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- [00:00]
Mark Gagnon
The UFO world can be commercialized.
- [00:04]
Jordan
I mean, they made upwards of a million plus dollars.
- [00:07]
Mark Gagnon
Wow. So you can just go on a forum or a message board. Aggregate a bunch of this episode is.
- [00:13]
Darcy Weir
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- [00:41]
Jordan
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- [01:11]
Mark Gagnon
Conspiracies tied into a narrative, spouted off and potentially making millions of dollars.
- [01:15]
Jordan
If you're out of a job, just call yourself a secret space program whistleblower and you can probably make some money for yourself.
- [01:21]
Darcy Weir
We are uncovering a fraud, a hoax, a really well constructed marketed story that mind all of these conspiracy tropes.
- [01:33]
Mark Gagnon
There is potentially a grift happening.
- [01:36]
Jordan
My cut was 15%. I think the film made million plus dollars too. A bunch of people stopped getting paid, including myself and I think some others. I would venture to guess there's probably about 25 to $30,000 I got out of over the past probably four years.
- [01:54]
Mark Gagnon
Maybe even on a larger, more sinister scale. There is a cult that is potentially brewing within the greater UFO community, specifically Corey.
- [02:04]
Jordan
But what they would do is use the testimony coming out in the mainstream and sort of tell their followers, look, it's confirming me and my testimony and that would help sort of imbue that validity.
- [02:18]
Mark Gagnon
Or that's a clever fallacy. Like they called this crazy and now it's true. So if they're calling me crazy, it will also be true. Darcy and Jordan, how are we?
- [02:34]
Darcy Weir
Good.
- [02:34]
Mark Gagnon
Thank you guys so much for being here man. I really appreciate it. This is a really interesting episode for me. I feel like you're going to be able to contextualize and tie in a lot of things that are currently happening in the UFO UAP phenomena space. Okay, Darcy, I just watched Dark Alliance. It's fascinating and I think is a great case study for how the UFO world in some capacities can be commercialized and how there is potentially a grift happening and how maybe even on a larger, more sinister scale there is a cult that is potentially brewing within the greater UFO community. And you know, certainly some people will say, look, all of the UFO stuff that's happening right now, it is fully main stage is, you know, getting brought to Congress. There are millions and millions of dollars getting funneled into the UFO entertainment space. Right, no, no pun intended. Right, the UFO space. But is it a psyop done by the government to try to make people look crazy and are they propping up people to discredit the entire thing? Is it just a money making grift for people to get rich? Or are we really on the precipice of some type of imminent disclosure that there are actually non human entities coming to earth and messing with human beings? Or is it maybe a mixture of all of it? So I'm curious, Darcy, could you just give the people an introduction to you and how you got involved in this project and then maybe introduce us to Jordan as well and how he plays a role?
- [04:12]
Darcy Weir
Sure. So sure he wants to chime in on this pretty quickly, but I'll just say like my background in it. I started making documentaries, like research films on this UFO space back in 20. Like the first one I released was in 2012. I was starting to investigate it in 2009. And you know, when I first got into this, I was a full believer. Everything you could throw at me, I was like, this is real. You know, and I think a lot of people that enter this space, they get flooded by a whole bunch of disinformation, misinformation, hoaxes. And throughout time, if you stick with it, you're eventually going to kind of like weed through it and find the kernels of truth. And for me, the kernels of truth are there is a very real phenomenon that has been engaging with our planet, so to speak, for decades. I think there was a cover up, like a legitimate program to say nothing to see here folks, to the public. Some of that might have been sort of reverse engineered black project, you know, clandestine military projects that they were testing out and regular folks saw it and thought what the hell was that? And then people come along and say it's aliens or it's the Russians or whatever, right? But some of it, it's possible we live in a friggin galaxy with millions of stars and you know, you follow the Drake equation. There's probably other life forms out there. And is all of it alien life? I don't know. But I. I leave my mind open to the idea that maybe some of those cases are right. Like there's just some really strange events in history that have happened. Like Westall 66, Virginia in Brazil, people will say, Roswell. You know, there's an old memo from the Roswell crash communications with the Air Force where it literally says three bodies were recovered from the crashed craft. You know, so we know that there was some kind of occupants on board. And that's where people go, okay, they were the grays or this or that. Right? I'm open to it. But in this docu series where Jordan was brought in to give his personal testimony, we are uncovering a fraud, a hoax, a really well constructed marketed story that mined all of these conspiracy tropes or themes that existed in the community already. Like the idea of a secret space program or extraterrestrials interfacing with us, doing joint programs in space. That's the Galactic Federation. It's, you know, it touches on all of these things that you can't prove. It's just straight up sensationalism. And as you watched in the doc, there's a deposition. This all ended in court battles. And that deposition tape was an African American Hollywood actor named Leon Isaac Kennedy. His defense team was examining or interviewing Corey Goode, one of the major figures to this cult, let's say, trying to find out if he actually did go to space as a secret space astronaut or super soldier.
- [08:40]
Mark Gagnon
What's up, camp family? What's up, campers? Two big announcements. Don't skip this. Two massive announcements. The merch store is back open. That's right. Camp goods is back in stock. We got these hats that I'm wearing right now. I've been rocking them both on here on flagrant. I've been wearing them on stage. We got a bunch more hats like the ones behind me. You can see them all here on the website. We also got some shirts. Oh, man. What is this one right here? Come on now. Come on now. Camp Gear for all terrain. We got some other ones. What is this one right here? Oh, this one's beautiful. This one might be one of my favorites. The colors. The colors are absolutely crazy. This is Camp Gagnon. Vintage wisdom across the globe. Come on now. We got all that and more on the store. We also got these sick mugs right here. You might have seen me maybe sipping from one of these in some of the recent episodes. These are Sick. They are all available on the website campgoods Co. Check it out. Link is in the description. And by supporting the merchandise, you are obviously supporting the show. You're supporting me, and you're obviously, you know, supporting all the amazing people that make the show happen, like Christos, who is currently throwing me T shirts from underneath this desk here. So please check that out. Additionally, I'm on the road. That's right. I'm doing my one hour of standup comedy. Some of some of the greatest jokes ever written. Okay, that's not true, but they are my jokes and I wrote them. And I'll be in Rochester, New York, March 26, and I'll be in in Portland, Maine on April 27. And that one I'm I'm doing with Joey Avery. You know Joey Avery, a friend of the show. He sat across from me many times and I'm explaining some things to him. And he might be my dumb friend, but he is a brilliant standup comedian. And we will be there in Portland, Maine, if you are in these areas, please come out. And we're adding a ton of dates all through the summer. So check out my website, themarkgagnon.com for all tour dates and updated info. Come hang out with me. I talk to every single person after the show. If you want to kick it with me, maybe have a drink, I'll be there and I will see you guys on the road. Imagine this. You're 30ft underground, digging through frozen earth with spoons and mess hall plates. Nazi guards patrol overhead. One wrong move, one loose pebble, and it's over. But on this night in 1944, 76 Allied prisoners would attempt the impossible, tunneling their way to freedom in the largest prisoner of war escape of World War II and centuries earlier. In a cold stone chamber, a teenage girl in armor stood before her accusers. Her crime? Leading armies, speaking to angels, and daring to challenge the most powerful men in Europe. Joan of Arc's trial would become one of history's most infamous moments. These are just two stories from Today in History, the newsletter that brings you the most fascinating events from the the past delivered fresh to your inbox. From epic wars to religious rebellions, ancient mysteries to modern marvels, don't miss another piece of history. Scan the QR code now or click the link in the description to sign up for Today in History. Right. Yeah, I think let's unpack a little bit of what that was. But before we do that, Jordan, how do you factor into this and what was your sort of interest in sort of the phenomena. And how did you get involved with this sort of secret space program organization?
- [11:49]
Jordan
Yeah.
- [11:49]
Mark Gagnon
Or this movement?
- [11:50]
Jordan
Rather a little bit of my background. And then I'll give you my $0.02 on what I think with the whole UFO issue. So in 2017, I started a YouTube channel called Destroying the Illusion. And there were three main subjects that I researched and reported on that I was interested in. One was health, one was UFOs, and one was politics. And I had that YouTube channel till right before the 2020 election. I got everything censored within about a week. 250,000 subscribers on YouTube, gone. 100,000 on Instagram, gone. A hundred thousand on Facebook, gone. So rough timeframe there. But from about 2017 to 2020, I was reporting on all those things. The UFO subject, the Q phenomenon, separate conversation. But because of my, I think, how my YouTube channel grew, people like Corey and David kind of saw, hey, I can use this guy. Because I was believing I'd been following David Wilcox since about 2012 and reading his stuff and was following their work. And I think they saw me, hey, let's bring this kid in and he can help on some projects and all of that.
- [12:57]
Darcy Weir
So he could be an extra layer of influencer work that we're doing.
- [13:02]
Jordan
Right.
- [13:03]
Darcy Weir
Because. Because he appealed to a younger demographic.
- [13:05]
Jordan
Right.
- [13:06]
Mark Gagnon
And you're also just an additional mouthpiece. Right. Like if you're trying to move a message and maybe, you know, rightly or wrongly, like, not even trying to speculate on the intention or even the truthfulness of what the claim is, just having additional people that can sort of proselytize on behalf of the movement is always going to be beneficial. Yeah.
- [13:23]
Darcy Weir
And what was it, like 100,000 subscribers on YouTube or.
- [13:28]
Jordan
So Corey and his team, I think it was Roger, contacted me in about April 2017 when I had about 20,000 subs. And they said, hey, will you come meet us at this UFO conference called Contact in the Desert? Meet the team and start working on some projects. I said, oh, cool, I'll go do that. So I flew out to the Contact in the Desert event, and that's where I met Corey and the team and kind of started working on some projects with them. And then quickly we started producing a film called Above Majestic. And me and a videographer were pretty much the main producers of that film. We were going around the country, we were meeting with people, and Above Majestic ended up coming out in October 2018. But yeah, that timeframe of 2017 to late 2019, early 2020, I was doing just a lot of Work with those guys, producing films, going to speak at UFO events, going to Corey's house to help with projects like webinars and things like that. So I ended up learning kind of a lot about those guys behind the scenes, how they operated, not just their narratives, but how they were from a business standpoint too.
- [14:37]
Mark Gagnon
Right. So now, just as people, you know, could you explain sort of who these two main characters of the series are for? You know, the audience that might have no clue really who these guys are. Like, how do they come into the scene and how do they sort of gain community?
- [14:52]
Darcy Weir
Yeah, I'll. I'll take David Wilcock to begin with. So David was the first one to become prominent in the UFO New Age community. He started, started off making these predictions at conferences and stuff that, let's say he predicted in 2012 that we were all going to become like completely ascended. We're going to be able to spontaneously be able to fly, telepathic thoughts, like sounds sick. It was like we were stepping into this Age of Enlightenment type prediction.
- [15:31]
Mark Gagnon
And when did he make this prediction?
- [15:32]
Darcy Weir
2009 or 2000. That was that conference.
- [15:35]
Jordan
He used to have a blog called Divine Cosmos that got hundreds of thousands or millions of readers. And this was before social media age, kind of back in 2011, 2012. I remember reading David's blog back in 2012, and he was predicting mass arrest of the Deep State. It's coming next week, it's gonna come this summer in 2012. Mass arrest of the Deep State and all this sort of stuff. So David got a lot of play, a lot of engagement from his blog. And then Sometime about late 2014, early 2015, he brought out one of his insiders that he had never named before, his secret space program insiders, which was Corey Goode.
- [16:10]
Darcy Weir
Yeah. But before Corey Goode entered the scene, just to give a bit more flavor of who the prediction guy was, he was very good at speaking on, like, esoteric knowledge, like metaphysical theories.
- [16:25]
Jordan
He was on Ancient Aliens a few times.
- [16:27]
Darcy Weir
He was on Ancient Aliens. He got his start there. But Gaia tv, which is this like New Agey yoga.
- [16:35]
Jordan
It's like a new age Netflix.
- [16:37]
Darcy Weir
Yeah. They started a show with him called Disclosure, and he would just wax philosophically about, you know, alternate energy devices and metaphysical quantum realities and all this wild stuff. And he had basically run out of things to say on that show. This is what Jay Widener, you might have seen him in the series. This was the former head of production over at Gaia tv. Jay was really integral to forming these TV shows. And Forming the character of David Wilcock and pushing his story further. And then later on, Corey Goode. And David basically was running out of stuff. He wanted to make more money. The trick with that entertainment network was that all of the show hosts made the same amount of money, even if you were making the company insanely popular through your show, which I think David was at the time. So he had that upper hand, like, help me or I'm going to walk type thing. And Jay said, I can't pay you more because if the other hosts find out, will be in trouble here, but why don't you do a second show? And that's when he came up with the idea. This guy that Corey Goode, who wasn't really big in the scene yet, had started talking on a chat forum called kind of like the 4chan of conspiracy theories. Before 4chan, it's called Project Avalon.
- [18:24]
Mark Gagnon
Okay.
- [18:24]
Darcy Weir
And that was born out of another show called Project Camel, another chat forum called Project Camelot run by Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan. And on that, you know, this is going back to how Corey was mining all of these conspiracy theories and making a mega character out of himself from different conspiracy theories that he saw were getting all of the chats on the different forums.
- [18:57]
Mark Gagnon
Oh, that's fascinating. Again, I look at this again, like, I'm less concerned with these specific, you know, like, actors necessarily. Like, I have no personal agenda against any of these. These folks you're mentioning. But looking at this, looking at this as the business of conspiracies and the business of ufology is fascinating. So you have this guy that's wanting to make money, he's putting out this message, gets a channel to making a ton of money, and then now is looking for more stuff to disseminate, has this message board where he's able to basically, like, grassroots all of these conspiracies altogether. And then by looking literally at the metrics of what things are working well in like this little focus group, he can kind of take more or less like, oh, I'll take this one, I'll take this one. Maybe I can marry these things kind of together through this narrative.
- [19:43]
Darcy Weir
So that's what Corey did.
- [19:44]
Mark Gagnon
And then make a show.
- [19:45]
Darcy Weir
So Corey, he saw the opportunity to make a character that married secret space program lore, which was really popular at the time, and underground bases and the Galactic Federation and lizard people that were at war with in space and fighting.
- [20:09]
Jordan
The deep state, too.
- [20:10]
Darcy Weir
Fighting.
- [20:10]
Jordan
That was a big.
- [20:11]
Darcy Weir
That was your attraction, right?
- [20:13]
Jordan
Yeah, because Q started posting in October 2017. And then Corey kind of gravitated onto that. And. Okay, you know, one. A whole. One of David's whole narratives is he's getting briefings from the alliance, briefings on how the alliance, whatever that vague term means, is taking down the deep state. So they kind of jumped onto that idea and then ran with that with a lot of their narratives.
- [20:37]
Mark Gagnon
So there's a political component as well that ties in because looking at like the general umbrella of conspiracy world, like you have this UFO component that people really like and that's obviously connected to a consciousness component, that's connected to a meditation component, that's connected to a religion component. And then why is all of this being suppressed? Then you tie in a political component and now you have this whole marriage that creates like a fabric of sort of like conspiratorial belief systems. Yeah, I see. And then if you wrap that up into a nice narrative with good production, now you have a business. Interesting.
