Taylor Swift, Notre Dame, and Twice-Baked Choc Chip Cookies | with Jessica Smetana

Summary

Podcast Summary: Casuals with Katie Nolan Episode: Taylor Swift, Notre Dame, and Twice-Baked Choc Chip Cookies | with Jessica Smetana
Release Date: August 14, 2025
Host: Katie Nolan
Guest: Jessica Smetana (Host of Sports Gone Wrong on Vice)

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1. Introduction

Katie Nolan welcomes listeners to another episode of Casuals, emphasizing the podcast's inclusive approach to sports discussions. She introduces herself, ongoing co-hosts Chris and Isabella, and teases the upcoming guest, Jessica Smetana.

2. Listener Interaction: Jim’s Fandom Struggle

Jim's Voicemail [05:19]: Jim from Atlanta shares his dilemma about becoming a hardcore fan of the podcast, which conflicts with the show's casual ethos.

• Jim: “How do I become less of a hardcore fan of Casuals and keep it casual?” [05:19]

Katie's Response [06:04]: Katie reassures Jim and discusses the balance between being a hardcore fan of a specific sport while maintaining a casual enthusiasm across others.

• Katie Nolan: “Being a hardcore fan of anything and also like casuals is perfectly okay.” [07:25]

3. Orienteering Adventure

Chris recounts his challenging experience with orienteering in Finland, highlighting the complexities of the sport without GPS reliance.

• Chris: “The event starts deep in the forest... I couldn't handle a six-mile run with a map.” [08:05]

Katie reflects on modern reliance on GPS and how it contrasts with orienteering, pondering its appeal to younger generations.

• Katie Nolan: “You no longer trust your own instincts or use your eyes... Outsourcing your brain to your phone.” [10:16]

4. Guest Segment: Jessica Smetana Joins the Podcast

At [30:59], Jessica Smetana joins the conversation, bringing insights from her experience on Sports Gone Wrong and her new Notre Dame football podcast, Echoes.

5. Taylor Swift’s Appearance on New Heights Podcast

Katie and Jessica discuss Taylor Swift's recent appearance on the New Heights podcast, hosted by her boyfriend Travis Kelce and his brother Jason.

• Katie Nolan: “I’m fascinated to see how a person who never does podcasts comports themselves on a sports podcast.” [17:15]
• Jessica Smetana: Describes the authenticity observed during Taylor’s interview and her interactions with Travis.
  • Jess: “Jason seemed very authentic because he argues with trolls a lot on social media.” [38:49]

6. WNBA Connecticut Suns Ownership Battle

The hosts delve into the ongoing ownership struggle of the Connecticut Sun, discussing competing bids and the league's influence on potential team relocations.

• Jess: “The main problem is the league... it wants a team in a larger market someplace else.” [45:31]
• Katie Nolan: “Boston is a huge market. Why wouldn’t they accept it?” [47:23]

7. South Carolina Coach’s Wife’s Cookie Criticism

Katie brings up the controversy surrounding Emily Beamer, wife of South Carolina head coach Shane Beamer, whose cookie baking has faced online criticism.

• Katie Nolan: “Shane said his wife’s cookies are the bomb and encouraged fans to try them.” [55:24]
• Jess Smetana: Shares her own experiences with baking and receiving mixed feedback.
  • Jess: “Sometimes I’d bring a cookie and people would either love it or not care.” [80:24]

8. Notre Dame Football and New Coach Bill Belichick?

A speculative discussion arises around the possibility of NFL legend Bill Belichick transitioning to coach Notre Dame's football team.

• Jess: “I think if you see the big picture, maybe they wiggle their way into the playoff.” [66:45]
• Katie Nolan: “It’s weird to see Tom Brady being overshadowed by someone like Belichick in this context.” [72:31]

9. Venmo Scandal Involving Oklahoma Quarterback

Jessica addresses a recent scandal where an Oklahoma quarterback allegedly made questionable Venmo payments, discussing the implications and the need for privacy in financial transactions.

• Jess: “He claims it’s an inside joke, which is more believable than hacked.” [84:28]
• Katie Nolan: Emphasizes the importance of private financial information to prevent identity theft. [85:37]

10. Closing Remarks and Future Plans

Katie and Jessica wrap up the episode by discussing future episodes, upcoming sports events, and merchandise. They share light-hearted banter about baking skills and the importance of authentic interactions within sports fandom.

• Katie Nolan: “We have merch coming soon. Our own Casuals hoodie is on its way!” [91:39]
• Jess Smetana: Highlights her involvement in various podcasts and encourages listeners to tune in.

Notable Quotes

• Jim [05:19]: “How do I become less of a hardcore fan of Casuals and keep it casual?”
• Katie Nolan [07:25]: “Being a hardcore fan of anything and also like casuals is perfectly okay.”
• Chris [08:05]: “I have never felt prouder. I finished an Ironman and this moment honestly ranked right up there.”
• Jess Smetana [38:49]: “Jason seemed very authentic because he argues with trolls a lot on social media.”
• Jess Smetana [55:24]: “She does it every Thursday for all the people in this building, to the people who reached out to her on Instagram to criticize her and tell her she's not cooking them long enough.”

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Conclusion This episode of Casuals with Katie Nolan offers a blend of lighthearted sports banter, insightful discussions on current sports controversies, and engaging guest interactions. From Taylor Swift's unexpected foray into sports podcasts to the intricacies of orienteering and the latest in WNBA team ownership battles, Katie and Jessica provide a comprehensive and entertaining overview for both casual and avid sports fans.

Transcript

[Katie Nolan]

You know, casuals is for all kinds of sports fans. We talk about soccer, we talk about football. Parentheses American. We talk about rugby. Sometimes the podcast has a little something for everyone from sports obsessed to the sports curious. You know what else brings everyone to the table? I know you do. It's a handcrafted summer beverage from Starbucks. Have you tried the Strato Frappuccino blended beverage yet? It's an instant all Star. You thought nothing could top the classic Starbucks Frappuccino. Who doesn't love a frozen coffee? But the breakout rookie this summer season is the Starbucks Strato Frappuccino blended beverage. It's a smooth Frappuccino topped with creamy cold foam and it's sure to become a home run with your entire friend group. And how fun is that? Just sitting in real life with your friends under one of those green Starbucks umbrellas, all with your Strato Frappuccino blended beverages, talking about I don't know what you think's gonna happen in the upcoming NFL season. IRL hangs brought to you by Starbucks. Your Strato Frappuccino in is ready at Starbucks. Summertime is here and nobody wants to spend all day cooking in a hot kitchen. I know I don't. And that's where Gorton Seafood comes in. For over 175 years, Gorton Seafood has been serving up restaurant quality seafood that's unbelievably easy to make and ready to eat in just a few minutes. Whether it's their classic fish sticks and crunchy breaded fish filets for a quick weeknight dinner, or their awesome coconut shrimp and double Crunch Shrimp for when you want to impress without the stress, they've got you covered. Enjoy quality seafood in minutes and at a fraction of the cost. It's perfect for summer grilling, seaside snacks, or even quiet nights in. I mean, Gorton's has been around for 175 years and they've gotten it right. You can throw that fish fillet on top of a light summer salad. You could put together quick and easy fish tacos. You just can't go wrong. Visit gortons.com to learn more, find a store and get recipe inspiration Trusted Gordon's Fisherman hey Isabella, did you see who the new face of ELF Cosmetics is? Yes. Thoughts?

[Isabella]

I don't get it. And as someone is like I'm an avid ELF user, like I use ELF products all the time for skincare, for makeup products. I just don't get it. Matt Rife doesn't scream makeup brand ambassador to me, especially Matt Rife himself, I'm not necessarily now more likely to want.

[Katie Nolan]

To buy Elf products, like, outside of. Even outside of the controversy, which I guess.

[Isabella]

Yeah, no, literally even outside of that.

[Katie Nolan]

Summed up is that he. At the beginning of. Not beginning of his career, but once he really popped off, he was sort of catering a. Or speaking to a female audience. He had a lot of female fans who made him very famous. And then once he was very famous, he was sort of courting a different audience pretty nakedly. It was pretty obvious he wanted men to like him instead. So he sort of turned on his audience and they didn't love that. Women. And now outside of that, I think if you, A, don't wear makeup, and B, not that there's anything wrong with modifying your face, but if you have a modified face. Makeup is for those of us who have a face, and we want it to look different than our regular face, but we're too afraid to actually surgically do anything about it. I feel like Matt Rife shouldn't be allowed to be the spokesperson because it's. You're not wearing the product.

[Isabella]

Maybe this is Matt Rife's way of being like, listen, like, I really want to actually try makeup.

[Katie Nolan]

And we would. People would love that. But I have a funny feeling it's not. That's not it. Hi there. Hello. Welcome to Casuals. It's a sports podcast for people that maybe don't listen to a lot of sports podcasts. Or maybe you do. Look, I don't judge you. We're just here to talk about sports in a way that's very chill and doesn't judge and it doesn't care what you know. We're just very passionate about it. I'm Katie Nolan. I'm your host. Joined right now currently by two of the casualties. We have Chris and we have Isabella. We will be joined in a little bit by my friend Jess Smatana, who you may know from Meadowlark Media. She appears on the LeBatard Dan LeBatard Show. She also has a podcast about Notre Dame football called the Echoes with friend of the show, Mike Gullock Jr. And she appears on Sports Gone Wrong on Wednesdays at 9pm on Vice. So Jess will be joining us in a little bit. We're gonna talk about a lot of college football stories, and we will talk about the big story, which of course is Taylor Swift appearing on New Heights, the podcast hosted by her boyfriend, Travis Kelsey, who is the tight end for the Kansas City Chiefs, as well as his brother, Jason Kelsey. We will get to all of that in a moment. First, I have to tell you that if you want to reach us, you can email us Casuals with katienolanmail.com voicemail 646-801-0043. On IG and TikTok. We are at CasualsThePodcast and we do listen to these things, as evidenced by we're gonna play one for you right now. We got a voicemail from Jim in Atlanta. Chris, why don't you go ahead and play that? We'll take a listen.

[Chris]

Hey, Katie and the casualties, this is Jim from Atlanta and I've got a bit of a conundrum. I'm becoming a hardcore fan of casuals. It kind of goes against the whole purpose of the show, but I realized this when Katie said that Brady wasn't going to be in studio. I said out loud in my car, what the F, Brady? I didn't say F. Said another word. And then I realized, that's crazy. Why should I care what Brady does? And then I realized I'm just becoming a huge fanatic of the show and I love it and I love you guys and I mean it. And you guys help me out with this. How do I become less of a hardcore fan of casuals and keep it casual?

[Katie Nolan]

I love that.

[Chris]

So good.

[Katie Nolan]

Jim, I would never tell you to love us less. First of all, impossible.

[Jess Matana]

Yeah.

[Isabella]

This is the one thing that you can be hardcore about.

