Is 'One Battle After Another' the Best Movie of the Year?

Summary

Cannonball with Wesley Morris

Episode: Is 'One Battle After Another' the Best Movie of the Year?

Date: October 2, 2025
Host: Wesley Morris
Guest: Sean Fennessey (The Big Picture podcast, The Ringer)

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Episode Overview

Wesley Morris is joined by Sean Fennessey to dissect Paul Thomas Anderson’s new film, One Battle After Another, a sprawling, kinetic, and politically charged movie that thrusts Anderson—and a high-wattage cast led by Leonardo DiCaprio, Teyana Taylor, Sean Penn, and Benicio del Toro—into the middle of America’s contemporary crises. The conversation explores whether Anderson has made not just his best film, but the best film of 2025, digging into PTA’s career, the film’s radical politics, and what it means for American cinema right now.

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1. Paul Thomas Anderson’s Career and Studio Challenges

[00:00 – 05:02]

• Hollywood’s Reluctance:
  Wesley shares an anecdote about PTA’s track record with studios, describing him as a “toxic potato of Hollywood geniuses.”
  • “Nobody doesn't wanna not make one. But making a lot of them because, you know, they cost a lot, but they don't make a lot. Right?” — Wesley [02:28]
• Unprofitable Genius:
  Sean confirms: “Paul Thomas Anderson's movies don't make money. That's just a fact. They mean the world to me, but they don't make any money.” [03:36]
• Comparisons with Contemporaries:
  The hosts compare PTA’s box office woes with peers like Tarantino, Fincher, Soderbergh—underscoring his unique status as a critical darling who lacks hits.

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2. Ranking and Defining PTA’s Best

[05:02 – 09:01]

• Wesley and Sean rank their favorite PTA films:
  • Wesley: The Master, There Will Be Blood, Inherent Vice
  • Sean: There Will Be Blood, The Master, Phantom Thread
• Signature Anderson Traits:
  Both agree on PTA’s knack for unpredictable, singular scenes:
  • “A movie's great opening minutes… you could never have predicted, has no antecedent.” — Wesley [08:18]

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3. Analysis of Iconic Scenes and Anderson's Style

[09:01 – 13:33]

• Boogie Nights – The New Year’s Eve Sequence:
  Sean highlights this scene as encapsulating PTA’s blend of music, violence, character, and story.
  • “He understands something about people, about broken people that I still find so exciting and so rare. And this is like a very. It's a movie about sex and bodies. And there are not a lot of movies about that.” — Sean [13:41]
• PTA’s use of needle drops and music as narrative force
  • “His understanding of both music as performed by musicians and music as given to you by great actors.” — Wesley [12:33]
• On the use of Tom Petty’s “American Girl” in the new film:
  • “It's the most on the nose and yet exhilarating way to conclude this movie. ... It's an ingenious little stroke to conclude the movie.” — Sean [13:16]

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4. Hesitation, Hype, and the DiCaprio Factor

[17:18 – 20:02]

• Wesley’s Pre-Screening Doubts:
  • “I was not looking forward to seeing this movie... I did not love Licorice Pizza…And the poster—there’s a giant Leonardo DiCaprio head. God damn you, movie industry.” — Wesley [17:27]
• Sean on Stakes:
  “He's never made anything like this—a $150 million movie with the biggest star in the world that is an action film.” [19:14]
• Jonesing for a Win:
  Both agree on the nervous energy when a favorite filmmaker swings for the fences:
  • “I just want this to work because it would be so great for everything that I believe in for this movie to work.” — Sean [20:02]

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5. Summary and Breakdown of 'One Battle After Another'

Introduction and First 30 Minutes [20:45 – 24:21]

• Setting:
  2010, Obama era, U.S.–Mexico border: government vs. people, high-stakes, kinetic action.
• Plot Kicks Off:
  • Leftist radicals led by DiCaprio and Teyana Taylor’s characters raid a migrant detention center.
• Sean Penn’s Villain:
  • Colonel Stephen Lockjaw: “His posture alone is locked jaw, for sure.” — Sean [23:16]
• Surprise Lead:
  • “For those first 30 minutes, Leonardo DiCaprio is kind of an afterthought. And the dominant presence is Teyana Taylor, who is like, cut from a diamond... You are completely magnetized by her.” — Wesley [23:52]
• Teyana Taylor's Breakout:
  Sean: “A militant Black woman owning a movie from Warner Brothers in 2025 is—that’s a big deal. That’s not something to be overlooked.” [25:10]

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6. Race, Gender, and Radical Politics

[25:46 – 29:16]

• Reworking 1970s Tropes:
  • Wesley cites 70s blaxploitation influences, explores how Anderson gives his Black female lead real political agency rather than just iconography.
• Complicated Motives:
  • “She’s not the hero of the movie... The portrayal of Teyana Taylor’s character is very interesting because this is not what you might expect from a movie right now, which is that this is a person of pure leftist virtue… She’s much more nuanced than that.” — Sean [28:05]

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7. Densely Layered Characters and Relationships

[29:16 – 32:46]

• Moral Ambiguity and Nuance:
  • “I don't think this movie has any heroes really, at all.” — Wesley [29:16]
  • The tangled relationship between Taylor’s militant and Penn’s villain, with echoes of Pynchon and Altman.

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8. Standout Supporting Performances

[30:57 – 32:46]

• Sean Penn’s Return:
  “Paul has always said that he's always wanted to write a big part for Penn and that this was their chance to finally come together and do something. And it is among his best performances.” — Sean [31:28]
• “It’s a weird movie where the two most powerful people in the movie are not Leonardo DiCaprio in the Leonardo DiCaprio movie, and maybe not even the third. Maybe Benicio del Toro is the third.” — Sean [31:53]

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9. The Film's Structure: Time Jumps, Family, and Migration

[32:25 – 39:43]

• 15-year Jump:
  • DiCaprio’s character, now “Bob,” lives under the radar, raising his daughter, Willa (Chase Infinity), in a sanctuary city.
• Key Plot Device:
  • Willa is kidnapped by the government. Bob must recover his radical skills—with Sensei (Benicio del Toro), a karate teacher quietly sheltering migrants.
• Comic Beats:
  • “This guy...like figuring out what even the code for the Meetup point is. ...I'm a drug and alcohol lover. And I cannot remember for the life of me or the life of my only child the answer to your question, what time is it?” — Wesley [35:51]
• Sensei’s Moment:
  • A moving scene where del Toro’s character makes DiCaprio recognize the humanity of those around him:
    • “You just need to know these people have problems, too.” — Wesley [39:43]
    • “It is human decency, compassion, and personal relationship, as opposed to direct action and violent conflict.” — Sean [40:11]

