
Hello! It's the podcast recording from a highway in Iowa, with its three greatest loves: Myrtle, Dan, and you the listener. The order? That depends. Today, Katie and Dan get into your travel recommendations for the best eats of the Midwest and Katie's irrational fear of wind turbines, then break down the world of sports, with the Knicks winning the NBA Cup, Nikola Jokic slipping into the Wife Guy Rankings via write-in, Jake Paul's jaw separating from the rest of his body at Anthony Joshua's insistence, Andrew Tate joining the party and losing his own boxing match over the weekend, the ethos of Too Hot to Handle, what Myrtle's eating in the backseat, Frosty the Snowman's secret family, Pablo Torre's new award, the Seahawks getting two points for picking up a football, Puka Nacua's Adin Ross livestream and not understanding the concept of a bad idea, Brandon Aiyuk trying to be the craziest wide receiver of the week, and DK Metcalf running away with that contest, Timothée Chalamet's ...
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Marshall's buyers are hustling hard to get amazing new gifts into stores right up to the last minute. Like a designer perfume for that friend who never RSVP'd wishlist topping toys for her kids who came too. Belgian chocolates for the neighbor. A cozy scarf for your boss. And a wool jacket for your husband that you definitely did not. Almost forget. Marshalls, we get the deals. You gift the good stuff even at the last minute. Find a Marshall's near you. Whenever I need to send roses that are guaranteed to make someone's day, the only place I trust is 1-800-flowers.com with 1-800-flowers. My friends and family always receive stunning, high quality bouquets that they absolutely love. Right now, when you buy a dozen multicolored roses, 1-800-flowers will double your bouquet to two dozen roses. To claim this special double roses offer, go to 1-800-flowers.com sxm that's 1-800-flowers. Com sxm. Hey, Dan. Where are we?
B
Iowa. And that's all I got.
A
It's all kind of. Is it mean to say it's all kind of the same?
B
No, I think people from Iowa will go.
A
Yeah.
B
Have you been to Des Moines? And we have, and we will on this trip.
A
When is that next?
B
It's about. We're about an hour out.
A
Okay. Getting somewhere.
B
Hello.
A
Hello and welcome to Casuals. I'm already peaking the sports podcast that's coming to you from the road. The sports podcast that's on a holiday road trip with the love of its life.
B
Oh, that's Myrtle.
A
It's Myrtle. Dan Soder also here.
B
Hey.
A
He's gonna be our guest for the day. Cause like I said, we're on our holiday road trip, but we are gonna get you caught up on all the news and sports that you could possibly need. Our email if you want to reach out CasualSwithKatieNolanmail.com our voicemail 646-801-0043. On IG and TikTok, we are casualsthepodcast. Dan Soder.
B
Hi.
A
Hi. Thanks for being here.
B
Thanks. It's great.
A
I'm really stressed about being responsible for recording your audio.
B
Yeah, my voice fluctuates a lot and it's a real. It's a real bull in a rodeo situation. Just hang on and hopefully I don't over modulate. I apologize if I do.
A
If the audio sounds bad, it's my fault. Want to him. I didn't want him to change his voice in any way.
B
It's just damn different.
A
I've never been running the. The levels before.
B
It's this damn barrel chest of mine from Colorado.
A
I know.
B
Filled with air.
A
So we're in Iowa.
B
We're in Wind turbine Alley to update.
A
I mean, my goodness. Surrounded by my ops.
B
The ops are everywhere.
A
I don't like wind turbines. Have we. I don't know if this has come up on Casuals at all.
B
No. You said we talked about this at length on my podcast. But the great fans of casuals the podcast don't know your fear of wind turbines.
A
I just don't like them. It's not. It's an unexpected discomfort they cause in my belly when we drive by them and they're all around us. They're just really tall.
B
Remember when they came out of the clouds?
A
Yes. That was the scariest. It was a very foggy day and we were driving and I think it was me at the wheel and to my left and my right looked like just nothing. It looked like fog. And then all of a sudden we saw one cut down through the clouds. I said, ah. I think I screamed.
B
I found it to be really cool.
A
Yeah. So we are driving to update anybody who cares and why would you? But we do this big road trip every year through this great country of ours. We start in New York, where we live. We drive most of the way. I'd say three quarters of the way to Chicago. Stop in a town called Maumee, Ohio, which we've been calling Mommy.
B
It's Mummy.
A
Mommy. But we found out because my parents drove for some reason this year as well, and they stayed on Posers Maumee river and they were calling it Maui. So we've been. I think we just stick with Mommy.
B
Mommy's funnier.
A
Mommy. So we stop in Mommy. Then we drive a few hours to Chicago, and that's where we spend time with my family because my brother lives there and my parents. I was gonna say fly in, but for some reason this year decided to drive in. And then we drive this, which is 11 or 12, 10 hours, to Kearney, Nebraska. Kearney, Nebraska.
B
Shout out. University of Nebraska at Kear. And their full contact football camp that they have in July.
A
Are they still doing that?
B
I don't know. But I went up there in high school. That's how I know Kearney.
A
Yeah.
B
And participated in a football camp.
A
So we stay there for a little. And then day, night, we stay there.
B
I don't even know. We stay there for maybe nine hours.
A
Yeah. You know, I think a lot of people, when they plan these road trips, they do like Stops in cities they want to go to, and they spend time. We drive until it's, like, bedtime, and then we get out of the car and go to sleep.
B
And no offense to the people of Kearney, but we exchange a brief handshake, and we're on our way.
A
Yeah, we just grab a meal, watch Monday Night Football.
B
Go Niners.
A
Go Niners. And then we're on our way to Denver, which is where Dan's mom lives. We spend a bunch of days there with her and her dogs and Dan's family, who is also my family now.
B
Yes.
A
And then we turn around and do it all again. The cities change on the way back.
B
On the way back, we like to stop in beautiful Des Moines, Iowa, to get a little Bennigan's that we found out about. And then.
A
Which is attached. Attached, but not in the hotel that we stay at.
B
Correct.
A
Okay. And then the city after that.
B
Chicago. Well, yes, and then we stay in Chicago for a night or two, Then we do the full drive away. Yeah, we do the full Chicago to New York, which is about 12 hours.
A
Yeah, we're nuts. We're real sickos.
B
But it's fun. I think we spend a lot. We're both very busy. We spend time. I spend time. A lot of time. The road away from you, which I don't like. And this gives us a chance to be on the road. Yeah, but we get to have. We get to do stuff like this. We get to talk shit, have fun, joke around.
A
Is it illegal to podcast while driving?
B
We. I think. I don't know if we've ever brought that up, but it sure feels like it.
A
I know. And the way. And because we're on such, like, a truck route, they're all looking at us.
B
And I'll tell you, I think it should be illegal.
A
Yeah, I think so, too.
B
We're doing it right now. There's too many. Just, you know, the. The joke that everyone's making of, like, podcast equipment should be so expensive.
A
More expensive.
B
Podcasting while driving should be illegal, probably, but it's fun.
A
But while it isn't, I could also hold your mic if you'd like.
B
That's crazy.
A
Yeah. I mean, you're a comic. I feel like you holding a mic is like, you know, Drew Brees holding a football.
B
Hello.
A
Where it makes things. Makes you more comfortable.
B
Keep going. Keep describing me.
A
All right. So Brady and the. And the. And the producers. I don't know why I was trying to say the production crew and producers at the same. So I was gonna sound like Producer screw. Put together a shout out.
B
The Casualttes. That's what I call them.
A
They're the casualties.
B
They're casualties.
A
Right?
B
And I knew that you weren't just.
A
Making up your own nickname. Cause you figured we don't call them anything and then realized that you were just so you were too close to what they're actually called.
B
Hey, Shout out. Victor, Iowa.
A
Yep, that's where we are.
B
That's where you have the first name of a city. A first name. Be your city. Hey, we're going through Matt, Indiana.
A
On this ride. We drive through a place called Danville where we joke that Dan is the mayor. And then we drive through a town called Barkyville where we vote. We joke that Myrtle is the mayor.
B
And then what about Julie?
A
And then. Oh, there's. I forget what it's called.
B
Julie Stand. It's like Julington or something in between Nebraska and Denver. It's in between Kearney and Denver.
A
Juliesburg. Julesburg.
B
I think Julesburg is in eastern Colorado.
A
Right. And that's my sister in law, Julie, who's the mayor. Now that you've met everyone and you.
B
Know where you're going now, you know the cast.
A
We've got a bit of a rundown here. I've also been keeping a notes app. App open throughout this trip to jot down all the stuff so that we don't miss it. It's not in a cohesive order. And I'm just gonna say one last time. We're on the road and. And I'm technically on vacation, so don't. Please don't be mad at how jumpy aroundy.
B
Yeah, it's gonna be real methamphetamine, like, Right.
A
So we're gonna start with. We got some emails with trip recommendations. So I'm just gonna tell these. I'm reading these live. I didn't see these before. So I told everybody we were going on this road trip and here's what they had to offer. Eugene said, in Chicago, if you have time to go to a bar, a friend of mine from Framingham runs a bar called the Tripoli Tap, a Boston sports bar in Lincoln Park.
B
Fun.
A
I don't know Chicago well enough to know if we're near Lincoln Park. Neither do I. I know. And I don't feel like I'm getting to know it any better.
B
Yeah, we know that the Winter Market sucked assets.
A
It was really bad.