[Katie Nolan]

Here's the thing. I think I know that I want to talk this through with you guys because it makes sense in my brain. Being a hardcore fan of a team does not preclude you from being a casual. I feel like you can be a hardcore. And, and I think as I'm saying that I'm like, I know that doesn't make sense, but I think like, you can be like your emotional well being can be tied to a team and you still can't name who their third coach of the entire franchise was like. I think hardcore fandom is too often for me tied to encyclopedic knowledge when I think it's more like I'm a hardcore fan. I don't know everything, but I. I live and die by this team. It does. So I do feel like you're allowed to be a hardcore fan of anything and also like casuals mostly because even if you are a hardcore die hard fan of like lacrosse as a sport and the rules of lacrosse, you're probably a casual of basketball because you couldn't possibly be that type of a fan for all sports. All the time. So did I make it make sense? Is that okay?

[Isabella]

I completely agree.

[Katie Nolan]

I think you should be a hardcore fan of this show. In fact, I'd encourage anyone listening to go ahead and become a hardcore fan of casuals.

[Chris]

We're not going to be more like Jim.

[Katie Nolan]

Be more like Jim.

[Isabella]

Yeah, what the F Brady.

[Katie Nolan]

Exactly. Be more like Jim. In that you ask what the f Brady for not being here. He's still on vacation if you guys would believe it.

[Chris]

Still. Although he has sent through multiple emails and Slack messages throughout the week because even on vacation that dude does not turn it off.

[Katie Nolan]

I was gonna say we should make that perfectly clear. Brady works so hard that I often and you guys will back me up on this is in our group chat. We'll have to go and do this tomorrow during work hours.

[Chris]

It's one in the morning, Brady. Go to sleep.

[Katie Nolan]

Just cause you're awake does not mean you should be working. So please do not just know. Brady does work very hard and we have to push him to go on vacation. That being said, what the f. It's time to come home. Two episodes we've had to do now without you. We also not a voicemail, but we also got an email Chris, you were telling me about from someone named Dave about orienteering.

[Chris]

Yes. And Dave says hi Katie and the casualties. Loved hearing you talk about orienteering recently. It brought back some memories. I'm an American living in Finland where orienteering is basically a national pastime. Good to know. Every kid does it in school like Americans in dodgeball or kickball. So when a Finnish coworker invited me to try it, I figured, sure, how hard can it be? I've done marathons, triathlons, even in Ironman. I can handle a six mile run with a map. I turns out I cannot handle a six mile run with a map. The event starts deep in the forest. Not on a trail or path or anything. Just trees and bush. You're given a compass and you only get your map the second you cross the starting line. People are released every two minutes. So you can't just follow someone. It's very Hunger Games vibe. I took off confidently and proceeded to get completely hopelessly lost. After an hour and a half, I hadn't found a single checkpoint. No water, no sense of direction.

[Katie Nolan]

I would give up for sure. That's crazy.

[Chris]

Tell me about it. Eventually I climbed a giant boulder to get a view, spotted a lake that wasn't supposed to be there according to my internal compass, used that to triangulate where I actually was, and finally found my first checkpoint. I have never felt prouder. I finished an Ironman and this moment honestly ranked right up there. In the end I was out there for 2 hours and 45 minutes. I found two checkpoints. My friend had finished the full course in 50 minutes and had to come rescue me.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh my God.

[Chris]

I ran 5.5 miles for two dots on the map. I've since tried it again and it's awesome. If you ever get the chance to try orienteering, I highly recommend it. Just learn to read the map first. So maybe remember we were talking on Tuesday about how there was a bunch of orienteering athletes who didn't finish the race? That might have been the case. They just got lost and had to have a friend come and bail them out wild.

[Katie Nolan]

It's also just really fascinating. Maybe I'm zooming in too close on this, but it's fascinating at and the time of GPS that like, I mean I go completely like outsource my brain to my phone when I'm driving. I no longer, I was thinking about this yesterday on my long drive home. I no longer trust my own instincts or use my eyes to go like oh, I remember this part of the trip. I'm just flying blind until the lady in my phone says make the next right and then I do. So I imagine that means younger generations who have always had this technology didn't even a map to them is just like where the.

[Jess Matana]

It's like can I zoom in?

[Katie Nolan]

A map to them is like where the restaurants populate when they look it up on grubhub. Like a map for them it's just where they see all of the different locations they could go to for. So there is no chance they've looked at a map and considered that they would have to pick which of those roads to use to get to a destination the way that like my parents had to now we grew up with MapQuest. By the time I had my license you could type in where you needed to go and print out the directions and follow them turn by turn. So like I'm not good with a map either. But it's just funny that there is a sport that's basically about reading of a map. And when we talk about certain youth sports, like losing kids participating in them because of the world changing, I would imagine a lot of younger kids are less interested in a map based sport than used to be because there is no. They don't deal with maps like that.

[Isabella]

My ego says that I would do really well in this.

[Katie Nolan]

I don't think so. And I. But I would. I would support your career. I really.

[Isabella]

Guys, I think I would do kind of okay. Don't know about a six mile version maybe if there's like a three mile version to start off.

[Katie Nolan]

And what makes you think, if I may, that you'd be pretty good at it?

[Isabella]

I don't know. I just have a lot of strong will and I.

[Chris]

Okay.

[Isabella]

And I don't know, I think I can read a map. Okay. Like, if I get used to it again, I'm like, okay, I can read this.

[Chris]

All right. So once you throw out the first pitch on Sunday and we get that out of the way, the next thing to focus on is getting invited to an Ari interior.

[Isabella]

Guys, I haven't thrown anything yet, so we're about to.

[Katie Nolan]

We should tell the people. We can let them in on this. We are. I had planned our studio, by the way, another piece of housekeeping. This is our last episode in this studio that we're currently in. Now, let me just say I know that doesn't matter because I know the majority of you are audio listeners, because I know we don't put the full product on YouTube. And maybe this could provide a little clarity for you as to why we're not at that stage yet, because we are about to be homeless for a little bit. We're going to have no studio. So if we had been putting full episodes on YouTube, this would be a bit of a snag. But because we don't. I know it doesn't matter that much, but it does still matter to us. We got to move all of our stuff. Isabella and I today are going to go outside and have a catch. And because we're in Bryant Park, I had just assumed that's a park, there's grass. We can go stand on that and throw the ball to each other. And Isabella said today, I don't think they allow you on the grass at.

[Isabella]

Bryant park, like, regularly. I don't think so. Like, they have it. They'll have like little, like. Like a line, like a wire line in between.

[Katie Nolan]

What's the point of a park?

[Isabella]

I don't know.

[Katie Nolan]

What's the point of a park? I can't go.

[Isabella]

Sometimes they do. So I don't know. On the off chance they may let.

[Katie Nolan]

You, we're going to walk over there and we're going to try it.

[Chris]

Yeah, Isabella, you just got to big time him and say, don't you know who I am?

[Katie Nolan]

I'm throwing out a Don't you know.

[Chris]

What I'm doing on Sunday?

[Katie Nolan]

What we may need to do is pull up a map and have you orienteer us to a new place to throw a ball. Because if we're not allowed on that grass, I'm not having a catch with you in the middle of 6th Avenue. That doesn't make a bunch of sense. And while I have high hopes for your ability to throw a ball, I wouldn't put you in such a high risk situation.

[Isabella]

Someone else might interfere and like, catch it.

[Katie Nolan]

I guess it's possible that we would need to go to New Jersey. There's no way that. To have a catch in New York City.

[Isabella]

No, there's probably. There's another park.

[Katie Nolan]

Central Park?

[Chris]

Yeah, Central Park.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Isabella]

But Central park is a little bit of a.

[Katie Nolan]

Central park is like a whole thing. I feel like they're gonna make me have a permit to have a catch. I don't know. It's a lot, but it is funny. People that live in big cities like this always say, like, well, we don't have. We don't have Yach, but we have parks. And then you're like, well, yeah, but if you want to use, you've got to call somebody and ask for Roosevelt Island.

[Chris]

Just go across to Roosevelt Island. It's a couple of stops away on.

[Katie Nolan]

The F. Dave, thank you for writing in and telling us about your orienteering experience. I do want to say I apologize that Chris australiad up your email and said it was just trees and bush when you wrote Brush. The normal thing to write. That's just where he's from. He can't help it. Everything is the bush.

[Chris]

In Australia we say trees and bush.

[Katie Nolan]

That's right. They love bush in Australia. Something important to know. And I'm not talking about the band. All right, so before we get into Jess, let me just. Because we talk a little bit about Taylor Swift, the Taylor Swift of it all. But she, like me, is not a swiftie. And so we don't. We didn't dwell too much on it or spend too much time on it, but. And I give this speech in a second in the interview with her, so I don't want to repeat myself too much here, but I do want to be, you know, come to the audience honestly as opposed to coming in and being like, pretending that I've always been a swiftie. I'm not a swiftie. I respect her. I mean, especially as a businesswoman. Her music is just. It does not speak to me. I have a bunch of songs of hers that I like, but I'm not an encyclopedic Knowledge of Taylor Swift. I have many friends who are. But obviously Taylor Swift right now, in this moment, in terms of sports and women, she is at least responsible for a young generation of women paying attention to football in a way that perhaps they weren't before. So in that way, I'm a huge Taylor Swift fan. I love anything that will bridge the gap or make anybody feel, I think, as I've made pretty clear on this podcast, make them feel comfortable entering a space and make them feel as though they belong there. And so I listened to this interview. Sort of a fascinated to see such a gigantic star on such a transparent platform. I know obviously this is with her boyfriend and there no way that something would make it in that they didn't want. And Tree Payne, her publicist, is probably the best in the biz. And so it's probably meticulously planned, et cetera. But I was interested to see how a person who never does podcasts comports themselves on a podcast, especially a sports podcast. And so I listened to it. I didn't watch it. I watched clips, but I listened to the most of the episode. I'm almost all the way through. It's two hours long, which is insane. Who makes a two hour long podcast?

[Isabella]

Yeah, who would?

[Chris]

Not us. We were only an hour 52. Who.

[Katie Nolan]

Could possibly make a two hour. Don't tell Brady. Brady. I do love that people pointed out the episode that Brady doesn't come to is when we go, yeah, this one's gonna be two hours. Let's just go ahead and put that out there. Let's. So I'm mostly through the episode. The most fascinating stuff in it for me were these little glimpses into their life sounding at least almost a little bit like regular. Obviously she's off of the errors tour now, which was her big multinational, millions of city. I don't know the numbers. It's like she had one of the biggest tours of all time, if not the biggest tour of all time. She's off of that now. So your brain goes like, what is Taylor Swift's day to day life even look like? But she mentions the day she found out that she got the rights to her masters or she got her masters back, that she like knocked on Travis's door and he was playing video games and he like took his headset off and like, and she got to tell him and they celebrated and you're just like, that is. I see that. I can see that being the way that you. And he talks about her making. How she's in her sourdough phase era. I suppose that she's like obsessively making all these different types of sourdough and that she, like, sends to training camp with him or like blueberry sourdough. It's like these moments where you're like, oh, they do. For all of this talk about whether or not these two are in a PR relationship. And again, I know this is a PR controlled situation where they could easily be performing that they're in a relationship. There were these little moments where you're like, that felt real. That did feel real. It felt like these two at least have spent enough time together that they have the same story corroborated that they. They seem to really. And I loved Jason, how Jason handled the podcast. He seemed like he took it very seriously, like it was his job to keep things moving, to draw, to have the facts and the questions written and to sort of drive the episode forward. And I thought that he did. I don't. Again, I'm not like a listener to New Heights. This is probably the first full episode of New Heights I've listened to, but I thought it was sweet. I thought it was cute. And the most important part for me is that while they do talk to her about how she says she's a New Heights fan, they ask her what her favorite segment is on the podcast to imply that she listens to the things he does and that he listens to the things she does. She makes a reference at one point, a punny reference, while talking about sourdough to one of her songs where she says, loafing him was bread, which I assume is a reference to Wasn't it? Isn't it? Loving him was red, I believe is a lyric of hers, but he doesn't get the reference. And she says, that's kind of a deep reference. He doesn't know that one. That so personally, so deeply personal to me. Thank you for visibility for not knowing every single minor moment in your loved ones career. There have been so many times where something is new to me on a podcast and I react to it as a human Katie Nolan, a human person who has lived their own life. And the comments are, how does she not know this? Dan did an episode of the Bonfire about this seven years ago and I'm like, yeah, I know.

