Carry Bradshaw AKA J Lee on Canal Street Dreams

Summary

Canal Street Dreams: Episode Summary Episode: Carry Bradshaw AKA J Lee
Release Date: July 18, 2025
Hosts: Eddie Huang and Natashia Perrotti
Guest: Jay Lee, Esteemed Food Writer

---

Introduction

In this engaging episode of Canal Street Dreams, hosts Eddie Huang and Natashia Perrotti welcome Jay Lee, a prominent food writer renowned for his work on Instagram and Interview magazine. Jay Lee shares his unique journey from fine arts to becoming a respected figure in the culinary critique world.

---

Jay Lee’s Journey into Food Writing

[06:34] Jay Lee:
"It's pretty random, actually. I've always been into food. I've always been kind of like a hedonist and a glutton or something."

Jay Lee delves into his passion for food and wine, tracing his transition from a visual artist traveling the world to immersing himself in the culinary scene. His initial foray into wine led him to document his gastronomic experiences on Instagram, which gradually evolved into comprehensive food reviews.

---

The Evolution of Jay Lee’s Writing Style

[10:10] Jay Lee:
"There's no objectivity. I mean, I'm lucky in that I don't really feel any responsibility to be a journalist in any way, shape, or form."

Jay Lee emphasizes his approach to food writing—prioritizing personal experience and passion over traditional journalistic objectivity. This authentic and playful style has resonated with his audience, earning him accolades and a loyal following.

---

Critique of the New York Times’ Restaurant Lists

[12:03] Jay Lee:
"The New York Times is for Cuomo supporters, Amy Schumer fans. The New York Times is not for us. No. It's for white ladies."

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Jay Lee's critique of the New York Times' top 100 restaurant lists. He argues that the selections often reflect a narrow demographic and fail to represent the diverse culinary landscape of New York City.

[13:07] Eddie Huang:
"The list is flawed. And it should be debated. And that's half the fun of it, really."

The hosts discuss how such lists may prioritize certain types of establishments, sometimes overlooking hidden gems like Eel Bar, despite positive reviews.

---

Jay Lee’s Top 10 New York Restaurants

Jay Lee shares his personal top 10 list of New York City restaurants, highlighting establishments that offer both exceptional food and unique dining experiences.

1. Superiority Burger

   • [32:24] Jay Lee:
     "It's a little bit more than I would like to pay, but it's so damn good."

2. Noodle Pudding

   • An Italian-American spot known for its fresh ingredients and homey atmosphere.

3. The Voodoo

   • Celebrated for delivering special meal experiences without exorbitant prices.

4. Four Horsemen

   • Praised for its contemporary cuisine rooted in historical flavors.

Other notable mentions include Maxi's, Ops, Kabawa, and The Grill, each selected for their distinct offerings and ambiance.

---

The Impact of Reviews on Careers

[61:00] Jay Lee:
"I write a slam piece, but I do feel a sense of guilt surrounding it. I don't really want to hurt anyone's bag, honestly."

Jay Lee discusses the delicate balance between honest criticism and supporting fellow restaurateurs. He reflects on his past experiences, including a pivotal moment when a zero-star review by Sam Sifton inadvertently propelled him into opportunities like writing a memoir that inspired "Fresh Off the Boat."

[62:35] Eddie Huang:
"Without that, like, we don't have Fresh Off the Boat."

This anecdote underscores how critical reviews, even negative ones, can lead to unexpected and positive career trajectories.

---

The Changing Landscape of New York City’s Food Scene

[49:20] Jay Lee:
"There's so much exciting new business models. A lot of DIY culture being back is. I think New York and DIY is synonymous."

The conversation shifts to the revitalization of New York's culinary scene, especially post-COVID. The hosts express optimism about the resurgence of independent restaurants, innovative business models, and the overall entrepreneurial spirit that is reshaping the city’s dining landscape.

[54:57] Jay Lee:
"So many new restaurants. Just went to this new restaurant, Bong. That's Crown Cambodia. They're good friends with Haas."

They highlight the influx of diverse cuisines and the emergence of establishments that prioritize both quality and unique dining experiences, further enriching the city's gastronomic diversity.

---

Navigating the Challenges of the Food Industry

Jay Lee and the hosts candidly discuss the challenges faced by restaurateurs and food writers alike, including maintaining authenticity, balancing financial constraints, and the inevitable struggle between artistic integrity and commercial success.

[57:00] Jay Lee:
"I never try to punch down. I only try to..."

Jay emphasizes his commitment to constructive criticism, aiming to foster improvement rather than just tearing down.

---

Conclusion

The episode culminates with reflections on the symbiotic relationship between food critics and restaurants, the importance of diverse and independent voices in shaping culinary standards, and the enduring passion that drives both Jay Lee and the hosts in their respective creative endeavors.

---

Notable Quotes

• Jay Lee on Objectivity:
  "There's no objectivity. I mean, I'm lucky in that I don't really feel any responsibility to be a journalist in any way, shape, or form."
  [10:34]

• Jay Lee on NYT Lists:
  "The New York Times is not for us. No. It's for white ladies."
  [12:03]

• Eddie Huang on Restaurant Energy:
  "The first year I worked the hardest. I just wanted it. And everyone was excited to be there and work and do the thing and. And it was never the same as the first."
  [46:44]

• Jay Lee on Critical Reviews:
  "If you think the restaurant's terrible and you're the critic, I was like, I'll just cop to it."
  [61:15]

---

For a deeper dive into this conversation, access the full episode on Substack here.

Transcript

[Eddie Huang]

Hey, prime members, are you tired of ads interfering with your favorite podcasts? Good news. With Amazon Music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad free top podcasts included with your prime membership. To start listening, download the Amazon music app for free or go to Amazon.com ADFreePodcasts that's Amazon.com ADFreeP Podcasts to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. All right. Yo, welcome back, Canal Street Dreams. We have a guest. I've been very excited to meet this person in person. It is my favorite food writer right now at Carrie Bradshaw on Instagram. He writes at Interview magazine, and he has Feed Me, Feed Me and Feed Me, and he writes some incredible reviews. Some of my favorite reviews recently. Jay Lee.

[Jay Lee]

Hey, nice to meet you. Thanks for having me, guys.

[Eddie Huang]

Welcome. Yeah, thank you for unmasking yourself.

[Jay Lee]

For the first time, anyone's seeing my face.

[Eddie Huang]

We were talking too, where it's just like. Like, wearing disguises. As a food critic, I feel is just, like, kind of goofy at this point.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. I mean, imagine if I came in here with a wig, like a blonde wig. It's funny, though, because I do look, like, very conspicuous. I, like, wear a hat pulled down and I wear tinted glasses, but this is just how I look.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

Like, I'm not trying to be anonymous.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, you look more like a dt, you know, like. Like a DT who's, like, trying to fit into the neighborhood. Like, hey, anybody got a quarter pound?

[Jay Lee]

I mean, I wear the ACG boots in the winter.

[Eddie Huang]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Jay Lee]

Sorry. I am, like, giving.

[Eddie Huang]

So DT. Yeah, you're definitely giving Ops or superintendent.

[Unknown]

Superintendent.

[Eddie Huang]

If you have the ACG boots and just, like, 75 keys, then people just think you're super.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, super is okay. At least not a landlord, I guess. Zoran, though.

[Eddie Huang]

Zoron. Shout out Zoron.

[Jay Lee]

This is like yesterday was, like, the best day in New York City of all time. It was the best day on Twitter as well. Yeah, it was such an amazing top.

[Unknown]

10 Twitter days, for sure.

[Jay Lee]

I was like, yeah, I couldn't sleep.

[Eddie Huang]

Were you from Chicago? How did it feel? Like Zoron versus Obama.

[Jay Lee]

I mean, oh, Obama's such a sad thing to talk about, but when Obama won, it was my first election I ever voted. Voted in. He's like, Mr. Chicago. Just like this hope, this charisma. Handsome, handsome man. And I cried. I like, like talking about his grandma, you know, raising him. And I remember, like, I was at work and I went in the bathroom. There used to be a restaurant over here called Suba. Used to work at this restaurant called Subo. It was like a Spanish restaurant. There was a. There's like a club in the basement. But I used to work there. And we did. It did like a pre shift about Obama. And then my manager was talking about his grandma raising him and how proud she would be if she could see him. And then I had to go in the bathroom and I cried.

[Eddie Huang]

Damn. Yeah, I remember Obama, too. I was helping out my friend Emily Sussman. She had an organization called Think Blue. It was, like, for young Democrats. And like, we were at this, like, party in Tribeca, and I was like, I can't believe, like, this country elected a black president. This is insane. And also just, like, I believed in the ideas.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

And then he bailed out the bank six months later, and I was like, tight mad.

[Jay Lee]

You don't even need to talk about the drone. Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

That's where it gets sad. That's where I'm so bumped up.

[Unknown]

It was still a hopeful day. Like, I. Our son is almost 2, and he was wearing a shirt that had Barack Obama on it yesterday. And he started saying, Barack Obama. Well, because I told him. I was like, that's Barack Obama on your shirt. That. And I was like, that's the vibe today.

[Jay Lee]

Like, it's hopeful.

[Unknown]

And it was just funny that he was even him. We were like, yeah, I still think.

