← Canal Street Dreams
Canal Street Dreams
Laurie Woolever: Canal Street Dreams Ep. 1
00:54:27
In this episode of Canal Street Dreams, Eddie Huang sits down with Laurie Woolever for a candid conversation about power dynamics, navigating male-dominated spaces, and the lifelong process of self-understanding. Drawing from her book Care and...
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- [00:00]
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- [00:31]
Eddie Huang
Yo, welcome back. Canal Street Dreams episode three. You've made it this far and this week we have a really, really special guest. I've known the author of Karen Feeding a memoir, Lori Wooliver, for a really long time through our friendship with Tony. And Lori has been a really key figure in the New York food scene for, I'd say two and a half decades. She talks about all of it in this book. And in so many ways this book is incredible as a time capsule of the early aughts food scene. Moving from like Food Network to travel to CNN to places like Vice, the advent of the chef driven restaurant. Just the evolution of the New York food scene. If you're interested in that, this is a time capsule of it. But more than anything, Lori, what really interested me about this book, and I found the most special is you're writing about intimacy and attraction and where it comes from in the like kelp farm depths of humanity. You know, like the way you talk about your attraction to some of the cooks at Babo and the random people you met in Japan, like the old guy that gave you a foot massage. It, it's, it's like Sally Rooney level investigation of intimacy and what drives us but from real life. And it was extremely powerful to read.
- [02:13]
Lori Wooliver
Wow, thank you. No one has made that comparison, but I will totally take it if you want to throw in some Miranda July too.
- [02:20]
Eddie Huang
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, there's definitely some Miranda July in terms of lifestyle.
- [02:24]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great. Yeah. I mean that, that is, that's what drove me for a long, long time. You know, fueled by alcohol, fueled by marital unhappiness. But even before that, you know, it's just sort of like who's gonna love me? You know, who's gonna pay attention to me?
- [02:40]
Eddie Huang
Yeah. If I was a film producer, I would say this is this, this is the investigation of intimacy, like normal people, the lifestyle of like on all fours Set in the New York dining scene.
- [02:53]
Lori Wooliver
Wow. All right, let's make a film.
- [02:56]
Eddie Huang
Yeah, well, let's make a film. But, yeah, I mean, what got you to write this book, first of all?
- [03:01]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah. You know, these are stories that I've been sort of accumulating, retelling, living, wanting to do something with for a long time. And I remember reaching out to you after your book was published, because I was just, like, floored by the honesty and this, you know, the risks that you took, talking about your family, talking about, you know, uncomfortable stuff. And I always wanted to do something like that, you know, starting with cooking school and working for Mario Batali and, you know, all the adventures that I had along the way. But I felt like I can't do that. You know, I got this mom who's, like, paying attention to everything I do, and I keep a lot of secrets from her. And then, of course, how would I ever write about Mario? So, you know, it came down to, like, it's 2021. I had published World Travel and Irreverent Guide, which was co authored with Tony, and then Bourdain, the definitive oral biography, which was about him. So the decks were cleared, and I had this good relationship with the publisher, and I was like, well, all right, this is the time if I'm gonna do this. This is the book I've always wanted to write. My mom died in 2021, so it was like, well, all right, I don't have to worry about her reactions anymore. And Mario was no longer kind of a terrifying, I don't know, Mafia boss scaring the shit out of me. And it was like, all right, I'm gonna do it. And so I wrote the proposal. I found one publisher that was willing to take a chance on it, and I did it, and was scary, you know, I mean, I still have a kid. I still have my ex husband, and my dad's still around, but it was like. I remember what you said. It was like, you just have to be honest. You just have to, like, be true to your story. And, you know, hopefully the people that love you will still love you at, you know, when it's over.
- [04:45]
Eddie Huang
Yeah. I knew you through Tony. I didn't really know you that personally, but I. You know, it. The honesty in this comes through. And I felt like a kindred spirit reading this because of your relationship with your mother. It's almost like you do a really good job of hiding the spinach of it early on, because it's like a bit of a mystery, like, why is Lori letting These things happen to her, like, through the whole book. You hurt yourself over and over and over. And to hear you say that in 2021, it's. After your mother passed, it's almost like you were serving your mother until you couldn't serve her anymore and you started to serve yourself.
- [05:25]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah, I never thought about it that way. I mean, I think I was only partially or not at all aware that I was self destructive. You know, I was like, I'm having a good time. I'm making experiences. I'm living my life. I'm like, doing all this stuff that I. If I don't do it, I'm gonna regret not doing it. And only later was it like, oh, some of that was really fucked up, you know?
- [05:47]
Eddie Huang
Yeah. But also there's this undercurrent of you serving people like Karen, you know, like, it's like taking care of Mario despite the way Mario treated everybody that you didn't approve of. And then in a way, serving Tony and serving your relationship. And do you feel the book is one of the first times you stepped out to, like, serve yourself?
- [06:11]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah, I mean, it definitely takes a level of self seeking or, you know, ego looking for ego fulfillment, whatever it is, to be like, I've got an interesting story to tell and I'm gonna write a book and I'm gonna get a major publisher to pay attention to it. It's like, that's a level of kind of. I don't say self confidence, but something like that. And, yeah, self seeking. I guess you could say that. I don't think I had before, you know, was like, well, maybe I don't. I've always wanted to write this story, but the desire to protect other people is always gonna win out. So I think, yeah, once some of those obstacles are out of the way, it's like, yeah, I'm going to. I'm going to do this for myself. Because this is the book that, you know, if I've always thought, like, what's the. What's the one thing that you want to do that you would regret not doing if you got, like a terminal diagnosis and couldn't work anymore? And it was this book, you know, so now I got to figure out what to do with the rest of my life?
- [07:08]
Eddie Huang
No, I mean, I think this is just the beginning. I want to ask you later what's next and what you want to write about next? Because I'm very curious about that. The writing. The writing is really phenomenal in here. I want to read some passages later, but I would also Be curious to ask, like, you know, I felt you were quite fair to everyone in this book. The depiction of people is quite fair. You incriminate yourself a lot. How. What was the arc? Let's start with Mario Batali. What was the arc of your, like, impression of him? It. In the beginning, he's like this benefactor introducing you to editors, giving you your first stable job, getting you out of an apart, out of an apartment with bedbugs.
