What’s Love Got to Do with ‘Obsession’?

Summary

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Cannonball with Wesley Morris

Episode: What’s Love Got to Do with ‘Obsession’?
Date: June 11, 2026
Guests: Angelica Jade Bastién, pop culture critic, New York Magazine

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Episode Overview

Wesley Morris dives deep into the sleeper horror hit Obsession with guest critic Angelica Jade Bastién. The conversation examines the film's gender politics, horror tropes, generational anxieties around love and relationships, and whether Obsession is a product of (or merely a reflection on) the modern dating world. The exchange is intense, sharply critical, at times personal, and flavored by the duo’s passionate, sometimes funny, dissection of pop culture and horror cinema.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Movie & Audience Context

• Obsession, directed by Curry Barker (age 26), is a micro-budget horror hit that’s grossed over $200 million, mainly from young North American audiences ([02:00]).
• The premise: A young man, Baron (“Bear”), wishes his co-worker Nikki would love him more than anyone in the world, and the wish comes true—with horrifying, possessive, and destructive results.
• The audience is mostly teenagers and young adults; Morris notes feeling like "a chaperone on a school trip" at his screening ([04:45]).
• The film is sparking debate over who the villain is and how the cursed relationship dynamics play out—audiences are deeply engaged in its ethical questions ([05:30]).

Gender, Control, and the Horror of Possession

• Angelica shares her moviegoing experience: felt "more and more pissed off" at the film’s misogyny and the way women’s bodies are depicted as objects or props ([06:55]).

• She points out the film is "very incurious" about its female characters—Nikki (the love interest/cursed victim) and Sarah (the friend/love rival)—and largely uninterested in their subjectivity ([07:19]).

• The film plays into the trope of the "crazy girlfriend" (often shorthanded to BPD caricature) that men fear, but does not offer real psychological depth for the female leads ([09:00-10:03]).

• Notable disturbing scene: Sarah’s murder, filmed in a pornographic, objectifying way ([11:56]).

  "It’s a stunning example of how useful women's bodies are as an object, but women's selves aren't as subjects. It’s a tell about where the movie's sympathies and interests actually lie." —Angelica Jade Bastién [12:49]

The Boundaries of Agency and Horror

• The film directly shows Nikki’s lack of autonomy—brief moments where the real Nikki emerges from the curse to beg Bear to kill her ([14:27]).

  "Hey, Bear, kill me, please." —Nikki (through Angelica/Jade's description) [14:27]
  "I've never been with you, Bear." —Nikki [14:56]

• Morris notes the "encasement" of Nikki is reminiscent of Get Out’s "Sunken Place," but Bastién argues the film ultimately fails as a horror movie, lacking real tension or scares ([15:19-16:23]).

Social Media, Generational Disconnection, and Relationship Dynamics

• Obsession is symptomatic of a generational disconnect from adult relationships: “It’s a movie that doesn’t understand relationships beyond a certain developmental point... the imagination barrier is graduation" ([20:16]).
• Dating dynamics are shaped and distorted by technology and social media; a generational tendency to avoid risk and vulnerability is highlighted ([21:41]).
• Bastién sees a "value towards being an introvert who's bedrotting and not connecting" among younger people, but the film never digs into Bear's actual psychology ([21:47]).
• Both agree the film’s characters are “movie types, not people”—their behaviors reflect genre expectations more than human reality ([24:44-25:01]).

Film Genre Dissection

1. "Blank from Hell"

• Wesley: Obsession borrows from the "blank from hell" genre (e.g., Fatal Attraction, Single White Female)—an unstable, obsessed person up-ends someone’s life ([27:36-29:45]).
• Iconic reference: The film’s cat-cooking scene nods to both Fatal Attraction and War of the Roses ([30:02-31:22]).

2. "Boy Makes Wish"

• Genre overlaps with films like Weird Science and Big, where a young man’s wish magically (and problematically) transforms his world, often ensnaring a woman ([33:04-35:10]).
• Bastién: “That movie [Big] is actually disturbing” because of its sexual implications between adult women and wished-up boys ([33:44]).

3. "Man Controls Woman" / Gaslighting

• Traces back to Gaslight (1944)—narratives where men control women’s bodies, minds, or realities, often leaving women doubting their sanity ([35:15-36:53]).
• Angelica brings up "Bluebeard movies": tales where the most dangerous person in a woman’s life is the man in her bed ([39:08-40:30]), underscoring how traditional horror often discounts or erases women’s perspectives.

The Root Problem: Escaping Maturity

• Both critics feel Obsession is made by and for people who haven't experienced adult love—its “adult” emotions and relationships are shallow, secondhand, or parodied ([24:44], [50:37]).
• Curry Barker’s youth is repeatedly referenced, with Wesley and Angelica debating whether he'll mature into a more psychologically astute filmmaker ([50:37-51:18]).

Technology, Avoidance, and the AI Analogy

• Morris draws an analogy to AI: Bear’s wish is a ‘shortcut’ to emotional connection, mirroring how many now use tech (including AI chatbots) to avoid vulnerability in relationships ([43:07-44:58]).

• Bastién: "You can't expect someone to love you if you don't want to show them all of you...[People] can't risk showing the truth of themselves because that's too painful." ([45:11])

  "It’s almost like people are looking for their self worth and who they really are in the eyes of another. And they can't risk showing the truth of themselves because that's too painful." —Angelica Jade Bastién [45:11]

COVID, Loneliness, and Longing

• Bastién feels current loneliness and relational awkwardness—especially among the young—was “supercharged” by the Covid pandemic's disruption of formative social years ([49:49-50:37]).
• "If you don’t open yourself up to these risks [of connection], what are your 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and onward going to look like?" ([50:37])

The Film’s Artistic Shortcomings

• Both find Obsession "inert", overly imitative, and lacking in genuine curiosity or artistry ([51:40-52:14]).

