Behind the scenes on The Social: When the media gets it right

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Canadian True Crime
Host: Kristi Lee
Episode: Behind the scenes on The Social: When the media gets it right
Date: July 31, 2026

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Overview

This episode offers an intimate behind-the-scenes look at Kristi Lee and survivor advocate Jessica Baker’s appearance on the Canadian daytime talk show The Social. The hosts reflect on trauma-informed media practices, discuss their personal experiences with the show, and contrast these with less supportive approaches in the media landscape. They explore why such coverage can be empowering for survivors and advocates, especially when media outlets “get it right.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Background: Media Invitations and Reluctance

• Jessica’s Media Hesitation:
  After the CBC documentary Breaking Idol aired in November 2025, Jessica Baker, a survivor from the Jacob Hoggard case, was approached by multiple media outlets for interviews (01:25-02:10). She declined most, mainly not wanting to navigate such exposure alone and wary of public perception.
  • Jessica Baker (02:10): “I don't want people to think that I am trying to just like get on TV or...be famous...I'm very picky.”
• Kristi’s Media Insecurity:
  Kristi describes her earlier experiences as riddled with imposter syndrome and a lack of clarity about her role in the crime storytelling space (02:25-06:25).
  • She recalls a disastrous TV panel in 2020 where ambiguity and lack of preparation left her flustered and determined to avoid similar situations (03:45-06:25).
  • Kristi Lee (06:03): “There’s an actual term for it, explanatory journalism—taking complex subjects, connecting the dots, and adding context that can’t always fit into a standard news article...Back then, I just didn’t have the language for it and I was cloaked in my imposter syndrome.”

Trauma-Informed Journalism: The Social’s Approach

• Supportive Process:
  When featured on The Social in early 2026, Kristi noticed a stark contrast in how producers (notably Megan) prepared guests (06:34-08:08):
  • Pre-interviews, advance questions, rehearsals, sensitivity to trauma all contributed to a safer and more confident appearance.
  • Kristi Lee (07:46): “Because I'd already been on The Social...I felt prepared and supported...I felt really confident that the team would give her [Jessica] the same care that they'd given me.”
• Jessica’s Positive Experience:
  Jessica echoes Kristi’s relief.
  • Jessica Baker (08:18): “It was so much better than I thought...they make you so comfortable and they're so sweet...rehearsal so it would be the same people we're having a conversation with and we knew exactly where to sit.”
• Defining Trauma-Informed Practice:
  Kristi references Tamara Cherry’s work to describe practices like advance preparation, consent over difficult topics, and advocacy for support people (08:40-11:00).
  • Kristi Lee (09:25): “These practices can be as simple as explaining the process in advance, sharing the topics...consulting with the survivor before asking difficult questions, offering breaks and following up afterwards. Allowing a trusted support person to attend is a big one.”

Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

On TV: Communicating the Impact of Trauma (11:12-13:58)

• Jessica’s Reluctance and Bravery:

  • Jessica Baker (11:20): “I did not think that anyone would believe me because at the time, he was actually very popular. They asked me if I wanted to report it, and I said no originally.”
  • Jessica explains her decision to come forward after learning another complainant had been involved at a very young age:
    Jessica Baker (11:35): “I wanted to come forward so I could corroborate her story because they’re very similar.”

• Trial Experience and Trauma:
  Kristi briefly blanks on air during a legal explanation but is supported by Jessica, demonstrating the importance of teamwork and preparation (11:59).

  • Jessica Baker (12:59): “It's like a second assault...you're talking about the worst thing that's ever happened to you in front of a room full of people, and they're judging everything that you're saying. That was the worst day of my entire life, being on the stand. Everyone kept saying, 'Oh, I'll see you tomorrow,' and I planned on killing myself that night.”
  • Kristi Lee (13:25): “She just couldn't face another day. And because you're all alone. It was very emotional.”