- [07:49]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [07:50]
Eddie Huang
And you kind of got stability through that job, but you traded a lot as well.
- [07:55]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah, well, I think from the jump, he was showing me who he was for better and worse. I mean, there was never somebody. One of the times asked me, you know, what. How did you reconcile the two Marios? And there weren't two Marios. There was one guy, and he had great qualities, and he had really shitty qualities. And, like, my first job interview with him, he just didn't show up. And he didn't tell me he wasn't going to show up. He just. Yeah, I showed up to be interviewed at Bobbo, and the bartender is like, oh, sorry. He went home to have dinner with his kids. You know, and you can't fault a guy for wanting to have dinner with his kids. But it's like, well, okay, you could have called me, you know, and then my first day on the job, he's like, talking about my thighs and you know, just kind of. Kind of just being the sort of like, super horny guy that he is, or was, I assume he still is horny. I don't know. So it was always everything that he showed me and. And. But I want. I did want to be really fair and say, like, yeah, this guy was a little gross and a little grabby, but also.
- [08:55]
Eddie Huang
Right.
- [08:55]
Lori Wooliver
He. He used his connections to help me. He could be generous. He's so smart. He could be hilarious. He could be a really good time, a really good hang, you know, and if you were down for it, it's like, great. This guy wants to pick up the check for dinner and all these drinks and, you know, take me on these different trips. I mean, I'm working my ass off, but I get to go to Aspen or, you know, Australia. Like, that's pretty cool for. Especially for somebody who's in their mid-20s and has no money, you know, and.
- [09:23]
Eddie Huang
There'S a passage in here I want to read. It's in the chapter coke can Dick had. He really expected me to cuddle with him in the first five minutes of my first day on the job? I mean, I'll Admit I was flattered that he found my plump thighs appealing because to me, they had always been a lethal liability. It would take me many more years to understand that it had nothing to do with my sex appeal. It was a power flex. He was testing my boundaries. This was the real job interview. Just like him standing me up that Thursday. That had been the real job interview. How did you figure that out about Mario? Did you figure it out in the moment, or is this looking back?
- [10:02]
Lori Wooliver
No, I don't. I think it took me. Definitely took me getting out of the job and then just growing up and being aware of just kind of, you know, years and years of therapy and. And just understanding even that power dynamics were at play. You know, I was young and totally naive and was just sort of like, I didn't know. You know, I think a lot, in a lot of ways, I don't think I really understood it till I sat down to write about it, you know, and really understood, you know, the whole 2017 MeToo movement. Mario was a big face of that. And I think it was only then that I started to understand how much power had to do with it. And, like, you know, sex was the currency, but really it was power, you know?
- [10:44]
Eddie Huang
Yeah.
- [10:45]
Lori Wooliver
And that explained why, you know, people would be like, why didn't those women just quit? Why didn't they speak up? You know, it's like this dude holds all the power, not only for the job that I currently have, but in this city that I want to keep working in, you know, and he. I knew that he had made it very clear to people that if you betrayed him in any number of ways, I mean, it's very. It's very Trump, you know, if you crossed him, that he would make sure that you didn't get to work again. You know, he would tell all his friends. And I saw it happen. I mean, a woman was a hostess. I'm getting riled up now. This woman was a very good hostess. Two nights a week, she was the maitre d. And she was ready to grow and have a, you know, be a full time maitre d. And she got offered a job at a new place that was maybe five blocks away from Babo. And he squashed it. He was like, I will, you know, if. If that guy hires you, I will make sure that nobody eats at that restaurant. And so the guy rescinded her job offer because he was terrified of Mario.
- [11:39]
Eddie Huang
Yeah, Mario. And a lot of men in this era, I think, ran their businesses and their lives like. Like mob bosses, like gangsters, like My dad is. Was a gangster in Taiwan. Like, I grew up with around them. I was familiar with this. And what Mario seemed to be doing was he would target people that needed his power and needed his access. And in exchange, it was like, you're going to stomach the way that I operate.
- [12:08]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [12:09]
Eddie Huang
You're going to allow me to be me. You're going to have very few boundaries with me. But in a way, that was the qualification to work with him, that you were going to allow him to treat you in this manner.
- [12:23]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [12:23]
Eddie Huang
And then if you at any moment stuck up for yourself or thought to be independent or say something, it was like, you're disloyal. Now I'm going to guilt you. Now I'm going to gaslight you. And, you know, Shane Smith is very much the same way. Like, vice was run very much the same way. You know, they hired a lot of people who had no employment. Mobility. Like, the. The saddest part about a lot of things. Advice is once it all fell apart, a lot of the people couldn't get jobs elsewhere because they only knew how to work at vice. And Shane liked it that way because then you can control people.
- [12:59]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [12:59]
Eddie Huang
And they don't speak up.
- [13:01]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah. God, it's so fucked up.
- [13:03]
Eddie Huang
Yeah.
- [13:04]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah, it's. And I saw with people who did establish a boundary with him early on, in some cases, he was like, all right, I get it. You don't want me to touch you. You know, but there was always a little bit of a. Irritation, a little bit of a. Like, if somebody was gonna, you know, get cut, they would be the first ones to get cut, you know, or, you know, there was a woman who was not attractive, according to Mario, and, you know, he was. And he let her know. He was like, yeah, you're not my type. Or, you know, I would never want to fuck you or whatever. And she said, well, I never was sexually harassed. Like, that is sexual harassment. You know, if your employment is dependent on whether or not the boss wants to you, like, that's sexual harassment.
- [13:41]
Eddie Huang
Yeah. I'll tell you, there was weird advice, too. I think a lot of these men that when they walk through life and no one tells them no, they just want to test everyone's boundaries. And, like, even me as a man, it's not the same. As a woman, the power dynamic is completely off. But Shane would grab my ass and be like. And just blow a kiss in me to be like, is Eddie gonna let me do that? Like, he's a star on the network. He has an hour long Show. But can I still do shit like this to him?
- [14:13]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [14:13]
Eddie Huang
And honestly, I let it happen because I was just like, it's not worth fighting this dude.
- [14:18]
Lori Wooliver
Right.