[Eddie Huang]

Barack was the best president of the last probably 25 years. I would still have to give it to him. He just didn't meet the. I think no one's really going to.

[Jay Lee]

But, yeah, he was. The amount of hope that he brought us, and then, I don't know that feeling alone was worth something.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

No, absolutely.

[Unknown]

But I do think there's just no such thing as a perfect president. Like, things are going to happen. Or maybe you. Whatever it is. But he was great.

[Eddie Huang]

So, yeah, presidents have to do violent things. Like, politics is a Violence.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

So they wouldn't have to be. No. Zoran won't do any violent things.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. I have a lot of belief in Zo run.

[Jay Lee]

I know.

[Eddie Huang]

I'm excited.

[Jay Lee]

I'm so stoked.

[Eddie Huang]

I'm a little worried about, like, the city running grocery stores because they can barely run the dmv. But, like, all the other ideas, I'm like, yo, I believe you.

[Jay Lee]

I think that.

[Eddie Huang]

I believe you.

[Jay Lee]

I. I think they can do it. I don't know.

[Unknown]

Well, Grassidis exists.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. We talked about grass.

[Jay Lee]

Exists. And CVS barely operates. It's like, well, you know.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Sour Lifesaver gummies behind, like, a plastic wall. Like, that's crazy.

[Unknown]

It's. You can, like, kind of grocery shop at a CVS if you need to, or duane read. You can get it done.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

I'm gonna dig in. You brought us these Juicy patties.

[Jay Lee]

I have to do this Juicy Patty. This is the first time I've ever walked by and there's no line, so. So. Wow.

[Unknown]

This is exciting.

[Jay Lee]

They are. I, I got them for you guys.

[Unknown]

Thank you so much. Did you have one?

[Jay Lee]

Do you. I had one.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Jay Lee]

They're. They live up to the hype. I, I'm. I'm actually surprised. These are the spicy beef ones.

[Eddie Huang]

Well, thank you. This is a brand from Jamaica. Is it the Juicy Patty from Jamaica?

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, from Jamaica.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh, yeah. They're legit.

[Jay Lee]

And the dude's Chinese.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. Yeah. No, it's Chinese people that make these.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. So cool.

[Eddie Huang]

I visited them for Wong's World.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

Oh, really? You visited Juicy Patty? So you're very familiar with Juicy Patty. Wow.

[Eddie Huang]

Out there in Jamaica, it's like patch and Geno's is juicy and tasties. You either a tasty guy or you juicy. Oh, you gotta go.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, I should go. I should go.

[Eddie Huang]

Well, when you bought this, I was like, oh, maybe he Chinese. Jamaican.

[Jay Lee]

I wish. I am. I am Blacian, but I am not that. I'm not Jamaican.

[Eddie Huang]

Wow. This hits. This hits.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, they're still flaky. Like, I, I, I. I waited in line the first time. I waited, like, half an hour, and I was like, no way this is gonna be worth it. And then I was like, whoa. This is, like. This is, like, as good as they say it is.

[Eddie Huang]

It's not like the tower aisle Patty that everybody else is selling. Everybody's on those frozen tower aisles.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy to do it. Like, there's so many spots. I live in Bed Stuy. There's so many spots nearby that are all great, but they are better. Somehow I wouldn't think it was possible, but they did it.

[Unknown]

This is great.

[Eddie Huang]

A lot of spots buy the Frozen Tower Isle brand.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

They reheat, and they're still really good. They're good. Put them in some cocoa bread.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, good.

[Eddie Huang]

But like, yo, what's it? While I eat this? Tell us your life story. How'd you come to food writing?

[Jay Lee]

It's, like, pretty random, actually. I mean, I've always been into food. I've always been kind of like a hedonist and a glutton or something. I've done have had lots of jobs. I don't want to get fully into them. But I. I used to be an artist and I had the privilege of like traveling the world and I like really discovered food and wine. And so through traveling for art, visual artists, like painter. Yeah, I made paintings and sculptures. I went to school for photography, but now I'm doing this. But yeah, so I was traveling around and I was falling deeper and deeper in love with food and wine, particularly because I was in Paris all the time. It was like the best place to be as like a young 20 something year old, like trying to find yourself or something, especially as a glutton. But yeah, so I was doing that art, but then it was kind of not working out, but I had enough money to save where I could kind of pick a new path for myself. And I picked wine because I always wanted to do work in a restaurant or something, but I'm too lazy to be honest with everybody. I couldn't hack the running around and being yelled at. I couldn't do it. So I was like, I'll do wine. This is adjacent. And so I started doing wine. And through that. Actually my Instagram started as it was my finsta. It was like, used to be photos of me and my friends at parties and like weird shit. I had to delete a lot of stuff. You can go back, try. It's hard to even scroll back that far. But I had some crazy stuff at the beginning. But then I was posting pictures of my food and then I just kept posting pictures of like every meal that I would eat. And then one time I ate at a restaurant. I won't name them, but I went for Thanksgiving and I had like the worst meal. I had such a bad meal. They like, we got there and they let us eat for like an hour. This is Thanksgiving. This is like a pre fee, like prefix. Yeah, it was like 200 bucks. I was like, okay, we're going to ball out. This is Thanksgiving.

[Eddie Huang]

And.

[Jay Lee]

And so we're eating. The food was good. The food was great. But then like after an hour, the waiter came and dropped the check. And I was like, oh, can we order another bottle of wine? He was like, oh no, we're closing. I was like, we've been here an hour. This is an Italian restaurant and it's Thanksgiving dinner.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

And you were accepting reservations until right now and now you're dropping the check. And so I wrote like, I wrote a really impassioned, like angry thing on my Instagram. The first thing I ever wrote on my Instagram, the first words I ever posted, and it was about how angry I was. And to the restaurant's credit, they gave me full refund. It was amazing. And then everyone's like, whoa, you should write more. Like, things like that.

[Eddie Huang]

You should write more angry Yelp reviews.

[Jay Lee]

I was like, yeah, maybe. I guess I will. And then I started writing just little reviews on my Instagram. I never. I never wrote, like, a long piece until October. I never wrote more than, like, two paragraphs.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, but you give yourself more credit. I think a lot of people start that way. It's like, helpers and things like that. Bloggers. But, like, it makes sense that you were a fine artist.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Because one of the things I really love about the way you write reviews, I wouldn't even say it's, like, fully criticism.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

But it's that you will look at your experience, what the restaurant's doing, but then also examine form.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

There is a conversation about form, especially when you did your this is bowl review. It was like, oh, the form of the. The bowl. The custom bowl, and things like that. I was like, yo, this guy has an eye towards form. But also, like, you're passionate, and you let yourself perhaps not be objective, which makes it real, because, like, objectivity is such a false idea.

[Jay Lee]

There's no objectivity.

[Eddie Huang]

None.

[Jay Lee]

I mean, I'm lucky in that I don't really feel any responsibility to be a journalist in any way, shape, or form or, like, I don't have to, like, adhere to the same kind of ethics that they have to, even as far as, like, telling the truth or, like, reporting the news. Like, I kind of. I like to. I hope that people can tell that I like to have some fun with my writing.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, you definitely sometimes feel like a fan of it, which is dope.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, it's like. It's all, like, a service to the restaurant and to myself. But, yeah, sometimes I'm worried that I have a little bit too much fun with the form, but ultimately, it's like, my thing. Like, who cares what other people think? But, yeah, I do have a bit of fun with the form, which I'm glad to see somebody appreciate.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. I mean, also, you had an article about your top 10 restaurants in, like, response to the New York Times top 100, which was one of the last articles we read, because once they trash Zoran, I can't subscription. But, like, how did you feel about their, like, top 100 articles?

[Jay Lee]

I mean, so I guess I was debating whether I was gonna do this or how hard I was gonna go in this, but I guess I'm here to talk shit.

[Eddie Huang]

Go hard, go hard, go hard.

[Jay Lee]

I'm here to talk shit.

[Unknown]

We are elite shit talkers.

[Jay Lee]

Apologies to my colleagues and writer friends. I love all of you, but I'm here to talk shit today.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

It's all.

[Eddie Huang]

Get the strap out.

[Jay Lee]

The New York Times is for Cuomo supporters, Amy Schumer fans. The New York Times is not for us. No. It's for white ladies. It's not King in the top 10 is wild.

[Unknown]

Not all white ladies.

[Jay Lee]

Oh, I don't have no problem with white ladies. We love white ladies.

[Eddie Huang]

Olive oil ladies. Olive oil lady. Keep talking like 92nd street white ladies. Right?

[Jay Lee]

We love white ladies. My girlfriend is a white woman that. We love her. We love her, and we're getting married. But like, the list, like, I want it. I want the Times. I want the biggest newspaper in the world to be representative of me or cool things. But I guess we can't have the president that is going to be perfect. And we can't have the big media source that's going to be that either. But their list is flawed. And it's of course, going to be flawed. And it should be debated. And that's half the fun of it, really. So I don't like. It's all someone's opinion. I wish that they were more. I wish that it was more fun.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. To me, the top 100 felt like them. There was almost like a quota of certain types of restaurants that they were going to put in there. There was also like a very much like we're supposed to like this restaurant. So it's in here.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

But then I think they left out certain places that you just know is hitting. Right. Like, Eel Bar for me, was a big.

