The Pizza Man New York City Needs & Deserves with Chris Hansell of Chrissy's Pizza

Summary

Canal Street Dreams

Episode: The Pizza Man New York City Needs & Deserves
Hosts: Eddie Huang & Natashia Perrotti
Guest: Chris Hansell (Chrissy's Pizza)
Date: February 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

A candid, irreverently funny, and deeply insightful conversation with Chris Hansell, the mastermind behind Chrissy’s Pizza—a slice quickly mythologized as New York’s new essential. Eddie and Natashia trace Chrissy’s unlikely journey from the New York punk/hardcore scene to pizza stardom, dig into the subculture roots that fueled his DIY approach, and explore how love, loss, and tireless obsession shaped the pies. Expect unfiltered talk on hustle, legacy, old-school NYC food culture, and what it really means to become “the pizza man” the city needs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Real Life, Kitchen Stress, and Family Dynamics

00:00–03:45

• The episode opens with hilarious banter about “cranking hog in the morning” (masturbation as a wake-up routine), balancing chef-life hours, and the not-so-glamorous juggling act of parenting.
• Natashia jokingly interrogates gendered routines:

  “Imagine if I was like, ‘babe, sorry, you just have to get up with your kid because I have to masturbate all morning.’” (02:43, Natashia Perrotti)

• Eddie and Natashia admit that being creative parents means they’re never quite “regular people,” poking fun at everyday domestic friction and shared exhaustion.

How Subculture Launched a Pizza Career

03:45–07:38

• Chris’s hardcore/punk background gave him an organic network and ethos—unlike the manufactured “PR push” newer spots rely on.
• Early on, he sold pizzas out of his apartment. Word spread through friends from music, not media.
• Eddie observes:

  “That’s like the old way… the homies tell the homies. And it’s a thing.” (05:00, Eddie Huang)

• Chris notes that coming up in punk/hardcore built broad connections—touring made knowing people everywhere possible, which pays off when starting a business.

  “You start doing something different… you already know so many people… it gives you that extra leg up.” (06:13, Chris Hansell)

The Value System: More Than Cheffery

06:13–07:39

• Ties at New York restaurant Superiority Burger started with subculture, not chef connections:

  “We knew who each other were… we’d nod at each other in rooms.” (06:46, Chris Hansell)

• Behind every kitchen, for these guys, it’s about community, not just cuisine.

The Father Connection & Pursuit of Pizza Perfection

07:39–14:41

• Chris’s deep love of pizza was shaped by his father, whose specific taste and pizza obsession taught him to seek “the right slice” everywhere.

  “[My dad] was obsessed with pizza… but he was so specific… taught me to order well done on Fridays ‘cuz it’s super busy and they’ll undercook it.” (08:08, Chris Hansell)

• After his dad’s death in 2011, pizza exploration became a way to honor, remember, and reconnect—especially during lonely tours.
• Cooking began as a teenage job (Carvel, kosher deli), but the punk/art-moving grind took over until he returned to pizza in 2019, teaching himself from scratch at home.
• Chris recounts the struggle of early dough attempts and the rabbit hole of online forums like pizzamakin.com, where old-school operators shared trade secrets.

  “Shout out pizzamakin.com… there’s all sorts of heads on there…” (13:13, Chris Hansell)

• He highlights influential figures like Andrew Bellucci (Lombardi’s)—whose open, communal approach to recipes and mentorship was formative.

Chefs, Self-Critique, and Obsession

14:41–18:25

• Eddie & Chris agree: you can “steal” recipes, but execution is everything.

  “Like, yo, my brother in Christ, if you can do it, do it right. Cuz this is hard.” (15:05, Eddie Huang)

• The best cooks are insomniac obsessives—reading, experimenting, always chasing the perfect pie.

  “If your brain is making you be like, I can’t sleep, I need to figure this out, that’s a special thing.” (16:03, Chris Hansell)

The Long Road: From Amateur to Pizza Man

18:25–24:41

• After apprenticeships at places like Scarr’s and Bellucci’s Pizzeria and a pivotal stint at L’Industrie, Chris finally started selling out of his Bushwick apartment using nothing but a regular home oven and a steel plate.
• This DIY environment forced technical growth and created genuine scarcity—building the initial hype.
• Eddie compares it to “building a car yourself and then going to race F1.” (24:41)

The Pizza Breakthrough

24:41–26:12

• Chris describes the first time, post-quit, his pizza truly “tasted like it came from a pizzeria”—a crucial leap from hobby to vocation.

  “It sounds cinematic, but I looked at my friend and said, that’s it.” (25:34, Chris Hansell)

Pizza Style, Legacy, and The Batman Analogy

26:12–31:10

• Influenced by 80s/90s Queens and Long Island shops, Chris’s pizza is about recapturing lost care and attention, not flashy innovation.
• Eddie calls the essential NYC pizza man “Batman,” describing the periodic rise of a singular obsessive who “puts the city on his back.”

  “In every generation… one person rises up… [who] puts the city on his back in a way no one else does.” (28:19, Eddie Huang)

• For Chris, pizza is also an ongoing act of grief and remembrance—a mission for his father.

  “It’s for my dad… that’s somehow pushed me while he’s not here to, like, have a career.” (31:10, Chris Hansell)

Why One Shop is Enough

32:00–33:29

• “When are you opening the second one?” is Chris’s most-loathed question. It’s about quality, not expansion.

  “Bro, we… it’s been just… just over a year!” (32:01, Chris Hansell)

• Dream shop: a vibe-heavy, cozy neighborhood space like Arturo’s, not a pizza empire.

Rapid Fire: Old School NYC Pizza Landmark Showdown

38:47–42:11

• Eddie puts Chris through “at-peak” matchups between NYC pizza legends. Highlights:
  • Lombardi’s vs. Grimaldi’s: “Lombardi’s.”
  • Patsy’s vs. Arturo’s: “Arturo’s. I’m loyal.”
  • Arturo’s vs. Di Fara (under Dom DeMarco): “Di Fara is the most insane thing I’ve ever eaten.”

    “Top three bites of food I’ve ever had is… Di Fara’s slice.” (40:07, Eddie Huang)

  • The commitment to “touching every pie” and personal pride are what make the true pizza legends.
• Both reminisce about the lost art and experience of “waiting two hours for a pie, and not caring”—a type of culinary pilgrimage.

Food Scene Now & Other Obsessions

44:47–46:45

• Both agree NYC pizza culture is thriving again, with several new standouts and serious operators “who give a fuck.”
• Chris gives love to Superiority Burger, Bread & Salt in Jersey City, and Eel Bar—“the most underrated restaurant in this city.”
• The subculture solidarity extends beyond pizza—a celebration of mutual respect and shared obsession.