[Isabella]

And he said that 5 minutes and 23 seconds into the episode.

[Katie Nolan]

Maybe I listened to that. I have listened to. To the Bonfire. I was a fit. But I. If you. It's like nobody thinks through how psycho. It would actually be more concerning if every moment of Dan's career I had watched and could cite. Wouldn't that be weirder? Wouldn't that feel like. I feel like, oh, you were plotting on him, stalking him. And so it's like, I loved the visibility for, like, they know enough about each other's stuff that they are clearly respectful and supportive of the magnitude of each other's career. And it seems like they more are focused on how that can help them understand each other than it is on making sure you know every single fact about every single album, about every. And I can imagine the pressure to do that when you're dating Taylor Swift, somebody who has Bibles and Bibles and Bibles of lore. Like, I have a friend, Kelly, who I considered calling for this podcast and still might. If the fan reaction to this is that we didn't go deep enough into the lore, I want to serve female sports fans that are looking for a sports podcast. So if we need to go deeper into this lore, I will call Kelly. She just doesn't like, do podcasts professionally. And I didn't want to like facetimer at noon on a Thursday and be like, tell me everything and God only knows. It could take up the entire podcast. There is so much lore. So to know that Travis is, like, comfortable in how it almost made it seem like more real love to me than if he had gone. Like, I know that reference. Which is like, yeah, because you read it online. There's no way Travis Kelce of Whenever that song came out was a Taylor Swift fan. And it's like, it felt more real to me, I think, than I expected it to. So I think my biggest takeaway from this all is like, shout out Taylor Swift doing sports podcasts. We're happy to be next if you need a place to come. We don't have a studio for the next few weeks, but once that's cleared up, come on by. We'll always have a seat for you. Oh, I didn't even say she announced her new album, which I am excited, tempered, excited for. I'm not trying to fake. It's very important to me that I don't be phony and say, like, can't wait. Because I can't stand when people pretend they've always been a fan of something that you're like, come on, you're new. Acknowledge where you're coming from. I'm excited for the new album because a that color scheme. I'm a big fan of an orange and a teal. I think that they look Orange and teal look great together. I'm Not a huge fan of the photo she chose for the album cover, but this is where my ignorance gets in the way. I'm sure it's communicating something through Easter eggs that I'm not familiar with, but there are alternate covers she released and some of those one ones I like better. But it's called the Life of a Showgirl and she wrote it during the ERAS tour, which is like, how dare you take time off. Some of us can only do one thing at once and already feel overwhelmed. And you're making us all look bad because of your ability to do this so much different stuff at the same time. It's crazy. But it's 12 tracks and she said in this interview, it's 12 tracks and that's it. There's not more coming. There's not something else later. It is these 12 tracks and there's one feature and it's Sabrina Carpenter. I believe she's on the last track.

[Isabella]

Oh, I do like this cover.

[Katie Nolan]

I don't have a ton of criticism, like specific criticism of Taylor Swift, but one is that that last album was too long. It was too many songs. It was too many songs. I felt overwhelmed. I listened through it. Enough of the songs kind of reminded me of each other and I don't have that encyclopedic back knowledge of her whole story, so I. It didn't resonate with me the way I wish that it would. 12 songs is for a non Taylor Swift, die hard approachable. It is a digestible amount of songs. It's a finite number. It's. She said she's. These are poppy because she's writing from a place of she's in love. And I'm excited to see this could be a good Taylor Swift album for me. That makes me go like, oh, maybe this really does resonate. So I am excited for that. When did she say it comes out? Do you have it up, isabella?

[Chris]

Cause you October 3rd.

[Katie Nolan]

October 3rd and then an Easter egg. I would like somebody to answer for me. If you're a Swiftie, please call in or email if you have the answer to this. But I know Taylor Swift is big with numerology and there is rarely a time where she will mention a number and that number is insignificant. And while she was talking about how she's learned so much about football through her love of Travis, she talks about she thought that both quarterbacks were on the field at the same time. She thought that Travis was facing off against his brother on the field at the same time and had to be explained that like that's not. They both play on the offense and the offenses wouldn't be on the field at the same time. As she's explaining, like, now I know a lot more. Now we talk about now I get excited. I thought it was very cute. She was like, now I get excited when like, oh, they drafted Xavier worthy. Like, that's exciting. Oh, I'm learning what a Cover 2 is. I'm learning about man and zone. She said, I'm not ready to be an analyst yet, but give me 16 months. And that feels like a very specific number for a lady who loves numbers. I highly doubt that she just randomly said, give me 16 months. So 16 months from now, I believe is December of next year. Right? So what is that? What's she saying? What's coming? And if it's that she's gonna be a sports analyst, can we please. I think it would be unfair if she didn't at least go on like Kylie Kelsey's podcast or like sports gossip show or dare I say, casuals. So swifties, let me know what you think that meant when she said give me 16 months. Maybe it is just something random because she said she doesn't do Easter eggs for her personal life, but that felt specific and I want to know if anybody else clocked that and what they thought that that meant. That's probably enough yapping about all of this at the top. Let's go ahead and hit a break and then when we come back, we'll be with my lovely, wonderful friend, Jess Matana. We'll be right back. This is casuals. Viori delivers a new perspective on performance apparel with pieces designed to look great beyond the gym. Whether you're running errands, heading to the office, or meeting up with friends, Viori is perfect for what? Whatever your day brings. Take the Vuori Performance Jogger. They're great for fitness, but they're also stylish enough for everyday wear and comfortable enough for lounging around. As part of the dream knit connection, they are made of Viori's softest premium stretch fabric. They're lightweight, moisture wicking and feature a four way performance stretch. Mine, I got them in like a teal green color. What I really love about them is that they're thin. So in this time of the year, sometimes when you put on like a bulky sweatpant, it's too much. These are perfect. They're lightweight, they wick away sweat. So they're very good for wearing even in like a hot month. We're allowed to be comfortable in hot months, guys. 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With plans starting at $10 a month, billed annually, you get unlimited access to over 200 classes taught by the world's best business leaders, writers, chefs, and more. I just started a master class with Helen Mirren. She's teaching acting. And I assume by the end of it, I'm going to be able to act like Helen Mirren, which is pretty exciting. Right now, our listeners get an additional 15 off of any annual [e-mail] that's 15% [e-mail] Casuals. Okay. Joining us now, my dear friend from Sports Gone Wrong, which airs on Vice Wednesday nights at 9pm A show that blends comedic commentary and, I don't know, just off the top of my head, comedic commentary with archival footage to delve into the most absurd, unexpected, and bizarre moments in sports. It's the one, the only, Jessica Smittona. Hi.

[Jess Matana]

Hi.

[Katie Nolan]

Thank you for being here. I just realized I don't think I've ever said your last name out loud till just now. Was that right?

[Jess Matana]

It was close enough.

[Katie Nolan]

What did you say? Matana?

[Jess Matana]

No, I say smitten. I'm from Chicago, so I think there's.

[Katie Nolan]

Like a. Yeah, that's like you say. Do you say. How do you say the video game brother of Luigi Mario? Oh, okay. That's not what I'm not gonna say.

[Jess Matana]

Mario. I think Mario is like a. I might think Long Island Pittsburgh says Mario.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay, maybe that's what it is. Whatever, Smatanna. You get to decide how your last name is said. It's yours, so it's Smatanna. You also have a new Notre Dame football podcast that you Host with Michael Jr. Friend of the show, our buddy. And also you are a still a contributor over at Meadowlark Media. So I may I called you in here today because, A, I haven't seen you in forever, B, my texts to you are going green. What's up? Are we fighting?

[Jess Matana]

So you're like the fourth person to be like, hey, did you get an Android? I don't think you got an Android. No, I just have a new number, so I haven't been ignoring you. We're not fighting, but maybe we are fighting now.

[Katie Nolan]

Now that I know you got in my number. Yes. Because I just got the old one. I feel like I was the last person to get the old one. You're like, hey, it's Jess.

[Jess Matana]

You were the line. I was like, katie got it.

[Katie Nolan]

So time to throw too many. Yeah, I gotta. I gotta hope. I can't just kick everyone out. I have to open a new club and abandon this one. So anyway, glad we cleared that up. And then the other big news of the sports, I guess the women and sports world today, because those two intersection. Yes. Is that Taylor Swift went on new heights. I, in my green text to you, was trying to find out if you are a Swiftie, because I know you and Charlotte Wilder used to host a podcast together and Charlotte is like one of the leading voices in the space on the Taylor Swift sports intersection. So are you also a Swiftie?

[Jess Matana]

I'm not, but I was very curious. I was swifty curious last night about this whole Travis Kelce podcast situation. Katie, I don't know if you ever worked with Travis at any point in your career, but he is one of the nicest, sweetest football players that I've probably ever met in my sports media career. And so the fact that like I've met the person that Taylor Swift is dating is like, kind of weird to me. Yeah, this is not a brag.

[Katie Nolan]

No, I mean, it is.

[Jess Matana]

I was like lugging camera equipment around for Sports Illustrated 10 years ago, but I was curious because a. I was watching a WNBA game last night in which there was a 15 minute long review of a. Then what happened to be an ejection. Three. Three players got ejected.

[Katie Nolan]

Geez.

[Jess Matana]

And while I was listening to the review, the play by play guy for the sun was like, please stay with us. Don't turn on the Taylor Swift New Heights interview. And I was like, that's actually exactly what I'm gonna do right now. So I had like a 10 minute lull, so I turned it on and there were 1.3 million people live streaming this interview, which was very well done. Jason Kelsey was interviewing amazing. He did such a good job.

[Katie Nolan]

He did a great job.

[Jess Matana]

To be honest, I'm not plugged into all of the Zodiac Killer esque clues and Easter eggs and things that her fans are obsessed with. So I didn't really know what was going on with. With the album cover release, but I thought it was very sweet. Overall, I was intrigued by it.

[Katie Nolan]

It was certainly fascinating to see such an incredibly famous. I mean, she is one of our most famous, famous, famous people that we have. Like, she is a superstar, and it was kind of wild to see a superstar get in the mud of podcasts. It's like a sports, a football podcast. So much bigger than this. It's wild to be able to see her do that. And I'm like you. I am swifty adjacent. I have a lot of friends who are swifties. I do not. I don't judge that. I'm not. She just isn't my artist. I think that's fair and true. For there's probably artists that I'm a huge fan of that other people. Like, that's not for me. And I think, like, it's healthy to say, and I hope that doesn't incite anybody's anger, because I am also acutely aware of the loud criticism of her and sports being from a place I. That does not resonate with me. I'm not. I don't dislike this woman in that capacity. She's. I just am not. I don't know. And she happens to have more lore than probably any other artist. And I'm not up on her lore, but I find it so fast.