Community Support: The Kindness Circle (13:58-15:42)

• Standing Ovation:
  The on-set audience’s response was powerful.

  • Kristi Lee (13:58): “At the end of the segment, the live audience gave Jessica a standing ovation...Jessica...started crying on the stage. An incredible moment.”
  • Jessica Baker (13:58): “It’s very, like, empowering...They were very kind, and we were so lucky that the audience was full of the Kindness Crew.”

• Kindness Circle Impact:
  After filming, members of a community organization called Kindness Circle surrounded Jessica with encouragement.

  • Jessica Baker (14:36): “I'm so used to doing things by myself, so it's nice to have, like, supporters physically there.”
  • Jessica Baker (15:06): “There are so many of us out here that are afraid, and because of what you did...I never thought that people would come up to me on the street and say nice things to me. So, yeah, I love those women. I hope I see them again.”

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Important Timestamps

• 01:25 — Jessica recounts her media hesitance post-documentary
• 03:45—06:25 — Kristi’s disastrous first TV experience
• 06:34—08:08 — Kristi details The Social’s trauma-informed production
• 08:18 — Jessica on feeling at ease for the TV segment
• 09:25 — Kristi explains trauma-informed journalism concepts
• 11:12—13:58 — Key TV segment: Jessica’s account of testifying, Kristi’s supportive moment
• 13:58 — Live standing ovation and audience support
• 14:24 — Introduction and impact of Kindness Circle
• 15:06 — Jessica on public empathy and surprise support

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Notable Quotes (with Attribution & Timestamps)

• “I don't want people to think that I am trying to just like get on TV or, I don't know, be famous or be known or something like that. So I just pick my opportunities. I'm very picky.”
  — Jessica Baker, 02:10

• “There’s an actual term for it, explanatory journalism—taking complex subjects, connecting the dots and adding context that can’t always fit into a standard news article...Back then, I just didn’t have the language for it and I was cloaked in my imposter syndrome.”
  — Kristi Lee, 06:03

• “Because I'd already been on The Social...I felt prepared and supported...I felt really confident that the team would give her [Jessica] the same care that they'd given me.”
  — Kristi Lee, 07:46

• “They make you so comfortable and they're so sweet. Like the ladies are incredible...It was less nerve wracking.”
  — Jessica Baker, 08:18

• “It's like a second assault...you're talking about the worst thing that's ever happened to you in front of a room full of people, and they're judging everything that you're saying. That was the worst day of my entire life, being on the stand. I planned on killing myself that night.”
  — Jessica Baker, 12:59

• “I'm so used to doing things by myself, so it's nice to have, like, supporters physically there.”
  — Jessica Baker, 14:36

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Takeaways

• Trauma-informed media work can dramatically transform a survivor’s experience, making space for empowerment and validating support.
• Preparation, empathy, and flexibility—from sharing questions in advance to enabling support networks—are crucial to good journalism on sensitive topics.
• Community reaction and visible support can provide healing for survivors and push back against isolation and fear.
• Victims and advocates thrive when given agency and respect in the media process, reminding audiences of the true impact of getting these stories—and the process—right.

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Transcript

[A]

Hi there. I hope you're well. I wanted to tell you about something really cool that happened this past Monday. So this is just a little kind of update today on the Social. Inside the trial of former Headley frontman

[B]

Jacob Hogard with Canadian true crime host Christy Lee and advocate and survivor Jessica Baker.

[A]

Plus, the Social airs on CTV from about 2pm on weekdays, a very popular daytime talk show that's been described as Canada's version of the View. And just before Jessica left to return home to Ottawa, we sat down for a very quick debrief about how it all went. Hi, Jess.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

We've been here for two nights. I just wanted to jump in the morning after to have a very quick debrief of our time at the Social because it was. It's my second time now and I have to say, like, how amazing it all was. And Jess, how did you find it?

