baptized. Baptized, sure. So it's just a way that the Catholic church can keep the flock growing.

[Mark]

Sure.

[Les Velez]

You know, so I kind of moved away from it. But I do believe that there is some super intelligence that's involved in some way, shape or form, whether you call it God or Buddha or Muhammad or what.

[Mark]

Sure.

[Les Velez]

There seems to be some rhyme or reason or. What's a better word for it?

[Mark]

Organization of the universe.

[Les Velez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark]

There has to be some type of catalyst, unmoved mover that put things into motion.

[Les Velez]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Mark]

There's some type of necessary first mover, and everything else is contingent from that. Right, yeah, that makes sense. So I'm curious, do angels and demons exist within your framework?

[Les Velez]

Yeah, I. I definitely believe that. That's. That's true. I mean, there's been cases where this one lady contacted us and matter of fact, I interviewed her. It's on one of my interviews on YouTube. She talks about the fact that there was a ghost in her house that they were able to send on its way. But there was also a demon that would attack her, leave scratches on her body, you know, violent. What they found out was that. That her house was on a leyline. And these. Supposedly the. The person that was trying to help her said that they were coming out of this leyline, These demons were coming out. Well, come to find out later, after she sold the house, because they thought that they got rid of it, the person that bought it had the same problem, eventually had to sell the house, and then two houses down, they had the same problem. Problem. And they were also on that ley line.

[Mark]

Now, when you say a ley line,

[Les Velez]

you mean this is an energy line that they talk about. I'm not super familiar with the definition of it, but they talk about the pyramids being on a ley line and various other medieval and ancient structures being on ley lines. Churches and Stonehenge, for instance, is on a leyline. And yeah, so I. I believe that we. We can have the same thing. And. And with. Oh, here we go.

[Mark]

So it says here they are Theoretical, invisible lines thought to connect significant landmarks across the world are sometimes believed to hold sacred powers. Yeah, I see.

[Les Velez]

Or could be negative power. Sure.

[Mark]

Okay.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

And so do you think that and abduction phenomena exist separately from this sort of spiritual phenomena, Angels, demons, etc, or do you think it's possible that people could be conflating the two things?

[Les Velez]

Well, I think typically it's separate. Typically it's separate. Matter of fact, we just got one from a woman that's. That's having some real issues with nasty. She's calling it a demon, and there's no not talking about the Grays at all. So typically it's one or the other. But you do have poltergeist activity, and that's also associated with these abductions.

[Mark]

When you say associated, what do you mean by that?

[Les Velez]

Well, I mean, people might have been abducted by Gray, but then they also have. Have a ghost that's in their house for whatever reason. And it may be a friendly ghost. My brother by the name. His. Mark. His name is Mark, lives in Connecticut and he re. Rebuilt a 1700s house. And he did a beautiful job. It got written up in architect magazine and everything. And one day his wife was coming home with a couple of bags of groceries. And they have like a. A keeping room on the side and where they have a chair and a TV and stuff like that. And so she was outside and she yelled at Mark and said, mark, open the door. Didn't move. Mark, open the door. Didn't move. She got mad. She put the bags down, open the door. Walked in to give him hell. He's sitting in a big wing back chair. Except it's not Mark. It's his ghost. Ghost sitting right there. They have two ghosts. They had a male ghost and a female ghost. And every time the female ghost showed up, they would smell jasmine. They eventually sold the house to a lady from New York, and she was at a party with some of the. Some of the people that. That my brother and his wife knew. And they. They got a call from this. This woman that was at the party with this woman from New York. And this woman said, are there. Are there ghosts in that house? Do you know anything about that? Because they never disclosed it. But yeah, I mean, it's, It's. It's. It happens.

[Mark]

When you say that she saw a ghost. This is your sister.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

Yeah, she saw a ghost. What did she see? Do. Did she describe him?

[Les Velez]

A man. A man sitting there, you know, like 1700s kind of garb.

[Mark]

And it looked like how I'm looking at you.

[Les Velez]

Now. Yeah, well, it's probably, probably a little bit more ethereal, but.

[Mark]

Right. Yeah, but like, would it be like what you would see in a film or a TV show, how people would describe poltergeist or ghosts in that way where there's almost kind of like some sort of.

[Les Velez]

I mean, he materialized enough that she

[Mark]

saw it and then that way like

[Les Velez]

just sort of evaporated, just vanished after she started to give him hell.

[Mark]

Interesting. Yeah. I mean if you're a ghost, you don't want to get yelled at by a different wife. You know what I mean? You're getting yelled at him from beyond the grave. You don't want to deal with all that. H, this is interesting. So I'm curious, like there's so many different subcategories of these beings that people will talk about. Specifically within ufology.

[Les Velez]

Right.

[Mark]

Where you have small grays, large grays is the one that always strikes me as most interesting is Nordics.

[Les Velez]

They look like you and I, I

[Mark]

find this to be fascinating. I mean, well, a little bit more handsome than us, I think probably. They're typically described as, you know, blonde hair, blue eyed and tall and they have strange kind of futuristic uniforms and things like that. Where does that come from? In literature? Have you spoken with people that have seen Nordics and what do you make of that?

[Les Velez]

It's just another race that interacting with us. They're supposedly like, you know, over a hundred different races that have been visiting us over the eons, I guess, and it's just another, another group.

[Mark]

And in your framework, do they exist in a different place?

[Les Velez]

Well, yeah, they, they come from a different place. I think I even detail that in there. Where off the top of my head. Now we talk about the Reptilians come from Draco and, and then you have the Nordics and I think it' I forget where they come from right off the top of my head. But the, the grays from Zeta Reticuli and places like that.

[Mark]

And this comes from accounts of talking to experiencers and what they said.

[Les Velez]

They've had conversations with these entities and it's come across like that. Yeah.

[Mark]

And so they're all in kind of different places and they're all interfacing with Earth in some way and they're physically entering into our atmosphere with craft. That is how you're, that's how you understand it.

[Les Velez]

Some of them, yes, some of them are coming in physically in craft. The interdimensionals seem to be. Don't have to worry about craft. I guess they just, they just show up in, in their, their, their form.

[Mark]

What do interdimensionals look like? Typically,

[Les Velez]

they're, it's all over the place. As far as what, what they are. They can be. They can be like, like light being things, you know, not super defined, but you know that there's, there's something there and they're able to communicate and transfer information if they want to talk to you and things of that nature. But no, the book also has pictures in there that you can take a look at.

[Mark]

What kind of photos are we talking about, Les? What do you mean photos?

[Les Velez]

Well, they're drawings, actually. They're drawings. Yeah.

[Mark]

What do we have here?

[Les Velez]

Oh, that's, that's. That's an implant. That's an implant that Roger Lear took out. Let me, let me talk. Talk about implants for a second, please. Yeah, I wanna.

[Mark]

That might be a compelling piece of evidence that might help fl this world.

[Les Velez]

The late Dr. Roger Lear got involved in getting implants out of people and he came up with some really interesting information.