  “Too many of these writer directors are not writers. They need to put down the pen and call a friend. Y’all are not Billy Wilder. Please stop.” —Angelica Jade Bastién [51:53]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On gendered horror:

  "For me, it is a stunning example of how useful women's bodies are as an object, but women's selves aren't as subjects." —Angelica Jade Bastién [12:49]

• On the missing psychology of Bear:

  "This movie doesn't seem to want to or have the capability and curiosity to...get more into how a person like Bear develops, like why a bear exists, why he looks at women that way." —Angelica Jade Bastién [21:47]

• On generational longing:

  "I think people are very lonely...But they don’t wanna take the risk of showing themselves to someone." —Angelica Jade Bastién [45:11]

• On the film’s lack of artistic voice:

  “This is a movie by a person who has seen people. Not in real life, but in the movies.” —Wesley Morris [24:59]

• On the untapped potential of horror from the woman’s perspective:

  “We are still witnessing such high rates of femicide that it’s honestly scary to date as a woman...Horror as a genre doesn't return to those fears from the women's perspective.” —Angelica Jade Bastién [39:08-40:30]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:00] – Obsession’s premise, box office, and audience profile
• [05:45] – Introduction of Angelica Jade Bastién
• [06:55] – Angelica's viewing experience; generational gender politics
• [11:48] – Sarah’s murder and film’s treatment of women’s bodies
• [14:27-14:56] – Nikki’s autonomy and the horror of the wish
• [16:17] – “Sunken Place”/Get Out comparison
• [21:41] – Generational divides, social media’s effects on intimacy
• [27:36] – Blank from Hell genre discussion
• [33:04] – Boy Makes Wish genre; parallels with Big, Weird Science
• [35:15] – Man Controls Woman/Gaslighting
• [39:08] – Bluebeard movies and dangers of intimate relationships
• [43:07] – AI, avoidance, and vulnerability in modern love
• [49:49] – The COVID effect on connection and youth
• [51:53] – Critique of modern horror and directorial craftsmanship

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Tone and Flow

The episode’s tone is direct, thoughtful, occasionally biting, and often deeply personal. Both critics approach the film from a combination of film-historical, psycho-social, and ethical perspectives, weaving in references from classic horror to contemporary relationship data. The effect is a conversation that is as rich in cultural critique as it is in cinematic insight.

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Summary Takeaway

Cannonball’s conversation about Obsession does more than critique the film's gendered horror; it becomes a mirror for the anxieties and disconnects of a generation struggling to make meaningful connections. Both guests find the film conceptually rich but emotionally and artistically shallow—more a symptom of societal and generational malaise than a true exploration of it. Their wish: a horror movie with more curiosity about its characters, less reliance on tropes, and deeper empathy for the realities of love and loss.

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Transcript

[A]

This podcast is supported by Neon and the film the Christophers from Academy Award winning director Steven Soderbergh. The Christophers stars Ian McKellen and Mikaela Cole as painters facing off over an art world forgery in an escalating game of playful, psychological cat and mouse. Nick Shager of the Daily beast raves, Ian McKellen is superb and calls the Christophers a front to back delight. And further proof that Soderbergh remains one of American cinema's most adventurous auteurs. The the Christophers is now available everywhere you rent or buy movies.

[B]

Hey, before we start this week's episode, I just wanted to let you know that Cannonball, we're gonna do our first live show and we're gonna do it at the Tribeca Festival this year. And I'm gonna be on stage with Cynthia Nixon, that Cynthia Nixon. And we're gonna talk about some great art about New York City. And that's gonna happen on Friday, June 12th at 6pm I'll say it again, Friday, June 12th at 6pm and you can get your tickets right now as I speak@tribeca film.com audio. That's Tribeca film.com audio. Can't wait to see you there. Please come join us. I'm wesley morris and this is is cannonball. Today I got the magic stick. Obsession. You only get one wish. I wish Nikki Freeman loved me more than anyone in the entire world. It is the sleeper movie of the year. It's been out for like a month now, and the phenomenon of it is as much a thing as the movie itself. And this thing cost almost nothing to make. And so far it's made more than $200 million around the world, most of it. Most of it coming from North American money. The premise is pretty straightforward, but also pretty American. Just part of the point.

[C]

Sometime. Nikki, wait. I was gonna ask you. What?

[B]

I lost my train of thought.

[D]

I hate.

[B]

What else? A guy makes a wish in a toy magic stick for a girl he's got a crush on at his job. And the wish is for her to love him more than she loves anybody else. And you know what?

[C]

I love you. Song, song, song, song.

[B]

So much he does real hard. A love only the branch of a

[C]

willow tree could conjure.

[B]

She won't let him out of her sight or near another person. And every time he tries to leave the house because suddenly she's there all the time. She weeps or screams, I love you. Pees herself. You know, I'm not. I'm laughing, but I'm not laughing. That is the horror of this film. A woman is cursed to be enslaved to a boy who just couldn't bring himself to tell her that he's caught feelings for her. The movie, I mean, it's more interesting than it is satisfying as filmmaking or storytelling, but in its way, it's also a good time. And you know, the writer and director is a guy named Curry Barker. He started out on YouTube and he's got a background in sketch comedy. And, and I just read somewhere that he got an eight figure offer for his next movie, sight unseen. There's no script, there's no nothing. He just, he didn't have to pitch it because he just got it like that right now. And he's only 26. I would actually put the average age of my seatmates, a mostly sold out show on a Wednesday afternoon. Even younger than Curry Barker, I'd say. At about the 11th grade, I actually felt like. I felt like I was chaperone in a school trip. And the screaming and the mass cringing, it just kind of made the movie mean more as an experience. And afterward I was honestly, I was like deeply touched by the sight of my fellow moviegoers clogging the bathroom entrance because, you know, they do that. But they were talking about what a blast some of them had just had and who the villain is in this thing and how messed up it is what happens to this woman. Her name is Nikki, by the way. And it's not just that people are connecting to obsession. It sounded to me like they were arguing over the relationships and who's good and bad. I loved that. But I'm also wondering whether this thing is worth an argument. My guest today is Angelica Jade Bastien, a pop culture critic for New York magazine who writes a lot about movies. And she really understands horror as a genre and, and is the kind of critic who just comes right out and says what's on her mind. She has a lot of feelings about Obsession's depiction of relationships and I really just wanted to talk through those feelings with her. So here we go. And if it's not obvious already, we are going to talk about every nook and cranny of this movie. Angelica Jade Bastien, welcome to Cannonball.

