The World Cup Is This Summer’s Blockbuster

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Cannonball with Wesley Morris

Episode: The World Cup Is This Summer’s Blockbuster

Date: July 16, 2026
Guest: Pablo Torre

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Episode Overview

This energetic episode of Cannonball, hosted by Wesley Morris with special guest Pablo Torre, delves into the 2026 FIFA World Cup as both a sports phenomenon and a profound cultural event. Morris and Torre explore how the tournament has overtaken the summer’s usual blockbusters, transforming cities and social spaces across North America. Their wide-ranging discussion touches on nationalism, hospitality, fandom, and the joy of collective experience, all set against the backdrop of America’s 250th anniversary.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal and National Experience of the World Cup

• Convenience and Accessibility: The World Cup’s North American location allows fans to watch matches at reasonable hours, marking a departure from the usual early-morning wakeups (02:44).
• A Magnet for Casual Fans: Pablo marvels at how the World Cup “fills up a bandwagon with casuals that make it more fun for the snobs,” bringing both seasoned experts and newcomers together (04:14).

2. World Cup as a Collective, Cinematic Experience

• Sports as Summer’s Blockbuster: Both compare the World Cup to epic movie events, emphasizing the theatrical and communal magic of watching huge moments together.
• Public Viewing Kinks: “I am crowd sexual is what I am,” Wesley jokes, describing his thrill at being among excited fans (06:27).
• Lingering Post-Pandemic Need for Connection: Torre reflects, “this is all about us remembering rubbing a bare elbow against another bare elbow and realizing we both enjoy that” (06:53).

3. Contrast with Qatar 2022 and the Darker Sides of Mega-Events

• Ethical Dimensions: Qatar’s human rights issues, climate challenges, and the temporary, haunting infrastructures of mega-events prompt both hosts to reflect on the moral complexity of global sports (07:07-08:34).
• Built-In Infrastructure: The U.S., Canada, and Mexico already have stadiums, so “it’s fun to watch foreigners marvel at things we took for granted” (08:51).

4. Hospitality and Local Flavor

• Firsthand Hosting Joy: Wesley describes attending a match in Philadelphia, being swept up by “Africans and, like, specifically from Cote d’Ivoire” celebrating together (10:44).
• True Hosting: “We actually hosted. We were hosts, and I loved that,” Wesley says, highlighting a rare unity across cultures in American cities (12:18).

5. Blockbuster Metaphors & Cultural Crossovers

• Movie Parallels: Pablo compares viral World Cup fan videos to iconic crowd reactions during “Avengers: Endgame,” spotlighting how watching other people’s joy is itself an emotional experience (13:01).
  • Notable Quote: “We get to give Thor’s hammer to people.” — Pablo Torre (14:14)
• Sports vs. Movies: Sports generate authentic, high-stakes human drama without needing an army of filmmakers to script it.

6. America’s Cultural Moment & Identity

• A New Type of Blockbuster: 2026 feels like a turning point where sports—and not movies—define the summer experience (26:01).
• Becoming Bicultural: The hosts meditate on what it means for Americans to embrace multicultural celebrations, “for these six weeks, we are bicultural. We’re multicultural. All the cultures are happening at once.” — Wesley (46:16)

7. Fan Culture, Theatrics, and Spectacle

• Global Fandom: The Norwegians’ synchronized “rowing” and the expressive antics of fans and players spotlight how different cultures bring their signature to the event (17:20).
• American Attempts at Fandom: Wesley pokes fun at American fans’ lack of a strong visual identity compared to other countries. “A guy… painted red, white, and blue, but he bangs a drum… What is American about this?” (17:04)
• Spectator Beauty: The diversity and exuberance of the crowd is frequently noted: “Give me the hottest person making the most ridiculous face. And… that rainbow coalition of hot people making ridiculous faces, America's been impressed with that.” — Pablo Torre (31:18)

8. Fashion, Hair, and Aesthetics

• Coaching Wardrobes: Wesley and Pablo critique and celebrate the diverse (and sometimes odd) fashion choices of coaches, especially US manager Pochettino (“boutique hotel concierge” vibes) (36:24-36:40).
• Hair Game: The World Cup is “the greatest event on earth for hair.” They speculate about barbers, pomade brands, and the dedication to personal style among players (37:46-38:38).

9. Refereeing as Performance and Authority

• The Role of Refs: Morris and Torre parse the mystique and difficulty of being a World Cup referee—“traffic cops, they are middle school principals, they're air traffic controllers. They're Supreme Court justices.” — Wesley (39:08)
• Vibes-Based Judging: “It is an entirely vibes based analysis,” Pablo says, referring to how refs "feel out" the end of close games (41:09-41:37).
• Memorable Refs: Wesley recalls his fascination with individual referees like Francois Le Texier and Ivan Barton (41:44-42:03).

10. The World Cup & the American Experiment (America @ 250)

• Declaration of [Inter]Dependence: The timing—America’s 250th—infuses the Cup with extra symbolic resonance.
  • Notable Quote: “This cup is like a declaration of interdependence in some way, too.” — Wesley (46:37)
• Reclaiming National Identity: Wesley frames July Fourth as “a renewal of our vows” and is moved by how the World Cup hosts a “populist expression of what America’s possibilities really are” (43:51-44:27).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the World Cup’s Place in the Summer:
  “This summer it is driven by, like, things happening in stadiums.” — Wesley Morris (26:27)
• On America as Host:
  “We actually hosted. We were hosts, and I loved that.” — Wesley Morris (12:18)
• On Crowd Experience:
  “What a kink… I am crowd sexual is what I am.” — Wesley Morris (06:27)
• On Watching Others Enjoy Sports:
  “It’s the watching people who love it the most watch it.” — Pablo Torre (14:26)
• On Sports vs. Hollywood:
  “Every game is Endgame… the stakes, I coming from sports, take the stakes for granted because this is sports. Of course, the game matters… when you sit in front of that vista of people watching… you realize what an insane tool of radicalization.” — Pablo Torre (14:58-15:51)
• On Vibrant Fandom:
  “The Norwegians have the rowing thing in which they are collectively chef's kiss on beat rowing.” — Pablo Torre (17:20)
• On Referees:
  “One man… managing a clock. He is adjudicating how much more time… He’s conducting.” — Wesley Morris (39:08-40:01)
• On America’s Multiculturalism:
  “This cup is like a declaration of interdependence in some way, too.” — Wesley Morris (46:37)
• On The Cinematic Nature of the Cup:
  “We get to give Thor’s hammer to people.” — Pablo Torre (14:14)

