Austin Tedesco on Canal Street Dreams

Summary

Canal Street Dreams – Austin Tedesco on Canal Street Dreams

Hosts: Eddie Huang & Natasha Perrotti
Guest: Austin Tedesco (Writer, Substack Head of Business Development)
Date: August 15, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Eddie and Natasha welcome Austin Tedesco—food writer and Substack executive—onto Canal Street Dreams for a deep dive into food culture, the chaotic joys of restaurant pop-ups, bicoastal restaurant scenes, creative careers, and the evolution of publishing platforms. Through candid, unfiltered banter, they explore what keeps creative people engaged, the realities behind the “chef-driven” restaurant trend, and how platforms like Substack are shifting the landscape for writers, podcasters, and brands.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Pop-Up Restaurant Grind

Early Segment – [00:00–06:54]

• Eddie describes the high-stress, all-hands-on-deck nature of running monthly restaurant pop-ups, likening the unpredictable staff situation to “teaching a brand-new kitchen a whole new cuisine and pace each night.”
  • “A guy will come in at three, we’ll get his mise set up, we’ll show him how everything’s fired...he has like an hour to figure it out and then boom. But the beautiful thing is it’s been working.” (Eddie, [02:00])
• Natasha reflects on customers’ high expectations, observing: “I don’t think a lot of people know that it’s just the guys that work at the flower shop back there.” (Natasha, [01:01])
• Austin relates his own pop-up experience, admitting the learning curve is steep: “I tell people it’s like getting paid to go to culinary school.” (Austin, [07:28])
• Discussion on customer expectations and perfection at pop-ups—with general agreement that diners are right to expect excellence, even in chaotic environments.

2. The Call of Chaos: Why Creative People Gravitate to Certain Work

[05:50–08:08]

• Eddie and Austin agree that food and writing attract people who are “neurotic” or need constant challenge.
  • “It’s gotta feel a little insane or I’m gonna lose it.” (Austin, [05:50])
  • “Writing and restaurants, kitchens attract the same type of, like, moldy person. You know how like mold needs an environment to grow?” (Eddie, [06:45])
• Natasha and Eddie touch on monotony vs. excitement—the regular restaurant grind can get boring, while constant challenge fuels creativity.

3. Getting into Food, Writing, and the Beauty of Entry Points

[07:13–12:14]

• Austin traces his surprise entry into cooking and writing, from emailing favorite restaurants for a chance, to working at Estella, through a year-long stint at the short-lived but beloved Cool World in Brooklyn.
  • “I got into cooking because I get bored super easily, and I lost my mind when I was like 29…” (Austin, [07:31])
  • Notable journey through positions: from “google what is a trail?” to “running sauté in the middle of service.”
  • Relates the specific thrill of service: “That’s a $28 salad…someone’s definitely having it for the first time. And…they don’t know that I made it.” (Austin, [09:08])

4. Chef-Driven vs. “Fake Chef-Driven” Restaurants: The Real Business of Food

[14:42–17:58]

• Eddie challenges the performative aspect of the “chef-driven” trend, asking whether there are fewer truly creative restaurants that are still pushing themselves.
• Austin explains why many restaurants now “dress” like chef-driven spots but choose safe, profitable menus:
  • “If I were opening a restaurant with my own money…I’d never do it. Doomed for failure…martinis, burgers, fries, the things that are going to work. Basically, the Houston’s model is what makes money.” (Austin, [15:33])
• Natasha adds: “Mediocrity is often more rewarded. If you’re just in that soft spot…you’re gonna win.” (Natasha, [16:46])
• Discussion of razor-thin margins discouraging genuine risk-taking versus the greater flexibility of film or writing.

5. The Dining Scene: New York, LA, and Cultural Shifts

[18:03–34:52]

• Conversation pivots to LA vs. New York restaurant cultures. New York is admired for vibrant dining culture and chef-driven scenes. LA is praised for immigrant cuisine but criticized for a lack of creative, chef-centric spots outside established immigrant or legacy places.
  • “In LA, there is just an immense pressure to conform…art does not thrive there.” (Eddie, [30:04])
• Austin notes LA is unmatched for “lunch or immigrant food adventures,” but “get the fuck out of town” for special dinners.
• All discuss how hype cycles, media, and list-driven culture can “suck the life out of a place.”
  • Natasha on a hyped NYC restaurant: “I bring big hater energy. There is not one authentic piece of [Ha’s] in that environment. The food is great. Everything else is cosplay.” ([18:58])*
• Penny (seafood bar) in NYC is praised for authenticity, chill, and excellent cooking.
  • “They’ll make you feel so special…if you want to order three seafood towers for four hours, we got you.” (Austin, [27:21])

6. The Culture of the Modern Kitchen: Managing People and Expectations

[34:27–41:04]

• Eddie contrasts the sharp, direct style of kitchens in London with the gentler, “chiller” New York model, as new cultural norms have shifted.
  • “You have to be very gentle...They call me Chino…I go by Chino, not Chef. Chino no yell, no yell.” (Eddie, [34:56])
• Parenting analogies for leadership—Natasha applies parenting research on tantrums to managing staff: “The most effective way to handle a tantrum is to just, great rock. Okay. And when they’re done: ‘are you done? Anyway, let’s go.’” (Natasha, [39:21])
• Austin: “Being direct with people is really hard…It’s really tough.” ([40:44])
• They agree that clear, direct communication is liberating in both kitchens and life.

7. Substack, Business Development, and the Future for Creatives

[41:28–60:33]

• Austin describes his role as Head of Business Development at Substack, working on sports, podcasts, video, and growth initiatives.
  • “I started overseeing sports. I worked at ESPN…then quickly started doing more in podcasting and video.” (Austin, [41:48])
  • “Our job…is to build the Substack app to be a place where you can grow and run a subscription business you own, no matter what form of media.” ([42:24])
• Newly announced funding round and what it means: “The thing…is think long-term…how do we make this thing as significant and big and powerful as possible?” ([44:46])
• Substack’s edge over Patreon/YouTube:
  • “You can do whatever you want in any medium on a business that you own in full…plugged into a powerful growth engine…algorithm designed to drive subscriptions, rewarding quality.” (Austin, [46:02])
• Strategic advice for creators:
  • Video and collaborative work as top-of-funnel/free; paywalled essays for deeper engagement and subscription revenue.
  • “People pay at scale because they want to be connected to you…it’s a little different. You’re someone people want to be attached to and your community around it.” ([50:41])
• Natasha praises the intimacy and authenticity of Substack over the “corniness” of TikTok: “When you go live on Substack…it really just feels like you’re kicking it with your homies.” ([52:00])

8. Brands on Substack: Risks, Rewards, and Authenticity

[56:43–60:27]

• Eddie shares how collaboration with Places (restaurant loyalty platform) is his most fulfilling brand partnership—minimal interference and true trust from the sponsor.
• Austin offers advice and caution for brands:
  • “Only works if you give creative control to the talent...a branded voice…will get crushed by you.” ([57:58])
• Substack’s ad and brand partnership experimentation—prediction that only authentic, creator-driven brand voices will find success on the platform.
  • “Instagram was very easy for brands to migrate to...Substack is the most difficult for brands to crack. And I like that.” (Eddie, [59:41])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The level of difficulty on a popup is…completely insane.” (Eddie, [04:25])
• “I got bored…those were the best years we ever had. But I wanted a challenge. I wanted to be creative. And this is definitely feeding that muscle.” (Eddie, [05:27])
• “Mediocrity is often more rewarded…you’re gonna win.” (Natasha, [16:46])
• “No one drinks [in LA], so margins are fucked from the start. And the two best…sit down dinner restaurants…are tasting menus that don’t change…how often are you going to go?” (Austin, [30:43])
• “In LA…friends are looked at in strategic accessory ways. Who you are friends with is part of your career there.” (Eddie, [31:14])
• “Being direct with people is really hard…It’s so liberating.” (Natasha & Austin, [41:04])
• “You keep 90% of your subscription revenue...plugged into…one of the most powerful growth engines on the Internet…algorithm designed to drive subscriptions…so it inherently rewards quality.” (Austin, [46:02])
• “If you want to be a writer, you can subscribe to Junot Diaz for $8 and that man’s giving you the sauce.” (Eddie, [54:21])
• “Instagram…brand placement was easy…Substack is the most difficult for brands to crack. And I like that.” (Eddie, [59:41])
• “This has been fantastic. We’ve gone way over…I didn’t even know.” (Eddie, [60:27])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Pop-up restaurant logistics: [00:00–06:54]
• Creative personalities & the search for challenge: [05:50–08:08]
• Austin’s food origin story: [07:13–12:14]
• “Chef-driven” vs. commercialized restaurants: [14:42–17:58]
• NY vs. LA dining and customer culture: [18:03–34:52]
• Kitchen management and parallels to parenting: [34:27–41:04]
• Substack’s growth, strategy, and the future for creators: [41:28–60:33]
• Brand partnerships and platform authenticity: [56:43–60:27]

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a must-listen for anyone curious about the inner workings of creative life, the evolution of food culture on both coasts, and the strategic thinking behind today’s creative platforms. Austin’s perspective—from food writer to tech exec—combined with Eddie and Natasha’s irreverent honesty, offers a compelling, insightful, and often hilarious look into what it takes to make a scene, a kitchen, and a creative enterprise truly work.