- [21:10]
Darcy Weir
And Gaia facilitated all that. So Gaia at the time was going through the peak of its popularity. They were. They had like millions of subscribers per year.
- [21:20]
Mark Gagnon
And what year is that roughly? That it's peaking?
- [21:22]
Darcy Weir
2017. 2018 or something about that.
- [21:25]
Jordan
Yeah. 17.
- [21:26]
Darcy Weir
Yeah.
- [21:26]
Mark Gagnon
Wow.
- [21:27]
Darcy Weir
Their stock rose from like, I don't know, five bucks or something to like 36 or so. I can't remember like the exact metrics there. But it was all around the time that these guys created this new show where David Wilcock would sit in one chair, big comfy looking leather chair. Corey Goode would sit on the other side, opposed to him, you know, and you're asking all these questions. I'm a documentary filmmaker. When I sit down with the subject, I'm asking questions like, what's your background? Where did you go to school? How did you get into this? This is how they start off conversation on Gaia TV's Cosmic Disclosure. So you're a secret space astronaut who had battles with aliens and in space. Tell me about that.
- [22:22]
Mark Gagnon
Right? Yeah. Let's not get in the weeds, Right. Like, why would we bog down this, you know, chat with all too many facts. Yeah, let's just. Yeah.
- [22:32]
Darcy Weir
So that propelled them to this stardom they'd. I don't even think they were ready for.
- [22:40]
Mark Gagnon
I mean, it obviously worked, right? Like their strategy of not being, you know, burdened by the truth or, you know, some type of, you know, credulous fact checking. Let's just jump into the story, you know, let's get right into it. It's probably going to be a more entertaining program. I can imagine.
- [22:53]
Darcy Weir
Yeah. For the people that are into this, they're like, dude, just cut through all of the critical or skeptical questioning and give me the burger. You know, I just want to be. Just throw me right into the rings.
- [23:07]
Mark Gagnon
Of which if you're on the network, you're already bought it. And if you're listening to the network, if you're subscribed to it, like, you're already bought in. Right? Like, what's the old quote like, for those that don't believe, no proof is necessary or for those that don't believe, no proof is enough. And for those that do believe, no proof is necessary. Right, so no proof is necessary. Let's just get into it. Exactly. Now for either two of these, these guys that we're talking about, did they have credentials prior to like working in aerospace, working in negative Ghost Rider? No. Nothing? No. Like, like, because obviously there's, there's people now that exist in the space that have credibility through space programs and, you know, military and things like that. They didn't necessarily have.
- [23:44]
Darcy Weir
Hell no. And that was one of the, like, if you watch the documentary series, like Jay Widener was getting all these as the head of production for this network before these guys blew up and really started taking the world by storm with this show Cosmic Disclosure, which Billy Carson actually got his start on and I'll tell you about that later. Essentially, Jay was platforming Noam Chomsky, you know, like real philosophical and sociological thinkers, like Rupert Sheldrake, you know, like parapsychology thinker, who's done actual clinical testing of esp, extrasensory perception and stuff like that. So Jay was down a totally different track. And then this became the hot topic. And he was like, what the hell am I doing with my life? Because you can't verify any of the claims these guys are making. And one of the craziest parts of their story, these guys, the narrative they were fashioning was, yes, we went to space and we fought with Reptilians and we carried out missions around the Cooper Belts in the solar cess system and so on.
- [25:08]
Jordan
Have we even mentioned 20 and back yet?
- [25:10]
Darcy Weir
That's what I'm getting to.
- [25:11]
Jordan
Okay, sorry, spoiled a spoiler fun.
- [25:14]
Darcy Weir
There is 20 and back. And you can mention what 20 and.
- [25:16]
Jordan
Back is basically this idea. And it's not just Corey, there's a lot of others that have kind of come out and sort of data mined Corey. But it's this idea that they go out on this secret space program mission for 20 years out in space and they are age regressed, so they do a 20 year mission, then age regressed to the same age and look to when they left. And it's just a convenient way where they can say, this is why I look the same now. But I promise you, I've done 20 years out in space, I did a 20 and back mission and now I'm here in the same. It's, yeah, I see the look. You look like, what the hell?
- [25:53]
Mark Gagnon
But they're saying this as, as it is a thing that happened. Not like, oh, this, you know, was this unexplainable? Like there's, they're touting, they say, like.
- [26:02]
Jordan
I was in a secret military black project and I was age regressed after doing this 20 and back mission. And I'm a whistleblower coming forward and right.
- [26:10]
Darcy Weir
To talk about this reality.
- [26:12]
Jordan
See, that's the face people should have when they hear this stuff, but sometimes they don't.
- [26:16]
Mark Gagnon
For the record, up until this point in the saga, I don't really take any major issue with really what's going on. Right. Like, I find a lot of, you know, conspiratorial thinking. I find it very fun. Right. Like, I enjoy hearing about it, especially like when people have personal experiences. I'm fascinated. I would love to know, like, oh, you spoke to an entity, you got abducted, like, tell me about it, like, what happened to you. And I on a personal level am trying to sort of discern, like, you know, are you a little crazy? Are you, you know, did something happen to you that maybe is, you know, psychologically being turned into a different event that now you're misremembering or having some type of false memory or maybe is there a semblance of truth where something truly strange and unexplainable happened? And you know, that's also miraculous, right? Like, that's awesome.
- [27:00]
Jordan
See what you're doing though, you're coming at it with an investigative mindset. You genuinely want to know the truth. And what a lot of these influencers are doing these days is not necessarily the investigation standpoint. But they're making, they're making their stories for entertainment and there's a lot of people following them. They think they want the truth, they think they want investigation, but really they just want to be entertained or they want their fears about the world. They want this hopium. They want, you know, they want their fears about the world diminished from these narratives they're hearing. And I don't know if they really care if it's true or not. They're just, they're so scared about the way the world's going. So they want this false hope. They don't think it's false hope, but there's this false hope getting injected in their head. And these are the kinds of influencers that are perfect for that.
- [27:47]
Mark Gagnon
Right. So like up until this point though, I hear this and I'm like, look, if people want to get entertained, like, you know, I'll watch Ancient Aliens. And I'm like, you know, I don't know if really any or all of this is true, but they're kind of telling me a fun story and so I'll sit on my couch and watch it. Right. Like, I have no real issue with that up until this point. So I'm curious, like, does this, this work that they're doing and sort of the people that they're kind of aggregating around them, does it turn a little bit more sinister and get a little bit more cult like?
- [28:15]
Darcy Weir
Yeah.
- [28:16]
Jordan
So especially when money's involved.
- [28:19]
Darcy Weir
Yeah. So what happens is they grow in popularity, they're selling out, you know, conferences at Contact in the desert and all of these UFO related speaking engagements. They make the two documentaries after they leave Gaia. And so they leave GAIA in 2018.
- [28:46]
Jordan
Can I take it from here? They left Gaia in 2018, of course, leaving Gaia. Gaia funding. That money's going to dry up. What are they going to do to pay bills now? So then they start getting into let's sell courses. Price of the course was $333 for an ascension course. Hey fans, by this course you're gonna learn how to ascend and be more spiritual or learn about my testimony that they've already been telling for $333. Or buy this documentary for I don't remember how much it sold for.
- [29:18]
Darcy Weir
20 bucks.
- [29:18]
Jordan
20 bucks, something like that. Okay, you buy this documentary. But a big issue was that a lot of people working on that documentary weren't getting paid others as well. So it was not getting paid at all. Yeah, I got paid for about two months and then just went after that. So I would venture to guess there's probably about 25 to $30,000 I got dicked out of over the past probably four years in royalties from doing the Above Majestic film and Cosmic Secret as well. And because I have a production credit on Above Majestic and from what I was told, I got basically pushed out of having a credit on Cosmic Secret.
- [30:03]
Darcy Weir
Which at this point used your footage.
- [30:06]
Jordan
Yeah, at this point I'm like, thank God I didn't have a credit on that. If I could Totally do Above Majestic or Redo Above Majestic. I would. But just take Corey out of it and it'd be a pretty decent film.
- [30:16]
Mark Gagnon
But.
- [30:18]
Jordan
So there was a lot of business shenanigans, selling courses for absurd amounts of money. They really aren't worth that absurd amount of money. And the business happenings with the film projects behind the scenes as well, the. The power plays going on. Because you mentioned Leon earlier. So Leon was basically like David and Corey's business partner at the time. 2019, 2020 time frame.
- [30:44]
Darcy Weir
He was kind of like a door to Hollywood because he came from a Hollywood background as like an actor, was connected to Antoine Fuqua and like all the. The African American Hollywood community.
- [30:58]
Jordan
Leon. Yeah, Leon was good friends with Michael Jackson and Muhammad Ali and he had been in the. He started as a radio DJ in Ohio and moved out to LA in the 70s. And he was in a movie called Penitentiary back in the 70s. And he had made a name for himself in acting. And then he kind of got out of acting and became more of like a minister. He got into ministry. So he kind of became like a spiritual helper for a lot of people in Hollywood and especially black actors and black names. So Leon was interested in this stuff and hopped onto some of the projects to be like a business manager. And I think David and Corey saw, like you said Leon was their access to Hollywood, helped them distribute things, help them get bigger, make bigger projects. Anyway, at the beginning of 2020, Leon was handling the disbursements of funds from these film projects and some other things and not exactly sure what went down, but there was some disagreement between Leon and other business partners and then Corey and David. And in about April 2020, Corey worked with the distribution company to set up a separate bank account to put the royalties from the documentary films into. When that happened, a bunch of people stopped getting paid, including myself and I think some others.
- [32:29]
Mark Gagnon
So now how much money are we talking, like up up until this point with these guys? Because I think a lot of people hear this and they're like, yeah, you do these. Some conferences you do like a little show on a random network like you're making what, you know, they made seven.
- [32:41]
Jordan
Figures from those $333 courses. I mean, they made upwards of a million plus dollars big following. Just from the course? Yeah.
- [32:48]
Mark Gagnon
Oh, just from the course.
- [32:49]
Jordan
Just from the course. And then the films, you know, my cut was 15%. I think the film made million plus dollars too, you know, and. And I gave the number earlier of what I think I'm owed since 2020. And that's kind of gone with the wind at this point. Sure.
- [33:08]
Mark Gagnon
So people are listening, they go, oh, wow. So you can just go on a forum or a message board, aggregate a bunch of conspiracies tied into a narrative, spouted off potentially millions of dollars.
- [33:17]
Jordan
If you're out of a job, just call yourself a secret space program whistleblower and you can probably make some money for yourself.
- [33:23]
Mark Gagnon
Now with this specific story, the secret space program story, was there any thread? Because typically you look at conspiracies and you know, there's the narrative component, which is, you know, sometimes erroneous or, you know, difficult to prove. But then there are like, they're built on these foundational little elements where it might be, you know, a leaked document or it might be a piece of video footage. So for the secret space program story specifically, what thread was there that was tying everyone in where they go, this could be true?
- [33:50]
Darcy Weir
There was.
- [33:50]
Jordan
Well, in December 2017, of course, we had the New York Times with their articles and their black and white videos that kind of started mainstreaming the UFO issue, which I do want to get into kind of discussion of general UFO stuff. But that kind of helped bolster or give credibility to Corey and David, especially in their followers eyes. Oh, UFOs are going mainstream now. Look at it in the New York Times. Look at these government reports coming out. So that was a big catalyst. Big catalyst, yeah, for sure, right there. And kind of perfect timing. New York Times story coming out in December 2017, right when they were getting big on Gaia and then they left. Gaia2018ish. But still, I mean, the whole mainstreaming of UFOs, UAPs, whatever you want to call them, still going on to this day. And then we've had other quote unquote whistleblowers come out as well. And what specifically, Corey. But what they would do is use the testimony coming out in the mainstream and sort of tell their followers, look, it's confirming me and my testimony. And that would help sort of imbue that validity or that validity.
- [35:02]
Mark Gagnon
It's a clever fallacy. Like they called this crazy and now it's true. So if they're calling me crazy, it will also be true.
- [35:09]
Darcy Weir
Yeah.
- [35:10]
Mark Gagnon
And it's like, well, let's not how that works.
- [35:12]
Darcy Weir
And something you'll see that we kind of like document in the series is the credibility of these insiders. So something David did first and then Corey copied was using insiders, people that were part of knowing an actual truth of the black budget program or conspiracy Technology, truth or secret space, all that.
- [35:43]
Mark Gagnon
This is their appeal to authority, right?
- [35:46]
Darcy Weir
So the first guy to come on the scene was this guy named Pete Peterson. He's in his 70s. He kind of seemed a bit on the spectrum. Like, once you got him talking, he would just talk, talk, talk, ramble on into all these random things.
- [36:08]
Jordan
And didn't he claim to be Ronald Reagan's, like, top black project scientist or something?
- [36:15]
Darcy Weir
He claimed to have started Cyberdyne, which was at the time a mythical technology company that came from the movie Terminator. Okay, okay. That should have been your very first, like, red flag to the community. But. But they're like, oh, my God, Cyberdyne's real. Pete Peterson created it.
- [36:38]
Mark Gagnon
Right? And look, he has military credentials. He did work on this thing back in the 40s.
- [36:43]
Darcy Weir
So I don't even know if he had military credentials. He was just found at a conspiracy conference that had to do with UFOs and stuff. And because he was a talker and he touched on all of these conspiracy ideas when he would ramble, David Wilcock loved him and brought him on to Gaia to become an insider. And if you watch the series, you'll find out from Jay. He was like, this guy was senile. Like, he said they would film for eight hours in a day and come away with only 20 minutes of footage that was usable towards the content they were trying to produce.
- [37:26]
Mark Gagnon
I see.
- [37:27]
Darcy Weir
Because this guy would start off talking about one thing and end up so lost in the woods in the conversation that they had to constantly cut him off. Be like, pete, we're talking about secret space program, not strawberry cakes. You know what I mean? And he'd be like, oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. Right?
- [37:47]
Mark Gagnon
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- [39:54]
Darcy Weir
That was their first insider and the second insider was in his 90s. His name was William Tompkins and he actually did have a Navy background. He was a model maker and like made Navy models of like ships and stuff. Like you know, that's cool and all. He was a designer to some for in some respects. But they got him, they turned him into an insider and had him talking about 20 and back and had him rambling on about how the Reptilians gave us craft and we reverse engineered or were flying those craft in a secret space program with the Nazis and all of this, you know, the Nazi thing always comes up and that's a really dangerous thing because A, not cool.
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Jordan
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Mark Gagnon
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Jordan
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- [41:30]
Mark Gagnon
Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this.
- [41:33]
Darcy Weir
But anyone can get the same Premium.
- [41:35]
Jordan
Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities.
- [41:40]
Mark Gagnon
So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do@mintmobile.com.
- [41:48]
Jordan
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- [41:58]
Darcy Weir
See full terms@mintmobile.com yes, the Nazis, some prevalent scientists came over to the United States Post World War II in, you know, Project Paperclip, which was to enrich and further develop different aspects of the American military, the space program. You know, you had Werner von Braun, who created the V2 rocket system for the Nazis. And then when he came over, he started NASA, basically off onto the moon missions. Right? Starting with project with Mercury, Gemini, the Bridge to the Moon, and then finally the Apollo space program. That would not have happened without this rocket scientist. He was, he was also the guy that literally inspired Elon Musk.