  “His bread is insane. Anything he does with beans is always insane. His sandwiches… I just… I could sit there for hours.” (45:56, Chris Hansell, on Bread & Salt)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

On “self-taught” obsession:

“The only way you are going to be good at this… is if you’re waking up in the middle of the night thinking about this dish. It’s going to be good.” – Eddie Huang (15:24)

On loss as fuel:

“The whole thing is just like… it’s for my dad. So it’s like, I’m not gonna stop… the fact that my best bud that’s not around anymore has somehow pushed me… to have a career is pretty fucking crazy.” – Chris Hansell (31:10)

On the city’s pizza succession:

“In every generation… one person rises up and it’s just like, I want to do it… Not a player for the Knicks, not baseball, but like Dom Di Fara… The pizza man to me is Batman in the city.” – Eddie Huang (28:19)

On opening a second location:

“That’s my least favorite question… It’s been just over a year!” – Chris Hansell (32:01)

On pizza fanatics and food beef:

“You know, the pizza fanatics are psycho… constantly comparing… Just enjoy it.” – Chris Hansell (43:00)
“I like food beef. Like, I was at the Bow Wars. The Bow wars were fun, you know? It’s fun, man.” – Eddie Huang (43:26)

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Essential Timestamps

• 00:00–03:45: Opening banter, family/cheffing routines
• 03:45–07:38: Punk origin story, word-of-mouth rise
• 07:39–14:41: Pizza as family legacy, trial and error
• 14:41–18:25: Recipe obsession, self-doubt
• 18:25–24:41: Apprenticeships, learning in real kitchens, home oven hustling
• 24:41–26:12: The “breakthrough” pizza moment
• 26:12–31:10: Style talk, “pizza man” as city hero, pizza as mourning
• 32:00–33:29: Shop expansion philosophy, the dream shop
• 38:47–42:11: Rapid fire: legendary pizzerias debate
• 44:47–46:45: Other food obsessions, Bread & Salt, Eel Bar shoutouts

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Closing Tone & Takeaway

Raw, hilarious, and intimate, this episode celebrates the highest possibilities of food—and pizza—as art, memory, cultural glue, and catharsis. Chris Hansell rises not through hype or expansion, but through relentless, personal commitment and a deep honor paid to both the city and his late father. This is the story of how the next pizza legend—New York’s new “Batman”—gets made from scratch.

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Transcript

[A]

Yo.

[B]

Welcome back Canal Street Dreams. We have a personal friend, incredible guest today for you. Chrissy from Chrissy's Pizza. Welcome to the show, brother. We have a question derivative of the last episode. We have to ask, as a man, do you. Do you crank hog in the morning to wake up sometimes?

[A]

No, not. Not these days.

[B]

Oh, you used to, though.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

Yeah. Okay, good, good, good. She keeps walking in on me, and I'm just like. But this is how I get going. This is like my Dunkin Donuts. This is how America wakes up.

[C]

I. I don't care about the cranking hog. Actually crank all day. Crank away. Like, you could start cranking it right now. I'd be, like, unfazed by it. I get upset because I wake up with our kid. I cook breakfast, I get him ready. Like, I do literally everything. I'm making bacon, I'm making eggs.

[B]

Like, I'm putting on clothes.

[C]

I'm changing diapers.

[A]

Facing the wall, I'm putting.

[C]

Yeah. And then it's like two hours later, I walk in the room. I'm like, oh, like, he's still sleeping. Whatever. That's annoying. One. And then I walk in and he's jerking off. And I'm like, that's crazy because you're.

[B]

I've been working nights, though. I've been working nights.

[A]

I understand you're on the line. I'm.

[B]

I'm on the line, you know? Like, I gotta get going.

[C]

Definitely, like, definitely, like, home and asleep by 10. Like, working nights. Like, you're not working the graveyard. You're fine still.

[B]

I'm. I'm. I'm right now. 11 to 10.

[A]

Okay, I'm 11 to 10.

[B]

It's a lot of hours on your feet.

[C]

I'm six.

[A]

Friends and family.

[B]

That was like, oh, yeah, two months.

[A]

Ago, three months ago.

[B]

Yeah. I think November 2nd or November 3rd. Yeah, it's fresh. You know, there's a lot of stress with ordering.

[C]

Babe.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

He's so stressed.

[A]

Can I do the order?

[B]

He's like, I don't know if I.

[C]

Should get the burger or not.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Chef's warehouse is calling me. We don't have Uber pork chop. Fuck, I got a crack hog. Yeah, it's fine.

[A]

Yeah. Also, I wonder, like. Cause in the mornings, I'm always stressed. So, like, I don't know how you. And I have add, so it's like, I don't know how you could focus on cranking the hog while you're like, fuck, what do I gotta do for tonight?

[B]

Oh, man, it's just like, a Button. At this point, I'm not even focused on what I'm like. This morning, I woke up and I got a text. Carlos can't work tonight. Got to work the line. I was like, I just laid back, and I just let go.

[A]

See, that would just throw me off. I would have to stop.

[B]

You're a better chef than I am. Are you a dad, too?

[A]

No, I'm not.

[B]

Word, word, word. Damn. You're just a better man. You don't even have man.

[C]

Yeah, not looking.

[B]

Not looking. I told her, I will not jerk off before making her coffee anymore.

[A]

Yeah, coffee comes.

[B]

I'll make you coffee and then get you going. And then I will go crank hog.

[C]

I love that.

[A]

Yeah. Great way to start this. It is.

[B]

It is. It is. Welcome.

[A]

This is how you were finishing the last episode.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

We always are like, yeah, we don't.

[B]

Know how to be regular people.

[A]

I understand.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

I would just, like. I would just like to, in my head, like, imagine what it would be like if roles were reversed. If I was like, babe, like, sorry, you just have to get up with your kid, because I have to. I have to masturbate all morning.

[B]

You have to be, like, hot.

[C]

I don't think you would. You would literally be huffing and puffing and rolling your eyes, and you'd be like, you're.

[B]

You don't. I think it's amazing. I think anytime you're horny, I think it's incredible. I think it is a gift. I think it is a gift.

[C]

I would say the. The horniness, like, just goes. It just.

[B]

Yeah. No, once you Goes away, she walked in today, just shut the door, and.

[C]

I was just like, that's crazy. Like, that's just the most unattractive thing I've ever seen in my life. You know what I mean? And not. Not the act of doing it, just the act of, like, still being in bed. I was. The disrespect.

[B]

I used to love Al Bundy. I might have become Al Bundy.

[A]

Well, I feel like it probably does change a lot when you have a kid. Yeah. And you're married.

[B]

It does.

[C]

100.

[A]

I'm not either of those yet. So.

[B]

Congratulations.

[C]

We're so happy. But. Yeah, we're so happy.

[B]

We really are.

[A]

It's great.

[B]

But no, dude, the thing. The thing that I love, too, is, like, you know, I feel like we had a lot of friends in common. You know, you worked in the hardcore scene before you even were doing pizza.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

And, you know, in the pandemic, I Started to see your pizza pop up.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Because a lot of my homies were already your friends. And I think that is like a cool way to come into the business of food. Right, right.

[A]

Like, well, it's just like growing up also just growing up in New York too. So it's like I was talking to somebody recently and this might be too much of like a side, like quest.