[Mark]

What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because I just got a cheat code that I want to tell you guys, all right? I am at an age in my life where unfortunately, a normal night out has consequences. Not like, not even crazy drinking, like just a couple of drinks in the next day. I'm wrecked. My sleep score is bad. My head feels bad. On my whoop. It tells me, hey, you slept like crap. And that's why I use Cheers Restore. This is basically a dual action after alcohol aid that supports both my brain and my liver. And it's created after research on a compound called dhm designed for how alcohol actually affects your body. Before, I would just drink a bunch of water and hope, but now Cheers was store actually gives you the actual chemicals to make you feel better. It's been on Shark Tank, it's sold over 30,000 stores, and it's backed by doctors and clinicians. And the promise is pretty simple. You're going to feel 50% better the next day or your money back. All you need to do is take three capsules after your last drink or before bed. And this isn't for going crazy, all right? But if you're just like a normal adult having a few drinks, it really helps. So the viewers of this channel, great news for you. You're going to get 20% off when you use the code CAMP. That's C A M. P@cheers to health.com go to cheershealth.com use the code CAMP, get 20% off. You're gonna go out, have just as much fun and feel way better the next morning to get after it and tell them the good folks over at Camp Gagnon sent you. What's up, people? We're gonna take a break really quick because I want to tell you about a sponsor we have that I'm so stoked about. Yes, it's Chubby's. If you've never heard of Chubby's, I've been wearing these since legit, like late high school. Yeah, I'm so stoked. I started this podcast because I wanted to deep dive on crazy stuff in history and just, you know, random wormholes that I got into on the Internet. And now I'm working with a brand that I've literally worn for 10 years. Because Chubby's one of those brands that you put on and you go, oh, this is comfortable. They're like the OG Like, I'm going to the beach, I'm chilling on the boat, I'm walking through soho in the summertime shorts. I mean, they are the best. Their stuff is super breathable. I mean, the stretch is like OG they're like one of the first ones to start that. And I mean, you can actually move, you can sit. Like, you can exist without just being absolutely swamped. And they don't just do shorts. They got everything. I mean, they got polos, they got sweaters, they got anything you can imagine. And it's all that, that wrinkle resistant, quick drying, antimicrobial greatness that basically makes all their stuff, you know, the most. Basically the mix between, like, I'm the most comfortable I've ever been. I could go to sleep right now. But also, I'm a functioning adult. That looks amazing while I'm at work. And great news. This is the 15 year anniversary and they're bringing back the originals. These are literally the shorts that started the entire thing. Same iconic fit, the same inseam options, and that same energy, like, yo, I'm just gonna pull up and, you know, crack a brew on a Friday. That type of vibe. So whether you are weekending, weekday ing, going to the beach, barbecue, or just living your life, Chubby's has you covered. So for a limited time, Chubby's is giving the listeners of this program 20% off with the code camp. If you go to chubby shorts.com that is 20% off your order with the code camp. C A M P at Chubby Chubby shorts dot com. I mean, if you guys trust anything I ever say, Chubby's is fantastic. The shorts are truly amazing. And you're getting 20 off. What are you waiting for? Go check them out. Now. Let's get back to the show.

[Les Velez]

First of all, there's no inflammatory rejection reaction by the body to these foreign objects because you get a splinter in your finger, you know it's there and it hurts, it gets swollen, it gets red. No visible portal of edge century collections of specialized nerve endings surrounding the object. An outer coating of ceramic biological material. A metallic phase where inorganic metal becomes biological tissue. The emission of radio waves which are deep space Frequencies of the FM band. Electromagnetic fields in excess of 10 milligauss. Composition of meteoric iron 66. Rare earth metals such as U236. A single isotope of uranium existing by itself, as well as elements such as uridium, which is very rare and hard to find in the Earth's crust. And this one is interesting. Non terrestrial isotopic ratios indicating the involved elements do not come from Earth.

[Mark]

Now what is this study coming from?

[Les Velez]

This is coming from Dr. Roger Leir that did a very rigorous analysis. Fisk, he had this all done at prestigious labs where they, they analyzed this information and he wrote a book called the Alien Scalpel.

[Mark]

Could you google this real quick?

[Les Velez]

And Alien in the Scalpel and Roger Lear L E I R Metallic caverns that are no larger than the diameter of one atom. Resistance to ordinary cutting techniques such as metallic sawing or severing with a cutting instrument. One of the specimens had to be cut with a laser. I mean it's just, it's just incredible that these things and some of these things when they go to get them out, move, they actually move. That happened to Whitley Street Streber. He has an implant behind his ear and they were going to take it out and the thing started to move and then he said, okay, let's not do it. And he was told that he shouldn't take it out. And he communicates with these entities through that implant and it, it's actually helped him write books.

[Mark]

Wow. Now something like this. Why is this not front page news? Why is this not not being. I mean, if there are credible scientific, peer reviewed studies on these types of implants, why is that not something that's being discussed?

[Les Velez]

All I got, all I can think of is that we have this conscious dissonance that's going on where, you know, most people don't care. They get up in the morning, they have breakfast, they go to work, they come home at night and they have a beer, they have dinner, they watch a little tv. They go to bed, they get up in the morning, do the same routine. Now they have to do, do that. They got to take care of the family, which is a responsible thing to do. Not in their way of thinking, just not. I mean even when you tell them something like that, a lot of them probably just figure, well, I don't care or I don't believe it, you know,

[Mark]

but like someone that is a, you know, even, you know, someone within a credible research institution or a hobbyist biologist or something, I imagine would be fascinated by this type of a discovery recovery. Like where are these implants now? Do you, are you, are they in like private collections? Are they held within institutions? Like what is the status?

[Les Velez]

Yeah, I, I, and Lear's case, I, I'm not sure exactly where those are. It may be a part of his book. Right.

[Mark]

Chris, did you find anything on that?

[Les Velez]

Dr. Roger Learn clean. Yeah.

[Mark]

Okay, so let's, here click on one of those Christos. You can just scroll to the bottom and click on the left one if you want.

[Les Velez]

Cuz he talks about where these things were analyzed.

[Mark]

So it says here the Alien and the Scalpel by Roger Lear is a non fiction book in which Lier, a podiatric surgeon, claimed documents, has claimed surgical removal and analysis of small foreign objects that he calls implants from patients who report alien abduction experiences. He describes medical procedures, imaging results, laboratory findings, and arguing that some implants exhibited unusual characteristics such as anomalous placement or purported material properties that he believed could not be easily explained by conventional medical or environmental causes. Okay, now it goes on to say the book also places these cases within a broader narrative about UFO abduction, government secrecy and possibility of non human intelligence monitoring humans. While acknowledging skepticism from mainstream science critics. Critics note that alternative explanations such as mundane foreign bodies, scarring or confirmation bias were not always ruled out to scientific standards, making the work influential in ufology, but controversial in academic and medical circles. I see. Okay. So I guess the critics would say, ah, there's other ways to explain this.

[Les Velez]

Well, I mean you have debunkers that are, that's their job. Sure, sure. And there are two factions within the government right now that someone all this to come out and others don't. And a lot of these people in the government feel it's demonic.

[Mark]

Sure.

[Les Velez]

And they don't want us to mess with it. Stay away from it.

[Mark]

On the implant combo. Have you ever seen an implant?

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

You have?

[Les Velez]

Oh yeah.

[Mark]

In someone or out?

[Les Velez]

No, no, not in someone after it's been taken out. Daryl Sims, who lives down in Texas, he, I Ran into him years and years ago, and he brought a number of those implants, implants that he got involved with a surgeon friend of his where they, they took him out.

[Mark]

And what do they look like to you, basically?

[Les Velez]

I mean, in that book, you see, there's. I think I have more pictures of the implants in there. Nothing remarkable, you know, like a little like, like the size of your thumb, thumbnail or less. Yeah.

[Mark]

And what do you think the implants are for? I mean, the obvious thing would be

[Les Velez]

monitoring or tracking, but certainly monitoring, tracking. But also I've been told that they're monitoring our health in some way, shape or form. Yeah, there you go. There you go. There's some of them right there.

[Mark]

Interesting.

[Les Velez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark]

The implant thing is quite interesting.

[Les Velez]

And this is, this is. And then people are talking about the fact that not only they have those implants, but then they have also other marks on their body, triangular dots on their skin or scoop marks on their legs. And then with a lot of these people have conscious remember, remembering, consciously remembered these things happening to them. So that, that puts a little bit more validity into, into the whole thing.

[Mark]

Now, I'm curious of the people that you've spoken to that have experienced these types of, these abductions and things like that. How many of them were interested or discussing ufology prior to the abduction production, and how many of them had no interest in the topic?

[Les Velez]

Good question. Oh, that happens so many times where you've. I, I get it quite often where people say, I didn't think about UFOs or nothing until this happened. Driving down the road, I see this craft or something. Next thing I know, I'm 50 miles down the road. I don't know how I got there, you know, and they say, what happened to me? I gotta find out. I gotta find out what happened. Then they, you know, come to us and maybe want to get regressed, try to see if they can remember, because they can't remember. It happens often where they, they have no inkling, you know, thought process going on with UFOs at all. And then something dramatic happens and guess what?