[C]

Thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be on the show.

[B]

Well, I'm really thrilled to have you here. I have been reading your criticism for a long time and I'm now proud and thrilled to be able to talk about this movie with you. I'm curious about a what your moviegoing experience was like. And what you experienced leaving this movie?

[C]

Well, I saw it at the wonderful Music Box here in Chicago. Oh, whoa. Amazing theater. Love. My favorite rep theater here. And my boyfriend and I saw Obsession opening weekend there, and it wasn't super packed. It's been interesting to see how the film is doing even better in its third week. But the audience was definitely game. Definitely younger than me and my boyfriend, who were both in our late 30s. And it was really fascinating experience because I could feel myself getting more and more pissed off. And my boyfriend had a completely different read of the movie and he enjoyed it. I admittedly, I feel like as I've gotten older, I thought misogyny pissed me off. I thought that seeing women's bodies used as objects was already, like, annoying and galling to me. But there's something about entering an era as a woman in which you're hyper aware that people do not value you. And I've just noticed I'm, like, far more sensitive to misogyny, which I think everybody should be.

[B]

Right? Sure.

[C]

And so watching the movie, it is very aware of the conversations we're having around young people and younger generations and how they function in relationships and how certain not great dynamics in dating have been supercharged and heightened by online dating and just how we relate to each other in the modern time. And so there's that track with regards to, like, incels and male entitlement. But I found it a very incurious movie. And for me, the tell is the women, both the character Nikki and the character Sarah, and how they're treated and the way their bodies are used, shot, and negotiated with within the narrative itself.

[B]

So let's talk about Nikki and Sarah and just how they are functioning in the sort of formal universe of this movie. You know, when the movie starts, we are watching the main character. His name is Baron and everybody calls him Bear, and he has a crush on his coworker Nikki, his old high school classmate, and makes this wish. The wish is, I wish Nikki loved me more than anybody in the whole fucking world is the wish. The wish comes true. And there's Sarah, who is his other high school classmate. They all work together at this music shop store that Sarah's father owns. And Sarah has a crush on. On Baron, Bear. And so what you've got is a woman, one woman, Sarah, who has a crush on this guy, and another woman who has been sort of essentially enslaved to him.

[C]

Yeah, it's very interesting watching the movie because something kept rattling in the back of my head that I think only I Clarified for myself recently in writing notes and really thinking through the movie again, as someone who's actually diagnosed with borderline personality disord, I think sometimes this movie feels like a caricature of the BPD crazy girlfriend that every man is apparently so afraid of. And the version of love that Bear desires is similar to the version of love I think a lot of men, not just young men, but men in general, have been sold, which is their version of love is to have a woman who is easily manipulated, always is open to what they need and their desires, but has little desires of her own. She's less a sentient being than a vehicle for care.

[B]

Yes, yes, yes.

[C]

And there's a few moments that I think are so, so telling. Thinking about who the movie is most curious about and where characters fall into complete caricature.

[B]

Right. Talk to me about one of those. Like, what's one?

[C]

One for me that really jumps out is the sequence involving Sarah and her death. So Bear is in the car with Sarah. He has now sneaked out of his home and him and Sarah are having a conversation about Nikki. And you know, Sarah says, I think you deserve someone more chill. And he's like, like you. And soon after that, you can see,

[B]

you can see through the window of the car, the driver's side window.

[C]

Somebody's coming, somebody's coming. And which is very obvious. The filmmaking language is similar to the kind of scene you would expect before, like a car is crashed.

[B]

Angelica, hold up though, hold up, though. I mean, I gotta give it to Curry Barker here because even though I understand the film language, it's really just about how fast you talk. Right, right. And she came out of nowhere as far as I'm concerned. I'm saying you could see through the driver's side window, but you can't really see through the driver's side window. Like she just. Nikki's just there and like, it's not just that she's there. She has broken the window with a brick, positioned the brick on the steering wheel, has grabbed Sarah's head and is banging the head into the brick she's holding on the steering wheel. I was. That's the only time I jumped one time in this movie. And it was a legit jump scare anyway. Go on.

[C]

Poor, poor Sarah. Crushing on the wrong man. Been there,

[B]

we all been there, lady.

[C]

And so soon after, you see a brief but notable shot of Sarah's body, obviously her bludgeoned, caved in face. And she's completely naked and her legs are spread. You can tell though, she's It's a porny shot. It's a very porny shot. And it's just so jarring, especially as things are continuing to escalate to their conclusion. And it's a shot that doesn't need to be in the movie. Like, what is it actually adding to this story?

[B]

What is it actually adding in general,

[C]

besides, you know, to be provocative? A lot of times during this movie, I could just feel the energy of, wow, isn't that crazy, man? That's crazy. That's wild. The movie doesn't go deeper than that. It's trying to provoke you.

[B]

That's the vibe. That's the vibe. That's the vibe.

[C]

For me, it is a stunning example of how useful women's bodies are as an object, but women's selves aren't as subjects. It is just a tell to me. It's a tell about where the movie's sympathies and interests actually lie. And there's an interesting. Actually a lot of interesting things happening leading up to this moment where Sarah is texting Bear at night and he has to slip out of bed. And he has an interesting exchange with real Nikki.