[B]

Every single person there was so, so kind and so empathetic. You could tell that they really, like, took care of the sensitive subject matter that we were talking about. I had the best experience and normally I'm not a fan of being on TV or on camera or anything like that, but I would, I'd do it again, for sure.

[A]

It's important to understand that since the CBC documentary Breaking Idol, directed by Tiffany Xiang, was released back In November of 2025, Jessica has been contacted by multiple media outlets asking for interviews and TV appearances. She turned them all down for a few reasons. One is that she didn't want to do them by herself. Jessica, after the documentary, I know that you were feeling like, you know, it was the first time being on tv, but also the time when your identity as the survivor or a survivor from the Jacob Hogart case was first made known. And it was a very brave decision. And understandably you kind of retreated a little bit after that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I also, like, I don't want people to think that I am trying to just like get on TV or, I don't know, be famous or be known or something like that. So I just pick my opportunities. Very. I'm very picky.

[A]

Yeah, I am as well. Like, I, I'm quite a bit reclusive, so. So I want to give you a bit of a backstory about all of this because it all kind of feeds into the extremely positive experience we had on the Social. My first time on Canadian TV was in January of 2020. I was invited to be a panellist on a Saturday night pop culture TV show and there was a segment on True Crime. I'm not a natural speaker, and I'm really best if I can be prepared. So beforehand, I tried to get some idea of the topics we might be discussing or the questions I might be asked. The producer was extremely vague, which I think was intentional. There's a school of thought in journalism that you get the most natural answers by catching people slightly off guard. The problem is that approach does not work well on everyone. For some, that is me, it can be a total disaster. So not only was I feeling deeply unprepared, but it was during the peak of my imposter syndrome era, where a couple of journalists had told me they were essentially salty about me occupying this space and they felt that this style of podcast was the equivalent of stealing their work. So imagine how I felt as I arrived at the studio on the day of filming and was introduced to one of my fellow panelists, Kevin Donovan, the Toronto Star's lead investigative reporter, most well known for the Barry and Honey Sherman case. I introduced myself to him as the resident hack, and I physically cringe when I think about that. But in my mind, I was kind of trying to disarm him before he had a reason to judge me, that I wasn't claiming to be a journalist and I posed absolutely no threat to him or his work. Of course, this was all happening entirely inside my own head. Kevin Donovan didn't know who I was. Neither did our other panellist, who was a criminologist these days. I know that those journalists who reached out to me do not represent all the journalists out there. And I also know that the work that I do is legitimate. There's an actual term for it, explanatory journalism, taking complex subjects, connecting the dots and adding context that can't always fit into a standard news article, and then making it accessible to a different audience. But back then, I just didn't have the language for it and I was cloaked in my imposter syndrome. So the three of us took our places on the couch at the set. The host introduced the segment and then immediately directed the first question to me. I can't remember what he asked, but I do remember just staring at him like a deer in the headlights, unable to find a single word. It's a brain blank. It's an ADHD thing, and it happens when there's information overload, and it's happened to me many times. That is why I wanted to know the questions that they were going to ask in advance. Anyway, after a couple of tense seconds, I had to apologise and ask if we could start again. I was lucky that the show wasn't live and I made it through the segment, although I was the opposite of confident and honestly, it showed that particular TV show no longer airs. And fortunately, all evidence of my episode has been scrubbed from the Internet. But when I walked out of the TV studio that day, I made a decision. I would never put myself in that position again. So after that, I said no to almost every single media opportunity that came my way. Six years later, in January of this year, I somehow landed an opportunity to go on CTV's the Social and talk about my new Robert Picton series. At first I really wanted to say no, but I know how popular the Social is, especially with women. So I spoke with the producer, Megan, about how the process would work. And honestly, it couldn't have been more different from my previous experience. Megan follows True Crime herself, and she really did her research and understood the sensitivities involved. There was a pre interview. I was then sent the questions in advance. And then about an hour before the live taping, we had a rehearsal to test all of the timing and make sure everything flowed. It is live TV after all. But I felt like I'd been given the best possible chance to succeed. And I'm very grateful that I did a half decent job. No brain blanks. Thankfully, that time. There will be another one, which I'll tell you about in a second. Everyone was incredibly kind and supportive, including the hosts, Melissa Grello and Jess Allen. So that was back in January. Cut to a few weeks ago, and the Social reached out to me again, back to my conversation with Jessica. When the producer reached back out to me, Megan, to say, hey, I saw your episode about the Jacob Hoggard parole hearing and all the buried information in that parole document. She said, would you like to come on the show again with Jessica? So I talked to Jessica. And what did you think? At first, no.