[Jess Matana]

I love how you're tiptoeing.

[Katie Nolan]

It's. I just don't want people to be like, she hates Taylor. But then I'm also just seeing people in sports. I know couldn't have given a shit less about this year, a year ago that now are, like, quoting her song, and you're like, well, that's pandering.

[Jess Matana]

That's.

[Katie Nolan]

I don't. That, to me, is just as bad as somebody who's saying that. It's like, you're doing this. You just want the views. So I would like us to discuss this as, like, from honest positions, where, like, I found it really nice to see. And I, to answer your question, have met Travis, but it was in such a quick. It was like one of those things they make you do in order to earn the free super bowl tickets, where it's like, come MC this event, and these three people are gonna stop by for two seconds, and then you have to shake four hands, and then you can sit in that section. So he was very nice, but I. I don't have as much experience with him as you, but I thought it was so nice.

[Jess Matana]

I wouldn't say I had that Much experience.

[Katie Nolan]

You said you were best friends.

[Jess Matana]

Starlet rode a roller coaster with him.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, that could be a metaphor. We don't know.

[Jess Matana]

Yes.

[Katie Nolan]

We don't know.

[Jess Matana]

Well, in front of the lids, one of the many lid stores. Yeah, Katie. I would say that I was.

[Katie Nolan]

There were so many.

[Jess Matana]

So there were six and a half at Mall America, where the super bowl was one of them.

[Katie Nolan]

Didn't even sell hats, I don't think.

[Jess Matana]

Years ago, it was like a half lids. Crazy. I mean, and not even visors. It's just a half store. So what sold me was they were talking about social media in this interview, and she quoted one of Travis's most famous tweets, which was where he misspelled the word squirrel in a way that you would not know. Not the way you would expect someone to misspell the world.

[Katie Nolan]

Right.

[Jess Matana]

Squirrel. Which is hard to say. And that was when I was kind of sold. I was like, wow.

[Katie Nolan]

They.

[Jess Matana]

They laugh about his dumb 2009 Twitter posts. Like, this is relatable to me.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, I like this. Hearing her talk about the Internet was particularly fascinating. I mean, listen, you do have to take everything with a grain of salt that, like, this is the friendliest friendly an interview could ever be. This is her boyfriend's podcast. It's. There's no reason to ask any sort of question or leave in anything that could possibly make her look bad. But I. I mean, it's not like it was all clipped together with a ton of edit points to the point where you're like, jesus is so fake. It.

[Jess Matana]

Right?

[Katie Nolan]

This is this woman speaking somewhat extemporaneously. And hearing her talk about even can. Even acknowledging there exists a space where she could receive a DM was so funny to me, where I was like, you shouldn't even think about looking.

[Jess Matana]

You should know about hearing her say.

[Katie Nolan]

Like, I try not to open those. I'm like, what do you mean? There's no way. You shouldn't even have the passwords to your own account. If I'm honest, it's too. You reach a point that's too big to be able to engage with the Internet like that. And I think it's really fascinating because she came up through the Internet, and one of the main selling points of her brand, from what I understand from friends of mine who are big swifties, is authenticity. And so it's very fascinating to me, a person who's obsessed with both authenticity and the Internet, to see how I was interested to see how she was able to talk about it and not seem phony. Because there's no way she can show up authentically on the Internet. Because, as I believe it was, Tina Fey famously said, authenticity is expensive.

[Jess Matana]

I also felt that Jason seemed very authentic because he argues with trolls a lot on social media, which is something I can relate to more than being Taylor Swift.

[Katie Nolan]

Right.

[Jess Matana]

So from that standpoint, I was like, I really see the appeal of these brothers on their podcast and the fact that a tight end from the University of Cincinnati is now sitting next to one of the most successful music musicians of our generation. Katie just. It still blows my mind a little bit watching them interact. I was like, this is weird. It's like when you see your teacher at the grocery store, you're like, you don't belong here.

[Katie Nolan]

Like, wait, I know you, but not from this. This kind of place.

[Jess Matana]

Yeah, it's like, teacher lives at school. Travis Kelce lives at football. Taylor Swift over there.

[Katie Nolan]

How did you get out? How are you interact? Hearing them talk about, like, her relationship with Andy Reed and, like, her dad and Andy, and you're just like this. How do they know each other? This can't be. This is not correct. Also interesting to hear the parallels between her artistry and what she does and athleticism and athletes and what they do. The way that she was like, we look, we basically, in my brain, do the same thing. We go into a stadium full of people and it's our job to entertain them for three hours. She's like, sometimes I'll be, You know, I have rehearsal, you have practice, I have the dressing room, you have the locker room. Like, it. She. Which is funny because I remember when I went to Liverpool at Anfield and they call it a dressing room. And I was like, that is so strange. This is a locker room. What do you mean? Random tidbit from my brain. Sorry. That's how it works.

[Jess Matana]

I knew. I knew, like, lift. I knew boot.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Jess Matana]

I did not know. Now I know.

[Katie Nolan]

And the pitch, obviously, you know the pitch and the kit and the match.

[Jess Matana]

Can I also say that, like, all of these things that we're talking about happened within one review in one basketball game of one play. That's how long this review was.

[Katie Nolan]

So talk to me about this. What happened in the basketball game? This was the sun, who they play the sky.

[Jess Matana]

I mean, these are two of the worst teams. Teams in the wnba. But I'm from Chicago, so I watch all of the sky games. And Angel Reese has been out for the last 15 games. They are just floundering. And it's not the player's fault. It's front office has not done well this year with, with what they have. But anyways, it was not a big thing, Katie. It was not a thing that warranted a 15 minute long review. It was like one player was boxing out another player and did it very like kind of pushed her a little bit, pulled on her and then the other player grabbed her jersey and then Ariel Atkins kind of came in and got into other players face and then they were like, what do we do? And then I turned, I turned on the podcast. No, they all got ejected.

[Katie Nolan]

Conspiracy theory. Do you think they made this into a bigger deal so people could take a quick break, check in on the podcast and then come back?

[Jess Matana]

I think if you're watching this game specifically because there were five WNBA games on whatever night this was yesterday, Wednesday night.

[Katie Nolan]

Was this not last night?

[Jess Matana]

Sure, yeah, it was last night. I don't know.

[Katie Nolan]

I don't know what day podcast it is. Podcast comes out today. We're quick, quick.

[Jess Matana]

Oh sweet.

[Katie Nolan]

We turn it right around.

[Jess Matana]

Love that. Great job team. There were five games on last night. This was the worst of the five. So I think if you were the only one at this point, I think, yeah, I think I was one of.

[Katie Nolan]

The few as, as somebody who's tuning into WNBA games, what has your experience with and or read of Dildo gate. Oh, bad. Where are you at with that?

[Jess Matana]

I was one of those people that it happened the first time and I was like, that's, that's silly. That's goofy.

[Katie Nolan]

Right?

[Jess Matana]

Because you know, I have been at a Bills game a few years ago. We've seen people throw sex toy projectiles in the past at sporting events. I kind of was like, you know, I, I could see why this is bad and it shouldn't happen again. But alas, we, we move on. That person will probably get arrested and fined and banned for life. So, you know, whatever. But then it happened again and then it happened again. And then there was some reporting done, Katie, that this was part of a marketing scheme for a cryptocurrency coin. And yes, that's the first thing I.

[Katie Nolan]

Hear when it's a mark. I go, yes, yes, a meme coin. We needed another one of these. Thank God.

[Jess Matana]

Literally like my, my soul like splintered off. Like more and more. More of me died in that moment when I read that headline than like at any other point this year. So yeah, that was horrible. And I, it just. When it's a one off prank thing, you're like, okay, that's dumb, whatever. But if it's like A concerted thing, which it seems like it is to harass WNBA players with a sex toy. I mean, that is like the definition of demeaning. It's at their workplace. Like, this is so effed up. So I hope that all the people that did it get caught and get in trouble and can't go back to games because. Because it's so, so stupid.

[Katie Nolan]

So stupid. Especially the people who.

[Jess Matana]

Part of me has died.

[Katie Nolan]

Especially the people who are trying to do it. And it doesn't reach the court because we were reading an article the other day about, like, guys that have gotten caught or that they're looking for that throw it and it hits a fan and it doesn't even make it to the catch. Those guys, those absolute losers. And lock them up forever. I mean, at least make it to the court, right? And they throw children.

[Jess Matana]

There's children in the stands and you're throwing like it's insane to me.

[Katie Nolan]

It's pathetic. It's sad, and it bums me out.

[Jess Matana]

Same.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay, so you've given up on the sky. Basically, you're still watching them, but you have no high hopes.

[Jess Matana]

I haven't given up. I mean, they're not going to make. Yeah, they're not going to make playoffs. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. They're not going to make playoffs. That's fine.

[Katie Nolan]

We'll move on.

[Jess Matana]

But, you know, I. Angel Reese is. Maybe she'll be back this season. I doubt it. But they don't need her. Just like, don't, don't, don't push it. Make her get hurt again like they did with Caitlin Clark earlier this season on the Fever.

[Katie Nolan]

Do not push it.

[Jess Matana]

Alas.

[Katie Nolan]

Just wait. We'll take you when we can take you. Do not come back in a rush. Speaking of the sun, there was a potential sale of the team in July. We talked about this here on Casuals before Steve Pagliuca struck a deal with the Mohegan Tribe to buy the Connecticut sun for 325 million. But the deal has since stalled because the WNBA commissioner, Kathy Engelbert never presented it to the league's Board of Governors, which is bad. Which now has caused the exclusivity window that the Tribe granted Pale Yuka to expire. So now former Bucks co owner Mark Lasri has matched the $325 million offer for the team. And while Steve wants to move it to Boston, Lazari wants to keep it slightly closer in Hartford, Connecticut. Yeah, this is heating up.

[Jess Matana]

It's a spicy meatball. I wanted to Actually, I didn't know you wanted to talk about this, because I saw a story yesterday about this, and there was a section of it that stood out to me. So, yes, there's competing bids right now from a guy that wants to move to Boston, a guy that wants to move, you know, down the street in Hartford. This is it from the Connecticut Insider, a story that I read yesterday. It says that the main problem is the league. And by that I also mean not just the wnba, but also the NBA, which effectively controls the smaller women's league, is enforcing its right to say where a team that's up for sale can move, and it wants a team in a larger market someplace else else. So basically, it seems like the NBA is like, Boston's too small and Hartford's too small. We want a team elsewhere. We want it to be in a larger market. And I mean, there's some smoke that Kathy Engelbert said after the last WNBA expansion announcement that, like, Houston was a city she was looking at because they're obviously a huge market and they would be next up on the expansion list. So maybe they want it to be in Houston.

[Katie Nolan]

I do.

