Cannonball with Wesley Morris

Episode: Is 'One Battle After Another' the Best Movie of the Year?

Date: October 2, 2025
Host: Wesley Morris
Guest: Sean Fennessey (The Big Picture podcast, The Ringer)

Episode Overview

Wesley Morris is joined by Sean Fennessey to dissect Paul Thomas Anderson’s new film, One Battle After Another, a sprawling, kinetic, and politically charged movie that thrusts Anderson—and a high-wattage cast led by Leonardo DiCaprio, Teyana Taylor, Sean Penn, and Benicio del Toro—into the middle of America’s contemporary crises. The conversation explores whether Anderson has made not just his best film, but the best film of 2025, digging into PTA’s career, the film’s radical politics, and what it means for American cinema right now.

1. Paul Thomas Anderson’s Career and Studio Challenges

[00:00 – 05:02]

• Hollywood’s Reluctance:
  Wesley shares an anecdote about PTA’s track record with studios, describing him as a “toxic potato of Hollywood geniuses.”
  • “Nobody doesn't wanna not make one. But making a lot of them because, you know, they cost a lot, but they don't make a lot. Right?” — Wesley [02:28]
• Unprofitable Genius:
  Sean confirms: “Paul Thomas Anderson's movies don't make money. That's just a fact. They mean the world to me, but they don't make any money.” [03:36]
• Comparisons with Contemporaries:
  The hosts compare PTA’s box office woes with peers like Tarantino, Fincher, Soderbergh—underscoring his unique status as a critical darling who lacks hits.

2. Ranking and Defining PTA’s Best

[05:02 – 09:01]

• Wesley and Sean rank their favorite PTA films:
  • Wesley: The Master, There Will Be Blood, Inherent Vice
  • Sean: There Will Be Blood, The Master, Phantom Thread
• Signature Anderson Traits:
  Both agree on PTA’s knack for unpredictable, singular scenes:
  • “A movie's great opening minutes… you could never have predicted, has no antecedent.” — Wesley [08:18]

3. Analysis of Iconic Scenes and Anderson's Style

[09:01 – 13:33]

• Boogie Nights – The New Year’s Eve Sequence:
  Sean highlights this scene as encapsulating PTA’s blend of music, violence, character, and story.
  • “He understands something about people, about broken people that I still find so exciting and so rare. And this is like a very. It's a movie about sex and bodies. And there are not a lot of movies about that.” — Sean [13:41]
• PTA’s use of needle drops and music as narrative force
  • “His understanding of both music as performed by musicians and music as given to you by great actors.” — Wesley [12:33]
• On the use of Tom Petty’s “American Girl” in the new film:
  • “It's the most on the nose and yet exhilarating way to conclude this movie. ... It's an ingenious little stroke to conclude the movie.” — Sean [13:16]

4. Hesitation, Hype, and the DiCaprio Factor

[17:18 – 20:02]

• Wesley’s Pre-Screening Doubts:
  • “I was not looking forward to seeing this movie... I did not love Licorice Pizza…And the poster—there’s a giant Leonardo DiCaprio head. God damn you, movie industry.” — Wesley [17:27]
• Sean on Stakes:
  “He's never made anything like this—a $150 million movie with the biggest star in the world that is an action film.” [19:14]
• Jonesing for a Win:
  Both agree on the nervous energy when a favorite filmmaker swings for the fences:
  • “I just want this to work because it would be so great for everything that I believe in for this movie to work.” — Sean [20:02]

5. Summary and Breakdown of 'One Battle After Another'

Introduction and First 30 Minutes [20:45 – 24:21]

• Setting:
  2010, Obama era, U.S.–Mexico border: government vs. people, high-stakes, kinetic action.
• Plot Kicks Off:
  • Leftist radicals led by DiCaprio and Teyana Taylor’s characters raid a migrant detention center.
• Sean Penn’s Villain:
  • Colonel Stephen Lockjaw: “His posture alone is locked jaw, for sure.” — Sean [23:16]
• Surprise Lead:
  • “For those first 30 minutes, Leonardo DiCaprio is kind of an afterthought. And the dominant presence is Teyana Taylor, who is like, cut from a diamond... You are completely magnetized by her.” — Wesley [23:52]
• Teyana Taylor's Breakout:
  Sean: “A militant Black woman owning a movie from Warner Brothers in 2025 is—that’s a big deal. That’s not something to be overlooked.” [25:10]