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10. DiCaprio’s Performance and the Bumbling Hero

[41:19 – 43:26]

• Benicio’s Stillness vs. DiCaprio’s Chaos:
  • “It was very important for Benicio to not be infected by what Leonardo DiCaprio was doing as an actor, which is incredibly nervy and jangly and loose and kind of moving all over the place.” — Sean [41:19]
• DiCaprio’s Anti-Hero:
  • “He has heroic moments in this movie, but he's not the hero. …And the heroic moments, again, are they just—they’re accidents.” — Wesley [42:38]
  • “It’s actually pure Looney Tunes with stakes because …the minute he hits the ground and tries to get up, he is tased and seized.” — Wesley [43:26]
• Star Bait and Switch:
  • “He’s the bait that gets switched. …You come for that giant poster head and you get a movie about Teyana Taylor and Chase Infinity.” — Wesley [43:56]

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11. Secret Societies and Modern Conspiracies

[43:56 – 49:56]

• Shadowy Organizations:
  • “The world is organized, divided and run by secret societies—on one side there are these leftists who have this hotline...on the other side, the Christmas Adventurers—some sort of KKK-in-high-order stand-in.” — Sean [43:56]
• Key Scene:
  • Tony Goldwyn as a villainous society member in a chilling underground initiation sequence, underscored by Johnny Greenwood’s sinister, metronomic score.
    • “There are some strings and there are some other instruments, but a lot of the driving force of the score is percussive.” — Wesley [48:15]

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12. Present-Day Parallels and Artistic Urgency

[49:24 – 52:13]

• Why PTA Finally Made a Contemporary Movie:
  • Sean: “Cell phones. Smartphones. For most filmmakers…are tremendously uncinematic. …You need to be connecting with the camera.” [49:29]
• The Need for Relevance:
  • “It seems very difficult to live [in LA] and see what's happening and not want to try to find a way to have your art respond to it... This movie is such an incrimination of so many other people who make things and claim to care...” — Wesley [50:15]

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13. Comparison to Ari Aster and Hollywood’s Future

[52:13 – 54:56]

• Comparison with Eddington:
  • Sean: “That’s a movie that is…sincerely trying to grapple with a feeling. But what it ultimately does not have that this movie has is that this movie is shot through the prism of a family dynamic. ...This is a melodrama.” [52:18]
• Themes:
  • Movie is about family/found family, damaged relationships, politics on every scale.
  • “The entire emotional relationship to the movie will hinge on how you feel about Perfidia and Pat and then Bob and Willa…” — Sean [52:26]
• Elusive Message:
  • “What is this movie about? That's an unanswerable question. …It's much more relationship focused. But the circumstances of the story are undeniably about contemporary times and maybe even all times, just in terms of how power works...” — Sean [53:41]

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14. Is This Anderson's Best?

[54:56 – 56:24]

• Wesley:
  • “I think this is a person who has just decided…he doesn't need a bag of tricks here...he really wants to say something…without the style getting in the way…a corner got turned for him.” [55:29]
• Sean:
  • “It’s going to be interesting to watch how the world receives it. …There’s interesting potential commercially. It’s a movie that satisfies in a unique way. It’s not as mysterious as some of his best work, and I think that’s for a reason.“ [55:08]

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15. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "A militant Black woman owning a movie from Warner Brothers in 2025 is—that’s a big deal. That’s not something to be overlooked." – Sean Fennessey [25:10]
• "He’s the bait that gets switched. …You come for that giant poster head and you get a movie about Teyana Taylor and Chase Infinity." – Wesley Morris [43:56]
• "What is this movie about? That's an unanswerable question." – Sean Fennessey [53:41]
• "I think this is a person who has just decided that he doesn't need a bag of tricks here…This is a guy who…wants to say something without the style getting in the way." – Wesley Morris [55:29]

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16. Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:28] – How studios pass around PTA projects
• [05:33] – Top three PTA movies debate
• [09:16] – Signature PTA scenes (Boogie Nights)
• [13:15] – The use of music in ‘One Battle After Another’
• [17:29] – Wesley’s apprehension about the film
• [21:32] – Film’s opening: revolution, action, and cast dynamics
• [23:52] – Teyana Taylor’s magnetic screen presence
• [28:05] – Taylor’s character: agency beyond “virtue signaling”
• [31:28] – Sean Penn’s career-capping performance
• [32:46] – Willa’s abduction and DiCaprio’s everyman struggles
• [39:43] – The “don’t get selfish”/humanizing scene with del Toro
• [43:26] – DiCaprio’s pratfalls and anti-hero beats
• [49:29] – Why PTA finally made a film set in the present
• [52:18] – Comparing this to other modern films like Eddington
• [54:56] – Is this Anderson’s crowning achievement?

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17. Final Thoughts

This conversation presents One Battle After Another as a culminating work in Anderson's oeuvre: bold in subject, complex in character, and deeply reflective of the urgency and chaos of the present moment. Both hosts agree it is daring, hard to categorize, and feels uniquely vital in today’s cinematic landscape—a film likely to set the tone for what serious, ambitious American movies can still achieve.

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For those who missed the episode:
This summary captures the critique, context, and enthusiasm for both the film and director, while spotlighting the rich performances and the impact of the film’s sociopolitical themes and style. If you want a deep, lively, and provocative tour through Paul Thomas Anderson’s new film—and what it means for American cinema—this episode is an essential listen.

Transcript

[A]

From Joe Wright, director of Atonement and darkest hour comes Son of the Century, an eight episode series streaming on mubi. Luca Marinelli delivers what critics call a towering performance of puffed up vanity, bringing Mussolini's rise to life with bold storytelling and an unforgettable score by Tom Rollins of the Chemical Brothers. Hailed as gripping and remarkable, this daring vision redefines historical drama. Son of the Century, exclusively on MUBI at mu. I'm Wesley Morris and this is Cannonball. Is it possible that I have seen the best movie of 2020? Paul Thomas Anderson's got a new movie. It's called One Battle After Another. And he is one of my favorite directors. And sometimes, you know, that's actually kind of scary to me. When I love a director and he's got a new movie, I get nervous. It's not gonna work. And on paper, you know, this one, it's not a sure thing either. The premise is that Leonardo DiCaprio is this washed up revolutionary, like a leftist revolutionary. Fifteen years earlier, he was bombing his way around LA and had a baby with another revolutionary who's played by Teyana Taylor. There are two names. Those two, two names never thought I was gonna say in a row next to each other. And now, like, she's trying to eat his face and they get separated. They're both in hiding, but the government, the military, wrecked by a ripped Sean penny, they've never stopped looking for them. This movie, it is very, very good. Is this the best movie of the year? Is it instantly Paul Thomas Anderson's best movie? I'm gonna work this out with my pal Sean Fenisy, who loves himself some pta too. Sean hosts the Big Picture podcast with Amanda Dobbins and is the ringer's head of content. But today, Sean is my PTA co conspirator and co celebrant, and I'm pleased to welcome him to Cannonball. Sean, welcome to Cannonball. Yes, we're here.