[Jess Matana]

I don't really know, because it seems like you have two willing buyers who want to keep it nearby where we already know there's a lot of sun fans. The sun have sold out games in Boston, and obviously Uncle's Ville is not too far from Hartford. So, like, the fan base is still somewhat local. UConn is obviously in Connecticut, which is a humongous women's sports fan base. Aaliyah Edwards just got traded to the sun to play it at UConn. So, like, there's already these, like, Northeast connections. So all of this, it seemed like at first, like, oh, they just want more money to move it. They. They're just going to try to get him to pay more money to move it to Boston because he didn't want to pay the expansion fee or whatever. But now it's like, what's going on here? This is very weird.

[Katie Nolan]

That is spicy meatball. I'm still bristling and fighting the urge to interrupt you when you said Boston wouldn't be a big enough market. Since when is Boston and sports not a big enough market?

[Jess Matana]

It is. I mean, I would never say that.

[Katie Nolan]

I didn't. I don't. And I don't mean like, I'm mad at you. It may seem that way, and maybe I am a little for saying, you can be, but I just, like. Like, is that really. If somebody told me if they were like, List the best money making enterprises. I would be like a sports team in Boston. What are you talking about? It would. It's. That's. What.

[Jess Matana]

Well, have you heard these, like, debates over America's fourth city or whatever? I've seen people.

[Katie Nolan]

I bet they're going to piss me off. What are the top. What are the.

[Jess Matana]

So, yeah, the three are, I think New York, LA and Chicago. Those are like the three biggest cities.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay, so it's Boston. It has to be Boston then. I don't even think it was.

[Jess Matana]

But in terms of, like, population, Houston is huge. Right, Obviously. And sprawling. There are. I mean, there's arguments that it's San Francisco or whatever other, like, big cities. But from purely a sports sense, I think Boston really is. You cannot argue with its ginormous footprint.

[Katie Nolan]

An identity. It has like, an identity. It's like, you know, and it's not. I'm not even saying it's a good one. I'm just saying, like, you know what the Boston. You know what that is Houston. I'm like, I never really know what they're. What they. What embodies them. I can tell you about their baseball fans. I could tell you about their female baseball fans. It's boy mom central in Houston. That's all I know and can report on, but I don't.

[Jess Matana]

Houston, it's. I, I know it's like there's a lot of. You have to drive a lot there. Which is one of my least favorite things of, of any city is when you have to just drive around for hours to get somewhere, which is why I no longer live in Miami.

[Katie Nolan]

So, yeah, that was the right call. Thank you for your. For you. It also was life affirming for me. A person who's always been like, look, I just don't think I could make it in Miami. I just don't think I could. And I saw you go down there and I was like, look at Jess making it in Miami. Wow. And then you were like, and I have to go now I have to go.

[Jess Matana]

I really did. It's the old college try, right? I was like, you know what? It's not terrible. Like, there's nothing that I. Makes me, like, really, really mad. Like, because, like, every time you get really, really mad, you're like, well, it's 75 degrees in January, so, like, how mad can I be?

[Katie Nolan]

The weather is nice.

[Jess Matana]

Eventually, like, you start stacking winters and also summers, which are like, horrible, horrible. Never want to go.

[Katie Nolan]

Did you do your hair? Like, did you even bother doing your hair in the Summer, because that was my thing with. My thing with Florida in general is like, I'll go outside. And it's like everything I just spent an hour doing has been like, no.

[Jess Matana]

I didn't bother doing my hair. But also it's like a two shower a day minimum.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, my God.

[Jess Matana]

Where like, you're just constantly showering because you're sweating. Like, you walk your dog, like, across the street and you're like, sweating through your T shirt.

[Katie Nolan]

No.

[Jess Matana]

So, no, the summers are horrible anyways. After four summers, I was like, this is.

[Katie Nolan]

I can't believe it was four years.

[Jess Matana]

I'm glad I did it, but I'm also glad it is not actively happening to me anymore.

[Katie Nolan]

Miami does happen to you. It's like it is an active. Active. Speaking of college, try you're my big college sports fan. You love Notre Dame, you know, Northeast. The other thing, I have no connection to college sports. I almost. Last night, I made the argument to my fiance, to Dan, that Taylor Swift. The way I feel about Taylor Swift is the way I feel about college football. I respect people who have that die hard thing in them. I did not come up through it, so I'm too unfamiliar with it. And so therefore, I notice its flaws more often than I'm bought in on its other.

[Jess Matana]

Yes.

[Katie Nolan]

Aspects. And so you love Notre Dame. You've always loved Notre Dame. Explain the origins of your relationship to Notre Dame.

[Jess Matana]

Yeah, I grew up outside of Chicago and my parents both went to Notre Dame. My mom was there in the 70s when there were like, not that many women there. So that's crazy. And then my sister went to Notre Dame. And then I was like, I have to go to Notre Dame. So I grew up going to football games every single fall. And this was when Notre Dame was like, like, truly bad, like, existential threat on the football program for multiple seasons bad. But they also had like, some iconic games, obviously, like the Bush push game. I'm sure even though you weren't a football fan, you've, like, heard of it.

[Katie Nolan]

Yes.

[Jess Matana]

Yeah. So I want to other also say one other thing, which is like, because you're from Boston and that I respect that you don't have a college football connection like that. That is, I think, one of the most, most important things about my relationship with my boyfriend, who I've been with for a long time. He went to Boston University and they stopped playing football in, I want to say, the 80s. And so when we met, there was never any sort of, like, friction over, like, my team, his team playing each other. And I Think that's honestly the biggest reason why our relationship has stood the test of time so far.

[Katie Nolan]

In past relationships. Has that been an issue?

[Jess Matana]

Yes.

[Katie Nolan]

Yes.

[Jess Matana]

I. Yes. 100.

[Katie Nolan]

Any. That you're worth sharing just for, like, a female. One fan who is, like, needs to connect with this.

[Jess Matana]

Oh, I could give you all of them. There was one guy who I liked who was a Baltimore Ravens fan, but, like, die hard, like, wore, like, a Baltimore Ravens belt. And I am a Steelers fan.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Jess Matana]

Also from Pittsburgh. And, like, that really bothered me, like, And I couldn't get over it.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Jess Matana]

And this was also around, like, the 2010s after Baltimore had just won the Super Bowl. So I was, like, very jealous and salty about it, so just. It just didn't. That was never gonna work out.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. All right. Well, obviously, you were born into Notre Dame. It was. It's in your blood.

[Jess Matana]

It's a cult.

[Katie Nolan]

It's like, you. It's like the Bruins for me. It's like the. It's like there is no family without this. Like, this exists. Our family exists within this sphere of. And so now you have a Notre Dame podcast with a guy who we're friends with, who played for Notre Dame. How cool has that been?

[Jess Matana]

It's been awesome. I love Gojo. Gojo and I, for the last, I don't know, handful of years, we didn't go to Notre Dame at the same time. He's a little bit older than me, but his sister was in my class, and I knew her at Notre Dame. And then, like, sort of through, like, the sports media grapevine, we just kind of, like, met at some point and started becoming friends, and it just. We never even really, like, we don't have, like, a friendship origin story. I have no idea. The first time I ever met him in person. I just, like, all of a sudden was. We just were, like, texting each other. The most deranged.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. He is a fast friend. He's like a very, like.

[Jess Matana]

Yeah, right. I. I have. It's. It's all a blur, but I remember just, like, all of a sudden, it's like, oh, nice to meet you. And then like, oh, my God, I cannot believe they called a passing play on this down. They should have run the ball.

[Katie Nolan]

Blah, blah, blah.

[Jess Matana]

So we have had this very contentious text thread throughout many Notre Dame games in the past, and so we eventually were like, we should just start a podcast that kind of makes sense. And the timing worked out where we both have time, where we were able to launch it this summer, and now we're Doing it every week on Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts, YouTube, et cetera. And it's been really fun. I just love having. I love having the ability to talk about something that I like. One of the things about being on the Levitard show is that you kind of like, you know, pick what topics you might talk about throughout the show. But at the end of the day, it's not really democratic. Like, Dan sort of just decides what will be the topic of the segment or of the day. So it's just nice having my own, you know, show where I'm like, here's all of the things that I feel about our offensive line. And Mike's like, here's all of the snacks we ate when we played on the offensive line. And it's. I think it's a good. It's a good combo.

[Katie Nolan]

It's a good. It's like the former athlete wants to do the other stuff, and you're like, I would like to talk. I mean, I don't know. You might have been. To take that from you. I don't know if you were an O lineman in.

[Jess Matana]

No, I played soccer. It's not quite the same.

[Katie Nolan]

Well, it's the same word if you. If you think.

[Jess Matana]

True. It's football. We both played football, technically. Dressing rooms and whatnot.

[Katie Nolan]

The big Notre Dame story that I care about as the Dan LeBatard of this program is that you guys just started selling beer.

[Jess Matana]

Yeah, it's really exciting. So I went to a Boston college game, like, 10 years ago, and Boston College, who's, you know, another Catholic school, they were selling beer and wine, and I was like, how is Boston College in their tiny stadium selling beer and wine? And Notre Dame is not. Because Notre Dame. I don't know if you know this, Katie. They literally paint gold on their administration building, and they. They like having money. And it just feels like the kind of thing where people are like, take our money. We will buy $15 Guinnesses at your games. So they finally are doing that this season. I'm very excited. And I know it's like a lot of people have bad feelings about sports fans drinking. And I get that. I think that. That there's some. I haven't read the research myself, but there's some prevailing theories that when you serve alcohol at a game, it's actually better because people aren't pre gaming as aggressively before. And so maybe it sort of balances that out. But, yeah, drink responsibly, I guess, is the ultimate message there.

[Katie Nolan]

That does make sense to Me of like, look, if you can't drink inside, you have to be hammered walking in the door, or you're not going to achieve a buzz. All the game is going to do is wear your buzz off. And so people were getting pro, probably, I would assume. I would plan this way. I've never done drunkard going into a stadium, allegedly, just because I knew I wasn't gonna get a beer. Now, I will say I went to the Winter Classic. That was at your stadium because the Bruins played Boston.

[Jess Matana]

Yeah. And the Blackhawks. Right.

[Katie Nolan]

Yes. And the beer ran out in, like, the first. Maybe, like halfway through the first period. And we were like, what the.

[Jess Matana]

And that's because they had never done it before.

[Katie Nolan]

Right. So I hope they get a couple practice runs in before an actual game, because that was a nightmare. It was a nightmare. Everyone was like, what the fuck? We can't have a single beer? And the answer was, no, you can't.

[Jess Matana]

No.

[Katie Nolan]

I'm glad that you guys have made it into the, what, 21st century? Yeah.

[Jess Matana]

Yeah. You have to go into the student section and find the sophomore with a water bottle inside their parka filled with clear liquid that you hope is vodka, but you're not really sure.

[Katie Nolan]

Dude, it was so cold at that game that we had so many layers on. I. If I had a flask on me, I would have been too afraid to unzip to try to access it. It was so cold and no beer. It was terrible. But fine. It was a fun experience. I'm glad that I. I had a great time at your stadium.

[Jess Matana]

Yay.

[Katie Nolan]

While we're discussing our teams, specifically my team, Tom Brady, a name you're familiar.

[Jess Matana]

I've heard of him.

[Katie Nolan]

On Aug. 8, the Patriots unveiled a new statue outside of Gillette Stadium right before their preseason opener against the Washington Commanders. They absolutely smoked them. It was wild. 12ft tall.

[Jess Matana]

Crazy. They're going to be so good this season.