[B]

Oh, this is a. I mean, this is, like, crucial moment to me.

[C]

Basically, before the Sarah Carr scene. Bear is slipping out of bed, trying not to wake Nikki up. And Nikki's body is asleep. But the real Nikki is able to speak.

[B]

Yeah, we should just say. I'm just gonna say that it's clear to us that whatever this wish is has kind of encased Nikki. And occasionally on two occasions before this moment that we're about to talk about, Nikki has snapped out of the encasement and she doesn't know what's going on. It's like she's suddenly in a room that she doesn't understand why she's in. And then the wish sort of takes back over. And so now here we are. Bear's about to sneak off and, like, talk to Sarah about this news. Sarah needs him to know. And Nikki is still in bed asleep, but she wants Wakes up and says,

[C]

hey, Bear, kill me, please. Yes, she's begging to die. And their exchange is really interesting because she points something out after he says, what would be so bad? What's so bad about being with me? Your response to a woman. Okay, Bear. But what she says after, I think is really telling. I've never been with you, Bear.

[B]

Right.

[C]

The movie is obviously aware that what Bear is doing is horrifying. And what Nikki is experiencing is one of the most stark examples of a woman's autonomy being stolen from her. It's interesting because I interpreted it as Nikki herself is aware of what's going on in there.

[B]

Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

But she can't do anything. And she continues to beg for him to kill her while he slinks into the shadows. And then you have the next scene with Sarah. And so the movie wants to do two things. It wants to acknowledge the horror Nikki is in without developing her interiority, but it also wants to frame. Bear is really put upon by this situation. So it's trying to create a sympathy for him. That's why I think it gets stuck in the morass of crazy girlfriend territory rather than where the real horror is.

[B]

But, I mean, I think that what's. I mean, there's something fascinating to me about the encasement situation, you know, the fact that this woman is trapped inside this fantasy. And what I thought about as you're laying this out is the Sunken Place. Right.

[C]

Oh, this movie is so aware of Get Out. I mean, quite pretty explicitly.

[B]

Pretty explicitly.

[C]

Quite explicitly, I would say. But this is, in my opinion, a failure as a horror movie because I don't even think it creates good tension or scares in that regard.

[B]

Yeah, I think that one of the. I think there's a really fascinating scene that kind of gets at both the tension and lack of tension in this movie. And it makes a really surprising choice. One of the. Where Baron's For Our Purpose, his best friend, this guy named Ian.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Is having this party. Everybody's coming over to Ian's house to hang out one night. And Nikki, you know, it's not like. The interesting thing to me is, like, Nikki doesn't have a. The wish, doesn't have a setting for being in public with other people. Nikki is her full self, the way she is with Baron at this party. But what's interesting is that at some point during this scene, she stands up and she's extremely uncomfortable. She makes everyone else uncomfortable because she's so intense. And she stands up and she reads. She does what seems like a recital of something. She claims it's a story she's working on, but it's very explicit.

[C]

I would call it Hansel and Gretel. Fuck fiction.

[B]

Yes. It's an incest story between Hansel and Gretel. Right, right, right.

[C]

Yeah. And there's like a part where she says, like, as you know, the Gretel character, that even if they don't, like, have actual sex, that she will take some of his flesh, roll it up and put it inside of her. He's gonna be inside of her somehow. And of course, everyone around her at this party is like, okay, no, some. What is going on? What is this? She's already, you know, laughing in a way that feels, like, very extra. And everybody is so uncomfortable looking at her, looking at Bear and trying to figure out, like, what is. What. What is this? This has, like, completely changed the vibes of the party. Basically. The vibes become very rancid.

[B]

This is the thing. I mean, you know, ordinarily in a movie like this, you would. No one else would know what's happening here. It would be Baron telling everybody else what's happening and no one else witnessing what's happening. Right, exactly. So everybody is witnessing this thing, and it now is repositioning Behr's ethics, right? Because now there are people who are like, dude, something needs to be done for this person. She's suffering. She's clearly not well.

[C]

Which Ian, at one point in the movie, does, of all the people I know, does voice like, hey, it seems like you're kind of taking advantage of her. Like, something. She's not acting like herself. Something is obviously up. What's interesting to me is that the movie doesn't continue that thread of, like, people being worried about it to the point where I'm like, y' all ain't really friends. And apparently she has no one around her that she talks to on a regular basis that would be able to

[B]

clock, like, Nikki's missing.

[C]

You know, who is this person? Who is this person? We need to hospitalize her because she's having some sort of psychotic break because she's not acting like herself on a very base level. And I find it interesting the movie doesn't want to continue that thread, but again, that would call the movie to have curiosity about Nikki and who else she's connected to. As far as we know with this movie, these people only really know each other, and then that's. They don't really seem to have lives and relationships outside of this, like, tight friend group who, you know, they're so close and do trivia together. I guess.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I think that this is the reason to talk about this movie to me, is that it is. This is a movie that doesn't quite understand relationships beyond a certain developmental point. Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think that the developmental point is graduation. I think there's an imagination barrier about what any kind of committed adult love is. This really is speaking to a person who's between the ages of 15 and 22. And what it's offering them is a worst case relationship scenario. I mean, you've seen the data. We're doing a lot less of stuff we used to do, like, like sex, fucking, fuck, fucking, marry, fuck, marry, have

[C]

friends leave your house, talk to people. I honestly, I'm really, I'm really worried about younger generations. Admittedly, I do bristle at how we discuss generational divides. I think they can be useful on like a broad level to talk about like, you know, changes we're seeing. But I think people.

[B]

You mean sort of like taxonomizing us according to like Gen Alpha, Gen Z. Yeah, exactly.

