Hanuman: Why This Hindu Monkey God Will Never Die | Religion Camp

Summary

Camp Gagnon — "Why This Hindu Monkey God Will Never Die | Religion Camp" (May 30, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this episode of Camp Gagnon’s "Religion Camp", host Mark Gagnon—joined by Christos Papadopados—dives deep into the mythology, cultural legacy, and philosophical impact of Hanuman, the Hindu “monkey god.” The episode explores why Hanuman, despite being neither a cosmic ruler nor a central protagonist, is regarded as one of the most beloved figures in Hinduism, renowned for his selfless devotion, power, and humility. Mark approaches the subject as a curious, respectful outsider, inviting input and corrections from those familiar with the tradition.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Stage: Understanding Hindu Epics (04:24–06:54)

• Distinction of Hinduism: Mark clarifies that Hinduism is not one single doctrine with a sole founder or a single scripture but rather a civilization comprised of diverse philosophies, major texts, and complementary traditions.
• Ramayana as More Than a Book: The Ramayana, one of the two pillars of Indian epic literature, serves as the base for Hanuman’s story. It is "recited and performed and painted and sung, debated, retold, filmed," shaping virtue concepts such as loyalty and sacrifice for thousands of years. (05:16–05:33)

Who is Hanuman? Hybrid Heritage and Divine Gifts (06:07–10:11)

• Vanara Identity: Hanuman is not a god in the usual sense. He is a Vanara—"forest man," neither human nor monkey, but a being of two worlds, representing both the wild and the civilized.
• Birth and Powers: Hanuman’s lineage blends the Vanara king Kasari (father), the celestial being Anjana (mother, cursed to earth), and Vayu, the wind god (divine father). Thus, Hanuman is called Vayuputra, “son of the wind.” (07:20–07:32)
• Childhood Misadventures: As a child, Hanuman, mistaking the sun for fruit, tries to eat it and is struck down by the thunderbolt of Indra. Vayu’s rage (withdrawing wind from the world) leads to intervention, after which Hanuman is granted a host of magical boons—immense strength, indestructibility, size-changing abilities. (08:03–09:26)

Notable Quote:

"The Sanskrit word for Hanu actually means jaw, which is almost certainly where Hanuman comes from—the one that was struck on the jaw."
— Mark Gagnon (09:32–09:38)

The Curse of Forgetfulness & Becoming Humble (10:11–11:21)

• Due to his mischief, Hanuman is cursed by sages to ‘forget’ his powers until reminded, ensuring he grows up humble and patient. Mark emphasizes how this curse is transformative: Hanuman learns humility, patience, and devotion before regaining his extraordinary gifts.

Meeting Ram: Purpose Through Service (11:27–15:11)

• Introduction to Ram: Ram, rightful prince exiled to the forest, represents the righteous cause for Hanuman's loyalty.
• First Meeting: Disguised as a Brahmin, Hanuman impresses Ram not through strength, but intellect and eloquence. Ram famously says a "ruler is fortunate indeed to have a minister like this." (14:41–15:02)
• Devotion Begins: Hanuman pledges his life to serve Ram, choosing service over personal power or status.

Hanuman’s Epic Deeds: The Search for Sita (15:12–31:44)

• The Mission: Hanuman helps Ram’s efforts to rescue Sita, his abducted wife.
• Restoration of Powers: At the southern tip of India, Hanuman, reminded of his destiny and gifts by Jambavan (king of bears), regains full power. (20:33–22:18)
• Crossing the Ocean: Hanuman leaps to Lanka, overcoming trials by supernatural beings using a mix of strength and intelligence—"classic Hanuman...intelligence in this situation matters a lot more." (24:14–24:26)
• Finding Sita: Hanuman makes contact with Sita in disguise, proving his sincerity with Ram’s signet ring. Sita, upholding her honor, insists Ram must rescue her openly. She gives Hanuman a chudamani (jewel) as proof for Ram. (25:52–28:03)

The Iconic Feats – Burning of Lanka & Carrying the Mountain (28:14–31:46)

• Lanka on Fire: After completing his task, Hanuman allows himself to be humiliated; his burning tail is used to set Lanka ablaze, except Sita's grove, which he spares. (29:06–29:44)
• Rescue Mission: In the climactic war, Hanuman saves Lakshman (Ram’s brother) by flying to the Himalayas and carrying an entire mountain of medicinal herbs, displaying the limits of his tremendous abilities. (31:08–31:44)

Notable Quote:

"[Hanuman] lifts the entire thing, the whole mountain, every rock, every tree, every root, every plant, and he [carries] it in his hands."
— Mark Gagnon (31:18–31:30)

Hanuman’s Devotion: The Pearls and the Heart (34:50–36:13)

• Gift of the Pearls: Sita gifts Hanuman a pearl necklace for his contributions. Hanuman cracks open each pearl, searching for Ram within. When asked, he tears open his chest to reveal Ram and Sita living within his heart.
• This act embodies Hanuman’s extraordinary devotion rather than a mere display of strength.

Notable Quote:

"He tears open his chest, and there in his heart are Ram and Sita, living and present inside of his heart, as though they had always been there."
— Mark Gagnon (35:58–36:07)

Hanuman’s Legacy: Immortality Through Devotion (36:33–39:06)

• Chiranjeevi – The Undying One: Hanuman requests to remain as long as Ram’s story is told. Thus, he is called a Chiranjeevi—one who never dies.
• Hanuman is believed by many to still be present, disguised and unnoticed, wherever Ram’s name is spoken.
• Hanuman Chalisa: Tulsi Das’s 40-verse prayer to Hanuman is recited daily by millions, emphasizing not asking for blessings, but remembering Hanuman’s qualities of courage, strength, and devotion.

Notable Quote:

"When I do not know who I am, I serve you. And when I do know who I am, you and I are one."
— Hanuman (quoted by Mark Gagnon, 19:03–19:23, and again at 42:18–42:20)

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Reflection & Takeaways (39:11–43:27)

• Hanuman’s Significance: Unlike creator gods or demolishers, Hanuman is honored for his selfless service, loyalty, and humility. His legend is a reminder that the greatest use of power is in service to others.
• Cultural Impact: Mark reflects on the influence of these stories on Indian and Hindu culture, comparing them to Catholic storytelling and values.
• Universal Lessons: The episode closes with reflections on universal themes: interconnection, the power of humility, and the importance of living with devotion and loyalty to others, no matter one's tradition.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Power and Service:
  "His power was never the center of who he was. It was his devotion and his loyalty."
  — Mark Gagnon (36:18–36:19)

• The Interconnectedness Philosophy:
  "There's this philosophy of the interconnectedness of everything, that you and I are just books on a bookshelf… together, we create this totality of consciousness and experience."
  — Mark Gagnon (42:25–42:36)

• On True Purpose:
  "What I need is… the devotion and the loyalty inside of me to compel me to do what is right."
  — Christos Papadopados (42:45–42:50)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:00 — Opening context on Hanuman
• 04:24 — Hinduism as philosophy and civilization; Ramayana explained
• 06:07 — Vanara identity and Hanuman’s birth
• 08:03 — The sun incident and divine boons
• 10:20 — Hanuman’s forgetfulness curse
• 11:27 — Ram and Hanuman’s meeting
• 14:41 — Ram recognizes Hanuman’s intellect
• 19:03 — Iconic quote: “When I do not know who I am, I serve you…”
• 20:33 — Hanuman’s powers restored
• 22:18 — Hanuman’s leap to Lanka
• 24:26 — Sarasa encounter—Hanuman outsmarts serpent test
• 27:21 — Hanuman hands Sita Ram’s ring
• 28:14 — Hanuman’s havoc in Lanka, burning the city
• 31:18 — Carrying the mountain to save Lakshman
• 34:50 — Gift of the pearls and Hanuman’s open heart
• 36:33 — Hanuman the Chiranjeevi; immortality explained
• 38:01 — Hanuman Chalisa and daily prayer
• 42:18 — Reprise of the "I serve you / you and I are one" quote
• 43:27 — Final reflection on universal devotion

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Conclusion & Closing Thoughts

Mark Gagnon and Christos Papadopados bring Hanuman’s legend to life, emphasizing its relevance for people of all backgrounds. The lesson is clear: power is greatest when used for selfless service. Hanuman’s immortality is a matter not of physical endurance, but of enduring inspiration—every time his story is recited, his spirit endures. The episode invites listeners of all faiths to find common ground in stories of devotion, humility, and the search for the divine in acts of service.