[Jay Lee]

Okay.

[Eddie Huang]

I was. I can't believe.

[Jay Lee]

Because they wrote a good review of it, too.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh, I didn't see their review.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, they were a good review of it recently.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. That felt like political that they left that out for some reason. Love odor, I think got left out.

[Jay Lee]

No, it got. It was on there. The review of it was like kind of the nail in the coffin for me. It was just such a terrible review. I heard her wig fell off. No.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh. What?

[Jay Lee]

I heard her wig fell off.

[Eddie Huang]

Damn.

[Jay Lee]

While. While she was reviewing the voodoo.

[Eddie Huang]

Damn.

[Jay Lee]

And then she gave it a terrible review. She's like, I brought my little nephew here and he ate at the voodoo and didn't like it.

[Eddie Huang]

That's not the best way.

[Jay Lee]

Is that how you eat at Le Boudor?

[Unknown]

Your nephew, who probably only Eats chicken tenders. Thank you so much for an opinion. We don't give a fuck.

[Eddie Huang]

Shake Shack in Madison Square.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. You know, what are you doing, dude? But I played a really funny game with myself when the Times list came out. There was. Who picked this restaurant? Was it Priya or Melissa? You can go down the list and you click on, like, Lilia. You're like, who picked Lilia? Melissa.

[Eddie Huang]

Yes.

[Jay Lee]

Who picked, like, anything with spice? It's always going to be Priya. It's like Bungalow. Yeah. It's like. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Like, I wonder who picks Bungalow on there?

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. Who picked. Yeah. Who put Sichuan Mountain House in the top 10? It's. It's Priya. I mean, there's always. There's always going to be. No one diner can be representative of, like, everybody's tastes. And I guess that's what the Times is trying to do with the list or something. It needs to be someone that doesn't like spicy food. Maybe that's the dichotomy of diners is like, there's a spicy food eater and then not spicy foodie.

[Eddie Huang]

And I like the Pete Wells era because he was a bit of an arsonist and, like, he was playing with the audience and he wasn't always objective. I don't think he purported to be objective. He's like, I'm Pete Wells. I live in Fort Green. This is what I think. And, like, you know, he. He was interesting.

[Jay Lee]

I'm stoked. I'm getting dinner with him tonight.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh, word?

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

I love Pete. Tell Pete I never met him.

[Jay Lee]

I'm excited. This is like Rosner. This is like, the first food critic I met. I need to. Yeah. I want to know how things are.

[Eddie Huang]

My favorite. Until you started writing.

[Jay Lee]

Oh, wow. Thank you.

[Eddie Huang]

Straight up and down and like, legaia always. I mean, obviously, like. Like, Lagaia kind of kicked my career off.

[Jay Lee]

Oh, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Without Lagaya.

[Jay Lee]

Shout out.

[Eddie Huang]

I really love when she was doing 25 and under and. But 25 and under to me, isn't necessarily critical. Right. I think. And I'm excited to see La Gaia as the New York Times critic. That is exciting to me. Very first review, I didn't read it. I didn't see it yet.

[Jay Lee]

It's a view. It's a new. It's that one that rotates.

[Eddie Huang]

Can you start screenshotting me because I canceled my subscription.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. I will give you the bootleg. You can bootleg.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jay Lee]

We need a scam. Strange choice for first review. This, because it's like the. It's like we recommend the burger and the Caesar salad and the chocolate cake. It's like a review. I would love what New York is. This is like the first thing that.

[Eddie Huang]

Worked for 25 and under.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. You know what I mean?

[Eddie Huang]

You know who's also extremely critical is La Gaia's husband. Aaron is like my guy.

[Jay Lee]

Nice.

[Eddie Huang]

Like, he low key, is one of the most educated people I know on, like, new wave Asian cinema.

[Jay Lee]

Oh, wow.

[Eddie Huang]

He put. He put me so cool. Yeah. He put me on a, like, brighter summer day.

[Jay Lee]

Like, I'm going to write down brighter summer day. Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

I never seen.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh, best. Best Taiwanese film. Edward. Yeah. You watch that film, you see, like, so many people. Jack. That film. But incredible. But I really. Pete Wells was my favorite because also I think he knew that the critic, in a way, is like a performer.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Like a star.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

You know, you got to have, like, charisma.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. Because it's like criticism. It's like, it's not the ultimate truth. It's. At the end of the day, it's entertainment, you know, like, I tried to tell my truth, but that's the only truth I can tell. But I care more about it being entertaining.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. Because, like, we never actually read a review before going to a restaurant.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Yeah. I feel like it's mostly after to be like, what did everyone else think? Because we know what we think. We're looking to be led. It's just interesting to get other perspectives.

[Eddie Huang]

I more read it when someone's like, I'm reviewing Shake Shack or I'm tearing down this restaurant. Like, here's a zero star. I'm like, oh, I gotta see this. I'm here for the beef tape.

[Jay Lee]

That's what I'm surprised that no one is really leaning into because, like, that's what people want to read. But I feel like there's, like, it's too nice to.

[Eddie Huang]

And the Internet's already got you with the, like, this restaurant's got this. The old role of the critic of, like, when we didn't have the Internet of, like, check out this restaurant. I don't think that's the role of the critic.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

You know?

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. It shouldn't be.

[Eddie Huang]

You got infatuation for, like, that.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah. And we have, like, TikTok to see, like, all the cheese pools that you could want. Like, the New York Times doing best today. They did best croissants in the city. Like, list of best croissants. It's like, that's really what we're doing. Now it's okay.

[Eddie Huang]

I mean I'm sure that's showing. Croissants.

[Jay Lee]

It's exactly this guy. But eat, eat croissants. Yeah. I'm like, I'm sure that's what gets the readers. I can't blame them entirely. But it just seems like low hanging fruit for it doesn't seem like all the news that's fit to print. In my humble opinion, babe, as, as.

[Eddie Huang]

Not as not an unwell food person eating food writing. What like, what are the ways that you find out about like restaurants you want to go to?

[Unknown]

I mean, honestly, like it has to be pre you because you put me on to a lot of stuff. But I think it's just kind of talking to people. Like I like, I don't really look to TikTok or guides that people are posting. Like I know that's a big thing. People always be like, oh my God, I saw this. Someone will send me a restaurant on Tik Tok and it'll be like the same generic person. Like, oh my God. Tonight we went to Bungalow and we had the D. I think. Yeah. I think talking to people, honestly, I like walking around a lot in New York, but I'm definitely in a honeymoon phase with New York. Like we just moved back from la.

[Jay Lee]

You're from la? Oh no, you're from Boston.

[Unknown]

From Boston. But we lived in LA for the past five years. So it's a lot of just walking around and looking at interesting spots or like if I'm already going to a spot. Like we really like going to Eel Bar and there's a spot across the street that I'm like, we should go try there.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So I really just try to find places that I want to go that are in areas that I'm already in that kind of feel like they would be fun. But that's just how I'm, that's the.

[Eddie Huang]

Best way in New York. I used to like menus.

[Jay Lee]

I feel like I, I, I can't do that because I like the places that I like to go to. So I go to the places that I like.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

And then I also have to write about new places that I, that I've heard about or something. So I rarely get a chance where I'm like, oh, this restaurant looks interesting. I'm just going to go eat at this random restaurant. I would love to do that more.

[Unknown]

It is fun.

[Jay Lee]

Hard to find the time.

[Eddie Huang]

No. Yeah. For your.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

You have to like seek it out and like see what people are talking about and like in the Old days, all the critics used to be on Chowhound and we're like peeping what people were watching on Chowhound. But I like what you're picking before we get to like the reviews. Your top 10 restaurants. Yeah, you know, what were your top 10? If you can remember them, you can pull them up.

[Jay Lee]

But also I'm curious off the dome just to see if I can, I guess.

[Eddie Huang]

Okay, yeah, I want to, I want to know the top 10. But also, what is it that you like, love in New York City food scene right now?

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, what do I love? I mean I, I've been thinking about this a lot. I haven't been to LA in a long time, but I, I haven't seen, I heard someone say I'm going to steal it, that L. A has better food, but New York has better restaurants.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Jay Lee]

So like when I think about the way that like when I think about a good restaurant, I think about the restaurant more than I think about the food even often. And I don't know if that's the right way to think about food and restaurants. I'm trying to parse that.

[Eddie Huang]

No, it's the food and restaurant comparison is very similar to dating in L A to New York as well. People in L. A are like, fit and like the physical material may be hotter, but like 0riZ, I will say.

[Unknown]

This too, which is the same sentiment. It's your out. You'll, you'll look better in LA but your outfit will be better in New York.

[Jay Lee]

I've always felt that.

[Unknown]

So that is.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, I don't want to, I don't need to get on my L. Like.

[Eddie Huang]

There are so many hot people that can't buy the right pair of shoes.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

Like you will just be hotter. Like you can look like you'll be down bad, like raggedy sweating, your hair, everything's up. But your outfit's good in New York.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And in LA it's like you're in sweats every day, but you're hot. You're like sun kissed and everything's working and like every day looks like you just got a facial. And I think that's kind of the same for food.

[Eddie Huang]

Whereas, yeah, there's like beautiful people in mad happy in la, you know? Yeah, it's bad.