[Mark]

Yeah, that's interesting because that's another challenging thing for me that the vast majority of people that I've spoken to on the topic will have some type of bizarre, anomalous experience as a child or has a very legitimate interest in the topic that then predicates the experience. So they'll say, you know, I lived in a haunted house. I had poltergeist activity. I experienced a craft similar to your story. I was Abducted as a child and then had many years, years of no contact, or there was repeated contact throughout my teens. And then I got involved in the community. And then there's a couple times where people say, I've just always thought it was interesting. I started reading books and I started watching documentaries, and then I had this experience. And again, I don't think that the timeline here, predicating the experience necessarily negates or invalidates the experience by any capacity. It's possible that the openness creates some type of connection with the being that then you can have.

[Les Velez]

Yeah, let me talk to that for a second, because that's. That's a good point. You bring up this study that we did in 2007, the Omega 3 study. Let me just read some of the conclusions that we came to. And you talked about childhood things that happened. In general, abductees and experiences profile differently than do their comparison counterparts on a number of general psychological and specific neurological variables. Yet there are remarkable similarities between the experiential group and the comparison group. It should be noted that in no case did experiences or comparison group participants show any signs of mental illness or personality disorder. Fantasy proneness does not appear to play a differentiating role between the experiential and the control groups. However, sensitivity to alternative realities and early and recurrent paranormal or psi experiences seem to play a role in the abduction experiences. Fantasy proneness is often talked about with these debunkers that say, oh, yeah, they're just making this stuff up, okay? And we. We did not find that to be the case. Childhood conflict, psychosocial tension and abuse and trauma more than likely facilitated dissociative coping style in later life. How much a part dissociation plays in the abduction experience remains an open question.

[Mark]

So what does that mean?

[Les Velez]

So dissociative coping style. It. It's not. It does dissociate. Dissociative st does not mean it's a psychopathology or anything. It's just that this is way that they're dealing with the trauma that they've had. Okay. And it seems to be a factor in opening them up to maybe future experiences. Both experience with an interest in the abduction phenomena have impact on how one's body is perceived to function, how one views the world and one's purpose in it, and how one defines or redefines one's faith, tradition, and belief. Beliefs, in essence, both experience with and interest in contact seem to change one's sense of self and one's worldview. And that's where we talked about the fact that you know you need to be better to one another, be more loving, be, you know, more concerned with the environment, things of that nature abductees experience, or believe that there is a sentient purposive alien intelligence at play in their lives and at work in the world. What the intelligent skull are seem to be more beneficent than benevolent, more benign than malignant. This, though, remains an open question.

[Mark]

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[Les Velez]

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[Mark]

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[Les Velez]

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[Mark]

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[Les Velez]

Yes please.

[Mark]

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[Les Velez]

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[Mark]

The world moves fast. Your workday even faster. Pitching products, drafting reports, analyzing data. Microsoft 365 Copilot is your AI assistant for work built into Word, Excel, PowerPoint and other Microsoft 365 apps you use, helping you quickly write, analyze, create and summarize so you can cut through clutter and clear a path to your best work. Learn [e-mail] M365 copilot could I see that?

[Les Velez]

Yeah, sure. This is it.

[Mark]

So how many people were involved in

[Les Velez]

this study, by the way? Well, this was a study with 17 abductees and and 51 people that were a control group that didn't have any experience. You can see the full report this whole study, this is on our website opusnetwork.org if you go into our articles and document section, you just scroll through it and you'll see the Omega 3 study and you can see the whole thing.

[Mark]

I see. Okay, now that's just an interesting point. The disassociative childhood conflict, psychosocial tension, abuse and trauma more likely facilitate a disassociative coping style later in life. How much a part the disassociation plays in the abduction experience remains an open question, but the Ring and Rosing abuse trauma association pathway remains a viable descriptive.

[Les Velez]

Yeah, that's a previous study. Ring and Rosing. That was in the previous study that was done.

[Mark]

Interesting. So is this to suggest that many people that have experiences did experience some type of childhood trauma?

[Les Velez]

Yeah. Interesting. It's very very similar with with these people. It seems to be a common thread that goes goes through them. Not all of them, but sure, a lot of them do.

[Mark]

Interesting. What do you make of that? Well, that perhaps the way the brain coped with that trauma and created that disassociation perhaps opens you up to.

[Les Velez]

You should be a psychologist. You said that very well.

[Mark]

That's interesting. Now, on this topic, I'm curious if you've heard this theory. I'm sure you have. I'd be shocked if you haven't heard it. And again, it's not to dismiss the experiences that people have had. But I've heard a theory posited by one of my friends who was himself an experiencer. He said that he heard a theory that it's possible that children that suffer specifically can. He believes, or at least this was a theory that he had heard that children experience. It's possible that they. They re. Remember experiences that happened to them in a way that disconnects them or perhaps disassociates them from the experience and masks or charades itself as something different such that they can interface with it in a safe way. They'll say, when I was seven years old, a being came into my room in the middle of the night. I was probed. I felt unsafe. I was removed. I have this fuzzy memory. And then I was put back in my bed and I felt gross and scared and sad and I had no one to. To help me.

[Les Velez]

Right.

[Mark]

And again, that is a very blanket sort of selective, you know, description of an experience. But some people have suggested, oh, that's actually perhaps childhood sexual abuse that happened at the hands of an uncle.

[Les Velez]

Right.

[Mark]

And someone came into your room and they sexually abused you, and your brain re. Remembered it in a way that it was safe to interface with.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

What do you think of that theory?

[Les Velez]

Well, I think it's totally possible. Totally possible. And, and that, that's. That. That's the conundrum, I guess, if you will, that, you know, when you're working with someone, you try to get to the. To the truth in some way, shape or form. And of course, again, we don't do that. We leave that up to the therapist. Sure. To. To. To look at that and analyze it. But yeah, it's. It's totally possible. It makes sense in a way. Absolutely right. But I think not. Not all these experiences are because of sexual abuse.

[Mark]

Sure. Of course, childhood sexual abuse doesn't explain the Go Fast video or the Wilson Davis memo or an implant, perhaps behind your ears, something like that. But I do think it is a relevant piece if we're trying to understand the psychology of what's actually happening to experiencers, to consider these types of things as well, oh, sure. I'm curious if there's other types of theories in that vein that you've heard.

[Les Velez]

Well, I mentioned the fact that we didn't find that fantasy proneness was, was an issue. And, and the. There's other things that these debunkers talk about is sleep paralysis.

[Mark]

Right.

[Les Velez]

That this is what's really happening. It's sleep paralysis. It has nothing to do with. Well, two thirds of all cases, whether in the bedroom or not, did not involve sleep paralysis. Okay. So yeah, maybe some of the cases do entail sleep paralysis.

[Mark]

How can they discern that? Is that from a cell phone report?

[Les Velez]

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And then the false memory syndrome is another one that people talk about, and the American Psychological association or any other mainstream psychological diagnostic system is either ratified

[Mark]

or proven such a diagnosis that false memory.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

Even exists. Yeah, I see.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

Now, how would someone self report that they weren't undergoing sleep paralysis paralysis? Is it possible that they could have experienced sleep paralysis, but in that, I mean, in that dreamlike state, they didn't know?

[Les Velez]

Well, yeah, they, they certainly know that they're, they're having sleep paralysis or they're paralyzed. Okay. They. The only thing they can move their eyeballs, I guess.

[Mark]

I see. So these people didn't report being paralyzed at all. I see.

[Les Velez]

Yep.

[Mark]

Okay, that makes sense.

[Les Velez]

Yeah. So what are the threads?

[Mark]

Can you draw through some of the people, people you've spoken to? I. I imagine that telepathy is probably a very common thread.

[Les Velez]

We, we found, you know, psychic abilities after the experience. Yeah. Like in the case of that one woman that we started the whole ball rolling with us setting up our organization.

[Mark]

Was she successful, by the way? This is to harken back. If anyone's misremembering, this is the woman that was helping treasure hunters. Yes. By talking to the captains of these, you know, century year old galleons.