[Katie Nolan]

Shut up.

[Jess Matana]

Because they won the preseason.

[Katie Nolan]

Shut the up. Nobody said that.

[Jess Matana]

Sam Hartman.

[Katie Nolan]

Nobody said that. My love.

[Jess Matana]

By the way.

[Katie Nolan]

Such a hottie.

[Jess Matana]

Yes.

[Katie Nolan]

Are we allowed to say very handsome. Very handsome man?

[Jess Matana]

I think you can say that.

[Katie Nolan]

Whatever.

[Jess Matana]

It's your show.

[Katie Nolan]

We say it, and then we move past it really quickly. I don't think anyone's gonna. Don't clip it. 12ft tall and crafted from bronze, the Brady statue fulfills a pledge made by owner Robert Kraft last year when the football legend was inducted into the team's hall of Fame. A local sculptor, longtime Pats fan, crafted the statue. It rests on a granite base sourced From Verm. The basis design symbolizes the team's six super bowl victories. This is quite overwhelming.

[Jess Matana]

Listen to this.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, I'm sorry. I've got one more paragraph and then I'll be finished. It'll be your turn to talk. This is quite overwhelming to me. Brady said in his speech, as reported by espn. I feel extremely honored, deeply grateful, and if I'm being honest, kind of old. I'm also a little surprised because usually they don't build statues until you're really old, like Mike Vrabel and Teddy Bruski. That. That doesn't make any sense.

[Jess Matana]

So what was that like? Just a dig on two of his Patriots buddies.

[Katie Nolan]

As with most things that Tom Brady does these days, I don't really understand it. So did you see the statue?

[Jess Matana]

I didn't. Is it like a Ronaldo or.

[Katie Nolan]

Somebody has to. We've got to pull up a picture of the statue.

[Jess Matana]

Is it like the Dwayne Wade.

[Katie Nolan]

It's not. People are saying that they don't think it's that bad. But I've got one major note. Note.

[Jess Matana]

Okay. What's your note? His hair.

[Katie Nolan]

His head. He's got a pin head.

[Jess Matana]

His.

[Katie Nolan]

His fist is the size of his head.

[Jess Matana]

Yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

The proportions I get. He's got his pads on. I understand. That's a jersey. It does.

[Jess Matana]

It does look like his face, though.

[Katie Nolan]

It. It does. They did it. His face. The way we remember.

[Jess Matana]

Like that.

[Katie Nolan]

The way that we remember it. Maybe a face or two ago. One could say.

[Jess Matana]

Can I say, as someone whose football team was stymied by the Patriots multiple times in my youth and who has grown to truly loathe both Tom Brady and Bill Belichick purely just for sports reasons. Although I have other reasons why I could hate them as people, but just purely football reasons. The fact that he is now doing so much TV and they're trying to make me like him.

[Katie Nolan]

It's not working at all.

[Jess Matana]

Is ever going. This is not a. Okay. I've softened up to Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce because they seem like real human being. People who can talk and joke about him misspelling squirrel. No, that will never happen with Tom Brady. I'm sorry. It's not going to happen. I do not want to watch him every Sunday on Fox.

[Katie Nolan]

What would it take to get you to go?

[Jess Matana]

You would have to permanently alter my brain chemistry. You would have to give me some sort of drug that erases my. My Sports Memories Pre 2013, 2023. Like you would have to permanently erase my childhood from my brain.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Jess Matana]

There's just no way.

[Katie Nolan]

Nothing. Nothing he could do.

[Jess Matana]

Not like Tom Brady.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. Not a thing. Couldn't donate all of his money to the Notre Dame football program.

[Jess Matana]

He would never do that. He's a Michigan.

[Katie Nolan]

If he did.

[Jess Matana]

If he did, then that may be one thing. You may have found the one does first try Notre Dame win a national championship.

[Katie Nolan]

Yes.

[Jess Matana]

All of these players, then, okay, I. You found maybe the one.

[Katie Nolan]

You'd go, I don't hate him. I don't hate him. But.

[Jess Matana]

But that would never happen. So why wouldn't. It would be so strange. It would be so strange.

[Katie Nolan]

But it would finally confirm what I've always known, which is that Tom. Tom Brady listens to this podcast. You mentioned Bill Belichick. We should probably talk about the Jordan Hudson of it all because as previously mentioned, our mutual friend Charlotte Wilder has been covering this story on sports gossip show which you can listen to. How do you say it now? Is it on the Athletic? Is it. What do I say?

[Jess Matana]

Apple?

[Katie Nolan]

Just Google it. But they're with the Athletic, which is with the New York Times. And congratulations to them for that. If I haven't said that yet. She spoke with Jordan. Jordan called her up to talk to her. This was a. A recent chapter in the. Jordan Hudson, who is the girlfriend of. Yeah, it's in her saga that she's dating Bill Belichick, who is some 50 odd years her senior, I believe. They released an episode revealing that she had called and that they had a set of bizarre communications. She was going to be a guest on the show and then she sort of at points was treating them like friends and then she sort of bailed on things and it got to a point where Charlotte described it kind of as like almost an abusive relationship dynamic where she's like making herself too available and Jordan's kind of taking advantage of it. What did you make of that whole. What did you walk away from that with?

[Jess Matana]

What I walked away from this whole saga with is that it seemed like for a few weeks, North Carolina slash, perhaps Bill and Jordan themselves put a good clamp on things. Things had gotten out of control. Pablo Torre was doing multiple podcasts about Jordan Hudson and Bill Belichick and they seem like they all reached an understanding that like, let's not do this anymore. But then I guess the attention needed to be fed or whatever and she attempted to do PR again. And this just does not seem to be the strong suit of anyone involved in this relationship. And they were better off just not doing that. And so it just doesn't Seem like it really works out. None of these interviews have worked out the CBS Sunday, unless they're just for her to be talked about and then in which case she's doing a great job. But the CBS Sunday Morning and this attempted podcast interview with Charlotte and Madeline, it just doesn't seem like the best PR strategy. Also, the North Carolina football season starts in like so soon. Two weeks.

[Katie Nolan]

I know this is gonna. What do you think's gonna happen during the season? I mean, college football fans have never been shy about bringing up whatever it is that could destabilize the center of the other team. I feel like they're going to be constantly bringing this up in whatever way.

[Jess Matana]

Oh, I'm so excited, Katie. I'm so excited because a, I have no idea what kind of football team North Carolina will be this year. They have so much roster turnover from last year, which often happens when there's a first year head coach, regardless of who it is. So this is not just like a Bill Belichick thing, but they have a ton of roster turnover. I just don't know what to expect. He's hired a lot of his friends to be on the staff. There's not a ton of college football experience on the staff from what I can tell. And so yeah, could it be a disaster? Totally. But also their schedule is not that hard. Like they could have a decent season. I think their wins total right now is like seven and a half. If you maybe seven, it honestly might not even be that high. But if you look at their schedule, like they have a not very difficult ACC conference schedule this season. They play Clemson, which will be the toughest.

[Katie Nolan]

What week is that, do you know?

[Jess Matana]

I think it's like week five and I think it's at Clemson.

[Katie Nolan]

Interesting.

[Jess Matana]

I'm. I need to double check that.

[Katie Nolan]

But anyway, hostile environment.

[Jess Matana]

Yeah. So I could see them having a decent, like their non conference games are not that hard. They have a few of the easier ACC teams like Wake Forest, you know, like teams that North Carolina should just beat that should be easy for them to beat. But then it's like, what do you, how do you even judge what Bill Belichick will be as a college coach? Because he's never coached college football, but he's obviously the best NFL head coach, at least like of our time. There's no doubt that he understands the coaching of football, the managing of a football game better than probably anyone else he's going to coach against with maybe a couple exceptions. So I'm super excited for it. I'm kind of rooting for Carolina because I think it would be funnier if they're really good than if they are really bad.

[Katie Nolan]

What are the. What I agree.

[Jess Matana]

Would be great.

[Katie Nolan]

I agree with you. If they're fun and, and they have a good team, it's like, well, now we kind of get to keep talking about this. Otherwise it feels like, okay, he tried it, it stunk. Like, whatever. What is. What would be the, like, biggest perceived difference you feel like there'd be between coaching and the pros? And in colleges, I know people always talk about recruiting. And that was also very funny because I would have originally said I couldn't picture Bill Belichick talking to somebody that young. And then right before he started doing that, I guess he started dating somebody pretty young. So I was like, well, I guess that helps me picture it. What. When it comes to, like, in game situations, his lack of college experience, where would you see that showing up? Up.

[Jess Matana]

First of all, the Clemson game is at Chapel Hill.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay.

[Jess Matana]

So home game, less hobby. Who knows?

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah.

[Jess Matana]

So where it would come up would be like clock management. Like, we obviously, NFL coaches make stupid clock decisions all the time. Like, that was shout out.

[Katie Nolan]

So do I.

[Jess Matana]

Same. I'm like, call a timeout.

[Katie Nolan]

We're out. Damn it.

[Jess Matana]

Like Andy Reid, when he was. Before he became the super bowl winning head coach, that was like his biggest big critique was that, like, he just doesn't know how to manage the game and manage the clock. So that is definitely, I think, more prevalent in college football where coaches will mismanage the end of games or the end of halves. Like Mario Cristobal, right now is the current head coach that is known for just blowing end of game situations and losing games for it. So that's like the kind of thing where, like Bill Belichick, one of the things that you could admire about him, even if you hated the Patriots, as I did, was that he understood the game so well that he would find ways to manipulate the other, like manipulate the clock and manipulate the game to his advantage, even when his team maybe wasn't the best on the field that day. And that's something that I think he is still capable of doing. Now, the. Obviously, like you mentioned, the biggest difference between coaching college players and professional players is that college players aren't on a contract. So they can leave if they don't like him. They can just transfer and there's no transfer penalty anymore. But the quote unquote professionalization of college football is, is more, you know, they're. They're being paid now by the school through this like, nil revenue sharing agreement. So it's not like five years ago, if he was coaching a bunch of like, you know, they're still not paid, negotiated salaries and contracts, but truly were more unpaid five years ago than now. It's. It's a little bit of a different dynamic. Like there's a GM now and they're sort of managing roster sports spots in a different way than, you know, they would have before. So I guess it's more similar to an NFL model in that way. But it's still not really the same thing at all because like I said, like, they can just leave if they don't like him. And they're like, I have two years of eligibility left. I'm going to transfer to NC State. Like that that's not an issue right now. So those things are different in like, the personality aspects of it, of coaching that maybe he wasn't quite as good at, especially at the end of his tenure with the Patriots as the coach, GM character that maybe rubbed people the wrong way. So I'm very interested to see how it turns out because I think on one hand it could work. It could work in a football sense.

[Katie Nolan]

You could see it working. Like, you could. As the doctor Strange of the like, I'm looking at all the possible. It's like I could see the ones where it works, but there's a lot more where it doesn't.

[Jess Matana]

But then it's like, what do you define as working? Is that like they're a playoff team or is it like they're a nine win team? Is it like they make.

[Katie Nolan]

That's a good question. What would be considered success for his first season as the head coach of North Carolina, do you think?

[Jess Matana]

For his first season, I think win more than seven games is a pretty good year. Like you maybe you lose the, the tough games on your schedule, but you win all the games that you should win. You know, air quotes, should win.