[Jay Lee]

But I guess the thing that I was referring to is like, like all of the like taco spots and all the time.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, the ethnic food is a car.

[Jay Lee]

Like if I had a car, I'd be in Queens. I should get a car So I could just go to Queens all the time.

[Eddie Huang]

You pass by a restaurant, you're like, one day I will come. Can see this because I'm heading onto the 405.

[Unknown]

But you also do. It's funny. Like, we've done this before with friends where there we all live in la, Hollywood. And they'll be like, we're gonna go do a food tour in sgv, Go to. Drive out to sgv and then eat at, like, six restaurants that day and drive back. So it's like, destinational in that way. And, like, the food is better, but the. I don't think there was maybe one restaurant. And we had to convince ourselves into it, where we were, like, having dinner here is fun. Like, sitting in this setting and is, I guess, fine.

[Eddie Huang]

It's wildly intentional and then wildly a letdown besides what's on the plate.

[Unknown]

I was gonna be straight up with you. I know. It's okay.

[Jay Lee]

I want to go. I mean, I don't. I just have heard so much about the cats.

[Unknown]

Yeah. I honestly wanted to go more after, like, we had gone before. Well, no, but I was like, now this is more interesting to me than just like, everybody being like, this is a really good restaurant.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. Like, horses open and everybody lost their minds. Like, we gotta get on the horses. And I was like, dude, this is so okay.

[Jay Lee]

Ye. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

You know, like, it's okay. It's like, finally there's a restaurant that, like, understands service lightly.

[Unknown]

Like, almost a vibe in there. Yeah, Almost like the vibe is in the room with you. Maybe.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

But it's not quite.

[Eddie Huang]

I mean, the first time I went there, I just. I did Molly, and, like, I didn't eat anything. And then I just drank mad tequila. And then there was.

[Jay Lee]

I don't like this restaurant.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I had to, like, Molly makes me. So I went into the bathroom, and there was a woman in the bathroom. And I was like, damn, there's a shorty in the men's bathroom. And she was like, eddie, what are you doing? I'm like, oh, it was my friend. Emile's friend. It was funny. So that was my horse's experience. I didn't eat food there until the second visit. And then I was like, it's fine. And then I. And then by the third visit, it came out that homie was killing cats.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Unknown]

And I will say when. When you go to a place and the best thing is the burger. I don't think the restaurant.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, that's the thing. It's just that's why I was like the first time, the first New York Times review. The new one is like, when you're recommending the burger. That's really what we want to like about right now is writing about a burger.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jay Lee]

There's so much interesting stuff.

[Unknown]

That's what I'm saying. That's low hanging fruit. That's my dumb ass.

[Jay Lee]

Like, the burger's great.

[Unknown]

Never ask me for a recommendation on anything. I'll tell you to get the burger.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Like, for real.

[Eddie Huang]

Yes. Which. But the quote is correct. I would say ethnic food better in LA restaurants.

[Jay Lee]

I'm jealous.

[Eddie Huang]

Better in New York. But I would even like French food much better in New York.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the thing here.

[Eddie Huang]

Caribbean food non existent in L. A. Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

I never had it till I moved to New York. I don't think.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh, word.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. This doesn't exist in Chicago. Really? It doesn't exist in a lot of places.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. Toronto, London, Orlando, Miami, New York.

[Jay Lee]

Because they have juicy patty in Orlando too, I think.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. And like there's mad Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. I grew up with Caribbean food.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Cuban people, you know. So it's on the east coast. There's pockets of it. But back, back to the question about. Because you kind of did. Is like, what do you think is. I guess I'll go first. I'll say this is like. I think there is an incredible, like influx of seafood spots and there's really good Basque food.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Right now, Basque influenced food. A lot of like medicine, like Greek influenced food. That's chef driven.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

I think that's, that's the key. Because it's not traditionally Basque, it's not traditionally Greek. But you can see the inspo in this. Chef driven.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess my answer would be kind of the opposite is that I'm excited about like the like the whole like attaboy atto mix thing is like one hand hospitality. They're killing it. All of these like high fine dining Korean stuff is like. So it's, it's like a real revelation. But also like the fancy Chinese food is really nice. I was like, Szechuan mountain house is very, very good. But I, I prefer chile over same just as far if you're gonna put one in the one of the two. But that, that little like bang bang.

[Eddie Huang]

Is like, oh, it's crazy. That's one of the craziest ever.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

And that's what's so cool about New York.

[Eddie Huang]

And then you got Nan Xiang, Xiaolongbao like.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

On the street level.

[Jay Lee]

That's like my favorite takeout food.

[Eddie Huang]

This is St. Mark's is in its greatest era. I remember St. Mark's when it was Grand Szechuan upstairs and it was hot ass.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

And that's what Szechuan Mountain House took over.

[Jay Lee]

Oh. Yeah. I, I was. When Szechuan Mountain House opened, I was confused that it wasn't Grand Szechuan.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

I've been going to Grand Szechuan for so long.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. She loves Szechuan Mountain House. That's like her favorite.

[Jay Lee]

It's very good. I was like, I don't know if it should be in the top 10. But it's like, why not?

[Unknown]

Yeah. I mean, maybe.

[Jay Lee]

But I think it couldn't be. Couldn't be. Sure. Whatever.

[Eddie Huang]

I think is absolutely top 10.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

And also they have the number one delivery apparatus. Like when you order delivery from chili, it comes hot. It's in a great container. Like, nothing spills.

[Unknown]

Yeah. That's important.

[Jay Lee]

And that's so cool.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

But speaking to what you're saying about the seafood is I. I feel bad. I've not been to. Not been to Penny.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh.

[Jay Lee]

Because my girlfriend is allergic to shellfish.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh. That's why you're not seeing this arc of seafood in the city, bro. Call me. I'll go with you on assignment. I'll go with you on assignment.

[Jay Lee]

Me and Em. Me and Sunberg are going tomorrow.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh, nice.

[Jay Lee]

But yeah, I've been.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh, we're going tomorrow too.

[Jay Lee]

What time?

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, yeah, five.

[Jay Lee]

We're early.

[Unknown]

Bir special.

[Jay Lee]

You have a baby.

[Unknown]

Yeah, we like when the restaurant opens, we pull up. We're like the first people in a spot.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Nice when it's kind of excited.

[Jay Lee]

But yeah, I have to avoid all these because my girlfriend is allergic. But she won't admit it. And so she'll eat all the. Eat all this makes sense.

[Eddie Huang]

You're not seeing the shellfish arc in the city.

[Unknown]

She's like, well, yeah.

[Jay Lee]

She's like, I'm just like drunk. And I'm like, no.

[Unknown]

You'Re like, that's so funny. But she like does it for you.

[Jay Lee]

She's like, she loves it. When we first started dating, she wasn't alert. Is a late in life allergy. We see crabs all day. My mom is allergic to shellfish too. The same allergy. So growing up, I could never eat shrimp. And then I was like, yes, I'm an adult. I get to eat whatever the fuck I want.

[Unknown]

See, I had the opposite. I was allergic to shellfish as a well developed. I was eating it as like a baby. My parents were like, feeding me a bunch of shellfish. Cause we grew up in Boston in the summer, so it was like lobster, whatever.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And then I got. I became allergic and then I grew out of it.

[Jay Lee]

Whoa. That gives me hope. Yeah.

[Unknown]

But I think too, there's a thing that I know going around. I don't know if this is helpful, but, like, friends of ours that have kids and their kids will have an allergy and you can like almost micro dose yourself out of the allergy. I don't know how real it is. I don't know if it works.

[Jay Lee]

Okay.

[Unknown]

If, like, you expose yourself a little bit, you kind of build a tolerance.

[Jay Lee]

Like, you get one shrimp from the shrimp cocktail.

[Unknown]

Yeah. You get one little nibble until you can, like have a full shrimp.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. Like no vaccine, but just. I'm gonna like, put like shrimp shells under your pillow. It's gonna be like a homeopathic. Like, I'm like. I diluted the shrimp cells until like.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, it makes. Because that's what I've been doing a lot, is just eating a lot of seafood.

[Jay Lee]

I want that to be me.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. I love seafood.

[Jay Lee]

All the Egyptian seafood stuff too.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. In Queens.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, I know. So fun. That's. And like the Morisco. So, like, the new Mexican ones are going crazy too.

[Eddie Huang]

Have you been to the Egyptian joint in Queensland?

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

[Eddie Huang]

Next time you go, hit me.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, we should go.

[Eddie Huang]

We should all go. That'd be fun.

[Jay Lee]

So fun. It's really fun. It's like one of the most fun meal experiences now in New York because.

[Eddie Huang]

I saw it and it just. The line is arduous. And I have a kid. Somebody else was going. I'd go, yeah. Tick tock, tick tock. Blew it up. Kareem Rama blew it up.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Shout out, Kareem.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. But I was nervous to go on after him. Oh, he's like goaded riffer, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

I mean, he got a lot of practice on the subway.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah. I was like, man, man. And then they got the like, hot kid from the rapping guy. Oh, Yoshi, dude.

[Eddie Huang]

You'Re good, you're good. Don't worry. We'll put the. Our one on one episode in between.

[Jay Lee]

We'll give you.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah, you're Runway.

[Eddie Huang]

You're covered, you're covered. We got you as the.