[Les Velez]

That sunk. Right.

[Mark]

Was she successful in that pursuit?

[Les Velez]

Evidently she lived very well.

[Mark]

Did you ask her how many treasures

[Les Velez]

she was able to, you know, after she said that? And we went right into this whole thing about who she was in contact with and what, what they were talking about and all of that kind of, kind of got off to the side, but I never really found out more about it. But she lived in Carmel, which is.

[Mark]

Carmel by the sea is a nice place.

[Les Velez]

Yes, it is.

[Mark]

Yeah. I've been there. Yeah. That's interesting. So I guess, like, the other thing that I find challenging is the repeatability of these things. So to me it's not difficult to accept that is it possible someone could have precognitive dreams. And for anyone that doesn't know, this is someone that might have a dream that they get in a car accident or that someone they know gets in a. A car accident, and then they know what day is going to happen. And then they tell their loved one, hey, drive safe. And while they're driving, a car accident happens right in front of them. And perhaps they were able to actually change the future through this precognitive dream. Or they'll talk about events that happen globally, and they'll have it dated to a therapist through an email. And then a week after the email is sent, that thing actually does happen. A tsunami that occurs in Japan. And this person says, I had a dream about this a week before. And there have been some. Some what I would consider, like, fairly credible. But the concern with that is that it's so difficult to actually analyze because there's no repeatability. Because most of these people say, I don't want this to happen. I'm not invoking it to happen. It just occurs to me. So I'm curious, with these types of psi experiences, you can call it, which of them do you find to be the most credible when it comes to actually existing and being able to be proven within a controlled environment?

[Les Velez]

Well, I've worked with psychedelics, psychics, and this one gal out of Canada who works with the Canadian Mounted Police, finding bodies. Very repeatable. Right. She's got a remarkable record.

[Mark]

Does she have a public name or profile? Are we able to search her?

[Les Velez]

Yeah. Oh, God. I'm gonna blank on her name right now.

[Mark]

We can edit this out that way. You look like a great friend.

[Les Velez]

Okay. Oh, gosh.

[Mark]

Could you give it a search? Like Canadian Mounted Police detective or. Or psychic, rather.

[Les Velez]

Let's see. Let's. I am totally blanking on her name.

[Mark]

CRO is going to find it, I believe.

[Les Velez]

Yeah. But anyway, there's a lot of them out there that do that kind of thing. Matter of fact, I'm just wondering why they're not getting involved with trying to find what's going on with Savannah Guthrie's mother. Sure, Nancy. I mean, you would think that they would. You know, looking at it in that way.

[Mark]

I mean, Ingo Swan, of course, is a famous example. Works within Stanford Research Institute and remote viewing. Doing remote viewing. I mean, things like that I struggle with, because I say, what is happening here? How could it be the case that someone has access to perhaps the most unbelievable phenomena and power, but yet it's not just widely accepted that it does Exist. Is it truly a Cindy McIntyre is a psychic medium who's worked in missing persons within the Royal Canadian Mounted Police?

[Les Velez]

Yeah, no, but there it is. Patricia Mona.

[Mark]

Oh, Patricia Mona.

[Les Velez]

Yep. Okay. That's it.

[Mark]

I mean, yeah. Would you mind clicking on that? Christos. And interesting. So she does psychic readings and workshops now. Could you go to the about.

[Les Velez]

I'm curious if she has another story. She was telling me about the fact that this woman came to her and on one topic and she said all of a sudden it came to her that she needed to talk to her about her son. And she said, matter of fact, I interviewed. She's on one of my interviews that you have to watch your son very carefully. He may commit suicide. And she said, oh, no, we're, we're. We, we. We know. We know that and we're watching him. He did commit suicide. So where. How does this. How does this stuff. You know, you can see in the past, you can see in the future, you can see the present.

[Mark]

Mm. Now

[Les Velez]

time doesn't exist. It doesn't exist.

[Mark]

Now I'm curious. A company, some type of multinational corporation, would invest large amounts of money if they could have a competitive advantage against their other people. And of course, governments would do this. And there are some stories, Specifically through the 60s and 70s of the United States government employing remote viewers and astral projectors and people with psi abilities in order to further their military agendas. In all of the declassified documents, it seems like they acknowledged that these programs existed but that they weren't super successful and the results were a little dubious and they kind of leave it at that. That's at least my read on the evidence, but I'm skeptical. I think, okay, well, there must be something, but there must be companies or corporations. The Amazons, the Apples, the Googles, the Nvidia ideas that hire and employ these people in order to give them competitive edges.

[Les Velez]

Absolutely.

[Mark]

Have you heard of these stories? Have you heard or spoken.

[Les Velez]

I don't know of any particular company that's doing that, but I would be surprised if they weren't. Why not?

[Mark]

That's what I think. Right. If you have someone that like. I don't know how much a psychic could charge, but imagine. I imagine you could get someone that could give you some of company Inside Infinite, though that could really be beneficial and, you know, advantageous.

[Les Velez]

Well, I believe that our governments are definitely deeply involved in it. You know, you want to talk about being, being, having the advantage, you know, from a military standpoint, understanding what their capabilities are or not.

[Mark]

And you Think that is going on?

[Les Velez]

Oh, sure.

[Mark]

Do you know any current remote viewers or people you've spoken with that have been involved in these programs?

[Les Velez]

I had one McMonagle through Linda Moulton Howe. We were investigating a crashed UFO in Utah and McMonagle said that, yes, there was a crash UFO there in this Pine Valley, Utah is where we were looking. And then of course, he couldn't tell us when this occurred. Time timeline is. Is a difficult thing, evidently, with regard to remote viewing. It's. It's like. It's hard to say, did this happen today or is it going to happen tomorrow kind of a thing.

[Mark]

Did it happen?

[Les Velez]

Yeah, I see that kind of thing. But he did say that, and I had a dowser look at it. He. This is. This is a guy that oil companies use. Now. Dowsing is kind of an interesting field.

[Mark]

Right, Right.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

I mean, I've had my own experiences speaking with people like my. My wife's grandparents that built a, you know, put a well in their backyard and they had a guy go out with a dowsing rod and were able to find where the water was moving underneath the ground due to electromagnetic, you know, movements and fields within. Yeah, the backyard.

[Les Velez]

We brought the map to this guy and he had a drafting table. He used to be an engineer and he had pictures of being on a helicopter and dowsing in a helicopter for these oil companies and everything. And he drew on the map where this object was, lined it all out. And then of course, course, long story short, we. We had a gentleman that probably was. It was military and also probably CIA. And he was with you. He was going out there to. To check this out with a buddy of his who had a helicopter service. And I was supposed to go along. And then I somehow, all of a sudden I got pushed out. Out of the picture and never found out anything afterwards. Whether or not he found anything or saw anything. It's a weird story, but you did

[Mark]

the work to actually find where it was through a remote viewer and then through a dowser. Actually. Get more specific.

[Les Velez]

Exactly.

[Mark]

And then you were cut out.

[Les Velez]

Yeah, I was cut out. I was cut out.

[Mark]

And you were never able to actually go to this location.

[Les Velez]

No, no. So anyway. But anyway, supposedly this thing is so. So large they buried it there and

[Mark]

you couldn't just draw to it.

[Les Velez]

We did have. We did have a giant geologist go out and. And did some. Where they put the probes in and they hit a hammer and they get a well feedback that tells what the soil makeup is down below if it's been disturbed or not sure. And he said basically that it was disturbed and so could they use LiDAR? We didn't use LIDAR at that time. I had a couple of other guys that actually went out there and. But that. That geologist said, yeah, this. This. This soil shouldn't be like this. Right. Right here.

[Mark]

And do you think it's still buried there to this day?

[Les Velez]

I think. I think it is. I think it's down pretty deep, though. They. They buried it pretty deep.

[Mark]

When you say they.

[Les Velez]

Well, the. The government.

[Mark]

How long ago?

[Les Velez]

This is like, in the 50s.