[C]

Millennials. I find it interesting how essentialist the conversations become about generations. As if we're like locked into the same taste, the same experiences. We have overlaps amongst, you know, within a generation, but we're still all human beings existing in the same world and spaces. And while I do think there are some interesting differences that we can see between how generations relate to each other, I think part of what's influencing some of these differences is I didn't grow up, you didn't grow up. Having to worry about social media and your own branding and Persona as reflected online. Yes, yes, yes. I am so thankful. I gotta be the weirdest metalhead goth before social media. I was a wild one in that regard. And there's no visual evidence. But I think the one thing I will say that I do witness in younger generations, including I'm friends with people who classify as Gen Z, is sometimes this value towards being an introvert who's bedrotting and not connecting with other human beings. This movie doesn't seem to want to or have the capability and curiosity to, to get more into how a person like Bear develops, like why a bear exists, why he looks at women that way. And so I think because that character psychology is just not there, it fails at its aims. And just, you know what, Just to put it bluntly, it just pissed me the fuck off. I was just like, y' all like I am right now. You can't see it on camera, but I am wearing a T shirt for one of my favorite horror movies, Tales from the Crypto Demon Knight, directed by the great Ernest Dickerson, who was a cinematographer for Spike Lee for a long time on films like Malcolm X. And to me, that exemplifies, you know, one strain of horror I really love. And this is a movie that has like gnarly, gross effects. It has Billy Zane playing an insane demon hunting down a relic. But there's such a strong sense of who these characters are. Their psychology, what they desire. I don't really know about these people in Obsession.

[B]

Yeah. I think that the sort of social horror of this, it kind of needs the generic traits that we're getting from all these characters. They need to be more types in order for us to have this conversation. Because we're not talking about people, right?

[C]

No.

[B]

Like what we're talking about is behaviors that correspond to our understanding of how they function in the real world.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

And the problem with the movie, in some ways, and this is kind of where I'd like to go next, is that this is not really a movie about people. This is a movie by a person who has seen people. Not in real life, but in the movies.

[C]

Exactly, exactly.

[B]

All of its referents are, you know, adult thrillers. I mean, Mulholland Drive is a thing I thought about while I watched this. You know, we talked about Get Out. I think that, you know, there's a lot of, you know, J Horror, Japanese horror movies that, you know, are visually referenced. You know, there's a moment where she like kind of skitters across the bedroom with a flower vase in front of her face. It's much more interested in movie history. Vibes. I wanna take a break and when we come back, I actually wanna think about an assortment of baskets this movie might comfortably fit in.

[C]

Oh, I think that's gonna be interesting. Cause I have some thoughts about what baskets and genres and trends it exemplifies.

[B]

Okay, so. So we'll take a break and we'll be right back.

[D]

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[B]

Imagine more than 800 exquisite objects handcrafted by over 400 craft artists from 70 countries around the world, brought together and framed by light on the beautiful island of San Giorgio Maggiore in Venice, Italy. This is Homo Faber 2026, an island of Light. An international celebration of contemporary craftsmanship running from the 1st to the 30th of September. Artistic director Ez Devlin, the British artist and designer puts the work of master craft artists in the spotlight through 15 immersive installations. Visit homofabber.com to book your tickets for Homo Faber 2026, an island of Light. We're back with Angelica, Jade Bastien, and we're talking about obsession and Angelica. I, you know, what's going on in this movie is not new. No, it is received as new because we are starving, right? We're starving for some kind of like meaningful theatrical movie going experience. I mean, the thing that is very not new is that this is a movie to me that could be put in a number of different classes of subgenre of moviemaking. And I think one of the things that's interesting to me is it's not completely at home in any of these, on any of these shelves. So let's just start with one, there's three that I'm gonna bring to you. And then, you know, whatever comes up for you, we can talk about. I'm gonna start with the Blank from Hell. The blank from hell genre, you know, I'm gonna say its high watermark is Fatal Attraction. And essentially the blank from hell is someone finds themselves in some kind of relationship with an extreme person. Like a person who's just gone so far off the deep end because they're in love, because they're horny, because they're ambitious, or, you know, the blanket catch all for Blank from Hell is that they're just crazy somehow. They're being driven by some, some. Some inner insanity. We're talking about Fatal Attraction. Of course, I mentioned that. The Hand that Rocks the Cradle. Misery, Basic Instinct, Single White Female. Single White Female. So let's talk about the things that, you know, make this a Blank from Hell movie, right? I mean, or the things that the Blank from hells that it's borrowing from. You know, Bear's got a cat. In Obsession, the cat dies very early on.

[C]

Very, very.

[B]

Does the cat die?

[C]

Apparently.

[B]

Does that make any sense to you?

[C]

No. Apparently the cat is able to open

[B]

pill bottles, its own food and pill bottles.

[C]

And I was just like, okay. And then, you know, Nikki has made Bear lunch. He's at work, he's eating the sandwich, and it dawns on him. He's eating some sauteed version of his cat. And he ate several bites. He ate like half that sandwich.

[B]

Yeah, she made him kattay. And it was, you know, he was disgusted by it. But we should say this is like the movie is basically taking two Michael Douglas movies. Two Michael Douglas blank from hell movies. Fatal Attraction. Glenn Close, you know, iconically boils the bunny. Or, you know, we don't see her actually do anything, but we. The brilliance of that sequence in Fatal Attraction is the rabbit's missing. The daughter finds that the rabbit is not in its pen. And Ann Archer, the wife in the film, goes and lifts the boiling pot that she slowly walks toward in the kitchen. You see, can see it off in the distance of a long shot. She picks up the pot. Oh, my God, there's a. The bunny's been boiled. And the other. The. The catay is, as far as I'm concerned, from Michael Douglas in Kathleen Turner in War of the Roses. Nobody who makes pate this good can be all bad.