[Jay Lee]

Listen to his music. He's good rapper too.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah, they're good.

[Jay Lee]

Feel like if Brock Hampton was turn style, 100%. Yeah. They're, like, so diverse and attractive and talented.

[Unknown]

I know. They're all, like, hot. I know.

[Eddie Huang]

Just a group of hot children and their friends.

[Unknown]

It's crazy. They were all just like, yeah, we should have a group. I'm like, like, I know we don't have. Cuz like, in the past, I feel like. And we've talked about this, there would be, like, a pedophile around, like, putting kids together. Like, we, like, lost that, so now it's just up to them to put themselves together. Yeah. Lou Pearlman. It would be like that guy being like, these kids should have a band. And now there's not. Like, they have to just do it themselves.

[Eddie Huang]

Shout out to them for doing street dreams, you know, some talented children center of the pod. You got hot, talented children.

[Unknown]

First of all, hot, talented children in your area. Send them to our podcast studio, like.

[Jay Lee]

Hanging out outside of LaGuardia. Oh, 1-800-business card.

[Eddie Huang]

Knows you're going to have a lifetime doc in 20 years. Eddie touched me funny after the show.

[Jay Lee]

No, no.

[Eddie Huang]

I did it. I didn't do it. Oh, no, they're the best, man. I love them.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. Yeah. But no, we've.

[Eddie Huang]

We've intentionally tried to not bring on guests that are in, like, a PR cycle.

[Jay Lee]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

You know, because I feel like so many pods just interview whoever's, like, got a book out.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

And yeah, we. We try to dig into the stuff. Like, like, you, like, just. You wrote some. I was like, you want to come on?

[Jay Lee]

No, it's so cool. Yeah. It seems like it's people that you actually are stoked about, so it's really.

[Unknown]

People we're fans of and, like, want to have conversations with.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. I'm very flattered to be included.

[Eddie Huang]

We should break out your list, though.

[Jay Lee]

Okay, let's do it off the dome.

[Eddie Huang]

We always get distracted here.

[Jay Lee]

Purity Burger number one.

[Eddie Huang]

Okay.

[Jay Lee]

I mean, I was just thinking, I have issues with Superiority Burger. Every time I go, everyone's like, people I've had. I have a friend that tells me, like, that I'm cucked by Superiority Burger because I just. Every time I go, I'm like, it's a little bit more than I would like to pay to, like, oh, $20 for collard greens. I have crumbs in my, like, silverware container and stuff. Like, it's a little bit more than I would like to pay. But then every time I'm like, it's so damn good. Like, like, it's Less than I would pay if I ate it anywhere else. The ingredients they're using are better than anywhere else. Like, the chef is, like, world class. Like, I'm fine to. I don't know. Every time I'm like, it doesn't sit exactly right. But that's also maybe what makes it so New York or something.

[Eddie Huang]

I would say this. I think there's a museum tax at Superior Burger that is appropriate because there's no CBGBs. There's no overthrow boxing. All we kind of got is, like, Superiority Burger. That is, like a museum to punk right now.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. And, you know, style of cooking is so. I hate to even say that it's punk because it's corny, but it is.

[Eddie Huang]

It is. It's. It's. It's. It's straight edge cooking because it's like, there used to be Angelica kitchen that all the straight edge Angelica there used to be Ziggy's Good food that is now wraps.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Right. All of suan is dead.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

So it's like those restaurants didn't survive. They needed to charge more money, I think. And, like, Superiority Burger is the best, like, vegetarian restaurant left. We need more vegetarian restaurants.

[Jay Lee]

Yes. It's not. But it's not even about it being vegetarian. I mean, it's a set of constraints that they work within. Yeah, but I'm always. They don't let themselves turn into a Italian restaurant. They could easily just be serving pasta all the time, and I bet it would be the best pasta ever, because that's an easy vegetarian food. But they don't let themselves fall into that. No, they don't let themselves fall into any traps. They're always breaking whatever box that they create for themselves.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. They're, like, really artists there. Even the menu has, like, advertisements from mass books on it. Like, that restaurant is, like, all that's left of, like, Kim's video in the punk scene, which, like, we just need more of in New York. So that's number one respect.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. Just like, I was like, where would. Where would I want to eat if I could only eat at one restaurant in New York every single day? And I'm not gonna say Maxi's, even though that's maybe the truth. Maxi's Noodles, Wonton. Best wonton soup in New York. That might be the truth, but I would. I should eat at Superiority Burger every day just because the menu is different every day. It's always seasonal. Best desserts in New York City.

[Eddie Huang]

You're also by the park. Like, you get to chill in the park after you go to Masked Books. I mean, I literally did that day with her last year.

[Jay Lee]

It's one of the best days.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. If you know, you know.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. So that's number one. It had to be number one for me. Number two is the voodoo. It's. They do it right over there. Yeah, they do it right. Have you guys been?

[Eddie Huang]

No, I haven't been. But like, I'm aware, Very aware. I want to go.

[Unknown]

Like on our list of places to.

[Jay Lee]

Go, it is like the most special meal. Like you go to a restaurant. It's not even that expensive. It's my hot take.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Jay Lee]

Price in New York is such a funny thing that I think about constantly that I'm trying to reconcile. Like, my brain is so broken by New York that I don't know what's expensive and what's not expensive. And the context is so, like shifting all the time. Like, I don't know.

[Unknown]

Well, yeah, it's all perspective, right?

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I just paid 24 for two cold brews.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So then I'm like, so then. Yeah, right.

[Jay Lee]

Then you're like. Then you're like a martini or you're mad about it or something, but then you're like a martini. It can be like 25 for some.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Or we have a meal. Like, I don't. I don't remember where it was, but we ate somewhere and it was, you know, probably expensive anywhere else. But we looked at each other and I was like, not bad. It was like 120. And I was like, not bad.

[Jay Lee]

When I come out under 150, I'm like, this is dirt cheap.

[Unknown]

That feels. Because now it's true. It's like even delivery.

[Jay Lee]

My dad, he'd kill me.

[Unknown]

Like if we doordash thanks me, it's gonna be $70. Like you can't DoorDash for under 70. You can if you're one person. If you're two people.

[Jay Lee]

We don't do doordash anymore.

[Unknown]

Oh.

[Jay Lee]

Oh, no. I. I'm. I'm just. Because he's another anti Zoro guy. But we do. Yeah, I'm not anti. I'm not delivery shaming.

[Eddie Huang]

I deliver too much off Door Dash though.

[Jay Lee]

What?

[Eddie Huang]

Why are you.

[Jay Lee]

Cuz he. All of those anti Zoran ads are paid for by Door Dash.

[Unknown]

Cuz he's trying to like make them.

[Jay Lee]

Pay their drivers a living rate.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Jay Lee]

So they're doing a whole campaign. I got all these door knockers.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh, I'm getting off Door Dash too then. I don't know, I'm off New York Times. I'm going to get off Door Dash. Cuz the, the thing too is like, I. I've been comparing Uber to cab prices, and consistently every day, Uber is 30% to 50% more expensive than a cab. Like, I will take the Uber down and then take the cab back to the same location.

[Unknown]

But you know what I think Uber does now that like, airlines.

[Jay Lee]

Do you guys live around here?

[Eddie Huang]

No, we live Murray Hill.

[Jay Lee]

Ah, Murray Hill. Nice.

[Eddie Huang]

So I got to take like $35 cab. Actually, it's a $35 to $40 uber down here and a $20 cab. Yeah, yeah, but what were you going to say?

[Unknown]

No, I just. I think Uber like tracks your movements. Like, I feel like it learns you like an algorithm. Whereas, like, if you were to book a flight on like Google flights, like you Google it and then you go back two hours later, that flight is doubled.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

If you're taking a cab downtown from one spot, they're like, oh, you're going to do it anyway. So we're going to like surge it. Like, I. That's the thing that I've noticed about Uber because sometimes I'll be here going back home and it'll like, already have. Oh, you're going to this location. And it's. And I'm like, oh, you. Yeah, you're a trap.

[Eddie Huang]

You know my movement.

[Jay Lee]

I heard that they're doing something where they will raise your price if they can. They can see your battery percentage. And if you're about to run out of batteries, they're like, this motherfucker needs an Uber now. So we're gonna charge them whatever the fuck we want.

[Eddie Huang]

Yes, I read an article about that.

[Jay Lee]

So evil. I mean, but I. I get too many Ubers.

[Eddie Huang]

But number three. Okay, what's number three?

[Jay Lee]

Number three. Can I pull this up?

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, of course.

[Jay Lee]

The. The. The order.

[Eddie Huang]

I wouldn't remember.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, I should remember. This should be my job or something.

[Eddie Huang]

But Carrie Bradshaw's top 10 New York restaurants. Superiority Burger, number one, noodle pudding.

[Jay Lee]

Oh, noodle pudding. I forgot about noodle pudding.

[Eddie Huang]

Noodle pudding.

[Jay Lee]

Have you guys been to noodle pudding?

[Unknown]

No.

[Eddie Huang]

No.

[Jay Lee]

You're Italian.

[Eddie Huang]

Love Odor 3.

[Jay Lee]

Ha.