For additional insight, listeners are encouraged to share perspectives, especially Hindu voices or scholars, in the comments.

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(End of summary. Ads, sponsorships, and off-topic banter omitted.)

Transcript

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[Mark Gagnon]

Every morning across India, hundreds of millions

[Christos Papadopados]

of Hindus recite 40 verses of prayer.

[Mark Gagnon]

Not necessarily to a creator being, not to a king of the cosmos, but to a monkey God. He's a being described in ancient texts as a warrior who could fly, who once carried an entire mountain through the

[Christos Papadopados]

night sky to save a dying man's

[Mark Gagnon]

life, and who, according to those same

[Christos Papadopados]

traditions, may still be alive today.

[Mark Gagnon]

His name is Hanuman. Here's the question that sits at the

[Christos Papadopados]

heart of this story.

[Mark Gagnon]

How does a figure remembered not as a ruler, not as a creator, not even as the center of the epic itself, become one of the most beloved and called upon beings in all of Hindu tradition? Because Hanuman's story is not just about strength. It's about what happens when unimaginable power is placed inside someone humble enough to

[Christos Papadopados]

use it for other people.

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, today we're unpacking this powerful legacy and discovering who he, a monkey God, a supporting character, is and why it

[Christos Papadopados]

is so central to all of Hinduism.

[Mark Gagnon]

So sit back, relax, and welcome to Religion Camp. What's up, people? And welcome back to Religion Camp. My name is Mark Gagnon, and thank you for joining me in my tent, where every single week we explore the most interesting, fascinating, controversial stories from every religion from around the world, from all time, forever.

[Christos Papadopados]

Yes, that is what we do here.

[Mark Gagnon]

I do this show for a few reasons, and I'm assuming if you clicked on this video, you probably have the same mission. And as I my hope is that

[Christos Papadopados]

I can understand what every person on

[Mark Gagnon]

this planet believes because I truly think it is the best way for me

[Christos Papadopados]

to connect to my fellow human being.

[Mark Gagnon]

On top of that, I try to

[Christos Papadopados]

take all the things that I learn

[Mark Gagnon]

from every religion that I study and

[Christos Papadopados]

apply it back to my life.

[Mark Gagnon]

Take all the good stuff and leave everything else. And I just want to say a few things up top. First, I did not grow up Hindu, so I. I grew up Catholic. So if there's anything that I mispronounce or anything that I overlook or maybe get wrong in this episode, I'm sorry. And this is. I'm trying in good faith to understand what everyone believes. And with that, sometimes you got to take some swings. So if there's anything I missed, please

[Christos Papadopados]

don't hesitate to drop a comment below.

[Mark Gagnon]

Specifically, if you grew up in a Hindu tradition or if you studied this

[Christos Papadopados]

stuff at a scholarly level, I would love to know what you think.

[Mark Gagnon]

Secondly, I want to say a quick

[Christos Papadopados]

shout out to you, yes, to you, for watching and clicking on this video.

[Mark Gagnon]

Because every time you click on an

[Christos Papadopados]

episode that we do or you watch

[Mark Gagnon]

or you comment or anything like that,

[Christos Papadopados]

you help grow the show. You help keep the lights on the tent, and you help keep the fire burning here at the campsite.

[Sponsor Representative]

I also want to give a big

[Mark Gagnon]

shout out to my friends Sophia and Cep, who helped me do the research on this episode, as well as my good pal Christos Papadopados. Christos is the Greek freak himself.

[Christos Papadopados]

He's the Greek Orthodox ledge.

[Mark Gagnon]

He sits in this beautiful tent with me and makes every episode possible.

[Christos Papadopados]

So for that, Christos, we applaud you.

[Mark Gagnon]

What's up? I didn't say anything, dude. I just said we applaud you. You don't even have to. You could just say.

[Christos Papadopados]

You could just wave. Thanks. Appreciate that.

[Mark Gagnon]

Okay, anyway, guys, we're gonna jump into this fascinating episode. One last thing.

[Christos Papadopados]

Also, we do have a secret society. I don't know if you guys know this. It's just a small tangent on the side before we jump in. It's a very secretive society.

[Mark Gagnon]

It's the place where we gather as

[Christos Papadopados]

campers, where myself, Christos, and all the people of the camp universe get together. We share stories, we hang out, we listen to new episodes. I mean, every single month, you're gonna get bonus episodes.

[Mark Gagnon]

Every single month, you're gonna do live

[Christos Papadopados]

zooms with me and the rest of the squad.

[Mark Gagnon]

You're also going to be getting every

[Christos Papadopados]

single episode ad free. And the sacrifice for the society, it's just $5.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's it.

[Christos Papadopados]

You can get [e-mail] Camp Gagon. Now, let's jump into the episode.

[Mark Gagnon]

All right, well, here's the thing. Before we actually understand Hanuman and who this entity is and how really this

[Christos Papadopados]

story blends with the totality of Hindu philosophy.

[Mark Gagnon]

I want to make sure that we're

[Christos Papadopados]

on the same page about understanding Hindu gods and epics and all that stuff,

[Mark Gagnon]

because it's actually, I think, very different

[Christos Papadopados]

than what we're used to. Specifically, if you grow up like in the west or like with an Abrahamic

[Mark Gagnon]

religion, You see, Hinduism isn't built like a religion with one founder and one, you know, main book like the Bible or the Quran or, you know, one fixed way of believing. It's closer to. I mean, I've heard people describe it

[Christos Papadopados]

as a philosophy, right? It is like a bunch of philosophies in a way.

[Mark Gagnon]

It is a religious civilization thousands of years old with many major texts and divine figures and kind of complementary philosophies and traditions that can look very different

[Christos Papadopados]

depending on where you are.

[Mark Gagnon]

Hanuman's story comes from the Ramayana, one of the two great epics of India. And calling it a book, I mean,

[Christos Papadopados]

it's like it's more than a book, right?

[Mark Gagnon]

It's been recited and performed and painted

[Christos Papadopados]

and sung, debated, retold, filmed.

[Mark Gagnon]

It's reshaped how people in that culture

[Christos Papadopados]

for 2000 years have understood virtue. So things like loyalty and sacrifice and love and leadership.

[Mark Gagnon]

So right off the bat, Hanuman is

[Christos Papadopados]

not a God in the usual sense. He is what they call a Vanada.

[Mark Gagnon]

So from Sanskrit, vana means forest and nara means man.

[Christos Papadopados]

So literally kind of like forest man,

[Mark Gagnon]

so not a monkey, but also not a human.

[Christos Papadopados]

Something kind of hybridized in a sense.

[Mark Gagnon]

And the Vanaras are described as upright,

[Christos Papadopados]

powerful, warrior, like beings with fur and tails and like a primate like face.

[Mark Gagnon]

As a matter of fact, if you

[Christos Papadopados]

could pull up a picture of Hanuman and how he's depicted in traditional Indian or like typical, like Hindu sort of drawing, that'd be super helpful.

[Mark Gagnon]

So Hanuman and the rest of Vanaras, they, you know, wore clothes, they built

[Christos Papadopados]

cities, they had courts and a legal

[Mark Gagnon]

system and funeral rights and political alliances. Their capital, actually Kishkinda, was a real kingdom with a king and a secession

[Christos Papadopados]

issue like many kingdoms have, and internal politics. But we'll do a whole separate episode on that.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now you can actually see one of the depictions of, of Hanuman here. And you can see this is some

[Christos Papadopados]

of this depicted is very powerful. Again with sort of that like, hybridized feature of like human, but also someone of the forest, you know, something almost like, you know, like primal.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now, early sculptures will show the Vanaras

[Christos Papadopados]

standing like warriors, not crouching like animals.