Transcript

[Eddie]

Welcome back, Canal Street Dreams. We have another wonderful guest for you. Austin Tedesco, a friend I made on Substack, who happens to work at Substack, but also one of our favorite food writers and just has a lot of interesting thoughts about food, culture, bicoastal living. Welcome to the show.

[Austin Tedesco]

Thanks so much for having me. I'm such a fan of yours and I was so stoked to meet you when I came in for the restaurant Pop up, which I loved.

[Natasha]

And that was a lot of fun.

[Austin Tedesco]

I really appreciate it. So much fun. Crazy, it seems.

[Eddie]

Yes. It's pretty crazy to do a pop up restaurant like every single month for three to four days. Like, it does upend our lives.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah, yeah.

[Natasha]

We added another night now.

[Austin Tedesco]

Oh, really? When's the next one?

[Eddie]

August. I think it's August. Seven through the night. Six, seven, eight, nine. Yes, six. She is correct.

[Austin Tedesco]

I didn't realize you told me after that you were. It makes sense that you're working with the staff here to make sense. But, like, that's crazy to me. Yeah, you should talk about that because.

[Natasha]

I don't think a lot of people know that. It's just the guys that work at the flower shop back there.

[Eddie]

Yeah. Because my crew from Bauhaus, since We closed in 2020 in the pandemic dispersed, one is like a professional rollerblader. Big Chris. Shout out. Big Chris. Another dude like, like, you know, there's. There's a guy that owns Lori Jane now, doing great things, used to cook at Bow House too. He's a chef at Lori Jane. There's another homie from long time ago, Zach, who runs the kitchen at Freeman's. Like, there's Bow House cooks everywhere. But I don't have a squad. So when I came here, I assumed the squad here. And Vlad, the chef, kitchen manager here, great guy, incredible. But it is a lot to teach a kitchen a whole new cuisine.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah. You know, like, and a new pace too, right?

[Eddie]

A new pace. The pace is crazy because they're usually, you know, a la carte. People come in, they drip in throughout the night and, you know, three, four orders at a time. Ours is like seven o', clock, 37 orders.

[Natasha]

And now people are coming early. Do you notice that, like the last dinner, people started coming at like 6:30. They're like, I'm just here early. And I was like, I don't think he's. I don't think he's even taught them how to make the dish yet. I was like, I.

[Austin Tedesco]

When I cooked for a year, we did a Few pop ups. And it was always. We would do brunch first on a Sunday. It was always Sunday. So we'd do the brunch service. You'd get to like, we opened at 5, it'd be 5:20. Like, no one's fired the dish. No one's fired the dish once. It's crazy.

[Eddie]

Yeah, no, ours is. And it sounds insane that Natasha's like, yeah, he hasn't taught them to dish yet. But it's true. Every night we get a new cook that comes in at 3 o' clock from another restaurant. Little ways that they also own in the group. And this group is phenomenal. Phenomenal restaurant group. Dylan, the owner, Dave, Everybody's awesome here, but everyone's like, pooling the resources to make the dinners happen. So a guy will come in at three, we'll get his m set up, we'll show him how everything's fired and. And around like six o', clock, he gets to see how his dishes are fired. So he has like an hour to figure it out and then boom. But the beautiful thing is it's been working.

[Austin Tedesco]

Like, the reviews are great, man. Seriously, like, it was really fucking good. It was funny. On that point. I went to the Thomas Perry Bridges pop up last week and I was talking to my friends who work there. One of my friends does front of house there, and she was like, they put up every dish at 3pm they were on their shit. They were like, they had it ready. We got to taste everything. And I was like, oh, the Brits do it different. This is crazy.

[Eddie]

We did that. We did a tasting for the first month in June. June was our first month.

[Natasha]

We did June. We did a tasting.

[Eddie]

Yes. But then the thing is, is that since our staff revolves literally every night, we were like, wait, we can't do a tasting every single night. So it's just the one person who comes in every night that is different. That person gets like an orientation and then, yeah, we go.

[Austin Tedesco]

I think this thing people don't realize when they sit down to eat, right? They probably. I'm sure most people who sit down to eat, even if they're like, oh, it's a pop up, they're like, you've made that dish. The person cooking it has made that dish 12 times. They seasoned it. They have no idea.

[Eddie]

The. Yeah, the expectation is, I paid this money and this should be a perfect restaurant experience. And I actually think that is correct.

[Austin Tedesco]

I agree, I agree, I agree. Yeah.

[Eddie]

Like, I got to hit that standard. Which we have. Like, luckily, we have by like, Breaking our backs. But the level of difficulty on a popup is. Is completely insane.

[Natasha]

Yeah, but I think that's kind of. I mean, is it fun for you to have that challenge every night versus you're just in your restaurant with your crew, with your guys?

[Austin Tedesco]

It.

[Natasha]

Things go off without a hitch. Like, is it more exciting for you back there?

[Eddie]

I'm. I cannot lie. I think I do everything this way. Like, our wedding was, like, all right. Getting married next week, you know, Was.

[Austin Tedesco]

That fun for you?

[Natasha]

I mean, I didn't. I ran away. I, like, went to go high. I was like, I'm not doing this anymore. But I think the next one will be. We'll do it like the Brits.

[Eddie]

I enjoy a restaurant. Like, I enjoyed Bauhaus just being so locked in for so many years. And, like, when we ran a new dish at Bauhaus, it was so easy, because same cooks for many, many, many years, and we just. We knew everything. But I will say, I got bored.

[Austin Tedesco]

Totally.

[Eddie]

I got bored going into the restaurant. I started going in less and less. Around, like, the sixth or seventh year, like, around 2015, I think I just started to lose interest, honestly. And it was locked in. Those were the best years we ever had. But I wanted a challenge. I wanted to be creative. And this is definitely feeding that muscle.

[Austin Tedesco]

I mean, that's why you people get into this field, because they can't do anything else. It's the same thing, I think, for the. Your. Your creative stuff in film and writing, too. Right? And it's like you. It. Actually, the field doesn't attract people who are like, let me come in and do the same thing every day. It's like, I gotta be challenged. I gotta. It's gotta feel a little insane or I'm gonna lose it. I'm move on to the next thing.

[Eddie]

Yeah. I mean, a lot of people come to food and restaurants after, like, being addicts or being convicts or, like, just not fitting in anywhere, you know? And, um, it does feed that type of person with that type of background.

[Austin Tedesco]

I didn't know until I started working in kitchens that there are, like, experts who are like, I'm. I help you open. Like, I'm here. I'm a friend. I'm an expert. I'm here for, like, eight weeks max. I help develop the menu. I help get your system done, and then I move on to the next place because all I need is that rush. And I was like, that's cool. I was like, if I had any level of skill, I would do that myself too. Yeah.

[Eddie]

Yeah. And what's funny is, too, I think writing and the restaurants, kitchens attract the same type of, like, moldy person.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

You know. You know how, like, mold needs an environment to grow. I think writers and, like, cooks, there's just like, an attraction to the kitchen. Like, tons of writers just, like, hang out at restaurants. I know writers used to just park their ass at Bauhaus every day and, like, write their novels or write their books. And, like, how did you come to it?

[Austin Tedesco]

How did I come to cooking?

[Eddie]

Yeah, cooking and writing and stuff.

[Austin Tedesco]

Uh, I still don't really think of myself as a. As a writer. Like, the. The substack project started as, like, a bit for me to learn the product as someone who works there, and then I started to really like it. I.

[Eddie]

It's pretty good, man.

[Natasha]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

I really like your writing.

[Austin Tedesco]

I appreciate that. I got into cooking because I, like, you get bored super easily, and I lost my mind when I was, like, 29. I moved from LA to New York, and I was just like, I'm going to. I going to do this. I was working for a tech company that kind of, like, didn't pay attention to what I was doing. Like, I could. I could work like, five hours a week. And they were like, great job. And so I emailed all my favorite restaurants and was like, I want to work here. And it, like, set me down that path. And I did it for a. I did it for a year for, like, 60 hours a week. It was like, I tell people it's like getting paid to go to culinary school.

