Camp Gagnon Podcast: “Why ALIEN DISCLOSURE Is Happening Now & The Truth About Varginha”

Host: Mark Gagnon
Guest: James Fox (UFO documentary filmmaker)
Date: December 9, 2025

Episode Overview

In this deep-dive conversation, host Mark Gagnon welcomes renowned UFO documentarian James Fox to discuss the current state of alien disclosure, focusing on the groundbreaking Varginha incident in Brazil—often dubbed the "Roswell of Brazil." Fox shares jaw-dropping accounts, including never-before-heard testimony of direct communication with a captured alien, insider perspectives from military and intelligence circles, and offers his personal journey and methodology for separating signal from noise in the UFO phenomenon. The discussion weaves between historic cases, the mechanics and politics of disclosure, and the challenges of public perception, skepticism, and secrecy.

Key Topics & Insights

1. The Varginha Incident – "Roswell of Brazil"

[03:03 – 10:51]

• James Fox’s Reluctant Investigation:
  Initially dismissed as “impossible,” Fox only investigated Varginha after persistent recommendations from respected colleagues and researchers.

  “There’s no way a UFO can crash and live aliens be walking around the town and the whole world not know about it.”
  — James Fox [05:15]

• Turning Point:
  Encouraged by Stanton Friedman (nuclear physicist and Roswell researcher) to take the case seriously, Fox found mounting local testimony and direct (but off-the-record) admissions from high-ranking Brazilian military officials.

  “He looks up at us and he goes, ‘It happened.’ Click.”
  — Fox recalling Brazilian Air Force General Pereira [10:32]

• Secrecy and Safety:
  The general’s candid admission off-camera underscored the risks and pressure involved in acknowledging such incidents.

• National Security Dilemma:
  High military officials admitted the threat to public confidence—and thus government stability—presented by revealing they can’t control such phenomena.

  “You can’t have objects of unknown origin whizzing around with impunity... You think we’re going to disclose that nature of information? Hell, no.”
  — Fox paraphrasing General [11:25]

2. Secrecy, Disclosure, and Government Motives

[12:04 – 22:27]

• Balancing Openness and Security:
  Governments are reluctant to share what they “don’t know” as it presents vulnerability both to their own population and to global rivals.

  • If “crash retrieval” and alien technology exist, the military wants to stay ahead of adversaries—disclosure would risk technological leakage (to China/Russia).

• Media and Skepticism:
  Even with pilots, officials, and congressional hearings testifying, the lack of shared “smoking gun” evidence breeds skepticism or suspicions of “psyops” within the UAP community itself.

  “We might confess that we’re not alone, but how do they prove that without coughing up the goods?”
  — James Fox [17:02]

• The Disclosure Challenge:
  As Fox and Gagnon note, disclosure without proof leads to deeper divides between belief, skepticism, and conspiracy.

  “There’s a whole contingent pushing for disclosure, but then once it happens, it’s actually not real.”
  — Mark Gagnon [21:29]

3. Separating Truth from Noise: Fox’s Investigative Approach

[23:11 – 26:26]

• Evaluating Evidence:
  Fox places greatest weight on:

  • Multi-witness events,
  • Official radar, audio, and physical data
  • Consistency between witnesses and physical evidence

• Best-Evidence Cases:

  • JAL 1628 (1986): Radar, audio, pilot accounts—all nearly suppressed by the CIA.

  • Calvine, Scotland (1990):

    • “One of the best photographs ever” of a diamond-shaped craft and a military jet, buried for decades.
    • Witnesses vanished after men in black visited—another common pattern worldwide.
    • The Men in Black phenomenon (“men in dark suits”) recurs globally, and usually around compelling evidence.

    “If I had a dime for every time I heard those stories prior to me reporting on them, I’d be a gazillionaire.”
    — James Fox [31:58]

4. Human Response, Public Perception & Mass Sightings

[32:32 – 36:38]

• Phoenix Lights (1997):

  • Massive, silent boomerang craft seen by thousands, including then-Governor Symington and pilots.

  • Many witnesses simply "went back to having tea"—illustrating the psychological shock and suppression of anomalous events.