[Mark]

And this crash was in Utah originally.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

And then they just decided to bury it still in Utah.

[Les Velez]

Oh, yeah.

[Mark]

Interesting. And is there a name for this crash?

[Les Velez]

No, there's not a particular name for it. It's. Other than it's in a Pine Valley

[Mark]

and, you know, the specific coordinates and. Are you interested in trying to go back to figure out what's going on?

[Les Velez]

There's. There's. It's funny that you say that, because I just got a call from a gentleman that's starting to dig into it and wants to do some further research, so I'm. I'm helping him.

[Mark]

How many other retrieval zones or actual spots do you know of within the United States?

[Les Velez]

Oh, gosh, there's probably four or five major ones. Ones that have occurred that are still there. Oh, I don't know if they're still there.

[Mark]

Like this Pine Valley one seems specific and interesting to me because.

[Les Velez]

Yeah, it's.

[Mark]

Hypothetically, I could go there next week and go to the spot.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

How deep down do you think? 200ft?

[Les Velez]

It's. It's got to. It's got to be at least 50, 60, 75ft down, probably, but. Don't know. Don't know. That's it. That's the biggest question. I think it has to have some further sophisticated instrumentation to take a look at it before you do any major digging.

[Mark]

Sure.

[Les Velez]

Plus, it's on BLM land, so you have to get permission, believe it or not.

[Mark]

Makes sense.

[Les Velez]

So they, you know, oh, we're going to dig up this ufo.

[Mark]

Yeah, I can see that. Not flying within the Bureau of Land Management.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

Interesting.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

Now, I'm curious, from your perspective and your worldview on. On this, is there a singular piece of evidence or story or declassified document that you find to be the most compelling? Is there a single thing that you would show to a proper skeptic and say, until you can explain this to me, I'm going to continue to believe what I believe?

[Les Velez]

That's a Good question. I've had so much over the years that have come my way, one way or another, but I think the thing that just

[Mark]

really

[Les Velez]

makes me believe that all of this is, is, is happening is the stories that these people tell me, you know, that are part of the support group and, and, and the information that, that we get through that vehicle. There's some incredible stories in there that people are talking about. Talking about. And, and then these people are, you know, afraid to, to go public. They don't want to publicize this in any way, shape or form. Yeah, I, I, I'm trying to think if there was like a, like a document of some sort that probably would walk out of here and say, oh, yeah, you can't remember right now. No, I, I, because I, there's so much coming forward now. So much. You know, you got Colthard out there doing his thing, and, you know, George Knapp and, you know, he, and they're doing such great work. You know, the Russian files that he just came out with, and everybody knows that this is happening.

[Mark]

Except another thing in this topic that I'm so curious about is why wouldn't another government disclose this? Certainly the Americans in the American, American government and the amount of hands that the American government has changed over throughout the past 100 years. We're not the only ones that know about what's happening.

[Les Velez]

No.

[Mark]

So how do we convince the Russians, the Chinese, the Indians, the French, all these different countries that we have disparate relationships with. How do we all get on the same page to not disclose this to the public?

[Les Velez]

Well, I think from a security standpoint, I think that we're trying to guard whatever knowledge we, we have versus what the Russians or the Chinese have. I think that, I think we know a lot more. I mean, I had lunch with Lou Elizondo. This is right before COVID shut everything down. And he was interviewing Terry Lovelace, who was in the military, and he wrote a book called the Incident at Devil's Den. And he and a buddy of his were out camping and they got a, abducted. And he subsequently had an implant and had X rays of it, and they were going to remove it, and then the next day the implants were gone. Anyway.

[Mark]

He still has the X ray, though.

[Les Velez]

Oh, he has the X rays.

[Mark]

Wow.

[Les Velez]

Oh, yeah, he's got, oh, he's well documented.

[Mark]

Is that public? I mean, could you look that. I would love to see that.

[Les Velez]

Yeah. I don't know if you're going to get it page by page, but Incident

[Mark]

at Devil's Den, that's a really interesting case.

[Les Velez]

Yeah, it is really interesting in case and there, there's a guy that I know very well. Matter of fact, he's on our advisory board. The stuff that he had to go through with the government non disclosure stuff and he was interrogated Sodium pentathol injected into him. All kinds of stuff. Oh yeah. Wow. Yeah. So. But I think, I think what's going on is that the major players the Russians, US and China. Chinese. All right. Trying to keep this close to the vest. Yeah, There you go.

[Mark]

On Twitter here it says are Terry Lovelace spoke about his X rays which reveal mysterious metallic objects in his leg. And here are the X rays. Would you mind clicking on that? Are you stuck staring at your W2? Our tax refund worries holding you back?

[Les Velez]

You probably have FOMO.

[Mark]

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[Les Velez]

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[Les Velez]

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[Mark]

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[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

And then upon removal, they were no longer there.

[Les Velez]

Yeah, they were gone. Yep. Look at that one. That was an interesting one.

[Mark]

Now is there a skeptics explanation on this? Is there a skeptics explanation to this? Is there? Oh, these are calcium deposits. No, I mean that's crazy.

[Les Velez]

Look at that. Look at that one.

[Mark]

So strange.

[Les Velez]

Looks like a paw print of some sort of.

[Mark]

Right.

[Les Velez]

But no, no, but they, they were physically going to remove them and they were gone.

[Mark]

And no one's offered an explanation to say no, Terry's a liar. This is not true. This is like.

[Les Velez]

No, I mean this was well documented by the government. Not that we should believe the government.

[Mark]

So the major players you think are in cooperation to not just disclose this?

[Les Velez]

Yeah, I, I, I, I mean, well, they want to protect what they know. I mean, what an advantage it would be to understand how these craft. Where I was going with the Lou Elizondo story, besides talking about Terry was the fact that they feel they understand how These things operate. They create this bubble and it defies gravity, basically. And so they can do these incredible moves. That creates 90,000 GS and.

[Mark]

But they're within this anti gravity sort of thing.

[Les Velez]

Yeah, yeah. And it, and he says it's not a big power source. It's not element 115, he said. Right. But so they, they know a lot more and they're just not telling anybody about it.

[Mark]

And they're all trying to keep it quiet in order to advance their own personal agendas.

[Les Velez]

Right.

[Mark]

And now as far as a hobbyist astronomer goes, they wouldn't be able to see something flying through the atmosphere. Atmosphere and descending into the water, perhaps. And you're able to report that?

[Les Velez]

Sure.

[Mark]

Have there been reports of things?

[Les Velez]

Well, they're starting, they're starting to put that kind of information out there to people that, you know, you can report. There's a place where you can report the aaro, this organization that was set up. Yeah, Arrow. And so you can report whatever you find. And so they've opened it up now to the military too. Before you couldn't report that. These things. Right. Now we're reporting them. Right.

[Mark]

There was a concern, especially back in the day, that if you reported on these things that you would be seen as gone, you know, crazy, unstable, psychotic. And then you.

[Les Velez]

Same thing with the airlines. Right. Airline pilots were afraid to talk about it. This guy that, this Japanese crew that saw this huge ufo, you know, they were flying from somewhere to Japan.

[Mark]

What year is this?

[Les Velez]

This. Oh, God. Roughly speaking, it was near Alaska where it all happened. 1990s. I want to see the 80s.

[Mark]

Okay?

[Les Velez]

But this, this, they have pictures of this thing. I mean, drawings of, of the object, I mean, was massive and it was on radar. They have FAA reports. There was another big press conference at the National Press Club years ago where the, the head of the FAA that was involved and the, the FBI, maybe the CIA came in and wanted all the documentation. And he kept it, he kept part of it.

[Mark]

He.

[Les Velez]

So he has all this documentation where they, they, they have exactly what was going on with the plane, what was happening with that object, and what was the conversation that was going on with the pilots? And I mean, it's real. It was very real.

[Mark]

Hmm. Now why disclosure now? I mean, granted, we haven't got to a point of full disclosure, but we are seeing way more breadcrumbs in the last eight years than we have maybe in the totality of the United States ever even existing. So why is there so much more discussion about it? Why are we Bringing whistleblowers forward in front of Congress. Is this a part of a coordinated effort or is this legitimate disclosure that the United States is ready to.