6. Race, Gender, and Radical Politics

[25:46 – 29:16]

• Reworking 1970s Tropes:
  • Wesley cites 70s blaxploitation influences, explores how Anderson gives his Black female lead real political agency rather than just iconography.
• Complicated Motives:
  • “She’s not the hero of the movie... The portrayal of Teyana Taylor’s character is very interesting because this is not what you might expect from a movie right now, which is that this is a person of pure leftist virtue… She’s much more nuanced than that.” — Sean [28:05]

7. Densely Layered Characters and Relationships

[29:16 – 32:46]

• Moral Ambiguity and Nuance:
  • “I don't think this movie has any heroes really, at all.” — Wesley [29:16]
  • The tangled relationship between Taylor’s militant and Penn’s villain, with echoes of Pynchon and Altman.

8. Standout Supporting Performances

[30:57 – 32:46]

• Sean Penn’s Return:
  “Paul has always said that he's always wanted to write a big part for Penn and that this was their chance to finally come together and do something. And it is among his best performances.” — Sean [31:28]
• “It’s a weird movie where the two most powerful people in the movie are not Leonardo DiCaprio in the Leonardo DiCaprio movie, and maybe not even the third. Maybe Benicio del Toro is the third.” — Sean [31:53]

9. The Film's Structure: Time Jumps, Family, and Migration

[32:25 – 39:43]

• 15-year Jump:
  • DiCaprio’s character, now “Bob,” lives under the radar, raising his daughter, Willa (Chase Infinity), in a sanctuary city.
• Key Plot Device:
  • Willa is kidnapped by the government. Bob must recover his radical skills—with Sensei (Benicio del Toro), a karate teacher quietly sheltering migrants.
• Comic Beats:
  • “This guy...like figuring out what even the code for the Meetup point is. ...I'm a drug and alcohol lover. And I cannot remember for the life of me or the life of my only child the answer to your question, what time is it?” — Wesley [35:51]
• Sensei’s Moment:
  • A moving scene where del Toro’s character makes DiCaprio recognize the humanity of those around him:
    • “You just need to know these people have problems, too.” — Wesley [39:43]
    • “It is human decency, compassion, and personal relationship, as opposed to direct action and violent conflict.” — Sean [40:11]

10. DiCaprio’s Performance and the Bumbling Hero

[41:19 – 43:26]

• Benicio’s Stillness vs. DiCaprio’s Chaos:
  • “It was very important for Benicio to not be infected by what Leonardo DiCaprio was doing as an actor, which is incredibly nervy and jangly and loose and kind of moving all over the place.” — Sean [41:19]
• DiCaprio’s Anti-Hero:
  • “He has heroic moments in this movie, but he's not the hero. …And the heroic moments, again, are they just—they’re accidents.” — Wesley [42:38]
  • “It’s actually pure Looney Tunes with stakes because …the minute he hits the ground and tries to get up, he is tased and seized.” — Wesley [43:26]
• Star Bait and Switch:
  • “He’s the bait that gets switched. …You come for that giant poster head and you get a movie about Teyana Taylor and Chase Infinity.” — Wesley [43:56]

11. Secret Societies and Modern Conspiracies

[43:56 – 49:56]

• Shadowy Organizations:
  • “The world is organized, divided and run by secret societies—on one side there are these leftists who have this hotline...on the other side, the Christmas Adventurers—some sort of KKK-in-high-order stand-in.” — Sean [43:56]
• Key Scene:
  • Tony Goldwyn as a villainous society member in a chilling underground initiation sequence, underscored by Johnny Greenwood’s sinister, metronomic score.
    • “There are some strings and there are some other instruments, but a lot of the driving force of the score is percussive.” — Wesley [48:15]