[C]

That depends on what the pate is made of.

[B]

Where the dog is missing. Maybe it's dinner now.

[C]

Woof.

[B]

And in that movie, that's a marriage from hell movie. Right. Where very much so this relationship that you recognize is now sort of something you fear.

[C]

Exactly. It is fascinating to use the cat in that way. Cause I think it sort of harkens to the fact that the movie is more interested in. In provocation and comedy than like, actual horror and psychology. Even though there's so much rich terrain to be tilled in this movie that just doesn't get that happening.

[B]

Related in my notebook, the first time I watched it, I did write, is she the cat, like, has the spirit of this cat? I mean, there's so much like. It's not quite animism. I mean, I just. Some of her behavior is animalistic, primalistic. Right, right.

[C]

I think that speaks to how horror films look at women. More so than maybe that being any kind of animism. Yeah, exactly. I think animation horror will often argue, and maybe this is actually just true of culture at large that argues, like, women are closer to nature, which means they're closer to some primalness, which means they're closer to being insane. And I think there's some strains of that in this movie, although the movie doesn't seem fully aware of what it trips into. But that's true of a lot of

[B]

things in this movie. All right, next category. That obsession, you know, is aware of, but, you know, again, doesn't quite fulfill. Right. Like It's a. But there's enough going on here that you're forced to think about it. And it's the Boy Makes Wish, Right? There's a whole genre of movies in which a boy, you know, wishes for something and the wish comes true. I'm thinking about weird Science. You know, it's a little bit more than a wish, but it's essentially a wish. Yeah, Big, right? I mean, this is.

[C]

Oh, that movie is actually disturbing.

[B]

It's disturbing, I mean, because it like think about it, but often it involves, I'm gonna say boy makes wish. And the wish in some way ensnares or explicitly involves a woman. Right. So I think the thing that you're finding creepy about Big, I don't wanna speak for you, but is it Elizabeth Perkins relationship to Tom hanks being a 13 year old boy.

[C]

Want something to drink?

[B]

Could I have a milkshake or something?

[C]

They got a car outside. You want to get out of here?

[B]

Uh huh.

[C]

I'm sorry. If I had had.

[B]

She doesn't know. She does not know.

[C]

She has no idea.

[B]

She doesn't know. She doesn't know. She doesn't know.

[C]

She has no idea. Until I guess, if I'm remembering the ending correct, when he like transforms like back to kids. I'm gonna miss you.

[B]

I miss you too.

[C]

I'm sorry. If I like, learn, I think I would have to jump off a bridge. I think I'd be like, well, this was a good run. I tried. Let's start again. Let's try that one more time.

[B]

Classic 80s working woman. It never goes right for them. I mean, you know, Fatal Attraction from Fatal Attraction to Big, which is really just one year, a one year leap. But I'm just, just saying. Yeah, I think the Boy Makes Wish is interesting because it often does involve sex. Is somewhere in the picture.

[C]

Oh, baby, it always is, isn't it?

[B]

All right, our next shelf here is man controls woman. Now, man controls woman's body, woman's life, woman's mind. He has some control over the woman that she doesn't either understand or understands but is told is not. This is not true. And so, I mean, I would begin by going all the way back to Gaslight if I could only get inside

[C]

that brain of yours and understand what

[B]

makes you do these crazy twist of things.

[C]

Gregory, are you trying to tell me I'm insane? Oh, I was of course gonna reference that movie. So I'm so glad you brought up. I'm guessing the 1944 version with Ingrid Bergman.

[B]

Oh, yes, Charles Boyer telling Ingrid Bergman that, like. No, these. These. These gas lamps are not trying to poison you. I hope you're not starting to imagine things again.

[C]

You're not, are you, Paula? Of course I'm not.

[B]

You're fine. This is your imagination. But she's convinced that this is what is happening. And he's like, ma', am, you are incorrect. This is not what is happening. I love you. I would never try to kill you.

[C]

That very, very French man. It's fascinating, actually, to think about the genre of, you know, women controlled by men who are, like, gaslighting them or keeping them in the dark about their, like, how controlled they are. You know, there's science fiction examples like ex machina from 2014, obviously.

[B]

Go back to your room.

[C]

If I do,

[B]

are you ever gonna let me out? I was gonna go up to. Hold on, passengers. Aurora, I don't want to lose you.

[C]

I don't care. I don't care what you want. I don't care why you woke me up. You took my life. Oh, wow. Yeah. But I wanted to point out, just briefly, the Trend in the 1940s and 1950s of Bluebeard movies in which, you know, women were gaslit, controlled, and slowly thinking they were losing their minds because of how terrible things are. And Bluebeard is by far one of my favorite. I'm like, a huge, huge fan of Angela Carter's retelling the Bloody Chamber. But, like, watching this movie, I was thinking, like, can you just lay out

[B]

the plot for me, please?

[C]

Sure. So Bluebeard is a fairy tale about a very young woman who gets married to an incredibly rich older man who has a Bluebeard and is known as Bluebeard. And part of his reputation is that he has a trail of dead wives behind him. And so she moves into his grand estate, and he's like, here are the keys to my kingdom, but there is one key and one door you cannot use. And so, of course, her curiosity about the man who is in her bed, who she has bound her life to, leads her to open that door and see all the bodies of his dead wives. And, of course, he discovers what he feels like is a boundary cross of her learning who he really is. And he almost kills her, but she's saved by her family. And it takes different shapes. I think the way Angela Carter does it is very moving because it's a mother daughter story more than anything. And so the way classic Hollywood did it in the women's picture genre was to show in different settings, sometimes modern, sometimes not.

[B]

How women, the modern Ones are a trip, though, because they really are.

[C]

And I'm talking about movies like, you know, My Name Is Julia Ross, Suspicion, Sleep, My Love. You know, these films demonstrate a very real fear that the most dangerous person in your life as a woman is the man in your bed.