[Les Velez]

There are different people that are in the right position. Position or had been in the right position to understand what was going on in the government. And they, they got, they got tired of it. They got tired of it and mad. You know, Lou quit basically over the whole thing. And I think that he has a lot to do with it. I mean, he's, he's one of the heroes, I guess, if you will, along with Melon and a few other people. The group that.

[Mark]

Eric Davis.

[Les Velez]

Yeah, Eric Davis. Another. All coming forward with a lot of dynamite information. Now, Gary Nolan from Stanford University, that's got the Soul organization, and he wants all these scientists to come together and try to look at this, this thing. And he's an experiencer himself. Yeah.

[Mark]

I'm curious why now.

[Les Velez]

You are too?

[Mark]

Yeah, I guess maybe, maybe in a past life. Yeah. I, again, it's just, I, I, I, I'm just so curious as to what is actually happening and the fact that it seems like we're on the precipice of such a massive release of information, but yet no one cares. You know, it's like it. I don't want to hearken everything back to the Epstein files, but it almost seems like that in a way where you have this massive.

[Les Velez]

I was going to say it if you didn't.

[Mark]

You have a massive flood of information kind of confirming what people have speculated for the past 15 years, that people at the highest levels of government are all sort of controlled, that a lot of the politics we see is sort of theatrical, and that some of the people at the highest levels of American society are engaged in the most nefarious acts you could possibly imagine, likely for the desired outcome of blackmail and control. It's pretty shocking. If you told someone that this would happen five years ago, they would say you're crazy. And it feels like the disclosure thing is kind of a similar kind of foil that you have, know, these open hearings with pilots that have experienced things and the Navy putting out video footage and everyone's just kind of like.

[Les Velez]

It is amazing, isn't it? Yeah, it is amazing. You know, you have to scratch your head over it, and then I've scratched my head enough that all the hair is gone.

[Mark]

I'm curious, do you think that these, these giant military contractors, the Lockheed, the Northrop Grummans, the Boeings, do you think they have access to the, these crash retrievals?

[Les Velez]

Oh, absolutely. Ab that's where a lot of that stuff has ended up.

[Mark]

What makes you so confident about that?

[Les Velez]

Well, I think that, you know, under the Freedom of Information act, they're, they're, they're, they're totally immune to it. We, you know, we can't file a Freedom of Information act against Lockheed Martin. They just laugh.

[Mark]

Why?

[Les Velez]

Because it only pertains to the federal government. Okay. Federal government has to come forward with information, but those companies, they don't have to. And that's why Eisenhower talked about the military industrial complex way back when.

[Mark]

I think he coined the term.

[Les Velez]

He absolutely did. And, and it's probably because he had that meeting at Holloman Air Force Base when this craft supposedly came down and he was missing an action. Eisenhower was missing an action, supposedly at a dental appointment. He was out there meeting with these, this alien and then he saw what was going to happen next and that it, all this stuff was put into the, these companies.

[Mark]

Is Eisenhower.

[Les Velez]

Yeah, Eisenhower.

[Mark]

You think he experienced gray?

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

And where, where do you, what, how

[Les Velez]

do you deduce that the story is. Okay.

[Mark]

And the story comes from him?

[Les Velez]

No, not directly from him, no, but the people around him that basically he was in Palm Desert and then supposedly he was missing. Reporters wondered where he was. And then supposedly later on they, he had an emergency dental appointment as they talked about. And supposedly that's when he went out to the base and met with these or I don't know how many aliens. I think it was at least one. And they made some kind of deal. Supposedly, the story goes that they were given permission to abduct people to a certain degree. To a certain degree on the basis that these aliens would give us some technology.

[Mark]

And what's.

[Les Velez]

How true. I don't know how true that story is, but it's just coincidental that, you know, soon afterwards he comes up with this, you know, beware of the military industrial complex.

[Mark]

Right. Interesting.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

So you think that these private companies have access to this kind of information?

[Les Velez]

Totally.

[Mark]

And they're completely immune.

[Les Velez]

I mean, you're talking about it all these, in these congressional hearings, they're talking about that.

[Mark]

So who oversees them? Congress says they're not briefed. Does the President know?

[Les Velez]

Well, I don't know how true this is, but I just saw something on social media here that supposedly Trump is going to make some major announcement regarding US UFOs. Whether that's true or not, I, I don't know. You can't believe half the stuff that's on there.

[Mark]

Sure.

[Les Velez]

But no, it's, it's it's a, a field that is full of a lot of conjecture, probably a lot of falsehoods, and you have to sift through it as best you can, and it's not easy. It's not easy.

[Mark]

Dave Rush said the name of some of the contractors in close testimony.

[Les Velez]

Oh, yeah, he did.

[Mark]

Do you know which one?

[Les Velez]

Lockheed Martin was probably one of the biggest ones. You, you named all the military contractors. That, that's probably where the stuff is, other than Wright Patterson Air Force Base.

[Mark]

H. I'm curious, what is your assessment of Bob Lazar?

[Les Velez]

Oh, I think he's probably telling the truth. Yeah. Yeah, I think he's telling the truth. George Knapp has interviewed him so many times and knows him very well that he's talked about the fact that he believes what he's, what he's saying.

[Mark]

Yeah, I don't think he's lying.

[Les Velez]

No.

[Mark]

Either people have pointed out that there are some holes or discrepancies within his story. Do you think that that is something that is created by the powers that be in order to discredit him?

[Les Velez]

Oh, I think they, you know, when they first, when he first came out with it, they said, well, he never worked here.

[Mark]

Right.

[Les Velez]

And they found out later that of course he did work there.

[Mark]

Right. And then there's the MIT connection, I believe.

[Les Velez]

Yeah. Right.

[Mark]

That they've had a hard time verifying that.

[Les Velez]

Verifying that. I, yeah.

[Mark]

Is that possible that they've gone through and said, hey, this guy didn't exist? You're going to make him look crazy.

[Les Velez]

Okay. I, I, in that, in that video that I gave you, the, the flyer on the movie, the movie, there's a man in, in there, guy's name is Wittenberger, and he talks about living near Wright Patterson Air Force Base and that he was abducted one night. Okay. And this was when he was like five years old. He was taken through the window with his blanket, but the window wasn't open. It went through the glass and the blanket got stuck in, in the glass. But he was taken out. The military came in or some governmental agency came in and took the whole window out. It's, it's, they, he and his mother were then to taken to the military base and with, I guess the military, with the idea that the military was going to do something with them because they, they were abducted by the military basically. Also after the, the, the other abduction, they're brought into a room and a little while later, this alien was brought in on a gurney. It was alive and the alien put his hand on their head to basically erase what was going on. And this is his remembrance of, of. Of the action that was going on at the time. Now here's a five year old, okay. And he said that whatever they did didn't erase anything, but it scared the hell out of him. It's the first time he ever seen an alien. And the story gets even crazier where somebody came into the room that wasn't supposed to be in a room and he supposedly disappeared. There was an article in the paper. They tried to find the paper describing, describing the incident with the sightings and various action. You couldn't find any of those papers. We tried to go through all the archives. This happened in Ohio. The Ohio archives, newspaper archives, couldn't find any papers around that time. They were all gone. This is how they can do. They can just wipe out things, no problem.

[Mark]

The information can get manipulated.

[Les Velez]

Yep.

[Mark]

So in the case of Babasar, is it possible that you have people hyping the government to say, hey, if you guys want this military fund, this funding for your research lab, the subsidy, then can you do us a little favor?

[Les Velez]

Sure.

[Mark]

Make it look like this guy was never here, etc?

[Les Velez]

Oh yeah.

[Mark]

Interesting. Yeah. I'm curious if there's other stories in that vein.

[Les Velez]

I mean, you know, you, you hear what these people are saying at the congressional hearings and people are being threatened and killed. Yeah.