[B]

But I love the Social.

[A]

I love watching it.

[B]

And I know I don't like being

[A]

on tv, but because I'd already been on the Social and I had something else to compare it to, I was able to tell Jessica that I felt prepared and supported and. And I'm just a regular True Crime podcast host, so I felt really confident that the team would give her the same care that they'd given me. Plus she wouldn't be by herself. So we arranged for Jessica to catch the train to Toronto once again, and I came in from the burbs to stay with her for the two nights.

[B]

No, it was so much better than I thought it was going to be because they made they make you so comfortable and they're so sweet. Like the ladies are incredible. And it was so nice that they actually sat with us at rehearsal so it would be the same people we're having a conversation with and we knew exactly where to sit.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

It was less nerve wracking.

[A]

Those are just some examples of how the social was a different experience to what survivors and victims of crime often encounter with the mainstream media. And there's a term for how best to do it should Trauma Informed journalism. It's about understanding how trauma affects a person before, during and after an interview and then adapting the process to create a safe, predictable and supportive environment for them. I'm getting this info from Tamara Cherry, journalist, trauma researcher, and author of the book the Trauma A Case for Rethinking the Business of Bad News. I highly recommend it. These practices can be as simple as explaining the process in advance, sharing the topics or questions, consulting with the survivor before asking difficult questions, offering breaks and following up afterwards. Allowing a trusted support person to attend is a big one. Jessica has been denied this before. Some journalists are just so rigid in their practices, but the Social accommodated us both so that Jessica could focus on reacting to what happened and I could take care of the factual and procedural explanations. Trauma informed practices also mean giving the survivor some choice over the setting and the language. At the Social, Jessica was offered the chance to do the segment away from the studio audience if that made her more comfortable. When I was first on the show back in January, I really found the audience to be a huge confidence booster. So I told Jessica that and we decided to go for it. And the producers responded to that by limiting the audience to a smaller number, inviting a group of amazing activists called the Kindness Circle to act as cheerleaders for Jessica, more on them in a second, and making sure that everyone was informed about the serious nature of the segment. We didn't even have to ask for all of this. Everyone from the producers to the hosts of the segment, that's Melissa Grello and Cynthia Loist, to the talent and audience coordinators. They were all proactive in adapting their usual processes to make sure it was a safe space for Jessica. They clearly understood that if she's prepared and supported enough to be fully present in the moment, it'll make for a better, more meaningful conversation, which is ultimately better for the audience's experience as well. And according to the numbers, it was a very popular segment. There's a link in the show Notes to watch it on the Socials YouTube channel. Here's a couple of clips.

[B]

Christy has closely covered the case, including many interviews with Jessica. Thank you both for being here.

[A]

Thanks for having us.

[B]

I did not think that anyone would believe me because at the time, he was actually very popular. They asked me if I wanted to report it, and I said no originally.

[A]

So you eventually did come forward, and what led you to that decision?

[B]

I saw there was an arrest for another complainant, and she was only 16 years old when it happened to her. So I wanted to come forward so that I could corroborate her story because they're very similar. Christy, can you explain why there's a particular part of the sexual assault trial that is so challenging and how rape shield laws are meant to shape the sort of questions that happen?