[Eddie]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, that's 60 hours is. That's tough. That's tough. I mean, normal, but tough. Where were you working?

[Austin Tedesco]

The first time I ever cooked in a kitchen was a Friday night at Estella. They were like, come in for a trail.

[Eddie]

Oh, with Ignacio?

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah, with Ignacio. I went in. I. I mean, it's the kind of thing, like, I emailed. I mean, emailed the dudes at Wild Air, the dudes at Hearts. I was like, I want to. If I'm going to do this, I want to work at a place I actually like.

[Natasha]

Yeah.

[Austin Tedesco]

And they. They emailed me back to come in at Estella at, like. They were like, come in at three for a trail. And so I'm sitting there. I'm like a fucking remote tech worker. I'm like, googling, like, what is a trail? What do chefs wear? I'm like, only ever. Like, I've only ever, like, cooked from cookbooks. And I have this kind of, like, maniacal, competitive Energy. That's like, I'll try. I'll figure it out. I'll try it. I did some prep. We did family meal. I'm, like, watching. And then someone. I think someone had called out that. That night, last minute. So they usually on a Friday night of salad, they have two people on the cold side. They only had, like, one person working. And someone looks at me. They had showed me how to plate that endive salad. And someone looks at me, and they're like, can you. Can you do four endive salads? And I did want. I did them. The sous chef tasted it, and he was like, that's great. And he sent it out, and I was like, fuck. That's like. That's a $28 salad. That's, like, one of the best dishes in New York. Some doofus in the dining room is definitely having it for the first time. And. And they didn't. They don't know that I made it.

[Eddie]

They send a lot out from the cold side, too. Does that ooni dish come out the cold side?

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah. The tuna right now, the steak tartare oysters. I mean, I like the. I think one of the biggest rushes I've ever had in my life was they got slammed on oysters. I've shucked oysters for most of my life. Like, I feel confident that I can shuck oysters, but they asked me if I could, and I was like, of course I'm stammering. I'm like, I don't know if I can do, like. I don't know if I'll do it like you do it, but I can, like, open an oyster, and they go for it, and I like. I, like, fucking perfectly pop one, and I, like, put it on there. It feels really good. And I'm like, oh, I'm good at this. And then the rest of the night.

[Eddie]

Then you stabbed yourself the rest of the night.

[Austin Tedesco]

I didn't get one right. Every single one. I, like, stabbed myself or I fucked it up. And they were like, this dude. They were like, this dude doesn't do oysters anymore. Yeah, salads for you, bro.

[Eddie]

Oysters is fucking tough, man.

[Austin Tedesco]

Crazy.

[Eddie]

You need 10,000 hours.

[Austin Tedesco]

I was going to say, why were.

[Natasha]

You shucking oysters most of your life, by the way?

[Austin Tedesco]

Oh, just for fun. Just like, I lived. I lived in New England.

[Eddie]

Look at his jacket.

[Austin Tedesco]

Sharks, oysters.

[Natasha]

Well, no, I'm asking because I'm like, where in New England did you live?

[Austin Tedesco]

So I'm Austin from Austin, unfortunately.

[Natasha]

Austin from Boston or Austin?

[Austin Tedesco]

Austin from Austin, Texas.

[Natasha]

Okay.

[Austin Tedesco]

And then I moved to New England for college. I went to school at Boston College.

[Natasha]

Okay, cool. So you're just shucking or.

[Austin Tedesco]

And then stuck around for a big, big fan of like the Island Creek guys and would just like. When I was teaching myself how to cook, that was a thing I wanted to learn how to do.

[Eddie]

Funny enough. We were in Boston in the North Shore for the last two weeks and I. You were going to be on the show and we've like, recent friends. I did see the name Tedesco, like everywhere.

[Austin Tedesco]

Oh, there's the Tedesco convenience store. Yeah, yeah. It's the Italian name for German. Those are my. Those are my guys.

[Eddie]

Oh, word.

[Austin Tedesco]

Oh, okay.

[Eddie]

Yeah, I was like, Tedesco. I was like, station too.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah, I think. Oh, yeah. There's like Tedeschi. There's the Tedeschi Trucks band. There's a bunch of stuff. So, yeah, I did that. I did the Estella thing and then I think I was only supposed to stay for a bit, but they like, let me stay all night. It was the most fun I'd ever had. I talked to the person, like the chef running the kitchen at the time. He offered me a job as a line cook. And then understandably, they ghosted me. I was like, hey, I'm ready to start. And they never responded, I think because they found anyone more qualified than me. But I got hooked. And so then I ended up at Cool World, one of the worst named restaurants of all time with Q, who I'm sure you know. And I stayed there for a year and it was like my. My fucking home. It was the best.

[Eddie]

I love that word. Is the. Are they still. I think they.

[Austin Tedesco]

No, no, no. I basically was there for the one year run. It's now the Brooklyn outpost of Rays.

[Eddie]

That's right.

[Austin Tedesco]

And Q is at demo. And yeah, they're like, it's weird. Like, I did it for a year and there's a lot of them are still like, feel like my closest friends. Because I was like, oh. You know, especially as like a remote tech worker. It's like nothing bonds you with like being in a kitchen with people.

[Eddie]

Yeah. I remember when Cool World came out and it was a genre of restaurant. I would say, like the name, the brand, not the food necessarily.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

But the way it was presented, like almost like a retail.

[Austin Tedesco]

It looked kind of Green River Project, like, put it together. The Bodhi, the River crew. In terms of the design. I just think when you have that name, you're doomed from the start. Honestly. I like it. I Think of it with Substack, too. Like, there's a. There's a word of mouth value in the name. You have to be able to say. It's like, you know, feed Me is really good because Emily Sundberg is really good, but it helps me. Like, you got to read Feed Me. You got it. Same thing for, like, you got to go to Haas, you got to go to Penny, you got to go to Cool World. Like, sucks like, you're fucked from the start.

[Eddie]

Yeah, you are.

[Natasha]

Unfortunately. There's something so attractive to it to me. I'm like, I want to go to Cool.

[Austin Tedesco]

You want to go to Cool World right now?

[Natasha]

I want to live in Cool.

[Austin Tedesco]

You want drinks and fries at Cool World? Yeah. I just really also, like, you didn't come, so.

[Eddie]

So, I mean, I missed that era of New York. I was not in town for Cool World, but I just related it to that movie with Brad Pitt and Michelle Pfeiffer.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah, I. I don't know if it was that or if it was something else. I didn't. I didn't ask, but.

[Eddie]

But no, that would. It's just when you say you're cool, you're kind of fucked.

[Austin Tedesco]

Everyone totally fucked.

[Eddie]

Everyone wants to be like, well, fuck you.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah, it was one of those things where I would, like, I would tell people for the year, like, what do you do? And I wasn't like. I was like, oh, I can say I'm a cook now. I don't have to say that. I do, like, product marketing for a tech company. I was like, I'm a cook. And they're like, where? And I was like, in Brooklyn. And they're. And I was like. I was like, Greenpoint. I was like, cool. Cool World. Like, yeah, not. But I mean, it was the cw. The cw. You know, that actually might have been better. I don't know. So I did that, and I did the thing that I. Again, I didn't know how any of this worked, but I did the thing where I was like, okay, I start off on the cold station. I get good enough at that. Or they get desperate enough that they let me run the fryer, and then they let me run plancha. And then eventually working saute in the middle of service. Yeah. Like, the most. Most fun I've ever had. I told the people at subsec. I was like, this is my number two favorite job. Cooking. Cooking number one.

[Eddie]

It was. It was a very. I mean, they had challenging food at Cool World, like, just from looking at it from the Internet. I was like, oh, it's like very chef driven. You're very going for it. And I think there's that, like, style of restaurant now. The ones that you chose, Estella Wildair. What was the third?

[Austin Tedesco]

Like the Hearts Servo.

[Eddie]

Hearts. Yeah, yeah. Nick Perkins.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

Those are truly chef driven restaurants. Like, those people are challenging themselves every single night, grinding it out. Like, we love your bar. We mentioned it all the time.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah, I went last week after you wrote about it. It was great.