    “Sometimes it’s just too much to process.”
    — James Fox [35:17]

• Congressional Hearings and Whistleblowers:
  Recent years have seen more high-profile testimonies (e.g., David Grusch), but frustration remains about lack of concrete, public details.

  “Not one, not two, not three, multiple [alleging crash retrievals]... Is this just ontological shock?”
  — James Fox [37:24]

5. Telepathic Communication & The Nature of Contact

[39:41 – 46:07]

• Witnesses Describe Calm and (Sometimes) Telepathic Communication:
  Fox recounts pilots and other witnesses’ accounts of feeling overwhelming calm—or direct “messages” (e.g., “We mean you no harm”).

  “That was the first time I really got that level of communication with someone I really believed.”
  — James Fox [40:54]

• The Zimbabwe (Rua) School Landing (1994):

  • Over 60 children and teachers witnessed landed craft and beings who telepathically warned them about environmental destruction.
  • Consistency and “raw honesty” of the young witnesses struck Fox as remarkable.

6. Patterns in Sightings & Contact Incidents

[50:01 – 56:39]

• Recurring Themes Across Incidents:

  • Shutdowns of nuclear weapons (Malstrom, Bentwaters, etc.)

  • Environmental messages from entities (Zimbabwe, China, etc.)

  • School landings—children are often witnesses

    “Like taking matches out of the hands of a baby. Maybe you guys shouldn’t be playing around with these things.”
    — Launch control officer, via Fox [50:51]

• Men in Black / Official Pressure:

  • Witnesses, teachers, and physicians are often threatened into silence—sometimes by foreigners, sometimes by locals with foreign (often American) handlers.

7. Cultural, Political, and Media Impacts

[58:11 – 71:14]

• Hollywood and “Predictive Programming”:
  Spielberg’s Close Encounters and others drew directly from real cases, and the U.S. government has historically promoted ridicule as a way to suppress serious discussion (per the Robertson Panel).

  “We can adopt a policy of ridicule. So you make fun of those who claim to have seen them. That really stuck.”
  — James Fox [60:26]

• Memeification and Ridicule:
  Roswell tourism, alien cafes, and jokes—these can dilute seriousness and even be effective PSYOPs (as in Governor Symington’s infamous “alien press conference” to defuse local panic).

  “Truth comes out in a joke... It sort of adds levity to the situation.”
  — James Fox [66:33]

• Moments of Vindication:

  • Symington, after a decade of silence, admitted he himself saw the Phoenix Lights craft after being confronted by an aggrieved constituent and Fox.

    “I, too, saw that thing and I didn’t feel that it was of this earth…”
    — Former Gov. Symington [70:55]

8. Personal Encounters & Methodology

[94:11 – 109:16]

• Fox’s Interviewing Technique:
  Immersive listening—closes eyes, asks for every detail, deeply processes and records the witness feeling/state.

• His Own Sighting:

  • A “breathing” yellow-orange egg-shaped light outside a bedroom window; clear, immediate sense it was “aware” of being watched.

  • Years later, his co-witness independently remembered it the same way.

    “Whatever it is, I get the feeling it knows we’re looking at it.”
    — James Fox to Lisa [98:07]

• From Skeptic to Investigator:
  Fox was not an early believer, only drawn in after learning of credible witnesses (including astronauts like Gordon Cooper).

9. Presidents, Disclosure, and Political Reality

[113:16 – 123:38]

• Presidential Knowledge is Limited:

  • Fox “ambushed” Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford for off-the-record or secretive answers; both essentially said they tried to find out, were stonewalled.

    “Yes, but there were a lot of different answers and not the right… we weren’t happy with what we got back.”
    — Jimmy Carter [119:50]

  • President Ford initiated Congressional hearings after public outrage at "swamp gas" explanations for mass sightings.

  • Most presidents are “not read into the program”; the rationale is need-to-know, as they may only be in office a short time.

10. The Race for Technology & Reverse Engineering

[163:12 – 166:15]

• Global Secrecy is About Tech:

  • Russia, China, and the U.S. are all thought to have retrieved craft; secrecy is driven by the race for technological advantage, not necessarily for public panic or philosophical reasons.