[Eddie Huang]

Snack Bar 4. The Four Horsemen 5, which I loved. You put. You put the legend up there. Keen six. Also, I love Maxi's number seven, Ops number eight, Kabawa number nine, and the Grill number ten. Yeah, okay, Sully was your first honorable mention. Thai diner, Booz, Wonton Bridges, all that. This was a phenomenal, phenomenal list, which is Why? I wanted to read it out. And then now we could go back through. Back to noodle pudding.

[Jay Lee]

Noodle pudding.

[Unknown]

What's up with noodles?

[Jay Lee]

I don't even want to blow it up so much because it's like my little special spot. But I'm doing it. It's like, it's an Italian American restaurant. But, like, most Italian American restaurants in New York are, like, have the lens of like a 1950s, 1960s red sauce. Goodfellas red sauce. But this is like 90s, like, super 90s. Like, Italian American. Like, it's like they have shishito peppers with the calamari, but.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh, that's hot.

[Jay Lee]

And they have like.

[Eddie Huang]

Everything is like American psycho Italian.

[Jay Lee]

No, but it's not fancy. This is like a little neighborhood spot by Brooklyn Bridge Park.

[Eddie Huang]

Okay.

[Jay Lee]

But it's. It's. It's so homey. And everything is like, the ingredients they use are amazing. Like, the calamari is the best calamari in New York City, in my opinion. They use fresh squid, and you can taste it. And it's just fried perfectly. And they do a pork chop. It's like a little pink in the middle. But they get it from a farm in New Jersey. They say the name of the farm. It's not expensive, too. Everything costs, like, 20 bucks.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Jay Lee]

They have, like, their martinis, like, are ice cold, and they're like 15 bucks, and they give you a little sidecar with it. Like proper. Proper martini. They have this bottle of wine that I'm obsessed with that's $15. It's. I'm a wine guy. I'm a snob. But this wine is like. Tastes like nothing. It's like being in Italy. Like, you drink the cold. The ice cold white wine.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

Eat your pasta with clams.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

And you just, like, the whole atmosphere is just really so generous.

[Eddie Huang]

I'm a big chilled red guy with food where it's just like. It's an accompaniment.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

You're not really there trying to, like, you can have tasting notes.

[Jay Lee]

You can drink wine that is. Is good that you. You don't always have something so gastronomic. Is it accompaniment to food?

[Eddie Huang]

I actually don't want wine to be that gastronomic with food.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

I'll drink it with you.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

It's like, we're gonna enjoy this bottle of wine, but when we're eating, I think it's just kind of a nice little.

[Jay Lee]

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I like that. But this is just like. It's just such a nice. That's kind of the I was. I guess maybe I was looking at the top my list in a different way where, like, it's restaurants that I want to eat at the most. Yeah, Often.

[Unknown]

But I love that it doesn't always have to be. Like you said, sometimes I don't think it even has to be the best food. It's like the feeling you get eating that food in that setting.

[Jay Lee]

I tried to make the best food also, but it is both very much. But this. The food is very, very good. I guess that's why I didn't put Lou d' or higher, because I don't think that I would. Should allow myself to eat that food as often as the list would. The list spot would imply. Just because it's the most dec. That's the next spot on the list. Number three, the boudoir. It's the most decadent meal in New York City. And they. But it's like you feel like a king. They make you feel like a king. And everyone in the room looks like a king. And you get to. Everyone's a king together. And it's just a really nice time. Every. All the food is like, spot on. But also they have like, little moments of edge where, like, the duck is like a great preparation of duck and it has just like a sprinkling of Szechuan peppercorns. Like, and it doesn't feel like they're trying to do something. They're just. It's just. It's like in a way that's purity Burger experiments. And it's just like, it feels right. Like they are making food that is contemporary, but that has like a really strong root in history. And you can feel all of that. Like.

[Eddie Huang]

No, I like that in a restaurant when it's like we're going to hit it lightly with something like Szechuan peppercorns, but not make it about that and, like, advertise the Szechuan peppercorn Long Island. It's just like. No, it kind of makes sense with this dish. Lightly, it's there. We're not really gonna shout it out.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. We live in a global society. Like, these ingredients are everywhere.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

It doesn't have to be like a. You don't have to be making like a fusion thing. It's just like use the ingredients that taste right.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. Okay. Hot Haas is on here.

[Jay Lee]

This is.

[Eddie Huang]

This is the restaurant I'm going to Saturday with Natasha. No, I haven't been because Anthony was offering me a table at like 10 o' clock and, like, I'm asleep. I'm asleep at 9:30. But I hate him. This week.

[Jay Lee]

I was like, baby, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

I was like, brother, I need one at 5:00'. Clock. 5:30. He's like, I got you. So we're going 5:30 Saturday.

[Jay Lee]

Nice.

[Eddie Huang]

Talk to us about why you like Haas.

[Jay Lee]

I don't know. I've been a big fan of Haas. This is where, like, we talk about, like, I admit every time that I'm biased, you know, like, they're my people. They are literally my neighbors. We share a wall. Oh, I'm. Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh, you live here?

[Jay Lee]

No, no, we're neighbors in a bed Stuy.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh, word. That's what's up.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. So if you want to find me, look for the. Their Mercedes. Vintage.

[Eddie Huang]

Hey, yo.

[Jay Lee]

I didn't want to dox the car. I was about to see the license plate, but then I was like, I'm.

[Unknown]

Not gonna dox it.

[Eddie Huang]

I'm not about to docs.

[Jay Lee]

But they. They're my homies. But also, I think that they're doing some of the most. Like, their food is just so high impact. Like, they're not trying to, like, and it's not high impact in a way that it's like, trying like, that it's trying too hard. And sometimes you can feel that when, like, they are so the flavors that Anthony does and Sadie, they, like, really walk a razor's edge with, like, they bring it to the point where it's like, it should be almost too much, but it never goes over the line. And then they do things that are just so pretty and soft sometimes at the same time. Like, the risotto is just like perfectly cooked poached chicken and like, these little shrimps. And then you'll get something that's like, smacks your face off with fish sauce, but just enough and there's enough sugar to like, have it feel like a pleasant.

[Eddie Huang]

It's so funny. It's like love. Odor and Haas are two restaurants I've experienced through the Internet, through photos, through people's stories, through people's oral telling of the restaurant that I'm like, I feel like I've been there and it's fly.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

And it's like, you know, Haas especially just feels like a restaurant. Like a band that enjoys playing as a band right now.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

You know, like, they just enjoy playing music. Then you see some restaurants that, like, kind of over the hill and that band just doesn't even want to play music.

[Jay Lee]

That's a. Yeah. They're very young and just like, they have so much energy and you can feel the energy, taste the energy.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. And level door for me is like that ticket that's like a little more expensive, a little more work to get a res. And I'm saving it for like a special occasion for us to go.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

So it's like, I like to save certain restaurants for, like the moment of life where I can experience and enjoy.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

You know.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. I will say, I mean, it's good for a special occasion. It's also nice to have special occasions just randomly.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

That's why I was like, Saturday night, 5:30 in the summer, you're going to.

[Jay Lee]

Have a great time.

[Eddie Huang]

Like, that's going to be cute.

[Jay Lee]

But. Yeah, that's a good point. They just. They're young and you can tell. And I was like. When I saw it on the times list, they were number five. I was like, this is a little, like, maybe it's too soon. Maybe some. Like. It's crazy that there's so many new restaurants on the top 10. Like, how can that be? Yeah.

[Unknown]

You feel like you have to, like, kind of sit with it for a little bit.

[Eddie Huang]

They're in a special era. I'll say this. I don't. I don't think restaurants have to be around for multiple years to be fire. Sometimes a band or a restaurant comes out the gates guns blazing. Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

So it's like, you can't deny that they are the moment. So why even pretend? And they're making food that I want to eat more than all of these other more heralded places.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. Like when we came out, Legai wrote about us and there's just line down the block. Because it was like, there's this crazy guy that used to sell me weed and now is making guava. You know what I mean? It was just like, I. I don't think my. I would say this. The first year I worked the hardest. I just wanted it. And everyone was excited to be there and work and do the thing and. And it was never the same as the first.

[Jay Lee]

It's always hard to maintain that level of energy.

[Eddie Huang]

It's so hard.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. And they're about to open a new spot, too. Like, I'm like, you guys are.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Eddie Huang]

So I give people their flowers.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Now.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Like, give Scorsese the Oscar for Goodfellas. You know, like, don't wait till it's.

[Jay Lee]

Some of the best food in New York right now. Like, I don't. You don't need to, like, like have. I don't know. I don't want to, like, Pay dues type of like, it's. They're the best. They're making some of the best food, period.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. And I. I haven't been. I, like, I never stress people for res. I hit Anthony this morning. Like, am like, brother, come on, man. Come on, come on. But, yeah, he's cool.

[Jay Lee]

So.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, I'm really excited.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

There are a lot of really exciting things happening in food.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

In New York that I haven't been excited about food here since I think maybe 2016. Like right around the wild air time.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Was around the time I was like, all right, that restaurant.

[Jay Lee]

I get it.

[Eddie Huang]

Cool. I think Four Horsemen was the last restaurant that I was like, that was really. That's really cool. That's really different.