- [42:57]
Mark Gagnon
Right.
- [42:57]
Darcy Weir
His family. Yeah, you can track that, right?
- [43:00]
Mark Gagnon
Project Mars and having the Elon quote, unquote.
- [43:03]
Darcy Weir
Yes. Yeah, like that figure in that story. So there's truth to Nazi scientists coming over here. If you look at testimony from Werner von Braun, he denounced all of that. He was like, I didn't want to be a Nazi. I had to, you know, it was like I was German, I had to serve.
- [43:29]
Mark Gagnon
Right. Which is, you know, a convenient cover. Sure. But also, maybe it's the truth, but at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter because the United States needs to go to the moon and we also need, you know, military propulsion tech. And this guy is on the cutting edge of it. So who gives a shit what he did? And that's obviously been done throughout history. Like it happened in Japan in certain capacities where there's immunity given to people there for, you know, access to their science. So, yeah, it happens.
- [43:52]
Darcy Weir
Yeah. But what I'm saying is in this community, in the UFO community that sometimes gets kind of glorified and there's almost this praising secretly of Nazism because, oh, they were the smartest and they knew all the occult stuff and they brought it here and helped us you know, become the great nation. No, they lost the war, okay? And the Americans are the empire that absorbed them, not the other way around. You know, and people lose sight of that in the conspiracy.
- [44:29]
Jordan
Plus you look at MK Ultra and the way that mainstream media propaganda operates these days, it's very Goebbels esque. And I mean, the Nazis came here, their ideologies came here, but they're not good. And a lot of the ways that the establishment or deep state structure in America operates these days is very Nazi esque with the mass mind control, trauma based mind control and everything going on.
- [44:52]
Mark Gagnon
So people tie that in where they hear like, oh, the Nazis were interested in occultism. And the Nazis developed the best space program. And that's proof that they had no space program or I guess propulsion programs.
- [45:05]
Darcy Weir
And things like that liquid rock rocket system.
- [45:07]
Mark Gagnon
And so people can look at that and say, oh, they brought these guys over, they were the ones that developed our space program. So that's proof that the Nazis are right. And then that's further proof that they knew things that we didn't know. And that's further proof that they were on the right track. And we should return to that.
- [45:21]
Darcy Weir
So William Tompkins, back to that insider, was kind of saying like the Nazis were secretly running everything behind the scenes with the Reptilians, the Reptilian overlords, and they built bases in Antarctica. To my knowledge, Antarctica is incredibly hard to get to, to fuel and supply to this day. There is no Nazi base there. Like there's research expeditions and stuff that still go on there and is more built up now. But Post World War II, no, like that's garbage, conspiracy stuff. But there are people that have made careers and these guys were making a career on telling that story as if it was fact. And they use William Tompkins to proliferate those ideas in the community because he came from some kind of Navy background, working for McDonnell Douglas, which was one of these military contractors that everybody thinks they got UFO tech and all this stuff.
- [46:36]
Mark Gagnon
Interesting. So now a lawsuit then follows shortly thereafter against Corey.
- [46:41]
Darcy Weir
So he was talking about 2020.
- [46:45]
Jordan
That's the time that I had enough of their stuff about April, March, April 2020. And I'm like, I gotta run as far away from these guys as I can.
- [46:54]
Mark Gagnon
So if you're being fully honest, at the time, was that separation due to the financial component or to the ideological component?
- [47:03]
Jordan
Ideological, because at this time, like I said, I got kicked off of pretty much everything right before the 2020 election. I had to migrate to other platforms like Rumble and Telegram and everything. Thankfully Elon gave me my Twitter account back, but a lot of those platforms are gone. But also at this time frame, not just in the UFO movement, but also in the sort of MAGA slash Q movement, what are we going to call that? There was a ton of just conspiracy clickbait garbage coming out from whether that was planted disinformation assets or it was just grifters, opportunists looking for money. Probably a little bit of both in my opinion. Same as UFO community. But ideologically I just saw, I saw these guys, I think that's about when they came out with their $333 course. I remember because that was the start of COVID too. And of course we're locked down, we're not going out, we're all starting to do live streams on the Internet around Covid. And I remember David going onto his YouTube channel and doing this like three hour long live stream. And the title of the livestream, it's still up on his channel I think. WikiLeaks drops new files, huge bombshell. And I'm watching this thing. WikiLeaks didn't drop anything new. All it was was an index file. It goes around social media every like three or four months. This old index file of. It's just all of WikiLeaks drops in like an index page, goes around social media every couple months. People think it's new. Oh my God, we gotta dig into this. It's not new. Takes 30 seconds to debunk that and do a little bit of research. Oh, it's no, it's not new. Drops. But he did a three hour long live stream, titling it. Oh my God, huge new revelations from WikiLeaks or something like that. Claims this index file is a big new revelation and proceeds to shill his $333 course throughout the whole livestream. And I'm sitting there thinking to myself, it took me, you know, 30, 60 seconds to realize that this is not new. And he, you know, three hour long live stream, $333 course. So I'm just like, ah, I can't. So it was mainly ideological, just with all the. Plus he talked about the insider thing. I've got a story. Back in 2018, I was invited by Cory and David to meet two of their insiders. I flew out to Buffalo, New York. We took a drive to somewhere in Pennsylvania, I don't know, but I spent two or three days with these two supposed insiders of Corey and David's and Corey was there Too. A couple other people were there, too. They weren't freaking. The only thing they might have been inside was Cory and David's head. So they were preppers, right? They were pretty much preppers, yeah.
- [49:47]
Darcy Weir
Doomsday preppers.
- [49:48]
Jordan
And they. And they. They.
- [49:51]
Darcy Weir
They ran a camp to show you how to survive if.
- [49:54]
Jordan
Yeah.
- [49:54]
Darcy Weir
And at first, you know, the zombies came or something.
- [49:57]
Jordan
There were two people. It was a man and a woman at first. The guy showed us this binder of his military intelligence accolades. And he was legit, like military intel. But was.
- [50:07]
Darcy Weir
He.
- [50:09]
Jordan
Was. But what they were saying about getting briefings from Trump. They claimed to be writing briefings given to Trump and all this sort of stuff. No. And I was so uncomfortable after that weekend. I had never spoken about it. And another thing that left a bad taste in my mouth, particularly about David Wilcock, is that. So I never. I never spoke publicly about going to meet their insiders because I just wasn't sold on it. A year later, I went to speak at another one of those Contact in the Desert conferences.
- [50:37]
Darcy Weir
And he introduced you as young, dumb, and full of cum.
- [50:42]
Jordan
Yeah, that.
- [50:43]
Mark Gagnon
Was that true?
- [50:43]
Darcy Weir
Yeah, that's so.
- [50:46]
Jordan
I love that this is a separate story, but Contact in the Desert didn't really like how political I got during my talk. And they and Gaia kind of push censored me out of the event. Anyway, I was supposed to be given a panel appearance at Contact in the Desert. They didn't give me a panel appearance. And then David was. Emory Smith was supposed to appear on David's panel, but Emory Smith bailed. He was probably drunk. And so David was stressing he needed somebody to appear on his panel. And he heard that I got shafted by Contact for a panel appearance. So he called me up. He's like, jordan, you want to come be on my panel? Like, okay, I'll come be on your panel. Whatever. So I go to his panel. He starts introducing the people on the panel to the crowd. It was David Wilcox panel. And he gets to me and he's like, jordan, remember when we went to meet those insiders? And I'm like, I didn't want to talk about this. I didn't know he was going to bring that up. And that's when he said the young, dumb, and full of cum thing. And it was just so. It was uncomfortable for me. It was. I mean, frankly, looking back, disrespectful, too. Like, there's 800,000 people in the crowd and saying that kind of shit and bringing up the insider thing and, you know, what am I going to do? Like, how old was, I don't know, 28, 29 year old me? Am I going to be like, fuck you, David, you liar. Right? No, I mean, you had to be on. I had to be politically correct or like respectful. Right, Professional. So I'm just like, yeah, just, you know, but he probably said that because he wanted the validation. He wanted me to validate his story to the crowd, to corroborate it. How many people were there?
- [52:26]
Mark Gagnon
Were these insiders ever publicly disclosed at a later point? No, it's a, I'm curious, like, for guys like that, what is their end game? Right? Like, you know, you have these main guys that are making a ton of money, getting notoriety, everything else that comes with that.
- [52:41]
Darcy Weir
They're hoping that they can sell their survival camp through David and Corey. If, if they end up going like, hey, instead of coming to a conference for $333 this weekend, how about you come to this survival camp with one of our insiders? So it's like a gateway to the business.
- [53:00]
Jordan
Almost like how I feel like David and Corey saw me is, oh, here's this dude getting some subscribers and some views on the Internet we can use, we can leverage him to help promote our stuff. I feel like these two insiders saw Corey and David and they're like, oh, we can bring them in and make them think we're getting briefings and we're connected to white hat government people. I don't know.
- [53:23]
Mark Gagnon
You think they intentionally misled them?
- [53:25]
Jordan
Yes. Oh, so they could create this like survival camp to sell tickets to. They would have David and Corey be the promoters of the survival camp and make it a business. So yeah, I think they actually got.
- [53:37]
Darcy Weir
Inside of there a lot of grifty circle jerking, right?
- [53:40]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, I guess I'm always curious, like, is it, are they believing their own stuff and making money along the way or are they completely lying and then making money along the way? So, and I'm curious which one, like which people are doing which, you know.
- [53:54]
Jordan
So amongst all ufology, this goes for the mainstream stuff we're seeing now. And I kind of divvy it up into two, two different groups, right? You've got the conspiracy clickbait group over here of your 20 and back, secret space program whistleblowers, the like underground social media people like Corey and them that we're talking about. Then you've got the mainstream group that you're seeing on CNN and doing the huge podcasts and you know, getting the media coverage. Now when it comes to both Those groups, I'm highly skeptical of both just for different reasons. I think amongst the more conspiracy crowd you've got people who are delusional and or grifters. So like he said, both. Right. Maybe some disinformation assets planted in there too amongst the mainstream group. Probably a little of all those things as well. And you could have some genuine people amongst those groups as well that don't realize they're kind of getting caught up in a psyop. More like a useful idiot type where, you know, and at one point I was a useful idiot. I was kind of a useful idiot for this group over here, the conspiracy group, because I had believed their stuff but thankfully I kind of woke up and rubbed my eyes and ran as far away from them as I could. But at least for the mainstream crowd, what makes me question that group that we're seeing get all the media interviews and everything now, you know, when it comes to the overarching UFO topic, definitely believe there's intelligent life in the cosmos. You know, just logic. Consider the vastness of space. I do think not all but Most of the UFOs seen in our skies are man made craft. This technology been hidden away for decades, electrogravitic or whatever you want to call it. One big thing I question about the mainstream UFO group is this narrative that's promoted by New York Times or I think I've heard Jeremy Corbell and Lou Elizondo say this before as well. But they're adamant that none of the UFOs in our skies are American made technology. Could be aliens, could be Russia or China. Definitely not man made. I worked in the government, I know that for a fact. Like what?
- [56:04]
Darcy Weir
Well, I think, I think that I disagree.
- [56:08]
Jordan
But.
- [56:08]
Darcy Weir
Well yeah, because I've heard more of what they've said and they're talking about special access programs and reverse engineering programs. So they are alluding to.
- [56:21]
Jordan
But reverse engineered alien craft, right? Yeah, I rarely hear.
- [56:28]
Darcy Weir
But if you make a breakthrough in one of those programs, you're going to build.
- [56:34]
Jordan
I mean you've got Teatowns in Brown back in the day, Victor Schauberger, you've got a lot of humans that worked on electrogravitic stuff. So the way just trying to forecast and theorize how this whole mainstream UFO disclosure stuff could go, right? They could try disclosing the tech and claiming we got it from a crash retrieval or we got it from an alien craft so they can hide the fact that they've had this for 50, 60, 70 years and it was actually humans that Developed it.
- [57:01]
Darcy Weir
Well, T. Townsend Brown posed a theory that was never.
- [57:06]
Mark Gagnon
Okay, yeah, obviously I was curious.
- [57:07]
Darcy Weir
Like an anti gravitic test theory that was never tangibly shown to work and that was 1940s. If you did catch a craft, UFO craft that was non human origin, you have that original theory of how this is working, but you've just gotten a piece of technology that already has it fully working. You know what I mean? So it's like they could abandon just the theory of Tetons and Brown and they can go and actually start trying to reproduce it based off of something they caught.
- [57:52]
Jordan
Oh no, I think I disagree that teat towns and Browns was never proven to. Never proven to work. Yeah, I mean B field brown effect and all that.
- [58:01]
Darcy Weir
Yeah, I mean people talk about the B field brown effect but proved that it actually was testably and verifiably working. No one's been able to do that.
- [58:11]
Jordan
I think some people have. I've seen some videos of people putting. Basically T. Townsend Brown was putting.
- [58:18]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, can we pull this up? Christos? T. Towns and Brown, I've never heard of this.
- [58:21]
Jordan
Pull it up. He was putting high voltage electrostatic charge into metallic discs. Allegedly he was making them levitate and electrogravitics. So T. Townsend Brown allegedly was creating electrogravitic effects or anti gravitic effects through.
- [58:41]
Darcy Weir
High voltage electrostatic field bi field brown effect. If you click that.
- [58:47]
Jordan
And there's different ideas about what happened with his research. One theory is that the United States military classified it.
- [58:59]
Darcy Weir
Yeah.
- [58:59]
Jordan
Which I mean when it comes to the classification of UFO or UAP technologies, there's arguments on both sides. Right. If we have, if zero point energy and electrogravitic pollution is real, well humans should have it. Right. I mean we're still dealing with green New deal scam tech or centralized oil, gas, coal or even nuclear fusion is still centralized. You need a meter, you need wires to transmit that electricity. If we had decentralized zero point energy technologies where you could have a little box that makes electricity from counter rotating magnetic fields or from the ether, that would revolutionize the world. So one argument is that humans should have this tech. But there is also an argument, I mean if bad guys got access to that kind of technology, what kind of scalar death rays could they make or direct energy weapon technology or that. Right. So like Nikola Tesla's research being grabbed by the FBI, Donald Trump's uncle John G. Trump back in the day. There's, you know, there's, there's arguments on both sides. I can see why they would classify some of this stuff and keep it secret. So self interested evil people didn't get their hands on it. But at the same time humanity could revolutionize itself and have so much more wealth and freedom if we had that tech. So.
- [60:28]
Mark Gagnon
Right. No, that's interesting. I mean, I've never heard of this specific one. Obviously I'm familiar with like some of Tesla's work and how revolutionizing, you know, or how revolutionary, you know, that would be if it was implemented into everyday society. But I guess I'm curious with this kind of stuff, you know, whether it's provable or not provable, why would there have to be some type of reverse engineered alien cover story? Right? Like I feel like that's kind of what you were alluding to. Like, oh, they can say they reverse engineer. Why can't they just say like, oh, this is.
- [60:55]
Jordan
I don't dis. Well then this would lead into what kind of evil deep state shadow government forces have been trying to keep this secret for 50, 60, 70 years.
- [61:06]
Darcy Weir
Control the technology.
- [61:07]
Jordan
Control the technology.