[Mark Gagnon]

And that's kind of the point. They live on the edges of these

[Christos Papadopados]

two worlds, kind of like the wilderness and like the. The wildness of the forest but also the structure and the beauty of civil. And Hanuman had the finest mind among all the Vanaras. So his father was Kasari, a Vanara king.

[Mark Gagnon]

His mother was Anjana, a celestial being cursed to live on earth in Vanara

[Christos Papadopados]

form until she gave birth to him.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now his divine father was Vayu, the

[Christos Papadopados]

God of the wind.

[Mark Gagnon]

And that is why Hanuman is also called the Vayuputra, meaning son of the wind. He could fly, move faster than anyone

[Christos Papadopados]

else in the air.

[Mark Gagnon]

But all of that was about to be pointless because Hanuman was about to

[Christos Papadopados]

be cursed as a punishment for the very first thing that he does with his powers just as a baby.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now he doesn't do the typical baby thing.

[Christos Papadopados]

He doesn't like, knock something off the, you know, counter. He doesn't, you know, like yell or scream like it.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's not why he gets in trouble. He gets in trouble because he tries

[Christos Papadopados]

to eat the sun.

[Mark Gagnon]

So this is how the story goes. Hanuman looks up, he sees the sun blazing in the sky.

[Christos Papadopados]

And it's like this massive, beautiful sun.

[Mark Gagnon]

And he thinks it's a fruit.

[Christos Papadopados]

Fruit again. He's just a baby, right? It might be a kind of godlike,

[Mark Gagnon]

but he's a baby. And he does what, you know, any God baby would do, like Hanuman, he launches himself straight into it. Now Indra, the king of the gods, sees this and hurls the Vajra, his

[Christos Papadopados]

thunderbolt at this child and it actually

[Mark Gagnon]

strikes Hanuman on the jaw and he

[Christos Papadopados]

falls out of the sky.

[Mark Gagnon]

His father Vayu catches him and then does something unthinkable. Out of rage, he withdraws the wind from the entire world. Out of like every current, every, like Gulf Stream, the El Nino, all that, every breath is gone. And as a result, creation begins to suffocate.

[Christos Papadopados]

Gods, humans, animals, everything starts to die as the world is grinding towards just a. Like a deadly stillness. Now Shiva intervenes to revive the child.

[Mark Gagnon]

And the gods, realizing what they'd done, start to make amends. Now Indra again, the king of the gods grants that Hanuman's body will be

[Christos Papadopados]

as strong and indestructible as the Vajra, his own lightning bolt.

[Mark Gagnon]

And that the Vajra will never harm him again. And then the God Agni grants that fire will not harm him. And then the God Vanuara grants that

[Christos Papadopados]

water will not harm him.

[Mark Gagnon]

So then the sun God grants him the ability to change size from as

[Christos Papadopados]

small as like a thumb to as vast enough to fill the totality of the sky.

[Mark Gagnon]

And even his name becomes representative of that moment. The Sanskrit word for Hanu actually means

[Christos Papadopados]

jaw, which is almost certainly where Hanuman comes from, the one that was struck on the jaw.

[Mark Gagnon]

So a lifelong memory of how he was first punished and then kind of

[Christos Papadopados]

rewarded through this kind of like diplomatic, you know, kind of resettling by multiple

[Mark Gagnon]

gods giving him this unmatched power amongst the Vanara. So throughout his childhood he grows up with all this power and funny enough,

[Christos Papadopados]

I mean, kind of becomes like a

[Mark Gagnon]

menace, like not evil, but just like

[Christos Papadopados]

difficult to, to, to parent or to deal with, I guess.

[Mark Gagnon]

Like nothing can hurt him, nothing stops him.

[Christos Papadopados]

He spends his life, you know, like, disrupting sages in the forest and scattering

[Mark Gagnon]

offerings and wrecking like this peaceful world

[Christos Papadopados]

that they were building through years of meditation.

[Mark Gagnon]

And eventually the gods lose patience and they place yet another curse on him. Not a curse to destroy him, but a curse to. It's described as hiding him from himself. According to the Uttarakhanda of the Valmiki Ramayana, they declare that he will become unaware of his powers for a long time and then only remember them and once he is reminded. And that changes everything for a while. So now Hanuman continues to grow up, you know, strong, capable, extraordinary, but doesn't really remember who he truly is. He has no memory of flying at the sun, no memory of getting struck in the jaw. He doesn't remember the world, stop, you know, breathing for a while and getting

[Christos Papadopados]

all of these powers from the gods and becoming one of the most powerful beings in history.

[Mark Gagnon]

So now he's living just kind of like a normal life. And here's where things get interesting because that curse was, I mean, as the story goes, maybe the best thing that ever happened to Hanuman. Because by the time his powers come back, he's already learned patience and loyalty and humility and service. He doesn't grow like with this strength

[Christos Papadopados]

and like this arrogance attached to it.

[Mark Gagnon]

He grows into it with, you know,

[Christos Papadopados]

just kind of the attitude of a normal being.

[Mark Gagnon]

And that is exactly the kind of

[Christos Papadopados]

person that this next story needs because

[Mark Gagnon]

Hanuman is about to meet the one

[Christos Papadopados]

person who gives all that hidden power a purpose.

[Mark Gagnon]

Let me introduce to you Rom, the Prince of Ayota. And Ram is living in forest exile for 14 years. Now how he gets there, I'll explain

[Christos Papadopados]

that in another story for another time.

[Mark Gagnon]

But essentially he gave up his kingdom

[Christos Papadopados]

for a time to honor his father's. Word.

[Mark Gagnon]

His wife Sita and his younger brother

[Christos Papadopados]

Lakshman go with him.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now the whole Ramayana actually centers around this story. But in the forest in exile, something goes very badly. Now we're introduced to the villain of the story. This is the king Lanka.

[Christos Papadopados]

This is Ravana.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's a brilliant ten headed ruler. He's learned the four Vedas and the six Shastras. And he's a devotee of Shiva and

[Christos Papadopados]

a master of this massive wealthy kingdom.

[Mark Gagnon]

He is half Brahmin through his father and that's very important.

[Christos Papadopados]

And he's also half Rakshasa through his mother.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now the Rakshasas are usually translated as

[Christos Papadopados]

almost being like, like demons I guess.

[Mark Gagnon]

But even that I think is oversimplifying

[Christos Papadopados]

the complexity of how these characters are

[Mark Gagnon]

a supernatural race capable of great learning

[Christos Papadopados]

but also great cruelty.

[Mark Gagnon]

And they are not just like some cartoon monster people. They are a powerful supernatural civilization that

[Christos Papadopados]

chose power over restraint.

[Mark Gagnon]

And that is what makes them kind of demon adjacent. But through extreme years of, you know,

[Christos Papadopados]

penance, Ravana earns a lot of blessings

[Mark Gagnon]

from Brahma that make him invulnerable to

[Christos Papadopados]

gods and celestial beings.

[Mark Gagnon]

Meaning that he never asks for protection

[Christos Papadopados]

from humans because he considers them beneath him.

[Mark Gagnon]

And that mistake will end up costing him everything. But anyway, near the end of Ram's

[Christos Papadopados]

exile in the forest, they're encountered by

[Mark Gagnon]

Ravana's evil sister, a woman named Sherpananka. And she approaches Ram and is rejected by him. And the situation then escalates and she

[Christos Papadopados]

returns to her brother Ravana, I mean pissed.

[Mark Gagnon]

But once he hears about Sita, this

[Christos Papadopados]

is Ram's beautiful and virtuous wife, his

[Mark Gagnon]

anger turns into obsession. So through deceit, he separates her from

[Christos Papadopados]

Ram and abducts her across the ocean to Lanka.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now Ram has this impossible situation. His wife is gone. The man who took her rules the island kingdom protected by all these divine gifts and armies. And between them is a massive ocean.