B
You guys, if you ever get to go to the Winter Market. Winter Market at Wrigley Field, it's usually a wonderful holiday experience where you Go into the. One of the oldest and greatest ballparks in this wonderful country of ours.
A
We both now said that within the first five minutes of this.
B
Well, we're very patriotic. And I don't care what's going on.
A
I'm saluting.
B
You know what? You know what saves America? People love it in this country.
A
That's right.
B
But no, it's awesome. You get, like, going to Wrigley, and, like, you get hot wine, I get hot chocolate.
A
I don't even like the hot wine. I just do it because it's what you do.
B
Yeah. Our niece gets to see Santa, and we run around.
A
Yeah.
B
And this year, they were like, no, there's a. I don't know why I said that. Like Bill Burr.
A
No, no, can't come in.
B
Serious. There is. There was like a football game, so they were like, no, you can't come into Wrigley, stupid. Stay outside. You stink.
A
Matty says in eastern Iowa. Is that where we are? Yeah, off of I280, which we are not on.
B
Now we're on 80. We're on IK80.
A
What's the thing? Isn't 280? Doesn't that mean it touch. If the number before it is two.
B
It connects with it, but if the.
A
Number before it is A1, it loops to it. I'll Google it later. In eastern Iowa, off of I280, my dad's restaurant, Rudy's Tacos. It's a very Americanized version of Mexican food. But when my great grandfather founded it in the 1970s. Your great grandfather in the 1970s?
B
Wait, what?
A
Maddie, how old are you? I'm this many.
B
I'm disab.
A
I mean, that's when my great grandfather founded it in the 1970s. That's the level.
B
She means 1870s.
A
I hope that's the level of spiciness Iowans were okay with eating.
B
Oh, man, it's gonna be like mayonnaise.
A
They also suggested Machine Shed Restaurant. They have cinnamon rolls that are bigger than my five year old's head.
B
That's crazy. Wait, she has a cinnamon roll.
A
Wait, a five year old?
B
How do children have children?
A
I don't. Wait, am I dumb? Great grandfather in the 1970s. Dude, my dad was of age that he could have been opening a restaurant in the 1970s, right?
B
Yes.
A
No, he's probably in his 20s.
B
My father was. My dad was in his 30s in the 70s.
A
Yeah, well, he's dead.
B
Yeah, but that was cause of cirrhosis, right? Not cause of old age.
A
Right, right. Right. Thank you to everybody writing in Suggesting bars for us to go to. We won't be attending. I'm kidding.
B
I thought people will go on our way. I could DD for you.
A
Hell yeah. I would love that.
B
If I just sat outside and waited for you.
A
No, I think they go in. I think dd's go inside. I don't think they sit in their car.
B
I wouldn't want to damn sit silently.
A
Too tempting.
B
Yeah.
A
Jessica in Omaha said stop. Okay, this one we might do stop at Casey's gas station in the morning hours and try their breakfast pizza. Native Iowans and Nebraskans swear by it. Promise it will be better than the Scooters coffee breakfast you guys had last time.
B
Scooters could pound sand. Cause that place sucks out.
A
It sucked. But also we might have done it wrong.
B
I don't know about that.
A
I didn't Google how to order it.
B
Scoots, I should. I know this was covered on my podcast with you, but we haven't covered this on your podcast. I got real heat for the state of Nebraska.
A
Yeah.
B
I grew up a Colorado Buffs fan. Not a big fan of Nebraska.
A
He's also currently just got named their new head coach. NCAA College Football 2026. 26.
B
If you run a dynasty long enough, you too could coach the CU Buffs.
A
He turned down some pretty big offers. Expected to see smaller offers at smaller schools the next week, and then that week got offers. CU Buffs.
B
What I like about this is there is at least one person that plays this video game.
A
Yes.
B
Oh. Oh. Usually the second round is small.
A
Yeah.
B
And they go.
A
But not when you're good. Like Dan. How long you been coaching in that game?
B
Now it's embarrassing.
A
Go say it, though.
B
I think I've played like 17 or 18 seasons.
A
That's not embarrassing. That's not embarrassing.
B
It's a lot.
A
I feel like that could be a lot worse.
B
Probably, but it feels like.
A
Kind of feel like you're.
B
No, I got. Because I have about 14 natties.
A
Nice. Nice. You're doing it.
B
I mean, you want to bring up my stats. It's not like I'm not going to say them.
A
I'm new to college football.
B
You really are. It's very fun teaching you about how frustration it is.
A
It's so broken.
B
But you know how, like, when you go to someone's house and they go, oh, this doesn't work. And they go, yeah, it does. You got to just slap it and then turn it to the left. It says off, but really it's on. That's college football. That's college football. In a nutshell, where you go, Yeah, I know it's spilling everywhere, but it's. It's still the greatest thing.
A
I was gonna put a yap here and make you watch me yap about something. I thought that would be really funny in my mind. And then now in practice, it doesn't seem funny at all. So I think instead, what we should do is share some more trip things, trip happenings, just before we hit a break. And then we'll do sports news.
B
Can you do a yap in the hotel bathroom? And we'll make it like a. Like a. A sound booth for SoundCloud rappers. Yeah, we'll make you a yap booth.
A
Yes.
B
You're taking a. You're gonna take a shower. But I showered at the Airbnb yesterday.
A
Now we're telling them too much, I think.
B
But when you're done, we'll take all the towels.
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B
It sounded good.
A
Yeah. We're not really gonna do that.
B
Okay. Right. Yeah.
A
I thought it was just a joke.
B
It is a joke.
A
Right?
B
And the Niners are on.
A
Yeah, it was just taking a long time to. But it's a good idea.
B
Well, it went from. Can I tell you? Honestly?
A
Yes, please.
B
It went from a joke to, like.
A
Well, she's gonna shower. I'm not gonna need to. And then we'll take the Dell. Do you want to do, like, a. Do you want to, like, lay down a track?
B
I've been hanging out with Sagalo, that much.
A
I was gonna say Myrtle puked. I was gonna tell everybody about how Myrtle puked in the bed my parents are sleeping in.
B
Her parents commandeered the guest room. Usually, if we're lucky, we can get.
A
The guest room at my brother's house in Chicago.
B
Yeah, it's very nice. It's very nice room. And.
A
But they're staying there. Yes, but usually that's where we are. It's at the end of the hallway, a long hallway. And usually Myrtle's crate is right there inside that room. So she, as a dog, no offense, she's here. She's listening it. She just doesn't. She associates that as, like, that's my room. That's where I go when I need. When I'm overwhelmed by the baby or whatever, I just go into that room. So she was doing that.
B
You know why? Because we were watching sports and everyone was cheering.
A
Oh, yeah.
B
Like, this is a lot. I need to go chill. Also, she loves her kennel in a way of, like, it's straight up her room. And we didn't have it put together until we were at your brother's. So she was like, I want to go into my room and sleep. So she was off just to go sleep.
A
Right. But then she. Dan goes to. It's also. That room is right by the door. We use to go outside to take big, deep breaths of fresh air.
B
Yeah. Are you a narc? What's up?
A
I don't know. And that. So that's where, like, we go outside sometimes. So Dan is. We're going outside. Dan peeks his head in and sees that Myrtle is curled up in my parents, like the bed that they're gonna sleep in in the guest room on my mom's side. We say it dog in the bed. We always say if she gets in the sheets, it's dog in the bed. It's like a little thing we say.
B
But we don't say it. We blurt it out autistically.
A
Dog in the bed.
B
We go, dog in the bed.
A
Dog in the bed.
B
Dog in the bed.
A
She's not just on it, she's in it. So she's in the bed. He comes to get me so that we can go outside to share a couple breaths of fresh air.
B
Just to really take in the Chicago.
A
Just to really breathe it in. And. And he goes, wait until you see dog in the bed at the end of the hallway. And I'm like, oh, a little treat before we go outside. I peek in. Myrtle is sitting up. She's in the bed, but she's sitting up, and there's just a big pool of vomit on the. On the bedspread.
B
She was just. She's disgusted with our love of Chicago air.
A
She had just voided the entire contents of her stomach, which she hadn't eaten her breakfast that much, so it wasn't too much, but it was all over the bed.
B
The comforter.
A
The comforter. And we had to wash it.
B
It's all it was.
A
That's sort of been the highlight. Low light of the trip so far. Real quick, the standout performance.
B
We're checking in from Montezuma, Iowa. That's what this is named, Montezuma.
A
Is he as tall? Is that an Aztec?
B
It was, yeah.
A
On the shores of Montezuma.
B
Why do they call diarrhea Montezuma's Revenge?
A
What? Wait, when I Google Montezuma, it says Montezuma's Revenge, which is diarrhea, a colorful term for travelers. Diarrhea, an intestinal infection from contaminated food or water, common in Mexico and Central America, caused by bacteria or viruses, blah, blah, blah, blah. Blah. It's named humorously after the. What did I ask if he was Aztec? Yes, Aztec emperor, suggesting a posthumous revenge on invaders.
B
Yeah, Cortez.
A
And also refers to and refers to various games and media, including a classic video game. Who says you don't learn stuff on this podcast? Seriously, who said that? Bring them to me.
B
Raise your hand.
A
We see you. Okay. Did I say everything I wanted to say?
B
Tama Montezuma. Tama sounds like a lounge singer. I'm Tama Montezuma.
A
Thanks for coming. I'm Tama Montezuma.
B
Have yourself.
A
And thank you to all the farmers. I don't know. It felt right.
B
Yeah.
A
I'm saluting again. We see you.
B
We see you.