- [61:08]
Darcy Weir
You know, operate in the shadows, rape.
- [61:11]
Jordan
Us dry with a Federal Reserve fiat money system and oil, gas, coal and.
- [61:17]
Darcy Weir
The fossil fuel industry, everything that's been.
- [61:20]
Jordan
Going on for the past, like that's.
- [61:21]
Darcy Weir
The energy that can work in the public and, you know, run the economy. But this stuff so just is a. No, no. So this stuff is alien, right? This stuff is UFO tech or whatever that has to be classified.
- [61:37]
Jordan
I'm just, I'm cautious with a lot of these whistleblowers coming in front of Congress with a lot of these mainstream media reports, because if you look up the definition of limited hangout, limited hangout is intelligence community speak where basically they offer up a tiny bit of truth, a tiny piece of truth in order to try to placate the person questioning so they can hide deeper, more sensitive stuff.
- [62:04]
Darcy Weir
Yeah. Tactic used in media relations, perception management, politics and information management. The tactic originated as a technique in the espionage trade.
- [62:15]
Jordan
And especially because it's the New York Times that first popularized this UFO stuff in December 2017. I'm like, Ah, yeah, but it's not.
- [62:22]
Darcy Weir
Like, it's not the New York Times that, that pushed that.
- [62:27]
Jordan
But why did Elizondo and Chris Mellon.
- [62:29]
Mark Gagnon
Run to them of all people?
- [62:31]
Darcy Weir
It's. First of all, Leslie Keane was already fascinated by the UFO phenomenon. She was dating like Bud Hopkins, who was an abduction researcher.
- [62:42]
Jordan
Did John Podesta do a forward to her book of All People?
- [62:47]
Darcy Weir
Yeah, but, and, and John Podesta was read into some of the UFO information during his time Under Barack Obama.
- [62:56]
Jordan
Do you think John Podesta's favorite shape of UFOs are the pizza shaped ones?
- [63:00]
Darcy Weir
Oh, God, don't.
- [63:01]
Jordan
Okay, okay. No, no. We don't want to get censored on YouTube.
- [63:04]
Mark Gagnon
My thing though, with that even like the, the line of thinking like, oh, the New York Times is the ones that popularized it. Like, it. It almost seems that it must be the case, right? Like if New York Times never popularized, if they never did a story on it, then the narrative would be, you know, it's being suppressed. Why is no one talking about it? And then as soon as a major reputable newspaper does talk about it, then the story is, oh, why are they talking about it? It's a fake disclosure.
- [63:29]
Darcy Weir
So as far as I know, New York Times was resistant to that story going out. Leslie Keane and Ralph Blumenthal really pushed it forward and made sure it got released. And since then, the New York Times has actually done pieces that slam, like whistleblower testimony and stuff. Like they've been anti. David Grush, who was the guy that came out, talked about the UAP task force not being read into the special access programs to do with UFO tech. Not all that stuff. Right. So I don't think, I think it's a step too far to say that New York Times is in on some kind of psyop. I think they just published a wild story and it got all the headlines and it started this sort of disclosure process where we're living in this right now, where more and more people are coming from places of military and intelligence backgrounds saying they've been read into stuff they've experienced, UAP related stuff, yada yada yada. Yeah, so that's my perspective.
- [64:46]
Jordan
Oh, no. I've seen enough stuff from the New York Times over the years. And then we have these new, these new, new UFO documentaries coming out, like Age of Disclosure that have James Clapper, Kirsten Gillibrand's in it. And you got Kirsten Gillibrand and her dad's connection to the Nexium cult, which I know you've reported on before. You just got a lot of shady people in, just kind of involved in mainstreaming UFOs. Gillibrand, Clapper, some other people are in that too. Former CIA guys, former government counterintelligence guys. I mean, it's just, it's. I guess I'm. Maybe I'm a little paranoid, Right?
- [65:26]
Darcy Weir
But he's already been used to push.
- [65:30]
Jordan
But in some regard it's better, you know, better to be safe than sorry. But I just See, I see these people, their backgrounds, the other narratives they push and then it just makes me wonder, okay, what's their ultimate goal or agenda with disclosure? Because they're lying about all this other stuff. Why would they be telling the truth about UFOs?
- [65:49]
Darcy Weir
So yeah, I think I've met like Tim Gallaudet for example, former rear admiral for the Navy 2 star that served during the time that the Nimitz event and the Go Fast UAP video was reported. Chief oceanographer for the Navy for seven years. I think he has a credible background and I think he witnessed the COVID up of that footage when it originally was being reported as a safety of flight risk within his team that were running these exercises off the coast of Virginia. There's credibility to the UAP topic if you want to say. Yeah, if you want to, if you want to. Like the thing is, for that exercise, which they would have had to scrap, it takes weeks and weeks of planning. It's risking the lives of pilots that are possibly running into these things. Like Ryan Graves with his case. I think these objects like spheres that are, have a cube floating inside of them and stuff to say that that's like American tech.
- [67:08]
Jordan
And that's why I said earlier I think most UFOs in the sky are man made, but not all for sure. And no doubt there's sure like maybe.
- [67:20]
Darcy Weir
Some are and there's some cover up going on there. But I think that some of the disclosure movement is real and that these people are trying to push us into a new age of consciousness and acceptance of reality that's greater than what we currently are allowed to think in. Right. Like right now religion still kind of runs the planet. And you do see a lot of that religion stuff permeating into the UFO community. A lot of like Jesuit leadership kind of infiltrating the thought process and the UFO phenomenon. And I can get into that. But. And even like Gaia TV is a new agey, like a Christian adjacent, appealing entertainment network. People that were kind of over the good old book and wanted something a.
- [68:31]
Mark Gagnon
Little extra, something they could really interact with, right? Like you can meditate and feel better. Like you can like really like sink your teeth into things like that. Whereas you know, maybe the traditional conventions of church might not have been doing that for people.
- [68:42]
Darcy Weir
Right? And it's almost like its own church and entertainment center for people that want something beyond right. And like a lot of these people, Corey Good is a Christian. David Wilcock, he left that secret space program sort of conversation. Now he's saying he speaks to Archangel Michael and that he's channeling. Archangel Michael's like.
- [69:14]
Jordan
And he's selling predictions, he's selling books for $111 of his Archangel Michael channelings. That's what Wilcox doing now.
- [69:22]
Mark Gagnon
What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because I need to tell you about how you are potentially entitled for some compensation. That's right. You may have been injured without even knowing it. And I think statistically, most Americans have been injured by this. We know that our food is poison. Many of these companies, these massive conglomerates, are pumping food with stabilizers and gums and other processed chemicals that are illegal in most other countries. But for some reason in America, they are fully legal and they are allegedly causing many health problems. That's a very small alleged. I actually just read a book about this ultra processed humans. It's fascinating that the processed chemicals that are going into our foods are terrible for you. I mean, if you were to take a baked cookie and a cookie that's filled with processed preservatives, even if they have the same exact nutritional profile, the one with the preservatives and all the gums and stabilizers and ultra processing chemicals is going to be worse for you by a far, far margin. So if you have been exposed to many of these ultra processed foods, they've been known to be addictive, they've been known to CR to target children, and they can potentially cause chronic diseases such as type 2 diabetes, fatty liver disease, both of which were unheard of 40 years ago, but now affect the lives of thousands of children. It looks like the people over at Morgan and Morgan are fighting for the people once again. That's right. Morgan and Morgan, America's largest law firm. I mean, they have, you know, handled thousands and thousands of cases, recovered billions of dollars for their clients, and now they are targeting the ultra processed food giants of the world. Okay, so if you or your child has been diagnosed with one of these diseases that I mentioned before, you may have legal options. They have helped thousands of families seek justice against these big corporations and they are ready to fight for you as well. So if you were interested, go to for the people.comgagnon. that's right. That is f r the people.comgagnon. if you're interested in potentially hearing more about the way that these companies can be affecting you and your health and the health of your family and how you may be entitled for compensation because of that. Now I do have to disclose. This is a paid advertisement. Now let's get back to the show. Yeah, yeah. We just buttoned up the saga with Cory and David. So they.
- [71:37]
Darcy Weir
Here's. Here's what happened after. We've kind of been all over the map. We're talking about UFOs.
- [71:43]
Jordan
It's a huge topic and we could sit here for days.
- [71:46]
Darcy Weir
Things blow up in 2020 because Corey Goode starts slap suiting everybody that used to work with him on those productions and the guy at Top Brass because he's saying, this secret space program narrative is mine. It's my intellectual property. Gaia, you're not allowed to do cosmic disclosure anymore and promote my story anymore and sell that because I want a cut of that. It's mine. And the tv, the movies, that's all mine. Jordan, you're not getting your shit. And anybody else who is a partner on that, Roger, Richard Ramsur, whoever, he.
- [72:30]
Jordan
Sued Leon, that we mentioned earlier, he sued a couple other business partners. I never got sued. I did get threatened to get sued by Corey and his lawyer, but I never did get sued.
- [72:42]
Darcy Weir
Cease and desists that they were hanging out. They handed it out to people in the UFO community that just said that they were not believers of Corey Good. They would get cease and cease and desist emails, like my friend Richard Dolan, who's a historian in the UFO community. You'll see in that docu series.
- [73:03]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, he's been on the show.
- [73:05]
Darcy Weir
Oh, great. I didn't know that. He confronted Corey Goode at that MUFON conference in 2017.
- [73:12]
Jordan
Oh, yeah, I was there. I remember that.
- [73:14]
Darcy Weir
Right. And the panel was made up of all of these people that are pushing that story.
- [73:19]
Jordan
Dolan was, like, the only one that didn't buy Corey's stuff on that panel. And MUFON put, I don't know, six people up there who were pro Corey gooders.
- [73:27]
Darcy Weir
Right. Like 20 and back and all that stuff. And he checked them in front of the whole audience and was like, there's no verifiable proof. This is like cheap, tawdry storytelling that's a conglomerate of all these conspiracy theories that were already existing. Right. Directly after that conference, he got a cease and desist from Corey's team.
- [73:51]
Mark Gagnon
I see. So he's suing everybody.
- [73:54]
Jordan
You get a lawsuit. You get a lawsuit. Love light and litigation.
- [73:57]
Darcy Weir
It starts with the cease and desist. But it didn't go as far as suing those people. It was the people that were actually selling the story that Corey Goode said.
- [74:06]
Mark Gagnon
That he created and profiting off of this secret space program that he was.
- [74:09]
Darcy Weir
Like, really going after Jay Widener, the former head of production, he got a.
- [74:14]
Mark Gagnon
Lawsuit because were they running other shows around the Secret Space Program narrative?
- [74:19]
Darcy Weir
So after Corey left, Cosmic Disclosure got a few other actors on board. So there was Jason Rice, who said he was a 20 and backer. There's a guy named Tony Rodriguez. Rodriguez. There's another dude named Ismael Perez.
- [74:38]
Jordan
I can't say that clown.
- [74:40]
Mark Gagnon
This is a fascinating thing, though, because you're saying, hey, I was a part of this program that happened, and then other people say, I was also a part of it. And then he says, you weren't a part of it because it's my thing. And they go, well, how is it your thing if it was just a thing you were a part of?
- [74:53]
Darcy Weir
Yeah, exactly.
- [74:54]
Mark Gagnon
So that's interesting.
- [74:56]
Darcy Weir
Exactly. So that's where the communities started, really, you know, storming. And people are like, what? Like, Corey is the one true God. You know, how is this. But now there's all these other gods in the Secret Space Program, and. And so he sued Gaia because they were producing those shows with the new characters. And that lawsuit is pending as of April of this year, 2025. Jay Widener's case with Corey Good. Corey Goode suing him. That got thrown out last year because there was no proof behind the claims. Jay was just the head of production. And when he left the company, he said, I don't believe Corey Good and the production that I helped produce. He was like, I'm critical. I don't. I think he's making it all up. And he got a defamation lawsuit, slap suit stuff, Right? Like, if you don't agree with me, I'm going to threaten you. I'm going to use the legal system to commit warfare against you and terrorize you with it. And he did that to Richard, Roger Richards, Ramseur. That case got thrown out, I think, by his own legal team eventually, because they were just like, we're done.
- [76:15]
Mark Gagnon
And then he eventually gets deposed, though.
- [76:16]
Darcy Weir
He gets deposed. In Leon Isaac Kennedy's case, that case got thrown out, too.
- [76:21]
Mark Gagnon
But the deposition footage, that led to.
- [76:24]
Darcy Weir
The case getting thrown out. So that had to happen. That deposition, which Leon's lawyer recorded, which we show in the series, that's, you know, as a result of that, the case finally got thrown out because the judge that took over all of these cases post Covid, reviewed all of it and was just starting to go like, nope, nope, nope, nope.
- [76:46]
Mark Gagnon
And in the deposition, he basically says, and I don't want to misquote him, but generally speaking, you know, this story was My body didn't physically transcend. I never actually went to space physically, but my mind astrally projected into space. And ultimately, you know. Did this happen to you? And he.
- [77:06]
Jordan
It was my imagination, more or less says it was my imagination.
- [77:08]
Mark Gagnon
It happened in my mind and it is ultimately my intellectual property.
- [77:12]
Darcy Weir
Yeah, it's my. This is my IP Bible. He calls his comic book, which is like a artistic rendition of his whole story with like, you know, reptilian beings and stuff drawn and all that stuff. So that all went down Gaia, you know, Billy Carson, who's now prevalent in the UFO and like New Agey entertainment business, he got his start because Gaia TV was like, we need a new host for Cosmic Disclosure. David's bailed. He was our big guy. Who can we get? Billy Carson comes in and a friend of mine who's a Canadian named Johnny Enoch. And they reshoot a lot of stuff. They take down Corey Goode shows because they're being sued for it, and they replace that with Billy Carson.
- [78:14]
Mark Gagnon
I see.
- [78:15]
Darcy Weir
Yeah.
- [78:15]
Mark Gagnon
Interesting. And now obviously, as we know, Billy Carson's levying lawsuits against Wes Huff, or at least that was a discussion. I don't know if the lawsuits have actually gone through.
- [78:25]
Darcy Weir
So it's what Billy Carson is doing. It mirrors what these other guys have done. Don't disagree with me, don't challenge me publicly or you're going to get a slap suit, a lawsuit that is terrorizing you and costing you a ton of money just for the case of doing that to you. And he's admitted that Post West Huff debate where, you know that live stream.
- [78:54]
Jordan
That Billy Carson took down where he straight up says, you're gonna run out of money, I'm just gonna keep coming at you with lawsuits and lawsuits and.
- [79:01]
Mark Gagnon
Right. Which I, I believe levying frivolous lawsuits is illegal.
- [79:05]
Darcy Weir
Yeah.
- [79:06]
Mark Gagnon
So by disclosing.
- [79:07]
Jordan
Don't admit that in a loss in a live stream, you dumbass.
- [79:10]
Darcy Weir
And the lawyer that represented Corey Good, there should be some problems there for them. I think the bar should look at them because that's what those lawsuits were built to do, to lock up opponents or people that are due money in business that they had done in the, in the past with Adrian Youngblood and Leon. That was the case. And Roger Richards, Ramseur, they had these companies they set up together that were the entertainment companies that were driving the income from conferences, documentaries, you know, these web classes or whatever.
- [79:53]
Jordan
Yeah, webinars.