[A]

Yeah, so I'm not a lawyer. I'm just a layperson, obviously. But sexual assault is a uniquely intimate crime because the survivors. Okay, so remember the brain blank thing? Well, I did have another one, but it wasn't so bad. I'd just done a bit of a lengthy explainer about how unique sexual assault trials are and why rape shield laws exist. And when I got to the example I was supposed to give, I completely blanked out. And then I looked at Jessica and she mouthed it. And so I was able to continue Accused. Right. To a fair trial. So, yeah, Jessica unfortunately bore the brunt of it. They, like, what was the. Oh, yeah, yeah. So what they. Sorry. What they did was there was a 30 second, 15 minute phone call that Jacob Hogart secretly recorded. Thank you to Jess for saving me. Jessica, you have said that testifying was even worse than the assault itself.

[B]

Take us through that. It's like a second assault. Like, you're talking about the worst thing that's ever happened to you in front of a room full of people, and they're judging everything that you're saying. That was the worst day of my entire life, being on the stand. I was telling Christy, I said on her podcast that everyone kept saying, like, oh, I'll see you tomorrow, and I planned on killing myself that night. Oh, God.

[A]

Yeah. She just couldn't face another day. And because you're all alone, Right. It was very emotional. And then at the end of the segment, the live audience gave Jessica a standing ovation, so we all stood up as well. And Jessica kind of started crying on the stage. And it was just this, like, incredible moment. And, well, for me, it was. How. How was it for you?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it's very, like, empowering. It's hard to describe. They were very kind, and we were so lucky that the audience was full of the Kindness Crew.

[A]

We keep calling them the Kindness Crew, but it's actually Kindness Circle. It's a Canadian community organization and movement focused on spreading empathy, self compassion, and charitable giving. Kindness Circle.

[B]

It was just, like, a crazy coincidence.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they were so kind, and they were, like, hyping me up and cheering me on. And I'm so used to doing things by myself, so it's nice to have, like, supporters physically there.

[A]

Yeah. And then we had Tiffany Xiang, the director of Breaking Idol, coming with her mother, Wendy Tan. She's actually filmed a documentary with her mother as well. And three of my closest friends came. And when we all exited the building afterwards, the Kindness Crew were there and they noticed Jessica. And then one of the leaders of the crew just said, how. Told you how brave you were. Everyone stopped on the sidewalk. I grabbed my phone and started recording.

[B]

There are so many of us out here that are afraid, and because of what you did. Can I hug you? And this is the Kindness Group. Only kindness to you. I think that you guys were here today. Yeah. Thank you.

[A]

Really positive.

[B]

The best group I know. And, girl, I'm that mad black woman. So if you ever need a bodyguard.

[A]

How. How was that?

[B]

So nice. It was very sweet.

[A]

I used to.

[B]

I was afraid to make my identity known for the longest time because I didn't know how people would react. And the amount of support is amazing. I never thought that people would come up to me on the street and say nice things to me. So, yeah, I love those women. I hope I see them again.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I know. They were the sweetest, kindest people.

[A]

Yeah. It was incredible. Well, Jess, it's been an amazing two days. We're about to leave, and you catch your train back east, and I catch my train back west. And I think we'll be seeing each other again later on this year. But thank you again for coming. It's been incredible. I've had a great two days, and we've caught up with some, you know, people from the film and stuff.

[B]

Thank you. I've had so much fun. Yeah. This has been a really fun two days. And normally whenever I talk about this, it's not fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's been nice.

[A]

So thank you to everyone at the Social for making it such a memorable and positive experience. And thanks also to the Kindness Circle for showing up for Jessica. You'll find links to watch our segment on YouTube, the CBC documentary Breaking Idol, our advocacy group, beyond the Verdict, Ca and everything else I mentioned in this little episode in the show notes or visit canadiantruecrime CA I hope you have a great rest of the summer. I'll see you soon with major case updates. Thanks again.

[B]

Sat.