[Jay Lee]

And yeah. Yeah. I still feel that way. I guess it's further down. Is that next on my list? It might be next.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh, yeah. Four Horsemen was the next one.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

That was the last time. I was like, yo, that's exciting. That's a new idea.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

You know.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. But I. The thing is, I haven't been in a segment that's hard to get a reservation. Get me one. I was saying it's hard. I haven't been in like a year or something, but I still. Every time I eat there, I'm like, wow, this is like, this is what I want from contemporary cuisine. This is like everything. It's always seasonal. They're always trying new things. But then it also feels like. Like it's like grounded in something. And it's always delicious and goes well in. Their wine list is crazy. Like.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. I mean, they started orange wine.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

You know, like, I hate orange wine. I'm gonna be on the record. I don't really. Orange wine.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

I like burgundy, but like, that's annoying to say.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

But like, they started orange wine. They started orange wine. Small plates. And then come dance next door.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, I used to take an issue. No, I don't as much with night moves because I'm like, I remember when they first opened and it was like, you have to be on a list.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh, yeah.

[Jay Lee]

I was like. I was like, it's Tuesday.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

And they're like, and I'm in Brooklyn and they're asking me at the door. It's empty in there. Or there's like five 45 year old men dancing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're not letting me in.

[Eddie Huang]

And they were all making. I mean, I was like, James Murphy beats.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. Like, come on. Like, we're in Brooklyn. But I like it. It's a nice space.

[Eddie Huang]

They always took care of me, always got in. But you got in there and it was like old music producers.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dudes.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So. But night moves became a lot more democratic, I feel like.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, it was. I think that what you're saying about being excited about food in New York, I feel like we're reaching like the fruits of like all of these like things that blossomed during COVID or right postco, like all these pop ups and like little things that were like popping up places or like people were dreading it in their house. And like I think that we're getting the, we're finally getting the fruits of all these or the like real restaurants of all these things. Which is such an exciting thing to be like, oh, actually like you can have a restaurant in New York City. Like you can make this, you could like, you don't have to be like a chef like that. Or you can have a different model that's not the model of like, like a big restaurant group model. Like you can have a little spot, you can do your own little thing. And I feel like that kind of entrepreneurism and industrialism came out of this post Covid era, which has been so exciting. I think that's what the big change in New York has been.

[Unknown]

Well, we've had this conversation. I think we were literally on a walk the other day saying this. And it just feels like Indy is back. And even in film, even in tv, there's just more interesting independent thought being rewarded. Where for a while it felt very like commercial and it just a rich person's game.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, this is really a rich person's game. And it felt like you had to be with major food group or something or like the corner store, like blockbuster restaurants. Like that's what's going to work. It's the same thing in film was happening in restaurants where people were scared of the small restaurant or the mid sized restaurant. But like watching like Shy, you know, like Shy doing Shy's Burgers, Anthony doing.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

You know, it's like now it's back to what the Lower east side used to be about, which was like young people taking every single dollar they had and throwing it into like a seven foot foldable table that they got from Home Depot. And it's like, I'm gonna put my, all my money and my entire like life and blood onto this pop up right now. Yeah, that shit was fire.

[Jay Lee]

I mean, do you think, I wonder though, like how many years we have before everyone sells out.

[Unknown]

Well, I think it's a cycle though.

[Jay Lee]

I can't wait to cycle.

[Eddie Huang]

I'll tell you the last time I saw Pete Wells I was on a folding table at Brooklyn Fair making lion's head meatballs.

[Jay Lee]

Nice.

[Eddie Huang]

I was enhancing place just cooking off a folding table.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

And like I had homies that were doing it too. Like, you know, like it was an exciting time. But usually I would say it goes like five or six years.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

And then one of one person will sell out and get a deal that is like exciting. And then most people will follow. Like I felt like my contemporaries at the time. David Chang was older.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Right. Me and Danny Bowen were tight and close in age. Andy Ricker.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

And it was just like, you know, some of us up the bag and then some people went and you know, took money from private equity. You know what I'm saying? So it's like it just happens and people get old. But I do like seeing like when Andy pops back into the city and he cooks and Danny's doing his thing again.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

I'm getting back. It's just like I think the people who love it never really leave.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. That's true.

[Eddie Huang]

But people do sell out.

[Jay Lee]

Yes. No, no, no, no shade against people. That's selling out. You're not shaming them.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

I can't wait to sell out. We're all.

[Eddie Huang]

Life journey is interesting. The life journey, it's really, really cool. Like now that I'm 43 and I was like a rebellious 27 year old opening a restaurant.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, of course.

[Eddie Huang]

The 16 to 16 years, man. It's like cool to land back in the kitchen.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah. That's so fun. That's amazing to see. Yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

And you still. I still just like. I love it.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

I miss this shit.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Want to shred. It'll happen with all these other guys.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Girls takes.

[Jay Lee]

People go through ups and downs of like interests.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

I don't know. It's a weird thing.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. But I do think it was a blockbuster business for 10 years almost.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

You know, because when. When did Four Horsemen open? That was an experience.

[Jay Lee]

Was it 10 years ago this year?

[Unknown]

16 maybe.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, I think it might have been. There's an anniversary just the other day.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

Superiority Burger 10 year anniversary yesterday.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, yeah. So I feel like it was like Four horsemen. Superiority Alto Paradiso. That was kind of like for me the end of like. Interesting.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

And then restaurants just got bigger from there.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Too much money. And food.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

A lot of shit started to get really bad after 2016, though. You know, I felt that in my head. I know everyone always says that was the last good summer.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. It's like.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

But also, like, it was the last time before, like, Fetty Wap was.

[Jay Lee]

That's.

[Unknown]

The Internet was. I think it was obviously prevalent, but it was before it was like the only thing. And, like, the Internet, I think on that cusp of 2016, 2017, became like, more of your reality than your actual real life. Like, that was the shift for me.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And everything started to suck.

[Eddie Huang]

Everything started.

[Unknown]

Everything's starting to suck less right now.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. I mean, Zo Run.

[Unknown]

I know. Like, I'm just like, there's so many things to be excited about. So many restaurants, like films, politics. Like, things are feeling. Well, Zo Ron, not politics. But yeah, things are feeling exciting again.

[Eddie Huang]

It's ramping up. I'm like, hype. I'm big hype on New York. I'm bullish on New York.

[Jay Lee]

I'm feeling great. Yeah. I'm like, yeah. So many new restaurants. Just went to this new restaurant, Bong. That's Crown Cambodia. They're good friends with Haas. It's great.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

By my house. Yeah. There's so much exciting. Like, so much.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. That's an interesting one too, I think it's like, you have to book it privately. And so now that.

[Jay Lee]

Now they're doing Razzie finally.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh, word. Word.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

But yeah, there's just like, a lot of interesting new business models. A lot of diy, like, DIY culture being back is. I think New York and DIY is synonymous.

[Unknown]

Totally.

[Eddie Huang]

And that's why when Zoron's running and people are like, the billionaires are leaving. We're taking this. Like, get the fuck out. Like, leave now. Don't wait. Just leave. So that was exciting to see this morning. The headlines that, like, New York Post was like, the billionaires.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. But I, like, I'd like to. I'd hope to, or like to think that I'm part of that kind of DIY movement or that my writing is like. I guess I'm not actually independent.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, for sure. Have you seen my man? Hold up. Have you seen the presentation of your article? This is definitely diy. This looks like it's awesome.

[Unknown]

I love that about it.

[Eddie Huang]

This is awesome. It looks like a post it note. You know what I mean?

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

It's intentionally diy and like, the way you write, it's just fire.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And the way you like Photograph things is really interesting and cool too.

[Eddie Huang]

It's not institutional. You're not beholden into anything.

[Unknown]

Yeah. You're your own.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. You're a little deranged, dog. It's.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, I've been trying to like, figure that out, like, because the thing is, I guess what's different about me as opposed to a lot of food writers is that I'm like, actually kind of in the food world. Like, I, A lot of these people are my friends. Like, I do feel like, like I like to write a bad review. I love to write a slam piece, but I do feel like, like a sense of guilt surrounding it. Like, I'm like, I don't really want to hurt anyone's bag, honestly. Like, I support all bags, big and small.

[Unknown]

I feel that, but also.

[Jay Lee]

And people's jobs. But I'm just trying. I don't. I never try to punch down. I only try to.

[Eddie Huang]

No. Yeah. I feel like the, the thing with the, the, the takedown article, the way I've always felt is the way we were when we were stealing things as kids.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Never steal from a mom and pop.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

There's no reason to write a takedown article about a mom and pop or someone like trying to make it first time, you know?

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

That's always interesting to me when people like slam a first time director. You know, it's like, dog, like everybody's figuring, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you were to go, you know, slam a restaurant that's doing 10 mil a year, I, I think that's fitting.

[Jay Lee]

I wanted to ask you about your, your Times review there.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, no problem.

[Jay Lee]

Sam Sifton, right?

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, yeah, Sam, like infamous zero star review.

[Jay Lee]

Lots of wrestlers get zero stars, but I guess I don't do that so much. But like, how pissed were you?

[Eddie Huang]

You know, it was interesting reading it because it's the fakest zero star review ever.

[Jay Lee]

I read it today and I'm like, sounds sick. It sounds like it was ahead of its time.

[Eddie Huang]

Yes.