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Segment Timestamps

• 00:32 – 04:14: Introduction; Why the World Cup is more accessible and communal this year; "bandwagon" fans
• 06:07 – 07:03: Pandemic’s impact on crowd experience; the joy of gathering
• 07:03 – 08:34: Comparison with Qatar 2022: ethics, climate, infrastructure
• 10:44 – 12:26: Philadelphia match: on authentic hosting, immigrant and visitor joy
• 13:01 – 14:29: “Avengers: Endgame” metaphor; reactions, viral spectator videos
• 17:04 – 18:09: American and global fan rituals, signature fandom moments
• 24:02 – 26:27: World Cup as the season’s blockbuster; movies recede, stadium events dominate
• 29:12 – 31:18: Ultra slow-motion, crowd reaction shots, “America’s rainbow coalition of hot people”
• 36:24 – 37:46: Coaching and player fashion: boutique-hotel managers and pomade speculation
• 39:08 – 41:44: The multifaceted role of referees; vibes-based officiating
• 43:51 – 46:37: America at 250; the World Cup as a “renewal of vows” and “declaration of interdependence”

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Final Thoughts

Morris and Torre weave together sports, cinema, and nationalism, ultimately using the World Cup as a lens for understanding American culture at a historic crossroads. The tournament, they argue, is both escapist spectacle and a test case for America’s capacity to welcome—across race, identity, and creed—under a momentarily unified “big tent.” The joy, theatricality, and even the controversies of the Cup testify not only to the power of sports but also to the possibility of a more open, interconnected American identity.

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Useful For:
Anyone interested in the intersection of sports, culture, and identity will find this episode brimming with analogies, sharp observations, and humor. The blend of granular, idiosyncratic detail (fashion, hair, referees) with big themes (multiculturalism, national myth-making) makes it equally entertaining for soccer fans and pop culture buffs alike.

Transcript

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[Wesley Morris]

I'm Wesley Morris, and this is Cannonball. Today we're talking about the World Cup. We are finally at the end of the 2026 World cup, which has been just a wonderful time for me. And I wanted to talk about what a wonderful time I had with Pablo Torre. PABLO HOSTS Pablo Torre finds out. Great show about sports, but also a show that investigates the. The sports world and sports culture that just won a Pulitzer this year. And just so you know, we had this conversation before the quarterfinal matches got set last week. Pablo, I have wanted to say these words for a long time.

[Pablo Torre]

Your hand is on your heart.

[Wesley Morris]

Welcome to Cannonball.

[Pablo Torre]

I just hope the audience can hear the gesticulations that you've been making. You've created various breezes that have cooled me during the hottest summer that I can recall.

[Wesley Morris]

Uh, you're welcome. Uh, so, okay, here's the deal. Um, I love talking to you about all kinds of things. I have been watching this World cup for, you know, since it started. It's been a month. Uh, a lot of the time I'm thinking, wow, I love this tournament. Who would I like to talk to about it? And you've got experience with this event live, in person experience, journalistic experience.

[Pablo Torre]

I covered in 2014 in Brazil for five weeks.

[Wesley Morris]

I have the sort of quadrennial relationship to this tournament. Soccer is a sport that I wish were more part of my life. And so I'm watching it unfold this month and last month, and I'm moved by all the things that people on the Internet were moved by the national takeovers of our cities, the joy that is being brought to this place and the joy that we are giving the people who came to experience it. One of the things that's important to say, the reason I am noticing it, is because I'm not waking up at 2 o' clock in the morning to watch.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, this is, this is very convenient.

[Wesley Morris]

A soccer tournament for casuals, right?

[Pablo Torre]

Especially yes. Who may or may not be radicalized now that they've seen enough of these things in those convenient Time slots.

[Wesley Morris]

And this might be a radicalizing event for me. I love it because it's never been MLS for me and it isn't for most people.

[Pablo Torre]

If I can whisper hoarsely into a

[Wesley Morris]

microphone, Major League Soccer is what I'm talking about.

[Pablo Torre]

People aren't. And by the way, just shout out to mls because at some point, MLS is like, surely we will drink from this chalice, the cup that overfloweth. We must too drink from this. And I don't think that's happening.

[Wesley Morris]

I. Well, I don't know. We don't know. But, you know, I was really, really committed to making sure I watched as many World cup matches as I could. And I guess, first of all, I'm wondering what your experience of this cup is like. How's it been going for you?

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, it's been revelatory. And I say that as somebody who thought he would have, like, the. As a New Yorker, the Knicks championship hangover. And maybe, like, I needed some. I needed a hydration break, as it were, but instead I'm getting. I'm getting hair of the dog.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah. Oh, okay.

[Pablo Torre]

And it's. And it's. It is. I'm going to torture this metaphor for the next hour.

[Wesley Morris]

We're here to do. Have you not met me?

[Pablo Torre]

It is intoxicating, and I've been thinking about why. And it is. It is about in. In ways that I didn't fully appreciate. It's about my friends who are into this in a way that's surprising to me.

[Wesley Morris]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

Because I love. I love. And this is what I learned during the Knicks run. And this is what the World cup by an order of magnitude has that no one else has the ability to fill up a bandwagon with casuals that make it more fun for the snobs.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And we just don't have many places where it's like, please come aboard. The people who don't know anything and are going to say things that reflect what would otherwise be frustrating aspects of your sport but are now endearing. Like what, for instance? So there just no timeouts.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah, it's like.