- [79:54]
Darcy Weir
Webinars. And instead, because they were in a lawsuit where that was all under contention that money could not Go to those people. It just went to Corey.
- [80:05]
Jordan
That was his excuse for four or five years for never paying me my documented royalties was that the funds are tied up in these lawsuits and these accounts. And these accounts need to be audited. It's Leon's fault. They haven't been audited. So I can't pay you out. So. And at this point, I don't give a shit about the money. You know, even if I sued for it or anything, he probably can't pay it or whatever the case. So.
- [80:28]
Mark Gagnon
So I guess in this case, looking at this like a microcosm of how the UFO space can become commodified, what is the lesson? Right?
- [80:37]
Jordan
Like, it's just the whole conspiracy theory space, like not just UFOs, but even so many sub genres. I mean, you've got these opportunists and grifters and disinformation pushers that jumped into Q and they tried to water the shit out of that. You know, they watered that down and just made a mockery of something that's legitimate. If you look at the core, the core information of it, there's something there. But you get these opportunist grifters and disinformation pushers that jump into the UFO movement or they jump into Q or they jump into health, freedom, vaccine, truth, things like that, and they just poison the well. They poison the well with all that.
- [81:18]
Mark Gagnon
So, yeah, I wonder if there's something to be said for like audience capture. And I guess once money really becomes tied in in a very public way, I kind of feel like that's more or less my litmus when it comes to, you know, the credibility of someone's story. That once like a really strong financial incentive comes in. Like, hey, buy my course. Sign up for like this very exclusive expensive club. I wonder if it even happens intentionally or if it's like a subconscious thing, right? Like, I wonder if there's a story of a good faith person that's really interested in these types of stories. They like to sort of break down the truth they're truly seeking, you know, some type of information. You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries. You wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns. McDonald's breakfast comes first.
- [82:15]
Jordan
I can say to my new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, hey, find a keto friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve.
- [82:22]
Mark Gagnon
And it does without me lifting a.
- [82:24]
Jordan
Finger so I can get in more squats anywhere I can. 1, 2, 3.
- [82:30]
Mark Gagnon
Will that be cash or credit?
- [82:32]
Darcy Weir
Credit.
- [82:32]
Jordan
4 Galaxy S25 Ultra, the AI companion.
- [82:36]
Mark Gagnon
That does the heavy lifting.
- [82:38]
Jordan
So you can do you get yours@samsung.com compatible with select apps. Requires Google Gemini account results may vary based on input.
- [82:44]
Mark Gagnon
Check responses for accuracy that they're trying to uncover through, you know, obviously this litany of, you know, declassified documents and things like that that probably have a lot of, you know, threads of truth. And then as a result, they get into the space, they gain a community, they get credibility and then they begin to sell a course, they start to gain a lot of money, they start living a lifestyle and then they have to keep up that lifestyle and keep.
- [83:04]
Jordan
Up that, oh yeah, money is not the root of all evil. It's the love of money that's the root of all evil.
- [83:09]
Mark Gagnon
Exactly. And their greed kind of propels them into this. And then I wonder if they even know that they're lying. You know, like, I wonder if they just go like, I need, like, I'm gonna keep on pushing this and my audience wants this and I veer off in this other way and the audience hates it. So now I have to veer back. And then they just keep on going.
- [83:27]
Darcy Weir
Money tends to constantly, like, become the motivating force for a lot of these characters. You'll keep hearing about their new business opportunities. Like we were talking about Stephen Cambion before, this guy, like off the record, he's a guy that runs a show called Truth Seekers and he's been rolling, really going after David Wilcock recently because post, you know, Gaia Entertainment and all these documentaries and stuff with Corey. He started a company called Stevati Airspace and that company was supposed to be building anti gravitic hover car uap, sort of commercial technology for the investors like Tesla cars, but can hover, you know, on steroids, that type of dream. Right.
- [84:25]
Mark Gagnon
We're taking the blueprints of some of, you know, like a Star wars, like.
- [84:29]
Jordan
One of those Star wars.
- [84:31]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, hovercraft. And I'm sure they're probably looking at old Tesla stuff and, or old, you know, there it is. Yeah, we're going to take these blueprints, we're going to actually make them.
- [84:39]
Darcy Weir
Right.
- [84:40]
Jordan
For like four years, David has been saying we're getting funded next week. We're getting a million billion dollar next week. We're getting some funding coming in and all they've done so far is make little tabletop 3D printed 3D, like plastic models, all of that CGI, right. That's just photoshopped right there. There's actually been nothing.
- [85:01]
Darcy Weir
So there's A guy. So Stephen Cambion's been covering that story and there's a guy who's actually, you should speak to him. He's writing a book on the Stavati Airspace scam right now, proving that all that money is not going into this, it's going into other things. And what is, you know, does Wilcock do? He says he's going to sue. He's going to slap suit Stephen Cambion. So they all kind of follow the same trajectory eventually where they cannot be challenged on the deceptions that they are spreading. And yeah, basically, you know, it starts from this UFO greater truth thing, which there probably is some kind of kernel of truth below all that. I've spoken about this before. A secret space program that's very real. Right. Like, during the whole time that the Apollo space program was going on, the Air Force had their own. It was called the Manned Orbital Laboratory, and it was a small space station where they were conducting espionage projects at the same time that NASA was putting astronauts onto the moon. Okay. So there's kernels of truth in a real space program that's secret.
- [86:32]
Mark Gagnon
I see.
- [86:33]
Jordan
And you gotta wonder where all the unaccounted for money from the Pentagon has gone all those years. Right. I mean, Pentagon was never audited till 2017, Trump's first term. And over the last eight years, they failed every single audit since. So. And there's plenty of stories out there, some in the public domain, and there's a famous scene from the original Independence day in the mid-90s where they go down in Area 51. You don't think they spend $40,000 in a toilet seat, do you? You know, and that there's definitely truth there. There was a story that came out back in 2018 of the Air Force spending $1,300 on coffee cups. And this kind of price gouging or.
- [87:12]
Darcy Weir
10,000 on a hammer.
- [87:13]
Jordan
Yeah. 500 bucks on a nut or a bolt. And this kind of price gouging is just rampant. And actually, you know, we were. You just mentioned USAID earlier. I don't remember if the cameras are rolling it or not, but I'm curious if that kind of Doge investigation, because just today, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth talked about he can't wait till there's audit of the Pentagon. And I'm curious if and when Elon's Doge is going to get over to the Pentagon, start exposing a lot of this price gouging that the Lockheeds and Raytheons and TRWs of the world have done. And maybe that'll end up leading to maybe some kind of UFO esque or black project disclosure. Because where's all that money going? That's the Department of Defense or the US Government is just getting up super upcharged for. Right?
- [88:03]
Darcy Weir
Yeah. I mean it's like a trillion dollar a year budget at this point.
- [88:08]
Jordan
Yeah, 858 billion.
- [88:10]
Darcy Weir
You can do a lot of secret shit with that money.
- [88:12]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, absolutely. And I look at these types of, you know, kind of conspiracies and they seem a little bit more palatable in the sense like the follow the money types. Right. Where it's like, you know, there's bad actors that are funneling money and there's secret programs that are happening for, you know, US Defense, you know, that makes sense. And then there's secret programs happening at every other major country that's developing, you know, weapon systems that they're also doing the same exact thing, I guess, where I maybe have a little bit of a difficult time where I'm really trying to like tie the, you know, my own personal worldview into is assessing the stories of people that have, you know, experienced things or have seen things in the sky and craft and stuff like that.
- [88:51]
Darcy Weir
Or been abducted.
- [88:53]
Mark Gagnon
Right, exactly. Which I've spoken to many people on this show that have, you know, these, you know, stories of getting abducted or speaking with entities and.
- [89:00]
Darcy Weir
And if one of those stories is real, it fractures our whole reality as we know it. And I believe some of those experiencers probably went through some of that. Right?
- [89:10]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah. No, I don't think that they're lying. And that's the part that I find really interesting. Like when it comes to like experiencing things that are, you know, I think most people can get on board with like, yeah, there's a secret, you know, program that was done within the US government to develop technology. I think people.
- [89:26]
Jordan
Boring stuff though. You're like, what is consciousness? What is reality? I want to get into the, the weird stuff. Right.
- [89:32]
Mark Gagnon
That's also a lot, a lot more difficult to really pin down.
- [89:35]
Darcy Weir
Are we alone? Which is like, are we the top of the food chain here?
- [89:40]
Mark Gagnon
Right? So. But the thing that I've found with a lot of people that I've spoken with is that typically their stories of experiencing either happen very, very young, like pre 7 years old, where like they'll have an experience as like a child. And I can look at that with a little bit of skepticism. Right. Because like as you know, again, I go both ways. Or I'm like, you know, children maybe have this.
- [90:01]
Jordan
Sometimes children just tell you the truth. And they don't. They don't have this contorted worldview from society. So sometimes they can say things in a much less filtered, less. Sure, you know.
- [90:14]
Mark Gagnon
Right. But then at the same time, I also wonder, like, I've heard the theory, and again, I don't want to necessarily, you know, tout this or put this on to any of the people who've been on this show, but I've heard the theory that, you know, there's a possibility of misremembering things and that you can kind of reallocate trauma that have happened that has happened to you as a kid and, you know, tie it in with like film and TV and then create a false memory of something that happened as a kid. So I look at some of the childhood stuff and I go, okay. And then many of the other people I've spoken to that have had experiences, they typically have experiences after they already have an affinity or are drawn into the space.
- [90:48]
Darcy Weir
Yeah.
- [90:48]
Mark Gagnon
So they'll be like, I've been researching this heavily. I've been super committed to, you know, ufology and I've read all the books. And then I had this experience, right. I go, that's okay.
- [90:58]
Darcy Weir
Yeah. Can't you kind of say that about Billy Carson?
- [91:03]
Mark Gagnon
So his is interesting because I think he had.
- [91:05]
Darcy Weir
He was on flagrant with you and he was like, God, I remember have.
- [91:12]
Jordan
Against him, bro, calm down.
- [91:13]
Darcy Weir
The gray alien was right there, you know, and it's like this guy started off talking about all these like ancient forbidden history things and now he's talking about aliens and his like contact experience. This was not part of his original story. His original story was like the Emerald Tablets of Thoth, which came from Atlantis. And he was talking about like.
- [91:46]
Jordan
I mean, I just remember the Emerald Tablets thing. Cause he wrote a book about that and was selling it around. And I think I picked it up and read, read a couple pages once. I'm like, this is kind of lame because I've read the Kybalion, which is like a 1905 rendition of the hermetic teachings, hermetic philosophies. And the Kybalion was a really sort of in depth, esoteric, philosophical work. I love that book. And then I read Billy Carson's rendition of Emerald Tablets of Thoth and I'm like, lame.
- [92:17]
Darcy Weir
Like it just. It's once somebody becomes like a human Swiss army knife of conspiracies like the Corey Goods, where they're like, I was in a secret. I was in a secret space program. I've Been in underground bases. I've, you know, been abducted. I've, you know, they've done everything. That's the hot cool story in the UFO community. That's where you have to like use your discernment and be like, what's going on here? Right, right. Like that was not this. It all just seems like it's escalating.
- [92:50]
Mark Gagnon
And, and that somehow all of it is true and it's all connected. Yeah. And that's kind of where I'm like, okay, is all of it is true and the things that aren't true, that's disinformation, which is its own conspiracy and that it's being levied against, you know, my other conspiracy. You know, it just feels like it.
- [93:07]
Jordan
That's all the mirrors. Yeah. I can sometimes, sometimes I think it's designed to be and conspiracy about conspiracies. But you could have. I mean, if we're talking about intelligence community disinformation, they're going to put out conflicting stories out there to confuse the consumer. So you don't know what the hell to think. And that's going to be a hell of an easy way to hide what they want to hide because you're confused. This, this person's contradicting this person. And what do I think? I don't want to think anything. Then you run away and you don't research or you get caught up into some influencer and into their. Because in the whole overarching UFO movement, there's so many little cliques and groups and yeah, it's.
- [93:48]
Darcy Weir
I think you were part of one.
- [93:50]
Jordan
There and there's a lot of different ones and it's just the nature of kind of society itself is where cult like thinking. Cult like thinking is everywhere, whether it's religion, science, Covid, climate change, atheism, all these little people, you know, veganism, carnivore, carnivore people. People who just get sucked into these belief systems, these ideologies. The leaders are influencers of these specific belief systems and then they have the enemies of the counteracting belief systems and it's just society in general.
- [94:23]
Darcy Weir
And they all bring each like most of the time when they're grifting hard, they're bringing each other up and they're going believe him because he's, you know.
- [94:34]
Mark Gagnon
Supporting my thing kind of, and, and believe me because I'm kind of helping his theory.
- [94:38]
Darcy Weir
Right. So you saw that with David Corey Emery Smith was up there. Totally. Like, who is this guy? You know? But he carried on one of the longest he was doing cosmic disclosures, sitting across from people. So you're a secret space soldier. Tell me about that. You know, like, he was the host after he kind of like went the furthest. Dr. Steven Greer, they all keep, like, down the line supporting each other towards the same end. And their audiences kind of murmur together. So here's the other thing. People are getting superhero fatigue in Hollywood. I honestly think this is the next big wave. Like, we. Steven Spielberg's got a film coming out called Disclosure. The biggest documentaries to be performing right now on streaming services are the program by James Fox, Age of Disclosure is going to come out from Dan Farah, who was a producer on Ready Player One for Steven Spielberg, and he also was a producer on the Phenomenon, which is probably the most successful UFO documentary in history. James Fox, again, that subculture now it's become super mainstream. Like, when I first entered this discussion and researching this phenomenon, it was way down here in terms of popularity. Like, I, I would never talk about this in the public with, like, friends I went to high school with or, you know, university friends or co workers. It was like a secret, you know. Now it's public. I'm like, yeah, I think this could be possible. And there's bullshit, too, and yada yada, right? I keep it kind of like, based, so to speak. But there is a ton of opportunity for money in this space now because it's become so mainstream. And, like, there's going to be, mark my words, because I've actually helped work on a theatrical script about an abduction about the Pascagoula incident. There's going to be, like, major theatrical films that are going to be. Have you ever heard of Fire in the Sky?
- [97:20]
Mark Gagnon
Vaguely familiar.
- [97:21]
Darcy Weir
That's the abduction story about Travis Walton.
- [97:24]
Mark Gagnon
Oh, that's right. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
- [97:25]
Darcy Weir
Big like that's done gangbusters in terms of performance on, you know, streaming dvd, VHS back in the day. It's probably the most famous abduction story this is going to become. And I mean, all the streaming services, right.
- [97:46]
Jordan
Don't you have some celebrities getting around Greer too? Like, there was that one.
- [97:51]
Darcy Weir
Yeah. Who? God, which one?
- [97:55]
Jordan
Singer, chick. I don't know. There was.
- [97:58]
Darcy Weir
Oh, Demi Lovato.
- [97:59]
Jordan
That's right.
- [98:01]
Darcy Weir
She had her own show about this stuff. You know.
- [98:07]
Jordan
Jenny McCarthy had Corey Goode and David Wilcock on podcast.
- [98:11]
Darcy Weir
Jenny McCarthy had her own podcast. That propelled those guys into, like, stardom even more.
