Ina Steiner (0:00)

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Hosted by two of Australia's leading voices in true crime, Vicki Petratus and Emily Webb, the series delves into tales of ordinary people who have faced extraordinary, often devastating events and emerged forever changed. From survivors of traumatic events to victims of relentless stalking, and even those who've confronted some of Australia's most notorious criminals, the Unthinkable explores the depths of human resilience. The first two episodes feature the incredible story of Louisa Hope, a woman who survived Sydney's Lindt Cafe siege in 2014. Both episodes will be available for free on Sunday, November 10, wherever you get your podcasts, with episodes dropping weekly after that. Be sure to follow the Unthinkable so you don't miss an episode. Stay tuned until the end of today's episode to hear the trailer. Our episodes deal with serious and often distressing incidents. If you feel at any time you need support, please contact your local crisis centre for suggested phone numbers, for confidential support, and for a more detailed list of content warnings, please see the show notes for this episode on your app or on our website. This episode was originally released on casefile's Patreon, Apple Premium and Spotify Premium feeds. As an early bonus for our paid subscribers, these episodes are designed to be slightly shorter, allowing us to cover a broader range of cases. To receive these episodes early and ad free, you can support Casefile on your preferred platform. In 1999, married couple Ina and David Steiner launched Auction Byte, an e newsletter catering to those whose business was selling items online. The idea originated from the Steiner's shared interest in collecting and trading. Einar had amassed a large collection of books, and ever since childhood her husband, David, had been a Frequenter of yard sales, always on the lookout for antiques, the Steiners prided themselves on factually reporting the latest industry news and keeping readers up to date and informed on the inner workings of various online marketplaces. Aina did most of the writing, while David focused on the publication side of things. Although their newsletter began in the early days of Internet commerce, it filled a niche and grew in popularity as online trading became an important tool for businesses worldwide. The Steiners eventually changed their publication's name to E Commerce bytes, and by 2019, it was a valued and reputable resource for sellers on a number of online platform platforms, including Craigslist, Etsy, Amazon and ebay. From her home in the town of Natick, Massachusetts, Ina published daily articles such as what is Behind Amazon Prime? Shipping Delays and Craigslist Finally Launches a Mobile App Worth the Wait. Ina also managed the E Commerce Bytes social media accounts, which allowed her to directly engage with her small but passionate community. On Thursday, Aug. 1, 2019, the New York Times published an article detailing a lawsuit that US multinational E Commerce company eBay had recently filed against their direct competitor, Amazon. EBay was accusing Amazon of unlawfully poaching their sellers. Ina Steiner wrote about the dispute later that day in a post headlined eBay lawsuit meant to Curb Seller Exodus to Amazon. In it, she asserted, eBay's CEO, Devin Wenig, has been unable to stop a decline in market sales, but trying to dissuade sellers from turning to Amazon and trying to get Amazon to stop recruiting sellers may not be the best tactic. Days later, on Wednesday, August 7, the E Commerce Bytes Twitter account received a private message from a user Aina didn't recognise. Their username was Toohealey and their profile picture was an image of a skull surrounded by darkness. They asked what Aina's problem was with ebay. Based on their Twitter bio, it appeared Tui Allai was an ebay seller based in Samoa who was new to Twitter. With no post history and no followers, Aina suspected they were a troll, an online provocateur who typically posted offensive content behind nameless accounts to arouse an emotional response in others. The best way to deal with a troll was not to respond to them at all. So Ina ignored Tui Allay's message. This only fuelled their anger. They sent Ina a stream of messages that read, hello? What the fuck? Are you there? I'm waiting. I don't like waiting. What the fuck? What's it going to take for you to answer me? I guess I'm going to have to get your attention. Another way, bitch. Aina continued to ignore Tuile, adhering to the old Internet adage, don't feed the trolls. By refusing to reply, Ina hoped Tui Allai would grow bored and move on. But they didn't. They continued to message Ina, their tone growing increasingly hostile. You don't have the balls to talk to me. Stop hiding behind your computer screen, you fucking cunt. Still, Aina wouldn't engage. Then, late the following night of Thursday, August 8th, over the course of one hour, Ina's email inbox was flooded with more than 50 email and newsletter subscriptions that she had not signed up for. Some were from ideological groups she had no interest in, like the Communist Party, the Satanic Temple, and Scientology. Others featured disconcerting content relating to bondage cadavers and animal abuse. Two days later, INA's