[B]

Like go side quest. You got a lot of time.

[A]

I feel like a lot like a lot of my friends that own bars or like restaurants, whatever, will be like, yo, so and so, who just opened this spot? And he was wondering like who your PR person is. And I was like, we don't fucking pay for pr. We never paid for nothing. But I just think just growing up here and playing music or just being involved in like subculture in general, like, it's kind of like builds itself. And so when you start doing something that people recognize as sick or whatever, like it kind of just happens organically. And that's why this kind of popped off so like. Yeah. Early on in the pandemic or right after, when I started selling pizza out of my house, like, you started following me. I was like, oh fuck, like Eddie Wong's following me. It's fucking wild. So it's like those little CO signs, even if it's just like, yo, these look sick or like, whatever, like that kind of gives you the push to keep going and making it better or whatever because you're like, okay. People are taking notice.

[B]

Yeah. And I like the way you did it because that was kind of like the old way I came up watching it in the Lower east side or Williamsburg, Brooklyn is just, oh, you were DJing and then now you're selling this food thing. Yo, let's go try the homie sandwich, right? Go hang out there. And then the homies tell the homies. And it's a thing. I remember when I opened, I didn't know what eater was. I didn't know what any of those things, things were. Then they started coming and they'd be like, you know, I'm from there. I'm like, from where?

[A]

What is that?

[B]

Yeah, I never seen you at sobs.

[A]

For sure. For sure. And it's like this weird organic thing. It's also like a weird like cheat code or something, right? Cuz it's like, it's like growing up in punk and hardcore and stuff like that, it's. You kind of amass this like friend group that like spans like. Well, in my experience, like touring around the country, going to Europe Going to all these places, you make all these friends in different spots. So, like, no matter where you go, like, you know people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think that's just such a leg up to have to be a part of something like that. Like when you start doing something different versus, like, playing in bands, you start cooking, you start opening whatever, business, whatever. Like, it's like you already know so many people that are involved in so many different things just through this other thing. And it kind of like gives you that extra leg up.

[B]

Yeah. And not even the leg up, but gives you, like an extra, like, seasoning to what you're doing. Like, you come from a subculture and a. A set of values and ethos that, like, I do too. And it's like when you popped up at Superiority Burger, I imagine people like, wait, why is this guy at Superior Burger? You know? But it's like, no, your ties are not as chefs. It's as, like, people in the hardcore scene.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know Brooks until I started making. Like, we. We knew who each other were. We would, like, nod at each other in rooms.

[B]

But you're aware of each other in the community.

[A]

Right. And I used to eat at SB all the time, but it was the same thing. Like when I was selling pizza out of my apartment, like, he just hit me up on IG and was just like, hey, these look cool. Can I, like, come try one? And I was like, yeah, Brooks Headley or whatever, like James Beard award winning fucking pastry chef. You can come try pizza. And we just like, I invited him up, gave him a beer while I was making his pizza, and we just started talking, obviously, just like, like, oh, you know that person. Okay, cool. Like, blah, blah, blah. And then we just kept in touch. And then we just became really good friends. So when I popped up at Superiority Burger, it wasn't like, oh, random guy is popping up in my kitchen. It's like, oh, Chris, my homie is like, going to make pizza here late night or whatever after our service is over.

[B]

Yeah, no, it made sense to me. I think it was the food media translation of it was interesting, you know, because of course they only see people as like, chefs and restaurants, not like dudes.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, but for you, it's. Your love for pizza came from your pops.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So my dad was from Laurelton, Queens. I grew up in Valley Stream, which is like the Queens Long island border. So Long island, like, kind of like by like jfk, if you don't know the area. My pops drove a school bus in Like, Bed Stuyce, New York. Like, from the 70s up until he retired. And on the weekends, he was off. My mother worked, like, third shift at a hospital. So he was responsible for, like, taking us out to eat or whatever. And he was, like, obsessed with pizza. But, like, when I was super young, I kind of took notice. I was like, oh, he's like, really specific. Like, he's like, okay, we're gonna go to this place tonight. But, like, this is where we order, like, the Sicilian slice. Cause, like, the regular pie is okay, but, like, the Sicilian is what we get here. Or, like, I've said this before on a podcast, that's gonna sound like, regurgitated, but, like, it's just the truth. It's just like. And then he'll be like, okay, this place puts sesame seeds on the crust and that's cool to have sometimes, or whatever. And it's like, this place is amazing. But they're super busy on Friday night. So you have to, like, drill it into them to order it well done. Otherwise they're gonna undercook it. Cause they're trying to get you out the door faster. So, like, absorbing all that super young was, like, made me obviously, like, I was obsessed with pizza. What kid isn't? But it made me start being that way about spots. And, like, when I would go try spots with my friends, I'd be like, order the pie. Well done, guys. You gotta order. Well, we got. We want it crispy or whatever. Like, you know. And like, so he passed away in, like, 2011. And then. And he was like, you know, my best fucking friend. Like, my favorite guy in the planet. Super, like. Well, like, just, like, super chill, quiet, like, never yelled. So you just respected him because he.

[B]

Probably didn't jerk off in the morning.

[A]

Yeah, he probably didn't have that released. But when he passed away, like, when I would be on tour or just in the city, I would, like, find myself going out to spots. Or, like, getting friends to come with me to spots I never checked out to kind of keep a tradition that I had with him going.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so all my friends would make fun of me all the time. Like, bro. Like, dude, wait, we're in Mexico City. Why are you trying to find a pizzeria right now? I was like, I gotta try it. I gotta see what it's like here, et cetera, et cetera. So then around, like, 2019, I was like, well, maybe I started teaching myself how to do this. I could. I cooked professionally when I was a kid. Like, first job, 14 years old, Carvel I was like one of the only guys they let right on the cakes. So I was like, pastry chef. That Carvel came crazy, though, the cookie puts right. And then I worked in a deli. Like, a deli with a sit down restaurant in the back. It was like kosher deli. So like pastrami, corned beef, kind of like cats type shit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I worked there for, like, five years. I started, like, in my sophomore year of high school, and then I ended up not going to college. I was like, signing up for community college. And then I went to go register for classes, and I was like, I just kind of want to keep cooking at the restaurant. I'm making decent money. They would pay me at the end of the day in cash. It was like super cutty. I remember, like, reading Kitchen Confidential like, years later and being like, oh, that's what fucking Woodrow Kosher Deli was like the most, like, sketchy psychos that I worked with. Like, doing coke off the deli counter, fucking my manager, just drinking a bottle of Jack throughout his entire shift.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then getting in his car and driving. So I really. So I got, like, some chops back then. So. Because I started as a busboy, then I was dish. And then I was like on the grill. And then I was like on the deli slicer. Then I was. So I did everything there. And I really liked the. Obviously, the camaraderie and the. And the vibe of just. Even though it was psycho. And I kind of hated everybody I worked with. I liked how chaotic it was. And then when I quit that job is when I started playing in bands and kind of like torn more. And then I kind of moved over into, like, art handling and moving jobs. Just like physical labor when I wasn't on tour. Sorry, I can't remember what.