[Christos Papadopados]

But of course Ram's not going to give up without trying.

[Mark Gagnon]

So Rom and his brother Lakshman search for Sita everywhere until they reach Rishia Muka. And this is a mountain where funny

[Christos Papadopados]

enough, a group of exiled Venaras are like living under this exiled king named Sugreev.

[Mark Gagnon]

And our monkey Vanara guy that we're talking about, Hanuman, happens to be Sugreev's closest advisor. So when Sugreev sees two armed strangers moving through the forest, he sends Hanuman

[Christos Papadopados]

to find out exactly who they are.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now Hanuman approaches them disguised as a Brahmin, a wandering Scholar, someone that people

[Christos Papadopados]

are very likely to trust.

[Mark Gagnon]

And he begins speaking with them.

[Christos Papadopados]

And Ram notices something immediately about Hanuman.

[Mark Gagnon]

Not his strength or his appearance or

[Christos Papadopados]

his dignity, you know, the fact that he's presenting as a Brahmin, but he notices his words.

[Mark Gagnon]

So Ram tells Lakshman that this man speaks with extraordinary command, like perfect grammar

[Christos Papadopados]

and tone and very well educated.

[Mark Gagnon]

He says that a ruler is fortunate

[Christos Papadopados]

indeed to have a minister like this.

[Mark Gagnon]

So notice here the first thing Ram

[Christos Papadopados]

admires about Hanuman is his mind, his intellect.

[Mark Gagnon]

And from that moment on, he devotes

[Christos Papadopados]

his life to helping Ram. Not to power, not to status, but

[Mark Gagnon]

to serving someone else who is in dire need. What's up guys? We're going to take a break really quick because there is a brand that

[Christos Papadopados]

we're working with that I am so stoked on. Truly one of my favorite products and it's called Ultra.

[Mark Gagnon]

All right. And Ultra just drops something that is

[Christos Papadopados]

going to change the game. It's already changed my life.

[Mark Gagnon]

So the way that I would think about this is whenever I'm tired and

[Christos Papadopados]

I'm sleepy and I'm not sleeping well, I am a worse person. Like I'll literally, I'll sleep bad three days in a row and everything starts to break down.

[Mark Gagnon]

I make worse decisions.

[Christos Papadopados]

I'm less good on stage. I feel like I'm less good on the pod. Like, I eat poorly, I don't work out as much.

[Mark Gagnon]

And as I get older, I'm realizing more and more sleep is like the

[Christos Papadopados]

only thing that really matters. If I sleep well, I'm in a better mood, I'm a better husband, I'm a better dad, I work out better, I feel better.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, everything stems from sleep. Here's the thing, you take like melatonin gummies or something, they're dosed with so

[Christos Papadopados]

much melatonin, it actually will make your sleep worse.

[Mark Gagnon]

Sometimes you'll be too sleepy to wake up.

[Christos Papadopados]

You get like an over the counter sleep med. Like, yeah, that's gonna completely nuke your sleep.

[Mark Gagnon]

And you don't wanna just be like

[Christos Papadopados]

dependent on a heavy duty medication just to be able to sleep like a normal.

[Mark Gagnon]

And that is why I want to

[Christos Papadopados]

talk to you guys about Ultra's new sleep pouches.

[Mark Gagnon]

This is actually genius. I mean, you probably, I don't know

[Christos Papadopados]

if you saw Joe Rogan just recently shouted them out on his podcast just organically.

[Mark Gagnon]

And the idea with Ultra is fascinating.

[Christos Papadopados]

Now everyone knows, you know, Ultra has pouches for energy.

[Mark Gagnon]

You know, they are basically have the same active ingredient.

[Christos Papadopados]

You'll Find in, like, caffeine.

[Mark Gagnon]

And it's a nicotine free boost that

[Christos Papadopados]

just makes you feel good now. It's awesome.

[Mark Gagnon]

And I've been taking the Ultra pouches for a while.

[Christos Papadopados]

This is the new blue raspberry flavor that I love.

[Mark Gagnon]

And I just take it throughout the day.

[Christos Papadopados]

It helps me cut back on my

[Mark Gagnon]

nicotine and I just feel good.

[Christos Papadopados]

It gives you, like, a little boost. But this is where they flipped it. They made a pouch for winding down.

[Mark Gagnon]

This is one that I put in

[Christos Papadopados]

right before I go to sleep. Like, I'm sitting on the couch, my wife watching a show, and I want

[Mark Gagnon]

to pop something in.

[Christos Papadopados]

I'll pop in the ultra sleep pouch. This is the honey lemon flavor. It tastes amazing.

[Mark Gagnon]

And it's just, you know, it's nice

[Christos Papadopados]

to do something right now.

[Mark Gagnon]

Here's the thing. I don't wake up.

[Christos Papadopados]

Like, I'm exhausted. I'm not popping like, nicotine or caffeine right before I go to sleep. This actually has an ingredient stack that makes sense. It has 1 milligram of melatonin, which

[Mark Gagnon]

is a much more reasonable dose.

[Christos Papadopados]

You don't have to, like, all of a sudden hit like 10 milligrams or something.

[Mark Gagnon]

It also has L Theanine, which helps

[Christos Papadopados]

calm the racing thoughts. It's like, basically it just relaxes your central nervous system and it gives you that thing of, like, instead of late night rumination, you're like, I'm just gonna go to sleep.

[Mark Gagnon]

It also has magnesium, which you should

[Christos Papadopados]

already be taking to help go to sleep. It also has chamomile, passion flower, and

[Mark Gagnon]

lemon balm extracts to actually help you

[Christos Papadopados]

sleep better and sleep longer and feel more recovered.

[Mark Gagnon]

And it's not just one ingredient trying to do everything.

[Christos Papadopados]

It's a full nighttime stack rate in one can.

[Mark Gagnon]

They're super easy.

[Christos Papadopados]

I literally just pop it in my lip before bed, like 10, 20 minutes, and I am ready to go to sleep immediately.

[Mark Gagnon]

And for me, the big thing is

[Christos Papadopados]

that I want to sleep better without feeling wrecked the next day. And that is what is so great about Ultra.

[Mark Gagnon]

So with these sleep patches, I'm getting deeper sleep. Literally, my whoop is showing me that

[Christos Papadopados]

I'm getting better sleep.

[Mark Gagnon]

I'm not groggy when I wake up. And honestly, track it with your own

[Christos Papadopados]

whoop or like your aura ring or whatever, because this is the exact kind of thing you want to test. Ultra sleep pouches deliver better, deeper sleep with properly dosed natural ingredients.

[Mark Gagnon]

And the new customers can use the code Camp C A M p to

[Christos Papadopados]

take 15% off when they go to take ultra.com, that's take ultra.com for 15% off with the code.

[Mark Gagnon]

I'm telling you, everyone is going to

[Christos Papadopados]

be using these Ultra Sleep pouches as well as all the other Ultra products.

[Mark Gagnon]

And I'm telling you, I'm putting you

[Christos Papadopados]

guys on game before anyone else.

[Mark Gagnon]

And after your purchase, tell them that

[Christos Papadopados]

you heard about them from the good folks over here at camp. Now let's get back to the show.

[Mark Gagnon]

Tulsi Das, the famous poet and Saint, wrote in 1574 and records a famous exchange between them. Ram asks Hanuman, almost like in a teasing way, what are you, a monkey or a man? Hanuman bows and replies, when I do not know who I am, I serve you. And when I do know who I

[Christos Papadopados]

am, you and I are one.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now that line gets to the heart

[Christos Papadopados]

of Hanuman better than maybe anything else.

[Mark Gagnon]

And it's almost worth repeating. When I do not know who I am, I serve you. And when I do know who I

[Christos Papadopados]

am, you and I are one.

[Mark Gagnon]

So now this iconic pair, Hanuman and Ram, are linked up and they're vibing with each other. They got a little bromance going. They're like, you know what, we're going

[Christos Papadopados]

to help each other out because we're boys.