[Pablo Torre]

No, we have these hydration breaks that are commercial breaks now. And that's new.

[Wesley Morris]

You're explaining the spirit sport.

[Pablo Torre]

The sport. And like, why the. The. The giant blonde guy on Norway.

[Wesley Morris]

Oh, Holland.

[Pablo Torre]

The 6 foot 4 Norwegian Striking Viking gaining renown worldwide. What's his deal?

[Wesley Morris]

I mean, he's looking for Die Hard 5 is what he's doing. I mean, he seems very sweet. He's like a very adorable.

[Pablo Torre]

I like The Americans, I think they are kind of hilarious as well. And they are funny.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

An adorable long blonde hair.

[Wesley Morris]

Hans Gruber called. He needs his henchmen back.

[Pablo Torre]

If only Hans Gruber had the precision

[Wesley Morris]

with his skull, that movie would have lasted seven minutes.

[Pablo Torre]

When it lands there on that man's head, there's only one outcome, but it's also to just stay on this track of like, why do I enjoy watching people watch this? It's hard not to make an analogy to movies.

[Wesley Morris]

Oh, sure. I mean, I was gonna ask you about that because these are the movies to me this summer and we're watching

[Pablo Torre]

em in, so to speak, in theaters. We're gathering. Yes, we're gathering together physically.

[Wesley Morris]

I am going to bars.

[Pablo Torre]

And it's just the difference between watching something alone or on a little screen and actually needing to be around others who are enjoying it. And that enjoyment of your enjoyment. What a kink. Yeah, what a kink that it turns out I have.

[Wesley Morris]

I am crowd sexual is what I am.

[Pablo Torre]

We are in a polycule feeling what others are feeling and feeling humanity in every literal and figurative sense. That's. That's what's been so joyous about this. And I was thinking about why does it feel that way now? And it's hard not to also just point back to the fact that we are thawing still out of the pandemic.

[Wesley Morris]

Right. Oh, interesting, interesting.

[Pablo Torre]

I think this is all about us remembering rubbing a bare elbow against another bare elbow and realizing we're maybe both, we both enjoy that.

[Wesley Morris]

But this feels different for me from 22, which was the last cup, which was in Qatar. And you know, very different. Very different.

[Ad Council Announcer]

Right.

[Wesley Morris]

The, the. Well, the. Okay, okay, this is actually, let's stay here for a second. There was a huge moral barrier to enjoying that. There was a climatological barrier to enjoy, to like feeling great about enjoying that

[Pablo Torre]

soccer tournament, the human rights stuff. And also the calendar. They had to hold it in November,

[Wesley Morris]

December, because it was too hot.

[Pablo Torre]

Because it turns out not ideal to hold a summer based soccer tournament in the Middle east during the summer. Which raises questions about why were you hosting it there at all? Which brings up the oopsie. Random.

[Wesley Morris]

We have to talk about FIFA.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. Whoops. Turns out, turns out maybe the soccer and the people, the fans were not the priority in that one.

[Wesley Morris]

I feel like then, yes, that was Definitely true in 22, leading up to the event, there are all of these questions about like, who suffered to get what built. This was true. This has been true for the Olympics.

[Pablo Torre]

All of them.

[Wesley Morris]

The World cup pop up, arenas pop

[Pablo Torre]

up, prisons pop up, all sorts of buildings that become. You know, it's like visiting a city after they've hosted one of these big international tournaments. That's a different situation, but it's like visiting Pompeii.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

You're like, this was once. This was once a beautiful institution, and now it's ghosts.

[Wesley Morris]

But, like, one of the things, I'm assuming that was great about having the US Win the bid was we already had all these stadiums, right? And not. Not. Not just the U.S. canada has stadiums.

[Pablo Torre]

Mexico.

[Wesley Morris]

Mexico has stadiums like. Like, great, great, you know, football stadiums, especially Mexico City.

[Pablo Torre]

And it's been fun to watch foreigners, visitors, marvel at things that we took for granted.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

The bigness of our buildings.

[Wesley Morris]

Y' all didn't tell us y' all had all this. Women we knew, but we didn't know all of this.

[Pablo Torre]

And. And that's the other, by the way, through line as we're, like, dancing around. All of the parts of the cultural map here is people kind of falling in love with America. You know, that part it's just like, oh, yeah, America in the. She's all that movie that is this World cup took its glasses off.

[Wesley Morris]

Oh, my God. Rachel Leigh Cook is a hottie, as it turns out.

[Pablo Torre]

Ladybugs, get your cute butt down here. And we are doing a little twirl on the staircase down to prom night.

[Wesley Morris]

So I will say I did go to see my sister, got these tickets months ago to take my nephew, who is her son, and he's 17 years old, to go to one of the matches. We went to see Coracao Cote d' Ivoire in Philadelphia, which is where I'm from. And, you know, there's a couple things. One, Philadelphia, you know, very black city. It was kind of thrilling to be at this stadium that was not full of African Americans. It was full of Africans and, like, specifically from Cote d'. Ivoire. And the beautiful thing about that was from, like, the 45 minutes before the match started, you know, people were filling the stands. People were. The cultivarians were here to parte. I don't know if they knew they were going to win that match. They did, but they were dancing, chanting, singing, like, whooping, hollering, talking to the. To the player. I mean, respectfully talking to the players. The players, during hydration break would come over and, like, be like, yo, what's up? Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. It just was. It was beautiful. And what I thought while I was watching this was, you know, what doesn't happen during an Eagles game?

[Pablo Torre]

The security guys say, no, no, no, visitors, don't do that here.

[Wesley Morris]

Don't do that. But also, we don't do that as an American people. This is not how we watch sports. And I think what it brought out was just this love of being at this event in this city. And people were. I heard people say, like, we gotta get a cheesesteak after this thing. You could have gotten one there, it would have cost you $22 or something. You can go to gyms and get one for 12.