[B]

I love how so many dudes from the hardcore scene got into art moving. Like, so many dudes are art movers.

[A]

I was never good enough to, like, hang, shit, install, but, like, the crating or whatever or schlepping off trucks, like. Yeah, that's what I would do. Because at the time, like, you had a homie that was involved with it. You could get some work. And it was like you were the.

[B]

Third guy in the crew.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Low level. But at that time, I mean, I'm 38 now, so when I was doing that, I was like 21, 22. But that was like you were getting like 25 an hour. Yeah. And that back then, that was like, really good money at the time. So you would Want you would try to get that work as often as you could. So then. Yeah. So anyway, fast forward. Like, played in bands for years, toured around. Then in 2019, I was like, let me teach myself how to make dough at least, or whatever. Like. Like, I'm just gonna try. And of course, like, I was really bad at it. Like, you know, I just got some recipe. Yeah. Off the Internet.

[B]

Do you remember which one was the first one?

[A]

I can't remember. Some New York Times thing probably.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I didn't understand mixing. I didn't understand fermentation. And so I was just like, okay, I got flour. I got, like regular ass all purpose flour from the store or whatever, little packet of yeast or whatever. And then I would, like, mix and put it in the fridge for a day and then try to make pizza. And it would look like shit. And I would throw. And I would, like, taste it. And I would just be like, fuck this and throw it out. Because, like, obviously, because I was so obsessed with it, I knew what it was supposed to taste like. And I was obviously, like, really trying, like, subconsciously to recreate something that I experienced with my father. So trial and error. Trial and error. Then fucking Covid happens, and in 2020, and I started mixing again. Still bad. But then something happened where I would, like, I would mix dough, try to make pizza. It would come out bad. Everybody in. Like, my roommates at the time were like, nah, man, it's good. Like, like, yeah, no, it's not. It's fucking shit. I hate it. But then since I had nothing to do, I would just stew and be angry. And then instead of, like, going to sleep or whatever, I would just start reading. I was just like. And I found these, like, forums that look like they're from, like, the 90s called, like, pizzamakin.com and, like, if anybody listening that knows, shout out pizzamakin.com because there's all sorts of heads on there, like old school dudes that own pizzerias in the city. Like, I met, like, who I consider, like, a mentor of mine, like, through that forum. And then I started, like, really reading about fermentation and. And mixing and tomatoes and different cheeses and whatever. And so I learned a lot. And I started talking to this guy named Andrew Bellucci who passed away a couple of years ago. He was like, an OG when Lombardi's reopened in the 90s, he was the pizza man there. And he ended up getting, like, arrested for, like, embezzlement from a prior job he had at, like, a law Firm. And so he has this crazy story, and he was always just, like, posting all sorts of information that anybody ever asked for. He worked at Joe's for a bit, so he's like, oh, you want the Joe's dough recipe? You want the Joe's, like, tomato sauce recipe? Like, he would just, like, share it. He's like, I don't believe in, like, holding this stuff back. Like, I'm a pizza maker. We should be sharing this, yo.

[B]

We. I don't mean to cut you off at all, but I like. I like this aspect because sometimes we have people come stage or they trail and they'll just take photos of the recipe.

[A]

Right? Right.

[B]

And at first I was like, bro, disrespectful. Come on, like, chill, you know, like, don't be taking photos.

[A]

So, like, like, yeah, blatant like that. It's. It's not. It's hard to not, like, take offense to it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But at the same time, it's like, like, no one's going to make it like you.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I started to feel. And I was like, look, I think you should be more elegant about how you crib other people's recipes. Like, just maybe, like, wait till I'm not here to take the photos because if you do it in front of me, I'm going to say something. But I'm like, yo, my brother in Christ, if you can do it, do it right. Do it. Cuz. This hard.

[A]

Like, it's not easy.

[B]

It's not easy. The only way you are going to be good at this is what you said, is if you're waking up in the middle of the night thinking about this dish, it's going to be good. Right? You see me all the time.

[C]

He's awake in the middle of the night. Like, I'll just hear, like I should. I'll hear a stack of books, like, move. And I'm like, okay, he's leaving the room. He's going to go read the cookbook and like, yeah, be online. Like, Reddit forums for sure.

[B]

If I can't. If I don't finish the dish in my head before going to bed, I will be under the covers with the light on the phone, like, all right, look at this, look at that. It just has captured my curiosity.

[A]

Yeah. And that's what's exciting about cooking, right? If you. If. If, like you said, like, if your brain is making you be like, I can't sleep. I need to figure this out. That's a special thing. A lot of people will just Be like, here's the fudgeing cheeseburger or whatever. Yeah, you know? Yeah. And then like, move on with their day. And like, it's good enough because I'm good at this, right? Like, so it's like. But being scared or like being scared of like failing or being scared of like people not enjoying it, that's what drives you to like, make it better, right? So it's like if you don't have that, if you just think that you're a really good chef and whatever you put out, people are going to fudge with. Like, you're a dumbass.

[B]

You're a dumb ass. And like, thank God you guys had your roommates and I have like Natasha and Santa. Because it's like you need someone, someone to be like, better than last time, worse than last time. Keep going, keep going. And like, that's honest with you because, like, it's really easy to just be like, yeah, fire. And then you stop. It's like, you gotta know you suck.

[A]

You have to know you suck. And I knew I. I knew I sucked. I knew I sucked, like, because you could just. I could just see it. Like, it wasn't what I wanted it to look like. It wasn't what I wanted it to taste like. So that's what kind of kept me going because I was like, I know exactly what it's. Because I was so fucking obsessed with this one thing. Yeah, I know exactly what it's supposed to taste like. So it's almost like a weird leg up because like, I feel like, you know, like I don't know that I. Other people have spent as much time eating pizza as me. You know what I mean? So I'm like, this is okay. Because I could, like, I would, I would do experiments, be like, oh, this tastes kind of like that place that's kind of cool or whatever. But like, it's not. That's not exactly what I want it to taste like. So what am I doing here? I must have. I must have tried out like 20 to 30 different brands of tomatoes, like, just to find like what I needed or what it. What hit in the way that I thought it should hit. Same thing with cheese. Like, you know, a lot of the cheese at pizzerias, these you can't get in read like in supermarkets or whatever. So it's like I could never get that, you know, that type of flavor because, like the grande mozzarella is like the Wisconsin cheese. Like, you can't get. You can only get that from like, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Ace Indico. Shout out. Acentico. So I met this dude, Andrew Bellucci on these forums. He had just opened, like, finally, after this long ass journey, finally opened up his own pizzeria in Astoria called Bellucci's Pizzeria. Awesome. Cool. Awesome.

[B]

And like, I did Food writers. No. Did they know?

[A]

No, I think he. Yeah, he did get a lot of attention because of his crazy backstory.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because he was. He was from Lombardi's. He does have this crazy journey of.