[Eddie]

Word. Yeah. Incredible. Incredible. But do you feel like in the restaurant culture now there are a lot of these, like, bigger money restaurants that, you know, they, they have the trappings and like the clothes or the outfit of a chef driven restaurant, but they're not pushing themselves in that way.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah, because it's the right business decision. Right. Like I, I wrote about this the other week. Like, if, if I were opening a restaurant with my own money, one, I would never do it. I'd be like, doom. Doom for failure. You're gonna run stuff in the ground. If I was gonna do it, it's like, okay, martinis, burgers, fries, the things that are going to work. Basically, the Houston's model is what makes money. And then. Yeah, it's like, how do you navigate showing that you have a pov, that it will be a kind of draw because doing something. I think I went last weekend. I think Hags is one of the most underrated restaurants in the city. I think Telly and Camille are fucking stars and they have challenging food. A really interesting point of view. And I think for that reason, it's like, it's, it's not a destination. People don't talk about it. I think they do well in their community. But when you operate that way, you, you lower your ceiling on revenue in a, in a, like in a space where the margins are fucking tiny. It makes no sense from a business perspective.

[Eddie]

Yeah, I do agree with you. The most popular genre of restaurant now is the fake chef driven Houston.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yes, exactly.

[Natasha]

Well, we talk about this all the time. It's like mediocrity is often more rewarded. Like if you're just in that soft spot of like, this is cool for everybody and it's not that challenging. You're gonna win.

[Austin Tedesco]

You're gonna win. And it's. I think it's really interesting in food as opposed to, like, as opposed to like film. Right. We're in food because the, again, because the margins are so tight, it's so much harder to take a sort of risk than in a different industry where, like, it's still very Tough in film to take a risk, but the, the risk reward at least has like a greater chance of exceeding that. Like, you know, it's not like indie film is in an incredible state, but I think people can do more. There's like backers like A24 and Neon that help you do more there, but in food, it's just like there's, there's like, what? Why would you do it this way? Why would you. In the New York. Why would you do it this way? I think we're experiencing this in la where it's so hard to open a small business at all. Especially a restaurant that like. The list of actually interesting chef driven restaurants in LA that are good and thriving in the past six months is like Baby Bistro, which I love. And that's, that's maybe it.

[Eddie]

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's really. There's, there's not much out there.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

Like, without talking any shit, there's just not much out there.

[Austin Tedesco]

The system doesn't allow there to be. I think in a lot of ways more than anything. Yeah.

[Eddie]

Yeah. Because usually in a neighborhood in la, you don't have that critical mass of people that is that into food in this like neurotic, kind of spectrumy way that we're into food. You get people like Phil Rosenthal type, you know what I mean? Not to like bash homie. Yeah, feed me Phil type of foodies that are like, oh my God, they got bagels here.

[Natasha]

You know, it's like cafe dialogue. It's incredible.

[Austin Tedesco]

Sour, no bagel. We were talking about this. I went to, I went to HA's for the first time on Wednesday. I thought the food was fucking amazing. It was like every dish a. A minus. At worst. Absolutely every single dish. I was like, incredible. And I'm, I like, we, we did the thing where like I had some time off at work. So we got there like 5:15. We sat right at 5:30. We probably left like right before 7:30. And I was like, this was one of the most sterile dinners I've ever had.

[Natasha]

Thank you. Can I talk my shit?

[Austin Tedesco]

Talk your shit and then I'll. I'll finish my podcast.

[Natasha]

So when you came for the dinner, I was just like, I bring big hater energy. There is not one authentic piece of Hawes in that environment. The food is great. Everything else is cosplay. It's a costume. It's an outfit that you can try on and put on. And it sucks to dine there.

[Austin Tedesco]

And my thing is that I don't think it's Them. I think it's the kind of thing you're describing where it's like, okay, there's. And this is not to like. It's not to shit on the publication, but it's like infatuation. New York Times list culture to me that fills the room in a way that people are like, I'm box checking for Instagram. I'm here to say I was here. I'm throwing up the food so I can post about it. And the thing that I felt the most. And again, my mom went there once. I don't know those people, but I have a ton of respect for the people who run that place. They have this. There's a thing that I think you've seen before with friends whose spots get in this moment. They're like, bracing. They're like shell shocked. They're like, I know the people who are gonna show up are gonna be assholes. I know they're going to, like, ask for mods we won't do. And they're like. Because they're just trying to survive and because the crowd is a little torched. If you're in there, you're like, you don't want. You can't stay for three hours. And you never would want to.

[Natasha]

No.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Natasha]

You wouldn't want to.

[Eddie]

No. And that's the thing is, like, there was a guy and the crowd there, it's like HQ for Normans. There was a really great article by this guy Clive, like, a couple weeks ago that was like, the new unlocked character of this generation is Normans, which is like anthropomorphic T shirts and like, you know, big sandwiches. Like that crowd with like the.

[Austin Tedesco]

The.

[Eddie]

The kind of like, limited tote bag guy.

[Natasha]

Formative literature. Like, I'm reading a book at Ha.

[Eddie]

Some of writing next to us, like in calligraphy.

[Austin Tedesco]

And I think it's like.

[Eddie]

But that's not the fault of the restaurant tour, I got to say.

[Natasha]

And that's.

[Austin Tedesco]

That's the thing I was feeling. I was like, everyone here has. They. They've done it. They did everything they should have done perfectly right. The space is like, right. It's well designed. I can tell everyone there is like, front and back of house. A fucking pro.

[Natasha]

Yeah.

[Austin Tedesco]

And there's times I saw this happen. I was thinking of, like, other. Other comps for this. And I remember when. When, like, Found Oyster was the hottest place in la.

[Natasha]

Yeah.

[Austin Tedesco]

And I could see them just like, holding on for dear life to try to preserve some magic when it's just like packed out there and everyone's everyone know how to behave?

[Natasha]

Yeah. Do you think that the. I guess the clientele that comes in that, like, sucks the life out of a place in a way.

[Austin Tedesco]

And, like, I think. I think especially for this kind of thing that's like, oh, it's the hottest place imaginable. It's number six on the New York Times list. Everyone says I have to go.

[Natasha]

Yeah.

[Austin Tedesco]

There's, like, what I. I associate it also with more like, like, belly culture of, like, I got my list. I'm gonna check it off.

[Natasha]

Yeah.

[Austin Tedesco]

That, like, you get. You get overwhelmed by that in the environment. That there's, like, probably, I think nothing you can do unless you just want to just, like, reserve half the tables for your friends. Like, I don't know what else to do. How do you facilitate Rachel?

[Eddie]

I was trying very hard. There was people with, like, Ellen DeGeneres t shirt. I was just like, everything is very, very intentional here. Like, everyone had, like, their best vintage T shirt on.

[Natasha]

Yes.

[Eddie]

I was fucking crying. But, like, I can't hate. Cause, like, I look at homie and I'm just like, we could be brothers. Do you know what I mean? He's going jade. He's going Rolex datejust.

[Natasha]

I'm just like, he's definitely g. I.

[Austin Tedesco]

Would never argue that I'm anything more than, like, a 5% adjustment from whatever you're describing if I. If at all. Right.

[Eddie]

Yeah.

[Austin Tedesco]

But it's a. It's a different vibe than what you feel. Places and I. I've written about this before. Like, I. Very openly. If I'm, like, looking at how much I like a place, it's like, it's like 40% vibe, experience, 35% food.

[Natasha]

I agree.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Natasha]

If I go, especially a place like Haas, I will say respect to them. The food is incredible. What they're doing is incredible. My thing was, is if I ever came back, I'd sit outside. I don't want to go inside. And for me, if I'm going to go to dinner, especially at a place where, like, I have to pull up before it opens and wait in line, which is cool. I want to sit there, and I want to feel good. I want to feel the restaurant. I want to feel like I'm in an environment that is feeding me in a way that also. The food is feeding me. I didn't feel that there. And, yeah, that's just my take.

[Austin Tedesco]

But I don't. I don't spend more than $100 a person to eat outside. That's another hard, hard and fast rule. Of mine. I can't do it. It feels like you're getting like. Like the. The. The thing that drives me the most nuts is when people say they. They, like, had a great dinner at Lilia and they ate in that little triangle, and I'm like, bro, you got delivery to a parking lot. Are you. Are you kidding me?

[Eddie]

Yeah. I will say that The. The. What I really admire about Haas is the skill level.

[Austin Tedesco]

It's crazy.