[B]

And we're here for Paul Thomas Anderson. We're here for Paul. This is so wonderful. Hi, Wesley.

[A]

Hi. I'm going to start by telling you, I don't know if you and I have ever talked about this. I feel like I've mentioned this to you, but maybe like a dozen years ago, I was talking to. I won't name who I was talking to, but I was talking to a person who works in the movie industry, very, very well placed within it, a filmmaker. And this person was like, I heard a story that every time Paul Thomas Anderson wants to make a movie he goes to some studio, and the studio or the executives talk to each other and they're like, I got another Paul Thomas Anderson script. Is there any way I can trade you for something else? And the other person is like, nah, dude, I just did a pta. It's your turn. Nobody doesn't wanna not make one. But making a lot of them because, you know, they cost a lot, but they don't make a lot. Right?

[B]

Yeah. Look, being a studio executive is a tricky job. I know executives who were responsible for becoming the studio that would make a PTA movie. And they're really nice guys who like movies. And they're usually guys, for the record. But it's a bottom line business, and everyone's afraid to get fired. And taking on a Paul Thomas Anderson movie in the past could get you fired. It doesn't matter how many Oscar nominations you get. It doesn't matter what Wesley Morris's review in the New York Times says about the film. It's, did it make any money? That's how these people are graded on their jobs. And Paul Thomas Anderson's movies don't make money. That's just a fact. They mean the world to me, but they don't make any money.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I think Anderson is very rare in this case where he is kind of a great artist who everyone agrees is among the best, if not the very best from his generation who's never really had a money maker. If you go down the list of his contemporaries, if you look at Quentin Tarantino or David Fincher or Steven Soderbergh, you know, Sofia Coppola's movies sometimes make more money than Paul Thomas Anderson's movies. Like, he just has never had a big, big, big, big winner, and this is one that could change that dynamic. But until now, it's not surprising to hear you recount that story about the way that they were all kind of passing him around like the toxic potato of Hollywood geniuses.

[A]

Yeah, it's sort of like. I mean, this might be an interesting time to sort of think about where this movie sits in the world of Paul Thomas Anderson. And I was thinking about what my three favorite Paul Thomas Anderson movies are. And if I had to rank them, I'd probably start. Well, if I had to rank them, I'd probably start this way. I'd probably go.

[B]

Hit me with it. Come on. Do it.

[A]

Just do it. The Master, There Will Be Blood, Inherent Vice. Those are my. Those are my three.

[B]

Those all came together, right. Those three were released consecutively. So we're close. We match on two out of three right now, I think my number three would be Phantom Thread. My number two would be the master. My number one would be There Will Be Blood. Now, that can change.

[A]

Of course it can. I'm not. Don't put that. Don't etch that in stone for me.

[B]

I look at There Will Be Blood and I'm like, masterpiece, right? Masterwork. Right. And, you know, the perfect actor, the perfect setting, the perfect, you know, a guy who is of California telling the story of California's power in such a discreet way. Like just a genius. Perfect movie. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, like, am I bored of myself for having that opinion? A little bit, A little bit.

[A]

But, but, but listen, you sit down with There Will Be Blood and just those first five minutes that are just pure darkness, and this is somebody birthing something into the light by digging down. You don't even know what you're watching, by the way. Yep. You have no idea what this sound is. You have no idea what the image is going to turn out to be. And you're watching. Oh, my God. Like, we should just watch some of it. Yeah.

[B]

There's the pickaxe and the sparking in the granite tunnel. The Sisyphean act of trying to make one's own future in this terrible country. Come on. The metaphor leaps out at you. I mean, but it's not 30 seconds.

[A]

It's not terrible. I mean, it will not be terrible for him. He is.

[B]

No, it will be great.

[A]

Right? Like. Yeah, this is like the devil climbing up to earth, essentially. Right. This is what we're watching. We're watching the devil birth himself. You know, he's basically digging for, you know, the.

[B]

He's looking for gold. Yeah, he's looking for gold. He's looking for gold. And he stumbles upon the gold of the 20th century. I mean, that's the whole idea, right, Is that it's the transition, the black gold. Yeah. It's a transition from one industrial era of this country to another, and the way in which that power was seized and controlled and in the form of Daniel Plainview, who is evil, but also a person that we really come to understand in a very broken way.

[A]

Right. Just. It's a bold biblical act here. And I think about it all the time when I think about a great. A movie's great opening minutes. But I think the thing that makes it like a very interesting and characteristic Paul Thomas Anderson scene is that you could never have predicted, has no antecedent. You don't know exactly why you're watching it. And you don't know where it's gonna take you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, so do you like. Of your. Like, I mean, from anywhere, is there like a. Is there like a sort of characteristic Paul Thomas Anderson trait characteristic that you can locate in a sequence or a scene in a movie?

[B]

I want to talk about something that's not in my top three. And this is a light bulb moment over my head scene in my lifetime.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Which is the New Year's eve party on December 31, 1979 in Boogie Nights.

[A]

One of the most stressful sequences. It's up there.

[B]

It's up there.

[A]

Okay, Becky.

[B]

It starts, I think, at 11:57pm and Little Bill, who's played by William H. Macy, is wandering through this house looking for his wife, who's played by the adult film star, Nina Hartley. You can hear this Charles Wright song playing called do youo Thing? Which starts out like a traditional kind of 70s funk song. And over time transforms into this very, very erratic, exciting, post Hendrix guitar breakdown. And Little Bill finds his wife and she's doing something he doesn't want her to be doing.

[A]

Poor Little Bill, by the way.