[Katie Nolan]

Right.

[Jess Matana]

Like, North Carolina is obviously a basketball school. Like, they are very invested in their basketball program. They're not a traditional college football blue blood. So I don't think anyone expects him to make the playoff in his first season. And I also think that this is something where if you see like the big picture, like I could kind of see how this works, like maybe they kind of wiggle their way into the playoff at some point. You also are expecting that he sticks around, which he might not do. That is like something people have hypothesized he might leave for the NFL at any point. So I don't know.

[Katie Nolan]

But he trademarked Chapel Bill. He's gotta be there for a while.

[Jess Matana]

Yeah. What's he gonna do with his shirts that say Chapel Bill with the sleeves cut off?

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. Chapel Hill Bill's version. What is he gonna do with that? I guess we'll wait and see.

[Jess Matana]

I do respect her understanding of the copyright.

[Katie Nolan]

Yes.

[Jess Matana]

System. I wouldn't know how to do that.

[Katie Nolan]

There's something I respect and. Yes. But then there are things that she does not know how to do and claims that she does them. And it's a little bit like. Like you approach the media more. It's as if she approaches the media more authentically than Bill ever did. And Bill saw that initially and thought, like, that's good for me, but didn't consider that, like, she's not doing it in a way that's good. She's doing it too. It's too. The door is almost too open, and then she's trying to slam it closed in a way that you're like. You can't control it this way. It's not controllable in the way that she seems to think that it's. It is.

[Jess Matana]

That is the mind of it all, is that we were. We were alive. We remember Bill Belichick at his peak. We were there. And so this is so weird. He. He was not like, media darling guy. He was like, mumble Ronaldo Seattle in the microphone because he had to do an interview or he'd get fined. I think he said Seattle, too. But it's. You're probably wrong. And I. I don't want to argue with a Patriots fan ever. Because you'll win. Because I lose every time. But anyways, it's. It's very strange to see.

[Katie Nolan]

It is.

[Jess Matana]

And I still can't believe he is the head coach of the Tar Heels.

[Katie Nolan]

And in a couple weeks, we're gonna get to watch it with our own eyes.

[Jess Matana]

Yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

Other college coach relationship stories. Would you believe it? There's another one on Tuesday. South Carolina head coach Shane Beamer. Did you see this? Made it a point to share how the recently released Netflix docu series on the conference SEC football. Any given Saturday. Did you watch that? Have you watched that yet?

[Jess Matana]

So I did watch that. My boyfriend was a producer on the show.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, this is a decline. Fickle of interest. Are you led? I said I couldn't even say the word.

[Jess Matana]

No, I can talk. I can give my own opinions. Okay, good.

[Katie Nolan]

I was immediately like, oh, no. It's caused a bit of controversy in his household in Regards to his wife's baking abilities. Oh, wait, is this about the cookies? Yes.

[Jess Matana]

So I'm so happy you brought this.

[Katie Nolan]

Up in episode five of SEC Football. Any given Saturday, which you can go watch now. I'm doing your plug for you, which you can go watch now on Netflix. Ding. Shane's wife, Emily Beamer, was seen baking cookies which are regularly given out to players after every Thursday practice. Turns out she's been subjected to a number of comments on Instagram about how she isn't letting the cookies bake long enough, a topic that her husband, Shane Beamer, addressed during his press conference on Tuesday. Quote, I do have a statement to make. I think my wife is getting some undue criticism on the cookie she makes. That's in episode five. I believe she's actually had people that have reached out to her on Netflix telling her she's not cooking the cookies long enough. Much respect for the people that took the time to reach out to her to criticize her for her cookies, but the cookies are the freaking bomb. Just so you guys know, I've got my girls back. She's been making those cookies. When I was an assistant coach, she's been making those cookies for my position group that I coached. So running backs at Virginia Tech or the tight ends at Georgia or the tight ends at Oklahoma. And now what you saw in that episode was her making the cookies. She does it every Thursday for all the people in this building, to the people who reached out to her on Instagram to criticize her and tell her she's not cooking them long enough. Come up here on Thursday after practice when I put those cookies out and see how fast they're devoured and gone, because they're gone in about five minutes. Reach out to any tight end at University of Oklahoma from 2018 to 2020, or Georgia tight ends in 16 and 17, or Virginia Tech running back. If you want to ask about the cookies I got her back, I'll say that the cookies are awesome. She's cooking them the right way.

[Jess Matana]

I love this. So I was watching the show with my boyfriend and he produced a lot of the. He was a field producer and produced a lot of the scenes in the show. I don't know if he produced the cookie baking scene. I will ask him. But when I was watching the show with him, I was like, wow, those cookies are really under baked. She took them out of the oven and they were. You know when you are baking a cookie and if you like them soft, if you like them chewy, right. You want the bottom to have like a hint of brown. So you at least know that they're somewhat baked through and they'll come off the sheet. Right. They can't be like wet, right? They were. There was like the just the slightest, slightest hint, slightest hint of a toasted bottom of a cookie. Just the most as light as it could be. Like the, like as light as this dresser. The brown on this dresser behind me. They were so. It was so light and I was like, wow, those cookies are. And they were big cookies. They weren't like thin cookies. They were like, like she, you know, heaped a large mound on and so they were very thick and so. So I think it comes down to personal preference if this is the kind of cookie you like. If you like a mushy, chewy chocolate chip cookie, I'm sure they are delicious. However, I have found that I am an amateur baker myself. Those cookies break instantly when you transport them anywhere. So I'm curious if she's having an issue where she's like putting them in a bag or a box and they're just like falling apart. Because they were just the most under baked cookies that I've ever seen. I'm sure they were delicious. You can't go wrong with sugar, butter, chocolate chips and pudding flower. But I noticed it right off the bat. The other thing I want to say is like, who are these people that are watching this show? And they're like, let me go harass the head coach of South Carolina's wife on Instagram.

[Katie Nolan]

It's crazy about her cookies. That is.

[Jess Matana]

I had the opinion and I kept it to myself.

[Katie Nolan]

Normal human behavior. And then I hate the way we conflate having the opinion and sharing the opinion online without ever going. There's a massive, massive step there. That is the issue where it's like you feel entitled to tell somebody you've never met something about their. Make a value statement about them based on what you saw on a TV show.

[Jess Matana]

Exactly. And am I guessing that she do. I think that the Netflix crew was there on Thursday night when she baked the cookies. Maybe is it more likely they were there on like a Tuesday and we're like, hey, what do you do? What's a ritual you do for game weekend? And she just whipped up a bat.

[Katie Nolan]

That's coming from. That's coming. That's possible producers.

[Jess Matana]

And I don't, I don't know, I'm not a spokesperson.

[Katie Nolan]

She's saying it's.

[Jess Matana]

This is coming from. This is coming from a person who used to work as a video producer. Where we would stage TV magic all the time.

[Katie Nolan]

TV magic. Is it possible she's half baking them because it was Tuesday and she figured in order for them to be warm on Thursday, she would just pop them back in the oven, let them finish cooking, and then take them?

[Jess Matana]

Yeah, I mean, that's. I think that would be a mistake. I don't think you should twice. It's not a baked potato, Katie.

[Katie Nolan]

I don't bake. Is that obvious? Is it immediately obvious? That was the stupidest thing anyone's ever said.

[Jess Matana]

No, you could warm them on Thursday, make them seem fresh. I just think that it's. It's very funny that everyone else in the world picked up on the cookie thing. However, it's not as funny that people are just harassing Shane Beamer's wife, because in this clip, she's also talking about, like, how hard it is to be a coach's wife and how, you know, losing is terrible. That's what the whole episode with him is about. It's about, like, his kids and his relationship with his kids and how his kids used to be like, good luck, daddy, and now his kids are like, you better win, because it sucks when this team loses. It was very cute. And actually, I was not a fan of Shane Beamer before I watched the show because he has always seemed like a crybaby to me. But after I watched the episode, I was like, you know, I think he's just a really emotional guy in the good and the bad ways. Like, he. He got in a fight during the bowl game last year. Last year with Brett Bielema against Illinois, where they were, like, yelling back and forth at each other, and I was like, oh, come on. Like, this is so. You're just like, you're doing too much. But, you know, like, now I see the other side of it, and I'm like, you know, this show. This show made me kind of like him a little bit.

[Katie Nolan]

Damn good sales pitch.

[Jess Matana]

I. That wasn't even. This is me not even saying I.

[Katie Nolan]

Hadn'T known that you were dating somebody involved in the show. I'd go, wow, she really liked that show. I'm gonna watch it, but Because I know I won't be watching it. This feels.

[Jess Matana]

Don't watch it.

[Katie Nolan]

I feel forced into it by you at gunpoint.

[Jess Matana]

You're not the only person with a partner who works in Katie's.

[Katie Nolan]

And imagine if I were. It's like yesterday, I was like, oh. So she went on her boyfriend's podcast. I was like, I've done that quite a Bit. Why does everybody care so much? Obviously, just kidding. I will say, have you ever. This is delicate territory. Have you ever been given a chocolate chip cookie, homemade, as a gift that sucked and felt you had to eat it anyway? Have you ever been a recipient of a homemade chocolate chip cookie and been like, yum. And you know, every bite you're going, this sucks. This sucks. This sucks.

[Jess Matana]

I don't think anyone's ever given me a chocolate chip cookie in my life. What, do people just give you chocolate chip cookies?

[Katie Nolan]

Well, it's like, sometimes, you know, somebody will be like, bake them and give them to you with, like, a Christmas card. Or somebody will, like, show up at, I don't know, something and go like, I'm a baker and I made these cookies for you for your.

[Jess Matana]

I'm usually the one who bakes the cookies, and then everyone else eats it. And like, I would say, of all the baked goods I brought to the studio when I worked on the Lebitard show.

[Katie Nolan]

Controversial.

[Jess Matana]

Like, 25 to 40%. I was like, yeah, that's not my best work. And. But it was always a crapshoot if the people would like them or not. Like, sometimes I'd bring a cookie and I'd be like, this cookie was fine, but it wasn't anything special. And they'll be like, that was the best cookie I've ever. So you never know what other people are gonna like. And then, you know, I bring in something, I'd be like, this was like a delicious, like, tiramisu that I spent 30 hours on. And they'll be like, yeah, no one really wants to eat that. Which is.

[Katie Nolan]

I would eat that. Just so you know, for the record, I would eat that. You said baked Good goods and Levitard show. And I was like, oh, oh, oh. Because that was, I feel like one of your main controversies.

[Jess Matana]

There was a controversy involving the Levator cupcake.

[Katie Nolan]

That damn cupcake. No, but I just. I could. I could envision a world. And I'm not saying this is the case. Please don't come for me. Where. Because it's the coach's wife giving you these cookies. Like, you're going to take the cookies. You're not going to go, like, these actors actually suck. Can you tell her to bake them a little longer? Like, that would be crazy. So you just go like, yummy. And then you're like, you toss them. I've tossed, like, what do the.

[Jess Matana]

What do the Titans at Georgia really?

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, Somebody should actually do what he said and contact these tight ends. He Gave the years. He narrowed it down. So you can really find them and find out about these cookies. Because if they. I've. You know, you got to look for those dry edges. Or maybe that's pancakes. I'm thinking of where you make sure the edges are dry before you flip. Flip them. But you just. You want a toasted little. Shut the. Nobody's asking you. Okay, maybe I flip my cookies.