[B]

So people went.

[A]

People went.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

Also right around that time, this weird, like, I wish it was like, it's not available anywhere to watch because it never got picked up. But there was this docu series that came out called Untitled Pizza Movie. And in late 2020, Metrograph was doing these like, online screenings because the theater wasn't open and they screened it. And it's like eight hours long. And a lot of it doesn't have to do with Bellucci specifically, but a lot of it, it's like kind of intertwined. Basically, it's about these two dudes from New York back in the day who, like, in the 90s, mid-90s, got a camera and pretended they were from the Food Network and would go to pizzerias to try to eat for free.

[B]

That's fire.

[A]

And that's how they met this dude, Andrew Bellucci. And then they found out he got arrested, so they interview him in prison. And so I remember watching this at the same time as like reading about him on these forums or talking to him on these forums, like, whoa, this dude's crazy. Like, I gotta meet this guy. And just so happened that he had just opened. Finally opened his own shop, which was like his life, lifelong goal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I went and I met him and I was like, yo, we had spoken on these four people, like, private messaging us. He had just spoke and he was like, so welcoming and so nice. And like, we kept talking after and he was like, I'd love to meet you for a drink one day. Like, you, like, you seem really passionate. And I was like, cool, man. Like, for sure. And then I met him for a drink in Astoria at this place called Judy and Punch. And we ended up talking for like three hours and just getting like, wasted. And he just told me his life story, which is insane. And at the time I was just getting like, decent enough at home and I was like, okay, like, I kind of have something here, but, like, I need to go work in pizzerias.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So at that time, right as I was hanging out with him that night. I was like, I got a trail at Scars tomorrow. And he's like, oh, Scar is a good friend of mine. I'll put in a good word for you. Whatever. I was like, you don't have to do that. But that's nice. Whatever. I trailed there and I. But I sent them my. When I sent them my resume, I didn't work. I hadn't worked. I hadn't cooked in so long. And I never worked in a pizzeria. So I just sent the manager at the time photos of pizza I'd made in my apartment. I was like, I made this in my home oven. This is like, kind of like what I'm. What I'm doing. This is my backstory. And they were like, come trail. Which is cool, because obviously I think a lot of people be like, okay, fuck off, kid, or whatever. So I went. It was between me and this other guy who had, like, tons of experience. I didn't get the job. Totally cool. Scar's my boy. We're friends. They eventually offered me a job later, but I already was working somewhere else. But anyway, Andrew Bellucci was like, come work at my pizzeria. Since you didn't get that job, I'll just give you a job. I was like, all right, I'll commute to Astoria. Paid me really well. I learned, like, I learned a lot. Learned how to work the ovens there. Learned how to make pizza, like, properly. Like big fucking 20 inch pieces where I was, like, making smaller ones at my house. And then, let's see, the commute got to be really annoying. I was coming from Bushwick to Astoria. It took me like an hour and change to get there. And I was becoming friendly with, like, the industry guys. And so I took a job there. I quit Bellucci's, went to Lindustry. It was like two stops from my house, so. And that's where I spent the most time working. And that's where I learned like crazy, like, because they just had a lot. They had. They had. When I started there, they had just took over next door to their Brooklyn location. It was still really small, but, like, it went from, like, the tiny, tiny spot to, like, a little bit bigger. And the lines were, of course, just down the street all day. So I just learned how to, like, fucking go.

[B]

There are also guys that have knowledge outside of pizza that they can bring to the dough. And, like, in a scientific way, no, for sure, they're not just, like, following recipes and cooking the shit out of it. Right? Those guys are scientists.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. They're crazy. But that's where I learned how to, like, really hustle on the line out of pizzeria because, like, every station was nuts. And they, like. I started on, like, working slices, like the slice station, but slice station there is kind of like garmo, because, like, they top every slice to order. Yeah. They only just fire, like, house pies that are just plain.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you apply the toppings yourself, take it back out. So that was really cool because I'd never seen a pizzeria do that before. And then, you know, work in the oven, which is, like, probably the hardest job at a pizzeria. Maintaining the temperature, managing everything, making sure that the bottoms are cooked properly as well as the tops. And then I worked at pizza station for a bit, and then I think I was just like, well, I want to try somewhere else now. So I worked at Lindustry almost a year. Then I went to this spot called FNF in Carroll Gardens, and I worked there for a very short time. And then I realized I was, like, getting bored because I wasn't working on my own shit as much. Yeah. And I quit. And I just. I didn't have much money saved up, but I had some. And I was like, I'm just gonna quit and keep focusing on this at home. And then within, like, three months, I was like, all right, I'm going to sell some pizzas to some friends out of my apartment, like, low key. Because, like, a lot of them had been encouraging me, like, like, dude, what.

[B]

Oven did you have?

[A]

Just the oven in my apartment.

[B]

Wow. What? You just cranked it?

[A]

Yeah, you crank it. And I think that I kind of benefited because it didn't have a window on it, so I think it retained heat a lot better. And I just had, like, a giant piece of steel in the oven.

[B]

Okay, you did put a steel, like, stone in there, kind of.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But.

[B]

But the crazy thing is, too, is, like, if you can do it with whack equipment.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That kind of prepares you to, like, really do battle for sure.

[A]

Yeah. That was the whole thing, like, learning how to, like, learning how to make what I thought was a good pizza in that shitty oven, because that's all I had. So I was like, all right, well, I'm going to make it work somehow. And that's like tinkering with the dough, like, tinkering the hydration, like, to make sure. Because, like, the. I think the max I could get it with, like, I would gun the. The steel. And I think I used to Be able to get it, like, pretty close to 600 just by, like, keeping the broiler on the entire time, because it was a shelf broiler at the bottom, so it's just shooting up from the bottom. And so I got pretty good at it. I started being like, okay, this tastes pretty good enough to where I had the balls to, like, sell it to just my friends or whatever.

[B]

This is like building a car yourself and then going to race. F1. Yeah.

[C]

Do you remember, like, the first time you were just in your apartment and you were like, okay, yeah, I did it, like, the first time. You were just like this. I want it to look like and taste like.

[A]

Yeah, I do. It was, like, right after I quit that job. Like, it was close, and I was happy. But there was this one time where I was just like, all right. Like, I just invited some people over, and I don't know if I just mixed it. Mixed the dough really well that time or, like, proper. It was, like, prop. Like, properly fermented because I was still learning, you know, how to do all that. But, like, some friends came over, and I was like, what? Like, even, like, me, like, while I was cooking them for them, I was like, whoa, these, like. These look fucking sick. I hope they taste good. Then we all, like, would take a slice, and I was like. I think I, like, looked at my friend. I was like, that's it. Like, I know it sounds like cinematic whatever, but, like, it kind of was.

[B]

You remember? No. You remember the moment you nail a dish?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You always remember. It's such a good question. Like, every cook remembers the time they nailed it, because then it's done and it's out of your head.