husband, David, received a bizarre and somewhat chilling email. It reported that a preserved fetal pig had been ordered online and was being sent to the Steiner's home. At around 4pm, a package arrived from Amazon that was addressed to Weiner. It contained a Halloween mask depicting a bloody pig face similar to one worn by the Jigsaw Killer and his accomplices in the horror film franchise saw. Fifteen minutes later, Ina received a notification for the E Commerce Bytes Twitter account. It was a new private message from Tui Allai that read, do I have your attention now? Ina did not seek out an explanation for Tui Allay's abusive behaviour. It seemed her online harasser knew where she lived and she didn't want to provoke them further. Aina maintained her silence, still hoping it would succeed as a deterrent. But Tui Allay continued to bombard her with messages like, you're a fat fuck, pussy. David needs to put you in line, cunt. A day later, David Steiner was sent an Amazon package of his own. It contained a book titled Grief Diaries Surviving the Loss of a Spouse. Tui Allay sent more messages to Ayna throughout the day, repeatedly demanding to know what her problem was with ebay. The truth was that Ina didn't have one. Sure, she had written an article about the company's lawsuit with Amazon that could be interpreted as critical, but it was hardly scathing or destructive. And although it wasn't the first time she'd scrutinised ebay's business practices, she afforded them the same degree of respectful critique that she gave every company she wrote about. Earlier that year, she had reported positively on ebay's promise to give sellers greater protection. It was bizarre to think someone would go to such lengths to punish her for holding a rather mild and inconsequential opinion. Aina refused to engage Tuile in any discourse, believing the person behind the username must be unwell. Then, on Tuesday, August 13, almost a week after Tuile's harassment began, David Steiner received a voicemail from a representative at Adam and Eve, a US company that sells adult toys online. They were responding to David's purported interest in opening a franchise store. Neither David nor Ina had expressed any interest in such an endeavour. That same day, Tui Allay tweeted E Commerce Bites asking are you there? Why won't you answer me? Many families, including mine, make money to pay for food, clothes and rent by selling on ebay. Your stupid idiot comments are pushing buyers away from ebay and hurting families. Stop it now. These messages only served to further confuse Ina and David. At the time, ebay was ranked in the 200s in Fortune 500, an annual list of the 500 largest US industrial corporations. As measured by gross income, the company had a market value of over $47 billion and employed 13,000 people worldwide. It was completely unreasonable to think Ina's non partisan commentary in her niche corner of the Internet could impact such an industry powerhouse. Even if it did, shouldn't the contempt be directed at ebay itself? Ina was only reporting the facts. If the business was faltering, then the solution would be fixing its problems. Silencing Aina might go some way to improving public perception of the company, but it wouldn't resolve the actual issues sellers were facing. Tui Allai's idiot comments remark was particularly strange. As the Steiners carried themselves like respected journalists, they didn't get involved in frivolous or petty Internet drama. The next day, the Steiners received a package from Carolina Biological Supply, a company based in North Carolina that sold science related products. They opened it and were alarmed to discover it contained fly larvae and live spiders. A second package arrived that same day, this one from an insect supply company based in Kansas. It held live cockroaches. Tui Allay tweeted the couple, ina, when you hurt our business, you hurt our families. People will do anything to protect family. Ina and David were rattled. With no idea who was behind the Tuile account, the couple began increasing their security measures. They installed video cameras outside their home, added some battery powered alarms, and reported the harassment to the Natick Police Department, which agreed to conduct patrols of the couple's home. The following day, the Steiners were mortified to learn that two of their neighbours had received packages with David's name on them that contained quote barely legal pornography. Later that day, a florist dropped off an ominous funeral wreath with a card that featured Ina's name. This marked the couple's second death themed delivery. Casefile will be back shortly. Thank you for supporting us by listening to this episode's sponsors. Here's something every renter needs to did you know you can actually earn points just by paying rent? Thanks to Bilt, you can turn your rent payments into rewards for flights, hotel stays, fitness classes, and even your next rent payment. Let me explain how it works. 