- [98:16]
Jordan
So celebrities are starting to get into this.
- [98:18]
Mark Gagnon
Tom.
- [98:19]
Darcy Weir
Tom delong is with, like, Jimmy, Jim Semivan and Hal Put off and like, CIA guys and, well, I mean, anyways. And then like, you know, Lou Elizondo was connected to that. So there's, there's kind of major influencers behind different camps of this stuff, but it's only going to grow, right?
- [98:45]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah. And I think I also, I kind of have like an aversion to certainty when it comes to this stuff in any major way. Right. Like, even the people I've spoken to that, you know, the people that I've enjoyed on a personal level and then also, like, really respected their perspectives typically come from a place of like, look, I don't know what to make of this. This is my abduction experience. This is what happened to me. I'm not lying. This is a real thing that I experienced. Whether or not, you know, I went to a different planet or I went to a craft or I just had it in my mind. It's a real thing that happened in my mind or elsewhere. But I don't really know what to make of it. I don't know how it fits into this greater picture. I don't have a thing to sell this humility.
- [99:23]
Jordan
You can tell there's humility there because they're like, oh, this is what happened.
- [99:27]
Mark Gagnon
Speaking of Richard. Or like reading like Jacques Fillet's books. Like, it's just sort of accounting. Like, here's what people have said, make of it what you will. There's not some type of like, you know, greater like political agenda or financial incentive that there's no ascension push.
- [99:41]
Darcy Weir
Like, I'm gonna help you.
- [99:42]
Mark Gagnon
Right?
- [99:43]
Darcy Weir
Like get through the solar flash that's gonna wipe out humanity.
- [99:47]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah. There's no saviorism that goes on with it.
- [99:49]
Darcy Weir
Yeah.
- [99:49]
Mark Gagnon
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- [101:18]
Darcy Weir
So I do believe more of those people and I've worked with Dolan, like with the abduction phenomenon. There's Roger Lear. He was a surgeon that actually took little implants out of supposed abductees that emitted radio frequencies and, you know, had strange properties, like had their own cell and tissue structure that was growing around them to prevent the body from. From rejecting the implant. Like stuff that almost seems non human, you know what I mean? So I take some of that stuff credible.
- [101:59]
Mark Gagnon
What was it, what was his name, this guy?
- [102:00]
Darcy Weir
Roger Lear.
- [102:01]
Mark Gagnon
Can we pull him up? That's interesting. I'd never, I'd never heard that before.
- [102:04]
Darcy Weir
Yeah.
- [102:05]
Mark Gagnon
And when was he doing that?
- [102:07]
Darcy Weir
During the 90s. He actually investigated UFO cases. He, he was investigating Virginia, the one down in Brazil. He actually flew down early on and so he's like the alien implant doctor.
- [102:22]
Mark Gagnon
Interesting. And have these implants ever been tested and stuff? Yeah. Like what, what has that turned up?
- [102:28]
Darcy Weir
I'm pretty sure a bunch of his medical findings and some of the actual pieces that were removed have gone to Stanford scientist Gary Nolan. And Gary Nolan is flex your business.
- [102:47]
Mark Gagnon
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- [102:51]
Jordan
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Mark Gagnon
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- [103:15]
Darcy Weir
Also, scientists that's looked at trace evidence of craft material and tested it and stuff like that, like looked at metal structures and all that stuff. This guy was putting this stuff under microscopes too and saying like, okay, this is intelligently designed. It doesn't look like a piece of shrapnel, you know, that somebody's misidentified or that I'm confusing one of the. Another stranger part of his testimony is that when he was doing surgery on one of these pieces, it was actually evading or moving in the body to get away from being grabbed and taken.
- [104:00]
Mark Gagnon
So interesting.
- [104:01]
Darcy Weir
Yeah, there's. He wrote a book about this stuff.
- [104:04]
Mark Gagnon
You know, and was it ever like accepted by, you know, like the modern medical establishment? Was it ever looked into from like peer reviews, quote unquote or.
- [104:14]
Darcy Weir
No, as far as I know, it was like can, you know, widely rejected. So I think there's something. If any of that is true. What the hell.
- [104:27]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, that's right.
- [104:28]
Darcy Weir
Like that is, you know.
- [104:29]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah. I mean even Grush's testimony, like, right. Like if that, if any component of that, like non human biologics, like you know, archaeological dig sites of, you know, craft and stuff, it's like kind of. It's mind shattering. It's truly crazy. And I guess the other element of like the current status of like the UFO phenomenon, but then also kind of in the greater conspiracy world, but just keeping on the UFO topic that I sometimes struggle with and I feel like culturally people are feeling this way as well, which is like, okay, when are we going to actually get right, like this whole disclosure thing of like, when are we even going to see like a picture or a video?
- [105:07]
Jordan
What does disclosure even mean though? Right? Like first let's define that. Usually it's not defined. And when can we. How can we expect the government to tell us what does the government even know? Because this subject would be so compartmentalized within the government. So what does the government even know? People think of disclosure as being official. President comes out or some official comes out and says all this. But what I mean, I guess what I wonder is why do people expect disclosure to be that?
- [105:39]
Mark Gagnon
Or I guess more so maybe like a. Like a phone, just like documenting something undeniable or something in that regard, you know, like it seems like even with like drones over New Jersey, everyone's like, oh, is there a craft over New Jersey? And then you see the video of it and it's like a blurry kind of orb and you're like, all right, that's not what it's like.
- [105:55]
Darcy Weir
And that could be honestly a plane in the distance. Because when you see the headlights of a plane from a distance, it Looks like a round circle of white light.
- [106:05]
Mark Gagnon
You know, so I think people are kind of waiting or feeling like, you know, throughout this, you know, timeline from, you know, like who is it? Betty and Barney Hill. Right. Like all the way from that first abduction. Okay. There was. We didn't have like video footage or anything. But now that everyone has phones all around the world, why is it still so hard to get some type of concrete, just, you know, a video of something entering into our, into our atmosphere?
- [106:31]
Jordan
What would it look like? That's the question, right? I think maybe it would look like a ball of light.
- [106:35]
Darcy Weir
Yeah. I think if you like are following this properly, there's a few pieces of testimony that point to there being tons of crystal clear footage. Pictures, radar, data, all attached to real UAPs of possibly non earthly origin entering our atmosphere, flying in, you know, CIS lunar space and you know, around our planet, all that type of thing. And one of the major things from the past UAP congressional hearing was Michael Shellenberger's and Jeremy Corbell. Jeremy Corbell was actually the independent journalist that brought the immaculate Constellation Paper report to Michael Shellenberger, the journalist who broke the story. And that supposedly is a satellite system and a ground based tracking system, dishes and stuff like that. That is very advanced, you know, 4K footage, let's say, that has been tracking all kinds of objects. Its broader capabilities is probably usually meant for keeping track of our adversaries. Technology, maybe a nuclear launch, that type of thing. That's where they would really be initially interested. But it's also very great at capturing anomalous objects. And so with that, apparently they have captured all kinds of data that's not released to the public, that is classified.
- [108:17]
Mark Gagnon
My buddy Jay was describing this. Jay King. I don't know if you're familiar with him.
- [108:20]
Darcy Weir
Yeah, Jay Christopher King.
- [108:22]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, nice guy.
- [108:23]
Darcy Weir
Also an experiencer.
- [108:24]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, absolutely. He's been on the show a couple times and yeah, he was describing, in relation to this, there was some type of. I forget exactly. Maybe you can fill in the blanks if you're familiar, but it was a government document that had seen under the water a craft that was like being worked on and that there was like documented footage of it that was never released or something to that effect. Have you heard of this? I got, I got to recall exactly.
- [108:48]
Darcy Weir
I don't know whether you're talking about the Shelburne incident, which happened in 1960 off the coast of Nova Scotia, Canada, or if you're talking about like essentially what the Tic Tac activity was because there's a journalist based out of the UK who apparently was told by, you know, one of these whistleblower dudes that before the Tic Tac was picked up in that UFO video that Mick west and the debunkers and stuff debate back and forth with Merrick and other people that think that that was a real incident, those objects were seen entering and exiting the ocean from possibly a larger UAP emitting craft, essentially. Maybe that's what you're talking about.
- [109:47]
Mark Gagnon
The way he described it was like they had done some type of like submarine op where they saw a craft under the water getting worked on by what they described as like non human life or something to that effect, that they were trying to like fix the craft or something to that effect.
- [110:03]
Darcy Weir
It sounds like Shag harbor, which happened in 1967. There was an object seen crashing in the ocean off the coast of Nova Scotia. That incident was heavily reported by a guy named Chris Stiles, who's also Canadian. That's the waters that this was spotted in. He also uncovered documents from 1960 that was an earlier incident that the Navy and NATO, like US and Canada joint operation, were doing like a mine sweep, sort of not program or test, but like exercise in that area of Shelburne, which is also around Shag Harbor. And they came across, apparently this is all covered in Sweep Clear 5, Kristal's book. They came across an object that was in the ocean on the sandbar there. And non human intelligence, kind of like grays were swimming around the object, trying to fix it underwater out of sight and out of sound. And it just so happens this NATO Navy exercise stumbled across it. When they did the divers and the, you know, ship that was closest to this convoy of ships doing the exercise, they initially they came aboard and they were so startled that in the captain's log you can actually see that they declared DEFCON 1, which is the highest DEFCON you can go to. Am I right?
- [111:55]
Mark Gagnon
Something. Yeah, maybe. I can't recall.
- [111:57]
Jordan
Five to one one's the highest.
- [111:58]
Darcy Weir
Yeah, right. And like we have. I. I put that actually in a documentary that I released like two years ago now, one year ago now. I don't know. It's all a blur called Trans Medium. Talking about these ocean based, like a history of ocean based UAP activity. Right. And Chrystals talks about that DEFCON1 being. And if you look up online DEFCON levels on like Wikipedia, that's never been officially declared as something the United States or NATO has initiated. It's never been that level.
- [112:40]
Mark Gagnon
So and whatever happened with the, with the sort of conclusion of the, the Shag harbor incident, it was sort of like logged to like the military records.
- [112:50]
Darcy Weir
Who were part of that exercise said they saw non human intelligence swimming around a craft. Like, Chris Styles interviewed the divers that were on that exercise and got testimony and the testimony from all the people that actually saw the craft crash into the ocean that night in 1967 and stuff. But it never got officially recognized by the Canadian government or the American government, even though NATO got involved, like trawling that area of the ocean, trying to find survivors and, you know, trying to find debris from the craft and stuff. Like, as far as I know, it just faded into obscurity and was never fully acknowledged. But hundreds of people witnessed it.
- [113:44]
Mark Gagnon
Hmm. Yeah, it's very strange. I mean, it reminds me of Rendlesham Forest incident where, you know, like multiple military personnel see this thing land, someone gets close to it, allegedly touches it, I believe, like downloads this information.
- [113:58]
Jordan
Yeah.
- [113:58]
Darcy Weir
Jim Pedeston the first night touched it. You have Jonathan Burroughs the second night sees a ufo, goes and gets sort of like exposed to radiation or something. And believe it or not, he's come forward. His story is like been covered pretty well. He said that he went to. He had a heart valve issue and he went to declare his medical benefits as a ex Air Force personnel during that time. But when he went to claim his health benefits to cover that surgery, he was not allowed to because the military classified his work all based around that Rendlesroom incident. And believe it or not, the only way it got reinstated was because Hal put off Kit Green, who were involved with to the Stars Academy at the time. They took this to John McCain. Senator John McCain, who's now passed, who advocated on behalf of veterans because he was a Vietnam War veteran himself. He ran that up the flagpole and actually got the attention that was required to get that service record reinstated and declassified. And John Burroughs finally got the coverage for that ailment because of John McCain.
- [115:35]
Mark Gagnon
Wow.
- [115:36]
Darcy Weir
Pretty wild.
- [115:36]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah. Are there any other stories similar to this that are sort of on the record in that same way that you find extremely compelling, that you feel like is not really discussed at length or maybe people aren't as familiar with similar to Shag harbor or Rendlesham?
- [115:52]
Darcy Weir
Well, yeah, I think I just released like actually a docu series on an abduction case called Pascagoula73. And that is such a well documented case at this point. It's covering two Mississippi men that were fishing on a river called Pascagoula October 11, 1973. They said that night a craft came, this object landed or kind of like hovered behind them. They turned around these three beings that are of a description we've never actually heard before. Like we hear about grays, we hear about human looking occupants and stuff like that. But these things were more like robots. Floated down to them, kidnapped them, took them on board, examined them, did for Calvin, who was 19 at the time, he was. Some medical sort of stuff was done to him, blood taken. Apparently they were dropped off after this point and it became a national sensation because J. Allen Hynek, who was actually part of the Project Blue Book Air force investigation into UFOs for two decades, he came the same week and examined the men with James Harder, another professor at a. I think it was Berkeley or one of these universities. And they declared they thought the men were telling the truth. They had physical things. There was pictures taken where they were punctured and stuff where they said they felt like they were kind of sedated during this experience. And yeah, the Air Force eventually got involved, the police force from that area got involved. There were hundreds probably of witnesses in the Mississippi area that experienced this UFO flap right around the same time, nights before. During that night, apparently Sheriff Fred diamond, who planted like a secret tape recorder in their interrogation room, he came out to the newspaper that he saw a UFO two nights before. So something was going on in that area that was very prevalent. I feel like because there's so much testimony based around that case, something had to have happened.
- [118:42]
Mark Gagnon
Fascinating. Yeah. That is bizarre. I've never even. I hadn't heard of it outside of you, you know, kind of putting it on my radar.
- [118:49]
Darcy Weir
It's a different abduction case because of the beings that were witnessed. You know, there's a guy named Michael P. Masters. I don't know if you've ever.
- [118:57]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [118:58]
Darcy Weir
He actually talks about that case as being a strong candidate for like future human sort of interaction. Right. Because these beings almost seem like androids or robots. And then the one female entity that was apparently on board was robotic in nature, but seemed human esque, you know, and so his whole kind of like argument in that case is, well, how do we know it's not us from the future that sent back this craft to examine a couple humans on the timeline, do some tests genetically or whatever, put them back. Okay. Bingo bango, see you later.
- [119:45]
Mark Gagnon
Right. Yeah, yeah. I spoke with Michael on the show about the future human hypothesis. And it's an interesting theory, kind of like as the domestication of humans goes on Right. Of go from these sort of early hominid types. And is it possible that in that progression of the Anthropocene, we end up looking like these types of grays or things like that, with larger heads, encephalized brains, smaller mouths, things like that don't.
- [120:12]
Darcy Weir
Need dicks or pussies anymore?
- [120:15]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, exactly.
- [120:16]
Jordan
We're already there, bro.
- [120:17]
Mark Gagnon
Oh, shit.
- [120:19]
Jordan
Yeah. I don't know if I vibe with the aliens or future humans thing. So, I mean, why would they feel the need to do that if they already have their history or whatever the case? Why would they need to go back in time? Plus the whole idea of time travel. I don't think it's that simple as you're able to go back and fiddle with stuff and go back to your normal time, I mean.
- [120:40]
Mark Gagnon
Well, Michael brings up an interesting point. He says, what is the likelihood that if there were entities, or I shouldn't say entities, rather beings that are evolving independently from us on some other type of, you know, galaxy or some other type of, you know, star system, that they would develop as, you know, bipedal hominids?