[Pablo Torre]

I just like the idea, though, of, like, Cote d', Ivoire, their fans having to figure that out. Where do we go for the cheesesteak? And they're going on Yelp.

[Wesley Morris]

I know that's. Well, that's what we're here for. There were people who really were like, don't go here, go here. How can we help you have a great time here?

[Pablo Torre]

And how do we introduce the best of us?

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The hosting we actually hosted. We were hosts, and I loved that. Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

And I think one of the responsibilities, if not the delights of a true host, is just making sure your guests have fun and then watching them enjoy the food you're serving. And so here is the movie metaphor that has recurred for me as I watch this happen. As an American, I think of a cold, air conditioned movie theater. It is dark, and people are watching the Avengers movies.

[Wesley Morris]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

And it's the reaction video.

[Wesley Morris]

Oh, sure.

[Pablo Torre]

Of when Captain America picks up Thor's hammer and everyone in the theater is losing their minds.

[Wesley Morris]

Well, they. When they know it's gonna happen too. Right? Because. Yes, because Thanos is on Thor and he's got the ax. We're talking about Avengers endgame. There's like a real, like. Oh, my. Oh, my God.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, my God. He's worthy. He is worthy. And it's the thing of. And this is a video clip, the one I'm thinking of, that has been so viral, even those who don't feel that movie that way, when you watch someone who does, I find myself.

[Wesley Morris]

It's crying. Hearing I cry. I've seen this video and it has moved me to tears.

[Pablo Torre]

And how embarrassing. Except it feels like we're actually doing something human against our own conscious will.

[Wesley Morris]

Right, right.

[Pablo Torre]

It's the sympathetic neurons of our brain. And so when you're hosting, watching the guests really get into something and you're maybe not in it for the same reasons they are.

[Wesley Morris]

I love this.

[Pablo Torre]

And we get to give Thor's hammer to People.

[Wesley Morris]

Right, right, right, right, right, right.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, and so, and so it's, it's, it's, it's the watching people watch it.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

It's the watching people who love it the most watch it.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And that is, I mean, that's where movies and sports share this again, this cosmic kinship. But it's the thing where sports. This is the thing about sports versus Hollywood that I will put a wrinkle on.

[Wesley Morris]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

In Hollywood. God bless the Russo brothers. They had to work so hard to engineer that.

[Wesley Morris]

I mean, I've seen the credits of these movies. There's like, it's, you know, it's a whole city that gets credited for making an Avengers movie.

[Pablo Torre]

And the thing about sports and the World cup is that this is everywhere. Every game is endgame. And so the stakes, I, coming from sports, take the stakes for granted because this is sports. Of course, the game matters. Yes. Nationalism, all that stuff. But then when you actually sit in front of that, of that vista of people watching and you're there to feel that feeling, it's. You realize what, what an insane tool of radicalization. And by that I mean, I don't think that you're gonna insurrect MetLife Stadium. I mean, radicalization in the sense of. I believe that there's the possibility that people are falling in love with what it feels like to be a sports fan. A hardcore sports fan.

[Wesley Morris]

No, I mean, like I wake up at two o' clock in the morning at the next World cup to watch a match. Sports fan.

[Pablo Torre]

Like a. I'm mad now.

[Wesley Morris]

Yes, yes.

[Pablo Torre]

At things that aren't even in my hemisphere kind of sports fan.

[Wesley Morris]

Right, right. Ref. What you just do.

[Pablo Torre]

And, and where is. Let me, let me look up this ref's name kind of sports fan.

[Wesley Morris]

Pablo, I have some news for you. I have looked up some refs names. We can talk about this. I have looked up some names. I mean, I think this excitement, this commitment, the characters that we bring to these matches, that's a thing that should stay here. Right? I mean. Cause we. I would like to have a little more stank in our fan participation, you know, like, oh my God, you watch the US Games, right. You'd see what was going on in the States during that loss to Belgium. There were some cutaways to. I mean, the one that really comes to mind is a guy who was dressed as, I don't know what, painted red, white and blue, but he beat

[Pablo Torre]

a drum

[Wesley Morris]

and it just went boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I'm like, what is American about this? What is the cultural expression happening here?

[Pablo Torre]

We are being schooled by the rest of the world hardcore in terms of. I mean, the Norwegians have the rowing thing in which they are collectively chef's kiss on beat rowing.

[Wesley Morris]

But also what it says to me is we as Norwegians know who we are when we go anywhere. We know how to be. We know what def. We know what. We have a thing that defines us. It's not everything, but we have a kind of cultural logo, a logo of the spirit. And this rowing thing that we are doing is a very good. For example.

[Pablo Torre]

And America had a chance to distinguish itself. We were kind of the underdog, this lovable, plucky David for a while.

[Wesley Morris]

Oh, yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And then we did the most American thing, which is we called the manager.

[Wesley Morris]

Don't do it all.

[Pablo Torre]

I did.

[Wesley Morris]

I asked for a review because I didn't think it was a foul.

[Pablo Torre]

President Trump asked FIFA to review the red card penalty given to U.S. men's

[Apple Card Announcer]

soccer star Falarin Baligan.

[Pablo Torre]

We said we want a refund on this and we got it. A stunning development. The US national team striker Folairan Baligan will be available to play in the. And everything from flipped.

[Apple Card Announcer]

The Belgians are outraged. They are astonished.

[Pablo Torre]

So, yeah, look, the vibes.

[Wesley Morris]

That's. But that's. That's karmic. That's cosmos.

[Pablo Torre]

And there are people in sports who will say, get that psychic energy talk out of here. And I am not one of those.

[Wesley Morris]

I'm not one of those people at all.