[B]

Yeah. And in the scene, like what you see is you see Anderson doing formal work and character work and story progression all at the same time. Right. You've got the camera moving and following Macy throughout the house. It just takes the landscape. Single take. We don't even see Nina Harley in this scene. We just know what's happened because she's been cheating on him throughout this movie. And he leaves the room and he goes out to his car. He's gonna get something from his car. And this is a movie about the transition from the 1970s to the 1980s, from the slick, glamorous, high toned vision of the world of porn to the grimy, dirty, disease infected videotaped 1980s. And so Anderson's like looking for a way to announce this and he. He figures out a way in this script, in this movie, in this sequence. And when I was 15, I didn't know you could do this in movies. I was like, who the hell is this guy? And what is. Look at what he's capable of. But the thing that I like about this is symmetry. I'm obsessed with music. I've always been obsessed with music. This song is used perfectly in this sequence. We'll see here at the end what happens.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

There'S a cut. We just saw a cut. We hadn't seen a cut. And now listen to the song as it's concluding this kind of guitar freak out. And then he blows his brains out on the last note of the song. And then the next thing that you see in the movie is 1980. We're in the bad time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This has all been leading to something terrible.

[A]

A decade. So terrible that, you know, Lil Bill didn't.

[B]

He wasn't made for those times.

[A]

He wasn't made for him, I would say. Well, okay, so the thing. There's one thing about this scene that obviously immediately stands out as being classic Paul Thomas Anderson. And it's not the single take, it's the soundtrack. It's the use of music. I mean, it's just virtuosic. His understanding of. Of both music as performed by musicians and music as given to you by great actors. Right.

[B]

And I think PTA is very good at blending the obscurantist, unusual needle drop with the hammerhead. This is so obvious. It's perfect. And this movie, this new movie, concludes with Tom Petty's American Girl.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it's the most on the nose and yet exhilarating way to conclude this movie.

[A]

Think about who the American Girl is now. Right.

[B]

And who is it? It's maybe not who Tom was thinking of, but it is who Paul is thinking of.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it's an ingenious little stroke to conclude the movie.

[A]

What else about this scene is interesting to you? I mean. Cause it, like, there's the violence of it.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

There's kind of like. I mean, it's kind of funny until, you know that. Not to laugh anymore.

[B]

That's what it is. I mean. Cause we've already seen little Bill get humiliated and played for laughs. But Macy, who is a very gestural actor who kind of moves his hands and his body. Think of him in Fargo and the way that he's kind of stammering and he's stock still in his performance here, when he goes out to get the gun in the car, he doesn't move, he doesn't react. He doesn't react to the gunshots. He is distraught and he has decided that it's over. And PTA is like, in his mid-20s when he's making this movie. He understands something about people, about broken people that I still find so exciting and so rare. And this is like a very. It's a movie about sex and bodies. And there are not a lot of movies about that.

[A]

No. You mean you're talking about Boogie Nights or you're talking about both? One battle after another? Yes, because both.

[B]

All. All of the movies.

[A]

Yes. I mean, like, the ways in which, like, relationships break down. Okay, wait, hold on. We're gonna take a break. And when we come back, I actually would like to think more about Paul Thomas Anderson. Like, where one battle after another goes in the scheme of him, and maybe even where it goes in the scheme of maybe the last, I don't know, some other phase of American movies, because he is operating at a level that there aren't very many other people even trying to at the moment. We'll be right back. What does beauty have to do with winning a tennis Grand Slam? Or empowering communities? Or tracking jaguars through the wild heart of South America? Hi there. I'm Isabella Rossellini, and I'm back with season two of this is Not a Beauty Podcast where I uncover stories that.

[B]

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[A]

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[A]

Okay, we're back. We are talking about one battle after another, and I'm going to confess something to you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I was not looking forward to seeing this movie.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

Well, I think it's a couple things. One, I might have masterpiece fatigue. He's made at least three, and I'm okay. I did not love licorice pizza. I thought, okay, well, he's now at a point where he's just gonna just be happy to be making movies. But maybe he said everything and he's achieved his ambitions. They've been met already. But setting that aside, I was also kind of miffed by cause the way I Experienced this movie even existing was through the ads. I saw a trailer before one movie, and I saw the poster, and on the poster there's a giant Leonardo DiCaprio head. And I just thought, you know what? God damn you, movie industry. You're putting all your hopes or a lot of your hopes, you know, on this movie to make some money, because that's where we are now. An industry that didn't care about Paul Thomas Anderson as an industrial concern is now turning him into one and teaming him with this very still bankable movie star. And I just was like, I don't know what kind of compromises had to be made to pull this off. And then I went, and I was wrong. It's a great movie.

[B]

It's an exceptional movie.

[A]

Like, what were you. Like, how were you feeling before you got to the movie theater?

[B]

Always trepidatious whenever someone that you love is taking a big risk, you know, okay. And he's a filmmaker I just have a very big emotional relationship with.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And every movie is an event for me when he makes one. But he's never made anything like this before. He's never made $150 million movie with the biggest star in the world that is an action film. And forget about all of the real world reflections and consequences that are depicted. I wasn't even sure how much of that would make its way into this movie.

[A]

Yeah, I didn't know that either.

[B]

So once you know that too, sure. It's a little bit tremor making if you're a big fan of someone like this. And yet he's never really disappointed me. You know, we can talk about which ones we like the most and which ones we think are the least successful. But Paul Thomas Anderson doesn't have any bad movies. So I wasn't like, actually nervous. I just want this to work because it would be so great for everything that I believe in for this movie to work.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And here we are. And it worked.

[A]

So, I mean, when you're talking about, like, what you believe in, what does that. What does that entail?

[B]

I think that filmmaking and movies are an art form and also the most interesting mass cultural enterprise that America's ever created. And so, like, you take the person who's the best at making movies and you take the person who is the best at selling movies with his face, and you smash them together. And then it just so happens that they've made something that is exactly about the modern condition and the world that we live in. And it's like a. It's a magical Stew, it's an unusual. It's an unlikely thing to happen, and it happens very rarely in this thing that you and I have been thinking about and talking about and writing about for so many years.

[A]

Well, we should talk about what actually is happening in this movie. I think that the first half hour of this thing, in classic Paul Thomas Anderson form, he blasts out of the gate, what are you gonna do about this, baby? Just when you think you got a handle on things, this might be the best starting bell of all 10 movies. This is his 10th film. We should say he's 55 years old. I would say he's probably at his directorial peak in some way.