- [14:19]
Eddie Huang
I already have two felonies, but I. I clocked it.
- [14:23]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [14:23]
Eddie Huang
And I was just like, somebody someday is going to make you pay for a lot of this.
- [14:28]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [14:29]
Eddie Huang
Because this is just. You're just crossing people's boundaries, like, way too far.
- [14:34]
Lori Wooliver
Right, right. It's that go along to get along thing. But I mean, I suppose your film kind of is the last you to that guy.
- [14:41]
Eddie Huang
Yeah. Who knew? I'd like somebody would put the gun in my hand.
- [14:44]
Lori Wooliver
But yeah, it's great though. I mean, what a. What a great feeling that must be. I don't know if you've heard from. I mean, any people ask me like, has. Have you heard from Mario? And like, I didn't write this book to say you tomorrow. No, you actually didn't.
- [14:56]
Eddie Huang
You were very kind to him. You reiterate many, many times how much he did for you.
- [15:00]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [15:01]
Eddie Huang
Even though it is a mind control technique to keep you loyal to him. And I mean, he tried to blackball everybody.
- [15:11]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I was. Wanted to be very honest because I think in 2017, when everything went down and it was like, I don't know, this sort of gets into like a territory that I'm not. I don't necessarily espouse this sort of like the, you know, the woke left. Like, I don't. That's a sort of position. But I do think that it was very difficult to speak with any kind of nuance around this stuff, you know, for you to. For me to say in any kind of public way, like, yeah, this guy really sucks. And yeah, he grabbed my ass. And I totally believe these allegations of sexual assault. He was good to me. You know, I had a good time at that job. And he's actually really smart and funny. Like, there was no room for it. Nobody wanted to hear that. And I get that, you know, it's like, who cares if your rapist is, you know, a good guy? Like, he's a fucking rapist. Allegedly. But I did feel like there was something missing. There was kind of a chilling of the speech around, the nuance and every. And the whole context of how this was allowed to happen or how this happened or how he got away with it for so long is that it wasn't like. I mean, he wasn't. He wasn't Harvey Weinstein, you know, he wasn't Jeffrey Dahmer. He was a Guy in a context with employees doing bad things, doing good things. And this is what it was like.
- [16:26]
Eddie Huang
You're. You're hitting on. Something that I find really, really interesting is that post 2016, it does become a very, like, liberal woke manhunt for people like this. And it. Cancel, cancel, cancel.
- [16:41]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [16:42]
Eddie Huang
And anytime people spoke up to try to have nuance about it, you got shut down. It was like you were in the way of the movement. But in actuality, books like this and the nuanced way in which you explore power dynamics with people like Mario who completely cross boundaries, it's more helpful to society because I don't think you're going to get rid of these people. I think by talking about it and being more open. People who are exposed to it have resources to combat it and do something about it. And I also, in this weird way, I worked at the Innocence Project and we did a lot of work in favor of rehabilitating inmates instead of just locking them up forever. Giving people a chance to reintegrate into society, I think is an important idea to have. And in criminal law, it's a liberal idea. Now in the media, it's a, it's a conservative idea. I try not to have too much allegiance to either side now because I see how it's used. But we have to have a more nuanced, complete view of these monsters so that perhaps they can rehabilitate and perhaps we can, like, stick up for ourselves because we can't always count on someone canceling them and putting them in jail for us. Like, it's, it perpetuates itself.
- [18:13]
Lori Wooliver
Right.
- [18:13]
Eddie Huang
And when you keep pushing it down, it's gonna explode. It really will explode.
- [18:19]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I would ask though, like, what's the limit? Like, do I want Harvey Weinstein back out on the streets? No. You know, no.
- [18:27]
Eddie Huang
There's a limit for a guy like that.
- [18:28]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [18:29]
Eddie Huang
I think also with Mario, I would say that I think he fully crossed the limit. You know, Mario, from, from reading your book, he fully crossed the limit. But I still think your portrait of him is so valuable for any young man or woman in a job with an imbalance of power, which any young person is going to experience. Unless you're a Nepo baby, you're going to experience an imbalance of power, and you have to understand how to navigate that.
- [18:59]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah. If you're a Nepo baby, you're the powerful one most of the time. Yeah. It's. You know, I was talking to somebody last week about, like, his, you know, Mario came Back online. After being offline off social media for several years, he came back online into 2023 and started teaching classes, videos on, you know, video cooking classes, and got back on Instagram. And for, like, a couple days, I let it consume me. And I was just like, how dare this motherfucker? You know? And not only that, but all the people that I knew who knew how he was were like, welcome back, chef. You know, like, fuck those women. Fuck the haters. You know, And I was just like, are you. Do you not remember? You know, and like, there was a whole documentary film about this guy where this woman goes on the record with her face and name and tells a pretty convincing story about some, like, pretty fucked up shit. But because he wasn't legally convicted of anything, it's like, well, he's innocent, you know? And so for a couple days, I was just like, you know, reaching out to people and, like, really angry. And then I was like, this is. This is nothing to do with me. You know, like, best thing I can do is block it, stop paying attention. I can't control anyone else's behavior. I'm not looking to spend 50 bucks to learn how to make, you know, cacio e pepe on zoom from Mario. But, like, I can't, you know, it's not my business if other people want to re. Engage with him.
- [20:25]
Eddie Huang
Yeah. If you telling your story and all these other women bravely telling their stories doesn't deter people from being around him. Yeah, those people deserve him.
- [20:34]
Lori Wooliver
Sure. Yeah. Yes.
- [20:37]
Eddie Huang
It's like, there's a lot of people still, I know that, like, love Louis ck. Like, I know tons of comedians that are like, Louis CK Is still the best comedian working. And I'm like, I won't argue with you.
- [20:47]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah, he's very funny.
- [20:48]
Eddie Huang
He's very funny. And that's your opinion. And you can watch him and give him his money, and that's your choice.
- [20:54]
Lori Wooliver
Right.
- [20:54]
Eddie Huang
You're supporting that. I still think it's really important for people to tell their stories and speak up, but I don't think the canceling worked.