[Eddie]

Like, no, the level of difficulty of what Anthony and his wife are doing there is insane. To cook out of there. Like that pork chop they fire. I was like, yo, are you. You firing that out of the oven? He's like, yeah, we, like, you know, par. Grill it, par Sear it for service, and then we gotta, like, fire it out of the oven. He's just has it dialed, and he's changing the menu. And I'm very impressed by the skill level. But culturally, there were things that. Like, as an older gentleman in restaurant culture, I've seen, like, I heard the Twin Peaks theme song. I wouldn't play the Twin Peaks theme song in a dining room because that was Danny Bowen song. Do you know what I mean? Danny Bowen used to play that in the bathroom on a loop at Mission Chinese. I'm like, that's somebody else's song. In a way. I'm weird. I'm weird like that, right? It'd be like. I think it was like Chang had a photo of Andre Agassi in his bathroom for a while. I wouldn't. I wouldn't touch it. Right?

[Austin Tedesco]

Nothing's crazier to me than people opening a restaurant and hiring consultants to run the playlist. It's like, bro, why'd you open a restaurant? Yeah. To me, that's like, so much of the pill. You cure it, you create the vibe.

[Eddie]

And the curation of it in the cookbooks. It's just like, I've seen this restaurant before. That was the only thing that annoyed me. I was like, you're cooking phenomenal. Unstoppable. Highest level of difficulty, I think, in a kitchen in New York right now.

[Austin Tedesco]

Totally agree. And I. To me, like, the. Any. Anything I felt in the issue was, like, they've been overcome by the food culture in New York, by the media culture in New York.

[Eddie]

It's too much in their head. Like, you can see they're aware, and, like, you can see they've consumed.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah. Like, I like the. The. The hostess came out to start, like, checking people in to be like, who's going to table? And I was like, oh, you're ready for battle. You're like. You're approaching this. Of, like, you're looking at me like, you better not fuck around. Like, you're here to eat and leave. And she didn't say that, but I was like, I can tell that you've been so, like, my read was like, people don't know how to behave here. You're acting like people don't know how to behave here, because they don't. And that's, like. You feel that when you're there.

[Eddie]

Yeah. No, it's definitely, like, people checking off checklists of, like, identity, aesthetic, experience. I am excited to see what their next restaurant is like, opening a new one. And I'm like, would love to see your voice.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

You know, like, in the aesthetic of the room.

[Austin Tedesco]

Totally.

[Eddie]

And because that's a part of being a chef.

[Natasha]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

It's like, what's in your head?

[Austin Tedesco]

Huge part.

[Natasha]

Yeah.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Natasha]

I think that's the part that's missing for me, but I am excited.

[Eddie]

Yeah. Then on the flip side, another restaurant all three of us have been, too. Penny, I think, actually is pumping out the best seafood in the city.

[Austin Tedesco]

No question.

[Natasha]

Yeah.

[Austin Tedesco]

To me.

[Eddie]

No question. Best seafood, best dishes. Like, very imaginative. But in this funny way, if they would just play the music that's in the bathroom.

[Natasha]

We. I literally talked all my shit to him already. But if they just put blue lighting and played the bathroom, like, metal in the whole restaurant, it would make so much more sense, and it would just be a more enjoyable experience.

[Austin Tedesco]

I have no notes on Penny. I'm all the way in the bag for Penny, I guess. I like. I think there's even the dining room. Yeah. Because I think there's a thing I associate with it that's like, oh, this is. They've taken every B minus New England oyster bar that has basically that same design that. That, like, railroad design, and they've just made it in A plus. It's like a play on a thing. I know. And I also. From, like, a. We talked about this. The staff and the. Both the front and back of the house, and they interact with you. They're the coolest people there. Coolest people in the world.

[Eddie]

The best cooks.

[Austin Tedesco]

The best cooks. And they're so chill. They'll, like. They'll make you feel so special when you're there. They're like, we're just gonna hang out. They're like, if you want to order three seafood towers for the next four hours, we got you.

[Eddie]

Yeah. And I truly like watching them work, too. I told her after. I was like, yo, this is white boy skater omakase.

[Austin Tedesco]

Hell, yeah.

[Eddie]

You know, like, these are the homies you chill with.

[Austin Tedesco]

In time, only you would stuff a squid like this. My man. Yeah.

[Eddie]

I love their cooks. The best food. My. My best food meal in the city. Penny. But I talked. I became friends with one of the investors there, and he was telling me the chef's music is in the bathroom and the manager music is in the. And I was like, that makes sense. I was like, let the chef cook.

[Natasha]

Let him cook.

[Eddie]

Yeah, put the manager in the bathroom.

[Natasha]

I love the bathroom.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Natasha]

I would just sit in the bathroom. Bring the seafood tower to the bathroom.

[Austin Tedesco]

Bring me. Yeah, yeah, bring me. Also, I will say the salad is crazy. Like, it's just like that salad, cheese and dressing. One of the best salads in New York.

[Natasha]

The tuna carpaccio was my taste.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Natasha]

I was like, I could have had, like, four of those just sitting.

[Austin Tedesco]

And then there's. We were talking about L. A. The other thing about L. A that even I feel is, like, the. The whole appeal of LA is that everything's easy and there's nothing to do. Like, there's no. And it's also, like, if you are even moderately okay at cooking, you're like, why. Why the hell would I go out? And it makes it like, I know, I know you all spend a lot of time there. It's. It's a very weird, weird dining out restaurant moment right now.

[Eddie]

For that reason, it's very odd. The restaurants in LA I liked was if we drove to another neighborhood for immigrant food. Glendale, Persian food, Chinese food, sgv, Mexican food, Inglewood, things like that. Or like, old establishment restaurants that are tried and true, Like Michael's of Santa Monica with, like, they have three original Egan Shields in there.

[Natasha]

It's just like, yeah, Dear John's, Musso's.

[Eddie]

Yeah, we would do those. The newer generation, it's the. If you're from New York or you travel around the world. Those ideas are so tired. Yeah, yeah.

[Natasha]

I mean, they just, like, got a Chipriani. I was like, why does Ellie need a chipriani? Like, I was like, this is great because it's like, actually a restaurant I want to eat at. But why the fuck do we need one in L. A?

[Austin Tedesco]

We don't. I think I. The thing I mostly write about and I think the thing I know that I like more than anything is that, like, oh, this is, like, a special dinner, dining out experience for all these places we've been, like, describing in New York. And I do think, I think you've said this on the pod too. It's like in L. A when it comes to what you're describing, like, like lunch or like, I'm going to go drive somewhere and like, just eat the food. LA is very tough to beat for any city in the world, for a bunch of different cuisines. And when it's like, I want to have a dinner with four friends for my birthday, it's like, get the fuck out of town. Where you can't go.

[Natasha]

Yeah, like, where do you go?

[Eddie]

I feel for any art, whether you're a fine artist, a writer, a director, chef. In LA there is just an immense pressure to conform because most people that have money in that city are trying to hit the algorithm or hit the matrix to scale something. That is what their brains are rewarded for in that city. So art does not thrive there, like just moving back like six months ago. We talk about it all the time. I feel human again because people aren't like, oh, but half of America won't understand what you just said. I was like, I don't need half of America. I just need a five block radius around this restaurant to understand.

[Austin Tedesco]

Hell yeah. There's. The other things I feel that are happening are like one, no one drinks. So margins are fucked from the start. Larger OIC culture, I think so, like the, the, that's true. Like just the propensity to dine out is like a little, a little less. And then the, the two best, like, I can't believe how good this is. Sit down. Dinner restaurants in la, I think undeniably are Cato and Baru. And they're two tasting menus that don't change over that much. Like, how often are you going to, Are you going to go, yeah.

[Eddie]

And I think the other thing about LA that just kills dining and friendship culture generally is that friends are looked at in strategic accessory ways. Like who you are friends with is part of your career in la, which to me was insane to realize people thought that way. And you sit down, if you're in a bar and you start to talk to people randomly, people think you're weird and they're like, wait, what do you do? Because I need to make sure we have.

[Austin Tedesco]

It depends on where you are. I feel like I've only ever experienced.

[Eddie]

East side is cool.

[Austin Tedesco]

I was like, I've only ever experienced LA as someone who's not in the Hollywood industry. It's like, okay, I have friends who just do whatever or they're in food. And when you're not in that cycle. Like, I'm sure it's impossible for you to avoid. It's like, oh, the whole appeal of this place is, like, happiness and apathy. It's the best shit really works.

[Natasha]

Before I was in a relationship with him, the LA that I experienced was so different, and I liked it. And then I moved and we were together and I was like, this place sucks.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah, that'll kill you.

[Natasha]

I was like, this is the worst.

[Eddie]

I love living in Mid City. Like, Mid City was my happy time in la. And, you know, when I was hanging out more in Silver Lake, Los Feliz, with the homies because I live downtown. That was nice. But, man, going west, it's, It's. It's rough out there.

[Austin Tedesco]

I don't. I don't go west of Western if I can help it, bro. Only. Only if I have a meeting.