[B]

He knows the most. He's gonna know.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I think. But this one, it just comes out of the gate real hot. You know, it's like 2010, like the. Like during the Obama years, basically, it feels like. Which is an interesting thing to think about. But we're in the American West. We are, you know, somewhere at some point at the US Mexico border. And, like, there's a lot of energy around, you know, this migrant detention center, and the government is at war with the people, or, you know, this set of people is at war with the government. And, you know, there's a. They commit this raid on this migrant detention center, assume, presumably to try to liberate them, the people in the. In the detention center. And, you know, it's just quite clear that these leftist terrorists, they are not fucking around for bringing justice to the vigilante group known as the French 75. You know, in that first 30 minutes, you're getting all these characters. You're getting the members of this terrorist organization. You're learning the people in the government outfit that we need to pay attention to, primarily played by Sean Penn. Whose character's name is it? Lieutenant General Captain Stephen Lockjaw?

[B]

I think it's Colonel.

[A]

Colonel. I named them all but the right one. Colonel Stephen Lockjaw. What a great name. And Sean Penn does not need method acting to know what to do with a character named Stephen Lockjaw.

[B]

His posture alone is locked jaw, for sure.

[A]

And I don't know, I just found the energy of this thing exciting. I also like that for those first 30 minutes, Leonardo DiCaprio is kind of an afterthought. And the dominant presence is Teyana Taylor, who is like, cut from a diamond and is just such a strong, physical, dynamic, charismatic presence. You are completely magnetized by her. I want you to create a show. This is an announcement on revolution. The message is clear. I was jealous of anybody who had never seen her before. Cause they would go to this movie and will be experiencing her for the first time. Those cheekbones, those lips. Did you, like you're watching this happen and you're seeing her take over this movie or like, I don't even. Not even take it over. It's her movie for 30 minutes.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, the thing that struck me the first time that I saw it was not just the attention that is focused on her character and how she is very much the engine of the movie for the first 45 minutes or so. But there's a moment shortly after they pull off this kind of raid liberation on that migrant detention center that you were referring to. And they get in the car together, and she begins to embrace DiCaprio. Ghetto Pat or ghetto pat. And the way that she kisses him.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Open mouthed, tongue out. It's like she's treating him like a scoop of ice cream. I mean, and it's so physical. And to encourage her to do that, or if that was her choice, to see her with that kind of physical power, both holding a gun and also holding.

[A]

Eating Leonardo DiCaprio's face.

[B]

Yes, yes. That's an announcement of what kind of a movie this is. And I found it thrilling. I mean, Teyana Taylor is somebody like. I used to write about music. I've followed her career as an R and B artist over the years. I think I assigned a profile of her in Vibe magazine in, like, 2008. She's been around for a long time. She's wonderful. In 1001 AV Rockwell's movie from a couple of years ago. She's a good actor, but this is easily the most high profile thing that she's done. And you're right, she owns this movie for a stretch. And a militant black woman owning a movie from Warner Brothers in 2025 is. That's. That's a big deal. That's not. That's not something to be overlooked.

[A]

Uh, no. And I also think that there's like a correspondent historical dimension to this too. Right? I mean, this is a person, Paul Thomas Anderson, who knows the history of the movies. His favorite aesthetically, his favorite decade to draw from is the 1970s, a period during which that includes the blaxploitation era. And he would have seen the great movies that would feature people like Pam Grier and Tamara Dobson and perhaps wonder, as I have many a time, where's the Beef? Like, you've got these great women in these movies, and all they're doing is being Mannequins and, you know, the rarity and the scarcity of roles for. For black women during that period is kind of what makes someone like Pam Grier, Tamara Dobson, and, like, it makes them iconic. But then you watch the movies and it's really like. Like Pam Grier, like, throwing women over tables. And, you know, she's got a few lines. But the question that this movie kind of answers in some way is what would it look like for the radical politics of an era like that to find a narrative engine, Right. And to have those women who were in clear control of the plots of those movies actually have politics to match them while also not, you know, skimping on the sexuality that, you know, at least this character is committed to and the movie commits to it, and. And the ways in which white men in particular respond to her. What I'm doing here is I'm creating a closed circuit. Very important to keep your cap shunted like this so you don't accidentally detonate your charge. Don't stop. Because what this is is a love triangle in the most generic possible description of this, between DiCaprio and Sean Penn's character, who discovers her planning a bomb and is like, but, you know, I'll let you go, ma', am, if you, you know, you service me a little bit. And she's like, hmm, let me think about that.

[B]

The movie is clearly very heavily inspired by Thomas Pynchon's Vineland, which is a novel set during the 1980s. Very much about the sort of aftermath of 1960s radicals and how they kind of either reintegrate or have struggled to reintegrate into society during the Ranking era.

[A]

During the Rankin era. Right.

[B]

The movie, though, the portrayal of Teyana Taylor's character is very interesting because this is not what you might expect from a movie right now, which is that this is a person of pure leftist virtue. Right. And that it's like it's politics all the way down and her beliefs driving action. She's much more nuanced than that. And the movie is tangling with this idea of, is she actually attracted to Stephen Lockjaw? Is she actually more about saving herself than the movement or her family? Like, there's no one answering you. Yeah, there's not. There's no one answer. It's forcing you to think about it. Right? Which is very unusual right now. We would think if you would put someone as strong and as powerful seeming as Teyana Taylor in a movie, in a role where she's the change agent, that she should be the hero, and she's not the hero of the movie.

[A]

I don't think this movie has any heroes really, at all. I think the point at which the movie pivots is her relationship with this colonel. Right. This highly improbable. Only this is how, you know, the source material is Thomas Pynchon, because only in the world of the man who wrote Gravity's Rainbow and, you know, the crying of Lot 49, could you get something like, you know, in the world of Anderson's movie, a black radical leftist who was also not above having a good time strategically, I might say, with, you know, the primary head figure that's going to represent the military throughout this movie, played by Sean Penn, who is in full Popeye mode here. Like, he is like a walking Charley horse who, you know, because. Because Paul Thomas Anderson really has a Robert Altman. You know, one of his. One of his icons here and a person he has channeled throughout his work is. Is Robert Altman, who's, you know, one of his most notorious outings as a filmmaker is this musical, this live musical version of Popeye A. Well, from which he has taken many a drink throughout, you know, his career. And I just feel like this version of Sean Penn in this film who is just all muscle and has, you know, something like the Popeye haircut when the hat is off, it's just. It's like not a joke. Men, let's do what we do. I'll be seeing you very soon.

[B]

I think it's easy to forget in the last 10 years or so what Sean Penn meant to movie acting culture and that he occupied a very rare status that included people like Marlon Brando and Daniel Day Lewis, these sort of commanders of screen. And because of maybe some of the choices that he's made as an actor or whatever details we learned about his personal life, we forgot a little bit.