[Mark Gagnon]

Ram is a prince on a quest and Hanuman, still living, as you know,

[Christos Papadopados]

an ordinary Venara with extraordinary powers that he doesn't really remember.

[Mark Gagnon]

But little does he know, the powers

[Christos Papadopados]

that he forgot are about to come back.

[Mark Gagnon]

So now at this point in the story, Ram goes on like a side

[Christos Papadopados]

quest to go help the king that Hanuman was working for, this guy Sugriv, to reclaim his kingdom.

[Mark Gagnon]

Then Sugriv turns around and helps Ram out too.

[Christos Papadopados]

What does he do?

[Mark Gagnon]

He sends search parties in every direction

[Christos Papadopados]

to find his wife, Sita.

[Mark Gagnon]

Hanuman goes south and keeps searching until

[Christos Papadopados]

he runs out of land.

[Mark Gagnon]

At the very edge of the subcontinent

[Christos Papadopados]

on the southern shore of India, he learns that Sita is being held captive across the ocean.

[Mark Gagnon]

And with that devastating news, the majority

[Christos Papadopados]

of the searchers just are like, you know what? This is hopeless. We're never going to find Sita. She's on the other side of the ocean. It's not going to work.

[Mark Gagnon]

No one believes that they can go

[Christos Papadopados]

across the entire ocean to go find Sita. They don't even really know exactly where she is. Even Hanuman just kind of says nothing. He sits alone, quiet, just sort of dejected, like unsure of what to do.

[Mark Gagnon]

But then he's approached by Jumbavun, the king of bears who is essentially like

[Christos Papadopados]

the guru figure in this story.

[Mark Gagnon]

He sees Hanuman and immediately knows who he is. Jumbhavan is old enough to remember what

[Christos Papadopados]

everyone else had forgotten and he remembers

[Mark Gagnon]

that Hanuman is not merely strong, but is one of the most gifted beings in the world. Like Hanuman, he is also one of the immortals.

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[Mark Gagnon]

Rules and restrictions apply and he had seen the gods place those gifts on

[Christos Papadopados]

the child with his very own eyes.

[Mark Gagnon]

So he doesn't give Hanuman some grand speech about bravery. He simply reminds him who he is. He retells Hanuman's birth and his powers

[Christos Papadopados]

and the blessings that the gods gave

[Mark Gagnon]

him as an infant. And in that moment, the curse is broken. Remember what we originally said about Hanuman? That he forgot his amazing powers, but

[Christos Papadopados]

they would come back to him once he was reminded.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then the mountain beneath him starts to tremble and Hanuman starts to grow so, like massive, taller than the trees.

[Christos Papadopados]

Like he's like he's larger than all

[Mark Gagnon]

the other venars around him until he

[Christos Papadopados]

starts to stand like a mountain himself.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then he looks towards the ocean, finally understanding the full capacity of his

[Christos Papadopados]

recovered power and says in effect, I will not return without completing my friend's task.

[Mark Gagnon]

So he climbs to the highest point

[Christos Papadopados]

on the coast, gathers himself and just jumps.

[Mark Gagnon]

And the force of this jump splits

[Christos Papadopados]

the rocks beneath him and Hanuman shoots into the sky.

[Mark Gagnon]

But here's the thing. Getting to Lanka is not as simple as one jump. First, Menaka, the mountain rising from the

[Christos Papadopados]

sea, comes up to offer him rest.

[Mark Gagnon]

Sent by the Ocean.

[Christos Papadopados]

Out of gratitude to Ram's dynasty.

[Mark Gagnon]

Manaka tells the old story of how

[Christos Papadopados]

mountains once had wings before Indra cut them off.

[Mark Gagnon]

And how he has remained hidden beneath

[Christos Papadopados]

the water ever since that day.

[Mark Gagnon]

Hanuman acknowledges the kindness with a touch

[Christos Papadopados]

of his chest and then keeps going.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then comes Sarasa, the mother of

[Christos Papadopados]

serpents sent by the gods to test him. She rises in like this terrifying form

[Mark Gagnon]

and declares that he must enter her

[Christos Papadopados]

mouth before he can pass.

[Mark Gagnon]

Hanuman tries to reason with her first, and he explains who he is and where he's going and why he must go to Lanka to go help out his boy Rom and go find Rom's wife. He even promises to enter her mouth on the way back. He's like, look, I'll do the whole mouth thing, but let me just go. And then I'll, you know, I'll circle

[Christos Papadopados]

back and do this whole little ritual.

[Mark Gagnon]

But she refuses. So the two begin a face off to see who between them can grow

[Christos Papadopados]

to be the biggest.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now, Hanuman grows to what this, the, the actual text says is 10 yojanas. She opens to 20, he grows to 30, she widens to 40. Higher and higher, their contest is going. And then suddenly Hanuman shrinks to the size of a thumb and he darts into her mouth, flies back out, bows

[Christos Papadopados]

and says the conditions have been met.

[Mark Gagnon]

And that is classic Hanuman, right? Strength when needed, but intelligence in this situation and matters a lot more. He's smart enough to be like, hey, I'm gonna get you to be in this competition. You're gonna get super big and I'm

[Christos Papadopados]

gonna be super tiny. Jump in, jump out, I did your thing, we're moving on. So Sarasa, impressed by this intelligence and this cleverness, blesses him and lets him pass. But the crossing journey to Lanka is still not over.

[Mark Gagnon]

A demoness named Siminka drags at his

[Christos Papadopados]

shadow from below, slowing him in midair.

[Mark Gagnon]

Hanuman looks down and sees the enormous form beneath him and like beneath the sea.

[Christos Papadopados]

And he destroys her.

[Mark Gagnon]

Then finally, the land of Lanka appears on the horizon. Hanuman has done the impossible.

[Christos Papadopados]

He crossed the ocean.

[Mark Gagnon]

But what he finds on the other

[Christos Papadopados]

side is not what he expected.

[Mark Gagnon]

You see, Lanka is not a wasteland of monsters. In the Sundara Kanda, it is described

[Christos Papadopados]

as a city of staggering wealth.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, he shows up, there's golden palaces everywhere, there's fortifications, there's these broad roads and like these massive gardens just

[Christos Papadopados]

like full of lush green, you know, like flowers.

[Mark Gagnon]

And he has this kingdom built for

[Christos Papadopados]

power, ruled entirely by none other than the Villain we met in the forest,

[Mark Gagnon]

this half demon guy who abducted Sita in the first place, the villain of

[Christos Papadopados]

the whole story, Ravana.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now Hanuman pulls up to the gates and shrinks into like this tiny little,

[Christos Papadopados]

like thumb, you know, size, and then

[Mark Gagnon]

slips through the gates to get, get into the city. And he moves quietly through palaces, you

[Christos Papadopados]

know, guarded halls, like, basically like the inner workings of Ravana's, like courts and like his whole palace. And then finally at the Ashaka grove near the palace, he finds Sita.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now she's just sitting there beneath a tree. She's exhausted and surrounded by Rakshasa's guards. Months have passed since she was originally abducted and Ravana has pressured her again and again to just abandon Ram and just become the queen of this entire kingdom.

[Christos Papadopados]

And every day she's refused.

[Mark Gagnon]

So Hanuman watches from the branches of a nearby tree and realizes that he's got a problem, right? Like he's there, he found her. But if he drops down suddenly, she might think this is like another trick of Ravana's. So what does he do?

[Christos Papadopados]

He can either like, try to like fight his way out. He can pop down and be like, hey, I'm here to go take you back to your, your husband. Like, do you want to just roll with me?

[Mark Gagnon]

Like he's in a tough situation because

[Christos Papadopados]

now he's inside this whole kingdom.

[Mark Gagnon]

So Hanuman does something very carefully and very smart.

[Christos Papadopados]

He speaks in the plain language of Ayota, in her home language.

[Mark Gagnon]

And softly from the branches, he begins retelling Rom's story.