- [21:04]
Lori Wooliver
No, No. I mean, it's. It's. Yeah, it's unfortunate because I feel like the. The word cancel was a little bit of a slang and a little bit of an Internet joke that then became, you know, this. This absolute concept that is. What does it even mean? You know, it's sort of. It doesn't mean whatever you think it means. And the same with woke. Honestly, like, when I first started hearing the word woke, I was like, well, that seems great. You know, like, should you not be aware of what's going on around you and know the truth? And then it's because. Become so weaponized, and so it's whatever. I mean, this is a, you know, Naomi Klein doppelganger level analysis.
- [21:40]
Eddie Huang
No, no, no. I actually love this. And I actually think that getting the analysis out of the. The context of Mario could perhaps help because there's a character in this book, Bill, the cook at Babo.
- [21:52]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [21:53]
Eddie Huang
Who. It's so interesting how you deal with him. I'm going to read a passage here, but it. I feel like it ends up. I'll just read it. This is a guy, Bill, that you dated at the restaurant. Bill goes to Rome to kind of work on his culinary chops and educate himself. The other cooks are very jealous because they don't get to go to Rome. But Bill's there and he's having a rough time. And you ask him, how are you? I'm okay. Look lonely, honestly. I work all the time. It's so expensive here. Today's my only day off and I'm just lying in bed reading. I'm running out of money. I'll probably have to come back to New York a few months early. His voice, always a kind of petulant drawl, sounded especially beaten down. How's the work? I said, it's fine. I killed a dog, he said. I sat down on the closed toilet lid. It was cold in the bathroom, though the light was warm. What? What do you mean you killed a dog? I poisoned it, he said. I'm staying with this family that owns the restaurant outside the city. The neighbors have a dog that barks all fucking night. I work like 14 hours a day. And then I can't sleep because of the barking. So I stole a steak, soaked it in rat poison and tossed it over the fence. Now it's dead. There was a boyish pride in his voice. Wow. I felt sick. You're the only person I've told. I figured you'd get it. Sure. I mean, you did what you had to do. A person has to sleep. He didn't say anything, so I added, I'm glad you told me. And it goes on later. You see Bill again, I think a couple chapters later here. Do you mind if I read that passage? I really like that one. Do you happen to know the page it might be. Is it after Olex?
- [23:47]
Lori Wooliver
No, it's before that got it. It was when I was still. Still employed.
- [23:53]
Eddie Huang
Yes. I. I really, really enjoyed this book.
- [23:56]
Lori Wooliver
I think it was the. It might have been the chopper chapter or no.
- [23:58]
Eddie Huang
Okay, choppers. Right here. I don't mind taking a moment to look for the. This. No, I think it's right before. Okay, here it is. So you're at a party with Bill. It got dark and I got hungry. This is months later. There were a few bags of chips on a picnic table and an unopened plastic box of ice sugar cookies from Key Food. A whole watermelon lay on its. No, wait. This is Alejandro.
- [24:32]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [24:32]
Eddie Huang
Oh, my gosh.
- [24:33]
Lori Wooliver
Just previous to that, I had gone out with.
- [24:36]
Eddie Huang
Oh, here it is. Yes, this. This book has a lot of stories. It's what? This. This copy is well worked. Over here I walk to the corner of Crosby and Spring and wave at the driver of an idling cab. When I turned around, Bill was there. He got into the car with me. It was a short ride to my place. I paid for it. He didn't talk. I keyed us into my building, and he started to follow me up the stairs to my fifth floor apartment. Two flights up, he stopped walking. I'm only going to your place if you let me beat the shit out of you. What? Beat the living shit out of you? He said, raising his voice. Do you want it? That's what's gonna happen if you make me go up to your place. I stood still. He didn't seem to be kidding. I felt very dumb. Why did everything have to be like this? Go home. I said. Good night. I climbed the rest of the stairs to my fifth floor apartment. He didn't follow me. I wanted to go right to sleep for the next seven to 10 years. But I felt sick. When I closed my eyes, I made myself vomit into the toilet. Then watch Weird Al Yankovich behind the music.
- [25:47]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah. Yeah, he was. You know, my shrink said to me, I told her about the dog, and she was like, yeah, you got to stay away from this guy. Like, people who are, you know, cruel to animals are. And she's like, jeffrey Dahmer started with, you know, cats and dogs. And I was like, I hear you. I'm gonna keep doing it. And he didn't, you know, I mean, I was lucky. Like, he said what he wanted to do and gave me the choice. And I was like, yeah, I'm not into that. But I could. It could have gone another way, you know, or he could have been full of shit, you know, I don't know. But I wasn't actually willing to take the chance and find out.
- [26:20]
Eddie Huang
Yeah, in that phase of your life, why do you think you allowed people like Bill in your life and gave them your energy and time.
- [26:28]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah, I didn't have a lot of self esteem, I guess. I mean, that seems like the obvious answer now, but at the time it was like, this is about the best I can do. I didn't really feel. And I know this because I would talk to my shrink about it all the time. I didn't really feel like there was a world in which I could have a nice relationship. Now why is that the case? I don't know. I just. That's how I felt about myself, you know, it was. It was a me thing, I would think. It also was part of the culture, you know, like, I didn't look the way that I thought you had to look in order to be in a healthy, happy relationship. You know, These were the people I knew. And I was. And I was like, I want. I also was very curious about like, how dark and weird can it get get. You know, and how much of that am I willing. Am I interested in how much am I willing to tolerate? So it was like, you know, I know cooks. These guys are attractive. They're the people I know. It's like easy, you know, in some ways it's like easy fishing because we're all in this, you know, place together. But yeah, it never occurred to me that I could just go out and meet somebody nice.
- [27:32]
Eddie Huang
Yeah. And then you ultimately do meet someone who you think is nice. Alex.
- [27:37]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [27:38]
Eddie Huang
You end up marrying him. But would you say that throughout the relationship you felt like you, like, didn't deserve it in a way or. I don't know.