[A]

Right, right. You know, and of course, it wasn't done. I kept tinkering.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But it was like. It was, like, there to where I was like, this tastes like it came from a pizzeria. Was the leap.

[B]

That was the moment it leaped. You leaked over the wall. Question. What. What in. And so, you know, there's all these styles of pizza, and you. You've mentioned a lot of the places you worked and the names, but what do you think was your, so to speak, innovation or stylistic choice you made with your pizza? Like, I got my opinion of it, but I want to know what you think was your stylistic thing?

[A]

Just, like, I'm so. The. The way I could answer it, the best is that there's this. You know that bar, Saint Dimfness on Avenue A, next to superiority. So the bouncer there named Patrick, when I was doing my residency at Superiority Burger. I would bring him a pie all the time. The first time I brought him a pie, he was like standing out in the cold. I was like, yo, Patrick, you want some pizza? And he's like, yeah, yeah, please bring him a pie. I leave and I was going home. Like it was like two in the morning. I was going to Josie's and then going home. Wherever the next day I see him and he like, it almost looked like he was like gonna burst in. I swear, like, it looked like he was gonna burst into tears. This is like an old school big ass New York dude that was like, dog. Like this tasted, tastes like it tasted like in the 80s. Like it doesn't taste like this anymore. I don't know how you fucking did it. Blah, blah. And that's exactly what I was going for. Obviously I was born 87, so like, I didn't have. I had the 90s flavor profile in my head, but just like old school Queens shops, Valley Stream shops, or just like that kind of area, like that just did it right and gave a shit like, to where you could see it. Like you'd see like the dough. Like you could see, like it was cooked properly. You could see they took their time with it enough to like, to serve it to you. To where they're like, they. I feel like they were proud of it or whatever. There's a places that are just turning and burning.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, we know what they are. Yeah.

[A]

But it's just like the shops that I grew up with, like an amalgamation of that and like, you know, as I got older, obviously, like Dafara. Was it like when Dom was alive? Like, you know, like I never.

[B]

Oh, I got rapid fire for you. We're gonna say that for rapid fire. I actually have. I have one of my favorite rapid fires ever lined up for you. But no, it's cool. I feel like the answer to the question is, is that there wasn't like a, oh, I did this different fermentation or I use this different thing. It was like, no, I just want the care and attention. And the way I see the thing in New York that is most analogous to Batman to me is the pizza man. Because in every generation, in every era, one person rises up and it's just like, I want to do it. I want to do it because it's not about the recipe, it's how hard you work it, how much you care. Every day paying attention to each pie in the oven. And it's like that dude puts the city on his back in a way no one else does. Like, not a player for the Knicks, not baseball, but like Dom Defar. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

The pizza man to me is Batman in the city. And like, when that guy arises, because you go through years where that guy is not here. Like, since Dom passed, I think there was a gap. Yeah, there was a gap.

[A]

And don't compare me to Dom.

[B]

No, no, no. But, like, I do think that your journey is very similar to a lot of great pizza men. Like, there are people who, like, go to culinary school, and we're not those guys. It's different. Like, when I work with the culinary school kids in the kitchen, the defining characteristic of them versus people like yourself or me who are self taught is they turn and say, chef, what do I do here? They always expect someone else to have an answer for them. And I'm like, figure it out. You know, like, play with it. Make mistakes. And they're like, oh, you know, do it.

[A]

It's like repetition, right? Like, well, especially with pizza making. Like, the pizza station is like, if you don't have those reps of stretching all day, every day, it's like, you can't. You. You couldn't work like a busy service because you're just like, going slow. Like, you, you're nervous, you're going slow. Like, you just have to get thrown into it. That's what like, I respect. Like, Nick and Mossimo from Linda street because they're just like, they'd be like, chris, make pizza. And I'd be like, on the oven, like, you sure? It's like, busy, like, make pizza. And I would just go and like, yeah, of course, like, the first few wouldn't come out great, but as you keep going. Yeah, you get better.

[B]

And I like that Chef Nick is from Eel Bar too, and Elle industry. But we were just talking about Eel Bar in the last episode. But I was. I was going to say, like, you're thinking of.

[A]

You're thinking of Aaron.

[B]

Oh, Aaron.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Oh, wait.

[A]

But Nick used to. Nick. Nick was. Nick was a Sue at Servos back in the day, before he was out of industry.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So similar. They're homies. They're home.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[B]

And then what I was going to say is, with the pizza guy thing, it's like, there's the people who go to culinary school and they try to do it. There's people who grew up in it, but then there's people like you who are like, I just love it. You began as a Fan. And I think that is a very powerful place to come from. Like, love and passion and fan, for sure. You know?

[A]

And then also, like, it's also just like a grief process for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The whole thing is just like, it's for my dad. So it's like, I'm not gonna stop. It's like, not gonna. I'm not. Like, I started it, right? So I made some progress early on, and I was like, okay. But, like, I have to keep going now because obviously I'm getting something from this. I was going out to pizzerias by myself before I started making pizza. And like, that was obviously, like, you know, kind of depressing, like, thing where I'm just sitting there alone thinking about my pops. But, like, the fact that my best bud that's not around anymore has somehow pushed me while he's not here to, like, start, like, have a career. He's, like, pretty fucking crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's hard. Like, I'm just like. As I'm saying these words right now, it's like, the first time I'm, like, really thinking about this. Like, fucking nuts. I have a shot. And it's all because of him.

[B]

Yeah. It's his love and it's your connection and the things you do. Like, for me, when my dad is basketball.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, and have you read that book, H's for Hawk?

[A]

No, I don't think so.

[B]

I always. Because I always try to give it to her to read. It's. It's about, like, a woman whose father passed and she gets into falconry.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like, I just think you would enjoy it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So sorry to, like, I haven't read it yet.

[A]

It's cool.

[B]

But you would. Like, Asia Falconry? Yeah. It's really sick. Yeah, it's cool. But no, man, like, I. I do think you have a risen as, like, pizza man of the era. You know what I mean? Like, you just give a fuck and you got one shop. And I think that is something in common with a lot of the really, really great ones.

[A]

Like, right?

[B]

It's a one shot.

[A]

That's, like, my least favorite question when people are like, when are you opening the second one? When's the second one coming? It's like, bro, we. It's been just. Just over a year.

[B]

I had. I had one Bauhaus, you know? Like, I did one in L. A. And I just did not like it. I didn't like it because it was just like, you're stretched thin. And I didn't. I wasn't like, with My guys, I was like, this isn't why I did it. You know? Like, I don't need that much money. I just need enough money.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I really enjoyed having one shot.

[A]

One shop is cool. My shop is. You saw it. It's tiny. Yeah, it's so tiny. So, like, it wasn't my initial, like, dream Shop. Like, my dream was, like, you know, our Turo's on West Houston.

[B]

Yes, bro. Again, it's on the rapid fire. Because I love Arturos, and everybody sleeps on it.

[A]

Yeah. I like. I think it's pretty similar to John's of Bleecker Street.

[B]

Yeah. But it's also on the list.