[Christos Papadopados]

The exile, the search, the grief, the pain that he feels. And he lets the words reach her before his physical presence does.

[Mark Gagnon]

And she finally looks up and she sees him. And even though what he's telling her is compelling, she still needs more proof.

[Christos Papadopados]

She's extremely skeptical.

[Mark Gagnon]

Sita asks him to describe Ram.

[Christos Papadopados]

His face, like his nature, his character, his leadership.

[Mark Gagnon]

So Hanuman answers in specific detail, the kind that only someone close to Rom

[Christos Papadopados]

and someone loyal to him would actually know.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then, only then, does she begin to believe him. Then he gives her his final piece of proof.

[Christos Papadopados]

Rom's signet ring.

[Mark Gagnon]

She recognizes it instantly and then presses

[Christos Papadopados]

it to her chest as if she's like embracing Ram himself.

[Mark Gagnon]

And for the first time in months,

[Christos Papadopados]

she knows for certain that Ram has not stopped looking for her.

[Mark Gagnon]

Hanuman offers to carry her out of Lanka immediately, but Sita actually refuses. She insists that this conflict must be

[Christos Papadopados]

resolved by Rom openly and rightly doing the just thing.

[Mark Gagnon]

She's not going to just, you know, dip out in secret. Like even here at the lowest point of her life, she's choosing honor and

[Christos Papadopados]

dignity over anything else.

[Mark Gagnon]

So instead she gives Hanuman a chudamani.

[Christos Papadopados]

This is a jewel that was in her hair.

[Mark Gagnon]

And she basically gives it to him

[Christos Papadopados]

for him to carry back to Rom as proof that he actually found her.

[Mark Gagnon]

So at this point, Hanuman's mission is technically done right. He was like, I'm gonna go find Sita. He goes, he finds her, he gets proof and he could deliver the message

[Christos Papadopados]

and he could leave.

[Mark Gagnon]

But of course, if you know anything

[Christos Papadopados]

about Hanuman so far, he doesn't choose to just dip out.

[Mark Gagnon]

Because Hanuman decides that before Ram comes

[Christos Papadopados]

to Lanka, Lanka needs to know what's coming for them.

[Mark Gagnon]

Hanuman begins wreaking havoc throughout the city, forcing Ravonna's kingdom to react. He's challenging warriors, he's creating chaos. And at some point even allows himself

[Christos Papadopados]

to be captured and brought before Ravana himself.

[Mark Gagnon]

And Ravana orders that his punishment should be very simple.

[Christos Papadopados]

He wants humiliation.

[Mark Gagnon]

So Hanuman's monkey tail, this long, powerful, unmistakable signature of Hanuman, is wrapped in

[Christos Papadopados]

oil soaked cloth and then set on fire.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then he is dragged through the streets as a warning. This big public spectacle meant to show what happens to anyone who serves raum

[Christos Papadopados]

and goes against Ravana. But they have no idea who they're dealing with, right? I mean, Hanuman's not just, you know, a regular being.

[Mark Gagnon]

Hanuman looks at the burning tail and breaks free. Then he starts moving through Lanka like at high speed, rooftop to rooftop building to milling building, just jumping around, turning the flames of his punishment into a weapon against the city himself.

[Christos Papadopados]

He was like, yo, you're going to light me on fire. Watch what I'm about to do to your city.

[Mark Gagnon]

So now palaces are going up in flames. Raana's magnificent capital starts to burn. All the palaces and the gardens, all

[Christos Papadopados]

of that turns ablaze and the sky turns orange.

[Mark Gagnon]

But one place is intentionally spared.

[Christos Papadopados]

The Ashaka grove.

[Mark Gagnon]

And why does he do that?

[Christos Papadopados]

Because that is where Sita is being held.

[Mark Gagnon]

The Sundarakanda makes it very clear that Hanuman made sure that the flames would

[Christos Papadopados]

not touch that place.

[Mark Gagnon]

Only after all that does Hanuman race

[Christos Papadopados]

to the edge of the ocean. He extinguishes the fire on his tail and takes a breath.

[Mark Gagnon]

Behind him, this massive kingdom of Lanka is burning. Ahead of him, Rom is waiting for the news that his beloved wife is

[Christos Papadopados]

alive and is okay.

[Mark Gagnon]

And up until this point, the story

[Christos Papadopados]

has been about a search, a rescue mission, a desperate attempt to find One woman across the ocean.

[Mark Gagnon]

But now, as Hanuman flies back over

[Christos Papadopados]

the ocean, it becomes about war.

[Mark Gagnon]

Ram's army reaches Lanka by crossing the

[Christos Papadopados]

ocean on the Nala Setu.

[Mark Gagnon]

And what follows is one of the

[Christos Papadopados]

greatest battles in all of ancient literature ever. Okay, I mean, this is like one of the focal points of the whole story.

[Mark Gagnon]

And if you're just a fan of

[Christos Papadopados]

ancient literature, this is a story that you should know well before disaster actually comes around.

[Mark Gagnon]

In the middle of the fighting, Lakshman is badly wounded. The army's physician said there's only one

[Christos Papadopados]

thing that could actually save him, and

[Mark Gagnon]

it's an herb called San Giovanni. And it's growing in the nearby mountains in the Himalayas.

[Christos Papadopados]

And it has to be brought back before the sun rises or else he will die.

[Mark Gagnon]

And unfortunately, that task of getting that herb from the Himalayas and back to

[Christos Papadopados]

the site to go save Lakshman, it's impossible.

[Mark Gagnon]

Except we're dealing with Hanuman. So what does Hanuman do? He leaves immediately.

[Christos Papadopados]

He finds the mountain range.

[Mark Gagnon]

He lands in the middle of the night.

[Christos Papadopados]

It's pitch dark. But he also has a bigger problem. He can't find the exact herb.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's looking around and he knows roughly what he's looking for, but, like, there's hundreds of plants all over the slopes, and it's in the middle of the dark. And on top of that, he's a warrior.

[Christos Papadopados]

He's not like a physician or like a healer or anything.

[Mark Gagnon]

So he does the only thing that he can. He digs his hands into the base of the mountain and lifts the entire thing, the whole mountain, every rock, every tree, every root, every plant, and he raised it into the night sky and

[Christos Papadopados]

carried itself in his hands.

[Mark Gagnon]

The Yudhakhanda says that people looked up

[Christos Papadopados]

in the darkness and they saw this vast figure racing across the sky with this giant mountain above him, just holding in his hands. And just in time, he makes it back.

[Mark Gagnon]

Sushana finds the correct herb, and Lakshman

[Christos Papadopados]

is able to live. Hey, guys, we're gonna take a break really quick because I want to talk to you about gld.

[Mark Gagnon]

This is an awesome new company that

[Christos Papadopados]

we're working with that I am actually wearing right now.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now, here's the thing. You probably have the basics right.

[Christos Papadopados]

You always have, like, the shoes your go to shoes you always wear. You always got the jeans you always wear. You got that one black tee that makes your biceps pop. You know, we all got, like, the one fit that we feel nice in.

[Mark Gagnon]

But most dudes are missing the final piece.

[Christos Papadopados]

I'm talking about the Jesus piece, I'm talking about the jewelry that brings the whole fit together. Yes. And that is where GLD comes from. I actually got this crucifix right here.

[Mark Gagnon]

And honestly, even just getting it, you

[Christos Papadopados]

know, sometimes like when you work with some companies, you're like, all right, I really hope the product is good.

[Mark Gagnon]

This one is.

[Christos Papadopados]

I. I wear it all the time. This is actually like the new crucifix. I lost my last one at a bath house, literally at a sauna. I lost my crucifix, which is maybe God's way of telling me something.

[Mark Gagnon]

But I got a new one from GLD and I've been rocking it non stop.

[Christos Papadopados]

My wife likes it and it's got

[Mark Gagnon]

like a nice we to it.

[Christos Papadopados]

The details actually look better in person. The clasp is like super solid. It doesn't feel like something you bought like in Times Square from a random dude. It doesn't feel like something you ordered from, you know, some sketchy website on teemu.