[Mark]

I mean, Grush, I think, said himself that he was intimidated. And to me, those were the most interesting things. The intimidation part and him discussing these non human biologics, as he calls them. What could that mean? Like, is it possible this guy Grush is being used? Is it possible they're being fed false information to create this narrative? Or is it possible, possible that he's just forthcoming about what he saw and that he's completely protected by the governmental powers? Because both options feel to me to be a little wild.

[Les Velez]

Well, I, I think that he's being truthful. I think he's. He's probably wants to get the word out to protect himself. What a better way to do that? By coming out and being forthright about it and saying, hey, look, and I've been threatened and all this kind of stuff and.

[Mark]

But the fact that he just hasn't already had an accident.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

Or gotten a little depressed, you know, like the fact that this is happening now whereas 20 years ago it's possible these people would have just disappeared or.

[Les Velez]

Right.

[Mark]

You know, been laid off or been put in a psychiatric facility with old Jolly west or something like that.

[Les Velez]

Pushed out a window. Sure. 10th floor?

[Mark]

Yeah, like all these stories of MK Ultra, you know, victims being defenestrated and all of a sudden they're just gone. Like, why is it now that these people are now being legitimized, put in front of Congress and then written up in the New York Times? Was there just a massive shift psychologically where people are ready for this information? Does the United States want to get an edge? I'm curious what I don't think is

[Les Velez]

happening, just getting an edge. Because I think if I had a lot of information and I didn't want our adversaries to know about it, I wouldn't want to be having congressional hearings and talking about it. But at the same time you have two different groups. You have a group that's really, really wants it out in another group that doesn't want it out. And I think the group that wants it out has got a lot more horses behind it right now that, that are pushing it. You know, Danny Sheen is doing a hell of a job trying to get the word out and his organization. And Steve Bassett, you know, he's another guy that's been doing this. One of the first lobbyists on UFOs at, you know, Congress. Um, so I think it's just a, interesting time, you know, why is it now? I'm glad it's now. Hopefully maybe we'll really get it before I croak.

[Mark]

Do you think that there's any reverse engineered technology that is meant entered into regular consumption?

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

What do you think that would be?

[Les Velez]

Well, if you read the, or know about the book the Day After Roswell,

[Mark]

Colonel Corso and for the silicon chips, things like that.

[Les Velez]

Yeah, the chips. Velcro, night vision, you know, plethora of things that supposedly they reverse engineered. And I met Corso at the 50th anniversary of Roswell and I had an opportunity to talk with him and I said, hey, you were in the Eisenhower administration, you were well respected, respect it. And here you're writing a book about UFOs and aliens. I'm just surprised that you're doing it. Are you worried about your reputation and things like that? He says no. He says, our children, our grandkids, need to know this. This is true.

[Mark]

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[Les Velez]

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[Mark]

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[Les Velez]

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[Mark]

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[Les Velez]

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[Mark]

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[Les Velez]

The way he said that to me, this guy wasn't bullshitting. He saw the damn things. He knows it's real. So I. That maybe that's the most incredible thing that I. I could hang my hat on and say that's why I believe that this guy. That is.

[Mark]

What was his role with. In the government?

[Les Velez]

He was a military. I want to say, not advisor, but he was high up in the group in. In the Eisenhower administration. I'm not exactly sure. You can maybe look it up. Yeah, yeah.

[Mark]

His name was Colonel Corso. Corso.

[Les Velez]

Corso. And Day After Roswell is the book.

[Mark]

Right. And you find not only his experience to be, you know, legitimate, but his perspective and the way he's conducted himself on this topic to be very compelling.

[Les Velez]

Yes.

[Mark]

Interesting. And that experience you had with him,

[Les Velez]

It's a good read. It's a good read.

[Mark]

Right. That experience you had with him, you would say, was very moving. Why is it so important that your grandkids know?

[Les Velez]

It's like understanding another reality that exists and that it shouldn't be a surprise that. And hopefully we're dealing with. I mean, there's all kinds of talk about the fact that while we're dealing with multiple groups, some of the groups are good, some of the groups are not so good. All right? And the good ones are trying to help us and the bad ones are trying to knock us off. And so hopefully the good guys win. And so we need to understand that too. Because, I mean, you know, Lou Elizondo talks about what's the matter? Motivation. Why are they, you know, showing up the way they're showing up now? And there's something afoot. I mean, there's talk about 2027 being a very dramatic year. I don't know. You've ever heard about the psychic Baba Vanga?

[Mark]

Yeah, of course.

[Les Velez]

Yeah. And you know, her prediction about 2027, that this huge asteroid or meteor is going to hit the Earth, guided here by a aliens. And NASA had a conference in Japan and they talked about a large meteor hitting the Earth in 2027. Theoretical. Right, theoretical. And. And they had a glide path and everything where it was going to hit.

[Mark]

Where's it going to hit?

[Les Velez]

You know, in the Pacific.

[Mark]

It's an interesting.

[Les Velez]

And she predicted, you know, the Twin towers thing and 9 11, I should say. Twin towers, 9 11. These are interesting times. And we have capabilities we've never had before. That's why it's all coming out. I mean, again, the phone. You got a phone there? All right. We communicate now constantly. We're constantly communicating. There's hardly any time during the day you're not looking at your phone, which is crazy, totally crazy. And so we're getting information downloaded constantly. Some of it true, some of it baloney, and that makes it difficult. And now you got AI on top of everything else.

[Mark]

Yeah, of course. I'm curious, with your experience, you've met so many people within the UFO community. Basically everyone at this point seems like, are there artists that exist within the community that Are there Placed by the feds, placed by oppositional forces?

[Les Velez]

There have been, and most of them have been outed in one way or another.

[Mark]

Do you think there are any currently

[Les Velez]

of the people that I really pay attention to? I don't think so. I think they're all legitimate. There's been some talk about COLART being some kind of a disinformation. Ancient. But I don't believe that. I, I think people are just kind of. Where the hell did that guy come from?

[Mark]

You know, I'm not as familiar with his work, to be honest.

[Les Velez]

Yeah, he's.

[Mark]

He's.

[Les Velez]

He really does a good job I, I think talking about the topic and bringing in good people to talk about what they know. He's from Australia and Interesting.

[Mark]

Yeah, I'm. You don't think that there's. The government has a vested interest in trying to disrupt this community?

[Les Velez]

Sure. Oh, absolutely.

[Mark]

Do you think they're doing that?

[Les Velez]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Mark]

Are they doing agents or Just putting information.

[Les Velez]

Had, had problems. She's had problems.

[Mark]

What do you mean?

[Les Velez]

Basically she's getting false information from people and, and, or being told one thing and then something else happening and, and being threatened in, in a, in, in a way. So I know that personally from her. And so it's, there's, there's, like I say, there's two factions. One wants it to come out, another doesn't want it to come out. And so they're, they're going to start throwing as much against the wall as possible to slow it down.

[Mark]

If there was a single piece of evidence or you know, a one government document that you were given this executive power to retrieve and put publish and it would just basically put this entire thing to rest once and for all.

[Les Velez]

But even if, what would it be? Yeah, but even if you had that piece of paper, 99% of the people wouldn't care. They wouldn't care. I mean look at the Twining memo. Guy says yeah, they're out there, there's something going on. We have to look at it. That's, that happened back in the, you know, in the 50s and now you got the, the Wilson thing that, that came out. That's pretty significant. Yeah.

[Mark]

Wilson did this.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

Here, this is the Twining memo here that says Cold War era Air force document in 1947 after a wave of UFO sightings, specifically Roswell, General Twining, then the head of something. Chris, would you mind scrolling over just a little bit? The head of the Air Material Command sent a classified memo to the Pentagon about flying disc. In the memo he stated the phenomenon reported as something real and not visionary or fiction, fictitious. The line is why the memo is frequently cited UFO discussions. Now the memo suggested that the objects are a real phenomena. They that further investigation is warranted. And would you mind scrolling down Christos, There seems like there's some confusion as to the launch of Project blue book in 1952 which really formalized the investigations. Interesting.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

So is there something that is more compelling than this that you think exists within some type of classified Vol.