[A]

And, like, no shame. I think John's is great, but I prefer Arturos because I think it's, like, a pretty similar pie without the fuss.

[B]

Yo, bro, it's so crazy you said that, because I see your pie like that, and I do not understand why no one mentions Arturos as one of the top pies.

[A]

I think it is.

[C]

And it.

[B]

I think it's in the top three for me.

[A]

Top three. I like that. Cool.

[B]

And there's the piano in there. There's TV to watch the Knicks. That is my ideal place to eat pizza.

[A]

So the front room at Arturo's, that's my dream shop.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Little bar, a few booths. I didn't get that the first time around. So I do want to have that.

[B]

You need that.

[A]

I need that.

[B]

You need that. And I've talked every time we walk by, like, babe, we should go on a date here. We should go on a date here. And there was, especially if you get.

[A]

That, one of those booths in the front with the piano. Like, that's the best date.

[B]

The booth. And they got the red clam pie.

[A]

Right?

[B]

You know, they got a red clam, and it comes out crusty and hard every time. That. That was the first slice I fell in love with in New York.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

It's not a slice shop, but I say slice, but that's the first place I fell in love with. And then my pizza education really came with Francis from Artichoke.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because I lived on 12th street when he opened, and I would just hang out at the shop, and I had a little streetwear brand, so I printed the artichoke employee shirts. And then, like, I worked for Ghostface sometimes, and he's from Staten island, so we knew a lot of people in Staten island together. Right. But Francis taught me a lot about pizza and also how to open Bauhaus.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because I was looking at locations in.

[A]

France's the first one was on 14, 14th. And then the second one, that's the one that I went to. Oh, no.

[B]

The first one was on Rivington.

[A]

My bad. Yeah.

[B]

The second one was on 14th. Yeah. I'm an idiot. And Francis, it was one block from Artichokes. And Francis was like, yo, Eddie, don't get a spot too big. I go, why? He goes, the sidewalks for free. And I was like, you know what? That's a good point. Francis, he just, like. Francis was just like, had street knowledge. And like, they got huge and is not the same pie. But when they came out. That is the only time I've seen as much hype around a slice as. As you have gotten.

[A]

Right. I remember that happened. I didn't have it early on, though, so I have no idea what it tasted like.

[B]

That early on. One was like, there's a new chick at the strip club. There's some new shit at the club.

[C]

Yo, first bbl.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just like. Yeah, that shit was crazy because he came through and the pie was perfect, but he had the new flavor. He had the artichoke. And it was so genius. It was so smart.

[A]

It's still wild to me to this day. I don't think I've ever tried it. That's the seamless.

[C]

The artichoke slice.

[A]

The artichoke slice, specifically, I've had their, like, regular slice.

[C]

Oh, my God. You have to. It's like such an experience.

[B]

It would crack. It was the one when you folded. It cracks. You know what I mean? But then pulled. It had that cakiness, but then the crack and the burn and it. That the dough was tasty and delicious. But that artichoke was a new thing. And you know how it is. Like, when it's done right, it cracks. It'll scrape and burn the roof of your mouth. They did that. They did. It was so fucking. They were so on fire when they opened. I have to say, you're the only person that's been that on fire when they opened as them. Those are the two peaks I've seen in pizza.

[A]

It was crazy. It was really crazy. But I think it's just because I didn't have a proper place to do it prior. And since I was doing it out of my apartment, I obviously can only do so many per week or do it one day a week. It was only 20 pies a day, so it wasn't intentional. But it, you know, it created hype because that's all I could do. It's A one. I could do one pizza at a time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I would start at 4:00 and I'd be like, cleaning my kitchen at like, three in the morning.

[B]

Yeah. But you. You handed me one and it wasn't hot. And that's another thing Francis taught me. He's like, yo, if you want to test the pizza, man, don't get it heated up. He was like, get it out of the glass and just see if it holds. And I remember you gave it to me on the paper plate walking down the street. And it cracked. And I was like, oh, this cracked and it's not hot. And I ate. I was like, yo, this is crazy.

[A]

I'm glad you liked it.

[B]

It's crazy.

[C]

Yeah, but we were like, swapping bikes. Like, I was like. He was like, holding it for me. I think we had our son.

[B]

Yeah. We ran the train on that.

[A]

We did.

[C]

We were like, fight. I was like, my turn.

[B]

It was so damn good, bro. Oh, so I want to do the rapid fire, because then we can just get into it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But this is fun. And I kept it just to the old. Because I know how pizza guys in the same era beef. But this is.

[A]

That's funny. I feel like none of us beef. I think that. Well, maybe the old, old school guys.

[B]

Oh, you beef. You guys all. I mean, you. You have not. I'm gonna give it to. You have never mentioned anything but pizza guys. Pizza guys.

[A]

I think that we're all friends. I'm friends with. I'm friends with. I'm friends with Nick and Mossy. I'm friends with Scar. I feel like most of the. I think there. I think that as long as, like. I think that the dudes that are beefing with people, like other pizza people specifically, are the ones that are either, like, just jealous or they're not made.

[B]

They're not made. I would say the made guys don't beef. The guys you mentioned, they don't beef. Okay, maybe you're mid levels. The Kappas are not beefing.

[A]

I try not.

[B]

The dude's not in the conversation. Beef. Do you know what I mean?

[C]

Well, they're trying to get in the conversation. They gotta. They gotta get a little heat.

[B]

I think Lucia, Avenue X is there. You know, you're there. L Industries there. Those are. Those are the slices, you know?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And then, like, people that like scars, you know? So those are the. No, I just. People. There are a lot of people like scars. And it's legit. It's great. It's just my Purse. It's not my personal life. No one has to mention anything here but that. I didn't even mean to say it like that, but rapid fire old school pizza places. Lombardi's or Grimaldi's?

[A]

Lombardi's.

[B]

Great. And I'm also asking at the peak, I'll say this so I'll start over again. These are the rapid fire old school pizza places, and we're only judging them by their peaks. Lombardi's or Grimaldi's?

[A]

Lombardi's.

[B]

Okay. Lombardi's or Totonos.

[A]

Never had Totonos. Still, which is fucked.

[B]

Tonos was really good. Totono's.

[A]

That's what I've heard. It looks perfect. I just never got out.

[B]

It's cakeier. It's a little more denser, but it cracks and it pools and it's. It's. It's quite good. Okay, Lombardi's or original Patsies?

[A]

Patsies.

[B]

Oh, sweeter tomato.

[A]

Sweeter tomato. And they use the. I like that. They use, like, you have the choice between the fresh mozzarella and the age mozzarella.

[B]

It's good, it's good, it's good, it's good. Okay. Original Patis or John's on Bleeker.

[A]

Patsies.

[B]

Patsies or Arturos?

[A]

Arturos. Arturos. I'm loyal to Arturos.

[B]

I like the crust on our turtles. It gets bigger, it burns.

[A]

And it's also just like, like, it also just comes with, like, the vibe too. That's like all. It's all family. They're all so same people every time.