A
We're gonna take a quick break. When we come back, we're gonna talk about everything that happened in sports since we talked to you last. Don't go anywhere. Hey, college football fans. The postseason is here, and if you're.
B
Watching the best teams in the country battle it out, you need game day.
A
Food that comes ready to play.
B
That's why. Where Eckrich comes in with big crowd.
A
Pleasing flavor and no stress prep, Eckrich.
B
Is the MVP of any home game. Smoked sausage on the grill. Deli meat stacked high. No penalties, no reviews, just pure winning flavor. So forget the X's and O's.
A
The winning play is Eckrich.
B
Take it to the house with Eckrich, the official smoked sausage in deli mead of the College Football Playoff.
A
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B
Of people in New York City tried to consider that as good as an.
A
NBA World Championship I mean, World Championships. Debatable. This is something people bring up a lot now is why do we call our national championships world Championships?
B
Because the NBA is filled with international superstars.
A
Totally. But I do think, like, I saw that the Knicks said they're not going to hang a banner.
B
Good.
A
But they've got banners for everything.
B
Yeah. The Billy Joel's got one.
A
Right. So why not just hang up a banner for the NBA Cup? In so much as the NBA cup matters, just get an NBA. No one's gonna go, that looks like a championship. Make sure it says NBA Cup.
B
Listen, I'm being a little bit of a hater.
A
Yeah.
B
Just because we're. We live in New York City. So we're surrounded by Knicks fans. And Knicks fans go. They swing wildly from lovable and cheer. And I want to cheer for the them to shut the up.
A
Yeah.
B
Very fast. More than any fan base. Because they. They start feeling themselves and they do that thing that New Yorkers like to do where they go, what a best. What the best of all time. And it's like you had two titles in the 70s.
A
Yeah.
B
Pump the brakes.
A
Pump the brakes. Anyway, they won the NBA Cup. Congratulations to them.
B
Yeah. I do love. I do really like this Knicks team. I think they're very fun. I like the history they have playing at Villanova. How can you not like Jalen Brunson?
A
And you got the Pope, who was a Villanova guy. So they've got the Pope on their side.
B
Wow.
A
Technically.
B
So that was God's world. That was God's win.
A
God won that cup. I also want to update. We did a segment with my friend Ashton Battuso the other day about NBA wife guys where she listed the best wife guys in the NBA.
B
Oh, yeah.
A
And somebody commented. Courtney Kettler on Instagram commented. I may have yelled at the podcast in my car. When Nikola Jokic was not on the list at all. He moved to the US to follow his Natalia when she came here to play volleyball. He ties his wedding ring into his shoelaces.
B
I do know that.
A
And his new shoes have a wedding ring pocket on the tongue of the shoe. He's the best shout out wife guy. Nicola Jokic.
B
Let me tell you why Nikola Jokic is the best.
A
Go ahead. You can speak unabated for the next.
B
It's not that the average is a triple double. It's not that he's reinvented the big man position from a European standpoint. It's that basketball isn't everything to him. And that's why I love him. Because we need more of that. He wants to go see his horses and his. And his. His mules.
A
Yeah.
B
And I think there's like. Do you remember when we watched that Nike commercial and we were like, like, okay, competitiveness has jumped the shark. Where Nike did that commercial where they're like, yeah, yeah, I'm a psycho and I don't love my family. Yes, but that's why I win. And it's like, well, I think you're doing more damage than good, and I think we need to start. I think that there's a lot of damage that happens in sports because of that. Like, this is the most important thing, and nothing is more important. You go, well, then it's not a game anymore. And I like it because it's a game, right? And Nikola Jokic plays it like it's a game. When he won the title, I have it in my phone where he goes. They go, are you gonna go to the parade? And he goes, when is parade? And they go, it's Tuesday. He goes. And then cut to him hammered at the parade. He goes, I say, unlec parade. I fucking love parade. It's my favorite. I have it in my phone. It cheers me up. Go Nuggets.
A
Go Nuggets. All right, let's talk about the. Look, I said I would never talk about this again on this podcast, but he lost. So Jake Paul had a fight over the weekend.
B
Boy got cracked.
A
He got cracked in two places. I believe his jaw was legitimately broken by Anthony Joshua in two places. He got knocked out in the sixth round by the former heavyweight champion. And, you know, fine, he got.
B
He finally, you know, Jake Paul did deliver.
A
That's what we wanted. We wanted him to get his ass kicked. I've been tuning in fight after fight after fight, waiting for this guy to get knocked out, and it finally did happen. Now, I said, the last two fights, I said, I'm not watching these, and I meant it. And then my husband made me watch them.
B
Yeah, I was too intrigued by Anthony Joshua. I'm a casual boxing fan. My former roommate, my form. Well, my former roommates, like a die Hard to the point that I would come home and Vaccion would be watching interviews from fight camps on YouTube. But it's recorded on a phone, so it just looks like a FaceTime of a Russian guy going like, yes. He's like, this is Gaddy Genadi Golovkin's corner guy. And he says that. And you're like, dude, you're into boxing, like, on a level that I've never ever been in.
A
Right.
B
But Anthony Josh was like, was the heavyweight champ of the world, legit. And, you know, we never got to. We never. He lost in a way that stopped him from fighting Deontay Wilder or, like, having, like, a mega fight. And so when I found out about this, I was like, well, Anthony Joshua can kick the. Out of him. The other guys he's fighting all have asterisks. They're either too old or their chin is sport. Yeah. They're just not. But Anthony Joshua. And also, people forget he lost to Tyson, Fury's brother. He. On the. On the cards. He didn't get knocked out, but he lost when he fought a real boxer. So it's different. It's just like Anthony Joshua was different. And it was. And he broke his jaw. And we all have that meme now of Jake Paul looking terrified, so scared. But all of us would be.
A
I know. Yeah. But I'm not gonna be relating to Jake Paul. Yeah, I would. I was hoping we could focus on the fact that when we came and we went to watch the fight, you logged me into my Netflix. I screamed it on algo, he turned it on, and I was like, we couldn't have done this on your Netflix. So you don't make a liar out of me. Someone somewhere can track down what I've watched, and they're gonna go, Katie said she would never watch another one of these, and here she is. I only watched the end. And I'm even more. The reason I stopped you from saying you were a boxing casual is because then what am. I barely know anything, but I'm watching it and I'm going, he could be hitting him now. He could be hitting him now. He could be hitting him now. I know. I don't. I'm not a boxing analyst. The amount that it went deeper than it felt like it needed to, to my untrained eye.
B
Well, the. The bad part about boxing is it's been. So there's just a truck on the runoff off.
A
What do you mean?
B
Like, there was just a 16 wheeler that ran off the road.
A
Oh, I missed it.
B
Still upside. It was still right side up, though. Boxing is a thing where it's. It's like boxing out of sports is like an alcoholic. It's lied so much that you go, I don't know if I trust you at all anymore.
A
Right.
B
Where it goes like, do you want to see the two biggest heavyweights fight? No, they're really gonna fight and they really don't like each other. You go, oh, I Think you guys all planned this. It's just there's too much corruption in boxing. Yeah, but you can't fake a broken job.
A
Yeah, he got his jaw broken. And that's the important part.
B
Yeah.
A
They each got reportedly 40 to 50 million dollars for the fight.
B
Man. If you're an MMA fighter, I don't know how you, how you make that okay in your brain. When you see the low level, what low level boxers make, or lower level than you. If you're like a top MMA guy, you're making like 60K versus Jesus, 50 million. And then Dana White's like, I don't know where that money is.
A
I'm getting into boxing.
B
Yeah, he is.
A
I know.
B
Because he wants that money.
A
Not the only fight we all celebrated this weekend.
B
Speaking of low level boxing, this is like carnival boxing.
A
The. An event for misfits boxing.
B
Sure.
A
In Dubai, of course, Andrew Tate got beaten and bloodied Lead.
B
Which was fun.
A
A blast.
B
Very fun to watch that guy.
A
Family fun for all to enjoy.
B
If you have a friend or family member that's into him, that's a cry for help. There's zero redeeming quality of that guy. Besides, he looks like a cool street fighter character. He is a dildo with a capital D. And if you defend that man on earth, I want you to know from the depths of my soul, I pity you.
A
Oh.
B
I genuinely feel bad if you stick up for a fucking loser like him.
A
Do you know who beat him?
B
Zero idea. Don't care.
A
Oh.
B
Honestly, if they're gonna do these kind of strange carnival bouts in the Middle east, involve live animals.
A
What?
B
Why couldn't he be a fought a bear, you know, or a gator or. You know what I mean?
A
Yeah.
B
Make it like a call like the Coliseum.
A
Yeah. Okay.
B
I'm saying if you're going to have.
A
These guys fight, might as well kill them.
B
I'm not going to watch a guy.
A
I don't want the bear to get hurt.
B
Exactly.
A
I don't want anything to happen to the bear.
B
Well, now you got skin in the game.
A
And now you're watching. Now, you see right now that's a ticket sale.
B
That's called promoting.
A
You're tuning in. I was asking because Chase D. Moore, who beat him up, is from a reality show.
B
Sure.
A
Called Too Hot to Handle.
B
No.
A
Yes.
B
Which season?
A
2. I don't think we watched season.
B
No, we watched one in our Brains suffered.