12. Present-Day Parallels and Artistic Urgency

[49:24 – 52:13]

• Why PTA Finally Made a Contemporary Movie:
  • Sean: “Cell phones. Smartphones. For most filmmakers…are tremendously uncinematic. …You need to be connecting with the camera.” [49:29]
• The Need for Relevance:
  • “It seems very difficult to live [in LA] and see what's happening and not want to try to find a way to have your art respond to it... This movie is such an incrimination of so many other people who make things and claim to care...” — Wesley [50:15]

13. Comparison to Ari Aster and Hollywood’s Future

[52:13 – 54:56]

• Comparison with Eddington:
  • Sean: “That’s a movie that is…sincerely trying to grapple with a feeling. But what it ultimately does not have that this movie has is that this movie is shot through the prism of a family dynamic. ...This is a melodrama.” [52:18]
• Themes:
  • Movie is about family/found family, damaged relationships, politics on every scale.
  • “The entire emotional relationship to the movie will hinge on how you feel about Perfidia and Pat and then Bob and Willa…” — Sean [52:26]
• Elusive Message:
  • “What is this movie about? That's an unanswerable question. …It's much more relationship focused. But the circumstances of the story are undeniably about contemporary times and maybe even all times, just in terms of how power works...” — Sean [53:41]

14. Is This Anderson's Best?

[54:56 – 56:24]

• Wesley:
  • “I think this is a person who has just decided…he doesn't need a bag of tricks here...he really wants to say something…without the style getting in the way…a corner got turned for him.” [55:29]
• Sean:
  • “It’s going to be interesting to watch how the world receives it. …There’s interesting potential commercially. It’s a movie that satisfies in a unique way. It’s not as mysterious as some of his best work, and I think that’s for a reason.“ [55:08]

15. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "A militant Black woman owning a movie from Warner Brothers in 2025 is—that’s a big deal. That’s not something to be overlooked." – Sean Fennessey [25:10]
• "He’s the bait that gets switched. …You come for that giant poster head and you get a movie about Teyana Taylor and Chase Infinity." – Wesley Morris [43:56]
• "What is this movie about? That's an unanswerable question." – Sean Fennessey [53:41]
• "I think this is a person who has just decided that he doesn't need a bag of tricks here…This is a guy who…wants to say something without the style getting in the way." – Wesley Morris [55:29]

16. Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:28] – How studios pass around PTA projects
• [05:33] – Top three PTA movies debate
• [09:16] – Signature PTA scenes (Boogie Nights)
• [13:15] – The use of music in ‘One Battle After Another’
• [17:29] – Wesley’s apprehension about the film
• [21:32] – Film’s opening: revolution, action, and cast dynamics
• [23:52] – Teyana Taylor’s magnetic screen presence
• [28:05] – Taylor’s character: agency beyond “virtue signaling”
• [31:28] – Sean Penn’s career-capping performance
• [32:46] – Willa’s abduction and DiCaprio’s everyman struggles
• [39:43] – The “don’t get selfish”/humanizing scene with del Toro
• [43:26] – DiCaprio’s pratfalls and anti-hero beats
• [49:29] – Why PTA finally made a film set in the present
• [52:18] – Comparing this to other modern films like Eddington
• [54:56] – Is this Anderson’s crowning achievement?

17. Final Thoughts

This conversation presents One Battle After Another as a culminating work in Anderson's oeuvre: bold in subject, complex in character, and deeply reflective of the urgency and chaos of the present moment. Both hosts agree it is daring, hard to categorize, and feels uniquely vital in today’s cinematic landscape—a film likely to set the tone for what serious, ambitious American movies can still achieve.

For those who missed the episode:
This summary captures the critique, context, and enthusiasm for both the film and director, while spotlighting the rich performances and the impact of the film’s sociopolitical themes and style. If you want a deep, lively, and provocative tour through Paul Thomas Anderson’s new film—and what it means for American cinema—this episode is an essential listen.