[Pablo Torre]

USA is out of the World cup

[Apple Card Announcer]

after a devastating and let's say, ugly loss to Belgium. This after all the controversy surrounding President Trump.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm a believer, I'm a firm believer that the human brain is one tank and there is the performance stuff in it. And it's sloshing with what can be characterized as pressure and the expectation of, are you the good guys to stay in comic book land. Are you the good guys or are you the bad guys? And what does it look like when the world is rooting against you versus seeing you as this delightful host that has welcomed everyone else and is somehow getting away with being David And.

[Wesley Morris]

But it also was a weird thing because this was in Seattle. You know, a place that can, like in a stadium that. Where, you know, when everybody's fired up, you can loudest place create an earthquake in sports, you register on the Richter scale. It felt like nobody knew what was happening.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, so we should talk about this because your observations around the people inside of these Buildings raises an important point about these games. And the most expensive games that wind up being the most important games. Because when games are more important, they become more expensive.

[Wesley Morris]

How do you mean that? In terms of expense and importance.

[Pablo Torre]

The people who can afford to buy the tickets.

[Wesley Morris]

I understand. I got it.

[Pablo Torre]

It's a lot of CMOs, yo. This is the chief marketing officers. It's the people who are, I love this point. You know, either literal diplomats or walking around like they're, you know, effectively diplomatically immune because they're, I don't know, the CEO of American Express. Yeah, it's a lot of those people. And so I think when the U.S. game in Seattle happened against Belgium, the crowd was not resilient.

[Wesley Morris]

Right.

[Pablo Torre]

The crowd wasn't helping.

[Wesley Morris]

Right, right.

[Pablo Torre]

And I think, by and large, when I think of this World Cup, I'm actually thinking of the people outside watching these things.

[Wesley Morris]

You mean of the stadiums or at the bars? At the.

[Pablo Torre]

At the bars. Parties at town squares around the world. At watch parties around the world in neighborhoods. I'm talking about queens.

[Wesley Morris]

Right, sure.

[Pablo Torre]

And watching those people watch it because those people are for better and for worse, this all feels quite existential to them in a way that I think the people who are on camera, even inside these buildings, I don't think they feel it that same way, demographically speaking.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah, I would agree with that. I think we should take a break, and when we come back, I just. I want to think through some more granular details of this World cup that are talking to me. Also, I kind of made a little list of observations that I've been writing down as I've been watching, and I just. I just want to run through them and talk to you about them.

[Pablo Torre]

And I want to find out if I'm going to be as mad as I think I'm going to be when you bring them up.

[Wesley Morris]

So we'll take a break. We'll be right back with Pablo Torre. This is Cannonball. We'll be right back.

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[Wesley Morris]

We're back. We're talking about the World Cup. The 2026 World cup, but the culture of the World Cup. Pablo I have been watching this cup and just what I love about this experience is just the things that occur to me. I mean this is true when I watch all kinds of stuff like any, any sporting event, any awards show. They're just production choices, cultural questions that come up for me.

[Pablo Torre]

Now you got papers in front of you. And I, and I am always curious, what is Wesley Morris writing down? What does he find interesting about this thing that I'm also watching?

[Wesley Morris]

Well, I can start with. Let's just go through. I've got a list of things that

[Pablo Torre]

I have found I love compelling about a Wesley list.

[Wesley Morris]

Thought number one is this event seems to have successfully eaten a lot of other events. I don't think I've heard boo from Taytay and Titi or Titi and Toto since the wedding. I think the World cup is. I mean some other things have helped blow that off the front page too. But I don't know, I feel like this would have been a differently big deal somehow if it had happened a month from now because we'll go on.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, just first off, we saw Mazel YouTube. Oh yeah. By the way, love is love. Finding your soul's counterpoint in another whatever

[Wesley Morris]

this house we Believe in getting married at msg.

[Pablo Torre]

It was a pillow stitching of a ceremony. And by the way, it happening at the Garden, it's like we just saw the finals. As my friend Jerdan put it, she thinks she's the Knicks.

[Wesley Morris]

Well, she's the Stevie Nicks.

[Pablo Torre]

And she does have banners hanging in various arenas about how many sold out dates she's had in those buildings.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah. I think that we are at some kind of strange behemoth place in the culture like this. You know, it's summer. Right. For our entire lives, we have been gradually institutionalized into believing that the period between Memorial Day and Labor Day is fireworks every weekend. And most of it is driven. It used to be driven by the movies.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Wesley Morris]

This summer it is driven by, like, things happening in stadiums.

[Pablo Torre]

Correct.

[Wesley Morris]

And somehow it feels to me like the blockbuster event of early July kind of fizzled at the box office.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah.

[Wesley Morris]

It's like the reviews weren't good, the attendance was rigged, and we think we're

[Pablo Torre]

gonna watch it on tape delay later. Eventually, is my suspicion.

[Wesley Morris]

Oh, wow. Yeah, of course.

[Pablo Torre]

That's my fe.

[Wesley Morris]

I believe that.

[Pablo Torre]

Meanwhile. Meanwhile, hey, Live Sports offers an arena tour of a different kind. And we're watching that.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, depending on how deep your soccer knowledge goes, there are errors in that stadium.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, absolutely.

[Wesley Morris]

I mean, all the people who showed up in Carlos Valderrama hair, like the wigs.

[Pablo Torre]

God bless those with the. With that level of wig, with this level of heat.

[Wesley Morris]

I mean.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Wesley Morris]

All right, Next thing I am. The thing I'm angriest about the US Losing to Belgium for is I was hoping they could end those uniforms for me. I hate them so much. I kind of understand.

[Pablo Torre]

Which uniform.

[Wesley Morris]

The Belgium uniform. They're like. They're like. It's kind of like a Peter Max painting got dropped in a bucket of water and just sort of like, diluted itself. It's a little. It's not tie dye. It's not abstract expressionism. It's kind of like a mistake.

[Pablo Torre]

You're saying this is. This is my daughter's watercolor.