A
I know. We also watched one and we kept going. We would kick ass at this show. We could make it all the way to the end yeah, for the money, if you had to. They have so much trouble. The premise for anyone who doesn't know, and I hope it's everyone, is that they put a bunch of hots in a house, and the first night, they don't really tell them what they're all there for. They know they're there. That's how it is is casting for reality shows now. You can get so famous off of being a reality star that people sign up for a show not really even knowing what it is, just happy to do it. It's all hots. Probably like, what, 812 hots.
B
They put about a baker's dozen.
A
A baker's dozen of hots in there.
B
And they.
A
And they have them party the first night. So they all start to go, this hot's the kind of hot I like. I could make out this hot.
B
They put them in a pornhouse.
A
Yes. With all. Bunch of different pools in different shapes.
B
Looking at our producer Myrtle in the back, she was eating her butt, which.
A
Oh, Myrtle. Not on the ride, not on the podcast.
B
But anyways, back to the explanation. So they put these hots in a pornhouse, right?
A
And the. After the first night, they basically, the second day, they go like, here's all this money you guys can leave here with if you don't touch each other.
B
Yeah.
A
No one can touch.
B
You can't have any sort of. Of kiss or sexual activity.
A
Right. And if you do, money gets deducted from the total.
B
Everyone.
A
And then everybody knows about it. And it's just the. I was like, okay, that's easy enough. Watching the way these hots struggled with not kissing each other. Funny. Well, very funny.
B
It's. It is a theory of mine and others, I believe, share this theory that. That if you're dumber, you enjoy sex more. Oh. Because it's less thinking. And if you're hot and dumb, a dumb hot is. It's almost unbeatable.
A
Right. It's got to be the best thing.
B
To do because to them, they don't derive enjoyment from conversation.
A
Right.
B
Or, you know, thoughts.
A
Right.
B
They derive it from rubbing their stuff. Okay.
A
Yeah, yeah.
B
But it is.
A
How are you gonna keep us from rubbing our stuff? What are we gonna do, talk?
B
Yeah, exactly.
A
About our feelings?
B
Yeah.
A
We gotta rub stuff. We gotta rub stuff. Sorry, it just cost us $20,000. I had to rub my stuff. This guy was begging me to stuff rub.
B
Anyways, the stuff rubber beat up Andrew Tate.
A
And I love that.
B
A guy who forces women to rub their stuff.
A
Can I read you what Andrew Tate to your Point of him being a big loser. Can I read you what he tweeted in response to this?
B
Sure.
A
Because of course, when you make your platform the toxic masculinity times a million that he does. When you lose a masculine bout like this, people come for you.
B
You lose to a guy whose credit is too hot to handle.
A
Too hot to handle.
B
You lose basically to a guy that might as well call himself Yowzy. Wowzy. This guy's too hot to handle.
A
Here's what he tweeted. Yeah, of course it's long. It's. So just strap in.
B
Yeah, because he. Oh, he's not gonna take accountability. He's not gonna go. You know what? One of those punches really made me realize I might be the problem.
A
I wish I had listened to. I mean, I don't wish I had listened to him, but I wish I'd listened to a clip of him more recently because I can't remember how he talks.
B
He talks like this.
A
He does.
B
Yes.
A
No, he doesn't. No.
B
This is funnier that he does. So we'll just have him talk like this.
A
99.9% of 40. This is his tweet. 99.9% of 40 year old men with $700 million sit around with whores. That's the first sentence.
B
Maybe I'm wrong about this guy. He's hilarious.
A
I could have done the same. And talked shit on the Internet and took no risks and just lived easy.
B
Cope. Coping mechanism activated.
A
In my heart. I knew I'm too old. I knew I'd been out too long. That's why I had to do it, you dork. To face fear. I can't live scared. I have to know. I faced it. I lost fair and square.
B
Yeah.
A
Chase. Chase is a true champion. No, he's not a warrior. I'm proud of him. He deserves that belt. And to.
B
Yeah, that's not as bad as I thought it was gonna be.
A
Oh, really?
B
Yeah, it's. I'm actually. Oh, no, I'm an Andrew Tate guy. Oh, no, I'm a Top G. Top.
A
G. Oh, no, he's an alpha.
B
I'm an alpha male. Get your phone down. Why do you have a microphone? Oh, no.
A
Guys, I have to go.
B
Yeah, man. I don't know. Everything's so broken that you go, fine, whatever. Just a. Ignore the guy.
A
Okay.
B
He's just a. But he lost.
A
I wanted to make fun of him, so we did.
B
You know what? The one thing I will agree with him on is like, Jesus, he could have just talked like he could have just sat there and talked online and not done anything and like showed all of his old little kickboxing bouts. But he went out there and fought a guy and lost and was like, I lost.
A
Yeah. If I beat a guy. And he said in his statement that he's proud of me.
B
Well, that was his.
A
I beat him again. Yeah, I'd beat him again.
B
That was his way of not. That's the weak part of him is.
A
Going like, you know what he learned from the best?
B
Me. Yeah, it's this. It's the. And I think we all learned a lesson here. People love to do that. Bullies. When they get. When they get theirs, they love to go.
A
We can all learn something from this.
B
And it's just straight. No, fuck it.
A
Okay, but you first. Yeah, you first. And then maybe we'll also.
B
You're a bully. You got beat up good. But don't make this. The world is healing. You just got beat. Now go away.
A
Hey, I think we all came a long way there.
B
So 700 million. I don't know. That feels like it's in other countries. Money that doesn't make the same amount, right?
A
700 million.
B
What? He goes, that's in 700 scubals. It's a fake thing that I made up.
A
99.9% of 40 year old men with $700 million sit around with whores.
B
No, that's you. You do that. Some of us would build intricate water parks and walk around with a monocle on.
A
Some of us would actually have multiple rooms for snuggling different textures of mattress.
B
You don't think I'm gonna have a bounce house room, right? You think I'm not gonna. I have 700 million in the bank. You think I don't have a house in Montezuma island built of trans tripolines?
A
99.9% of 40 year old women with $700 million do what with it? Invest it.
B
Lift other women?
A
I don't think we're allowed to have $700 million yet. Yeah, not if Tate has his way.
B
That's too many lipsticks and handbags. What?
A
You could. One can only have so many shoes.
B
You can't buy ovens that big.
A
What are you gonna buy? Another apron?
B
Oh, silly girl.
A
Okay then. Like I said, we're bouncing around. Did you see Dan, that Frosty the Snowman? You know Dan bought me. I don't. Why? When did it become an inside joke for us? Frosty the Snowman? It was last Christmas.
B
Yeah, we watched it at my mom's house last Christmas.
A
Last Christmas, we were watching it. I think we watched it at the old Airbnb at Chicago. Oh, we watched Frosty the Snowman, which Dan, I guess, had never seen.
B
No, I'd seen that shit.
A
What?
B
It's been probably like 35 years since I've seen it.
A
Well, we watched the cartoon Frosty the Snowman and thought it was so funny that every time he wakes up.
B
Happy birthday.
A
That's what he says, because it says he's alive for the first time.
B
He's crazy.
A
Happy birthday.
B
I'm telling you right now. God, I hope this never happens, but if I ever come out of a coma, you should.
A
You better say it. And if you don't, I'm leaving. I'll sponge you down. The whole coma?
B
Yeah. Blap, blap, blap. I'm just a coma.
A
Looking for a sponge bath.
B
My brain activity. My brain activity is on the monitors, so they know I'm not a vegetable.
A
Don't turn them off.
B
Please don't unplug my breathing.
A
So anyway, for my birthday, Dan got me a Frosty the Snowman little figurine and I put it in the studio. The reason I'm bringing this up, dear listeners, is because you may have seen the Frosty the Snowman thing in the background of our clips.
B
Yeah.
A
Did you hear the story about the guy who played Frosty the Snowman that came out last week?
B
Well, he died, right?
A
He died a while ago, I think.
B
Okay. He had a secret family.
A
Multiple secret families. Excuse me, I think I saw. Isn't that crazy?
B
Yeah.
A
Maybe I'll just Google it now.
B
Man, there was just a different time.
A
What? Who? Why? What's the appeal of multiple families?
B
You're cheating, but you don't feel guilty.
A
What do you mean?
B
Because you go like, I'm committing.
A
I have a feeling I'm committing in ways.
B
Yes. I really think that was it.
A
Real life. Comedian Jackie Vernon, the original voice actor, who reportedly had had several secret families.
B
Several means seven, right?
A
It means more than a few, and a few is three. So it's more than three, I believe.
B
Okay.
A
I think. But that's back when rules applied and there was truth. Now we just say things to say things. That's what I am reading. The AI overview.
B
Oh, boy.
A
Secret families and children from previous relationships before settling down. A fact revealed by his son David in late 2025.
B
David, if his book isn't called Melting the Snowman, I don't want to read it.
A
Beneath the snow.
B
Oh, that's good.
A
Two eyes made out of coal. I was trying to think of a funny pun in time, but I didn't. I also realized we've been talking for a long time and barely talked about any sports. So we're going to move on to the next thing, which is that Pablo Torre was named Sports Person of the Year by. Awful announcement.
B
Good pick.
A
We'd be clapping if we weren't holding our microphones and driving a car.
B
That's the sound of one hand clapping.
A
That's right. So congratulations to him. Also, Elle Duncan left espn, so congratulations to her. She's going to be at Netflix now.
B
Good job, Elle.
A
Congratulations to Elle. All right, we should probably talk about some football.
B
Yes.
A
Let's start with that Thursday night football game we saw. The Seahawks and the Rams.
B
I mean, I hate both those teams, but. But what a fun game.
A
Yeah, a great game.