    “Whoever gets this stuff first is like, ‘Wow, rock and roll.’ They don’t look at it like the philosophical implications... They’re still on domination time.”
    — James Fox [164:16]

• Reverse Engineering Cases:

  • Regarding Bob Lazar: Fox believes Lazar is sincere, but some aspects of his testimony are complicated by possible disinformation or mixed signals, perhaps intentional.

11. What Would Actual Disclosure Take?

[135:46 – 138:24]

• Fox’s Plan:
  Organize public statements and pleas from primary witnesses with direct knowledge—asking for immunity from NDAs to lay out specifics (locations, names, evidence) in open congressional hearings.

• Will Disclosure Happen?
  Fox believes “the genie is out of the bottle”—recent witness statements and documentaries (e.g., "Age of Disclosure") signal it's coming “sooner” than most expect.

  “They’re not going to put the genie back in the bottle. I don’t think so.”
  — James Fox [137:52]

12. Core Themes and Philosophical Questions

[151:32 – End]

• We Don’t Know the Big Picture:
  Fox maintains—no one, not even insiders, actually knows the full intent or origin of UAPs; various hypotheses (extraterrestrial, interdimensional, time-travelers) remain.

  “The more I learn, the more I don’t know and the more confused I am. It’s real, they’re here. I’d put my life on it. But what their agenda is, what their origins are, I haven’t got a clue.”
  — James Fox [152:57]

• Nuclear Connection:
  Strong evidence links mass sightings and interferences to nuclear activities, from Trinity onward.

  “Guess where all the pins were? All around Trinity Site… that was sort of an organic way of [discovering the nuclear connection].”
  — James Fox [158:52]

Notable Quotes & Standout Moments

• On the Difficulty of Disclosure:

  “If I got my hands on the definitive piece of footage, I’d have something to worry about. No question.”
  — James Fox [42:54 and 142:20]

• On Media & Ridicule:

  “You reveal what you know, you have to reveal all the things you don’t know.”
  — General Pereira, via Fox [11:55]

• On His Own Sighting:

  “Whatever it is, I get the feeling it knows we’re looking at it.”
  — James Fox [98:07]

• On What Lies Ahead:

  “We’re running a marathon. Be patient.”
  — James Fox [137:38]

• On the Nature of Contact:

  “If they were here to do us harm, we would have known it.”
  — James Fox [151:39]

• On the Ultimate Mystery:

  “I think anybody saying they know what’s going on doesn’t know what’s going on.”
  — James Fox [153:15]

Suggested Viewing / Next Steps

• James Fox’s new film:
  “Moment of Contact: New Revelations of Alien Encounters”
  (December 22, 2025 – Amazon, Apple, Google Play)

• Prior docs:
  “The Phenomenon”, “The Program” (free on YouTube, as referenced)

Timestamps of Key Segments

• Varginha Incident Backstory: [03:03 – 10:51]
• Military Secrecy and National Security: [11:12 – 13:43]
• Disclosure Complexities: [15:13 – 17:37]
• Calvine Photographic Evidence & Men in Black: [25:41 – 32:12]
• Phoenix Lights & Human Reaction: [32:48 – 36:38]
• Zimbabwe School Landing: [42:59 – 49:45]
• Reverse Engineering & Rival Nations: [163:12 – 164:20]
• Presidential Encounters & Interviews: [113:56 – 123:38]
• James Fox’s Own Encounter: [96:57 – 101:51]
• Disclosure Plan & Probable Timeline: [135:52 – 138:24]

Final Thoughts

James Fox brings decades of investigative rigor, open-minded skepticism, and direct access to elevated witnesses and evidence in the UFO field. The current climate, as outlined in this episode, is the closest we’ve ever been to open, public governmental acknowledgment of non-human intelligence and technology. Fox’s upcoming documentary promises potential firsthand testimony of “direct communication with a captured alien.” Regardless of listeners’ positions—skeptical or open—this conversation stands as a major moment in the discourse on UFOs, government secrecy, and what might come next.

For more, follow James Fox on X (@JamesCFox) and see “Moment of Contact: New Revelations of Alien Encounters” on December 22, 2025.