[B]

Yep. Yep. I mean, yes.

[C]

And so it's fascinating to think of these movies in relation to obsession because obsession is really showing a fear that these men have made of, like, the crazy girlfriend who's gonna destroy your life and how the cost of loving a woman like that is to have your life completely cratered. But the fear that the women are dealing with in these Bluebeard movies are representing a very real, real dynamic in life, which is that for as far as we've come with technology and culture and how we discuss things, we are still witnessing such high rates of femicide that it's honestly scary to date as a woman. Men are afraid that women will undermine them or talk over them. Women are afraid that they will die if they go on a date. It's why you text your friends, hey, girl, I'm going to be here with this person at this time. If you don't hear from me, you know, please, like, that's where I am.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

You know, please check. You know, check on some things. And it's fascinating to me that horror as a genre doesn't return to those fears from the women's perspective. Because that's why, like, watching Obsession, all I kept thinking was, man, I need someone to do this movie. But from Nikki's perspective, or even from a female friend's perspective, you're watching your friend lose herself in a lot of ways.

[B]

Right. The female friend. But what's interesting about obsession is I would have loved to have seen, even with everybody being a superman as they are in this film, I would have loved for there to have been a line that goes more intimately from Nikki to Sarah. But they are adversaries the entire movie in some way. They're not friends.

[C]

They're not.

[B]

And this man has sort of been positioned between them and he's a pole around which they sort of operate.

[C]

Exactly. It's also interesting. Sarah has information that Bear didn't have.

[B]

Right, right.

[C]

Which is why.

[B]

And that's why she has to die. I mean, in the blank from hell genre, she's gotta die because she knows things.

[C]

Exactly. And one of the things the group knows that Bear doesn't know is that Ian and Nikki had some sort of sexual relationship going on. And it's interesting that Nikki's feeling Actual, real feelings towards Bear, which is probably more like, you know, oh, you're my friend. I care about you. But I have no romantic feelings. It's something that's not communicated by Nikki at any point before, obviously, this transformation, possession. But it's something that's put in the mouth of other characters. And there's something fascinating about that because it means we have no real read on how she feels about him.

[B]

Well, it's interesting that you put this this way, because there is that moment where before he breaks the willow that becomes the wish, she's sitting there outside the car and she asks him, do you like me? You can tell me. Now is the moment to tell me. Cause I am moving away. Do you like me or not? And he's like, ugh, I'm good. I think we're all.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

I'm just like, friends.

[C]

I'm so sad, I'm bare. And I'm just so nice. And I deserve everything I want. And the only thing I really want is her.

[B]

Right. But interestingly, he can't use his words. I mean, you just said more than he ever does.

[C]

Yeah, that's true.

[B]

I think, you know, the cheating to get it brings up a whole other sort of. It's not even a movie genre bucket. It's sort of. This is the part where, like, real life kind of bleeds into this, into this zone. Because that, you know, make a wish. That make a wish toy to me is the cheat that feels generational to me, which is, you know, he can't say what he wants, so he just wishes the cosmos. I mean, I'm gonna say the cosmos to make it happen. And I thought the whole time I watched this movie about AI. I thought about the ways in which you can tell Claude, ask Claude, make Claude. And what I'm really interested in is, like, these shortcuts, right? Letting someone else do the work for you. And that being part of the way life is experienced. This is an enhancement, this wish situation. But, I mean, the movie. I think the cautionary dimension of this film is really about directness in some ways. The whole sticking point of the movie is Baron can't declare anything. He can't articulate what he wants to the person from whom he wants it. The opening scene is him giving this huge John Cusack level, say anything style, hold the boombox over your head speech. But he's giving it to a waitress at a restaurant who doesn't know him. And, I mean, if I'm giving the movie credit for something, it is for concluding that this guy probably would have been better off just taking the risk and saying, giving the speech that opens the movie, finding some way to give that to Nikki.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, making Curry Barker, the director of this film, a lot less wealthy at this point because you'd have had a short film and not this, you know, hundred minute box office behemoth.

[C]

Yeah. I think we're in a moment where people are very hungry for connection. I think people are very lonely and we are seeing it definitely in younger generations, acutely. But they don't wanna take the risk of showing themselves to someone. You can't expect someone to love you if you don't wanna show them all of you. And so it's less that people seem to want a true, embodied, loving relationship so much as the most pleasing mirror to themselves. It's almost like people are looking for their self worth and who they really are in the eyes of another. And they can't risk showing the truth of themselves because that's too painful.

[B]

Well, I mean, think about that opening sequence, right? Like, you know, we're watching. The way it's framed is that Bear is looking, you know, just past the camera, but at someone on the other side of this diner table and we don't know who it is. And he is again saying, I'm coming apart, I'm falling apart. I'm not right. You. We can say now that it's Nikki. You are the person who was nicest to me when I came back home after presumably being away at college, and I would choose you over everybody. And when he's done the speech and we get the reverse shot of the person he's talking to and it's the waitress at the diner, there's a conversation among the three of them, the waitress, Ian, the friend, and Bear, about how disgusting what he just said was. Right. The two boys are nauseated. Oh, my God, that was so gross, dude. I just was so vulnerable right now and, ugh, I couldn't say that to her. Nikki would hate that. And the waitress is like, I don't know, give her some flowers.

[C]

Which I was like, yeah, yeah, but if you want someone to love you, baby, you gotta be vulnerable. Like, what kind of relationship are people expecting?

[B]

But this is where I think we are. I think this is. I mean, it's funny because I don't know if you're watching, you know, Euphoria just ended.

[C]

Mm.

[B]

There's the second season of Beef, which I don't know if you've watched any of, but basically I'll sum it up for you?

[C]

Please do.