[B]

The best are turtles or dafara.

[A]

Yeah. When Dom was alive at their peak. Yeah. The far is like the most insane things I've ever eaten.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The first time.

[B]

Yes. Top three bites of food I've ever had is. Is Saba in season at Sushi Shin. The original Ding Tai Fung soup dumpling and the slice of the forest is the top three craziest things I've ever eaten.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Okay. Defara or original Joe's?

[A]

Defara.

[B]

Dafara or artichoke? You never went so far. It's Defara. It's. I. I do think there is one correct answer, and it is Defara.

[A]

I mean, it's where everybody got everything that's doing pizza now. It's like I don't put basil on my regular pie, but yeah, the parm and the olive oil, like, that's all Dom, so.

[B]

And I think the commitment. The commitment. Like, he touched every pie. Like, you don't take him out of.

[A]

The Oven with his bare hands is so fucking.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Crazy.

[B]

Yeah. And have you been.

[C]

Not at its peak.

[B]

No.

[C]

Never experienced it.

[B]

And I never will it is that. That, like, that's just New York to me. Like the journey to Midwood. Like, I would go. I wait in the line. And that. That is the.

[A]

Never really minded waiting in the line. I feel like I remember going there with like five people the last time I went before Dom passed away. So it was probably like, I can't. He died during the pandemic. After the pandemic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

20, 22, I think. But the last time I was probably there was probably like 20, 17 or 18.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was with five people. We ordered like five pies because they were 16 inch pie also.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's the thing. Well, I could only fit a 16 inch pie in my oven, but, like. And then that's also like a. A nod to Arturo's and John's. Like, the full pies. Like, everybody's getting a fresh pizza. We could talk about that. But yeah, you wait for two hours.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

After you order. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I didn't give a no.

[B]

It was awesome.

[A]

To the bar down the street, kind of time it out. Be like, all right, maybe we should walk back now.

[B]

Yeah. And back in the day, too. Like, 0506-0708. Like, you'd wait 20 minutes. It wasn't bad at all. But, like, he's also the rare guy that did a great round and a great square.

[A]

Was really good.

[B]

Very rarely have a spot that can do the round and the square. Like, I didn't put lnbuni on because they do the square, you know, like, and the history. I like that you went Lombardi's for multiple rounds because that whole era kind of comes from Lombardi's. Like, all those guys Totonos, John's of Bleecker, they all worked at Lombardi's first and then spread out from there, for sure. So that. That era of pizza is cool. I'm excited for. In 10 years when people are like, all right, L. Industry. Or Chrissy's, you know, or Lucia Avenue X. You know, they are. They're doing it right now, but I feel like, like, you. You need space from it.

[A]

Yeah, Right.

[B]

Like, we. We gotta, like, see the peaks and valleys to be like, okay.

[A]

You know, the pizza fanatics are psycho.

[B]

They're psycho.

[A]

They're psycho.

[B]

They want judgment on talking so much. Yeah.

[A]

Constantly comparing. Like, you hear it in the shop all the time. They're like, well, yeah. Industry. Like, it's like just Enjoy it.

[B]

It's great, though. I like the psychosis. I can't. I can't front. You're in it, so it sucks.

[A]

It's cool. I just. Course my pizza is not going to taste the same as Linda Street's pizza, because that's not what I'm trying to do.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. But I like. I like food. Beef. Like, I was at the Bow Wars. The Bow wars were fun, you know? It's fun, man. It's fun. It's good.

[A]

It's interesting. Or it's, like, entertaining, I guess. But at the end of the day, it's just like, I just give a. About what we're doing.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's good. I can't front. I love beef. I can't even derive energy from it.

[A]

What you said everybody talks. I mean, I talk shit on them.

[B]

It's great, bro. It's great. It's great.

[C]

Battery in this, man.

[B]

It's great.

[C]

He, like, wakes up, he's like, I'd.

[B]

Walk into momofuga, but let me get two. All right. I'm gonna go back to my kitchen. You know, Fun, man.

[A]

No, There is something about going and trying something else, and you're, like, kind of just want to eat mine. Yeah.

[B]

And you just make the eye contact, so. So I'll see you later.

[A]

It was funny.

[B]

I remember there was a cook at Momofu, like, on their last day, what they did, they ordered. I think over there, they would be like, someone's last day. Like, we're going to order food from somewhere. He ordered it from us, and I was like, yo, you're going out. Salty, brother. It was funny. That was a good era. But I'm glad you guys are. You guys are bringing it back. There's a lot of good pizza in the city right now.

[A]

Yeah, man.

[B]

There's years where there isn't, and, like, there's really good pizza right now.

[C]

It feels like there is. Right now is a good. We're in a good spot.

[B]

Yeah. Motherfuckers care.

[A]

They do. Yeah. The good ones do. Yeah.

[B]

What else are you eating besides pizza?

[A]

Okay. It's a lot of pizza, Eddie. I eat it on my. I eat other people's pizza on my days off. Like, I mean, obviously, like, whenever. Whenever I'm in the East Village, I'm going to Superiority Burger and then eating whatever Brooks got from, like, the market that day, whatever dish he came up with for the special day. And his desserts are just, like, insane. And then not necessarily pizza, but it is Italian, but, like, like, bread and Salt in Jersey City. My boy Rick Easton, like, some of the craziest food I've ever had in my entire life. And any chance I get to go out there and sit and talk shit with him while he's making pizza by his ovens, like, his bread is insane. Anything he does with beans is always insane. Like, his sandwiches, I just. I could sit there for hours and, like. And also, he's just, like, a wealth of knowledge, so I love being around him just to, like, absorb whatever the he's talking about. What else am I eating? I don't know. I feel like I'm just eating like a kid these days because I feel like it's just, like, I'm so stressed out all the time.

[B]

Question. Have you been to Eel Bar?

[A]

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

You enjoy it?

[A]

I love it.

[B]

Me, too.

[A]

I think Aaron's incredible.

[B]

I. Yeah. I feel like that's, like, the most underrated restaurant in this. I just feel like it is on fire.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And guys like us know about it, which I wanted to ask you, but I'm just, like. It's interesting to me. Like, they haven't had that moment where it's like, this is the restaurant, you know? And I. For me, it's been the restaurant.

[A]

For me, it's fucking cool. I need to go back. I've only been the one time, like, right after we opened last year, so it was probably, like, October or November. But, yeah, it's incredible. And also, the space is amazing, the music, the service. It's funny that I was like, I'm not even. I don't. I've only been to Miami a couple times. But I was like, oh, you got, like, the Max Club Deuce, like, lighting. But he's like, that's kind of the Odeon clock. And I was like, oh, yeah, true.

[B]

That's true. That's the dirt bag divide. Because I'm like, yo, Max Club Deuce. I've only been to Odeon with you, and for business. I love Bounce Deuce, man. Yeah, the best. But amazing, bro. Thank you for coming on the show, dude.

[A]

Thanks for having me.

[B]

Congrats on everything.