Cannonball with Wesley Morris — Episode Summary
Episode Title: Does “The Drama” Know Zendaya Is Black?
Air Date: April 23, 2026
Host: Wesley Morris
Guest: Gina (Tina) Shirless, Lifestyle and Culture Reporter, The New York Times
Main Theme / Purpose
This episode examines how recent films and television dramas depict interracial relationships—specifically those between Black women and white men—using the recent film "The Drama" (starring Zendaya and Robert Pattinson) as a case study. Wesley Morris and guest Gina Shirless explore whether these works truly acknowledge the racial dynamics at play, particularly in how they handle (or avoid) the complexity of Blackness as a narrative force. The conversation extends to broader questions of representation, audience expectation, and the patterns emerging in pop culture depictions of interracial love.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Zendaya’s Charisma, Range … and Material That Underserves Her
- Zendaya is celebrated for her performance in "Euphoria," but Wesley feels film roles lag behind in giving her dramatically rich material ("the movies have not responded to how good she is on that show with material that is worthy of her" – Wesley, [01:32]).
- "The Drama" is singled out as an "almost good use" of Zendaya, ultimately hemmed in by its refusal to address the obvious: its star is a Black woman marrying a white man, and the ensuing narrative doesn’t engage honestly with that reality ([02:44]-[03:51]).
2. The Plot and Problems of “The Drama”
- The movie centers on wedding weekend confessions. Zendaya’s character Emma confesses that as a teen, she planned—but didn’t carry out—a mass shooting ([05:46]).
- The White characters (especially fiancé, Charlie) react with disproportionate anger and suspicion, which Gina and Wesley see as deeply racialized, though the film avoids saying so ([07:05], [09:09]).
- The critique: The movie aims to be "colorblind," refusing to integrate Emma’s Blackness and the interracial dynamic into its narrative, but ends up producing moments that invite racial interpretation anyway:
"There’s a way in which the film also doesn’t know what it’s dealing with in having cast… this black woman as the star of its movie." (Wesley, [03:51])
3. Racial Dynamics Ignored, Subtly Erupt
- The absence of Black friends and family for Emma feels glaring ([09:07], [12:10]).
- Gina describes Emma as a “Black manic pixie dream girl”—a narrative device created around her to facilitate the white male lead’s journey ([09:27]).
- Flashbacks to Emma’s youth: The hostility she faces at her mostly white school and the lack of deeper exploration about her experience as a Black outsider and the psychological toll it took ([10:46]-[11:47]).
- Film shies away from discussing the biracial identity or the absence/presence of her Black and white parents in meaningful ways ([12:27]-[13:01]).
4. Broader Media Patterns: Black Women & White Men
- Both hosts point out a sudden prevalence of pop culture depictions centering Black women with white men, often marked by avoidance of the racial elephant in the room—which paradoxically leads to heightened, unresolved racial tension ([14:44]-[16:49]).
- "These relationships cannot happen almost period, without strife or drama." (Wesley, [26:57])
5. Comparative Analysis: “Bridgerton,” “Queen Charlotte,” and “Presumed Innocent”
- The guest draws a parallel with Queen Charlotte from "Bridgerton": while the main series aims for a “colorblind” aesthetic, the spinoff foregrounds racial difference but still fails to grapple deeply with the costs and consequences ([19:43]-[23:38]).
“They deceived this black woman. And I can't help but think that... she wouldn't have done that to all the other women... But they deceived her.” (Gina, [23:20])
- Wesley discusses “Presumed Innocent” (Apple TV+), where a Black wife (played by Ruth Negga) is central but her subjectivity as a Black woman in an interracial marriage remains unexplored; her suffering is present, but the show's writing never gives her full expression ([25:00]-[26:57]).
6. Data and Reality vs. Pop Culture
- Gina shares studies on divorce: white husband/Black wife couples are 44% less likely to divorce than white/white after 10 years; the opposite is true in Black husband/white wife pairings ([27:29]).
- This gets contrasted with the on-screen pattern where these relationships are fraught, troubled, or deadly ("show me one that’s made it to until death do us part without somebody murdering the other person." – Wesley, [31:40]).
7. The “Get Out” Effect and Changing Tropes
- Since “Get Out,” pop culture has largely moved away from Black man/white woman interracial narratives—those are depicted as especially toxic or dangerous ([29:56]-[30:14]).