B
God. And it. It went the way that I needed it to as a 49ers fan, which.
A
Is that the Seahawks won in overtime.
B
On a crazy two point conversion.
A
Oh, yeah, I forgot about that because I seen so much football.
B
And the game was over. And then it literally was like at the end of the movie when a little kid finds the treasure and he goes, what's this? And he picks it up in the sand and it's like the first piece of the balloon. That's how they scored the two point conversion. It went over the goal line and one of their receivers was like, I'm going to hand this back to the ref and be a good guy.
A
And the ref went, touchdown or two point. They signaled us.
B
That was the test the whole time.
A
You've passed, Charlie.
B
Don't you understand?
A
The factory is yours.
B
The two point conviction is yours.
A
Your grandparents don't have to share a bed in the kitchen anymore.
B
That was Pete Carroll.
A
That was Pete. Jeez. He. He looks older. He looks older than he did before. Oh, my God.
B
Now he just looks like he's yelling at kids to get off his lawn.
A
He's hunched over.
B
I told you to play with your ball down in the park.
A
The Rams become the first team to lose after scoring a touchdown in overtime. Fun fact Crazy recently changed that rule. Used to be if you scored a touchdown, overtime was over. Correct?
B
Correct. Yeah.
A
Now the rules are a paragraph they read and put on the screen before you start overtime. And everybody nods like they understand, but I think most of the time they don't. The other big story out of that was that Marshawn lynch got heavily censored on Amazon's pregame show, which, of course, you've just got to know that I did a Call of Duty promo with him during the pandemic where we played Call of Duty together. And they were like, katie, you can't curse. And I was like, okay. And then we got on and Marshawn lynch was cursing up a storm. And I just knew that's because he gets different rules. He gets different rules. He's so funny. And you just gotta let him go and be himself. You cannot change Marshawn Lynch. Don't put him in a box.
B
It's the golf cart rule. Do you remember when he was a running back at Cal, he just took a golf cart, started driving it around, and I don't think he got in trouble for it.
A
Oh, I don't remember that.
B
I think they were like, no, it was funny.
A
Cause I don't like college football till just now.
B
Till right now.
A
Go Buffs.
B
Go Buffs.
A
Go Buffs. And Hottie Toddy. Which we'll get to. To in a second. I've always. Lifelong Ole Miss fan. What else from that game did I have written down? I think that was it.
B
Pukinatua fucking went off.
A
Okay, that's. We should just. Let's do that now. Dumb receivers. We have a couple dumb receiver stories from this week. Yeah, Wide receivers in the NFL. Dan, if you would, for the casual fan, give a little bit of. Just an overview of historically wide receivers. What's the type of perception of them as a player? What's the personality type?
B
They're the pretty girl of the family. Oh, they're the ones that. They're the ones that get the attention in the bikini. They're the ones that got treated with their family, with everybody when they go on vacation, they go, yeah, we just gotta. This. I don't know. Your sister was out at the pool and this guy got us a. I.
A
Hate this metaphor, but it's true.
B
They act that way and then that's why they go crazy when they're not the highest hot girl anymore. That's why A.J. brown went sideways because he got knocked. And then they were like, Antonio Brown. I think you mean Antonio Brown. Sorry. But the 49ers are going through it right now with Brandon IU.
A
We're going to get to that, Dan. We're getting to that. I just wanted you to tell people that sometimes they're divas. Sometimes they have big personalities.
B
They are. A lot of times people want to call quarterbacks the divas. It's mostly the wide receivers, but we.
A
Haven'T really seen it like that in a while.
B
There was a There was a generation when I was younger of Terrell Owens and Ochocinko. There was like a generation that was divas. But then there's always a generation that comes out and out. Divas. The last class, and right now we.
A
Got old school receivers making old school messes. Actually kind of new school because Pukinakua, who's on Isabella's fantasy team and who I'm sure she has zero complaints about because he's been putting up numbers for her.
B
He's incredible.
A
I gotta check in in and see if she won. Oh, she has a lot of guys going tonight, I think. All right, I'll check in later. Pukinakua. It's like somebody. I saw somebody online. The popular comment was he was like, speed running being a problem this week because the stories came out in, like, cascading fashion. First, I think we heard that he was trying to bring. Well, two weeks ago or three weeks ago, he was live streaming from the locker room.
B
Yes.
A
And I remember a teammate going, you can't do that. Like, stop. Turn that off.
B
And I believe also the Rams had asked him not to do.
A
Right.
B
He had done it before. And they're like, hey, just don't do that.
A
He stopped doing that. And he didn't. He kept doing it. So then the next story was that he tried to bring in streamers to the Rams facility. I believe it was Aiden Ross, a name I keep hearing and want to know less about.
B
I think it's better that we all.
A
I feel really old when I talk about streamers, but I, I, that's because they're usually at birthday parties. Hey, no, it's because I, I just am like, why are they all, like, little racists? Why are they all, like, really? Why are they all like that?
B
Because engagement online is all negative stuff.
A
Why can't anybody be just like a little sweetie pie?
B
Well, they don't. Because it's harder, allegedly. I guess it's harder to be very talented and work on your talent, like singing or dancing. Dancing. Or doing something that's like comedy. Sure, go ahead. Or comedy.
A
Or comedy.
B
But these people would rather just go like, it's, it's the age of the instant, like, 24 hour GoPuff Amazon. They're like, I want to be famous right now. So there's people that have, like, 65 million followers. And you go, I don't even know who this guy is.
A
I don't. And they have so many followers and people that talk about everything they do. But anyway, he tried to bring a bunch of Them or maybe one of them into. Into the facility. And they said no. And then. Was that the big one? That was the big.
B
Now that he was. He said he was gonna do a dance, a celebration dance when he was streaming with Aiden Ross, which was an anti Semitic joke.
A
Cool.
B
And he said he was gonna do it. And then everyone got mad. And then Sean McVeigh and the Rams and Puka Natua all were like, like, nah, just kidding. We Pukka Nuttu was like, I didn't know it was anti Semitic. I didn't know it was a problem. I'm not gonna do it.
A
Right.
B
That was like problem two of five.
A
And then he said on a live stream that refs just make calls even when they know they're the wrong call because they want to be on camera talking.
B
And he also in the same stream said, concussions aren't real.
A
Yeah. Oh, concussions aren't real. They're all in your head.
B
Which.
A
Yeah, that's right. You just can't think about it.
B
Yeah.
A
Which is like, yeah. Cuz you have a concussion. So you're not thinking.
B
When Russell Wilson was trying to sell God water in Seattle and he was.
A
Like, the nano bubbles.
B
Yeah.
A
They cure concussions.
B
Yeah. Which. Can we. I. I think in all fairness, and this is for casuals, casual fans might be able to be the people to do this. We need to be okay with that. Athletes being dumb and saying that they're dumb.
A
Yeah.
B
We need to stop saying that it's mean and start realizing that it's more just an accurate description because they're asked to be physical phenoms and that's very hard.
A
Very hard.
B
So stop making them also try to be smart.
A
I think what it was born from was that a lot of people used athletes are dumb to invalidate athletes speaking about their lived experience. Athletes talking about things that they experience, such as racism.
B
Sure.
A
And then a bunch of people were like, athletes are dumb. We don't listen to you. And it's like, no, that's. They. They bastardized it. And now we were like, well, no, athletes aren't dumb. We should listen to what they say. And it's like, well, on their lived experience. Yes. But I think when they step outside of that and go, I can cure your concussion with the bubbles in my water. We should get you, dummy.
B
Yeah. I would say that's everybody. I think we just need to start treating everybody like that. Where we go, what do you do? Okay. That's your specialty. That I'll let you talk about and won't really Push back. Everything else needs to be challenged.
A
Okay. Other dis. Other receivers being stupid. Okay. Brandon Aiuk, can you break down this story as quickly as possible?
B
Sure. Brandon Aiuk, drafted by the 49ers out of Arizona State, was a great receiver, coached up. It was time for his contract. He felt that he should make 30 million a year. Went through a really one of those, like, messy contract negotiations where they go like the. Then, then I'm leaving, then I don't want to play for you. 49ers finally break, give him the contract that he wants, which was around 30 million a year. And then last season, a couple games in, he blows his ac. There were a lot of specific, specific things in his contract to make sure that he got paid 30 million. I think he made his 30 million last year. And then this year, to get his 30 million, he had to go to a certain amount of rehab appointments and team meetings to be a part of the team, and he blew them all off. And the 49ers voided his contract. And now it's. He's going to have to go somewhere else because he basically didn't participate in any of the team activities.
A
The story this week was that he drove past.
B
He's not handling it well.
A
No.
B
And he's handling it almost like someone that has never been told to stop being a child. Yeah, he's handling it very childlike. He put up a post on Instagram that. On his stories, that was like rap lyrics. Like, like, I'm driving with the. On my wrist and I'm in the electro, even though I'm guzzing, you know, like, like that where it had to be ciphered. Like people had to decipher it. And. And then he took a video of him driving by levi's at like 100 miles an hour, which it's like, dude, you have the. You have the brain of a 15 year old.
A
Hey, cool.
B
I'm gonna drive by my ex who's playing music, and she's gonna know.
A
Damn.
B
So kind of embarrassing. But here's what happens sometimes with athletes where the fan base isn't even mad. They feel bad for you. And I think that's where 49ers fans are. We're going like, oh, buddy, you're not going to get 30 million anywhere else. Yeah. And you were set to be the guy in San Francisco. So much so that they traded, traded away Debo to the Commanders, and now it's like, I don't know where Iuk's going to go. Go. And honestly, just as A fan. He's one of those players that's so exhausting. Bye.