[B]

There's a young couple played by Cailee Spaeny and Charles Melton. Charles Melton. And they're kind of cosplaying adult relationship. Right. A lot of it is, like, these expectations of what they've heard a man and a woman who are gonna be married are supposed to do. And there's a real. You know, relationships on Euphoria are inherently cataclysmic. They're completely combustible, and the friendships aren't even real on that show, as it turns out. And so I just. I don't know. We're at a really interesting moment where I think we're looking for guidance about how to be the person who gives the speech that opens obsession. Right. Like, how does that not cost us something if we do it? And, I mean, I'm gonna just take what you said and be like, it shouldn't. It's gonna cost you something.

[C]

It does.

[B]

You might have to hear a no.

[C]

Ooh, wow. A no. This is why people are turning to, like, AI chatbots and stuff to create partners. And it's both men and women. And it's been fascinating to watch. I think sometimes we focus a lot on, like, how men are dealing, you know, with the loneliness and everything. But I'm like, the women are just as feral and making their own sort of mistakes that I think are closing off the possibility to not only, you know, love another person, but to also be a full human being on your own. Connection and community and love, to me, is the reason why we're alive. And it makes me. And it makes me sad to see so many people so yearning for connection, but so afraid of doing the work to get it or to touch it. And I think we're seeing, you know, these sort of fake versions of relationships. I think in a lot of ways, part of this is, I think, as a country, we've never really reckoned with COVID and what that lockdown has done to us.

[B]

Oh, yeah, this is a great.

[C]

And I think that's definitely affecting, you know, someone who would be bear's age, right. Because you're having these essential years of your life taken from you when you really need to be connecting with people and figuring out what you like and who you are. I think it has made people very disconnected from each other and themselves and very disjointed from the reality that a loving relationship calls for both with yourself, with your community, and with potential partners. Really, what I'm saying is, can y' all go outside, talk to Your neighbors volunteer. Because if you don't, if you don't open yourself up to these risks, what are your 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and onward gonna look like?

[B]

This is what I was gonna ask about Curry Barker. Like, I mean. I mean, I'm curious about what his career turns into, and. I don't know, I'm just curious to see what maturity looks like for him, both as an artist and as a human. Because there's really a struggle here. There's really a real tension between what it means to evolve into the adult phase of how you relate to people and the high school phase of how you relate to people. He hasn't actually lived that life yet, and there are some people who are really good at imagining it, but I think that he. I don't know. If he hasn't seen it in a movie, then it doesn't seem like it happened.

[C]

Yeah, but also, you know, I think horror has a lot of possibilities now to tap into the very real fears people are dealing with in a way that other genres can't. But it does call for a curiosity about the psychology of the characters and also a curiosity about how the world works.

[B]

Artistry, too. Some kind of artistry.

[C]

Some kind of artistry.

[B]

Even a grubby artistry. Not this. Not a received. Like secondhand.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Pastiche filmmaking that's going on here.

[C]

Yeah, there's something very inert about this movie and a lot of horror movies today. But, you know, maybe this kind of goes to something I have been thinking about. Too many of these writer directors are not writers. They need to put down the pen and call a friend. Y' all are not Billy Wilder. Please stop.

[B]

Angelica, Jade, Bastien. Thank you. Thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it.

[C]

Oh, this was wonderful. This was so wonderful. Thank you for having me on.

[B]

Of course. Hey, before we go, I just want to talk to my passionate potato salad people for a second. We're working on something over here, an episode of the show. And I need you passionate potato salad people my PPPs to just tell me what you love about making potato salad. Like, what is. What is it that you just. You need the potato salad to do? What should it be communicating? What should it not be communicating? You got a minute to do this. Just try to keep it under a minute. I need a vertical video from you under a minute. Vertical video. You're gonna send it to cannonballytimes.com. that's C-A-N N O N B A L [e-mail]. thank you.

[A]

This podcast is supported by Neon and the film the Christophers from Academy Award winning director Steven Soderbergh. The Christophers stars Ian McKellen and Michaela Cole as painters facing off over an art world forgery in an escalating game of playful psychological cat and mouse. Nick Shager of the Daily beast raves, Ian McKellen is superb and calls the Christophers a front to back delight and further proof that Soderbergh remains one of American cinema's most adventurous auteurs. The Christophers is now available everywhere you rent or buy movies.

[D]

This message is brought to you by Apple Card For a limited time when you get a new Apple card and purchase AirPods Pro 3 at Apple, you can earn back the cost up to $250 daily cash. New AirPods Pro and up to $250 daily cash back. Now that's music to my ears. Subject to credit approval, limitations and spend requirements apply. Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch terms and more at Apple CoAirPods.

[A]

This podcast is supported by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. They give you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place and with their collection of cutting edge design tools, anyone can build a beautiful professional online presence that perfectly fits their brand or business. Head to squarespace.com NYT for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code NYT to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[B]

This episode of Cannonball was produced by John White and Janelle Anderson. It was edited by Authority Mitchell. This episode was engineered by Daniel Ramirez. It was recorded by Matty Masiello, Kyle Grandillo, Nick Pittman and Samantha Winter. It features original music by Dan Powell and Diane Wong. Our theme music is by Justin Ellington. Bobby Doherty took the photo for our show Art. Our audience team is Katie o' Brien and Maria Abdulkoff. Our video team teams Felice Leon and Brooke Minters. This episode was filmed by Alfredo Chiarappa and Jadzia Erskine and it was edited by Jeremy Rocklin and Eddie Costas. We're on YouTube because it's also World cup season. Oo we'll be back next week. Spielberg ahead. Thanks for listening everybody.

[A]

This podcast is supported by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. They give you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place and with their collection of cutting edge design tools, anyone can build a beautiful professional online presence that perfectly fits their brand or business. Head to squarespace.com NYT for a free trial, and when you're ready to Launch, use offer code NYT to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.