[Eddie]

That was our biggest mistake.

[Natasha]

I mean, it was beautiful and it was, like, really relaxing most of the time, but there was just solitude. Like, there was.

[Austin Tedesco]

No, you could not. I mean, I'm there for life. Like, it feels like home to me because I have this setup that I have.

[Eddie]

Where do you live out there.

[Austin Tedesco]

And technically in Frogtown, like, right behind Frog Park. Like, behind Dodger Stadium. Like, accessibility to all of the places you're. You're mentioning sometimes I still go to.

[Natasha]

There's a lot of, like, restaurants popping up in Frogtown now. Right.

[Austin Tedesco]

Like, a lot of spots I like. I cook, like, 90% of my meals.

[Eddie]

And that is the positive in LA.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah. It's also kitchen. The. The biggest appeal of LA to me is like, okay, it's Sunday. I'm going to go to six markets and, like, three grocery stores. And this is going to be my. This is like my whole activity for the day in the car in a way that you can't do here.

[Natasha]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

I cooked so much in L. A.

[Natasha]

At home every day. I feel we cooked something every day. One meal at least.

[Eddie]

Yeah. So much. It was just really nice to be able to eat exactly what you want.

[Austin Tedesco]

With the best ingredients. Yeah. And you actually space and you have a nice kitchen to cook in.

[Eddie]

But here you get dining culture. You get to be outside, you get to talk to a random person on a stool and. And you catch the vibe here. So I. I do. Really. We talked about it with Jay Lee too. Is just like, dining culture here is superior. I love London too. London is fantastic to go to.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah, I. When I have eaten out in London, the thing I feel also is like, oh, every cook back there is better than every cook. And the restaurants I'm in in America, it's, like, just so much more dialed in. I have. I have a thing that I typically avoid ordering entrees because I'm like, you start eating it, and you're like, I could have roasted this chicken at home. Are you kidding me? And they get. They get really creative about entrees in London. They execute really well. I'm fully on board with that.

[Eddie]

I will say I only worked in one kitchen in London, and I'm only back in one kitchen in New York. But just comparing those two kitchens, the intensity of the cooks in London was so much higher, and the acceptability to be like, you fucked that up. Fix it. You're able to do in London, in New York right now, in this one kitchen I work in, I. Even with cooks not from America, I have to be very gentle.

[Austin Tedesco]

Hey, what makes you feel that way that you can't be direct? Because you.

[Eddie]

The first night I was here, we had a dish that the sauce needed to be dotted on the lobster. Yeah, Right. And the guy was doing the squiggly sauce on a plate, and I was like, dot, dot. And he kept going squiggly. I was like, no, no, refire, dot. And he kept doing it like this. And I. I was like.it and I yelled. I was like, dot, dot. Because it was the second time he'd fired the dish, and he was going to Jackson Pollock it again. And the cook next to him was like, hey, hey, hey, Chino. They call me Chino. I don't go by Chef. I go by Chino. It would Chino no yell. No yell. And I was like, but he's fucked this dish up twice. They're like, okay, you just say. And we do it right. I'm like, but I did just.

[Austin Tedesco]

You don't.

[Eddie]

Yeah, again. So we had to fire the third time. And then they were like, see? We got it. And I was like, that standard is just not okay.

[Austin Tedesco]

Again, my. I don't have the volume of experience in the industry that you do. But the thing actually that I loved the most about working in the kitchen, after coming from corporate America, was that was. And it was the thing I appreciated in the kitchen I worked in. Literally never personal. It was never like, oh, you little bitches. It was just like, it's wrong. Fix it. It's wrong. Fire it again. And it's like, you're gonna fail. Your station is going down. You're gonna fail. It's gonna be on you. You're gonna let everyone that's in here down. And we're gonna be really direct. And I was like, oh, no. I've worked in corporate America my whole career. No one's ever been directing. Everyone's always been like, oh, we would love if you focused on these improvement areas, maybe, bro.

[Eddie]

And also because they're used to, like, you know, a few tickets at a time.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

I would say to each station, don't look at the tickets. You're firing five shrimp. You're firing three scallops.

[Austin Tedesco]

You're in control.

[Eddie]

I'm in control. I got it. And they're like, no, chino. We only do three tables at a time. I was like, you have 17 tables all in right now. You got to listen to me go. And the shrimp. The prawn on the grill takes the longest.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

It's fired on binchotan charcoal. That dish takes probably six minutes to fire. I was like, five orders, go. Because I see them on all these.

[Austin Tedesco]

Days, you see the whole board.

[Eddie]

And homie was like, no, it's on this three. There's only one order. And I was like, brother, if you don't fire five shrimp right now, you're going to kill yourself. It's not even me.

[Austin Tedesco]

Right?

[Eddie]

You are gonna die.

[Austin Tedesco]

Well, that's what I meant when I was like, oh, this is understandable, but crazy that you're kind of like, inheriting a kitchen. Because the thing that you. You can't do when you do that is you can't be like, this is my kitchen. I'm establishing a standard. And the standard is that, like, I'm. I'm running expo. I'm in charge.

[Natasha]

Yeah.

[Austin Tedesco]

You listen. Right? You just gotta. They have like, no, we do it this way.

[Eddie]

But. Yeah, but. Yeah. And my dad always taught me, adopt local culture totally wherever you're at.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah. And that's the only way to survive.

[Eddie]

Only way to survive. And it has taught me something I watched Natasha learn for the last two years. As a mother, she doesn't yell at our son. Never. Right. I just. I. Very rare. If she yells, she yells into the wall, like, away from him. And it's like. But it's not.

[Natasha]

It's very much.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

It's not at him. And because the culture here is to just, like, kind of cruise.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

And be cool with stuff, I have had to just be like, like, so what do you.

[Austin Tedesco]

What do you do? How do you. How do you handle it?

[Eddie]

What I did was I came up with an amuse bouche, watermelon salad. So when they are not firing at the Pace, I want to fire. I send out a watermelon salad to the table because I'm like, okay, I can get. Once we get to the mains, we're good. It's when people are in a restaurant, they want to put something in their bodies within the first 15 minutes. I think that is realistic. You're gonna get your drink within five to seven minutes, and you should have food in your body within 15. So when I see them stuck on, like, the starter first course on the first seven to 10 tables, I fire the amuse bouche to the other seven tables that are waiting. So then, you know, I'm in contact with you. The chef knows you're here. I'm feeding you. And that has helped me get through it.

[Austin Tedesco]

Okay, so you. How do you handle it as a father? That's what I'm curious about.

[Eddie]

Oh, as a father?

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eddie]

I'm. I think. Okay. So with my son, when he's like, screaming in my face, I will just, like, look at him and have the same monotone. No, no.

[Austin Tedesco]

Does that work?

[Natasha]

No. Yeah, that's how you're supposed to handle. Well, I don't know. With everything that I've read, the most effective way to handle a tantrum is to almost like, great rock. You're just like, okay. And then when they're done, it's like, are you done anyways? Let's go. Like, then they don't. Then they learn there's no reaction. Yeah, ye kind of funny. And that's like how I handle everything in life now. If somebody's, like, doing something crazy, I'm just like, I'm going to let you do that, and then we'll be done, and then we can move on.

[Eddie]

And as a father, your son kind of responds to you physically, like, a bit more than the. At least our son, I will say. So when it gets extremely bad and he's yelling out of me super loud. Yeah, he beats the out. When he's super, super loud, I will just forehead the forehead. And I'm just like, brother, no, no, no. And it's like by osmosis, we are gonna do this together.

[Austin Tedesco]

Cool.

[Natasha]

You know what's cool, though? I will say the more words he's able to say and, like, sentences he's able to string along, the less he does that. I think it's a frustration things for.

[Eddie]

A lot of kids.

[Natasha]

It's like if they. They don't have the words to say. And I also think that this could be applicable to, like, in the kitchen or in the Corporate world. I feel like when people can't say the thing that they want to say directly, that's the frustrating part. And that's why, like, the kitchen stuff is do, do yell. And it's like, no, no, I'm going to yell at you. But like, now that you can say what you want to say, it goes smoother.

[Austin Tedesco]

People have, I mean, dotting it.

[Eddie]

He. He didn't understand what is language.

[Austin Tedesco]

He was like, I know what dotting it is. I think it's. That's true. It's when you don't know what to do, you start flailing. You're going to start flailing. And also, I mean, this is true in any kind of, like human interaction, relationship, especially now, being direct with people is really hard. Like looking someone in the eye and being like, this is like exactly what I think and exactly how I feel. Hard at work, hard in relationships. It's really tough.