- [27:46]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah, well, I was like. I think there was still. There were things left undone for me. I mean, I don't know, it's. It's a. It's a big question of like, why I wasn't happy being married. Very nice guy, very stable and normal. I think I was a little bored. And also, I think there was just a fundamental incompatibility that had to do with the way I saw the world and the way he sees or saw the world. And then I started lying and I started like, you know, being not a great girlfriend slash wife. And then it's like the more secrets I was keeping, the further away from him I got because it was like, let me not, you know, I don't want to accidentally say something that's going to incriminate me. So I kind of pulled away. And then, you know, all the, like, the shit that comes along with having a kid, which is a, you know, it's a great thing But I mean, you, you know, you've got a young one. It's also, it can be a real strain on your relationship. You know, you really start to see the, the, the seams of people's what holds you together, you know? So, yeah, it was, it was.
- [28:54]
Eddie Huang
Perfect.
- [28:55]
Lori Wooliver
Probably something that I shouldn't have done. You know, I probably should have not gone through with a marriage, but it was like, well, I'm, you know, I'm that age and I'm doing what I think I'm supposed to do and this guy is really nice and his family's nice and, you know, we get along. My parents like him. So I'm gonna take a chance.
- [29:13]
Eddie Huang
Yeah. Yeah. And it is your journey that. It's just your journey, it's your story. And you know, I, I don't judge it at all. I really enjoy reading about it. And it's, it's interesting because besides Alex, every other man you choose in your life in, in this book, whether, even if the men are terrible like Bill.
- [29:34]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [29:35]
Eddie Huang
You can understand the attraction because there's a level of intensity.
- [29:40]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [29:40]
Eddie Huang
There's an insane intensity to the men you choose. There's strangers that you have flings with that from the moment you start to write about them, like, she's going through with it. I can just tell because you have that, like, court in the corniest way. They always teach us this in school, that Henry David throw, like, you want to suck the marrow out of life thing. And I think so many of these characters in the book, when they appear, I'm just like, oh, Lori's going for this. Yeah, she's going all the way. Because this is insane. Insane.
- [30:14]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [30:14]
Eddie Huang
And I relate because I was the kid. My mom will always say this about me. She's like, if I told you not to touch the stove cuz it was hot, you would just grab the stove. I once put my thumb in a blender when I was 6 just to like feel some. And I don't know your backstory, but like, my house was just full of violence.
- [30:33]
Lori Wooliver
Wow. Yeah.
- [30:34]
Eddie Huang
Full of violence. So regular. Just I was like. I don't know, like the way people loved each other in my house was like to beat each other and make up. And so like, I was attracted to intensity and if it wasn't intense, I didn't want it.
- [30:50]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah. And see, that wasn't at all. I mean, I grew up in a very. Not a household that wasn't like that. But we also were not affectionate. We were not. You know, nobody ever said, I love You. I mean, I think it was implied. And I felt loved. I felt taken care of. But there was this kind of emotionally rigid sort of Catholic, you know, whatever, you know, informed by generations of World War II, PSD or whatever. There was just a kind of a. Like, we don't talk about stuff like that. You know, you call the town Podunk, I think. Yeah.
- [31:21]
Eddie Huang
And you call people rubes.
- [31:23]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah, yeah. And myself, I mean, I felt like I was trying to shake that off. But. But what you said about just wanting to feel something, I mean, that was, that was my, my response to it too. And also growing up, you know, I was like a good girl and I was, you know, went to church and got good grades and was very much like, did everything that was expected of me. So I think once I was on my own to make my own decisions, it was like, well, now I'm gonna do all the. That I was too scared to do when I was younger.
- [31:51]
Eddie Huang
Yeah. And you did it.
- [31:52]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah, you.
- [31:53]
Eddie Huang
You lived it for 20 years out here. You were, you were in the streets. And it was. I just did not expect it reading it. It was like a very pleasant surprise. But like I said, it's the way you write about intimacy and attraction, that was the hook for me. Do you think you've. Through therapy and just time gotten to the core of what you are attracted to?
- [32:17]
Lori Wooliver
I think so. You know, I think that the thing is that through all of these experiences, I was like, well, this is all that's available to me, so I'm just going to do it because the, the, the, you know, the other solution is to sit alone in the dark and eat wet cigarettes. And that seems really boring. Right. So I'm going to, like, go out and even though I'm going to get hurt, I want to do it. I've done it enough, you know, like, I've. I've got it out of my system also. Getting sober, I think. Well, what I was going to say is the thread through all of it was like, I really just wanted to be, like, loved and validated and, you know, I think I was looking for other people to do that for me, obviously, in a very sort of fucked up way. But now that I'm, you know, I'm old and I'm sober and I've been through all this therapy and I've. I've experienced enough sort of shitty relationships that like, you know, now I have like a very nice, you know, stable, sane boyfriend who, you know, like, we don't. We just hang out, you know, and it's great. And I feel like I can. I know now how to validate within myself. I know that I've got value. I don't need to be validated by a relationship or a crazy experience or whatever it is.
- [33:24]
Eddie Huang
Yeah, it was. It felt like some. It felt like seeking affirmation of, like, existence in a way. And there's one passage, when you actually write about Roger that gave me the most insight early on in the book you write. I couldn't possibly presume to immediately sit on his bed, such as it was. So I instead sat down on the floor. Roger took off his shirt, stretched out on the mattress, and said, come here. Which I did. We rolled around together for an exquisite hour or so, and then he fished a $20 bill out of his wallet, pressed it into my hand, and told me to take a taxi home. I put the cash in my wallet and decided to walk. It was summer, and my mind and heart were chaotic, explosive. The late night light was orange, gray, the summer air humid and dank. I knew that fooling around with Roger was like standing on the tracks while a speeding train came screaming at me if he even wanted to see me again. And boy, did I hope he wanted to see me again. He was definitely going to use and discard me. I knew there was no future here. It would probably feel really fucking good for a while, and then it would feel really fucking awful. Still, I believed I was ready for it. I had been listening to a lot of Lucinda Williams and Emmylou Harris, and I wanted to try living my life like a country song. Drunk, immunologic, impulsive, corny, lonely, and rooting around in bad places for something that could pass for love. That felt like the through line to, like, Alana Del Rey album. Yeah. You know, and I think you really captured the emotions and feelings of just someone looking for that connection.