A
Bye. Wow. Let's go, Brandon.
B
Out the door. Yeah, it's just like, later, dude. I don't know. As a 49er fan, you're like, I don't know. We got to worry about the playoffs.
A
Playoffs, which you guys clinched.
B
We clinched officially because the Lions lost the Niners, by the way. NFC West.
A
We are getting there. We're getting there.
B
Okay.
A
DK Metcalf is another receiver. Former guest of this podcast. DK Metcalf is our third example of a wide receiver doing something dumb this week. DK Metcalf, friend of the show.
B
Yeah.
A
So we're gonna be nice here.
B
Sure. I think he's unbelievable. I think he does a lot of stupid stuff sometimes.
A
Yeah, I was pretty dumb.
B
The whole situation was someone was talking shit, in these cases of a fan talking shit to an athlete, and the athlete responds. Myself, I always assume that when. Especially when the athlete is black and the fan is white, I assume the fan called them an N word. Like, that's the reaction where. If I found out that's what happened, I would go, yeah, that's okay. But we don't know yet, right?
A
Because the details aren't. Yeah, we don't. You guys might know when you're listening to this. We don't know yet.
B
But he grabbed by the wheel and pulled him down, which I don't wear a lot of wigs, but I have for costumes before you can get out of him. Easy.
A
Yeah. And the guy was, like, strapped to his head or something.
B
Sure. Yeah. Again, we don't know details.
A
We don't know.
B
But he was pulling them. DK was pulling the guy down towards him with the wig and then let go and kind of took a swing at him.
A
Yeah, he, like, shoved him back up when he gave him back his. His wig and shoulder. I believe the man has been interviewed. I thought. I think it was by the Free Press. And they said, he says that all he did was call him by his full government name, Decalin, whatever his middle name is, Metcalf, and that he did not like that. I don't know. We weren't there. We don't know. It looked really stupid. And what I think was worse is that, like, he stayed in the game. Nobody. It happened on the sidelines. Nobody saw. Like, nobody knew except the broadcast or the.
B
Tomlin did a thing that I. I think is always very funny, which I would. Absolutely.
A
Mike Tomlin, his coach, the head coach.
B
Of the Steelers, which is something I would absolutely do if I was a head coach, where I'd go, oh, I don't even know, man.
A
I didn't see that. I didn't see that.
B
I was holding that for a friend.
A
Yeah. I didn't.
B
I just absolutely get out of it.
A
I didn't know that was like. That was kind of like, what? McVeigh. Sean McVeigh. The.
B
Oh, yeah. He was mad about it, though. So Poop Pooka just tweeted something out, you know, kind of taking like, a.
A
Veiled shot there at the refs.
B
I mean, what are you talking about? He just put something out on Twitter at the point. Yeah. You know, so what are you asking me right now? Do you. Are you okay? I can't answer questions about something that.
A
I'm not aware of.
B
He was. You know what Sean McVeigh's energy of puka was? Was when a husband comes home and he finds out that a kid drew all over the wall where he's like, in the garage putting his keys in the. In the key plate, and his wife's, like, all over your office. They drew. And he was like, what is. I don't even. I haven't even been up there yet.
A
I haven't even seen it. Can you tell me what it is on my desk?
B
Yeah, he didn't draw on the. Any of, like, the classic oil paintings I had. Oh, my God. He did. Okay.
A
Yeah, that was very much. McVeigh's energy was like. And he tweeted. And what did he tweet? You're saying he said, what now?
B
And he goes, I don't know. I haven't seen it.
A
Because after that game, Puka did tweet, like, was I wrong? Yeah, stripe's getting it wrong again. And you're like, shut up.
B
Yeah, dude.
A
Shut up, dude. Yeah, stop tweeting. And also, athletes stop going on streamers. They do these, like, two hour long streams. You're gonna say stuff that, like, you don't even really mean. You're just talking to Phil because there's so much time to Phil. And I just think these athletes go, like, I don't know. I think refs call stuff just to say they want to be on tv. And you're like, that's. Where'd you even hear that?
B
Can I.
A
Was that bass off of.
B
Can I do my segment that we talked about called Old Man Corner?
A
And now it's time for a new segment we're calling Old Man Corner. Ow, my back hurts.
B
Hey, parents, start telling your kids that they're not that Important because this whole generation grew up that we told that they were important and that we let them make all the calls. They suck. They're out here in the human. The general human pool and they stink because you didn't tell them to shut up. Speak when spoken to. Let's bring that back.
A
And that's Ben old man corner.
B
Is that an. Is that a fulfillment center or data center?
A
Everything we drive by is a data center center, guys. That's one thing we've noticed on this trip is every single big thing has become a data center.
B
America, so much data. Fulfill this order for me.
A
And Bezos.
B
Gets all the profits. Give his wife a new face.
A
Exciting stuff. Back to sports. Let's finish out football. The. I mean a lot has happened. The Bears clinched a playoff spot with.
B
The only game that could have came close to the Seahawks. Rams.
A
Yeah, Packers. Bears. The. I had written down because for whistling.
B
I blew out the mic.
A
That's okay. Like I said, I had. I was watching because Isabelle was. Is in the playoffs. It's her first year playing fantasy football.
B
Shout out. Isabella, you put your heart into it. I know you didn't really want to do it and I'm so proud of you.
A
Oh, that's so sweet.
B
You didn't even know how to check it and you were getting help from the other casualties.
A
Nice.
B
And you came through and I think you're really coming into your own.
A
Yeah, I think so too.
B
Now what? Word of the wise, Isabella. Oh, get ready for that sophomore slump.
A
Yeah, we'll get there. Let's get her through the playoffs.
B
Sure.
A
So I was writing down this note because I was like, damn, Caleb Williams not having a good game.
B
You said that almost exactly.
A
I wrote down Caleb Williams 10 of 22 with three minutes left in the fourth quarter versus Packers. As I'm saying out loud. Wow, her fantasy quarterback's really not letting. Giving her anything this week. And I'm writing down this note in my phone. Caleb Williams goes off. Goes off.
B
He goes off.
A
Jade Walker, who has played seven snaps all year, catches a game tying touchdown. He's an undrafted rookie.
B
Put it on. Just put it right on his chest. It was unbelievable.
A
He did the celebration that ruined my day yesterday because my mom kept trying to find the video that must have come through her algorithm. And the song that he does it, you know the one that they. What I just looked up what they call it. It's like not air walking but they do that thing where they stomp their feet down and it. But it looks like they're floating Cuz they go really fast. I meant to write down what it was called.
B
It's okay.
A
Old man, Old Woman Corner, Old Lady, Rooftop. And my mom kept looking for it. And the. And the song, she just kept all day, just kept playing that same clip with that same song.
B
Your mom. Mom fell asleep at one point watching videos on her phone. And I didn't want to say anything, and it was just. You could just hear the algorithm going, oh, my God.
A
It's really the toughest part of the holidays is watching the brain rot hitting your parents.
B
Oh, wait till we. My mom does talk to text.
A
I know. At least that's communication with human people.
B
That's what we think. And I'm gonna find out. She's got an AI boyfriend. I'm gonna date that guy too.
A
I would love that narrative. If Trish had an AI boyfriend, put.
B
Him on the list.
A
Like, listen, Claude listens to me. Claude listens to me. And he actually says that. The reason you don't. You're like, oh, Jesus.
B
Also, I'm Jesus. And I go, oh.
A
Then DJ Moore scored a deep touchdown in overtime to win. Rumors were according.
B
That was the great throw I was commenting on. Sorry.
A
Yeah. Rumors were that Green Bay. The Heat was not working on the Green Bay sidelines.
B
Tom Brady was pissed about it.
A
Yeah. He was like, that's not fair.
B
Also, I want to. I want to say this where credit's due. Tom Brady's done a really good job turning into a broadcaster. I listen to him call games and it's. He's. He's vastly improved. It's. He's the reverse of Tony Romo. Oh, where Tony Romo? I go, ah, shit, I gotta listen to Romo now. I'm like, dude, Brady's not bad.
A
Okay.
B
That's my personal opinion.
A
Great. Oh, and then Patriots, Ravens, Sunday night.
B
Sunday Night Football. You guys, I think this was the test where you're like, how are we going to do. The Ravens are, you know, below under the radar team. Lamar got hurt, but Snoop Huntley played well. I don't know. Travis Henry not being in the last two drives was very weird to me. Yeah.
A
I also haven't looked into why that is.
B
Yeah. But the Pats won.
A
The Pats won. Big win for the Path Pates, let's go. Pates. Brady put here Timothy Chalamet drops bars. I saw this. I didn't click on it. Did you listen to him rapping?
B
I'm joking. It seemed like they shall let me chill and trying to stack 100 million. Girl got a billion what the. What a wonderful feeling.
A
Head to the ceiling.
B
Head to the industry plant.
A
What?
B
I have a theory and I told you this. I think he is fed information that makes him look like he's into stuff that will help his popularity, which isn't an industry plant. Sure, whatever you want.
A
I'm saying if you're gonna. I can help you with your theory.
B
Whatever. Libtard.
A
Oh my God.
B
No. But he went on college game day and he broke down a bunch of matchups and that was the first time everyone was like, dude, dude. Timothy Chalamet knows ball now. I will say I do believe he is a legit New York Knicks fan. He's a New York kid, he's an actor, he's from the arts. I believe that a hundred percent. He loves the New York Knicks. The college football stuff felt too knowledgeable for him to be doing all the.