[Jay Lee]

Literally, the Times and New York Magazine are rushing to write. They're like scooping each other, writing about crunchwrap Supremes at restaurants. And I feel like that, like your restaurant feels like what, like a lot of restaurants feel like now.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jay Lee]

He's like, yeah. I don't know. I also felt like weirdly racially coded in strange ways that I was not entirely comfortable with.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, it was, it was interesting because it. Sam, I think, wrote it. I felt like this, this, this was his thing. And I, I've Never, actually. I don't. At the time, when I was doing my thing, I was very critical of the food establishment. I was very anti establishment. A lot of chefs didn't like me. A lot of purveyors didn't like me. And, like, Tony Bourdain was fucking with me. And so, like, I think everyone was like, fuck this guy. And I think Sam found a few reasons on his visits to be like, you know what? These are? These are reasonable, legit reasons to take this kid down.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

And, like, let's see if he gets back up, you know, like, because it was like, you're in the dining room. I'm like, yeah, I know you're on your phone. Like, who's not on there?

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. It's like, the whole thing. I was like, reading it through the lens. What year was that? 2010.

[Eddie Huang]

2010?

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. I'm, like, reading it 15 years later. I'm like, that sounds like what everybody does all day. Like, it sounds like. Like a normal. Like, yeah, cool.

[Eddie Huang]

He was like, yo, the mince pork stews fire. The pot stickers are fire.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

I memorized this review.

[Jay Lee]

I haven't seen Gochu Chang grilled cheese. Like, that's not enough to make a diner food. Like, get rid of that. And it's like, that's, like, what everybody does now.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

Except it's white people.

[Unknown]

The sentiment was the food was fire.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. Yeah. It's like. Except that he's too cool and popular.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah. One of the few people that I remember hitting me up around that time on some, like, keep your chin up was like, Danny Bowen. It was like, dude, I don't. I haven't gone. Because he was, I think, in the bay at the time, but was like, this shit looks crazy. And like, I'm a do Beijing peanuts too, you know? And, like, I love Danny for that because he was always. He would always kind of, like, encourage me with shit like that. But, yeah, no, I definitely felt I was being penalized for being a youth cultural restaurant.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

I didn't follow the rules of old people at that time. I didn't care. I wasn't beholden. We were also, like, people were coming.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

You know, and ultimately the Zero Star heard us. And then the Four Loco party I threw in response is what was the.

[Jay Lee]

Nail on the coffee.

[Eddie Huang]

But that was kind of legendary.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. Everyone talks about the Four Loco. And now, like, if you did that, like, that's like. That's like the comeback. That's like, yeah, that's having a comeback right now. It's like every, like, indie sleaze, like, they're like, oh, four local party at.

[Unknown]

The, like, we should throw a four local party.

[Eddie Huang]

I got crucified for shit that everybody loves now.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, I know. It's kind of cool.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

It's hard to be early.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. But how him were you, like, did you feel mad at him? Like, personally, like, if you saw him on the street, would you be like, what the fuck?

[Eddie Huang]

No. You know, because I am a bit of a. I really, really just want to do well. Right?

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

And there was one thing he criticized, which was the crock pot spare rib or something I made. There was like, something braised. And I remembered the day he came in that there was like, a dish that I was like, was that over braised? Was that like that. That breakdown a little too much? It was like, beyond fork tender. It criticized me for that. And it was funny. I was like, that's the one thing I will cop to.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

I remember that one dish going out.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

And my mom chewed me out and sent me this wild email after, and I was just like, all right, it. It. You know what? Like, if you think the restaurant's terrible and you're the critic, I was like, I'll just cop to it. Yeah, my bad. And, like, because it hurt business and I felt really bad for our investors, and I was just like, I'm just gonna. I will just eat it. I'll eat it. So I wrote this post, and the funniest thing about that review, it was karmically, like, the best thing that happened to my life.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Because I put up my mom's email also trashing me. And then I think Eater picked it up, and people picked it up. And then an agent called me and was like, yo, sorry about this review, but do you want to write a cookbook? And I was like, no, I don't want to write a cookbook. I want to write a memoir about, like, growing up Asian in America.

[Jay Lee]

Wait, so that's how Fresh off the Boat happened. Holy.

[Eddie Huang]

So it's kind of like one of those things where someone tried to stab me. I was like, here's your knife back.

[Unknown]

I guess life's about, you know, you have to alchemize your. Like when some happens and you can and turn that into. Yeah, what you did with art. It's incredible.

[Eddie Huang]

I like. Thanks, Sam Sifton. Because without that, like, we don't have Fresh out the shout out.

[Unknown]

Sam.

[Jay Lee]

That's crazy.

[Eddie Huang]

It was crazy.

[Jay Lee]

That's a great origin story.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, it was a really insane era too. It's like that restaurant was open for two months. We were party. Everybody loved it. And then the 4 loco party happens. And people were driving for that party from Syracuse from, like, Toronto.

[Jay Lee]

Crazy though.

[Unknown]

That's wild.

[Jay Lee]

Four Locos should be. It is. They made it.

[Unknown]

Yeah, they did.

[Jay Lee]

Like, I was like, well, they were like, we've changed the ingredients.

[Eddie Huang]

People were crawling into the tree outside and then puking from, like, the second limb of the tree. Someone got hit by the ceiling.

[Jay Lee]

Project X.

[Eddie Huang]

There is my. My homegirl thought she was locked in the bathroom and freaked out and then bum rushed it, knocked the door over, and then realized it was a sliding door. So it was legendary. It hurt. It really hurt my feelings at the time. I'm a cop to it.

[Jay Lee]

It. Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

But the slingshot from the review was within, like, three weeks. And I was like, whoa. Shout out, Sam.

[Jay Lee]

Damn.

[Eddie Huang]

You know.

[Jay Lee]

Well, here's to, like, every bad review that I write turning into a successful book. I don't think that'll be the case.

[Eddie Huang]

But we can pretend, you know.

[Jay Lee]

Wow.

[Eddie Huang]

Taught me a big lesson. I learned a lot from it.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Whether it's correct or not, I definitely learned a lot and was like, I'm gonna take this more seriously.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

You know, but, yeah, I thought the restaurant was ahead of its time.

[Jay Lee]

It sounds like it was in the review. Reading it now.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, yeah. But it's. It was. I. I thought one of the funnier takedown pieces.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, yeah, it was. It's a memorable one. I think that people. These people need to revisit it.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll throw it back up.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Eddie Huang]

Well, actually, I don't own it, so. Yeah.

[Unknown]

I was like, should we print it out and hang it on the wall? The new spot.

[Eddie Huang]

Ye. Actually, that is a good idea. We should do that.

[Jay Lee]

You could have framed.

[Eddie Huang]

We should do that. Yep. Get a photo of you framed and be like, look out for this guy.

[Jay Lee]

It's funny.

[Eddie Huang]

That would be funny. I love inside jokes at restaurants.

[Jay Lee]

I heard that, like, yeah, I'm not even that big, but like, I heard.

[Eddie Huang]

But that's.

[Jay Lee]

Someone was looking for, like, asking around for pictures of me.

[Unknown]

Oh, really?

[Jay Lee]

Yeah, like a restaurant PR guy.

[Eddie Huang]

Oh, that's wild.

[Jay Lee]

Was like, asking around for pictures of me, but I guess. Nice. Got it.

[Unknown]

Start, like, sending people. Ran random, like, throwing them off.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Like just sending, like, stock photos of people.

[Jay Lee]

When I was in high school, I had like, a little New Yorker cartoon that was. It was really. It's a Long story, but I had a cartoon of me in the New Yorker and I posted it. That was like the only photo of me that I posted. It was a cartoon, though. And then I met this person that I hadn't met in real life, and he's like, whoa, I thought you were skinny.

[Eddie Huang]

That's.

[Unknown]

That's so shady.

[Jay Lee]

I was wearing like, a jacket.

[Eddie Huang]

Turns out you're juicy. Turns out he's very juicy.

[Jay Lee]

Come on.

[Unknown]

That's great.

[Eddie Huang]

That dude.

[Jay Lee]

No, no, it was kidding. We were friends. It was funny.

[Eddie Huang]

I saw an article that, like, men's. Men's asses are in.

[Unknown]

They are fat. Asses are in for men.

[Eddie Huang]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

Didn't. Where'd you read that?

[Eddie Huang]

Gq.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jay Lee]

Really? Yeah, I was gonna. I was thinking, like, one of those little things that's on the bottom of like a web page.

[Eddie Huang]

Protect yourself this summer, bro.

[Unknown]

Mainstream.

[Eddie Huang]

Tuck that dumper.

[Unknown]

Dump trucks on men. And I've. I'm a. I'm a fan.

[Jay Lee]

How do you work on that? Squats.

[Eddie Huang]

I think just eating our diet is conducive to it. I've always had a little, you know.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Little booty.

[Eddie Huang]

Little juicy booty. But this has been great, man. Really, really incredible conversation.

[Jay Lee]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Thank you for the juicy party.

[Jay Lee]

Oh, no, I hope you're good.

[Eddie Huang]

Keep the crazy reviews up, man. Thanks. For real. My favorite food writer right now. For real?

[Unknown]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Jay Lee]

Thanks.

[Eddie Huang]

Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now, and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L, I B S Y N ads.com today.