- [35:04]
Lori Wooliver
Mm. I will say, too, that I think there is a valid theory about being a drunk, and that's that once you really start to drink alcoholically or use drugs addictively, that your emotional development kind of stops. Your maturity kind of hits a wall. And so I started binge drinking and, you know, smoked a little pot in high school, but smoked more pot in college. I think my emotional development kind of stopped in that teenage time when you are, you know, you listen to a song and you want to act it out and you're looking out. You know, it's the movie of your life. You know, it's this very young romantic ideal. I mean, in my case, it got sort of curdled and twisted. But, you know, I think about. I used to be told that I was very mature, but I think I was quite immature for a very long time because my, I didn't grow emotionally beyond the age of, you know, 18 or 19 until I got sober. So all of this is. I mean, I had some great times and I had great stories. I have this book, but I was like a teenager in Arrested Development. But as a 20, 30, 40 year old.
- [36:17]
Eddie Huang
Yeah, I feel the same way. I. The biggest moments of growth in my life were the periods where I stopped drinking and I stopped smoking weed. Right. Like I was on felony probation from the age of like 20 to 23. That was the biggest spike in growth. You know, I ended up winning multiple awards at my school, going to law school. In law school I would drink, you know, but I didn't smoke weed. And then I opened Bauhaus. That came at the end of a period where I wasn't smoking weed. And then once I opened Bauhaus, I was just back doing everything, you know, doing Molly, doing pills, smoking weed, drinking. And it wasn't until the pandemic, and I still was drinking when I was in Taiwan for the pandemic, but starting to slow down and I just started to have days where I just sat alone. I lived in an apartment on the mountain and I just sat alone. And being alone helped me realize how actually lonely I was with other people, partying, doing the same over and over, drinking and smoking every day. People had convinced me to micro dose and I was doing that. And you know, I came back from Taiwan after the pandemic and was just like, I need to change. Yeah, I didn't go to aa, I didn't go to meetings because I'd been in programs when I was like 19. I knew when it was. I just kind of did stuff myself. And I met my wife and my wife had a health scare. Maybe seven weeks after we were like officially dating. And from that moment we really stopped doing drugs. I had a few flare ups, you know, and from that moment, 20, 21 till now, and I have my son, I really drink so much less. Yeah, I threw my bong away finally. And I actually feel myself growing and changing. You're right. Like the periods where you're really abusing drugs and alcohol, it's very, very difficult to grow in any way. You're stuck.
- [38:25]
Lori Wooliver
Which is always really hard to hear. Like, I hated when I would hear people talk about you can get addicted to weed or, you know, whatever it was, you know, that, that it does really Stop you. When I was in active addiction, I was like, what? Well, not me, you know, Like, I didn't. The last thing I wanted to hear was that I was doing something bad to myself because I felt like it was the only coping mechanism I had was to be high all the time, you know?
- [38:48]
Eddie Huang
Yeah. You have a passage later on, too, where you were, like, cooking a catered dinner. I'll find it. I. I don't need to find it. We. We've read so many passages, but there's like, there's a catered event, and you're like, I'm gonna smoke weed to get more creative and focused. And because I've just recently stopped smoking, I was able to read him like, lori, no. Like, it's not going to help you. It's like it's tricking you. It makes you a silly version of yourself, you know?
- [39:12]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah. And it's. I. I mean, hundreds of times I would have that same realization, like, I'm going to get high. It's going to be great. And then an hour into it, I'd be like, oh, God, I'm so tired. I'm so scattered. Like, oh, whoops, I forgot to peel the potatoes, and now they're already in the soup or whatever it was, you know? But it. It took me such a long time to really put it together that it's like, no, this is a problem, you know, And I. And there is another way. I just wasn't sure there was another way. You know, I thought that I was using weed to manage my anxiety, but I was actually just ramping it up.
- [39:46]
Eddie Huang
Yeah. And it's. It's also, you know, I. I always thought when I was a kid, like, when I was raging, I was like, when I have a kid, I'm gonna have him go to public school. I want him to go through the school of hard knocks like I did and run around with everybody outside. And now I'm just like, bro, I'm gonna give you some really good books to read. I just want you to read some really good books, meet some really nice people, because, like, there's nothing out there in that. That way of life. There's just nothing. Like, I think when you're in it, you try to validate it and you try to, like, talk about it in an artful way. And look, all my friends are artists, and they're also up. And. And it's just like, everyone needs to get right.
- [40:26]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [40:26]
Eddie Huang
You know, like, it's the drugs and alcohol. It's never made anybody more creative.
- [40:33]
Lori Wooliver
No, no. Well, I'll say two things. New York City public schools, you know, it's not all like that. My son goes to public school.
- [40:41]
Eddie Huang
Like, you know, the testing schools are great, too. And. Yeah, I just meant that, like, I went to a public school in Orlando with 4,000 kids, and it was just a royal record rumble.
- [40:49]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [40:50]
Eddie Huang
You know, bust in two projects. Everybody was there. It was complete insanity. We had. We had a race riot once where I saw a kid jump from the second level balcony and go macho man and elbow dropped the principal of the head. And I was like, yo, this is the illest ever. And I thought it was cool.
- [41:09]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [41:10]
Eddie Huang
And I participated in another insane, like, fight there.
- [41:13]
Lori Wooliver
Like.
- [41:14]
Eddie Huang
And. And I mean, I had. I had two felony assault charges before I turned 20.
- [41:20]
Lori Wooliver
Jesus.
- [41:21]
Eddie Huang
And I just don't. I don't want to be that guy. I don't want. I don't want my kid to be that guy.
- [41:26]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah. Yeah, there's. I. That's totally valid. Yeah. But the other thing, I had something else to say, but I lost. No, no, no, it's fine. Yeah. Oh, I know. I was gonna say there are people who really still want to talk you out of the idea that you have to be fucked up to be creative. And I'm thinking specifically of Joe Rogan, who, you know, very graciously had me on his podcast a couple years ago, and I will go back if he asks me, but he was. You know, we talked about sobriety, and he was like, well, you know, I mean, I'm sure he was probably high while we were talking, you know, but he was like, you gotta. You know, I just think, you know, it loosens up your brain. And I think you are. You do get more creative when you get high. And I'm. You know, I was like, I'm here to say. I don't think that's true. You know, I don't. I wouldn't have been able to write this book. Book. If I were still getting high all the time, you know?