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Go to ShipStation.com and use code CASEFILE to sign up for your free 60 day trial. That's ShipStation.com code CASEFILE thank you for listening to this episode's ads. By supporting our sponsors, you support Casefile to continue to deliver quality content. Meanwhile, the Steiners had noticed a black Dodge minivan with New York licence plates circling their neighbourhood. David sensed the vehicle was following him and felt certain he was going to be killed. He took note of the minivan's licence plate and reported it to police. Officers searched for the vehicle in their databases, but nothing came up that corresponded with the information provided by the Steiners. They nevertheless put out a call on police radio to be on the lookout for the vehicle. It wasn't sighted again that evening. An emergency plumber was sent to the Steiners home. At 4:30am the following night, a black car stopped outside their house. A male driver emerged and pulled out a large leather bag which David thought contained a rifle. He shouted to Weiner to call the police, but it was a false alarm. The leather bag contained pizzas, $70 worth, ordered on behalf of the Steiners that needed to be paid for. Shortly before 2pm on Sunday, August 18, more than two weeks after the harassment began, the Tui Allay Twitter account publicly posted Einesteiner's personal contact details, including her residential address. This act is known as doxxing and is a common method of online harassment and intimidation. Three minutes later, Tui Allay sent Ina a private message asking you get my gifts, cunt. This explicitly confirmed that the person threatening the Steiners online was the same one sending them unwanted deliveries. However, Tui La had made a mistake. Doxxing was against Twitter's user policy. The platform took down the offending posts and the Tuile account was suspended, preventing its use for the time being. Yet Tuilei's suspension did little to settle the Steiner's nerves. David now believed he was being followed by a silver or Grey Toyota RAV4 GMC. When he went to take pictures of the vehicle with his cell phone, it drove away. David didn't notice it tailing him again. Police took the Steiner's concerns seriously and sent an undercover officer to observe the couple's house from an unmarked jeep with tinted windows. But the officer saw no suspicious activity. The unwanted deliveries continued, including additional pizzas to the Steiner residence and more pornography in David's name to one of their neighbours. On Tuesday, August 20, the police were called to the Steiners home yet again. The couple told them that multiple strangers had shown up at their house in response to an advertisement for a week long garage sale posted on yardsalesearch.com the listing, which featured the Steiner's home address, included the message we are moving out of the country soon and are trying to get rid of as many of our possessions as possible. If we are not outside, feel free to knock on the door. Maybe we can make a deal if you see something you like these weren't the only uninvited guests the Steiners received. A post titled Block Party in let's have some fun had been uploaded on the classified advertisements website Craigslist alongside their address. Hey we are some fun locals hosting guests for an open house while the owners are out of town for the next week, the post claimed. Come knock on the door, ring the doorbell any time of day or night. Block parties will start about 10pm but will go late. Singles, couples, swingers OK. College students are welcome. Several other Craigslist posts also encouraged people to visit the Steiners home. One referred to the Steiners as mature professionals looking to have some fun at home and asked specifically for singles or other couples open to exploring threesomes, BDSM and cross dressing. On Wednesday, August 21, Ina Steiner received a comment on Twitter from a new account named Allay Tooi. The username was an inversion of the Tui La account, and Ina immediately suspected it was the same person trying to bypass their Twitter suspension. Her suspicions were confirmed when she read Aletui's message. Nice try Aina. You can't shut me down. Aletui sent the same vulgar and insulting accusations centred around the misguided belief that she was trying to irreparably damage ebay's reputation. Worse still, other anonymous Twitter users came forward to support Aletoohy. One wrote, years of lies and destroying families. Don't be proud of that, you worthless bitch. I will destroy your family and business too. See how you like it. The same user tagged Alaytui's account, asking, when are we going to visit her in Natick? Another user replied, I agree Ina is hurting small businesses with all the negativity and pushing buyers to Amazon. A third user with a disturbing image of a pig's head as their profile picture added, ina, focus on something else and stop fucking with our customers. I don't want to see another fucking post about ebay. Leave our business alone. This same user wrote to Aletui directly, asking, what's Ina's address again? Guess I have to pay her a visit, aletui replied, with the Steiner's home address, resulting in a suspension for doxxing. The other accounts were New had few to no followers and wrote in a similar way to a Le Tui, indicating they were all run by the same person, but Aina couldn't be sure. There was also the possibility that they were other trolls attracted to Aletui's drama while being unconnected to it. However, one of the accounts featured the name of a prominent ebay seller, leading Aina to question whether she had in fact drawn the community's Ireland. Whatever