- Now, Black woman/white man pairings are more visible, but it’s unclear whether these works provide healthier narratives or simply new avenues of unresolved anxiety ([30:42]-[32:36]).
- In real life, these relationships (Black woman/white man) are actually comparably stable, belying the "toxic" pop culture depictions ([28:50]-[29:02]).
8. What’s Being Avoided?
- Both hosts notice that TV and film works are invested in showing that these relationships can “just exist,” yet narrative escalation always veers toward paranoia, violence, or dissolution—not normalcy ([32:07]).
- Wesley calls for simply: romances where the biggest issues are mundane, rather than existential crisis about racial difference ([31:48], [32:07]).
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
“She is the girl of Robert Pattinson’s character’s dreams… I refer to her as the Black manic pixie dream girl, which we don’t... there’s not that many Black manic pixie dream girls.”
— Gina, [09:27]
“Every time… the more the movie tries to sit on this racial question, something winds up splurting out anyway.”
— Wesley, [15:25]
“These relationships cannot happen almost period, without strife or drama.”
— Wesley, [26:57]
"We’re spending so much time on young Emma. I also wanted to understand how adult Emma was processing all of this. We really just stay with Charlie… and his spiral."
— Gina, [11:37]
“In real life, it seems as though these relationships do pretty well.”
— Gina, [28:50]
“If what we were being offered are stable, interracial relationships where, you know, basic problems happen—boredom, disappointment—not shock, paranoia, angst, and regret…”
— Wesley, [32:07]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- [01:32] – Wesley’s opening take on Zendaya and her career
- [05:46] – Gina reveals the central twist of “The Drama” (Emma’s confession)
- [07:42] – Discussing the group’s reaction to Emma’s confession, racial subtext
- [09:27] – “Black manic pixie dream girl” and narrative positioning
- [10:46]-[11:47] – Flashbacks, the psychological context, and the lack of racial acknowledgment
- [12:27] – Observations about Emma’s parents and interracial family on screen
- [14:44]-[15:34] – “Surface” handling of race, what the film won’t say
- [19:43]-[24:15] – Analysis of "Bridgerton" and Queen Charlotte, Blackness in prestige TV
- [25:00]-[26:57] – “Presumed Innocent,” Ruth Negga’s performance, the “cosmetic Blackness” problem
- [27:29]-[29:02] – Real-life divorce stats and their contradiction with onscreen narratives
- [29:56]-[30:14] – “Get Out” and the declining depiction of Black man/white woman relationships
- [31:40] – The parade of onscreen interracial couples—none normal
- [35:29]-[43:19] – “End of the Road” game: evaluating famous interracial couples in film/TV for their narrative outcomes
Segment: “End of the Road” Game (Interracial Relationships in Pop Culture)
Host and guest play a game, analyzing fictional and reality TV couples—do they “make it” or break up?
- Examples discussed: "Something New," "The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt," "Summer House," and Disney Channel’s "Zapped" ([35:29]-[43:19])
- Running joke: The stakes are whether Wesley gets to “keep his interracial relationship.”
Takeaways
- Films and TV often cast Black women in interracial pairings but are either oblivious to or inexplicably silent about the accompanying racial complexity, which inevitably seeps through in audience interpretation.
- Pop culture has shifted away from Black man/white woman pairings post-"Get Out," turning to the Black woman/white man dynamic without providing healthier or more candid narratives.
- Despite onscreen drama, real-world interracial marriages (Black woman/white man) can be stable, contradictory to their fictional portrayals.
- The hosts call for media where interracial couples deal with everyday problems, not catastrophes.
Tone & Style
Conversational, lively, analytical yet humorous. Both hosts freely reference personal reactions (“that scene was propaganda,” “he isn’t giving the love of her life… he’s a lesson” [43:06]), current data, and a wide range of pop culture touchpoints (from "Euphoria" to "Bridgerton" to "Get Out"), always maintaining the insight-driven yet approachable style characteristic of Wesley Morris.
For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In
This episode provides a wide-ranging, deeply thoughtful, and at times fun (via the “End of the Road” game) look at how race, romance, and representation play out in what we watch. It’s essential listening for anyone curious about how pop culture navigates (and fails to navigate) the realities of interracial relationships—especially at the intersection of Blackness and narrative invisibility.