[Wesley Morris]

It's not even. Yes, my kid could have painted that is what's happening on these jerseys. And if you're Belgium, I kind of understand because you definitely don't want to be mistaken for Germany. Right.

[Pablo Torre]

I think that's the big challenge.

[Wesley Morris]

Right.

[Pablo Torre]

Like, because your color palette is.

[Wesley Morris]

Is the same as constrained. So they went through.

[Pablo Torre]

It's how I felt about Croatia, where I'm like, Croatia's jersey looks like a movie in which the American US Men's National Team. They didn't have the rights and they're like, we got to come up with this other sort of thing that won't get us sued.

[Wesley Morris]

Yep. Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Red, white and blue. I'm like, that's okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Wesley Morris]

We're going to do the store brand version.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. This is the I met a spirit Halloween. And I'm buying arachnid hero outfit. Because you will get litigated against if you say I'm Spider Man.

[Wesley Morris]

I am going as wonder person this year. Don't mistake. I'm just a person. I don't want.

[Pablo Torre]

No, no, no. This is entirely coincidental.

[Wesley Morris]

My. I love the, this is another thing that I love. I love the slow mo. I love an ultra slow motion. I am watching this. You know, I had been watching the cup during Wimbledon. Wimbledon tried to give us this ultra slow motion situation between points. It's just rarely interesting. They will go into the stands and find people in the crowd. And it's Wimbledon, so people are just really just kind of sitting there. That's the reaction shot. These cutaways at the World cup are like, these are Oscar winning performances happening in these stands.

[Pablo Torre]

But also because there are no timeouts or breaks in the action. These things are dosed out so sparingly.

[Wesley Morris]

Yes, yes.

[Pablo Torre]

And so I find myself being like, can I rewatch the goal? And I can't.

[Ad Council Announcer]

Oh.

[Pablo Torre]

Because the game proceeds.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And so you're waiting for like an opportunity for this masterful sleep slow mo replay. That feels like it's like again, you're like in this desert of instant replay and then suddenly you get the raindrop and you're like, this is even more nourishing because I have been with. It has been withheld from me.

[Wesley Morris]

But also the people in these stands are given face.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, yeah.

[Wesley Morris]

Like there are just some, I mean, I wrote this down, like some.

[Apple Card Announcer]

Where was it?

[Ad Council Announcer]

Which was that?

[Wesley Morris]

Oh, the, the, oh, France versus Sweden. Like, Mbappe's goal didn't go in. It, like hit the shit out of the post, right? And there were two guys who were just like in this dance, just being like, oh, my God, it's gonna, oh. But the disbelief is just the things the human face can do that you never think about that people do all the time. But like when you're actually shown it by not actors, right. By people really trul. Experiencing this in the moment, it is just, it's really moving. It's really moving.

[Pablo Torre]

And historically in sports, again, I, I, I've, I've become numb to this. But during the World Cup, I've become awakened to it again. The value of finding the right crowd shot. Give me the hottest person making the most ridiculous face. And let me tell you something, that rainbow coalition of hot people making ridiculous faces, America's also been impressed with that.

[Wesley Morris]

Indeed, I will say on the field, hot people making ridiculous faces is also very appealing. Like I, you know, I think Ronaldo missed a goal, but he had a, he had a close up that was just like, mm, this man is wow. Just very. He. He's a movie star.

[Pablo Torre]

He's angular, he's clavicular angular. He's like golden ratio.

[Wesley Morris]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Like got fed into a computer.

[Apple Card Announcer]

Yes.

[Wesley Morris]

But there's a little bit of child in there. There's a little bit of pretty in there. It's like a really fascinating combination of different beauties that create his beauty. And that's part of what's so mesmerizing about him. I mean, we're talking about movies, we're talking about summer, we're talking about blockbusters, but we're also talking about stars, right? Yes. Just to have this wealth of stardom at these matches is extraordinary.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm realizing that one of the through lines from the NBA Finals to the World cup has been the theatricality.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah, I love this.

[Pablo Torre]

And the closeup, the. It's like, it's like a dolly shot into your pores and you're like, that's the thing. And you get to see the pulsating epidermis of these guys in a way that feels intimate.

[Wesley Morris]

Right. But the difference between the NBA and professional soccer is that you don't need like, the acting in the NBA is not necessary. And when it does come into play, it's bad. Right. Those refs aren't falling for any of that. And that's is also true at, you know, in soccer. But the, but the Susan Lucci Ness of operatic. Yes, the like Daniel Day Lewising happening on, on the pitch is just extraordinary. And it is, I mean, you know, frequently, you know, this is what slow Mo is also good for. Is like, sir, you weren't even touched. You down on the floor rolling around like somebody poured boiling water on you. Nothing happened. Here's your Oscar and I.

[Pablo Torre]

And if I'm being generous, maybe it's because a soccer pitch is vast compared to an NBA court in which the ref isn't close. And you, you, you're. It's sort of like being one of 20 kids and you're like trying to get the attention.

[Wesley Morris]

Well, frequently there really is somebody Being like, yo, hey, yo, there's a purse got stolen. Yo, police.

[Pablo Torre]

There is a lot of that happening in soccer. And so the theatricality seems incentivized as well as culturally retrograde because it is annoying to watch people collapse and then watch the traffic cam and be like, there is no insurance claim here. This is tax fraud.

[Wesley Morris]

This is tax fraud.

[Pablo Torre]

And that happens a lot.

[Wesley Morris]

Another thing I want to talk about, Murat Yakin, the Swiss coach.

[Pablo Torre]

What a pull.

[Wesley Morris]

I love watching this man. I mean, he is just. He's like the cigarette that you smoke after sex. That's what he looks like to me. He's got these windowpane glasses and this slicked back gray hair. It's not even silver fox.

[Pablo Torre]

He's refractory.

[Wesley Morris]

Yes, yes.

[Pablo Torre]

We're all. We just. We need some time, but we'll be back out there.