the case, Ina and David Steiner were so profoundly terrorised they were unable to rest. Both were riddled with stress and anxiety that manifested in physical symptoms. They couldn't go out in public without worrying that they were being followed. Concerned about identity theft, fraud and financial harm, they froze all their accounts. The hard earned reputation of E Commerce Bytes was being destroyed before their eyes. The Steiners could do little else but bunker down at home. They cancelled countless visits with friends and family out of fear they would expose their loved ones to the stalking campaign. Ina and David decided to sleep in separate bedrooms so that if there was a home invasion and one of them was attacked, the other could escape and call for help. David stayed at the front of the house in the main bedroom where he constantly watched a live feed of the property's security cameras. Ina was in a spare bedroom at the rear. The couple had set up a homemade booby trap against the back door consisting of baking trays stacked on top of a laundry cart. If anyone tried to break in through the back at night, Ina would hear them. The couple were paralysed by constant fear of what would happen next. They felt a sense of dread with every knock at the door, terrified that a killer had finally arrived to follow through on their threats. Meanwhile, the Natick Police Department was actively investigating the harassment. They had a few tenuous leads, with the most significant coming from David Steiner. He had managed to snap a photo of the licence plate of a grey coloured Toyota RAV4 GMC he suspected was following him. The vehicle belonged to a car rental company called Enterprise. Their records showed that at the time, David believed he was being stalked by the vehicle. It had been leased to a woman named Veronica Zayn. This wasn't the only connection investigators made to Veronica. Some of the items sent to the Steiners were bought using prepaid debit cards and gift cards purchased in the Californian city of Santa Clara, where Veronica resided. Store CCTV had recorded Veronica buying the cart. Police uncovered that Veronica Zay had a recent booking at a Ritz Carlton luxury hotel In Boston, a 30 minute drive from the Steiners home in Natick. The Steiners confirmed that they had no history with Veronica, but curiously, it was discovered that she worked for ebay. Veronica Zay was first employed by eBay in 2017 when she was 23 years old. Despite her lack of interest in technology and having barely used ebay's website, Veronica's degree in criminology secured her a role at the company's headquarters in San Jose, California. Veronica worked her way up from the role of intelligence operator, a security guard type role, to intelligence analyst in the Global Security and Resiliency division. It was a small, close knit team consisting mostly of former police and security personnel responsible for staying ahead of small and large scale threats to the company. They investigated persons of interest, individuals who posed a threat to ebay and its staff, and monitored them to ensure employee safety. It was a necessary measure, especially in the aftermath of a 2018 spree shooting at the headquarters of video sharing website YouTube. In that incident, multiple YouTube employees were injured by a woman with a personal vendetta against the company. As Veronica Zay had never worked an office job before, she was somewhat out of her depth and reliant on the expertise of more experienced staff members. One was her immediate supervisor, eBay's senior director of safety and security, James Bohr. He was a firm, intimidating man who wanted employees to do what they were told without asking questions. One time he found a knife left out on a barbecue grill on site and proceeded to maniacally stab a chair with it, chastising his crew that a deranged individual could have used the weapon to hurt someone. James was a film buff and would summon staff into a boardroom to show them scenes from movies that he deemed significant. In one scene, characters were executed to make a point. Another involved criminal suspects who refused to give information to police. On at least five occasions, Veronica was forced to watch a scene from a television drama in which a billionaire warned a subordinate, you don't try to be loyal, you just are. James Bore also liked the film Meet the Fockers, in which a retired CIA agent speaks of a circle of trust, his term for the small group of individuals he trusted. James would reference the circle of trust within the workplace when talking about something he felt no one else should know. James Bore tried to foster a family like environment in the office and told his team to call him dad. For James, loyalty was paramount, but he was an unpredictable leader who kept staff on edge, no matter their fealty. On one occasion, he had his employees personal belongings stripped from their lockers and dumped into trash bags in order to teach them that they were not entitled to privacy at work. Veronica Zay was hired as a contract worker and because she hoped to one day become a full time employee, she was cautious not to do anything that could jeopardise her goal. There was a high turnover rate in her office and many of the people she started out with, mostly older men, were