A
Stuff he's doing while also knowing that much about college football. I'm going Jackson State, eight wins in.
B
A row, 11 all kinds of conference players.
A
This should be a comfortable easy win for them.
B
These teams are 2 and 2 in.
A
The last four matchups. The Redhawks defense looks good, but I'm.
B
Looking at fourth year Bobcats quarterback Parker.
A
Navarro and that's fine. I think you're allowed to prep for that show.
B
Sure.
A
I think it's a. I would encourage it.
B
I would too. But then he did a thing where he was on Cody Rhodes podcast, the wrestler and he said his favorite pay per view was was ECW's one night stand where John Cena took on RVD. Great pay per view and one that I could argue might be one of the greatest pay per views of all time. But how he broke it down, I went, this feels like someone else wrote this for him.
A
This feels like you got the AI overview of this.
B
That's exactly it. So with Chalamet I always go, eh, I think he's very talented. I think he's a generational talent. Is acting. Is acting as a generational talent talent. But this other stuff, I go, I don't know.
A
People have really started to turn on him and we will as well if he does not return our request to be on our podcast to promote Marty supreme, which actually comes out on Christmas. So I don't think he's returning our request.
B
But go see it.
A
No, don't.
B
Don't go see it. No, I'm flip flopping. I'm flip flopping. Danny SOS college football.
A
Alabama, Miami, Ole Miss in Oregon all advance at after the first round of the college Football playoff.
B
I'm saying this for our friend Shane Gillis. Notre Dame should have been in that. And I, it's all, I kept thinking watching all of those games. I'm sorry. I know you want to mix it up with Tulane, I know you want to mix it up with James Madison, but to take out Notre Dame, to take out who else was it Vanderbilt? There were teams that were like on the cusp that I byu, that I would have much rather watched play in the playoffs than watching what we knew what was going to happen, which is James Madison just getting tossed around in Eugene, Oregon.
A
But then here's my thing about college football is at some point don't you just go like, okay, so it's only ever going to be these schools. It can never be these other schools. Well, can't James Madison have a year where like, they're really good?
B
Sure.
A
Shouldn't that be the way that it's built?
B
Did my question to you is, and I don't know this because, you know, college football so fractured, fractured that you can be paying attention and still not know were they a top 15 team?
A
Were they a top, they got in because they were the top of their conference.
B
That's what I think is.
A
But I think they want every conference represented in the playoff and I think that's fair enough.
B
So if you want to be a mid major and get into the playoffs, then you need to take on some ACC teams, some SEC teams, some Big 12 teams. I need to see you beat some big dogs. Dogs. Because if you're just going to beat your conference, you guys are all the same, which in basketball can happen. Football is completely different. You're dealing with physical size, you're dealing with, with quickness and speed where I, I feel like if you're a mid major, you need to beat a top 25sec, big 10sec. You need to beat a major context conference team. And I don't think James Madison or Tulane did that well. They both lost by what they should.
A
Have lost and they're both out.
B
And it sucks because you have a running back for Notre Dame that was up for the Heisman, that we didn't get to see what he does in the postseason. It just sucked. I, I, I was, I'm not mad. I'm disappointed.
A
Fair enough. The big headline that people were talking about was that a Bella Danger was in the, in the crowd for the Miami game.
B
She also got Johnny Manziel to throw up the U.
A
That's old, I think.
B
Oh, okay.
A
I think that picture might have been Old Johnny Manziel. Kind of an interesting story. He was supposed to be the picker, like Timothee Chalamet on college game day, replaced at the last minute by. What's Alex's last name?
B
I hate him because he's on the Thunder.
A
I know.
B
He's so good.
A
Alex Caruso.
B
Yeah, Excursion.
A
And. And it was because, well, Johnny Manziel was at the fight the night before in Miami, the Paul fight. And then he didn't come to the game. So people were saying, wow, he must have gotten too drunk or too hungover and he couldn't make it. He says now that it was. Well, first he put out a statement that I was a little bit confused by because it's like, you. You don't understand your own perception of you. He said, I will have plenty more to say about what transpired yesterday. There's almost nothing on this earth that would have made me miss that game. To all the people that genuinely reached out and checked in on me, I can't thank you enough to espn, Pat, Coach Desmond, and the entire crew at game day, I apologize. It was out of my control. To the Aggies in the A and M fan base, that's who Miami was playing. I'm sorry. I will continue to let everyone out there run with a fake narrative. And at the end of the day, perception always wins over reality. I love all of you who genuinely support me through good and bad, like you've done for years, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He had norovirus. He says now, oh, no, just say that. Then don't say like, yeah, you guys can keep running with this false narrative about me. You got to go like, hey, I understand why people think I'm unreliable. Hey, I understand why people think I can't be trusted to show up to something. And actually you had Nora virus.
B
And let this be a lesson to people that are trying to call out of their job. Don't give them too many words. Yeah, just go, so I got diarrhea.
A
I'm gonna let you guys run with this. I got Montezuma's revenge.
B
Yeah, stop running with this fake narrative. Just thought that was that. My butt's leaking.
A
People were upset.
B
There's a fake narrative that my butthole's leaking.
A
Michael Irvin made it.
B
Yeah, he did.
A
59 year old Michael Irvin made it. He was at the fight and made it to the game the next day.
B
Can I tell you right now, as far as a player that I hated when I was a kid. Go Niners and He was a cowboy. I love him now. Yeah, I love Michael Irvin. I get excited to see him. Like a favorite uncle. I see him and I go, yes. He does stuff that I think is great. His son tried being a rapper and he was like, you're rich. And I was like, that's the energy I'm looking for is I'm looking for rich kids to call out their kids when they go, I'm from the streets. And Michael Irving goes, no, you're not in a gated community. And you're like, I like you, Michael Irvin. And he was a fucking baller. He was a baller. I love Michael Irvin now, but man, I hated him when he was on the Cowboys.
A
This game started at noon in Texas and he was ringside at the Jake Paul fight in Miami the night before. Hey, did you see also Gisele got married to the jiu jitsu instructor.
B
Man, this might be the only time in my life I feel bad for Tom Brady because your ex wife that you wanted to obviously wanted to stay in a relationship with goes and marries. Not badly enough, I know, but goes and marries a guy that can just kick the shit out of you. That sucks.
A
This headline from TMZ I saw yesterday, Tom Brady posts pics set to logic suicide prevention hotline song.
B
That's the song that we always joke.
A
Around after Gisele marriage news. Yeah. The song I've said is like it gives my depression and earworm. So I know it's. I know it was for a good cause. I know that the money went to, you know, or the money they raised money to for suicide prevention. But I will say now when I am having those dark thoughts, my brain goes, I don't want to be alive. I just want to die today. And it's like really a catchy tune.
B
And he put that on his stories.
A
Yeah, he posted pictures set to that song.
B
Oh my. Embarrassing. This is why you need real friends. I'm talking about real friends.
A
Real friends.
B
But people for a real friend. Someone to tell me to take that star down. That should have gone up and one of his friends should have watched that and gone. Tom. Tom.
A
Hey, Tom. Hey, Tom. Hey, stop. Take that down.
B
You look like a. You look like a teenage girl that.
A
Got broken up with heated rivalry. The hockey. The spicy hockey show.
B
Gay hockey. Gays on ice.
A
Episode five. Yeah, a huge. I haven't watched yet. I'm not caught up. But episode five, something big happens. I guess there were like watch along parties at bars, people going nuts. It is now tied with season four, episode 14 of Breaking Bad.
B
No. Tuco's uncle.
A
No, it's how. Wow. What's the episode?
B
Ding. That's the finale, right?
A
It's the Ozymandias. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought you were saying the name of it.
B
Yeah, that's really.
A
Yes.
B
If you have not watched Breaking bad, skip forward 10 seconds. That's, like, where he blows up his uncle. It's like the coolest moment in the show. And this gay hockey thing tied the ratings.
A
Yeah. On IMDb.
B
Damn. Put those gays on ice. They knelt right through it.
A
We should go walk. We should. You gotta. You don't wanna watch it.
B
You could watch it.
A
I'll watch it. I'll watch it and tell you about it.
B
Yeah, I mean, I'm a pro wrestling fan, so there's part of me that thinks I can do it. And then I go, nah, I gotta stay a pro wrestling fan, so I can't watch it.
A
Okay.
B
I need to keep my. I need to keep my gay bottled up. Yeah.
A
I can only be this amount of gay over here.
B
You're gonna redline my gay.
A
Tate McCray. We were thinking that she was gonna. She was dating Jack Hughes. Jack Hughes. Jack Hughes from the Devils. And he just came back, played his first game back, and she was at the game, so we think Tate McRae might be dating Jacques. Jacques, do you have any thoughts on that?
B
Walkie Boonville.
A
That's where we are. We're at Walkie Boonville.
B
We just drove through Des Moines. I. I only know her work from being the musical guest of Saturday Night Live when Shane Hook.
A
She was. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember now.
B
And she does a lot of cool dances with chairs.
A
She's a dance. She dances first. She's dance heavy. The last thing I think I have in here because we have to go. You know Alex Hunold, the free solo guy? The guy who climbed El Capitan without any ropes or anything?
B
Yeah, He.
A
They just announced he's gonna free solo the Taipei 101. That giant building.
B
And to that I say, let me know when it's done.
A
1700Ft, no ropes, just his hands on Netflix.