[Wesley Morris]

He's kind of. He looks a little bit like Javier Bardem, but nothing like Javier Bardem. You know, this is. I don't know. I just. Some of these coaches and their looks, he just wears. He's got a blazer and a T shirt on and he just. It's just such a strong look.

[Pablo Torre]

So I've had you on my show before to talk about coaching wardrobes.

[Wesley Morris]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Because in the NBA, for instance, and

[Wesley Morris]

we did talk about soccer.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, yeah.

[Wesley Morris]

And what the coaches wear when they come to a game.

[Pablo Torre]

And historically, the soccer manager. Soccer coach is, you know, remarkably GQ in comparison now to the tyranny of the quarter zip that has dominated the NBA. But what's been so interesting is seeing the diversity of wardrobes during the World Cup.

[Wesley Morris]

Yes. But by. And, and by. Well, you know, it is a diverse range of things. Everybody's wearing everything.

[Pablo Torre]

And even like the US Manager Pochettino, it's.

[Wesley Morris]

It's like, oh, Maurizio, he.

[Pablo Torre]

Mauricio's. I'm like, this is. I don't. It.

[Wesley Morris]

It doesn't sit well with me because he looks like. Because he's business casual. It's not business casual. What it is is boutique hotel concierge.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, my God.

[Wesley Morris]

He's wearing like short sleeve button down, a car coat. A short sleeve. I mean, I don't know what the look is, but it's definitely. Here are the three hottest restaurants in town. I can get your reservation in one of them.

[Pablo Torre]

God damn.

[Wesley Morris]

Happy to.

[Pablo Torre]

We're being managed by the guy at the Ace Hotel.

[Wesley Morris]

He looks like. I mean, everybody says he looks like Russell Crowe. Right. Like, I mean, that is the most obvious person that he resembles. Like his Level like Miz era Russell.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Longer hair. Russell Crowe. Yes.

[Wesley Morris]

I think he looks more like if Russell Crowe.

[Pablo Torre]

Say it.

[Wesley Morris]

If Channing Tatum was trapped inside. Russell Crowe is really what he looks like.

[Pablo Torre]

If Russell Crowe got 21 Jump Streeted.

[Wesley Morris]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

There is a bit of, like, he's trying to be young.

[Wesley Morris]

I don't mind it. I mean. Cause who really is looking like that on the streets? I don't. Nobody I know. All right, so there's a few, like, smaller things. How much pomade do you think is used during the Cup?

[Pablo Torre]

I think about this a lot.

[Wesley Morris]

I mean, it is the greatest event on earth for hair, period. And I'm, with all due respect to the Atlanta Hair show, and how do

[Pablo Torre]

we not know that brand?

[Wesley Morris]

How is it not sponsored? Right. How is there not one pomade company being like, it's us?

[Pablo Torre]

I, I, I would consider that news. I could use. I'd actually like to know, can you find that out? What is your performance pomade brand of choice? It's just Cristiano, as a per.

[Wesley Morris]

I mean, but, you know, it's not just, I mean, it's not just the. I mean, I mean, there's so much great hair.

[Pablo Torre]

How do they keep it in place?

[Wesley Morris]

So much great hair.

[Pablo Torre]

Like, I mean, Holland's ponytail. Like, just Norse.

[Wesley Morris]

The cornrows, these guys.

[Pablo Torre]

A unicorn's tail is coming out the back of his head.

[Wesley Morris]

Are there barbers traveling with these teams in these cities?

[Pablo Torre]

Wow.

[Wesley Morris]

You know, Ronaldo must have just, like, a barber in his suitcase. Maybe they cut each other's hair. Maybe they cut their own hair. I don't know. Next, I want to talk about the referees.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Wesley Morris]

I want to spend a minute to really, like, luxuriate in what it means to call these games. Because these guys are traffic cops, they are middle school principals, they're air traffic controllers.

[Pablo Torre]

They're Supreme Court justices.

[Wesley Morris]

They're conducting orchestras. They're lie detectors.

[Pablo Torre]

They're athletes. They're running around.

[Wesley Morris]

They're the narrator in our town. I mean, they come.

[Pablo Torre]

I love when they address theory now.

[Wesley Morris]

And they come and tell us all the story of what just happened.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. They are a human pillow to scream into as well.

[Wesley Morris]

A punching bag.

[Pablo Torre]

Come get your catharsis by yelling at this guy.

[Wesley Morris]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

No, it's, it's, It's. It's such a hard.

[Wesley Morris]

It's an impressive job. It's one guy. Yes, it's one guy.

[Pablo Torre]

It's remarkable.

[Wesley Morris]

One man. I mean, zoom out game. Way less space. There's three dudes.

[Pablo Torre]

Zoom out. And there's One guy kind of helplessly trying to keep this field trip in order.

[Wesley Morris]

Right? Yes, that's exactly right. There's like so much of what is beautiful about soccer to me is there in what the ref. It's signified by the presence and necessity of a referee. Right. He's there to keep everybody honest. He's there to keep the trains running on time. He's managing a clock. He is adjudicating how much. How much more time. Right. Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, just that. I mean, this is that paradox of they are meant to call everything precisely as possible, but at the very end of the game, when you learn, are we there yet? It's entirely up to him. And that art at the end, which is definitionally anti scientific, is this thing where he, you know, what the ref has to do, the thing that I that we here have been praising, which is he has to kind of feel it all out. Yeah, I'm feeling how people are feeling.

[Wesley Morris]

Is it okay, you think it's that subjective?

[Pablo Torre]

I think that the ref needs.

[Wesley Morris]

There's vibes involved.

[Pablo Torre]

It is an entirely vibes based analysis because you gotta pick the spot where it feels like something great was not just about to happen. And you gotta pick that in between interstitial sort of inflection point where you minimize the resentment. And if they're honest, they're doing emotional polling.

[Wesley Morris]

I didn't. I mean, I knew it was subjective, but you watch a guy like Francois Le Texier, who's one of the refs

[Pablo Torre]

in there, you say that's a real name, not name you just made up. I didn't make it up.