[Natasha]

It's so liberating.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah, Yeah, I think that's. Oh, it feels fucking good. I feel like people just need to.

[Natasha]

Do it for the first time. Like it's just a thing in your head. And it's like once you do it, then you're like, oh, yeah.

[Austin Tedesco]

I mean, I feel it this way at work. It's like I spend 90% of my day in like slack and clawed and that I need to get on a call and I'll be like, really direct on a call. And it's like a very different. It's like code switching yourself for sure across different work meetings over and over again.

[Eddie]

Yeah, there is a lot of code switching. If you worked as long in a kitchen as you did or I did. And it's just like going to a corporate setting is so different. You have to talk in circles around and you can't just be like, fire three shrimp, you know, but talk to us. So you have this job at Substack. What is the job? And then how did it become this experiment writing about food?

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah. So I'm our head of business development at Substack. I started overseeing sports. I worked at ESPN for six years covering the NBA. And so they brought me into. I know we got a lot in common. My man.

[Eddie]

So horny dream job. Out of respect for you, I started.

[Austin Tedesco]

At ESPN in 2015, which was perfect because I feel very strongly that the last good NBA season was 2016. Like the peak. That's. That's KD's last year on the Thunder. That's the Klay Thompson Game 6. That's right before the free agency. We can get into all that. But so, anyway, so I would argue.

[Natasha]

A lot about 2016, last good year in general.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah. Oh, so many reasons why. But I. So I was brought into overseas sports, and then I quickly kind of started doing more in podcasting and video as we were pushing that way. And then my job became a bit of, like, let me help crack the things we haven't done before, like the app and video and podcasting. And so I kind of just help out across a bunch of different teams internally and with creators and external partners. From the perspective of, like, how do we build the Substack app to be a place where you can grow and run a subscription business you own, no matter what form of media you want to operate in, whether it's video. Like, me and my colleague Catherine were the people helping Jim Acosta launch on Substack when he left cnn. He now has a live video show he runs every day in the app. That was a thing that had never been done before, and it's huge. So I focus on that through a bunch of different things. It's a crazy time to be there, and you're crushing it. We're so happy you're here.

[Eddie]

Thank you. Yeah, we would love business development advice. Feel free to troubleshoot our Substack on the show.

[Austin Tedesco]

I also like the residential tech dork for a lot of stuff. It's like, how do I migrate my RSS feed here? It's like, I, I, I grew up as an only child, like, spending a lot of time on computers, so I do that, too.

[Eddie]

Yeah. She also only child from New England, you know?

[Austin Tedesco]

Hell, yeah.

[Natasha]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

Oh, that. That's fly. I thought you were just like, it said you worked at Substack, but I was like, maybe it's like, in culture. Because I just read the food stuff.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah, the food stuff was like, again, I started it mostly to be like, actually, nothing has been more helpful for helping me learn the product than using it every day, than being like, hey, y', all, like, going to the engineering team, Y' all sent me this notification about how much money I made. And it, like, I don't think it's right. Like, I think we need to tweak it a bit. Cause that's helpful. That's fun. Also, it's like, you understand the creator experience a lot better. But, yeah, no, I mean, I, I probably spend 80 hours a week working on building things at Substack. Whether it's an internal teams, external relationships, I'd like in New York. I've been here. Like, I meet with agents and managers and creators and a bunch of stuff like that.

[Eddie]

That's incredible. Do you mind if I ask you, I know Substack just got like this big investment.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

What do you think is like on the horizon for Substack?

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah. So we just announced a series C round, which is really exciting. Rich Paul is now an investor.

[Natasha]

Shout out, Rich Paul.

[Austin Tedesco]

Shout out, rich guy R. I think the thing it allows us to do more than anything is think long term is think like since I've been at Substack, we have just been sprinting at the longest, like quarter to quarter to keep building this thing and especially building this destination. I think you've experienced this. You've definitely gotten people to come over from because they know you from external social channels, but you've gotten a ton of subscribers from right in the app and right in the feed. And we're trying to make that thing go. And I think the thing, more than anything the investment allows us to do is like, oh, we can plan a year ahead, three years ahead, five years ahead, to be like, how do we make this thing as significant and big and powerful as possible? And how do we look at competition like YouTube? YouTube is the competition for the size and impact we want. And the investment helps us think in that way.

[Eddie]

Incredible. What do you think it is that is working for Substack versus say like a Patreon YouTube, like not. Not talking shit, just like, what would be your guys competitive angle to prospective artists?

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah. So the pitch I make, which I've been making all week, is like the biggest differentiator for Substack versus any other platform, is that you can, you can do whatever you want in any medium on a business that you own in full. You completely own it. You keep 90% of your subscription revenue. Otherwise it's free to use and it's plugged into one of the most powerful growth engines on the Internet. There's the feed and the app, but then there's also these like collaborative tools where you like, you know, if you and I went live through the Substack app, all of my subscribers get notified we're going live. You get directly in front of them in this frictionless environment in which they can just subscribe to you. And it's cool. Because the biggest challenge for any creative person, whether you're a writer, you're a director, you're a podcaster, is distribution. Like, it's the same question for this podcast, right? You're like, okay, we know there are people out here who would love to listen to this podcast, who would love to pay to be a part of this community for this podcast, but we need to reach them. And without Substack, the answers are, how do we tweak our thumbnail and headline on the YouTube algorithm so that it hits? Usually you have to be kind of like loud and bold or constructive in a way that's maybe not true to your voice to do that. How do we hack SEO optimizations? How do we figure out what's happening with the Twitter algorithm this week and on Substack? The biggest difference is that our discovery tools in our feed are designed to drive subscriptions. That's all the algorithm is designed to do. So it inherently rewards quality. Like, this show will do well in the Substack feed if people watch it and then subscribe to you because it's good. If they're like, well, you know, Austin was actually your worst guest, so we're not subscribing. It won't do well. And that's what gets rewarded in a system or that's what gets rewarded people. Like, there's different winners in a very cool way. A thing I tell people a lot is like, go look at the substack leaderboards. On the leaderboards for any category, you'll see rankings by annual revenue. And there's no way you could tell me anyone on those leaderboards aren't really fucking good at what they do.

[Eddie]

Yeah, I agree. I love the leaderboard, and I love that you do the rising leaderboards now. And what's really interesting is, and we talk about this with our producer, Chris, all the time, because he sends us the articles of, like, Joe Budden on Patreon.

[Austin Tedesco]

Right. Get that 20 mil.

[Eddie]

Yeah. And for people who are mainly podcasters, they seem to do really well on Patreon. I got in the substack because my thing is that I am a writer.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

And I missed Blogspot and I wanted a place to publish essays. And I do think the Substack audience still rewards writers more than anything. But you are growing, and I think that's what creators need from Substack is, like, more people who are used to watching pods and video on Substack.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah. I think the best way I would think about it right now, and the most exciting thing about Substack is that you can watch this change and evolve, like, every day. It's going to be in a totally different place. What's actually working in the app in six months, given the amount of inventory and consumer density that's growing, but the way that it's Working right now more than anything is that video, especially lo fi, intimate, accessible video where it feels like you're having a FaceTime with someone. That's why the app based live tool works so well. What it does more than anything is it drives free subscriptions. It gets people to be like, I want to be attached to this. I want to give you my email address. I want to make it so that every time you post I get alerted to it. And then it also drives people further down the funnel to be more likely to pay when you post that like really sick paywalled essay, which is probably a better paid conversion driver than a long form video post. That's the top of funnel. And it's like the paid subscription growth is a full funnel journey. That I think it would help a lot of creators to see it that way rather than, I think, I think a lot of creators do is they think of like everything's the bottom of the funnel. It's like either converted or it didn't. And I'm thinking that way. That's also a product of the stats you see operating that way. It's pretty rare for a creator to see in their stats like a full funnel journey, but that's how we're seeing video work more than anything.

[Eddie]

So let me ask you a question and I think the viewers, people who are like looking to get into the business would be curious. Do you think our strategy is sound? We give people the pod for free, hoping that they subscribe and follow and then the essays get paywalled. Do you think that is a good strategy?