- [42:13]
Eddie Huang
Yeah. Joe. Joe is a. Interesting conundrum, because I was. People ask me about it a lot. I've been on Rogan five times. I keep in touch with Joe. He's one of the nicest people I've ever met.
- [42:24]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [42:24]
Eddie Huang
Like, in the way when you write about Tony, Joe's up there for me as one of top five nicest guys I've met in the business.
- [42:32]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [42:33]
Eddie Huang
He'll reach out when you're not doing great. When you need help, he'll help. Like, yeah.
- [42:37]
Lori Wooliver
He cried during our During. I mean, we mostly talked about Tony and he really, you know, had a genuine love for the guy.
- [42:43]
Eddie Huang
Yeah. Joe's love is very real. Joe just is. He is an extremely curious mind.
- [42:50]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [42:51]
Eddie Huang
And a contrarian.
- [42:52]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [42:53]
Eddie Huang
And when he thinks he has a way to win an argument from the most unexpected angle, he's just going to try to win it. And I think he's. He contorts his mind sometimes in that way. And like, I remember we had the biggest argument over, like, universal basic income, but he actually came around and hit me up later and was like, yeah, you had a good point about that thing. You know, you had a good point. But everyone's really mad at Joe now. And like, yeah, there's. They have their reason. And yeah, I just try to tell him, look, everyone makes mistakes, but Joe has always been the nicest guy to me.
- [43:27]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [43:27]
Eddie Huang
And there's no, like, Batali of it. There's no Shane Smith. Like, he's genuinely.
- [43:32]
Lori Wooliver
Right.
- [43:33]
Eddie Huang
A kind person who I think has contorted his mind. Yeah.
- [43:37]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah. Maybe that's a jiu jitsu thing. You know, like, try and win from any angle and, you know, just winning is the. Is the goal.
- [43:44]
Eddie Huang
He's put his beautiful mind into an arm bar to, like, support the things he's supporting now. And, like, it's all love. I doubt Joe's going to see this, but I. I love Joe, but I'm like, bro, I don't know what you're talking about.
- [43:55]
Lori Wooliver
Sometimes that's. Well, that's, you know, that's. That's free speech in America. Right. While we still have it.
- [44:00]
Eddie Huang
I think we've subconsciously been avoiding it. But, Tony, it's. It's just like, I think it's hard for, for both of us. Like, I knew we were going to talk about, but I think we've just been avoiding. Like, we have. Not really, but I don't know, like, where are you at with it now these days?
- [44:18]
Lori Wooliver
Well, so it's been. It's going on seven years since he died, and I have had the privilege to do a lot of work that's helped me to process it in a. In a public way and in a way that's, you know, that's just given me the opportunity and the mandate to kind of really dig into what happened. And I mean, just in terms of the, you know, the, the reality of his death and the way it happened, it's like the first. I think this is probably true. True of a lot of people who experience a suicide. It's like, you Blame yourself. Everyone around you is thinking, what could I have done if only I had done this or that? And that's just something you kind of have to go through. But I. But I. I was able to get to a place of like, well, a. None of that happened. And. And the result is the result, and we can't change it. And just understanding who he was. We were talking before we started recording about how he was very intimate with people, and. And you really felt like you had a. A close relationship and an understanding. But he also had hard boundaries, and he kept people siloed and he didn't want to be fussed over. And so any number of people, myself included, were like, hey, man, are you doing all right? And he was like, I'm fine. You know, And. And again, it comes down to power. It's like he had the power in these. And it wasn't. He didn't. He didn't abuse it. He didn't use it like a cudgel, but he did have the power. And so it was. It wasn't like your kid, where you kind of force your way in because you want to save their life, because you don't. First of all, we didn't know his life was in danger. But also, it was like, if he says he's okay and he doesn't want you to fuss over him, you're not going to fuss over him, you know? And that's. Unfortunately, that's. That's the way it went down, you know?
- [45:58]
Eddie Huang
Yeah. Tony had a lot of power, and in this funny way, he just, like, didn't seem to want it. Yeah, it was like a dude who had the biggest and was like, I don't know, man. I don't know what I'm gonna do with this thing. Throw it down the hallway, you know? And, like, I remember one time he took me to dinner and he, like, rented out the top floor of the Spotted Pig so he could just talk and no one would be around. And. And then it was so awkward in there. He's like, it's kind of weird, huh? I'm like, yeah, dude, we should have just sat in the dining room. But it was kind of like that with him. And, you know, he would invite me to places that were very like, oh, my God, once in a lifetime opportunity. Like, called me once and was like, meet me in the pool of the Raleigh in Miami, and we'll have a conversation in the shallow end of the pool. I'm like, this is fucking insane. And it was great. But he. Well, the thing I Loved about him was he couldn't help but be himself. He would pick these funny settings that he thought was appropriate for him. And I like meeting together. And then I was just like, yo, man, this is weird, Tony. And we were just like our regular selves that we'd be in a bodega.
- [47:05]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he was. He felt really lucky and really grateful to have the power, the money, the creative, you know, total creative control, all of it. But also was, like, felt a little embarrassed by it. I mean, having been a journeyman cook and chef for 28 years, you know, he was very acutely aware of, you know, everyone else that didn't get to rise up with him, you know, and he was, I think, having been somebody who was kind of carping behind the scenes at the Be Big Guys, he was like, I know what people are saying. I know what those old cooks are saying about me behind my back, you know, And I think there was always a sense of trying to even the playing field and bring people along with him, share the wealth, you know? I mean, I never saw anyone that was. That gave less of a. About how much things cost, which, as an assistant was a great thing, you know, because, I don't know, the wrong assistant job. And you spend your entire day just chasing down a discount and trying to, like, make sure that, you know, somebody saving 10% or whatever. And he was just like, I don't have a minute in my life to care about what things cost.
- [48:05]
Eddie Huang
Yeah. From first time I met him, I just was able to understand. From the first time, I was just like, this is. This is an extremely generous man who carries an immense amount of guilt for being who he is.