[Wesley Morris]

This is a real reference. Like my other guy is. What's his name? Yvonne. Yvonne Barton. I love Yvonne Barton is my. He's the one that I have looked up most frequently. I'm like, oh, Ivan's here. I now know him. I don't have to look him up anymore. But like, I love it when he's calling a match because.

[Pablo Torre]

Because he is. What kind of a ruler is he?

[Wesley Morris]

He's on top of everything. And I think all the players hate him. Like, he know, like, I think that's a sign of a great ref. Everybody on the field thinks you're doing a team terrible job. And the final thing that I've really been thinking about for this entire event, the thing that is the most kind of moving to me is that this is taking place in the United states during the 250th anniversary of this country. Not lost on me. It's happening during this moment where our Story. You know, I always think of the Fourth of July as a renewal of our vows. Right. If you so choose to like to accept these documents as being, like, a real call to action and a blueprint for how to live in this country. I. Every Fourth of July am. Like, I renew my vows to this place. I believe in this project despite everything. Having all these people come here for this Fourth of July or be here during this Fourth of July, during this. The story that we tell about this country, we're telling two stories. One is, we're great. It's all fine. Nothing bad ever happened versus where people. And we have love and kindness and openness and curiosity and difference. Right. Like, we're a diverse nation. And I mean diverse in all the ways something can be diverse. And people are coming here and experiencing that. It's not just this one guy who is bossing people into believing that there's one story about this country that there's a bunch of. And I don't know. I'm just really moved by that.

[Pablo Torre]

I am, too. And that's even though the one guy tried to make it all about himself.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And the resilience of this thing. And it's good. I think, having talked about this at length with you, now it's good that we see it as a movie or television. Because as much as I love a Pulitzer Prize winner for criticism, it is kind of up to the audience to decide. What does this mean to you?

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And we've decided that we're gonna have a great time. And that populist expression of what America's possibilities really are, effectively, whatever's happening over there or at the top of this thing or even all around us, we can find room to rub a bare elbow against another bare elbow and briefly fall in love with this Swiss guy for a day, but never my guy. Well, I was gonna say, I don't know his name. He may still be a fictional character. I haven't fact checked that.

[Wesley Morris]

You mean my coach or my ref.

[Pablo Torre]

I was gonna say I've lost track of all the Swiss that you've been falling in love with. But we can contain these multitudes, and so we do.

[Wesley Morris]

I do also think part of the thing that is moving me about this 250th situation is your invocation of Thor's Hammer. And, you know, Captain America being worthy enough to pick it up.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, my God. It is Captain America. Isn't it a bit on the nose? Now that I think about it?

[Wesley Morris]

It's the fact that when he's fighting Thanos. He's got the shield and the handgun. And, you know, obviously the shield is starred and there's a star in some stripes. Right. And there's two cultures happening at the same time.

[Pablo Torre]

It's Erling Holland holding a cheesesteak.

[Wesley Morris]

Yes. Ding. A ding, ding, ding. Thank you. I love that sort of biculturality. And I think that, you know, for a lot of Americans, we don't believe in biculturality. And for these six weeks, we are bicultural. We're multicultural.

[Pablo Torre]

We are.

[Wesley Morris]

We're like. We couldn't. All the cultures are happening at once. And that. I don't know. The Declaration of Independence is, you know, the document that we're sort of acknowledging or at least I'm renewing my vows with. But it's also. This cup is like a declaration of interdependence in some way, too.

[Pablo Torre]

A declaration of interdependence is the most romantic way to describe an orgy that I've ever heard.

[Wesley Morris]

All right, Pablo, you did it. Thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it. This was.

[Pablo Torre]

This was great, Wesley. This has clearly been trapped inside of me for a long time. Thank you for drawing it out.

[Wesley Morris]

I mean, you've been doing it on your show a little bit.

[Pablo Torre]

Just a little.

[Wesley Morris]

This podcast is supported by Her Private Hell, official selection of the 2026 Cannes Film Festival. Her Private Hell is the newest film from Nicholas Winding Refn, director of Drive and the Neon Demon. It has been hailed by critics as a visually striking, hypnotic neo noir. Starring Sophie Thatcher and Charles Melton. Her Private Hell opens in theaters everywhere July 24th.

[Apple Card Announcer]

This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Apple Card puts the power of titanium in the palm of your hand. What does that mean? It means the power to earn unlimited daily cash back on your purchases every day. It means a materially different credit card accepted anywhere in the world. MasterCard is accepted. Ditch the plastic, upgrade to titanium. Apply in the wallet app on iPhone today, subject to credit approval. Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and more at applecard.com Gun injuries are

[Ad Council Announcer]

the leading cause of death for children and teens in the United States. Some people avoid talking about gun violence because they don't think they can make a difference. But every conversation matters. When it comes to gun violence. We agree on more than we think. And having productive conversations about gun violence can help protect children and teens. Learn how to have the [e-mail] brought to you by the Ad Council.

[Wesley Morris]

This episode of Cannonball was produced by Jackson and Janelle Anderson. It was edited by Austin Mitchell. It was engineered by Daniel Ramirez. It was recorded by Maddy Masiello, Kyle Grandillo, Nick Pittman and Samantha Winter. Our original musics by Dan Powell and Diane Wong. Our theme musics by Justin Ellington. The photo for our show art Bobby Doherty took it. Our audience team is Katie o' Brien and Maria Abdoul. Cough and next week, there's no place like home. And I mean no place.

[Pablo Torre]

Child.

[Ad Council Announcer]

Gun injuries are the leading cause of death for children and teens in the United States. Some people avoid talking about gun violence because they don't think they can make a difference. But every conversation matters. When it comes to gun violence, we agree on more than we think. And having productive conversations about gun violence can help protect children and teens. Learn how to have the conversation@ agreeto agree.org brought to you by the Ad Council.