[Jess Matana]

Don't flip your cookies.

[Katie Nolan]

Maybe I flip my cookies. Maybe I double bake them. Maybe my cookie's a little different than yours. And that's how you either make the world's worst chocolate chip cookie or you discover a new way to do it. Penicillin was a mistake, Jessica, but it's a mistake that saved a lot of lives after that.

[Jess Matana]

That's true. What if you could under bake a cookie so much that it cures, like, botulism?

[Katie Nolan]

And then you'd go, katie, I'm so sorry. I told you not to flip those cookies. Cookies. My closed mind almost stopped you from a medical breakthrough that really would have helped people for years to come.

[Jess Matana]

Yep.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. This Venmo scandal, is this gonna blow up into something or is this nothing?

[Jess Matana]

I don't know. I think so. The quarterback at Oklahoma who just transferred there. I don't know if you've already covered.

[Katie Nolan]

We haven't. I was gonna do it, but you do it because I. The only place when I looked up this story, it was literally happening on my timeline. And when I tried to find story about it, Storman in Norman was the only, like, news website that was talking about it. So I was like, I don't know if this is real. I no longer know on the Internet if something's really big and going to happen or if it's not a big deal. So if you can explain to our listeners, because you're more plugged in than I am, I would. That would be. I could pay you 10 bucks. I'll venmo you $10.

[Jess Matana]

But make the Venmo. Make the Venmo. Like, activity. Yeah. I always have to wait and see if Pete Thammel has tweeted about it just to make sure it's not something that I have also misread from, like, ball sack sports or something like that. So, allegedly, the quarterback at Oklahoma, John Mateer, who just transferred there, had made payments to his friends on Venmo a couple years ago that said sports gambling. And then in parentheses, a football game, like USC versus UCLA or something like that, and someone found it. They went through his old Venmo Posts, I guess, whatever payments. Why is this public? I don't know. Why did he. Why did it. Why was this searchable? It shouldn't be, to answer your question. And obviously sports gambling a. No, no. If you are a NCAA athlete, there have been a number of athletes that have been punished and suspended for sports gambling in the past. Even if it's obviously not a team that you're playing on, you still are not allowed to gamble on the sport you play in. So anyway, anyways, is this a big deal? Is anything going to happen? I don't know. However, he claims it's an inside joke. I guess I can see how that would be funny. More believable than hacked, right? Don't say hacked.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, more believable than.

[Jess Matana]

Heck, no. But can I say for sure he definitely wasn't doing it? No, no one can say that for sure. So I don't know. I'm sure there will be some sort of investigation on it, but the entire thing is very stupid because. Because why can we see Venmo payments? Why is that a thing?

[Katie Nolan]

This event, if nothing else comes from it, what should come from it is like athletes or people, I guess just people. Private your venmos. Like there is no need for it to publicly show it's on the little. I believe when you put in a transaction you've got to write something. But then on the bottom, I think right corner you can set an eyeball. Yeah. Or like I pictured like a globe or something. It's like you can make it go to like nobody can see this. It's just between me and the person. And I know that would remove your ability to get off your hilarious joke that you were going to send with the payment. But in the end the headache that it will save you, you cannot. It's like immeasurable. The world should not be able to once you gain popularity, see what you've spent your money on in the past. Because who knows what's going to be allowed and not in the future? And who knows what could get you in trouble? Trouble.

[Jess Matana]

This is true. And this is. I think. I don't know if you ever find yourself trying to understand the younger generation, Katie. I think like I am of the age where I am now understanding the difference between me and 20 year olds acutely. And I guess the biggest question is that do. Does Jenzy make inside jokes on Venmo now? Is that a thing that the youths are doing? Is this something I should be aware of? Because back in my day I don't think we were using Venmo as a social media tool. But I guess we have Facebook so.

[Katie Nolan]

Perfectly full circle for me, because I was trying to tell Isabella, my adorable producer, who I love very much, the only gripe I have with you, the only time that Jess, Matana, and I, or Smatanna and I have ever rubbed up against each other. And it was when you came to my birthday and continuously pointed out how young you were in comparison to how old I was turning. And that whole day, I was like, jess, I'm gonna. You have to stop telling me how young.

[Jess Matana]

Sounds like me.

[Katie Nolan]

You just kept going, I wouldn't know. I'm just so young. I'm only in my 20s. And I was like, this bitch came to my birthday to make me feel old. You were not doing it on purpose. You were not doing it on purpose. I was being sensitive. I was aging. But to hear you now say that younger people make you acutely aware of your age.

[Jess Matana]

Welcome, Katie. First off, I would like to say that sounds like. Like a thing I would do in my 20s. And second, I am sorry. That's okay. Because I was as annoying and as big of a as you thought I was at the time. And I deserve that. I deserve that. And I'd like to. I'd like to start fresh. I will bake you cookies.

[Katie Nolan]

They better be good. If they're not good in front of your face, I'll take a bite. I'm spitting it right out into the garbage, and all of the cookies go in there. I will not play. Kids. You. I want you to be the best baker you can be. I will not feed your ego. They better be good.

[Jess Matana]

If they're not, I will get a new number. And you.

[Katie Nolan]

I was going to say, can I have your new number? Do I get to text you? Did I pass? Whatever.

[Jess Matana]

I'll Venmo you.

[Katie Nolan]

I'll Venmo you. Just. Matana, tell them where. Smatana. I have to beat this into my brain.

[Jess Matana]

It doesn't matter.

[Katie Nolan]

No, it does matter. It's your last name. It is your legacy.

[Jess Matana]

It's not. I think it's Smetna. My name means cream in Russian.

[Katie Nolan]

Wait, it does? So, yeah, that's the whitest thing I've ever heard in my life.

[Jess Matana]

I know, I know. My. My grandfather was Czech, and so his name was Matana, but the rest of my family is all Italian, and I don't. What, even know any Czech. Yeah, they're, like, super Italian.

[Katie Nolan]

What?

[Jess Matana]

So people can find me on the Echoes podcast with Michael Jr. It's Apple Spotify. Wherever you get your podcasts every week and football season starting. So we will be in your feeds every Tuesday. You can also catch me a couple times a week on the Dan LeBatard show, which is also on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, Peacock, I think. And what else? Vice, Sports. Sports gone wrong every Wednesday. It was so much fun to shoot. It's a, it's a show where they played a bunch of horrible sports gone wrong things to me and a bunch of comedians and we talked about them and laughed at them and it was a lot of fun to make.

[Katie Nolan]

That's fun. Like best weekend ever. It's like a, almost like a clip.

[Jess Matana]

It was, I was a child of that era, so it was a lot of fun. There was a, a race walker, Katie, who got accused of doping and he claimed it was cuz he went down on his pregnant wife. So that was one of the many, one of the many clips.

[Katie Nolan]

Wasn't that. Is that Michael Douglas? Who was it that said it gave them cancer because they ate so much? Oh, yes.

[Jess Matana]

Who was it? Was it him?

[Katie Nolan]

I think so. But I hope I'm not getting it.

[Jess Matana]

Wrong, but I hate when that happens. I hate it. Oh God, I hate, hate it.

[Katie Nolan]

Jess, thank you so much for being here. This was awesome.

[Jess Matana]

Thanks for having me. Even though I was a Very annoying 25.

[Katie Nolan]

Not true, not true. It was the one time. It was a one time thing. I've held onto it because I need to grow up.

[Jess Matana]

I may be old, but I need to grow up.

[Katie Nolan]

All right, everybody, thank you so much for listening to your Thursday episode of Casuals. A really fun one. Thank you to Jess for coming by. Even though it was on Zoom. And be sure to look for her on Vice, 9pm on Wednesdays, sports Gone Wrong and the Echoes, et cetera, et cetera. You can find her on social media, blah, blah, blah. I also, I forgot to say up top. We have to say congratulations to the Milwaukee brewers. They hit a 12 game win streak, which means free burgers.

[Chris]

Hell yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

First time that's happened in a while. We were talking, we're very hyped about it. My brother lives in Chicago. He was like, hey, maybe I'll go. Maybe I'll just drive to Milwaukee and get free burgers. It's not right away. The chain is called George Webb. Just to remind you it's a local channel chain and they, it's not like today. It, they're. They said they're going to announce the details of the giveaway on Thursday afternoon. So by the time you're listening to this. The details have probably been announced, but we don't have them yet. So congrats to the brewers and to brewers fans and to everybody who loves burgers. I don't think they check to make sure you're like a die hard fan in order to give you the burger. I think you just get the free burger. So congratulations to them and thank you to everybody for listening to this podcast. We love you so much. We mean it and we will see you back here next week after Isabella's first pitch.

[Chris]

So excited.

[Katie Nolan]

I'm so excited.

[Chris]

How you feeling, Isabella? Real quick, how you feeling?

[Isabella]

I am really excited. I just haven't thrown a ball yet. So once I do it, I'll feel better.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, I think it's gonna be fine. I think you're gonna be fine. And you're gonna watch it be a perfect strike. And she does the cyclone thing. I'll be like, this is unfair, but I'll be so proud. We also have to figure out what we're wearing.

[Isabella]

They said that they could give me a jersey.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, I know you, you about me. Oh, what am I gonna do?

[Isabella]

I could give you the Mets jersey that you gave me to wear.

[Chris]

Aren't you wearing the Isabella as my sports daughter? Aren't you gonna get that mocked up?

[Katie Nolan]

I gotta make it. I just got. Oh, let me see if I can get it made in a day.

[Isabella]

Let me. Maybe you just get a. A blank T shirt and then write on it with sharpie.

[Katie Nolan]

I mean, I've done it before for a segment. Also, I feel like I should mention here because we're talking about it and it just came came up. I've been getting the samples for us to try for. I want to make a casuals hoodie and.

[Isabella]

Oh, nice.

[Katie Nolan]

The sample has been found. I found the perfect. Our. Our distributor, our merch people found the perfect hoodie. So we got a hoodie coming and it's gonna be nice.

[Isabella]

Oh, does it feel nice?

[Katie Nolan]

Yes, it's like soft. I got a medium and it's like perfectly oversized. It's got no drawstrings. It's the color I wanted. It's great. So merch coming soon. I just wanted to make sure it was quality. I didn't want to make us a bad sweatshirt, but. Okay. This was supposed to be the end of the podcast where we just say goodbye, but I still don't even think I've said. If you want to reach us, you can email us Casuals with katienolan gmail.com 646-801-0043 on the voicemail Casual as a podcast on hygiene TikTok okay, that's it. We really are gonna go now. We love you. We mean it. Bye.

[Jess Matana]

Psoriatic arthritis symptoms can be unpredictable.

[Chris]

I had joint pain and I couldn't move like I used to to I needed relief.

[Katie Nolan]

I got Cosentix. It helped me move better.

[Jess Matana]

Cosentix Secukinumab is prescribed for people 2 years of age and older with active psoriatic arthritis. Don't use if you're allergic to Cosentix before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial, fungal or viral infections. Some were fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough had a vaccine or plan to or if inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen, serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-cosentyx or cosentix.com.

[Katie Nolan]

Ask your rheumatologist about Cosentix.

[Chris]

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