- [48:19]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [48:20]
Eddie Huang
He was just. You could just feel it. And he was trying to, like, get. Give himself away at all times. And I was a young. I was a kid, you know, like, Tony. Tony sent Helen Cho to the restaurant. And then randomly one day, Helen Cho tells me to meet Tony at Union Square and moderate a talk for Medium Raw with him. It's how I meet Tony the first time. And he just, from that moment, just trying to give me things, trying to help me. Like, he would reach out to reporters just to talk about me and help defend me in the press. And I was like, this is unbelievable. But my instinct was always like, yo, big dog. Like, you gotta save some for yourself.
- [48:59]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [49:00]
Eddie Huang
Like, I wouldn't ask Tony for anything because he was giving too much.
- [49:04]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [49:05]
Eddie Huang
And I just always worried about him because he. He just seemed to want and need affirmation from, like, the people.
- [49:15]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [49:15]
Eddie Huang
And I was like, that is an amorphous idea.
- [49:18]
Lori Wooliver
Right.
- [49:18]
Eddie Huang
You're never going to win over this amorphous group of, like, the people.
- [49:22]
Lori Wooliver
Right.
- [49:22]
Eddie Huang
He was really good at standing up to the bad guys, like, the best, and he could stand his ground in those situations. But I just. I just wish he would have known that, like, we all loved him no matter what. Like, he didn't need to do anything.
- [49:39]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think. I hope he knew that, but I think, you know, it's a delicate thing to sort of compare yourself to a man like him. But I do feel, like, that need for romantic love, for validation through a beautiful love affair, I felt like I understood that. I wanted to emulate that. I thought it was incredible that he was so obsessively in love with his girlfriend at the end. And I was like, yeah, that's what life is. That's what it. That's what it is to feel alive, to be throwing yourself into this thing, even if you know it's. It's going to end badly. And he knew it was going to end badly. I don't think he knew how badly. But, yeah, I think he had this. This unfillable hole, you know, not to get. Sounds a little gross, but it's true, you know, and that's classic addict shit, you know, And I'm not here to diagnose him with anything, but he was an addict, you know, whether it was jiu jitsu or, you know, heroin or work or whatever. Like, he treated the world addictively.
- [50:44]
Eddie Huang
Yeah. No. Watching you move through the world in this book reminded me a lot of my interactions with Tony. I was honestly going to say. And I wrote it down as a note because you were so giving and you weren't judgmental and you let so many things happen to you and. And you tried to see the best version of everyone. Even, like, Bill the dog killer, you tried to see the best version of Tony. Always did that, unless it was, like, someone with privilege. Like, he could see it with people with privilege, but the people who were hurt and in pain, he refused to judge. And I think he perhaps at times would let people like that drag him down.
- [51:23]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah. Yeah. He was definitely, you know, the wounded kitten was the. Was the most interesting thing to him for sure.
- [51:32]
Eddie Huang
Like, I do think it brings the book all full circle is like, no matter who you are, no matter how much power you have, you need to take care of yourself first.
- [51:44]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [51:44]
Eddie Huang
Before you can take care of anyone else.
- [51:46]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [51:46]
Eddie Huang
Because I think throughout this book, you try to take care of so many people. Your mom, Batali, Tony, you know, everyone you worked for and worked with, you had so much empathy for, but you never took care of yourself.
- [52:00]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah, it's true, it's true. I mean, I was in therapy for 20 years, which is a form of self care, I think. I mean, I, you know, I don't know, but. But I would lie to her, you know, I would show up stoned for the last, probably 10 years of that 20 year period. I was, I don't think I was ever not stoned at therapy and I wouldn't tell her, you know, which is like just, it's like throw your money in the garbage can, you know, I mean, I still got something out of it, but I was self sabotaging for sure.
- [52:28]
Eddie Huang
Yeah. Is there anything else you want to talk about? About the book? What's the next. What's the next book?
- [52:34]
Lori Wooliver
I don't know. I mean, I want to keep writing like that. I mean, I don't. I don't think I have another memoir in me because I pretty much used it, you know, I mean, my life is not, not bookworthy now. It's quite quiet, which I like, you know, I don't know. I've been. My publisher is like. Somebody at my publisher was like, you have to, you know, you're in. This is your zone. These are your people you've got to write about, about women and chefs or women chefs. And I'm just like, I can't think of anything that I want to write about less, you know, I'm not a chef. I never was a chef. I think the women chefs thing has been done to death and it's not. I don't want to read that book, so I don't want to write that book. I'm working on a cookbook with Ryan Bartlow from Ernesto's. I'm working on a memoir with a guy named Greg hall, whose dad started Goose Island Beer and they sold it to anheuser Busch about 10 years ago, which was a big deal. And I'm really interested in the Catholic Worker movement, which is like very out of nowhere. But it's like I was raised Catholic. I never knew anything about the Catholic Worker movement, and I still don't. I'm just learning. But it's like these like, super anarchist, radical socialist Catholics, you know, who are doing amazing things and are out there getting arrested and are, you know, feeding poor people. And it's just like, this has nothing to do with the Catholicism I was raised with. So I'm learning about that stuff.
- [53:53]
Eddie Huang
I want to read that. I also would just read anything of yours where you're a fish out of water, observing. Because the way you paint. Paint a picture is what I like the most. Like, it's not just your story. It's not that. Oh, you work for Batala and you work for Tony. The writing in here is lights out.
- [54:11]
Lori Wooliver
Well, thank you.
- [54:12]
Eddie Huang
It's really, really incredible. And I'm excited because I. I know every agent, when you have a book coming out, they're like, write the second book before the first one comes out and it should follow thematically. And I'm just like, that is the fastest way to kill a writer's career.
- [54:28]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [54:29]
Eddie Huang
Because it needs to come from a real place.
- [54:33]
Lori Wooliver
Yeah.
- [54:34]
Eddie Huang
It has to be guttural. And so I'm excited. If you're writing about Catholic workers, like, I'm. I'm here for that.
- [54:40]
Lori Wooliver
Great.
- [54:41]
Eddie Huang
I want to see that.
- [54:42]
Lori Wooliver
Great. Thank you. I'll do it.
- [54:44]
Eddie Huang
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
- [54:46]
Lori Wooliver
Of course. Thank you for having me. This is great.
- [54:48]
Eddie Huang
Definitely. Yeah. Get. Get the book. This. This is one of the best books I've read in a really long time, honestly. Thank you.
- [54:54]
Lori Wooliver
All right, thanks.
- [54:57]
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