[A]

Well, he let us forget because the roles weren't there anymore.

[B]

But Paul has always said that he's always wanted to write a big part for Penn and that this was their chance to finally come together and do something. And it is among his best performances. And this is a guy who has two Academy Awards and he is. It's a weird movie where the two most powerful people in the movie are not Leonardo DiCaprio in the Leonardo DiCaprio movie, and maybe not even the third. Maybe Benicio del Toro is the third.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, you know, this is a really like a spring loaded explosion of heavyweight performances that are going in the movie. And Penn also, because of his, like, his own personal radical politics that also have gotten kind of increasingly blurry in the last 10 years. It's like, is he like a lockjaw type now or is he somewhere all the way on the other side? Like the movie is kind of like poking you with all these provocations. Based on what we know about these people in real life too, which is something kind of magical that you can do in casting, it's probably useful to.

[A]

Just talk about like what happens in the middle of this movie with respect to just what the tide of the plot is doing. And, you know, we wind up 15 years later. We haven't even said what Teyana Taylor's character's name is, by the way.

[B]

Say it.

[A]

It's. What is it? Perfidia. Perfidia. Beverly Hills. I mean, that is, if she's not taking Patty Hearst away from daddy, I don't know who is. And you know, she's off somewhere else. And Leonardo DiCaprio is no longer the explosives expert. He looks like he's been blown up. He's just sitting around, not really doing anything, raising this 15 year old daughter of his who is now played by Chase Infinity. And I mean, we're increasingly aware of the stakes of the entire situation, which is that the government has not stopped looking for this DiCaprio character, whose name now is Bob, who's living a regular schmegular life in what we come to learn is a sanctuary city. You know, his daughter Willa is now taking, you know, she's a student, she's a high school student, and all the stuff that comes with that turns out to be pretty funny. And she's taken these karate lessons. You know, at some point the government figures out where they are, comes to try to find them, takes Willa. Bob now has to spring into action to try to get her back, and winds up the only person he can think to turn to is Willa's karate instructor who is played by Benicio Del Toro. And he's the Sentei. But he's also, as it turns out, running this underground migrant protection service where he's essentially guiding these migrants or housing these migrants, sheltering them. And for a while the two of them are kind of on this adventure to get him closer to the daughter. And what this means for DiCaprio is he's gotta remember all of his old leftist radical tendencies that he hasn't had any contact with in 15 years. And it's such beautiful comedy. This guy, like this stoned, couch bound, berobed guy, like figuring out like what even the code for the Meetup point is. Which is a recurring motif in the film. He's calling this number. Rise and shine. Hi. What's up? What's up, homie? It's me again, Bob Ferguson. And the person on the other end of this activist. You know, this leftist hotline. It's like, sir, what's the code? I was trying to get the rendezvous point for my daughter. Right. Willa, if you can't answer, what time is it? I cannot give you the rendezvous point. This is a key tenet of the rebellion. I'm surprised you can't name it. I don't know if you are who you say you are, okay? And he's like, I don't know the code. Look, maybe I can just let me in, man. I tell you, I can tell you everything else.

[B]

And it's like, I've killed my brain for 15 years with alcohol and drugs.

[A]

I'm a drug and alcohol lover. And I cannot remember for the life of me or the life of my only child the answer to your question, what time is it? And in the comedy and the scheme of this movie, like the hold music is the revolution will not be televised. You will not be able to plug.

[B]

In, turn on, and cop out. You will not be able to lose yourself on skag and skip out for.

[A]

Beer during commercials because the revolution will not be televised. It is just. It's not afraid to laugh at the things that can be funny and knows enough and trusts us enough to know what is truly terrifying about our current circumstances. But there's something about the bumbling nature of the DiCaprio character as he's moving through all these grave circumstances and not quite having it. Not quite register. Like the gravity of it is not occurring to him. And he is frequently told to like or forced to observe what the stakes actually are beyond him and his family. And there's a scene, like, my favorite scene in the movie, where DiCaprio turns to del Toro to help him get on the path of figuring out what happened to his daughter. I need you, brother. Sensei. Sensei. Sensei, please. Courage, Bob. Courage. That's it. Courage. Yeah. Yes. Thank you. Hey. Thank you, Sensei. Thank you, Sensei. Thank you. God damn it. Viva la revolution. It's the moment. It's one of the moments. The movie is at its, like, most tense, and Del Toro knows that this siege is happening on the town that he. Where he's keeping these. These people who've crossed the border into the US and he's been hiding them in his apartment for, you know, who knows? How long? But they're a part of this community that he has built in this building. And once you get there, there's a moment where he. DiCaprio's freaking out. I need a weapon, man. All you got is goddamn nunchucks. Here. You know where I can get a gun?

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Cool out. Ocean waves. Ocean waves.

[B]

Let's go.

[A]

He's just like, you know, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I'm. I mean, he's loud, he's screaming. And Del Toro turns to him. He doesn't even turn to him. He just says to him, at some point, hey, don't be selfish. Or is that the line? Hold on, let me get it right. He says, don't get selfish to Leonardo DiCaprio. And he's taking him up through the apartment. Cause he's gonna stash him for a minute. He's gonna give him a place to stay while they figure out what to do. And DiCaprio's like, we gotta go. Get to where you're gonna stash me. And Del Toro is like, wait a minute here. This is. This is. This. You know, you're passing all of these people who live in this apartment, and Del Toro and the camera stop at each one of these people, and he names them and introduces us to them. And they just kind of look up. They're just, like, doing whatever they were doing in the apartment. You know, eating, playing a game, I don't know, talking. And I can't tell you how moving and beautiful a moment that is in the middle of this extremely stressful situation that this movie has remembered what normally would happen here, which is. This is a literal pass through on the way to something more important. But for this, these 90 seconds, this is the most important thing, White man. You're gonna know the names of each one of these people, and then we're gonna solve your problem. But you just need to know these people have problems, too.

[B]

It's the flip side of the radical politics that we see in the first 45 minutes. It's the same sense of curing injustice, but doing it in a completely different way than it is. Like, it is human decency, compassion, and personal relationship, as opposed to direct action and violent conflict. And the movie's not saying this one's better than the other, but it's saying this is two sides, and they're interwoven.

[A]

Interwoven. That's the real.