[Les Velez]

I mean, you know, if you, any of the books that Stanton Freeman has written, Edgar Hoover's, you know, memos about the topic and there's just so much information out there. You just pick one or two or three or four or ten that talk about this topic, that it's real, it's,

[Mark]

it's not fake, is if there's something that you could see for yourself and you were given full access to any of the US Government's vaults.

[Les Velez]

Well, I Mean supposedly Danny Sheehan got into the National Archives and saw saw pictures where a crash retrieval was being done. I'd love to see that.

[Mark]

Would you not want to go see an actual reverse engineered lab where you could go see the crash itself?

[Les Velez]

Yeah, oh, sure. Matter of fact, Congress went down to Florida to get to Supposedly there's a UFO down there. I think it's the same one that Jackie Gleason took or Nixon down to. Or Nixon took Gleason down to see this. This ufo. Eglin Air Force Base, I think is where they went. Anyway, this congressional committee went down there to get in there to look at it and they refused the entry. They refused the now here, here's Congress can't get in.

[Mark]

Jackie Gleason's wife tells a story that she swears is true. That in 1973 she wrote an unpublished book about their marriage. He returned back from Florida shaken. And after refusing to tell her why he was so upset, Gleason confided that earlier in the day Nixon had arranged for them to visit Homestead Air Force Base.

[Les Velez]

Okay, Homestead.

[Mark]

Upon his arrival, armed guards took Gleason to a building. Building to a building at a remote location. There Gleason harbored an intense interest in UFOs saw the embalmed bodies of four alien beings, two feet long, with small bald heads and big ears. She was told nothing about the circumstances of their recovery. He swore his wife to secrecy. But after the divorce, she discussed the story freely. Wow, I've never heard that story before. That's really interesting.

[Les Velez]

It's been happening and it's all over the place and yet, but we're, we're a little bit further along. It seems like every, every time we, we start this process at some point in the past anyway, it's died. I mean, was it 68? Ford had a congressional hearing on the topic and then nothing much happened after that.

[Mark]

Yeah. It feels as though for those who believe no proof is necessary and for those who don't believe no proof, proof is enough. And that outside of perhaps a saucer landing in Times Square a la Orson Welles.

[Les Velez]

Wait, wait a minute. How about the White House lawn?

[Mark]

Yeah, maybe that, maybe that. Outside of that, I don't know if there's going to be something that's going to really shake up the American public. And I also think that if there's a full blown disclosure, 2027, the US government says, you know what, we're not alone. The United States states have been in contact with extraterrestrials. There's many different types There's Nordics and Reptilians and interdimensionals and actually Eisenhower broker to deal with them back in, you know, 57 or whatever. I think that people would say, oh, this is a psyop.

[Les Velez]

Or they're going to say, oh, we knew it. Yeah, of course, of course.

[Mark]

I think the most likely thing is that conspiracy theorists say this is not true. I think they say this is the government feeding us information in order to create a war world government. I think that there's going to be this massive wave for disclosure. Then once it happens, there's going to be massive resistance pushing against it. Well, that's my prediction.

[Les Velez]

People have talked about, you know, the question of whether or not what would happen if that disclosure did happen and you know, would, would the population, you know, riot or something? You know, I think 70% of the people would have no problem with it. I think 30% of the people might have real issues with it. But.

[Mark]

Well, I think we'll see. I think from both sides of the. I think there's going to be people that won't believe it at all. And then I think there's going to be people that have been abducted themselves that say I should be compensated for the fact that the government sold me out to these foreign beings and told me crazy the whole time. Is there legal recourse for people like that?

[Les Velez]

Could be. And the backside of that too is the fact that these people could be relegated it to. Oh, you're an abductee. Well, I won't have anything to do with you. You know, there's that backside of it that could be really negative for the, for the experiencers, especially if they have psychic abilities and telepathic capabilities. Sure. You know, Gary Nolan, evidently they did analysis of 10 people. I think it was 10 people and their brain. They looked at their brain, brains and in the area of the caudate and putamin, there was a lot more connections in these people that supposedly had experiences that gave them capability of being telepathic and psychic. And interesting theory that he came up with. He says, you know, the geologists say that our planet is 4.5 billion years old. Okay. He says, says the human genome mutates about every 6, 600,000 years. He says in order for us to be where we are now, the planet would have to be 9 billion years old. Unless some, somebody somewhere manipulated what was going on with us, push us along, pushed us along. And that seems to be more logical than anything that, you know, we, our evolution has been sped up in some Way or shape or form. So hearing it from him, I was blown away when he talked about that. It's phenomenal, Phenomenal bit of information, you know, to say that. And of course, what's happening with that is if we continue to have that going on because these people connect with one another, they're able to actually sense these, one another and they're going to have children and their children are going to have children. So we're having an evolutionary process going on where eventually we will all have that capability and the ones that don't have it won't be here anymore.

[Mark]

What's going to happen to them?

[Les Velez]

They're just going to die off. It's going to die off.

[Mark]

You think it's a dominant trait?

[Les Velez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark]

Psychic ability parents will pass on to their children.

[Les Velez]

Right. Because it's generational. Because these people, they find out when they, after they, they talk to them, is that their, their parents and their grandparents had the same thing going on.

[Mark]

Do you have a psychic ability?

[Les Velez]

No, not that I'm aware of.

[Mark]

We'll be the last generation, perhaps.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

Do you know any remote viewers?

[Les Velez]

Yes, I do.

[Mark]

Do you know any that would be willing to talk to me?

[Les Velez]

Sure, I would love that. You know who set this up? Michelle.

[Mark]

Right.

[Les Velez]

She's a remote viewer.

[Mark]

Oh, she really?

[Les Velez]

Oh, yeah. I didn't know that. That's so funny. Ah, yeah.

[Mark]

Let me go reach out to her.

[Les Velez]

Yeah. Matter of fact, she looked at the Skinner Walker ranch for me. Oh, really? Yeah.

[Mark]

And.

[Les Velez]

And they, they feel that there's something down there.

[Mark]

Yeah, I've heard, heard. I've heard many stories.

[Les Velez]

Matter of fact, she has a friend that's a psychic or remote viewer and they both looked at it and they both came up with the same thing, which was something's down there.

[Mark]

A leyline something.

[Les Velez]

No, it's not a leyline. It's supposedly portal. Not a portal. It's. It's a physical thing.

[Mark]

And who knows about it?

[Les Velez]

Well, I do.

[Mark]

In good hands then. Well, Les, I really appreciate the time. Thank you so much, brother.

[Les Velez]

Thank you.

[Mark]

This was really fun. I appreciate you answering my questions. I know that perhaps weren't the easiest of the questions. I try to get to the crux of what bothers me.

[Les Velez]

That's great.

[Mark]

I feel like you did a really great job and I appreciate the perspective a lot.

[Les Velez]

Thank you, Mark.

[Mark]

The Unknown Other is available on Amazon right now. It's not going to be signed like my copy.

[Les Velez]

That's true.

[Mark]

The good people listening at home can check it out. I think a great pitch for this is that it really, I think, is just based off even our conversation and kind of flicking through it. A great, great intro.

[Les Velez]

Yeah.

[Mark]

For someone that's interested in understanding the phenomena from really an experiencer's perspective and what it means to really have experienced these things. And if there's people out there that have, you know, some vague memories of experiences that happen to them, this probably would give them a lot of context. And if there's someone that has no idea what's going on about any of this, someone like myself, there's probably a great way to get some information.

[Les Velez]

Absolutely. You know, and it's oftentimes, you know, one of the people in a marriage or something hasn't experienced, the other one doesn't. Wasn't. You can at least give that person the book.

[Mark]

At the very least, read this first. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Liz. I appreciate it and I appreciate the time. Yeah, of course. As things develop, I'd love to chat more.

[Les Velez]

Sure. Absolutely.

[Mark]

Thank you.

[Les Velez]

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[Mark]

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[Les Velez]

But Ultra is a whole the whole lineup now.

[Mark]

You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise, and Vice Guava. And they all bring the Monster Energy punch. So if you've been living in the

[Les Velez]

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