B
Let me know when it's over.
A
January 23rd.
B
Because if we're watching an Owen Myrtle's birthday where someone falls to their death.
A
Isn'T that the only reason people watch those subconsciously? Why else would you be watching a guy walk a tightrope across the Grand Canyon if not to see if maybe he falls?
B
Well, because you want to see someone attempt it. I think, yes, there are people that want to watch him fall. But I think more importantly, it's like, wow, this guy's got the balls to do it and does it. And that's pretty cool. That was like Evel Knievel's whole thing, like, this guy's just going to launch himself.
A
Yeah.
B
And maybe I need to launch myself, and that's how I'll get that.
A
No, no, no.
B
That's new promotion at work talking for the fans mindset.
A
Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Sorry, I thought you were.
B
I need to stop being mean to myself.
A
Yes.
B
That's my. My jumping 14 school buses is not dragging myself down every day.
A
It's just making a mistake and going. And that's the way life is. And moving on with your life.
B
What a daredevil.
A
Dan defies death by not beating himself up by saying it's okay. Anyway, Netflix, January 23rd. Happy birthday, Myrtle. We're gonna be watching that guy free solo a building. What we're gonna do now is we're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back, Chris wrote for me things you can watch if you want to watch sports this week. And so I'm gonna take over that segment and tell you guys we'll be right back. It's the season to come together over your holiday favorites at Starbucks. Warm up with a creamy caramel brulee latte and get festive with an iced gingerbread chai or share a velvety peppermint mocha together is the best place to be at Starbucks. Adobe Acrobat Studio. So brand new. Show me all the things PDFs can do. Do your work with ease and speed. PDF Spaces is all you need. Do hours of research in an instant with key insights from an AI assistant. Pick a template with a click. Now your prezo looks super slick. Close that deal. Yeah, you won. Do that, that. Doing that, did that, done.
B
Now you can do that, do that with Acrobat.
A
Now you can do that, do that with the all new Acrobat. It's time to do your best work with the allnew Adobe Acrobat Studio.
B
Before the trophy and bragging rights are rightfully yours. Before your sleeper turns in a season.
A
No one saw coming. Before stats and projections turn into points.
B
On the board and your lineup falls perfectly into place. Place you flip the lid on a.
A
Can of on nicotine pouches.
B
And as you make your first pick.
A
You know this is the season where fantasy is going to surpass reality.
B
It's on products for tobacco consumers 21.
A
Years of age or Older Warning. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Not sure if you have the experience to start your dream job. Good news. These days, it's the skills that count. Udemy can help you get those in demand. Skills. Want to be an AI mastermind? Learn with us. Game developer. We've got you covered. AWS certified Cloud practitioner. We can help you prep. You'll learn from real world experts who love what they do so that you can love what you do. Go to udemy.com for the skills to get you started and get set for your dream job. Okay, welcome back. Real quick, before we let you go, we want to tell you if you wanted to watch some sports this week, what you could watch, you know, if you get the itch.
B
Yeah.
A
If it strikes ya. And the first thing is the World Junior Ice Hockey Championships. We have Germany versus USA. That's Friday, the 26th of December at 1pm Eastern on NHL Network. USA is in group A with Sweden, Slovakia, Switzerland and Germany. And Canada is in Group B with Finland, Czechia, Latvia and Denmark. The tournament begins on the 26th of December and it concludes on the 5th of January. And so. So this week, Friday on the 26th, the day after Christmas, Black Friday, 1pm Eastern on NHL Network, you can watch Germany play.
B
USA is Black Friday the day after Christmas? I thought that was.
A
Oh, that's not what I meant. What did I mean? What's it called the day after Christmas? Boxing Day. Yes, that's what I meant.
B
Shout out Canada.
A
It's the day after. Because it's when you return everything. That's what I thought it meant.
B
Oh, yeah.
A
I thought it meant you open up those boxes and you go put those back in. We got to take those back.
B
Tech.
A
It's kind of like Black Friday. It's a gray Friday when everybody going to the mall sucks just as bad that day.
B
Yeah.
A
The second thing you can watch if you want to watch sports this week is number 24, Georgia Tech versus number 12, BYU in the pop Tart Bowl.
B
You watch that Pop Tart die. Watch him sacrifice. Watch him sacrifice a Pop Tart to the gods.
A
You could be watching Notre Dame in this bowl, but they decided, no, thank you.
B
Because Notre Dame should have been in the playoffs.
A
Yeah, but what, why couldn't they go to. To their bowl?
B
Because.
A
Why don't you want to go to your bowl?
B
Go to your bowl.
A
Saturday, December 27th at 3:30 Eastern on ABC. And yes, they will. This year, I believe they're sacrificing multiple Pop Tarts to the Gods.
B
Sweet Lord.
A
There are two teams of pop Tarts. There's frosted, and the other one is something else.
B
Okay.
A
You know, sprinkles, I think it might be sprinkles versus Frost.
B
May the gods be appeased.
A
Yeah, just. Best of luck to them and anybody who eats them, because that's just a. It's a fever dream, that bowl, and you should watch it. And then the third thing you can watch is Baltimore Ravens at Green bay Packers. Saturday, December 27th, at 8pm on Peacock. It's Saturday night NFL action, because as soon as they legally are allowed to play the NFL on Saturdays, they do. The NFL goes, we got it. We're allowed to now, so we're gonna.
B
Hey, college kids off.
A
Just a little football for you on a Saturday so you can watch that. And those are the three things. Chris would have done this better, I think, but those are the three things you can watch if you want to watch sports this week. That's it for the podcast. You guys. This is probably a bunch of hours, but like I said, we're driving. We're driving across the country. Coming up on Thursday, we do have an episode. Merry Christmas, everyone. It's a fun episode. It's just me and the casualties breaking down, telling Isabella the craziest thing every NBA team has done in its history, and she has to guess which ones are real and which ones are lies. It's very fun. Maybe one of my favorite episodes we've done that'll be out on Thursday, and then we'll be back here next Tuesday. Another one of these. Maybe I'll organize it a little bit better of Dan and I telling you guys about probably just what happened at Christmas. Yeah, probably just family Christmas drama.
B
Love it.
A
We love that. So we'll see you then. We love you. We mean it, and we'll see you on Thursday. Bye.
B
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A
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Hey, everyone, it's Nicki and Bri, and we're here to let you know that we have a podcast, the Nicki and Bri Show. Yes. And we've got new episodes every Monday and Thursday. We're serving up real deal conversations that go beyond the camera cameras. Think Motherhood Confessions, Sisterhood Vibes, boss Business Energy and TV Live tea. Need a laugh? We got you craving inspo. We got inspiration and affirmations on deck. Want a little cry or a big? Heck yes. That's our jam. Whether we're breaking down pop culture, sharing parenting wins or fails, unpacking personal growth, or just riffing on everyday chaos, nothing is off limits. It plus we welcome incredible guests, play our favorite games, and do what only sisters can keep it 100 while raising a glass together. So pop a bottle, hit play, and come hang with us. Listen to the Nikki and Brie show wherever you get your podcast.
Podcast: Casuals with Katie Nolan
Episode: ROAD TRIP! Iowa, Jake Paul's Jaw, and a Chalamet Conspiracy | with Dan Soder
Air Date: December 23, 2025
Guests: Dan Soder
This episode of Casuals is a special holiday road trip edition, recorded by Katie Nolan and her partner/guest Dan Soder while driving through Iowa. It’s a relaxed, off-the-cuff conversation ranging from Midwest sightseeing, their dog Myrtle, and quirky road trip tales, to a roundup of the week's top sports headlines. As ever, the tone is approachable, playful, and full of tangents—perfect for “the sports-curious” and devoted fans alike.
[01:03-06:38]
Notable Quote:
"Is it illegal to podcast while driving? …I think it should be illegal."
— Katie and Dan [06:22-06:38]
[08:28-18:27]
Notable Quote:
“Seriously, who said you don’t learn stuff on this podcast? Bring them to me.”
— Katie [17:54]
[22:11-25:37]
Notable Quote:
“It’s not that he averages a triple double...it’s that basketball isn’t everything to him. And that’s why I love him. We need more of that.”
— Dan Soder [24:17]
[25:48-36:59]
Memorable Moments:
[38:28-41:26]
[41:43-56:01]
Memorable Moment:
“Can I do my segment that we talked about called Old Man Corner?...Hey, parents, start telling your kids that they're not that important…”
— Dan [56:25-56:36]
[57:55-61:35]
[61:15-66:26]
[66:37-74:21]
[76:37-78:49]
[78:49–79:35]
| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------|:-----------:| | Midwest Road Trip Recap | 01:03-06:38 | | Listener Emails & Trip Banter | 08:28-18:27 | | NBA Cup and Knicks Champs Chat | 22:11-25:37 | | Jake Paul KO / Andrew Tate Rant | 25:48-36:59 | | NFL Diva Receivers Stories | 41:43-56:01 | | Fantasy/Playoff Drama | 57:55-61:35 | | Timothy Chalamet Sports Conspiracy | 61:58-66:26 | | College Football Playoff Takes | 66:37-66:26 | | What to Watch This Week | 76:37-78:49 | | Closing/Next Episode Preview | 78:49-79:35 |
Episode in a Sentence:
A chaotic, intimate, and riotously funny holiday road trip through the Midwest, blending sports headlines, pet vomit, boxing comeuppance, and the search for a perfect breakfast pizza—brought to you by Katie Nolan and Dan Soder as only they can.