[B]

And sensei is trying to make Bob remember what's at the core of what the movement is supposed to represent. Just by being himself and just by being in his community at this incredibly stressful moment. Now, I will say, the first time I saw the movie, that scene you're describing, I was like, get on with it. I need this guy to plug his phone in so he can call someone, so he can get his daughter. And so the movie, it never lets go of the urgency that Bob has during that scene, even though it is showing us Sensei's incredible patience and decency and desire to situate Bob inside of the community that, like, he's obviously a leader of. This is, again, like, very nuanced stuff in the middle of a chase action movie, right?

[A]

But it's like, okay, you want to talk about family separation? I'll show you some family separation, motherfucker. Just look down this hallway. These people are facing the same shit that I'm about to help you deal with. To me, you were just another migrant.

[B]

That's totally true.

[A]

So you calm down. I love.

[B]

Yeah. Living under a false name. Exactly.

[A]

I'm helping you, but just chill.

[B]

So the first time I saw the movie, I saw it at the dga, and Steven Spielberg interviewed Paul Thomas Anderson after the movie, and they talked about this aspect of the movie a little bit. And what Steven Spielberg asked about was kind of Benicio's energy. And PTA said that it was very important for Benicio to not be infected by what Leonardo DiCaprio was doing as an actor, which is incredibly nervy and jangly and loose and kind of moving all over the place. And Benicio said, stop me only if you feel me absorbing what he's doing. Because I want to be still, I want to be calm. And I do want to talk to you about Leo because you are the master of understanding actor and actress career arcs. But he's in this mold right now. This wave of performances once upon a time in Hollywood. Don't look up, certainly this film where the kind of nervous comedic drama, Killers of the Flower Moon and Killers of the Flower Moon as well, you know, like, all of these guys are all funny, but also sort of pathetic and tragic. And this being how he is turning 50 is so interesting that this is the kind of character that he is drawn to at this stage of his life. He has heroic moments in this movie, but he's not the hero.

[A]

He's not the hero. And the heroic moments, again, are they just. They're accidents, right? Like, there's a sequence where he's running across the roof, like, running across this rooftop with these cool skateboard kids, right? And they're like three, you know, like. Like a mile ahead of him. And he's just trying to keep up in his bathrobe and his ponytail and his unwatch. Unwashed ponytail and the sunglasses. And sure enough, these kids keep running and DiCaprio is like running. And all of a sudden he realizes he's out of roof and he just falls through a tree. He just falls through a tree.

[B]

It's such a great. The laugh got choked in my throat when it happens, you know, you're so concerned for him, but it's so funny. It's pure Looney Tunes.

[A]

It's actually pure Looney Tunes with stakes because it's a little bit like you're still laughing. And the minute he hits the ground and tries to get up, he is tased and seized. And I don't know, I think that there's something about the way Paul Thomas Anderson is using DiCaprio as a movie star. Right. He's the bait that gets switched. Right. You come for that giant poster head and you get a movie about Teyana Taylor and Chase Infinity.

[B]

And that carries through the movie. But what the movie reveals is that certainly what Thomas Pynchon thinks, and I think what we sometimes think and may actually be true, is that the world is organized, divided and run by secret societies. And on one side there are these leftists who have this hotline and have this code of ethics and have this interconnected network that exists across at least 15 years that we see. And on the other side we have these figures, the Christmas Adventurers, who get the problem of the movie into action, which is they invite Lockjaw to be a part of their society. And that triggers Lockjaw, remembering the potentiality of a problem that he needs to solve in the form of Willa and Bob Ferguson. And that's why the government comes.

[A]

Who are DiCaprio and his daughter, played by Chase Infinity.

[B]

Exactly. And these are all secretive environments where big action, meaningful life stakes, action is happening. And most people don't would never know that it exists. In the case of the Christmas Adventures, it's the most skull and crossbones thing you could possibly imagine. And the whole movie is organized around the fact that this is all happening under our noses, which is just such a clever idea that is so modern.

[A]

I would like to sit with this Christmas Adventurers situation for one second.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You know, it is definitely a like Knights of the Brotherhood of Hanging Black People and Killing Killing Latinos, denouncing the American Indian experience and you know, who knows what else. But the. Thank you for reminding me of this whole other plot strand and connecting it to the thing we've been talking about, which is that Sean Penn's character, really, really, really, his ultimate mega dream is. Is to become a Christmas adventurer, aka, you know, a KKK member, but of a high order. Very. No, these people don't wear sheets, they wear their own faces. But they meet in. You know, one of the leitmotifs of this movie is tunnels. Right? Tunnels and caverns and backrooms. And one of the great sequences in this film is the first time that the Sean Penn character meets the Christmas adventurers. And the background for this encounter, it features Tony Goldwyn, which, you know, I did not know Paul Thomas Anderson watched a lot of television, although it stands to reason he is married to one of our great television personalities in Maya Rudolph. Personalities like artists. But he has definitely seen some scandal and knows the power of having Tony Goldwyn represent anything official. And the idea that this guy is also one of these people.

[B]

Yeah, he's a comic figure playing a deeply malevolent secret society member. This is the kind of mischievous stuff that Paul Thomas Anderson does that other filmmakers do not do. You know, Tony Goldwyn, you might say, oh, this is the guy from Scandal, or this is also the guy from Ghost. You know, this is one of the key movie villains of the last 40 years.

[A]

One of the great movie villains. Yes. Yes. Well, I mean, key. Key is maybe the better way to put it. I think that, like, just to stick with this scene for a second, you are like experiencing. At least I'm experiencing this kind of dread. And mostly because you're. You're getting all this silence. And the musical accompaniment is mostly just percussive piano work. And it's Johnny Greenwood. Johnny Greenwood from Radiohead, who's done several of Paul Thomas Anderson's other excellent scores. That's what you're getting here underneath this sinister Christmas adventurer vibes. Right. I think it's just this tapping, almost clock like metronomic sound that occurs from most of the movie's runtime. There are some strings and there are some other instruments, but a lot of the driving force of the score is percussive.

[B]

Yeah, you get a little bit of the David Shire, Michael Small,'70s kind of piano. These, like isolated piano notes that are meant to just kind of drive, like a sense of conspiracy around us.

[A]

Anyway, I just. I love that sequence in part because it is. It is. It is terrifying for its intimacy, but also for. I also love it because it. He finds. Paul Thomas Anderson finds these ways to inflict Comedy on it. Anyway, I was just thinking about like, this is the first movie he's made that's set in the present in 22 years, 23 years. Punch drunk Love is the last time he worked in a contemporary period. And I think a lot about what it means when directors, especially white directors, like, hang out in the past and what it is they're looking for, what it is they're hiding from.