quickly replaced by young blonde haired women. James Bore would call them his angels in reference to the trio of fictional female detectives, Charlie's Angels, who were known for being being attractive. Veronica didn't like James Bore's behaviour or the cult like atmosphere of her office, but she kept her contempt to herself. She had no desire to rock the boat as staff were fired unpredictably and for any perceived indiscretion. Female employees were let go for not smiling at executives, chewing on pens and singing to themselves during quiet night shifts. EBay's top brass were aware of the dysfunctional and discriminatory work culture, but didn't address it. The situation only worsened when a hedge fund known for being particularly ruthless bought a large stake of ebay and began demanding internal changes. The pressure was felt across the board, from Veronica Zay in Intelligence analytics all the way up to ebay's Chief Executive officer, Devin Wenig, the CEO was dismayed to learn that in a letter to ebay's board of directors, the hedge fund alluded to replacing him due to the company's underperformance. Casefile will be back shortly. Thank you for supporting us by listening to this episode's sponsors. Water Damage is no Joke did you know that water damage makes up more than 25% of all home insurance claims and the average claim costs over $13,000. Don't let a small leak turn into a big expense. Learn more@go.pemco.com Nojoke Pemco Mutual Insurance Co. Seattle, WA thank you for listening to this episode's ads. By supporting our sponsors, you support Casefile to continue to deliver quality content. Devin Wenig was a contentious figure in the e commerce community for the way he oversaw ebay. Ina Steiner often named the CEO when reporting on ebay's latest business moves, Good and Bad, in her online newsletter, E Commerce Bites, and it was because of him that her professional relationship with ebay corroded over time. In the early days of e Commerce Bytes, eBay advocated for and collaborated with the publication. They invited Ina and David Steiner to interview executive team members as well as other employees and contractors. Many ebay executives and employees subscribed to E Commerce Bytes, including High level management and public relations personnel. But from May 2012 onwards, CEO Devin Wenig started taking issue with the Steiner's reporting on ebay and its upper management, specifically when they published anything that highlighted the company's or his faults. Ina allowed readers to leave comments on her articles and some, emboldened by online anonymity, were particularly vitriolic towards Devon Wenig. They referred to ebay as a corrupt organization that offered sellers no help and burdened them with excessive fees over regulation, penalties, selling limits, never ending glitches and false customer feedback. Devin Wenig was called a joke, a fraud and delusional, with some asserting that he should have been fired years earlier. This led to an overall attitude shift towards E Commerce Bytes at ebay. They once accused the publication of being a phishing site, a means used by cybercriminals to trick people into giving up personal information. Ebay later admitted this accusation was an error and retracted its report. But the admission didn't ease tensions. Criticisms of the Steiners and their publication began appearing in the comment sections of their own articles. The accounts responsible also attacked other legitimate readers who came to the couple's defence. The problematic accounts were traced to IP addresses associated with ebay. It was clear ebay employees were creating fake online identities to attack the Steiners. In April 2019, Einar wrote an article about how Devin Wenig made 152 times the average salary of his employees. Irritated, Devon texted his colleague, ebay's senior vice president and chief of Communications Officer Steve Wimer, who shared his frustrations. They believed that Ina Steiner was purposefully getting people worked up due to the way she skewed her story. Devon told Steve that they were going to crush her. The two men reached out to ebay's Global Security and Resiliency division, specifically to team leader James Bore. In turn, he informed Veronica Zay and another analyst, Stephanie Stockwell, of the situation. The two women were instructed to screenshot E Commerce Bytes newsletters and forward them to James Bore via WhatsApp, an encrypted messaging app, on a real time basis, day or night, any day of the week. This was to keep executive leadership up to date on an immediate basis. In the meantime, Devin Wenig and Steve Weimer hired a consultant firm. They produced a report titled Next Steps Alternative Digital Methods for Reducing Impact of einesteiner and David Steiner and E Commerce Bytes. The report outlined actionable strategies that would drive the Steiner's articles lower in search engine results. One regular commenter on E Commerce Bytes went by the username Fidomaster they were a resident troll known for stirring up drama. Fidomaster posted under various other usernames with their Unsuc ebay account named for their biggest growth. Their dislike of the company spilled beyond the E Commerce Bytes comments section onto Twitter, where they harassed the business directly. Sometimes Fidomaster impersonated official ebay communications by