- [121:01]
Darcy Weir
Right.
- [121:01]
Mark Gagnon
Like, what is the likelihood that they would evolve in the same way despite being in, you know, potentially could be situations?
- [121:07]
Darcy Weir
Why aren't they spider beings from Sirius B?
- [121:12]
Jordan
It could be a universal archetype found throughout the cosmos. A sort of bipedal sort of star frame with sort of fractal frame. Right. I mean, we have this body that leads to arms, that leads to hands. I mean, it's kind of like a fractal body that we have. So it could be a sort of blueprint, assuming it's the case. But maybe there could be other kinds of. Other kinds of life. We were mentioning earlier about the whole angels, demons thing. You know, this is something I see talked about online and in podcasts and whatnot to the. The idea that extraterrestrials are just interdimensional beings and they're demons or angels or inner. Yeah, interdimensional demons or something like that. And I think that gravely oversimplifies the conversation, because when I look at humans, are we not also interdimensional? Sure, we have a meat suit body, but we also have this consciousness, this, you know, power of thought that can do wonders. So I think all life is in some way interdimensional. Why would. Why would extraterrestrial life be only interdimensional? And also, on the flip side, why would it be only physical? Why not both? Right. Or why would it be only evil and demonic or only angelic? You've got some UFO influencers saying all extraterrestrial life is good. Greer, you've got some saying all is evil. Plenty of. Plenty of Christian adjacent say that. Why not both, right? Humans have all kinds of different agendas, all kinds of different interests. Why would extraterrestrial life not as well? So I think it's. There's many, there's many possibilities, right? It's probably physical, probably also interdimensional. There's probably evil ones, there's probably benevolent ones out there, right? It's my opinion is probably a mix of all of them.
- [123:07]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, yeah. I'm curious, have you ever had some type of anomalous experience? Have you seen or interacted with.
- [123:13]
Jordan
Seen stuff in the sky? But no, no like beings or shadow figures or anything like that.
- [123:20]
Mark Gagnon
And the things you saw in the sky, were they remarkable in any capacity?
- [123:24]
Jordan
Oh, for sure, yeah. I mean I was out in the middle of. Stick in this. Out in the middle of the sticks in Washington State looking up. Definitely not a helicopter. I know aviation lights when I see them. Definitely not a drone. This thing was too high. It was, it was moving like a satellite, which I also know how satellites move. Linear, very slow, same luminosity, but then it stops and then it gets bright for about 5 seconds, 10 seconds, and then it just fades out completely. A couple of those experiences. Actually I had another one a few weeks later, different area of Washington State as well. And I don't think those ones were man made. So I have had. I have seen things in the sky. Maybe I have had an encounter with some sort of, I don't know, inter dimensional being. I had a. I took some mushrooms.
- [124:11]
Darcy Weir
Once and could be a catalyst.
- [124:14]
Jordan
Yeah, I'm very familiar with psilocybin. But I had one bad trip one time and I think. I think I had a seizure doing it, which I wouldn't blame on the mushrooms. I would blame. It was my fault. I was drinking caffeine and Lacazes, other things I was doing. But anyway, I think I had a seizure and I just remember seeing like white when I was out. It was pure white and some kind of angelic being, I guess we could say or something that just like let me know it was all going to be okay. Then I kind of came back to not. But yeah, interesting.
- [124:56]
Mark Gagnon
And Darcy, have you experienced anything in all the time that you've researched and worked on this kind of stuff?
- [125:01]
Darcy Weir
Yeah, I've had weird. I've seen. I've had two UFO experiences. When I was living in Australia. I saw an object Go over top of my head. A buddy and I at the time living together in this area called South Oakley suburb of Melbourne, we were walking for pizza one night and we saw this bright object. We were talking and it came into our periphery right above us and then did a zigzag and went over the horizon like in seconds. And conventional aircraft cannot do that. Like, it was also a uniform bright like orb sort of light the whole time. It wasn't like a meteorite that seemed to sort of like expand in brightness and then fade out because it was burning out in the atmosphere or something? No, like it was really weird. We both looked at each other after that happened. I was like, did you see that? He's like, yeah, okay, let's go. Go get pizza. Like, that was weird. And another time it was actually on a flight when I was like 20, this is way earlier in my life. And I was looking out a passenger airplane window. I think it was flying from like Denver at the time somewhere. It was daylight and I was looking at the window. I was like, man, like just thinking about UFOs. And I looked up instead of directly out and I saw what looked like a metallic cube. And it was close to the plane but like kind of pacing. And I was like, what the. So I reached for this like camera, this pocket cam that I had back then. You know, it was like flip phone shit for me. So it wasn't like, you know, you had a 4K camera in your pocket, but this was like a separate camera device. I was turning it on and looking and the thing just kind of went and just sailed above the fuselage and I couldn't see it anymore. And I was like, am I losing my mind? So I'm turning to the person who was riding middle seat beside me and I'm like, just like. And I was just, is the plane going to go down? Like, I didn't know what the hell was going to happen next or if I had just imagined it. Like those were my UFO experiences. And as far as like some weird thing that I've experienced, like something I can't really explain, that's, you know, possibly non human intelligence or whatever. I don't know what it was. I was lying in my bed. I was in my twenties as much later I had probably was hungover and I had taken like a Tylenol 3 or something. Like, let's just hammer this thing home and not have any feeling. And I was lying there closing my eyes and I started feeling like kind of like this vibration in my head. And I'M like, that's weird. And I was starting to get a little bit freaked out. And then when I opened my eyes, it's pitch dark in my room, or, like, almost pitch dark. I saw, like, what looked like a humanoid figure standing over top of me, looking down on me. And I fl, like, completely flipped out. I did this, like, fight or flight reaction and kicked my feet up where this thing would have been, and it, like, just disappeared. And I, like, was like, what the fuck? Like, is there something in my room here? And there was nothing there, but I distinctly remember that. And all I remember is, like, this sort of vibration thing happening in my head before that happened. And I don't know if I was losing my mind or hallucinating because I was like, you know, a combination of this Tylenol 3 and hangover, whatever. But that was weird because I actually visually saw something, and I don't visually see stuff that's not there ever in my life, so. So, so far, right?
- [129:28]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, it's. I mean, so bizarre. I mean, that would be a pretty strange experience to feel that, like, were you laying in your bed in this thing was at the foot of your bed?
- [129:36]
Darcy Weir
No, it was kind of like, over top of me. Like this, like, looking down right over my.
- [129:42]
Mark Gagnon
On the side of your bed?
- [129:43]
Darcy Weir
Yeah. Yeah. And I was, like, doing almost this, like, pole vaulter, like, kick up.
- [129:49]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah.
- [129:50]
Darcy Weir
You know.
- [129:50]
Mark Gagnon
And how did you feel afterwards? Like, pretty jarred. Like, were you able to fall asleep?
- [129:55]
Darcy Weir
Yeah, I was scared. I was like, what the hell just happened? Am I losing my mind? You know, and had a hard time getting to sleep.
- [130:03]
Mark Gagnon
Strange. Yeah. And so I'm curious, like, given kind of everything we've talked about, like, you know, your own personal experiences, plus this sort of recognition that, like, there are, like, grifters in the space and people that are sort of, like, peddling false information in order to make money and sort of like this cult element that we've discussed, and then also, like, these weird declassified military documents that point to, you know, unexplainable technology and things like that. Do you have some type of, you know, personal theory that kind of ties things together for you just on a, you know, personal level of, like, kind of what to make of this and, you know, how do you explain everything? Basically, we've discussed.
- [130:43]
Darcy Weir
I think that possibly part of the reason we're getting disclosure from a mainstream perspective right now is because our technology is catching up with detection of this stuff in our reality at a greater rate than ever before. One of the things that you can Actually track in all the conversations from Ryan Graves and Lou Elizondo and all these like military people that have been pushing the disclosure thing. Right now, right around the time that all these things were being detected on these missions, they always state the radar and the FLIR technology was upgraded on these F18 fighter craft. So we're getting these detection technologies that are seeing into an unseen world that we can't see with our physical eye more and more. And so the activity is upticking. You know, Arrow, for example, they got stood up the All Domain Anomalous Resolution Office or whatever and they're getting 600 cases and can debunk 300 of them. You know what I mean? Every year they're getting more and more cases. And that's because our systems that are reporting them are becoming more and more sophisticated. And I think as we approach technologically and consciously this singularity where we're going to have AI interfacing with our reality, more and more discerning things that are happening in our reality for us and making us more aware of what's going on around us, we're eventually going to get disclosure that something else is here that can't be hidden anymore. Do you know what I mean? Like, we are going to become so integrated with information and technology eventually that we're going to be aware of the things that are around us that are, that were unseen, that we couldn't classify or understand as well before. That's my theory. That's why I think it's happening now. It's because it's. We're at like this precipice where it's going to be unavail, unavoidable.
- [133:26]
Mark Gagnon
Now does that look like, you know, intelligent non human entities coming from a disparate, you know, star system or it's sort of this like consciousness interplay where maybe these things are sort of interfacing with, you know, our consciousness or all of the above.
- [133:41]
Darcy Weir
I think all of the above, honestly, like when you hear about like Grush talk about, it's a plethora of phenomena, like it's possibly non human intelligence from another star. It's interdimensional beings, it's stuff that's existed here and lived at the bottom of our oceans or something, you know, but is more sophisticated than us, but we're just not aware of it. You know, it could be all of this stuff. But again, as we become more and more integrated with technology and become more and more aware of what's possible in our reality, because we're literally using an enhanced conscious tool. That's why disclosure is happening. Because it's like, okay guys, we're not alone, because there is something here.
- [134:35]
Jordan
I see.
- [134:36]
Mark Gagnon
And yeah, similarly with you, like your own experiences and then additionally being involved in a group that has later been shown to be fallacious and having been used in that capacity, do you approach these things with more skepticism? And how does that sort of affect your general worldview when it comes to, you know, understanding the anomalous in this way?
- [134:59]
Jordan
Some big ass questions there, man, with a lot of ways to answer that. I've got basically two answers, one microcosmic, one macrocosmic. Looking at us as people and then sort of society or the world as a whole, us as humans. I think when it comes to, or what should I say, discovery, disclosure is going to be a lot easier when we look at our belief systems. So we've got so many ingrained belief systems, whether they're religious and scientific and whatever the case, political. It's going to be a much easier time figuring out the truth about our reality because we've got so much to unlearn. We have so many mental programs from decades, centuries, millennia ingrained into our heads of religious and scientific propaganda, dogma, dogma, if you will. And there's so much, I mean, to get to the truth about our reality, there's going to be so much that we unlearn. There's going to be a lot of cognitive dissonance in people's heads. It's going to be uncomfortable for a lot of people having to admit that maybe not only them, but the authority, institutions they look up to don't really know, or we're feeding them mis and disinformation for decades, if not centuries. So, you know, disclosure is going to be a pain in the ass for a lot of people. I think a lot of folks look at it like, oh, it's so exciting, oh my God. But I think at the end of the day, it's going to be a freaking. It's going to be an upheaval. It's going to be just a mass awakening. And it's not for a lot of folks, it's not going to be a happy experience depending on how easy they can change their mind and how easy they can take in new information and discard old beliefs that don't serve them or don't, don't mesh with the new facts they're finding out. Right? Think about these beliefs, these belief systems. People hold them dear. It's an egoic thing. It's a sense of validation. It's a sense of their identity. And at the end of the day people love slapping labels on themselves. I'm this, I'm this ism this. Ist this right. It's, it makes, gives them a sense of self. So got a, it's going to be, it's going to be a doozy for a lot of people is capital D disclosure. If and when we get that societally, I think there's a lot of forces working behind the scenes within the government and the intelligence community for multiple aspects of disclosure. I think there's, it's almost like a shadow war, a shadow civil war within government and military intelligence. You know, I look at the UFO issue Darcy does a lot. He's like, his sole focus is on UFOs so he knows a hell of a lot about this issue and has done a lot of fantastic documentaries on that. My research and investigation over the years has been on a variety of things. So I definitely keep track of what's going on with UFOs and different groups and all that. But I, I do politics, I do health related things, I research a lot of other stuff and I guess from my political researchings it's kind of influenced my beliefs or understandings of UFOs. And I do think within government and military there's various forces or various factions in play. One group probably wants more of a self interested disclosure, half truths and whatnot to serve their own selfish agendas. And I think there's forces behind the scenes trying to push for a more fuller, open disclosure to truly help humanity. So that's the kind of lens that I look at things through. When I see disclosure, especially at the mainstream level, I'm like, okay, which force might be trying to influence this for what agenda? You know, and the Internet, the Internet's revolutionized our world. It's revolutionized everything. And I think the Internet is causing, I guess both, both of those shadow groups. If we're going to use a vague generalization here like good and bad. The bad group saw the Internet come out. Oh my God, look at all these people sharing information now. Oh shit. Now we have to do something because they're starting to ask questions and share research. So we're going to have to come out with some sort of like limited hangout half truth disclosure to cover more stuff up. Good guys go, oh, we can use this Internet to help get more full disclosure out, right? I mean the Internet's a really, if you look at the Internet itself, especially social media, it's a blessing and a curse. You Know, you can use the, you can use the tool of social media to program, ruin your life, get brainwashed, but you can also use it to wake up the world and, you know, share information and podcasts and start businesses and really change your life for the better and help the world. So I think this Internet really changed the game, and now we've got forces kind of using this ability to share information en masse to the world for different agendas with disclosure, which is why I'm hopeful but cautious, cautiously optimistic with that disclosure and things I'm seeing sort of at the mainstream level. And I don't, I don't pay much attention to the grifters and the opportunists anymore. You know, I, I, I worked with a couple of them years ago. I only worked with them for maybe two, two and a half years. I was 26 or 27 when I first started working with Corey and David, and I was about 28, 29 when I ran away from him as fast as I could. And I'm 34 now, so, you know, that was years ago. I don't pay. I, I think exposing general conspiracy clickbait is very important, which is why I decided to do Dark alliance with Darcy. And why devote some of my citizen journalist work to going after just conspiracy clickbait all across the board? You know, it goes viral on social media these days. And I do think there's darpa, AI tech or paid bots that help amplify it.
- [141:10]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah.
- [141:11]
Jordan
To poison the well.
- [141:12]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah. Do you think in this current administration there'll be more steps towards his closure? Like, do you think Trump has a desire to expose those things more than other candidates?
- [141:21]
Jordan
And I don't think it's just Trump. I do think there is a force of people behind the scenes. Right. I mean, we talk about a shadow government of the deep state of evil psychopath people, which is becoming evident that there's a shadow government in that regard. I also think there's a shadow government of good guys who are trying to do the right thing. I mean, people look at CIA or gov, or government general or military intelligence, and they have this like black and white thinking about it. All CIA is bad, all NSA is bad, or whatever the case or diabi, all government's bad.
- [141:57]
Darcy Weir
There's got to be good people.