[B]

I know what it is in part for Paul Thomas Anderson.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Cell phones, smartphones. Smartphones. For most filmmakers, let's set aside maybe Park Chan Wook are tremendously uncinematic. And the experience of being alive right now is being attached to a device and often not making eye contact with those you are with because you are looking at the device. And filmmaking is a head up medium. You need to be connecting with the camera.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And if you watch this movie even though you know it's in 2025, these are ancient phones that people are using. They are talking on the phone a lot. They are not looking at their phone a lot.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

And I find that to be very, very notable in terms of PTA deciding to finally make a contemporary set movie.

[A]

Yes. But the reason I'm bringing this up in terms of thinking about what this movie's about and what it's trying to do is that I feel like this is a person either because of his household or because, you know, he lives. He has lived in that city of Los Angeles his entire life. And you live in Los Angeles. It seems impossible to me that if you're an artist and you make things and you live in Los Angeles, it seems very difficult to live there and see what's happening and not want to try to find a way to have your art respond to it. Even if you fail, even if you wind up making a perfectly on the nose, obvious, McObvious movie, you've @ least said something and put on the record what is happening in this country. And specifically if you live in Los Angeles, in Los Angeles. And this to me feels like a guy who couldn't take it anymore. This movie is such an incrimination of so many other people who make things and claim to care about, you know, people, humanity, this country, whatever. Because, you know, when people do it, they do it as an allegory. They do it. You know, this is a movie about this country and nobody's wearing a cape. Right. There are no heroes. The right thing is seldom done in it. And the wrong things are catastrophically, cataclysmically wrong. They are wronger than any Single individual action. This is a system crushing people. And I just feel like this is probably the only one of these we're gonna get this year at this level. And I think it is a real dare to his peers, and I mean, like his immediate cohort of filmmakers, to do something and say something.

[B]

I do. I have paired this movie in my mind with Eddington quite a bit.

[A]

Yeah. Ari Asters, Eddington, yes. Another contemporary thriller set during the pandemic. It does not work.

[B]

I really, like. Didn't work for audiences, obviously, because no one went to go see it. But I think that that's a movie that is, I think, sincerely trying to grapple with a feeling. But what it ultimately does not have that this movie has is that this movie is shot through the prism of a family dynamic. There are parents who have concern for their kids in Eddington, but this movie, the entire emotional relationship to the movie will hinge on how you feel about Perfidia and Pat and then Bob and Willa and in some ways, Lockjaw and Willa as well. And that is what Hollywood is best at. It is confronting you with the realities of our world artistically through drama. And this is a melodrama. This is a story that you get caught up in. You want to know what happens. But if you stop for one minute to think about what he's trying to say. I don't think what he's trying to say is clear cut. No, I don't think it's not message.

[A]

This. It's not a. What is this movie about? That's an unanswerable question. Right.

[B]

It's a little bit thornier than that, and it is much more relationship focused. But the circumstances of the story are undeniably about contemporary times and maybe even all times, just in terms of how power works, how people get the things that they want, what happens as you get older and your relationship to the world changes. I find all of these things incredibly resonant for me. And the other thing that I really like about the movie, as a longtime fan of his, is I feel like he has three phases as a filmmaker. One is this whirling dervish shot out of a canon. Kid who's watched every Scorsese movie and is like, I know I got all the moves and I'm putting all the moves on screen. I'm 26, and I'm putting all the moves on screen. Second phase is retreat, retrenchment, Trying to figure out what's really inside him and what he really wants to say. It starts with punch Drunk Love after the quote unquote failure of Magnolia. And then the Master and There Will Be Blood twinned together as like explorations of the male psyche. And then the third phase is about intimacy. Phantom Thread, Licorice Pizza, Inherent Vice. These are movies about damaged relationships and damaged people. And this movie is about three things.

[A]

In all kinds of ways. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Interpersonally, nationally, politically, spiritually. You know, does this new movie.

[B]

Is it as you asked, is it his crowning achievement? I think it's gonna be interesting to watch how the world receives it. There's obviously a narrative that this is gonna be the it's time moment for him with the Academy. There's interesting potential commercially. It's a movie that satisfies in a unique way. It's not as mysterious as some of.

[A]

His best work, and I think that's for a reason. In some way. I think that, like, I think this is a person who has just decided that he's. He doesn't need a bag of tricks here. Like, he doesn't need the surrealism. He doesn't need the magic realism. He doesn't need the mystique. I think this is. This is a guy who. I mean, he really wants to say something where without the style getting in the way, he wants to use the style to deepen the movie in a. In a. From the standpoint of its. Its like the humanity that it's earned in terms of how it's forging some relationship between us and these characters and the stakes for them. And that, to me, feels like a corner got turned for him.

[B]

I think you're right.

[A]

Okay, this is it. We're done. Okay. Sean Wesley, thanks for coming in, doing this. I'm glad.

[B]

Congrats on being you.

[A]

What's that mean?

[B]

It means you're the best.

[A]

Thank you. Congrats on being you too. Thanks for doing this. I appreciate it. Hi, this is Ashley.

[B]

I live in San Francisco with my boyfriend.

[A]

We would love to officially share my New York Times subscription with separate logins. We both love cooking, love being in the kitchen, but I'm a 30 minute and under efficient dinner, girly. I want a sheet pan meal. He is very elaborate. He wants to be. Get into the storytelling. I want to be able to save my easy meals and check off the ones that I've completed. And I think him having his own profile would be great.

[B]

Ashley, we heard you introducing the New.

[A]

York Times family subscription. You get your own login and Mr. Elaborate gets his. Plus room for two others.

[B]

Find out more at nytimes.com family.

[A]

This episode of Cannonball was produced by John White, Elissa Dudley, Janelle Anderson and Austin Mitchell. We always get priceless production assistance from Kate lepresti, Lisa Tobin, she's our editor. This episode was engineered by Daniel Ramirez. It was recorded by Matty Masiello, Pal Grandillo and Nick Pittman. Dan Powell and Diane Wong did the original music and our theme music, as all always, is by Justin Ellington. Our video team is Brooke Minters and Felice Leon. This episode was filmed as many of them are by Alfredo Chiarapa. It was edited by Amy Marino and Jamie Heffitz. We're on YouTube, y'. All. Watch and subscribe. And Bobby Doherty, he took that album art photo of me. Thanks for listening everybody. We'll be back next week with Butch Sundance and Bill. It sa.