[Mark Gagnon]

Like, this is the real simple, clean crucifix.

[Christos Papadopados]

And they've got a bunch of stuff. It's not just religious. Like I throw it on and it just makes me feel like I have like an actual outfit. I just, it makes me feel good. And they got everything, chains, pendants, bracelets, watches.

[Mark Gagnon]

Whether you want something subtle or something

[Christos Papadopados]

that's like, yo, I just, I just signed a deal, you know, I mean, if you want like the record deal chain, they got that too. They have official collabs with, I mean basically everyone. NFL, NBA, mlb, ncaa, NHL, DC Comics, mls.

[Mark Gagnon]

So you can actually rep your team

[Christos Papadopados]

without looking like you bought merch from like a random dude outside the stadium.

[Mark Gagnon]

Plus, they have pieces at every price point.

[Christos Papadopados]

They can get you the entry level 18k gold plated piece all the way up to the solid gold and natural diamond piece.

[Mark Gagnon]

And they even do fully custom pieces.

[Christos Papadopados]

So if you want a one of one pendant, GLD can actually just do that for you.

[Mark Gagnon]

And every single piece is guaranteed for life. Now if I haven't convinced you yet, let me sweeten the deal a little bit. All right? For a limited time, the listeners of

[Christos Papadopados]

this program, Camp Gagnon, Religion Camp, History Camp, and the entire Camp universe, you're

[Mark Gagnon]

getting a crazy deal. If you use the code camp c

[Christos Papadopados]

a m p when you check out, you're gonna get 40% off your entire [e-mail].

[Mark Gagnon]

that's 40% off your whole order with

[Christos Papadopados]

the Code Camp at checkout at gld.

[Mark Gagnon]

And after you purchase, they're going to

[Christos Papadopados]

ask where you heard about gld.

[Mark Gagnon]

Tell them you heard about them from,

[Christos Papadopados]

you know, the good folks here at the campsite Mark and Christo sent you. And whenever you do that, it really helps, you know, support the show. And thank you so much to gld and thank you to you for tuning in. Let's get back to the show now.

[Mark Gagnon]

At this point, the war continues. And maybe we just make the a

[Christos Papadopados]

whole episode about the war because it's a whole thing.

[Mark Gagnon]

But what you need to know is

[Christos Papadopados]

that the war eventually ends. Ravana is killed by Ram, his precious wife Sita is freed.

[Mark Gagnon]

And after 14 years of exile, Ram

[Christos Papadopados]

finally returns to Ayodha, the, you know,

[Mark Gagnon]

the place of his birth, his kingdom,

[Christos Papadopados]

and he's rightfully crowned king.

[Mark Gagnon]

Gifts are given to those who served,

[Christos Papadopados]

and eventually it's Hanuman's turn to receive something. So Sita looks across the court at all the warriors who fought for Ram and, you know, got him his kingdom back and saved her.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then she looks down at a pearl necklace that she had been given,

[Christos Papadopados]

and Rom understands what she's thinking. Immediately he tells her to give it to the one who proves himself most worthy.

[Mark Gagnon]

And of course, she gives it to Hanuman. He receives it with both hands and studies it for a moment.

[Christos Papadopados]

But then he does something that no one expects.

[Mark Gagnon]

He starts biting open the pearls one

[Christos Papadopados]

by one, examining them and then tossing them aside.

[Mark Gagnon]

And everyone watches in confusion. Like, everyone's like, what are you doing? This is a gift from, like, the

[Christos Papadopados]

queen that you just saved. Why are you, like, doing this to her gift?

[Mark Gagnon]

And then someone asks him what he's doing and Hanuman answers, he's looking for

[Christos Papadopados]

Ram in the pearls because if they don't contain Ram, then to him they have no value.

[Mark Gagnon]

And someone laughs.

[Christos Papadopados]

And, like, it's kind of almost like a joke.

[Mark Gagnon]

And, you know, people look around and then they ask the question that's supposed to stump him. He literally, the people look at Hanuman and they say, does Ram live inside of you then? But then Hanuman does something unforgettable.

[Christos Papadopados]

The story goes that he tears open his chest and there in his heart are Ram and Sita, living and present inside of his heart as though like

[Mark Gagnon]

they had always been there. And it's one of the most famous

[Christos Papadopados]

images in the entire tradition of this story.

[Mark Gagnon]

And it says something that the story has kind of been building towards from

[Christos Papadopados]

the very beginning, that his power was

[Mark Gagnon]

never the center of who he was.

[Christos Papadopados]

It was his devotion and his loyalty.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now Ram looks at him and says,

[Christos Papadopados]

basically that there's nothing left to give him anything else would be smaller than what Hanuman already has. So Hanuman makes one request.

[Mark Gagnon]

Let me remain as long as your

[Christos Papadopados]

story is still being told.

[Mark Gagnon]

And this request is central to the

[Christos Papadopados]

long lasting legacy of Hanuman.

[Mark Gagnon]

And it's why the Hindu texts actually call him a Chiranjeevi, meaning the one

[Christos Papadopados]

who does not die.

[Mark Gagnon]

Not because death can't touch him, but

[Christos Papadopados]

because the conditions for his departure according

[Mark Gagnon]

to them haven't arrived yet. The story of Ram and Sita is still being told. And so Hanuman, according to this deal, still remains. And that brings us to the final

[Christos Papadopados]

part of the story, the part that

[Mark Gagnon]

is still going on to this day,

[Christos Papadopados]

and the part that according to many Hindus, will never end.

[Mark Gagnon]

And why Hanuman in Hindu tradition is

[Christos Papadopados]

not treated as a distant figure of the ancient past, because to them he's not.

[Mark Gagnon]

According to tradition, many Hindus believe that

[Christos Papadopados]

Hanuman is still out there, still on the earth and alive in some way, disguised, ordinary and unnoticed.

[Mark Gagnon]

He might be in a temple, he might be in a crowd, maybe even

[Christos Papadopados]

standing quietly nearby whenever Rom's name is spoken.

[Mark Gagnon]

Which means, if the tradition is true, that the being who once flew towards the sun as a kid, survived a thunderbolt, forgot his own power, remembered it carried mountains, could still be out there,

[Christos Papadopados]

staying present and vigilant as a friend

[Mark Gagnon]

to help you ask nothing, wants nothing but living on more than just like

[Christos Papadopados]

a legend, but as an inspiration. So as his story gets told over

[Mark Gagnon]

and over every single day in a prayer, his legacy remains in the Hanuman Chalisa. This is where the basically the verses

[Christos Papadopados]

that we referenced at the very beginning of the episode.

[Mark Gagnon]

The Hanuman chalisa is a 40 verse

[Christos Papadopados]

prayer composed by Tulsidas in the 16th century.

[Mark Gagnon]

And it helps explain why Hanuman is

[Christos Papadopados]

often called upon by people in their ordinary lives.

[Mark Gagnon]

It's not a prayer of asking necessarily. It's a prayer of remembering and remembering Hanuman and his courage and his strength and his devotion. It's almost more like, it's almost like

[Christos Papadopados]

a mantra, like repeating those qualities.

[Mark Gagnon]

And every day in the prayer, it like it doing the prayer itself and

[Christos Papadopados]

the verses itself, like, will draw Hanuman towards them.

[Mark Gagnon]

And in a tradition as vast as

[Christos Papadopados]

Hinduism, with characters like Ram and Krishna

[Mark Gagnon]

and Shiva and Vishnu and countless others, it's pretty significant that Hanuman stands out

[Christos Papadopados]

as much as he does because he's

[Mark Gagnon]

not remembered as someone that you would

[Christos Papadopados]

think of necessarily as the most impressive being because, you know, he's not a creator or a destroyer or the cosmic ruler of anything.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right?

[Christos Papadopados]

We talk about Shiva and Vishnu and Brahma all the time.

