Camp Gagnon Podcast Summary
Episode: Why Are These Ancient Egyptian Vases Actually Impossible to Make?
Host: Mark Gagnon
Guest: Karoj (Caraway) Poka, Electrical Engineer & Egypt Enthusiast
Date: December 23, 2025
Episode Overview
In this thought-provoking conversation, Mark Gagnon interviews Karoj Poka—an electrical engineer and leading investigator of ancient Egyptian stone vases. The episode explores how certain ancient vases exhibit such extraordinary precision and engineering that modern technology cannot easily replicate them, raising questions about our understanding of early human technology, ancient manufacturing methods, and the very timeline and capabilities of Egyptian civilization.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Who is Karoj Poka? (02:59)
- Electrical engineer from Hungary
- Lifelong passion for ancient Egypt
- Applied modern laser and CT scanning to Egyptian stone vessels
- Part of a team conducting in-depth museum research to measure and analyze these artifacts
2. What Makes These Vases Unique? (04:15)
- Most vases are made from single pieces of extremely hard stone (granite, diorite, basalt—not pottery/clay)
- Their circular precision is astonishing: as low as 16 microns deviation, tighter than many modern machined parts
- Many vases date back to pre-dynastic Egypt (Nagada culture, before 3,100 BC)—even predating the pyramids
"The median circularity of this object is 6 ten-thousandths of an inch, which is extremely, extremely precise."
— Karoj Poka (03:38)
3. Conventional Explanations & Their Shortfalls (07:33)
- Mainstream theory: crafted by hand using flint tools, possibly mounted on simple wooden mechanisms
- Modern experiments to replicate these results fall short, especially in terms of circularity and precision
- Attempts documented by Scientists Against Myths (YouTube): after two years, could not match the precision of ancient originals, even with enhancements (18:20)
- The story goes that tens of thousands of these vases were found (especially beneath the Step Pyramid) (08:43)
"You have to hold onto those somehow...So this theory seems to be not complete to me."
— Karoj Poka on the flint tool explanation (07:15)
4. Scanning Technology: Revealing the Impossible (19:57)
- Poka's team used high-resolution laser and CT scanning to mathematically measure vessel tolerances
- OG Vase: 16 microns deviation (a fraction of the width of a human hair)
- Modern replicas, even with CNC machines, fail to achieve this precision
- Some interiors of vases are more "perfect" than exteriors—counterintuitive by conventional means
"Even with the most premier advanced modern technology, they were still four times less precise."
— Mark Gagnon (31:23)
5. Museum Access and Artifact Provenance (22:47)
- Collaborations with several top museums (London's Petrie Museum, Turin's Museo Egizio, Boston MFA, Brooklyn Museum)
- Emphasized importance of provenance—tracing an artifact's history to prove authenticity
- Difficulty in dating stone objects directly (can date the tomb/grave context, not the vase itself)
6. Ancient Technology or Lost Techniques? (26:31)
- Discussion on possible use of lathes, rudimentary machines, or unknown lost technologies
- Theoretical feasibility of hand-guided or wood/stone lathes with journal bearings, but no archaeological evidence for such tools
- Polishing theory: could finishing by hand achieve near-perfect circularity?
"If you polish it by hand, somehow you have to know how much more you should polish in this part and that part to be perfectly even..."
— Karoj Poka (61:46)
7. Contrasts to Later Egyptian Work (38:44)
- Precision and complexity seem to decrease across Egyptian history—most precise works are oldest
- Softer materials in later vases (alabaster, pottery) do not achieve the same tolerances, despite being easier to work with
"In Egypt, the older stuff is always a little bit better than the new stuff."
— Karoj Poka (38:43)
8. Major Outstanding Mysteries (56:57)
- No evidence of mass production (no two vases are identical)
- Handles are carved from the same stone, creating problems for lathe or casting theories
- Some vases are so thin, they're nearly transparent
- Why such extreme precision? Functional need, spiritual/religious symbolism, or just a side effect of lost technology?
"Why do you need a vase to be perfect? If you could achieve this with pottery, why not just do pottery?"
— Mark Gagnon (68:45)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
The Scale of the Enigma
"Some are so perfectly circular they deviate just 16 microns. Far more precise than modern CNC machines can reliably produce today."
— Mark Gagnon (01:00)
Toolmark Revelations
"If this was done by hand, it would perhaps be, you know, vertical kind of tool marks or something like that. Like these are very, very uniform...from the bottom all the way to the top."
— Mark Gagnon (11:45)
Modern vs Ancient Manufacturing Challenge
"I'm not a stonemason, but it would be extremely difficult...They cheated at one point when they put the vase on...a modern potter's wheel with metal bearings."
— Karoj Poka (15:32)
On Lost Knowledge
"You need two generations to forget something."
— Karoj Poka (40:24)
The Competition
"We're trying to launch a challenge... If you can reach the tolerance of these, we are giving away a $25,000 prize."
— Karoj Poka (70:02)
Engineering Analysis
"The scientist against myths is around 110 microns. The middle vase is around 72 microns, and the OG is 16. Human hair is around 80 micron. So it's like a fraction of a human hair in precision."
— Karoj Poka (19:45)
Timestamps for Key Segments
| Segment | Timestamp | |---|---| | Introductions & Background | 02:15 – 04:15 | | Explanation of Vase Uniqueness | 04:15 – 07:14 | | Theories & Debates (Mainstream vs Scanning Evidence) | 07:15 – 20:33 | | Scanning Technology, Modern Attempts, Precision Data | 19:23 – 31:23 | | Museum Work & Artifact Provenance | 22:47 – 25:19 | | Ancient Technology & Machine Theories | 26:31 – 31:50 | | The Lathe Hypothesis & Manufacturing Issues | 35:31 – 38:43 | | Comparing Old & New Artifacts | 38:44 – 52:34 | | Variability & Further Questions | 56:57 – 61:58 | | The Artifact Foundation Challenge | 70:02 – 71:10 | | Future Research & Changing Minds | 72:01 – 73:45 | | Granite Boxes in Subterranean Structures | 73:48 – 85:20 |
Additional Highlights
- No ‘smoking gun’ evidence: No known ancient lathes or explicit documentation of these tools exist, so mainstream scholarship is hesitant to reevaluate accepted narratives (46:56).
- Artifact Foundation’s $25k Challenge: Open call for artisans/stonemasons to reproduce a vase using only ancient methods and match tolerances (70:02).
- Perfect granite boxes: Investigation expands to precision-cut granite boxes beneath pyramids, showing levels of flatness (~100 microns) unseen even in modern countertops.
Conclusion
This episode offers a compelling deep dive into the physical mysteries of ancient Egyptian craftsmanship. Through methodical scanning and open-minded skepticism, the discussion encourages a re-examination of traditional archaeological explanations. The call to action—a public challenge to recreate the vases—underscores the spirit of scientific inquiry and may, in time, inspire mainstream reconsideration of ancient technological capabilities.
For more information or to join the Artifact Foundation’s challenge, visit: artifactfoundation.org
For more in-depth content from Karoj Poka, search for "Ancient Technology Podcast" or "Karoj Poker" on all major platforms.
[End of Summary]