using a distorted version of the company's logo. They also provided parody answers to customer questions directed at ebay's official Twitter account. In an E Commerce Bytes article posted in May 2019, Ina Steiner wrote about how ebay had built an expensive replica of a popular Manhattan bar called Walkers at their headquarters in California. It's probably news to sellers and shareholders that ebay has a pub like lounge on campus, especially one built with what appears to be no expenses spared. This news drew the ire of Fidomaster, who tweeted a link to the article with a message calling the bar a self indulgent vanity project that was a throwback to Internet and gaming company CEOs lavish overspending on legacy facilities and landmarks. FidoMaster called out CEO Devin Wenig by name, criticising him for undertaking the project while ebay was experiencing cost reduction layoffs and scrutiny by activist investors. Even though Fidomaster's tweets about eBay only amassed a dozen or so likes, the company's security division kept a large file on the unknown identity. James Bore and two other senior members of the security division named Brian Gilbert and David Harville suspected that Fidomaster was either in cahoots with the Steiners or a sock puppet account, a false online identity used for deceptive purposes. They figured if Fidomaster was a sock puppet, then Ina and David Steiner were behind it. Devin Wenig and Steve Weimer were fed up. In one email, Steve claimed that the Steiner's website gave him ulcers, harmed employee morale and trickled into everything about their brand. He wrote. I genuinely believe these people are acting out of malice and someone chose to let this slide. It has grown to a point that is absolutely unacceptable. It's the blind eye toward graffiti that turns into mayhem syndrome and I'm sick about it. Steve, as well as Devin wanted the Steiners silenced. The men granted the security division carte blanche to take down the Steiners. Whatever it takes, steve Wimer asserted in an email. He promised to manage any bad fallout and made it clear that the security team would receive support and backing from the executive leadership at ebay, regardless of the volatility or force used against the Steiners. They didn't care that Ina was merely exercising her first amendment right to report on ebay, as she had done for years without issue. At no point did she fabricate information about the company, attack them unfairly, or discourage her readers from using their services. Her publication was highly regarded within the e commerce community for providing balanced reporting. Ina herself had gained considerable goodwill and recognition for her vast knowledge and was a widely cited authority on marketplace selling. Still, for her critics at ebay, taking down INA would send a message to all journalists that negative reporting of their company would not be tolerated. On Saturday, June 8, 2019, senior eBay security division team member Brian Gilbert flew across the country to Boston. He then drove to the Steiners home in Natick and scrawled the word fidomaster on the couple's front fence to no effect. Then, acting at the direction of senior director of safety and security James Bore, Brian began reconnaissance into the Steiners lives. He attended a yard sale at the couple's home, falsely posing as a potential buyer to gain intelligence. He then returned to ebay headquarters in California to help devise a plan to stop the Steiners once and for all. The security team's plan was dubbed the white knight strategy, a white knight being a term for someone who comes to another's aid. Basically, they would secretly harass the Steiners until the couple feared for their lives. Then they would offer ebay's assistance to help stop the attacks. They believed this would win the Steiners favour and to deter them from covering ebay unfavourably in the future. It all began on Thursday August 1, 2019 after Ina Steiner posted her article on ebay's lawsuit against Amazon. In it, she mentioned comments made by CEO Devin Wenig, adding that he seemingly lacked appreciation for sellers desire to diversify selling channels. The comments section was flooded with messages critical of ebay. One commenter asked, how about instead of trying to sue Amazon, you just make ebay a better place for sellers? After seeing the feedback from the article, ebay VP Steve Wimer texted security head James Bore saying ina is out with a hot piece on the litigation. If we are ever going to take her down, now is the time. Hatred is a sin. I am very sinful. I want her done. Einar is a biased troll who needs to get burned down. I want to see ashes as long as it takes. Whatever it takes. James Bore and his team of six, including Brian Gilbert, David Harville, Stephanie Stockwell, Veronica Zay and two other rebate security analysts named Philip Cook and Stephanie Poppy, launched a series of ploys. They had brainstormed together, their aim was to intimidate, threaten, torture, terrorise and ultimately silence the Steiners. They created the Twitter account Tui Allay and later Allay Tui and other supportive sock puppet accounts to bombard the couple around the clock with frightening online messages. They mailed them disturbing packages and sent strangers to their house at all hours. Some travelled to Boston to stalk