- [141:58]
Jordan
There's got to be good people behind the scenes there. People who don't want their name and face out to the public, but who are really working behind the scenes to get the truth, to expose corruption, to expose the fraud and abuse, to get the truth out to the people. And I do think there's good guys behind the scenes who are trying to get the truth out about the UFO issue as well. So at the end of the day, I'm. I don't know how we're going to get there, but I do think we will get to some form of disclosure. It might not be like everything we want, or it might blow away our wildest dreams and expectations and we might learn more than we ever thought we were going to, but don't know how we're going to get there. But I do have faith that we will. And I do think there are good people working behind the scenes to make that happen.
- [142:43]
Darcy Weir
I will add, I think why the slice that's in between maybe the real truth and the grifter. The reason why the grifter or the exploitative force is so effective on preying on the UFO community is because there are people who enter this subject, they've experienced something themselves and they're going through some level of ontological shock to do with the subject, and they're vulnerable, right? They're literally like, I need answers. Right? So they go out into the community or to this group that are murmuring together. And the people that are the most convincing, the most charming, the most charismatic and thought provoking are the ones that say, I know the truth, I can deliver you salvation and I can save you and I can give me your money and I will give you the real disclosure. That's why it's so effective, because people, you know, even with Jordan, part of his story is he was coming into the conspiracy space and he was not fully aware. He was younger. He was exploring all these possible theories and ideas and he got, you know, eventually swept up into something that was not credible. But he started from a place of general intrigue and wanting to know more. And a lot of people are entering this in the same place, but they get taken advantage of and they dig their feet in. They dig their heels in on this subject so substantially that they never will admit to themselves that they've been conned. And it takes a really strong person to finally admit that they've been conned. And I think you'll see in the documentary series Dark alliance that, you know, Jay Widener, the former head of production at Gaia that was putting together these conspiracytainment programs, he did not want to believe he was conned. He wanted to believe that these guys were telling the truth. And eventually he gets cancer and he's like, I'm peace. And out of this. And by the way, these guys are full of shit. Then he gets pulled into that lawsuit with Corey Goode for defamation, all that stuff. Even though he was trying to do something good, he was trying to correct the record. Historically, I don't support this. Right. I think there's strength in character there, and there are people that are exploring these ideas, but when they become so enamored and so bought into certain characters in the field, and there's way more of them than Corey Goode and David Wilcock, they will live the rest of their life following those people, and they'll very seldom admit to themselves that they have been conned.
- [146:07]
Mark Gagnon
What's the old Mark Twain quote? It's easier to trick him in than convince him he's been tricked. Yeah, yeah. It's an interesting problem. And we've kind of skirted around the angel and demon thing a little bit. And I'm curious your perspective on that as well. Obviously, growing up very Catholic, anytime I discuss this with my mother, she'll be like, oh, it's obviously demonic. Right. And if I were to explain to her, like, the experience that you had, you know, or even the experience that you had, my mom would be like, oh, yeah, it's obviously, you know, it's obviously the supernatural and the spiritual world. I'm curious, do you. Does, like, your worldview kind of hold any space for that at all, or is that immediately kind of written down?
- [146:43]
Jordan
It's a semantics issue. Right. Good extraterrestrials, angels, demonic, archonic, bad extraterrestrials. Like, at the end of the day, we're all trying to describe the same thing just with different words based upon basically how we grew up, our experiences. So we're using different words to describe the same thing.
- [147:03]
Darcy Weir
It's our own lens.
- [147:04]
Jordan
Yeah, it's our own lens. I think at the end of the day, it just boils down to a semantics issue, but people are arguing over these different word choices and things like that. But, yeah, sure. Aliens, angels, demons.
- [147:15]
Darcy Weir
Yeah, well, I have a certificate that says I am a Catholic.
- [147:26]
Mark Gagnon
You got baptized. Congrats.
- [147:27]
Darcy Weir
I don't practice. I got the slap. But I think it's an old world way of looking at a phenomenon that we didn't understand back then, but we projected this idea in order to understand it back then to a phenomenon still going on today. Right. So it might have been happening all along. And I actually hold, like, a Twitter space every Wednesday night with a web radio called KGRA Radio, and I pipe through the audio from that to their radio station, and Then it becomes a podcast, like a Spotify episode or Spreaker and stuff. And just to like really push that angels and demons conversation. I had a demonologist, this guy, James Bishop, James Long, who has like a TikTok following of 800,000 subscribers and stuff. You should speak to him. But I wanted him to come on because he has studied the Catholic religion and demonology and he's done multiple exorcisms himself. And I wanted to sort of have him check how demons match up with abduction or contactee experiences. Does that mesh up? Can you call Grays, for example, a demon? And he said no. He was like, what a demon's. In the Catholic scripture, what a demon's job is, is to desecrate the human body and to break down faith in Jesus Christ and God. That's what their mission is. And the only vessel that they can invade and desecrate is a human body. So he says possession happens to a human and they destroy the human body. They break down the faith, they try to destroy belief in Jesus and God. Therefore, that's what the whole possession thing is. It's a demon destroying a human and breaking down their will and faith and all that stuff. He says, nowhere in the Scripture, nowhere in the belief system of Catholicism and what demonology describes does it describe use of a UAP or UFO craft. Demons don't need that. They're a spirit that only invades a human vessel to, you know, say a big fu to Christianity. And he's like. And further, by extension, you know, a demon does not need to fly around in a ufo. It doesn't need a physical vessel other than a human body. And it doesn't need a non human body like a gray or a reptilian or a. You know, people talk about these other human looking aliens and stuff like that. Like that is just not. That's not their forte. That's not what they're said to do in scripture. So that was pretty interesting when I had him in that space, because if you go on UFO Twitter or Twitter spaces, many, many, many Christians or Catholics will describe, they'll just say, oh, you know, aliens are demons. But he even as a bishop believes in UFOs, he believes in extraterrestrial life. He even says the Catholic Church has, you know, and the Pope have made a proclamation that if there is non human life, they were also created by God. That, you know, there's a possibility for that and they're just another, you know, version of life that was created in the universe. And so he says, you know, Demonstration. And angels are different things from aliens and angels, for example, they cannot manifest on Earth in the earthly realm. They're only seen at death or in heaven because that is their God has locked them to those realms. Do you know what I mean? So anything that's manifesting in our realm that's not an. It can't be an angel. It would have to be, you know, demonic or something like that.
- [152:26]
Mark Gagnon
Interesting. Now, if. I guess just to kind of.
- [152:29]
Darcy Weir
Not that I. And. And, you know, I just said all that, and I don't even believe it.
- [152:33]
Mark Gagnon
Right, right, right.
- [152:34]
Darcy Weir
But I'm just bringing.
- [152:35]
Mark Gagnon
If someone is coming from that tradition.
- [152:36]
Darcy Weir
If somebody's coming from that tradition, I'm saying this is what a subject matter experiment expert from the Catholic Church is saying.
- [152:44]
Mark Gagnon
Right, about that. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah. I spoke with a demonologist type that had performed exorcisms as well, this guy Ralph Sarchie, and he. I mean, he took on a pretty starkly different approach. And obviously he's like a much more traditional Catholic. And his assessment was like, you know, if there's some type of abduction happening or someone that is believing that this is occurring into their body, then, you know, he was like, I would consider that in some form like a desecration. And in the sense that if someone's having, like, you know, organs harvested or like, there are these stories of, like, you know, like, women having, like, egg harvesting through.
- [153:23]
Darcy Weir
That's reproductive stuff.
- [153:26]
Mark Gagnon
So he's like, I would consider that in some way desecration. Then additionally, he says, if someone has this anomalous experience that no longer, you know, believes in the church, then certainly that would shake their faith in Christ as a savior. So I asked him a similar question, and his. His approach was very much like, this whole thing is demonic. And I was like, but of course, you know, he's obviously a Catholic person, so that's going to skew sort of his perspective.
- [153:50]
Darcy Weir
So back to Bishop James Long, he was saying, you know, if you hear about a case where somebody's being abducted and then they screamed like Jesus or like some kind of. Of, you know, belief in God.
- [154:04]
Mark Gagnon
Are there cases like that?
- [154:05]
Darcy Weir
Yeah, there are. There are people that said that that thwarted the progression. He was like, then I could believe that that was probably demonic in nature because you just spoke a word that prescribes to God and the Savior and so on, so forth.
- [154:23]
Mark Gagnon
Right.
- [154:23]
Darcy Weir
But there's people. There's a guy that runs mufon. He's like a state director in California. His name's Earl Grey.
- [154:32]
Mark Gagnon
No, yeah, that's his real name.
- [154:34]
Darcy Weir
Yeah, his name's Earl Gray.
- [154:36]
Mark Gagnon
Hilarious.
- [154:36]
Darcy Weir
This is last name. I'm actually supposed to speak with him soon coming up. But he had abductions and that's where he became aware of this phenomenon. And he said, you know, coming as a, from a Christian background, he was deathly frightened. And he screamed out like, jesus saved me and stuff like that. And it didn't thwart anything. So when Bishop James Long hears about those descriptions, he's like, doesn't sound like an abduction. It doesn't sound like a demonic experience to me. It sounds like something physical that, you know, should have. If it was something truly demonic, that's not something they're down with.
- [155:17]
Mark Gagnon
Oh, that's interesting. Wow. So I guess just to kind of like button up, I'm curious if someone is interested in, you know, this world and they're getting into the UFO space, like, do you have advice as far as, like, staying away from grifters? How can they sort of keep their heads on and not just completely, you know, fly off the deep end and, you know, get either caught up into a world, get caught up into a cult, lose all their money, or maybe most importantly, lose their mind.
- [155:41]
Darcy Weir
Yeah. I kind of mentioned some of this stuff on Julian Dorey, so I'll state it again. If somebody is mentioning fundraising, like, give me your money towards this cause of disclosure or, you know, I can save you from the aliens or something. Fundraisers, usually, even with this group, they were doing fundraising like crazy for all kinds of that never. It just seemed like they were just lining their pockets. That's a real grifter move. So beware of that ascension or the Love and Light fear model where you say an impending doom is coming, but if you follow me and my love towards you and my teachings, it will prevent the doom. That's like number two big time cult move. Beware of that third thing. What was I going to. What was I going to say? The third thing was I've been talking all day, but the third thing I'd say, you know, if there's no facts, written documentation, evidence that comes back to like a official source, like government, military, something like that, it's just a story, right? And we as humans, we're camping out right now, we survived off of campfire stories, off of a fire that kept us warm at night, that we could see each other and could possibly see predators about to kill us in the forest or near it or whatever. We tell each other campfire stories to stay awake, to stay aware, and to Remind each other to be vigilant. But not all stories are made the same. And if you're telling, if somebody tells you a story that's fear based and it's like meant to trigger you and program you, just beware that like it is part of our DNA to tell these stories out of survival methods. Like these guys are literally watching the tribe sleep and they need to stay up to guard us from a bear or something like that. So they trigger each other, they tell each other's stories. You know, this is the way we've been for a long time. So beware of that because that also stokes paranoia and delusion that has existed in our DNA. And we're always looking for, I mean men especially, we're looking for that on the edge scary theory and there's sometimes nothing there.
- [158:50]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, that's great. Anything you want to contribute to that topic, specifically of getting sort of absorbed into groups of bad actors comes down.
- [158:58]
Jordan
To controlling our emotions, you know, being the master of our own emotions and not letting other people control them for us. You know, when I listen to these grifters all across social media spectrum, this conspiracy movement, that disclosure conspiracy movement, whatever, they often tell you how to, how to take what they're about to say. You know, this is going to be disturbing, this is mind blowing, this is going to scare you, this is going to amaze you, whatever the case, right? They're sort of preempting what they're going to tell you with the emotion they want you to feel. They're injecting that emotion into you, right? It's neuro linguistic programming. Studying neuro linguistic programming, studying logical fallacies, studying persuasion techniques. Very important to kind of defend yourself against that kind of manipulation, that kind of, those kinds of psyops. And when it comes to, yeah, when it comes to the money aspect, it's, it's a sticky situation, right, because we're all independent content creators, filmmakers, whatever the case, podcasters, and we look at the, the mainstream media, they're making millions if not billions of dollars to lie their freaking faces off to us. You know, we need alternative media to have some sort of support, monetary support, to continue doing what they're doing and to share the truth. So it is important to support independent content creators, but you gotta make sure they are offering value, something legitimate and not just some savior mindset of, you know, I'm gonna save you and donate to me so I can help you out and get all your problems to go away. Help me save society, help me save the planet. Right?
- [160:52]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah.
- [160:52]
Jordan
I mean, shit, I remember back on one of Corey Good's old websites, he called himself the Enoch of our modern times.
- [160:58]
Mark Gagnon
Hmm. Yeah, that's a bit of a red flag.
- [161:01]
Jordan
So, you know, the people who you do choose to support, make sure you follow them for a while, get to know who they really are. There's only so much you can really get to know about a person just watching them on a screen. But you can get to know some about people watching them on the Internet. Just make sure you watch them for a good amount of time. Make sure they're not contradicting themselves or being inconsistent with their words. Make sure that their actions follow their words and they're not just saying a bunch of bullshit to a camera when they're total jackasses when the cameras are off. Right. So there's a lot to do to sort of defend yourself against manipulation. And these things will impact your whole life, right? You'll be able to defend against manipulation from your boss or your friends or family or significant other. Whatever the case, you just, you know, make sure it's not happening with the person that you're watching on the screen. So it just comes down to being a critical thinker and just being cautious with yourself, with your time, your energy, and your money.
- [162:05]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, that's great. And if people are curious about seeing, I guess, a case study of bad actors in the space Gone Awry, Dark alliance is available. I checked it out on Amazon, but I'm sure it's available all over here.
- [162:17]
Jordan
Selling it for a whopping 99. So there you go.
- [162:21]
Darcy Weir
Low, low price. 99 cents per episode. And that was four years of work. Yeah.
- [162:28]
Mark Gagnon
Well, that'll get you your PJ home, right? That's what you said. You're flying back on the private jet is what you said. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [162:33]
Darcy Weir
Maybe you can fly him back. But. But yeah, it's also on like two btv, Roku, bunch of other streaming platforms. And if people want to see some of my other research, they could search by name. Darcy Weir on Amazon, on Tubi, on Roku. Like, I've got quite a extensive catalog. Or they could check out my website. Occult Journeys.com is the studio site.
- [162:58]
Mark Gagnon
Amazing.
- [162:58]
Jordan
Yeah.
- [162:59]
Mark Gagnon
Well, gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it.
- [163:01]
Darcy Weir
Thanks.
- [163:01]
Mark Gagnon
And yeah, next time you're in the city, let's do it again.
- [163:03]
Jordan
Awesome.
- [163:04]
Darcy Weir
Sick.
- [163:04]
Mark Gagnon
Thanks, guys. If you've made it to the end of this episode, that's because you rock with us. And for that, we rock with you. You are sophisticated, you enjoy, honest, true communication, a highbrow type of person that understands this. History is not just dates and names. It is a tapestry of human triumph and tragedy. From the day Nostradamus made his first prophecy to the mourning Paul Revere took his midnight ride from ancient oracles to modern revolutionaries. That is why I need you. If you have not already, please sign up for Today in History. Our free newsletter, Today in History brings you the stories that matter, the moments that changed everything, and the secrets hidden in time. Join thousands of history enthusiasts who get their daily journey through time. Don't let another day of history pass you by. Take the confidence conversation to your inbox. Sign up now through the QR code or link in the description Today in History because history stories shape tomorrow's world. Thank you for watching the episode. We'll see you next time.