[Mark Gagnon]

But Hanuman is remembered as someone who served, and that kind of selflessness and

[Christos Papadopados]

loyalty and devotion, that was enough to earn his place besides the other gods.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, literally, he carried on another

[Christos Papadopados]

person's mission as if it was as important as his own life.

[Mark Gagnon]

And that maybe is the greatest thing

[Christos Papadopados]

that someone with an extraordinary ability can do, is to spend that ability and to basically use that gift to serve someone else who needs it.

[Mark Gagnon]

And that is an abridged history of

[Christos Papadopados]

the story and the legacy of Hanuman. I mean, I. I just love, like, going through, like, old, like, basically, like, Hindu lore, like, understanding, like, the Hindu philosophy and understanding how these characters interface.

[Mark Gagnon]

Like, for me, I would go to,

[Christos Papadopados]

like, my, you know, like, I would have.

[Mark Gagnon]

I'd go, like, my Hindu friend's house

[Christos Papadopados]

or something, you know, and they would just have, like, statues of, like, Shiva, and I would see, like, a painting

[Mark Gagnon]

of Hanuman and I would see, like,

[Christos Papadopados]

these different characters that existed in the world.

[Mark Gagnon]

And growing up Catholic, it was always striking to me.

[Christos Papadopados]

I'd always just, like, be so confused. I was like, what.

[Mark Gagnon]

What does. What does this mean?

[Christos Papadopados]

How does it work?

[Mark Gagnon]

And I understand now much better that these beings exist as, I mean, at the very least, reminders of how we

[Christos Papadopados]

should be as humans.

[Mark Gagnon]

And ultimately, by looking at these stories

[Christos Papadopados]

and looking at what they do and how they interface with the world that they existed in, you're able to then apply those things to your life. So I think about my Indian and my Hindu friends, and they're fiercely loyal and extremely devoted to, you know, their

[Mark Gagnon]

loved ones and their families. And they are focused on, like, you

[Christos Papadopados]

know, these principles of, like, character and leadership and doing what's right and what's honorable.

[Mark Gagnon]

And it's no mystery to me that so much of that is steeped even

[Christos Papadopados]

in the cultural knowledge of, you know, the Ramayana or other Vedas or the, you know, totality of the. The. What do they call it?

[Mark Gagnon]

The Motobarret.

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[Christos Papadopados]

I always mess it up. One time, Joey every said something like,

[Mark Gagnon]

you just said burrata.

[Christos Papadopados]

And I was like, ah, now I think of cheese every time. But that's disrespectful to the story of India.

[Mark Gagnon]

So it's just one of those things

[Christos Papadopados]

that you hear and you're like, oh, wow, it makes so much more sense.

[Mark Gagnon]

So I don't know, that's kind of the takeaways that.

[Christos Papadopados]

That I got, that, you know, you look at these. These beings.

[Mark Gagnon]

And also I even think the most,

[Christos Papadopados]

you know, like, understated thing. Two things. One, that line of, like, when I

[Mark Gagnon]

don't remember who I am, I serve you. When I remember who I am, you

[Christos Papadopados]

and I are one. It's just like a bar, you know what I mean? Like, when I know my power, you and I are the same. And that, you know, there's this philosophy of, like, the interconnectedness of everything, that you and I are just books on a bookshelf.

[Mark Gagnon]

You know, like, we might be distinct

[Christos Papadopados]

and individual, but that together we create this totality of, you know, consciousness and experience. And then the other thing of, like, opening the heart and showing, like, hey,

[Mark Gagnon]

I don't need pearls.

[Christos Papadopados]

I don't need money or wealth or all these extravagant things.

[Mark Gagnon]

Really.

[Christos Papadopados]

What I need is, you know, the. The devotion and the loyalty inside of me to compel me to do what is right. I'm not doing these things to get money or I'm not doing these things to, you know, aggrandize myself. I'm doing them because of my devotion to the people that I've put my word to.

[Mark Gagnon]

And that I think is.

[Christos Papadopados]

Is important, you know, And I think at the very least, every person, like, even if you haven't read the Ramayana or, you know, the story of Hanuman,

[Mark Gagnon]

I think you can look at this

[Christos Papadopados]

and be like, yeah, I should. You know, whether it's your parents or, like, your children, like, that is the purpose driver in the devotion that, you know, I think everyone has in their hearts that they hope to, you know, live out with as much devotion and loyalty as Hanuman himself.

[Mark Gagnon]

I don't know.

[Christos Papadopados]

Croesus.

[Mark Gagnon]

You learn anything? You mentioned a quote that goes hard. But this picture that you mentioned, that's infamous.

[Christos Papadopados]

Look at this. Whoa. Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

So there you go.

[Christos Papadopados]

Yeah, you see? You see Rom you see Sita standing

[Mark Gagnon]

there, Put that on a camp shirt, right? Or like, some incarnation of that of, like, yeah, opening your chest and me being there. That is. That is.

[Christos Papadopados]

That's really. They asked me what I do and who I do it for, how I come up with this stuff up in the studio. You know what I mean?

[Mark Gagnon]

I'd buy that [e-mail].

[Christos Papadopados]

that's what I do it all for you, Christos. Facts.

[Mark Gagnon]

And I also do it for you,

[Christos Papadopados]

person watching at home.

[Mark Gagnon]

If there's anything I missed, please don't

[Christos Papadopados]

hesitate to drop a comment.

[Mark Gagnon]

I read all of them.

[Christos Papadopados]

YouTube, Spotify. I like to go through them and see what you guys are thinking.

[Mark Gagnon]

Funny ones are great, informative ones, or

[Christos Papadopados]

even a little bit better, you know, I mean, I like the funny ones,

[Mark Gagnon]

too, but if there's anything I missed, if you grew up Hindu, if there's

[Christos Papadopados]

a part of the story that I completely overlooked, if you're a scholar of this story, if you've read it, please don't hesitate to, you know, include your thoughts and. And kind of what the story means

[Mark Gagnon]

to you and how it applies to

[Christos Papadopados]

your own life and how it kind of shapes your worldview and, you know, who you are as a person.

[Mark Gagnon]

And if you never heard of this, if you grew up, maybe, like me,

[Christos Papadopados]

kind of like in a Catholic tradition or maybe in the west, and maybe

[Mark Gagnon]

you've gone to your, you know, Hindu

[Christos Papadopados]

friend's house and you've seen a picture like this one, you're like, oh, what is that about?

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, now you know. So I'm curious. Did you learn anything?

[Christos Papadopados]

Is there anything that you take away that you can apply to your own life?

[Mark Gagnon]

I would love to know.

[Christos Papadopados]

That's what the point of the show is, to bring people together.

[Mark Gagnon]

I saw a comment on one of

[Christos Papadopados]

the last religion camps that we did about the Dijal, and there was, like, a guy that commented, I forget who it was. We can pull up his name. But he basically commented, like, you know, as a Christian, I love learning about, you know, Muslim beliefs and Muslim eschatology.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then all the comments were like,

[Christos Papadopados]

asalaam alikum to you, brother. Like, I appreciate your faith and, you know, we should stay united. That's really what it's all about.

[Mark Gagnon]

I think the powers that be in

[Christos Papadopados]

the world want us to be divided.

[Mark Gagnon]

And if nothing else, you don't have

[Christos Papadopados]

to believe every religion, but I do think you can have respect and an admiration for, you know, the things that people build their lives around, whether you are, you know, Hindu or sick or Muslim or Jewish or Christian, you know, specifically if you're Catholic.

[Mark Gagnon]

I think there's things we can learn

[Christos Papadopados]

and appreciate from all of, you know, all the cultures and religions of the world. And that's kind of the point of the show.

[Mark Gagnon]

But anyway, I appreciate you all very much.

[Christos Papadopados]

God bless you.

[Mark Gagnon]

Have an amazing Sunday.

[Christos Papadopados]

Go to church or temple or gurdwar

[Mark Gagnon]

or mosque or wherever you go. And don't stop believing.

[Christos Papadopados]

I'll see you all in the future.

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