the couple in rented vehicles. They monitored Natick police's radio communications and when they heard messages about the car they were in, they returned it and rented a new one. One time, they paused to their surveillance upon noticing an undercover officer in an unmarked Jeep was keeping an eye on the couple's home. Another time, the Steiners reported the licence plate details of a Dodge minivan the group were in. But the couple were off by one letter, preventing a positive ID. The eBay group plotted to put a tracking device on the Steiner's car and even practiced doing so, but were thwarted by the couple parking in their garage. David Harville purchased tools and rubber gloves so he could break into the Steiner's garage, but the plan ultimately fell through. The group had other ideas that didn't come to fruition, including ordering the Steiners an exotic dancer and sending a coffin to their home. They covered their tracks by registering for a software development conference in Boston that they never intended to attend, giving them a reason to be in the area. The team also used encrypted messaging apps and email accounts, laptops with undetectable IP address, burner phones and prepaid debit cards. They also created a dossier on the Steiners, falsely accusing them of being persons of interest for threats they made against ebay and its executive management. The document was to be given to police if the group was compromised, to discredit the Steiners and make them appear dangerous, thus defaming their reputations and credibility. After Natick police identified Veronica Zay and discovered her connection to ebay, they sought to interview her, but when they called Veronica's cell phone, James Boar answered. He lied, telling police that he was Veronica's husband and that all questions for her could be directed to him. Following the call, James drove Veronica to the airport to flee. Massachusetts police then reached out to ebay directly via an email account that happened to be overseen by Brian Gilbert, one of the conspirators. Bryant travelled to Natick to speak with authorities in person, telling them that ebay had no involvement in the intimidation or threats perpetrated against the Steiners. He even brazenly offered ebay's assistance to investigate the matter. However, the conspirators were starting to suspect that the jig was up. They reconvened in a conference room at ebay's headquarters to discuss their next steps. James Bore ordered his team not to talk to anyone and to keep the names of CEO Devin Wenig and Senior VP Steve Wimer out of all conversations. Whenever police called any of the staff members for further enquiries, the conversation was put on loudspeaker so everyone could listen in and maintain a consistent story. Stephanie Pop posted five new tweets from one of the accounts used to harass the Steiners to give the illusion that the perpetrators were still at large. It didn't work. The entire plot was gradually exposed by Natick detectives. Ebay terminated the seven employees involved, all of whom were charged with various conspiracy offences pertaining to cyber stalking, witness tampering and stalking. Some also faced charges for the attempted cover up and obstruction of the criminal investigation. The charges carried a sentence of up to five years in prison, three years of supervised release, a fine of up to $250,000 and restitution. All seven of the conspirators ultimately pleaded guilty and provided full admissions. Their confessions, along with a forensic examination of their communication devices, provided a detailed picture of their crimes. They received varying sentences, including probation, community service, fines and upwards of 57 months prison time. James Bore, the ringleader who received the harshest sentence, turned to the Steiners during his hearing and said, I was 100% responsible for everything that happened on my watch. For that, I am truly Sorry. EBay permitted CEO Devin Wenig to resign with a $57 million severance package. Senior Vice President Steve Wimer was terminated with an undisclosed severance package. Both men denied any direct involvement in the harassment of the Steiners and maintained they had done nothing wrong. In a statement, Steve Wimer insisted, there was no direction, no knowledge, no private understanding, no tacit approval, ever. I was just speaking off the cuff. Devin Wenig made similar remarks in his own statement. A law firm hired by ebay to investigate the harassment concluded that neither Devin Wenig or Steve Wimer directed or knew that criminal acts would follow their orders. An internal investigation deemed the men's messages inappropriate, but it too asserted there was no evidence the pair had authorised or had prior knowledge of the acts directed towards the Steiners. Both men easily slotted into leadership positions at other companies with no concerns expressed about their history at ebay. According to federal prosecutors, the evidence uncovered during the police investigation was insufficient to charge either man with any crimes. In an exclusive interview with the New York Times, Veronica Zay revealed that her participation in the scheme had a long lasting impact on her life. When her new employer found out about it, Veronica was immediately fired. She struggled to find another job and had to move back