[Austin Tedesco]

Yes, I would in almost every case. I think video, and especially collaborative video should be free. It's a great growth tool. I do think if you wanted to go live and do an AMA and be like paid subscribers only. Only paid subscribers can ask questions. This is between me and you. Again, it's like we're having a FaceTime that works really well. The other reality of paid subscriptions more than anything is that people pay at scale because they want to be connected to you. And the thing you're building, it's not to unlock individual pieces of content. You don't get to six figures a year in subscription revenue because someone's like, I wanted to unlock that one thing. It's a, it's a little different. You're talking about like there's people that do like day trading tips on subsec. That's different but like for, for culture stuff. It's because you've built because. Because you're someone people want to be attached to and your community around it. Again, I think of like Emily and Feed Me. People are paying because Feed Me is really good, but they're also paying for that chat, for that comment space, to engage with Emily. And so I would think of it that way and then I would think, what are your paid subscription drivers? Also, it's like there's a reality here that with you, it's just like, here's my top 100 movie list, here's where I want to eat. Like, people do convert for rec culture. That is definitely a part of it.

[Natasha]

Yeah, I feel like I'm always trying to get him to do like TikToks.

[Austin Tedesco]

And whatever, but I do feel like.

[Natasha]

It'S a cool thing where it could just like live on and it doesn't have to be corny. Like, I do think there is something corny about TikTok where that sub sack doesn't have, like if you go live on subsack because it's this group of people that really are showing up for you and they have, they're invested in you and they, they want to see what you have to say. And it doesn't have to be so performative on Substack. It really just feels like you're like kicking it with your homies.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah. And that's what gets. Again, because of the way the algorithm is set up, the thing that we don't reward that every other platform rewards is this behavior when you're doing this, when you're scrolling and scrolling through ads, we're like, oh, you don't like the content? We're not going to show it anymore. Like, we're like, that's cool. We're like, if you. The great thing about the way Substack's working now is you post a long form video, we send short form clips into the feed. And if we see. If the algorithm sees that users are like watching the short form clip and then clicking through to watch the long form video and then subscribing, we're like, oh, send more people that clip. Send more people who are into food in New York that clip so that you get rewarded for it.

[Eddie]

Yeah, I do a lot of reading on Substack and because I, I wanted to have a good algorithm, I was very selective about the people I follow and read. And what's funny, you got sent to me and I was like, perfect. So I started reading it and like I get sent so much phenomenal literature and essay writing on Substack that it's kind of where I get think piece News now.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah. There's also, like, really good restaurant criticism coming from people who would otherwise be traditionally gatekept. There's like, I forget her name. But the bar director at La Vaudor is now, like, really letting it rip on Substack. And it's like, really, really good. My friend Kay, who runs wine at Anajakti and Baby Bistro, who's like, really smart about wine, is like, here's my Rex, here's my list. I'm just gonna let it go here. And it's funny, I discovered both of those. These are like, people I know through the feed. I was like, why didn't anyone tell me you were launching?

[Eddie]

Yeah, no, the feed is really, really great. I mean, I found like, Jay Lee that way. I found you that way. And I've become. I will just become homies with people who I think the writing's cool. You know, like, I message people or I like things and there's actually a community on there. And I think the other strength that Substack has that I could not believe people could have access to for so cheap is like, if you want to be a writer, you can subscribe to junot Diaz for $8.

[Austin Tedesco]

Crazy.

[Eddie]

And that man is giving you the sauce of, like, how to technically be a writer.

[Austin Tedesco]

It's really good. Juno George Saunders is on there being like, how to write. And there's Tessa too, like Ottessa. And I on my end, a thing I use all the time is like, it would be impossible for me to do my job without these, like, AI supercharging tools like Granola and Claude and Cursor or whatever. And it's like, oh, I have someone like Lenny here to pay to be able to just like, get the information straight from the source in a way I wouldn't be able to otherwise. And it's like, I'm not even. This isn't my world. But I can go straight to the expert and find it.

[Eddie]

Yeah. And I do think that there is a natural gatekeeping at Substack because it is a originally a writer based app. You have to be able to write. And like, writing is much more difficult, I think, than just video.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

Like talking into the void.

[Austin Tedesco]

I think the thing I'd say, especially as we grow is like, there's. I think there's undeniably a degree to which that's true right now. I think the through line that will continue as we grow is that you have to be able to say to like, make sense of the world to people. That's. That's like the through line we say. And there's actually a lot of people on Substack starting to do that with video. Acosta is a good example. He's making sense of the world through video, and he's doing it. I think when people do that, they do that in a way that's like, oh, this feels like an essay, even if I'm speaking it out loud. Right. It's like, it's the same skill, even if it only happens on video. And I'm hopeful that, like, you know, one thing I would love to see is like, have you seen Eddington yet from Ari Aster?

[Eddie]

Oh, no, I haven't seen any.

[Austin Tedesco]

So I would love for. I think it makes a lot of sense for, like, if Ari wants to come, like, explain in more depth what's happening in the film. Like, Substack is the perfect place for this, like, complex story about how tech and AI is, like, breaking people's brains, you know? And he could do that in essay form, or he could do it in video form or audio form.

[Eddie]

Yeah. As a, like, competitor to the Reddit ama.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

Yeah. I think that's really smart. And then I also just feel like it has been very fun to watch brands try to, like, migrate to Substack.

[Austin Tedesco]

You're kind of a part of one, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eddie]

And, like, you know, I do the places when. And I really love it.

[Austin Tedesco]

Like, the really smart strategy when people ask me what, like, when they're like, oh, what should we do with brands? I'm like, places. The dudes at Blackbird Labs have a really good setup where they're working with voicy talent to put their platform first in a way that I think is really working.

[Eddie]

Yeah. The reason why the Places partnership is literally my favorite partnership I've ever had with art and commerce, besides my partnership with Chris Jackson at OneWorld Books that did Fresh off the Boat with me, is the owner of Places. Daniel is, like, he's very opinionated in the, like, brainstorming phase, but once we've decided on what the thing is, he does not give many notes. You know, he is like, I committed to this vision, and I trust this artist, you, Eddie, and the other writers you're bringing. I'm going to let you execute what you told me you would. And as long as I do what I said I would, there's never notes. And, like, I think that's what brands have to do. They gotta be like, Daniel. Cause some brands I've seen come on there, and it's like, brand Voice. Hey, what's up, guys? We're new to Substack and I'm just like, dead. You're dead on impact.

[Austin Tedesco]

You are for. For a few reasons. And like, it was, you know, it was reported during the series C announcement for Substack that we're going to start experimenting more with brand partnerships and advertising. That's still very much like a thing we're scoping out and experimenting with. But my advice and the thing I think will work is like, this only works if you give creative control to the talent you're working with within obviously some guidelines that you've worked through with them. Because one big reason why, again, it goes back to what is the algorithm going to reward? If it is set up to reward subscriptions, then a brand coming from a perspective of probably a little bit of risk aversion and what are we used to doing is going to post from the branded account and a branded voice, and they're going to get crushed by you. They're going to get crushed by Casey Lewis, they're going to get crushed by Rachel Carton, who people want to engage with at a higher rate.

[Eddie]

Yeah. I analogize everything to parenting now. It's like if you're a brand and you want to start a substack, find the artist that represents the voice of what you want to accomplish.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

And then just apply trust and patience and pay them.

[Natasha]

Yeah, yeah, that part.

[Eddie]

Yeah. I'm taken care of very, very well.

[Austin Tedesco]

Very happy. That's one reason why we're, you know, this isn't. There's. There's two kind of inevitabilities of into it. One, there's a lot of very good, meaningful money for creators that should be realized in this space. The other thing is that, as you said, it's happening like it's happening on the platform. It's coming as the people kind of like as stewards of this platform. We have to have a hand on the wheel of how it's going to go. So it's good for everyone, you know?

[Eddie]

Yeah. I feel like Instagram and. And TikTok to a lesser extent, but Instagram was very easy for brands to migrate to.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

It just became like a board that you threw up your advertisements on that were already like somewhere else. Right. It was very easy to, like, have a brand placement on Instagram and I think that's why Instagram so quickly just deteriorated. Right. TikTok. It's a little harder for brands. They need to create things. But, like, you know, I think Substack is the most difficult for brands to crack. And I like that.

[Austin Tedesco]

You need it. It's a different model. Right. And like, in a, like, you think of like a, a big risk averse brand where there's like eight different approval metrics and stuff to do something brand new you've never done before that has risk attached to it. That's one reason why there aren't as many success examples yet. But they're coming.

[Eddie]

I love it. This has been fantastic. We've gone way over. I didn't even know. This is incredible conversation.

[Austin Tedesco]

We'll do part two. NBA only.

[Eddie]

Yes. Behind the paywall.

[Austin Tedesco]

All my secrets from espn.

[Eddie]

Natasha's on vacation.

[Natasha]

We're doing the NBA only my vacation week.

[Eddie]

I love it.

[Austin Tedesco]

Yes. Hell, yeah. Thank you so much. Thanks so much for having me. Of course.