in with her parents. She said that she hadn't enjoyed harassing the Steinerts and she'd often call her mother in tears about her own actions. Despite this, the pressure, manipulation and toxic environment at ebay compelled her to continue doing something that she knew was wrong. It's easy to say why didn't I leave? But in the moment I was terrified and stuck. I am so sorry. I regret playing even a small role here. If I could go back in time and prevent the Steiners from experiencing this in any way, I would do so in a heartbeat. I don't know when I'll ever trust an employer again, or when an employer will ever trust me. The New York Times also tracked down the person behind the online account, Fidomaster, whose trolling had led in part to the Steiners ordeal. Some of the offenders had thought the Steiners themselves were behind the account. Despite there being no evidence to support this. It turned out that Fidomaster wasn't connected to the couple in any way. His wife was an ebay seller and he just wanted to vent online about the issues he had with the company. He clarified that he had never conspired with the Steiners to damage ebay's reputation. As a direct result of their former employees actions, ebay had to pay a $3 million fine. They have also since apologised to the Steiners. And according to their new CEO, Jamie Ioannone, the company has strengthened its policies, procedures, controls and training, while remaining committed to upholding high standards of conduct and ethics. In 2021, the Steiners filed a lawsuit against eBay, the seven defendants in the criminal case and several other relevant parties, including Devin Wenig and Steve weimer. Although the two former eBay VIPs had denied involvement in or knowledge of the crimes committed against the Steiners, the couple suspected this wasn't entirely true. Forensic copies of Steve Wimer's personal and company cell phones showed that communications from August 2019 were missing, leading authorities to believe they were deleted. However, records recovered from other participants devices showed that multiple text messages and emails were sent to Steve Wimer informing him about some of their activities. When one conspirator emailed Steve to tell him the police were investigating ebay, Steve replied, please do not do anything until I can check a few things. I don't want us to engage. The Steiners believed that Steve Wimer at least should have been indicted for obstructing justice, destroying evidence and misleading an investigation. Their attorney stated, I think the federal government is taking the position that they didn't have enough evidence to indict Weimar and other executives. Our position is that you can't find the evidence you're not looking for. They just weren't looking. The civil proceedings are still underway as of June 2024. As a result of the harassment, Ina and David suffered permanent psychological trauma and significant economic damage. Despite this, the Steiners continue to publish e commerce bites and still report on news pertaining to ebay. While they never made any public statements in the aftermath of the harassment, Aina wrote a number of articles on the case, maintaining her trademark, fact based and unbiased reporting with no personal opinions provided. I can hear explosions. I didn't know what was happening. I'm Vicki Petratus. And I'm Emily Webb. We are true crime authors and podcasters with a long history of interviewing people who've experienced unthinkable events. The next guy had this Molotov cocktail in his his hand and I just saw him lighting it. Are you listening? Pay attention. We're at Link Cafe. A gentleman has taken us hostage. He's got a gun and he's got a bomb. But he turned towards me and he had this demonic look on his face and just came at me. These stories will have you on the edge of your seats. My shield man wasn't there anymore. It was me by myself. I had no protection. We are going to die now. Who could get out of that situation? I can hear the explosions. I didn't know what was happening. It's just a matter of self preservation. Get myself out of there. We get to ask questions that most would never ask. And because of that we get told things most would never hear about. And I couldn't get my gun out. I'm sort of fighting with him. He's stabbing me. Maybe he just hit his head on the ground when he went down. Maybe he's okay. I saw that she wasn't in a very good way. Yeah, this will be difficult for me to talk about. What draws us to these stories is the strength of the people coming out the other side of what they've been through. But it was eight years before I processed what happened in the siege. There is a way. It's not going to be easy. You might have pitfalls, but you got to keep going. I'm not going to let it beat me or define me. So even though these are stories of the Unthinkable. They are also stories of hope. You've got to be the best for you first before you can be the best for someone else. The Unthinkable is available now. Be sure to download and follow the Unthinkable wherever you get your podcasts. Water Damage is no Joke did you know that water damage makes up more than 25% of all home insurance claims and the average claim costs over $13,000. Don't let a small leak turn into a big expense. 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